December 8, 2025 • 45 mins
Haley Carter, the Washington Spirit’s new President of Soccer Operations, joins Sarah to discuss her decision to leave the Orlando Pride for D.C., the league rejecting the long-term deal the Spirit agreed to with Trinity Rodman, what comes next in the team’s efforts to keep Rodman, and her take on the NWSL’s gender policy. Plus, raise it to the rafters, a Wave of fun, and the College Cup finale is here.
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Watch San Diego’s fun antics at World Sevens here, here and here
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Read Kendra Andrews’ feature on Flau’jae Johnson here
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Learn more about the mother-daughter duo competing in the FA Cup here
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where I'm honored.
The WNBA has awarded me their inaugural Pulitzer Prize, the
PWHL has created and given me its first ever Edward R.
Murrow Award, and the NWSL honored me with their maiden
Journalist Oscar. These are all very real and legitimate honors
and certainly not invented to appease the maniacal desires of
(00:20):
a narcissistic, dementia riddled overlord. It's Monday, December eighth, and
on Today Show you'll hear my conversation with the Washington
Spirits new President of Soccer Operations, Hailey Carter. We spoke
on Thursday about her decision to leave the Orlando Pride
for DC the league, rejecting the long term deal the
spirit agreed to with Trinity Rodman, and what comes next
for the team's efforts to keep trend, as well as
(00:41):
Haley's take on the NWSL's gender policy plus raise it
to the Raptors, a wave of fun, and the College
Cup finale is here. It's all coming up right after
this Welcome Back Slice. This is Happy Monday. Here's what
(01:01):
you need to know today Let's start with college soccer,
as the Women's College Cup concludes tonight, with number one
Stanford set to take on number three Florida State in
an all acc title game. Both teams reached the championship
game by recording one nil wins in their semi final
contests on Friday, with Stanford defeating Duke and Florida State
overcoming TCU in a dramatic and controversial semi TCU was
(01:26):
somehow not awarded a penalty in that game after a
Florida State defender blocked a shot with her arm. Then,
in the final seconds, TCU forward seven Castain had an
incredible one B one opportunity, but Florida State's keeper came
away with a clutch save to secure her team's spot
in tonight's championship contest. The title game is a rematch
from twenty twenty three, two years ago, Florida State defeated
(01:47):
Stanford five to one, so we know the cardinal will
be looking for a little revenge Tonight. That game gets
underway at CPKC Stadium in Kansas City at seven pm Eastern,
and you can catch it on ESPNU. You'll likely be
warmer at home than those in attendance forecast for the
game is twenty nine degrees to College Vibes. Where the
second round of the Ncaattorney is complete and the field
(02:09):
has shrunk from sixty four to sixteen teams. That includes
fifteen of the top sixteen teams making it through. That's right.
In three of the four regions, all four top seeded
teams advanced. The outlier is cal Poly, which upset number
five BYU in five sets in round one, then upset
number four seeded USC again in five sets in round two.
(02:30):
If cal Poly wants to see their Cinderella run continue,
they'll have to upset number one seed Kentucky. They meet
on Thursday. We'll have more on those third round matches
before they get underway later this week. And don't forget
to check in on your brackets in the ESPN Volleyball
Championship Challenge. I'm currently sitting in a sad tie for
fifteenth place, but it's not over till it's over. To
(02:50):
the World seven Soccer Tourney held over the weekend in
Fort Lauderdale, Florida. It was the first ever North American
edition of the seven B seven footy tournament, with the
San Diego Wave defeating Mexican pro club Tigrisfeminil three nil
in the final on Sunday afternoon. With the win, San
Diego earns a big prize two million dollars, which comes
out to about fifty five thousand dollars per player after
(03:12):
the winnings are split fifty to fifty with the club itself.
For its runner up finish, Tigrisfeminil earns a cool million dollars.
The competition featured eight teams, including The Wave and Kansas
City Current of the NWSL, along with club teams from Canada, Mexico, Brazil,
and Columbia. And even before winning it all and taking
home all that cash, it was clear San Diego was
having a lot of fun down in Florida. We'll link
(03:34):
to a few videos of the team's intros and celebrations
in the show notes. You can check them out and
pick up a few new dance moves Toops. Yukon retired
Sue Bird's number ten jersey on Sunday ahead of the
Huskies one O two thirty five win over to Paul
Byrd is just the third Husky to have her number retired,
joining Swin Cash and Rebecca Lobo. Now you might not
know this, but when Bird arrived at Yukon in nineteen
(03:56):
ninety eight, the Huskies weren't yet known as a dynasty.
At the time, the program had won just one NC
Double A title in nineteen ninety five. Well Byrd went
on to lead the program to two more national titles
and helped secure the foundation for the huskies decades long
run of success, which now is up to a total
of twelve NC DOUBLEA titles. More college hoops will flash
(04:18):
back to a pair of games from last Thursday's Big
acc SEC Challenge. First, number three South Carolina just eked
past number twenty two Louisville seventy nine to seventy seven.
Gamecocks were led by Medina Ocott, who had twenty three
points and thirteen boards in the win. Then a ninety
three seventy seven comeback victory for number five LSU over Duke.
Late in the game, Flage Johnson hit a trey to
(04:39):
score three of her eighteen points on the night, then
turned to the Duke bench to chirp at head coach
Kara Lawson, who was Johnson's coach for the twenty twenty
five FEEBO Women's America Cup. This past summer. Now, Johnson
didn't see a lot of playing time for Team USA
during the tournament. She played twenty minutes in the quarterfinals,
but just three minutes in the semis and another three
minutes in the finals. LSU coach Kim Moulkey addressed Johnson's
(04:59):
words for after the game, saying, in part, I was
happy for Flage. I was happy. You know, she didn't
have a good experience at USA Basketball with Kara this summer,
and so she's had this date circled and then later
Flage lost a lot of confidence this summer playing with
USA Basketball, and it's my job when I get her
back on campus to bring her back to where she
can help us do what we need to do at LSU.
(05:19):
End quote. For her part, Flage wrote on social media
the next day, quote, I was fired up in the moment,
but I have nothing but the utmost respect for coach
Kara Lawson, the coach I won my first gold medal under.
Don't get it twisted, She's a legend. End quote. Probably
makes sense for Flage to stay on the good side
of the woman who will be leading Team USA at
the twenty twenty eight Olympics. And while we're on the
(05:41):
topic of flage. There's a nice Kendra Andrews feature on
her over ADESPN dot com. We'll link to it in
the show notes if you want to check it out.
A couple more notable performances this weekend in college hoops.
On Saturday, Olivia Miles had a fifteen point ten rebound,
eleven assists triple double to lead TCU pasted UTEP ninety
to forty five. On Sunday, Lauren Betts led UCLA pasted
Oregon fifty nine with a twenty four point fourteen rebound outing,
(06:04):
and the nation's leading scorer, Audie Crook stayed hot, putting
up thirty points to lead Oklahoma State in a one
oh five to fifty two defeat of Northern Illinois. I
also got a shout out Northwestern's Gray Sullivan, who had
thirty seven points to keep her team minute with number
twenty three Ohio State, though the Buckeyes did get the
win seventy nine to seventy. This weekend soops also featured
a historic outing from University of North Texas standout Megan Nestor,
(06:28):
who put up thirty four points and thirty one rebounds
to lead her team to an eighty one to fifty
two victory over Texas Southern on Saturday. It's just the
third thirty thirty game in Division one history since the
nineteen eighty one eighty two season. To hockey and the
p WHL, the Seattle Torrent secured the expansion sides first
ever win on Friday, and it was a thriller. The
(06:51):
team was down one to oh late in the third
period to the visiting New York Sirens when they turned
things around after a major penalty was called on New
York with just under four minutes to play. Lex Carpenter
tied the game with one minute, twenty four seconds left
on the clock, and then twenty two seconds later, Hillary
Knight scored the game winner. But while Seattle took the w,
the team's hometown paper took back to back El's as
(07:13):
The Seattle Times not only took the story about the
wind below the fold, but also got the team's name wrong,
as the headline proclaimed quote late penalty helps Sirens secure
teams first victory end quote oof. Elsewhere in the PWHL,
we told you last week that Ottawa Charge head coach
Carla McLeod has been diagnosed with breast cancer and will
be missing some games as she undergoes treatment. While McLeod
(07:36):
was back behind her team's bench for last Thursday's three
to one away loss to the Toronto Scepters, which also
coincidentally happened to be the Scepter's annual stick It to
Cancer theme night. The game began with former Sceptors goalie
Erica Howe, a breast cancer survivor, herself, wearing mclod's Canada
jersey for a ceremonial puck drop. Mclod was then recognized
during the third period and given a rousing standing ovation
(07:58):
from the crowd. After the game, McLoud said she was
overwhelmed and grateful for all the support she's received, saying,
quote it's just been this whole, massive wave of just
love end quote more PWHL. On Friday, Vancouver Sarah Nurse
was placed on long term injury reserve retroactive to November
twenty first, after she missed three games with an upper
body injury. With Nurse out for the foreseeable future, the
(08:21):
Golden Eyes activated Mollia Schier from its reserve player list,
signing her to a standard contract. The PWHL's long term
injury policy means Nurse will miss a minimum of three weeks,
but it's not yet clear whether it should be out
for much longer than that, and of course, because it's Hoki,
we likely aren't going to get more information than the
vague upper body designation either. Nurse will also miss this
week's Rivalry Series games, with Canada set to face off
(08:43):
against the US this Wednesday and Saturday in Edmonton, Alberta.
The PWHLS offer the week to accommodate the international games,
with the regular season resuming in just over a week.
To figure skating, Alyssa Liu when yet another competition over
the weekend, claiming gold at the Grand Prix Final, the
biggest prize in figure skating other than the Olympics and
World Championships. Leo won the competition in Japan with an
(09:04):
overall score of two hundred and twenty two point four
to nine points, and she solidifies herself as a strong
podium contender ahead of the Milan Courtina Olympics, which get
under way in February. But before then, Leo still needs
to book her spot on Team USA. The official roster
will be selected after the US Championships in January, with
Leo and fellow American Amber Glenn, both expected to secure
(09:24):
their spots on the team. More Winter Sports News. Cross
country skier Jesse Diggins officially qualified for her fourth Olympics
over the weekend, securing her ticket to Italy, following back
to back podium finishes at a World Cup stop in Trondheim, Norway,
including a win in the skiathalon on Saturday. While Diggins
has won a lot in her career, that victory actually
marked her first ever in Trondheim, a notoriously tough venue.
(09:49):
All Right, after the break, it's Haley Carter stick Around
joining us now. She's a former VP of Soccer Operations
for the Orlando Pride newly named president of Soccer Ops
for the Washington Spirit. She's a former United States Marine
Corps officer who made multiple deployments and earned several military
(10:10):
awards and decorations. Former pro soccer keeper with the Houston
Dash and former coach as an assistant for the Afghanistan
women's national team and as a goalkeeper coach for the
Antigua and Barbuda women's national team. A former Houston Business
journal forty under forty, an advocate for Vets for Guns reform,
and a lifetime Girl Scouts member. It's Haley Carter. Hi Haley,
Hi Sarah.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
How are you thanks for having me on?
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Do you have to sign up to be a lifetime
Girl Scouts member or do you have to just be
in it for long enough that you achieved that status?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
A little bit of both, okay, a little bit of both.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Are there requirements for the rest of your lifetime to say?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
It's service? Right?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Service?
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Good to know. I didn't realize that there was a
lifetime option. I quit after Brownies. I started with the Brownies.
I never even advanced to the Girl Scouts.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Did you have a fun troop? Did you camp? Did
you like to outdoors things?
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I didn't even get to that. I just remember sitting
and standing in a gym and like looking in like
a fake mirror that was supposed to be like a pond, and.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Across the bridge.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
That's all I remember. In cookies.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah, that's all you go and cookies and cookies.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
That's fair yeah, fair well. I would like to think
that your service to women's sports counts toward that lifetime
membership because you've certainly done your part, as I just mentioned,
across so many different spaces in the women's sports world.
But most recently until this new gig, you helped lead
the Orlando Pride to the franchise's first ever NWSL championship
in twenty twenty four. What helped you decide I want
(11:35):
to make this move to the Spirit, and it's a
move that is kind of like the next step for me.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
I think the opportunity to come and work for Michelle.
Michelle is setting the standard in terms of investment in
women's sports, and not just women's soccer, but women's sports
and the recognition that, you know, women athletes are different.
It's not just like revolutionary concept, but Michelle is someone
who who really really walks the walk, and so the
(12:02):
opportunity to come and be a part of what she's
growing and her effort and the excitement around.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
That was who's going to say no to that?
Speaker 3 (12:13):
But also this particular position right coming in as president
of Soccer Operations is a very clear promotion. I get
the opportunity to operate and function at a bit more
of a strategic level and really start to drive a
long term vision with the Washington Spirit and the larger
(12:34):
Kaniska portfolio and find best practices and to be able
to have an influence in the women's game that that
can impact both what's happening in the NWSL, but also
what's happening in other leagues and across other continents and
within other clubs was really exciting for me, Like that
is a no brainer. And I'm at the point in
my career as well where, you know, being able to
operate at a little bit of a higher level, take
(12:56):
a step back a little bit from the day to
day and really to fil on leading leaders was something
else that made this position really appealing for me. So
to be able to come in and congratulate, you know,
Nathan on his promotion to full time permanent general manager,
to come in and work with James Hawkin and Audrey
(13:17):
and this collection of very very talented staff, you know,
to come in and also work with this highly talented
roster of athletes, and in a city that you know
is really really weaving a narrative together with the club,
and you know, DC has become this cultural like melting pot,
(13:41):
and the club has become an icon i think, within
the city and to be a part of that is
really exciting. And to be a part of, you know,
the longer term vision that Michelle has and that kem
soone on the business side has is is really making
this club a dynasty. And of course that you want
to win championships, right, That's why we exist.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
We exist to win.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
But I think success can be defined in so many
more terms when you're thinking about women's professional sports, and
you know, or are we are we rethinking how we
generate revenue? Are we thinking what the commercial streams are?
Are we rethinking what the fan experiences are?
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Like?
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Those are all pockets of defining success. So you know,
of course we want to win on the field. We
want to win internationally. We want to win domestically, right,
we want to beat Gotham and Champions Cup, right and
and you know get to the FIFA Club World Cup.
We want to win n w CELL Championships and shields.
But also we want to be setting the standard in
(14:42):
these other things too, right, So building athletes brands and
and building the team's brands and getting getting fans to
a place where you know, Washington has this really incredible
like heritage and history within the NWSL is one of
the original NWSL clubs, and you know, helping the fans
base become.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Really excited about and loyal to the club.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
You know, when you look at women's professional soccer for
a long time, like fans are fans of players and
not necessarily of clubs. So to create an atmosphere where
fans are really really excited about the club. All of
these things, you know, together are really sort of what
drove my decision.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
What are your biggest takeaways from your time in Orlando
that you think will help you in this next step?
Speaker 3 (15:28):
You know, I think the ability to reinvent yourself every season.
You know, I was even talking about this with Yael
the week of the.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Final the GM of Gotham.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Yeah, and you know, we were talking about like leadership within
your club and how difficult but how important it is
to be able to reinvent yourself every season. And every
season is a new chapter and you have a long
term strategy, but what worked last season isn't going to
work this season. What worked last season on the field
isn't going to work this season. How you lead you
(16:00):
you might have to evolve that over time. And I
think that's probably one of my biggest takeaways is that
each season brings a different set of challenges and and
you know you're going to have to adjust to that
and it's just like working with players, right, Like every
player is different, you got to meet them where they are.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Staff are the same way.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Like, in order to optimize everyone's performance, you have to
be really cognizant of that. And I think I think
the other biggest takeaway, and I said this from day
one in Orlando and I and I bring it with
me here is you have to focus on doing the
right things and doing things right and being really detail
(16:40):
oriented about that and recognizing that they're not these revolutionary concepts.
You don't change cultures and improve cultures with these big
action items and steps. It's like the day to day interactions,
every conversation you have with an athlete, every conversation you
have with a fan, every conversation we have with each
(17:02):
other as staff. That is where doing things right and
doing the right things starts to come into play.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
And it's kind of wild to me how people seem
not to understand that about culture. Often it's about gimmicks,
and it really comes down to just basic principles of
how you want to be treated and how you want
to and it's a day to day Yeah, But I
feel like your background as a player probably influences that
and as a coach, like You've been able to come
at this from every single angle, so you probably recognize
(17:33):
where there are barriers to communication, where there are different
needs and wants from the different levels, whether that's front
office down to players and everything else. So how do
you see that growth of your own career up into
the front office level influencing the decision making and how
you want to interact with the other people on the team.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Yeah, you know, every leadership experience that I've had, whether
it was as a marine, whether it was as a
pro player, whether it was working in corporate life, you know,
whether it was as a coach, Which every experience that
I've had informs my decision making and it also informs
how I interact with people. Right, So I see this
a lot about, you know, hiring former players into executive roles.
(18:13):
I mean, I even saw a comment on social media
about it today or yesterday around my announcement, And I
think something that's really important to remember is that being
a former player is not the.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Qualifier, m right.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
It's a qualifier, yes, And I have a whole bunch
of other qualifiers and a few initials that run after
my name that say that I'm capable and competent to
do the thing that I'm doing, but it informs how
I treat people, and it forms my decision making. I remember,
you know, my experiences in the NWSL are very, very
different than some of the experiences of athletes now, but
(18:47):
there are a lot of things that are very common.
And I have the ability to relate to athletes in
ways that if you haven't spent time as a player
in the NWSL, you'll struggle with. And I think that
that matters, right, It matters to be able to have
a conversation and say, listen, I know where you're coming from.
I have sat on that side of the table before,
(19:07):
but also be able to have a hard conversisation and say,
you know, perspective matters, and I'm going to give you
a little bit of my perspective and yeah, we might
just have to agree to disagree.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Well, that line of communication seems to be the thing
for me. Having been in the ownership side of the
Chicago Color Neutral Stars former Red Stars, and having been
a former athlete and being on the media side. You know,
I haven't touched everything, but I've been in enough spaces
to understand that so much of It is just why
doesn't this group communicate to this group why they're making
these decisions so that this group doesn't make assumptions about
(19:41):
why those decisions are being made, And why doesn't this group,
before they make those decisions, ask this group how it
might impact and affect them and if they have any input.
It seems pretty simple. It's like basic collaboration, right. But
I think the either power dynamics or Caste system or
disconnect has been really problematic across the history of the
(20:02):
NWSL in a lot of ways. And I wonder if
you think now looking across the league, and obviously you're
not inside each franchise to understand it, but how do
you think the league is doing now when it comes
to listening and addressing athlete wants and needs and connecting
front offices and decision makers with players so that even
if it is a decision that the players aren't going
to like, they can say, hey, let me tell you
why we did this because we don't have this money,
(20:24):
or because this supplier is always late, or because you
know what I mean, the x's and y. So that
I just talked to Brandy Chastain about this, and it's
something I experienced, you do feel a little differently once
you get to become the man and you're like, oh,
so not everything we hate these people for is their fault,
you know. Yeah, perspective members, Yeah it does.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
I think you touched upon the reason I wanted to
get back involved in the NWSL when I like joined
Orlando and why even moving into this position is so important.
And it's because what you're describing is not rocket science, right,
women ask leads. We want to know. We want to
know the why, we want to know the how. And
(21:06):
you have to recognize that if you want to work
in this space, like you have this collection of highly intelligent,
highly invested women who care about the sports, who care
about fans, who care about brand building and revenue generation.
They want to be a part of the solutions. So
why would you not engage them on things?
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Right?
Speaker 3 (21:28):
And I think that that's true, whether it's it's working
with the league in the sporting staff, or it's the
sporting staff working with the players within their clubs. We
have to be comfortable one having difficult conversations, right. You know,
from a leadership perspective, it's taking me a long time
to get here, but you know, I've been leading people
for two decades, but getting to the point where you know,
you recognize you're going to make some decisions that are
(21:49):
probably going to hurt some people that you care about,
and you have to remind yourself that you're making those
decisions because those are the decisions that are in the
best interests.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Of the most people.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
You know, you have to be comfortable with being misunderstood
and not always getting the opportunity to communicate or defend yourself. Right,
But when you can increase the collaboration between players and staff,
you can increase collaboration among players themselves, you empower them
to sort to some of the conflict and some of
the problems that they navigate. It's powerful stuff. And but
(22:24):
you're right, it's not. This is like basic leadership, basic
human interaction. You know, like we live in one giant
human system, and if we're not meeting each other on
that level and we're not thinking about the things that
impact one another on that level, then.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
What the hell are we doing?
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Right?
Speaker 1 (22:43):
You know? And it just feels like such an obvious
predictor of success, and yet people either want to take
the shortcuts or you know, go around the part where
the humanity lies. Yeah, you know, you talked about tough conversations.
We're at this major pivot point for the NWSL in
the global soccer landscape, one of the leagues that is
competing for the top talent in the world, trying to
figure out how to contend for those players with money,
(23:04):
with experience, with parody, with competitive balance, and Trinity Rodman
is one of the biggest conversation points right now. You've
said already that keeping Trend in DC is a top
priority for you, for Michelle Gang, and for the league itself,
which is so very true. So what can you tell
us right now about the team's efforts to resign her.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Yeah, so, you know, there's been a lot of collaboration obviously,
you know, with the league, and we've talked about this
like we're trying to be creative, trying to do everything
in our power to retain Trend and work with the
league to be collaborative and come up with solutions that
are that are going to enable us to keep her
in a Washington kit. She's not just important to the club,
(23:45):
She's important to the entire league. And I think that
there are quite a few athletes that we've lost. You know,
whether it's Alyssa Thompson, it's it's Naomi Germa. There are
athletes that are going overseas that we have to be
serious about thinking about that retention. And I think us
women's national team players matter so much to the growth
of the NWSL's brand, to the growth of women's soccer
(24:08):
in this country and the awareness of women's soccer. We've
got a World Cup in twenty twenty seven, We're going
to be hosting a World Cup in twenty thirty one.
You know, there's the Olympics coming up in twenty twenty eight.
The ability to showcase talent here is vital to our
success and so, you know, I'm thankful that the conversations
(24:29):
are happening.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Among owners around.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
You know, how do how do we not just retain
but how do we attract the world's best talent? And
you know, pragmatically speaking, respecting why the salary cap exists,
but also acknowledging where the market is at and strategically
thinking about as a league, when we say we want
to be the best league in the world, what does
that mean and does it mean parody or does it
(24:56):
mean we've got the most you know, top fifty players
in the league, and fans want to be entertained, and
players want to entertain them. So you know, our ability
to retain them and pay them what they're worth is
going to be increasingly important as we move forward. So again,
you know, trend is a priority. Michelle's made that abundantly clear,
(25:17):
and we have I think, you know, if you look
at the things that are happening in the news cycle
and conversations.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Like, we're doing everything that we can to keep trend
here in the league.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Yeah, I mean, I think when you have someone that
can capture the zeitgeist the way Trinity has, even above
and beyond some other very big stars, understanding what that
means to a league, and I think I have a
lot of empathy for Jessica Berman and others in the
NWSL talking about how much the salary cap has increased
in recent years already and not getting so far over
your skis because of the growth of the league that
you then put so much money in that you're not
(25:49):
making the revenue to offset. On the other hand, this
pivot point and this moment where you keep these players
and you establish this league as a place to be
will in the long run create so much more or
return on investment then penny pinching now because you're worried
about overextending and then losing in the battle of dominance
across the globe and then becoming an afterthought or a
(26:10):
second rate league. And so I think that balance is
probably going to be the toughest decision they have to make.
You mentioned the stuff in the news. The NWSLPA is
filed a grievance against the nwsl for rejecting an agreed
upon deal between Trinity and the Spirit, alleging that it
violated the spirit of a rule in the CBA. And
I'm wondering, do you know if there's a mechanism in
place that would see that grievance result in the contract
(26:32):
being upheld, or do you still have to restructure it
regardless of the outcome of this grievance filing.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
You know, I think we're all waiting to see, you know,
what happens. Right now things are between the NWSLPA and
Trinity and the NWSL And you know, while that's pending,
we're still working in the background to think about creative
resolutions that will allow us to retain talent, not just Trinity,
(26:58):
but other talented players the league that could be coming
up on free agency. And you know, even if you
look at the players that we've lost, they've not been
on free agency. They've gone for very large transfer fees.
But you know, I think we'll continue to work in
the background with the league to see what the options are,
and in the meantime, the Players Association and the NIPSL
(27:20):
will have to work through trends agreements.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
You might understand this and I don't, because you're now
in the nitty gritty of the CBA stuff. I presume
because of this trend stuff. But I saw that the
Utah Royals signed a player and labeled it as a
salary cap exempt contract. Yeah, yeah, how does that happen?
And why couldn't you just be like, okay, trends salary
cap exempt, we won't counter.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
I was asked about this by a few staff members.
So salary cap contracts exist in the new CBA. They're
very similar to what under the previous CBA was referred
to as supplemental roster. So these are athletes who ares
signed to league minimum contract salaries. There are no signing bonuses,
there are no individual performan's bonuses outside of lead bonuses
(28:02):
and the agent fees capped at ten percent. The minimum
length of a salary cap ZIMP contract is one month.
The maximum length is one year. Wow. This so this
is not a new, a new mechanism for signing players.
It's been around since that the new the new CBA,
and and it is just it. It's a guaranteed contract
and there are a couple of limitations to it.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
But I think we all just got excited when we
saw that that existed because.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Right, well, because traditionally when you see when you see
teams report on it, yeah, they'll just report a player
has been signed to a contract through the end of
twenty twenty six. Uh, you don't necessarily delineate between whether
it's a long term contract or a salary cap exempt
contract because there's really there's really no need to do that.
(28:52):
But they did do that, and so I got questions
from a few people, and I was like, well, what
is the question? And they were like, well, can't we
just sign Trend to a salary captain and contraction And
I'm like, no's not how it works. So it's interesting
to me, but it is an outline run a CBA.
So I would encourage everyone to go and read the
new CBA.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
And yeah, you mentioned the transfer fees that often take place,
and especially around Naomi Germa leaving for instance. And then
as these transfer fees continue to go up, the conversation
is often, well, we hear what the transfer fee number is,
but not the player's salary, and often the transfer fee
is more than the salary. I imagine that that's in
part because teams and leagues don't want to set new
precedents for salary. They need to know how much they
(29:34):
need to pay to get that player, but then they
don't necessarily want to say this is the new going
rate for a salary. What do you make of the
idea that a league or team could be exchanging a
number bigger than what the actual athlete sees for the
services of that athlete.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Yeah, I think outgoing, outgoing, what we're seeing more than
likely you're looking at salaries that are going to exceed
the transfer fee that's paid to the end of WSL
club incoming, right, we have to navigate the cap.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Yeah, and so that that is the natural reality of things.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
What's interesting to me about the transfer market is you know,
you're seeing how quickly things and I've been an active
participant in driving the transfer fee rate up. So I
recognize that, but I think what I'd really like to
see within the transfer fee space, and I think we're
starting to approach it, is not just that top number
(30:31):
continuing to increase. I think in this transfer window upcoming
or at least by next summer, you're going to see
over two million dollars easily. But what I'd really like
to see is is that bottom number start to increase.
When you look at the total number of the amount
of money spent on transfers and then the number of
transfers that are made in the women's game, the vast
majority of transfers are still free transfers. And what I
(30:55):
would really like to see is I'd like to see
us get to a place where that that bottom number
starts to increase, so that you know, you start talking
about athletes are playing their active participants really in like
the business of women's sports and generating revenue for clubs.
And because when you take the salary cap out of it,
in a traditional sense, you're you're normally able to take
(31:17):
that transfer fee and flip it so that now you're
converting that to player salaries on the other side of
it when you receive it. So I think the more
money we can see in transfers, but not these singular
high end transfers. But you know, it's like the eighty
twenty rule right. Right now, twenty percent of the transfers
(31:38):
are creating eighty percent of the revenue. But if you
start to shift that balance a little bit, I think
it could be really exciting for players to be able
to be active participants in that. And in many cases
they get a percentage of transfer fees. Right, So things
can get a little bit complicated in the NWSL when
you do that because of the cap. But just thinking,
this is the global game, so we've got to take
(31:59):
considerations like that in even if it's like forty fifty
thousand dollars transfer fees like those are good numbers.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Yeah, get some money going on each of those transactions. Yeah.
You know, you've coached at the international level and obviously
you need to have this bigger understanding of the global
game just to do business. But also presumably in the
future if you're working with Michelle Kang's larger group of
investments and teams that she owns as supposed to just
the spirit which I think I read in the future
that might be the case, right, Yeah, absolutely, starting with
(32:27):
the spirit and then moving. But because of that, I
think you have a maybe more well rounded view of
the global game than a lot of Americans. We're used
to salary caps and drafts. Yeah, so the NWSL got
rid of one, but we're clinging to the other. Yeah.
And Baseball MLB is the major league right now in
the US that does not have a salary cap, and
(32:49):
salaries are huge, but still a functioning league. Jessica Berman, Commissioner,
made sure to point out during her comments at NASAL
Championship that successful American leagues have salary caps. That's why
we have one. And you're competing in places and against
places that don't have them. And when the NWSL is,
with each move, aligning more with the global calendar and
(33:09):
the global game, do you think it should start thinking
about getting rid of a salary cap in order to
not be restricted in these transfers and negotiations.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Yeah. I think that it's a valid point right around
the americanisms of a draft, and we ended the draft,
we opened up you know, free agency. You know, I
think it's a valid point about the salary cap. And
again the Board of Governors is exploring options to think
about how can they compensate athletes And to your earlier point,
(33:43):
pragmatically speaking, right, if you've got a finite number of
dollars and talent, retention isn't always just about payroll, right,
It's also about working for qualified staff, having qualified coaches,
having best in class training facilities, having best in class
match facilities, you know, making sure or that from a
player care side, that they're getting the support and the
(34:03):
resources that they need. Right, So you want to make
sure that you're investing in all of those things. But
it is clear, you know, based on work that the
League has done and presented to the Board of Governors,
that we do need to be asking ourselves those questions.
And I do think that the Board is doing a
very good job of trying to think very critically about
(34:24):
how to navigate them and navigate them responsibly. I think
it's going to be very, very difficult to see the
end of an end of a salary cap, but I
do think that there's certainly interests to, you know, innovate
a little bit in terms of how how do we
retain that talent?
Speaker 2 (34:43):
What does it really mean? What does it really require.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
So I certainly don't have all of the answers, and
I'm not privy to all of it. I've seen some options,
but I think what matters is that the conversations are
being had, and I think what's happening and what's happened
in the last share with talented athletes going overseas, like
people are paying attention and leaders are paying attention. They
(35:06):
don't necessarily have the answers, yet they want to make
sure that they're making decisions responsibly and they still have
to be concerned about the sustainability of the league long term,
and I respect that.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
I respect that about the board.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
I think I've said over and over on this show,
it's very hard to be at the top of women's
sports with exponential growth right now because every deal you
make looks stale a month later, and it's hard to
protect necessarily, and so everyone's mad at you when you're
the end. But it sounded great at the beginning. But
that's part of the innovation and the forward looking that
you need to have if you're going to operate in
this space. A couple last questions for you, because I
know you're busy, lady. I wanted to ask you about
(35:41):
this because a month or so ago, when an NWSL
player penned an op ed about the league needing to
publish an official gender policy with specific requirements for participation,
I was messaging a whole lot of people about it,
and a friend told me that you should be in
my first call to talk about it on the show.
She said, you don't know, Hailey. I'm like, I don't
know how, but we've ever met, Like all the different
(36:02):
places in space, ship's passing and that's passing in the night.
So I'd love to hear your take on the leagues.
Our practice is our policy approach, how they've sort of
handled things, and whether you think there's any merit to
needing to write it down. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
So I think, first off, historically the NWSL has been
an inclusive space, and I think women's sports in particular
and women's sports leagues provide a platform for various social initiatives,
and to be honest, that's what has historically made the
NWSL great.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
It's what it's made. It's great for fans, it's been
a welcoming place.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
I think the frustrating thing for me about a month ago, right,
and not gonna give that particular athlete the airtime, But
the issue for me is that so much of it
is tied to racism. It targets very specific athletes, and
(36:58):
we don't need more.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Gatekeepers in women's sports.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
And I think Sarah Gordon is an athlete I will
give a lot of air time too, because I think
she was incredibly courageous and brave and speaking out in
the way that she did. And it should not be
lost on anyone that she is a black woman athlete
defending other black women athletes, and it is not Sarah
Gordon's job to have to come in and educate anyone
(37:28):
or defend other black women athletes. And I think for
her to come in and do that speaks very highly
of her. And you know, the risk that she was
willing to take to do that, I think should be
applauded and recognized. But I also think that as leaders
in the league, and I think that's why I've just
(37:49):
been so outspoken about it, is that we have a
responsibility to protect and advocate for those athletes as well.
And you know, I think from a policy standpoint, the
Players Association is is is working with the league, and
the league is working with other various stakeholders to ensure
that we continue to create a space where our athletes,
(38:11):
all of them, can thrive, recognizing that all of them
are eligible to compete in the end of WSL, and
recognizing that we're not creating a space that excludes people.
And I think between the transphobic and racist attacks is
disappointing and I don't I just I don't think that
(38:33):
it has any place in women's sports or the end
of SL.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
So the Players Association made T shirts for Championship weekend
that read you come for one of us, you come
for us all, which is actually I'm actually wearing it
right now. I just remember it. I put it on
this morning. Yeah, yeah, and uh, I think it did
say so much that Sarah said in her remarks for
Angel City that person doesn't speak for the league, but
(38:58):
I speak for all of us, and I say everybody
is welcome. And it is an interesting idea to attempt
to speak for all by putting an op ed in
a national paper when so few seem to agree with
the person who will not get airtime. And that is
the only reason I wonder whether a policy in black
and white is necessary, because it protects against those kind
(39:20):
of op eds. And at the same time, I'm very
curious during the current climate whether putting something in black
and white that allows a quote to be put on
a chiron on TV or an infographic to be made
that that allows bad actors to create a dialogue around
a space that has not had a problem and will
not have a problem if it continues its inclusive policies
the way that it has. And so my most gracious
(39:43):
read of our practice as our policy is we don't
need to write it down. We have been inclusive and
we will continue to be so. And by not putting
a policy in black and white, we don't offer ourselves
up to potential negative effects that we've seen across other
spaces when somebody or an administration wants to get involved
and muck around. Is that maybe too generous?
Speaker 3 (40:04):
I think that's a very no. I think that's a
very fair read. And you know, I think that arguments
can be made on both sides. But I think that's
a very fair and very gracious read. But you know,
I think we would be remiss not to consider all
(40:24):
aspects of that right and and I think bad actors
could potentially target a space historically has not has not
had this problem.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
And they usually do so when it's handed to them,
they're not they're not understanding, investigating, or learning. They wait
for it to be easily served up. And that might
be what I also, I think it's worth mentioning that
because the league has acted in an inclusive way, that
allows for a more gracious read than had it been
the opposite. Right, If it had been exclusive, I would
(40:57):
not give them a generous read on why they might
consider not actually making it an official practice.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
Well, I think it's also it's also really important that
in Orlando, right, we had athletes who navigated things quite frequently,
and we really had to set the tone and how
we were going to respond. And I will stand by
the strategy that we celebrate our athletes and we don't
(41:23):
give time to things that.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Don't deserve our time.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Agreed, Yeah, we're not going to give credibility where credibility
isn't due.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
All right, We're going to close with a three question
speed round. Do you own any capes or do you
think you'll need any capes in order to work alongside
Michelle King?
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Ah? I mean I have one of those sleeveless blazers.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Does that count like a half of li it sort
of thing like, yeah, I've got one of those.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Okay, I need to see a few more. I need
to see a side by side with Kang at some
point very soon, just to establish that one two punch.
What is the most marine thing about you?
Speaker 2 (41:57):
My tattoos?
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Lots of them.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
I've got sleeves, I know. Yeah, tattoos for sure. I
even have a krusty devil dog on my arm.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
My tattoo artists begged me for years to be able
to do it, and I told him he could do it,
but it had to be really crusty.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
He's like smoking a cigar. It's pretty serious, devil dog.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
And it's not about how you fold your clothes or
being on time all the time. It's the tats.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
It's the tats for sure. It's the tats.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
Okay. Last question, what's the secret about DC? You believe
you already know even though you just arrived.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
I have already figured out where are my friends at
the State Department work that helped me expedet my green cards.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
There we go. Very necessary, very necessary, Hayley, It was
great to finally meet you in chat. I look forward
to seeing all the magic take in DC and God's
speed and keeping turn around. I know a lot of
other teams would be maybe happy to see her get
the hell out of here, but what she brings for
the league and what she does for soccer in this
(42:55):
country is worth keeping. So I hope it works out. Yeah,
thank you, Thanks again to Haley for taking the time.
We got to take another quick break when we come back.
Mom momb mommy, I've open welcome back slices. We love
(43:18):
that you're listening, but we wanted to get in the
game every day too, So here's our good game play
of the day. Watch the College Cup championship game tonight
between Stanford and FSU. A reminder that the title game
starts at seven pm Eastern on ESPNU, and keep those
pictures of your unrivaled draft coming. I want to post
some shots of the prettiest and most chaotic that we get.
(43:38):
We always love to hear from you, so hit us
up on email good game at wondermedianetwork dot com or
leave us a voice smail at eight seven two two
oh four fifty seventy, and don't forget to subscribe, rate
and review. It's easy. Watch a mother daughter duo taking
the pitch together, rating fifty four combined years of skills review.
Thirty eight year old Hazana Parnell and her sixteen year
(44:00):
old daughter Rameya Osborne played for Hednesford Town in the
Women's FA Cup, a year long knockout tournament opened to
hundreds of eligible clubs across England's football pyramid. Mom Has,
a former national team player for England at the youth level,
was lured back into play after retirement and brought her
footy playing daughter to training, where she was added to
the roster as soon as she turned sixteen. Hednesford was
(44:23):
knocked out in the second round, but there was a
lifetime highlight earlier in FA Cup play as daughter Rameya assisted,
Mom has for a goal and there's nothing quite like
calling for the ball from your daughter or your mother.
Take a listen to a bit of an interview the
duo did for the BBC's Radio five.
Speaker 4 (44:39):
Remeya is calling for the ball, she'd be like mom,
and then you'll see them looking around like mom.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
She's saying mom.
Speaker 4 (44:46):
And then after the game they will come and ask
are you re her mom? And I'll say yeah, mom.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
That mother and daughter are playing in the FA Cup.
All I have to say for my mom and I
as we once played in a mother daughter field hockey
game and I accidentally gave her a black guy. Oops.
Now it's your turn, y'all rate and review, Thanks for listening,
See you tomorrow. Good game, Hayley, Good game, Sue Bird.
You you that styrofoam packing stuff that you use to store
Christmas decorations and it breaks into tiny little white pieces,
(45:14):
and then it sticks to your hands and your clothes,
you know, because of static electricity, and then it leaves
you looking like a walking pile of dandruff when you're
just trying to display your national lampoon Christmas village. Get
off Me, Get off Me. Good Game with Sarah Spain
is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep
Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
(45:37):
Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are alex Azie
Grace Lynch, Taylor Williamson, and Lucy Jones. Our executive producers
are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder.
Our editors are Emily Rudder. Britney Martinez and Gianna Palmer.
Production assistants from Avery LOFTUS and I'm Your Host Sarah
Spain
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where I'm honored.
The WNBA has awarded me their inaugural Pulitzer Prize, the
PWHL has created and given me its first ever Edward R.
Murrow Award, and the NWSL honored me with their maiden
Journalist Oscar. These are all very real and legitimate honors
and certainly not invented to appease the maniacal desires of
(00:20):
a narcissistic, dementia riddled overlord. It's Monday, December eighth, and
on Today Show you'll hear my conversation with the Washington
Spirits new President of Soccer Operations, Hailey Carter. We spoke
on Thursday about her decision to leave the Orlando Pride
for DC the league, rejecting the long term deal the
spirit agreed to with Trinity Rodman, and what comes next
for the team's efforts to keep trend, as well as
(00:41):
Haley's take on the NWSL's gender policy plus raise it
to the Raptors, a wave of fun, and the College
Cup finale is here. It's all coming up right after
this Welcome Back Slice. This is Happy Monday. Here's what
(01:01):
you need to know today Let's start with college soccer,
as the Women's College Cup concludes tonight, with number one
Stanford set to take on number three Florida State in
an all acc title game. Both teams reached the championship
game by recording one nil wins in their semi final
contests on Friday, with Stanford defeating Duke and Florida State
overcoming TCU in a dramatic and controversial semi TCU was
(01:26):
somehow not awarded a penalty in that game after a
Florida State defender blocked a shot with her arm. Then,
in the final seconds, TCU forward seven Castain had an
incredible one B one opportunity, but Florida State's keeper came
away with a clutch save to secure her team's spot
in tonight's championship contest. The title game is a rematch
from twenty twenty three, two years ago, Florida State defeated
(01:47):
Stanford five to one, so we know the cardinal will
be looking for a little revenge Tonight. That game gets
underway at CPKC Stadium in Kansas City at seven pm Eastern,
and you can catch it on ESPNU. You'll likely be
warmer at home than those in attendance forecast for the
game is twenty nine degrees to College Vibes. Where the
second round of the Ncaattorney is complete and the field
(02:09):
has shrunk from sixty four to sixteen teams. That includes
fifteen of the top sixteen teams making it through. That's right.
In three of the four regions, all four top seeded
teams advanced. The outlier is cal Poly, which upset number
five BYU in five sets in round one, then upset
number four seeded USC again in five sets in round two.
(02:30):
If cal Poly wants to see their Cinderella run continue,
they'll have to upset number one seed Kentucky. They meet
on Thursday. We'll have more on those third round matches
before they get underway later this week. And don't forget
to check in on your brackets in the ESPN Volleyball
Championship Challenge. I'm currently sitting in a sad tie for
fifteenth place, but it's not over till it's over. To
(02:50):
the World seven Soccer Tourney held over the weekend in
Fort Lauderdale, Florida. It was the first ever North American
edition of the seven B seven footy tournament, with the
San Diego Wave defeating Mexican pro club Tigrisfeminil three nil
in the final on Sunday afternoon. With the win, San
Diego earns a big prize two million dollars, which comes
out to about fifty five thousand dollars per player after
(03:12):
the winnings are split fifty to fifty with the club itself.
For its runner up finish, Tigrisfeminil earns a cool million dollars.
The competition featured eight teams, including The Wave and Kansas
City Current of the NWSL, along with club teams from Canada, Mexico, Brazil,
and Columbia. And even before winning it all and taking
home all that cash, it was clear San Diego was
having a lot of fun down in Florida. We'll link
(03:34):
to a few videos of the team's intros and celebrations
in the show notes. You can check them out and
pick up a few new dance moves Toops. Yukon retired
Sue Bird's number ten jersey on Sunday ahead of the
Huskies one O two thirty five win over to Paul
Byrd is just the third Husky to have her number retired,
joining Swin Cash and Rebecca Lobo. Now you might not
know this, but when Bird arrived at Yukon in nineteen
(03:56):
ninety eight, the Huskies weren't yet known as a dynasty.
At the time, the program had won just one NC
Double A title in nineteen ninety five. Well Byrd went
on to lead the program to two more national titles
and helped secure the foundation for the huskies decades long
run of success, which now is up to a total
of twelve NC DOUBLEA titles. More college hoops will flash
(04:18):
back to a pair of games from last Thursday's Big
acc SEC Challenge. First, number three South Carolina just eked
past number twenty two Louisville seventy nine to seventy seven.
Gamecocks were led by Medina Ocott, who had twenty three
points and thirteen boards in the win. Then a ninety
three seventy seven comeback victory for number five LSU over Duke.
Late in the game, Flage Johnson hit a trey to
(04:39):
score three of her eighteen points on the night, then
turned to the Duke bench to chirp at head coach
Kara Lawson, who was Johnson's coach for the twenty twenty
five FEEBO Women's America Cup. This past summer. Now, Johnson
didn't see a lot of playing time for Team USA
during the tournament. She played twenty minutes in the quarterfinals,
but just three minutes in the semis and another three
minutes in the finals. LSU coach Kim Moulkey addressed Johnson's
(04:59):
words for after the game, saying, in part, I was
happy for Flage. I was happy. You know, she didn't
have a good experience at USA Basketball with Kara this summer,
and so she's had this date circled and then later
Flage lost a lot of confidence this summer playing with
USA Basketball, and it's my job when I get her
back on campus to bring her back to where she
can help us do what we need to do at LSU.
(05:19):
End quote. For her part, Flage wrote on social media
the next day, quote, I was fired up in the moment,
but I have nothing but the utmost respect for coach
Kara Lawson, the coach I won my first gold medal under.
Don't get it twisted, She's a legend. End quote. Probably
makes sense for Flage to stay on the good side
of the woman who will be leading Team USA at
the twenty twenty eight Olympics. And while we're on the
(05:41):
topic of flage. There's a nice Kendra Andrews feature on
her over ADESPN dot com. We'll link to it in
the show notes if you want to check it out.
A couple more notable performances this weekend in college hoops.
On Saturday, Olivia Miles had a fifteen point ten rebound,
eleven assists triple double to lead TCU pasted UTEP ninety
to forty five. On Sunday, Lauren Betts led UCLA pasted
Oregon fifty nine with a twenty four point fourteen rebound outing,
(06:04):
and the nation's leading scorer, Audie Crook stayed hot, putting
up thirty points to lead Oklahoma State in a one
oh five to fifty two defeat of Northern Illinois. I
also got a shout out Northwestern's Gray Sullivan, who had
thirty seven points to keep her team minute with number
twenty three Ohio State, though the Buckeyes did get the
win seventy nine to seventy. This weekend soops also featured
a historic outing from University of North Texas standout Megan Nestor,
(06:28):
who put up thirty four points and thirty one rebounds
to lead her team to an eighty one to fifty
two victory over Texas Southern on Saturday. It's just the
third thirty thirty game in Division one history since the
nineteen eighty one eighty two season. To hockey and the
p WHL, the Seattle Torrent secured the expansion sides first
ever win on Friday, and it was a thriller. The
(06:51):
team was down one to oh late in the third
period to the visiting New York Sirens when they turned
things around after a major penalty was called on New
York with just under four minutes to play. Lex Carpenter
tied the game with one minute, twenty four seconds left
on the clock, and then twenty two seconds later, Hillary
Knight scored the game winner. But while Seattle took the w,
the team's hometown paper took back to back El's as
(07:13):
The Seattle Times not only took the story about the
wind below the fold, but also got the team's name wrong,
as the headline proclaimed quote late penalty helps Sirens secure
teams first victory end quote oof. Elsewhere in the PWHL,
we told you last week that Ottawa Charge head coach
Carla McLeod has been diagnosed with breast cancer and will
be missing some games as she undergoes treatment. While McLeod
(07:36):
was back behind her team's bench for last Thursday's three
to one away loss to the Toronto Scepters, which also
coincidentally happened to be the Scepter's annual stick It to
Cancer theme night. The game began with former Sceptors goalie
Erica Howe, a breast cancer survivor, herself, wearing mclod's Canada
jersey for a ceremonial puck drop. Mclod was then recognized
during the third period and given a rousing standing ovation
(07:58):
from the crowd. After the game, McLoud said she was
overwhelmed and grateful for all the support she's received, saying,
quote it's just been this whole, massive wave of just
love end quote more PWHL. On Friday, Vancouver Sarah Nurse
was placed on long term injury reserve retroactive to November
twenty first, after she missed three games with an upper
body injury. With Nurse out for the foreseeable future, the
(08:21):
Golden Eyes activated Mollia Schier from its reserve player list,
signing her to a standard contract. The PWHL's long term
injury policy means Nurse will miss a minimum of three weeks,
but it's not yet clear whether it should be out
for much longer than that, and of course, because it's Hoki,
we likely aren't going to get more information than the
vague upper body designation either. Nurse will also miss this
week's Rivalry Series games, with Canada set to face off
(08:43):
against the US this Wednesday and Saturday in Edmonton, Alberta.
The PWHLS offer the week to accommodate the international games,
with the regular season resuming in just over a week.
To figure skating, Alyssa Liu when yet another competition over
the weekend, claiming gold at the Grand Prix Final, the
biggest prize in figure skating other than the Olympics and
World Championships. Leo won the competition in Japan with an
(09:04):
overall score of two hundred and twenty two point four
to nine points, and she solidifies herself as a strong
podium contender ahead of the Milan Courtina Olympics, which get
under way in February. But before then, Leo still needs
to book her spot on Team USA. The official roster
will be selected after the US Championships in January, with
Leo and fellow American Amber Glenn, both expected to secure
(09:24):
their spots on the team. More Winter Sports News. Cross
country skier Jesse Diggins officially qualified for her fourth Olympics
over the weekend, securing her ticket to Italy, following back
to back podium finishes at a World Cup stop in Trondheim, Norway,
including a win in the skiathalon on Saturday. While Diggins
has won a lot in her career, that victory actually
marked her first ever in Trondheim, a notoriously tough venue.
(09:49):
All Right, after the break, it's Haley Carter stick Around
joining us now. She's a former VP of Soccer Operations
for the Orlando Pride newly named president of Soccer Ops
for the Washington Spirit. She's a former United States Marine
Corps officer who made multiple deployments and earned several military
(10:10):
awards and decorations. Former pro soccer keeper with the Houston
Dash and former coach as an assistant for the Afghanistan
women's national team and as a goalkeeper coach for the
Antigua and Barbuda women's national team. A former Houston Business
journal forty under forty, an advocate for Vets for Guns reform,
and a lifetime Girl Scouts member. It's Haley Carter. Hi Haley,
Hi Sarah.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
How are you thanks for having me on?
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Do you have to sign up to be a lifetime
Girl Scouts member or do you have to just be
in it for long enough that you achieved that status?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
A little bit of both, okay, a little bit of both.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Are there requirements for the rest of your lifetime to say?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
It's service? Right?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Service?
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Good to know. I didn't realize that there was a
lifetime option. I quit after Brownies. I started with the Brownies.
I never even advanced to the Girl Scouts.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Did you have a fun troop? Did you camp? Did
you like to outdoors things?
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I didn't even get to that. I just remember sitting
and standing in a gym and like looking in like
a fake mirror that was supposed to be like a pond, and.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Across the bridge.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
That's all I remember. In cookies.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah, that's all you go and cookies and cookies.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
That's fair yeah, fair well. I would like to think
that your service to women's sports counts toward that lifetime
membership because you've certainly done your part, as I just mentioned,
across so many different spaces in the women's sports world.
But most recently until this new gig, you helped lead
the Orlando Pride to the franchise's first ever NWSL championship
in twenty twenty four. What helped you decide I want
(11:35):
to make this move to the Spirit, and it's a
move that is kind of like the next step for me.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
I think the opportunity to come and work for Michelle.
Michelle is setting the standard in terms of investment in
women's sports, and not just women's soccer, but women's sports
and the recognition that, you know, women athletes are different.
It's not just like revolutionary concept, but Michelle is someone
who who really really walks the walk, and so the
(12:02):
opportunity to come and be a part of what she's
growing and her effort and the excitement around.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
That was who's going to say no to that?
Speaker 3 (12:13):
But also this particular position right coming in as president
of Soccer Operations is a very clear promotion. I get
the opportunity to operate and function at a bit more
of a strategic level and really start to drive a
long term vision with the Washington Spirit and the larger
(12:34):
Kaniska portfolio and find best practices and to be able
to have an influence in the women's game that that
can impact both what's happening in the NWSL, but also
what's happening in other leagues and across other continents and
within other clubs was really exciting for me, Like that
is a no brainer. And I'm at the point in
my career as well where, you know, being able to
operate at a little bit of a higher level, take
(12:56):
a step back a little bit from the day to
day and really to fil on leading leaders was something
else that made this position really appealing for me. So
to be able to come in and congratulate, you know,
Nathan on his promotion to full time permanent general manager,
to come in and work with James Hawkin and Audrey
(13:17):
and this collection of very very talented staff, you know,
to come in and also work with this highly talented
roster of athletes, and in a city that you know
is really really weaving a narrative together with the club,
and you know, DC has become this cultural like melting pot,
(13:41):
and the club has become an icon i think, within
the city and to be a part of that is
really exciting. And to be a part of, you know,
the longer term vision that Michelle has and that kem
soone on the business side has is is really making
this club a dynasty. And of course that you want
to win championships, right, That's why we exist.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
We exist to win.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
But I think success can be defined in so many
more terms when you're thinking about women's professional sports, and
you know, or are we are we rethinking how we
generate revenue? Are we thinking what the commercial streams are?
Are we rethinking what the fan experiences are?
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Like?
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Those are all pockets of defining success. So you know,
of course we want to win on the field. We
want to win internationally. We want to win domestically, right,
we want to beat Gotham and Champions Cup, right and
and you know get to the FIFA Club World Cup.
We want to win n w CELL Championships and shields.
But also we want to be setting the standard in
(14:42):
these other things too, right, So building athletes brands and
and building the team's brands and getting getting fans to
a place where you know, Washington has this really incredible
like heritage and history within the NWSL is one of
the original NWSL clubs, and you know, helping the fans
base become.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Really excited about and loyal to the club.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
You know, when you look at women's professional soccer for
a long time, like fans are fans of players and
not necessarily of clubs. So to create an atmosphere where
fans are really really excited about the club. All of
these things, you know, together are really sort of what
drove my decision.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
What are your biggest takeaways from your time in Orlando
that you think will help you in this next step?
Speaker 3 (15:28):
You know, I think the ability to reinvent yourself every season.
You know, I was even talking about this with Yael
the week of the.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Final the GM of Gotham.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Yeah, and you know, we were talking about like leadership within
your club and how difficult but how important it is
to be able to reinvent yourself every season. And every
season is a new chapter and you have a long
term strategy, but what worked last season isn't going to
work this season. What worked last season on the field
isn't going to work this season. How you lead you
(16:00):
you might have to evolve that over time. And I
think that's probably one of my biggest takeaways is that
each season brings a different set of challenges and and
you know you're going to have to adjust to that
and it's just like working with players, right, Like every
player is different, you got to meet them where they are.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Staff are the same way.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Like, in order to optimize everyone's performance, you have to
be really cognizant of that. And I think I think
the other biggest takeaway, and I said this from day
one in Orlando and I and I bring it with
me here is you have to focus on doing the
right things and doing things right and being really detail
(16:40):
oriented about that and recognizing that they're not these revolutionary concepts.
You don't change cultures and improve cultures with these big
action items and steps. It's like the day to day interactions,
every conversation you have with an athlete, every conversation you
have with a fan, every conversation we have with each
(17:02):
other as staff. That is where doing things right and
doing the right things starts to come into play.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
And it's kind of wild to me how people seem
not to understand that about culture. Often it's about gimmicks,
and it really comes down to just basic principles of
how you want to be treated and how you want
to and it's a day to day Yeah, But I
feel like your background as a player probably influences that
and as a coach, like You've been able to come
at this from every single angle, so you probably recognize
(17:33):
where there are barriers to communication, where there are different
needs and wants from the different levels, whether that's front
office down to players and everything else. So how do
you see that growth of your own career up into
the front office level influencing the decision making and how
you want to interact with the other people on the team.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Yeah, you know, every leadership experience that I've had, whether
it was as a marine, whether it was as a
pro player, whether it was working in corporate life, you know,
whether it was as a coach, Which every experience that
I've had informs my decision making and it also informs
how I interact with people. Right, So I see this
a lot about, you know, hiring former players into executive roles.
(18:13):
I mean, I even saw a comment on social media
about it today or yesterday around my announcement, And I
think something that's really important to remember is that being
a former player is not the.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Qualifier, m right.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
It's a qualifier, yes, And I have a whole bunch
of other qualifiers and a few initials that run after
my name that say that I'm capable and competent to
do the thing that I'm doing, but it informs how
I treat people, and it forms my decision making. I remember,
you know, my experiences in the NWSL are very, very
different than some of the experiences of athletes now, but
(18:47):
there are a lot of things that are very common.
And I have the ability to relate to athletes in
ways that if you haven't spent time as a player
in the NWSL, you'll struggle with. And I think that
that matters, right, It matters to be able to have
a conversation and say, listen, I know where you're coming from.
I have sat on that side of the table before,
(19:07):
but also be able to have a hard conversisation and say,
you know, perspective matters, and I'm going to give you
a little bit of my perspective and yeah, we might
just have to agree to disagree.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Well, that line of communication seems to be the thing
for me. Having been in the ownership side of the
Chicago Color Neutral Stars former Red Stars, and having been
a former athlete and being on the media side. You know,
I haven't touched everything, but I've been in enough spaces
to understand that so much of It is just why
doesn't this group communicate to this group why they're making
these decisions so that this group doesn't make assumptions about
(19:41):
why those decisions are being made, And why doesn't this group,
before they make those decisions, ask this group how it
might impact and affect them and if they have any input.
It seems pretty simple. It's like basic collaboration, right. But
I think the either power dynamics or Caste system or
disconnect has been really problematic across the history of the
(20:02):
NWSL in a lot of ways. And I wonder if
you think now looking across the league, and obviously you're
not inside each franchise to understand it, but how do
you think the league is doing now when it comes
to listening and addressing athlete wants and needs and connecting
front offices and decision makers with players so that even
if it is a decision that the players aren't going
to like, they can say, hey, let me tell you
why we did this because we don't have this money,
(20:24):
or because this supplier is always late, or because you
know what I mean, the x's and y. So that
I just talked to Brandy Chastain about this, and it's
something I experienced, you do feel a little differently once
you get to become the man and you're like, oh,
so not everything we hate these people for is their fault,
you know. Yeah, perspective members, Yeah it does.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
I think you touched upon the reason I wanted to
get back involved in the NWSL when I like joined
Orlando and why even moving into this position is so important.
And it's because what you're describing is not rocket science, right,
women ask leads. We want to know. We want to
know the why, we want to know the how. And
(21:06):
you have to recognize that if you want to work
in this space, like you have this collection of highly intelligent,
highly invested women who care about the sports, who care
about fans, who care about brand building and revenue generation.
They want to be a part of the solutions. So
why would you not engage them on things?
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Right?
Speaker 3 (21:28):
And I think that that's true, whether it's it's working
with the league in the sporting staff, or it's the
sporting staff working with the players within their clubs. We
have to be comfortable one having difficult conversations, right. You know,
from a leadership perspective, it's taking me a long time
to get here, but you know, I've been leading people
for two decades, but getting to the point where you know,
you recognize you're going to make some decisions that are
(21:49):
probably going to hurt some people that you care about,
and you have to remind yourself that you're making those
decisions because those are the decisions that are in the
best interests.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Of the most people.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
You know, you have to be comfortable with being misunderstood
and not always getting the opportunity to communicate or defend yourself. Right,
But when you can increase the collaboration between players and staff,
you can increase collaboration among players themselves, you empower them
to sort to some of the conflict and some of
the problems that they navigate. It's powerful stuff. And but
(22:24):
you're right, it's not. This is like basic leadership, basic
human interaction. You know, like we live in one giant
human system, and if we're not meeting each other on
that level and we're not thinking about the things that
impact one another on that level, then.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
What the hell are we doing?
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Right?
Speaker 1 (22:43):
You know? And it just feels like such an obvious
predictor of success, and yet people either want to take
the shortcuts or you know, go around the part where
the humanity lies. Yeah, you know, you talked about tough conversations.
We're at this major pivot point for the NWSL in
the global soccer landscape, one of the leagues that is
competing for the top talent in the world, trying to
figure out how to contend for those players with money,
(23:04):
with experience, with parody, with competitive balance, and Trinity Rodman
is one of the biggest conversation points right now. You've
said already that keeping Trend in DC is a top
priority for you, for Michelle Gang, and for the league itself,
which is so very true. So what can you tell
us right now about the team's efforts to resign her.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Yeah, so, you know, there's been a lot of collaboration obviously,
you know, with the league, and we've talked about this
like we're trying to be creative, trying to do everything
in our power to retain Trend and work with the
league to be collaborative and come up with solutions that
are that are going to enable us to keep her
in a Washington kit. She's not just important to the club,
(23:45):
She's important to the entire league. And I think that
there are quite a few athletes that we've lost. You know,
whether it's Alyssa Thompson, it's it's Naomi Germa. There are
athletes that are going overseas that we have to be
serious about thinking about that retention. And I think us
women's national team players matter so much to the growth
of the NWSL's brand, to the growth of women's soccer
(24:08):
in this country and the awareness of women's soccer. We've
got a World Cup in twenty twenty seven, We're going
to be hosting a World Cup in twenty thirty one.
You know, there's the Olympics coming up in twenty twenty eight.
The ability to showcase talent here is vital to our
success and so, you know, I'm thankful that the conversations
(24:29):
are happening.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Among owners around.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
You know, how do how do we not just retain
but how do we attract the world's best talent? And
you know, pragmatically speaking, respecting why the salary cap exists,
but also acknowledging where the market is at and strategically
thinking about as a league, when we say we want
to be the best league in the world, what does
that mean and does it mean parody or does it
(24:56):
mean we've got the most you know, top fifty players
in the league, and fans want to be entertained, and
players want to entertain them. So you know, our ability
to retain them and pay them what they're worth is
going to be increasingly important as we move forward. So again,
you know, trend is a priority. Michelle's made that abundantly clear,
(25:17):
and we have I think, you know, if you look
at the things that are happening in the news cycle
and conversations.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Like, we're doing everything that we can to keep trend
here in the league.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Yeah, I mean, I think when you have someone that
can capture the zeitgeist the way Trinity has, even above
and beyond some other very big stars, understanding what that
means to a league, and I think I have a
lot of empathy for Jessica Berman and others in the
NWSL talking about how much the salary cap has increased
in recent years already and not getting so far over
your skis because of the growth of the league that
you then put so much money in that you're not
(25:49):
making the revenue to offset. On the other hand, this
pivot point and this moment where you keep these players
and you establish this league as a place to be
will in the long run create so much more or
return on investment then penny pinching now because you're worried
about overextending and then losing in the battle of dominance
across the globe and then becoming an afterthought or a
(26:10):
second rate league. And so I think that balance is
probably going to be the toughest decision they have to make.
You mentioned the stuff in the news. The NWSLPA is
filed a grievance against the nwsl for rejecting an agreed
upon deal between Trinity and the Spirit, alleging that it
violated the spirit of a rule in the CBA. And
I'm wondering, do you know if there's a mechanism in
place that would see that grievance result in the contract
(26:32):
being upheld, or do you still have to restructure it
regardless of the outcome of this grievance filing.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
You know, I think we're all waiting to see, you know,
what happens. Right now things are between the NWSLPA and
Trinity and the NWSL And you know, while that's pending,
we're still working in the background to think about creative
resolutions that will allow us to retain talent, not just Trinity,
(26:58):
but other talented players the league that could be coming
up on free agency. And you know, even if you
look at the players that we've lost, they've not been
on free agency. They've gone for very large transfer fees.
But you know, I think we'll continue to work in
the background with the league to see what the options are,
and in the meantime, the Players Association and the NIPSL
(27:20):
will have to work through trends agreements.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
You might understand this and I don't, because you're now
in the nitty gritty of the CBA stuff. I presume
because of this trend stuff. But I saw that the
Utah Royals signed a player and labeled it as a
salary cap exempt contract. Yeah, yeah, how does that happen?
And why couldn't you just be like, okay, trends salary
cap exempt, we won't counter.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
I was asked about this by a few staff members.
So salary cap contracts exist in the new CBA. They're
very similar to what under the previous CBA was referred
to as supplemental roster. So these are athletes who ares
signed to league minimum contract salaries. There are no signing bonuses,
there are no individual performan's bonuses outside of lead bonuses
(28:02):
and the agent fees capped at ten percent. The minimum
length of a salary cap ZIMP contract is one month.
The maximum length is one year. Wow. This so this
is not a new, a new mechanism for signing players.
It's been around since that the new the new CBA,
and and it is just it. It's a guaranteed contract
and there are a couple of limitations to it.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
But I think we all just got excited when we
saw that that existed because.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Right, well, because traditionally when you see when you see
teams report on it, yeah, they'll just report a player
has been signed to a contract through the end of
twenty twenty six. Uh, you don't necessarily delineate between whether
it's a long term contract or a salary cap exempt
contract because there's really there's really no need to do that.
(28:52):
But they did do that, and so I got questions
from a few people, and I was like, well, what
is the question? And they were like, well, can't we
just sign Trend to a salary captain and contraction And
I'm like, no's not how it works. So it's interesting
to me, but it is an outline run a CBA.
So I would encourage everyone to go and read the
new CBA.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
And yeah, you mentioned the transfer fees that often take place,
and especially around Naomi Germa leaving for instance. And then
as these transfer fees continue to go up, the conversation
is often, well, we hear what the transfer fee number is,
but not the player's salary, and often the transfer fee
is more than the salary. I imagine that that's in
part because teams and leagues don't want to set new
precedents for salary. They need to know how much they
(29:34):
need to pay to get that player, but then they
don't necessarily want to say this is the new going
rate for a salary. What do you make of the
idea that a league or team could be exchanging a
number bigger than what the actual athlete sees for the
services of that athlete.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Yeah, I think outgoing, outgoing, what we're seeing more than
likely you're looking at salaries that are going to exceed
the transfer fee that's paid to the end of WSL
club incoming, right, we have to navigate the cap.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Yeah, and so that that is the natural reality of things.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
What's interesting to me about the transfer market is you know,
you're seeing how quickly things and I've been an active
participant in driving the transfer fee rate up. So I
recognize that, but I think what I'd really like to
see within the transfer fee space, and I think we're
starting to approach it, is not just that top number
(30:31):
continuing to increase. I think in this transfer window upcoming
or at least by next summer, you're going to see
over two million dollars easily. But what I'd really like
to see is is that bottom number start to increase.
When you look at the total number of the amount
of money spent on transfers and then the number of
transfers that are made in the women's game, the vast
majority of transfers are still free transfers. And what I
(30:55):
would really like to see is I'd like to see
us get to a place where that that bottom number
starts to increase, so that you know, you start talking
about athletes are playing their active participants really in like
the business of women's sports and generating revenue for clubs.
And because when you take the salary cap out of it,
in a traditional sense, you're you're normally able to take
(31:17):
that transfer fee and flip it so that now you're
converting that to player salaries on the other side of
it when you receive it. So I think the more
money we can see in transfers, but not these singular
high end transfers. But you know, it's like the eighty
twenty rule right. Right now, twenty percent of the transfers
(31:38):
are creating eighty percent of the revenue. But if you
start to shift that balance a little bit, I think
it could be really exciting for players to be able
to be active participants in that. And in many cases
they get a percentage of transfer fees. Right, So things
can get a little bit complicated in the NWSL when
you do that because of the cap. But just thinking,
this is the global game, so we've got to take
(31:59):
considerations like that in even if it's like forty fifty
thousand dollars transfer fees like those are good numbers.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Yeah, get some money going on each of those transactions. Yeah.
You know, you've coached at the international level and obviously
you need to have this bigger understanding of the global
game just to do business. But also presumably in the
future if you're working with Michelle Kang's larger group of
investments and teams that she owns as supposed to just
the spirit which I think I read in the future
that might be the case, right, Yeah, absolutely, starting with
(32:27):
the spirit and then moving. But because of that, I
think you have a maybe more well rounded view of
the global game than a lot of Americans. We're used
to salary caps and drafts. Yeah, so the NWSL got
rid of one, but we're clinging to the other. Yeah.
And Baseball MLB is the major league right now in
the US that does not have a salary cap, and
(32:49):
salaries are huge, but still a functioning league. Jessica Berman, Commissioner,
made sure to point out during her comments at NASAL
Championship that successful American leagues have salary caps. That's why
we have one. And you're competing in places and against
places that don't have them. And when the NWSL is,
with each move, aligning more with the global calendar and
(33:09):
the global game, do you think it should start thinking
about getting rid of a salary cap in order to
not be restricted in these transfers and negotiations.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Yeah. I think that it's a valid point right around
the americanisms of a draft, and we ended the draft,
we opened up you know, free agency. You know, I
think it's a valid point about the salary cap. And
again the Board of Governors is exploring options to think
about how can they compensate athletes And to your earlier point,
(33:43):
pragmatically speaking, right, if you've got a finite number of
dollars and talent, retention isn't always just about payroll, right,
It's also about working for qualified staff, having qualified coaches,
having best in class training facilities, having best in class
match facilities, you know, making sure or that from a
player care side, that they're getting the support and the
(34:03):
resources that they need. Right, So you want to make
sure that you're investing in all of those things. But
it is clear, you know, based on work that the
League has done and presented to the Board of Governors,
that we do need to be asking ourselves those questions.
And I do think that the Board is doing a
very good job of trying to think very critically about
(34:24):
how to navigate them and navigate them responsibly. I think
it's going to be very, very difficult to see the
end of an end of a salary cap, but I
do think that there's certainly interests to, you know, innovate
a little bit in terms of how how do we
retain that talent?
Speaker 2 (34:43):
What does it really mean? What does it really require.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
So I certainly don't have all of the answers, and
I'm not privy to all of it. I've seen some options,
but I think what matters is that the conversations are
being had, and I think what's happening and what's happened
in the last share with talented athletes going overseas, like
people are paying attention and leaders are paying attention. They
(35:06):
don't necessarily have the answers, yet they want to make
sure that they're making decisions responsibly and they still have
to be concerned about the sustainability of the league long term,
and I respect that.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
I respect that about the board.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
I think I've said over and over on this show,
it's very hard to be at the top of women's
sports with exponential growth right now because every deal you
make looks stale a month later, and it's hard to
protect necessarily, and so everyone's mad at you when you're
the end. But it sounded great at the beginning. But
that's part of the innovation and the forward looking that
you need to have if you're going to operate in
this space. A couple last questions for you, because I
know you're busy, lady. I wanted to ask you about
(35:41):
this because a month or so ago, when an NWSL
player penned an op ed about the league needing to
publish an official gender policy with specific requirements for participation,
I was messaging a whole lot of people about it,
and a friend told me that you should be in
my first call to talk about it on the show.
She said, you don't know, Hailey. I'm like, I don't
know how, but we've ever met, Like all the different
(36:02):
places in space, ship's passing and that's passing in the night.
So I'd love to hear your take on the leagues.
Our practice is our policy approach, how they've sort of
handled things, and whether you think there's any merit to
needing to write it down. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
So I think, first off, historically the NWSL has been
an inclusive space, and I think women's sports in particular
and women's sports leagues provide a platform for various social initiatives,
and to be honest, that's what has historically made the
NWSL great.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
It's what it's made. It's great for fans, it's been
a welcoming place.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
I think the frustrating thing for me about a month ago, right,
and not gonna give that particular athlete the airtime, But
the issue for me is that so much of it
is tied to racism. It targets very specific athletes, and
(36:58):
we don't need more.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Gatekeepers in women's sports.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
And I think Sarah Gordon is an athlete I will
give a lot of air time too, because I think
she was incredibly courageous and brave and speaking out in
the way that she did. And it should not be
lost on anyone that she is a black woman athlete
defending other black women athletes, and it is not Sarah
Gordon's job to have to come in and educate anyone
(37:28):
or defend other black women athletes. And I think for
her to come in and do that speaks very highly
of her. And you know, the risk that she was
willing to take to do that, I think should be
applauded and recognized. But I also think that as leaders
in the league, and I think that's why I've just
(37:49):
been so outspoken about it, is that we have a
responsibility to protect and advocate for those athletes as well.
And you know, I think from a policy standpoint, the
Players Association is is is working with the league, and
the league is working with other various stakeholders to ensure
that we continue to create a space where our athletes,
(38:11):
all of them, can thrive, recognizing that all of them
are eligible to compete in the end of WSL, and
recognizing that we're not creating a space that excludes people.
And I think between the transphobic and racist attacks is
disappointing and I don't I just I don't think that
(38:33):
it has any place in women's sports or the end
of SL.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
So the Players Association made T shirts for Championship weekend
that read you come for one of us, you come
for us all, which is actually I'm actually wearing it
right now. I just remember it. I put it on
this morning. Yeah, yeah, and uh, I think it did
say so much that Sarah said in her remarks for
Angel City that person doesn't speak for the league, but
(38:58):
I speak for all of us, and I say everybody
is welcome. And it is an interesting idea to attempt
to speak for all by putting an op ed in
a national paper when so few seem to agree with
the person who will not get airtime. And that is
the only reason I wonder whether a policy in black
and white is necessary, because it protects against those kind
(39:20):
of op eds. And at the same time, I'm very
curious during the current climate whether putting something in black
and white that allows a quote to be put on
a chiron on TV or an infographic to be made
that that allows bad actors to create a dialogue around
a space that has not had a problem and will
not have a problem if it continues its inclusive policies
the way that it has. And so my most gracious
(39:43):
read of our practice as our policy is we don't
need to write it down. We have been inclusive and
we will continue to be so. And by not putting
a policy in black and white, we don't offer ourselves
up to potential negative effects that we've seen across other
spaces when somebody or an administration wants to get involved
and muck around. Is that maybe too generous?
Speaker 3 (40:04):
I think that's a very no. I think that's a
very fair read. And you know, I think that arguments
can be made on both sides. But I think that's
a very fair and very gracious read. But you know,
I think we would be remiss not to consider all
(40:24):
aspects of that right and and I think bad actors
could potentially target a space historically has not has not
had this problem.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
And they usually do so when it's handed to them,
they're not they're not understanding, investigating, or learning. They wait
for it to be easily served up. And that might
be what I also, I think it's worth mentioning that
because the league has acted in an inclusive way, that
allows for a more gracious read than had it been
the opposite. Right, If it had been exclusive, I would
(40:57):
not give them a generous read on why they might
consider not actually making it an official practice.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
Well, I think it's also it's also really important that
in Orlando, right, we had athletes who navigated things quite frequently,
and we really had to set the tone and how
we were going to respond. And I will stand by
the strategy that we celebrate our athletes and we don't
(41:23):
give time to things that.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Don't deserve our time.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Agreed, Yeah, we're not going to give credibility where credibility
isn't due.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
All right, We're going to close with a three question
speed round. Do you own any capes or do you
think you'll need any capes in order to work alongside
Michelle King?
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Ah? I mean I have one of those sleeveless blazers.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Does that count like a half of li it sort
of thing like, yeah, I've got one of those.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Okay, I need to see a few more. I need
to see a side by side with Kang at some
point very soon, just to establish that one two punch.
What is the most marine thing about you?
Speaker 2 (41:57):
My tattoos?
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Lots of them.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
I've got sleeves, I know. Yeah, tattoos for sure. I
even have a krusty devil dog on my arm.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
My tattoo artists begged me for years to be able
to do it, and I told him he could do it,
but it had to be really crusty.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
He's like smoking a cigar. It's pretty serious, devil dog.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
And it's not about how you fold your clothes or
being on time all the time. It's the tats.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
It's the tats for sure. It's the tats.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
Okay. Last question, what's the secret about DC? You believe
you already know even though you just arrived.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
I have already figured out where are my friends at
the State Department work that helped me expedet my green cards.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
There we go. Very necessary, very necessary, Hayley, It was
great to finally meet you in chat. I look forward
to seeing all the magic take in DC and God's
speed and keeping turn around. I know a lot of
other teams would be maybe happy to see her get
the hell out of here, but what she brings for
the league and what she does for soccer in this
(42:55):
country is worth keeping. So I hope it works out. Yeah,
thank you, Thanks again to Haley for taking the time.
We got to take another quick break when we come back.
Mom momb mommy, I've open welcome back slices. We love
(43:18):
that you're listening, but we wanted to get in the
game every day too, So here's our good game play
of the day. Watch the College Cup championship game tonight
between Stanford and FSU. A reminder that the title game
starts at seven pm Eastern on ESPNU, and keep those
pictures of your unrivaled draft coming. I want to post
some shots of the prettiest and most chaotic that we get.
(43:38):
We always love to hear from you, so hit us
up on email good game at wondermedianetwork dot com or
leave us a voice smail at eight seven two two
oh four fifty seventy, and don't forget to subscribe, rate
and review. It's easy. Watch a mother daughter duo taking
the pitch together, rating fifty four combined years of skills review.
Thirty eight year old Hazana Parnell and her sixteen year
(44:00):
old daughter Rameya Osborne played for Hednesford Town in the
Women's FA Cup, a year long knockout tournament opened to
hundreds of eligible clubs across England's football pyramid. Mom Has,
a former national team player for England at the youth level,
was lured back into play after retirement and brought her
footy playing daughter to training, where she was added to
the roster as soon as she turned sixteen. Hednesford was
(44:23):
knocked out in the second round, but there was a
lifetime highlight earlier in FA Cup play as daughter Rameya assisted,
Mom has for a goal and there's nothing quite like
calling for the ball from your daughter or your mother.
Take a listen to a bit of an interview the
duo did for the BBC's Radio five.
Speaker 4 (44:39):
Remeya is calling for the ball, she'd be like mom,
and then you'll see them looking around like mom.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
She's saying mom.
Speaker 4 (44:46):
And then after the game they will come and ask
are you re her mom? And I'll say yeah, mom.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
That mother and daughter are playing in the FA Cup.
All I have to say for my mom and I
as we once played in a mother daughter field hockey
game and I accidentally gave her a black guy. Oops.
Now it's your turn, y'all rate and review, Thanks for listening,
See you tomorrow. Good game, Hayley, Good game, Sue Bird.
You you that styrofoam packing stuff that you use to store
Christmas decorations and it breaks into tiny little white pieces,
(45:14):
and then it sticks to your hands and your clothes,
you know, because of static electricity, and then it leaves
you looking like a walking pile of dandruff when you're
just trying to display your national lampoon Christmas village. Get
off Me, Get off Me. Good Game with Sarah Spain
is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep
Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
(45:37):
Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are alex Azie
Grace Lynch, Taylor Williamson, and Lucy Jones. Our executive producers
are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder.
Our editors are Emily Rudder. Britney Martinez and Gianna Palmer.
Production assistants from Avery LOFTUS and I'm Your Host Sarah
Spain
Host
Sarah Spain
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