September 22, 2025 • 42 mins
Round21 CEO Jasmine Maietta joins Sarah to discuss leaving the safety of big corporations behind to start her own business, the evolving landscape of independent apparel brands in the women’s sports space, and the good advice she’s glad she didn’t take. Plus, the t-shirts we can blessedly leave behind.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we take
our pumpkins, spice in candle and pie form only. Thank
you very much. It's Monday, September twenty second, and on
today's show, we'll be skipping the need to know and
getting straight to my conversation with Round twenty one CEO
Jasmine Maeta. I caught up with her last week to
talk about leaving the safety of big corporations behind to
start her own business, the evolving landscape of independent brands
(00:23):
in the women's sports space, and benefiting from advice she
didn't take. If you've ever wondered about the behind the
scenes process that leads to your favorite merch or if
you need a nudge to get that passion project off
the ground, this conversation's for you. As for the start
of the WNBA semi Finals and the rest of the
weekend in sports, don't you worry. We'll be back tomorrow
with a full breakdown of all the goings on. Stick
(00:46):
around when we come back. A fantastic conversation with Jasmine
joining us today. She's the CEO of Round twenty one,
a lifestyle brand that partners with artists to reimagine sports
products as wearable and collectible art, and works to expand
the cultural impact of teams, leagues, and players through products
(01:07):
and experiences beyond the game. Formerly an execut spots including Peloton,
where she was a global brand VP and under Armour,
where she was at a marketing plus Hasbro and Reebok,
she was a college hooper at Boden and earned her
Masters in economics while also coaching at Trinity College, Hartford.
She's been known to wear a helmet to watch her
beloved New England Patriots play, and she needs to drop
the deets on the leather pants she wore a WNBA
(01:28):
All Star. It's Jasmine my ed.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Leather pants as part of my intro. That's a first.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
I mean those were so fire though. Can you tell
us where you got them? Because you paired them with
a sick round twenty one top.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
At that top was what we call courk couture by
any yes, exactly. I went to Neeman's and said fit me,
and they threw on leather pants. I was not expecting that.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Okay, well, if you find the label, shoot me a
DM because I want to try those suckers on before
we get to around twenty one. I want to start
with your sports bona fe des because there are pretty
legit star point guard in high school back in Oklahoma,
college ball at Boden, and you even spent some time
in Spain playing pro. So tell us a little bit
about your pro experience in Madrid. What was that like.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Well, that was back in the nineties, so it was
a different era for sure, but it was great. I mean,
to go and play overseas in a European league that
really equally appreciates the female and the male game at
the time was a real dream. But I always knew
that sport was a jumping off point for me. It
wasn't something in my family that was a professional endeavor.
(02:36):
So it was great to learn a new language and
go over there. But after a year, I was ready
for what was next. Still couldn't retire from the game,
but knew I wanted to come home.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
So yeah, you went on to coach. You coached at
the high school level and at Trinity College, Hartford. While
you're studying there, you also got certified and worked as
a strength and conditioning coach. So at that time was
a lifetime of being a coach.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Kind of your plan one hundred percent my plan. I
felt like it was a way to stay close to
the game, and I really didn't have any confidence doing
anything else. I wanted to play as far as I could,
and then I wanted to coach as far as I could.
And this idea of strength and conditioning was a new
part of the coaching staff, and I always liked doing
things a little bit counterculture, so I wanted to see
(03:16):
if x's and o's versus strength and conditioning were the
path to take. So I did both for a while
and really ended up taking the strength and conditioning path
to be able to train athletes of all different sports
and to continue to give me a sense of i'd
say challenge as I matured in my career.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
So you studied anthropology in school, and also you mentioned
that sports wasn't necessarily organic to your family. Your parents
were immigrants from India. I've spoken to so many first
gens and they all have the same story of doctor, lawyer, accountant.
Did you have the same expectations and when you said
(03:52):
all right, coaching, what was the response for mom and dad?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Yeah? I think they knew basketball was my identity even
from a very young age, so they didn't successfully change
that which there were i'd say natural encouragement moments like
how much can you go and play? You need to
stay true to your studies. That's kind of the way
that parents from India talk about school. And when I
went on to then play in Spain, I think they
(04:17):
recognized that this was actually a real important piece of
my identity that I wasn't going to easily change. But
when I came back, there was encouragement to try medical school.
There was encouragement by way of like, we'll pay for
you to go to medical school. I even sat, I
think for the l sat and never really you know,
took it seriously. But it wasn't It just wasn't natural
(04:41):
for me to leave the game. And I really do
think it was from a position of insecurity. But I
knew that if I could be the best at what
I could do, even if it was coaching, that I
would get a lot of fulfillment out of it. I
very famously in high school said, even if I become
a janitor, I'm going to be the best janitor. I'm
going to make brownies for the kids when they get
ready for championships. It was just always something that I
(05:02):
felt like that was what I had learned from my
parents was no matter the job, try to be the
best at it, and that I think they appreciated and
definitely saw that I was going to, you know, throw
the kitchen sink at whatever I did, and coaching was
going to be it.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
But it wasn't because you end up pivoting into marketing.
So how did you decide to make that switch? And
then what did you learn from your time at places
like Reebok and under Armour about the sports apparel brand space.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah, so as a coach, I was a yeller like
I really was a yeller like Veins, and I would
come home just exhausted, and I felt like, in some
cases I felt like I wanted it more than the
players in a way, because I was coaching at the
Division III level and you know, they are there for
their studies. And so it was through the lens of
recruiting that I felt this is marketing. I'm expressing the
(05:52):
school's value to the mom and the dad. Differently, I'm
talking to the kid about the value. Differently. That's brand positioning.
Trying to make sure that the school was considered better
or at least a competitive choice relative to another school.
That's marketing, and so having recognized that, I felt like
they stay eighteen to twenty one. I kept getting older.
I'm a yeller. I'm tired, like there's got to be
(06:14):
a way to continue to grow in my career versus
just staying in kind of x's and o's. And so
I applied at Rebok. I applied famously for me three times,
and it was in a very short time. So it
kept feeling like they were bringing me in. And the
last time they said, we feel like we want somebody
like you, but you've never had your twenty six, you've
never worked in corporate. We just don't know. And finally somebody,
(06:38):
Marcus Wilson, took a chance on me and gave me
a position, and I stayed in kind of corporate global
roles after that for almost twenty years.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah, twenty years working for as I mentioned, Peloton under
Armor hasbro Rebock. You're learning the space and many different
assets along the way, and then you decide I want
to branch out on my own. Months ago, you just
celebrated the five year anniversary of Round twenty one. So
tell us about starting the brand and why you wanted
to go out on your own instead of continuing to
(07:08):
have the safety of working at a big time brand.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Safety is true. Actually, that is something that you get
with that, and it's a great experience in your career
to work for a well established, mature corporate entity. When
I was at under Armour is where I recognized that
there was an alternative available that at least that I
saw that I wanted to see in sports, which was
(07:30):
at the time I was positioning it more as like
a brand for the people versus you know, just the
IP owners, the teams, the leagues. But I saw every
single season I would go and show kids shirts and shoes,
they cared more about their personal brand than the brand
that they were putting on. And I started to understand,
and I think this is the anthro legacy from my
(07:52):
college years, just observing they the brand wasn't the end goal.
The brand was actually arm or Nike or Adidas was
saying something about them, and I thought, well, why can't
they have brands. It ended up being three years before
I went and started round twenty one when I was
at under Armour, but I kept trying to figure out, well,
(08:13):
what would it mean if a brand was made with
the people for the people in sports? And tried to
think about a way to be what I would consider
of the times versus timeless, which so many brands in
sports are timeless and feel really good about being timeless.
I just wanted to do the antithesis of everything in
sports that put the value, proposition and power in the
(08:34):
hands of the people. And it was when COVID hit.
It was nothing to do with Peloton. At the time,
I was VP Global Brand at Peloton. The brand was
on its rise, the company was, you know, going into
amazing places. But I knew everyone was starting a new company,
from the most mature to the brand new, and I thought,
what a great time to start a new company, because
even if it fails, it's like this era no one's
(08:56):
lived in before. And it gave me the confidence to
go and see what would happen.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
I want to get back to the COVID thing a
little bit, but I want to get to the start
of Round twenty one, because you're not the only female
founded brand that was sort of changing the space around
that time. We're big fans of Esther Wallace and play
a Society here and she launched that just a couple
years before Round twenty one, so obviously you both saw
that there was a space begging for change beyond what
you said about realizing that the consumer might have their
(09:23):
own brand or their own identity that they want to project.
In addition to this timeless sort of coverings that everyone
was offering, what else was missing in the industry And specifically,
why did you want to speak to fans of women's sport?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Yeah, so, I mean, I think because I am a
woman and I played in the spirit of women's sports,
which is highly entrepreneurial. I mean even I remember as
a high school and college student, like the difference between
playing versus the boys team or the men's basketball team.
You don't even think about it, sadly, because it's so
expected that things are just going to be different back then,
(09:57):
and so recognizing that, I think there was a an
unconscious expectation that whatever Round twenty one would be was
going to be for all. That was really the operating principle,
including like the power in the hands of the people,
but also we were going to be for all men, women,
all in gender inclusive, and I think the vantage point
(10:19):
of starting something with that is that everything should be
for all, And so there wasn't a decision am I
going to start in men's sports and women's sports. It
was what's going to come naturally to me, and obviously
the basketball game came naturally to me. My network in
basketball came naturally to me. And when we started, I
knew that we weren't going to be writing big checks
the way big endorsers do to get into sports, like
(10:41):
a brand or you know, a licensed fee or something
like that, because I didn't have the money. I wanted
a place where the players came together that was unbranded,
and we started with ping pong. I don't know how
many people know that. I felt like, if you know,
you know, if you've spent time in locker rooms in
the NHL, the WN, the NBA, FIFA, there's a locker
(11:03):
room vibe around the ping pong table, and it's where
the players connect on their terms, and it's very laid
back and it's completely unbranded. So we started there and
our first ever order was from the NBA for the
Bubble season, and that Bubble season was, you know, incredibly
weighted with the conversations around social justice, and so the
(11:25):
artist we partnered with brought their lived experience through the
paddles and the ping pong table in the bubble and
created a forum for conversation around social justice. And so
it was a perfect manifestation for the values of Round
twenty one and now such a distant part of our history.
But it gave us access into the NBA, and our
(11:45):
first license was actually two on the same day with
the NFLPA and the WMBPA, because I really wanted to
make sure that we stood for the players, particularly as
you know we went into twenty one and you know,
Britney Grinder's situation was unfold. It was very important to
me that we were standing with the players for the players.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah, I mean, it feels strange for it to be
ping pong, but good and accurate that it would be
around this issue that was bringing people together, like you said,
a sort of a space that brings the athletes together.
And then the conversation matched sort of the message of
your products. So you start with ping pong. Do you
remember any of the other first products you launched with.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, So we thought that why is the world only
collecting trading cards? There should be other things that reflect
our sports history in our life beyond the trading cards.
So we started with collectibles that were the thing you
played said something about who you are and this spirit
of like inflatables were new home goods, and so the basketball,
(12:43):
the WNBA Players Association basketball was one of our most
successful products in twenty twenty two, and that I think
was a success. It was widely distributed. Exporting goods took
the product, fanatics took the product. It was widely representative.
Leisha Clarendon was on the products superd Diana Trossi, Canvas Parker,
(13:05):
So that was like, oh, it's representative and there's a
commercial value, let's go. But quickly people who got that
basketball and put it on a shelf were like, how
many basketball am I going to collect? Do you have
a pail? And I just started to listen to where
they wanted to take the business, and we went where
they wanted.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah, you know you mentioned too. There's this feeling, and
particularly I feel fans of women's sports so often conflate
their fandom or relate their fandom to the social issues
that they care about, and they want to wear the
message it is about who they are as much as
it is about who they root for. So it makes
a ton of sense that they would say, Okay, I
(13:43):
love this basketball and what it means, but only people
who come to my house get to see it. How
do I bring that message and that thing that I
want to share about myself out with me everywhere I go?
Which takes us back to your original sort of ethos
and seeing how people wanted to represent them and present themselves.
So with those things, and I wonder what you learned
(14:03):
about yourself in those early days of leaving the comforts
of corporate America to start something yourself.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Well, I learned that I don't know everything. Holy moly,
what a learning curve from everything to setting up quick
books properly in our first year, doing taxes as a
small business, to changing from LLC to INC too.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
I just did that. You can ask my producers. I
would just come in and they'd be like, how's your
damn Like, I hate taxes so much. Why is it
so hard to just go from an LLC to an escorp?
It shouldn't be this hard. I can't even get the
people who do this for a living to tell me
the right answer exactly.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
And I think that, you know, I didn't realize I
had to understand tax law to be an entrepreneur like
you actually do. So regardless of what happens to around
twenty one, Like the learning is the value at this
point because and then also setting up it, like it's
scarred in my soul how to get around twenty one
dot com email that doesn't go to people's spam. Yeah,
(15:00):
it took us about seven months for that to happen.
But all that said, I'd say I also learned that
I just keep going. And I've had a lot of
people tell me like it's because my parents. My parents
are equally hard working value productivity, want to go and
do it and want to do it on a lot
(15:21):
of times their terms and do it for the community.
Like there's a lot of that in me, and I
think because we built this business with the people, there's
a lot at stake, Like everything we do gives back
to the league or player because of the royalties. There's
a sense of every product pays it forward. But also
the artists and every product has an independent artist behind it,
(15:41):
so they're getting a part of their lifeblood from around
twenty one. So there's a lot of motivation too. So
that keeps us going. But it has been very hard,
but we're still up for the challenge.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yeah, So that makes a lot of sense. You learned
that about yourself and you see yourself from the lessons
maybe that came from your parents. What did you learn
about business that maybe you even looked back at working
at corporate spots and thought, oh, that would have been
interesting if I had known this about the bigger picture
when I was at those places playing a smaller role.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I mean, I think there's one thing about business I
learned that most people said to not do that We
did do that worked out and I didn't know if
it would, which is to diversify. Early, most whether it's
investors or people who were champions and still are of
me in round twenty one, were like, God, you have
to focus. I mean even other founders are like, I
don't know how you do it. All the teams, all
(16:31):
the products, all the leagues, NFTs, at one point, n FC,
chipped apparel, And the reason we did it was because
we didn't know what was going to hit right, so
I knew play the field. That's just kind of in sports,
you'd take as many shots as you can because you
don't know which ones will go in. It's exhausting, but
actually created a very durable company in a very fast
(16:55):
changing environment and yes, we were intentional about the leagues
we partnered with early, but we could not have imagined
what the WNBA would become in the five years Round
twenty one has been around, So we also always did
it from the heart, and so yes, we don't do
as many collectibles now. Yes we don't do NFTs now,
But would I do it differently Probably not. It kept
(17:18):
us of the times, which is what we want to
be and has made us really really strong as a
team as well.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
There's a flexibility and an agility to being smaller that
can make things really difficult to scale up, but also
means you can react in the moment, and like you said,
you wanted your brand to be of the moment instead
of sort of timeless. A lot of women's sports fans
have experienced throughout their time of rooting for teams that
merch brands fail to meet the moment. They don't have
(17:47):
merch available, they don't have jerseys for all the different players.
The jerseys come in at the end of the season
and you wanted to wear them for the season. These
problems continue to exist no matter how much we complain
about them, and so do these issues of quota quote things,
selling out in day one and you're like, that's not
a positive, it's actually bad that you didn't plan ahead
for the demand. You're leaving money on the table. Now
(18:08):
that you've worked both for yourself and for these major brands,
Why does this keep happening. Does it feel like the
big brands still just don't care and don't know the space,
or are there legit complications behind the scenes that these
big Nike fueled league, you know, partnerships and things like
that that actually contribute to why that still happens.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
I know for a fact that inventory is like blood,
you have too much or too little, you die. So
I do think there's a real business reason people plan
their inventory a certain way. The challenge within women's sports
is that there's an expectation that it won't sell, and
that is a leadership problem, not a business problem, because
(18:49):
there is absolutely no question that fans of all sports
continue to seek out ways to connect in and beyond
the game. One of the most durable, recession proof entities
in the world. That's bringing people together when the world
is looking for more ways to come together. Then, regarding
women's sports, the challenges of where do I watch it,
(19:11):
how do I find it. The conversation around the media
exposure has been I think now quite well in the
spotlight for ten years, and people like you have been
around for more than that trying to build the narrative
and the sustainability of access that has now hit, I
think a maturity we hope to continue to see grow.
(19:33):
Merch is a billboard for people to wear when they're
part of a piece of culture, and is proven in music.
It's proven in so many different facets of mature sports
that it is a sure effing thing that women's sports
is going to be a major business for merchandise providers.
The people that are here building it and sustaining it
(19:56):
since five years ago, seven years ago, ten years ago,
are in my opinion, unfortunately starting to be overshadowed by
big checks and big companies coming in because they can
write a check and have supply chain even though they're
slower moving, and we are still filling those gaps when
they sell out, and that's the disappointing thing to me.
(20:18):
So as we build ahead, you know, we're very bullish
on women's sports. We've I just did another podcast where
I said WNBA is our core, not a category, it's
our core. And we have an NWSL partnership coming up
that's breaking news on this podcast right We're very excited
about it and are also building with players. We have
(20:39):
a basketball player in the college ranks right now who
wants to be a fashion designer. It's not even with
the team marks, and she came to around twenty one
to build her you know, to help build her brand
or the beginning of her brand, and we're here for it.
So it's a problem from a leadership perspective, not from
a business perspective.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yeah, there was a Sports Innovation Lab research partnership with
clarn that said that major brands are missing out on
four billion dollars annually in women's sports merchandise due to
lack of variety for availability compared to men's sports. So
there is plenty there to get after if the right
people are in charge to make it happen. Tell me
about your Shark Tank experience, because that happened kind of
(21:18):
early in round twenty one. Why didn't you ultimately decide
to move forward with the deal you agreed.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
To, Well, it was very clear that the final shark
that was willing to take a chance with Round twenty
one his character Obviously I don't know the person, but
his character is misaligned to Round twenty one's values. Kevin
O'Leary has built his character around being ruthlessly chasing the dollar,
being really rooted in kind of a cutthroat environment. That
(21:45):
is the ante. This is a Round twenty one like,
we're here to really serve first. We are for the people.
We have an absolute emotional connection to everything that we do,
and so it just didn't make sense coming off Yeah,
the show, but I wouldn't take that experience away from
Round twenty one's history. Ever. It was a wonderful experience
and has definitely paid dividends in terms of exposure and
(22:07):
support for us. You know, since twenty twenty two, we.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Got to take a quick break more with Jazz and
Maetta right after this. You've talked a lot about the
idea of community in creating Round twenty one and in
expanding it, the importance of co creation. How do you
let go of a little bit of control to embrace
(22:34):
the ways that others can help your brand expand or
reimagine itself and grow. Because I think we all agree
with the idea of community, of course, but for some
of us it can be difficult to let go of
our baby or to feel like we can trust others
with it.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah, we define community as those we co create with.
So I think community in some situations is defined more
as how do we let the people vote, give them
decision making power, etc. For us, community is curation first.
You know, we do. Round twenty one has a set
of values. We have a set of beliefs. We want
(23:08):
to make sure that we stand for the people and
make standing out the new standard and sport, and we
have an optimistic point of view. We want to be
there bringing people's emotions up and uplifting and all of
that is available in art and sport. But a lot
of art and sport is about like the agony of defeat,
or art has messages about death and destruction. That's not
(23:32):
for us. So we start with what we believe and
then we curate, and we curate particularly like minded artists,
because artists, we believe, are capturing history as it's happening,
since the dawn of time, since before the dawn of time.
So if artists are capturing history as it's happening, they
are bringing their lived experience and their craft information. With
(23:53):
sports because we're giving them that access and reimagining expression
in sports in a new way. That is giving up
all the control to the artists. But because they were curated,
because they aligned to our belief system and our values,
it typically results in something very wonderful and beautiful. I
am trying to build a company where if you took
(24:15):
Jasmine out of the equation, the platform would exist sports teams,
leagues and athletes and independent artists. So I'm happy to
give up the control as long as the infrastructure is
set up the right way.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yeah, you said in an interview Round twenty one believes
that being better is good, but being different is better.
Tell me about that ethos.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
That is from like twenty twenty Your research.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Team really went research team is me exactly? Not always
Alex and meshe do a lot, but that today was
me just digging around.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
I mean, I think I've worked for incredible generation defining
companies that were motivated of requorter to be better. Better
than themselves for sure, and better than others that they
see as competitors, particularly in women's sports. There is enough
room for everybody today. I have no doubt there are
(25:10):
ten multi billion dollar companies that I'm like sitting side
by side with if they want to measure success on money.
What we are operating on is a position of how
do we be different than the establishment? And I learn
a lot from early days, you know, when Apple and
(25:31):
Steve Jobs are kind of being reinvented about how shattering
the status quo is an emotion. It's not necessarily a
functional widget in the phone, but it's an emotion that
you bring people. That is where we start and end
with what we're bringing to people. And we just did
this US Open thing. I was bummed that it didn't
(25:51):
get you product before you went yeah to the US.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
I know, and then I was out of the country,
so I just got home to it and I'm like, well,
after it's over. But I think on green tennis ball
felt bag is cool year round and I will be
using it. I can shop for my honeyduice ingredients to
make it at home using the bag.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
There you go. But like, the tennis world doesn't need
a tennis bag. But what the tennis world we believe
could benefit from is a message of love all and
particularly in this environment. So that's what being different means
versus just being better and making a better leather strap
for a bag. We just don't measure or look at
(26:29):
the world through that lens.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Well, And it makes so much sense when you look
at your products. I mean, I love what you do
and it stands out and you can almost always tell
when you're walking around, oh that looks like it's around
twenty one. Oh that's around twenty one, And especially in
the women's sports space, where thank god, we're past pink
it and shrinket. In fact, we've almost like gone so
far that we can go back. Like when I started,
(26:52):
I didn't want to wear anything pink or sparkly or
girly because I wanted to prove that I was a
real fan. And now we've moved far enough ahead that
you can wear anything mask, feminine, sparkly, glittery, pink, whatever.
And it doesn't mean anything about who you root for
and how you root for them. It just means that
there's a lot of choices now, which is really great.
(27:14):
But your stuff, in particular, I think stands out because
it always screams cool to me. And for such a
long time, there wasn't a cool factor to wrapping women's sports,
not just because society shit on them all the time,
but because the product oftentimes was so infantilized that to
be a grown person wanting to wear it out, you
(27:35):
just kind of felt like it didn't mix with your vibe.
And so to your point, folks who want to go
out and have their clothes be an expression of their
identity now have this choice to do so in a
really cool way. And that's why I think it's so
fun watching the Tunnel fits, watching WNBA All Star everyone
wearing their fits, because you do get to see women's
sports be the cutting edge, women athletes be on the
(27:55):
forefront of fashion in a way we never saw before.
And that comes from a lot of really cool partner
What are some of the partnerships that you're most proud
of that you've done with Round twenty one?
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Oh my gosh, DoorDash and Chase have been incredible partners
And I would never have been able to pick those
two brands out of the hat five years ago. I
would have certainly thought it would have been some fashion
house or maybe another sports brand. But the trust that
those two partners have in Round twenty one's creator, community,
(28:25):
and production value to one create alternative fashion for sport,
but also bridge their brand with the community through women's
sports is unlike anything else I've ever seen in my
career within brand marketing, particularly DoorDash last year and I
had people in my network be like, how did you
(28:46):
do that w logo DoorDash Round twenty one? It was
because of DoorDash. DoorDash was like, probably just want to
be supportive of the growth of the game. We want
to find a way that DoorDash feels like we are
supporting it through merch. We hear merch has a four
billion dollar gap. Can Round twenty one represent that? And
(29:07):
we enlisted Shama Love, who's had an incredible fingerprint on
what Round twenty one's brought to market through her artistry
and this massive WNBA kind of treatment. But DoorDash covered
the cost almost entirely for the community, and they said, Yeah,
the least we can do is help the game grow
on by getting more product out there, and then chase
(29:28):
with the US Open and the PGA Championship basically have
these long time endemic partnerships with mature sports tennis and
golf that have really never had an injection of cultural
capital the way Round twenty one is bringing, and they're
giving us a playground to essentially do what we normally do,
(29:48):
but are bringing the full weight of their brand engine
behind it to make sure that the people within the
sports see it, not just our community. And so I
hope to grow with both of them. But it's been
an incredible amount of trust that's really set those two
partnerships apart.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
What's a dream brand or athlete you want to work with?
Speaker 2 (30:07):
You know, we love all of our athletes equally, but
there is a type of athlete that we want to
work with and you see them, but basically athletes who
have something to say and who aren't afraid to say it.
And we don't mean that to be like cultural injections
of like you know, creating water cooler talk, but to
give to give credit to the collegiate player like she's
(30:30):
she says, my college career is a jumping off point
for what I do in my life. And I think
a lot of athletes know that, and I don't men
and women. A lot of athletes know that. And so
we've partnered, i'd say, most famously with Britney Griner when
she came back from Russia, and you know, Lindsay at
Wasserman essentially was like, you don't make athletes a character
(30:52):
in the round twenty one story. You give them a
platform for their story, and that was so powerful to
me that any athlete that wants to say something and
wants to use our platform to say it through products
and experiences, we're here for it. From a brand partnership perspective,
I would say that there is a crossover culture we're
(31:14):
entering into. I would love to announce that we're about
to do a drop on September twenty seventh with Marseille Martin.
She is the new prototype within Hollywood. She is a
multi highphenitt producer, director, actor, as well as aspiring fashion designer,
and she wants to use our platform to express her
perspective on the WNBA, on players and the fans who
(31:39):
are here for it. So I'd say that is an
example of the crossover culture is available for musicians, for actors,
for people in culture that love what the w stands
for and want to celebrate it. But that one kind
of came true here and you know, we're just about
two weeks away and I can't be I can't be
more excited.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Okay, last two questions were running out of time. I'm
bringing it back full circle. I mentioned five years of
Round twenty one, which means it was a COVID baby.
You mentioned that, and I wonder if you can look
back now reflecting, how does the gift of time or
the gift of change trigger these moments of revelation? And
do you think we can create these moments or only
find them organically.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
I think that it's a combination of both. I think
creating moments is really understanding what you are about and
building from a source of truth. There's a line in
a killer song it's actually background vocals, and the line
is time, truth, heart, and I believe that those three
(32:43):
characteristics are in a way in our control. Time is
obviously patients, but there has to be a set amount
of time for greatness to happen, and so giving I
guess a mental hack is like understanding that the plants
you're seeding now may not farther down the road. Truth
is putting it all in on the thing that you
(33:05):
believe or that you do and not really holding anything back.
And heart is, you know, making sure that you're doing
it at full capacity. I think a lot of people
think they're working hard, they're not. A lot of people
think that they've exhausted all options. We haven't, and so
being you know, truly committed to it and making sure
(33:27):
you surround yourself as well with the people that support
it is incredibly important. And then I think they talk
about in business, particularly entrepreneurship and startups, is that there
has to be typically there has to be some sort
of external inflection point, whether it was you know, the
GPS on a phone and Uber, or for us, it's
the growth of the women's game in many pockets and
(33:50):
around the world hitting when round twenty one is is
you know, becoming and coming into formation of I think,
who we're going to become and hitting another level. We
couldn't have predicted that, we couldn't have created that, but
that has to be present for us to reach our
highest form of potential, and so we are benefiting from
that time timing and that I think is the luck
(34:11):
part of it well.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
And I think they also call it lightning bolt moments
when people change major habits, and they say that those
are very hard to create. They almost always have to
happen organically, whether that's a critical diagnosis in your health
or you move to a new city and it completely
changes what's around you and that changes your habit. Like
it's very hard to intentionally do that, but after talking
(34:34):
to so many people and reading so much about what
people did to change their lives and to follow their
passions during COVID because there was that stop, it does
feel like, if anything, we should at least try to
microdose that feeling. We can't stop everything again, and thank
god we won't have to hopefully knock on wood, but
we can take a lesson from the fact that when
we all slow down all of a sudden, so many
(34:56):
people were like, wait, I don't even like what I'm doing,
This isn't even what I want to be. What do
I actually want to do? And how do I want
to spend my time? And it birthed so many amazing
things like round twenty one. Okay, last question for you.
You mentioned that you wanted to be the best at everything,
and part of that came from insecurity, so not wanting
to be maybe a lawyer or doctor because it didn't
come naturally. For those who think, wow, I could never
(35:18):
leave the corporate world and found my own thing and
not be terrified, do you still have the insecurity of
I have to be the best, or I shouldn't try
or do something, or have you found that creating this
company has let you understand better the risk reward, of
the potential for failure, of dreaming bigger, of taking a
bigger risk than maybe you thought you could before.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I've definitely started to let it go. I think the
insecurity fear of failure is ego. I think ego is
a big piece of me not wanting to seem like
I don't have the answer that I'm not going to succeed,
And thank goodness, because of time and maybe because of
truth and heart, because we've been doing it. Literally, I
(36:00):
can't give any more, Like I literally cannot give any more.
If it fails, then I've left it all on the court.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
You know.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
I feel very satisfied in that. I also benefited from
watching two founder led companies at companies I've worked for
tie their personal identity to their company, and I decided
day zero, I wasn't going to do that. My identity
is who I am as an aunt to my niece Isabella,
as a sister to my brother, as a child to
(36:29):
my parents, to my friend's network, and so I think
by decoupling that, luckily, I'm sparing any feeling that if
this doesn't go where I need it to go that
I personally somehow have failed. So I've definitely evolved and
I think that's a good sign too as we all
grow into new spaces. But it's not something I planned
(36:50):
on doing, but it did happen naturally.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
You are just a couple years older than me, and
I am fingers crossed that when I get a couple
years older, I'll get to that moment that you're at.
I'm still struggle with a lot of that stuff, and
the older women I speak to always say bigger risks,
be willing to fail. I really, I really struggle with that.
I think you're right. It as a little ego of like,
I've got d answers and if I don't, I'm not
going to try it because that I'll be proven that
I can't do it.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Sarah, if there's one person in media I don't even
know how you define yourself that should take great comfort
in path owned direction mine and if all hell breaks loose,
who can It's you? I mean you have established an
accessibility and a very i'd say credibility in everything you
(37:35):
speak about that. I think accessibility incredibly. I don't know
what you put your brand values on, but those are
two big Time brand values that I see you live
every single.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Day, so that's really nice of you to say. It
was so great to talk to you. It's so great
to wear your stuff. Whenever I look at what other
people wear it, I go, I guess I should wear that.
I'm not cool enough to know that it's cool. And
then I wear it and everyone's like, oh, I love
where you're wearing my oathings. I'm only wearing it because
round twenty one said it was cool. But thank you
so much for coming on.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
It was great to catch up you too, Thanks for
the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Thanks again to Jasmine for hanging out with us. We
got to take another break when we come back. Girls Rule,
Boys Drule and other T shirts we can blessedly leave
behind welcome back slices. We love that you're listening, but
we want you to get in the game every day too,
(38:27):
So here's our good gameplay of the day. We want
to hear about your favorite old women's sports merch. Do
you remember the first women's sports related T shirt you bought,
or that moment the WNBA jersey ordered seven months earlier
finally arrived in the mail. We want to hear about it.
How about you too, Alex Mesh, do you have memories
of this?
Speaker 4 (38:46):
The first thing that comes to mind from my personal
athletic career is a T shirt my parents bought me
from a middle school hockey tournament that said hockey is
for girls and don't you forget it in all cabs
and pink and purple writing of course instant classic.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Yeah, you still have it too. I love that I
do still have it.
Speaker 4 (39:04):
I also want to shout out my friend Brie, who
famously wears her two thousand and four Aiming for Athens
softball shirt. And when she got it in middle school,
it was huge on her and now it is the
perfect size.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
First U cure so cute meish? What about you? Oof?
Speaker 3 (39:22):
I have this ancient Christy Tolliver University of Maryland, Jersey.
And by ancient, of course, I mean circa two thousand
and six, because I am indeed.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Oh, in the two thousands is not ancient. Yeah, it's
ancient to me, baby. I'll show you something ancient, but.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
That's knocking around somewhere in the back of my closet.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
I loved that jersey.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
It was hung up on my wall all sorts of
stills of Christie in competition too.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
I was obsessed. I was so obsessed. If you want
to talk about ancient I have stuff in my closet
that used to be in style, went all the way
out of style, and it's now back in style. That
in my closet and I'm like, wait, this is beck
it again. Yes, honestly, I can't remember any early women's
sports merch. When I was coming up, it was just
Jordan all the time. I had the best MJ shirt
(40:14):
that just had his face on the front and it
said why Drive And on the back it had just
his legs and it said when you can fly? And
I wore it before every single basketball and track meet
for all of junior and senior year and all of
college until I eventually had to cut the sleeves off. Y'all,
remember those shirts that you love so much? You had
to cut the sleeves off because they got real gross.
That's it. I just just Jordan Gear, just Jordan Gear
(40:36):
as a kid, forever and ever and still. If you
remember yours, hit us up on email good game at
Wondermedia network dot com, or leave us a voicemail at
eight seven two two four fifty seventy and don't forget
to subscribe, rate and review. It's easy watch the end
of Pinke and shrinket rating zero out of zero, ugly
ass t shirts with Yankee logos and our closets review.
(41:01):
Thank goodness for round twenty one play a Society, Breaking
Tea and all the other creators giving us that good
merch so we can proudly fashionably rep our favorite squads
and players. If you like pink Rocket, if you like
sparkles and sequins, rock them. Now that we have enough
options to wear anything and everything, we can actually choose
(41:22):
to lean into our super fem sides sometimes and not
feel like wannabes are day ones. And when we want
to rock a big ass double XL jersey and track pants,
we're going to pull that off too. And when we
want to wear good game with syrh Spain merch, we
go to Breaking Tea dot Com slash bin. Yeah yeah,
nice plug. Now it's your turn, rate and review. Thanks
for listening, See you tomorrow. Good game, Jasmine in round
(41:44):
twenty one, Good Game. Finding a way to stay in sports,
even if it means changing your whole career path. Q
taxes not you know the actual concept of taxing individuals
to improve in support society. That's fine, I guess, but
the process of learning the rules and filling out all
the forms that can go ahead and kick rocks. Good
(42:07):
Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports production
in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can
find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network, our
producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive producers
are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutterer.
(42:28):
Our editors are Emily Rutter, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and
Gianna Palmer. Our associate producer is Lucy Jones. Production assistants
from Avery Loftus and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we take
our pumpkins, spice in candle and pie form only. Thank
you very much. It's Monday, September twenty second, and on
today's show, we'll be skipping the need to know and
getting straight to my conversation with Round twenty one CEO
Jasmine Maeta. I caught up with her last week to
talk about leaving the safety of big corporations behind to
start her own business, the evolving landscape of independent brands
(00:23):
in the women's sports space, and benefiting from advice she
didn't take. If you've ever wondered about the behind the
scenes process that leads to your favorite merch or if
you need a nudge to get that passion project off
the ground, this conversation's for you. As for the start
of the WNBA semi Finals and the rest of the
weekend in sports, don't you worry. We'll be back tomorrow
with a full breakdown of all the goings on. Stick
(00:46):
around when we come back. A fantastic conversation with Jasmine
joining us today. She's the CEO of Round twenty one,
a lifestyle brand that partners with artists to reimagine sports
products as wearable and collectible art, and works to expand
the cultural impact of teams, leagues, and players through products
(01:07):
and experiences beyond the game. Formerly an execut spots including Peloton,
where she was a global brand VP and under Armour,
where she was at a marketing plus Hasbro and Reebok,
she was a college hooper at Boden and earned her
Masters in economics while also coaching at Trinity College, Hartford.
She's been known to wear a helmet to watch her
beloved New England Patriots play, and she needs to drop
the deets on the leather pants she wore a WNBA
(01:28):
All Star. It's Jasmine my ed.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Leather pants as part of my intro. That's a first.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
I mean those were so fire though. Can you tell
us where you got them? Because you paired them with
a sick round twenty one top.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
At that top was what we call courk couture by
any yes, exactly. I went to Neeman's and said fit me,
and they threw on leather pants. I was not expecting that.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Okay, well, if you find the label, shoot me a
DM because I want to try those suckers on before
we get to around twenty one. I want to start
with your sports bona fe des because there are pretty
legit star point guard in high school back in Oklahoma,
college ball at Boden, and you even spent some time
in Spain playing pro. So tell us a little bit
about your pro experience in Madrid. What was that like.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Well, that was back in the nineties, so it was
a different era for sure, but it was great. I mean,
to go and play overseas in a European league that
really equally appreciates the female and the male game at
the time was a real dream. But I always knew
that sport was a jumping off point for me. It
wasn't something in my family that was a professional endeavor.
(02:36):
So it was great to learn a new language and
go over there. But after a year, I was ready
for what was next. Still couldn't retire from the game,
but knew I wanted to come home.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
So yeah, you went on to coach. You coached at
the high school level and at Trinity College, Hartford. While
you're studying there, you also got certified and worked as
a strength and conditioning coach. So at that time was
a lifetime of being a coach.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Kind of your plan one hundred percent my plan. I
felt like it was a way to stay close to
the game, and I really didn't have any confidence doing
anything else. I wanted to play as far as I could,
and then I wanted to coach as far as I could.
And this idea of strength and conditioning was a new
part of the coaching staff, and I always liked doing
things a little bit counterculture, so I wanted to see
(03:16):
if x's and o's versus strength and conditioning were the
path to take. So I did both for a while
and really ended up taking the strength and conditioning path
to be able to train athletes of all different sports
and to continue to give me a sense of i'd
say challenge as I matured in my career.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
So you studied anthropology in school, and also you mentioned
that sports wasn't necessarily organic to your family. Your parents
were immigrants from India. I've spoken to so many first
gens and they all have the same story of doctor, lawyer, accountant.
Did you have the same expectations and when you said
(03:52):
all right, coaching, what was the response for mom and dad?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Yeah? I think they knew basketball was my identity even
from a very young age, so they didn't successfully change
that which there were i'd say natural encouragement moments like
how much can you go and play? You need to
stay true to your studies. That's kind of the way
that parents from India talk about school. And when I
went on to then play in Spain, I think they
(04:17):
recognized that this was actually a real important piece of
my identity that I wasn't going to easily change. But
when I came back, there was encouragement to try medical school.
There was encouragement by way of like, we'll pay for
you to go to medical school. I even sat, I
think for the l sat and never really you know,
took it seriously. But it wasn't It just wasn't natural
(04:41):
for me to leave the game. And I really do
think it was from a position of insecurity. But I
knew that if I could be the best at what
I could do, even if it was coaching, that I
would get a lot of fulfillment out of it. I
very famously in high school said, even if I become
a janitor, I'm going to be the best janitor. I'm
going to make brownies for the kids when they get
ready for championships. It was just always something that I
(05:02):
felt like that was what I had learned from my
parents was no matter the job, try to be the
best at it, and that I think they appreciated and
definitely saw that I was going to, you know, throw
the kitchen sink at whatever I did, and coaching was
going to be it.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
But it wasn't because you end up pivoting into marketing.
So how did you decide to make that switch? And
then what did you learn from your time at places
like Reebok and under Armour about the sports apparel brand space.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah, so as a coach, I was a yeller like
I really was a yeller like Veins, and I would
come home just exhausted, and I felt like, in some
cases I felt like I wanted it more than the
players in a way, because I was coaching at the
Division III level and you know, they are there for
their studies. And so it was through the lens of
recruiting that I felt this is marketing. I'm expressing the
(05:52):
school's value to the mom and the dad. Differently, I'm
talking to the kid about the value. Differently. That's brand positioning.
Trying to make sure that the school was considered better
or at least a competitive choice relative to another school.
That's marketing, and so having recognized that, I felt like
they stay eighteen to twenty one. I kept getting older.
I'm a yeller. I'm tired, like there's got to be
(06:14):
a way to continue to grow in my career versus
just staying in kind of x's and o's. And so
I applied at Rebok. I applied famously for me three times,
and it was in a very short time. So it
kept feeling like they were bringing me in. And the
last time they said, we feel like we want somebody
like you, but you've never had your twenty six, you've
never worked in corporate. We just don't know. And finally somebody,
(06:38):
Marcus Wilson, took a chance on me and gave me
a position, and I stayed in kind of corporate global
roles after that for almost twenty years.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah, twenty years working for as I mentioned, Peloton under
Armor hasbro Rebock. You're learning the space and many different
assets along the way, and then you decide I want
to branch out on my own. Months ago, you just
celebrated the five year anniversary of Round twenty one. So
tell us about starting the brand and why you wanted
to go out on your own instead of continuing to
(07:08):
have the safety of working at a big time brand.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Safety is true. Actually, that is something that you get
with that, and it's a great experience in your career
to work for a well established, mature corporate entity. When
I was at under Armour is where I recognized that
there was an alternative available that at least that I
saw that I wanted to see in sports, which was
(07:30):
at the time I was positioning it more as like
a brand for the people versus you know, just the
IP owners, the teams, the leagues. But I saw every
single season I would go and show kids shirts and shoes,
they cared more about their personal brand than the brand
that they were putting on. And I started to understand,
and I think this is the anthro legacy from my
(07:52):
college years, just observing they the brand wasn't the end goal.
The brand was actually arm or Nike or Adidas was
saying something about them, and I thought, well, why can't
they have brands. It ended up being three years before
I went and started round twenty one when I was
at under Armour, but I kept trying to figure out, well,
(08:13):
what would it mean if a brand was made with
the people for the people in sports? And tried to
think about a way to be what I would consider
of the times versus timeless, which so many brands in
sports are timeless and feel really good about being timeless.
I just wanted to do the antithesis of everything in
sports that put the value, proposition and power in the
(08:34):
hands of the people. And it was when COVID hit.
It was nothing to do with Peloton. At the time,
I was VP Global Brand at Peloton. The brand was
on its rise, the company was, you know, going into
amazing places. But I knew everyone was starting a new company,
from the most mature to the brand new, and I thought,
what a great time to start a new company, because
even if it fails, it's like this era no one's
(08:56):
lived in before. And it gave me the confidence to
go and see what would happen.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
I want to get back to the COVID thing a
little bit, but I want to get to the start
of Round twenty one, because you're not the only female
founded brand that was sort of changing the space around
that time. We're big fans of Esther Wallace and play
a Society here and she launched that just a couple
years before Round twenty one, so obviously you both saw
that there was a space begging for change beyond what
you said about realizing that the consumer might have their
(09:23):
own brand or their own identity that they want to project.
In addition to this timeless sort of coverings that everyone
was offering, what else was missing in the industry And specifically,
why did you want to speak to fans of women's sport?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Yeah, so, I mean, I think because I am a
woman and I played in the spirit of women's sports,
which is highly entrepreneurial. I mean even I remember as
a high school and college student, like the difference between
playing versus the boys team or the men's basketball team.
You don't even think about it, sadly, because it's so
expected that things are just going to be different back then,
(09:57):
and so recognizing that, I think there was a an
unconscious expectation that whatever Round twenty one would be was
going to be for all. That was really the operating principle,
including like the power in the hands of the people,
but also we were going to be for all men, women,
all in gender inclusive, and I think the vantage point
(10:19):
of starting something with that is that everything should be
for all, And so there wasn't a decision am I
going to start in men's sports and women's sports. It
was what's going to come naturally to me, and obviously
the basketball game came naturally to me. My network in
basketball came naturally to me. And when we started, I
knew that we weren't going to be writing big checks
the way big endorsers do to get into sports, like
(10:41):
a brand or you know, a licensed fee or something
like that, because I didn't have the money. I wanted
a place where the players came together that was unbranded,
and we started with ping pong. I don't know how
many people know that. I felt like, if you know,
you know, if you've spent time in locker rooms in
the NHL, the WN, the NBA, FIFA, there's a locker
(11:03):
room vibe around the ping pong table, and it's where
the players connect on their terms, and it's very laid
back and it's completely unbranded. So we started there and
our first ever order was from the NBA for the
Bubble season, and that Bubble season was, you know, incredibly
weighted with the conversations around social justice, and so the
(11:25):
artist we partnered with brought their lived experience through the
paddles and the ping pong table in the bubble and
created a forum for conversation around social justice. And so
it was a perfect manifestation for the values of Round
twenty one and now such a distant part of our history.
But it gave us access into the NBA, and our
(11:45):
first license was actually two on the same day with
the NFLPA and the WMBPA, because I really wanted to
make sure that we stood for the players, particularly as
you know we went into twenty one and you know,
Britney Grinder's situation was unfold. It was very important to
me that we were standing with the players for the players.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah, I mean, it feels strange for it to be
ping pong, but good and accurate that it would be
around this issue that was bringing people together, like you said,
a sort of a space that brings the athletes together.
And then the conversation matched sort of the message of
your products. So you start with ping pong. Do you
remember any of the other first products you launched with.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, So we thought that why is the world only
collecting trading cards? There should be other things that reflect
our sports history in our life beyond the trading cards.
So we started with collectibles that were the thing you
played said something about who you are and this spirit
of like inflatables were new home goods, and so the basketball,
(12:43):
the WNBA Players Association basketball was one of our most
successful products in twenty twenty two, and that I think
was a success. It was widely distributed. Exporting goods took
the product, fanatics took the product. It was widely representative.
Leisha Clarendon was on the products superd Diana Trossi, Canvas Parker,
(13:05):
So that was like, oh, it's representative and there's a
commercial value, let's go. But quickly people who got that
basketball and put it on a shelf were like, how
many basketball am I going to collect? Do you have
a pail? And I just started to listen to where
they wanted to take the business, and we went where
they wanted.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah, you know you mentioned too. There's this feeling, and
particularly I feel fans of women's sports so often conflate
their fandom or relate their fandom to the social issues
that they care about, and they want to wear the
message it is about who they are as much as
it is about who they root for. So it makes
a ton of sense that they would say, Okay, I
(13:43):
love this basketball and what it means, but only people
who come to my house get to see it. How
do I bring that message and that thing that I
want to share about myself out with me everywhere I go?
Which takes us back to your original sort of ethos
and seeing how people wanted to represent them and present themselves.
So with those things, and I wonder what you learned
(14:03):
about yourself in those early days of leaving the comforts
of corporate America to start something yourself.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Well, I learned that I don't know everything. Holy moly,
what a learning curve from everything to setting up quick
books properly in our first year, doing taxes as a
small business, to changing from LLC to INC too.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
I just did that. You can ask my producers. I
would just come in and they'd be like, how's your
damn Like, I hate taxes so much. Why is it
so hard to just go from an LLC to an escorp?
It shouldn't be this hard. I can't even get the
people who do this for a living to tell me
the right answer exactly.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
And I think that, you know, I didn't realize I
had to understand tax law to be an entrepreneur like
you actually do. So regardless of what happens to around
twenty one, Like the learning is the value at this
point because and then also setting up it, like it's
scarred in my soul how to get around twenty one
dot com email that doesn't go to people's spam. Yeah,
(15:00):
it took us about seven months for that to happen.
But all that said, I'd say I also learned that
I just keep going. And I've had a lot of
people tell me like it's because my parents. My parents
are equally hard working value productivity, want to go and
do it and want to do it on a lot
(15:21):
of times their terms and do it for the community.
Like there's a lot of that in me, and I
think because we built this business with the people, there's
a lot at stake, Like everything we do gives back
to the league or player because of the royalties. There's
a sense of every product pays it forward. But also
the artists and every product has an independent artist behind it,
(15:41):
so they're getting a part of their lifeblood from around
twenty one. So there's a lot of motivation too. So
that keeps us going. But it has been very hard,
but we're still up for the challenge.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yeah, So that makes a lot of sense. You learned
that about yourself and you see yourself from the lessons
maybe that came from your parents. What did you learn
about business that maybe you even looked back at working
at corporate spots and thought, oh, that would have been
interesting if I had known this about the bigger picture
when I was at those places playing a smaller role.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I mean, I think there's one thing about business I
learned that most people said to not do that We
did do that worked out and I didn't know if
it would, which is to diversify. Early, most whether it's
investors or people who were champions and still are of
me in round twenty one, were like, God, you have
to focus. I mean even other founders are like, I
don't know how you do it. All the teams, all
(16:31):
the products, all the leagues, NFTs, at one point, n FC,
chipped apparel, And the reason we did it was because
we didn't know what was going to hit right, so
I knew play the field. That's just kind of in sports,
you'd take as many shots as you can because you
don't know which ones will go in. It's exhausting, but
actually created a very durable company in a very fast
(16:55):
changing environment and yes, we were intentional about the leagues
we partnered with early, but we could not have imagined
what the WNBA would become in the five years Round
twenty one has been around, So we also always did
it from the heart, and so yes, we don't do
as many collectibles now. Yes we don't do NFTs now,
But would I do it differently Probably not. It kept
(17:18):
us of the times, which is what we want to
be and has made us really really strong as a
team as well.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
There's a flexibility and an agility to being smaller that
can make things really difficult to scale up, but also
means you can react in the moment, and like you said,
you wanted your brand to be of the moment instead
of sort of timeless. A lot of women's sports fans
have experienced throughout their time of rooting for teams that
merch brands fail to meet the moment. They don't have
(17:47):
merch available, they don't have jerseys for all the different players.
The jerseys come in at the end of the season
and you wanted to wear them for the season. These
problems continue to exist no matter how much we complain
about them, and so do these issues of quota quote things,
selling out in day one and you're like, that's not
a positive, it's actually bad that you didn't plan ahead
for the demand. You're leaving money on the table. Now
(18:08):
that you've worked both for yourself and for these major brands,
Why does this keep happening. Does it feel like the
big brands still just don't care and don't know the space,
or are there legit complications behind the scenes that these
big Nike fueled league, you know, partnerships and things like
that that actually contribute to why that still happens.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
I know for a fact that inventory is like blood,
you have too much or too little, you die. So
I do think there's a real business reason people plan
their inventory a certain way. The challenge within women's sports
is that there's an expectation that it won't sell, and
that is a leadership problem, not a business problem, because
(18:49):
there is absolutely no question that fans of all sports
continue to seek out ways to connect in and beyond
the game. One of the most durable, recession proof entities
in the world. That's bringing people together when the world
is looking for more ways to come together. Then, regarding
women's sports, the challenges of where do I watch it,
(19:11):
how do I find it. The conversation around the media
exposure has been I think now quite well in the
spotlight for ten years, and people like you have been
around for more than that trying to build the narrative
and the sustainability of access that has now hit, I
think a maturity we hope to continue to see grow.
(19:33):
Merch is a billboard for people to wear when they're
part of a piece of culture, and is proven in music.
It's proven in so many different facets of mature sports
that it is a sure effing thing that women's sports
is going to be a major business for merchandise providers.
The people that are here building it and sustaining it
(19:56):
since five years ago, seven years ago, ten years ago,
are in my opinion, unfortunately starting to be overshadowed by
big checks and big companies coming in because they can
write a check and have supply chain even though they're
slower moving, and we are still filling those gaps when
they sell out, and that's the disappointing thing to me.
(20:18):
So as we build ahead, you know, we're very bullish
on women's sports. We've I just did another podcast where
I said WNBA is our core, not a category, it's
our core. And we have an NWSL partnership coming up
that's breaking news on this podcast right We're very excited
about it and are also building with players. We have
(20:39):
a basketball player in the college ranks right now who
wants to be a fashion designer. It's not even with
the team marks, and she came to around twenty one
to build her you know, to help build her brand
or the beginning of her brand, and we're here for it.
So it's a problem from a leadership perspective, not from
a business perspective.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yeah, there was a Sports Innovation Lab research partnership with
clarn that said that major brands are missing out on
four billion dollars annually in women's sports merchandise due to
lack of variety for availability compared to men's sports. So
there is plenty there to get after if the right
people are in charge to make it happen. Tell me
about your Shark Tank experience, because that happened kind of
(21:18):
early in round twenty one. Why didn't you ultimately decide
to move forward with the deal you agreed.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
To, Well, it was very clear that the final shark
that was willing to take a chance with Round twenty
one his character Obviously I don't know the person, but
his character is misaligned to Round twenty one's values. Kevin
O'Leary has built his character around being ruthlessly chasing the dollar,
being really rooted in kind of a cutthroat environment. That
(21:45):
is the ante. This is a Round twenty one like,
we're here to really serve first. We are for the people.
We have an absolute emotional connection to everything that we do,
and so it just didn't make sense coming off Yeah,
the show, but I wouldn't take that experience away from
Round twenty one's history. Ever. It was a wonderful experience
and has definitely paid dividends in terms of exposure and
(22:07):
support for us. You know, since twenty twenty two, we.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Got to take a quick break more with Jazz and
Maetta right after this. You've talked a lot about the
idea of community in creating Round twenty one and in
expanding it, the importance of co creation. How do you
let go of a little bit of control to embrace
(22:34):
the ways that others can help your brand expand or
reimagine itself and grow. Because I think we all agree
with the idea of community, of course, but for some
of us it can be difficult to let go of
our baby or to feel like we can trust others
with it.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah, we define community as those we co create with.
So I think community in some situations is defined more
as how do we let the people vote, give them
decision making power, etc. For us, community is curation first.
You know, we do. Round twenty one has a set
of values. We have a set of beliefs. We want
(23:08):
to make sure that we stand for the people and
make standing out the new standard and sport, and we
have an optimistic point of view. We want to be
there bringing people's emotions up and uplifting and all of
that is available in art and sport. But a lot
of art and sport is about like the agony of defeat,
or art has messages about death and destruction. That's not
(23:32):
for us. So we start with what we believe and
then we curate, and we curate particularly like minded artists,
because artists, we believe, are capturing history as it's happening,
since the dawn of time, since before the dawn of time.
So if artists are capturing history as it's happening, they
are bringing their lived experience and their craft information. With
(23:53):
sports because we're giving them that access and reimagining expression
in sports in a new way. That is giving up
all the control to the artists. But because they were curated,
because they aligned to our belief system and our values,
it typically results in something very wonderful and beautiful. I
am trying to build a company where if you took
(24:15):
Jasmine out of the equation, the platform would exist sports teams,
leagues and athletes and independent artists. So I'm happy to
give up the control as long as the infrastructure is
set up the right way.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yeah, you said in an interview Round twenty one believes
that being better is good, but being different is better.
Tell me about that ethos.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
That is from like twenty twenty Your research.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Team really went research team is me exactly? Not always
Alex and meshe do a lot, but that today was
me just digging around.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
I mean, I think I've worked for incredible generation defining
companies that were motivated of requorter to be better. Better
than themselves for sure, and better than others that they
see as competitors, particularly in women's sports. There is enough
room for everybody today. I have no doubt there are
(25:10):
ten multi billion dollar companies that I'm like sitting side
by side with if they want to measure success on money.
What we are operating on is a position of how
do we be different than the establishment? And I learn
a lot from early days, you know, when Apple and
(25:31):
Steve Jobs are kind of being reinvented about how shattering
the status quo is an emotion. It's not necessarily a
functional widget in the phone, but it's an emotion that
you bring people. That is where we start and end
with what we're bringing to people. And we just did
this US Open thing. I was bummed that it didn't
(25:51):
get you product before you went yeah to the US.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
I know, and then I was out of the country,
so I just got home to it and I'm like, well,
after it's over. But I think on green tennis ball
felt bag is cool year round and I will be
using it. I can shop for my honeyduice ingredients to
make it at home using the bag.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
There you go. But like, the tennis world doesn't need
a tennis bag. But what the tennis world we believe
could benefit from is a message of love all and
particularly in this environment. So that's what being different means
versus just being better and making a better leather strap
for a bag. We just don't measure or look at
(26:29):
the world through that lens.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Well, And it makes so much sense when you look
at your products. I mean, I love what you do
and it stands out and you can almost always tell
when you're walking around, oh that looks like it's around
twenty one. Oh that's around twenty one, And especially in
the women's sports space, where thank god, we're past pink
it and shrinket. In fact, we've almost like gone so
far that we can go back. Like when I started,
(26:52):
I didn't want to wear anything pink or sparkly or
girly because I wanted to prove that I was a
real fan. And now we've moved far enough ahead that
you can wear anything mask, feminine, sparkly, glittery, pink, whatever.
And it doesn't mean anything about who you root for
and how you root for them. It just means that
there's a lot of choices now, which is really great.
(27:14):
But your stuff, in particular, I think stands out because
it always screams cool to me. And for such a
long time, there wasn't a cool factor to wrapping women's sports,
not just because society shit on them all the time,
but because the product oftentimes was so infantilized that to
be a grown person wanting to wear it out, you
(27:35):
just kind of felt like it didn't mix with your vibe.
And so to your point, folks who want to go
out and have their clothes be an expression of their
identity now have this choice to do so in a
really cool way. And that's why I think it's so
fun watching the Tunnel fits, watching WNBA All Star everyone
wearing their fits, because you do get to see women's
sports be the cutting edge, women athletes be on the
(27:55):
forefront of fashion in a way we never saw before.
And that comes from a lot of really cool partner
What are some of the partnerships that you're most proud
of that you've done with Round twenty one?
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Oh my gosh, DoorDash and Chase have been incredible partners
And I would never have been able to pick those
two brands out of the hat five years ago. I
would have certainly thought it would have been some fashion
house or maybe another sports brand. But the trust that
those two partners have in Round twenty one's creator, community,
(28:25):
and production value to one create alternative fashion for sport,
but also bridge their brand with the community through women's
sports is unlike anything else I've ever seen in my
career within brand marketing, particularly DoorDash last year and I
had people in my network be like, how did you
(28:46):
do that w logo DoorDash Round twenty one? It was
because of DoorDash. DoorDash was like, probably just want to
be supportive of the growth of the game. We want
to find a way that DoorDash feels like we are
supporting it through merch. We hear merch has a four
billion dollar gap. Can Round twenty one represent that? And
(29:07):
we enlisted Shama Love, who's had an incredible fingerprint on
what Round twenty one's brought to market through her artistry
and this massive WNBA kind of treatment. But DoorDash covered
the cost almost entirely for the community, and they said, Yeah,
the least we can do is help the game grow
on by getting more product out there, and then chase
(29:28):
with the US Open and the PGA Championship basically have
these long time endemic partnerships with mature sports tennis and
golf that have really never had an injection of cultural
capital the way Round twenty one is bringing, and they're
giving us a playground to essentially do what we normally do,
(29:48):
but are bringing the full weight of their brand engine
behind it to make sure that the people within the
sports see it, not just our community. And so I
hope to grow with both of them. But it's been
an incredible amount of trust that's really set those two
partnerships apart.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
What's a dream brand or athlete you want to work with?
Speaker 2 (30:07):
You know, we love all of our athletes equally, but
there is a type of athlete that we want to
work with and you see them, but basically athletes who
have something to say and who aren't afraid to say it.
And we don't mean that to be like cultural injections
of like you know, creating water cooler talk, but to
give to give credit to the collegiate player like she's
(30:30):
she says, my college career is a jumping off point
for what I do in my life. And I think
a lot of athletes know that, and I don't men
and women. A lot of athletes know that. And so
we've partnered, i'd say, most famously with Britney Griner when
she came back from Russia, and you know, Lindsay at
Wasserman essentially was like, you don't make athletes a character
(30:52):
in the round twenty one story. You give them a
platform for their story, and that was so powerful to
me that any athlete that wants to say something and
wants to use our platform to say it through products
and experiences, we're here for it. From a brand partnership perspective,
I would say that there is a crossover culture we're
(31:14):
entering into. I would love to announce that we're about
to do a drop on September twenty seventh with Marseille Martin.
She is the new prototype within Hollywood. She is a
multi highphenitt producer, director, actor, as well as aspiring fashion designer,
and she wants to use our platform to express her
perspective on the WNBA, on players and the fans who
(31:39):
are here for it. So I'd say that is an
example of the crossover culture is available for musicians, for actors,
for people in culture that love what the w stands
for and want to celebrate it. But that one kind
of came true here and you know, we're just about
two weeks away and I can't be I can't be
more excited.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Okay, last two questions were running out of time. I'm
bringing it back full circle. I mentioned five years of
Round twenty one, which means it was a COVID baby.
You mentioned that, and I wonder if you can look
back now reflecting, how does the gift of time or
the gift of change trigger these moments of revelation? And
do you think we can create these moments or only
find them organically.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
I think that it's a combination of both. I think
creating moments is really understanding what you are about and
building from a source of truth. There's a line in
a killer song it's actually background vocals, and the line
is time, truth, heart, and I believe that those three
(32:43):
characteristics are in a way in our control. Time is
obviously patients, but there has to be a set amount
of time for greatness to happen, and so giving I
guess a mental hack is like understanding that the plants
you're seeding now may not farther down the road. Truth
is putting it all in on the thing that you
(33:05):
believe or that you do and not really holding anything back.
And heart is, you know, making sure that you're doing
it at full capacity. I think a lot of people
think they're working hard, they're not. A lot of people
think that they've exhausted all options. We haven't, and so
being you know, truly committed to it and making sure
(33:27):
you surround yourself as well with the people that support
it is incredibly important. And then I think they talk
about in business, particularly entrepreneurship and startups, is that there
has to be typically there has to be some sort
of external inflection point, whether it was you know, the
GPS on a phone and Uber, or for us, it's
the growth of the women's game in many pockets and
(33:50):
around the world hitting when round twenty one is is
you know, becoming and coming into formation of I think,
who we're going to become and hitting another level. We
couldn't have predicted that, we couldn't have created that, but
that has to be present for us to reach our
highest form of potential, and so we are benefiting from
that time timing and that I think is the luck
(34:11):
part of it well.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
And I think they also call it lightning bolt moments
when people change major habits, and they say that those
are very hard to create. They almost always have to
happen organically, whether that's a critical diagnosis in your health
or you move to a new city and it completely
changes what's around you and that changes your habit. Like
it's very hard to intentionally do that, but after talking
(34:34):
to so many people and reading so much about what
people did to change their lives and to follow their
passions during COVID because there was that stop, it does
feel like, if anything, we should at least try to
microdose that feeling. We can't stop everything again, and thank
god we won't have to hopefully knock on wood, but
we can take a lesson from the fact that when
we all slow down all of a sudden, so many
(34:56):
people were like, wait, I don't even like what I'm doing,
This isn't even what I want to be. What do
I actually want to do? And how do I want
to spend my time? And it birthed so many amazing
things like round twenty one. Okay, last question for you.
You mentioned that you wanted to be the best at everything,
and part of that came from insecurity, so not wanting
to be maybe a lawyer or doctor because it didn't
come naturally. For those who think, wow, I could never
(35:18):
leave the corporate world and found my own thing and
not be terrified, do you still have the insecurity of
I have to be the best, or I shouldn't try
or do something, or have you found that creating this
company has let you understand better the risk reward, of
the potential for failure, of dreaming bigger, of taking a
bigger risk than maybe you thought you could before.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I've definitely started to let it go. I think the
insecurity fear of failure is ego. I think ego is
a big piece of me not wanting to seem like
I don't have the answer that I'm not going to succeed,
And thank goodness, because of time and maybe because of
truth and heart, because we've been doing it. Literally, I
(36:00):
can't give any more, Like I literally cannot give any more.
If it fails, then I've left it all on the court.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
You know.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
I feel very satisfied in that. I also benefited from
watching two founder led companies at companies I've worked for
tie their personal identity to their company, and I decided
day zero, I wasn't going to do that. My identity
is who I am as an aunt to my niece Isabella,
as a sister to my brother, as a child to
(36:29):
my parents, to my friend's network, and so I think
by decoupling that, luckily, I'm sparing any feeling that if
this doesn't go where I need it to go that
I personally somehow have failed. So I've definitely evolved and
I think that's a good sign too as we all
grow into new spaces. But it's not something I planned
(36:50):
on doing, but it did happen naturally.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
You are just a couple years older than me, and
I am fingers crossed that when I get a couple
years older, I'll get to that moment that you're at.
I'm still struggle with a lot of that stuff, and
the older women I speak to always say bigger risks,
be willing to fail. I really, I really struggle with that.
I think you're right. It as a little ego of like,
I've got d answers and if I don't, I'm not
going to try it because that I'll be proven that
I can't do it.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Sarah, if there's one person in media I don't even
know how you define yourself that should take great comfort
in path owned direction mine and if all hell breaks loose,
who can It's you? I mean you have established an
accessibility and a very i'd say credibility in everything you
(37:35):
speak about that. I think accessibility incredibly. I don't know
what you put your brand values on, but those are
two big Time brand values that I see you live
every single.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Day, so that's really nice of you to say. It
was so great to talk to you. It's so great
to wear your stuff. Whenever I look at what other
people wear it, I go, I guess I should wear that.
I'm not cool enough to know that it's cool. And
then I wear it and everyone's like, oh, I love
where you're wearing my oathings. I'm only wearing it because
round twenty one said it was cool. But thank you
so much for coming on.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
It was great to catch up you too, Thanks for
the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Thanks again to Jasmine for hanging out with us. We
got to take another break when we come back. Girls Rule,
Boys Drule and other T shirts we can blessedly leave
behind welcome back slices. We love that you're listening, but
we want you to get in the game every day too,
(38:27):
So here's our good gameplay of the day. We want
to hear about your favorite old women's sports merch. Do
you remember the first women's sports related T shirt you bought,
or that moment the WNBA jersey ordered seven months earlier
finally arrived in the mail. We want to hear about it.
How about you too, Alex Mesh, do you have memories
of this?
Speaker 4 (38:46):
The first thing that comes to mind from my personal
athletic career is a T shirt my parents bought me
from a middle school hockey tournament that said hockey is
for girls and don't you forget it in all cabs
and pink and purple writing of course instant classic.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Yeah, you still have it too. I love that I
do still have it.
Speaker 4 (39:04):
I also want to shout out my friend Brie, who
famously wears her two thousand and four Aiming for Athens
softball shirt. And when she got it in middle school,
it was huge on her and now it is the
perfect size.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
First U cure so cute meish? What about you? Oof?
Speaker 3 (39:22):
I have this ancient Christy Tolliver University of Maryland, Jersey.
And by ancient, of course, I mean circa two thousand
and six, because I am indeed.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Oh, in the two thousands is not ancient. Yeah, it's
ancient to me, baby. I'll show you something ancient, but.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
That's knocking around somewhere in the back of my closet.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
I loved that jersey.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
It was hung up on my wall all sorts of
stills of Christie in competition too.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
I was obsessed. I was so obsessed. If you want
to talk about ancient I have stuff in my closet
that used to be in style, went all the way
out of style, and it's now back in style. That
in my closet and I'm like, wait, this is beck
it again. Yes, honestly, I can't remember any early women's
sports merch. When I was coming up, it was just
Jordan all the time. I had the best MJ shirt
(40:14):
that just had his face on the front and it
said why Drive And on the back it had just
his legs and it said when you can fly? And
I wore it before every single basketball and track meet
for all of junior and senior year and all of
college until I eventually had to cut the sleeves off. Y'all,
remember those shirts that you love so much? You had
to cut the sleeves off because they got real gross.
That's it. I just just Jordan Gear, just Jordan Gear
(40:36):
as a kid, forever and ever and still. If you
remember yours, hit us up on email good game at
Wondermedia network dot com, or leave us a voicemail at
eight seven two two four fifty seventy and don't forget
to subscribe, rate and review. It's easy watch the end
of Pinke and shrinket rating zero out of zero, ugly
ass t shirts with Yankee logos and our closets review.
(41:01):
Thank goodness for round twenty one play a Society, Breaking
Tea and all the other creators giving us that good
merch so we can proudly fashionably rep our favorite squads
and players. If you like pink Rocket, if you like
sparkles and sequins, rock them. Now that we have enough
options to wear anything and everything, we can actually choose
(41:22):
to lean into our super fem sides sometimes and not
feel like wannabes are day ones. And when we want
to rock a big ass double XL jersey and track pants,
we're going to pull that off too. And when we
want to wear good game with syrh Spain merch, we
go to Breaking Tea dot Com slash bin. Yeah yeah,
nice plug. Now it's your turn, rate and review. Thanks
for listening, See you tomorrow. Good game, Jasmine in round
(41:44):
twenty one, Good Game. Finding a way to stay in sports,
even if it means changing your whole career path. Q
taxes not you know the actual concept of taxing individuals
to improve in support society. That's fine, I guess, but
the process of learning the rules and filling out all
the forms that can go ahead and kick rocks. Good
(42:07):
Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports production
in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can
find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network, our
producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive producers
are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutterer.
(42:28):
Our editors are Emily Rutter, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and
Gianna Palmer. Our associate producer is Lucy Jones. Production assistants
from Avery Loftus and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain
Host
Sarah Spain
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