March 12, 2025 • 39 mins
Moolah Kicks founder and CEO Natalie White joins Sarah to discuss why (and how!) she created and launched a footwear brand in her 20s, why cold emailing Mark Cuban paid off for her (and might pay off for you, too!), and what she learned from surveying women and girls about what they wanted out of a basketball shoe.
-
Check out the Moolah apparel Natalie mentioned here
-
Leave us a voicemail at 872-204-5070 or send us a note at goodgame@wondermedianetwork.com
-
Follow Sarah on social! Bluesky: @sarahspain.com Instagram: @Spain2323
-
Follow producer Misha Jones! Bluesky: @mishthejrnalist.bsky.social Instagram: @mishthejrnalist
-
Follow producer Alex Azzi! Bluesky: @byalexazzi.bsky.social
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're booking
ophthalmologist appointments asap. Hopping from screen to screen and sports
game to sports game is definitely frying our eyeballs, but
we won't be quitting anytime soon. It's Wednesday, March twelfth,
and on today's show, we'll be diving right into my
conversation with Moulach Kicks founder and CEO Natalie White. We
dished about how she started a footwear brand from scratch
(00:23):
in her twenties while other brands aren't really making basketball
shoes for women's feet, getting players like Courtney Williams to
Rock Moolahs and cold emailing Mark Cuban. It's all coming
up right after this joining us now. She's the founder
(00:46):
and CEO of Moolah Kicks, the only brand exclusively committed
to creating performance footwear for the women's hoops game. She's
a former Forbes thirty Under thirty, ONOREE Sports Business Journals,
thirty Voices Under thirty and twenty twenty four Front Offices,
Rise twenty five Class of twenty twenty three, and one
of Adwek's twenty twenty three Champions of Change. She is
still a child. It's Natalie White. What's up. Natalie.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Hi, Sarah, nice to be here. Thank you for that intro.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
I'm seriously shook because I just mentioned that you are
still capable of making thirty under thirty lists as of
you know, last year. You're very young. You're very young,
and you're already doing such amazing, incredible things. So first
of all, I'm going to try not to get intimidated
by somehow you putting together this massive company at such
a young age. And more importantly, I want to really
(01:34):
get into how it started, how this mulach Kicks journey started.
So let's go way back to your growing up and hooping,
I assume, and that being the impetus for you realizing
that there was a space in the industry.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Absolutely so. I grew up in New York City and
I played on almost every team you can imagine. I've
played for New Heights, i played for Team Prints, which
is now Exodus, I played for my high school, and
I still play in Dykeman and Rucker and all of
the women's street ball leagues. And I played in almost
(02:06):
every sneaker that you can imagine as well. And when
I went to college. I went to Boston College where
I studied finance. I played on the club team, and
I managed the varsity team, so I can I can
rebound okay and get water and watch jerseys like Noah.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Set and Drill.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Absolutely watched them off the floor. And when I was
picking out my shoes for my senior season, I saw
an ad that had four WNBA players holding out and
promoting the sneakers that they were on court, which were
all named after someone else, so it said Super Kyrie four,
(02:45):
Diana Torossi, Lebron twelve, and two other players. And I
remember seeing that ad and thinking, what is the message
for the next generation. It's that you can be the
absolute best in this game, best in the WNBA, and
you will still be wearing and promoting sneakers named after
(03:06):
someone else. And when you look into the issue, it's
clear that not only does it have a social implication,
but a performance one as well, because the female footform
differs in four key places in the male foot form five,
including the ankle, and when we, as female hoopers are
wearing men's children's unisex sneakers, we're actually more at risk
(03:29):
for the knee, ankle and leg injuries that are so
common in women's basketball, and so I saw that one
to punch and really, without any hesitation, created Moolah to
be the first and only brand that is focused specifically
on women's basketball where every single thing we do is
to elevate, see and celebrate female hoopers. And it starts
(03:53):
with premium performance equipment, footwear fit for her.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Okay, there is so much in there. I want to
get back to that moment where you see a need
and you obviously you have a finance background, you went
to a great college, You're a smart person, so you
recognize the need and that there's a space to fill.
You still have to create something from scratch. That means funding,
That means design, that means marketing, that means brand creation, trademarks, copyright,
(04:23):
advertising awareness. Like it is a massive deal to try
to break into a market that has really established top
performers like Nike, Rebok, Adidas as it's all these brands
that we already know, right, So where do you start?
Do you start with the funding? Do you start with
a pitch and an idea?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I would say, Sarah, that idea, what I just shared
with you is the easiest part.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
You know right, knowing that we're missing something is easy.
Fixing it is what we've been working on for literally
decades in the women's sportspace.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, but the easy part is the idea, is the
founding story. The hard part is making it happen. What
you've said and so you I thought, But when I
started it, I knew nothing about footwear, right, I didn't
have I mean, it's crazy, I'd have no background, you know,
that was my intro. It's like, I'm still very young.
So we are absolutely figuring everything out as we go.
(05:13):
And the beauty of that is that we get to
have our core consumer, the women's basketball player, the girls'
basketball players, drive all of our decisions. And the first,
the very first step in the process, I thought it
was funding. When I was a senior in college, I
went out for funding. Every single person told me no,
(05:34):
fifty one hundred. I can't even tell you the number
of accelerators I applied to people I pitched who said,
if this was a real market brand, Nike would have
already been doing it on German would have already been
doing it, because at the time, no one was. And
so that fueled me, Like I said, you know what,
(05:54):
we're going to do it with nothing, and we ended
up doing just that, bootstrapped it for two years. Who's
we at that time it was me. I was a
solo founder for two years, and now we've brought on
a great team that has transformed for the business. But
when I first started, it was just me, and I
do say we because I had so much help from
the women's team at Boston College and a lot of
(06:17):
the players in the ACC and all the players who
I grew up playing with. They helped. They worked on
Moolah with me for free, just because they believed in
what we're doing. And the first step in the process
was creating that inner form, which is called the last
and is responsible for the fit of the shoe. So
when we say fit for female ballers, it doesn't really
(06:40):
mean anything to the consumer. What means something is when
you say these shoes take no time to break in.
They're ready right out of the box. And what's responsible
for that is the inner fit. And what's responsible for
the inner fit is a form called the last spelled LASP,
and it's essentially a mold of way which all materials
(07:01):
are pulled around in the sneaker creation process and then
the very final step is that mold is removed, whether
it's a high heel, a boot, or a sneaker. And
so our mold was the first thing we needed to
create with pediatrists, orthopedic surgeons, and the top last company
in the world, Jones and Vining, And so essentially the
(07:22):
way we created that form was I called and interviewed
as many experts as I could find, podiatrist, whoever else
I just mentioned. I surveyed every girls basketball player I
could get a hold of, varsity players in the ACC,
the entire club circuit, walked around with a Google survey,
(07:44):
I mean just really vootscap standing outside of CONTI Forum
and pulling all the high school girls that walked in.
What do you like, what don't you like? What fits,
what doesn't. And then compiled all that research and made
that first form, sampled against it and start testing it
with the Boston College team where they had one of
their old sneakers on and one of our new Mulah prototypes,
(08:08):
and we ran them through practices and drills where they
would comment on the fit. And so in time we
just started small changes improvements to that form, until finally
we had a form that when folks put our shoes on,
they had they're ready right out of the box with
no break in time. And that was the first step
(08:29):
you mentioned.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
You know, less than ten percent of the basketball shoes
that are offered, including some W signature shoes, are designed
for the female foot form. It seems like a no
brainer to make women's shoes for women. And if the
process for all shoes is to have a last and
a mold, why doesn't it Why isn't it more common
to use the women's foot form for women's shoes?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Cost it's the tooling costs are really expensive, and the
big brands save money when they make everything for men
and market men's stuff for women.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
So if you went to any of the major brands
and you bought a women's shoe, it's women's in sense
of more the exterior shape than the interior form.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
For a lot of them.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yes, okay, interesting, So okay, I got to go back
still because you're acting like it's a normal thing for
a college senior to know about, you know, trying to
get into accelerator labs or trying to get Bundy. Like
obviously you have this entrepreneurial spirit and this business sense
where does that come from?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I don't know. I think you know. When I was
a real young kid, I used to always be thinking
about ways to make money. And I grew up in
New York and there used to even when I was
in fifth grade, there used to be a popular toy
called a miyachi. I don't know if you've ever heard
of it. It's like a hackey sack on your hands.
And I remember my family went to the beach one
(09:56):
summer and I bought wholesale one hundred the achis and
I tried to I went outside of a toy store
on the boardwalk and I played with them, trying to
bring that toy into trying to sell it to kids
like on the boardwalk. And so I think a part
of it I've always had and I a hustler, yeah,
(10:17):
and be an entrepreneur. I think is a lot like
being a manager for the basketball team, because it means
you want to be a support player and you care
more about the mission than what you're doing. I'm fine
getting the water. I want to support the players and
be a service person to our greater mission, which is
(10:40):
to elevate women's basketball.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
But you still need funding to do the things like
creating prototypes to put on players and have them test
them out and tell you what, yeah they like, what
they don't like. Before you're going to make a whole
bunch of shoes and try to get them in stores
and sell them, you still need a certain amount of
funding to get started. Where did that come from?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I did investment banking internship at HSBC and made twenty
five thousand dollars in one summer.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Work paid internship, paid internship. We love those.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
And then also for COVID, because I was in the
class of twenty twenty, we got a housing reimbursement from
when we got kicked out of the dorms and that
was about It was a food and housing reimbursement for
about eight thousand dollars. So I took the twenty five
thousand I made over the summer and the eight thousand
reimbursement and I used that thirty three thousand dollars and
(11:32):
invested every penny of that, which was all I had,
into those things that you do need to pay for,
right like the actual mold and the designs and the
sampling expenses. And then when we were ready, we came
out with a pre sale campaign in May of twenty
twenty one. So it took all you know, over a
(11:53):
year of sampling and working on this one hundred hours
a week full time with really no reward. And I
was blessed enough to live with my parents during that
time and they supported me with food and a bed,
and I was able to come out with a pre
sale campaign in twenty twenty one where we sold thirty
(12:13):
thousand dollars worth of products in only a few weeks.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
And that's not like a Kickstarter style, but it is
in the sense of they will order it before you'll
make it, and you'll know that that order is in
before you produce, so that you don't have stock laying
around that you then have to unload.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Exactly. It was basically a Kickstarter, except for we didn't
do it on the Kickstarter platform because they take ten
percent of yourself, right right, right right.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
I have to ask when you were playing AAU and
growing up, did you have a go to shoe or
did you just play with like did you bounce around?
Speaker 2 (12:42):
I bounced around?
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Yeah, yeah. Interesting. I had to always get the kind
with like the highest possible ankle, and then I had
to wear full like air cast ankle braces, which nobody
wears anymore. I feel like they've updated the technology, but
I had such bad ankles that I was like constantly
like all the way halfway up my frickin' My producer
is just writing in the script air cast. Ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha. Yeah, mesh, I'm oldest we've
(13:06):
been over this. I have no idea what the folks
are wearing now. I'm sure it's a million times better,
but that's literally what I had to suit up with
every freakid game. We got to take a quick break
more with Natalie White when we come back. You've got
(13:30):
this idea, You've sold the first batch of them. Now
you start being sort of strategic. When did you go
to Mark Cuban? Was that before or after the Dicks
Sporting Goods relationship?
Speaker 2 (13:40):
This is a crazy tidnit that needs to be shared.
So thirty thousand dollars of sales is a drop in
the bucket for what you need to produce commercial footwear.
Because to get into a top factory where our sneakers
were produced the first run, you need thousands of sneakers,
and thirty thousand dollars is hundreds, right, not thousands? So
(14:04):
including tooling costs and everything.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Else, explain tooling costs.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Tooling costs are essentially the cost to cut steel molds
for every half size of a mid soul and an outsol,
got it, And those run a couple of hundreds of
thousands of dollars.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Okay, all right, so take us to the factory. How
do you get these hundreds made when they're not thousands.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah. At the same time as that pre sale was happening,
there was a Good Morning America segment where the CEO
of Dick's Sporting Goods was talking about the commitment that
Dix has not only to women's sports, but in particular
to women's basketball. And I remember seeing that segment and thinking,
(14:45):
oh my god, they have everything except for sneakers fit
for her. They would love this. And I saw that segment,
and at the same time we had had a pr blast.
We were in the Boston Globe Sneaker Freaker overtime. A
ton of people were promoting our pre launch, essentially because
(15:08):
they knew me and knew Mulan what we're doing. We're
excited by it. And in the Boston Globe, a man
an industry expert named Matt Powell was quoted, and I
saw on LinkedIn that he was connected to Lauren Hobart,
the CEO of Dick's Boarding Goods, and so I reached
out to Matt after seeing the Good Morning America segment
and said, Hi, Matt, here's the segment I saw about
(15:31):
Dix and their commitment to women's basketball. Here's the Mulah brand.
Would you please connect me with her. Here's the exact
email ad right, here's the presentation I'm ready to give.
I'm ready to give that in two minutes or six
hours if I need to drive to Pittsburgh.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Amazing, And he.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Said, oh my gosh, you know, if you're gutsy enough
to ask me for that, then yes. And so I
connected with her and immediately she got right back to me,
and she connected me with their head of soft lines
and they're head of footwear, and I pitched in during
June of twenty twenty one. They loved it and they
said how soon can you get it here? And, of course,
(16:11):
not knowing much, I said, well, I can get it
there for basketball season and they said, okay, basketball season. Wow,
you'd be the fastest company.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Uh oh, not a great sign to ever deliver.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
To us and the smallest in size, meaning like I
was only one person at the time, and I said, yup,
we can do it. And they said, okay, we're going
to put it into one hundred and forty stores and
make the first ever women's basketball section with this. Then amazing,
and I said, let's do it. And at that time
I negotiated payment terms so that we had healthy receivable
(16:48):
terms with Dicks. Then went out and pitched to a
ton of the top factories overseas who I knew through
a few footwear connections that I had made through the
of the year and a half, and eventually pitched to
a group out in Dongnai, Vietnam, Wa Sung who created
sixty million pair of year for Adidas, Hoka, All Birds
(17:12):
and big big performance brands. I pitched to them. They
loved it, and they took us immediately and expedited all
of our production.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
They had even the management team was carting around our
uppers which is like the sewn in part two different
factory lines to make sure that they got done in time.
We made sure that our receivables covered our payables, and
then at that point went out and pitched investors just
to get the funds to get the goods through the border.
(17:47):
That was the only funds we needed to raise was
to cover the air freight and the customs. And so
went out and cold emailed Mark Cuban, because yeah, when
you don't know what you're what, who to go to?
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Right?
Speaker 2 (18:01):
And so I reached out to him with a cold email.
It's in his bio on LinkedIn, and he ended up
investing along with the consortium of a few other investors,
and we were able to get all of our goods
across in a safe way to exporting goods on time,
and we created the first ever women's basketball section in
(18:22):
one hundred and forty stores.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
That's incredible. Mark Cuban is. I don't want to encourage
a whole bunch of people to bug the hell out
of him, but I cold emailed him via Facebook about
the Cubs once and now we're friends as the results
of that, So he does get back to folks. He's
more accessible than you'd imagine for a multi billionaire. Okay,
so now you're in Dick's Sporting Goods, you're a one
hundred and forty stores. Now you've got a partnership with
(18:46):
them where they financially backed the brand through their DSG
Ventures investment fund. I still need to understand why they believed.
You're obviously very compelling, very smart. The idea is a
good one, but footwear is so specific and people I
would imagine if you did the research on it, it
is one of the items that people are most likely
(19:07):
to buy the brands they already know, and least likely
to go outside of existing brands. That's just a guess
for me. So how do you convince people that they're
good shoes, that they're not going to get injured, that
they're gonna make them play well, that they look good
in them, that they want to wear? Like, how are
you convincing Mark Cuban or Dix or even your partnership
(19:27):
with Stanley Mugs, which we'll get to later. How do
you convince them that it's a viable product that will work,
that won't have the wear and tear that people will
be mad about all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
The first step is putting them on. I mean, if
I were with you today, Sarah, I would have brought
a couple of pairs to make sure you put a
pair on, because the second you actually put our shoes on,
all those questions go away. You can tell it's a
quality product, and the second you stand up and take
a couple steps, you say, oh my god, I understand
what it means to not have any break in time.
(20:01):
So that's the first thing, is your product has to
be there.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
And is the break in time? So I remember I
was watching the videos. Courtney Williams, one of your players,
talked about how she loves the idea that she can
put on a new pair every game and doesn't have
to break them in. Why is that? Is that because
the form is made for her foot? Or is that
because of some proprietary technology that like other shoe companies
aren't doing for whatever reason.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
That's both are true. It is our female foot form
that we developed and it's that no other company has done.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Is it cost Again, that's the same, is what we
went back to. It's the tooling costs. It's just been
historically cheaper for them to make men's male fit products
and market it to women.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
But the same with the break in because the break
in is not specific to gender, right, that's just the
way the shoe is made.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
That's something that we as female basketball players experience ten
fold because the equipment isn't made for us.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
It's like during a.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Mouthguard, so they're related.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
It's the fact that it's made for you already, so
you don't have to break it in to match your
form because it was already built for you.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Exactly got it okay, all right?
Speaker 1 (21:07):
So people can tell by looking at the shoe, the
product putting it on, they understand the value. What's your
pitch to them about why someone would want to get
Moulah Kicks instead of going with the Sabrina and Escuz
or the other ones that they've heard about that they've
seen on the players they love.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Okay, first performance, our performance, the feeling is like no other.
And then second, it's on brand and it's on elevating
women's basketball. And we are the only specialists in this space.
We're the only company that puts women's first and the
(21:43):
only company who doesn't address women's basketball as a sub
sector of men's basketball or basketball in general. We address
women's basketball as its own sport because we love it
and are excited to be a part of this explosive growth.
And so when people buy Moolah, they know that not
only are they elevating their performance on court, but Also,
(22:06):
they're contributing to a brighter future of women's basketball because
every single dollar we earn goes back into that sport
and our players, not baseball and lifestyle and football and
everything else. Now, this is all we do. It's like
Lulemon or Patagonia. It's a specialist brand specifically for women's hoops.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Okay, So I want to get to that name that
you mentioned, so Moolah Kicks and the tagline by and
for female ballers. As someone who has been on the
back end of sports and technology app development, I have
been there for every step of what's the name, what's
the tagline, copyright, trademark, visuals, logo, colors, all of that.
(22:54):
And that's for an app where it's not something you're
wearing and walking around in every day. So I understand
the value and the difficulty in making all those decisions.
Did you outsource? Did you hire designers and folks that
you really trusted? How did you decide where to go
for the visuals of this? Because that's really important. You
could tell someone that the shoes are great and they
perform well, and that they stand for the right thing,
(23:16):
and if they're ugly, no one's rocking them absolutely.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
It's piece by piece. So when the company was first started,
the Mulah logo, it was this gold bar with the
words kind of imprinted in the logo, and that was
made in a Boston in the Boston College library by
me on illustrator.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
How'd you come up with moolah?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
So mulah slang for money, yep. And the slang aspect
is a nod to the street culture of women's basketball,
the Dykman, the West Fourth and the energy in that game.
And then the money aspect signifies the financial opportunity that
this brand is creating for female hoopers.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Got it okay?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
And so the first logo was everything step wise. I
think it's okay that you don't. You don't start out
in six hundred and thirty stores. You don't start out
with a clean logo and the look that we have now.
You start out the only way you know how okay,
you put it. You put it on the computer at
Boston College. Because that's the best you can do, and
it's all you know how to do. And so we
(24:17):
went with that for a while, and then in twenty
twenty two we had expanded our footprint from one hundred
and forty stores into four hundred and fifty, and so
you're right, we could no longer get by off of
the old creative and some of the really scrappy looks
because the brand continues to elevate and elevate. So at
that point, we partnered with Elizabeth McGarry and McGarry and
(24:41):
Sons to do a deep dive on what really speaks
to our women's basketball community, our high school and middle
school players, and we refresh the entire brand and all
of the creative to be centered around these two ideals.
One is Moolah as media and that's kind of this
holly with flavor. That shows what Moolah is doing as
(25:03):
a brand. We are elevating and it's like becoming that
tabloid feel. And then the other pillar is polarities and dualities,
and that shows that the Moolah brand is for everyone
in women's basketball. And how we demonstrate that is we
show the very different expressions that women's basketball has his home.
(25:29):
So many brands go down the middle with their marketing
for women's basketball, and we like to show all angles.
So this is for Courtney Williams who plays in the WNBA,
and this brand is also for the CIO first grader
who plays in the basement of her church, right Like,
this brand is for both and for everyone in between.
(25:52):
And so that's really the message that our new branding conveys.
But it didn't start there.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Okay, So it's a branding that's growing over time. But
in the meantime, you're being very intentional about the partnerships
and the development where people can find it, how they
could buy it, who they connected to, And that partnership
with Stanley actually came about through the Dick's partnership. Can
you tell me about that? It's very organic.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Stanley has had an incredible two years, no question, and
we saw the way that they were capturing kind of
the hearts of a lot of our core consumers. We
saw a big shift where a lot of girls' basketball
players actually had Stanley's below the bench last year. And
it just so happened that the CEO of Stanley was
(26:39):
walking through a Dick's fording Goods and looked at Moulah
and said, oh my god, what is this brand? How
are they commanding this much space essentially and excitement in
the footwear section? And they explained Moolah to them everything
that we stand for everything that we're doing, how well
received our products have been. And he shot an email saying,
(27:02):
let's do something the first of its kind. Coo, Hey,
first of its kind Stanley that has a matching sneaker,
And so we collaborated to come out with a first
ever footwear Stanley collad that was available in six hundred
and thirty stores and immediately when it hit the shells,
it started beating expectations.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Cool. How'd you end up partnering with Courtney Williams? How
did you build relationships with players and convince you know,
top level hoopers to commit to wearing shoes from a
lesser known brand instead of the go tos.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yeah, the first athletes were all people who helped shape
the brand, who we knew. So that's the beauty of
starting something when you're from the women's basketball community and
when you're young, like I just graduated BC one year
before they started testing the shoes on that court, and
(27:54):
so we knew everyone in the ACC one connection away
and this was right at the time, nil And at
that point, all it took was a text saying, Hey,
can I send you a pair of sneakers and can
you post on your Instagram and everyone did for free
Sarah because the women's basketball community loves it. Like I
think when you tried the sneaker on, when you hear
(28:16):
what the brand is doing and you hear our story,
people need no more convincing. You know, a lot of brands,
they have their own platform and what they stand for,
and so athletes need to be paid to promote their message.
And what Moulah is doing is we're here to support
the athlete's message. We're here to celebrate women's basketball, and
we actually want to build a platform for them rather
(28:39):
than the other way around. And so when people try
the shoe and hear that, we have had nothing but
good responses. And it started back when the brand first
launched with getting all of the ACC players, all the
players that I knew on board with it and posting,
and it grew from there and with Courtney, we met
actually through a spot with bleacher Report up at the
(29:03):
Connecticut Sun and bleacher Report said we're going to do
an unboxing as part of this series and we're gonna
do it with a WNBA player and I said, this
is amazing, We're excited for it, and they said, okay,
you know, we kind of pitched for this spot, and
they said, well, she's gonna unbox it cold right there
on the spot. And so Courtney and I met on
(29:26):
set live when she was unboxing this pair of Moulaws
and she tried them on for the first time on
a live segment and she loved them from there and
she loved the brand, and we signed her right away
and it's been a great partnership ever since.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
What's been the biggest challenge for you in making this
company happen.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
I have to say, Sarah, there's challenges big and small,
like every single week. I think one thing off the
top is you mentioned that you're knowledgeable and all of
the spaces about logos and branding and the rights to everything,
and I think every single part of the company is
like that. That there's nuance in all of the things
(30:11):
that people aren't thinking about in krgo insurance, in free
in delivery, in quality control at the manufacturer, in selling terms,
in marketing. I mean you could go dizzy with how
deep you can go in every single area of the business.
And so I would say one of the biggest macro
(30:31):
challenges is our time is limited, and how deep do
we go in every single section of the business at
what given time, and that changes through the years. There's
always a balance of time, money and resources and what
we want to be investing in.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
How big is your team now?
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Our team is five full time.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
That's insane, nothing.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
And we're doing crazy, you know, well over seven figures
of revenue.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Yeah, as being a woman in her twenties ever felt
like a bare whether it's folks not taking you seriously
or trying to take advantage.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
It's a hard one because I think it's also what
makes this business so special, you know, I mean, you
can't this is who you are and you have to
own it. And so it's been really well received. This
is what it means to be buying for female ballers,
and I don't think that. I think there's definitely challenges
to it, but there's also so many benefits to being
(31:29):
from the women's basketball community and making a brand and
a product that serves your same community. So I would
say there have certainly been challenges as it relates to
literally any area of the business, whether that's funding or
part of anything. But there's also just as many benefits
to also being able to text players and saying, hey,
(31:50):
would you mind posting.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
This yeah, for sure, the connections and relationship. I think
for me, I guess part of it is you seem
like you're so knowledgeable about all aspects of it. I
would feel like I would be concerned, like that the
deal I was getting was too good to be true,
or that I was getting taken advantage for there was
something I didn't know about the business that the other
person on the other side negotiating does, and that they're
pulling one over on me. And I wonder if you've
(32:13):
had any moments I think for people listening, especially who
are like, holy shit, how is this still under thirty
person pulling all this off? Like have you made a mistake?
Have you had a moment where you're like, oh, I
wasted a ton of money on that whoops a daisy,
Or I said the wrong deal for this and I
should I could have made a lot more.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Again, it's like pick your day. You know, I've made
more mistakes than anyone else. I can't even tell you.
But I think at the time, you always do what
you feel like is the best decision, and you have
to operate with the tools and the knowledge that you
have at hand, and you can't look back, And so
I wouldn't classify any of them as mistakes. I mean,
(32:51):
even look at our old branding right or our first
shoe that came out. It's like we're a completely different
company than what we were. I mean, night and day
really like unrecognizable, and we're developing in front of everyone
and in front of the world, and that's a challenge
in of itself. But I wouldn't say anything that we
(33:13):
did then was a mistake because we were operating one
hundred and ten percent. I've always given this business like
every ounce that I have, and that's.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
All you can really do, you know, in a moment, Yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
No one's looking to pull one over. I don't think
on you. I think that all of the approaches we've
taken are ones of incredible gratitude and service to our partners,
and I think when you do that, people want to
reciprocate it. And I've noticed that in a lot of conversations.
I think entrepreneurs go into it with that angle, Sarah,
(33:49):
like they really do think, Okay, everyone's trying to get
the better deal, and I like to let other people
have the better deal. We'd like you to have the
better deal because you're taking a shot on us. So
take all the take all the margin, take all the
costs you want. Like that's how it started, is I
made no money personally for like four years. The company
(34:11):
didn't make much, and we just wanted to give our
partners the most benefit we could because you were grateful,
and in turn they have had our back when things went.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, I just learned this last week and I'm stealing it.
It's not win or lose, its win or learn. So
if you just if you just make every single loss
or mistake a learning opportunity, then you can always reframe
it and move forward more positively. There are some big
picture things in the footboor world that you're going to
have to deal with that are not going to be
(34:41):
maybe as easy to put a spin on, like whether
it's workplace issues in the shoe industry, factory issues, like
have you ever had to make a decision where you
really are questioning your own beliefs and your optimism about
the business versus the reality of trying to create products
at a reasonable cost that people are willing to spend.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Not yet, and they will come absolutely, but at this
point we haven't come to that scale yet where we're
faced with any of the macro issues, but we are
also seeing of course we're affected by it. Right we
have tariffs that are getting pasked. That's going to be
affecting the business. There's a ton of macro issues that
(35:25):
are affecting us today, but so far, we haven't we
haven't had to compromise, absolutely not any of our beliefs
for what we're doing.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
I hope you get to stay this optimistic. And I
am not a cynical person, even in the slightest I'm
just so much older than you that at this point
I'm like, oh, there are plenty of people looking to
screw you over and trying to get one over on you.
But hopefully you will continue to find the partners and
the people to work with that want this sort of
mutually beneficial relationship that have your back because they know
that you have theirs. That's the best case scenario. What's
(35:57):
next for the brand? I know you got into some apparel.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
We just launched some apparel. We have a new launch
dropping on May fifteenth that we're excited about. That'll be
our summer collection. And then we're just continuing to we
want to continue to grow how we have that because
if we keep doing that. If our players keep being
excited about the shoes that we're serving up and the
way that the brand is moving, I think it'll be
(36:22):
continue to be a good couple of years ahead of us.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Well, I cannot tell you how impressed. I am, just
blown away, so incredible. You were at a conference I
was at, or I think it was Upfronts in New York,
and we didn't get a chance to speak, but I
know the shoes were there and I checked them out.
They look pretty badass, but just such a cool thing
to see an opportunity and try to fill it, try
to fix it. So continued. Good luck to you, and
(36:45):
thanks so much for giving us some time.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Thank you, Sarah.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
We have to take another break when we come back.
Sometimes you just gotta let it out. Welcome back, Slices.
We love that you're listening, but we want you to
get in the game every day too. So here's our
good game play of the day. Go check out Moolah's offerings,
(37:10):
especially if you're a hooper. We're going to be trying
out the shoes for ourselves. I don't know, they might
become producer mishes go to for summer pickup games. We
love to hear from you, so hit us up on email,
good game at wondermediaetwork dot com, or leave us a
voicemail at eight seven two two oh four fifty seventy,
and don't forget to subscribe. Rate and review, y'all. It's easy.
Watch laughing, singing, screaming, dancing, or crying it out. Rating
(37:36):
ten out of ten. Damn I feel better review you
know slices. There are a lot of things happening in
our world, and finding a balance between taking in information
and not overwhelming yourself can be super difficult. For some,
it can even result in a kind of I don't know,
emotional constipation. You see all the things happening and you
(37:57):
just don't know what to do except internalize. And sometimes
talking through what's bothering you just isn't enough. Sometimes we
need like a reset, some emotional prune juice. If you
will next time you're feeling emotionally constipated, watch one of
those try not to laugh videos, or find a well
insulated room and scream, reel loud, or put on a
(38:17):
song you really love and just dance around. If you
got the space and you won't bother anyone, belt out
the song too, and if it's a sad song or
the spirit moves you, or if you really just need
to have yourself a good cry, there is absolutely no
shame in a good cry. None of this is necessarily
going to solve your problems or the world's problems, but
(38:38):
it might put you in a better headspace to deal
with them, and that's probably the best we can ask
for right now. Now, it's your turn, rate and review.
Thanks for listening, slices, See you tomorrow. Good Game, Natalie,
Good Game, Mark Cuban, Keep replying to those emails my guy.
You companies that take shortcuts instead of actually optimizing their
products for the folks consuming them. Good Game with Sarah
(39:02):
Spain is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with
Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzie
and Misha Jones. Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz,
Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rutter,
Britney Martinez, and Grace Lynch. Our associate producer is Lucy
(39:25):
Jones and I'm your host, Sarah Spain
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're booking
ophthalmologist appointments asap. Hopping from screen to screen and sports
game to sports game is definitely frying our eyeballs, but
we won't be quitting anytime soon. It's Wednesday, March twelfth,
and on today's show, we'll be diving right into my
conversation with Moulach Kicks founder and CEO Natalie White. We
dished about how she started a footwear brand from scratch
(00:23):
in her twenties while other brands aren't really making basketball
shoes for women's feet, getting players like Courtney Williams to
Rock Moolahs and cold emailing Mark Cuban. It's all coming
up right after this joining us now. She's the founder
(00:46):
and CEO of Moolah Kicks, the only brand exclusively committed
to creating performance footwear for the women's hoops game. She's
a former Forbes thirty Under thirty, ONOREE Sports Business Journals,
thirty Voices Under thirty and twenty twenty four Front Offices,
Rise twenty five Class of twenty twenty three, and one
of Adwek's twenty twenty three Champions of Change. She is
still a child. It's Natalie White. What's up. Natalie.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Hi, Sarah, nice to be here. Thank you for that intro.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
I'm seriously shook because I just mentioned that you are
still capable of making thirty under thirty lists as of
you know, last year. You're very young. You're very young,
and you're already doing such amazing, incredible things. So first
of all, I'm going to try not to get intimidated
by somehow you putting together this massive company at such
a young age. And more importantly, I want to really
(01:34):
get into how it started, how this mulach Kicks journey started.
So let's go way back to your growing up and hooping,
I assume, and that being the impetus for you realizing
that there was a space in the industry.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Absolutely so. I grew up in New York City and
I played on almost every team you can imagine. I've
played for New Heights, i played for Team Prints, which
is now Exodus, I played for my high school, and
I still play in Dykeman and Rucker and all of
the women's street ball leagues. And I played in almost
(02:06):
every sneaker that you can imagine as well. And when
I went to college. I went to Boston College where
I studied finance. I played on the club team, and
I managed the varsity team, so I can I can
rebound okay and get water and watch jerseys like Noah.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Set and Drill.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Absolutely watched them off the floor. And when I was
picking out my shoes for my senior season, I saw
an ad that had four WNBA players holding out and
promoting the sneakers that they were on court, which were
all named after someone else, so it said Super Kyrie four,
(02:45):
Diana Torossi, Lebron twelve, and two other players. And I
remember seeing that ad and thinking, what is the message
for the next generation. It's that you can be the
absolute best in this game, best in the WNBA, and
you will still be wearing and promoting sneakers named after
(03:06):
someone else. And when you look into the issue, it's
clear that not only does it have a social implication,
but a performance one as well, because the female footform
differs in four key places in the male foot form five,
including the ankle, and when we, as female hoopers are
wearing men's children's unisex sneakers, we're actually more at risk
(03:29):
for the knee, ankle and leg injuries that are so
common in women's basketball, and so I saw that one
to punch and really, without any hesitation, created Moolah to
be the first and only brand that is focused specifically
on women's basketball where every single thing we do is
to elevate, see and celebrate female hoopers. And it starts
(03:53):
with premium performance equipment, footwear fit for her.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Okay, there is so much in there. I want to
get back to that moment where you see a need
and you obviously you have a finance background, you went
to a great college, You're a smart person, so you
recognize the need and that there's a space to fill.
You still have to create something from scratch. That means funding,
That means design, that means marketing, that means brand creation, trademarks, copyright,
(04:23):
advertising awareness. Like it is a massive deal to try
to break into a market that has really established top
performers like Nike, Rebok, Adidas as it's all these brands
that we already know, right, So where do you start?
Do you start with the funding? Do you start with
a pitch and an idea?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I would say, Sarah, that idea, what I just shared
with you is the easiest part.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
You know right, knowing that we're missing something is easy.
Fixing it is what we've been working on for literally
decades in the women's sportspace.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, but the easy part is the idea, is the
founding story. The hard part is making it happen. What
you've said and so you I thought, But when I
started it, I knew nothing about footwear, right, I didn't
have I mean, it's crazy, I'd have no background, you know,
that was my intro. It's like, I'm still very young.
So we are absolutely figuring everything out as we go.
(05:13):
And the beauty of that is that we get to
have our core consumer, the women's basketball player, the girls'
basketball players, drive all of our decisions. And the first,
the very first step in the process, I thought it
was funding. When I was a senior in college, I
went out for funding. Every single person told me no,
(05:34):
fifty one hundred. I can't even tell you the number
of accelerators I applied to people I pitched who said,
if this was a real market brand, Nike would have
already been doing it on German would have already been
doing it, because at the time, no one was. And
so that fueled me, Like I said, you know what,
(05:54):
we're going to do it with nothing, and we ended
up doing just that, bootstrapped it for two years. Who's
we at that time it was me. I was a
solo founder for two years, and now we've brought on
a great team that has transformed for the business. But
when I first started, it was just me, and I
do say we because I had so much help from
the women's team at Boston College and a lot of
(06:17):
the players in the ACC and all the players who
I grew up playing with. They helped. They worked on
Moolah with me for free, just because they believed in
what we're doing. And the first step in the process
was creating that inner form, which is called the last
and is responsible for the fit of the shoe. So
when we say fit for female ballers, it doesn't really
(06:40):
mean anything to the consumer. What means something is when
you say these shoes take no time to break in.
They're ready right out of the box. And what's responsible
for that is the inner fit. And what's responsible for
the inner fit is a form called the last spelled LASP,
and it's essentially a mold of way which all materials
(07:01):
are pulled around in the sneaker creation process and then
the very final step is that mold is removed, whether
it's a high heel, a boot, or a sneaker. And
so our mold was the first thing we needed to
create with pediatrists, orthopedic surgeons, and the top last company
in the world, Jones and Vining, And so essentially the
(07:22):
way we created that form was I called and interviewed
as many experts as I could find, podiatrist, whoever else
I just mentioned. I surveyed every girls basketball player I
could get a hold of, varsity players in the ACC,
the entire club circuit, walked around with a Google survey,
(07:44):
I mean just really vootscap standing outside of CONTI Forum
and pulling all the high school girls that walked in.
What do you like, what don't you like? What fits,
what doesn't. And then compiled all that research and made
that first form, sampled against it and start testing it
with the Boston College team where they had one of
their old sneakers on and one of our new Mulah prototypes,
(08:08):
and we ran them through practices and drills where they
would comment on the fit. And so in time we
just started small changes improvements to that form, until finally
we had a form that when folks put our shoes on,
they had they're ready right out of the box with
no break in time. And that was the first step
(08:29):
you mentioned.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
You know, less than ten percent of the basketball shoes
that are offered, including some W signature shoes, are designed
for the female foot form. It seems like a no
brainer to make women's shoes for women. And if the
process for all shoes is to have a last and
a mold, why doesn't it Why isn't it more common
to use the women's foot form for women's shoes?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Cost it's the tooling costs are really expensive, and the
big brands save money when they make everything for men
and market men's stuff for women.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
So if you went to any of the major brands
and you bought a women's shoe, it's women's in sense
of more the exterior shape than the interior form.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
For a lot of them.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yes, okay, interesting, So okay, I got to go back
still because you're acting like it's a normal thing for
a college senior to know about, you know, trying to
get into accelerator labs or trying to get Bundy. Like
obviously you have this entrepreneurial spirit and this business sense
where does that come from?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I don't know. I think you know. When I was
a real young kid, I used to always be thinking
about ways to make money. And I grew up in
New York and there used to even when I was
in fifth grade, there used to be a popular toy
called a miyachi. I don't know if you've ever heard
of it. It's like a hackey sack on your hands.
And I remember my family went to the beach one
(09:56):
summer and I bought wholesale one hundred the achis and
I tried to I went outside of a toy store
on the boardwalk and I played with them, trying to
bring that toy into trying to sell it to kids
like on the boardwalk. And so I think a part
of it I've always had and I a hustler, yeah,
(10:17):
and be an entrepreneur. I think is a lot like
being a manager for the basketball team, because it means
you want to be a support player and you care
more about the mission than what you're doing. I'm fine
getting the water. I want to support the players and
be a service person to our greater mission, which is
(10:40):
to elevate women's basketball.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
But you still need funding to do the things like
creating prototypes to put on players and have them test
them out and tell you what, yeah they like, what
they don't like. Before you're going to make a whole
bunch of shoes and try to get them in stores
and sell them, you still need a certain amount of
funding to get started. Where did that come from?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I did investment banking internship at HSBC and made twenty
five thousand dollars in one summer.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Work paid internship, paid internship. We love those.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
And then also for COVID, because I was in the
class of twenty twenty, we got a housing reimbursement from
when we got kicked out of the dorms and that
was about It was a food and housing reimbursement for
about eight thousand dollars. So I took the twenty five
thousand I made over the summer and the eight thousand
reimbursement and I used that thirty three thousand dollars and
(11:32):
invested every penny of that, which was all I had,
into those things that you do need to pay for,
right like the actual mold and the designs and the
sampling expenses. And then when we were ready, we came
out with a pre sale campaign in May of twenty
twenty one. So it took all you know, over a
(11:53):
year of sampling and working on this one hundred hours
a week full time with really no reward. And I
was blessed enough to live with my parents during that
time and they supported me with food and a bed,
and I was able to come out with a pre
sale campaign in twenty twenty one where we sold thirty
(12:13):
thousand dollars worth of products in only a few weeks.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
And that's not like a Kickstarter style, but it is
in the sense of they will order it before you'll
make it, and you'll know that that order is in
before you produce, so that you don't have stock laying
around that you then have to unload.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Exactly. It was basically a Kickstarter, except for we didn't
do it on the Kickstarter platform because they take ten
percent of yourself, right right, right right.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
I have to ask when you were playing AAU and
growing up, did you have a go to shoe or
did you just play with like did you bounce around?
Speaker 2 (12:42):
I bounced around?
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Yeah, yeah. Interesting. I had to always get the kind
with like the highest possible ankle, and then I had
to wear full like air cast ankle braces, which nobody
wears anymore. I feel like they've updated the technology, but
I had such bad ankles that I was like constantly
like all the way halfway up my frickin' My producer
is just writing in the script air cast. Ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha. Yeah, mesh, I'm oldest we've
(13:06):
been over this. I have no idea what the folks
are wearing now. I'm sure it's a million times better,
but that's literally what I had to suit up with
every freakid game. We got to take a quick break
more with Natalie White when we come back. You've got
(13:30):
this idea, You've sold the first batch of them. Now
you start being sort of strategic. When did you go
to Mark Cuban? Was that before or after the Dicks
Sporting Goods relationship?
Speaker 2 (13:40):
This is a crazy tidnit that needs to be shared.
So thirty thousand dollars of sales is a drop in
the bucket for what you need to produce commercial footwear.
Because to get into a top factory where our sneakers
were produced the first run, you need thousands of sneakers,
and thirty thousand dollars is hundreds, right, not thousands? So
(14:04):
including tooling costs and everything.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Else, explain tooling costs.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Tooling costs are essentially the cost to cut steel molds
for every half size of a mid soul and an outsol,
got it, And those run a couple of hundreds of
thousands of dollars.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Okay, all right, so take us to the factory. How
do you get these hundreds made when they're not thousands.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah. At the same time as that pre sale was happening,
there was a Good Morning America segment where the CEO
of Dick's Sporting Goods was talking about the commitment that
Dix has not only to women's sports, but in particular
to women's basketball. And I remember seeing that segment and thinking,
(14:45):
oh my god, they have everything except for sneakers fit
for her. They would love this. And I saw that segment,
and at the same time we had had a pr blast.
We were in the Boston Globe Sneaker Freaker overtime. A
ton of people were promoting our pre launch, essentially because
(15:08):
they knew me and knew Mulan what we're doing. We're
excited by it. And in the Boston Globe, a man
an industry expert named Matt Powell was quoted, and I
saw on LinkedIn that he was connected to Lauren Hobart,
the CEO of Dick's Boarding Goods, and so I reached
out to Matt after seeing the Good Morning America segment
and said, Hi, Matt, here's the segment I saw about
(15:31):
Dix and their commitment to women's basketball. Here's the Mulah brand.
Would you please connect me with her. Here's the exact
email ad right, here's the presentation I'm ready to give.
I'm ready to give that in two minutes or six
hours if I need to drive to Pittsburgh.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Amazing, And he.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Said, oh my gosh, you know, if you're gutsy enough
to ask me for that, then yes. And so I
connected with her and immediately she got right back to me,
and she connected me with their head of soft lines
and they're head of footwear, and I pitched in during
June of twenty twenty one. They loved it and they
said how soon can you get it here? And, of course,
(16:11):
not knowing much, I said, well, I can get it
there for basketball season and they said, okay, basketball season. Wow,
you'd be the fastest company.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Uh oh, not a great sign to ever deliver.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
To us and the smallest in size, meaning like I
was only one person at the time, and I said, yup,
we can do it. And they said, okay, we're going
to put it into one hundred and forty stores and
make the first ever women's basketball section with this. Then amazing,
and I said, let's do it. And at that time
I negotiated payment terms so that we had healthy receivable
(16:48):
terms with Dicks. Then went out and pitched to a
ton of the top factories overseas who I knew through
a few footwear connections that I had made through the
of the year and a half, and eventually pitched to
a group out in Dongnai, Vietnam, Wa Sung who created
sixty million pair of year for Adidas, Hoka, All Birds
(17:12):
and big big performance brands. I pitched to them. They
loved it, and they took us immediately and expedited all
of our production.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
They had even the management team was carting around our
uppers which is like the sewn in part two different
factory lines to make sure that they got done in time.
We made sure that our receivables covered our payables, and
then at that point went out and pitched investors just
to get the funds to get the goods through the border.
(17:47):
That was the only funds we needed to raise was
to cover the air freight and the customs. And so
went out and cold emailed Mark Cuban, because yeah, when
you don't know what you're what, who to go to?
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Right?
Speaker 2 (18:01):
And so I reached out to him with a cold email.
It's in his bio on LinkedIn, and he ended up
investing along with the consortium of a few other investors,
and we were able to get all of our goods
across in a safe way to exporting goods on time,
and we created the first ever women's basketball section in
(18:22):
one hundred and forty stores.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
That's incredible. Mark Cuban is. I don't want to encourage
a whole bunch of people to bug the hell out
of him, but I cold emailed him via Facebook about
the Cubs once and now we're friends as the results
of that, So he does get back to folks. He's
more accessible than you'd imagine for a multi billionaire. Okay,
so now you're in Dick's Sporting Goods, you're a one
hundred and forty stores. Now you've got a partnership with
(18:46):
them where they financially backed the brand through their DSG
Ventures investment fund. I still need to understand why they believed.
You're obviously very compelling, very smart. The idea is a
good one, but footwear is so specific and people I
would imagine if you did the research on it, it
is one of the items that people are most likely
(19:07):
to buy the brands they already know, and least likely
to go outside of existing brands. That's just a guess
for me. So how do you convince people that they're
good shoes, that they're not going to get injured, that
they're gonna make them play well, that they look good
in them, that they want to wear? Like, how are
you convincing Mark Cuban or Dix or even your partnership
(19:27):
with Stanley Mugs, which we'll get to later. How do
you convince them that it's a viable product that will work,
that won't have the wear and tear that people will
be mad about all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
The first step is putting them on. I mean, if
I were with you today, Sarah, I would have brought
a couple of pairs to make sure you put a
pair on, because the second you actually put our shoes on,
all those questions go away. You can tell it's a
quality product, and the second you stand up and take
a couple steps, you say, oh my god, I understand
what it means to not have any break in time.
(20:01):
So that's the first thing, is your product has to
be there.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
And is the break in time? So I remember I
was watching the videos. Courtney Williams, one of your players,
talked about how she loves the idea that she can
put on a new pair every game and doesn't have
to break them in. Why is that? Is that because
the form is made for her foot? Or is that
because of some proprietary technology that like other shoe companies
aren't doing for whatever reason.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
That's both are true. It is our female foot form
that we developed and it's that no other company has done.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Is it cost Again, that's the same, is what we
went back to. It's the tooling costs. It's just been
historically cheaper for them to make men's male fit products
and market it to women.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
But the same with the break in because the break
in is not specific to gender, right, that's just the
way the shoe is made.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
That's something that we as female basketball players experience ten
fold because the equipment isn't made for us.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
It's like during a.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Mouthguard, so they're related.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
It's the fact that it's made for you already, so
you don't have to break it in to match your
form because it was already built for you.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Exactly got it okay, all right?
Speaker 1 (21:07):
So people can tell by looking at the shoe, the
product putting it on, they understand the value. What's your
pitch to them about why someone would want to get
Moulah Kicks instead of going with the Sabrina and Escuz
or the other ones that they've heard about that they've
seen on the players they love.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Okay, first performance, our performance, the feeling is like no other.
And then second, it's on brand and it's on elevating
women's basketball. And we are the only specialists in this space.
We're the only company that puts women's first and the
(21:43):
only company who doesn't address women's basketball as a sub
sector of men's basketball or basketball in general. We address
women's basketball as its own sport because we love it
and are excited to be a part of this explosive growth.
And so when people buy Moolah, they know that not
only are they elevating their performance on court, but Also,
(22:06):
they're contributing to a brighter future of women's basketball because
every single dollar we earn goes back into that sport
and our players, not baseball and lifestyle and football and
everything else. Now, this is all we do. It's like
Lulemon or Patagonia. It's a specialist brand specifically for women's hoops.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Okay, So I want to get to that name that
you mentioned, so Moolah Kicks and the tagline by and
for female ballers. As someone who has been on the
back end of sports and technology app development, I have
been there for every step of what's the name, what's
the tagline, copyright, trademark, visuals, logo, colors, all of that.
(22:54):
And that's for an app where it's not something you're
wearing and walking around in every day. So I understand
the value and the difficulty in making all those decisions.
Did you outsource? Did you hire designers and folks that
you really trusted? How did you decide where to go
for the visuals of this? Because that's really important. You
could tell someone that the shoes are great and they
perform well, and that they stand for the right thing,
(23:16):
and if they're ugly, no one's rocking them absolutely.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
It's piece by piece. So when the company was first started,
the Mulah logo, it was this gold bar with the
words kind of imprinted in the logo, and that was
made in a Boston in the Boston College library by
me on illustrator.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
How'd you come up with moolah?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
So mulah slang for money, yep. And the slang aspect
is a nod to the street culture of women's basketball,
the Dykman, the West Fourth and the energy in that game.
And then the money aspect signifies the financial opportunity that
this brand is creating for female hoopers.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Got it okay?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
And so the first logo was everything step wise. I
think it's okay that you don't. You don't start out
in six hundred and thirty stores. You don't start out
with a clean logo and the look that we have now.
You start out the only way you know how okay,
you put it. You put it on the computer at
Boston College. Because that's the best you can do, and
it's all you know how to do. And so we
(24:17):
went with that for a while, and then in twenty
twenty two we had expanded our footprint from one hundred
and forty stores into four hundred and fifty, and so
you're right, we could no longer get by off of
the old creative and some of the really scrappy looks
because the brand continues to elevate and elevate. So at
that point, we partnered with Elizabeth McGarry and McGarry and
(24:41):
Sons to do a deep dive on what really speaks
to our women's basketball community, our high school and middle
school players, and we refresh the entire brand and all
of the creative to be centered around these two ideals.
One is Moolah as media and that's kind of this
holly with flavor. That shows what Moolah is doing as
(25:03):
a brand. We are elevating and it's like becoming that
tabloid feel. And then the other pillar is polarities and dualities,
and that shows that the Moolah brand is for everyone
in women's basketball. And how we demonstrate that is we
show the very different expressions that women's basketball has his home.
(25:29):
So many brands go down the middle with their marketing
for women's basketball, and we like to show all angles.
So this is for Courtney Williams who plays in the WNBA,
and this brand is also for the CIO first grader
who plays in the basement of her church, right Like,
this brand is for both and for everyone in between.
(25:52):
And so that's really the message that our new branding conveys.
But it didn't start there.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Okay, So it's a branding that's growing over time. But
in the meantime, you're being very intentional about the partnerships
and the development where people can find it, how they
could buy it, who they connected to, And that partnership
with Stanley actually came about through the Dick's partnership. Can
you tell me about that? It's very organic.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Stanley has had an incredible two years, no question, and
we saw the way that they were capturing kind of
the hearts of a lot of our core consumers. We
saw a big shift where a lot of girls' basketball
players actually had Stanley's below the bench last year. And
it just so happened that the CEO of Stanley was
(26:39):
walking through a Dick's fording Goods and looked at Moulah
and said, oh my god, what is this brand? How
are they commanding this much space essentially and excitement in
the footwear section? And they explained Moolah to them everything
that we stand for everything that we're doing, how well
received our products have been. And he shot an email saying,
(27:02):
let's do something the first of its kind. Coo, Hey,
first of its kind Stanley that has a matching sneaker,
And so we collaborated to come out with a first
ever footwear Stanley collad that was available in six hundred
and thirty stores and immediately when it hit the shells,
it started beating expectations.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Cool. How'd you end up partnering with Courtney Williams? How
did you build relationships with players and convince you know,
top level hoopers to commit to wearing shoes from a
lesser known brand instead of the go tos.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yeah, the first athletes were all people who helped shape
the brand, who we knew. So that's the beauty of
starting something when you're from the women's basketball community and
when you're young, like I just graduated BC one year
before they started testing the shoes on that court, and
(27:54):
so we knew everyone in the ACC one connection away
and this was right at the time, nil And at
that point, all it took was a text saying, Hey,
can I send you a pair of sneakers and can
you post on your Instagram and everyone did for free
Sarah because the women's basketball community loves it. Like I
think when you tried the sneaker on, when you hear
(28:16):
what the brand is doing and you hear our story,
people need no more convincing. You know, a lot of brands,
they have their own platform and what they stand for,
and so athletes need to be paid to promote their message.
And what Moulah is doing is we're here to support
the athlete's message. We're here to celebrate women's basketball, and
we actually want to build a platform for them rather
(28:39):
than the other way around. And so when people try
the shoe and hear that, we have had nothing but
good responses. And it started back when the brand first
launched with getting all of the ACC players, all the
players that I knew on board with it and posting,
and it grew from there and with Courtney, we met
actually through a spot with bleacher Report up at the
(29:03):
Connecticut Sun and bleacher Report said we're going to do
an unboxing as part of this series and we're gonna
do it with a WNBA player and I said, this
is amazing, We're excited for it, and they said, okay,
you know, we kind of pitched for this spot, and
they said, well, she's gonna unbox it cold right there
on the spot. And so Courtney and I met on
(29:26):
set live when she was unboxing this pair of Moulaws
and she tried them on for the first time on
a live segment and she loved them from there and
she loved the brand, and we signed her right away
and it's been a great partnership ever since.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
What's been the biggest challenge for you in making this
company happen.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
I have to say, Sarah, there's challenges big and small,
like every single week. I think one thing off the
top is you mentioned that you're knowledgeable and all of
the spaces about logos and branding and the rights to everything,
and I think every single part of the company is
like that. That there's nuance in all of the things
(30:11):
that people aren't thinking about in krgo insurance, in free
in delivery, in quality control at the manufacturer, in selling terms,
in marketing. I mean you could go dizzy with how
deep you can go in every single area of the business.
And so I would say one of the biggest macro
(30:31):
challenges is our time is limited, and how deep do
we go in every single section of the business at
what given time, and that changes through the years. There's
always a balance of time, money and resources and what
we want to be investing in.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
How big is your team now?
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Our team is five full time.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
That's insane, nothing.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
And we're doing crazy, you know, well over seven figures
of revenue.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Yeah, as being a woman in her twenties ever felt
like a bare whether it's folks not taking you seriously
or trying to take advantage.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
It's a hard one because I think it's also what
makes this business so special, you know, I mean, you
can't this is who you are and you have to
own it. And so it's been really well received. This
is what it means to be buying for female ballers,
and I don't think that. I think there's definitely challenges
to it, but there's also so many benefits to being
(31:29):
from the women's basketball community and making a brand and
a product that serves your same community. So I would
say there have certainly been challenges as it relates to
literally any area of the business, whether that's funding or
part of anything. But there's also just as many benefits
to also being able to text players and saying, hey,
(31:50):
would you mind posting.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
This yeah, for sure, the connections and relationship. I think
for me, I guess part of it is you seem
like you're so knowledgeable about all aspects of it. I
would feel like I would be concerned, like that the
deal I was getting was too good to be true,
or that I was getting taken advantage for there was
something I didn't know about the business that the other
person on the other side negotiating does, and that they're
pulling one over on me. And I wonder if you've
(32:13):
had any moments I think for people listening, especially who
are like, holy shit, how is this still under thirty
person pulling all this off? Like have you made a mistake?
Have you had a moment where you're like, oh, I
wasted a ton of money on that whoops a daisy,
Or I said the wrong deal for this and I
should I could have made a lot more.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Again, it's like pick your day. You know, I've made
more mistakes than anyone else. I can't even tell you.
But I think at the time, you always do what
you feel like is the best decision, and you have
to operate with the tools and the knowledge that you
have at hand, and you can't look back, And so
I wouldn't classify any of them as mistakes. I mean,
(32:51):
even look at our old branding right or our first
shoe that came out. It's like we're a completely different
company than what we were. I mean, night and day
really like unrecognizable, and we're developing in front of everyone
and in front of the world, and that's a challenge
in of itself. But I wouldn't say anything that we
(33:13):
did then was a mistake because we were operating one
hundred and ten percent. I've always given this business like
every ounce that I have, and that's.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
All you can really do, you know, in a moment, Yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
No one's looking to pull one over. I don't think
on you. I think that all of the approaches we've
taken are ones of incredible gratitude and service to our partners,
and I think when you do that, people want to
reciprocate it. And I've noticed that in a lot of conversations.
I think entrepreneurs go into it with that angle, Sarah,
(33:49):
like they really do think, Okay, everyone's trying to get
the better deal, and I like to let other people
have the better deal. We'd like you to have the
better deal because you're taking a shot on us. So
take all the take all the margin, take all the
costs you want. Like that's how it started, is I
made no money personally for like four years. The company
(34:11):
didn't make much, and we just wanted to give our
partners the most benefit we could because you were grateful,
and in turn they have had our back when things went.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, I just learned this last week and I'm stealing it.
It's not win or lose, its win or learn. So
if you just if you just make every single loss
or mistake a learning opportunity, then you can always reframe
it and move forward more positively. There are some big
picture things in the footboor world that you're going to
have to deal with that are not going to be
(34:41):
maybe as easy to put a spin on, like whether
it's workplace issues in the shoe industry, factory issues, like
have you ever had to make a decision where you
really are questioning your own beliefs and your optimism about
the business versus the reality of trying to create products
at a reasonable cost that people are willing to spend.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Not yet, and they will come absolutely, but at this
point we haven't come to that scale yet where we're
faced with any of the macro issues, but we are
also seeing of course we're affected by it. Right we
have tariffs that are getting pasked. That's going to be
affecting the business. There's a ton of macro issues that
(35:25):
are affecting us today, but so far, we haven't we
haven't had to compromise, absolutely not any of our beliefs
for what we're doing.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
I hope you get to stay this optimistic. And I
am not a cynical person, even in the slightest I'm
just so much older than you that at this point
I'm like, oh, there are plenty of people looking to
screw you over and trying to get one over on you.
But hopefully you will continue to find the partners and
the people to work with that want this sort of
mutually beneficial relationship that have your back because they know
that you have theirs. That's the best case scenario. What's
(35:57):
next for the brand? I know you got into some apparel.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
We just launched some apparel. We have a new launch
dropping on May fifteenth that we're excited about. That'll be
our summer collection. And then we're just continuing to we
want to continue to grow how we have that because
if we keep doing that. If our players keep being
excited about the shoes that we're serving up and the
way that the brand is moving, I think it'll be
(36:22):
continue to be a good couple of years ahead of us.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Well, I cannot tell you how impressed. I am, just
blown away, so incredible. You were at a conference I
was at, or I think it was Upfronts in New York,
and we didn't get a chance to speak, but I
know the shoes were there and I checked them out.
They look pretty badass, but just such a cool thing
to see an opportunity and try to fill it, try
to fix it. So continued. Good luck to you, and
(36:45):
thanks so much for giving us some time.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Thank you, Sarah.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
We have to take another break when we come back.
Sometimes you just gotta let it out. Welcome back, Slices.
We love that you're listening, but we want you to
get in the game every day too. So here's our
good game play of the day. Go check out Moolah's offerings,
(37:10):
especially if you're a hooper. We're going to be trying
out the shoes for ourselves. I don't know, they might
become producer mishes go to for summer pickup games. We
love to hear from you, so hit us up on email,
good game at wondermediaetwork dot com, or leave us a
voicemail at eight seven two two oh four fifty seventy,
and don't forget to subscribe. Rate and review, y'all. It's easy.
Watch laughing, singing, screaming, dancing, or crying it out. Rating
(37:36):
ten out of ten. Damn I feel better review you
know slices. There are a lot of things happening in
our world, and finding a balance between taking in information
and not overwhelming yourself can be super difficult. For some,
it can even result in a kind of I don't know,
emotional constipation. You see all the things happening and you
(37:57):
just don't know what to do except internalize. And sometimes
talking through what's bothering you just isn't enough. Sometimes we
need like a reset, some emotional prune juice. If you
will next time you're feeling emotionally constipated, watch one of
those try not to laugh videos, or find a well
insulated room and scream, reel loud, or put on a
(38:17):
song you really love and just dance around. If you
got the space and you won't bother anyone, belt out
the song too, and if it's a sad song or
the spirit moves you, or if you really just need
to have yourself a good cry, there is absolutely no
shame in a good cry. None of this is necessarily
going to solve your problems or the world's problems, but
(38:38):
it might put you in a better headspace to deal
with them, and that's probably the best we can ask
for right now. Now, it's your turn, rate and review.
Thanks for listening, slices, See you tomorrow. Good Game, Natalie,
Good Game, Mark Cuban, Keep replying to those emails my guy.
You companies that take shortcuts instead of actually optimizing their
products for the folks consuming them. Good Game with Sarah
(39:02):
Spain is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with
Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzie
and Misha Jones. Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz,
Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rutter,
Britney Martinez, and Grace Lynch. Our associate producer is Lucy
(39:25):
Jones and I'm your host, Sarah Spain
Host
Sarah Spain
Popular Podcasts
Are You A Charlotte?
In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com