Footy Daddy with Meg Linehan and Tamerra Griffin

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where our mouths
are agape after hearing the news that Captain America Hillary
Knight is unprotected by the Boston Fleet ahead of the
PWHL expansion Draft. It's Thursday, June fifth, and on today's show,
we'll be chatting with the Athletics Meg Lenahan and Tamara
Griffin for a mid season NWSL check in, a big
picture look at what excites and worries them about the league,

(00:23):
how to handle growing pains as the prices go up,
and a dive into the standings. Which top of the
table teams look primed to stay on top, who could
challenge from the middle of the pack, and is there
any hope for Utah and Chicago? Plus a hard launch
done Wright Night moves and is this keeper the keeper?
It's all coming up right after this Welcome back slices.

(00:48):
Here's what you need to know today. Let's start with hockey.
All six PWHL teams announced the three players they'll be
protecting during the expansion draft process. As we've said before,
the fact that teams were allowed to protect just three
players from the start is absolutely bonkers, and that means
that these decisions must have been excruciating for the general

(01:09):
managers and coaching staffs. Some of the protection lists that
have been released are pretty unsurprising, like Montreal protecting Marie
Philippe Pulen, Laura Stacey, and Anne Renee Dabien, in Minnesota
protecting Taylor Heisie Kendall, Quint Schofield, and Lease Decline. But
the biggest surprise was Boston opting not to protect Captain
and superstar Hillary Knight, choosing instead to go with Aaron Frankel,

(01:31):
Meghan Keller, and Alina Mueller. There is so much to
unpack from this decision, especially given that in her interview
on this show less than two weeks ago, Hillary Knight
mentioned her commitment to bringing a p WHL trophy to
Boston before the end of her career. Now maybe Boston's
front office was wondering just when that end might be
given Knight's recent announcement that next year's Winner Olympics will

(01:53):
be her last, but she did say she plans to
continue playing in the PWHL. Other surprises include the New
York Sirens failing to protect Alex Carpenter and the Toronto
Scepters leaving Sarah nurse vulnerable. Now we just have to
wait and see if any of those big surprise players
are willing to negotiate with Seattle or Vancouver or if
they'll end up getting snatched up in the draft. If

(02:14):
you want to better understand the decision making that might
go into when and if players are pursued by Seattle
and Vancouver during the current exclusive signing window or later
acquired in the upcoming draft, I highly recommend the June
four episode of Jackson Jill's podcast. We'll link to that
in the show Notes to Soccer. The US women's national
team defeated a shorthanded Jamaic inside four nil and a

(02:35):
friendly and energizer park in Saint Louis on Tuesday night,
Ali sent Nora and lynd Biandolo scored two goals apiece
to lead the team. Meantime, on the other end of
the pitch, Fallon Tullis Joyce started her second game for
the US of this international window, recording clean sheets in both.
She made two saves in the US team's three nil
went over China and didn't have to make any saves
against Jamaica. After the game, coach Emma Hayes said that

(02:56):
while she's not yet ready to name a full time
replacement for long time time keeper A Lissenaire. She noted
that Tullis Joyce akaid the octopus is ahead when it
comes to the current pool of keepers. The WNBA on
Wednesday announced its first monthly honors of the season. The
Minnesota Link System Feasa Collier was named Western Conference Player
of the Month after averaging twenty six point eight points

(03:17):
per game in six games in May, while Atlanta's Ali
Shagre was awarded Eastern Conference Player of the Month helping
lead the dream to a five and two record with
twenty one point four points per game. The league also
named Washington Mystics forward Kiki erie Fen Rookie of the
Month after she recorded thirteen point nine points per game
and ten point one rebounds per game in her first
seven games as a pro. A double double is insane.

(03:40):
Eriefn also responsible for multiple reverse welcome to the WNBA moments,
as the rookie's been sitting vets on their asses with
big blocks and sturdy screens since day one of the season.
Coach of the Month honors went to the New York
Liberty Sandy Brondello, which feels pretty deserved given that during
the month of May, the undefeated Liberty led the league
in points per game, assists per game, defensive rebounds per game,

(04:02):
blocks per game, three per game, field goal percentage, lowest
opponent field goal percentage, true shooting percentage, just assist to
turnover ratio, net rating, offensive rating, and defensive rating. So
basically all of the stats more hoops news and the
best kind, especially during Pride Month. Hoops and gayshit Olivia Miles,
the former Notre Dame standout who transferred to TCU after

(04:22):
last season, and Matty Westbeld, recent Notre Dame grad now
in her first year with the Chicago Sky Hard launched
their relationship with a cat who has a hyphenated name
in his own Instagram, yep Bean. Miles Westbeld is the
debonair Kat's son of the two former teammates and his Insta.
Along with a recent post by Miles featuring a couple

(04:43):
picks of the two hoopers, canoodling constitutes the official hard
launch for the Irish duo, commented fellow Irish Hooper Kaylie Watson,
and the Hard launch I'm in tears with lots of emojis.
We feel the same way, congrats to the happy couple
to softba all. The Women's College World Series continues tonight
with Game two of the best of three series between

(05:04):
Number six Texas and Number twelve Texas Tech. We're recording
this before Game one wrapped on Wednesday night, but we're
sure all of you slices were watching that game live
along with many other folks. Because the College World Series
has been drawing huge numbers, The pre Finals World Series
games have been averaging one point one million viewers, up
twenty five percent year over year. It's ESPN's most watched

(05:27):
pre Finals College World Series on record. To tennis. The
French Open continues today with the semi finals at the
women's tourney. First up at nine am Eastern Arena Sabalanka
takes on Igaspontech. Then after that match wraps, it'll be
Coco Golf taking on hometown favorite Los Boisson of France.
Ranked three hundred and sixty first in the world, she

(05:47):
has a fairy tale run to make it to this stage.
Boissan is the first woman to reach the semifinals at
her debut Grand Slam tournament since Jennifer Capriotti at the
nineteen ninety French Open. And she's the first women's wildcard
entry ever to reach the French Open semis in the
open era that dates back to nineteen sixty eight. The
twenty two year old tore her acl last year, just
one week ahead of the French Open, which prevented her

(06:09):
from accepting an invitation to compete in the tournament. What
a comeback for Boisson and what a cool scene for
her to be doing it in France. We'll link to
the full tournament schedule in the show notes. Finally, an
update on a story we mentioned earlier this week. We
told you about the absolute piece of shit heckler that
five time Olympic medalist Gabby Thomas had to deal with
while she was competing at a Grand Slam Track event

(06:30):
in Philadelphia over the weekend. While on Wednesday, Fan Duel
told DESPN that the company has banned the man from
using their services. The man had posted on social media
quote I made Gabby lues by heckling her and it
made my parlay win, alongside screenshots of a one thousand
dollars parlay bet on FanDuel go round and find out

(06:50):
bro ground and find out we got to take a
quick break when we come back the state of the
NWSL with Megan to joining us now. She's a senior
writer and the women's sports lead at The Athletic. The

(07:11):
co host of the fantastic weekly podcast full Time with Meglenahan.
She's everybody's go to journalist for coverage of the US
women's national team, the NWSL, and all things women's soccer.
Her dog Dewit's gonna be a big bro because she
and her wife have a baby do in August fingers
crossed for an eight to eighteen birthday. It's the best.
It's Meg Lenahan. Welcome back bag, Hello, Hello, Hello, congratulation,

(07:33):
thank you, thank you, very exciting news joining her. The
other co host of Full Time with Meglenahan and now
a full time women's soccer writer for The Athletic. She's
known for not just soccer writing, but also her coverage
of the intersection of fashion, style, art and visual culture.
She's a new auntie and she can order you a
coffee in French and Portuguese. It's Tamara Griffin. Hi, Tamara.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
I'm so flat that I was not ready for that.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
Hi. Can you say swing and Portuguese right now? Ah,
Bondia and simple enough before we get to the NWSL.
We have actually a quick hockey tangent. Okay, because on Tuesday,
the PWHL announced the three players each team was protecting
ahead of the upcoming expansion Draft, and the biggest surprise

(08:15):
by far, especially for us having just had her on
the show and joking about how it would be hilarious
if somehow she wasn't protected, was Boston Fleet captain and
Captain America Hillary Knight. Meg, you're a friend of Hillary's,
you're an East Coaster, and you wrote about this on
Blue Sky and said, quote personal bias aside, including honestly
feeling like Hillary Knight belongs in Boston, but just looking

(08:38):
at it with NWSL glasses on, it's intensely wild that
a player of this caliber, in this stage of her
career has essentially no control over where she's playing in
the lead up to the Olympics too. End quote. I
totally agree with you, And of course some of that
is that the PWHL is only two seasons old, even
though Hillary Knight's pro career is much older than that.
But what were your initial thoughts when you saw the

(08:58):
expansion draft rule only protecting three players and the whole
night all of it.

Speaker 3 (09:03):
Yeah, I mean it is interesting just because obviously the
NBCL has done away with the expansion Draft and we're
about to like live through it from an NWCL point
of view with Boston and Denver coming into the league,
and we still need the final rundown of how this
is going to look without an expansion draft. But the
PWHL expansion Draft heavily favors the two teams coming in
like you can build. I mean, Hillary Knight's unprotected, Sarah

(09:26):
Nurse is unprotected, Alice Carpenter is under unprotected. Like yeah,
like just the sheer list of names. Like if an
NWBCL team had come in with that caliber a player
available to them, I think they would have been weeping
with joy.

Speaker 4 (09:41):
But it is.

Speaker 3 (09:42):
Really and like, yes, one hundred percent bias when it
comes to Hillary, I do get the sense that this
was not anknown thing that was about to happen, and
there is that period of free agency negotiation, right, so
like there is maybe that angle, but like if you
live in Boston and you have your stuff in Boston,
this isn't an NBA shock trade or anything.

Speaker 4 (10:02):
These players aren't.

Speaker 3 (10:04):
Super wealthy and can just kind of pick up and
move at the drop of a hat. And it's just
I don't know. I think like this is why the
NWSL Players Association has been so thoughtful and intentional about
realizing how important it is for players to have control
over where they and free agency was so important to
the NWLPA. So again, like the lifespan of these leagues

(10:26):
does come into it. But yeah, heading into her her
final Olympics, right, like that's the one thing she's announced. Yeah,
and then in theory, you know, maybe potentially having to
move to the Pacific Northwest in some form or another.
It's just I don't know, it was it was I
definitely had a very WTF.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
She said she wanted to keep playing in the p
WHL after the Olympics and that one of her big
goals was to bring a title to Boston.

Speaker 4 (10:49):
It's tough. It's tough. It's tough.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
We could keep talking about this because I think also,
as producer Alex rightfully points out, being a single entity
owner for the PWHL, you don't really have to please
individual owners by letting them keep rosters intact. But you
also don't have players who are maybe going to be
angry at the ownership of the team. That acquires them,
understanding that it's the rules made by the larger league.
But yeah, anyway, we're gonna do a lot of PW digital,

(11:14):
so we'll have some guests on to talk us through
once everything is shaken out and where everybody lands. But
wanted to get your thoughts on that, particularly because we
know of your ties to that market and to Hillary.
All Right, soccer time. NWSL is about to return from
a short international break, so it's a good time for
us to kind of consider the league through week ten
to America, Kansas City Current sitting alone atop the table,

(11:36):
four points ahead of second place San Diego Wave, then
the Orlando Pride in Washington Spirit just to point behind
the Wave. What's your take on the top teams through
week ten.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
I swear this is not my California native bias, but
I am endlessly fascinated by what the Wave have been
doing so far this season. I also don't think I'm
being dramatic and saying that nobody saw this coming when
you consider how their season ended last season. And I'm
not just talking about what was happening on the pitch,
because a lot of that was informed by what was

(12:06):
happening off of it, the shock firing of Casey Stoney,
the departures of Alex Morgan, Naomi Gara, Jaden Shaw. I
don't think anyone was expecting them. I mean, I think
that I won't name them, but there were some people
who projected this team finishing the season at the bottom
of the table, which is wild but not totally unexpected
in the end of USL, where we see teams go

(12:27):
from bottom to top from one season to the next,
We've seen it before. But the fact that they have
a new coach and Yonics Adaval who is not only
new to the way, but new to the end of USL,
coming over from Europe, which is usually really really hard
in terms of an adjustment, pretty much a brand new team.
I think they only have maybe nine returning faces, and

(12:48):
only three of those have been with the club from
the very beginning. They have international players, they have players
who are new professionals, they have young players. All of
the pieces that really will spell we're going to give
you t to cook. Yeah, but they've been cooking this season.
I mean so many different goal scorers. They're on like
a five or six game unbeaten streak. I am so

(13:09):
impressed by them. And it's not only what they've been
able to accomplish, it is how it looks on the field.
They look unified. They are saucy in the midfield. I
am all in on Kenza Dali, the French international who
has just commited. She's like a centripaal force when you
watch them play. Melanie Barsenas, who is still a teenager.
I think she just went to prom not too long ago.

(13:30):
She's been developing beautifully within the club. And like I said,
nobody saw this coming. They've had so many changes and
I can see them definitely making it into the postseason.
Everyone else less surprising because it feels a little bit
like how the table looked around this time last season.
But the Wave have been the chakra for me so
far for sure.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
While you're already offering up titles for the episode with
Saucy in the midfield, which I love, but also teeing
up the stats for this team that I had written down,
which you're right. So last year and they finished in
tenth place with thirteen losses, we're now in second. They're
second in goals with twenty one, and they have a
lead leaguing thirteen different goal scorers, with more than half

(14:10):
the regular season left to play, just unbelievable. Meg. The
bottom two teams by a lot are the Utah Royals
and the Chicago Neutral Colored Stars five and four points respectively.
Any surprises there for.

Speaker 4 (14:25):
You, I don't think so really.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
I mean Utah, I think everybody did have higher expectations
of like that run.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Alle sent Nor driven, right like, I thought that her
Bangers could alone carry a team that wasn't really buil
for success.

Speaker 4 (14:39):
I think Ali sent Nor and Minazanaka right like.

Speaker 3 (14:43):
I think those were the two players that everybody, especially
coming out of She Believes Cup, everybody was very amped
about the two of them, and then that didn't happen
for Chicago. I really don't think anything is all that surprising.
What I've ranted about Chicago a lot, so I don't
want to like revisit the the same complaints time and
time again. But it just feels so very unserious. Lauren

(15:05):
Donaldson may or may not have been a problem, but
fundamentally that roster build really is one of the main issues.
Like if they brought in some more pieces, but like
it just feels like, you know, you have new investors
come in, they're very focused about a stadium solution.

Speaker 4 (15:20):
Which is great.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
The current you know, news cycle around Chicago is that
they're now in this equality bill around money for building
a public stadium, which also isn't even on the table.
There's no there's no public stadium that's about to get
built for men's or women's sports.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
Chicago Fire just announced.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
Yes, but that's privately funded, yeah, right, right, public public, yes,
public money, right, And I think.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
It's the only win they've got, Meg, I'm gonna do.
I think it's great that they're getting themselves at the
table and in that conversation if that comes up, and
it's about the only thing that they have to send
out a press release about that isn't just here's the
final of another loss.

Speaker 3 (15:57):
Right, And so I mean, the nice thing about the end,
as Tamara already mentioned, is that you can have a
very quick turnaround. But when you have the quotes coming
from the general manager out of Chicago that have been circulating.
Shout out to to Leslie from Kalpals who got him
on record, who he's very proud about not spending money

(16:18):
on that roster and for getting money incoming which is
then not being spent, you just don't see a solution
coming anytime soon. And like, even if Mallory Swanson, you know,
post pregnancy, comes back and is the player that we
all expect her to be, one player alone is not
going to solve the problems of that team.

Speaker 4 (16:38):
So it is.

Speaker 3 (16:39):
It's disappointing, but it's not surprising.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
It's especially disappointing with Alyssa nay Or.

Speaker 3 (16:44):
Yes, so like listen, I watched her suffer in Boston
for so long.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
The magnitude of that tragedy. Knowing that she is going
to end a professional career with the Stars.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
Ah, it pains left out to dry. I know it
hurts loyalty though it is. It is it is, and
talk about someone that's good at getting the next generation
to want more and want better and get through this.
But she's a better woman than I am. I'll tell
you that much, Tamor. If you're looking at the middle

(17:18):
of the pack, which team or couple of teams do
you think has the best shot to push up into
the top three.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
I remain intrigued by Racing Louisville, although I do think
someone needs to check in on their like emotional welfare
because this deep into the season, we're barely halfway through,
there've already been two players who have not only gotten
red cards in games, but had their disciplinary action escalated,

(17:46):
And for me, I'm trying to not like equate that
to being a cry for help. I know that Beviannas
has this team playing a super aggressive style of football,
high pressing from top to bottom, but I just wonder
if something's going on there beyond what we're seeing on
the field, because what I see on the field outside
of that does have some promise and probably more momentum

(18:07):
than I see coming out of this team at this
point in the season. The way that sav Damelo is
able to draw foul, she's excellent with her free kick service.
Kayla Fisher prior to getting the red card, I mean,
even considering it, I think has had a really interesting
run of form. When Ari Borges comes back, the other
player who got that red card, I do think that
they're putting some interesting pieces together, and I'm going to

(18:29):
be paying attention. I mean, they tend to not make
too many moves during these transfer windows, but maybe I'll
be surprised this summer. So that's one team I'm going
to be paying attention to. This is probably a little
bit of California bias, but I'm hoping for better for BFC.
They just started playing Hannah Biebar who they signed a
few months ago, but in her first game, I think

(18:51):
she and this is what I've been told even before
she started playing with the team, that she was going
to revitalize that midfield. I think there's probably been a
little bit too much rotation for them to be able
to build on any sort of consistency. But I'm going
to be hoping for them just from like a spiritual perspective.
I hope that I'm right, But right now, I'm going
to say Louisville is most intriguing to me, and they

(19:12):
love to crush people's dreams, so I think the second
half of the season for them is going to be interesting.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
I love that you're digging into the psyches and the
spiritual wellbeings of those times to the California girl, I
appreciate that. Speaking of spiritual wellbeing, we did sort of
not talk about it on our show, and we should
have mentioned Kayla Fisher's three match ban for the hair
poll Meg. We heard Tamara concerned about potentially being a
cry for help for me, certainly when I see that

(19:39):
it is so outside the bounds of just I'm frustrated,
and this is coming from someone that got a lot
of yellow cards in field hockey. I bumped a lot
of people. I pushed a lot of people out of
my way, but it was all in pursuit of the
next play. When you yank someone and pull them by
the hair, that is a totally different thing. What did
you make of that? And it feels sort of I

(20:02):
don't feel like we've seen something similar in the NWSL. No,
I think we have, remembering the college gal who like
lost her mind during that.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
Yeah, I mean, hair pulling is definitely not as rare,
but like there have been some stomps that have happened
in the NWSL, right Like there, there is absolutely you know,
people get wildly competitive and things happen. But I do think,
you know, the NWSL has to send a message here
of saying like this has to go right, and so
immediately turning it into a three game suspension, yes, good.

(20:34):
Could it have even been more like send the message
now and get it cut out right and so there,
I think there probably could have been a little bit
more or you know, like really upping the fine generally,
player finds are really not that high. But I think
there does have to be a consequence to like really
keep this out of bout exactly and so but at

(20:58):
the at the end of the day, like I don't
know the physicality piece of it.

Speaker 4 (21:02):
I mean from a from a.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
Racing point of view, I think there is a really
interesting question of just like why they rely so much
on physicality and because that's not what I ever would
have associated Beviana's as a player with. That's not something
that like when I think about watching her with Seattle Rain,
that comes to mind immediately. And I believe in her
as a head coach. I think she's, you know, a

(21:24):
head coach that the end of cl also honestly desperately
needs to succeed to.

Speaker 4 (21:29):
Like prove that path exists for players. But yeah, could
the n.

Speaker 3 (21:34):
OFSL have sent a much stronger message on that front. Honestly, probably,
but they they have so much going on.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
Sarah, I mean, at least we're grateful about the three
match band is.

Speaker 4 (21:48):
She's been very star of the show today.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
So waits she called her, I was like, maybe she
meant bro in the gender expansive.

Speaker 4 (21:56):
I mean that's totally true.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
I mean I do actually refer to her as bro
frequently in this household, so it's totally acceptable.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
My apologies to w a big sibling. Big sibling. There
goes Tamaragatham FC, winners of the inaugural conkakaf W Champions Cup,
a tournament dating back to last season. What kind of
weight are you putting into that win in that tournament
and also currently in ninth place with twelve points? What
needs to happen for them to find similar success in

(22:23):
the league that they play in.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
So as far as continental tournaments go, this one is
still very much in its nascent stage. I don't think
it helped that it happens so close to Champions League,
which is the biggest continental club tournament that you get.
I think in terms of the club, they from the
coach to players have spoken at length about the importance
of sort of acquiring these sort of continental trophies because

(22:50):
they want to be a global club, they want to
be a global brand, So I think in terms of
that it was a positive for them. I think given
where they are right now in the NW cell table,
it's got to be some sort of confidence boost in
a broader sense. I am not yet going to put
too much weight into them winning this tournament only because
it's so new. I mean, Tigress definitely put up a fight.

(23:12):
From an atmospheric standpoint. They had a ton of fans
in the crowd for both games in the semi final
and the final, which is great and obviously something that
you want to build on. It was an entertaining game,
it wasn't I think the on field product in that
final probably wasn't the best. But I know Estaire had

(23:32):
been on a bit of a gold route leading up
to that. She's now definitely in competition for the end
of your Cell Golden Boot, so I think from individual standpoints,
it was important for her to get that penalty to
convert it. Hopefully that'll carry over into league play in
terms of what they need to do to sort of
get squarely back into the playoff table or just get

(23:53):
back to where I know that they believe they're meant
to be. I think they probably need to be better
at making adjustments in games. I mean, es there, she
is still on a run right now.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
She started off crazy hot despite that little gap.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
Right but I think that they probably need to be
a little bit more humble about their ability to just
do their thing and play their style, and that that
will necessarily translate to success. I think similar to what
I was saying about AFC and the rotations, I know

(24:29):
that Wan Carlos Amorros is spoiled for choice when it
comes to Gotham's attacking line between Jase, between Midge Purse,
between us there between oh my god, I'm blinking on
her name, the really the other saucy one who.

Speaker 4 (24:42):
Wears her soas over. As soon as you said Sleeves,
I was like, Eli Stevens.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yes, thank you, I get Chicago stars who made it
out okay to celebrate.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yes, Gaby Porcillo when she comes back from injury. And
I appreciate that. You know, based on what the game needs,
that will determine who makes that starting lineup. But I've
seen what I think is an emerging partnership between Jason
Mitche Purse, for example. What does it look like to
sort of build on that.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
With It's kind of wild for you to say all
those names and then realize that the team only has
twelve points. It's like, what ch'all doing something?

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Let's clicking, let's.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
Figure it out. Yeah, Meg, I was listening to a
touch more and it's always hilarious to me when Rapino
tries to explain to Sue Bird Soccer, especially cups like this.
She's like, Okay, so like Europe is like the CONCA
calf and then the different leagues are like the countries.
And then and I was listening, I was like, I

(25:39):
know what it is, and I'm still confused. So for
those who are listening, maybe explain why the NWSL would
want to be involved in a CONCA Cafe W Champions Cup,
what it is compared to Europe, and especially for those
who don't even really understand how Europe works. You don't
have to get too deep in, but just a top
level idea of how the NWSL, both in the way
that they abolished the draft and joined the FIFA International Timeline,

(26:02):
but also in some of these decisions around the cups
are trying to become part of the global game.

Speaker 4 (26:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:06):
I mean, so NWUSL, right, is a league. There's kind
of two structures. You have a club structure and an
international structure. So from a club point of view, everyone
like all of the leagues then belonged to their federation. Right,
So NWSL is sanctioned by US Soccer, US soccer belongs
to CONKA CAF, which is the confederation and represents North

(26:32):
and you know basically like Canada, US, Mexico and Central America.
So there is this kind of structure that keeps going up.
Eventually you do hit FIFA. In Europe, they have UEFA,
which is you know, truly all of Europe and Champions
League and I think every you know, casual viewer is
probably familiar with what Champions League looks like in terms

(26:52):
of all these clubs coming together playing and then you
get a trophy at the end of it. So why
this is actually really important for the NWSL is because
now FIFA are global overlords have decided that there's going
to be is that there's going to be a Club
World Cup on the women's side. So what is interesting

(27:14):
about that is they had announced it and you know,
we're kind of chugging along with absolutely zero details, and
then they had to be like, oh, actually wait, we're
not ready for this entirely, and so they've kind of
restructured it so it's an every four year thing, just
like on the men's side. But what's going to happen
is that there's essentially like a smaller version of it

(27:34):
where the champion from every confederation for the most part
minus one plays in and then you get a club
World Champion, and then there's going to be a full
Club World Cup. So Gotham winning this actually is important
because it gets them into the smaller version of it,
and it gets them into the bigger version of it,
which isn't going to happen until twenty twenty eight. I

(27:54):
really hope your listeners are just like, Wow, I love
governance talk.

Speaker 4 (27:58):
It's so much fun.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
Actually help me because I was slightly confused about the
different World Club Cups Club World Cups, and so the
idea that the smaller one is happening because the bigger
one wasn't ready, but the bigger one is still happening,
that all makes sense now. And so essentially, if you
like watching the US and the World Cup, it's like that,
except it will be your NWSL team, not mine, because
I still live for the Chicago Stars, but the one

(28:22):
that you like might be in it, and then they'll
play other clubs from around the world and it would
be awesome. I would love to watch the best NWSL
against you know, Chelsea and other teams like that. You
hear about that you know, are great, and then we
could stop having our subjective conversations, Yeah, which is the
best league in the world if one of the ends
up having all the best teams in the finals of

(28:43):
the You know.

Speaker 3 (28:43):
Though, I will say, what is going to be really
interesting about this is just in terms of you know,
one of the biggest conversations on both the men's and
women's side is player load and the calendar getting more
and more congested and fitting things in, and so when
you have these sort of you know, club competitions also
stacking on top of international competitions, I think there's always

(29:05):
going to be that cavea of who's in season, who's
out of season, who's in season right, and so like
Epipe exactly, and so it like, yes, we are going
to finally be able to maybe say, like oh, okay,
an nd OFB sale team versus Barcelona with a trophy
on the line, But at the same time, one.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
Of those seasons, who's healthy, who's healthy.

Speaker 3 (29:24):
Yeah, it's gonna I think there's always going to be
that level to it as well.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
We'll just have Kathy Engelbert pop on over and make
a prioritization rule like in the WNBA and force people
to stick around for whatever she most prioritizes. Tamara, you
guys did a great episode discussing the Unwell FC League
Supporters group that is headed by Call Her Daddy podcast
host Alex Cooper. Now that the debut of the Unwell
FC event has happened, any of your own takeaways or

(29:50):
maybe standout comments that you saw from some of the
Supporters Group members that you had on the show that
stand out to you.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
I will say I was pleasantly something a little bit
more diluted than surprise necessarily by how thoughtful a lot
of the Supporters Group members were. I think that you
could probably characterize most supporters groups in the NWSL as
super super progressive, if not like straight up lefty. So

(30:16):
for them to say things like listen, I know that
everyone is out here just trying to make a buck,
I understand.

Speaker 4 (30:22):
I have no qualms.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
I'm not holding it against Alex Cooper for wanting to
get involved in the NWSL, because who wouldn't want to
be involved in the NWSL right now, I wasn't necessarily
expecting to hear them sort of preface their arguments with that,
and that to me speaks to a real sense of
thoughtfulness that I think at least people who are involved
in supporters' groups sort of embrace in the NWSL, which
is nice and I think it gives me some hope

(30:46):
about how these sorts of partnerships might work in the future,
especially if others who are interested to have listened to
or been following the way things went with Unwell. So
I think that was probably one of the more surprising
things that I heard, but it was a resounding Save
for one person that I spoke to who had ties
to the club team that he was supporting, he wasn't

(31:07):
an independent supporters group by any means. He formed the
group with the husband of one of the founders of AFC.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
But people are.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
Skeptical, and rightfully so. I mean, it's hard to not
sort of view what happened with Unwell and this sort
of corporate backed supporters group as like a colonial sort
of thing where you have these like indigenous actors who
have been organizing and building things from scratch with very
little resources. Most of them are volunteers, none of them
are getting paid to do this, who are now sort

(31:38):
of being imposed upon by people who have been like, oh,
look at this way to make money let me bring
myself and my sort of somewhat knowledge of what's going
on and just make shit happen.

Speaker 4 (31:49):
Sorry, can I curse?

Speaker 1 (31:50):
That just came out? Absolutely?

Speaker 3 (31:52):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (31:52):
Cool?

Speaker 2 (31:54):
And now there's a question of what happens to the
people who've been here all along, What does visibility look like,
what does investment look like, what is partnership with those
people look like. I will say things have been crickets
from the Unwell front since that game, And I'm just
realizing this because you're asking me now, I've barely even
been thinking about it myself. I will definitely be staying

(32:15):
tune because the plan is to sort of tour these
activations around the league, which probably is not going to
happen until the other side of the summer break. But
one thing that a supporters group mentioned to me that
I hadn't really considered is that where Unwell goes is
also going to be determined by the end of your
cell club's pre existing partnerships. So, for example, if an

(32:37):
end of you cl club has already partnered with a
beverage company, Unwell won't be able to sort of bring
themselves to that club because there's going to be a
conflict of interest, So if anyone is trying to sort
of predict where Unwell might land next, that's an important
filter to consider.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
A city is one of those.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah, Angel City is one of those clubs, for example,
because they partnered with Yoba Mante. I think they have
a gatorade partnership one with like a local winery, So
that was one of the more interesting things I learned
covering that story.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
Yeah, Meg, there's been criticism for things like on WELLFC,
and I think tamaraw of note in your comparison is
that whether or not supporters groups are consistently led by
people of color, which a lot of them are, they
are often led by LGBTQ plus people or other marginalized groups.
So whether the comparison goes toe to toe or apples
for apples when it comes to colonials usually being you know,

(33:31):
white folks going into spaces and trying to plunder them
for greed reasons, it does apply in terms of like
power dynamics and majority versus my minority or at least marginalized,
So I think it's a good analogy. Mega. Aside from UNWELLFC,
the league has some giant wins like Big valuation numbers
and new investors coming in. What excites you and what

(33:52):
concerned you about the NWSL right now? Because I know
you and I have talked kind off the record sometimes
about like what's going on, but then also like, oh
this is good, there's you know, there's a lot to
look at.

Speaker 3 (34:04):
Yeah, yeah, I think it is. I mean it's always
a big spag with the NWSL, right I think you
can point to the valuations, you can point to the
expansion fees. But I also think that there's now this
kind of I don't know, like almost doom lingering over
the NWSL when it comes to expansion, because Jessica Berman
has gone on the record a few times being like, hey,
we could be as big number wise as the NFL

(34:25):
when it comes to teams, and everybody's kind of looking
at that and being like does this league need to
be at thirty teams right now? So for every good story,
there's also this kind of big question mark hanging out
after it, being like what.

Speaker 4 (34:40):
Where where are you going with this?

Speaker 3 (34:42):
Because it doesn't seem to resemble where earth logic would
necessarily take you.

Speaker 4 (34:47):
So there's that part of it.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
I think what I'm also watching for from the NWSL
is like, yes, they've announced all the Pride stuff. I
think the teams are still very into it. But I
think the nw CL has not yet really figured out
how it wants to exist in the Trump world right
at the moment, and so I think there is some
real cautiousness, and there is you know, I think we've
been seeing.

Speaker 4 (35:09):
Some quotes about like this isn't DEI and it's.

Speaker 3 (35:13):
You also can't give up on some of the like
really founding values that the league has has had since
the beginning, And yeah, that's kind of what I'm watching
for right now, is just the path that is being charted.
I have, honestly probably a lot more questions than I

(35:34):
do sort of feeling confident. I think what has been
good is watching more kind of like big name partners
come in the title MLL deal.

Speaker 4 (35:42):
Though I will say the.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
Timing was really funny on that title mull deal, because
I don't know if anybody else is a dedicated Netflix watcher,
But over the past like a couple of days, right
as that deal got announced, the number one show on
Netflix was about the title Nall Murders in the eighties,
and I was like, oh, no, one's actually thinking about
like this in terms of tile all right now, But.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
No, I was thinking about how it was like tail
and all unwell, like our sponsorships are really starting to
reflect how we're all feeling right now.

Speaker 3 (36:07):
Yeah, I know it was like I am an advil Gurley,
but I can honestly I like the Painkiller front like
sure it's great, yeah, so's there's good, there's bad. I
think you know my question for the NB so honestly,
even you know post Lisa Baird, Jessica Berman coming in,

(36:27):
after you get through the crisis, right, what comes next?
And the business side has looked really really strong and
then departures from the front office. Tatiana, who ran the
sporting side, is going to leave. Julie Hadden was a
name that I don't think anyone expected to be departing
as chief commercial officer, and that was really I think

(36:48):
someone that if you interacted with her, you trusted her
and her sort of vision.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
And she was in the ownership group of the Stars
with me and then left and smartly got out of
it before the sale and everything else happened so that
she could divest and go to the league. And had
worked with the NFL in some really high level places before,
so it felt like sort of she was going to
be there for a while. I was surprised by that
as well.

Speaker 3 (37:09):
Right, So there's just a few things, and like I
think Julie Hadden and I would frequently kind of if
there is one area where I think we would have
some really interesting conversations, is just you know, using NFL
as an example for the NWSL, because I think there's
definitely some instructive stuff for the NWSL to take. Like
the NFL is the dominant professional sports league in America,

(37:32):
you have to be looking at it in what it's
doing in order to learn things from.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
It, right, And you can take pieces without embracing the.

Speaker 4 (37:38):
Whole correct, right.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
And so the sort of story that I've been kind
of keeping in the back of my head is the
nflification of the NWSL, right, and how that seems to
be the path that they really want to follow, whereas
you have maybe this alternate kind of like value slash,
you know, example of the WNBA, and how the WNBA

(38:03):
has like truly you know, gone mainstream in a way
that the end of Yousell still has yet to achieve,
and why they're kind of healing I would say right
towards the end of the NFL rather than left towards
the WNBA.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Well, and it's interesting too, and I've had some really
great conversations with Jessica Berman. I know that she has
her critics as well, but she came from men's sports.
A lot of her reference points and mentors are in
men's sports. And there are folks who have alleged, and
I have no idea if they have any factual evidence
behind this, but that they believe she's working toward a
return to a high profile job in men's sports. Everyone

(38:40):
thinks she's angling for the NHL for whatever reason. That's
just what's out there. I have never had a conversation
with her about that. And then you look at some
of the really powerful emerging leaders in women's sport, like
Jess Smith from the Valkyries. Totally when interviewed at every turn,
when they say you're going to be running the NFL,
she says, I don't want to. Yes, I want to
run women's sports. I want to do that in the

(39:00):
women's space. And again, I don't think anyone's asked jess
Berman that directly, so I don't want to mischaracterize anything
but it is interesting to your point, which ones are
veering toward. How do we do this differently while learning
from existing leagues versus how do we compare to the
things that make the most money, even though they're at
times at odds with the very center of who we
are and what we stand for, especially what our fans

(39:22):
stand for. For those who missed it, by the way,
the quote that Meg was referring to, jess Coberman and
the NASCL commissioner told Forbes quote, if you're a business
person and you look at sports investment as an asset class,
I do not actually see a world where it could
be justifiably viewed through the lens of DEI and social cause.
It is the same fundamental business as the men's leagues,
who have achieved incredible growth via the same exact investments

(39:44):
and revenue streams that we've already begun to tap and
in many ways remain untapped. And I think that's why
you're seeing the valuations continue to be validated. End quote.
Now that might be a message to investors that even
during the time of Trump, this is a good investment
because we don't rely on social issues. We are a
league that is independent of that and even if we're
being criticized or held back by the powers that be,

(40:05):
we'll still be fine. That's probably best, most generous version
of that. The other version is why are we running
away from the thing that has often been what drives
interest and support for women's sports. We'll have to have
that conversation another time, because we're running out of time tomorrow.
Before I we'll let you go, though I wanted to
ask the same thing of you. What are you excited
about and what has you concerned?

Speaker 2 (40:26):
I'm excited about the increased globalization of the NWSL. I
think once teams were given more space to bring in
players from outside the US, the game got a lot
more fun because now you have different game styles, you
have different objectives, especially on the player side, but even
I mean it's not as new to see this on
the manager side, but I think that when we get

(40:48):
more players from Asia, from Europe, from Africa, from South America,
from the Caribbean, the game just gets richer because it
was always meant to be played in this sort of globalized,
diverse way. My concern is to sort of pick up
from where the two of you left off in terms
of investment and who is paying attention to the end
of your cell, who's interested in getting involved. You know,

(41:11):
we're not going to be under a Trump administration forever,
and I just have questions about I mean, God willing
everything right, knock on all the woods, but I am
concerned about the people who are getting involved right now
what that's going to look like in the long run.
I think that there is a very understandable sensitivity toward

(41:34):
any time that the end of USL is mentioned in
context or comparison to any sort of men's sport. And
I think right now feels very much like an inflection
point where we're going to see those divergences between people
who are involved in the Indigo cell because they want
to work in women's sports and those who are drawn
to the power or even the stepping stone that this

(41:55):
might provide to get back into men's sports at a
higher level. I think we're going to get to a
point where we won't be able to ignore who's choosing
which path, which I think is a good thing, because
you want to know what you're signing up for, and
if you have an owner, if you have a GM,
if you have a coach who is just viewing this
as this sort of self contained stepping stone for them professionally.

(42:16):
It's going to become clear because I think we're going
to see that reflected in the table, We're going to
see that reflected in investment. We're going to see that
reflected into the success of these teams, which of course
is going to lead to revenue down the line. And
I think that's a good thing, because I'd rather know
what people are about from jump rather than having to
find out the hard way. So it's a concern, but
refreshing kind of I think.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
So my concern is the same as yours, and I
think it also ends up rolling out to decision making
down the line if you end up getting too many
people in there that are about either the stepping stone
or just about not quite having the money to be
a pro men's owner, but having the money to be
in the women's game, and then having their morals and
ideas and principles reflected in that team, and the way
it affects the league. I think the growing pains are

(42:59):
the thing that concerns me most. We want investment, we
want women to get paid, we want the league to
be successful, and we want our cake and eat it too.
And have it still be a league that we feel
aligned with and represents us in our values. And that's hard.
There's just not a lot of cool rich people. They're honest,
good rich people.

Speaker 4 (43:18):
Yeah, that's what I cool.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
Good, Yeah, kind, well meaning. The people who become billionaires
become them for a reason. There's like a couple that
are probably okay, and the rest of them like weren't
cool with many millions, why you have to ask that question,
why did you need more than that? And how are
you ever going to reconcile that with the kind of
things that this league and women's sports kind of stand for.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
Yeah, I do think it is really interesting. Just I
think just the the end of you cell in general, right,
and supporters in general, do have this true desire to
want end of you sell owners to be you know,
value aligned, sort of morally good, and that those days
were never present in the league, right, Like, that's the
part of the problem, is we the end of your

(43:59):
cell never had and then I think there was that
kind of over correction and now as the money flows in, right,
it's just it's not possible, and so there has to
be a line of a you know, reading owners like
a Michelle Kang right in good faith because I do
think based on every interaction, Yes, she is rich, she

(44:19):
has a lot of money. She is so many gruithless
like great fashion right, like she is ruthless. I think
she is good, well intentioned, but like not above critique, right,
and like she's not going to get everything right. She's
not going to do stuff that every fan agrees with
all of the time. And so you like you just
have to have a whole bunch of things be true

(44:42):
at the same time, and that when it comes to ownership,
it's just really it's really hard to grapple with.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
And I try to keep myself always full of questions
instead of just definitive feelings, because I guarantee that some
of these folks would say, if you came into a
room and now you gave me five hours to explain
to you, why can't be exactly what you want all
the time and also get the money and the players
and the stadium and the things that you want, you
might understand it a little more. That's not a release

(45:10):
to be a terrible person and make terrible things. But
there is that balance of like sometimes the people that
are successful, they do have to have a give and
take with stuff that those of us who don't want
to be put in those positions and making those decisions
would be unwilling to make. And you know, oh my god,
there's so much more I want to talk about, because
now you brought up the fact that Michelle Kank's coach
is going to a different Michelle Kank King and we

(45:31):
never got to talk about that, and we never got
to talk about whether Emma Hayes has a particular ie
for folks that are playing in European leagues instead of
American and that's why she's playing them a little bit more.
But we'll have to have you back, so thank you
so much for the time. I always love catching up
with both of you. Everybody, of course already is listening
to Full Time with Meg Glenham, but if they aren't,
what the hell are you doing? You could be listening
to this once a week and sometimes more, depending on

(45:52):
if you listen to the other elements of the podcast
that come out every Monday, which I always listen to.
But yeah, thank you so much for coming out, Thanks
for having us. We got to take another break when
we come back. We take credit for the WNBA's newest viewer,
stick around, Welcome back, slicas. We love that you're listening,

(46:17):
but we want you to get in the game every
day too, So here's our good game play of the day.
Listen to Wednesday's episode of Full Time with Meglenahan called
is Michelle Kang's multi club ownership good for women's soccer?
As you could tell, there was so much I wanted
to talk to Megan Tamaherr about, and as I mentioned,
the news that the Washington Spirits head coach Jonathan Heraldaz
is headed to another of Michelle Kank's teams, ohel Leon

(46:39):
was one of those things I wanted to talk about.
So I guess instead of listening to me ask Megan
Tamayor about it, go listen to them discuss it on
their pod. Instead. We'll link to that episode in the
show notes. And we always love to hear from you,
so hit us up on email good game at wondermedianetwork
dot com or leave us a voicemail at eight seven
two two oh four fifty seventy, and don't forget to subscribe,

(47:01):
rate and review, y'all. It's real easy. Just take it
from these slices who didn't forget and who left us
five stars. Jay Bing five one two wrote, quote nailing it.
I've been a fan of Sarah's work for a long
time and was psyched to see this pod. This team's
attention to detail and intersectional lens make this an essential
and fun listen for any women's sports fan. Thank you

(47:23):
or l Robinson ten thirty, who said, quote my favorite
sports show. I've listened to many podcasts about my favorite
sports teams over the years, but this one does an
amazing job at pulling me into leagues I'm not even
familiar with. I've been a big NWSL fan, but this
year I've enjoyed watching the p WHL and look forward
to watching my first season of the WNBA. End quote. Ah,

(47:45):
we love a WNBA virgin. Enjoy the ride, El Robinson,
and thanks to both of you for writing in. Now
it's your turn slices. If you haven't done it yet,
come on rate and review. Thanks for listening, See you tomorrow.
Good game, Good game, Tamara, You rich people that aren't
cool or kind? Good Game with Sarah Spain is an

(48:07):
iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports
and Entertainment. You could find us on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by
Wonder Media Network. Our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones.
Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan
and Emily Rutterer. Our editors are Emily Rutterer, Britney Martinez,

(48:28):
Grace Lynch, and Gianna Palmer. Our associate producer is Lucy
Jones and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Host

Sarah Spain

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

24/7 News: The Latest

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Footy Daddy with Meg Linehan and Tamerra Griffin