December 17, 2024 • 45 mins
Group chat is BACK! Sarah is joined by actor, musician and podcast host E.R. Fightmaster and comedy writer and stand-up Erin Foley to talk about their respective podcasts, Caitlin Clark’s Time Magazine interview, marketing the modern female athlete, and the sports “F*** Yous” they’d like to deliver. Plus, the PWHL is back, the WNBA is going international - kind of - and a tip for all those links you clicked but haven’t gotten to.
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Pick up a copy of Slaying the Trolls! Why the Trolls are Very, Very Wrong About Women and Sports here or here
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And follow E.R.'s hilarious co-hosts, Tien Tran and Katie Kershaw!
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If you somehow STILL haven’t seen The Power of the Dream documentary, get on that here
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Try out Pocket.com for yourself
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Leave us a voicemail at 872-204-5070 or send us a note at goodgame@wondermedianetwork.com
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where our attention
is being stolen away from women's sports by the trophy
for the Pop Tart Bowl. It's an actual functioning toaster, y'all.
I don't care about the game. I don't care about
the teams. I do care about the toaster trophy and
that sexy ass Pop Tart mascot. It's Tuesday, December seventeenth,
(00:20):
and if you think me lusting after a Pop Tart
mascot is unhinged. Buckle up for today's show because we
got a hilarious and occasionally off the rails group chat
with actor and podcast host er Fight Master and comedy
writer and stand up Aaron Foley. Plus the BWHL is back,
the WNBA is going international kind of, and a tip
for all those links you click but haven't gotten to yet,
(00:43):
it's all coming up right after this welcome back. Here's
what you need to know today. The WNBA announced on
Monday that the league's first ever international regular season game
will be played next season between the Atlanta Dream and
Seattle Storm in Vancouver, British Columbia. Rogers Arena will host
(01:07):
the two teams for a game on August fifteenth, and
while it's technically international, it'll still be Seattle's closest away
game of the season. Vancouver's just over one hundred miles
north of Climate Pledge Arena in Seattle. In college hoops,
we've got some movement in the AP rankings following a
couple big matchups last week. Ucla is still locked in
at the number one spot, but notre Name climbed five
(01:28):
spots to number three thanks to their win over Yukon.
And speaking of Yukon, in the Huskies face another tough
opponent tonight in Iowa State. Iowa State just fell out
of the top twenty five after losing to Iowa in
the Iowa Corns Syhawk series, so you know the Cyclones
will be looking to make the most out of playing
another ranked opponent. By the way, I've said Syhawk multiple
(01:48):
times and I just realized it's Cyclones plus Hawks Syhawk.
Cool to three x three basketball, the team USA women
won silver at the PHOEBA three x three AmeriCup in
Porto Rico over the weekend after winning their group and
defeating Chile and Puerto Rico in the quarterfinals and semifinals.
The US team of Abby Sue Matty segrest Azare Stevens
(02:09):
and Britney Sykes fell to Canada in the final nineteen eighteen.
In overtime. Sykes was named the Al Tournament Team, while
Canadian player Paige Crozen was named MVP. To Hockey, The
PWHL is back in action tonight following a week long
international break. The Boston Fleet hosts the Ottawa Charge tonight.
We'll link to the full upcoming PWHL schedule in our
(02:32):
show notes to Soccer Across the Pond. Prize money for
the twenty twenty five Women's European Championship is set to
double following a pledge from UEFA, the European soccer governing body.
Now there's still a long way to go. The sixteen
women's teams that compete next July in Switzerland will share
a prize pool of forty one million euros that's about
(02:52):
forty three million US dollars, while the men's championship has
a total purse of three hundred thirty one million euros.
So yeah, ways to go. The European Championship is held
once every four years, and the last time the attorney
was held it broke attendance record after attendance record, concluding
with more than eighty seven thousand fans squishing into Wembley
Stadium to watch England defeat Germany in extra time. Quick
(03:16):
me a kolpa from yours truly. Last week we shouted
out the books in our Good Game book Club, from
interviews we've done with authors to books we've recommended when
we've talked about different athletes and leagues and issues, and
I forgot one. David Barry and Nefwalker came on the
show in mid November for a great convo about their
book Slaying the Trolls, Why the Trolls are very, very
wrong about women and sports. It was a fantastic conversation
(03:38):
and it's a fantastic book and such a great holiday
present for anyone who cares about women's sports, understanding their
potential and economic opportunity, their history, and why the future
looks so bright. So my apology is to David Neff.
But now I got your own little shout out, So
all's forgiven by the book local bookstore. Please, We're going
to take a quick break slices when we come back.
Genderless Gap Ads, Ron Swanson and Low Bunny. It's time
(04:01):
for group Chat with the hilarious Er and erin It's
time for another edition of group Chat where we take
the t from the text and we put it on
the airwaves. Joining us. They're an actor known for work
on Gray's Anatomy and Shrill, one of three co hosts
of the hilarious podcast Jocular, and a musician. Last year,
(04:23):
they released their debut EP Violence through their solo music
project fight Master. They love to take a perve minute
for a rock climber's hands. It's Er fight Master. What's up?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Er?
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
What an intro? Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
You're welcome. Joining Er. She's a comedy writer, stand up comedian,
and the host of the hur Lights podcast. Her writing
credits include two seasons of that ninety show, One Day
at a Time, and the sb Award. She's a massive
sportsman and she probably dated your ex girlfriend. It's Aaron Boley.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Oh my god, nailed it, nailed it.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
If you remember Aaron's past appearance. We went to the
bar at the WNBA All Star Game and connected with
her snow sister snowballs. What's that called again?
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Oh god, I don't even know.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Is that term for like when you both the same
people snowball snowball sisters.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
I have so many snowballs sisters that I bet you
do everywhere I go, just another snowball sister.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Thanks for joining. How do you all know each other?
Because Aaron, you helped wrangle er because I didn't have
R's number, but you did.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
We just met actually at a UCLA basketball I don't
know what would you call that? A fundraiser? Fundraiser and
we were sitting next to each other. I was like, Hey,
what's going on? And then we were fast friends because
we're just ripping on everything.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
But I also I also believe that it's a bit
of vanity because I think we kind of look alike,
and so I think we were like, should we be friends? Yeah,
there was a real ease of communication. And actually I
remember watching your stand up God and the person I
was with at the time, they're like, Jesus, y'all could
be related. And then so then when we met it,
(06:02):
the thing I had a really deep like went through
a like a tunnel of like recollection, which is why
I think you said your name and I kind of
held like your hand and shook it for too long.
I was back here. I was having a that' so
raven moment.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
I could see it. I could see it for sure. Yer,
I want you to tell us. Speaking of names, I'm
sure you've said this a million times, but for our
listeners that haven't heard it, can you explain your social
media name genderless gap Ad.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I came into a theater rehearsal one time dressed in
all denim and a white hat, and my director at
the time went, you look like a genderless gap Ad
and I said, I'm changing my handle right now.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, and it is very appropriate. I've never asked or
wondered about an origin story. It just felt right.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
No, And sometimes, like I'm walking around, people will say, like,
I think I have a memorable real name, but people
will be like, genderous gap Pad. It's kind of awesome.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah, I mean, fight master is your real name, so
you'd think anyone at any time would go for that one.
But there is a really nice ring to genderless gap Ad.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I think people think I'm I think people think I'm
talking with them with the fight master thing, and so
sometimes I think people avoid saying it because they're like,
you're not going to get me, Like everybody else might
believe this, but not me.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
That's funny genderless gap pad just rolls off the tongue. Yeah,
does just look at you and I'm like, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
That's like there was a certain time where any photo
that had a diverse group of people in it, we
would always say it looked like a Benetton ad. Do
you remember that? Oh yeah, I'm aging myself. Maybe er
doesn't remember. Aaron and I are closer in age, but yeah,
that was like you do. That was the go too.
Is it looks like a Benetton ad? Okay, Aaron, you
were on before. This is your triumphant return to group chat.
(08:03):
But for those who might have missed it, give us
a quick summary of her lights and why people should
watch and listen to it.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Well, I've been obsessed with women's sports since nineteen twelve,
and so I just decided I started it actually ten
years ago and when no one was paying attention, which
is always good timing, and then I took a couple
of years off, did a rebrand. So it's just basically
like a weekly deep dive conversation in the world of
women's sports for like an athlete, coach, reporter, journalist, And
(08:32):
it's just like kind of you know, trying to elevate
them as a human, elevate the sport, and yeah, just
getting to know them as like human beings versus like
x's and o's. I mean, sometimes it gets nerdy, but
I just love like hearing people's origin stories and how
they got into what they're doing. And yeah, I just
love meeting people. Literally I could talk to like a
(08:52):
new person for like an hour and a half about nothing,
so pretty much it's pretty fun and nerdy and yeah,
and I try to keep it light and fun. There's
there's no like hard hitting journalist questions.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
You ever on the phone and the other person drops
out and you wonder how long you were talking before
you realize that they weren't there anymore. Because that's me
with both new people and like walls, Like I could
talk to like inanimate objects for a good hour before
I'm like, oh, we're not talking. You did some interviews
on the road lately with like Rene Stubbs and Anti Costable.
What are those? Are those a specific kind of episode
(09:26):
or a different kind of tour?
Speaker 3 (09:28):
I think I think what it is is like when
you start something new and you get really excited and
then you just put five live tour dates on your
calendar and you have no idea what's going to happen.
I would encourage everybody to crawl outside of their comfort
zone and then also drink. But it was it was
really fun. I just was like, what if I just
(09:48):
tried to combine and stand up comedy in a live podcast.
I'm not saying it was a cute, it was I
would tweak the format. Yeah, just honestly talking like with
Annie about Chicago Sky and WNB and like her life
as a reporter and how she got into it in
front of a live, you know, a live audience. It
was so much fun. It was fantastic, you know. So
(10:09):
and then Renee, you know, I've known her forever. We
met at a comedy club a long time ago, randomly
and then I stalked her gently. So yeah, we talked
about like, you know, tennis, and she's a big Liberty
fan and so it was just it was just so fun.
I had like the time of my life. So hopefully
we do some I try to get you. You were
my first ask and chicken, I know, and I.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Was so bummed to miss because the night that you
had it was my big Halloween night party. So I
was dressed like Ellie the Elephant, and it would have
been a perfect time to crash your event. It just
was complete other side of town. So we're gonna do
it another time. Once you tweak, I'll just be like
the debut episode of the better and nearly tweaked version,
perfect perfect Er. I'm obsessed with jocular as you know,
I was recently on the podcast, so everyone can go
(10:51):
find the episode, right, guest, Thank you. It was so
much fun. It makes me laugh so much. It's my
It's one of two podcast that when I listen walking
down the street, I'm fully aware that I look like
a lunatic because I'm just walking alone laughing. And it's
probably not clear I AirPods. And what was the genesis
for that podcast? What inspired it? Uh?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
The genesis was twenty twenty Actually we were, you know,
Katie and Tiana and I were all in our respective
homes and we were all sending these memes back and forth,
and you know, like twenty twenty months obviously the year
where all of these people that were otherwise not watching
women's sports had no option but to start watching women's sports,
(11:32):
and so you were starting to see all the dialogue
start to happen, and in some graceful ways and some
ungraceful ways about women and the color of their skin
and the amount they were making and whether or not
they had children and all this stuff. And and Tienna
and I are all very like activist based, we're big
old feminists, and we were just kind of, you know,
(11:55):
we're so fascinated by the sports themselves, but really becoming
fascinated with Oh, this is going to be the come
together point for so many important cultural conversations that we're
not willing to have, and we want to be there
for that conversation, and we want to do it in
a funny way. And so that was the genesis of it,
(12:17):
and it's mutated in a beautiful way into this very fun,
lighthearted queer thing. And our goal is always to bring
in listeners that have felt excluded from the sports space
and people that maybe did not play sports or don't
know anything about sports at all, who don't want to
hear anything about statistics.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
They want to come.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
They want to hear us talk and joke about the
women and queer people who play sports and do it beautifully,
and then they get to feel like they are supporting
all of these leagues full of women that are all
on their margins, you know, And so I think I
think the listeners feel good, we feel good doing it,
and it's just been a great experience.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah, I am really waiting for the seminal work that
someone writes about twenty twenty, because I'm sure there's been
so many think pieces and like shorter things, but it's
really fascinating how much came out of stillness or a
forced just slowing down. And so for a lot of people,
it's been really hard to go back, and a lot
(13:17):
of people really struggled with like getting back up to
speed after they finally slowed down. But also so many
people finally like looked around and like created a new business,
created a company, started a podcast, wrote a book, did
all these things that like all they really needed was
enough time to like stop for one second and listen
to their own thoughts. And same goes with like all
of our collective reckonings around so many major issues. It's like,
(13:39):
if we're busy enough, let's just keep avoiding talking about
institutional racism and women getting the shaft. Not literally no
perf moment there, but yeah, and then instead we have
this opportunity and the question is are we actually going
to learn from that at all going forward and try
to incorporate more of that stillness and time and space
into what we do so we can more creative and
(14:01):
fine possibility, or are we immediately rushing back to like
that was a little scary and much so let's fill
every second of our day again. You know what the.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Bravest thing to me about twenty twenty, it was either
twenty twenty or twenty twenty one where we had the
WNBA bubble twenty twenty right twenty twenty, I think, and
we had we had the bubble, and these women who
are in this league that was like largely unwatched by
most of America, all of these like a league that's
like eighty percent black women, they finally have the mic
(14:30):
that people are finally watching their games. And at the
same time, the BLM movement is happening in full force,
and those women without missing ab are like, we're going
to use this as an opportunity to do activism and
to speak up about you know, police violence and what
we believe in. And there was I was just like, whoa, Like,
(14:51):
the camera's finally on you, and none of you are like, okay, wait,
you guys, this is our time to be really palatable.
This is the time to win the hearts. Mind they
fully were coming in with those like T shirts, everyone.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Wear half shirts, your hair up, cute.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Big bikinis. Hid the lesbianism. They were fully like no,
like say her name, like I don't know.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
I found it so brave.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
And then played the Best Basketball Hours lead. It was
mind blowing. I mean, par the dream that documentary. If
you haven't seen it, you have to. Everybody has to
see that.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah, but it also was like yet another lesson of
like actually leaning into authenticity and standing for something. Is
the women's sports space. It is the women's sports space.
It is what drives and interests people in addition to
great sport. And yes, some people are just there to
watch great sport. Awesome, and so many other people. To
your point, here are the people who listen to your
(15:45):
podcast want to be a part of something they've never
been invited to before. And the way to do that
is to stop thinking about what the average man wants
and instead thinking about what matters to you and how
you want. I have a friend who has never been
interested in sports, and she saw Megan Repina do an
interview saying We're not going to the fucking White House,
and she was like, who is this? What's happening? I'm
interested right, this queer friend of mine, I like this,
(16:08):
what's happening? Decided to go to a US Women's National
team watch party in the park in Chicago. We have
these big like screens and bars and setups when there's
big moments like that here in Chicago. But she brought
a book because she was like, I think I'm going
to be bored, and then a little picnic blanket and
like sat really far away from everybody else and then
was like by the end of it, booking flights to
(16:29):
go to friendlies in other cities and like buying merchant
was like, oh my god, whatever this is, I'm obsessed
with it, and like that's it. I asked her I
wanted to interview her after that for a espnW story
because I was so intrigued, and I was like, when
was the last time you were at a sports stadium, like,
because she went to Soldier Field for one of the
US Women's National team games and she said, does Taylor
(16:49):
Swift count And I was like, no, it doesn't count
as a sporting event that you last went to. Anyway,
I think that is fascinating earon that they lean and
so hard and it worked.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
I will say we did cover the eras to her
as a sporting event on Jocular because of it, because
being three hours long and running for months and months
and months, and so that's all I'll say for the
swifties out there.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yeah, well, and Taylor inspired a lot of other people
to start running on the treadmill trying to do what
she did for three hours and realizing that she is
literally superhuman. Okay, let's talk Caitlyn Clark. This Time magazine
interview was incredible. Also, wish it had run I don't know,
six months ago. Yeah, it's a lot of time and conversation.
(17:37):
But of course, the inevitable is the reaction from the
folks who are saying they will now stop rooting for
and watching her. The die hard basketball fans who were
very much there for the basketball will now stop watching
and rooting for her because she mentioned the word privilege,
and she talked about how great it would be if
we acknowledge and lifted up black players who helped make
the league what it is and continue to do so. Aaron,
(17:57):
this is predictable potentially even just parroting conversations other people
are seeing there. It might not even be people that
believe this, they're just like, Oh, I want to be
a part of this anti woke thing, so let me
copypaste that. I'm not watching Caitlin anymore. But what is
your reaction to her finally saying the thing that a
lot of people were sort of waiting for her to articulate,
and what that means going forward for the league, whether
(18:19):
it can actually help repair some of the stuff that
we saw so terribly manifest la last season.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Yeah. Well, first of all, my reaction to people saying
they're not going to watch her again or watch the WNBA, great,
bye bye, Masia. Just put slide that manhole cover over,
crawl back in to your humanity adjacent life. You obviously
had no experience any of the mission statements from day
(18:46):
one about the w what the WNBA stands for, you know,
just inclusion and equity and social justice. They obviously have
missed that for the last twenty eight seasons, so good
riddance to that. We got to wed those out anyway.
So but yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, she was
under so much pressure every single time. Like it's just
(19:06):
I felt like, God, we needed to give we have
a little a little bit more patience, you know that
all of a sudden, you can play the highest level
of basketball, what is she you know, fifteen and then
speak eloquently about race and inclusion and equit, you know
what I mean. So, but obviously she has a responsibility too.
So I think the article and I you know, I'm
(19:27):
I'm kind of blown away by her first of all,
long time coming, but like also gave her a lot
of like leeway to have those learning curve for sure,
But I'm just so impressed, like how comfortable she is
in her own skin, Like that's pretty amazing that, you know,
for her just to kind of sit back and be
like this is who I am and blah blah blah.
And it seemed really sincere and not like a pr move.
(19:50):
And so yeah, I'm hoping we just get back to like,
you know, awesome basketball in twenty twenty five and not
have these like idiots, you know, trolling around saying the
dum miss shit.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Well, she also provided some really good sort of antidotes
to some of the things that people were pissed about
like Danna Tarrossi saying, like, you know, get ready, rook,
this is gonna be a tough league. And then here
we have Kaitlyn Clark literally saying, I was blown away
by how shitty the other college players were. They were
terrible at guarding me. Were they even trying. That's not
a direct quote, but essentially she came hard with it
(20:22):
and honest, and she's allowed to say that, and more
power to her. But that's the kind of stuff that
other players were saying, and they were accused of bullying
and not being welcoming and hating her and resenting her,
and it's like, no, this is just how basketball players
talk about basketball, and now that she's doing it too,
can we stop with that garbage? And like, er, that's
I think you know, you were just mentioning people feeling
(20:43):
welcome to talk about sports or at least dip a
toe into sports on your show. A lot of people
dipped a toe into the WNBA because of Caitlyn Clark,
and for some of them when they got there, it
was a disappointment to see like that lady that will
never forget with the fake and nails that she put
on her her hands to try to attack djan A
Carrington and make the space something that it hadn't been
(21:06):
at all, And I think like, hopefully this can get
us back to some of the ways we felt about
going to a WNBA game and women's sports space, where
it isn't so like everyone's at odds.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I think that you're right, Aaron, in the sense of like,
these conversations that we are having now because we have
people like Kitten and we have people like Angel Reese,
they are conversations that actually needed to happen. And when
I see people trolling the league, I feel very blessed
that they've made themselves so apparent so that we don't
have to invite them to anything or give a shit
(21:38):
about what they think at all. I loved this article
with Caitlin because I loved that how when they said
that she lacked any false humility, she really did. There
was like She's like, I'm a great player. This is
what I've done for the league, this is the visibility
(21:59):
I got. So when she says like, yeah, like I'd
love to say I worked for all of it, but
I am. You know, I do have privilege, I was like, yeah,
well that if you let line up every other thing
that she said in that interview, and how honest it
was there, there would be no reason why that one
would not also be honest and off the cuff, even
if it was rehearsed. But I think she's also had
(22:23):
time to watch other white players handle these discussions, Like
I think Paige Becker's has done a really remarkable job
kind of always saying, you know, yes, great, thank you
so much for the attention, and here's all the black
women that helped me get here. And so I think
I think Caitlyn has been able to watch people and
kind of soak that information in so that when she
(22:44):
says these things now about like yeah, God love to
say I'd worked for it, but it is partially privileged,
it feels very natural.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, I'm just proud of her. I was proud of her.
But I think it also, like to Aaron's point, like
giving her enough grace to get there organically made sense
because Paigeers grew up in a mixed family, like you
just had a whole life of figuring out and being
right up next to all this stuff. And Kaylin's just
a white girl from Iowa, who sure could she gotten
there faster through any number of ways, but she didn't,
(23:13):
and here she is and it's and it's you know,
she's twenty two years old and I think still.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
In the calendar year. I mean she was raised in
like a cornstalk, you know, like, how how are you
supposed to get so eloquent? I mean, you want everybody
we're like projecting our own experience and how we would
handle things and saying she should have done it this way.
But then you take a second and you're like, she
is a kid, right, like from the whitest of white,
(23:40):
you know, just concentrating head down, just wanted to play basketball.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
And when when male athletes are that kind of neurotic
obsessive about their their skill, we allow it in a
way that we never do with women athletes, because, like
with everything else, we expect the people who are the
most marginalized to speak to their victimization and expect the
people doing the victimizing to have zero clue that they're
even doing it or any thoughts on it. And so
(24:06):
with male athletes, we're like, oh, my gosh, she's just
single minded and it's all he cares about. And with women,
it's like, oh, she's pretending not to know, so she
doesn't have to speak on it, right, it's just such
a different treatment.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yes, er well, I was thinking about that savage line
that she had because it's it jumped out to me too.
But she says, she says those girls like don't have
any basketball IQ and those those women will never play
basketball again. And I was like, oh my god, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah, that's how you get great, and like it's up
to everybody to decide for themselves. Do I want to
be Michael Jordan or do I want to you know,
figure out some balance. But it shouldn't be working out
for her right now. Caitlin Clark and Alone mar were
two of the like big breakout stars of this year.
Do y'all see any parallels? Are there ways we can
look at their appeal beyond sport? Anything we can learn
(25:03):
about their explosive popularity that can inform how we market
or present women's sports and athletes, because in a lot
of ways they are very different.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Yeah, I mean, I was just thinking that, like a
like a quick parallel is really what we came back to,
Like comfortable in your own skin, you know, which is
like a radical act when all of society is just
trying to make you feel uncomfortable every minute of the day,
and then you feel so uncomfortable about everything, then you
start buying everything. I mean, you know, there's no feel
good in capitalism, you know. So these these two women
(25:36):
at the top of their game, so young, but at
the top of their game, they've achieved success, and you
feel like you know them, you know, you feel comfortable.
They're so comfortable. And I'm not saying they don't have like,
you know, self esteem moments or whatever, but I don't know,
it just it just feels like they're so authentic. They're
comfortable in their own skin, and it's empowering, you know.
(25:57):
And I think if we market that for like, you know,
women and athletes and women's sports, of just letting them
be themselves. You know. I used to get so uncomfortable
watching the WIBA fits because it's like my worst nightmare
to put on address and it can but it's so
awesome to see everybody just go into the arena just
(26:18):
perfect like how they want to be. So I think
it's just leaning into that. Authenticity is just huge, and
it's as you can see, like in all these new
leagues and all this like fervor around women's sports I
think that is a very you know, true connection.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah, yard, do you see parallels?
Speaker 2 (26:37):
I do, But my the parallel that I see is
as a little harsh. I think that America really loves
a white girl that feels like family, and and part
of that is that they are desexualized. And Caitlin is
(26:59):
not a particularly like she's not leaning into any type
of hyper femininity. And all of the conversations about Alonemar
are about her weight and her height and her broad
shoulders and all these things. And so they're kind of
these women that are we almost are feeling protective of them.
(27:19):
Of course in that like you know, white supremacist way
that we do feel protective of white women. I think
we're also feeling like we are like rallying around. They're
not getting the vitriol that women who identify and focus
on being hot would get. Right. So, even Angel Reese
(27:40):
is a person who's like, you know, wearing nails and
getting her hair laid like edges laid for these games,
and is putting on makeup, and she's getting the vitriol
that we give women on a daily basis for.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Simply were trying.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yes, any any woman that tries and enjoys like the
presentation of like being a hot girl whatever, like that's
when we get mad. And of course when Alona did
the the swimsuits, yeah, that was when there was any
like the most of course negative like trolls come out
of the woodwork for that kind of thing, because this
is her attempt at, like, you know, trying that version
(28:16):
of femininity. But I don't know, I think they've both
got this like sister thing where we've decided that they're there,
they are respectfully de sexualized, and so we can treat
them like we would any woman in our family that
we don't want to have sex with.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
I mean, and.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
That's why I think that white America, specifically white males
have come around Caitlin like like every every man I
talked to you about Caitlin Clark, you would think that
she grew up in their hometown.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
It's it's interesting too because there's there's also and definitely
more so before we've evolved into more disparate presentations of
women that are acceptable. But it used to be that
only the sexualized women athletes got love and attention, and
it was the ones that were like Caitlin or alone
(29:11):
who weren't leaning enough into their sexuality that were presented
as why women's sports is n't attractive were not what
we want because they're not feminine enough. But now it's
like there's these different spaces in which we allow women
to exist and yeah, it's in you hadn't thought of
that about them, of the sort of girl next door,
(29:31):
but not the Alex Morgan type of girl next door.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Well, and I think we can like traditionally for American
gay gay people are invisible in this beautiful.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Sense, like right here where I'm right here over here,
and I.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Say beautiful sense because in like a truly mocking way
where you know, like people thinking that being gay is
like people think that being trans is new, right, They're
like four years all of these and you're like, oh
my god in the water. Yes, like it truly truly.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Invisible mind milk.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Yes, So we have to don't give them that suggestion.
I promise you that will be a headline next week.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
If you well, it might be the almond milk. We
can't rule it out, but we don't know. But it
was like when when the w NBA was I think
one of the reasons it hasn't done well is because
we they were not pandering to the male gaze in
so many ways, and when they did, it was like
kind of clownish because they're all so just energetically butch,
(30:37):
even if they're straight, they're energetically but we can't we
can't avoid that. And and gay people are invisible. And
so it was truly men being like, what is the
w NBA, right, Like, so it's gay women were invisible.
And then hot women are the subject of vitriol because
we just for some reason we hate femininity, and we
also hate an absence of femininity, and it's just impossible
(30:59):
to be a woman.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Well also, if we if we find you very attractive,
we don't want you to ruin it. What they've said
for years two about comedy, right, we're uncomfortable with women
who are hot making themselves less hot in pursuit of
a laugh. So we like women who are not like
the hottest person in the movie to be the funny ones.
Otherwise it's offensive that they're taking away their best and
most important virtue, which is the same with hot female athletes.
(31:23):
It's like, we like you in the ads, but once
you're on the field, please don't take away from your
hotness by being aggressive or physical or otherwise.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
Like I just had this this vision er when you
were talking about everything was invisible. How men watch the WNBA.
All they can just see is a ball. They just
see the ball going down the court, but they can't
see anything. It's like ghost.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
It's like ghost when like he was making the inanimate
stuff move to show her there.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Yes, that's how they watched it. That's how men watch.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
The WS podcast is only for people over forty. I'm
so sorry. So far I've been referencing Ghost and Benetton
really keeping it tightly into.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
You're bringing culture to the young people.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
That's right, that's right. Speaking of culture, I have to
ask y'all, do you have one like prime complaint about
the way TV shows, movies, or comedians get things wrong
when they're joking or making content about female athletes and
women's sports. Mine is always that somehow, if they decide
to throw in a woman on the co ed team
just for like like hang time or space jam, there's
(32:25):
like token woman. She never wears the uniform everyone else wears.
She's always in a bra top like a sports bra
or a crop top. Like why doesn't she wear the
same uniform. Ever, Oh, cast they have one. They casted
the cartoon and they could only find a cartoon who
wore exclusively crop tops.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Well, if I had that body, I would be wearing
that too.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Yeah, Lola Banish, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
I just think there's no in between. It's either the
woman is like yeah, like ultra femme and she can't
play and she's like, oh my boob, and it's like
if she's playing, it's like to get the guy, and
she's just like, you know, throwing like a toddler, you know,
and you're just like, I can't who is this person?
Or it's the butchiest of butch Lesbo's that's just like
(33:14):
it's just a scene where she's walking through the house
and like tackling her furniture, you know, and you're like, what,
none of none of this happens, Like how about the
in between?
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yeah, that's fair, So say the extremes.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
My my my least favorite misconception. I think that this
happens because of bend Attle, Like Beckham is, when there's
any like plot line or joke about like a coach
and a player having sexual likes. Always I can't express
the people who don't play sports the relationship with you
(33:48):
you have with your coach is like if you had
a third parent that you hated but you weren't allowed
you like, you can't get estranged from them at any point. Yeah,
And they're also they're also like a leader of a
dictatorship that you're living under in silence. And there's somehow
even if they're forty years old, they are elderly to you,
(34:10):
and so there's just there's like it's the very opposite.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
I don't know. I had one hot coach, so I
kind of get it. I hadn't I had a hot coach,
my high school track coach. Everybody knew he was hot.
During Valentine's Day, you could buy a singing telegram Valentine
for people and like someone would walk into their class
and be like, hey, Sarah. I wouldn't know because no
one bought me any But in theory it would have
gone that someone a handful of people from the chorus
(34:35):
would walk in and be like, Hey, Sarah, this is
from you know, Todd, and it would be like, you
know something about why can't I be a teenager in
love or whatever whatever that song is. And I was
in class. So he was also an econ teacher, and
he had like nine of them. So they just said,
mister Clagg, you got nine of these. They're all anonymous.
(34:56):
We're just gonna sing them all at once.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Oh my god. Yeah, like that that was his vibe.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Okay, So I'm not saying it's he was young, so
like when he started teaching, he was like mid to
late twenties, so he's not that far off from the
people he's like teaching and coaching. Anyway, My point is
it is conceivable that you might want to have sex
with your coach, but it's best, because of a million reasons,
to not always have the storyline be that the woman
bones her coach, because, first of all, that happens too
much in real life, and usually it's because of an
(35:22):
imbalance of power that's caused by the coach being toxic
and abusive, so let's not make it a cool storyline. Also,
Pure Knightley was like twelve in every movie where she
was actually active, she was like seventeen in love.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Actually, Sarah, have you ever considered freestyle wrapping? You speak
so quickly off the dome, sorry, so elegantly. I'm like,
let's put it to music.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
You know what, people have always said we need another
white rapper.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
I've been saying that for years.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Oh my god. Even my mother says that, yes.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
I need to fill the space.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
It is true, though, I will second because I obviously
I listen to you, well both do your shows, but
I can't sometimes I stop. And I've gotten my partner, Sarah,
to listen.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
To your show too.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Sarah, I go, it's so she speaks so quickly, and
it's like a plus. It's like and then and I'm like,
wait what And then normal podcasts I do like one
point five or one point twenty five. For you, it's
almost like point seventy five.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
I wouldn't recommend it, just wouldn't recommend it very fast.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
No, but it's amazing You're you're so good at it.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yeah, here's my No. I've got to give you one
more compliment. When when I got home from the recording
of the interview, you to a jocular, I was like,
I was talking to my partner and I was like,
it was so she's so powerful. It was like, I
feel like I need to go to the gym.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Big gym energy. I don't know if that's a compliment,
to be honest.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
I did I went to the gym. I went to
the gym and I thought about all your accomplishments and
I did cardio.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
That's my king good about that? Yeah? Yeah, I feel
I mean, I told you last time that you said
I was funny at the SPNW Seve, and I've told
so many people that. Now I'm going to tell people
I inspired you to lift. Yes, and they can read
whatever they want into that. Okay, we're running out of time,
but we have to go a little bit over because
(37:33):
I really need your answers for this next question, because
I think they're going to be good. We need your
favorite women's sports reference and pop culture. For example, Out
of Nowhere, Parks and rec Ron Swanson says, you know,
an ideal night out for me is stepping onto my
poor chariot, grilling a thick slab of something's flesh, and
then popping in a highlight reel of the WNBA like
it's a surprising moment on that show. You don't see
(37:54):
it coming. Gloria, the Paul Pell character on Girls, Girls
I've Ever, says I'm bad at letting go. I have
a Sims character named Val who's been shooting hoops for
twenty years.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
I love that show so much.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
It's the best show. Liz Lemon was part of the
Timeless Torches WNBA dance team for The Liberty on thirty Rock.
There's some good ones. So do you have one that like,
maybe he surprised you or you just didn't see coming,
or one that you just particularly love.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
I I'm sure that this is going to make it
into a TV show at some point. But my my
like thing that I think about is that, you know,
when we were when I was a kid, we used
to crush, you know, paper and throw it into a
trash can and you'd yell Kobe. And now all the
kids are yelling Caitlin Yes, And I'm like, man, the
minute that enters the TV show, I might laugh, but
(38:46):
I also might cry. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
I feel like Abbot Elementary is the prime show for that.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Abbot Elementary gets a lot of sports references and very deftly,
and I feel like I could see them pulling a
Caitlin talk Caitlin, this is how we close on Jocular.
You ask every guest who they would like to be
power slapped by, and our twist on that relates to
our sign off, and at the end of every show,
(39:13):
we say a good game, good game, pew. We give
two people good games, and then we say few to
something that deserves our wrath. So I need to hear
your biggest few in women's sports. It can be a person,
a team of ethos, whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
I'm going to say fu to seven hundred and sixty
five million to one Soto, because my brain immediately goes
to you could fund a women's softball league, a women's
baseball league, and I'm I grew up a big baseball fan,
but now I quit my fantasy baseball league. When the
announcer came out. I'm so irate because I'm so invested
(39:53):
in women's sports that one man to catch fly balls
can hit sixty five million when you could fund like
eight women's leagues. So fu to all of.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
That, but not to Juan Soto, because we have to
hate the game, not the player.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
No, take it one soo. But also, deer Juan Soto,
I'm sure he's listening. Take that money and invest it
in women's sports, and then I'll be fine with it.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Let's all start writing letters to one.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
So excuse me, sir, long hand, I do longhandersive yes,
dearest one, do something good.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Eric, you are, I'm gonna say you to the LPGA
oh I and I recently wore one of their like
hats on the on the show, and I was like
getting excited about golf and wanting to talk about this,
and then they came out with their guidelines. Uh, I
(40:49):
think a month ago, and it's you know, all like
biological sex and gender ship and very trans exclusive, and
I think think specifically for a sport like golf, it's
it just feels like such a silly stretch to pretend
that that transness is going to be the big difference
(41:12):
between players, Like you know that there's going to be
this vast space between the talent of a trans woman
and a sis woman. And my I think the big
few that goes in there underneath of all of my
complaints is every time we exclude trans women, the actual
message is that men are better than women, because these
(41:38):
people are not thinking of trans women as women, They're
thinking of trans women as men. And so we're saying, well,
we can't have trans women involved because we don't want
men interacting with women's women athletes. And every time we
say it, and every time we believe it, we are
saying we believe that men are better in every way.
Even the most mediocre man is better than the best woman.
(42:01):
And so you, LPGA, you had an opportunity to not
be this way. Everyone's rooting for you. Shut the up.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
Mast LPG Aaron, Aaron here, listen. I need you to
take that golf club and shove it up your ass.
Me and Wan Soto.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Sincerely, the nearest Sandpit and yeah name.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
I'd love to be proven wrong. I will say that
I'd love for them to be like you guys. We
came up with that letter and we were like, what
were we were?
Speaker 1 (42:37):
We were drinking. I felt the same way about their
rollout of a barstool merch collab.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
My god.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
So maybe we just need to revisit who's in charge
over there. On the number of levels, it's probably Carl.
It's always Carl, that guy.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
I tell you, he's just making one bad decision after another.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
You guys are the best. I can talk to you
for hours, and this is already quite long, and people
will enjoy every single minute of it and have no
idea They've spent four hours listening to us talk. Thank
you so much for coming on.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Thank you for having us big fans of both of you.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
Thank you so fun, You're the best both of you.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Thanks again to Aaron and Er for taking the time
we got to take another break. When we come back,
we indulge in one of the greatest pleasures of the
modern Internet, welcome back slices. We love that you're listening,
but we want you to get in the game every
day too. So here's our good game play of the day.
It's real easy. Just subscribe to both Jocular and her Lights.
(43:43):
We'll link to both podcasts in our show notes. Also,
we want to hear from you. Do you have a
favorite women's sports pop culture reference? Ron Swanson Deaf has
front row seats to Indiana Fever games these days, But
what about characters from other shows? And if you don't
have a favorite reference, what shows would you like to
see one? Hit us up on email good game at
wondermediaetwork dot com or leave us a voicemail at eight
(44:04):
seven two two oh four fifty seventy and you know
what I'm gonna say. Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review.
It's easy. Watch closing out all two hundred and fifty
four open Internet tabs at the end of the long
Day rating five out of five Xouts review. Hear that
it's the sound of five pounds of pressure being lifted
(44:26):
off your shoulders. We love the feeling that a company's
closing out all of the open tabs from your work day.
And it's not just your email or your calendar. It's
all those little side projects that you got interested in
looking into, so you opened a new tab to investigate
I don't know how oatmeal soap is made. But then
a new email arrives, so you say to yourself, nerdy
farmwife dot com, I'm just gonna minimize you for a minute,
(44:47):
and then later you're like, what was the name of
the hot priest in fleabag? And then you catch yourself
halfway down inn Andrew Scott Wormhole, And do you come
back to your soap and your priest lusting? No, you don't,
And that's okay, because closing out those tes will probably
bring you just as much joy as making that soap
would have, but maybe not as much as that Andrew
Scott wormhole. So if you really can't say goodbye, put
(45:09):
it in pocket. Pocket is a lifesaver, y'all, Pocket dot
com You're welcome. This is not an ad but it
could be call us pocket Now it's your turn, rate
and review. Thanks for listening, See you tomorrow. Good Game, Er,
Good Game, Aaron you Fleabag being only two seasons, incredible show.
We needed more. Good Game with Sarah Spain is an
(45:32):
iheartwomen's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.
You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network,
our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive
producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder.
Our editors are Emily Rudder, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and
(45:52):
Lindsay Cradowell. Production assistant from Lucy Jones and I'm Your
Host Sarah Spain
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where our attention
is being stolen away from women's sports by the trophy
for the Pop Tart Bowl. It's an actual functioning toaster, y'all.
I don't care about the game. I don't care about
the teams. I do care about the toaster trophy and
that sexy ass Pop Tart mascot. It's Tuesday, December seventeenth,
(00:20):
and if you think me lusting after a Pop Tart
mascot is unhinged. Buckle up for today's show because we
got a hilarious and occasionally off the rails group chat
with actor and podcast host er Fight Master and comedy
writer and stand up Aaron Foley. Plus the BWHL is back,
the WNBA is going international kind of, and a tip
for all those links you click but haven't gotten to yet,
(00:43):
it's all coming up right after this welcome back. Here's
what you need to know today. The WNBA announced on
Monday that the league's first ever international regular season game
will be played next season between the Atlanta Dream and
Seattle Storm in Vancouver, British Columbia. Rogers Arena will host
(01:07):
the two teams for a game on August fifteenth, and
while it's technically international, it'll still be Seattle's closest away
game of the season. Vancouver's just over one hundred miles
north of Climate Pledge Arena in Seattle. In college hoops,
we've got some movement in the AP rankings following a
couple big matchups last week. Ucla is still locked in
at the number one spot, but notre Name climbed five
(01:28):
spots to number three thanks to their win over Yukon.
And speaking of Yukon, in the Huskies face another tough
opponent tonight in Iowa State. Iowa State just fell out
of the top twenty five after losing to Iowa in
the Iowa Corns Syhawk series, so you know the Cyclones
will be looking to make the most out of playing
another ranked opponent. By the way, I've said Syhawk multiple
(01:48):
times and I just realized it's Cyclones plus Hawks Syhawk.
Cool to three x three basketball, the team USA women
won silver at the PHOEBA three x three AmeriCup in
Porto Rico over the weekend after winning their group and
defeating Chile and Puerto Rico in the quarterfinals and semifinals.
The US team of Abby Sue Matty segrest Azare Stevens
(02:09):
and Britney Sykes fell to Canada in the final nineteen eighteen.
In overtime. Sykes was named the Al Tournament Team, while
Canadian player Paige Crozen was named MVP. To Hockey, The
PWHL is back in action tonight following a week long
international break. The Boston Fleet hosts the Ottawa Charge tonight.
We'll link to the full upcoming PWHL schedule in our
(02:32):
show notes to Soccer Across the Pond. Prize money for
the twenty twenty five Women's European Championship is set to
double following a pledge from UEFA, the European soccer governing body.
Now there's still a long way to go. The sixteen
women's teams that compete next July in Switzerland will share
a prize pool of forty one million euros that's about
(02:52):
forty three million US dollars, while the men's championship has
a total purse of three hundred thirty one million euros.
So yeah, ways to go. The European Championship is held
once every four years, and the last time the attorney
was held it broke attendance record after attendance record, concluding
with more than eighty seven thousand fans squishing into Wembley
Stadium to watch England defeat Germany in extra time. Quick
(03:16):
me a kolpa from yours truly. Last week we shouted
out the books in our Good Game book Club, from
interviews we've done with authors to books we've recommended when
we've talked about different athletes and leagues and issues, and
I forgot one. David Barry and Nefwalker came on the
show in mid November for a great convo about their
book Slaying the Trolls, Why the Trolls are very, very
wrong about women and sports. It was a fantastic conversation
(03:38):
and it's a fantastic book and such a great holiday
present for anyone who cares about women's sports, understanding their
potential and economic opportunity, their history, and why the future
looks so bright. So my apology is to David Neff.
But now I got your own little shout out, So
all's forgiven by the book local bookstore. Please, We're going
to take a quick break slices when we come back.
Genderless Gap Ads, Ron Swanson and Low Bunny. It's time
(04:01):
for group Chat with the hilarious Er and erin It's
time for another edition of group Chat where we take
the t from the text and we put it on
the airwaves. Joining us. They're an actor known for work
on Gray's Anatomy and Shrill, one of three co hosts
of the hilarious podcast Jocular, and a musician. Last year,
(04:23):
they released their debut EP Violence through their solo music
project fight Master. They love to take a perve minute
for a rock climber's hands. It's Er fight Master. What's up?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Er?
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
What an intro? Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
You're welcome. Joining Er. She's a comedy writer, stand up comedian,
and the host of the hur Lights podcast. Her writing
credits include two seasons of that ninety show, One Day
at a Time, and the sb Award. She's a massive
sportsman and she probably dated your ex girlfriend. It's Aaron Boley.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Oh my god, nailed it, nailed it.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
If you remember Aaron's past appearance. We went to the
bar at the WNBA All Star Game and connected with
her snow sister snowballs. What's that called again?
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Oh god, I don't even know.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Is that term for like when you both the same
people snowball snowball sisters.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
I have so many snowballs sisters that I bet you
do everywhere I go, just another snowball sister.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Thanks for joining. How do you all know each other?
Because Aaron, you helped wrangle er because I didn't have
R's number, but you did.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
We just met actually at a UCLA basketball I don't
know what would you call that? A fundraiser? Fundraiser and
we were sitting next to each other. I was like, Hey,
what's going on? And then we were fast friends because
we're just ripping on everything.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
But I also I also believe that it's a bit
of vanity because I think we kind of look alike,
and so I think we were like, should we be friends? Yeah,
there was a real ease of communication. And actually I
remember watching your stand up God and the person I
was with at the time, they're like, Jesus, y'all could
be related. And then so then when we met it,
(06:02):
the thing I had a really deep like went through
a like a tunnel of like recollection, which is why
I think you said your name and I kind of
held like your hand and shook it for too long.
I was back here. I was having a that' so
raven moment.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
I could see it. I could see it for sure. Yer,
I want you to tell us. Speaking of names, I'm
sure you've said this a million times, but for our
listeners that haven't heard it, can you explain your social
media name genderless gap Ad.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I came into a theater rehearsal one time dressed in
all denim and a white hat, and my director at
the time went, you look like a genderless gap Ad
and I said, I'm changing my handle right now.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, and it is very appropriate. I've never asked or
wondered about an origin story. It just felt right.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
No, And sometimes, like I'm walking around, people will say, like,
I think I have a memorable real name, but people
will be like, genderous gap Pad. It's kind of awesome.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah, I mean, fight master is your real name, so
you'd think anyone at any time would go for that one.
But there is a really nice ring to genderless gap Ad.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I think people think I'm I think people think I'm
talking with them with the fight master thing, and so
sometimes I think people avoid saying it because they're like,
you're not going to get me, Like everybody else might
believe this, but not me.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
That's funny genderless gap pad just rolls off the tongue. Yeah,
does just look at you and I'm like, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
That's like there was a certain time where any photo
that had a diverse group of people in it, we
would always say it looked like a Benetton ad. Do
you remember that? Oh yeah, I'm aging myself. Maybe er
doesn't remember. Aaron and I are closer in age, but yeah,
that was like you do. That was the go too.
Is it looks like a Benetton ad? Okay, Aaron, you
were on before. This is your triumphant return to group chat.
(08:03):
But for those who might have missed it, give us
a quick summary of her lights and why people should
watch and listen to it.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Well, I've been obsessed with women's sports since nineteen twelve,
and so I just decided I started it actually ten
years ago and when no one was paying attention, which
is always good timing, and then I took a couple
of years off, did a rebrand. So it's just basically
like a weekly deep dive conversation in the world of
women's sports for like an athlete, coach, reporter, journalist, And
(08:32):
it's just like kind of you know, trying to elevate
them as a human, elevate the sport, and yeah, just
getting to know them as like human beings versus like
x's and o's. I mean, sometimes it gets nerdy, but
I just love like hearing people's origin stories and how
they got into what they're doing. And yeah, I just
love meeting people. Literally I could talk to like a
(08:52):
new person for like an hour and a half about nothing,
so pretty much it's pretty fun and nerdy and yeah,
and I try to keep it light and fun. There's
there's no like hard hitting journalist questions.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
You ever on the phone and the other person drops
out and you wonder how long you were talking before
you realize that they weren't there anymore. Because that's me
with both new people and like walls, Like I could
talk to like inanimate objects for a good hour before
I'm like, oh, we're not talking. You did some interviews
on the road lately with like Rene Stubbs and Anti Costable.
What are those? Are those a specific kind of episode
(09:26):
or a different kind of tour?
Speaker 3 (09:28):
I think I think what it is is like when
you start something new and you get really excited and
then you just put five live tour dates on your
calendar and you have no idea what's going to happen.
I would encourage everybody to crawl outside of their comfort
zone and then also drink. But it was it was
really fun. I just was like, what if I just
(09:48):
tried to combine and stand up comedy in a live podcast.
I'm not saying it was a cute, it was I
would tweak the format. Yeah, just honestly talking like with
Annie about Chicago Sky and WNB and like her life
as a reporter and how she got into it in
front of a live, you know, a live audience. It
was so much fun. It was fantastic, you know. So
(10:09):
and then Renee, you know, I've known her forever. We
met at a comedy club a long time ago, randomly
and then I stalked her gently. So yeah, we talked
about like, you know, tennis, and she's a big Liberty
fan and so it was just it was just so fun.
I had like the time of my life. So hopefully
we do some I try to get you. You were
my first ask and chicken, I know, and I.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Was so bummed to miss because the night that you
had it was my big Halloween night party. So I
was dressed like Ellie the Elephant, and it would have
been a perfect time to crash your event. It just
was complete other side of town. So we're gonna do
it another time. Once you tweak, I'll just be like
the debut episode of the better and nearly tweaked version,
perfect perfect Er. I'm obsessed with jocular as you know,
I was recently on the podcast, so everyone can go
(10:51):
find the episode, right, guest, Thank you. It was so
much fun. It makes me laugh so much. It's my
It's one of two podcast that when I listen walking
down the street, I'm fully aware that I look like
a lunatic because I'm just walking alone laughing. And it's
probably not clear I AirPods. And what was the genesis
for that podcast? What inspired it? Uh?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
The genesis was twenty twenty Actually we were, you know,
Katie and Tiana and I were all in our respective
homes and we were all sending these memes back and forth,
and you know, like twenty twenty months obviously the year
where all of these people that were otherwise not watching
women's sports had no option but to start watching women's sports,
(11:32):
and so you were starting to see all the dialogue
start to happen, and in some graceful ways and some
ungraceful ways about women and the color of their skin
and the amount they were making and whether or not
they had children and all this stuff. And and Tienna
and I are all very like activist based, we're big
old feminists, and we were just kind of, you know,
(11:55):
we're so fascinated by the sports themselves, but really becoming
fascinated with Oh, this is going to be the come
together point for so many important cultural conversations that we're
not willing to have, and we want to be there
for that conversation, and we want to do it in
a funny way. And so that was the genesis of it,
(12:17):
and it's mutated in a beautiful way into this very fun,
lighthearted queer thing. And our goal is always to bring
in listeners that have felt excluded from the sports space
and people that maybe did not play sports or don't
know anything about sports at all, who don't want to
hear anything about statistics.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
They want to come.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
They want to hear us talk and joke about the
women and queer people who play sports and do it beautifully,
and then they get to feel like they are supporting
all of these leagues full of women that are all
on their margins, you know, And so I think I
think the listeners feel good, we feel good doing it,
and it's just been a great experience.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah, I am really waiting for the seminal work that
someone writes about twenty twenty, because I'm sure there's been
so many think pieces and like shorter things, but it's
really fascinating how much came out of stillness or a
forced just slowing down. And so for a lot of people,
it's been really hard to go back, and a lot
(13:17):
of people really struggled with like getting back up to
speed after they finally slowed down. But also so many
people finally like looked around and like created a new business,
created a company, started a podcast, wrote a book, did
all these things that like all they really needed was
enough time to like stop for one second and listen
to their own thoughts. And same goes with like all
of our collective reckonings around so many major issues. It's like,
(13:39):
if we're busy enough, let's just keep avoiding talking about
institutional racism and women getting the shaft. Not literally no
perf moment there, but yeah, and then instead we have
this opportunity and the question is are we actually going
to learn from that at all going forward and try
to incorporate more of that stillness and time and space
into what we do so we can more creative and
(14:01):
fine possibility, or are we immediately rushing back to like
that was a little scary and much so let's fill
every second of our day again. You know what the.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Bravest thing to me about twenty twenty, it was either
twenty twenty or twenty twenty one where we had the
WNBA bubble twenty twenty right twenty twenty, I think, and
we had we had the bubble, and these women who
are in this league that was like largely unwatched by
most of America, all of these like a league that's
like eighty percent black women, they finally have the mic
(14:30):
that people are finally watching their games. And at the
same time, the BLM movement is happening in full force,
and those women without missing ab are like, we're going
to use this as an opportunity to do activism and
to speak up about you know, police violence and what
we believe in. And there was I was just like, whoa, Like,
(14:51):
the camera's finally on you, and none of you are like, okay, wait,
you guys, this is our time to be really palatable.
This is the time to win the hearts. Mind they
fully were coming in with those like T shirts, everyone.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Wear half shirts, your hair up, cute.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Big bikinis. Hid the lesbianism. They were fully like no,
like say her name, like I don't know.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
I found it so brave.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
And then played the Best Basketball Hours lead. It was
mind blowing. I mean, par the dream that documentary. If
you haven't seen it, you have to. Everybody has to
see that.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah, but it also was like yet another lesson of
like actually leaning into authenticity and standing for something. Is
the women's sports space. It is the women's sports space.
It is what drives and interests people in addition to
great sport. And yes, some people are just there to
watch great sport. Awesome, and so many other people. To
your point, here are the people who listen to your
(15:45):
podcast want to be a part of something they've never
been invited to before. And the way to do that
is to stop thinking about what the average man wants
and instead thinking about what matters to you and how
you want. I have a friend who has never been
interested in sports, and she saw Megan Repina do an
interview saying We're not going to the fucking White House,
and she was like, who is this? What's happening? I'm
interested right, this queer friend of mine, I like this,
(16:08):
what's happening? Decided to go to a US Women's National
team watch party in the park in Chicago. We have
these big like screens and bars and setups when there's
big moments like that here in Chicago. But she brought
a book because she was like, I think I'm going
to be bored, and then a little picnic blanket and
like sat really far away from everybody else and then
was like by the end of it, booking flights to
(16:29):
go to friendlies in other cities and like buying merchant
was like, oh my god, whatever this is, I'm obsessed
with it, and like that's it. I asked her I
wanted to interview her after that for a espnW story
because I was so intrigued, and I was like, when
was the last time you were at a sports stadium, like,
because she went to Soldier Field for one of the
US Women's National team games and she said, does Taylor
(16:49):
Swift count And I was like, no, it doesn't count
as a sporting event that you last went to. Anyway,
I think that is fascinating earon that they lean and
so hard and it worked.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
I will say we did cover the eras to her
as a sporting event on Jocular because of it, because
being three hours long and running for months and months
and months, and so that's all I'll say for the
swifties out there.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yeah, well, and Taylor inspired a lot of other people
to start running on the treadmill trying to do what
she did for three hours and realizing that she is
literally superhuman. Okay, let's talk Caitlyn Clark. This Time magazine
interview was incredible. Also, wish it had run I don't know,
six months ago. Yeah, it's a lot of time and conversation.
(17:37):
But of course, the inevitable is the reaction from the
folks who are saying they will now stop rooting for
and watching her. The die hard basketball fans who were
very much there for the basketball will now stop watching
and rooting for her because she mentioned the word privilege,
and she talked about how great it would be if
we acknowledge and lifted up black players who helped make
the league what it is and continue to do so. Aaron,
(17:57):
this is predictable potentially even just parroting conversations other people
are seeing there. It might not even be people that
believe this, they're just like, Oh, I want to be
a part of this anti woke thing, so let me
copypaste that. I'm not watching Caitlin anymore. But what is
your reaction to her finally saying the thing that a
lot of people were sort of waiting for her to articulate,
and what that means going forward for the league, whether
(18:19):
it can actually help repair some of the stuff that
we saw so terribly manifest la last season.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Yeah. Well, first of all, my reaction to people saying
they're not going to watch her again or watch the WNBA, great,
bye bye, Masia. Just put slide that manhole cover over,
crawl back in to your humanity adjacent life. You obviously
had no experience any of the mission statements from day
(18:46):
one about the w what the WNBA stands for, you know,
just inclusion and equity and social justice. They obviously have
missed that for the last twenty eight seasons, so good
riddance to that. We got to wed those out anyway.
So but yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, she was
under so much pressure every single time. Like it's just
(19:06):
I felt like, God, we needed to give we have
a little a little bit more patience, you know that
all of a sudden, you can play the highest level
of basketball, what is she you know, fifteen and then
speak eloquently about race and inclusion and equit, you know
what I mean. So, but obviously she has a responsibility too.
So I think the article and I you know, I'm
(19:27):
I'm kind of blown away by her first of all,
long time coming, but like also gave her a lot
of like leeway to have those learning curve for sure,
But I'm just so impressed, like how comfortable she is
in her own skin, Like that's pretty amazing that, you know,
for her just to kind of sit back and be
like this is who I am and blah blah blah.
And it seemed really sincere and not like a pr move.
(19:50):
And so yeah, I'm hoping we just get back to like,
you know, awesome basketball in twenty twenty five and not
have these like idiots, you know, trolling around saying the
dum miss shit.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Well, she also provided some really good sort of antidotes
to some of the things that people were pissed about
like Danna Tarrossi saying, like, you know, get ready, rook,
this is gonna be a tough league. And then here
we have Kaitlyn Clark literally saying, I was blown away
by how shitty the other college players were. They were
terrible at guarding me. Were they even trying. That's not
a direct quote, but essentially she came hard with it
(20:22):
and honest, and she's allowed to say that, and more
power to her. But that's the kind of stuff that
other players were saying, and they were accused of bullying
and not being welcoming and hating her and resenting her,
and it's like, no, this is just how basketball players
talk about basketball, and now that she's doing it too,
can we stop with that garbage? And like, er, that's
I think you know, you were just mentioning people feeling
(20:43):
welcome to talk about sports or at least dip a
toe into sports on your show. A lot of people
dipped a toe into the WNBA because of Caitlyn Clark,
and for some of them when they got there, it
was a disappointment to see like that lady that will
never forget with the fake and nails that she put
on her her hands to try to attack djan A
Carrington and make the space something that it hadn't been
(21:06):
at all, And I think like, hopefully this can get
us back to some of the ways we felt about
going to a WNBA game and women's sports space, where
it isn't so like everyone's at odds.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I think that you're right, Aaron, in the sense of like,
these conversations that we are having now because we have
people like Kitten and we have people like Angel Reese,
they are conversations that actually needed to happen. And when
I see people trolling the league, I feel very blessed
that they've made themselves so apparent so that we don't
have to invite them to anything or give a shit
(21:38):
about what they think at all. I loved this article
with Caitlin because I loved that how when they said
that she lacked any false humility, she really did. There
was like She's like, I'm a great player. This is
what I've done for the league, this is the visibility
(21:59):
I got. So when she says like, yeah, like I'd
love to say I worked for all of it, but
I am. You know, I do have privilege, I was like, yeah,
well that if you let line up every other thing
that she said in that interview, and how honest it
was there, there would be no reason why that one
would not also be honest and off the cuff, even
if it was rehearsed. But I think she's also had
(22:23):
time to watch other white players handle these discussions, Like
I think Paige Becker's has done a really remarkable job
kind of always saying, you know, yes, great, thank you
so much for the attention, and here's all the black
women that helped me get here. And so I think
I think Caitlyn has been able to watch people and
kind of soak that information in so that when she
(22:44):
says these things now about like yeah, God love to
say I'd worked for it, but it is partially privileged,
it feels very natural.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, I'm just proud of her. I was proud of her.
But I think it also, like to Aaron's point, like
giving her enough grace to get there organically made sense
because Paigeers grew up in a mixed family, like you
just had a whole life of figuring out and being
right up next to all this stuff. And Kaylin's just
a white girl from Iowa, who sure could she gotten
there faster through any number of ways, but she didn't,
(23:13):
and here she is and it's and it's you know,
she's twenty two years old and I think still.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
In the calendar year. I mean she was raised in
like a cornstalk, you know, like, how how are you
supposed to get so eloquent? I mean, you want everybody
we're like projecting our own experience and how we would
handle things and saying she should have done it this way.
But then you take a second and you're like, she
is a kid, right, like from the whitest of white,
(23:40):
you know, just concentrating head down, just wanted to play basketball.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
And when when male athletes are that kind of neurotic
obsessive about their their skill, we allow it in a
way that we never do with women athletes, because, like
with everything else, we expect the people who are the
most marginalized to speak to their victimization and expect the
people doing the victimizing to have zero clue that they're
even doing it or any thoughts on it. And so
(24:06):
with male athletes, we're like, oh, my gosh, she's just
single minded and it's all he cares about. And with women,
it's like, oh, she's pretending not to know, so she
doesn't have to speak on it, right, it's just such
a different treatment.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yes, er well, I was thinking about that savage line
that she had because it's it jumped out to me too.
But she says, she says those girls like don't have
any basketball IQ and those those women will never play
basketball again. And I was like, oh my god, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah, that's how you get great, and like it's up
to everybody to decide for themselves. Do I want to
be Michael Jordan or do I want to you know,
figure out some balance. But it shouldn't be working out
for her right now. Caitlin Clark and Alone mar were
two of the like big breakout stars of this year.
Do y'all see any parallels? Are there ways we can
look at their appeal beyond sport? Anything we can learn
(25:03):
about their explosive popularity that can inform how we market
or present women's sports and athletes, because in a lot
of ways they are very different.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Yeah, I mean, I was just thinking that, like a
like a quick parallel is really what we came back to,
Like comfortable in your own skin, you know, which is
like a radical act when all of society is just
trying to make you feel uncomfortable every minute of the day,
and then you feel so uncomfortable about everything, then you
start buying everything. I mean, you know, there's no feel
good in capitalism, you know. So these these two women
(25:36):
at the top of their game, so young, but at
the top of their game, they've achieved success, and you
feel like you know them, you know, you feel comfortable.
They're so comfortable. And I'm not saying they don't have like,
you know, self esteem moments or whatever, but I don't know,
it just it just feels like they're so authentic. They're
comfortable in their own skin, and it's empowering, you know.
(25:57):
And I think if we market that for like, you know,
women and athletes and women's sports, of just letting them
be themselves. You know. I used to get so uncomfortable
watching the WIBA fits because it's like my worst nightmare
to put on address and it can but it's so
awesome to see everybody just go into the arena just
(26:18):
perfect like how they want to be. So I think
it's just leaning into that. Authenticity is just huge, and
it's as you can see, like in all these new
leagues and all this like fervor around women's sports I
think that is a very you know, true connection.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah, yard, do you see parallels?
Speaker 2 (26:37):
I do, But my the parallel that I see is
as a little harsh. I think that America really loves
a white girl that feels like family, and and part
of that is that they are desexualized. And Caitlin is
(26:59):
not a particularly like she's not leaning into any type
of hyper femininity. And all of the conversations about Alonemar
are about her weight and her height and her broad
shoulders and all these things. And so they're kind of
these women that are we almost are feeling protective of them.
(27:19):
Of course in that like you know, white supremacist way
that we do feel protective of white women. I think
we're also feeling like we are like rallying around. They're
not getting the vitriol that women who identify and focus
on being hot would get. Right. So, even Angel Reese
(27:40):
is a person who's like, you know, wearing nails and
getting her hair laid like edges laid for these games,
and is putting on makeup, and she's getting the vitriol
that we give women on a daily basis for.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Simply were trying.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yes, any any woman that tries and enjoys like the
presentation of like being a hot girl whatever, like that's
when we get mad. And of course when Alona did
the the swimsuits, yeah, that was when there was any
like the most of course negative like trolls come out
of the woodwork for that kind of thing, because this
is her attempt at, like, you know, trying that version
(28:16):
of femininity. But I don't know, I think they've both
got this like sister thing where we've decided that they're there,
they are respectfully de sexualized, and so we can treat
them like we would any woman in our family that
we don't want to have sex with.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
I mean, and.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
That's why I think that white America, specifically white males
have come around Caitlin like like every every man I
talked to you about Caitlin Clark, you would think that
she grew up in their hometown.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
It's it's interesting too because there's there's also and definitely
more so before we've evolved into more disparate presentations of
women that are acceptable. But it used to be that
only the sexualized women athletes got love and attention, and
it was the ones that were like Caitlin or alone
(29:11):
who weren't leaning enough into their sexuality that were presented
as why women's sports is n't attractive were not what
we want because they're not feminine enough. But now it's
like there's these different spaces in which we allow women
to exist and yeah, it's in you hadn't thought of
that about them, of the sort of girl next door,
(29:31):
but not the Alex Morgan type of girl next door.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Well, and I think we can like traditionally for American
gay gay people are invisible in this beautiful.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Sense, like right here where I'm right here over here,
and I.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Say beautiful sense because in like a truly mocking way
where you know, like people thinking that being gay is
like people think that being trans is new, right, They're
like four years all of these and you're like, oh
my god in the water. Yes, like it truly truly.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Invisible mind milk.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Yes, So we have to don't give them that suggestion.
I promise you that will be a headline next week.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
If you well, it might be the almond milk. We
can't rule it out, but we don't know. But it
was like when when the w NBA was I think
one of the reasons it hasn't done well is because
we they were not pandering to the male gaze in
so many ways, and when they did, it was like
kind of clownish because they're all so just energetically butch,
(30:37):
even if they're straight, they're energetically but we can't we
can't avoid that. And and gay people are invisible. And
so it was truly men being like, what is the
w NBA, right, Like, so it's gay women were invisible.
And then hot women are the subject of vitriol because
we just for some reason we hate femininity, and we
also hate an absence of femininity, and it's just impossible
(30:59):
to be a woman.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Well also, if we if we find you very attractive,
we don't want you to ruin it. What they've said
for years two about comedy, right, we're uncomfortable with women
who are hot making themselves less hot in pursuit of
a laugh. So we like women who are not like
the hottest person in the movie to be the funny ones.
Otherwise it's offensive that they're taking away their best and
most important virtue, which is the same with hot female athletes.
(31:23):
It's like, we like you in the ads, but once
you're on the field, please don't take away from your
hotness by being aggressive or physical or otherwise.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
Like I just had this this vision er when you
were talking about everything was invisible. How men watch the WNBA.
All they can just see is a ball. They just
see the ball going down the court, but they can't
see anything. It's like ghost.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
It's like ghost when like he was making the inanimate
stuff move to show her there.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Yes, that's how they watched it. That's how men watch.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
The WS podcast is only for people over forty. I'm
so sorry. So far I've been referencing Ghost and Benetton
really keeping it tightly into.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
You're bringing culture to the young people.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
That's right, that's right. Speaking of culture, I have to
ask y'all, do you have one like prime complaint about
the way TV shows, movies, or comedians get things wrong
when they're joking or making content about female athletes and
women's sports. Mine is always that somehow, if they decide
to throw in a woman on the co ed team
just for like like hang time or space jam, there's
(32:25):
like token woman. She never wears the uniform everyone else wears.
She's always in a bra top like a sports bra
or a crop top. Like why doesn't she wear the
same uniform. Ever, Oh, cast they have one. They casted
the cartoon and they could only find a cartoon who
wore exclusively crop tops.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Well, if I had that body, I would be wearing
that too.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Yeah, Lola Banish, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
I just think there's no in between. It's either the
woman is like yeah, like ultra femme and she can't
play and she's like, oh my boob, and it's like
if she's playing, it's like to get the guy, and
she's just like, you know, throwing like a toddler, you know,
and you're just like, I can't who is this person?
Or it's the butchiest of butch Lesbo's that's just like
(33:14):
it's just a scene where she's walking through the house
and like tackling her furniture, you know, and you're like, what,
none of none of this happens, Like how about the
in between?
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yeah, that's fair, So say the extremes.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
My my my least favorite misconception. I think that this
happens because of bend Attle, Like Beckham is, when there's
any like plot line or joke about like a coach
and a player having sexual likes. Always I can't express
the people who don't play sports the relationship with you
(33:48):
you have with your coach is like if you had
a third parent that you hated but you weren't allowed
you like, you can't get estranged from them at any point. Yeah,
And they're also they're also like a leader of a
dictatorship that you're living under in silence. And there's somehow
even if they're forty years old, they are elderly to you,
(34:10):
and so there's just there's like it's the very opposite.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
I don't know. I had one hot coach, so I
kind of get it. I hadn't I had a hot coach,
my high school track coach. Everybody knew he was hot.
During Valentine's Day, you could buy a singing telegram Valentine
for people and like someone would walk into their class
and be like, hey, Sarah. I wouldn't know because no
one bought me any But in theory it would have
gone that someone a handful of people from the chorus
(34:35):
would walk in and be like, Hey, Sarah, this is
from you know, Todd, and it would be like, you
know something about why can't I be a teenager in
love or whatever whatever that song is. And I was
in class. So he was also an econ teacher, and
he had like nine of them. So they just said,
mister Clagg, you got nine of these. They're all anonymous.
(34:56):
We're just gonna sing them all at once.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Oh my god. Yeah, like that that was his vibe.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Okay, So I'm not saying it's he was young, so
like when he started teaching, he was like mid to
late twenties, so he's not that far off from the
people he's like teaching and coaching. Anyway, My point is
it is conceivable that you might want to have sex
with your coach, but it's best, because of a million reasons,
to not always have the storyline be that the woman
bones her coach, because, first of all, that happens too
much in real life, and usually it's because of an
(35:22):
imbalance of power that's caused by the coach being toxic
and abusive, so let's not make it a cool storyline. Also,
Pure Knightley was like twelve in every movie where she
was actually active, she was like seventeen in love.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Actually, Sarah, have you ever considered freestyle wrapping? You speak
so quickly off the dome, sorry, so elegantly. I'm like,
let's put it to music.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
You know what, people have always said we need another
white rapper.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
I've been saying that for years.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Oh my god. Even my mother says that, yes.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
I need to fill the space.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
It is true, though, I will second because I obviously
I listen to you, well both do your shows, but
I can't sometimes I stop. And I've gotten my partner, Sarah,
to listen.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
To your show too.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Sarah, I go, it's so she speaks so quickly, and
it's like a plus. It's like and then and I'm like,
wait what And then normal podcasts I do like one
point five or one point twenty five. For you, it's
almost like point seventy five.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
I wouldn't recommend it, just wouldn't recommend it very fast.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
No, but it's amazing You're you're so good at it.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yeah, here's my No. I've got to give you one
more compliment. When when I got home from the recording
of the interview, you to a jocular, I was like,
I was talking to my partner and I was like,
it was so she's so powerful. It was like, I
feel like I need to go to the gym.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Big gym energy. I don't know if that's a compliment,
to be honest.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
I did I went to the gym. I went to
the gym and I thought about all your accomplishments and
I did cardio.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
That's my king good about that? Yeah? Yeah, I feel
I mean, I told you last time that you said
I was funny at the SPNW Seve, and I've told
so many people that. Now I'm going to tell people
I inspired you to lift. Yes, and they can read
whatever they want into that. Okay, we're running out of time,
but we have to go a little bit over because
(37:33):
I really need your answers for this next question, because
I think they're going to be good. We need your
favorite women's sports reference and pop culture. For example, Out
of Nowhere, Parks and rec Ron Swanson says, you know,
an ideal night out for me is stepping onto my
poor chariot, grilling a thick slab of something's flesh, and
then popping in a highlight reel of the WNBA like
it's a surprising moment on that show. You don't see
(37:54):
it coming. Gloria, the Paul Pell character on Girls, Girls
I've Ever, says I'm bad at letting go. I have
a Sims character named Val who's been shooting hoops for
twenty years.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
I love that show so much.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
It's the best show. Liz Lemon was part of the
Timeless Torches WNBA dance team for The Liberty on thirty Rock.
There's some good ones. So do you have one that like,
maybe he surprised you or you just didn't see coming,
or one that you just particularly love.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
I I'm sure that this is going to make it
into a TV show at some point. But my my
like thing that I think about is that, you know,
when we were when I was a kid, we used
to crush, you know, paper and throw it into a
trash can and you'd yell Kobe. And now all the
kids are yelling Caitlin Yes, And I'm like, man, the
minute that enters the TV show, I might laugh, but
(38:46):
I also might cry. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
I feel like Abbot Elementary is the prime show for that.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Abbot Elementary gets a lot of sports references and very deftly,
and I feel like I could see them pulling a
Caitlin talk Caitlin, this is how we close on Jocular.
You ask every guest who they would like to be
power slapped by, and our twist on that relates to
our sign off, and at the end of every show,
(39:13):
we say a good game, good game, pew. We give
two people good games, and then we say few to
something that deserves our wrath. So I need to hear
your biggest few in women's sports. It can be a person,
a team of ethos, whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
I'm going to say fu to seven hundred and sixty
five million to one Soto, because my brain immediately goes
to you could fund a women's softball league, a women's
baseball league, and I'm I grew up a big baseball fan,
but now I quit my fantasy baseball league. When the
announcer came out. I'm so irate because I'm so invested
(39:53):
in women's sports that one man to catch fly balls
can hit sixty five million when you could fund like
eight women's leagues. So fu to all of.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
That, but not to Juan Soto, because we have to
hate the game, not the player.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
No, take it one soo. But also, deer Juan Soto,
I'm sure he's listening. Take that money and invest it
in women's sports, and then I'll be fine with it.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Let's all start writing letters to one.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
So excuse me, sir, long hand, I do longhandersive yes,
dearest one, do something good.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Eric, you are, I'm gonna say you to the LPGA
oh I and I recently wore one of their like
hats on the on the show, and I was like
getting excited about golf and wanting to talk about this,
and then they came out with their guidelines. Uh, I
(40:49):
think a month ago, and it's you know, all like
biological sex and gender ship and very trans exclusive, and
I think think specifically for a sport like golf, it's
it just feels like such a silly stretch to pretend
that that transness is going to be the big difference
(41:12):
between players, Like you know that there's going to be
this vast space between the talent of a trans woman
and a sis woman. And my I think the big
few that goes in there underneath of all of my
complaints is every time we exclude trans women, the actual
message is that men are better than women, because these
(41:38):
people are not thinking of trans women as women, They're
thinking of trans women as men. And so we're saying, well,
we can't have trans women involved because we don't want
men interacting with women's women athletes. And every time we
say it, and every time we believe it, we are
saying we believe that men are better in every way.
Even the most mediocre man is better than the best woman.
(42:01):
And so you, LPGA, you had an opportunity to not
be this way. Everyone's rooting for you. Shut the up.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
Mast LPG Aaron, Aaron here, listen. I need you to
take that golf club and shove it up your ass.
Me and Wan Soto.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Sincerely, the nearest Sandpit and yeah name.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
I'd love to be proven wrong. I will say that
I'd love for them to be like you guys. We
came up with that letter and we were like, what
were we were?
Speaker 1 (42:37):
We were drinking. I felt the same way about their
rollout of a barstool merch collab.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
My god.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
So maybe we just need to revisit who's in charge
over there. On the number of levels, it's probably Carl.
It's always Carl, that guy.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
I tell you, he's just making one bad decision after another.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
You guys are the best. I can talk to you
for hours, and this is already quite long, and people
will enjoy every single minute of it and have no
idea They've spent four hours listening to us talk. Thank
you so much for coming on.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Thank you for having us big fans of both of you.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
Thank you so fun, You're the best both of you.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Thanks again to Aaron and Er for taking the time
we got to take another break. When we come back,
we indulge in one of the greatest pleasures of the
modern Internet, welcome back slices. We love that you're listening,
but we want you to get in the game every
day too. So here's our good game play of the day.
It's real easy. Just subscribe to both Jocular and her Lights.
(43:43):
We'll link to both podcasts in our show notes. Also,
we want to hear from you. Do you have a
favorite women's sports pop culture reference? Ron Swanson Deaf has
front row seats to Indiana Fever games these days, But
what about characters from other shows? And if you don't
have a favorite reference, what shows would you like to
see one? Hit us up on email good game at
wondermediaetwork dot com or leave us a voicemail at eight
(44:04):
seven two two oh four fifty seventy and you know
what I'm gonna say. Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review.
It's easy. Watch closing out all two hundred and fifty
four open Internet tabs at the end of the long
Day rating five out of five Xouts review. Hear that
it's the sound of five pounds of pressure being lifted
(44:26):
off your shoulders. We love the feeling that a company's
closing out all of the open tabs from your work day.
And it's not just your email or your calendar. It's
all those little side projects that you got interested in
looking into, so you opened a new tab to investigate
I don't know how oatmeal soap is made. But then
a new email arrives, so you say to yourself, nerdy
farmwife dot com, I'm just gonna minimize you for a minute,
(44:47):
and then later you're like, what was the name of
the hot priest in fleabag? And then you catch yourself
halfway down inn Andrew Scott Wormhole, And do you come
back to your soap and your priest lusting? No, you don't,
And that's okay, because closing out those tes will probably
bring you just as much joy as making that soap
would have, but maybe not as much as that Andrew
Scott wormhole. So if you really can't say goodbye, put
(45:09):
it in pocket. Pocket is a lifesaver, y'all, Pocket dot
com You're welcome. This is not an ad but it
could be call us pocket Now it's your turn, rate
and review. Thanks for listening, See you tomorrow. Good Game, Er,
Good Game, Aaron you Fleabag being only two seasons, incredible show.
We needed more. Good Game with Sarah Spain is an
(45:32):
iheartwomen's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.
You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network,
our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive
producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder.
Our editors are Emily Rudder, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and
(45:52):
Lindsay Cradowell. Production assistant from Lucy Jones and I'm Your
Host Sarah Spain
Host
Sarah Spain
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