November 6, 2024 • 48 mins
ESPN broadcaster and reporter Holly Rowe joins Sarah to talk about the history of women’s sports coverage, the biggest college hoops storylines, drinking moonshine in Pat Summitt’s kitchen, her lengthy off-the-record convo with Kim Mulkey and her slightly deranged airport persona. Plus, a “Yes, And” about the history of Iowa basketball, a box breath tutorial (you’ll thank us!), and Mish tries to make veebs happen.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain where we're recording
this before the election. Returns are in and practicing our
box breaths in hal for four, hold for four, ex
hail for four, hold for four, in hal for four,
hold for you get the picture. It's Wednesday, November sixth,
(00:21):
and on today's show, we'll get a much needed punch
of joy from nearly thirty year ESPN broadcast and reporting,
but the legendary Holly Row. We're going to talk about
the record breaking twenty twenty four WNBA season that just
ended and the highly anticipated college basketball season that just began.
Plus we'll hit you at in Iowa basketball. Yes, and
and one of you is a big winner. It's all
(00:42):
coming up right after this Welcome back Orange Slices. Here's
what you need to know today in college basketball news.
(01:02):
The defending champion South Carolina game Cocks tipped off their
season with a sixty eight to sixty two win over
Michigan in a game that went down to the wire.
It's now the fourteenth straight season opening dub in the
dawn S Daly era. Michigan Freshman guard Sila Swords made
things interesting for the Wolverines in the final minute, knocking
down two big threes, but our team ran out of time.
(01:24):
The win extended South Carolina's unbeaten streak to thirty nine games,
including the undefeated campaign they put together last year.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
The game.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Cox lost star center Camilla Cardoso to the WNBA, but
most of their other pieces are still on the roster.
Next up for head coach John stay squad is a
Final four rematch against NC State this coming Sunday. More
on the Cox and college hoops later in the show.
Dinah Trossi, if you're listening, that's your cue to take
a sip. If you know you know. In college soccer,
(01:52):
it's conference tournament time. Schools around the country are vying
for titles this week and the thirty automatic bids to
the NCAA Tournament that are given to those conference champions.
What conference does your favorite team plan? You should know
by now, right, because you did your homework and you
picked a rooting interest, right, all right. Once attorneys are wrapped,
the bracket for the Big Dance will be revealed on Monday,
November eleventh. We'll link to a full college soccer schedule
(02:14):
and to the NCAA's auto bid tracker. In our show
notes in volleyball news, Alex Kleinman announced that she's retiring
from the game in a video posted to Instagram on Monday.
Kleinman's career has spanned twenty eight years and includes a
gold medal with April Ross and Beach Volleyball at the
Tokyo Olympics, plus four first team All American selections and
a Volleyball Magazine National Player of the Year award. As
(02:35):
an indoor volleyball player at Stanford, she also made her
impact felt in the AVP Beach Volleyball League, picking up
AVP Rookie of the Year, Best Blocker, and Most Improved
awards in eight years of competition. Especially impressive to go
from indoor to beach late in her career and be
so dominant. Here's a portion of Alex's farewell.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Dear volleyball, This is it one last final week of
practice with you. It still feels surreal my first awkward
serve at the age of six, to the thrill of
competing on the world's largest stage.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
We've been through it all together.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
You've been my refuge, You've been my passion, you've been
my purpose, you've been my confidence. But you've also been
my greatest enemy, my biggest obstacle, and a big source
of doubt. We've won championships together, been cut from rosters together,
fallen in and out and back in love together. We've
climbed the biggest mountains together and survived the deepest valleys together.
(03:30):
We've lived the grind together over a span of twenty
eight years. I guess that's to be expected. You've taught
me more lessons than I can articulate. And the crazy
thing is you're still teaching them to me, and I
think that's what has always kept me coming back.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Alex will compete for the final time alongside April Ross,
who announced her own retirement just last month in the
AVP League Championship November ninth and tenth in LA Shout
out to that incredible duo on their way out, Vib's
greats for sure. Wait, hold on, who wrote this script?
Mesh Mesh vibs. Are we really gonna do this again?
(04:07):
I'm trying to make vibes happen. Okay, No, we're not
making vibs happen. I cannot see vibs happening. Okay, fine,
we will ask the people of the Internet, who are
always kind we will ask the slices and the people
of the Internet, should Mesh stop trying to make vibs happen.
(04:28):
We all want to make VIP happen, if you know
what I'm saying. Just waiting on those results and thinking
about it every second of the day. Okay, we're gonna
take a quick break. When we come back, we're kicking
it with the Great Holly Rowe stick around joining us now.
She works as a broadcaster and reporter for the WNBA
(04:50):
Women's college basketball, Softball and volleyball, college football, men's college hoops,
and the MNBA. She's approaching her thirtieth year at ESPN
slash A and has covered just about everything. She's the
Queen of the Postgame Trophy Presentation, an Emmy Award winner,
the twenty twenty three Kurt Gouty Electronic Media Award winner
for the Nasmith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame, and she
(05:11):
made history in twenty twenty one as the Utah Jazz
first female color commentator. She kicked the crap out of
cancer and never says no to a sparkle. It's motherfucking
Holly Row Holly.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I love that intro. I love that intro.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
It's all true. I could go on for so much longer.
You've literally worked almost everything at this point.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
The one the only thing you missed is I did
once cover the Running of the Bulls in Spain for
you remember.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
That, and Women's Growed Cup. There was like a bunch
Moore in there. I literally could have kept going on.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Oh no, I love it.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
It's a true, true og and I actually want to
start there. I want to wrap the W season before
we move on to what is expected to be a
thrilling college hoops season. And at the espnW summit last week,
you talked about your first job pulling cable for WNBA games.
Tell us about that. What do you remember about the
early days of the league and how does that help
you put into perspective what we saw this year.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah, I remember just being so excited that we had
a women's league. You know, back when the W started,
no one was supporting looking at owning women's sports. And
the success of a couple of teams during the ninety
six Olympics in Atlanta, most notably women's basketball, you know
that dream Team, and then softball actually really blew up
in that Olympics too. I think people started to see
(06:27):
that women's sports could make money, and so when the
WNBA started, I just remember being like choked up every
second I would see games on TV. I remember writing
a letter to Lifetime and begging to be one of
their announcers, you know, like I just wanted so badly
to be part of this women's league. And so when
the Utah Jazz got a franchise, I hadn't really started
(06:48):
my TV career here yet, and so I was like,
how can I get involved? So I was on the
TV crew. I would pull the cable behind the camera
that's underneath the basket, and you have to coil it up,
and you have to actually be really good at that
because he's moving quickly and has to get places, and
so you've got to be quick so he's not tripping
or people around him are not tripping. And then I
just steadily worked my way up through that organization, and
(07:11):
you know, I would do graphics. I would do any
job I staged managed. I remember stage managing for Bonnie
Bernstein when she came in. Gina Orim and Robin and
Roberts were some of the original announcers, and then I
got my opportunity. They finally came to me. I started
doing local TV games for women's basketball the University of Utah,
and so they let me be the color analyst for
(07:32):
the Utah Stars for a few years before that franchise
moved to San Antonio. So when I say, literally, been
here from the bottom, now we's here, like, I just
I'm so invested in this league because we've been all
of us have been pushing this league, pushing this league.
I mean, I have a cash of angry emails I've
(07:53):
sent to bosses, you know, over twenty years at ESPN
of listen, we're not giving these resources. We need to
invest more, And I'm just really proud of us that
we are investing more and that people are now seeing
what we've been seeing all along, is the value of
women's sports.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
It's interesting you say that about ESPN, because I think
a lot of people don't see the behind the scenes,
and they get frustrated and they don't understand that sometimes
it's about slow progress, constantly pushing, being able to use
places that do have a lot of reach and a
lot of eyeballs to at least get the ball rolling
and then hopefully be able to keep pushing, pushing, pushing,
(08:28):
until there are the right kind of resources and the
right kind of respect for these athletes. And you've been
behind the scenes doing that forever. And when you see
this season and the explosion, good and bad, but lots
of good, it must mean something extra special to have
been able to see it from the beginning to hear now.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
It is extra special because there's a lot of people
who have come before that made this opportunity happen. And
I think Carolyn Peck had a really good analogy when
we were at our espnW some it is it feels
like you're a surfer and you finally you're on that wave,
but it's taken some time to be able to get
to ride that wave into shore. And I kind of
(09:08):
added on to that with you know how, anytime you've
been surfing, you have to paddle really, really hard, and
you miss the wave and the timing's not right, and
then you've got to paddle back out again, and it
feels a little bit like that's what's happened with our sport,
is we've all been paddling for a really long time
and it all had to build up to the perfect momentum,
you know, the perfect class of rookie players to catch
(09:32):
that wave and really bring it in. So it's really
satisfying because I'll give you one story. You know, people
have no idea and I'm not criticizing ESPN at all
on this because I think we have done more and
invested more in women's sports than any company in the
world for a long time. But I'll give you an
idea of that internal struggle. So I remember Sabrina and
(09:54):
Escu was a senior at Oregon and we had kind
of met her at a sophomore when we met her
as a freshman, when she got to the sweet sixteen,
they got their butts kicked. They come back again sophomore year,
and I you know, we've kind of been building up
this mountain with Sabrina and she's playing great. She's having
triple double after triple double, and it's like maybe January
(10:18):
of her senior year, and she's just not getting a
lot of coverage. And I know people are going to
be like, oh, that's not true, you guys are covering her.
It really is true because there was a night that
she set the all time Oregon scoring record men's or women's,
and we had no coverage of her on ESPN or
(10:38):
Sports Center or tweeting about her or nothing. And I
remember Kobe Bryant tweeting about her and tweeting congratulations, and
so I was there. I did some stuff because we
were starting to work on a feature about her, and
I emailed all my bosses. I was laying in my
room at the hotel at the Portland Airport and It's
two o'clock in the morning, and I just could not sleep,
(11:00):
and I was just doing, how can we not be
how can we not tweet about her? How why is
she not on a mainstream ESPN social media channel for
this record? And so I remember sending an angry email
at two am Pacific time to my bosses, like and
I think the line I said was, if Kobe thinks
she's important enough to tweet about, so should we. And
(11:20):
from that point forward, and not only because of me,
but her performance kept demanding that she got a lot
of coverage, and ESPN kind of got behind her and
the ground swell, and you know, then everything happened later
in February with Kobe and finally now ESPN's all in
on it, and you know, it just took some time
for them to see, now this should be mainstream sports coverage,
(11:42):
not women's sports coverage. This should be on every mainstream channel. So,
I mean, we've been fighting for a long time, and
it's very gratifying to see now that we're not having
to fight anymore. Internally, they're asking us like, hey, you know,
Andrea Carter had a good line. She's like, I've got
so many requests. I don't know what to do if
people want to talk to me about women's basketball. That's awesome,
(12:03):
It's awesome.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah, you know. I we appreciate and need the male
allies so much, especially in men's sports, and for years
we did have to point to NBA players to say
they get it, game respect, game right. It's the flubs
on the couch that don't get it. I hope we're
eventually going to get to a point, though, where we
don't need male voices validating the worth of these women
in order for execs to understand that they're worthy.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
I think we're there.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
I think that's a great story, but I think that
that's part of the problem was it was like, well,
this guy thinks she's valid, so now we can and
that used to be so necessary and it was helpful.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
That's the language that the male bosses understand, right.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Yes, and I hope we're moving beyond that.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
You know, we don't need the male voices to validate.
But sometimes it's like peer pressure is a thing, you know.
I don't know if you've ever read Malcolm Gladwell's The
Tipping Point. But one person thinking it's cool and then
the next person who's an influencer. You know, we use
that word in society for a reason. In Flace, luancers
are a big thing, and so it has been important
(13:04):
for our male athletes to be influencers to the rest
of the world, to give the credibility and say, no,
I know how hard that move is. I know what
she just did on the court is so hard. I
can remember a story where Maya Moore hit this crazy
game winner in the Indiana Minnesota Links WNBA finals, and
I remember Doris Burke was at an NBA game the
(13:25):
next day and Chris Paul is trying to replicate her shot,
and you can't you know this year players are men's
players are going into Iowa and trying to hit the
shot with the Caitlin Clark sticker on the floor at
Iowa of where she set the all time scoring record
and they can't hit the shot yep, and so we
don't need it. But influencing is an important thing in
(13:48):
our society and peer pressure, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yeah, it's massive. I don't want to belabor this because
I feel like, hopefully, moving into next season, we'll get
a little bit past this. But I did love that
you called people skimmers and screamers. We saw a lot
of media members, from longtime writers to big name TV
stars that sort of let the Internet set narratives for
the league, and you called some of them skimmers and screamers.
(14:11):
Can you explain that to our listeners?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Well, I think it might have been Carolyn Pecker and
the China that said that, So I want to give
them credit for that, But it is because people are
skimming social media like this, they see something and with
zero context or zero digging into one is this real?
Is this tweet even real? I'll give you an example.
When Marina Maybray, that played for the Chicago Sky got
(14:36):
traded to the Connecticut Sun this season. Right before the
All Star Game, this tweet appeared that looked like it
was a tweet from Dja Carrington and Marina Maybray responding, well,
I don't like you either, and like this spat back
and forth between these two women, and I'm like, oh
my gosh, I can't believe they would, and I start
(14:57):
digging into it and it's false and it's not real.
And so this whole narrative on social media has already
started before those two even become teammates, and it's not real.
So I think that's the thing that we want people
to be more discerning of is don't just skim it
and then react and get hot, because that's what people
(15:17):
on social media are trying to do. That's what the
trolls want. They want you to engage with their to
post because then they get more run and more followers.
So one be more discerning and then don't be the
screamer that's out there screaming. And we have seen a
lot of this, particularly with male members of the media.
I've just been sitting back here chuckling sometimes like, oh,
(15:39):
by what you just said, I can tell that you
have never followed you wa and tell right this second,
Branda Stewart told me a funny story about Pat McAfee,
and you know, God blessed Pat that he's coming to
games and he admits it. He's one of the guys
that will admit it, like I don't know anything about this.
I'm just getting involved because I like Katelyn Park, Right.
(16:00):
So he comes to a New York Liberty Indiana Fever
game and after the game he says, it's dewey. I apologize,
I was not familiar with the game, you know, but
he's owning it, Like, oh crap, you're really really good.
So that's more of this. Barratt is like, don't pretend
like you know, you know, stephen A got into his
(16:20):
bat with Monica McNutt, and it bothered me in this
respect of I really wanted to have. I was like,
who can I pay to go back and look at
every stephen A show over the last four years, five years,
and let's really look at how much time he's ever
spent talking about women's sports, because I promise you it's
not more than ten percent.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
So don't very generous.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah, Like, let's not pretend like you've been here. You
could be talking about women's sports a lot more and
not just Angel and Caitlin. Where's the talk about the
rest of the league, where's the talk about Asia Wilson
and the incredible season She's that really bothered me this
year that Asia Wilson is having quite possibly the best
(17:05):
season we've ever seen in WNBA history.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
It took a while not able to catch up.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Absolutely it was infuriating.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Lasting on the w quickly. An incredible run of head
coach firings in the league lately, I mean an unbelievable number.
What do you make of all the changes?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
This is what we call leveling up, right, So we
have seen this, I would say over the past five years,
since Mark Davis became an owner, since Josia and Clara
Sai became owners, we have billionaire owners matt Eshbia and
Phoenix and another a good example, and so they have
money and resources that some of the previous ownership groups
(17:45):
were not willing to spend or not able to spend. Like,
let's be honest, I'm I absolutely love the ownership group
in Seattle. It's a group of women who with their
retirement money, you bought a team and they're trying to
keep up. And like, I love those women so much
because they're the ogs and they're spending their own money,
you know. So I don't ever want to make it
seem like we don't appreciate all groups of ownership, but
(18:07):
the billionaire owners. And when Mark Davis paid Becky Hammond
a million dollars a season, first time ever we saw
a coach in the w make a million dollars a season.
That's signaling a level up, like we're going to get
the best. Who's the best? How can we get them?
We have to pay them? And now we're seeing other
groups follow suit. Like I'll give you Indiana as an example.
(18:28):
I think Christy Sides did an absolutely unbelievable job with
that team last year. You know, they were super competitive
last year, they were in every game, they just about
made the playoffs last year, and then this season, you know,
she gets Kitlin. I'm in her huddles. I know she's
a good coach. I know she's putting people in positions
(18:49):
to succeed. Could she handle maybe all the personalities and
all the outside noise and maybe that was a problem.
But Indiana said, we have to get even better. We
did a good job, we have to get even better.
And Stephanie White is an ex and O guru, She's
an offensive genius. So I just think it's a we
(19:10):
can be better and we're going to and we're going
to put money behind it.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yeah, Okay, let's get to the college game, because I
want to make sure we have enough time for this.
The biggest storylines, We'll start with last year's champions South Carolina,
last season's tournament MVP, Camila Cardosa is gone. She's off
to the WNBA. But the team is bringing back a
whole lot of talent. Nine players returning who accounted for
almost eighty four percent of the team's scoring. What will
(19:33):
be the biggest obstacle for the game Cocks and trying
to repeat.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
I think that Don Staley has done a masterful job
at making sure all of these high level, highly sought
after stars in high school find a way to connect
as teammates and not have it just be about them.
I mean, there were games last year. I think Malaysia
Fuol Wiley is a great example of how Don was
able to do this. This is a kid that is
(19:57):
going to be one of the best players you've seen
it when she comes into the w the rest of
her college career. Just remember my Lesia ful Wiley. She's it.
She has got juice, handles, elevation shot. I mean, yes,
she'll improve, Yes she can get better. But she is it,
and Don Staley gave her she didn't start at first,
in a little bit of playing time a little more. Oh,
(20:18):
you're not going to play defense. You're not going to
hardly play at all. You're going to learn that if
you don't defend, you're going to sit here on the
bench with me. And the way Dawn handled her last year,
I thought was masterful. And she's going to keep doing
that with all of these good players. So I really
think that the biggest challenge South Carolina will overcome is
South Carolina how they can vibe internally. I know this
(20:40):
team is super close. I went to a South Carolina
volleyball match when I was there for football a couple
of weeks ago. The whole basketball team's there. They're all
sitting together. They're all like in it, getting hot dogs together.
Joyce Edwards is their new freshman who I think will
take the basketball world by storm this year. She's looking
phenomenal and Don said, we are much better right now
(21:03):
than we were last.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Year at this Oh that's scary.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
That's scared everybody. So I just think they're loaded. I
think they've got a generational talent in Joyce Edwards coming
in Malesia Full Wiley so and Tahina pop House. She
doesn't get enough credit maybe nationally as a point guard.
She runs a calm show, can score when she needs to,
and I think she's a real key for their success
this year.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Did you hear anything from Don about Ashlan Watkins. This
is the junior currently suspended. She was arrested in August
for a first degree assault and battery and kidnapping. We
haven't gotten much information about her availability.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah, I haven't heard much either. I think that they
are still working it out. Don has not come out
and said a lot about that. It's an interesting conundrum
because you know, I'm always a proponent of get all
the facts before you come out with any statements. And
I don't know if there's still gathering facts, if they're
still trying to find out what actually happened. But I
do know that domestic violence and that kind of thing
(21:59):
cannot be tolerated. So I've been a little intrigued that,
you know, that they haven't said a lot about that,
because that's a big issue, particularly with college aged people
and relationships, and so I think there's an important opportunity
there to teach and learn and grow, so I don't
know what's happening there. Ashlyn is a great player. Every
(22:21):
time I've interacted with her, I've been very impressed. She's
a lovely young lady. Something bad happened, and so, you know,
I feel really terrible about that, but we don't know
much about it, and I hope they can get it sorted.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yeah. I always advocate for transparency in those cases, not
to say more than what you know, but to at
least be willing to come out and stand on whatever
you want to say about how you're handling it, because
it is too often that we see coaches sort of
not be willing to speak out about stuff like that
or to take the proper hold players accountable. It sounds
like they're still trying to get all the information on that,
and that's why we haven't heard much, So we'll keep
(22:53):
checking back in on that story. We've also got this
incredible story of UCLA USC the rivalry coming back in
such a big way. It is a gift to the game.
What's the biggest adjustment for these teams joining the Big Ten?
Do you think that's going to affect them in a
meaningful way?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I do. Number One, the travel is going to be wild.
I know they've tried to downplay it. It's it is
going to be a challenge like I've seen it be
a challenge for their football counterparts. It is a challenge.
Both USC and UCLA football are struggling, and you know,
the basketball teams are a little different. But I do
think that the travel of the new conference is a deal,
(23:28):
is a thing, but I think that they have depth.
One of the things that both of these teams have
is depth. You know, USC has depth that they haven't
had before. I was just watching their game in Paris
against Ole Miss, and the thing that stood out to
me the biggest, the most was pace. You know, I
think that their pace was slow to start the game.
Ole Miss was able to disrupt them. I think they
(23:48):
turned it over like more than twenty two might ended
up being like more like twenty four twenty five times
for USC. There's going to be an adjustment period. There's
new players. Gigi's still doing her theme that there's new players.
How do they share all those things? UCLA's loaded too.
I'm really excited. I think Lauren Betts is a name
that people might know about. She's not one of the
(24:11):
top ten players in the country that you're hearing about,
and you should. She is unstoppable. You know, she's maybe
the key to their success. She is a masterful player.
She's getting better and better, and now she's got help
around her. She's got players from the transfer portal, Keiki
Rice continuing to improve. So I think that they're going
to be a legit team to deal with.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah, I'm so excited to watch those two teams and
see what the ceiling might be for Juju Watkins this year.
You know, Stanford's another former Pac twelve school at a
new conference cardinal now in the ACC. They'll be without
Tara Vanderveer, all time winning a coach in NCAA basketball.
This is the first time they will be without her
since nineteen eighty four eighty five season. That long ago,
(24:52):
they also lost camp Bring to the WNBA draft, star
forward Kiki Earfn to USC and the transfer portal. We
got a whole new Sarah. How do you see them
looking under new head coach Kate Pey Well, First of.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
All, I want to give Kate pay some love because
she is a She played there, she has been a
longtime assistant for Tara vander Beer and over the last
ten years, I have watched Tara knowing that Kate was
probably going to be the person to replace her, and
then a few years ago they actually did name her
the coach in waiting, so Tara would seed more and
more of practice to her, more and more of scout
(25:24):
to her. Kate has been a voice on this team
for a long time now, and so I think this
transition will go well. But I do know that Tara
is one in a million. You know they're going to
name the court after her. She is one of the
most interesting women I've ever been around. I've got to
become I would say good close friends with Tara. She's
one of the most interesting women in the world because
(25:44):
if she wants to try something, she gets good at
it until she masters it. She figured out how to
play the piano, become a bike rider, a sailor. Anything
Tara wants to do, she masters. So they will miss her.
It's going to be a transition, but I do believe
Kate pay has been put in a position to succeed
because of how Tara has groomed her, and Kate's a
(26:06):
kick ass lady, terrific, terrific coach. I think she's going
to do well there.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
You've been around these athletes for years and years, and
I wonder if you notice the nil money, the massive
TV ratings, the bigger and better opportunities at a younger
age to start training harder, the attention the viewers. Is
there a big difference that you noticed in today's college players?
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Oh yeah, I mean they've got their own money, you know.
I don't think that I noticed a big difference on
the court per se. I'll use Flage Johnson as an example.
At LSU. Flage is a millionaire. She just bought twenty
acres of land outside of Atlanta. Like she is a
mover and a shaker. And I remember sitting down doing
an interview with Flage as a freshman, and she had
(26:51):
laid out this path for herself. You know, I want
to be on Billboard Top twenty. I want to be
you know in ESPN tip. I want to be you know,
wrapping in. And so she has had this plan and
this goal for herself. Shows up to practice sometime. I
think she dropped twenty five points last night. She had
thirty in their first exhibition game. I have found a
(27:12):
capacity of these young players to handle more and do more,
do a photo sheot. I mean she was on stage
with Lil Wayne two nights ago. Now she played in
the exhibition game last night. I've seen a capacity to
handle more. I have also seen a capacity for more anxiety.
We've seen some players miss parts of the season because
of mental health. So I hope we're still allowing kids
(27:37):
to grow up and have fun. College basketball should be fun.
That's the joy in it. I do want them to
still have the joy, but I also still want them
to get paid. I think getting paid is not a
bad thing. I love that the women are getting the anil.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, it's that balance, Like the professionalization of it allows
them to enter the WNBA more ready to have money
to fund fun in addition to what they're doing on
the court. But it does come with some drawbacks in
terms of time, energy, expectation, people gambling on them, and
being mad when things don't go their way, all that
stuff that comes with having this higher profile. Flage is
(28:12):
a perfect example of someone who's really been impressive in
handling all the different things. Page Beckers too. We were
joking kind of all summer long about where in the
world is Page Beckers? What event is she at? You know,
she's like trying to compete with Billy Jean King for
being at the most women's sporting events all summer long.
But now back on it happen, He's ready to go.
And how dangerous are the Huskies if Paige and the
(28:34):
rest of that team stays healthy.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
I feel like we've been saying this now for five years.
If they stay healthy. I mean, you've got to remember
that when Page has played, they've been in the National
Championship Game they lost to South Carolina. They've been in
the Final Four. When Page has been Page, they've done
very well. You know, they're at the Final four last year.
So the help of Pagebeckers is a huge deal. Asy
(28:59):
fun is back, her help is also a huge deal.
But the health of their bigs, I think people forget.
You know, outside of Ali Edwards, they've had a lot
of their bigs out for the season with injury. Gino
has done some of his most masterful seasons of coaching
the last few years, juggling a roster that just did
not have enough people, and yet there they are in
the Final four again last year, which I just think
(29:20):
is maybe one of his best coaching jobs of all time.
Gino Oriema, I think November twentieth, has an opportunity to
set the all time wins record in college basketball, past
Mike Krzyzewski, past Tara van Derveer. So that is something
we should celebrate. I want people to really give him
a lot of credit because he has poured more into women,
(29:42):
and he was the og man that was pouring support
and love and attention and demanding of women and putting
them in a position to succeed long before anyone else.
So he gets a lot of credit. But man, it's
all about the help the coage has had. I know,
I really want to get all in on them because
they are exciting, but I just have so much anxiety
(30:05):
for how will their bodies handle on this?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Yeah, you didn't even mention the Yukon mascot also hurt
last year, so we're praying and hoping.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
That yes, I've forgotten Jonathan, Yes healthy this year.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
IOWA two time defending national champion runner ups. They didn't
make the preseason top twenty five. Now no Katelyn Clark,
no Kate Martin, no coach Lisa Bluter. Still out of
the top twenty five. You think that's fair and right?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
I don't think it's fair. And right, because they're still
pretty loaded. Actually, I will have an Iowa game next Sunday.
We're doing a big doubleheader in Charlotte with NC State
South Carolina rematch and then Virginia Tech versus Iowa. So
I'll have a better idea next Sunday just how Iowa looks.
But listen, Hannah Stolky is a player that should be
(30:51):
on everybody's radar. She was a sophomore last year. She
is a player that can take over games. We saw
her score forty two points in a game last season
and that was an Iowa record until Caitlyn broke it
again on her senior night. But Sydney a falter. They
have players. They got a transfer in from Villanova who's
supposed to be brilliant, So they had a top I
(31:12):
think a top ten or top fifteen recruiting class. Jan
Jensen has been there. She's an Iowa legend. Are there changes, Yes,
Caitlyn's a huge loss. Like, let's just be honest, But
so is Kate Martin. You know, so is Kate Martin.
So they lost some important pieces. They still have some talent,
and I know this. They bust their ass. Jan will
(31:34):
demand that this Iowa team is prepared and ready, and
so I do think that's unfair that they're out of
the top twenty five.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Give us one dark horse team to keep an eye on.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Ooh, dark horse. I mean, I don't know how dark
horse this is, but I am Kentucky. You know, they
have a new coach, Kenny is there from He came
from Virginia Tech. He had gotten Virginia Tech to the
women's final four. And they have a transfer in Georgia
a who was one of the key point guards in
that run that helped get them to the final four.
So he's at Kentucky now, and you know Kentucky's in
(32:07):
the SEC. The SEC is tough, but I think Kentucky
could be a big wins improvement, could be competitive. He's
a brilliant coach, a brilliant man. Absolutely adore him. And
then this is not a dark course because they're loaded.
But I'm actually going to LSU on Thursday. I'm gonna
go to practice, they have an exhibition or they have
a game Friday night. And I think LSU could be
(32:30):
a top contender this season. They are stacked loaded. Anissa
Moros showing us that she can be a dominant player
Kayla Williams coming in off a really great freshman year,
and Flage is showing that she is ready to lead
this team. And you know, Kim Moulky's always gonna stir
something up, so.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
It's gonna Kim.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Kim's always gonna Kim. Yeah, So I'm really excited. I'll
kind of get my first look and really get to
see like how they're built, what the playing time looks like,
all that kind of stuff this weekend. So I'm really
excited to see the Tigers in person.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Well, Holly, you're the absolute best. I could talk to
you for literally hours, and you could give us information
and facts for hours. I want to leave on this
one note. Like I said, you're nearing thirty years in
the biz. I have never heard a single person say
a bad word about you. In fact, I have only
heard people talk about how you are the best person
in the world. You are friends with coaches, you are
(33:24):
friends with players, you are friends with other media members.
What is your advice for people coming up on how
to create the kind of relationships you have while still
succeeding not having to trade in the idea of needing
to be sensationalistic or funny at the expense of people,
or unfair or critical in order to lead in terms
of coverage. Because I think you found the most beautiful
(33:46):
balance in the way people talk about you. Such a
testament to your career. How do you advise young people
coming up to do the same?
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Okay, Well, first and foremost, I'm a raging bitch at
the airport. So there are a lot of people at
the airport who will counter at this way. Like no,
I saw her push past us. I am the worst
version of myself at the airport, and so I just
want to think I don't travel much. Yeah, I just
want to say sorry. I'm almost a four million miler
right now, and so my patience, my patience for people
(34:15):
at the airport has just worn fin. So I'll say
that apology. I'm not perfect, you know. I think I've
been competitive with coworkers in this business. I'm not perfect,
But here's what I will say. I am wildly interested
and curious about people and what makes them tick. And
I think when people understand that you are genuinely interested
(34:38):
in them, and you don't want to just get to
know the media version of them, You want to get
to know the real version of them. I mean, I
have been so privileged. I've gone on a road trip
with Pat Summit. I've drank moonshine in her kitchen, wine
at Gino Oriam as Tara van Derveer has made me dinner.
I've stayed at her house. Like I am so eager
(35:00):
you get to know who these people are as humans
and real people. I had a very interesting conversation and
I'll keep it private, but I'm going to tell you
two and a half hour hardcore conversation with Kim Moulki
about Brittany Griner and how she was handling that. We
(35:20):
went at it, but we have enough respect in our
relationship that I Am not going to take the sensational
headlines that people want to say, and I'm going to
ask her the whise, how did this happen? Why did
you do this? I really want to be fair to people.
You see so many headlines that are wrong all the time,
and so I always want to get to know to
the bottom of people who they are. We have players
(35:44):
in the WNBA who are controversial and who maybe people
haven't liked on the outside. I'll give you an example.
You know, when Britney Grinder was being detained. People were
asking me, I was really vocal in my support and
I'm fighting behind the scenes. And anytime you would tweet
about Brittany you just get crush and maybe it's Russian bots.
I don't know who all these people are, but I
(36:05):
was like, I actually know Britney grinn are very well.
I love her, her heart, her soul, who she is.
She's not perfect, but if we only love the perfect
people in our lives, that would be a long and
lonely life. So I guess my advice to young people is,
don't fall for the narratives. Don't fall for the version
(36:26):
of people you see on social media. Get to know people,
spend time, give them grace if they say or do
something that they're getting blasted for. Find out why. Don't
be that journalist that just like jumps on the bandwagon.
We see that so often. Find out why, find out why,
have genuine curiosity, and then treat people the way that
(36:49):
you would like to be treated. That's pretty simple.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
I think when you create those relationships, if something does
come up where somebody falters, make a mistake, does the
wrong thing, says the wrong thing, you have a relationship
where you can be fair and honest in criticizing them
and covering them accurately, but not end that relationship or
spoil it because you've created this this baseline, and it
actually perhaps potentially lets you be more fair in criticizing
(37:12):
because you've set that up as opposed to saying, well,
I'm friends with them now, so I'm not going to
say anything bad about them, because that's not doing right.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
No, No, because think about the best relationships you have.
They're honest, right, the best relationships you have in your
life are honest, and people who can be honest with
you when they say, you know, what happened here that
didn't go well. We've had to criticize a lot of coaches.
I had to criticize every one of those people I
just mentioned because things aren't always perfect. But I think
(37:39):
if they know you're coming from a place of true
honesty and kindness, Like I'm going to get to the
bottom of this for you, because maybe this was wrong,
and we have to say that it was wrong, but
I'm going to let you explain why you were wrong
and what happened. You know, I'm going to give you
that grace.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
So no, we're making me think of my interview with
Christine Brennan. That was really my intention, because I have a.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Really Yeah, I was proud of you for having them on,
and I mean, just to get into that again. I
don't want to be one of those people that only
sees the headlines and then comments on this because I
don't know all the behind the scenes. I've known Christine
for a long time. I would not say I'm really
close to her. I've seen her at social engagements, whatever,
but I've respected her for a long time in her
work for a long time. I also thought what she
(38:22):
did was wrong, and so I think we have to
be able to say that. We have to be able
to criticize each other. I've done things that I was like, oh,
I don't like how I said that. I wish I
wouldn't have said it like this. I've been wrong, But
I do think it was important that you gave her
an opportunity to explain herself and the whys of things.
And it's not to make excuses, it's to take it
(38:44):
out of the skim and scream column of people only
saw this on a skim and scream.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
But it didn't move us forward. Yeah, it didn't move
us forward to skim and scream about it. It actually
moved us forward to have a conversation. And even if
she didn't end up at the place I hoped for,
we got to understand the nuanced in context of why
there was a problem in the first place.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Right. So, we had a guy at ESPN that came in,
John Slawatsky. He was brilliant and he would teach us
how to ask a better I went to the so
you'll remember this when I tell you, and he would
tell us to ask questions that were neutral and lean.
That means, do not put the premise of your column,
or the premise of your book, or the quote you're
(39:25):
trying to fish for. You can't put that in the question.
That's not fair. That is not fair. Your questions need
to be neutral if you are truly good at this job.
And so that that is something that I try to
be very very mindful of. Is not putting my own
opinion in the question, maybe unless it's positive. Like I
know sometimes in these podium interviews I do insert my opinion,
(39:47):
like I think this year I was like, you know,
Benigel Leney, you have fought through so much. Oh my gosh,
you know she fought through so much and all this stuff,
I want people to know that. Yes, so maybe I
look at it more as I'm putting information in my questions,
but the questions have to be neutral in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
To get the fairest and most honest answer right for sure. Well, Holly,
you're pro and again I could talk to you forever.
But thank you so much for the time. I know
this is like a very rare day off for you,
and you spent it with us, so we're so appreciative.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Well, you have done such a great job for a
long time and been one of the true og supporters
of women's sports forever, and so I wanted to honor you,
and I am busy, but I think that we have
to honor each other as women, and like I'm going
to help you with your new project because I'm proud
of you and it's important and we're going to lift
each other up. So I will always make this time.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Thanks again to Holly Row. We got to take another
break when we come back. Yes, and straight from the
cornfields of Iowa. Welcome back, slices. Let's talk a little
bit about Iowa women's basketball. No, not the current team, No,
not the Kitlyn Clark years. There's actually more to Iowa
(41:02):
basketball than that, so it's time for another. Yes, and
the Lisa Blueder Iowa era ended in the offseason. She
stepped down as the winningest head coach in program history,
having led the Hawkeyes to eighteen NCUBA Tournament appearances in
twenty four seasons. And of course, the aforementioned megastar, Caitlin
Clark was drafted to the Indiana Fever, so she's gone
(41:24):
as well. But did you know that their era wasn't
the only era during which Iowa made waves. Let's hop
in the old time machine and take it all the
way back to the early eighties when head coach c.
Vivian Stringer was at the Helm. She stepped out of
the scene in Iowa City in nineteen eighty three, having
already established her reputation prior to joining the Hawkeye She
guided Cheney State University to the nineteen eighty two NCUBA Final.
(41:47):
That team is still the only HBCU squad to make
a run to the Women's Final four and national Championship game.
It was also the first to have an all black
coaching staff in twelve seasons at Iowa Stringer propelled the
program to nine straight NCAA Tournament appearances and the program's
first ever number one ranking. She also coached standout player
(42:08):
and Women's Basketball Hall of Famer Michelle Edwards, the first
female Hawkeye Hooper to have her jersey retired. It was
Stringer's all time win record that Blooter broke back in
twenty fourteen. Stringer posted a two hundred and sixty nine
and eighty four record overall in her time at Iowa
before moving on to coach Rutgers from nineteen ninety five
until she retired in twenty twenty two. She was the
(42:29):
first coach, regardless of gender, to take three different schools
to the Final Four. Her legacy in the game speaks
for itself. If you want to know more about c
Vivian Stringer, Mish would highly suggest reading her memoir, Standing Tall.
We'll add it to the Good Game book Club and
link to it in our show notes. So yes, Lisa
Bluter and Caitlin Clark and c Vivian Stringer and the
(42:52):
Iowa greats that came before them. All right, slices, it's
time to pick a sports Prize pack winner. That's right,
we gathered all those survey responses, and thank you so much.
Your responses were super helpful and honestly they were a
joy to read. Thank you for the kind words, Thank
you for the smart suggestions. Special shout out to Megan Flood.
(43:13):
I assume that's you, m Flood who suggested including the
day and the data of each show at the top
to help folks who catch up on a few days
at once place the timing of the news and the
interviews and all that smart idea. You'll notice we started
doing that this week. So with no further ado, the
randomly selected winner who filled out a survey and will
win the sports prize pack is Joey Maldonado. Joey, you win,
(43:42):
will be emailing you to get the address to send
your sports prize pack. Enjoy. We so appreciate all of
you for your feedback, so thanks again. And if you
didn't take the survey but you have thoughts, we'd love
to hear from you. Hit us up on email good
Game at wondermedianetwork dot com or leave us a voicemail
at eight seven two two oh four fifty seventy. As always,
we love that you're listening, but we want you to
(44:02):
get in the game every day too. So here's our
good game play of the day. Just take some deep breaths. Literally,
that's it. We can take one right now. Actually, if
you're not familiar with box breaths, they're truly a game changer,
and if it helps, you could slow down your brain
by picturing drawing the top line of a box while
you inhale, the line going down while you hold, line
(44:23):
back across while you exhale, and the line back up
to connect the box while you hold again. So try
it now. Deep breath in for four seconds, hold for
four seconds. Deep breath out for four seconds, hold for
four seconds. Maybe you're already feeling better, but yeah, take
(44:48):
care of yourself, slices. Prioritize your mental health. Spend time
with people who don't add to your stress level. If
you can, take a break from the internet if necessary.
Maybe you watch your favorite comfort movie, read a book
that you love, eat your face food. I actually have
a friend who did a Mac and Cheese election last night,
choosing a winner after making a handful of different box
brands of mac and cheese. Great, do that do a
(45:09):
pizza off a taco duel? Whatever works to help you
take care of yourselves. That's it today. And if you're
looking for a little humor, which I think we all
are right now, you can also read the awesome McSweeney's
piece titled I Will be away from my Desk on
November sixth by Lauren Thowmen. Here's a little snippet. Thank
you for your email. This is an automated response to
let you know that I will be away from my
(45:31):
desk on Wednesday, November sixth. As you may be aware,
the presidential election in the United States could be decided
by the evening of November fifth, and I will be
up all night, either panicking or celebrating, depending on which
way it goes. Or the election will not be decided
by the evening of November fifth, and I will be
up all night panicking. If the election is decided by
the morning of November sixth, I will not be at
my desk because I will be curled up on the
(45:52):
floor weeping. I'm not sure whether my tears will be
tears of joy or tears of terror, but they are
almost guaranteed to flow, and therefore will be at my desk.
Maybe I will be under my desk, but I definitely
won't be at it. Basically, you can assume that until
we have results, I will not be at my desk,
nor should you want me to be. I assure you
that this is for the best, since my being at
(46:14):
my desk will not make your day better, but it
could easily make it worse. My anxiety will almost certainly
leak out, and it could infect you too. Then neither
of us will be at our desks hilarious, relatable. I
may in fact be reading this from under my desk.
Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review slices. It's real easy.
Watch Gilmore Girls rating five out of five. Where you lead,
(46:37):
I will follows, review always there when you need it.
Take me to stars Hollow, show me Rory and Laura,
I drinking an unrealistic amount of coffee, overeating takeout food,
arguing with Emily, and strolling past a busker, singing in
front of a gazebo. Whatever ails me, whatever stresses me,
I know that the Gilmore Girls will be there for me,
any episode, anytime. I can hop right back in short
(47:01):
aside Team Jess, Team Dean, Nah, Team Late Life lesbian
Dean was a pushover and not smart enough for her.
Logan was a self important douche, and Jess was an
intellectual equal but never quite got his shit in timing together.
Rory deserved better. Now it's your turn, rate and review.
Thanks for lesbon see you tomorrow. Good Game, Holly, Good Game,
(47:21):
Alex Kleinman, few skimming and screaming talking heads. You pretend
they've been paying attention to women's sports the whole time.
Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You
can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network,
our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive
(47:44):
producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder.
Our editors are Emily Rudder, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and
Lindsay Craterwell. Production assistants from Lucy Jones and I'm Your
Host Sarah Spain
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain where we're recording
this before the election. Returns are in and practicing our
box breaths in hal for four, hold for four, ex
hail for four, hold for four, in hal for four,
hold for you get the picture. It's Wednesday, November sixth,
(00:21):
and on today's show, we'll get a much needed punch
of joy from nearly thirty year ESPN broadcast and reporting,
but the legendary Holly Row. We're going to talk about
the record breaking twenty twenty four WNBA season that just
ended and the highly anticipated college basketball season that just began.
Plus we'll hit you at in Iowa basketball. Yes, and
and one of you is a big winner. It's all
(00:42):
coming up right after this Welcome back Orange Slices. Here's
what you need to know today in college basketball news.
(01:02):
The defending champion South Carolina game Cocks tipped off their
season with a sixty eight to sixty two win over
Michigan in a game that went down to the wire.
It's now the fourteenth straight season opening dub in the
dawn S Daly era. Michigan Freshman guard Sila Swords made
things interesting for the Wolverines in the final minute, knocking
down two big threes, but our team ran out of time.
(01:24):
The win extended South Carolina's unbeaten streak to thirty nine games,
including the undefeated campaign they put together last year.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
The game.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Cox lost star center Camilla Cardoso to the WNBA, but
most of their other pieces are still on the roster.
Next up for head coach John stay squad is a
Final four rematch against NC State this coming Sunday. More
on the Cox and college hoops later in the show.
Dinah Trossi, if you're listening, that's your cue to take
a sip. If you know you know. In college soccer,
(01:52):
it's conference tournament time. Schools around the country are vying
for titles this week and the thirty automatic bids to
the NCAA Tournament that are given to those conference champions.
What conference does your favorite team plan? You should know
by now, right, because you did your homework and you
picked a rooting interest, right, all right. Once attorneys are wrapped,
the bracket for the Big Dance will be revealed on Monday,
November eleventh. We'll link to a full college soccer schedule
(02:14):
and to the NCAA's auto bid tracker. In our show
notes in volleyball news, Alex Kleinman announced that she's retiring
from the game in a video posted to Instagram on Monday.
Kleinman's career has spanned twenty eight years and includes a
gold medal with April Ross and Beach Volleyball at the
Tokyo Olympics, plus four first team All American selections and
a Volleyball Magazine National Player of the Year award. As
(02:35):
an indoor volleyball player at Stanford, she also made her
impact felt in the AVP Beach Volleyball League, picking up
AVP Rookie of the Year, Best Blocker, and Most Improved
awards in eight years of competition. Especially impressive to go
from indoor to beach late in her career and be
so dominant. Here's a portion of Alex's farewell.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Dear volleyball, This is it one last final week of
practice with you. It still feels surreal my first awkward
serve at the age of six, to the thrill of
competing on the world's largest stage.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
We've been through it all together.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
You've been my refuge, You've been my passion, you've been
my purpose, you've been my confidence. But you've also been
my greatest enemy, my biggest obstacle, and a big source
of doubt. We've won championships together, been cut from rosters together,
fallen in and out and back in love together. We've
climbed the biggest mountains together and survived the deepest valleys together.
(03:30):
We've lived the grind together over a span of twenty
eight years. I guess that's to be expected. You've taught
me more lessons than I can articulate. And the crazy
thing is you're still teaching them to me, and I
think that's what has always kept me coming back.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Alex will compete for the final time alongside April Ross,
who announced her own retirement just last month in the
AVP League Championship November ninth and tenth in LA Shout
out to that incredible duo on their way out, Vib's
greats for sure. Wait, hold on, who wrote this script?
Mesh Mesh vibs. Are we really gonna do this again?
(04:07):
I'm trying to make vibes happen. Okay, No, we're not
making vibs happen. I cannot see vibs happening. Okay, fine,
we will ask the people of the Internet, who are
always kind we will ask the slices and the people
of the Internet, should Mesh stop trying to make vibs happen.
(04:28):
We all want to make VIP happen, if you know
what I'm saying. Just waiting on those results and thinking
about it every second of the day. Okay, we're gonna
take a quick break. When we come back, we're kicking
it with the Great Holly Rowe stick around joining us now.
She works as a broadcaster and reporter for the WNBA
(04:50):
Women's college basketball, Softball and volleyball, college football, men's college hoops,
and the MNBA. She's approaching her thirtieth year at ESPN
slash A and has covered just about everything. She's the
Queen of the Postgame Trophy Presentation, an Emmy Award winner,
the twenty twenty three Kurt Gouty Electronic Media Award winner
for the Nasmith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame, and she
(05:11):
made history in twenty twenty one as the Utah Jazz
first female color commentator. She kicked the crap out of
cancer and never says no to a sparkle. It's motherfucking
Holly Row Holly.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I love that intro. I love that intro.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
It's all true. I could go on for so much longer.
You've literally worked almost everything at this point.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
The one the only thing you missed is I did
once cover the Running of the Bulls in Spain for
you remember.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
That, and Women's Growed Cup. There was like a bunch
Moore in there. I literally could have kept going on.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Oh no, I love it.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
It's a true, true og and I actually want to
start there. I want to wrap the W season before
we move on to what is expected to be a
thrilling college hoops season. And at the espnW summit last week,
you talked about your first job pulling cable for WNBA games.
Tell us about that. What do you remember about the
early days of the league and how does that help
you put into perspective what we saw this year.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah, I remember just being so excited that we had
a women's league. You know, back when the W started,
no one was supporting looking at owning women's sports. And
the success of a couple of teams during the ninety
six Olympics in Atlanta, most notably women's basketball, you know
that dream Team, and then softball actually really blew up
in that Olympics too. I think people started to see
(06:27):
that women's sports could make money, and so when the
WNBA started, I just remember being like choked up every
second I would see games on TV. I remember writing
a letter to Lifetime and begging to be one of
their announcers, you know, like I just wanted so badly
to be part of this women's league. And so when
the Utah Jazz got a franchise, I hadn't really started
(06:48):
my TV career here yet, and so I was like,
how can I get involved? So I was on the
TV crew. I would pull the cable behind the camera
that's underneath the basket, and you have to coil it up,
and you have to actually be really good at that
because he's moving quickly and has to get places, and
so you've got to be quick so he's not tripping
or people around him are not tripping. And then I
just steadily worked my way up through that organization, and
(07:11):
you know, I would do graphics. I would do any
job I staged managed. I remember stage managing for Bonnie
Bernstein when she came in. Gina Orim and Robin and
Roberts were some of the original announcers, and then I
got my opportunity. They finally came to me. I started
doing local TV games for women's basketball the University of Utah,
and so they let me be the color analyst for
(07:32):
the Utah Stars for a few years before that franchise
moved to San Antonio. So when I say, literally, been
here from the bottom, now we's here, like, I just
I'm so invested in this league because we've been all
of us have been pushing this league, pushing this league.
I mean, I have a cash of angry emails I've
(07:53):
sent to bosses, you know, over twenty years at ESPN
of listen, we're not giving these resources. We need to
invest more, And I'm just really proud of us that
we are investing more and that people are now seeing
what we've been seeing all along, is the value of
women's sports.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
It's interesting you say that about ESPN, because I think
a lot of people don't see the behind the scenes,
and they get frustrated and they don't understand that sometimes
it's about slow progress, constantly pushing, being able to use
places that do have a lot of reach and a
lot of eyeballs to at least get the ball rolling
and then hopefully be able to keep pushing, pushing, pushing,
(08:28):
until there are the right kind of resources and the
right kind of respect for these athletes. And you've been
behind the scenes doing that forever. And when you see
this season and the explosion, good and bad, but lots
of good, it must mean something extra special to have
been able to see it from the beginning to hear now.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
It is extra special because there's a lot of people
who have come before that made this opportunity happen. And
I think Carolyn Peck had a really good analogy when
we were at our espnW some it is it feels
like you're a surfer and you finally you're on that wave,
but it's taken some time to be able to get
to ride that wave into shore. And I kind of
(09:08):
added on to that with you know how, anytime you've
been surfing, you have to paddle really, really hard, and
you miss the wave and the timing's not right, and
then you've got to paddle back out again, and it
feels a little bit like that's what's happened with our sport,
is we've all been paddling for a really long time
and it all had to build up to the perfect momentum,
you know, the perfect class of rookie players to catch
(09:32):
that wave and really bring it in. So it's really
satisfying because I'll give you one story. You know, people
have no idea and I'm not criticizing ESPN at all
on this because I think we have done more and
invested more in women's sports than any company in the
world for a long time. But I'll give you an
idea of that internal struggle. So I remember Sabrina and
(09:54):
Escu was a senior at Oregon and we had kind
of met her at a sophomore when we met her
as a freshman, when she got to the sweet sixteen,
they got their butts kicked. They come back again sophomore year,
and I you know, we've kind of been building up
this mountain with Sabrina and she's playing great. She's having
triple double after triple double, and it's like maybe January
(10:18):
of her senior year, and she's just not getting a
lot of coverage. And I know people are going to
be like, oh, that's not true, you guys are covering her.
It really is true because there was a night that
she set the all time Oregon scoring record men's or women's,
and we had no coverage of her on ESPN or
(10:38):
Sports Center or tweeting about her or nothing. And I
remember Kobe Bryant tweeting about her and tweeting congratulations, and
so I was there. I did some stuff because we
were starting to work on a feature about her, and
I emailed all my bosses. I was laying in my
room at the hotel at the Portland Airport and It's
two o'clock in the morning, and I just could not sleep,
(11:00):
and I was just doing, how can we not be
how can we not tweet about her? How why is
she not on a mainstream ESPN social media channel for
this record? And so I remember sending an angry email
at two am Pacific time to my bosses, like and
I think the line I said was, if Kobe thinks
she's important enough to tweet about, so should we. And
(11:20):
from that point forward, and not only because of me,
but her performance kept demanding that she got a lot
of coverage, and ESPN kind of got behind her and
the ground swell, and you know, then everything happened later
in February with Kobe and finally now ESPN's all in
on it, and you know, it just took some time
for them to see, now this should be mainstream sports coverage,
(11:42):
not women's sports coverage. This should be on every mainstream channel. So,
I mean, we've been fighting for a long time, and
it's very gratifying to see now that we're not having
to fight anymore. Internally, they're asking us like, hey, you know,
Andrea Carter had a good line. She's like, I've got
so many requests. I don't know what to do if
people want to talk to me about women's basketball. That's awesome,
(12:03):
It's awesome.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah, you know. I we appreciate and need the male
allies so much, especially in men's sports, and for years
we did have to point to NBA players to say
they get it, game respect, game right. It's the flubs
on the couch that don't get it. I hope we're
eventually going to get to a point, though, where we
don't need male voices validating the worth of these women
in order for execs to understand that they're worthy.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
I think we're there.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
I think that's a great story, but I think that
that's part of the problem was it was like, well,
this guy thinks she's valid, so now we can and
that used to be so necessary and it was helpful.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
That's the language that the male bosses understand, right.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Yes, and I hope we're moving beyond that.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
You know, we don't need the male voices to validate.
But sometimes it's like peer pressure is a thing, you know.
I don't know if you've ever read Malcolm Gladwell's The
Tipping Point. But one person thinking it's cool and then
the next person who's an influencer. You know, we use
that word in society for a reason. In Flace, luancers
are a big thing, and so it has been important
(13:04):
for our male athletes to be influencers to the rest
of the world, to give the credibility and say, no,
I know how hard that move is. I know what
she just did on the court is so hard. I
can remember a story where Maya Moore hit this crazy
game winner in the Indiana Minnesota Links WNBA finals, and
I remember Doris Burke was at an NBA game the
(13:25):
next day and Chris Paul is trying to replicate her shot,
and you can't you know this year players are men's
players are going into Iowa and trying to hit the
shot with the Caitlin Clark sticker on the floor at
Iowa of where she set the all time scoring record
and they can't hit the shot yep, and so we
don't need it. But influencing is an important thing in
(13:48):
our society and peer pressure, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yeah, it's massive. I don't want to belabor this because
I feel like, hopefully, moving into next season, we'll get
a little bit past this. But I did love that
you called people skimmers and screamers. We saw a lot
of media members, from longtime writers to big name TV
stars that sort of let the Internet set narratives for
the league, and you called some of them skimmers and screamers.
(14:11):
Can you explain that to our listeners?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Well, I think it might have been Carolyn Pecker and
the China that said that, So I want to give
them credit for that, But it is because people are
skimming social media like this, they see something and with
zero context or zero digging into one is this real?
Is this tweet even real? I'll give you an example.
When Marina Maybray, that played for the Chicago Sky got
(14:36):
traded to the Connecticut Sun this season. Right before the
All Star Game, this tweet appeared that looked like it
was a tweet from Dja Carrington and Marina Maybray responding, well,
I don't like you either, and like this spat back
and forth between these two women, and I'm like, oh
my gosh, I can't believe they would, and I start
(14:57):
digging into it and it's false and it's not real.
And so this whole narrative on social media has already
started before those two even become teammates, and it's not real.
So I think that's the thing that we want people
to be more discerning of is don't just skim it
and then react and get hot, because that's what people
(15:17):
on social media are trying to do. That's what the
trolls want. They want you to engage with their to
post because then they get more run and more followers.
So one be more discerning and then don't be the
screamer that's out there screaming. And we have seen a
lot of this, particularly with male members of the media.
I've just been sitting back here chuckling sometimes like, oh,
(15:39):
by what you just said, I can tell that you
have never followed you wa and tell right this second,
Branda Stewart told me a funny story about Pat McAfee,
and you know, God blessed Pat that he's coming to
games and he admits it. He's one of the guys
that will admit it, like I don't know anything about this.
I'm just getting involved because I like Katelyn Park, Right.
(16:00):
So he comes to a New York Liberty Indiana Fever
game and after the game he says, it's dewey. I apologize,
I was not familiar with the game, you know, but
he's owning it, Like, oh crap, you're really really good.
So that's more of this. Barratt is like, don't pretend
like you know, you know, stephen A got into his
(16:20):
bat with Monica McNutt, and it bothered me in this
respect of I really wanted to have. I was like,
who can I pay to go back and look at
every stephen A show over the last four years, five years,
and let's really look at how much time he's ever
spent talking about women's sports, because I promise you it's
not more than ten percent.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
So don't very generous.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah, Like, let's not pretend like you've been here. You
could be talking about women's sports a lot more and
not just Angel and Caitlin. Where's the talk about the
rest of the league, where's the talk about Asia Wilson
and the incredible season She's that really bothered me this
year that Asia Wilson is having quite possibly the best
(17:05):
season we've ever seen in WNBA history.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
It took a while not able to catch up.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Absolutely it was infuriating.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Lasting on the w quickly. An incredible run of head
coach firings in the league lately, I mean an unbelievable number.
What do you make of all the changes?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
This is what we call leveling up, right, So we
have seen this, I would say over the past five years,
since Mark Davis became an owner, since Josia and Clara
Sai became owners, we have billionaire owners matt Eshbia and
Phoenix and another a good example, and so they have
money and resources that some of the previous ownership groups
(17:45):
were not willing to spend or not able to spend. Like,
let's be honest, I'm I absolutely love the ownership group
in Seattle. It's a group of women who with their
retirement money, you bought a team and they're trying to
keep up. And like, I love those women so much
because they're the ogs and they're spending their own money,
you know. So I don't ever want to make it
seem like we don't appreciate all groups of ownership, but
(18:07):
the billionaire owners. And when Mark Davis paid Becky Hammond
a million dollars a season, first time ever we saw
a coach in the w make a million dollars a season.
That's signaling a level up, like we're going to get
the best. Who's the best? How can we get them?
We have to pay them? And now we're seeing other
groups follow suit. Like I'll give you Indiana as an example.
(18:28):
I think Christy Sides did an absolutely unbelievable job with
that team last year. You know, they were super competitive
last year, they were in every game, they just about
made the playoffs last year, and then this season, you know,
she gets Kitlin. I'm in her huddles. I know she's
a good coach. I know she's putting people in positions
(18:49):
to succeed. Could she handle maybe all the personalities and
all the outside noise and maybe that was a problem.
But Indiana said, we have to get even better. We
did a good job, we have to get even better.
And Stephanie White is an ex and O guru, She's
an offensive genius. So I just think it's a we
(19:10):
can be better and we're going to and we're going
to put money behind it.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yeah, Okay, let's get to the college game, because I
want to make sure we have enough time for this.
The biggest storylines, We'll start with last year's champions South Carolina,
last season's tournament MVP, Camila Cardosa is gone. She's off
to the WNBA. But the team is bringing back a
whole lot of talent. Nine players returning who accounted for
almost eighty four percent of the team's scoring. What will
(19:33):
be the biggest obstacle for the game Cocks and trying
to repeat.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
I think that Don Staley has done a masterful job
at making sure all of these high level, highly sought
after stars in high school find a way to connect
as teammates and not have it just be about them.
I mean, there were games last year. I think Malaysia
Fuol Wiley is a great example of how Don was
able to do this. This is a kid that is
(19:57):
going to be one of the best players you've seen
it when she comes into the w the rest of
her college career. Just remember my Lesia ful Wiley. She's it.
She has got juice, handles, elevation shot. I mean, yes,
she'll improve, Yes she can get better. But she is it,
and Don Staley gave her she didn't start at first,
in a little bit of playing time a little more. Oh,
(20:18):
you're not going to play defense. You're not going to
hardly play at all. You're going to learn that if
you don't defend, you're going to sit here on the
bench with me. And the way Dawn handled her last year,
I thought was masterful. And she's going to keep doing
that with all of these good players. So I really
think that the biggest challenge South Carolina will overcome is
South Carolina how they can vibe internally. I know this
(20:40):
team is super close. I went to a South Carolina
volleyball match when I was there for football a couple
of weeks ago. The whole basketball team's there. They're all
sitting together. They're all like in it, getting hot dogs together.
Joyce Edwards is their new freshman who I think will
take the basketball world by storm this year. She's looking
phenomenal and Don said, we are much better right now
(21:03):
than we were last.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Year at this Oh that's scary.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
That's scared everybody. So I just think they're loaded. I
think they've got a generational talent in Joyce Edwards coming
in Malesia Full Wiley so and Tahina pop House. She
doesn't get enough credit maybe nationally as a point guard.
She runs a calm show, can score when she needs to,
and I think she's a real key for their success
this year.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Did you hear anything from Don about Ashlan Watkins. This
is the junior currently suspended. She was arrested in August
for a first degree assault and battery and kidnapping. We
haven't gotten much information about her availability.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah, I haven't heard much either. I think that they
are still working it out. Don has not come out
and said a lot about that. It's an interesting conundrum
because you know, I'm always a proponent of get all
the facts before you come out with any statements. And
I don't know if there's still gathering facts, if they're
still trying to find out what actually happened. But I
do know that domestic violence and that kind of thing
(21:59):
cannot be tolerated. So I've been a little intrigued that,
you know, that they haven't said a lot about that,
because that's a big issue, particularly with college aged people
and relationships, and so I think there's an important opportunity
there to teach and learn and grow, so I don't
know what's happening there. Ashlyn is a great player. Every
(22:21):
time I've interacted with her, I've been very impressed. She's
a lovely young lady. Something bad happened, and so, you know,
I feel really terrible about that, but we don't know
much about it, and I hope they can get it sorted.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yeah. I always advocate for transparency in those cases, not
to say more than what you know, but to at
least be willing to come out and stand on whatever
you want to say about how you're handling it, because
it is too often that we see coaches sort of
not be willing to speak out about stuff like that
or to take the proper hold players accountable. It sounds
like they're still trying to get all the information on that,
and that's why we haven't heard much, So we'll keep
(22:53):
checking back in on that story. We've also got this
incredible story of UCLA USC the rivalry coming back in
such a big way. It is a gift to the game.
What's the biggest adjustment for these teams joining the Big Ten?
Do you think that's going to affect them in a
meaningful way?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I do. Number One, the travel is going to be wild.
I know they've tried to downplay it. It's it is
going to be a challenge like I've seen it be
a challenge for their football counterparts. It is a challenge.
Both USC and UCLA football are struggling, and you know,
the basketball teams are a little different. But I do
think that the travel of the new conference is a deal,
(23:28):
is a thing, but I think that they have depth.
One of the things that both of these teams have
is depth. You know, USC has depth that they haven't
had before. I was just watching their game in Paris
against Ole Miss, and the thing that stood out to
me the biggest, the most was pace. You know, I
think that their pace was slow to start the game.
Ole Miss was able to disrupt them. I think they
(23:48):
turned it over like more than twenty two might ended
up being like more like twenty four twenty five times
for USC. There's going to be an adjustment period. There's
new players. Gigi's still doing her theme that there's new players.
How do they share all those things? UCLA's loaded too.
I'm really excited. I think Lauren Betts is a name
that people might know about. She's not one of the
(24:11):
top ten players in the country that you're hearing about,
and you should. She is unstoppable. You know, she's maybe
the key to their success. She is a masterful player.
She's getting better and better, and now she's got help
around her. She's got players from the transfer portal, Keiki
Rice continuing to improve. So I think that they're going
to be a legit team to deal with.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah, I'm so excited to watch those two teams and
see what the ceiling might be for Juju Watkins this year.
You know, Stanford's another former Pac twelve school at a
new conference cardinal now in the ACC. They'll be without
Tara Vanderveer, all time winning a coach in NCAA basketball.
This is the first time they will be without her
since nineteen eighty four eighty five season. That long ago,
(24:52):
they also lost camp Bring to the WNBA draft, star
forward Kiki Earfn to USC and the transfer portal. We
got a whole new Sarah. How do you see them
looking under new head coach Kate Pey Well, First of.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
All, I want to give Kate pay some love because
she is a She played there, she has been a
longtime assistant for Tara vander Beer and over the last
ten years, I have watched Tara knowing that Kate was
probably going to be the person to replace her, and
then a few years ago they actually did name her
the coach in waiting, so Tara would seed more and
more of practice to her, more and more of scout
(25:24):
to her. Kate has been a voice on this team
for a long time now, and so I think this
transition will go well. But I do know that Tara
is one in a million. You know they're going to
name the court after her. She is one of the
most interesting women I've ever been around. I've got to
become I would say good close friends with Tara. She's
one of the most interesting women in the world because
(25:44):
if she wants to try something, she gets good at
it until she masters it. She figured out how to
play the piano, become a bike rider, a sailor. Anything
Tara wants to do, she masters. So they will miss her.
It's going to be a transition, but I do believe
Kate pay has been put in a position to succeed
because of how Tara has groomed her, and Kate's a
(26:06):
kick ass lady, terrific, terrific coach. I think she's going
to do well there.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
You've been around these athletes for years and years, and
I wonder if you notice the nil money, the massive
TV ratings, the bigger and better opportunities at a younger
age to start training harder, the attention the viewers. Is
there a big difference that you noticed in today's college players?
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Oh yeah, I mean they've got their own money, you know.
I don't think that I noticed a big difference on
the court per se. I'll use Flage Johnson as an example.
At LSU. Flage is a millionaire. She just bought twenty
acres of land outside of Atlanta. Like she is a
mover and a shaker. And I remember sitting down doing
an interview with Flage as a freshman, and she had
(26:51):
laid out this path for herself. You know, I want
to be on Billboard Top twenty. I want to be
you know in ESPN tip. I want to be you know,
wrapping in. And so she has had this plan and
this goal for herself. Shows up to practice sometime. I
think she dropped twenty five points last night. She had
thirty in their first exhibition game. I have found a
(27:12):
capacity of these young players to handle more and do more,
do a photo sheot. I mean she was on stage
with Lil Wayne two nights ago. Now she played in
the exhibition game last night. I've seen a capacity to
handle more. I have also seen a capacity for more anxiety.
We've seen some players miss parts of the season because
of mental health. So I hope we're still allowing kids
(27:37):
to grow up and have fun. College basketball should be fun.
That's the joy in it. I do want them to
still have the joy, but I also still want them
to get paid. I think getting paid is not a
bad thing. I love that the women are getting the anil.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, it's that balance, Like the professionalization of it allows
them to enter the WNBA more ready to have money
to fund fun in addition to what they're doing on
the court. But it does come with some drawbacks in
terms of time, energy, expectation, people gambling on them, and
being mad when things don't go their way, all that
stuff that comes with having this higher profile. Flage is
(28:12):
a perfect example of someone who's really been impressive in
handling all the different things. Page Beckers too. We were
joking kind of all summer long about where in the
world is Page Beckers? What event is she at? You know,
she's like trying to compete with Billy Jean King for
being at the most women's sporting events all summer long.
But now back on it happen, He's ready to go.
And how dangerous are the Huskies if Paige and the
(28:34):
rest of that team stays healthy.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
I feel like we've been saying this now for five years.
If they stay healthy. I mean, you've got to remember
that when Page has played, they've been in the National
Championship Game they lost to South Carolina. They've been in
the Final Four. When Page has been Page, they've done
very well. You know, they're at the Final four last year.
So the help of Pagebeckers is a huge deal. Asy
(28:59):
fun is back, her help is also a huge deal.
But the health of their bigs, I think people forget.
You know, outside of Ali Edwards, they've had a lot
of their bigs out for the season with injury. Gino
has done some of his most masterful seasons of coaching
the last few years, juggling a roster that just did
not have enough people, and yet there they are in
the Final four again last year, which I just think
(29:20):
is maybe one of his best coaching jobs of all time.
Gino Oriema, I think November twentieth, has an opportunity to
set the all time wins record in college basketball, past
Mike Krzyzewski, past Tara van Derveer. So that is something
we should celebrate. I want people to really give him
a lot of credit because he has poured more into women,
(29:42):
and he was the og man that was pouring support
and love and attention and demanding of women and putting
them in a position to succeed long before anyone else.
So he gets a lot of credit. But man, it's
all about the help the coage has had. I know,
I really want to get all in on them because
they are exciting, but I just have so much anxiety
(30:05):
for how will their bodies handle on this?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Yeah, you didn't even mention the Yukon mascot also hurt
last year, so we're praying and hoping.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
That yes, I've forgotten Jonathan, Yes healthy this year.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
IOWA two time defending national champion runner ups. They didn't
make the preseason top twenty five. Now no Katelyn Clark,
no Kate Martin, no coach Lisa Bluter. Still out of
the top twenty five. You think that's fair and right?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
I don't think it's fair. And right, because they're still
pretty loaded. Actually, I will have an Iowa game next Sunday.
We're doing a big doubleheader in Charlotte with NC State
South Carolina rematch and then Virginia Tech versus Iowa. So
I'll have a better idea next Sunday just how Iowa looks.
But listen, Hannah Stolky is a player that should be
(30:51):
on everybody's radar. She was a sophomore last year. She
is a player that can take over games. We saw
her score forty two points in a game last season
and that was an Iowa record until Caitlyn broke it
again on her senior night. But Sydney a falter. They
have players. They got a transfer in from Villanova who's
supposed to be brilliant, So they had a top I
(31:12):
think a top ten or top fifteen recruiting class. Jan
Jensen has been there. She's an Iowa legend. Are there changes, Yes,
Caitlyn's a huge loss. Like, let's just be honest, But
so is Kate Martin. You know, so is Kate Martin.
So they lost some important pieces. They still have some talent,
and I know this. They bust their ass. Jan will
(31:34):
demand that this Iowa team is prepared and ready, and
so I do think that's unfair that they're out of
the top twenty five.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Give us one dark horse team to keep an eye on.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Ooh, dark horse. I mean, I don't know how dark
horse this is, but I am Kentucky. You know, they
have a new coach, Kenny is there from He came
from Virginia Tech. He had gotten Virginia Tech to the
women's final four. And they have a transfer in Georgia
a who was one of the key point guards in
that run that helped get them to the final four.
So he's at Kentucky now, and you know Kentucky's in
(32:07):
the SEC. The SEC is tough, but I think Kentucky
could be a big wins improvement, could be competitive. He's
a brilliant coach, a brilliant man. Absolutely adore him. And
then this is not a dark course because they're loaded.
But I'm actually going to LSU on Thursday. I'm gonna
go to practice, they have an exhibition or they have
a game Friday night. And I think LSU could be
(32:30):
a top contender this season. They are stacked loaded. Anissa
Moros showing us that she can be a dominant player
Kayla Williams coming in off a really great freshman year,
and Flage is showing that she is ready to lead
this team. And you know, Kim Moulky's always gonna stir
something up, so.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
It's gonna Kim.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Kim's always gonna Kim. Yeah, So I'm really excited. I'll
kind of get my first look and really get to
see like how they're built, what the playing time looks like,
all that kind of stuff this weekend. So I'm really
excited to see the Tigers in person.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Well, Holly, you're the absolute best. I could talk to
you for literally hours, and you could give us information
and facts for hours. I want to leave on this
one note. Like I said, you're nearing thirty years in
the biz. I have never heard a single person say
a bad word about you. In fact, I have only
heard people talk about how you are the best person
in the world. You are friends with coaches, you are
(33:24):
friends with players, you are friends with other media members.
What is your advice for people coming up on how
to create the kind of relationships you have while still
succeeding not having to trade in the idea of needing
to be sensationalistic or funny at the expense of people,
or unfair or critical in order to lead in terms
of coverage. Because I think you found the most beautiful
(33:46):
balance in the way people talk about you. Such a
testament to your career. How do you advise young people
coming up to do the same?
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Okay, Well, first and foremost, I'm a raging bitch at
the airport. So there are a lot of people at
the airport who will counter at this way. Like no,
I saw her push past us. I am the worst
version of myself at the airport, and so I just
want to think I don't travel much. Yeah, I just
want to say sorry. I'm almost a four million miler
right now, and so my patience, my patience for people
(34:15):
at the airport has just worn fin. So I'll say
that apology. I'm not perfect, you know. I think I've
been competitive with coworkers in this business. I'm not perfect,
But here's what I will say. I am wildly interested
and curious about people and what makes them tick. And
I think when people understand that you are genuinely interested
(34:38):
in them, and you don't want to just get to
know the media version of them, You want to get
to know the real version of them. I mean, I
have been so privileged. I've gone on a road trip
with Pat Summit. I've drank moonshine in her kitchen, wine
at Gino Oriam as Tara van Derveer has made me dinner.
I've stayed at her house. Like I am so eager
(35:00):
you get to know who these people are as humans
and real people. I had a very interesting conversation and
I'll keep it private, but I'm going to tell you
two and a half hour hardcore conversation with Kim Moulki
about Brittany Griner and how she was handling that. We
(35:20):
went at it, but we have enough respect in our
relationship that I Am not going to take the sensational
headlines that people want to say, and I'm going to
ask her the whise, how did this happen? Why did
you do this? I really want to be fair to people.
You see so many headlines that are wrong all the time,
and so I always want to get to know to
the bottom of people who they are. We have players
(35:44):
in the WNBA who are controversial and who maybe people
haven't liked on the outside. I'll give you an example.
You know, when Britney Grinder was being detained. People were
asking me, I was really vocal in my support and
I'm fighting behind the scenes. And anytime you would tweet
about Brittany you just get crush and maybe it's Russian bots.
I don't know who all these people are, but I
(36:05):
was like, I actually know Britney grinn are very well.
I love her, her heart, her soul, who she is.
She's not perfect, but if we only love the perfect
people in our lives, that would be a long and
lonely life. So I guess my advice to young people is,
don't fall for the narratives. Don't fall for the version
(36:26):
of people you see on social media. Get to know people,
spend time, give them grace if they say or do
something that they're getting blasted for. Find out why. Don't
be that journalist that just like jumps on the bandwagon.
We see that so often. Find out why, find out why,
have genuine curiosity, and then treat people the way that
(36:49):
you would like to be treated. That's pretty simple.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
I think when you create those relationships, if something does
come up where somebody falters, make a mistake, does the
wrong thing, says the wrong thing, you have a relationship
where you can be fair and honest in criticizing them
and covering them accurately, but not end that relationship or
spoil it because you've created this this baseline, and it
actually perhaps potentially lets you be more fair in criticizing
(37:12):
because you've set that up as opposed to saying, well,
I'm friends with them now, so I'm not going to
say anything bad about them, because that's not doing right.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
No, No, because think about the best relationships you have.
They're honest, right, the best relationships you have in your
life are honest, and people who can be honest with
you when they say, you know, what happened here that
didn't go well. We've had to criticize a lot of coaches.
I had to criticize every one of those people I
just mentioned because things aren't always perfect. But I think
(37:39):
if they know you're coming from a place of true
honesty and kindness, Like I'm going to get to the
bottom of this for you, because maybe this was wrong,
and we have to say that it was wrong, but
I'm going to let you explain why you were wrong
and what happened. You know, I'm going to give you
that grace.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
So no, we're making me think of my interview with
Christine Brennan. That was really my intention, because I have a.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Really Yeah, I was proud of you for having them on,
and I mean, just to get into that again. I
don't want to be one of those people that only
sees the headlines and then comments on this because I
don't know all the behind the scenes. I've known Christine
for a long time. I would not say I'm really
close to her. I've seen her at social engagements, whatever,
but I've respected her for a long time in her
work for a long time. I also thought what she
(38:22):
did was wrong, and so I think we have to
be able to say that. We have to be able
to criticize each other. I've done things that I was like, oh,
I don't like how I said that. I wish I
wouldn't have said it like this. I've been wrong, But
I do think it was important that you gave her
an opportunity to explain herself and the whys of things.
And it's not to make excuses, it's to take it
(38:44):
out of the skim and scream column of people only
saw this on a skim and scream.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
But it didn't move us forward. Yeah, it didn't move
us forward to skim and scream about it. It actually
moved us forward to have a conversation. And even if
she didn't end up at the place I hoped for,
we got to understand the nuanced in context of why
there was a problem in the first place.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Right. So, we had a guy at ESPN that came in,
John Slawatsky. He was brilliant and he would teach us
how to ask a better I went to the so
you'll remember this when I tell you, and he would
tell us to ask questions that were neutral and lean.
That means, do not put the premise of your column,
or the premise of your book, or the quote you're
(39:25):
trying to fish for. You can't put that in the question.
That's not fair. That is not fair. Your questions need
to be neutral if you are truly good at this job.
And so that that is something that I try to
be very very mindful of. Is not putting my own
opinion in the question, maybe unless it's positive. Like I
know sometimes in these podium interviews I do insert my opinion,
(39:47):
like I think this year I was like, you know,
Benigel Leney, you have fought through so much. Oh my gosh,
you know she fought through so much and all this stuff,
I want people to know that. Yes, so maybe I
look at it more as I'm putting information in my questions,
but the questions have to be neutral in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
To get the fairest and most honest answer right for sure. Well, Holly,
you're pro and again I could talk to you forever.
But thank you so much for the time. I know
this is like a very rare day off for you,
and you spent it with us, so we're so appreciative.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Well, you have done such a great job for a
long time and been one of the true og supporters
of women's sports forever, and so I wanted to honor you,
and I am busy, but I think that we have
to honor each other as women, and like I'm going
to help you with your new project because I'm proud
of you and it's important and we're going to lift
each other up. So I will always make this time.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Thanks again to Holly Row. We got to take another
break when we come back. Yes, and straight from the
cornfields of Iowa. Welcome back, slices. Let's talk a little
bit about Iowa women's basketball. No, not the current team, No,
not the Kitlyn Clark years. There's actually more to Iowa
(41:02):
basketball than that, so it's time for another. Yes, and
the Lisa Blueder Iowa era ended in the offseason. She
stepped down as the winningest head coach in program history,
having led the Hawkeyes to eighteen NCUBA Tournament appearances in
twenty four seasons. And of course, the aforementioned megastar, Caitlin
Clark was drafted to the Indiana Fever, so she's gone
(41:24):
as well. But did you know that their era wasn't
the only era during which Iowa made waves. Let's hop
in the old time machine and take it all the
way back to the early eighties when head coach c.
Vivian Stringer was at the Helm. She stepped out of
the scene in Iowa City in nineteen eighty three, having
already established her reputation prior to joining the Hawkeye She
guided Cheney State University to the nineteen eighty two NCUBA Final.
(41:47):
That team is still the only HBCU squad to make
a run to the Women's Final four and national Championship game.
It was also the first to have an all black
coaching staff in twelve seasons at Iowa Stringer propelled the
program to nine straight NCAA Tournament appearances and the program's
first ever number one ranking. She also coached standout player
(42:08):
and Women's Basketball Hall of Famer Michelle Edwards, the first
female Hawkeye Hooper to have her jersey retired. It was
Stringer's all time win record that Blooter broke back in
twenty fourteen. Stringer posted a two hundred and sixty nine
and eighty four record overall in her time at Iowa
before moving on to coach Rutgers from nineteen ninety five
until she retired in twenty twenty two. She was the
(42:29):
first coach, regardless of gender, to take three different schools
to the Final Four. Her legacy in the game speaks
for itself. If you want to know more about c
Vivian Stringer, Mish would highly suggest reading her memoir, Standing Tall.
We'll add it to the Good Game book Club and
link to it in our show notes. So yes, Lisa
Bluter and Caitlin Clark and c Vivian Stringer and the
(42:52):
Iowa greats that came before them. All right, slices, it's
time to pick a sports Prize pack winner. That's right,
we gathered all those survey responses, and thank you so much.
Your responses were super helpful and honestly they were a
joy to read. Thank you for the kind words, Thank
you for the smart suggestions. Special shout out to Megan Flood.
(43:13):
I assume that's you, m Flood who suggested including the
day and the data of each show at the top
to help folks who catch up on a few days
at once place the timing of the news and the
interviews and all that smart idea. You'll notice we started
doing that this week. So with no further ado, the
randomly selected winner who filled out a survey and will
win the sports prize pack is Joey Maldonado. Joey, you win,
(43:42):
will be emailing you to get the address to send
your sports prize pack. Enjoy. We so appreciate all of
you for your feedback, so thanks again. And if you
didn't take the survey but you have thoughts, we'd love
to hear from you. Hit us up on email good
Game at wondermedianetwork dot com or leave us a voicemail
at eight seven two two oh four fifty seventy. As always,
we love that you're listening, but we want you to
(44:02):
get in the game every day too. So here's our
good game play of the day. Just take some deep breaths. Literally,
that's it. We can take one right now. Actually, if
you're not familiar with box breaths, they're truly a game changer,
and if it helps, you could slow down your brain
by picturing drawing the top line of a box while
you inhale, the line going down while you hold, line
(44:23):
back across while you exhale, and the line back up
to connect the box while you hold again. So try
it now. Deep breath in for four seconds, hold for
four seconds. Deep breath out for four seconds, hold for
four seconds. Maybe you're already feeling better, but yeah, take
(44:48):
care of yourself, slices. Prioritize your mental health. Spend time
with people who don't add to your stress level. If
you can, take a break from the internet if necessary.
Maybe you watch your favorite comfort movie, read a book
that you love, eat your face food. I actually have
a friend who did a Mac and Cheese election last night,
choosing a winner after making a handful of different box
brands of mac and cheese. Great, do that do a
(45:09):
pizza off a taco duel? Whatever works to help you
take care of yourselves. That's it today. And if you're
looking for a little humor, which I think we all
are right now, you can also read the awesome McSweeney's
piece titled I Will be away from my Desk on
November sixth by Lauren Thowmen. Here's a little snippet. Thank
you for your email. This is an automated response to
let you know that I will be away from my
(45:31):
desk on Wednesday, November sixth. As you may be aware,
the presidential election in the United States could be decided
by the evening of November fifth, and I will be
up all night, either panicking or celebrating, depending on which
way it goes. Or the election will not be decided
by the evening of November fifth, and I will be
up all night panicking. If the election is decided by
the morning of November sixth, I will not be at
my desk because I will be curled up on the
(45:52):
floor weeping. I'm not sure whether my tears will be
tears of joy or tears of terror, but they are
almost guaranteed to flow, and therefore will be at my desk.
Maybe I will be under my desk, but I definitely
won't be at it. Basically, you can assume that until
we have results, I will not be at my desk,
nor should you want me to be. I assure you
that this is for the best, since my being at
(46:14):
my desk will not make your day better, but it
could easily make it worse. My anxiety will almost certainly
leak out, and it could infect you too. Then neither
of us will be at our desks hilarious, relatable. I
may in fact be reading this from under my desk.
Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review slices. It's real easy.
Watch Gilmore Girls rating five out of five. Where you lead,
(46:37):
I will follows, review always there when you need it.
Take me to stars Hollow, show me Rory and Laura,
I drinking an unrealistic amount of coffee, overeating takeout food,
arguing with Emily, and strolling past a busker, singing in
front of a gazebo. Whatever ails me, whatever stresses me,
I know that the Gilmore Girls will be there for me,
any episode, anytime. I can hop right back in short
(47:01):
aside Team Jess, Team Dean, Nah, Team Late Life lesbian
Dean was a pushover and not smart enough for her.
Logan was a self important douche, and Jess was an
intellectual equal but never quite got his shit in timing together.
Rory deserved better. Now it's your turn, rate and review.
Thanks for lesbon see you tomorrow. Good Game, Holly, Good Game,
(47:21):
Alex Kleinman, few skimming and screaming talking heads. You pretend
they've been paying attention to women's sports the whole time.
Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You
can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network,
our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive
(47:44):
producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder.
Our editors are Emily Rudder, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and
Lindsay Craterwell. Production assistants from Lucy Jones and I'm Your
Host Sarah Spain
Host
Sarah Spain
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