September 27, 2024 • 46 mins
Jordan Robinson, co-host of the Queens of the Court podcast, and Ben Pickman, women’s basketball writer for The Athletic, join Sarah for the latest edition of “Group Chat” to discuss the upcoming WNBA semifinals and why the league’s statement calling out racism was too little, too late. Plus, Sarah calls bullshit on Captain Dick Rocket and a company offering bets on Angel Reese’s dating life.
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Follow Jordan here
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Follow Ben here
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Listen to Queens of the Court here
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Listen to The Athletic Women’s Basketball Show here
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Read the Philadelphia Inquirer’s full story on a potential WNBA expansion team here
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Check out Nancy Armour’s column on why Caitlin Clark needs to call out toxic fans here
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The NWSL schedule is here
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The college volleyball schedule is here
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The college hockey schedule is here
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The full WNBA playoff schedule and results are here
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're starting
the show with a huge you to the lady with
the band Nails shirt. At Wednesday nights, connecticuts on Indiana
Fever Game, Go Kick Rocks Lady. On today's show, we
got another group chat. We're talking all things WNBA with
Jordan Robinson, co host of the Queens of the Court podcast,
and Ben Pickman, women's basketball writer for The Athletic. Plus
(00:21):
Captain Dick Rocket is at it again. It's all coming
up right after this. Welcome back my little slices. Happy Friday.
Here's what you need to know today. Round one of
the WNBA Playoffs is complete and we're looking ahead to
(00:42):
the semi finals that start on Sunday. First up, the
New York Liberty host in the Las Vegas Aces at
three pm Eastern on ABC. It's a twenty twenty three
finals rematch and it's sure to be a hell of
a five game series. Who will prevail in the Battle
of the last two WNBA MVPs to Wilson or Brianna Stewart,
Who will have the upper hand point guard Chelsea Gray
(01:04):
or sabrinian Escu. Clear your schedule This one is going
to be fun. Then, at eight thirty pm Eastern on ESPN,
the Connecticut Sun played their first road game of these
playoffs at the Minnesota Links. Will Nafisa Collier serve up
another forty Burger can Alyssa Thomas at another triple double
tour all time tally? Only time will tell. This should
be a good one. Some more WNBA news, a w
(01:27):
team might be in Philadelphia's future. Per the Philadelphia Inquirer,
the seventy six Ers have plans to bid for a team,
a detail that was uncovered during a public city meeting
about the seventy six ers new arena proposal on page
sixty six of an eighty page PowerPoint presentation. In a
statement to the Inquirer, a seventy six Ers team spokesperson said, quote,
(01:47):
we share in Mayor Parker's desire to bring a WNBA
franchise to Philadelphia and have been engaged with the league
on the process. Our goal is for our new arena
to service home to both the seventy six Ers and
a WNBA franchise. End quote. We'll link to the Inquirer's
full story in our show Notes to Soccer. There's one
game in the NWSL Tonight, angel City FC host in
(02:07):
the Washington Spirit at ten pm Eastern on Prime Video.
Angel City is still sitting in the tenth spot in
the standings with twenty two points, three points behind number
eight Racing Louisville, and they'll try to close that gap
with a win tonight. There are six more games this
weekend as well, including a three to four matchup between
Gotham FC and Casey Current on Saturday, and a five
to six matchup between NC Courage and Chicago Red Stars
(02:30):
on Sunday. We'll link to that full schedule in our
show notes. Some exciting news for the NWSL as well.
The average team now worth one hundred and four million dollars,
up fifty seven percent from a year ago. According to Sportico,
angel CITYFC, a club that joined the NWSL in twenty
twenty two, leads the whole league with a two hundred
and fifty million dollar valuation on its own. This comes
(02:52):
in a year where the league is set records for attendance, revenue,
and TV ratings. What's that age old adage we keep
coming back to in women's sports, If you build it
and invest in it, they will come to college volleyball,
the non conference portion of the schedule has come to
a close. So far, this season has been full of
surprises and upsets. Pitt and Nebraska are currently holding court
(03:14):
as the best teams in the land, and there's a
slew of rank sides tipping off conference action over the weekend.
We'll link to the full schedule in our show notes.
The top three teams in the nation hit the court tonight. First,
it's number three Stanford versus Notre Dame at six thirty Eastern,
Then the aforementioned Pittsburgh Panthers against Clemson at seven eastern,
followed by number two Nebraska playing UCLA at eight eastern
(03:35):
to the ice. The college hockey season enters its second
weekend with a big couple matchups. Number three Minnesota opens
its season with back to back games on the road
against number nine Connecticut tonight and Saturday, and number two
Wisconsin opens its season at home with Lyndenwood visiting for
a doubleheader. In college soccer, number three Duke takes the
pitch tonight against Southern Methodist and number four UNC will
(03:55):
face number nineteen Virginia, both at seven pm Eastern. A
majority of the top tenor and Action on Sunday too.
Will link to the entire weekend schedule in our show notes.
We got to take a quick break. When we come back,
time for another group chat with Jordan Robinson and Ben Pickman.
(04:16):
It's time for group chat where we take the tea
from the text to the airwaves. Joining us today, she's
co host of the Queens of the Court podcast, host
of the ESPN Plus show this Week in wcc Basketball,
and hosts for the Women's Sports Network. She's co authoring
a book on the history of women's hoops and you
don't want to mess with her and her hubby in
a co ed hoops league. It's Jordan Robinson. What's up, Jordan?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Hi, I'm so glad that last part got in there.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yes, I've seen the picks. I've seen proof. Joining her,
he's a staff writer at The Athletic, cover in the
WNBA and women's college basketball, one of the hosts of
the Athletic Women's Basketball Podcast. He's a Wisconsin alum, an
elite camp counselor, and a marathon runner. It's Ben Pickman.
What's up, Ben?
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Wow, that is a great introduction, but I'm still dwelling
on Jordan's introduction because that just blew me away.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, Judy, about your championship, I would love to so
me and my husband wearing a co ed league and
we won the championship and it was amazing because I'm
a guard, he's a post player, so my assists were up.
He was dominating inside, I was shooting from the outside.
Just a scary tandem to go up against.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yah sounds like a perfect perfect match in marriage and
in hoops. Speaking of hoops, we are knee deep in
the WNBA playoffs. There is so much to get to.
I want to start with reflecting on the first round.
I got called the casual on Twitter by a number
of people for complaining about the best of three format
in the first round. But I know I am not
alone in wanting more to Rossi and the Mercury, more Jewel,
(05:50):
Lloyd and the Store, more Kaitlin Clark and the Fever.
That was probably enough of the Liberty Dream series. But
you get my point. Are you with me? Jordan? Is
it time to to best of five in the first round?
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
I think we've made steps forward because we've come from
the single elimination first round, which.
Speaker 5 (06:10):
Was just bonker.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
I think we could all agree on that that was
really hard because yes, it gave kind of that March
badness atmosphere, but it didn't allow for a team to
have a bad game. Like if somebody was just having
a bad game, then they can come back and kind of,
you know, have a good game the next time.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
So that's what the best of three series did.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Now it's time to expand from that, and I hope
that we can see that there was still some really
high basketball being played and we want to continue to
watch that. And Sarah, I think you made this point
of like giving the other teams a chance to make
some money off of the postseason run. I think that's smart,
(06:51):
and it also I think the conversations around making the
regular season longer, I don't think we want that. Look,
I love the Sparks. We don't want to see the
Sparks way anymore games Like put the bad teams out
of their misery and let's give more games to the
good teams of the postseason.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I agree with that. I think I could be convinced
on an even longer regular season, but we're just year
two of the forty game season. I'm fine with a
couple more years of that. While it shakes out, and
then figuring out once we add another team next year,
two more teams in twenty twenty six, if we want
to have a few more opportunities for teams to face
each other, then Ben She mentioned that I talked about
the financial aspect on Twitter and listen. I was only
part of a team ownership group for a couple of years,
(07:30):
but in those meetings you do talk about how important
it is to make the postseason so that you can
potentially host a playoff game. Not only for the financials
and the money it brings in with merchant ticket sales
and concessions and all that, but the brand affinity that
is driven by success by having a team that gets
to that point and that you can get fans to
show up for that playoff atmosphere brings them back the
(07:52):
next year more often because it just feels different than
a regular season game. I think the WNBA financials are
so different now that not only do they not to
save money on avoiding the travel and the things that
come with a longer series, but also they can afford
to make more money by capitalizing on teams getting a
chance to host at least one game. So are you
good with expansion to ben Are you gonna call me
(08:12):
a casual who just got here who only wants to
see Kaitlin Clark? And if she had won, I would
have been saying this no.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
And I'm all for a playoff reformatting the postseason, and
I do think it is something that is going to
happen over the next couple of years. I think there
was kind of a general openness among players and coaches
I talked to heading into the postseason that you know,
as the WNBA expands to fourteen teams and sixteen teams,
if the playoff format is going to continue to be
reevaluated right to the regular season format. I mean, I
(08:38):
think the footprint of the WNBA is only going to
get longer because it has to, as you know, team thirteen, fourteen, fifteen,
and eventually sixteen comes in, and so it makes sense
that you know, the footprint in the fall continues to go,
you know, late October into November, potentially you know, making
the arena dates work with the NBA too. But you know,
it wouldn't shock me if the playoff format changed as well,
and maybe you know it's three out of five, maybe
(08:59):
it's actually going back to conferences if we get eight
to eight, you know, evenly in a couple of years.
I do think one other thing to consider. Brianna Stort
made this point to me in a conversation we had
leading into the playoffs, is in the short term at
least do they re evaluate the two to one format, right,
Because one of the big reasons it was put in
was because of the.
Speaker 5 (09:16):
Current charter plans, right and how right?
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Like everyone's taking commercial flights and the league had then
moved to charters for you know, the postseason before now
putting in the full charter plan. But in theory, with
charter flights being the norm even next year, like, couldn't
you go one to one one and allow what you're
talking about, Sarah, that everyone gets a chance to host
a game. Now we know the WNBA post season schedule
really tight, really condensed. Those games are on top of
(09:41):
each other, So maybe logistically that's tough, but that could
also be something in the short term, even before a
three out of five change goes into place.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, that's a great point, Ben, Were there any surprises
for you in this first round in the WNBA postseason?
Speaker 5 (09:53):
It's a good question.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
I mean, I think Seattle hung with Las Vegas a
little bit more than I thought, and Phoenix for a while,
especially in that Game one, pushed the Minnesota Lynx big
picture surprises like not really, I had predicted a two
to two two two or sweeps and the Connecticut Indiana
series frankly, like, I'm going to get a lot of
things wrong on this postseason. In terms of predictions, it
(10:15):
kind of went exactly how I thought it was going
to be, with Connecticut winning pretty handily in Game one
and then this game too coming down to the wire
and the more experienced team playing out. So I think
we're due for some surprises, do for some excitement, but
no shockers for round one.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
For me, yeah, we'll get to the semi finals because that,
to me is going to be a lot tougher to pick.
But Jordan, how about you, Anything surprised you in this
first round?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I think kind of the opposite, and I feel like
that kind of goes with this whole playoff schedule. Is
when I look at a team with Skuyler Neka and
Jewel Lloyd and them not winning a single playoff game,
I think that kind of surprises me when you think
about who they went up against. Okay, that's not really
the surprise, but when that trade happened, I think I
(10:59):
wanted to them, you know, gel more and have that
excitement of playing with each other. And then the same
with Phoenix. You get Ca Natasha Cloud, Diana Tarassi playing
the way she was, Brittany Griner and them going, you know,
winless in the postseason. That's a little bit of a surprise.
So I think the sweeps are the way that they are,
(11:21):
and the better teams did win, but when you look
at the construction of the teams, it is a little
surprising that they didn't get a win.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
But that's just.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Kind of a hat tip to how good this league
is right now. There are players like an Asia Wilson
that are playing out of their mind, so that is
not surprising.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah, I think that the top teams are just so
good that they somehow managed to beat out even rosters
that look like they should make I mean, the Storm
all season long look like this should have been making
it work better than they did, and it just never
really clicked. And then when you saw what Gabby Williams brought,
you were like, I really would have liked to see
this team with her all season long. It just would
have been a different story. I think if they'd had
her all along, and then same with Phoenix. Some mean
(12:02):
I think the foul trouble obviously made it so cautious,
wasn't as dominant as she could have been. But also, yeah,
just on paper is very different than in games when
you got a fee or you got a Asia doing
what they're doing. It's it's tough toward the WNBA released
a statement after the Wednesday night game between the Sun
and the Fever condemning the racist, derogatory, and threatening comments
(12:24):
received by the players. This felt like it was directly
in response to the treatment faced by dj A Carrington
after the accidental contact with Caitlin Clark in Game one
of that series, but it applies to a whole lot
of players in the league. What did you make of
the timing of that statement? Let's start there. Let me
just take any bath pace. The timing of this statement
(12:46):
is atrocious.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
I think, just to put it out there to say
this statement in the what are way the last week
of September, when this has been happening since May, since April,
since what was that twenty twenty three National championship with
Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese, like the WNBA had a
whole year to prepare themselves for what was about to
(13:13):
come their way, and they did not prepare themselves. And
when I saw that statement, you know, I kind of
thought about twenty twenty and how awful twenty twenty was
for so many reasons. But I just felt like the
whole year I was going around saying how my life mattered.
The whole time, I'm just saying Black lives matter, and
(13:35):
this is why, this is why. And I feel like
it is more of the same thing in the WNBA.
We have been screaming all season long that the black players'
lives matter, and their lives are getting threatened daily on
social media, players are getting stocked. Like it has gone
to a way bigger level than just oh I don't
(13:59):
like that player because they were mean to my favorite player.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
This is a whole other level.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
And a couple weeks ago when Cathy says essentially that yeah,
we see.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
That, but that doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
What matters is the bottom line, and it was just
a slap in the face to all the players, but
especially the black players who have been screaming at the
top of their lungs like, hey, pay attention to this,
and now it is getting to a point where you
can't ignore it. But the bare minimum that you can
do is release a statement, and that's exactly what the
(14:34):
WNBA is doing.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
They're doing the bare minimum.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Now I want to see what are the actions that
are going to be taking place, because, yes, the statement
is nice, and it was in a nice spot, it
was in the color scheme of the WNBA, But what
is going to be the next step after this? And
the season's about the end, so you got a whole
off season to figure it out for the next season.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
And it wasn't just end of September. It happened to
be after the fever and that fan base that's been
responsible for a lot of it is no longer in it.
It did feel like it was specific to the email
that Dja Carrington got and posted on her Instagram story,
and that they felt like it was necessary to speak out,
but again, it's just so far behind a conversation that's
been going on all season long that you expected the
(15:15):
league's front office and even the players themselves to potentially
rally around and speak out about and it's been sort
of instead. This constant hum both below the surface and
in the conversations of media, reporters, fans, players, etc. Without
the league really taking control of it. So Ben there
were a couple of reporters, including Frankie de Lacreta, who
(15:36):
was on the show a few weeks ago to talk
about something else but also covers a lot of women's
basketball and the intersection of race and sports, and they
posted about a downright hostile and unsafe feeling environment at
the Connecticut sun Fever game, including posting a photo of
one woman wearing fake nails and a homemade T shirt
that said ban nails. This was again in reference to
Djnay Carrington, who, by the way, doesn't even have particularly
(15:59):
long it's giving racist dog whistle, it's giving misogynir and
some folks think this kind of thing is inevitable with
an increase in attendance and popularity. I think those people
can't possibly be deeply involved in the w if they
don't understand the difference between sports fans being assholes and morons,
(16:20):
and the way this has been very specifically divided by race, bisexuality,
by political party, et cetera, and how it's become this
much bigger thing. What do you say to those folks
who just kind of shrug and say, this is what
comes with a league getting more popular.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
I think I would say, listen to what Jordan just said.
How you teed up this question, Sarah, I think I
would say, listen to the players who time and again
since may have made their thoughts very clear on this.
I think agents have made their thoughts clear as front
offices coaches like this is not a secret. And I
think going back to Jordan's comments about the timing of
the league's release, and to do it in the middle
of a press conference, when players you suddenly are reacting
(16:59):
mid press conference to a statement they haven't seen, it
puts them in again in an unfair position to react
to what the league is saying. But this is not new.
This is not something new to the WNBA. Frankly, it's
heightened this year. You talk to players, they talk about
the increases in toxicity, in vitriol that they face. But
this is not new for this league of players who
you know, primarily black women, so many in the queer community.
(17:21):
I mean, this is commonplace for a lot of these
players now. Unfortunately so and I think everyone is still
waiting to see how the WNBA is going to react.
I know the Chicago Skies, a franchise, have taken a
lot of crap over the years for their lack of
investment for their facilities. But I do want to call
one partnership that they actually announced in mid August, and
(17:43):
they partner with these two companies to have an app
placed on the phones of their players that, in theory
they say uses automatic intelligence to identify negative posts on
social media feeds and block them. Like, I don't know
the success of that app and how good of a
job it is doing and limiting harassment, but to me,
that seems like, you know, a step, right, a small
step potentially that the lead could take, that other teams
(18:06):
could take, and you know, is it reactionary to what
has gone on? Would that have been something a great
partnership to have at the start of the year. Absolutely,
But that is more than what I think a lot
of other teams are doing right now. So I do
have to give Chicago credit for making that step, and
I hope stuff like that happens, you know, going forward,
because I think the unfortunate reality is these kind of comments,
(18:27):
the toxicity, it's not going away.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah, I have to say I do like the idea
of that, assuming that the AI and or someone else
is actually monitoring it, because as someone who has gotten
death threats before, the problem with dismuting or blocking is
then you're actually not seeing if they escalate. You're not
seeing if they're taking a turn where you actually have
to like think about being in danger. I've definitely had
people say I know where you work or I know
where you live and I'm coming there. So yeah, there's
(18:51):
I mean, the problem is that this exists in the
sports world and outside of it too.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Along those lines, pre Turner just on Twitter this morning.
She talked about, you know, that it's important that these
players continue to call out what is going on right
and that she is someone who has continued to advocate
for various causes, but to be fearless in what she
is saying. And she noted that you know, minimizing hate spiece,
not calling it out, cultivate spaces in which people are
enabled and continue to be enabled to allow this behavior
(19:18):
to go on. So I think, you know, I hear
exactly where you're saying, Sarah, and I think that's kind
of the balance that teams and leagues are navigating right
of how to act when you receive this hate speech.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, and Jordan, I wanted to say something Ben pointed out,
and this is true. This is a league that has
had to push back against society's feelings about queer people,
about black women, about women who don't fit this like
general esthetic of what we like to see the girl
next door, petite athlete. But it also had made for
itself over the years a space that felt unique for
(19:51):
all those people, both as fans and as players. There
were always going to be the outliers. There were always
going to be the assholes, but when you went to
a game, it felt different. Literally named this show based
on the concept of like going to a women's professional
sporting event is the good place where you get the
good game. And it was so sad to me to
see people posting about going to that game, that sun
(20:15):
Fever game, and say, I never thought this is what
a w game would be for me, with a woman
wearing these ridiculous fake nails and a dumb shit shirt
she made that said band nails and feeling like it
looked like a meme of like a Karen calling on
someone's barbecue, or it looked like a fucking Trump rally
at a W game. I know, it just feels it's
(20:36):
different this year. It's not the same.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
It's not the same.
Speaker 5 (20:39):
And I.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Had to think about, you know, I'm doing my Scandal
rewatch right now.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Out's shondaland perfect show.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
But I just got to the part where Papa Pope
is telling Olivia Pope the famous scene where you have
to be what and Olivia repeats, you have to be
twice as good for half as much. And that is
the story of being a black woman in this country,
very much so. And when I think about Djana's story,
(21:12):
she has two undergrad degrees from Stanford, Like.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
She is not just this normal woman. She is the
WNBA's most improved player.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
And still she gets reduced to someone calling her a thug.
She gets reduced to an inward slur. She gets, you know,
the long nails that aren't even long. It's just an
assumption that because she is a black player with lashes,
that her nails are long. Still that happens, and it
just hurts my heart because you're right. The W it
(21:48):
felt like this safe space. It felt like we were
in our own world for a little bit. And I
know we were calling from the rooftops for people to pay.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Attention, but not in this way like good.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
People, only the best people, like good people.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
It truly feels like I was thinking about this the
other day.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
It feels like we got hijacked, like our season, our
love for this sport got hijacked by people who don't
know anything about it, who are spewing hate.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
And it's like, what is going on?
Speaker 2 (22:19):
And I think Stephanie White said it beautifully last night
in her press conference. She said, we are making the
trolls the main story. Yes, we're not keeping the main thing,
the main thing, the main thing.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
The basketball is still really good.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Right, right right. I think it's this complicated thing of
how do you address this very obvious thing that's going on,
but also how do you take responsibility as reporters, as
media companies, as websites to not post the thing that
you know will get the clicks if you also know
that it will increase the damage, the vitriol, the threats,
Like you have to decide that it is not worth
(22:57):
the extra clicks to immediately post Kaitlin Clark punched in
the eye if that's not what happened, and you also
know the result the LA Times headline that I called
out that said, Kaitlin Clark gets black eye from player
who previously mocked her, Like, you know, what's going to
happen when you post that, and it implies intention, and
it implies correlation, which there wasn't. It happened to be
(23:19):
a player she had an incident with before, which happens
in basketball. But when you do that, you know what
you're doing. And I think that's what Stephanie spoke to beautifully,
which is it's not that we ignore that this is
a hum beneath the surface, but it is that we
stop allowing them to have control over what we talk about,
what we post, the clips we use, the headlines we write,
because that's what's making it allowed to grow and be fostered.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
I think that's also something that you know, players are
wrestling with about how to platform and if they should
you know, platform to use another word or to use
that word, like the messages they are actually receiving. Right,
We saw to Jenick Carington post the specifics of a message,
right and sure enough a few hours later call a coincidence.
Maybe it's not coincidence. The WNBA, You sure it's not Yep,
(24:03):
the WNBA releases this statement, and suddenly we're continuing to
have this conversation and more and more people are talking
about it. They do it, you know, they talk about
it on Sports Center, on morning talk shows today, on
shows like this. I've talked to players all year about,
you know, some of these social media you know, the
harassment they faced, and a lot of them speak to it,
but are also hesitant to provide specific examples. And that
is obviously their right not to provide specific examples. But
(24:26):
there is this kind of balance that I think players
are navigating of how much do they share and reveal?
Because how much does sharing and revealing specifics actually lead
to what you're talking about, Sarah, More people going into
their mentions, more people using really vitriotic, vitriolic language, more
people seeing you know, what Carrington has been called and
doing that time.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
Yeah, exactly. That It's tough, the balance that so many
are waying.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
And here we are, you know, we're twenty minutes into
talking and we haven't talked that much basketball because it's
so hard. You don't want to, you don't want to
move from this, it's so important, But you also then
find yourself saying Oh yeah, let's talk about who had
a good game too. Nancy Armer wrote a great piece,
and I want to wrap up with this before we
do move on to basketball, about how Caitlin didn't ask
(25:14):
for any of this, but she is still sort of
responsible for helping shut it down. I've been giving her
a lot of grace. I've been saying by next season,
I anticipate and expect that she should have enough experience
in this league with women of color understanding everything going
on that she should be able to speak to it
and feel comfortable speaking to it if she isn't yet.
She didn't ask for this, but I do think it'd
(25:37):
be hard for me to be in her position and
not have said something by now. Do you think she
needs to now or do you think at the start
of next season or in the off season there needs
to be a time for her to address what's going
on in her name?
Speaker 5 (25:51):
Jordan.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Such a tough question, because sometimes I've read people saying
it is her responsibility. I don't know if it's her responsibility,
but the silence is very loud.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
I will say that.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Because if it was something that you totally disagreed with,
I would run to say please so disassociate my name
with all of this hate. But it's a little bit
of like you know that quote from the Last Dance
that kind of blew up where Michael Jordan was like
Republicans VI shoes too, like, oh, is it her team?
(26:30):
Kind of saying, you know, let's just all good. Press
is good. You know, all press is good press. That's
where I would hope there's a change there because she
has these teammates. You know, a Leah Boston was kind
of the first person this season that got the most
hate when Indiana was not doing well. That is her teammate,
that is someone she says she loves to play with.
So now you are in these rooms with these players
(26:52):
who are having these visceral reactions, like an Alyssa Smith,
like people who you see every single day. So I
would hope that you would get out in front of
it the next season and say this is not what
I stand for.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Shut it all down. That's my hope. Will it happen,
I don't know, but that's my hope.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Yeah. Let's talk side my finals. The first round going
chalk wasn't a surprise to any of us, but making
picks in the next round is tough. I want to
start with Game one on Sunday, top seeded New York
Liberty versus the two time defending champs in the Las
Vegas Aces. What's the difference going to be in this one, Ben, I.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Think it is how Las Vegas handles New York's revamp
starting lineup, and that is really the big question for me.
New York moved Leoni Phoebich into the starting lineup in
the first round, and this was a five man group
of Stuart Jones, Laney, Yenescu, and Phoebich that was almost
plus twenty four per one hundred possessions during the regular season.
It was their third most used lineup and one that
was super super successful. That netrating went up to plus
(27:51):
thirty six point one, which is a crazy, crazy number
in the first round series, and it just provides New
York with so much versatility. Lanth on defense and Spiebitch
is a true six ' four. She is really strong,
like she can guard post and she can guard guards,
and that is such a weapon to have. Laney, we
know she can switch. Yanescu has improved her physicality all
year and so there really isn't a point that I
(28:13):
think Las Vegas can attack, and so I'm curious to see,
you know, what does Las Vegas do to counter or
do they play Kia Stokes. Do they play Tiffany Mitchell
who had a great first round series, but New York
might go out her on the defensive end?
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Right?
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Do they play Alicia Clark who has been such a
good defender, but Knight might not have the same offensive
ability as Hayes. So I think that's really the most
fascinating chess match for me is how does Las Vegas
counter with New York playing such a big lineup for
what I expect to be the majority of this series.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yeah, it's not a big problem to have when you
get to bring one of the greatest facilitators in history
of the game off the bench in Courtney vander Slut,
just for a switch up, it's not too bad. Jordan,
Is there a particular matchup or a particular player in
this series that you think could swing things?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
I just want to I want to focus on the stars,
like I want Brianna's Doward and.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Asia Wilson to just battle it out.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I feel like in the finals we got robbed a
little bit of that. Brianna Stewart did not play well
in the finals last season, she really didn't play well
the entire postseason, so I want her to step up big.
And then Asia Wilson just showing everybody on the biggest
stage with the brightest lights why she is a three
time MVP. So yes, there is going to be role
(29:23):
players and key players that are going to swing, have
momentum shifts and all of that. But especially this season
where we're not talking about Brianna Stewart enough, We're not
talking about Agia Wilson enough, I want them to be
able to rise to the occasion and really battle it out.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
That's what I'm so here for that.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
I want that too. I want a battle of the
back to back MVPs getting after it. Speaking of MVPs, though,
the second series features you runner up MVP and defeasta
Collier who has been lights out thirty eight points in
Game one, forty two points in game too. Her two
seed Minnesota Links have been absolutely unstoppable since the Olympic break.
(30:05):
They're taken on the number three seed Connecticut Son. What
can the Sun do to try to stop feed Jordan?
Speaker 2 (30:12):
I think when do they say prayer defense? Like just pray,
just pray that Fee is going to have an off night.
But honestly, I think NOFISA scoring the forty two points
on seventy percent from the field just shows really the
team as a whole, because the fascinating thing about the
Minnesota Links this season is their pace is slow. They
(30:35):
are one of the slowest teams in the league. But
it's because they swing the ball. They move it around.
So what the Sun can do is try to speed
that up. If they try to speed them up. We
saw Phoenix do that to them when they were coming
back in Game one after being down twenty points. You're
pressuring the ball, You're making Courtney Williams take a rush
(30:56):
midi instead of one that's in control and in rhythm.
So the Sun is the number one defense right now
and Minnesota is the number two defense right now. So
it is going to be a defensive battle all the
defensive head This is your series. But if you are
pressuring Minnesota and trying to speed them up, Fee is
going to do Fee.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
She's going to get her shots.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
But I think the rest of the team what makes
the Links so dangerous is that they can spread it
out and everybody's in double figures.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
When you look at the box at the end of
the day.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
So if you try to limit those shots, that's kind
of your best bet.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Who you got stepping up if fees in foul trouble
or isn't isn't at her best.
Speaker 6 (31:38):
Caleb McBride has had a quiet like one of the
best seasons of her career, and I think that is
a shout out to Cheryl Reeve and Nefisa Collier just
getting the best out of all these.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Players so late in their careers. But I can see
Caleb McBride just knocking down some shots, but also putting
the ball on the floor driving to the basket when
she's aggressive that way, the Links are super super scary.
And then Bridget Carleton getting some votes for most Improved
Player of the Year. She has, I mean down the
stretch in clutch time. My goodness, Bridget Carleton has been
(32:14):
on points, so I also see her having a good series.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Ben on the other side of Lissa Thomas, the only
player in WNBA Playoff history with fifteen plus points, thirteen
plus assists and five plus rebounds in a game, and
she's done it twice. Now, what do the Links have
to do to slow her down.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
I don't know what you can do. I mean, try
and get her her way, and I guess she's going
to run you over and hope to draw charge.
Speaker 5 (32:36):
Like, what are the what are.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
The solutions to slong the list of Thomas down? No
one has really found six a.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Third labor to terror to, a third labrum, a.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Sixth player to follow her on the court as well,
something like that. I mean, look, the thing about Connecticut
is they can play at so many different styles and
I think that's what is making them so dangerous right now.
Jordan mentioned the pace Connecticut, you know, bottom of the
league in terms of but yet in the first round
they actually scored the second most fast break points of
any team of the eight teams in the playoffs, behind
(33:06):
just the Indiana Fever. They moved in transition and were
sped up and did just fine. Right, It's a team
that normally struggles a little bit from three point range,
but we saw Marina Mabery get hot. And if she's
able to get hot, you know she shot under forty
percent I think just four times since like late August
or mid August, like she's been really really good and
was really great in that first round series. So if
(33:26):
she's making shots, especially from their perimeter, they can make
three pointers in a way that they haven't before. We
saw someone like Veronica Burton who normally does not score right.
I think she had only reached double figures five times
previously in her three year career. She gets ten off
the bench right and plays a key role. So different
players are stepping up, They're playing different styles. I think
that's something to be aware of, and so much of
(33:49):
that to me, it is Thomas and her ability to
play different roles.
Speaker 5 (33:52):
But also do Wanna Bonner? Right?
Speaker 3 (33:54):
You asked Jordan about slowing down to Fisa Collier. I
think to want to Bonnor. We might see her gardener
Fisa Kllier for a little bit of this series, and
you're talking about a smith army knife defender.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
From Clark to Open, you know, game one of the
first round, Tafisa Kalier. Two very different kinds of players.
But do have a player in Bonner capable of doing
both like that is such a luxury. It's why Connecticut
is so tough to be.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
You mentioned top two defenses in these teams, top five
offenses in these teams. Two great coaches and Stephanie White
and Cheryl reed We got the coach of the year
from last year, we got a three time coach of
the year. How much of this is going to come
down to strategy and who figures out how to face
the other team better? And how much is it just
the players executing the plan like we're I guess I'm
(34:40):
asking for a pick Jordan. Oh gosh, I know, so unfair.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
How do you go against Cheryl Reeve?
Speaker 2 (34:49):
I don't know, But what that said, Stephanie White has
proven been mentioned that switch Ondwana Bonner on Caitlin Clark.
He's so smart and such a strategy shift in their
defense and it changed everything, I think, especially in that
(35:09):
Game one using Dowana Bonner's length. So I'm excited to
see what Stephanie White's gonna come up with, Like that's
the fun part of this. Her clipboard is amazing, some
of those bounds plays, those last minute shots that she's
able to draw up.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
So that's going to be fun.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
But then you go with the experience of Cheryl Reeve
just being in these situations time and time again. I
always battle with that when we get to this time,
how much does experience really come into play when you
have players who have been here before who want to
get over the hump, and then you have a team
like Connecticut who's like, we have to get past this point,
(35:46):
Like it is desperation mode for our franchise. We have
to get past this point. So Cheryl Reeve is going
to do what she has constantly done, but she's also
been able to get the players to buy in to.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
This defensive system.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
And I've been playing close attention these past couple games
of when she calls her timeouts, and it is fully
when the defense is not doing what they are supposed
to do, when they are giving some backdoor cuts or
some pick and roll actions, it's a time out because
that's not the standard of defense that we play. So
I'm going to I'm sure that's going to happen again
(36:21):
with Cheryl Reeves high standard and like, hey, I got
some rings. This isn't going to get it done, and
I'm excited to see that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
I hate those in game coach interviews. I mean, I
like the idea of them, but they just think the
coach always seems like they cannot stand it and half
the time they can't even hear it. But I did
like the insight into Cheryl being like, in the last
two halves, we've given up half one hundred points in
each one, and there have been twenty six points in
the paint. I'm gonna give you every single stant about
how pissed I am about this defense. It's not show
it up. And I was like, okay, all right, she
(36:50):
ripped into them in halftime, and they're gonna come out
of here with a little bit better defense for sure.
Ben Jordan didn't answer my questions. So I'm just gonna
ask you about out. I need you to make a
pick in both series.
Speaker 5 (37:00):
Oh yeah, I noticed that too. I was going to
call her out if you did.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
You know what I was trying to do.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
I'm glad you did the job before me. I think
I'm gonna lean slightly towards Connecticut. Actually, I think they're
in my mind, a slightly more talented roster top to Bonham.
I think they can play in different ways as I
was talking about. I also think like this is a
team that is comfortable and confident going up against the
Minnesota Links. They won the season series to one this year.
(37:29):
It is a franchise in Connecticut that has actually ended
Minnesota's season the past two years, last year in the
playoffs and two years ago in the final day of
the regular season. Connecticut, you know, might not have home
court in this series, but if you remember back to
last year's postseason, they actually won Game three in Minnesota convincingly.
So I don't think the thought of going to Target Center,
you know, in front of a rockus crowd, is any
(37:50):
kind of thing that the Connecticut son are afraid of.
It's a veteran group and you know, I like Thomas
Jones Maybury like what they can all do. Bonner is
we talked about, like Minnesota, the question I've gone back
to all year is have they hit their ceiling? And
if Nafisa Collier plays it the way she did in
the first round, I think the answer is no. But
(38:12):
so much of what they do is incredible team defense.
It's incredible ball movement on offenses Jordan was talking about.
And I do wonder that if games slow down and
the competition continues to heat up, like does Connecticut just
wear on them and just make plays in little moments
that are the difference. So I actually think this one
is going to go five and I'm going to take
the Sun on the road beating Minnesota in that fifth game.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
I'll tell you what Ben's going to do his research,
and you did mention the ball movement. They actually set
a record over that series of most points assisted in
a two game playoff series, so points off assists, the
percentage was the best of all time, and you could
see that it was very hard to stop them in
the half court and very hard to stop them with
(38:56):
points off turnovers two, which I think the Sun will
do a better job of this series. Ben quick make
a pick for the first series.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
I'm gonna go to New York in five games. I
think if you are a fan of the New York Liberty,
I think you should be very afraid of how they
looked against the Las Vegas Aces in mid August without
Asia Wilson. But New York still did beat Las Vegas
in all three matchups. This year, it's a different team,
Sabrina and Escu, a different player from last year to
this year, and I do think the Phoebish switch into
the starting lineup creates a different look. I like New
(39:24):
York in five games in that one.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
All right, Jordan, back to you. We're making picks this time.
Both series.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Go Man Okay, well, let's start with Connecticut Minnesota. I
also think Connecticut that desperation is gonna kick in. Like
I said, it truly feels like, do we blow it
up after this year if they don't get it done.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
They've always been the bridesmaid, never the bride, So do
wanna playoff?
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Dowana Bonner is such a treat for all of us,
and she's able to still in year fifteen kick it
into another gear. So she has a she has a
semi finals gear, and I'm excited to see that happen.
So yes, I think Connecticut gets Minnesota in. God, I'm
not saying the games don't put me to that, but
(40:11):
I'm saying Connecticut wins. Now for the Liberty and the Aces, Gosh,
this is tough because I do feel like the Aces
are a different team from when the Liberty beat them
those other times. They are just hitting a stride right now,
and Asia Wilson is hitting a stride and Chelsea Gray
(40:33):
is back to the playoff point. God, and you can't
ever count her out for that. But Sabrina has something
different in her eye. That focus is there. She was
in the gym in the off season and me and
Cheryl Swoops talked about it on our podcast.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
She could have been up for most Improved Player, Like she's.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Added so much into her bag that it's it's tough
to be a liberty team where Stuwie is playing at
a high level and she has a quiet thirty because
Sabrina is making so much noise not only from beyond
the three point line but also in the paint and
attacking and driving. So I have New York because I
(41:16):
just feel like this is their season, all right.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
That was unfair of me, So thank you guys. I
appreciate you playing a lot in there. It's a tough one.
This is gonna be so much fun. Listen to the
Athletic Women's Basketball Podcast. Listen to Queens of the Court
Jordan alongside Cheryl Swoops, and thanks to both of you
for hopping on.
Speaker 4 (41:34):
Thank you for having us.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
We gotta pay some bills. When we come back. We
air out some weirdos for being weirdos. Welcome back, Slices.
It's been a while since we called someone out for
fucking around and finding out and it's time we're back. Baby.
Let's talk about the gambling site and I'm not giving
(41:59):
it Freeable City by naming it here. That set odds
on Chicago's Skyrookie Angel Reese's Next Boyfriend, The Superstar first
year player talked about the kind of guy she likes
on her podcast, Unapologetically Angel, saying, quote, he gotta be
tall six ' seven, six ' eight yeah NBA end quote,
And there were rumors that she was dating Detroit Piston's
power forward Jalen Duran. So the gambling site ran with it,
(42:21):
making an Angel Reese Next Boyfriend odds chart and allowing
people to bet on her dating life. Now, listen, we
love a good gab sesshon about who's dating who. See
our ongoing Aposto Bam coverage and the fact that Taylor's
with and Travis Kelsey videos are basically my whole personality.
But we draw the line at profiting off people betting
(42:42):
on someone's love life. Come on, now, we're going to
keep poking our nose in other people's business when and
only when they're appearing at each other's Keys to the
City day or performing on stage at a multi billion
dollar tour. We have standards here. Okay, we love that
you're listening, but we want you to get in the
game every day too. So here's our good gameplay of
the day. Let's counteract some of the garbage in the
(43:02):
menshies of our FAVEWNBA players and send them some love instead.
So find a couple of your favorites and send them
some positive messages please on X, Twitter, Insta, wherever, and
we love to hear from you, So hit us up
on email good game at wondermedianetwork dot com or leave
us a voicemail at eight seven two two oh four
fifty seventy. We'll take all those positive messages too, and
(43:23):
don't forget to subscribe, rate and review. It's easy watch
Twitter slash x owner Elon Musk changing the block feature
so blocked users can still see the posts of the
accounts that block them, rating a billion T out of
a billion T fail whales review. Elon has long hated
the block feature, saying it quote unquote makes no sense,
(43:45):
which is exactly what someone would say who's been blocked
thousands and thousands of times for I don't know, inciting hate,
spreading misinformation, restoring Donald Trump's Twitter threatening a cage match
with Mark Zuckerberg, selling blue check marks, making the report
function essentially useless. Making the search function essentially useless, making
the security protection essentially useless, losing users, losing billions, and
(44:06):
losing cool points for shit like posting a picture holding
a sink and writing quote let that sink in. So
not only has he confused us all by giving Twitter
two names Twitter x, twitter x, I don't know what
the fuck is, but he's also allowed right wing bots
to continue flourishing and harassing people, and now he wants
the harassment to be less checked. Allowing block users to
(44:27):
see your content just makes it that much easier for
them to continue to harass you. Sure, folks have always
been able to create another account, logging over there and
go creep on your posts, but at least that creates
some sort of barrier, some sort of work. Now, if
your stocker wants to keep up with you, Elon's made
it real easy, and I have no doubt that this
is just a step toward eliminating the block feature altogether,
(44:47):
something he's been threatening to do since he became the
app's evil overlord. Thankfully, Apple's App Store guidelines mandate that
social networks offer quote the ability to block abusive users
from the service end quote, So maybe that'll keep captain
Dick Rockets somewhat in line. Now. Am I gonna get
off Twitter or whatever the fuck it's called. I'm not
because that would be letting him win, and because I'm addicted,
(45:10):
So I'll be on it till they pry my phone
out of my cold dead hands. What can I say,
I'm weak. Now it's your turn, rate and review. Thanks
for listening, have a great weekend and see you next week.
Good game, Jordan, Good game, Ben, Thank you again, Lady
with the band Nail's shirt. No one wants you here
in case that wasn't clear. Good Game with Sarah Spain
(45:33):
is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep
Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzie
and Misha Jones. Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz,
Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rudder,
Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and Lindsay Cradowell. Production assistants from
(45:56):
Lucy Jones and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain st
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're starting
the show with a huge you to the lady with
the band Nails shirt. At Wednesday nights, connecticuts on Indiana
Fever Game, Go Kick Rocks Lady. On today's show, we
got another group chat. We're talking all things WNBA with
Jordan Robinson, co host of the Queens of the Court podcast,
and Ben Pickman, women's basketball writer for The Athletic. Plus
(00:21):
Captain Dick Rocket is at it again. It's all coming
up right after this. Welcome back my little slices. Happy Friday.
Here's what you need to know today. Round one of
the WNBA Playoffs is complete and we're looking ahead to
(00:42):
the semi finals that start on Sunday. First up, the
New York Liberty host in the Las Vegas Aces at
three pm Eastern on ABC. It's a twenty twenty three
finals rematch and it's sure to be a hell of
a five game series. Who will prevail in the Battle
of the last two WNBA MVPs to Wilson or Brianna Stewart,
Who will have the upper hand point guard Chelsea Gray
(01:04):
or sabrinian Escu. Clear your schedule This one is going
to be fun. Then, at eight thirty pm Eastern on ESPN,
the Connecticut Sun played their first road game of these
playoffs at the Minnesota Links. Will Nafisa Collier serve up
another forty Burger can Alyssa Thomas at another triple double
tour all time tally? Only time will tell. This should
be a good one. Some more WNBA news, a w
(01:27):
team might be in Philadelphia's future. Per the Philadelphia Inquirer,
the seventy six Ers have plans to bid for a team,
a detail that was uncovered during a public city meeting
about the seventy six ers new arena proposal on page
sixty six of an eighty page PowerPoint presentation. In a
statement to the Inquirer, a seventy six Ers team spokesperson said, quote,
(01:47):
we share in Mayor Parker's desire to bring a WNBA
franchise to Philadelphia and have been engaged with the league
on the process. Our goal is for our new arena
to service home to both the seventy six Ers and
a WNBA franchise. End quote. We'll link to the Inquirer's
full story in our show Notes to Soccer. There's one
game in the NWSL Tonight, angel City FC host in
(02:07):
the Washington Spirit at ten pm Eastern on Prime Video.
Angel City is still sitting in the tenth spot in
the standings with twenty two points, three points behind number
eight Racing Louisville, and they'll try to close that gap
with a win tonight. There are six more games this
weekend as well, including a three to four matchup between
Gotham FC and Casey Current on Saturday, and a five
to six matchup between NC Courage and Chicago Red Stars
(02:30):
on Sunday. We'll link to that full schedule in our
show notes. Some exciting news for the NWSL as well.
The average team now worth one hundred and four million dollars,
up fifty seven percent from a year ago. According to Sportico,
angel CITYFC, a club that joined the NWSL in twenty
twenty two, leads the whole league with a two hundred
and fifty million dollar valuation on its own. This comes
(02:52):
in a year where the league is set records for attendance, revenue,
and TV ratings. What's that age old adage we keep
coming back to in women's sports, If you build it
and invest in it, they will come to college volleyball,
the non conference portion of the schedule has come to
a close. So far, this season has been full of
surprises and upsets. Pitt and Nebraska are currently holding court
(03:14):
as the best teams in the land, and there's a
slew of rank sides tipping off conference action over the weekend.
We'll link to the full schedule in our show notes.
The top three teams in the nation hit the court tonight. First,
it's number three Stanford versus Notre Dame at six thirty Eastern,
Then the aforementioned Pittsburgh Panthers against Clemson at seven eastern,
followed by number two Nebraska playing UCLA at eight eastern
(03:35):
to the ice. The college hockey season enters its second
weekend with a big couple matchups. Number three Minnesota opens
its season with back to back games on the road
against number nine Connecticut tonight and Saturday, and number two
Wisconsin opens its season at home with Lyndenwood visiting for
a doubleheader. In college soccer, number three Duke takes the
pitch tonight against Southern Methodist and number four UNC will
(03:55):
face number nineteen Virginia, both at seven pm Eastern. A
majority of the top tenor and Action on Sunday too.
Will link to the entire weekend schedule in our show notes.
We got to take a quick break. When we come back,
time for another group chat with Jordan Robinson and Ben Pickman.
(04:16):
It's time for group chat where we take the tea
from the text to the airwaves. Joining us today, she's
co host of the Queens of the Court podcast, host
of the ESPN Plus show this Week in wcc Basketball,
and hosts for the Women's Sports Network. She's co authoring
a book on the history of women's hoops and you
don't want to mess with her and her hubby in
a co ed hoops league. It's Jordan Robinson. What's up, Jordan?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Hi, I'm so glad that last part got in there.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yes, I've seen the picks. I've seen proof. Joining her,
he's a staff writer at The Athletic, cover in the
WNBA and women's college basketball, one of the hosts of
the Athletic Women's Basketball Podcast. He's a Wisconsin alum, an
elite camp counselor, and a marathon runner. It's Ben Pickman.
What's up, Ben?
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Wow, that is a great introduction, but I'm still dwelling
on Jordan's introduction because that just blew me away.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, Judy, about your championship, I would love to so
me and my husband wearing a co ed league and
we won the championship and it was amazing because I'm
a guard, he's a post player, so my assists were up.
He was dominating inside, I was shooting from the outside.
Just a scary tandem to go up against.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yah sounds like a perfect perfect match in marriage and
in hoops. Speaking of hoops, we are knee deep in
the WNBA playoffs. There is so much to get to.
I want to start with reflecting on the first round.
I got called the casual on Twitter by a number
of people for complaining about the best of three format
in the first round. But I know I am not
alone in wanting more to Rossi and the Mercury, more Jewel,
(05:50):
Lloyd and the Store, more Kaitlin Clark and the Fever.
That was probably enough of the Liberty Dream series. But
you get my point. Are you with me? Jordan? Is
it time to to best of five in the first round?
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
I think we've made steps forward because we've come from
the single elimination first round, which.
Speaker 5 (06:10):
Was just bonker.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
I think we could all agree on that that was
really hard because yes, it gave kind of that March
badness atmosphere, but it didn't allow for a team to
have a bad game. Like if somebody was just having
a bad game, then they can come back and kind of,
you know, have a good game the next time.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
So that's what the best of three series did.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Now it's time to expand from that, and I hope
that we can see that there was still some really
high basketball being played and we want to continue to
watch that. And Sarah, I think you made this point
of like giving the other teams a chance to make
some money off of the postseason run. I think that's smart,
(06:51):
and it also I think the conversations around making the
regular season longer, I don't think we want that. Look,
I love the Sparks. We don't want to see the
Sparks way anymore games Like put the bad teams out
of their misery and let's give more games to the
good teams of the postseason.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I agree with that. I think I could be convinced
on an even longer regular season, but we're just year
two of the forty game season. I'm fine with a
couple more years of that. While it shakes out, and
then figuring out once we add another team next year,
two more teams in twenty twenty six, if we want
to have a few more opportunities for teams to face
each other, then Ben She mentioned that I talked about
the financial aspect on Twitter and listen. I was only
part of a team ownership group for a couple of years,
(07:30):
but in those meetings you do talk about how important
it is to make the postseason so that you can
potentially host a playoff game. Not only for the financials
and the money it brings in with merchant ticket sales
and concessions and all that, but the brand affinity that
is driven by success by having a team that gets
to that point and that you can get fans to
show up for that playoff atmosphere brings them back the
(07:52):
next year more often because it just feels different than
a regular season game. I think the WNBA financials are
so different now that not only do they not to
save money on avoiding the travel and the things that
come with a longer series, but also they can afford
to make more money by capitalizing on teams getting a
chance to host at least one game. So are you
good with expansion to ben Are you gonna call me
(08:12):
a casual who just got here who only wants to
see Kaitlin Clark? And if she had won, I would
have been saying this no.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
And I'm all for a playoff reformatting the postseason, and
I do think it is something that is going to
happen over the next couple of years. I think there
was kind of a general openness among players and coaches
I talked to heading into the postseason that you know,
as the WNBA expands to fourteen teams and sixteen teams,
if the playoff format is going to continue to be
reevaluated right to the regular season format. I mean, I
(08:38):
think the footprint of the WNBA is only going to
get longer because it has to, as you know, team thirteen, fourteen, fifteen,
and eventually sixteen comes in, and so it makes sense
that you know, the footprint in the fall continues to go,
you know, late October into November, potentially you know, making
the arena dates work with the NBA too. But you know,
it wouldn't shock me if the playoff format changed as well,
and maybe you know it's three out of five, maybe
(08:59):
it's actually going back to conferences if we get eight
to eight, you know, evenly in a couple of years.
I do think one other thing to consider. Brianna Stort
made this point to me in a conversation we had
leading into the playoffs, is in the short term at
least do they re evaluate the two to one format, right,
Because one of the big reasons it was put in
was because of the.
Speaker 5 (09:16):
Current charter plans, right and how right?
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Like everyone's taking commercial flights and the league had then
moved to charters for you know, the postseason before now
putting in the full charter plan. But in theory, with
charter flights being the norm even next year, like, couldn't
you go one to one one and allow what you're
talking about, Sarah, that everyone gets a chance to host
a game. Now we know the WNBA post season schedule
really tight, really condensed. Those games are on top of
(09:41):
each other, So maybe logistically that's tough, but that could
also be something in the short term, even before a
three out of five change goes into place.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, that's a great point, Ben, Were there any surprises
for you in this first round in the WNBA postseason?
Speaker 5 (09:53):
It's a good question.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
I mean, I think Seattle hung with Las Vegas a
little bit more than I thought, and Phoenix for a while,
especially in that Game one, pushed the Minnesota Lynx big
picture surprises like not really, I had predicted a two
to two two two or sweeps and the Connecticut Indiana
series frankly, like, I'm going to get a lot of
things wrong on this postseason. In terms of predictions, it
(10:15):
kind of went exactly how I thought it was going
to be, with Connecticut winning pretty handily in Game one
and then this game too coming down to the wire
and the more experienced team playing out. So I think
we're due for some surprises, do for some excitement, but
no shockers for round one.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
For me, yeah, we'll get to the semi finals because that,
to me is going to be a lot tougher to pick.
But Jordan, how about you, Anything surprised you in this
first round?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I think kind of the opposite, and I feel like
that kind of goes with this whole playoff schedule. Is
when I look at a team with Skuyler Neka and
Jewel Lloyd and them not winning a single playoff game,
I think that kind of surprises me when you think
about who they went up against. Okay, that's not really
the surprise, but when that trade happened, I think I
(10:59):
wanted to them, you know, gel more and have that
excitement of playing with each other. And then the same
with Phoenix. You get Ca Natasha Cloud, Diana Tarassi playing
the way she was, Brittany Griner and them going, you know,
winless in the postseason. That's a little bit of a surprise.
So I think the sweeps are the way that they are,
(11:21):
and the better teams did win, but when you look
at the construction of the teams, it is a little
surprising that they didn't get a win.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
But that's just.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Kind of a hat tip to how good this league
is right now. There are players like an Asia Wilson
that are playing out of their mind, so that is
not surprising.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah, I think that the top teams are just so
good that they somehow managed to beat out even rosters
that look like they should make I mean, the Storm
all season long look like this should have been making
it work better than they did, and it just never
really clicked. And then when you saw what Gabby Williams brought,
you were like, I really would have liked to see
this team with her all season long. It just would
have been a different story. I think if they'd had
her all along, and then same with Phoenix. Some mean
(12:02):
I think the foul trouble obviously made it so cautious,
wasn't as dominant as she could have been. But also, yeah,
just on paper is very different than in games when
you got a fee or you got a Asia doing
what they're doing. It's it's tough toward the WNBA released
a statement after the Wednesday night game between the Sun
and the Fever condemning the racist, derogatory, and threatening comments
(12:24):
received by the players. This felt like it was directly
in response to the treatment faced by dj A Carrington
after the accidental contact with Caitlin Clark in Game one
of that series, but it applies to a whole lot
of players in the league. What did you make of
the timing of that statement? Let's start there. Let me
just take any bath pace. The timing of this statement
(12:46):
is atrocious.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
I think, just to put it out there to say
this statement in the what are way the last week
of September, when this has been happening since May, since April,
since what was that twenty twenty three National championship with
Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese, like the WNBA had a
whole year to prepare themselves for what was about to
(13:13):
come their way, and they did not prepare themselves. And
when I saw that statement, you know, I kind of
thought about twenty twenty and how awful twenty twenty was
for so many reasons. But I just felt like the
whole year I was going around saying how my life mattered.
The whole time, I'm just saying Black lives matter, and
(13:35):
this is why, this is why. And I feel like
it is more of the same thing in the WNBA.
We have been screaming all season long that the black players'
lives matter, and their lives are getting threatened daily on
social media, players are getting stocked. Like it has gone
to a way bigger level than just oh I don't
(13:59):
like that player because they were mean to my favorite player.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
This is a whole other level.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
And a couple weeks ago when Cathy says essentially that yeah,
we see.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
That, but that doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
What matters is the bottom line, and it was just
a slap in the face to all the players, but
especially the black players who have been screaming at the
top of their lungs like, hey, pay attention to this,
and now it is getting to a point where you
can't ignore it. But the bare minimum that you can
do is release a statement, and that's exactly what the
(14:34):
WNBA is doing.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
They're doing the bare minimum.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Now I want to see what are the actions that
are going to be taking place, because, yes, the statement
is nice, and it was in a nice spot, it
was in the color scheme of the WNBA, But what
is going to be the next step after this? And
the season's about the end, so you got a whole
off season to figure it out for the next season.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
And it wasn't just end of September. It happened to
be after the fever and that fan base that's been
responsible for a lot of it is no longer in it.
It did feel like it was specific to the email
that Dja Carrington got and posted on her Instagram story,
and that they felt like it was necessary to speak out,
but again, it's just so far behind a conversation that's
been going on all season long that you expected the
(15:15):
league's front office and even the players themselves to potentially
rally around and speak out about and it's been sort
of instead. This constant hum both below the surface and
in the conversations of media, reporters, fans, players, etc. Without
the league really taking control of it. So Ben there
were a couple of reporters, including Frankie de Lacreta, who
(15:36):
was on the show a few weeks ago to talk
about something else but also covers a lot of women's
basketball and the intersection of race and sports, and they
posted about a downright hostile and unsafe feeling environment at
the Connecticut sun Fever game, including posting a photo of
one woman wearing fake nails and a homemade T shirt
that said ban nails. This was again in reference to
Djnay Carrington, who, by the way, doesn't even have particularly
(15:59):
long it's giving racist dog whistle, it's giving misogynir and
some folks think this kind of thing is inevitable with
an increase in attendance and popularity. I think those people
can't possibly be deeply involved in the w if they
don't understand the difference between sports fans being assholes and morons,
(16:20):
and the way this has been very specifically divided by race, bisexuality,
by political party, et cetera, and how it's become this
much bigger thing. What do you say to those folks
who just kind of shrug and say, this is what
comes with a league getting more popular.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
I think I would say, listen to what Jordan just said.
How you teed up this question, Sarah, I think I
would say, listen to the players who time and again
since may have made their thoughts very clear on this.
I think agents have made their thoughts clear as front
offices coaches like this is not a secret. And I
think going back to Jordan's comments about the timing of
the league's release, and to do it in the middle
of a press conference, when players you suddenly are reacting
(16:59):
mid press conference to a statement they haven't seen, it
puts them in again in an unfair position to react
to what the league is saying. But this is not new.
This is not something new to the WNBA. Frankly, it's
heightened this year. You talk to players, they talk about
the increases in toxicity, in vitriol that they face. But
this is not new for this league of players who
you know, primarily black women, so many in the queer community.
(17:21):
I mean, this is commonplace for a lot of these
players now. Unfortunately so and I think everyone is still
waiting to see how the WNBA is going to react.
I know the Chicago Skies, a franchise, have taken a
lot of crap over the years for their lack of
investment for their facilities. But I do want to call
one partnership that they actually announced in mid August, and
(17:43):
they partner with these two companies to have an app
placed on the phones of their players that, in theory
they say uses automatic intelligence to identify negative posts on
social media feeds and block them. Like, I don't know
the success of that app and how good of a
job it is doing and limiting harassment, but to me,
that seems like, you know, a step, right, a small
step potentially that the lead could take, that other teams
(18:06):
could take, and you know, is it reactionary to what
has gone on? Would that have been something a great
partnership to have at the start of the year. Absolutely,
But that is more than what I think a lot
of other teams are doing right now. So I do
have to give Chicago credit for making that step, and
I hope stuff like that happens, you know, going forward,
because I think the unfortunate reality is these kind of comments,
(18:27):
the toxicity, it's not going away.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah, I have to say I do like the idea
of that, assuming that the AI and or someone else
is actually monitoring it, because as someone who has gotten
death threats before, the problem with dismuting or blocking is
then you're actually not seeing if they escalate. You're not
seeing if they're taking a turn where you actually have
to like think about being in danger. I've definitely had
people say I know where you work or I know
where you live and I'm coming there. So yeah, there's
(18:51):
I mean, the problem is that this exists in the
sports world and outside of it too.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Along those lines, pre Turner just on Twitter this morning.
She talked about, you know, that it's important that these
players continue to call out what is going on right
and that she is someone who has continued to advocate
for various causes, but to be fearless in what she
is saying. And she noted that you know, minimizing hate spiece,
not calling it out, cultivate spaces in which people are
enabled and continue to be enabled to allow this behavior
(19:18):
to go on. So I think, you know, I hear
exactly where you're saying, Sarah, and I think that's kind
of the balance that teams and leagues are navigating right
of how to act when you receive this hate speech.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, and Jordan, I wanted to say something Ben pointed out,
and this is true. This is a league that has
had to push back against society's feelings about queer people,
about black women, about women who don't fit this like
general esthetic of what we like to see the girl
next door, petite athlete. But it also had made for
itself over the years a space that felt unique for
(19:51):
all those people, both as fans and as players. There
were always going to be the outliers. There were always
going to be the assholes, but when you went to
a game, it felt different. Literally named this show based
on the concept of like going to a women's professional
sporting event is the good place where you get the
good game. And it was so sad to me to
see people posting about going to that game, that sun
(20:15):
Fever game, and say, I never thought this is what
a w game would be for me, with a woman
wearing these ridiculous fake nails and a dumb shit shirt
she made that said band nails and feeling like it
looked like a meme of like a Karen calling on
someone's barbecue, or it looked like a fucking Trump rally
at a W game. I know, it just feels it's
(20:36):
different this year. It's not the same.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
It's not the same.
Speaker 5 (20:39):
And I.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Had to think about, you know, I'm doing my Scandal
rewatch right now.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Out's shondaland perfect show.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
But I just got to the part where Papa Pope
is telling Olivia Pope the famous scene where you have
to be what and Olivia repeats, you have to be
twice as good for half as much. And that is
the story of being a black woman in this country,
very much so. And when I think about Djana's story,
(21:12):
she has two undergrad degrees from Stanford, Like.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
She is not just this normal woman. She is the
WNBA's most improved player.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
And still she gets reduced to someone calling her a thug.
She gets reduced to an inward slur. She gets, you know,
the long nails that aren't even long. It's just an
assumption that because she is a black player with lashes,
that her nails are long. Still that happens, and it
just hurts my heart because you're right. The W it
(21:48):
felt like this safe space. It felt like we were
in our own world for a little bit. And I
know we were calling from the rooftops for people to pay.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Attention, but not in this way like good.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
People, only the best people, like good people.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
It truly feels like I was thinking about this the
other day.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
It feels like we got hijacked, like our season, our
love for this sport got hijacked by people who don't
know anything about it, who are spewing hate.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
And it's like, what is going on?
Speaker 2 (22:19):
And I think Stephanie White said it beautifully last night
in her press conference. She said, we are making the
trolls the main story. Yes, we're not keeping the main thing,
the main thing, the main thing.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
The basketball is still really good.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Right, right right. I think it's this complicated thing of
how do you address this very obvious thing that's going on,
but also how do you take responsibility as reporters, as
media companies, as websites to not post the thing that
you know will get the clicks if you also know
that it will increase the damage, the vitriol, the threats,
Like you have to decide that it is not worth
(22:57):
the extra clicks to immediately post Kaitlin Clark punched in
the eye if that's not what happened, and you also
know the result the LA Times headline that I called
out that said, Kaitlin Clark gets black eye from player
who previously mocked her, Like, you know, what's going to
happen when you post that, and it implies intention, and
it implies correlation, which there wasn't. It happened to be
(23:19):
a player she had an incident with before, which happens
in basketball. But when you do that, you know what
you're doing. And I think that's what Stephanie spoke to beautifully,
which is it's not that we ignore that this is
a hum beneath the surface, but it is that we
stop allowing them to have control over what we talk about,
what we post, the clips we use, the headlines we write,
because that's what's making it allowed to grow and be fostered.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
I think that's also something that you know, players are
wrestling with about how to platform and if they should
you know, platform to use another word or to use
that word, like the messages they are actually receiving. Right,
We saw to Jenick Carington post the specifics of a message,
right and sure enough a few hours later call a coincidence.
Maybe it's not coincidence. The WNBA, You sure it's not Yep,
(24:03):
the WNBA releases this statement, and suddenly we're continuing to
have this conversation and more and more people are talking
about it. They do it, you know, they talk about
it on Sports Center, on morning talk shows today, on
shows like this. I've talked to players all year about,
you know, some of these social media you know, the
harassment they faced, and a lot of them speak to it,
but are also hesitant to provide specific examples. And that
is obviously their right not to provide specific examples. But
(24:26):
there is this kind of balance that I think players
are navigating of how much do they share and reveal?
Because how much does sharing and revealing specifics actually lead
to what you're talking about, Sarah, More people going into
their mentions, more people using really vitriotic, vitriolic language, more
people seeing you know, what Carrington has been called and
doing that time.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
Yeah, exactly. That It's tough, the balance that so many
are waying.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
And here we are, you know, we're twenty minutes into
talking and we haven't talked that much basketball because it's
so hard. You don't want to, you don't want to
move from this, it's so important, But you also then
find yourself saying Oh yeah, let's talk about who had
a good game too. Nancy Armer wrote a great piece,
and I want to wrap up with this before we
do move on to basketball, about how Caitlin didn't ask
(25:14):
for any of this, but she is still sort of
responsible for helping shut it down. I've been giving her
a lot of grace. I've been saying by next season,
I anticipate and expect that she should have enough experience
in this league with women of color understanding everything going
on that she should be able to speak to it
and feel comfortable speaking to it if she isn't yet.
She didn't ask for this, but I do think it'd
(25:37):
be hard for me to be in her position and
not have said something by now. Do you think she
needs to now or do you think at the start
of next season or in the off season there needs
to be a time for her to address what's going
on in her name?
Speaker 5 (25:51):
Jordan.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Such a tough question, because sometimes I've read people saying
it is her responsibility. I don't know if it's her responsibility,
but the silence is very loud.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
I will say that.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Because if it was something that you totally disagreed with,
I would run to say please so disassociate my name
with all of this hate. But it's a little bit
of like you know that quote from the Last Dance
that kind of blew up where Michael Jordan was like
Republicans VI shoes too, like, oh, is it her team?
(26:30):
Kind of saying, you know, let's just all good. Press
is good. You know, all press is good press. That's
where I would hope there's a change there because she
has these teammates. You know, a Leah Boston was kind
of the first person this season that got the most
hate when Indiana was not doing well. That is her teammate,
that is someone she says she loves to play with.
So now you are in these rooms with these players
(26:52):
who are having these visceral reactions, like an Alyssa Smith,
like people who you see every single day. So I
would hope that you would get out in front of
it the next season and say this is not what
I stand for.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Shut it all down. That's my hope. Will it happen,
I don't know, but that's my hope.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Yeah. Let's talk side my finals. The first round going
chalk wasn't a surprise to any of us, but making
picks in the next round is tough. I want to
start with Game one on Sunday, top seeded New York
Liberty versus the two time defending champs in the Las
Vegas Aces. What's the difference going to be in this one, Ben, I.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Think it is how Las Vegas handles New York's revamp
starting lineup, and that is really the big question for me.
New York moved Leoni Phoebich into the starting lineup in
the first round, and this was a five man group
of Stuart Jones, Laney, Yenescu, and Phoebich that was almost
plus twenty four per one hundred possessions during the regular season.
It was their third most used lineup and one that
was super super successful. That netrating went up to plus
(27:51):
thirty six point one, which is a crazy, crazy number
in the first round series, and it just provides New
York with so much versatility. Lanth on defense and Spiebitch
is a true six ' four. She is really strong,
like she can guard post and she can guard guards,
and that is such a weapon to have. Laney, we
know she can switch. Yanescu has improved her physicality all
year and so there really isn't a point that I
(28:13):
think Las Vegas can attack, and so I'm curious to see,
you know, what does Las Vegas do to counter or
do they play Kia Stokes. Do they play Tiffany Mitchell
who had a great first round series, but New York
might go out her on the defensive end?
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Right?
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Do they play Alicia Clark who has been such a
good defender, but Knight might not have the same offensive
ability as Hayes. So I think that's really the most
fascinating chess match for me is how does Las Vegas
counter with New York playing such a big lineup for
what I expect to be the majority of this series.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yeah, it's not a big problem to have when you
get to bring one of the greatest facilitators in history
of the game off the bench in Courtney vander Slut,
just for a switch up, it's not too bad. Jordan,
Is there a particular matchup or a particular player in
this series that you think could swing things?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
I just want to I want to focus on the stars,
like I want Brianna's Doward and.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Asia Wilson to just battle it out.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I feel like in the finals we got robbed a
little bit of that. Brianna Stewart did not play well
in the finals last season, she really didn't play well
the entire postseason, so I want her to step up big.
And then Asia Wilson just showing everybody on the biggest
stage with the brightest lights why she is a three
time MVP. So yes, there is going to be role
(29:23):
players and key players that are going to swing, have
momentum shifts and all of that. But especially this season
where we're not talking about Brianna Stewart enough, We're not
talking about Agia Wilson enough, I want them to be
able to rise to the occasion and really battle it out.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
That's what I'm so here for that.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
I want that too. I want a battle of the
back to back MVPs getting after it. Speaking of MVPs, though,
the second series features you runner up MVP and defeasta
Collier who has been lights out thirty eight points in
Game one, forty two points in game too. Her two
seed Minnesota Links have been absolutely unstoppable since the Olympic break.
(30:05):
They're taken on the number three seed Connecticut Son. What
can the Sun do to try to stop feed Jordan?
Speaker 2 (30:12):
I think when do they say prayer defense? Like just pray,
just pray that Fee is going to have an off night.
But honestly, I think NOFISA scoring the forty two points
on seventy percent from the field just shows really the
team as a whole, because the fascinating thing about the
Minnesota Links this season is their pace is slow. They
(30:35):
are one of the slowest teams in the league. But
it's because they swing the ball. They move it around.
So what the Sun can do is try to speed
that up. If they try to speed them up. We
saw Phoenix do that to them when they were coming
back in Game one after being down twenty points. You're
pressuring the ball, You're making Courtney Williams take a rush
(30:56):
midi instead of one that's in control and in rhythm.
So the Sun is the number one defense right now
and Minnesota is the number two defense right now. So
it is going to be a defensive battle all the
defensive head This is your series. But if you are
pressuring Minnesota and trying to speed them up, Fee is
going to do Fee.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
She's going to get her shots.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
But I think the rest of the team what makes
the Links so dangerous is that they can spread it
out and everybody's in double figures.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
When you look at the box at the end of
the day.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
So if you try to limit those shots, that's kind
of your best bet.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Who you got stepping up if fees in foul trouble
or isn't isn't at her best.
Speaker 6 (31:38):
Caleb McBride has had a quiet like one of the
best seasons of her career, and I think that is
a shout out to Cheryl Reeve and Nefisa Collier just
getting the best out of all these.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Players so late in their careers. But I can see
Caleb McBride just knocking down some shots, but also putting
the ball on the floor driving to the basket when
she's aggressive that way, the Links are super super scary.
And then Bridget Carleton getting some votes for most Improved
Player of the Year. She has, I mean down the
stretch in clutch time. My goodness, Bridget Carleton has been
(32:14):
on points, so I also see her having a good series.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Ben on the other side of Lissa Thomas, the only
player in WNBA Playoff history with fifteen plus points, thirteen
plus assists and five plus rebounds in a game, and
she's done it twice. Now, what do the Links have
to do to slow her down.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
I don't know what you can do. I mean, try
and get her her way, and I guess she's going
to run you over and hope to draw charge.
Speaker 5 (32:36):
Like, what are the what are.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
The solutions to slong the list of Thomas down? No
one has really found six a.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Third labor to terror to, a third labrum, a.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Sixth player to follow her on the court as well,
something like that. I mean, look, the thing about Connecticut
is they can play at so many different styles and
I think that's what is making them so dangerous right now.
Jordan mentioned the pace Connecticut, you know, bottom of the
league in terms of but yet in the first round
they actually scored the second most fast break points of
any team of the eight teams in the playoffs, behind
(33:06):
just the Indiana Fever. They moved in transition and were
sped up and did just fine. Right, It's a team
that normally struggles a little bit from three point range,
but we saw Marina Mabery get hot. And if she's
able to get hot, you know she shot under forty
percent I think just four times since like late August
or mid August, like she's been really really good and
was really great in that first round series. So if
(33:26):
she's making shots, especially from their perimeter, they can make
three pointers in a way that they haven't before. We
saw someone like Veronica Burton who normally does not score right.
I think she had only reached double figures five times
previously in her three year career. She gets ten off
the bench right and plays a key role. So different
players are stepping up, They're playing different styles. I think
that's something to be aware of, and so much of
(33:49):
that to me, it is Thomas and her ability to
play different roles.
Speaker 5 (33:52):
But also do Wanna Bonner? Right?
Speaker 3 (33:54):
You asked Jordan about slowing down to Fisa Collier. I
think to want to Bonnor. We might see her gardener
Fisa Kllier for a little bit of this series, and
you're talking about a smith army knife defender.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
From Clark to Open, you know, game one of the
first round, Tafisa Kalier. Two very different kinds of players.
But do have a player in Bonner capable of doing
both like that is such a luxury. It's why Connecticut
is so tough to be.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
You mentioned top two defenses in these teams, top five
offenses in these teams. Two great coaches and Stephanie White
and Cheryl reed We got the coach of the year
from last year, we got a three time coach of
the year. How much of this is going to come
down to strategy and who figures out how to face
the other team better? And how much is it just
the players executing the plan like we're I guess I'm
(34:40):
asking for a pick Jordan. Oh gosh, I know, so unfair.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
How do you go against Cheryl Reeve?
Speaker 2 (34:49):
I don't know, But what that said, Stephanie White has
proven been mentioned that switch Ondwana Bonner on Caitlin Clark.
He's so smart and such a strategy shift in their
defense and it changed everything, I think, especially in that
(35:09):
Game one using Dowana Bonner's length. So I'm excited to
see what Stephanie White's gonna come up with, Like that's
the fun part of this. Her clipboard is amazing, some
of those bounds plays, those last minute shots that she's
able to draw up.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
So that's going to be fun.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
But then you go with the experience of Cheryl Reeve
just being in these situations time and time again. I
always battle with that when we get to this time,
how much does experience really come into play when you
have players who have been here before who want to
get over the hump, and then you have a team
like Connecticut who's like, we have to get past this point,
(35:46):
Like it is desperation mode for our franchise. We have
to get past this point. So Cheryl Reeve is going
to do what she has constantly done, but she's also
been able to get the players to buy in to.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
This defensive system.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
And I've been playing close attention these past couple games
of when she calls her timeouts, and it is fully
when the defense is not doing what they are supposed
to do, when they are giving some backdoor cuts or
some pick and roll actions, it's a time out because
that's not the standard of defense that we play. So
I'm going to I'm sure that's going to happen again
(36:21):
with Cheryl Reeves high standard and like, hey, I got
some rings. This isn't going to get it done, and
I'm excited to see that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
I hate those in game coach interviews. I mean, I
like the idea of them, but they just think the
coach always seems like they cannot stand it and half
the time they can't even hear it. But I did
like the insight into Cheryl being like, in the last
two halves, we've given up half one hundred points in
each one, and there have been twenty six points in
the paint. I'm gonna give you every single stant about
how pissed I am about this defense. It's not show
it up. And I was like, okay, all right, she
(36:50):
ripped into them in halftime, and they're gonna come out
of here with a little bit better defense for sure.
Ben Jordan didn't answer my questions. So I'm just gonna
ask you about out. I need you to make a
pick in both series.
Speaker 5 (37:00):
Oh yeah, I noticed that too. I was going to
call her out if you did.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
You know what I was trying to do.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
I'm glad you did the job before me. I think
I'm gonna lean slightly towards Connecticut. Actually, I think they're
in my mind, a slightly more talented roster top to Bonham.
I think they can play in different ways as I
was talking about. I also think like this is a
team that is comfortable and confident going up against the
Minnesota Links. They won the season series to one this year.
(37:29):
It is a franchise in Connecticut that has actually ended
Minnesota's season the past two years, last year in the
playoffs and two years ago in the final day of
the regular season. Connecticut, you know, might not have home
court in this series, but if you remember back to
last year's postseason, they actually won Game three in Minnesota convincingly.
So I don't think the thought of going to Target Center,
you know, in front of a rockus crowd, is any
(37:50):
kind of thing that the Connecticut son are afraid of.
It's a veteran group and you know, I like Thomas
Jones Maybury like what they can all do. Bonner is
we talked about, like Minnesota, the question I've gone back
to all year is have they hit their ceiling? And
if Nafisa Collier plays it the way she did in
the first round, I think the answer is no. But
(38:12):
so much of what they do is incredible team defense.
It's incredible ball movement on offenses Jordan was talking about.
And I do wonder that if games slow down and
the competition continues to heat up, like does Connecticut just
wear on them and just make plays in little moments
that are the difference. So I actually think this one
is going to go five and I'm going to take
the Sun on the road beating Minnesota in that fifth game.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
I'll tell you what Ben's going to do his research,
and you did mention the ball movement. They actually set
a record over that series of most points assisted in
a two game playoff series, so points off assists, the
percentage was the best of all time, and you could
see that it was very hard to stop them in
the half court and very hard to stop them with
(38:56):
points off turnovers two, which I think the Sun will
do a better job of this series. Ben quick make
a pick for the first series.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
I'm gonna go to New York in five games. I
think if you are a fan of the New York Liberty,
I think you should be very afraid of how they
looked against the Las Vegas Aces in mid August without
Asia Wilson. But New York still did beat Las Vegas
in all three matchups. This year, it's a different team,
Sabrina and Escu, a different player from last year to
this year, and I do think the Phoebish switch into
the starting lineup creates a different look. I like New
(39:24):
York in five games in that one.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
All right, Jordan, back to you. We're making picks this time.
Both series.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Go Man Okay, well, let's start with Connecticut Minnesota. I
also think Connecticut that desperation is gonna kick in. Like
I said, it truly feels like, do we blow it
up after this year if they don't get it done.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
They've always been the bridesmaid, never the bride, So do
wanna playoff?
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Dowana Bonner is such a treat for all of us,
and she's able to still in year fifteen kick it
into another gear. So she has a she has a
semi finals gear, and I'm excited to see that happen.
So yes, I think Connecticut gets Minnesota in. God, I'm
not saying the games don't put me to that, but
(40:11):
I'm saying Connecticut wins. Now for the Liberty and the Aces, Gosh,
this is tough because I do feel like the Aces
are a different team from when the Liberty beat them
those other times. They are just hitting a stride right now,
and Asia Wilson is hitting a stride and Chelsea Gray
(40:33):
is back to the playoff point. God, and you can't
ever count her out for that. But Sabrina has something
different in her eye. That focus is there. She was
in the gym in the off season and me and
Cheryl Swoops talked about it on our podcast.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
She could have been up for most Improved Player, Like she's.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Added so much into her bag that it's it's tough
to be a liberty team where Stuwie is playing at
a high level and she has a quiet thirty because
Sabrina is making so much noise not only from beyond
the three point line but also in the paint and
attacking and driving. So I have New York because I
(41:16):
just feel like this is their season, all right.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
That was unfair of me, So thank you guys. I
appreciate you playing a lot in there. It's a tough one.
This is gonna be so much fun. Listen to the
Athletic Women's Basketball Podcast. Listen to Queens of the Court
Jordan alongside Cheryl Swoops, and thanks to both of you
for hopping on.
Speaker 4 (41:34):
Thank you for having us.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
We gotta pay some bills. When we come back. We
air out some weirdos for being weirdos. Welcome back, Slices.
It's been a while since we called someone out for
fucking around and finding out and it's time we're back. Baby.
Let's talk about the gambling site and I'm not giving
(41:59):
it Freeable City by naming it here. That set odds
on Chicago's Skyrookie Angel Reese's Next Boyfriend, The Superstar first
year player talked about the kind of guy she likes
on her podcast, Unapologetically Angel, saying, quote, he gotta be
tall six ' seven, six ' eight yeah NBA end quote,
And there were rumors that she was dating Detroit Piston's
power forward Jalen Duran. So the gambling site ran with it,
(42:21):
making an Angel Reese Next Boyfriend odds chart and allowing
people to bet on her dating life. Now, listen, we
love a good gab sesshon about who's dating who. See
our ongoing Aposto Bam coverage and the fact that Taylor's
with and Travis Kelsey videos are basically my whole personality.
But we draw the line at profiting off people betting
(42:42):
on someone's love life. Come on, now, we're going to
keep poking our nose in other people's business when and
only when they're appearing at each other's Keys to the
City day or performing on stage at a multi billion
dollar tour. We have standards here. Okay, we love that
you're listening, but we want you to get in the
game every day too. So here's our good gameplay of
the day. Let's counteract some of the garbage in the
(43:02):
menshies of our FAVEWNBA players and send them some love instead.
So find a couple of your favorites and send them
some positive messages please on X, Twitter, Insta, wherever, and
we love to hear from you, So hit us up
on email good game at wondermedianetwork dot com or leave
us a voicemail at eight seven two two oh four
fifty seventy. We'll take all those positive messages too, and
(43:23):
don't forget to subscribe, rate and review. It's easy watch
Twitter slash x owner Elon Musk changing the block feature
so blocked users can still see the posts of the
accounts that block them, rating a billion T out of
a billion T fail whales review. Elon has long hated
the block feature, saying it quote unquote makes no sense,
(43:45):
which is exactly what someone would say who's been blocked
thousands and thousands of times for I don't know, inciting hate,
spreading misinformation, restoring Donald Trump's Twitter threatening a cage match
with Mark Zuckerberg, selling blue check marks, making the report
function essentially useless. Making the search function essentially useless, making
the security protection essentially useless, losing users, losing billions, and
(44:06):
losing cool points for shit like posting a picture holding
a sink and writing quote let that sink in. So
not only has he confused us all by giving Twitter
two names Twitter x, twitter x, I don't know what
the fuck is, but he's also allowed right wing bots
to continue flourishing and harassing people, and now he wants
the harassment to be less checked. Allowing block users to
(44:27):
see your content just makes it that much easier for
them to continue to harass you. Sure, folks have always
been able to create another account, logging over there and
go creep on your posts, but at least that creates
some sort of barrier, some sort of work. Now, if
your stocker wants to keep up with you, Elon's made
it real easy, and I have no doubt that this
is just a step toward eliminating the block feature altogether,
(44:47):
something he's been threatening to do since he became the
app's evil overlord. Thankfully, Apple's App Store guidelines mandate that
social networks offer quote the ability to block abusive users
from the service end quote, So maybe that'll keep captain
Dick Rockets somewhat in line. Now. Am I gonna get
off Twitter or whatever the fuck it's called. I'm not
because that would be letting him win, and because I'm addicted,
(45:10):
So I'll be on it till they pry my phone
out of my cold dead hands. What can I say,
I'm weak. Now it's your turn, rate and review. Thanks
for listening, have a great weekend and see you next week.
Good game, Jordan, Good game, Ben, Thank you again, Lady
with the band Nail's shirt. No one wants you here
in case that wasn't clear. Good Game with Sarah Spain
(45:33):
is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep
Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzie
and Misha Jones. Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz,
Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rudder,
Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and Lindsay Cradowell. Production assistants from
(45:56):
Lucy Jones and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain st
Host
Sarah Spain
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