September 30, 2025 • 35 mins
You missed us, huh? Fret not, Big Citrus is BACK! This time, Sarah, Misha and Alex break down the suspension that caused Cheryl Reeve to miss the decisive game 4 of the Minnesota Lynx’s series with the Phoenix Mercury, Reeve’s criticism of WNBA officiating, and Phoenix’s return to the Finals. Then, the trio predicts the winner of the Las Vegas Aces and Indiana Fever series. Plus, JuJu’s staying sidelined, AU Pro Volleyball is back in action, and the jury’s out on a new Netflix biopic.
- Watch highlights from the Diana Taurasi bench celebration here
-
The AU Pro Volleyball Championship Schedule is here
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The China Open schedule is here
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And results are here
- Read Kendra Andrews' story for ESPN about the data on WNBA officiating and injuries here
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Read Emma Baccellieri’s Sports Illustrated story about WNBA officiating here
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Listen to the "This American Life" segment about the MNBA's replay center here
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Leave us a voicemail at 872-204-5070 or send us a note at goodgame@wondermedianetwork.com
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Follow Sarah on social! Bluesky: @sarahspain.com Instagram: @Spain2323
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Follow producer Misha Jones! Bluesky: @mishthejrnalist.bsky.social Instagram: @mishthejrnalist
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Follow producer Alex Azzi! Bluesky: @byalexazzi.bsky.social
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're staying
neutral for Game five of the Aces Fever series by
wearing both a pink wig.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And a red leather jacket.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
It's Tuesday, September thirtieth, and on today's show, Big Citrus
is back to dissect Phoenix's semi final series triumph over
Minnesota Unpacked, Cheryl Reeves's suspension and preview tonight's Game five
binale between the Aces and Fever, plus confirmation of a
Juju list season winning in multiples of twenty five and
its volleyball's Double Trouble era. It's all coming up right
(00:31):
after this Welcome back slices. Here's what you need to
know today. Let's start with college hoops and the news
that USC star Juju Watkins will miss the twenty twenty
five to twenty sixth season as she continues to recover
(00:51):
from an ACL tear she suffered in the second round
of March Madness earlier this year. Watkins announced the news
on Instagram on Sunday, saying, in part quote, I wanted
to hear it from me directly that, following the advice
of my doctors and trainers, I will sit out this
season and fully focus on continuing to recover so I
can come back to the game I love.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
This isn't really a surprise considering the recovery time for
an ACL tear, but it's still a bummer to imagine
a college hoop season without Juju. She won both the
Nasmith Trophy and Wooden Awards last season as a sophomore
after helping USC earn a number one seed in the
NCAA Tournament for a second straight season. We're rooting for you, Juju,
and we can't wait to see you back when you're
fully recovered and ready more hoops. The WNBA playoffs continue
(01:34):
tonight with the decisive Game five of the Las Vegas
Aces Indiana Fever semi final series. That game, which Vegas
is hosting, gets underwent nine thirty pm Eastern on ESPN
two now. As a reminder, the best of seven WNBA
Finals begin on Friday, featuring a two to two one
one one format, with the higher seed hosting games one, two, five,
(01:56):
and seven.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
If the Aces defeat.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Indiana, they'll at that honor, while Phoenix will be top
ranked if the Fever prevails. Lots more WNBA talk to
come when Big Citrus gets together later in the show.
To volleyball, the Athletes Unlimited Pro Volleyball Championship, a five
week tournament that'll be split between Omaha, Nebraska and Madison, Wisconsin,
gets underway today with the week one draft and matches
(02:19):
get started this Friday. Forty four athletes are set to
compete in the AU Attorney, including US Olympic medallist Jordan Thompson,
Micah Hancock, and Justine Wangorantez, all of whom are making
their Athletes Unlimited debuts. We'll link to the full schedule
in the show notes, and if you're in Nebraska or Wisconsin,
go check out a game in person. More volleyball, the
(02:40):
college season is in full swing and two top programs
remain undefeated one month into the season. The number one
Nebraska Huskers are twelve and zero, while the number two
Texas Longhorns are ten and oh Meantime, number seven Wisconsin
is nine to one and winning the attendance game. Per
the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, an average of eight zo six
(03:00):
hundred twenty fans are attending games at Wisconsin's Coal Center,
good for the best average attendants in the country, and
the Badgers just capped off their first weekend of conference
play by sweeping Iowa three sets to none, given coach
Kelly Sheffield the six hundredth win of his career to
tennis and the ongoing China Open. IGOs Fiontek defeated Kamila
(03:21):
Ozorio in the round of thirty two on Monday, giving
her her four hundredth career win and making her the
first player to record twenty five or more wins at
WTA one thousand events for three consecutive seasons. Other round
of thirty two highlights include Jessica Pagoula defeating Almirotcanue, Coco
Goff triumphing over Layla Fernandez, and Amanda Anisimova defeating host
(03:43):
Nation player Jong Shwai. By the time y'all hear this,
the round of sixteen will already be underway, so we'll
link to the full China Open schedule and results in
the show notes and some soccer news, The NWSL announced
the lineup of events planned for Championship Weekend in San Jose, California,
at the end of November. This year's festivities will include
the first ever NWSL Awards presented by AT and T,
(04:05):
a new signature event that's set to be broadcast live
on ESPN two Wednesday, October nineteenth, where you'll see awards
like MVP, Rookie of the Year, Golden Boot, and Moore
handed out. Other highlights include the return of the NWSL
Skills Challenge, NWSL FanFest, and an official NWSL postgame party
at San Pedro Square Market in San Jose. Lots more
(04:25):
on NWSL Championship Weekend coming as we get closer to November.
One last thing, Slices. I wanted to send a quick
congrats to friend of the show repeat guest host of
The Women's Soup Show, Jordan Robinson, who recently revealed on
social that she's expecting a baby with her husband, which
means that when she was last on her show, she
was actually podcasting for two So you know, put good
(04:48):
game with Sarah Spain guest on that baby's resume.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
We do in baby resumes these days. Anyway, We got to.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Take a quick break, but when we come back, Big Citrus
is back, Baby.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Welcome back, Slices.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Let's bring in Alex and Misha for a little Big
Citrus chat.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Hi al Hi mish Yo. Hell.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Since we last gathered, a lot has happened. The top
seeded Minnesota Links are out and the last game they
played they did not have their superstar and Afisa Collier,
and they did not have their head coach, Cheryl Reeves.
So before we move on to tonight's fever Aces game
and some other WNBA topics, we didn't have a chance
to talk about that, and I just wanted your sort
(05:40):
of big takeaway, your response to the decision to suspend Cheryl.
How much you think that really changed everything or didn't
for the Links mish.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
What do you think?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
So, first of all, I think Cheryl Reeve was absolutely
justified in going off on behalf of FISA caller for
everything that went down and how it went down, Because
as a head coach of an organization like the Minnesota Lynx,
who has a franchise player so much hinges on the
VISA caller, like whether or not officials Alyssa Thomas, whoever
(06:14):
was at fault, I see all the reason in the
world for her to go up like that, because you
want to show not only your players that you want
to protect them, but you can't expect her to not
have an emotional vis or reaction to that. So I
completely understood that I did think she deserved to be
fined and suspended. It sucks timing wise, obviously, because they
have a clinching Game four coming up and they end
(06:36):
up losing it. But when you take that big swing,
when you want to make a stand, when you want
to make a point, sometimes there are consequences that come
with that. And so I think, as a well tenured
coach in this league is somebody with plenty of experience
at the international and domestic level, she knew exactly what
she was doing and she knew how far she was
willing to take it. So I don't blame her for that,
and so I think, yeah, Urol was absolutely justified in
(06:59):
doing everything she did.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
With that, I really do.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Yeah, I agree with that to a point. I think
that a coach standing up for her players, a coach
in the postgame press conference, advocating on behalf of her
players and even calling out the officials, I get that.
I think for me, when it comes to physically right
engaging with the referees, that to me crosses the line.
(07:22):
And so I understand why she did it. But I
think the WNBA, like you said, Misha, I think they
were justified in suspending her because of how she pursued
the referees in that situation, and also because of the
reporting on how she was yelling at fans. That to
me goes beyond the like just advocating on behalf of
her player.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah, I'm going to say I agree with both of you,
and I would just add on that there's a difference
between I understand why someone did something and I defend it.
I understand her anger seeing the FISA Collier get injured.
I understand her reaction and being in this sort of
rage filled, uncontrollable place where she needs to be held back,
(08:02):
where she's gonna yell at fans, Like as someone who
is problematically competitive and invested in things, I would never
begin to say, Oh, I would never do that.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
You have to have more self control.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I get why she felt that way in that moment
and reacted that way, and there is no excuse for it.
She was rightfully suspended, and for all the respect I
have for Cheryl or even everything she stands for, she
hurt her team because she wasn't able to control her
reaction in that moment. And again her reaction was to
(08:35):
the result, not to the action. When she saw the foul,
which was the steal. Her reaction came only when she
saw that Nifisa Collier was injured, which again I understand.
But ultimately, then the anger about the lack of a
call is really about the outcome, which is the injury,
and less so about whether the call was that egregious.
(08:56):
And I've heard every argument on both sides about whether
it incidental contact if your body is in a position
where you can't keep it from hitting the other person,
even if the steal was clean, should.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Still be called the foul.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
But technically letter of the law in the WNBA, if
you steal the ball and then the contact happens after,
if the steel was clean, it's not a foul.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Like I've heard plenty of.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
People talk about this letter of the law and how
you should actually enforce it. I just think ultimately she
hurt her team by not being there, and it was
not an intentional foul. It was a bad luck situation
where incidental contact resulted in Nafisa being out, and I
think it massively impacted I'm I think the Phoenix Mercury
(09:39):
for me might have been a favorite going into Game four,
even with Nafisa in, because of the way they were
playing the way that they had shown up in that
series and the momentum that they had. I think if
not for the injury or the suspension of everything was even,
I still might have said, man, I might have the
mercury in this one.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I hard agree with that. I heard agree with that.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Where I am gonna disagree a little bit. I think
Cheryl not being there definitely had an effect. But I
also know that Eric Tebow has some experience being a
head coach, and so I think, you know, for everything
to be the way it was, I think he did
a pretty damn good job, and I think the team
stepped up obviously in a bunch of ways. Kaylea McBride
(10:21):
setting a playoff career high. Courtney Williams, she's a mid
range menace.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
She was.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
She was a maestro with the mid range. Disagree.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
I agree she missed a lot of shots. She did
miss a lot of shots. There were a lot of
them off who were not missing as shot Jessica Shepherd, Nickbride,
you had players that were effective every time, and I
thought Corney was trying to shoot her way into feeling
it and never quite got there, and unfortunately time ran out.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I think Corny did a great job.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
I think the team rallied, but I think there were
moments where if they had tightened things up. I mean,
their game was all runs right, and the Mercury were consistent.
They had a twelve to one run to start the game,
they had a twenty to nine run to start the
second half. Once things settled down and they were less
in my opinion, disciplined, and it started to look a
(11:11):
little more like they were making it up on the
offensive end instead of running plays and setting up players.
That's when the Murky would get back into it. And
a lot of that, to me was Courtney Williams taking
shots too early in possessions when there weren't defenders down
the floor, when people weren't set up to try to get.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Rebounds and get second chances.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
So not completely infallible, but they were in a really
tough position.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah, And that's the tough thing, right.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
People don't understand when you have a star player, not
only do you have somebody that you can go to,
but everybody understands in that hierarchy kind of where they stand.
And when you have k Back and Courtney and Jess
Shepherd stepping into a role that she wasn't expecting to
have to play.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
You really also have to battle through some of that.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
And while you know, I do think the first quarter
Courtney Williams was nasty, but like you said, once the
game wears on, you have to figure out who's got
the shot in what position and all that good stuff.
And so yeah, in Minnesota just kind of fell apart,
and Phoenix turned it up right when they needed to
talk about a team who takes on We talked about
it last time we all got on air. But Alyssa
(12:08):
Thomas and the way that team has taken on all
of her just gusto and indomitable spirit. I think it's
incredible and watching them run away with that in the
fourth quarter was something to see, something to see.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yeah, we just talked to Callie Finn about the Aces
needing to figure out how to get this particular group together,
gell find their roles, make it work, and maybe that
is a little tougher when you have an established, winning, championship,
winning team, the same way we talked about with the
Liberty right, when you have something that works and then
you lose pieces, sometimes it's actually harder to recover than
when you're a fever team who's been blown up by
(12:46):
injury and brand new to begin with, or in this case,
a Mercury team that has two returning players that we
all think, Wow, a lot of talent there, but it's
gonna take them some time to figure something out. They'll
they'll start to contend maybe next year, and instead they're
un burdened what was the Kamal quote, underburdened by the
realities of the.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Past or something like that.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Right then, they didn't have a past, they didn't have
any expectation, they didn't have roles yet, and so they
were able to slide into and figure out what worked best.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
And man, I mean, do.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Wanna Bonner like that game was like a microcosm macrocosm
for the season. It was like first half she basically
wasn't there, and then when she showed up, things got
a lot better. Kind of was like pre and post
trade for that team too. Before we talk about the
Mercury moving on to the finals and what they looked
like last time versus this time, I do want to
(13:37):
circle back quickly on the officiating because there was an
interesting story on ESPN from Kendra Andrews and let me
read a quick piece from it.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
League sources told the ESPN that their data does not
show any correlation between the rash of recent playoff injuries
and missed calls by officials end quote, and it later
says quote. WNBA Referee Operations reviews data throughout the season
to address what league sources referred to as legitimate criticism
and pinpoint areas officials need to improve on. Through that process,
(14:05):
the Referee Operations Committee found that allegations that officiating errors
have led to more injuries were unfounded. League sources told
ESPN end quote. Now, I just want to say about this.
I think it's very hard to say this foul led
to this injury so much as it is to say
that calling a game in this way leads to the
(14:26):
style of play that makes it more likely for people
to get injured. So you can say that there isn't
a direct causation correlation between this thing and this thing,
But that ignores sort of the larger question of how
tight are you calling it, what are you allowing to happen?
What are you calling and what are you not and
what does that mean for the physicality of the game
(14:47):
and how that ends up resulting in not just direct injury,
but fatigue, bumps, bruises, muscle injuries, things that attendant and
stuff that make it more likely.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
To suffer injuries later.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Like all that's part it decision making too, Risks that
will be taken when a game is called tightly versus risk.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
That won't be taken.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah, like Alana Smith basically throwing her body around for
that entire Game four against the Mercury because she's like,
I'm probably not gonna call it and this is the
last game I got, so she was like, let the
bodies hit the floor, like the entire game.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
I want to zoom out for a second too on
just like the officiating conversation as a whole, because it
has been a main topic for the entire WNBA season,
and honestly, bashing referees is like a favorite American pastime
of a lot of sports leagues in general. And it's
interesting because in a lot of ways, I think you
could argue that officiating has gotten better over time. The
(15:43):
difference is that we have video replay to look at
where they got things wrong, and so I think like
there are two distinctions here, right, the officiating style of
like the physicality that's allowed and then the officiating of
missed calls, like so many other things in women's sports.
I want to make sure that when we're having this conversation,
we are looking at the reason why the current officiating
(16:06):
system in the WNBA exists. And so Emma Bacalari wrote
a good piece for SI a couple of months ago.
We'll linked to it in the show notes, but she
talked about how in the NBA, referees are salaried employees.
WNBA officials, on the other hand, are paid by the
game and they work other games like NCAA or g
League during the rest of the year. The NBA also
(16:28):
has way more stats in reports that are issued to
teams and its officials post game of showing where they
went wrong. In the WNBA doesn't have an equivalent to that.
And then I even remember there was a really good
This American Life episode a few years ago where Michael
Lewis visited this NBA replay center in Secaucus, New Jersey,
(16:48):
and they have all of these screens and they're looking
through every single call in the episode title was called
no Fair, and I was listening to it the entire
time being like, no, this isn't fair, Like why does
the NBA have this in the WNBA, So like we're
always going to have conversations about is the officiating fair?
But I want to have a conversation said about how
could the officiating be improved?
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Yeah, And I think one thing that's come up over
and over this season is that there's way too much
referee turnover in the WNBA because the best refs move
quote unquote up to the NBA because to your point,
salaried appointments, more games, longer.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Seas and all those benefits.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
And it's gosh, it's the thing we've had conversations about
in a million different ways in the sports world. Well,
if you love women's sports, why don't you just work
in women's sports. Well, because there's no pay, there's fewer games,
there's fewer league like right, It's the same across media,
it's the same across coaching. And like every time, the
accusation is if you love something enough, you'll do it,
(17:47):
and then it's like we shouldn't have to make sacrifices.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
And same goes for the quality of officiating.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
There will always be human error, but if the system
is set up for the very best to always move
on and for there to be a constant stream of
new folks, it's gonna be inevitably of a poor equality.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
And I think even a circle back on the suspension
of Cheryl Reeve, and this is I think an area
that my opinion has changed over time. The WNBA should
be incentivized to have people want to be officials and
they can show officials that they care about them. By
suspending Cheryl Reeve, right to not suspend her after she
went after them is to not protect their officials, and
(18:27):
that sends a really bad message exactly well.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
I don't think this is going to be the last
time we talk about officiating, but I hope it doesn't
become a massive point of contention during the WNBA Finals.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Here's hoping for a series.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
That's mostly about the play on the court and not
the calls on the court. Speaking of the finals, Phoenix
Mercury back in them for the first time since twenty
twenty one. I don't remember. Do you guys remember what
happened in twenty twenty one? Did they win or loser?
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Who won? Or what happened? Does anyone remember?
Speaker 4 (18:55):
Okay, Chicago, Okay, Oh that's right.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
How did I totally I forget the Chicago Sky came
from a sixth seed all the way to beat the
Phoenix Mercury and win it all.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
What a time to be alive.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Also wanted to point out quickly, while we're on the
topic of the Phoenix Mercury losing the twenty twenty one finals,
Dana Trossi after that game breaking a door, and that
leading to me giving her a retirement gift of a
bench Indoor County. That says for Detrosi, who always hated doors,
that bench is up and you can visit it, and
today I will be posting. Finally, it took me a
(19:31):
little while because I was on vacation and some other
stuff was going on. But the video of us unveiling
the bench of the slices who came out to see it,
and I'll make sure I put the location in the
video too, So if you want to stroll by and
pay your regards to the Detrosie bench, you can do so.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
But yes, this will be the first time the Mercury
back in.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
The finals since that devastating loss to Candae Parker, then
Colia Copper and the Chicago Sky.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Well, speaking of.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
The Phoenix Mark, I have a philosophical question for the
two of you, which is is something the same if
every component of it has changed?
Speaker 1 (20:10):
This is the ultimate sports question. We're just rooting for laundry, Alex.
We're not really rooting for people. We're rooting for laundry
that gets put on different people every year.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Laundry and nice colors. Yes, right.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
They haven't rebranded their jersey since then.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
I don't think wish they shouldn't.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
But they have done everything else right. When the Mercury
were in the finals in twenty twenty one, Sandy Brondello
was their head coach. They've since gotten a new controlling owner,
a new coach, and then another. Not a single player
from that twenty twenty one roster is still on that team.
And there is this paradox.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
It's called the Ship of Theseus.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
I don't know if you've heard of it, but it
is the philosophical question that says, is an object the
same object after having all of its original components replaced
over time and in some ways the only thing that's
constant is the fans that have stuck with this team.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
And there's an interesting angle of the Dowana Bond, she
who won titles with the Mercury but not that twenty
one team is back. So I don't know if she
would be an original plank in the ship of theseus
that eventually became the twenty twenty one team that then
became the twenty twenty five team, or if that was
a whole different ship.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
But they won the ship, and.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
So that part feels like it's a part of that
old Mercury squad that we imagine that had longer tenured
pieces and had more consistency. This new look team, to
your point, it's a whole different world over there. And
I want to say that I don't know Nate Tibbets personally.
(21:39):
He got a lot of flack for being the highest
paid coach in the league as a man without the experience,
while we watched women not be afforded the same salary,
and that sort of has been conflated with him being
a bad coach or undeserving, And I just want to
say that he did a fantastic job with this team,
(22:00):
and whether or not he was deserving when he took
the job of getting paid that much, he has certainly
made an argument for himself as one of the best
coaches in the league putting together these pieces, making that
trade midway through.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
That's obviously the GM two. But this has been a
really impressive run.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
And I again don't know him, but I kind of
think he should stop being a punchline for something that
was more about a broken system than it was about
him taking the money he was offered.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Maybe it's time.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
All I'm gonna say is shout out to Christy Tolliver,
who is the associate head coach of the Phoenix Mercury,
because I know she's been doing work behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Maybe that's not shaye to Nate.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
That's just saying, while we're throwing shout outs to the
coaching staff, I gotta say shout out to her because
you know, I also think part of being a good
coach is knowing where your weaknesses lie, right, is knowing
what help you need and having somebody like her and
the rest of that staff. You know, Christy has championship
experience for two completely different franchises, right in a completely
different era of the WNBA basketball.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
So shout out to her.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Shameless shameless shout out Christy.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Yeah, And I think right it's one of those things
where you can both be critical about the higher and
also the whole branding it of you know, the girl
dad coming in.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yeah, that didn't right. And again the question is was
that him? Was that them?
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Was that someone in pr saying, oh, you know, it'll
make this better talk about how you have daughters, and
we'll like, please stop doing that.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
Sure, but in the same way that so many other
people are questioned about their lack of experience when they
have far more experience than Nate did coming into this role,
you know, like you have to change with the times
and appreciate what he's got to do for this team.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Oh for sure.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah, it was all fair at the time, and now
I think it's fair to not keep taking shots just
because it's fun.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
Plus, who are we to critique the third longest tenured
coach in.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
The very true? That is very true. He's a staple.
He's a staple, truly.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
All right, let's talk about the other series, because we
got a decisive Game five tonight. The phrase in sports
is the two best words in sports game seven. But
these semi final series only go to five, so we're
gonna go the two best words in semi final series
Game five fever aces. And before we get to our predictions, meche,
I know you wanted to talk about a person who
played a pretty big role in some stars from these
(24:19):
teams getting this far.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
Yeah, how could we not after we just had down
on the show. How could we not say shout out
to Don Staley and her South Carolina program producing two
of the best post players in the best post battle
that I think I've ever seen in the WNBA postseason.
Talking about two pure, like genuine post players and not
(24:41):
giving you any flashy stuff. They might hit it three
every once in a while, maybe, but it's really about
what's happening in the painted area. It's been a masterclass
in so many things in doing your work early and
getting in What I mean by that for folks who
aren't used to basketball terminology, it's getting in position as
early as possible on every single possession.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
And a basketball game has hell of possessions, y'all.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
And this is a punch for punch battle, which we
need to It's a masterclass and running the floor in
footwork in tight spaces. Because both these teams defenses are
now one is focused on Asia Wilson, one is focused
on Aliah Boston, and both of them are having to
figure out puzzles basically on every offensive possession, defensively dominant.
I mean, the next generation of post players who are
(25:28):
watching this matchup are going to be so much better
for having witnessed it.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I really truly believe that.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
So shout out to Don Staley in South Carolina for
turning these two out. Shout out to the post coaches
and everybody who worked with them during that time to
help get them to the WNBA, And then shout out
to Asia and Aliah for putting the work in from
that point forward, because we would not be getting a matchup.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Of this caliber without that work.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
And I think we would be remiss not to mention
it because the the game Cocks out to be loving this.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
You think John Staley is messing with the beads on
her necklace nervously or sitting back relax eating popcorn.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
How is she viewing this battle of two of her faves?
You know it's funny.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
I actually think I saw a tweet from her in
response to like Holly Rowe or somebody else from ESPN saying,
I'm actually pretty calm because regardless of what happens, I
got a game Cock in the finals, So I get it.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
I get it, Mesh literally direct quote I am actually
pretty calm, is what she said.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I can't lose you.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Well, I remember something sometimes good for her.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
I am not at all, and I have nothing in
the fight.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
I am just stressed about it because a game bye
is stressful.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Misha. I'm putting you on the spot based on what
you just said.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
You got to pick one of those dominant post players
and their team who's winning this game.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
I've been putting off writing. I have notes. I have
notes every time we do Big Sisters, and I've been
putting off writing in who I actually think is going
to win because I genuinely do not have a clue.
My gut is telling me Las Vegas. My gut is
telling me that they're gonna pull it out on their
home core.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
My gut is telling me they.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Remember getting punched in the mouth in Game one. They
remember what it felt like, that sour taste in their mouth,
losing on the Indiana Fever's home court. And my gut
tells me that when we shift back to Vegas, that
crowd is no longer going to be in Indiana's favor
and Vegas is gonna have the feed on that. But
Jackie Young, Chelsea Gray, Melissa Smith they gonna have to
(27:22):
pick up the slack and Asia Wilson can not struggle.
Everybody has to be fired in all cylinders. But I'm
gonna go Aces. My gut is telling me Aces, Yes,
that's it.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
Can we talk for a minute about Chelsea Gray because
when they won their titles a couple of years ago,
Chelsea Gray point god just on top of everything. Last
season she ended up being injured playing through some stuff.
What's going on with her this year though, because I
feel like she is still not back to that Chelsea
Gray that we know and love, and I'm not totally
(27:55):
sure what's going on with her and just so curious
what you two are seeing.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Yeah, I mean, one thing about this series and the
matchups is that Chelsea's what a six foot tall point
guard or something like that. The Fever have got Odyssey Simms,
who's tiny and quick. They've got you know, Shae Petty
coming off the bench. They've got Kelsey Mitchell, who gets
switched on to Chelsea Gray. So they've got all these
little tiny guards that Chelsea could shoot over. But in
(28:20):
the course of a five game series where you're going
up and down, you're being pushed to cover a whole
lot of ground offensively and defensively.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
That's a lot. That is a whole lot to.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Ask Chelsea Gray to do, especially when this is no
shade to Dan Evans whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
I love her game.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
I love her as a point guard, but when she
comes in off the bench as a point guard, things
really shift for the Las Vegas Aces. And then if
you don't go to her as the backup, you go
to Jackie Young sometimes bringing the ball up the floor,
it just looks a lot different. So Chelsea has to
carry a lot when she is on the floor. And
I think it's just those matchups are really tough. They're
really tough to exploit.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
I think also it's about ball movement with this team.
When Chelsea Gray is rhythm facilitating and the ball movement
is on for them, she'll get more shooting opportunities because
of where it opens her up. And she also plays
freer and with more swag. And to me that Chelsea
is a better player, not just looks better, but is
(29:18):
more effective. And when their ball movement isn't good and
when their offense as stagnant, she doesn't function as well
in it. None of them do, but more so than
anyone else. I think we see her numbers drop off
when that happens, because she doesn't really create shots for
herself the same way as she creates opportunities for others
(29:39):
and then works her offense out of the flow of
what's going on. And at times, especially in that last game,
they stop flowing. There was very little flow, and I
think she is a rhythm player in that way. That's
at least how I read it.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
I love the question, though, I think you're onto something,
and for them to win, she's got to bring that
twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three five back.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
I think the team needs to come with some swag
because one thing that I've really respected out of the
Fever side, and there was a good story on the
nine newsletter by Tony East about it, who spoke to
some of the Fever players after that last game. Shape
Petty said, nobody has us winning, so we've been doing
this whole series with no pressure, and that's a dangerous
(30:20):
team playing with no pressure, right, They're just coming out
there loose. Tony East wrote about how it was like
maybe two minutes before the half started when they started
to trickle in took a shot or too somebody's dancing,
somebody's just chilling, not even taking shots before the half starts.
That they just felt so at ease, and I feel
like it is sort of to steal a Vegas term.
They're playing with house money, they were counted out, and
because they're playing free and for each other and with
(30:44):
each other, beyond just that, we're all we got, where
all we need. Thing that they've been rallying around, they're
really playing like that, and that to me is clear
versus a Vegas team that when they get stanked and
it feels like a piano drops on their back where
they're like, oh, go go, we should be winning this.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
And so that'll be really interesting to see.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
My gut tells me Asia will not let them lose
at home in a game five, and Becky Hammond will
want to redeem herself for both the timeout that she
called that they didn't have and maybe some roster decisions
that weren't that effective. But I would not be surprised
in the slightest, so much so that I just said
suprised instead of surprised. I would not be surprised at
(31:23):
all if the Fever won, which blows my mind. But
so what's your thick I said it's the Aces. My
gut is the Aces. But I'm saying it's not an
easy one. It is not a Aces should win this.
So they will because the way lea of Boston. If
they can't figure that out and if Asia struggles at all, Ova, Alex,
what your gut telling you other than probably you should
(31:45):
eat breakfast and or lunch, which you probably have had neither.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Of correct and correct that's a read.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
Yeah, I'm going Aces. I have a hard time batting
against the Aces, so much so that I don't bet
at all.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Okay, while we've succeeded in jinxing the ass truly three
for theses knowne for the Fever, just bite everything they've
done in this series.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
They've really earned our respect, just not enough for us
to choose them for the record. I would love to
see an underdog story. I wouldn't mind you, but just
you got your two gay moms, the mercury I've advanced.
Now we need the other half.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Of your earlier show prediction of what would best for
the league. Always great get in big such respect. Yeah,
we got to take a break though, when we come
back vaulting into the upside down.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Welcome back slices. Don't forget.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
We always love to hear from you, so hit us
up on email, good game at Wondermedia network dot com
or leave us a voicemail at eight seven two two
four fifty seventy, and don't forget to subscribe.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Rate and review. It's it's so easy.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Watch a new Netflix bio pick on Carrie's Strug rating
jury's still out till we see this one review. Netflix
is developing a new biopick on Carrie Strug called Perfect,
starring Millie Bobby Brown, who you might remember from Stranger Things,
and Nola Holmes being the youngest person ever selected to
be a unise F Goodwill ambassador, or maybe her marriage
(33:24):
to John bon Jovi's son Jake bon Jovi and their
adoption of a baby girl last month, which was all.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
The rage on the interwebs.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Anyway, the reason the jury's out on this one for
me is because I have a lot of questions about
the angle this movie's going to take. Will it be
sort of a jingoistic puff piece? Remembering the glory of
Strug's viral moment clinching gold for the US and the
ninety six Olympics by completing a vault with a major
ankle injury. Go USA, Or is it going to address
the complicated nature of sports, particularly gymnastics and young athletes
(33:54):
being forced to perform through injury despite the potential long
lasting effects. And what about now deceased coach Bella Coroli
who famously carried Strug to the podium to.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Get her metal. We all remember that vision, right, Well,
we now know that the coaching.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Methods employed by Bella and his wife have been described
by some of his athletes as verbally and psychologically abusive,
and that many instances of sexual abuse perpetrated by disgraced
former USA gymnastics team doctor Larry Nassar occurred at the
Coroli ranch.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Now also worth noting, athletes are.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Notoriously hard to play by narps, non athletic regular people
gymnasts especially such a specific body type. So Strug was
a four foot eight powerhouse olympian. Brown is a five
foot three artiste. But you know, there's always movie magic.
This could be a super powerful examination of Strug's story
and its many layers, or just a made for streaming
(34:46):
nostalgia hit that lets us all feel real good about
a potent sports memory from our youth.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
We'll have to wait and see.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Now it's your turn, y'all, rate and review, Thanks for listening,
See you tomorrow. Good Game Phoenix Mercury and finals of
to be decided tonight, Good Game Wisconsin Volleyball and Kelly Sheffield.
You the fact that fever Aces has to end tonight
and then we'll only have one series left and then
the WNBA season will be over. Good Game with Sarah
(35:14):
Spain is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with
Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzie
and Misha Jones.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan
and Emily Rudder.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Our editors are Emily Rutter, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and
Gianna Palmer.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Our associate producer is Lucy Jones.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Production assistance from Avery Loftus and I'm your Host Sarah
Spain
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're staying
neutral for Game five of the Aces Fever series by
wearing both a pink wig.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And a red leather jacket.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
It's Tuesday, September thirtieth, and on today's show, Big Citrus
is back to dissect Phoenix's semi final series triumph over
Minnesota Unpacked, Cheryl Reeves's suspension and preview tonight's Game five
binale between the Aces and Fever, plus confirmation of a
Juju list season winning in multiples of twenty five and
its volleyball's Double Trouble era. It's all coming up right
(00:31):
after this Welcome back slices. Here's what you need to
know today. Let's start with college hoops and the news
that USC star Juju Watkins will miss the twenty twenty
five to twenty sixth season as she continues to recover
(00:51):
from an ACL tear she suffered in the second round
of March Madness earlier this year. Watkins announced the news
on Instagram on Sunday, saying, in part quote, I wanted
to hear it from me directly that, following the advice
of my doctors and trainers, I will sit out this
season and fully focus on continuing to recover so I
can come back to the game I love.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
This isn't really a surprise considering the recovery time for
an ACL tear, but it's still a bummer to imagine
a college hoop season without Juju. She won both the
Nasmith Trophy and Wooden Awards last season as a sophomore
after helping USC earn a number one seed in the
NCAA Tournament for a second straight season. We're rooting for you, Juju,
and we can't wait to see you back when you're
fully recovered and ready more hoops. The WNBA playoffs continue
(01:34):
tonight with the decisive Game five of the Las Vegas
Aces Indiana Fever semi final series. That game, which Vegas
is hosting, gets underwent nine thirty pm Eastern on ESPN
two now. As a reminder, the best of seven WNBA
Finals begin on Friday, featuring a two to two one
one one format, with the higher seed hosting games one, two, five,
(01:56):
and seven.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
If the Aces defeat.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Indiana, they'll at that honor, while Phoenix will be top
ranked if the Fever prevails. Lots more WNBA talk to
come when Big Citrus gets together later in the show.
To volleyball, the Athletes Unlimited Pro Volleyball Championship, a five
week tournament that'll be split between Omaha, Nebraska and Madison, Wisconsin,
gets underway today with the week one draft and matches
(02:19):
get started this Friday. Forty four athletes are set to
compete in the AU Attorney, including US Olympic medallist Jordan Thompson,
Micah Hancock, and Justine Wangorantez, all of whom are making
their Athletes Unlimited debuts. We'll link to the full schedule
in the show notes, and if you're in Nebraska or Wisconsin,
go check out a game in person. More volleyball, the
(02:40):
college season is in full swing and two top programs
remain undefeated one month into the season. The number one
Nebraska Huskers are twelve and zero, while the number two
Texas Longhorns are ten and oh Meantime, number seven Wisconsin
is nine to one and winning the attendance game. Per
the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, an average of eight zo six
(03:00):
hundred twenty fans are attending games at Wisconsin's Coal Center,
good for the best average attendants in the country, and
the Badgers just capped off their first weekend of conference
play by sweeping Iowa three sets to none, given coach
Kelly Sheffield the six hundredth win of his career to
tennis and the ongoing China Open. IGOs Fiontek defeated Kamila
(03:21):
Ozorio in the round of thirty two on Monday, giving
her her four hundredth career win and making her the
first player to record twenty five or more wins at
WTA one thousand events for three consecutive seasons. Other round
of thirty two highlights include Jessica Pagoula defeating Almirotcanue, Coco
Goff triumphing over Layla Fernandez, and Amanda Anisimova defeating host
(03:43):
Nation player Jong Shwai. By the time y'all hear this,
the round of sixteen will already be underway, so we'll
link to the full China Open schedule and results in
the show notes and some soccer news, The NWSL announced
the lineup of events planned for Championship Weekend in San Jose, California,
at the end of November. This year's festivities will include
the first ever NWSL Awards presented by AT and T,
(04:05):
a new signature event that's set to be broadcast live
on ESPN two Wednesday, October nineteenth, where you'll see awards
like MVP, Rookie of the Year, Golden Boot, and Moore
handed out. Other highlights include the return of the NWSL
Skills Challenge, NWSL FanFest, and an official NWSL postgame party
at San Pedro Square Market in San Jose. Lots more
(04:25):
on NWSL Championship Weekend coming as we get closer to November.
One last thing, Slices. I wanted to send a quick
congrats to friend of the show repeat guest host of
The Women's Soup Show, Jordan Robinson, who recently revealed on
social that she's expecting a baby with her husband, which
means that when she was last on her show, she
was actually podcasting for two So you know, put good
(04:48):
game with Sarah Spain guest on that baby's resume.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
We do in baby resumes these days. Anyway, We got to.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Take a quick break, but when we come back, Big Citrus
is back, Baby.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Welcome back, Slices.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Let's bring in Alex and Misha for a little Big
Citrus chat.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Hi al Hi mish Yo. Hell.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Since we last gathered, a lot has happened. The top
seeded Minnesota Links are out and the last game they
played they did not have their superstar and Afisa Collier,
and they did not have their head coach, Cheryl Reeves.
So before we move on to tonight's fever Aces game
and some other WNBA topics, we didn't have a chance
to talk about that, and I just wanted your sort
(05:40):
of big takeaway, your response to the decision to suspend Cheryl.
How much you think that really changed everything or didn't
for the Links mish.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
What do you think?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
So, first of all, I think Cheryl Reeve was absolutely
justified in going off on behalf of FISA caller for
everything that went down and how it went down, Because
as a head coach of an organization like the Minnesota Lynx,
who has a franchise player so much hinges on the
VISA caller, like whether or not officials Alyssa Thomas, whoever
(06:14):
was at fault, I see all the reason in the
world for her to go up like that, because you
want to show not only your players that you want
to protect them, but you can't expect her to not
have an emotional vis or reaction to that. So I
completely understood that I did think she deserved to be
fined and suspended. It sucks timing wise, obviously, because they
have a clinching Game four coming up and they end
(06:36):
up losing it. But when you take that big swing,
when you want to make a stand, when you want
to make a point, sometimes there are consequences that come
with that. And so I think, as a well tenured
coach in this league is somebody with plenty of experience
at the international and domestic level, she knew exactly what
she was doing and she knew how far she was
willing to take it. So I don't blame her for that,
and so I think, yeah, Urol was absolutely justified in
(06:59):
doing everything she did.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
With that, I really do.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Yeah, I agree with that to a point. I think
that a coach standing up for her players, a coach
in the postgame press conference, advocating on behalf of her
players and even calling out the officials, I get that.
I think for me, when it comes to physically right
engaging with the referees, that to me crosses the line.
(07:22):
And so I understand why she did it. But I
think the WNBA, like you said, Misha, I think they
were justified in suspending her because of how she pursued
the referees in that situation, and also because of the
reporting on how she was yelling at fans. That to
me goes beyond the like just advocating on behalf of
her player.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah, I'm going to say I agree with both of you,
and I would just add on that there's a difference
between I understand why someone did something and I defend it.
I understand her anger seeing the FISA Collier get injured.
I understand her reaction and being in this sort of
rage filled, uncontrollable place where she needs to be held back,
(08:02):
where she's gonna yell at fans, Like as someone who
is problematically competitive and invested in things, I would never
begin to say, Oh, I would never do that.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
You have to have more self control.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I get why she felt that way in that moment
and reacted that way, and there is no excuse for it.
She was rightfully suspended, and for all the respect I
have for Cheryl or even everything she stands for, she
hurt her team because she wasn't able to control her
reaction in that moment. And again her reaction was to
(08:35):
the result, not to the action. When she saw the foul,
which was the steal. Her reaction came only when she
saw that Nifisa Collier was injured, which again I understand.
But ultimately, then the anger about the lack of a
call is really about the outcome, which is the injury,
and less so about whether the call was that egregious.
(08:56):
And I've heard every argument on both sides about whether
it incidental contact if your body is in a position
where you can't keep it from hitting the other person,
even if the steal was clean, should.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Still be called the foul.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
But technically letter of the law in the WNBA, if
you steal the ball and then the contact happens after,
if the steel was clean, it's not a foul.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Like I've heard plenty of.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
People talk about this letter of the law and how
you should actually enforce it. I just think ultimately she
hurt her team by not being there, and it was
not an intentional foul. It was a bad luck situation
where incidental contact resulted in Nafisa being out, and I
think it massively impacted I'm I think the Phoenix Mercury
(09:39):
for me might have been a favorite going into Game four,
even with Nafisa in, because of the way they were
playing the way that they had shown up in that
series and the momentum that they had. I think if
not for the injury or the suspension of everything was even,
I still might have said, man, I might have the
mercury in this one.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I hard agree with that. I heard agree with that.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Where I am gonna disagree a little bit. I think
Cheryl not being there definitely had an effect. But I
also know that Eric Tebow has some experience being a
head coach, and so I think, you know, for everything
to be the way it was, I think he did
a pretty damn good job, and I think the team
stepped up obviously in a bunch of ways. Kaylea McBride
(10:21):
setting a playoff career high. Courtney Williams, she's a mid
range menace.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
She was.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
She was a maestro with the mid range. Disagree.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
I agree she missed a lot of shots. She did
miss a lot of shots. There were a lot of
them off who were not missing as shot Jessica Shepherd, Nickbride,
you had players that were effective every time, and I
thought Corney was trying to shoot her way into feeling
it and never quite got there, and unfortunately time ran out.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I think Corny did a great job.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
I think the team rallied, but I think there were
moments where if they had tightened things up. I mean,
their game was all runs right, and the Mercury were consistent.
They had a twelve to one run to start the game,
they had a twenty to nine run to start the
second half. Once things settled down and they were less
in my opinion, disciplined, and it started to look a
(11:11):
little more like they were making it up on the
offensive end instead of running plays and setting up players.
That's when the Murky would get back into it. And
a lot of that, to me was Courtney Williams taking
shots too early in possessions when there weren't defenders down
the floor, when people weren't set up to try to get.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Rebounds and get second chances.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
So not completely infallible, but they were in a really
tough position.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah, And that's the tough thing, right.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
People don't understand when you have a star player, not
only do you have somebody that you can go to,
but everybody understands in that hierarchy kind of where they stand.
And when you have k Back and Courtney and Jess
Shepherd stepping into a role that she wasn't expecting to
have to play.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
You really also have to battle through some of that.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
And while you know, I do think the first quarter
Courtney Williams was nasty, but like you said, once the
game wears on, you have to figure out who's got
the shot in what position and all that good stuff.
And so yeah, in Minnesota just kind of fell apart,
and Phoenix turned it up right when they needed to
talk about a team who takes on We talked about
it last time we all got on air. But Alyssa
(12:08):
Thomas and the way that team has taken on all
of her just gusto and indomitable spirit. I think it's
incredible and watching them run away with that in the
fourth quarter was something to see, something to see.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yeah, we just talked to Callie Finn about the Aces
needing to figure out how to get this particular group together,
gell find their roles, make it work, and maybe that
is a little tougher when you have an established, winning, championship,
winning team, the same way we talked about with the
Liberty right, when you have something that works and then
you lose pieces, sometimes it's actually harder to recover than
when you're a fever team who's been blown up by
(12:46):
injury and brand new to begin with, or in this case,
a Mercury team that has two returning players that we
all think, Wow, a lot of talent there, but it's
gonna take them some time to figure something out. They'll
they'll start to contend maybe next year, and instead they're
un burdened what was the Kamal quote, underburdened by the
realities of the.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Past or something like that.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Right then, they didn't have a past, they didn't have
any expectation, they didn't have roles yet, and so they
were able to slide into and figure out what worked best.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
And man, I mean, do.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Wanna Bonner like that game was like a microcosm macrocosm
for the season. It was like first half she basically
wasn't there, and then when she showed up, things got
a lot better. Kind of was like pre and post
trade for that team too. Before we talk about the
Mercury moving on to the finals and what they looked
like last time versus this time, I do want to
(13:37):
circle back quickly on the officiating because there was an
interesting story on ESPN from Kendra Andrews and let me
read a quick piece from it.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
League sources told the ESPN that their data does not
show any correlation between the rash of recent playoff injuries
and missed calls by officials end quote, and it later
says quote. WNBA Referee Operations reviews data throughout the season
to address what league sources referred to as legitimate criticism
and pinpoint areas officials need to improve on. Through that process,
(14:05):
the Referee Operations Committee found that allegations that officiating errors
have led to more injuries were unfounded. League sources told
ESPN end quote. Now, I just want to say about this.
I think it's very hard to say this foul led
to this injury so much as it is to say
that calling a game in this way leads to the
(14:26):
style of play that makes it more likely for people
to get injured. So you can say that there isn't
a direct causation correlation between this thing and this thing,
But that ignores sort of the larger question of how
tight are you calling it, what are you allowing to happen?
What are you calling and what are you not and
what does that mean for the physicality of the game
(14:47):
and how that ends up resulting in not just direct injury,
but fatigue, bumps, bruises, muscle injuries, things that attendant and
stuff that make it more likely.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
To suffer injuries later.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Like all that's part it decision making too, Risks that
will be taken when a game is called tightly versus risk.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
That won't be taken.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah, like Alana Smith basically throwing her body around for
that entire Game four against the Mercury because she's like,
I'm probably not gonna call it and this is the
last game I got, so she was like, let the
bodies hit the floor, like the entire game.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
I want to zoom out for a second too on
just like the officiating conversation as a whole, because it
has been a main topic for the entire WNBA season,
and honestly, bashing referees is like a favorite American pastime
of a lot of sports leagues in general. And it's
interesting because in a lot of ways, I think you
could argue that officiating has gotten better over time. The
(15:43):
difference is that we have video replay to look at
where they got things wrong, and so I think like
there are two distinctions here, right, the officiating style of
like the physicality that's allowed and then the officiating of
missed calls, like so many other things in women's sports.
I want to make sure that when we're having this conversation,
we are looking at the reason why the current officiating
(16:06):
system in the WNBA exists. And so Emma Bacalari wrote
a good piece for SI a couple of months ago.
We'll linked to it in the show notes, but she
talked about how in the NBA, referees are salaried employees.
WNBA officials, on the other hand, are paid by the
game and they work other games like NCAA or g
League during the rest of the year. The NBA also
(16:28):
has way more stats in reports that are issued to
teams and its officials post game of showing where they
went wrong. In the WNBA doesn't have an equivalent to that.
And then I even remember there was a really good
This American Life episode a few years ago where Michael
Lewis visited this NBA replay center in Secaucus, New Jersey,
(16:48):
and they have all of these screens and they're looking
through every single call in the episode title was called
no Fair, and I was listening to it the entire
time being like, no, this isn't fair, Like why does
the NBA have this in the WNBA, So like we're
always going to have conversations about is the officiating fair?
But I want to have a conversation said about how
could the officiating be improved?
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Yeah, And I think one thing that's come up over
and over this season is that there's way too much
referee turnover in the WNBA because the best refs move
quote unquote up to the NBA because to your point,
salaried appointments, more games, longer.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Seas and all those benefits.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
And it's gosh, it's the thing we've had conversations about
in a million different ways in the sports world. Well,
if you love women's sports, why don't you just work
in women's sports. Well, because there's no pay, there's fewer games,
there's fewer league like right, It's the same across media,
it's the same across coaching. And like every time, the
accusation is if you love something enough, you'll do it,
(17:47):
and then it's like we shouldn't have to make sacrifices.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
And same goes for the quality of officiating.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
There will always be human error, but if the system
is set up for the very best to always move
on and for there to be a constant stream of
new folks, it's gonna be inevitably of a poor equality.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
And I think even a circle back on the suspension
of Cheryl Reeve, and this is I think an area
that my opinion has changed over time. The WNBA should
be incentivized to have people want to be officials and
they can show officials that they care about them. By
suspending Cheryl Reeve, right to not suspend her after she
went after them is to not protect their officials, and
(18:27):
that sends a really bad message exactly well.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
I don't think this is going to be the last
time we talk about officiating, but I hope it doesn't
become a massive point of contention during the WNBA Finals.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Here's hoping for a series.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
That's mostly about the play on the court and not
the calls on the court. Speaking of the finals, Phoenix
Mercury back in them for the first time since twenty
twenty one. I don't remember. Do you guys remember what
happened in twenty twenty one? Did they win or loser?
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Who won? Or what happened? Does anyone remember?
Speaker 4 (18:55):
Okay, Chicago, Okay, Oh that's right.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
How did I totally I forget the Chicago Sky came
from a sixth seed all the way to beat the
Phoenix Mercury and win it all.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
What a time to be alive.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Also wanted to point out quickly, while we're on the
topic of the Phoenix Mercury losing the twenty twenty one finals,
Dana Trossi after that game breaking a door, and that
leading to me giving her a retirement gift of a
bench Indoor County. That says for Detrosi, who always hated doors,
that bench is up and you can visit it, and
today I will be posting. Finally, it took me a
(19:31):
little while because I was on vacation and some other
stuff was going on. But the video of us unveiling
the bench of the slices who came out to see it,
and I'll make sure I put the location in the
video too, So if you want to stroll by and
pay your regards to the Detrosie bench, you can do so.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
But yes, this will be the first time the Mercury
back in.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
The finals since that devastating loss to Candae Parker, then
Colia Copper and the Chicago Sky.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Well, speaking of.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
The Phoenix Mark, I have a philosophical question for the
two of you, which is is something the same if
every component of it has changed?
Speaker 1 (20:10):
This is the ultimate sports question. We're just rooting for laundry, Alex.
We're not really rooting for people. We're rooting for laundry
that gets put on different people every year.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Laundry and nice colors. Yes, right.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
They haven't rebranded their jersey since then.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
I don't think wish they shouldn't.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
But they have done everything else right. When the Mercury
were in the finals in twenty twenty one, Sandy Brondello
was their head coach. They've since gotten a new controlling owner,
a new coach, and then another. Not a single player
from that twenty twenty one roster is still on that team.
And there is this paradox.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
It's called the Ship of Theseus.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
I don't know if you've heard of it, but it
is the philosophical question that says, is an object the
same object after having all of its original components replaced
over time and in some ways the only thing that's
constant is the fans that have stuck with this team.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
And there's an interesting angle of the Dowana Bond, she
who won titles with the Mercury but not that twenty
one team is back. So I don't know if she
would be an original plank in the ship of theseus
that eventually became the twenty twenty one team that then
became the twenty twenty five team, or if that was
a whole different ship.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
But they won the ship, and.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
So that part feels like it's a part of that
old Mercury squad that we imagine that had longer tenured
pieces and had more consistency. This new look team, to
your point, it's a whole different world over there. And
I want to say that I don't know Nate Tibbets personally.
(21:39):
He got a lot of flack for being the highest
paid coach in the league as a man without the experience,
while we watched women not be afforded the same salary,
and that sort of has been conflated with him being
a bad coach or undeserving, And I just want to
say that he did a fantastic job with this team,
(22:00):
and whether or not he was deserving when he took
the job of getting paid that much, he has certainly
made an argument for himself as one of the best
coaches in the league putting together these pieces, making that
trade midway through.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
That's obviously the GM two. But this has been a
really impressive run.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
And I again don't know him, but I kind of
think he should stop being a punchline for something that
was more about a broken system than it was about
him taking the money he was offered.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Maybe it's time.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
All I'm gonna say is shout out to Christy Tolliver,
who is the associate head coach of the Phoenix Mercury,
because I know she's been doing work behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Maybe that's not shaye to Nate.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
That's just saying, while we're throwing shout outs to the
coaching staff, I gotta say shout out to her because
you know, I also think part of being a good
coach is knowing where your weaknesses lie, right, is knowing
what help you need and having somebody like her and
the rest of that staff. You know, Christy has championship
experience for two completely different franchises, right in a completely
different era of the WNBA basketball.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
So shout out to her.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Shameless shameless shout out Christy.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Yeah, And I think right it's one of those things
where you can both be critical about the higher and
also the whole branding it of you know, the girl
dad coming in.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yeah, that didn't right. And again the question is was
that him? Was that them?
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Was that someone in pr saying, oh, you know, it'll
make this better talk about how you have daughters, and
we'll like, please stop doing that.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
Sure, but in the same way that so many other
people are questioned about their lack of experience when they
have far more experience than Nate did coming into this role,
you know, like you have to change with the times
and appreciate what he's got to do for this team.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Oh for sure.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah, it was all fair at the time, and now
I think it's fair to not keep taking shots just
because it's fun.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
Plus, who are we to critique the third longest tenured
coach in.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
The very true? That is very true. He's a staple.
He's a staple, truly.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
All right, let's talk about the other series, because we
got a decisive Game five tonight. The phrase in sports
is the two best words in sports game seven. But
these semi final series only go to five, so we're
gonna go the two best words in semi final series
Game five fever aces. And before we get to our predictions, meche,
I know you wanted to talk about a person who
played a pretty big role in some stars from these
(24:19):
teams getting this far.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
Yeah, how could we not after we just had down
on the show. How could we not say shout out
to Don Staley and her South Carolina program producing two
of the best post players in the best post battle
that I think I've ever seen in the WNBA postseason.
Talking about two pure, like genuine post players and not
(24:41):
giving you any flashy stuff. They might hit it three
every once in a while, maybe, but it's really about
what's happening in the painted area. It's been a masterclass
in so many things in doing your work early and
getting in What I mean by that for folks who
aren't used to basketball terminology, it's getting in position as
early as possible on every single possession.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
And a basketball game has hell of possessions, y'all.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
And this is a punch for punch battle, which we
need to It's a masterclass and running the floor in
footwork in tight spaces. Because both these teams defenses are
now one is focused on Asia Wilson, one is focused
on Aliah Boston, and both of them are having to
figure out puzzles basically on every offensive possession, defensively dominant.
I mean, the next generation of post players who are
(25:28):
watching this matchup are going to be so much better
for having witnessed it.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I really truly believe that.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
So shout out to Don Staley in South Carolina for
turning these two out. Shout out to the post coaches
and everybody who worked with them during that time to
help get them to the WNBA, And then shout out
to Asia and Aliah for putting the work in from
that point forward, because we would not be getting a matchup.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Of this caliber without that work.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
And I think we would be remiss not to mention
it because the the game Cocks out to be loving this.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
You think John Staley is messing with the beads on
her necklace nervously or sitting back relax eating popcorn.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
How is she viewing this battle of two of her faves?
You know it's funny.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
I actually think I saw a tweet from her in
response to like Holly Rowe or somebody else from ESPN saying,
I'm actually pretty calm because regardless of what happens, I
got a game Cock in the finals, So I get it.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
I get it, Mesh literally direct quote I am actually
pretty calm, is what she said.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I can't lose you.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Well, I remember something sometimes good for her.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
I am not at all, and I have nothing in
the fight.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
I am just stressed about it because a game bye
is stressful.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Misha. I'm putting you on the spot based on what
you just said.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
You got to pick one of those dominant post players
and their team who's winning this game.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
I've been putting off writing. I have notes. I have
notes every time we do Big Sisters, and I've been
putting off writing in who I actually think is going
to win because I genuinely do not have a clue.
My gut is telling me Las Vegas. My gut is
telling me that they're gonna pull it out on their
home core.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
My gut is telling me they.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Remember getting punched in the mouth in Game one. They
remember what it felt like, that sour taste in their mouth,
losing on the Indiana Fever's home court. And my gut
tells me that when we shift back to Vegas, that
crowd is no longer going to be in Indiana's favor
and Vegas is gonna have the feed on that. But
Jackie Young, Chelsea Gray, Melissa Smith they gonna have to
(27:22):
pick up the slack and Asia Wilson can not struggle.
Everybody has to be fired in all cylinders. But I'm
gonna go Aces. My gut is telling me Aces, Yes,
that's it.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
Can we talk for a minute about Chelsea Gray because
when they won their titles a couple of years ago,
Chelsea Gray point god just on top of everything. Last
season she ended up being injured playing through some stuff.
What's going on with her this year though, because I
feel like she is still not back to that Chelsea
Gray that we know and love, and I'm not totally
(27:55):
sure what's going on with her and just so curious
what you two are seeing.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Yeah, I mean, one thing about this series and the
matchups is that Chelsea's what a six foot tall point
guard or something like that. The Fever have got Odyssey Simms,
who's tiny and quick. They've got you know, Shae Petty
coming off the bench. They've got Kelsey Mitchell, who gets
switched on to Chelsea Gray. So they've got all these
little tiny guards that Chelsea could shoot over. But in
(28:20):
the course of a five game series where you're going
up and down, you're being pushed to cover a whole
lot of ground offensively and defensively.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
That's a lot. That is a whole lot to.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Ask Chelsea Gray to do, especially when this is no
shade to Dan Evans whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
I love her game.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
I love her as a point guard, but when she
comes in off the bench as a point guard, things
really shift for the Las Vegas Aces. And then if
you don't go to her as the backup, you go
to Jackie Young sometimes bringing the ball up the floor,
it just looks a lot different. So Chelsea has to
carry a lot when she is on the floor. And
I think it's just those matchups are really tough. They're
really tough to exploit.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
I think also it's about ball movement with this team.
When Chelsea Gray is rhythm facilitating and the ball movement
is on for them, she'll get more shooting opportunities because
of where it opens her up. And she also plays
freer and with more swag. And to me that Chelsea
is a better player, not just looks better, but is
(29:18):
more effective. And when their ball movement isn't good and
when their offense as stagnant, she doesn't function as well
in it. None of them do, but more so than
anyone else. I think we see her numbers drop off
when that happens, because she doesn't really create shots for
herself the same way as she creates opportunities for others
(29:39):
and then works her offense out of the flow of
what's going on. And at times, especially in that last game,
they stop flowing. There was very little flow, and I
think she is a rhythm player in that way. That's
at least how I read it.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
I love the question, though, I think you're onto something,
and for them to win, she's got to bring that
twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three five back.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
I think the team needs to come with some swag
because one thing that I've really respected out of the
Fever side, and there was a good story on the
nine newsletter by Tony East about it, who spoke to
some of the Fever players after that last game. Shape
Petty said, nobody has us winning, so we've been doing
this whole series with no pressure, and that's a dangerous
(30:20):
team playing with no pressure, right, They're just coming out
there loose. Tony East wrote about how it was like
maybe two minutes before the half started when they started
to trickle in took a shot or too somebody's dancing,
somebody's just chilling, not even taking shots before the half starts.
That they just felt so at ease, and I feel
like it is sort of to steal a Vegas term.
They're playing with house money, they were counted out, and
because they're playing free and for each other and with
(30:44):
each other, beyond just that, we're all we got, where
all we need. Thing that they've been rallying around, they're
really playing like that, and that to me is clear
versus a Vegas team that when they get stanked and
it feels like a piano drops on their back where
they're like, oh, go go, we should be winning this.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
And so that'll be really interesting to see.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
My gut tells me Asia will not let them lose
at home in a game five, and Becky Hammond will
want to redeem herself for both the timeout that she
called that they didn't have and maybe some roster decisions
that weren't that effective. But I would not be surprised
in the slightest, so much so that I just said
suprised instead of surprised. I would not be surprised at
(31:23):
all if the Fever won, which blows my mind. But
so what's your thick I said it's the Aces. My
gut is the Aces. But I'm saying it's not an
easy one. It is not a Aces should win this.
So they will because the way lea of Boston. If
they can't figure that out and if Asia struggles at all, Ova, Alex,
what your gut telling you other than probably you should
(31:45):
eat breakfast and or lunch, which you probably have had neither.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Of correct and correct that's a read.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
Yeah, I'm going Aces. I have a hard time batting
against the Aces, so much so that I don't bet
at all.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Okay, while we've succeeded in jinxing the ass truly three
for theses knowne for the Fever, just bite everything they've
done in this series.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
They've really earned our respect, just not enough for us
to choose them for the record. I would love to
see an underdog story. I wouldn't mind you, but just
you got your two gay moms, the mercury I've advanced.
Now we need the other half.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Of your earlier show prediction of what would best for
the league. Always great get in big such respect. Yeah,
we got to take a break though, when we come
back vaulting into the upside down.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Welcome back slices. Don't forget.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
We always love to hear from you, so hit us
up on email, good game at Wondermedia network dot com
or leave us a voicemail at eight seven two two
four fifty seventy, and don't forget to subscribe.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Rate and review. It's it's so easy.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Watch a new Netflix bio pick on Carrie's Strug rating
jury's still out till we see this one review. Netflix
is developing a new biopick on Carrie Strug called Perfect,
starring Millie Bobby Brown, who you might remember from Stranger Things,
and Nola Holmes being the youngest person ever selected to
be a unise F Goodwill ambassador, or maybe her marriage
(33:24):
to John bon Jovi's son Jake bon Jovi and their
adoption of a baby girl last month, which was all.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
The rage on the interwebs.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Anyway, the reason the jury's out on this one for
me is because I have a lot of questions about
the angle this movie's going to take. Will it be
sort of a jingoistic puff piece? Remembering the glory of
Strug's viral moment clinching gold for the US and the
ninety six Olympics by completing a vault with a major
ankle injury. Go USA, Or is it going to address
the complicated nature of sports, particularly gymnastics and young athletes
(33:54):
being forced to perform through injury despite the potential long
lasting effects. And what about now deceased coach Bella Coroli
who famously carried Strug to the podium to.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Get her metal. We all remember that vision, right, Well,
we now know that the coaching.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Methods employed by Bella and his wife have been described
by some of his athletes as verbally and psychologically abusive,
and that many instances of sexual abuse perpetrated by disgraced
former USA gymnastics team doctor Larry Nassar occurred at the
Coroli ranch.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Now also worth noting, athletes are.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Notoriously hard to play by narps, non athletic regular people
gymnasts especially such a specific body type. So Strug was
a four foot eight powerhouse olympian. Brown is a five
foot three artiste. But you know, there's always movie magic.
This could be a super powerful examination of Strug's story
and its many layers, or just a made for streaming
(34:46):
nostalgia hit that lets us all feel real good about
a potent sports memory from our youth.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
We'll have to wait and see.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Now it's your turn, y'all, rate and review, Thanks for listening,
See you tomorrow. Good Game Phoenix Mercury and finals of
to be decided tonight, Good Game Wisconsin Volleyball and Kelly Sheffield.
You the fact that fever Aces has to end tonight
and then we'll only have one series left and then
the WNBA season will be over. Good Game with Sarah
(35:14):
Spain is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with
Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzie
and Misha Jones.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan
and Emily Rudder.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Our editors are Emily Rutter, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and
Gianna Palmer.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Our associate producer is Lucy Jones.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Production assistance from Avery Loftus and I'm your Host Sarah
Spain
Host
Sarah Spain
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