August 18, 2025 • 40 mins
Gwen Young, attorney and CEO of the Women Business Collaborative, joins Sarah to share how she became passionate about humanitarian aid relief and social justice, discuss the need for pay disparity headlines around the DC Open tennis tournament, and highlight proven ways to move the needle on sports league contract negotiations. Plus, birthday demands, Sue Bird forever, and never ever trust a fart.
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Take in Rosemonde Kouassi’s late equalizer here
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And watch as fans at Audi Field chant “Free DC” here
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See Esther and Estefanía’s pregnancy announcement post here
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Watch Sue Bird’s statue unveiling here
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See Angel Reese in the AR1 Diamond Dust here
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Watch A’ja Wilson’s hilarious presser moment here
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Leave us a voicemail at 872-204-5070 or send us a note at goodgame@wondermedianetwork.com
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Follow Sarah on social! Bluesky: @sarahspain.com Instagram: @Spain2323
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Follow producer Misha Jones! Bluesky: @mishthejrnalist.bsky.social Instagram:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain where It's my
birthday and I'll pod if I want to. It's Monday,
August eighteenth, and yes, it's my birthday. Slices, Leo, Sun,
Cancer Rising, Scorpio Moon, You figure it out. On today's show,
Gwen Young, attorney and CEO of the Women Business Collaborative,
(00:20):
joins me to talk about how she became passionate about
humanitarian aid relief and social justice, wanting more pay, disparity
headlines around the DC Open tennis tournament, and proven ways
to move the needle on sports league contract negotiations. Pte
WNBPA plus a nonprofit helps crown the world's greatest athlete.
A candid press conference moment that'll crack you up, and
(00:43):
Sue Bird forever. It's all coming up right after this.
Welcome Back, Slices, Happy Monday. Here's what you need to
(01:04):
know today in footy news, NWSL fans got treated to
a blockbuster game on Friday night. The fourth ranked Washington's
Spirit escaped a tough contest against number seven Racing Louisville
with a draw courtesy of an unbelievable goal from forward
Rosamund Kuwassi in the one hundredth minute, Yes, one hundredth
(01:26):
The Spirit trailed two to one, with time quickly running out,
and Kawasi took matters into her own hands, curling one
past the keeper in the tenth minute of second half stoppage.
Time slices the way the energy built up as Kuwasi
dribbled the ball up the field toward the goal. We'll
link to a video of her shot in the show
notes so you can get the full effect. During that
(01:47):
same game, the crowd could be heard chanting free DC.
You might have heard, but Donald Trump declared a state
of emergency in the district on Monday due to crime,
which is actually down in DCD per Metropolitan Police Department data,
and Trump said the administration would take over the city's
police department for at least a month. This has resulted
(02:09):
in an increase in police presence producer mishas seen it
firsthand already, plus a number of rallies and protests, and
the arrests of some local organizers. Attorney General Pambondi also
tried to make DEA administrator Terry Cole a quote emergency
police commissioner end quote, who would assume full control over
the DC police, but the administration halted that effort after
(02:30):
DC's Attorney general filed a lawsuit in federal court. Fans
at the Spirit game on Friday night use their voices
to speak as one against these actions by Trump and company,
and frankly, I had goosebumps watching them do it. We'll
link to a video of the Chance in our show
notes More footing. On Saturday, the San Diego Wave best
(02:55):
at BFC two to one to pass the Orlando Pride
in the NWSL table. San Diego now sits in second
place in the NWSL standings, one point ahead of Orlando
and the Washington Spirit, whose matches this weekend both ended
in draws. The Kansas City Current are still in first
with a hefty eleven point lead over the Wave. More footy,
(03:15):
this time off the field. Congratulations are in order for
Gotham FC's Asterae Gonzales and her partner a Stefania Cruz.
The couple made an adorable pregnancy announcement via Instagram on Saturday,
which included a rotating slideshow of picks of the couple
holding hands as Stefania's baby bump, the ultrasound photos, and more,
all in black and white. It was really cute stuff.
(03:37):
We'll link to a Stair's post in our show notes,
and she might have gotten a little bit of energy
from that announcement. She scored a goal in Gotham FC's
game against the Houston Dash on Sunday, her eleventh of
the season, taken back the lead in the league's Golden
Boot race. That game was suspended due to lightning strikes
in the sixty third minute while tied at a goal apiece,
and resumed after we recorded this. We'll put a link
(03:59):
to the box score in our show notes. More football,
this time with two o's n an A. On Sunday,
the Mexican national flag football team defeated the United States
twenty six twenty one at the World Games to become
back to back title holders. Canada beat Austria thirty eight
to twenty to claim third place. You'll remember flag football
(04:20):
is set to make its Olympic debut at the twenty
twenty eight Summer Games in La to the hardwood, the
WNBA held its first ever regular season game in Canada
on Friday, and the Seattle Storm and Atlanta Dream put
on a show. The contest went down at Rogers Arena
in Vancouver, in front of almost sixteen thousand fans, and
the Storm eked out an eighty to seventy eight dub
(04:42):
behind twenty one points and eleven assists from Skyler Diggins.
The dream entered the fourth quarter in a deficit and
used a huge run to get back into it, leading
the game by five with three minutes left, but the
Storm took back the lead thanks to a heater from Diggins,
who put up thirteen of over twenty one in the
final frame, and Azie Magmagor, who led the way with
the stalwart defensive effort. With the win, the Storm got
(05:03):
back on track after dropping six straight and simultaneously rained
on Atlanta's parade, ending the Dreams six game win streak.
During that WNBA Canada game, the Toronto Tempo expansion franchise
announced that they'll make a couple trips to Vancouver next season.
The Temple will play the majority of home games at
Coca Cola Coliseum in Toronto, but team president Teresa Resh
(05:24):
and general manager Monica Wright Rogers announced that the squad
will hit the court in Vancouver for two regular season
games during the twenty twenty six campaign. Some More w
another statement win for the Minnesota Lynx on Saturday as
they bested the defending champion New York Liberty eighty six
to eighty. Minnesota has now won three straight against the
Libs to make it six wins in a row overall
(05:45):
and wins in ten of their last eleven more w
Sue Byrd is retired, and she's still making history, y'all.
Bird became the first player in WNBA history to be
honored with the statue. On Sunday, the Seattle Storm unveiled
the statue of Bird shooting a layup in her Storm Jersey,
and the legendary point guard explained why at the ceremony.
Take a listen.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
So I did want to start by just telling you
guys why I chose.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
This post, because did you get to choose?
Speaker 4 (06:11):
I was thinking full up, jump shot, you know, passing,
what do I want?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
But some fun little fact about my career that maybe
some of you know, maybe not My very first points
in the WNBA at Kirina as a rookie, We're on aalaya.
My very final points in the WNBA, we're at climated
ledge on alaia.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
So poetic. Bird retired after the twenty twenty two season
as the oldest player in WNBA history to play a
full season at age forty one, also as the league's
career assists leader, as a four time WNBA champion, a
thirteen time All Star, and a five time Olympic gold medalist.
We'll link to a video of the statue unveiling in
our show notes. It's certainly fit for a hooper of
(06:57):
Sue's caliber. Congrat's lady, You've also got to give a
big old shout out to another hooper, Chicago sky forward
Angel Reese, whose first signature Rebox shoe is set to
drop on September eighteenth. Reebok broke the news at an
x post on Thursday with the picture of Reese sitting
on a bench in the shoes and the caption quote
the Angel Reese one diamond Dust made for the Spotlight
(07:19):
available on nine to eighteen end quote. We'll link to
that post in our show notes. The diamond Dust will
be one of three ar one colorways. The other two
are me Bounds, a bright pink version, and Receipts Ready,
a black and white take on the shoe. Reese's shoe
was first slated to drop in twenty twenty six, but
instead it'll be available to purchase months ahead of schedule
(07:39):
for one hundred and twenty bucks. The second year player
hasn't hit the court for the Sky since late July
due to a back injury, but she's clearly still in
the game behind the scenes and we love the shoes.
Speaking of injured superstars, a quick update on Caitlin Clark,
who remains out with the right groin injury she suffered
on July fifteenth on Sunday before the Fever's night tinety
(08:00):
nine to ninety three win over the Connecticut Sun. Feverhead
coach Stephanie White said the hope is that Clark is
back before the end of the regular season. Kelsey Mitchell
picked up the slack in Clark's absence on Sunday with
a thirty eight point performance and Aleiah Boston added a
fourteen point thirteen rebound double double as the Fever rallied
from twenty one points down to get the win over
(08:20):
the Sun. Fever might have to deal with another injury issue, though,
as Sophie Cunningham left that game in the second quarter
with a knee injury and didn't return. We'll give you
an update on her status when we get it. Elsewhere
in the w Asia Wilson is cracking people up with
some press conference comments after she put up a ridiculous
thirty points and sixteen rebounds in the Las Vegas Aces
(08:40):
win over the Phoenix Mercury eighty six eighty three on
Friday night. She and her teammate Chelsea Gray took some
questions while describing the struggles the team has had this
season and the patience and fortitude it's taken to face them.
Wilson had this to say.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
I told myself that for All Star Bray to just
let the game come to me like it is, It's
gonna be what's going to be. And if I try
to harpen or force it because I want this win
so bad for my team, it's like forcing afart.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
How do you get a shit? Yep. She said that
we'll link to the video of the moment too, because
the visuals are even better. Gray's reaction was about the
same as mine. The Ace is played again on Sunday,
beating the Dallas Wings one oh six point eighty seven
to improve to twenty one and fourteen on the season. Finally,
some tennis news. The final for the Cincinnati Open is
(09:28):
tonight at six pm Eastern World number three Egasfontec will
take on world number seven Jasmine Paulini for the title.
All right, selic says, last week we told you about
the college soccer season kicking off, and we want to
give a shout out to the players from our show side,
Minnesota Aurora FC, some of whom are now back in
competing with their college teams. The Aurora has representation at Minnesota, Kansas, Georgia, Iowa, Drake, California,
(09:54):
Baptist Kentucky, Coastal Carolina, Utah State, Portland, Montana, and Colorado State.
If one of those is your school or your squad
that you root for, go find out who the Minnesota
Aurora player is and get to rooting for them. We're
wishing everyone the best of luck. We got to take
a quick break.
Speaker 6 (10:12):
Now hold up a second, slices. This is producer Mish
and before we hit this break, producer Alex and I
when it was Sarah the best of luck in this
next year of life.
Speaker 7 (10:22):
Happy birthday, Sarah. I hope you celebrate today by ripping
off your shirt like Brandy Chastain, doing a backflip like
Sam Kerr, and live streaming all of the festivities like
the US women's national team after the World Cup. The
women's sports community is so lucky to have you a
Nisha and I are too, so enjoy the day.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
That's right, og.
Speaker 6 (10:44):
We know you're basically ancient now, but if you're feeling
up for it, take yourself a little my lords shot
and uh, I don't know, hit a little slow mode
dance moment like Diana Tarazi after the Tokyo Olympics.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
That is, if your back's feeling okay when we come back.
My conversation with Gwen Young sit tight joining us now.
She's the CEO of the Women Business Collaborative, an alliance
(11:18):
working to achieve equal position, pay, and power for women
in business. A visiting scholar at the Elliott School of
International Affairs at George Washington University. As an attorney, she's
worked as a professional advocate for women and human rights
in corporate law settings, and alumna of Smith College, Harvard
and Martin Luther King Junior School of Law, UC Davis.
Plus like eighty other schools, it's Gwen Young. Hi, Gwen,
(11:41):
how are you? I'm good? Are we currently pursuing any
other degrees or are we taking a break on school
for now?
Speaker 3 (11:46):
We're taking a break.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
We're trying to stay involved in advice, but we're always learning,
but not at schools.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
It's always a joy to just get to pick through
like eleven different places of education for the bio. It's
very impressive. I want to talk about how you got started,
because you've spent your life basically working in human rights
advocacy from Kenya to Kosovo, Bosnia, to and Gola, Columbia,
to dar For and all over the place. So tell
me about growing up. How did you become passionate about
humanitarian relief and social justice.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Well, I grew up in Boulder, Colorado, which is typically
a place where sort of social justice and really sort
of caring about the world. But I always wanted to
go and see other cultures, see how we could get
along with other people, and see how we could sort
of always keep peace and justice. And when I got
to the Kennedy School at Harvard, I had some great
professors who said, you know, Africa is the continent to be.
Here's where a lot of innovation and growth is happening.
(12:36):
And I said, this is where I want to go.
And so I when I graduated my master's, I went
straight to Malawi, which no one had ever heard of.
In front, one of my friends said, are you going
to MAUI? Here's a surfboard.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
But I went over there and.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Learned so much about how we're similar and how we're different,
and how we could figure out how to kind of
build prosperous you know, communities and economies.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
What skill sets do you think you have that make
you good for this work?
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Well, first and foremost, I'm a people person. So I
love people, and so that allows me to really connect,
learn and listen and learn languages and so forth. Second
of all, and I'm very passionate about equity and justice,
So I want everyone to have equal opportunity when everyone
had the same things. I have the same opportunities that
I have, and I think that sort of nothing should
stand in people's way, right, So I want to make
(13:20):
sure people have education and healthcare and food. And I'm
you know, I work really hard and I'm really resilient.
So you know, I get up and run every morning,
and I get out and social with people, and then
I work a really hard day and it all kind
of bleeds together, and so that allows me to really
get a lot done, but also learn a lot at
the same time and figure out how am I going
to solve that problem?
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Because I'm a problem solver.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
I love that. Where are you now? Where are you based?
Speaker 4 (13:44):
I'm in the DC area, based in Arlington, Virginia. So
that's where I've been for ten years now.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
All right. One of my producers is DMV, so I
can hear her cheering in the background for that general area.
So you've done all this incredible work across all these
different continents, and I wonder where and when you started
to see women's sports fitting into your mission.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
I would say pretty early on in my career, and
it was probably probably starting in Mozambique, but really kind
of when I went up to West Africa. So starting
in Mozambique, what I started to see was that sports
were away, that you could bring kids that had suffered
from war together to do something fun and to learn
how to interact and to learn how to build trust
(14:25):
after societies have been sort of ravaged by war. When
I was in Senegal, which is where I was before
I came to the DMV, we actually had the MBA come,
so we had some you know, US sports teams come
work with sports teams in Senegal. And Senegal is a
very sporty society, and what I started to see was
it wasn't just men that were doing the sports, it
was the women as well. So I started to really
(14:46):
realize that getting involved with men's sports gave men and
women a place to interact, but also give women the
skills of confidence, leadership, you know, competition, everything that sports
gives you to grow and empower yourself. And it was
really giving go roles that and I started to realize
here's an opportunity to really get women involved in sports
and involved in the business community and economic empowerment and
(15:08):
everything that comes with giving them equal opportunity.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
At espnW, they've done this program for a number of years,
Global Sports Mentoring Program in connection with the Secretary of
State in the US government. And one of the things
that's been so fascinating to learn from all the different
participants from all over the globe is which countries are
actively invested and interested in their women and girls participating
in sport, understanding the connection between that and economic success,
(15:32):
higher GDP on average, all the other things that come
with women who are empowered, like you said, and confident,
and the countries that are not, and the women from
those countries that understand the power that there is in
helping bring up young girls in a space different from
the one that they grew up in. And I wonder,
across all the different countries in which you've worked, have
you noticed a difference in the success of women in
(15:55):
other spaces based on whether or not they were invited
to participate in sport.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
We have, and in all the countries I've seen, including
the United States.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Right.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
So, but when we're talking about the overseas pieces, I said,
you know, in Someengle I noticed that women were playing sports,
which also translated into many of the ministers, the Minister
of livestock, minister of health. They were women, so higher
up in the government, but also business owners. And in fact,
we and Senegal with Dhlberg Consulting, set up a loan
program for women businesses, not micro loans for small businesses,
(16:25):
but loans for women owned businesses because there were so many.
So you started to see them involved in both civil
society and the government, but in businesses as well. And
so you direct correlation in as you said, girls in sports,
in peace, in the community, in peace treaties being signed
and lasting longer, women rising into government, but women rising
into business. And then we know here in the United
(16:46):
States right that ninety four percent of women in the
csuite have played sports, and WBCs some recent research that
shows that ten percent of the women CEOs in the
russell SMP fortune and private companies have played college sports
are beyond. So you can see a really direct link
between those qualities and sort of leadership in business and
(17:07):
leadership in the government.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Yeah, it's very clearly not lip service when we talk
about the qualities of sport that carry over into business.
We do presentations through espnW again called campus conversations, going
to schools talking to the varsity athletes about how to
translate the skills that they're getting from their sports onto
a resume. Because it isn't as easy as simply saying
I did this internship, but it is about saying, you know, leadership,
(17:29):
working together, focusing on one goal, hard work, adversity, all
the other stuff.
Speaker 6 (17:34):
I know.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
You recently got fired up about issues of pay equity
around the DC Open tennis tournament. We mostly saw headlines
about Venus Williams making her triumphant return to the court
at age forty five and winning some matches, but you
wanted headlines about the pay disparity at the event. So
tell me more about why that event in particular got
your your hackles raised.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
Well, I think that event in particular is one of
the very few where there is a pay disparity in
the prize money.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
It's quite large. It's a two point three disparity.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
Between the men and the women's whereas as you know,
all the Grand Slams and the others are are more equitable.
What does you know inspire me or where I think
we want to watch What is happening is what the
WTA is doing by twenty twenty seven and twenty thirty
three to close that pay gap and to bring that
(18:21):
pay gap together. But it is one of the few
because some of the other tournaments, you know, do have
this pay equity.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
But the mood of all open here in d C.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
It's that two point three, you know, disparity and difference,
and it's a joint effort.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
It's important two.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Point three million or is that a percentage two.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Point three times larger? So the men's are about the
men's purse is about two point one and the women
is nine hundred and twenty two thousand, But it is
also a joint ATP and WTA event, So you know,
I know the WTA is working towards that they've got
a plan for twenty twenty seven, twenty thirty three, and
I know that, you know, we really need to look
(18:57):
at the profit sharing model from the ATP, But we
know that they're there's like Mark and and others that
have talked about this and really are committed to rectifying this.
And I think we only need to work together to
call for this.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yeah, because tennis is seen as one of the few
sports with pay equity, you know, obviously at the highest levels,
from Billyging and King years and years ago to Venus
Williams at Wimbledon. In so many spaces, it's been sort
of the leader for other women in sport to ask
for and demand what they what they deserve. Why do
you think there are still some tournaments and events that
(19:30):
don't abide by that understanding that the overwhelming public opinion
is that it should exist, and there is I think
a lot of public pressure towards the spaces that are
not offering equal pay.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Part of it is I think you have to look
at the price structure and how the tournaments are structured.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Right.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
So if it is structured with the profit sharing or
you know model, then that is slightly different than maybe
some of the other tournaments. So part of it is
we have to look at how this is structured. And
that's why I think the WTAS made the commitment. They're saying,
give us some time because it isn't just that one
weeker matches or the one set of matches that the
city open, but it's tied to the broader sort of
(20:09):
preseason stuff. So if it's been profit sharing all along,
then we really have to figure out how the women's
profit sharing is brought along or you have to change
the structure. So like we know in the business sector,
you know, you have to look at the structure. You
have to look at what you can change and make
those changes and make that commitment. So what I like
to see is the fact that, as you said, people
are calling for it. They're asking for it from the viewers,
(20:31):
you know, to the participants, to people like Billy Jane
King and the Women's Sports Foundation and others, and that's
what's really going to make that change, because it's got
to be the consumers, the viewers, the investors that are
really saying this is unacceptable, and let's look at how
we can restructure this so there will be equal prize
money and at least not two point three times larger
than the women's. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
I mean it feels like across sports for such a
long time, there has been the argument of, well, the
men make more money, so they should get more money,
and yet we never really dig into the systemic and
structural reasons why those profits are greater on one end,
whether that's you know, like really obvious things like a
(21:13):
lack of promotion, a lack of TV time, a lack
of marketing, a lack of investment, all that other stuff,
to smaller level stuff like whether it's US soccer saying oh,
we sold out of our jerseys in twenty four hours,
and you're like, you didn't make enough. Then you're missing
all that money. And then later on when you say
the women didn't make as much money as the men,
it's because you decided upfront that there wasn't enough demand
(21:33):
to make more than that, and you failed to capitalize
on the demand. So I think what you mentioned is
the understanding of the larger systems. How do you, having
seen it across so many different kinds of spaces, figure
out how to take the systemic and macro issues that
we should be zooming out and looking at to fix
(21:54):
that ultimately caused the micro issues that we want to address.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Well, I think it's a couple of things, right.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
So, as you just mentioned for those that don't know,
sports is structured differently, right, and so your revenue is
media rights, it's ticketing, it's sponsorship, it's merchandise. It's a
lot of different pieces that go into the how much money,
which is slightly different than somebody like you know IBM
or Salesforce, and Salesforce did a very good job of
rectifying a pay gap. But I think where there's similarities is,
(22:20):
you know, you have to have you know, senior leader
support for that. You have to have metrics and transparency.
You know, what is the money, what is the demand? Right,
and you have to you have to be able to
report that out and be transparent about this is what
it looks like. This is where there are discrepancies. And
so I think those that senior leadership commitment that metrics
and transparency, there needs to be a formal commitment, you know,
(22:42):
for equal pay, it's got to be we say in
a lot of places publish your pay bands, right, the
US government does that. What's your payment? Let everybody see that.
You know, we do live in a culture in the
United States where we don't talk about how much we make.
You know, you and I don't naturally have that conversation.
But having that, having a conversation over paybans about what
people make and understanding the business model, I think is
incredibly important. On the positive side, because I am definitely
(23:04):
a glass half full person. This is a moment in
time where there's the WNBA doing the collective bargaining agreement.
But importantly from the systemic pieces that we were talking about,
viewership is merchandise sales are up. People have confidence in
women athletes, which means that impacts brands and sponsorships. And
women athletes are very active in social media, and people
(23:26):
tend to tend to respond to that. So people are
watching Alona Maher and Rugby right, very active social media presence,
and they're aligned with those brands, right, And we watch
what happened with Target in a different way earlier this year,
and so the consumers are having to say and because
viewership is up, and because people are interested in ticket,
sales are up, there is a moment in time to
say and that can help us translate and change the
(23:47):
system to really look at equity. Major League Soccer led
the way you know, and we're working across kind of
the different leagues in the different sports. Tennis, as you said,
is a certain point and in some ways the Mudhaballa
in the city opens kin of the fewer places because
there's more pay equity across the different Grand Slams and
other types of matches. So I think we have a
(24:07):
moment in time to look at the commitment, look at
the data, look at the evidence, Have the consumers call
for it, have a social call and movement for that,
have the athletes themselves. But I also think the men's
leagues can be stepping in and they are in certain
places to have these conversations. They're more established business models.
But how do we talk about this and how do
we look at it to call for equity and pay.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yeah, and sports is an interesting place because we actually
not always there isn't full transparency, especially in some of
the more nascent women's leagues, but we do tend to
know the pay bans, the pay ranges that people make
for doing those sports. In comparison to their male counterparts
in ways that we don't often have transparency for in
the business world because we don't need to address a
salary cap or a certain amount of money that you're
(24:50):
allowed to spend, which we do have in the sports world.
Now you mentioned leadership. Obviously more women in leadership makes
a big difference in what kind of impact the women
in that business or organization, What it has on how
they're treated, how they're paid, how they're advanced. What do
we do when leadership isn't interested in having these conversations,
(25:10):
when leadership is pushing back on the importance of getting
to more equitable pay, How do we have conversations with
folks who tell us this is what's happening where I
work and not give them the simple answer of go
work somewhere else.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Well, I think it has I mean, this is always
the argument for women's equality inequity. Right is first, I
think you have to talk to the people who don't
agree with you, right, because you have to figure out
where that is. But I think with the leadership that
doesn't those conversations need to happen, right, and there needs
to be metrics and what we call the business case. Right,
These are the reasons why there needs to be you know,
social pressure coming from within the organization and outside of
(25:46):
the organization. But more importantly is there needs to be
a plan like this is how we're going to get there.
And I think working with leadership and working with the
people around leadership to convince them to see what changes
can be made and to be able to move the
pieces that we can move, right, because I think that's
where it comes out. Successful companies, successful pay equity does
come from leaders that are committed to that.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
And in the business world, that's the board.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
You know, the board will come in and say, if
this leader is not committed to this, but we see
this as important, that's when there will be a change
in leadership. As the extreme example, but the board is
usually the one that drives that pressure. So we need
to think about the investors, you know, who's calling for
what they're calling for? Look at Alli Financial when they
came in and funded women's soccer. What are we asking for?
What are we saying when we're going to invest And
(26:31):
that's where we can start to make both a difference
but also hold those leaders accountable but work with them.
There needs to be plans, ways to make this happen. Examples.
Europe's an example broadly of maybe more like women's basketball
being being you know in Europe, maybe paying a bit
more money people play on the off season, women's soccer overseas,
you know, things like that. To look at how that
(26:52):
happened and use those examples and provide the path forward.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
You know, the push from WNBA players to increase their
cut of league revit via a new CBA has gotten
a lot of headlines. What are some proven approaches to
moving the needle on contract negotiations?
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Well, I think.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
Proven taxics are obviously good negotiation data and evidence. So
and then you hear me say that over and over
because we are in a stage where there is a
lot of a lot of data and we have with
the WNBA this moment in time conversations about viewership, revenue, sponsorships.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
So I think that's one thing.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
I think it's using the advocates and the validators that
you can to come in and say this is important.
I think it's and it's negotiating strongly. I think those
are some of the best things.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
But I think the.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Transparency and that's where your podcast and the news and
the media talking about this, covering this, letting the viewers know,
letting people know exactly what is happening, helps with those negotiations. Actually,
it helps really lay out what's happening and gives the
leaders and the people negotiating a better chance to say,
this is what the consumers want, right, this is what
the viewers want, this is what the athletes want, this
(27:59):
is what we need to keep this, this moment alive
and the momentum moving with the increase in revenue, the
increase in viewership and increase in sponsorships.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Obviously, public shame is another proven tactic that works, whether
that comes via nudges like the T shirts that the
ladies wore at the WNBA all start, you know, pre pregame,
whether that's we've talked to folks that were helpful in
pushing forward the Tour de France fem and using public
figures in England to make public statements about needing to
(28:30):
bring the race back and making it something that women
could compete in again. And I wonder for you where
you see a line between the kind of public shame
that encourages and the kind that makes folks angry and
less likely to want to come to the table and negotiate.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
So probably not surprising to you. I don't actually call
it public shame. I call it sort of validators and influencers.
I call it like the Taylor Swift effect, like get
out and vote.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
That sounds nice, right, so nice, But it is.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
The T shirts, right, it is the T shirts rather
and it's it's it's the T shirts, it's the publics,
it's the social media posts, and it's saying, you.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Know, we need this, right.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
And I think when the public comes and says this
is what we want and social media is our tool
right now, right and says this is what we need,
and when you have people stand up and say it's
who says it, it's the numbers. I think in the
women's space, it's just as important for men to stand
up as it is for women to stand up and
say this is important, this is what we need because
(29:25):
that commitment allows a league, a team, a lawyer, a negotiator,
you know, a player's association right to have those conversations,
like the Tennis Association, the Women's Tennis Association to have
those conversations. And so I think it's incredibly important and
it means watching it means getting on the news, being
on shows like this. I think that's what really drives
(29:46):
drives people's momentum and fire, but also educates those that
do not know. We're unaware of either of the facts
what's going on, or how they can how they can
make a difference.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Do you have an example from your work in other
countries where you at first we're tasked with fixing a
problem that felt sort of untenable, or working with someone
that felt like they would never come and meet you
in the middle or come to your side, and a
surprising way that that actually changed, or a surprising way
that you found to get them to negotiate.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
You know, I have a lot of examples from my career.
I think of the one of the might sound surprising
in the ramost sports, but overseas it would be like, well,
come see come to Senegal, come to Columbia, Come to Coastvo.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
See what happened.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
See the strength the Balkans, the women drove the peace agreement.
Come meet these women, Come see what they're doing. So
one is it. I think seeing and being on the
frontline so will be a part of it. Come to
the trial, come to see what the women's Business Association
is doing right. So I think that's one thing. You know.
The second thing is also you know, I never stopped right.
(30:51):
So I worked for a group called Doctors out Boarders,
and I said for a long time and I was like,
here's what we need to look at. And there was
some pushback initially, and I was like, I'm not going
to stop, and so I got everybody. I went and
talked to everybody from the patients to the doctors, to
the nurses, to the intake people, to the drivers, and
then I put together, here's what we need to do.
Here's the data that shows this is what we need
to do, and went to senior leadership and went sort
(31:14):
of everywhere and said, and this person says we should
do it, and this senior leader over here says we
should do it.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
But I also believe in getting people in the room right.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
The more conversations we can have, the more we can
agree to disagree, but talk through the issues. I think
that's incredibly important and hear each other because it's not
going to go away, and women's sports are here to stay.
The money is here to stay, the investment is here
to stay, and so the treatment needs to be you
know equity and equality of opportunity.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
I love that you said come and see, because that's
what I'm always yelling about on this show, is that
I wish the very highest top executives at brands, media companies,
et cetera. Would be showing up at things like WNBA
All Star, Women's Final, four, NWSL Championship, WNBA Finals, all
these different spaces and actually see the the passion from
(32:01):
the fans, the investment from the brands who are showing up,
and the size and scope and scale of what we're
doing now in the women's sports space, because I think
some of them have such antiquated ideas about what it
looks like, and just in recent years, I think women's
sports fans have finally been able to actually appreciate what
it's been like for men's sports fans for years when
they show up at something like WNBA All Star and
(32:23):
they see all the parties and events and activations and
merch and celebrities and things like that, and the business
folks who aren't coming to see are really behind on
understanding it, and then they're making their deals or they're
making their pitches based on a reality that no longer exists.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
I totally agree with you. And I was thinking.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
I went to the She Believes conference in LA with Deloitte,
and I thought, I looked around the road was great.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
It's Brandy Chestain, It's Billy Jean King, it's Michelle Kang.
We're all in the room.
Speaker 4 (32:47):
We're all having these great conversations. There's contributions to Major
League Soccer there in the room.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
And I'm looking around the room like, where are the businesses.
Where are they to hear?
Speaker 4 (32:55):
What's going on? What's happening? We had the ad council there,
where are they to understand? And really what's going on?
And to your point, home do a game?
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Right?
Speaker 4 (33:03):
When I went to Audifield and watched the Spirit play
a couple of years ago, what you see there convinces
you that this is a viable business model and that
fans are interested in that there is things too. And plus,
this is the most competitive, smart group of women that
I have met, whether that's in men's sports or women's sports.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Right, yeah, all right, last question for you. I'm just
curious about the Women Business Collaborative. You have a ton
of different folks from different spaces coming together. How did
this start and ultimately how do you figure out it's
such a big cost to say, how do we achieve
equal position, pay and power for women in business? What
kind of business, what industry, at what level highest or lowest,
(33:42):
or front office or starting out? So how did it
start and what kind of helps you decide where your
focus should be at any given time.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
So it started in March of twenty nineteen, and it
was twenty five organizations that work on women's leadership that
came together and said, look, we were much stronger together.
If we do this collaboratively, advocate together, share data, share
best practices, speak as one voice, we will make a
difference for women's leadership in business. You know, as we've
developed over the past six years, we've got on an
(34:12):
industry focused a little bit about what's going on in
the world. Right in sports is the perfect example. You know,
about a year ago we were looking at it and
I said, look at all of these women that are
involved in sports, either they own a sports team, Allison Fister,
VP at the Celtics, look at all of these women,
Look at Shila Johnson, Michelle King, Sint Marshall, They're all here.
(34:32):
This is an industry when we don't understand a lot
about let's learn about this industry, and somebody said it's
like the tech industry where there are a lot of
women in the beginning, but I also said, this is
an industry that's growing, and we're looking at models from
Major League in soccer around pay equity, so we were
able to go, let's do a deep dive here and
really take a look at it. The other group that
we support and is always a constant is women owned
(34:54):
businesses and being able to support not just the C
suite executives, as you say, it's women own businesiness is
and we deliberately use the term all women right because
we want to make sure we're not just talking about
CEOs or we're not just talking about women entrepreneurs.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
We're talking about all women in the workplace.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
And broadly, we choose sort of based on what's going
on in the business world, what the companies are doing,
and what our partners are doing, and because we're a
collaborative and a collective, we're able to kind of listen
to everybody and go, let's do a focus on corporate
purpose or let's do a focus on women owned businesses
and really build out those strong partnerships in one year,
we trained one hundred women in cybersecurity training and worked
on cybersecurity and AI issues across all industries. And so
(35:33):
it's just being opportunistic, I think is part of it
about meeting people where they are, but also meeting where
there's business opportunity. And right now women's sports is one
of those areas. But also the women that are leading
in men's sports is equally is important. So that's really
a part of our what we call are in the
Arena initiative and our focus. And as I said, I'm
just going to I can't forget to say this. We
started this podcast talking about how this is pathways for
(35:56):
girls into careers, empowerment and job opportunity. And the skills
in sports, or the skills in working in the sports
industry are transferable to the energy industry, to the insurance industry.
So there is an opportunity here to really create those
pathways and allow women to move in and out of
their careers and in and out of their passions.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah, and I think obviously one of the biggest things
about sports is that the job is public facing, the inspiration,
the representation, the way that these women athletes inspire, empower educate, etc.
Sets them apart from other leaders in the sense of
(36:38):
how big a range of the people watching them and
experiencing their work is compared to someone who's in an
office doing great work, doing huge things, creating policy, doing
stuff that will eventually trickle down and affect millions. But
it's the women on our TVs that are doing these
things that we witness every day that I think give
permission to so many other girls and women to speak up,
to demand more task for what they deserve and all
(37:00):
those other things. So I love how much of a
recognition there is that the women's sports space is leading
the way in ways that can be educational for other
spaces as well. And I love that you see that
because you very clearly bring a ton of expertise and
again education and life experience to the space and applying
it to women's sports can only help this thing that
(37:20):
we love so much. So thanks Gwenn, and thanks for
the time.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
Thank you, Sarah.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
Thank you so much forasing that word inspirational, because that's
I think why we're all here, So thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Thanks so much to Gwen for joining us. We got
to take another break when we come back. What I
want for my birthday from you slices. Welcome back slices.
We love that you're listening, but we want you to
get in the game every day too, So here's our
(37:53):
good game play of the day. I'd like a little
birthday present from all of you, hopefully an easy one.
Do something extra nice for someone today. Buy the person
behind you in line their coffee, Volunteer at your local
animal shelter or maybe a soup kitchen. Gather up some
of those socks, t shirts and shoes you never wear
anymore and donate them, or give some money to a
(38:13):
cause that matters to you. The world kind of sucks
right now, but we can always create a little light.
So if you remember to do something nice today, send
a note my way and let me know it'll make
my birthday just a little bit brighter. We always love
to hear from you, so hit us up on email
good game at wondermedianetwork dot com or leave us a
voicemail at eight seven two two o four fifty seventy
(38:34):
and don't forget to subscribe, Rate and review. It's easy.
Watch piano bars rating ten out of ten songs we
all know the words to review for my Birthday. I
threw yet another epic costume party this past Saturday. This
time it was a sequel to a previous bash. Back
in twenty twenty one, I invented the Holiday do Over Day,
(38:56):
during which we celebrated every major holiday we missed to
the twenty twenty COVID show Down, all in one day,
in a different location for each, with a different costume
for each. Now that year we did Saint Patrick's Day,
Fourth of July, Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's. Well.
Do Over Day came back this year by popular demand,
and this time we did Opening Day, Sinko Tomo Pride,
(39:19):
Christmas in July, Labor Day, and New Year's. Every single
costume had to fit in one backpack that we carried
around all day, and we went to different stops for
each one. Now Labor Day was supposed to be a
party on the beach, but thunderstorms forced a pivot to
a nearby piano bar that we basically took over, about
forty of us strong in the wackiest, weirdest costumes, singing
(39:40):
and dancing along to every song. At one point I
was scream singing Pink Pony Club next to a hot dog,
a pickle, and a lobster. When in doubt, y'all go
to the piano bar. Now it's your turn to rate
and review. Give us five stars, say something nice about us.
Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow. Good game, Gwen, Good game,
(40:02):
Sue Bird. You losing your voice because you were scream
singing Pink Pony Club next to a pickle. Good Game
with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports production in
partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find
us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers
(40:24):
are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive producers are
Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutterer. Our
editors are Emily Rutterer, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and Gianna Palmer.
Our associate producer is Lucy Jones. Production assistance from Avery
Loftis and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain where It's my
birthday and I'll pod if I want to. It's Monday,
August eighteenth, and yes, it's my birthday. Slices, Leo, Sun,
Cancer Rising, Scorpio Moon, You figure it out. On today's show,
Gwen Young, attorney and CEO of the Women Business Collaborative,
(00:20):
joins me to talk about how she became passionate about
humanitarian aid relief and social justice, wanting more pay, disparity
headlines around the DC Open tennis tournament, and proven ways
to move the needle on sports league contract negotiations. Pte
WNBPA plus a nonprofit helps crown the world's greatest athlete.
A candid press conference moment that'll crack you up, and
(00:43):
Sue Bird forever. It's all coming up right after this.
Welcome Back, Slices, Happy Monday. Here's what you need to
(01:04):
know today in footy news, NWSL fans got treated to
a blockbuster game on Friday night. The fourth ranked Washington's
Spirit escaped a tough contest against number seven Racing Louisville
with a draw courtesy of an unbelievable goal from forward
Rosamund Kuwassi in the one hundredth minute, Yes, one hundredth
(01:26):
The Spirit trailed two to one, with time quickly running out,
and Kawasi took matters into her own hands, curling one
past the keeper in the tenth minute of second half stoppage.
Time slices the way the energy built up as Kuwasi
dribbled the ball up the field toward the goal. We'll
link to a video of her shot in the show
notes so you can get the full effect. During that
(01:47):
same game, the crowd could be heard chanting free DC.
You might have heard, but Donald Trump declared a state
of emergency in the district on Monday due to crime,
which is actually down in DCD per Metropolitan Police Department data,
and Trump said the administration would take over the city's
police department for at least a month. This has resulted
(02:09):
in an increase in police presence producer mishas seen it
firsthand already, plus a number of rallies and protests, and
the arrests of some local organizers. Attorney General Pambondi also
tried to make DEA administrator Terry Cole a quote emergency
police commissioner end quote, who would assume full control over
the DC police, but the administration halted that effort after
(02:30):
DC's Attorney general filed a lawsuit in federal court. Fans
at the Spirit game on Friday night use their voices
to speak as one against these actions by Trump and company,
and frankly, I had goosebumps watching them do it. We'll
link to a video of the Chance in our show
notes More footing. On Saturday, the San Diego Wave best
(02:55):
at BFC two to one to pass the Orlando Pride
in the NWSL table. San Diego now sits in second
place in the NWSL standings, one point ahead of Orlando
and the Washington Spirit, whose matches this weekend both ended
in draws. The Kansas City Current are still in first
with a hefty eleven point lead over the Wave. More footy,
(03:15):
this time off the field. Congratulations are in order for
Gotham FC's Asterae Gonzales and her partner a Stefania Cruz.
The couple made an adorable pregnancy announcement via Instagram on Saturday,
which included a rotating slideshow of picks of the couple
holding hands as Stefania's baby bump, the ultrasound photos, and more,
all in black and white. It was really cute stuff.
(03:37):
We'll link to a Stair's post in our show notes,
and she might have gotten a little bit of energy
from that announcement. She scored a goal in Gotham FC's
game against the Houston Dash on Sunday, her eleventh of
the season, taken back the lead in the league's Golden
Boot race. That game was suspended due to lightning strikes
in the sixty third minute while tied at a goal apiece,
and resumed after we recorded this. We'll put a link
(03:59):
to the box score in our show notes. More football,
this time with two o's n an A. On Sunday,
the Mexican national flag football team defeated the United States
twenty six twenty one at the World Games to become
back to back title holders. Canada beat Austria thirty eight
to twenty to claim third place. You'll remember flag football
(04:20):
is set to make its Olympic debut at the twenty
twenty eight Summer Games in La to the hardwood, the
WNBA held its first ever regular season game in Canada
on Friday, and the Seattle Storm and Atlanta Dream put
on a show. The contest went down at Rogers Arena
in Vancouver, in front of almost sixteen thousand fans, and
the Storm eked out an eighty to seventy eight dub
(04:42):
behind twenty one points and eleven assists from Skyler Diggins.
The dream entered the fourth quarter in a deficit and
used a huge run to get back into it, leading
the game by five with three minutes left, but the
Storm took back the lead thanks to a heater from Diggins,
who put up thirteen of over twenty one in the
final frame, and Azie Magmagor, who led the way with
the stalwart defensive effort. With the win, the Storm got
(05:03):
back on track after dropping six straight and simultaneously rained
on Atlanta's parade, ending the Dreams six game win streak.
During that WNBA Canada game, the Toronto Tempo expansion franchise
announced that they'll make a couple trips to Vancouver next season.
The Temple will play the majority of home games at
Coca Cola Coliseum in Toronto, but team president Teresa Resh
(05:24):
and general manager Monica Wright Rogers announced that the squad
will hit the court in Vancouver for two regular season
games during the twenty twenty six campaign. Some More w
another statement win for the Minnesota Lynx on Saturday as
they bested the defending champion New York Liberty eighty six
to eighty. Minnesota has now won three straight against the
Libs to make it six wins in a row overall
(05:45):
and wins in ten of their last eleven more w
Sue Byrd is retired, and she's still making history, y'all.
Bird became the first player in WNBA history to be
honored with the statue. On Sunday, the Seattle Storm unveiled
the statue of Bird shooting a layup in her Storm Jersey,
and the legendary point guard explained why at the ceremony.
Take a listen.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
So I did want to start by just telling you
guys why I chose.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
This post, because did you get to choose?
Speaker 4 (06:11):
I was thinking full up, jump shot, you know, passing,
what do I want?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
But some fun little fact about my career that maybe
some of you know, maybe not My very first points
in the WNBA at Kirina as a rookie, We're on aalaya.
My very final points in the WNBA, we're at climated
ledge on alaia.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
So poetic. Bird retired after the twenty twenty two season
as the oldest player in WNBA history to play a
full season at age forty one, also as the league's
career assists leader, as a four time WNBA champion, a
thirteen time All Star, and a five time Olympic gold medalist.
We'll link to a video of the statue unveiling in
our show notes. It's certainly fit for a hooper of
(06:57):
Sue's caliber. Congrat's lady, You've also got to give a
big old shout out to another hooper, Chicago sky forward
Angel Reese, whose first signature Rebox shoe is set to
drop on September eighteenth. Reebok broke the news at an
x post on Thursday with the picture of Reese sitting
on a bench in the shoes and the caption quote
the Angel Reese one diamond Dust made for the Spotlight
(07:19):
available on nine to eighteen end quote. We'll link to
that post in our show notes. The diamond Dust will
be one of three ar one colorways. The other two
are me Bounds, a bright pink version, and Receipts Ready,
a black and white take on the shoe. Reese's shoe
was first slated to drop in twenty twenty six, but
instead it'll be available to purchase months ahead of schedule
(07:39):
for one hundred and twenty bucks. The second year player
hasn't hit the court for the Sky since late July
due to a back injury, but she's clearly still in
the game behind the scenes and we love the shoes.
Speaking of injured superstars, a quick update on Caitlin Clark,
who remains out with the right groin injury she suffered
on July fifteenth on Sunday before the Fever's night tinety
(08:00):
nine to ninety three win over the Connecticut Sun. Feverhead
coach Stephanie White said the hope is that Clark is
back before the end of the regular season. Kelsey Mitchell
picked up the slack in Clark's absence on Sunday with
a thirty eight point performance and Aleiah Boston added a
fourteen point thirteen rebound double double as the Fever rallied
from twenty one points down to get the win over
(08:20):
the Sun. Fever might have to deal with another injury issue, though,
as Sophie Cunningham left that game in the second quarter
with a knee injury and didn't return. We'll give you
an update on her status when we get it. Elsewhere
in the w Asia Wilson is cracking people up with
some press conference comments after she put up a ridiculous
thirty points and sixteen rebounds in the Las Vegas Aces
(08:40):
win over the Phoenix Mercury eighty six eighty three on
Friday night. She and her teammate Chelsea Gray took some
questions while describing the struggles the team has had this
season and the patience and fortitude it's taken to face them.
Wilson had this to say.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
I told myself that for All Star Bray to just
let the game come to me like it is, It's
gonna be what's going to be. And if I try
to harpen or force it because I want this win
so bad for my team, it's like forcing afart.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
How do you get a shit? Yep. She said that
we'll link to the video of the moment too, because
the visuals are even better. Gray's reaction was about the
same as mine. The Ace is played again on Sunday,
beating the Dallas Wings one oh six point eighty seven
to improve to twenty one and fourteen on the season. Finally,
some tennis news. The final for the Cincinnati Open is
(09:28):
tonight at six pm Eastern World number three Egasfontec will
take on world number seven Jasmine Paulini for the title.
All right, selic says, last week we told you about
the college soccer season kicking off, and we want to
give a shout out to the players from our show side,
Minnesota Aurora FC, some of whom are now back in
competing with their college teams. The Aurora has representation at Minnesota, Kansas, Georgia, Iowa, Drake, California,
(09:54):
Baptist Kentucky, Coastal Carolina, Utah State, Portland, Montana, and Colorado State.
If one of those is your school or your squad
that you root for, go find out who the Minnesota
Aurora player is and get to rooting for them. We're
wishing everyone the best of luck. We got to take
a quick break.
Speaker 6 (10:12):
Now hold up a second, slices. This is producer Mish
and before we hit this break, producer Alex and I
when it was Sarah the best of luck in this
next year of life.
Speaker 7 (10:22):
Happy birthday, Sarah. I hope you celebrate today by ripping
off your shirt like Brandy Chastain, doing a backflip like
Sam Kerr, and live streaming all of the festivities like
the US women's national team after the World Cup. The
women's sports community is so lucky to have you a
Nisha and I are too, so enjoy the day.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
That's right, og.
Speaker 6 (10:44):
We know you're basically ancient now, but if you're feeling
up for it, take yourself a little my lords shot
and uh, I don't know, hit a little slow mode
dance moment like Diana Tarazi after the Tokyo Olympics.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
That is, if your back's feeling okay when we come back.
My conversation with Gwen Young sit tight joining us now.
She's the CEO of the Women Business Collaborative, an alliance
(11:18):
working to achieve equal position, pay, and power for women
in business. A visiting scholar at the Elliott School of
International Affairs at George Washington University. As an attorney, she's
worked as a professional advocate for women and human rights
in corporate law settings, and alumna of Smith College, Harvard
and Martin Luther King Junior School of Law, UC Davis.
Plus like eighty other schools, it's Gwen Young. Hi, Gwen,
(11:41):
how are you? I'm good? Are we currently pursuing any
other degrees or are we taking a break on school
for now?
Speaker 3 (11:46):
We're taking a break.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
We're trying to stay involved in advice, but we're always learning,
but not at schools.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
It's always a joy to just get to pick through
like eleven different places of education for the bio. It's
very impressive. I want to talk about how you got started,
because you've spent your life basically working in human rights
advocacy from Kenya to Kosovo, Bosnia, to and Gola, Columbia,
to dar For and all over the place. So tell
me about growing up. How did you become passionate about
humanitarian relief and social justice.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Well, I grew up in Boulder, Colorado, which is typically
a place where sort of social justice and really sort
of caring about the world. But I always wanted to
go and see other cultures, see how we could get
along with other people, and see how we could sort
of always keep peace and justice. And when I got
to the Kennedy School at Harvard, I had some great
professors who said, you know, Africa is the continent to be.
Here's where a lot of innovation and growth is happening.
(12:36):
And I said, this is where I want to go.
And so I when I graduated my master's, I went
straight to Malawi, which no one had ever heard of.
In front, one of my friends said, are you going
to MAUI? Here's a surfboard.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
But I went over there and.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Learned so much about how we're similar and how we're different,
and how we could figure out how to kind of
build prosperous you know, communities and economies.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
What skill sets do you think you have that make
you good for this work?
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Well, first and foremost, I'm a people person. So I
love people, and so that allows me to really connect,
learn and listen and learn languages and so forth. Second
of all, and I'm very passionate about equity and justice,
So I want everyone to have equal opportunity when everyone
had the same things. I have the same opportunities that
I have, and I think that sort of nothing should
stand in people's way, right, So I want to make
(13:20):
sure people have education and healthcare and food. And I'm
you know, I work really hard and I'm really resilient.
So you know, I get up and run every morning,
and I get out and social with people, and then
I work a really hard day and it all kind
of bleeds together, and so that allows me to really
get a lot done, but also learn a lot at
the same time and figure out how am I going
to solve that problem?
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Because I'm a problem solver.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
I love that. Where are you now? Where are you based?
Speaker 4 (13:44):
I'm in the DC area, based in Arlington, Virginia. So
that's where I've been for ten years now.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
All right. One of my producers is DMV, so I
can hear her cheering in the background for that general area.
So you've done all this incredible work across all these
different continents, and I wonder where and when you started
to see women's sports fitting into your mission.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
I would say pretty early on in my career, and
it was probably probably starting in Mozambique, but really kind
of when I went up to West Africa. So starting
in Mozambique, what I started to see was that sports
were away, that you could bring kids that had suffered
from war together to do something fun and to learn
how to interact and to learn how to build trust
(14:25):
after societies have been sort of ravaged by war. When
I was in Senegal, which is where I was before
I came to the DMV, we actually had the MBA come,
so we had some you know, US sports teams come
work with sports teams in Senegal. And Senegal is a
very sporty society, and what I started to see was
it wasn't just men that were doing the sports, it
was the women as well. So I started to really
(14:46):
realize that getting involved with men's sports gave men and
women a place to interact, but also give women the
skills of confidence, leadership, you know, competition, everything that sports
gives you to grow and empower yourself. And it was
really giving go roles that and I started to realize
here's an opportunity to really get women involved in sports
and involved in the business community and economic empowerment and
(15:08):
everything that comes with giving them equal opportunity.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
At espnW, they've done this program for a number of years,
Global Sports Mentoring Program in connection with the Secretary of
State in the US government. And one of the things
that's been so fascinating to learn from all the different
participants from all over the globe is which countries are
actively invested and interested in their women and girls participating
in sport, understanding the connection between that and economic success,
(15:32):
higher GDP on average, all the other things that come
with women who are empowered, like you said, and confident,
and the countries that are not, and the women from
those countries that understand the power that there is in
helping bring up young girls in a space different from
the one that they grew up in. And I wonder,
across all the different countries in which you've worked, have
you noticed a difference in the success of women in
(15:55):
other spaces based on whether or not they were invited
to participate in sport.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
We have, and in all the countries I've seen, including
the United States.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Right.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
So, but when we're talking about the overseas pieces, I said,
you know, in Someengle I noticed that women were playing sports,
which also translated into many of the ministers, the Minister
of livestock, minister of health. They were women, so higher
up in the government, but also business owners. And in fact,
we and Senegal with Dhlberg Consulting, set up a loan
program for women businesses, not micro loans for small businesses,
(16:25):
but loans for women owned businesses because there were so many.
So you started to see them involved in both civil
society and the government, but in businesses as well. And
so you direct correlation in as you said, girls in sports,
in peace, in the community, in peace treaties being signed
and lasting longer, women rising into government, but women rising
into business. And then we know here in the United
(16:46):
States right that ninety four percent of women in the
csuite have played sports, and WBCs some recent research that
shows that ten percent of the women CEOs in the
russell SMP fortune and private companies have played college sports
are beyond. So you can see a really direct link
between those qualities and sort of leadership in business and
(17:07):
leadership in the government.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Yeah, it's very clearly not lip service when we talk
about the qualities of sport that carry over into business.
We do presentations through espnW again called campus conversations, going
to schools talking to the varsity athletes about how to
translate the skills that they're getting from their sports onto
a resume. Because it isn't as easy as simply saying
I did this internship, but it is about saying, you know, leadership,
(17:29):
working together, focusing on one goal, hard work, adversity, all
the other stuff.
Speaker 6 (17:34):
I know.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
You recently got fired up about issues of pay equity
around the DC Open tennis tournament. We mostly saw headlines
about Venus Williams making her triumphant return to the court
at age forty five and winning some matches, but you
wanted headlines about the pay disparity at the event. So
tell me more about why that event in particular got
your your hackles raised.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
Well, I think that event in particular is one of
the very few where there is a pay disparity in
the prize money.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
It's quite large. It's a two point three disparity.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
Between the men and the women's whereas as you know,
all the Grand Slams and the others are are more equitable.
What does you know inspire me or where I think
we want to watch What is happening is what the
WTA is doing by twenty twenty seven and twenty thirty
three to close that pay gap and to bring that
(18:21):
pay gap together. But it is one of the few
because some of the other tournaments, you know, do have
this pay equity.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
But the mood of all open here in d C.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
It's that two point three, you know, disparity and difference,
and it's a joint effort.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
It's important two.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Point three million or is that a percentage two.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Point three times larger? So the men's are about the
men's purse is about two point one and the women
is nine hundred and twenty two thousand, But it is
also a joint ATP and WTA event, So you know,
I know the WTA is working towards that they've got
a plan for twenty twenty seven, twenty thirty three, and
I know that, you know, we really need to look
(18:57):
at the profit sharing model from the ATP, But we
know that they're there's like Mark and and others that
have talked about this and really are committed to rectifying this.
And I think we only need to work together to
call for this.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yeah, because tennis is seen as one of the few
sports with pay equity, you know, obviously at the highest levels,
from Billyging and King years and years ago to Venus
Williams at Wimbledon. In so many spaces, it's been sort
of the leader for other women in sport to ask
for and demand what they what they deserve. Why do
you think there are still some tournaments and events that
(19:30):
don't abide by that understanding that the overwhelming public opinion
is that it should exist, and there is I think
a lot of public pressure towards the spaces that are
not offering equal pay.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Part of it is I think you have to look
at the price structure and how the tournaments are structured.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Right.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
So if it is structured with the profit sharing or
you know model, then that is slightly different than maybe
some of the other tournaments. So part of it is
we have to look at how this is structured. And
that's why I think the WTAS made the commitment. They're saying,
give us some time because it isn't just that one
weeker matches or the one set of matches that the
city open, but it's tied to the broader sort of
(20:09):
preseason stuff. So if it's been profit sharing all along,
then we really have to figure out how the women's
profit sharing is brought along or you have to change
the structure. So like we know in the business sector,
you know, you have to look at the structure. You
have to look at what you can change and make
those changes and make that commitment. So what I like
to see is the fact that, as you said, people
are calling for it. They're asking for it from the viewers,
(20:31):
you know, to the participants, to people like Billy Jane
King and the Women's Sports Foundation and others, and that's
what's really going to make that change, because it's got
to be the consumers, the viewers, the investors that are
really saying this is unacceptable, and let's look at how
we can restructure this so there will be equal prize
money and at least not two point three times larger
than the women's. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
I mean it feels like across sports for such a
long time, there has been the argument of, well, the
men make more money, so they should get more money,
and yet we never really dig into the systemic and
structural reasons why those profits are greater on one end,
whether that's you know, like really obvious things like a
(21:13):
lack of promotion, a lack of TV time, a lack
of marketing, a lack of investment, all that other stuff,
to smaller level stuff like whether it's US soccer saying oh,
we sold out of our jerseys in twenty four hours,
and you're like, you didn't make enough. Then you're missing
all that money. And then later on when you say
the women didn't make as much money as the men,
it's because you decided upfront that there wasn't enough demand
(21:33):
to make more than that, and you failed to capitalize
on the demand. So I think what you mentioned is
the understanding of the larger systems. How do you, having
seen it across so many different kinds of spaces, figure
out how to take the systemic and macro issues that
we should be zooming out and looking at to fix
(21:54):
that ultimately caused the micro issues that we want to address.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Well, I think it's a couple of things, right.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
So, as you just mentioned for those that don't know,
sports is structured differently, right, and so your revenue is
media rights, it's ticketing, it's sponsorship, it's merchandise. It's a
lot of different pieces that go into the how much money,
which is slightly different than somebody like you know IBM
or Salesforce, and Salesforce did a very good job of
rectifying a pay gap. But I think where there's similarities is,
(22:20):
you know, you have to have you know, senior leader
support for that. You have to have metrics and transparency.
You know, what is the money, what is the demand? Right,
and you have to you have to be able to
report that out and be transparent about this is what
it looks like. This is where there are discrepancies. And
so I think those that senior leadership commitment that metrics
and transparency, there needs to be a formal commitment, you know,
(22:42):
for equal pay, it's got to be we say in
a lot of places publish your pay bands, right, the
US government does that. What's your payment? Let everybody see that.
You know, we do live in a culture in the
United States where we don't talk about how much we make.
You know, you and I don't naturally have that conversation.
But having that, having a conversation over paybans about what
people make and understanding the business model, I think is
incredibly important. On the positive side, because I am definitely
(23:04):
a glass half full person. This is a moment in
time where there's the WNBA doing the collective bargaining agreement.
But importantly from the systemic pieces that we were talking about,
viewership is merchandise sales are up. People have confidence in
women athletes, which means that impacts brands and sponsorships. And
women athletes are very active in social media, and people
(23:26):
tend to tend to respond to that. So people are
watching Alona Maher and Rugby right, very active social media presence,
and they're aligned with those brands, right, And we watch
what happened with Target in a different way earlier this year,
and so the consumers are having to say and because
viewership is up, and because people are interested in ticket,
sales are up, there is a moment in time to
say and that can help us translate and change the
(23:47):
system to really look at equity. Major League Soccer led
the way you know, and we're working across kind of
the different leagues in the different sports. Tennis, as you said,
is a certain point and in some ways the Mudhaballa
in the city opens kin of the fewer places because
there's more pay equity across the different Grand Slams and
other types of matches. So I think we have a
(24:07):
moment in time to look at the commitment, look at
the data, look at the evidence, Have the consumers call
for it, have a social call and movement for that,
have the athletes themselves. But I also think the men's
leagues can be stepping in and they are in certain
places to have these conversations. They're more established business models.
But how do we talk about this and how do
we look at it to call for equity and pay.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yeah, and sports is an interesting place because we actually
not always there isn't full transparency, especially in some of
the more nascent women's leagues, but we do tend to
know the pay bans, the pay ranges that people make
for doing those sports. In comparison to their male counterparts
in ways that we don't often have transparency for in
the business world because we don't need to address a
salary cap or a certain amount of money that you're
(24:50):
allowed to spend, which we do have in the sports world.
Now you mentioned leadership. Obviously more women in leadership makes
a big difference in what kind of impact the women
in that business or organization, What it has on how
they're treated, how they're paid, how they're advanced. What do
we do when leadership isn't interested in having these conversations,
(25:10):
when leadership is pushing back on the importance of getting
to more equitable pay, How do we have conversations with
folks who tell us this is what's happening where I
work and not give them the simple answer of go
work somewhere else.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Well, I think it has I mean, this is always
the argument for women's equality inequity. Right is first, I
think you have to talk to the people who don't
agree with you, right, because you have to figure out
where that is. But I think with the leadership that
doesn't those conversations need to happen, right, and there needs
to be metrics and what we call the business case. Right,
These are the reasons why there needs to be you know,
social pressure coming from within the organization and outside of
(25:46):
the organization. But more importantly is there needs to be
a plan like this is how we're going to get there.
And I think working with leadership and working with the
people around leadership to convince them to see what changes
can be made and to be able to move the
pieces that we can move, right, because I think that's
where it comes out. Successful companies, successful pay equity does
come from leaders that are committed to that.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
And in the business world, that's the board.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
You know, the board will come in and say, if
this leader is not committed to this, but we see
this as important, that's when there will be a change
in leadership. As the extreme example, but the board is
usually the one that drives that pressure. So we need
to think about the investors, you know, who's calling for
what they're calling for? Look at Alli Financial when they
came in and funded women's soccer. What are we asking for?
What are we saying when we're going to invest And
(26:31):
that's where we can start to make both a difference
but also hold those leaders accountable but work with them.
There needs to be plans, ways to make this happen. Examples.
Europe's an example broadly of maybe more like women's basketball
being being you know in Europe, maybe paying a bit
more money people play on the off season, women's soccer overseas,
you know, things like that. To look at how that
(26:52):
happened and use those examples and provide the path forward.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
You know, the push from WNBA players to increase their
cut of league revit via a new CBA has gotten
a lot of headlines. What are some proven approaches to
moving the needle on contract negotiations?
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Well, I think.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
Proven taxics are obviously good negotiation data and evidence. So
and then you hear me say that over and over
because we are in a stage where there is a
lot of a lot of data and we have with
the WNBA this moment in time conversations about viewership, revenue, sponsorships.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
So I think that's one thing.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
I think it's using the advocates and the validators that
you can to come in and say this is important.
I think it's and it's negotiating strongly. I think those
are some of the best things.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
But I think the.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Transparency and that's where your podcast and the news and
the media talking about this, covering this, letting the viewers know,
letting people know exactly what is happening, helps with those negotiations. Actually,
it helps really lay out what's happening and gives the
leaders and the people negotiating a better chance to say,
this is what the consumers want, right, this is what
the viewers want, this is what the athletes want, this
(27:59):
is what we need to keep this, this moment alive
and the momentum moving with the increase in revenue, the
increase in viewership and increase in sponsorships.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Obviously, public shame is another proven tactic that works, whether
that comes via nudges like the T shirts that the
ladies wore at the WNBA all start, you know, pre pregame,
whether that's we've talked to folks that were helpful in
pushing forward the Tour de France fem and using public
figures in England to make public statements about needing to
(28:30):
bring the race back and making it something that women
could compete in again. And I wonder for you where
you see a line between the kind of public shame
that encourages and the kind that makes folks angry and
less likely to want to come to the table and negotiate.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
So probably not surprising to you. I don't actually call
it public shame. I call it sort of validators and influencers.
I call it like the Taylor Swift effect, like get
out and vote.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
That sounds nice, right, so nice, But it is.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
The T shirts, right, it is the T shirts rather
and it's it's it's the T shirts, it's the publics,
it's the social media posts, and it's saying, you.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Know, we need this, right.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
And I think when the public comes and says this
is what we want and social media is our tool
right now, right and says this is what we need,
and when you have people stand up and say it's
who says it, it's the numbers. I think in the
women's space, it's just as important for men to stand
up as it is for women to stand up and
say this is important, this is what we need because
(29:25):
that commitment allows a league, a team, a lawyer, a negotiator,
you know, a player's association right to have those conversations,
like the Tennis Association, the Women's Tennis Association to have
those conversations. And so I think it's incredibly important and
it means watching it means getting on the news, being
on shows like this. I think that's what really drives
(29:46):
drives people's momentum and fire, but also educates those that
do not know. We're unaware of either of the facts
what's going on, or how they can how they can
make a difference.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Do you have an example from your work in other
countries where you at first we're tasked with fixing a
problem that felt sort of untenable, or working with someone
that felt like they would never come and meet you
in the middle or come to your side, and a
surprising way that that actually changed, or a surprising way
that you found to get them to negotiate.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
You know, I have a lot of examples from my career.
I think of the one of the might sound surprising
in the ramost sports, but overseas it would be like, well,
come see come to Senegal, come to Columbia, Come to Coastvo.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
See what happened.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
See the strength the Balkans, the women drove the peace agreement.
Come meet these women, Come see what they're doing. So
one is it. I think seeing and being on the
frontline so will be a part of it. Come to
the trial, come to see what the women's Business Association
is doing right. So I think that's one thing. You know.
The second thing is also you know, I never stopped right.
(30:51):
So I worked for a group called Doctors out Boarders,
and I said for a long time and I was like,
here's what we need to look at. And there was
some pushback initially, and I was like, I'm not going
to stop, and so I got everybody. I went and
talked to everybody from the patients to the doctors, to
the nurses, to the intake people, to the drivers, and
then I put together, here's what we need to do.
Here's the data that shows this is what we need
to do, and went to senior leadership and went sort
(31:14):
of everywhere and said, and this person says we should
do it, and this senior leader over here says we
should do it.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
But I also believe in getting people in the room right.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
The more conversations we can have, the more we can
agree to disagree, but talk through the issues. I think
that's incredibly important and hear each other because it's not
going to go away, and women's sports are here to stay.
The money is here to stay, the investment is here
to stay, and so the treatment needs to be you
know equity and equality of opportunity.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
I love that you said come and see, because that's
what I'm always yelling about on this show, is that
I wish the very highest top executives at brands, media companies,
et cetera. Would be showing up at things like WNBA
All Star, Women's Final, four, NWSL Championship, WNBA Finals, all
these different spaces and actually see the the passion from
(32:01):
the fans, the investment from the brands who are showing up,
and the size and scope and scale of what we're
doing now in the women's sports space, because I think
some of them have such antiquated ideas about what it
looks like, and just in recent years, I think women's
sports fans have finally been able to actually appreciate what
it's been like for men's sports fans for years when
they show up at something like WNBA All Star and
(32:23):
they see all the parties and events and activations and
merch and celebrities and things like that, and the business
folks who aren't coming to see are really behind on
understanding it, and then they're making their deals or they're
making their pitches based on a reality that no longer exists.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
I totally agree with you. And I was thinking.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
I went to the She Believes conference in LA with Deloitte,
and I thought, I looked around the road was great.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
It's Brandy Chestain, It's Billy Jean King, it's Michelle Kang.
We're all in the room.
Speaker 4 (32:47):
We're all having these great conversations. There's contributions to Major
League Soccer there in the room.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
And I'm looking around the room like, where are the businesses.
Where are they to hear?
Speaker 4 (32:55):
What's going on? What's happening? We had the ad council there,
where are they to understand? And really what's going on?
And to your point, home do a game?
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Right?
Speaker 4 (33:03):
When I went to Audifield and watched the Spirit play
a couple of years ago, what you see there convinces
you that this is a viable business model and that
fans are interested in that there is things too. And plus,
this is the most competitive, smart group of women that
I have met, whether that's in men's sports or women's sports.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Right, yeah, all right, last question for you. I'm just
curious about the Women Business Collaborative. You have a ton
of different folks from different spaces coming together. How did
this start and ultimately how do you figure out it's
such a big cost to say, how do we achieve
equal position, pay and power for women in business? What
kind of business, what industry, at what level highest or lowest,
(33:42):
or front office or starting out? So how did it
start and what kind of helps you decide where your
focus should be at any given time.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
So it started in March of twenty nineteen, and it
was twenty five organizations that work on women's leadership that
came together and said, look, we were much stronger together.
If we do this collaboratively, advocate together, share data, share
best practices, speak as one voice, we will make a
difference for women's leadership in business. You know, as we've
developed over the past six years, we've got on an
(34:12):
industry focused a little bit about what's going on in
the world. Right in sports is the perfect example. You know,
about a year ago we were looking at it and
I said, look at all of these women that are
involved in sports, either they own a sports team, Allison Fister,
VP at the Celtics, look at all of these women,
Look at Shila Johnson, Michelle King, Sint Marshall, They're all here.
(34:32):
This is an industry when we don't understand a lot
about let's learn about this industry, and somebody said it's
like the tech industry where there are a lot of
women in the beginning, but I also said, this is
an industry that's growing, and we're looking at models from
Major League in soccer around pay equity, so we were
able to go, let's do a deep dive here and
really take a look at it. The other group that
we support and is always a constant is women owned
(34:54):
businesses and being able to support not just the C
suite executives, as you say, it's women own businesiness is
and we deliberately use the term all women right because
we want to make sure we're not just talking about
CEOs or we're not just talking about women entrepreneurs.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
We're talking about all women in the workplace.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
And broadly, we choose sort of based on what's going
on in the business world, what the companies are doing,
and what our partners are doing, and because we're a
collaborative and a collective, we're able to kind of listen
to everybody and go, let's do a focus on corporate
purpose or let's do a focus on women owned businesses
and really build out those strong partnerships in one year,
we trained one hundred women in cybersecurity training and worked
on cybersecurity and AI issues across all industries. And so
(35:33):
it's just being opportunistic, I think is part of it
about meeting people where they are, but also meeting where
there's business opportunity. And right now women's sports is one
of those areas. But also the women that are leading
in men's sports is equally is important. So that's really
a part of our what we call are in the
Arena initiative and our focus. And as I said, I'm
just going to I can't forget to say this. We
started this podcast talking about how this is pathways for
(35:56):
girls into careers, empowerment and job opportunity. And the skills
in sports, or the skills in working in the sports
industry are transferable to the energy industry, to the insurance industry.
So there is an opportunity here to really create those
pathways and allow women to move in and out of
their careers and in and out of their passions.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah, and I think obviously one of the biggest things
about sports is that the job is public facing, the inspiration,
the representation, the way that these women athletes inspire, empower educate, etc.
Sets them apart from other leaders in the sense of
(36:38):
how big a range of the people watching them and
experiencing their work is compared to someone who's in an
office doing great work, doing huge things, creating policy, doing
stuff that will eventually trickle down and affect millions. But
it's the women on our TVs that are doing these
things that we witness every day that I think give
permission to so many other girls and women to speak up,
to demand more task for what they deserve and all
(37:00):
those other things. So I love how much of a
recognition there is that the women's sports space is leading
the way in ways that can be educational for other
spaces as well. And I love that you see that
because you very clearly bring a ton of expertise and
again education and life experience to the space and applying
it to women's sports can only help this thing that
(37:20):
we love so much. So thanks Gwenn, and thanks for
the time.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
Thank you, Sarah.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
Thank you so much forasing that word inspirational, because that's
I think why we're all here, So thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Thanks so much to Gwen for joining us. We got
to take another break when we come back. What I
want for my birthday from you slices. Welcome back slices.
We love that you're listening, but we want you to
get in the game every day too, So here's our
(37:53):
good game play of the day. I'd like a little
birthday present from all of you, hopefully an easy one.
Do something extra nice for someone today. Buy the person
behind you in line their coffee, Volunteer at your local
animal shelter or maybe a soup kitchen. Gather up some
of those socks, t shirts and shoes you never wear
anymore and donate them, or give some money to a
(38:13):
cause that matters to you. The world kind of sucks
right now, but we can always create a little light.
So if you remember to do something nice today, send
a note my way and let me know it'll make
my birthday just a little bit brighter. We always love
to hear from you, so hit us up on email
good game at wondermedianetwork dot com or leave us a
voicemail at eight seven two two o four fifty seventy
(38:34):
and don't forget to subscribe, Rate and review. It's easy.
Watch piano bars rating ten out of ten songs we
all know the words to review for my Birthday. I
threw yet another epic costume party this past Saturday. This
time it was a sequel to a previous bash. Back
in twenty twenty one, I invented the Holiday do Over Day,
(38:56):
during which we celebrated every major holiday we missed to
the twenty twenty COVID show Down, all in one day,
in a different location for each, with a different costume
for each. Now that year we did Saint Patrick's Day,
Fourth of July, Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's. Well.
Do Over Day came back this year by popular demand,
and this time we did Opening Day, Sinko Tomo Pride,
(39:19):
Christmas in July, Labor Day, and New Year's. Every single
costume had to fit in one backpack that we carried
around all day, and we went to different stops for
each one. Now Labor Day was supposed to be a
party on the beach, but thunderstorms forced a pivot to
a nearby piano bar that we basically took over, about
forty of us strong in the wackiest, weirdest costumes, singing
(39:40):
and dancing along to every song. At one point I
was scream singing Pink Pony Club next to a hot dog,
a pickle, and a lobster. When in doubt, y'all go
to the piano bar. Now it's your turn to rate
and review. Give us five stars, say something nice about us.
Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow. Good game, Gwen, Good game,
(40:02):
Sue Bird. You losing your voice because you were scream
singing Pink Pony Club next to a pickle. Good Game
with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports production in
partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find
us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers
(40:24):
are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive producers are
Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutterer. Our
editors are Emily Rutterer, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and Gianna Palmer.
Our associate producer is Lucy Jones. Production assistance from Avery
Loftis and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain
Host
Sarah Spain
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