June 3, 2025 • 31 mins
This is a very special episode, slices. Sarah is joined by Raiders running backs coach Deland McCullough, the co-author and subject of her new book, Runs in the Family: An Incredible True Story of Football, Fatherhood, and Belonging. They discuss the writing process, the sometimes uncomfortable act of excavating your past, reactions from Deland’s friends and family, his emotions ahead of launch day, and the serendipitous circumstances of his new job with the Raiders.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to good Game of Sarah Spain, where I'm walking
into my local bookstore pointing to my book and bragging
to anyone who walks by. Hey, I wrote that. It's Tuesday,
June third, and on today's show, we're doing something a
little bit different and I got to address the elephant
in the room. And we're not talking about Ellie here.
I wrote a book about a man, and for that,
(00:22):
I'm sorry. There are women in the book, though, So
if you could stand to listen to a whole episode
that isn't about women's sports, I actually think you'll really
enjoy it. To celebrate the release of my book Runs
in the Family, an incredible true story of football, fatherhood
and belonging, I sat down last week with my co
author and the subject of the book, Raiders running backs
coach Dylan McCullough. We talk about the sometimes uncomfortable act
(00:46):
of excavating year past, the reactions of his friends and
family to the book, his emotions as launch day approached,
and the serendipitous and almost unbelievable circumstances of his new
job with Pete Carroll and the Raiders. Spoiler alert, y'all.
We've talked openly about the big reveal in this book
ever since our first story and e sixty feature ran
(01:06):
on ESPN a few years ago. But if you haven't
already heard it and you want to read the book
without knowing the twist, wait to listen to this episode
until after you've read or listened.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
To the book.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
My chat with Dylan, plus a WNBA reset, roster movement galore,
and how to switch teams but not owners is all
coming up right after this welcome back slices. Here's what
you need to know today. Let's start with the WNBA.
(01:39):
We're two weeks into the regular season, so let's take
a minute to step back and admire the standings and
the gap that's already emerging. At the top of the league,
you got the New York Liberty and Minnesota Links, both
undefeated through seven games. Then the middle of the PAC
teams including the five and two Atlanta Dream and Phoenix
Mercury anyone else surprised to see Phoenix all the way
up there. Then all the way at the bottom, we
(02:02):
got the one in six Dallas Wings and Connecticut Sun.
Worth noting that the tough start has inspired a roster
change for the Sun Already On Monday morning, the team
announced it had waived Robin Parks and signed Jalen Brown. Brown,
a six to one guard forward, played for the Dallas
Wings last season before getting traded to the Indiana Fever,
who waved her ahead of the regular season. So the
(02:23):
Sun already trying to make moves to improve things. Obviously,
still a lot of basketball to play this season, but
so far, it does look like Minnesota and New York
are gun in for that WNBA Finals rematch. More hoops,
The Golden State Valkyries may not be winning games yet,
but their fans are enjoying Balhalla. The new expansion team
(02:43):
is two and four, but the fans are showing up
and showing out. All three of their home games today
have been eighteen thousand plus person sellouts, including Sunday's eighty
six seventy five loss to the Minnesota Links, where they
made a real good run before coming up short down
the stretch. More WNBA. After all those injuries we mentioned yesterday,
it's not surprising we've got some hardship contract news to
(03:04):
report today down at Phoenix, Wherecalia Copper is still out
after arthroscopic knee surgery and alyssa Thomas is sidelined with
a calf injury. The Mercury signed Hayley Jones to a
hardship contract on Sunday. Drafted sixth overall in the twenty
twenty three WNBA draft after four seasons at Stanford, Jones
played forty games for the Atlanta Dream last season, but
was waved back in May. Meantime, in Indiana, is Caitlin Clark,
(03:27):
Sidney Colson, and Sophie Cunningham are all sidelined. The Fever
signed Airy McDonald to a hardship contract after wrapping up
her college career at Arizona in twenty twenty one. McDonald
played three seasons for the Dream, then spent twenty twenty
four with the Los Angeles Sparks before getting waved heading
into this season. Despite the circumstances, it's good to see
both of those players back in the w Can you
(03:48):
believe it even more? WNBA Los Angeles Sparks tweener Rakia
Jackson has missed her squad's past two games for quote
unquote personal reasons, and it's got some folks cyebrows. Race Jackson,
the number four pick in last year's draft, average over
thirteen points per game. In twenty twenty four. She's been
coming off the bench for new head coach Lynn Roberts
team lately, and her average is down to seven points
(04:11):
per game. On Sunday, an eagle eyed social media user
claims Rakia unfollowed the Sparks on Instagram and took mention
of the team out of her bio. We haven't confirmed this,
but we do know that Roberts was asked about Jackson
in a press conference on Sunday and had this to say,
per an ex post from John W. Davis of the
Long Beach Press Telegram response to Rakia, Rikey's a big
(04:33):
part of our organization and our team, and.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
She's taking personal time.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
And we support her and we're excited to get her back.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
When she's ready to be back.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
We'll keep you updated on this situation as it unfolds. Meantime,
I do want to shout out a bright spot on
the Sparks roster, Odyssey Simms. She shined on Sunday, putting
up thirty two points in her LA Sparks eighty five
eighty loss to the Mercury. It was sim first thirty
plus point game in six seasons. To Soccer Washington's spirit
(05:05):
coach Jonathan Heraldez is departing the team to take the
recently vacated head coaching position at French club Oel Lyon
both teams, the Spirit and oel are owned by Michelle
Kang's company Kiniska. Heraldez was hired by the Spirit last
January as one of the most sought after managers in
women's soccer after leading FC Barcelona Femini to two Women's
(05:26):
UEFA Champions League titles. He joined the Spirit Midsummer, and
his short time in Washington was highlighted by a runner
up finish in last year's NWSL championship game and a
Challenge Cup win to start the twenty twenty five season.
Spirit assistant coach Adrian Gonzalez, who served as the team's
interim head coach last season before herald has arrived, will
take over again as official head coach once Heralda's tenure
(05:49):
officially concludes in July. This is the sixth coaching change
since Kang became Washington's majority owner in twenty twenty two.
To the PWHL, today's the day that teams have to
submit a list of three players that they're protecting for
the upcoming Expansion Draft. Starting tomorrow, the five day exclusive
signing window begins. That's when Seattle and Vancouver will be
(06:10):
allowed to start negotiating with unprotected players. Both Vancouver and
Seattle will be allowed to sign five players each during
this period. Then on June ninth, it's the Expansion Draft,
where both teams will be able to build their rosters
out to include twelve players each. Like we said before,
only being allowed to protect three players from the jump
is wild. We're trying not to get too deep into
(06:32):
internet rumors and speculation about our favorite players getting snagged
and relocated. I don't know if I could say the
same for the players on those teams. If I were them,
I would be googlin' up a storm. Finally, some cool
news out of Chicago. The Chicago Color Neutral Stars formerly
Red Stars, may be losing most of their games, but
(06:52):
the team's president, Karen Litzo, is winning in the Illinois
General Assembly. Per release from the Stars, the Assembly quote
voting to pass House built twenty seven to seventy two,
a bill backed by the Chicago Stars that a men's
the Illinois Sports Facility Authority Act, known as the Equity Amendment.
This legislation ensures that if conversations are had regarding public
(07:13):
funding for sports facilities through ISFA, that women's professional sports
teams are to be considered, effectively securing women a seat
at the table, the bill will be sent to the
Governor's desk for his consideration. End quote. Now, if you
listen to the show, you know I often mentioned taxpayer
funds and city assistants as one of the many benefits
enjoyed by men's pro leagues but historically denied to women's leagues.
(07:36):
It feels like there's finally a push in a couple
different places to start demanding equal support and financial assistance
for women's stadiums and facilities too, which we love to see.
So shout out Chicago. We got to take a quick break, y'all.
When we come back, it's a big day for me
and my co author, Delan McCullough. Our chat is coming
up next joining me. He's one of football's premier running
(08:06):
back coaches, helping nearly twenty backs to one thousand plus
yard seasons. A five time national finalist for Top running
Back Coach, he played a key role in the chief
Super Bowl win helped Notre Dame get back to the
National Title Game last season and just join the staff
of the Las Vegas Raiders. He and I wrote a
book together about his incredible life. It's Delan McCullough. Hi, Delan, Hey,
how you doing.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Thank you? Thank you.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
I'm so excited to just chat about this book. We're
doing lots of interviews together, but me getting to interview
you is very fun and I want to spend most
of our time just you know, talking and not rehashing
the book. So I'm going to give a brief synopsis
so people kind of know what we're talking about, but
the goal is to get people to buy the book,
so we're not going to give all the good stuff. Basically,
you grew up. You were adopted Youngstown, Ohio, post industrial collapse.
(08:52):
So you had a young radio DJ and his wife
who adopted you, and when you were two years old,
the DJ decided to leave. Now you've got a single
mom with you and your brother Damon. In a pretty
tough time in Youngstown, she dealt with a turbulent divorce,
subsequent relationships that weren't always all that great. There was
some abuse, there were some drugs, and during all of
(09:14):
this you're just trying to figure out what your identity
is as both an adopted kid and as a person
who do I want to be? What do I want
to become? You find football. Football becomes a sanctuary. You
become a great player. Get recruited to play for Miami
of Ohio by a fellow Youngstown guy, Sherman Smith, who
had made it big in the NFL and came back
to recruit for is alma mater was coaching there, brought
(09:35):
you there. You break a bunch of records. Things are
going great. You think you're going to be in the NFL.
Injuries hit the NFL. Dream doesn't happen. You bounce around football.
You get into teaching. You get into coaching. You're making
a name for yourself as a coach, all while being
mentored by a handful of your coaches, including Sherman Smith.
You have four sons, and every time you have to
tell them, I'm just not sure what my history is.
(09:56):
I don't know my birth parents, I don't know my
medical history. And final in your early forties, the laws
change and you're able to find your birth certificate. You'll
find your mom within two days on Facebook. Turns out
she was a sixteen year old honor student who was
sent away to have you in private, went back to
school with no one. The wiser only told her parents,
and her cousin didn't even tell the dad because he
(10:17):
was already off to school and she didn't want to
disrupt his life. And you find her on Facebook and
ask her about her life. It turns out she was
in Youngstown, right down the street from you, but you
never knew. And you asked, you know who my dad is?
And she says, your dad is a man named Sherman Smith.
So it turns out your college football coach and mentor
of nearly thirty years was your dad all along. Now
(10:39):
it sounds like we're giving away the story, but I
promise you there is so much good stuff in this
that it's not really about the twist. It's about everything else.
So Deilan, I just want to ask you were just
a few days out from the official launch date of
the book. How are you feeling? What are the predominant emotions?
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I'm excited, you know.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
I'm looking forward to every getting a resonated message of
hope and overcoming adversity and searching for who you really
are and overcoming whatever it takes to find out those answers,
So I'm excited about it. There was some trepidation for
a little bit, of course, but I'm past that and
(11:19):
I'm excited about the message that the book.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Is going to say.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
I'm glad to hear that. I was worried about the trepidation.
I was trying to make sure I was supportive during that,
because it's tough to tell the whole world your story.
It's tough to unearth some of this stuff. But I
knew once we got to the end, it would not
only serve you and your family, but so many other
people who are going to read it. And I wonder
that trepidation. What was the toughest part for you in
figuring out, Okay, I'm opening up my life and my
(11:45):
family and my friends, not only to Sarah to tell
the story, but soon to the world.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
I'm a really quiet person, so I'm really reserved and
to myself, you know. But I think the story says
this that when I open up and let people in,
that there's things that people can learn from me. So,
you know, just just doing that kind of opening myself
up to other people. But again, I think the thing
(12:11):
that was overwriting for me is what people can learn
from this, and it was therapy in this for me too.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
I mean, it just.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Really was was immensely therapeutic for me, kind of going
through having these conversations, writing these things down, having it written.
At least that first draft was pretty hardcore, man, and
I was like, whoa, this is something. You know, when
you get it back the way that you got it back,
you don't realize how tough it is, you know, and
(12:37):
it makes you look yourself in the mirror. But once
we got through, we did kind of smoothed out some edges,
but not taking away the true flavor for what the
book is going to be.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
I'm excited to see what people get from Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
I remember I was sitting with my friends at dinner
getting ready to go see Madonna, and that was the
first text I got from you after I sent the
first draft. And a lot of people as they're writing book,
they're sort of like checking in chapter by chapter. But
I knew a lot of my interviews with you and
your family would cause me to revise things and go
back and change the order of things. So as we
(13:09):
were doing the interviews and talking, I was like, all right,
he's going to get the one big first draft and
then we'll work on it together. And I was so
nervous about what you might say, and you were super positive,
which I loved. But you also said I learned a lot.
And I said that to my friend. I was, oh,
I'm so glad he said he learned a lot. She's like,
it's his life, what does he have to learn? And
I'm like, girl, I read like nine books to prep
(13:29):
for this so I could make sure it wasn't just
about him but about all of us and how we
all get to make these choices about ourselves and our family.
And I was also really happy that throughout your brother
and some other members of your family were reading it
and really saying, you got me, you understood me, and
you told my story right. I wonder now that you've
shared the book with more of your friends and family,
(13:50):
were you surprised by anyone's reaction or feedback?
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Not really, you know what it was overall, it was
very positive. So what I sent to an array of
people now, like hey, friends from long time ago, recent
you know obviously you know, longstanding friends, people in my family,
different things like that.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Who I knew I would get the truth from. And
you know, at one point.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
I thought, I mean, I would get maybe one of
my cousins say, hey, this ain't a good idea.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Hey chapter six or chapter fifteen, this is going to
be a problem. But everyone was so supportive.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
Everybody, and I went into it and loaded it's saying, hey,
tell me the truth, tell me where you think it's
going to be some hot spots, just give me your
perspective on it.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
And it's been overwhelmingly positive. I didn't hear anything about
any issues or things like that.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
And I know it's not perfect, but it's going to
be pretty perfect in how it hits people's hearts and
hopefully it gives them some insight that can help elevate
things that they have going on in their own lives.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah, I'm so glad to hear that. It is scary
to tell stories, and we all have our own memories
of things. We all remember things differently. And one of
the most powerful things you said to me is you
were telling me these stories of your past and your
childhood and growing up and all these other things. Is
a conversation you had with your adoptive mom Adele. And
you said, listen, Ma, like I get that this is
(15:11):
how you remember this and I get that you're giving
me context that I didn't know as a kid about
why you made these choices or why these things happened.
But I was a kid and I didn't know that.
So this is how I took it then. And that's
the part we have to share, is not the revised
version of now I understand looking back, but how it
felt for you as a kid as a teen to
go through some of the tough times. And that was
(15:32):
really powerful. And I think that's why it's so useful
to really get your story out. When it lives in
your head, you can just keep editing as you go,
but there's something about putting it down and really being
honest about what it was. You know, one of the
big parts of this book is choice. You have been
very clear since the beginning that life did not happen
to you. You chose the person that you are. You
(15:53):
didn't let a tough childhood hold you back. You didn't
want to repeat the behaviors of some of the toxic
parents or parent figures that you had. Where do you
think you found that strength throughout your life to be
resilient and choose your own path, Maybe not the path
that would have been handed to you.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
That's a great question.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
I don't know, just just sitting there and hearing some
of the things that I heard, some of the things
I experienced, you know, just it was like a switch
was flipped and I was just saying, you know what,
I sat up one night and it's an argument or
whatever going on, and again, not being.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Disrespectful to anything, I just said, you know what, this
is not how my life is going to be when I.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Grow up and I'm in a position to have influence
or I have my own family, that it won't be
like this. So I took a lot of those lessons
that I learned to kind of reverse them, because you
would say, well, shoot, those are some bad things that
you've seen.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Why didn't you mimic them or what?
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Or they were things that you could end up kind
of falling victim to as far as your decision making,
And I said no.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
I looked at him as the reverse and said, look,
I'm glad.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
I said, I'm glad that I had these experiences because
it moted me into who I am, and I wanted
to be the opposite of let lesson.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, that's a through line something that your mom told
you when you were young, which was God gives you
a choice. You know you can. God gives you let's
you see good and bad, and you get to choose
what you want to be. And it feels like you
kept doing that. You know, it's really a book about you,
but about all of us and all of our families,
both birth and found families, and you know, I wanted
(17:27):
to be sure to write about it, and I wanted
to really understand how interesting it is to be handed
stuff via blood that's very obvious, DNA and genes, but
also what were handed via family messaging and lessons and traditions.
And it's so easy to sometimes take those things as
fact after you hear them over and over, the things
your parents always say, or the kind of throwaway lines
(17:47):
that they don't even recognize their repeating, and you start
to internalize it and you're like, well, that's how it is.
But I wanted folks who read it to consider that
while their genes are decided, they get to choose what
they passed down to their children. They get to choose
what they continue with their siblings, even with their parents.
You can go back and heal backwards. If you decide
something that you have with your family isn't serving you.
Did the book help you have some of those tough
(18:09):
conversations with your family? Did it bring up some stuff
through reading it that made you want to talk to
them about some of those choices.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
I mean it's interesting when you look back and you
talk about the habits or the tendencies you pick up
just based on how you were raising. I mean, and
I was aware of those things, you know, to a
degree as we went through the book, and I thought about, hey,
as a young you know, as a young person and
(18:37):
an young adult, just the way the structure of our
home was.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
And it wasn't anything wrong. A lot of people raised
like this. You didn't question authority, You didn't question some
things you didn't. You just kind of went with the flow.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
And I talk to people about the books, you know
right now, shoot a couple hours ago.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
That resonates with people.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
They say, look, I still do that today for me
in my home, I just said, look, I wanted people
to understand the why, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
This is what we're doing this for. Here's why this
is happening.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
And it was an open form where guys can have
a conversation about being so I didn't want it to
be a situation where hey, I'm grown, you just do
what I say do and all these different things, and
the same thing with my coach, and I'll try to
get the guy as the why and give them a
little bit of a voice and empower them to a degree. So, yes,
the book was therapeutic because it pulled all those layers.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Back and it also revealed to me a bunch of
things that I'm.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
I ain't I ain't closed the gap on yet, I
got I still got some things.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
I'm like, Wow, there's issues.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
There's things that were that are in the book to
make me say, I still need a whole lot of
things that I need to overhain.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah, are there new questions that you now have? Are
there things that you answered a lot about yourself and
where you came from, But now as you continue to
be a part of this new blended family, are there
new questions or goals that you have?
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Well, I mean, I just want to continue to grow
in my communication.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
You know, as I said here, I sent this to
one of my friends and they had asked, have you,
guys the people in the book have we addressed through counseling,
et cetera. Some of those things, and I said, no,
we haven't. And that was an interesting thing just to
think about. Like I'm kind of doing therapy in real
(20:21):
time like with the world, like people going get interviewed
and different things, and I say, how did you overcome this?
So how do you think about that? I'ma say, I'm
still figuring it out. Yeah, you know, and look, I'm
inviting you guys into that process that's going on right
now and just trying to work my way through it,
but again being as transparent as possible, and you know,
(20:42):
letting you know, bearing my scars in the process and
hopefully people learn from them because I'm still learning from
them right now.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
I love that there are a lot of people that
want to wait till they're at the quote unquote finished product,
but there is so much benefit to letting people see
the messy middle. I think you're past the middle. I
think you're further down the way the road than the middle.
But you're definitely not a finished product. None of us are.
I learned a lot about myself and my family by
doing this book, and I really took so much joy
(21:11):
in doing the research. All the books I read about
family systems and generational trauma and emotional DNA and all
that stuff. And I got to play therapist a little
in my desire to understand each person in the book
and why they made the choices they did and be
empathetic and intentional about why they became who they are.
And that's one of the things I think when you
get far enough in life and you realize that people
(21:33):
are the way they are because of things that happened
to them, things that happened around them, you tend to
be a little more empathetic. Even if they're jerk offs.
You tend to feel like they're they're that way because
of something, and could you help them through it instead
of just coming, you know, being at odds with them.
I wonder what's been the best part of the journey
(21:55):
of finding your birth parents Just.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
That connection, you know.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
I mean, you know, the conversations I have with my
dad and the conversations I have with my mom.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
I mean, those are like like.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
They complete a circle for me, you know, because forever,
especially on the father's side, I never had that dad
who I can just talk to about anything.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
I never had, you know, we had these figures, but
they weren't good figures.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
They definitely weren't figures that I would say, Hey, I
need to run something by you and have a conversation.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I never had.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
So I just think about the type of person I am,
how quiet I am, different things like that. Maybe having
that person outside of my brother that I felt like
I could just speak too freely, you know, it could
have helped me bridge some gap and maybe prevented some
things that happened in my early childhood as far as
some of my decision making. But all those are part
(22:49):
of the grand plan, you know, to get me where
I am.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
So but I do know the relationships I have.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
With my mom and my dad, and obviously my stepmom,
my brother and sisters and all the extended family has
been outstanding, and I just want to keep building on that.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
What's been the toughest part about finding your birth parents
and adding them into the mix, I.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Don't know, just not feeling like I'm slighting the family
that did everything, laid the foundation for everything. You know,
the family that you know eighty percent of the book
is about, you know that I that I grew up
around in my friends and those guardian angels that we
referred to in the book. You know, I don't want them,
(23:31):
and I sent message. How about it is, I send
messages to all of those guys. This is just a
lot of people in there, and they were just blown
away with I just.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Sent the message to them, thank you and here's what's coming,
and you were mentioned and different things like that, because
I don't want anybody to feel like, Wow, he got
to this point and all he's talking about is you
know what happened when his birth records.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Weren't you know.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
I don't want anybody to feel like I forgot the
impact that they had on me when I was ten
years old, eight years old, nineteen years.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Old, thirty years old.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
So it's important to me that everybody feels respected during
this whole process.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
So the toughest part is making sure that and it's
not tough, but I got to be intentional. Yeah, well,
letting those guys know how important they are to me.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
I'm really excited for you. The impact you're going to
have on some people in your life when you talk
about them in the book. That's so meaningful to people.
And I think even though we try to sometimes we
forget to tell people how we feel in the moment,
or we feel uncomfortable really expressing to people just what
they meant to us or our lives. And for those folks,
those Guardian Angels and a couple others in the book,
(24:35):
I think they're going to be really moved by the
impact they had on you. You're talking to me from
the Las Vegas Raiders facility. Your dad coached under Pete
Carroll with the Seahawks. You did a coaching internship with
the two of them way back when before you ever
knew that Sherman was your dad. Now you're coaching under
Pete Carroll with the Raiders. How has it been working
(24:56):
with Pete now that you both know the truth about
you and your dad?
Speaker 4 (25:00):
It's a real because he'll look and you just you'll
look across the table and you'll start laughing, like, man,
I feel like I'm looking at Shirm right. So it's
been great, you know, just the synergy between us. I think,
you know, the way he approaches things on a very
humanistic level, relationship level with.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Guys that really marries up with.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
My philosophy and the way that our attempt to build
football players and more importantly create positive young men and adults.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Obviously, you know.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
So, I mean it's been real cool, you know, right now,
just getting to know the guys and getting ready.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
For the season.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Well, I can't wait for people to read the book
and really understand how wild it is that you end
up coaching for Pete after your dad did that. You're
repeating so much of what he did in his life. Again.
I'm just really excited for the book to be out there.
I know you're older than me, but I'm proud of
you dealing for doing this and for being brave enough
to do it, and for all the people's lives you're
going to touch. I remember the first story we did
for ESPN, people coming to send us messages about their
(26:02):
stories of adoption or their wild ways that they learned
that someone in their life was part of their family.
And even the folks to message and said that they
looked for their birth parents and it didn't work out
well and it wasn't joyful, and what it meant to
them to see how things turned out for you. I
just think that's going to happen twenty fiftyfold with this book,
(26:23):
and I'm very excited for you to see what an
impact you can have on other people with just the
person that you are. I know it wasn't always easy
every step of the way, especially when you were sending
me your edits via text message and it was like
Chinese water torture, all debt boop boop boop. But that's
the process, and I'm really proud of us that we
did it, and I'm really excited for the book to
come out. So thanks for chatting with me.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
No, and I definitely want to say you know everybody,
I mean, you did outstanding and this the research, putting
everything together, the interviews, dealing with the text messaging, I
mean I was copying screen texts and send me all
these things.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
And just the fact that you had a vision.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
I mean, yes, we put we put everything in this blender,
but you put it out and kind of laid it
out in it's accinct manner that there's no I wouldn't
have thought about writing this on my own anyway, but
I couldn't think of a better person, especially as we're
going through the process, and now we are we I.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Guess we get into the finished line, but maybe the
starting line.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Is just the beginning.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah, the beginning.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
We're ending one part but opening up another. I'm excited
to see where this thing goes. But I just wanted
to tell you. I'm just honored and full of pride
that I had the opportunity to do this.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Yeah, I'm so grateful to you in your family. They
were so honest and welcoming and trusted me, and that's
a really big deal. All right, get back to work
and also leave work soon. What do you what do
you do? It's still at work.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Come on, I'm about to get up out of here
right now.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Man. Even after several years of working together, I'm still
surprised and intrigued by Delan's perspective on this whole journey.
So I love talking to him and hearing the emotions
that the book inspires and being reminded of how many
folks might be deeply affected by it. So grateful to
him for joining the show and for trusting me with
this story. We got to take another break, slices. When
we return, it's time to pull your cameras out. Welcome back, Slices.
(28:24):
We love that you're listening, but we want you to
get in the game every day too. So here's our
good game play of the day. When you get your
copy of Runs in the Family, since you already ordered it, obviously,
send me a photo of you reading the book. I
want to see you slices in your booknooks on your
picnic blankets, and atop your cozy couches, digging into what
Dylan and I worked so very hard on. You audiobook folks,
(28:47):
have someone take a photo of you listening with the
book on your screen. I'm going to make a big, old,
gorgeous collage of slices reading and post it on my
social media, So make sure you make the cut. We
always love to hear from you, so hit us up
on email good game at wondermedianetwork dot com, or leave
us a voicemail at eight seven two two o four
fifty seventy, and don't forget to subscribe. Rate and review
(29:10):
It's real easy watch piece of shit degenerates who heckl
and harass athletes because they can't manage their gambling habits.
Rating five out of five or straining orders review. Over
the weekend, five time Olympic medalist Gabby Thomas competed in
Philadelphia at the third Grand Slam track meet of the season.
While she was warming up and while she was competing,
(29:32):
she was subjected to verbal abuse and the culprit is
apparently bragging about it online. After the meet, Thomas, who
finished fourth in the one hundred meter and second in
the two hundred meter at the meat, wrote on social
media that while she didn't get the results she hoped for,
she was grateful for all the support she received. Entered
the aforementioned piece of shit degenerate, who replied to Thomas's post, quote,
(29:53):
I made Gabby loose by heckling her, and it made
my parlay win. End quote. He went on to post
a video of the meet in which you can hear
someone yelling you're a choke artist. You're going down, Gabby,
along with two screenshots of bets. And it gets even worse.
Gabby replied to the post, writing quote, this grown man
followed me around the track as I took pictures and
(30:15):
signed autographs for fans, mostly children, shouting personal insults. Anybody
who enables him online is gross end quote. Absolutely disgusting
behavior from that dude, but good on Gabby for calling
him out. There's absolutely no excuse for harassing athletes based
on the bets that you make. Now it's your turn.
Rate and review slices. Give us five stars, tell us
(30:38):
you love us, Thanks for listening. See you Tomorrow. Good Game,
Delan Good Game writing a book you feelings of anxiety
about book reviews like I just said, give us five stars,
tell us you love us. It applies to the show
and the book, folks. Good Game with Sarah Spain is
an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue
(30:59):
Sports and Entertainment. You could find us on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by
Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones.
Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan,
and Emily Rutterer. Our editors are Emily Rutterer, Britney Martinez,
Grace Lynch, and Gianna Palmer. Our associate producers Lucy Jones
(31:21):
and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain.
Welcome to good Game of Sarah Spain, where I'm walking
into my local bookstore pointing to my book and bragging
to anyone who walks by. Hey, I wrote that. It's Tuesday,
June third, and on today's show, we're doing something a
little bit different and I got to address the elephant
in the room. And we're not talking about Ellie here.
I wrote a book about a man, and for that,
(00:22):
I'm sorry. There are women in the book, though, So
if you could stand to listen to a whole episode
that isn't about women's sports, I actually think you'll really
enjoy it. To celebrate the release of my book Runs
in the Family, an incredible true story of football, fatherhood
and belonging, I sat down last week with my co
author and the subject of the book, Raiders running backs
coach Dylan McCullough. We talk about the sometimes uncomfortable act
(00:46):
of excavating year past, the reactions of his friends and
family to the book, his emotions as launch day approached,
and the serendipitous and almost unbelievable circumstances of his new
job with Pete Carroll and the Raiders. Spoiler alert, y'all.
We've talked openly about the big reveal in this book
ever since our first story and e sixty feature ran
(01:06):
on ESPN a few years ago. But if you haven't
already heard it and you want to read the book
without knowing the twist, wait to listen to this episode
until after you've read or listened.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
To the book.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
My chat with Dylan, plus a WNBA reset, roster movement galore,
and how to switch teams but not owners is all
coming up right after this welcome back slices. Here's what
you need to know today. Let's start with the WNBA.
(01:39):
We're two weeks into the regular season, so let's take
a minute to step back and admire the standings and
the gap that's already emerging. At the top of the league,
you got the New York Liberty and Minnesota Links, both
undefeated through seven games. Then the middle of the PAC
teams including the five and two Atlanta Dream and Phoenix
Mercury anyone else surprised to see Phoenix all the way
up there. Then all the way at the bottom, we
(02:02):
got the one in six Dallas Wings and Connecticut Sun.
Worth noting that the tough start has inspired a roster
change for the Sun Already On Monday morning, the team
announced it had waived Robin Parks and signed Jalen Brown. Brown,
a six to one guard forward, played for the Dallas
Wings last season before getting traded to the Indiana Fever,
who waved her ahead of the regular season. So the
(02:23):
Sun already trying to make moves to improve things. Obviously,
still a lot of basketball to play this season, but
so far, it does look like Minnesota and New York
are gun in for that WNBA Finals rematch. More hoops,
The Golden State Valkyries may not be winning games yet,
but their fans are enjoying Balhalla. The new expansion team
(02:43):
is two and four, but the fans are showing up
and showing out. All three of their home games today
have been eighteen thousand plus person sellouts, including Sunday's eighty
six seventy five loss to the Minnesota Links, where they
made a real good run before coming up short down
the stretch. More WNBA. After all those injuries we mentioned yesterday,
it's not surprising we've got some hardship contract news to
(03:04):
report today down at Phoenix, Wherecalia Copper is still out
after arthroscopic knee surgery and alyssa Thomas is sidelined with
a calf injury. The Mercury signed Hayley Jones to a
hardship contract on Sunday. Drafted sixth overall in the twenty
twenty three WNBA draft after four seasons at Stanford, Jones
played forty games for the Atlanta Dream last season, but
was waved back in May. Meantime, in Indiana, is Caitlin Clark,
(03:27):
Sidney Colson, and Sophie Cunningham are all sidelined. The Fever
signed Airy McDonald to a hardship contract after wrapping up
her college career at Arizona in twenty twenty one. McDonald
played three seasons for the Dream, then spent twenty twenty
four with the Los Angeles Sparks before getting waved heading
into this season. Despite the circumstances, it's good to see
both of those players back in the w Can you
(03:48):
believe it even more? WNBA Los Angeles Sparks tweener Rakia
Jackson has missed her squad's past two games for quote
unquote personal reasons, and it's got some folks cyebrows. Race Jackson,
the number four pick in last year's draft, average over
thirteen points per game. In twenty twenty four. She's been
coming off the bench for new head coach Lynn Roberts
team lately, and her average is down to seven points
(04:11):
per game. On Sunday, an eagle eyed social media user
claims Rakia unfollowed the Sparks on Instagram and took mention
of the team out of her bio. We haven't confirmed this,
but we do know that Roberts was asked about Jackson
in a press conference on Sunday and had this to say,
per an ex post from John W. Davis of the
Long Beach Press Telegram response to Rakia, Rikey's a big
(04:33):
part of our organization and our team, and.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
She's taking personal time.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
And we support her and we're excited to get her back.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
When she's ready to be back.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
We'll keep you updated on this situation as it unfolds. Meantime,
I do want to shout out a bright spot on
the Sparks roster, Odyssey Simms. She shined on Sunday, putting
up thirty two points in her LA Sparks eighty five
eighty loss to the Mercury. It was sim first thirty
plus point game in six seasons. To Soccer Washington's spirit
(05:05):
coach Jonathan Heraldez is departing the team to take the
recently vacated head coaching position at French club Oel Lyon
both teams, the Spirit and oel are owned by Michelle
Kang's company Kiniska. Heraldez was hired by the Spirit last
January as one of the most sought after managers in
women's soccer after leading FC Barcelona Femini to two Women's
(05:26):
UEFA Champions League titles. He joined the Spirit Midsummer, and
his short time in Washington was highlighted by a runner
up finish in last year's NWSL championship game and a
Challenge Cup win to start the twenty twenty five season.
Spirit assistant coach Adrian Gonzalez, who served as the team's
interim head coach last season before herald has arrived, will
take over again as official head coach once Heralda's tenure
(05:49):
officially concludes in July. This is the sixth coaching change
since Kang became Washington's majority owner in twenty twenty two.
To the PWHL, today's the day that teams have to
submit a list of three players that they're protecting for
the upcoming Expansion Draft. Starting tomorrow, the five day exclusive
signing window begins. That's when Seattle and Vancouver will be
(06:10):
allowed to start negotiating with unprotected players. Both Vancouver and
Seattle will be allowed to sign five players each during
this period. Then on June ninth, it's the Expansion Draft,
where both teams will be able to build their rosters
out to include twelve players each. Like we said before,
only being allowed to protect three players from the jump
is wild. We're trying not to get too deep into
(06:32):
internet rumors and speculation about our favorite players getting snagged
and relocated. I don't know if I could say the
same for the players on those teams. If I were them,
I would be googlin' up a storm. Finally, some cool
news out of Chicago. The Chicago Color Neutral Stars formerly
Red Stars, may be losing most of their games, but
(06:52):
the team's president, Karen Litzo, is winning in the Illinois
General Assembly. Per release from the Stars, the Assembly quote
voting to pass House built twenty seven to seventy two,
a bill backed by the Chicago Stars that a men's
the Illinois Sports Facility Authority Act, known as the Equity Amendment.
This legislation ensures that if conversations are had regarding public
(07:13):
funding for sports facilities through ISFA, that women's professional sports
teams are to be considered, effectively securing women a seat
at the table, the bill will be sent to the
Governor's desk for his consideration. End quote. Now, if you
listen to the show, you know I often mentioned taxpayer
funds and city assistants as one of the many benefits
enjoyed by men's pro leagues but historically denied to women's leagues.
(07:36):
It feels like there's finally a push in a couple
different places to start demanding equal support and financial assistance
for women's stadiums and facilities too, which we love to see.
So shout out Chicago. We got to take a quick break, y'all.
When we come back, it's a big day for me
and my co author, Delan McCullough. Our chat is coming
up next joining me. He's one of football's premier running
(08:06):
back coaches, helping nearly twenty backs to one thousand plus
yard seasons. A five time national finalist for Top running
Back Coach, he played a key role in the chief
Super Bowl win helped Notre Dame get back to the
National Title Game last season and just join the staff
of the Las Vegas Raiders. He and I wrote a
book together about his incredible life. It's Delan McCullough. Hi, Delan, Hey,
how you doing.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Thank you? Thank you.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
I'm so excited to just chat about this book. We're
doing lots of interviews together, but me getting to interview
you is very fun and I want to spend most
of our time just you know, talking and not rehashing
the book. So I'm going to give a brief synopsis
so people kind of know what we're talking about, but
the goal is to get people to buy the book,
so we're not going to give all the good stuff. Basically,
you grew up. You were adopted Youngstown, Ohio, post industrial collapse.
(08:52):
So you had a young radio DJ and his wife
who adopted you, and when you were two years old,
the DJ decided to leave. Now you've got a single
mom with you and your brother Damon. In a pretty
tough time in Youngstown, she dealt with a turbulent divorce,
subsequent relationships that weren't always all that great. There was
some abuse, there were some drugs, and during all of
(09:14):
this you're just trying to figure out what your identity
is as both an adopted kid and as a person
who do I want to be? What do I want
to become? You find football. Football becomes a sanctuary. You
become a great player. Get recruited to play for Miami
of Ohio by a fellow Youngstown guy, Sherman Smith, who
had made it big in the NFL and came back
to recruit for is alma mater was coaching there, brought
(09:35):
you there. You break a bunch of records. Things are
going great. You think you're going to be in the NFL.
Injuries hit the NFL. Dream doesn't happen. You bounce around football.
You get into teaching. You get into coaching. You're making
a name for yourself as a coach, all while being
mentored by a handful of your coaches, including Sherman Smith.
You have four sons, and every time you have to
tell them, I'm just not sure what my history is.
(09:56):
I don't know my birth parents, I don't know my
medical history. And final in your early forties, the laws
change and you're able to find your birth certificate. You'll
find your mom within two days on Facebook. Turns out
she was a sixteen year old honor student who was
sent away to have you in private, went back to
school with no one. The wiser only told her parents,
and her cousin didn't even tell the dad because he
(10:17):
was already off to school and she didn't want to
disrupt his life. And you find her on Facebook and
ask her about her life. It turns out she was
in Youngstown, right down the street from you, but you
never knew. And you asked, you know who my dad is?
And she says, your dad is a man named Sherman Smith.
So it turns out your college football coach and mentor
of nearly thirty years was your dad all along. Now
(10:39):
it sounds like we're giving away the story, but I
promise you there is so much good stuff in this
that it's not really about the twist. It's about everything else.
So Deilan, I just want to ask you were just
a few days out from the official launch date of
the book. How are you feeling? What are the predominant emotions?
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I'm excited, you know.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
I'm looking forward to every getting a resonated message of
hope and overcoming adversity and searching for who you really
are and overcoming whatever it takes to find out those answers,
So I'm excited about it. There was some trepidation for
a little bit, of course, but I'm past that and
(11:19):
I'm excited about the message that the book.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Is going to say.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
I'm glad to hear that. I was worried about the trepidation.
I was trying to make sure I was supportive during that,
because it's tough to tell the whole world your story.
It's tough to unearth some of this stuff. But I
knew once we got to the end, it would not
only serve you and your family, but so many other
people who are going to read it. And I wonder
that trepidation. What was the toughest part for you in
figuring out, Okay, I'm opening up my life and my
(11:45):
family and my friends, not only to Sarah to tell
the story, but soon to the world.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
I'm a really quiet person, so I'm really reserved and
to myself, you know. But I think the story says
this that when I open up and let people in,
that there's things that people can learn from me. So,
you know, just just doing that kind of opening myself
up to other people. But again, I think the thing
(12:11):
that was overwriting for me is what people can learn
from this, and it was therapy in this for me too.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
I mean, it just.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Really was was immensely therapeutic for me, kind of going
through having these conversations, writing these things down, having it written.
At least that first draft was pretty hardcore, man, and
I was like, whoa, this is something. You know, when
you get it back the way that you got it back,
you don't realize how tough it is, you know, and
(12:37):
it makes you look yourself in the mirror. But once
we got through, we did kind of smoothed out some edges,
but not taking away the true flavor for what the
book is going to be.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
I'm excited to see what people get from Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
I remember I was sitting with my friends at dinner
getting ready to go see Madonna, and that was the
first text I got from you after I sent the
first draft. And a lot of people as they're writing book,
they're sort of like checking in chapter by chapter. But
I knew a lot of my interviews with you and
your family would cause me to revise things and go
back and change the order of things. So as we
(13:09):
were doing the interviews and talking, I was like, all right,
he's going to get the one big first draft and
then we'll work on it together. And I was so
nervous about what you might say, and you were super positive,
which I loved. But you also said I learned a lot.
And I said that to my friend. I was, oh,
I'm so glad he said he learned a lot. She's like,
it's his life, what does he have to learn? And
I'm like, girl, I read like nine books to prep
(13:29):
for this so I could make sure it wasn't just
about him but about all of us and how we
all get to make these choices about ourselves and our family.
And I was also really happy that throughout your brother
and some other members of your family were reading it
and really saying, you got me, you understood me, and
you told my story right. I wonder now that you've
shared the book with more of your friends and family,
(13:50):
were you surprised by anyone's reaction or feedback?
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Not really, you know what it was overall, it was
very positive. So what I sent to an array of
people now, like hey, friends from long time ago, recent
you know obviously you know, longstanding friends, people in my family,
different things like that.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Who I knew I would get the truth from. And
you know, at one point.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
I thought, I mean, I would get maybe one of
my cousins say, hey, this ain't a good idea.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Hey chapter six or chapter fifteen, this is going to
be a problem. But everyone was so supportive.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
Everybody, and I went into it and loaded it's saying, hey,
tell me the truth, tell me where you think it's
going to be some hot spots, just give me your
perspective on it.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
And it's been overwhelmingly positive. I didn't hear anything about
any issues or things like that.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
And I know it's not perfect, but it's going to
be pretty perfect in how it hits people's hearts and
hopefully it gives them some insight that can help elevate
things that they have going on in their own lives.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah, I'm so glad to hear that. It is scary
to tell stories, and we all have our own memories
of things. We all remember things differently. And one of
the most powerful things you said to me is you
were telling me these stories of your past and your
childhood and growing up and all these other things. Is
a conversation you had with your adoptive mom Adele. And
you said, listen, Ma, like I get that this is
(15:11):
how you remember this and I get that you're giving
me context that I didn't know as a kid about
why you made these choices or why these things happened.
But I was a kid and I didn't know that.
So this is how I took it then. And that's
the part we have to share, is not the revised
version of now I understand looking back, but how it
felt for you as a kid as a teen to
go through some of the tough times. And that was
(15:32):
really powerful. And I think that's why it's so useful
to really get your story out. When it lives in
your head, you can just keep editing as you go,
but there's something about putting it down and really being
honest about what it was. You know, one of the
big parts of this book is choice. You have been
very clear since the beginning that life did not happen
to you. You chose the person that you are. You
(15:53):
didn't let a tough childhood hold you back. You didn't
want to repeat the behaviors of some of the toxic
parents or parent figures that you had. Where do you
think you found that strength throughout your life to be
resilient and choose your own path, Maybe not the path
that would have been handed to you.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
That's a great question.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
I don't know, just just sitting there and hearing some
of the things that I heard, some of the things
I experienced, you know, just it was like a switch
was flipped and I was just saying, you know what,
I sat up one night and it's an argument or
whatever going on, and again, not being.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Disrespectful to anything, I just said, you know what, this
is not how my life is going to be when I.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Grow up and I'm in a position to have influence
or I have my own family, that it won't be
like this. So I took a lot of those lessons
that I learned to kind of reverse them, because you
would say, well, shoot, those are some bad things that
you've seen.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Why didn't you mimic them or what?
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Or they were things that you could end up kind
of falling victim to as far as your decision making,
And I said no.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
I looked at him as the reverse and said, look,
I'm glad.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
I said, I'm glad that I had these experiences because
it moted me into who I am, and I wanted
to be the opposite of let lesson.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, that's a through line something that your mom told
you when you were young, which was God gives you
a choice. You know you can. God gives you let's
you see good and bad, and you get to choose
what you want to be. And it feels like you
kept doing that. You know, it's really a book about you,
but about all of us and all of our families,
both birth and found families, and you know, I wanted
(17:27):
to be sure to write about it, and I wanted
to really understand how interesting it is to be handed
stuff via blood that's very obvious, DNA and genes, but
also what were handed via family messaging and lessons and traditions.
And it's so easy to sometimes take those things as
fact after you hear them over and over, the things
your parents always say, or the kind of throwaway lines
(17:47):
that they don't even recognize their repeating, and you start
to internalize it and you're like, well, that's how it is.
But I wanted folks who read it to consider that
while their genes are decided, they get to choose what
they passed down to their children. They get to choose
what they continue with their siblings, even with their parents.
You can go back and heal backwards. If you decide
something that you have with your family isn't serving you.
Did the book help you have some of those tough
(18:09):
conversations with your family? Did it bring up some stuff
through reading it that made you want to talk to
them about some of those choices.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
I mean it's interesting when you look back and you
talk about the habits or the tendencies you pick up
just based on how you were raising. I mean, and
I was aware of those things, you know, to a
degree as we went through the book, and I thought about, hey,
as a young you know, as a young person and
(18:37):
an young adult, just the way the structure of our
home was.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
And it wasn't anything wrong. A lot of people raised
like this. You didn't question authority, You didn't question some
things you didn't. You just kind of went with the flow.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
And I talk to people about the books, you know
right now, shoot a couple hours ago.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
That resonates with people.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
They say, look, I still do that today for me
in my home, I just said, look, I wanted people
to understand the why, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
This is what we're doing this for. Here's why this
is happening.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
And it was an open form where guys can have
a conversation about being so I didn't want it to
be a situation where hey, I'm grown, you just do
what I say do and all these different things, and
the same thing with my coach, and I'll try to
get the guy as the why and give them a
little bit of a voice and empower them to a degree. So, yes,
the book was therapeutic because it pulled all those layers.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Back and it also revealed to me a bunch of
things that I'm.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
I ain't I ain't closed the gap on yet, I
got I still got some things.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
I'm like, Wow, there's issues.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
There's things that were that are in the book to
make me say, I still need a whole lot of
things that I need to overhain.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah, are there new questions that you now have? Are
there things that you answered a lot about yourself and
where you came from, But now as you continue to
be a part of this new blended family, are there
new questions or goals that you have?
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Well, I mean, I just want to continue to grow
in my communication.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
You know, as I said here, I sent this to
one of my friends and they had asked, have you,
guys the people in the book have we addressed through counseling,
et cetera. Some of those things, and I said, no,
we haven't. And that was an interesting thing just to
think about. Like I'm kind of doing therapy in real
(20:21):
time like with the world, like people going get interviewed
and different things, and I say, how did you overcome this?
So how do you think about that? I'ma say, I'm
still figuring it out. Yeah, you know, and look, I'm
inviting you guys into that process that's going on right
now and just trying to work my way through it,
but again being as transparent as possible, and you know,
(20:42):
letting you know, bearing my scars in the process and
hopefully people learn from them because I'm still learning from
them right now.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
I love that there are a lot of people that
want to wait till they're at the quote unquote finished product,
but there is so much benefit to letting people see
the messy middle. I think you're past the middle. I
think you're further down the way the road than the middle.
But you're definitely not a finished product. None of us are.
I learned a lot about myself and my family by
doing this book, and I really took so much joy
(21:11):
in doing the research. All the books I read about
family systems and generational trauma and emotional DNA and all
that stuff. And I got to play therapist a little
in my desire to understand each person in the book
and why they made the choices they did and be
empathetic and intentional about why they became who they are.
And that's one of the things I think when you
get far enough in life and you realize that people
(21:33):
are the way they are because of things that happened
to them, things that happened around them, you tend to
be a little more empathetic. Even if they're jerk offs.
You tend to feel like they're they're that way because
of something, and could you help them through it instead
of just coming, you know, being at odds with them.
I wonder what's been the best part of the journey
(21:55):
of finding your birth parents Just.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
That connection, you know.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
I mean, you know, the conversations I have with my
dad and the conversations I have with my mom.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
I mean, those are like like.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
They complete a circle for me, you know, because forever,
especially on the father's side, I never had that dad
who I can just talk to about anything.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
I never had, you know, we had these figures, but
they weren't good figures.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
They definitely weren't figures that I would say, Hey, I
need to run something by you and have a conversation.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I never had.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
So I just think about the type of person I am,
how quiet I am, different things like that. Maybe having
that person outside of my brother that I felt like
I could just speak too freely, you know, it could
have helped me bridge some gap and maybe prevented some
things that happened in my early childhood as far as
some of my decision making. But all those are part
(22:49):
of the grand plan, you know, to get me where
I am.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
So but I do know the relationships I have.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
With my mom and my dad, and obviously my stepmom,
my brother and sisters and all the extended family has
been outstanding, and I just want to keep building on that.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
What's been the toughest part about finding your birth parents
and adding them into the mix, I.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Don't know, just not feeling like I'm slighting the family
that did everything, laid the foundation for everything. You know,
the family that you know eighty percent of the book
is about, you know that I that I grew up
around in my friends and those guardian angels that we
referred to in the book. You know, I don't want them,
(23:31):
and I sent message. How about it is, I send
messages to all of those guys. This is just a
lot of people in there, and they were just blown
away with I just.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Sent the message to them, thank you and here's what's coming,
and you were mentioned and different things like that, because
I don't want anybody to feel like, Wow, he got
to this point and all he's talking about is you
know what happened when his birth records.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Weren't you know.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
I don't want anybody to feel like I forgot the
impact that they had on me when I was ten
years old, eight years old, nineteen years.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Old, thirty years old.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
So it's important to me that everybody feels respected during
this whole process.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
So the toughest part is making sure that and it's
not tough, but I got to be intentional. Yeah, well,
letting those guys know how important they are to me.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
I'm really excited for you. The impact you're going to
have on some people in your life when you talk
about them in the book. That's so meaningful to people.
And I think even though we try to sometimes we
forget to tell people how we feel in the moment,
or we feel uncomfortable really expressing to people just what
they meant to us or our lives. And for those folks,
those Guardian Angels and a couple others in the book,
(24:35):
I think they're going to be really moved by the
impact they had on you. You're talking to me from
the Las Vegas Raiders facility. Your dad coached under Pete
Carroll with the Seahawks. You did a coaching internship with
the two of them way back when before you ever
knew that Sherman was your dad. Now you're coaching under
Pete Carroll with the Raiders. How has it been working
(24:56):
with Pete now that you both know the truth about
you and your dad?
Speaker 4 (25:00):
It's a real because he'll look and you just you'll
look across the table and you'll start laughing, like, man,
I feel like I'm looking at Shirm right. So it's
been great, you know, just the synergy between us. I think,
you know, the way he approaches things on a very
humanistic level, relationship level with.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Guys that really marries up with.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
My philosophy and the way that our attempt to build
football players and more importantly create positive young men and adults.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Obviously, you know.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
So, I mean it's been real cool, you know, right now,
just getting to know the guys and getting ready.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
For the season.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Well, I can't wait for people to read the book
and really understand how wild it is that you end
up coaching for Pete after your dad did that. You're
repeating so much of what he did in his life. Again.
I'm just really excited for the book to be out there.
I know you're older than me, but I'm proud of
you dealing for doing this and for being brave enough
to do it, and for all the people's lives you're
going to touch. I remember the first story we did
for ESPN, people coming to send us messages about their
(26:02):
stories of adoption or their wild ways that they learned
that someone in their life was part of their family.
And even the folks to message and said that they
looked for their birth parents and it didn't work out
well and it wasn't joyful, and what it meant to
them to see how things turned out for you. I
just think that's going to happen twenty fiftyfold with this book,
(26:23):
and I'm very excited for you to see what an
impact you can have on other people with just the
person that you are. I know it wasn't always easy
every step of the way, especially when you were sending
me your edits via text message and it was like
Chinese water torture, all debt boop boop boop. But that's
the process, and I'm really proud of us that we
did it, and I'm really excited for the book to
come out. So thanks for chatting with me.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
No, and I definitely want to say you know everybody,
I mean, you did outstanding and this the research, putting
everything together, the interviews, dealing with the text messaging, I
mean I was copying screen texts and send me all
these things.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
And just the fact that you had a vision.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
I mean, yes, we put we put everything in this blender,
but you put it out and kind of laid it
out in it's accinct manner that there's no I wouldn't
have thought about writing this on my own anyway, but
I couldn't think of a better person, especially as we're
going through the process, and now we are we I.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Guess we get into the finished line, but maybe the
starting line.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Is just the beginning.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah, the beginning.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
We're ending one part but opening up another. I'm excited
to see where this thing goes. But I just wanted
to tell you. I'm just honored and full of pride
that I had the opportunity to do this.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Yeah, I'm so grateful to you in your family. They
were so honest and welcoming and trusted me, and that's
a really big deal. All right, get back to work
and also leave work soon. What do you what do
you do? It's still at work.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Come on, I'm about to get up out of here
right now.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Man. Even after several years of working together, I'm still
surprised and intrigued by Delan's perspective on this whole journey.
So I love talking to him and hearing the emotions
that the book inspires and being reminded of how many
folks might be deeply affected by it. So grateful to
him for joining the show and for trusting me with
this story. We got to take another break, slices. When
we return, it's time to pull your cameras out. Welcome back, Slices.
(28:24):
We love that you're listening, but we want you to
get in the game every day too. So here's our
good game play of the day. When you get your
copy of Runs in the Family, since you already ordered it, obviously,
send me a photo of you reading the book. I
want to see you slices in your booknooks on your
picnic blankets, and atop your cozy couches, digging into what
Dylan and I worked so very hard on. You audiobook folks,
(28:47):
have someone take a photo of you listening with the
book on your screen. I'm going to make a big, old,
gorgeous collage of slices reading and post it on my
social media, So make sure you make the cut. We
always love to hear from you, so hit us up
on email good game at wondermedianetwork dot com, or leave
us a voicemail at eight seven two two o four
fifty seventy, and don't forget to subscribe. Rate and review
(29:10):
It's real easy watch piece of shit degenerates who heckl
and harass athletes because they can't manage their gambling habits.
Rating five out of five or straining orders review. Over
the weekend, five time Olympic medalist Gabby Thomas competed in
Philadelphia at the third Grand Slam track meet of the season.
While she was warming up and while she was competing,
(29:32):
she was subjected to verbal abuse and the culprit is
apparently bragging about it online. After the meet, Thomas, who
finished fourth in the one hundred meter and second in
the two hundred meter at the meat, wrote on social
media that while she didn't get the results she hoped for,
she was grateful for all the support she received. Entered
the aforementioned piece of shit degenerate, who replied to Thomas's post, quote,
(29:53):
I made Gabby loose by heckling her, and it made
my parlay win. End quote. He went on to post
a video of the meet in which you can hear
someone yelling you're a choke artist. You're going down, Gabby,
along with two screenshots of bets. And it gets even worse.
Gabby replied to the post, writing quote, this grown man
followed me around the track as I took pictures and
(30:15):
signed autographs for fans, mostly children, shouting personal insults. Anybody
who enables him online is gross end quote. Absolutely disgusting
behavior from that dude, but good on Gabby for calling
him out. There's absolutely no excuse for harassing athletes based
on the bets that you make. Now it's your turn.
Rate and review slices. Give us five stars, tell us
(30:38):
you love us, Thanks for listening. See you Tomorrow. Good Game,
Delan Good Game writing a book you feelings of anxiety
about book reviews like I just said, give us five stars,
tell us you love us. It applies to the show
and the book, folks. Good Game with Sarah Spain is
an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue
(30:59):
Sports and Entertainment. You could find us on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by
Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones.
Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan,
and Emily Rutterer. Our editors are Emily Rutterer, Britney Martinez,
Grace Lynch, and Gianna Palmer. Our associate producers Lucy Jones
(31:21):
and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain.
Host
Sarah Spain
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