September 29, 2025 • 34 mins
With the Las Vegas Aces-Indiana Fever semifinal series heading to a decisive game 5, Las Vegas Review-Journal reporter Callie Fin joins Sarah to discuss what didn’t work for the Aces in game 4, why Becky Hammon’s coaching decisions were partly to blame, and how the Tuckman Development Model is applicable everywhere, even the WNBA! Plus, a Sunday Funday for the Mercury, the Red Roses are in full bloom, and the NWSL playoffs have got the Spirit.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're starting
to believe in the power of Steph White's red leather Jacket.
The Jacket's undefeated streak continues. It's Monday, September twenty ninth
that on today's show, we'll be talking with Las Vegas
Review Journal reporter Kelly Finn about the Aces Fever series
going to a decisive game five, how the Fever have
pushed the Aces to the brink, and a dramatic season
(00:22):
in the desert for Becky Hammond's squad. Plus, the Red
Roses are in full bloom. WNBA semi final sagas and
the NWSL playoffs have got the spirit. It's all coming
up right after this. Welcome Max Slice's Happy Monday. Here's
(00:46):
what you need to know today to the WNBA, where
the Indiana Fever are not done yet. The Scrappy Bunch
continued to defy the odds, tying up their best of
five series with the Las Vegas Aces two games apiece
on Sunday with a ninety to eighty three win. Kelsey Mitchell,
Eliah Boston, and Odyssey Simms were a three headed monster
(01:07):
for the Fever, offensively scoring twenty five, twenty four and
eighteen points, respectively. Boston also added fourteen rebounds and five
assists in the win. Asia Wilson posted thirty one points
in the loss. Jackie Young had eighteen. The series now
shifts locations one last time with Game five Tuesday night
at Vegas's michelob Ultra Arena. We'll talk more about the
(01:28):
series with Callie Finn in just a few minutes.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
In the other.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
WNBA semifinal, the short handed Minnesota Links put up a
hell of a fight, but they couldn't get past Alyssa
Thomas and the Phoenix Mercury, who took Game four eighty
six to eighty one to win the series and advanced
to the WNBA Finals for the first time since twenty
twenty one. Kyle McBride put up a heroic effort for
the Links, straining six threes to the tune of a
(01:52):
new career playoff high thirty one points, and Jessica Shephard
was clutch in place of the injured Nafisa Collier with
fourteen points in seven boards in an increased role, but
the Mercury Stars shone too bright. Alyssa Thomas had a
near triple double twenty three points, ten assists and eight rebounds.
Satu Sobly put up twenty one and Dwana Bonner struggled
(02:13):
early but found her shot when it mattered most, hitting
a couple late threes that helped seal the deal. This
will be Thomas's third trip to the finals. Her previous
appearances were losses in twenty nineteen and twenty twenty two
with the Connecticut Sun and her fiance. Bonner's fourth time
making the finals. She was a part of that Sun
losing team in twenty twenty two, and she won championships
with the Mercury in twenty nine and twenty fourteen. Congrats
(02:37):
to the Mercury. They outperformed most expectations from experts at
the start of the season, especially after losing Dinah Trossi
to retirement and Britney Griner to free agency. They'll watch
Tuesday Nights aces Fever game five to see who their
finals opponent will be. As for the Links, a heartbreaking
end to a season in which they were the wire
to wire favorites and my heart sunk watching the FISA.
(02:59):
Collier have to sit on the bench for the last game.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
In case you missed it.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
At the end of Game three, of the series, Thomas
jumped a pass intended for Collier, making incidental contact that
caused the Link star to injure her left ankle. She
was in a boot and forced to miss the game,
and the Links were without head coach Cheryl Reeve as well.
Reeve became incensed after seeing Collier go down on the
Thomas Steele late in Game three. She stormed the court,
(03:24):
shouting at officials, had to be held back by Links personnel,
was assessed a technical foul her second of the game
and ejected. She continued to argue, didn't immediately leave the court,
screamed at a few fans even as she eventually left
the arena, and in the postgame presser, she didn't take
any questions. She instead used the time to make her
frustration with the officiating known. Here's a bit of what
she had to say.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
I want to call for a change of leadership at
the league level when it comes to officiating. It's bad
for the game. The officiating crew that we had to
for the leadership to deem those three people semi finals
(04:06):
playoff worthy is ol practice.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Associate head coach Eric Tebo got a technical for yelling
at the refs as well that game, and both he
and Reeve were also fined. Assistant coach and Links legend
Rebecca Brunson was fined as well for a post on
X after the game that read quote, yeah this happened.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Take out one of the.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Best players in the league because you have no control
of the game.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
It ended up being Tibo took the lead on the
sidelines for the Links in Game four in Reeves's absence.
He had the team up by as much as thirteen
in the final quarter, but like much of the series,
the Mercury closed much stronger than Minnesota and they erased
another late lead to grab the win. In rugby news,
England are the twenty twenty five Women's Rugby World Cup champs.
(04:51):
The Red Roses won the final thirty three to thirteen
over Canada on Saturday, stretching their unbeaten run to thirty
three matches and securing the trophy for the first time
since twenty fourteen, when they also beat Canada in the final.
This marks England's third World Cup trophy all time, and
a record eighty one thousand, eight hundred and eighty five
people were inside ali On Stadium in Twickenham, England, to
(05:15):
witness It. Sadilla Cobeya was named player of the game,
coming up huge with twenty tackles in the match to Soccer.
The Washington Spirit clinched their spot in the NWSL playoffs
on Sunday with a four nail win over the Houston Dash.
This is the Spirit's second straight playoff berth and sixth
all time. The win also extended the team's unbeaten streak
(05:35):
to six games.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Gift Monday was.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
The star of the show for Washington, scoring a hat
trick in the first half. The performance catabolted her up
to fourth place in the Golden Boot Race. She's now
got eight goals this season. Speaking of the Golden Boot Race,
ten Washaweinga took control of the top spot over the weekend,
scoring once in the Kansas City Current's for to one
win over the Chicago Stars on Friday. Sheweinga's now got
(05:58):
fourteen goals in twenty one games and has scored in
three straight matches. Showinga's teammate Debinia notched a goal for
Casey as well in that one. She's now got seventy
eight total tallies, tied with Sam Kerr for the third
most goals in league history. Lynn bian Doolo leads the
way with eighty two, followed by Christine Sinclair's seventy nine.
(06:18):
Low Labanta netted one for the Current in that contest
against the Stars as well, and was from the penalty spot,
her fourteenth penalty kick goal. She's now tied with Megan
Rapino for the most in NWSL history. Friday Has Went
over the Stars was the Current's eighteenth regular season dub,
extending the club's single season record and matching the NWSL
record for most wins in a single regular season, and
(06:40):
their fifty six points are a new club record for points.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
In a single season.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Now.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Chicago's lone goal in that one did snap the Currents
NWSL record streaks of nine shutout matches and eight hundred
and sixty nine shutout minutes, but that's a small consolation
for the Stars, who are officially out of playoff contention
After the loss and the NWSL Got Them FC continued
its own unbeaten streak with a three nail win over
(07:05):
the Portland Thorns. Friday Night Got Them has now won
its last six games and is unbeaten in its last nine.
For Portland, the loss was the team's largest defeat of
the season, and they've now got just one win in
their last seven games. The Thorns dropped a spot in
the standings. They're now sitting at fifth with four games
left to play. There are still a lot of potential
(07:25):
scenarios for the Thorns. They could still host a playoff game,
or they could miss the postseason entirely. The team is
only three points ahead of the ninth place North Carolina
Courage More on WSL. On Friday, the Orlando Pride earned
a two to one win over the San Diego Wave,
earning a full three points in a game for the
first time since June thirteenth. Not a lot of time
(07:48):
to celebrate for the Pride, though. They'll take the pitch
again on Tuesday in Mexico for a match against Club
America Feminil in CONCACAF W Champions Cup. That game will
be the pride first ever against Club America Menil.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
More Soccer.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
On Saturday, and Louisville Racing FC beat Angel City one
nil notch in a club record eighth win this season.
Louisville's twenty nine points are the most in the team's
five year history.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
They're on a.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Mission to make the playoffs for the first time in
franchise history, and as of this recording, they're currently hanging
on in eighth place. Also, huge congratulations to the Utah
Royals Aisha soler Zano, who buried the first goal of
her NWSL career in the royals two nil win over
BAFC on Saturday. She also became the first Guatemalan player
(08:32):
to score a goal in NWSL history. In gymnastics news,
Team USA's World selection camp begins today, but Olympic gold medalist,
reigning US champion and heavy favorite Hesley Rivera will not
be participating due to an ankle injury. This means she
will not be available for selection to the Gymnastics World
Championships team, set to compete next month. Rivera announced her
(08:54):
withdrawal from selection camp via Instagram story on Friday afternoon, writing,
in part quote, after talking through with my doctors and coaches,
I've decided the best thing right now is to sit
out of the World Selection camp. I'm definitely bummed about
the timing, but I'm excited to cheer on my teammates
and TEMUSA from home. My focus is on recovery and
coming back stronger in twenty twenty six end quote. Tmusa's
(09:16):
four member squad will buy for the World Championships in
Indonesia from October nineteenth to twenty fifth.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
We got to take a quick break.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
When we come back, we're talking Las Vegas Aces with
Callie Finn. We caught up with her on Sunday night,
following Indiana's Game four win, but ahead of the Links
Mercury contest that's next joining us for a second time.
(09:45):
She's a Las Vegas Aces and UNLV sports reporter for
the Las Vegas Journal Review, with previous stops at Yahoo Sports, ESPN,
Front Office Sports and The Sacramento Observer. She was a
college track athlete at UC Riverside in San Francisco State.
She just celebrated her one year wedding anniversary, and she
recently paused her Insta hiatus to share snaps from Beyonce's
Cowboy Carter Tour.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I am very jellyfish. It's Calli Finn, Hi.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
Cali Hi, Sarah. How's it going? Highlight of that show,
Destiny's Child's I couldn't believe my eyes. I literally just
stood there in awe because you know, I grew up
on Destiny's Child. That's like my generation, So to see
them all on stage at once, I don't think that
happens very often.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Ah, very jellyfish. Okay, you're joining us.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Just a couple hours after Game four of the Aces
Fever series. We are going to five a big win
for Indiana to send the series back to Vegas on
Tuesday night. Asia Wilson great again third fastest player to
a thousand playoff points, behind only Brianna Stewart and Dina
Trossi her seven to thirty plus point playoff game, but
it wasn't enough. I want to hear from you how
(10:51):
you think the Indiana Fever stumped the Aces and how
much do you think pace of play is coming in
to play in this series?
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Oh my gosh, I mean I think of play was
huge in this game. It was clear in the first
half to me that the Aces were not prepared for
the speed at which the Fever were playing with, and
so I think that was huge, and I think that's
how you saw some of the turnovers and things like
that that put them at the early deficit. I do
think though towards you know, in that fourth quarter, there
(11:21):
were opportunities for the Aces to still win and some
of that I think came down to coaching today, which
is not something that you can always say about the ACES.
I think Becky Hammond's a great coach, and she normally
once she wents out that clipboard, she's making great decisions.
But tonight she tried to call a timeout that she
didn't have, and even before that, there were just some
questionable rotational decisions in my opinion, that really costed the Aces.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Are you of an age where your brain immediately goes
Chris Webber, because that's what mine does.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
If you call a time out you don't have.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
That's what I thought. I mean, I know that that's
like when he was in college. I'm pretty here, but
I'm from Zacramento, so the Chris Webber lore is like
embedded into my brain. And so that was literally my
first thought. I'm like, no way, she's pulling a Chris
Webber with a shot to go to the finals on
the line here and they kind of I mean, I'm
covering it remotely. I'm still in Las Vegas. So there
(12:12):
was some foreshadowing because ESPN had a camera in the
huddle and she says she goes, I have two timeouts
in a reset, and in my head. I'm like, no,
you don't, please, do not try to do that. Yeah,
and Ryan Ruco was like, no, you don't exactly exactly.
So that was that was wild, And Chris Webber definitely
was the thought.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
I want to ask about roster decisions for the next
one based solely on pace, because you look at a
player like Megan Gustafson, who's got fifteen minutes in this game.
She looked winded to me early, I'm wondering if you
think they need to consider the lineup they're going with,
because I imagine that the Fever are going to come
right back with that same approach of trying to race
them off the court.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Yeah. I mean. I asked Becky Hammond about the rotation's
postgame and her whole thing was like, I played who
I thought was best in the moment, and of course
Melissa Smith was in foul trouble, so I guess that's
what informed her decision to roll with Main Gussisen down
the stretch. But Melissa Smith was an eighth and second
leading scorer in that last game that win, and I
(13:15):
think maybe that I would have thought that that would
have urged her kind of the benefit of the doubt
to like maybe take that risk and even have her
foul out. At least she's on the court, you know
what I mean. So that's like the way that I
viewed it. But I agree. I mean, I've I've asked
a lot about the lineups because you know, Kirsten Bell
has been in the starting lineup since Jule Lloyd decided,
(13:35):
I mean kind of forced Becky Hanmon to push her
to the bench. And Kirsten Bell has moments. I mean,
she had a moment today where she she hit a
really crucial three pointer and so this is no knock
on her, but I do think when you're trying to
put together like a faster lineup, somebody like Dana Evans,
I thought she'd have gotten a lot more minutes tonight
or today. And you know, Becky kind of just mentioned
(13:58):
that she didn't feel like Dana was impactful getting downhill
in this game as she was in the last one.
So I guess, you know, there are lots of things
that she probably needs to take into account. There's a
reason why I'm not a Hall of Fame coach and
she is. But like you know, maybe part of that
is that, you know, like there's a size aspect of
it too. If you have Dana on the court with
some of the other people you probably want to have
out there, then you have a smaller lineup than maybe
(14:20):
you want against the Fever, so interesting, interesting decisions to
be made.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
You're leading me right into my next question, which is
beyond pace. The other thing that really worked for Indiana
was their inside game, particularly Aliah Boston twenty four points,
fourteen rebounds.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
What did you see from her today?
Speaker 4 (14:40):
I mean, I thought, and this is gonna sound bad,
but she's played so physical like she is, and that's
really a strength to her game. And so it's funny
because afterward Asia Wilson kind of pointed out the free
throw discrepancy. I think that alia A Boston made it
to the line a lot more his game than Asia did.
(15:01):
But what I thought is that, you know, she was
just really aggressive from the start and that's what really
played to her benefit. And of course, like it's just
going to be interesting to keep watching Aliah Boston and
Asia Wilson battle. They're both former game Cocks, and I
know Don Staley is somewhere probably like just eating popcorn,
enjoying herself. But it's it's a really it's it's a
tense matchup. You know, you can tell that they're really wanting,
(15:25):
you know, to do their best against one another. And
so that's what Ali Austin did tonight.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yeah, you mentioned the free throws.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
The specific quote from Asia Wilson was Aliah did say,
I have a special whistle, which is cool. We've just
got to play better defense, make her looks difficult and
go from there. So she seemed to say the she
was on the other foot in this game. As you mentioned,
thirteen free throws for Aleiah Boston this one, she was
ten or thirteen from the line.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Overall.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
She had eleven free throws in the third quarter alone.
But it didn't look like foul played to me. It
looked like to your point, she was just very aggressive.
And we know that this is a Fever team that
needs to feast inside. They finished the regular season second
in the league in points in the paint. They had
been stymied inside through the games that the Aces won
in this series, So safe to say that the Aces
(16:13):
getting tough inside again will be key to their success
in Game.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
Five oh one hundred percent. I think that's going to
be a huge part of it. And also I think
controlling the pace of the game. They're going to need
to slow things down and look a lot more controlled
to win, but they'll have the home court advantage, which
I think will go a long way.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
What are the weaknesses in this Aces team that you've
seen the Fever exposed, because it did feel like we've
got before blowout and after blowout BB and AB for
this Aces team. They changed their season after that fifty
three point loss to the Links and they became a
new team and that seemed like.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
The quote unquote real Aces.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
So if we're talking just about that team, what are
the weaknesses that still exist even in a team that
can go on a win streak like that that the
Fever have found a way to expels.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Yeah, I mean, I think ball movement is a key one.
If the ball's not popping for the Aces, then things
are not going to go well. And I think that
there were lots of times where they just weren't able
to move the ball and ways that we've seen them
during that wind streak. So that's one. And then I
also think, just like defense, if you can if you
can get the Aces to look a step behind defensively
(17:23):
and start to look a little bit discombobulated defensively. Then
you've got the pre But what were we saying pre
bb like before blowout team, that's B.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
B and a B before blown and after a blowout.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Exactly like that's that's a huge part of it is defense,
and so tonight I thought their defense was lacking and
there were lots of times where the ball movement just
wasn't there. And it's unfortunate because when the ball's moving,
the ace st are so fun to watch, but that
really wasn't the case today.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
It's interesting you mentioned that because defense and sort of
just energy have been the two I think points of
contention for Becky Hammond all season and Game one of
this had that familiar feeling and aces team that didn't
have what Hammond called pep, which sometimes is just another
word for Asia Wilson having an off night and sometimes
is the whole team just not showing up, not being
(18:12):
consistently ready to put in the effort on defense, missing
layups like the fundamentals.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Can you get a feeling after.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Covering this team all season long why they sometimes have
those lapses and why it happened so often, particularly in
the first half of the season.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Oh, that's a good question. I mean, I think the
game that you're talking about, I think that was you know,
they opened the series game one without some pep, and
I think that one was a little bit more obvious
to me because Ajia Wilson is going through all these emotions,
the team's going through these emotions because she's being presented
with an unprecedented fourth MVP award. You know, that's a
big deal, even though she'd already received it. It's like
she's reliving the emotions again. And so I like anticipated that.
(18:51):
I had a feeling that they were just going to
be off, and they were, And so I think that
sometimes that's maybe that's like oversimplifying it, but a lot
of times it seems like when there are things going
on off the court, they might leach on to the
court for the ases. Now I'm not saying that that
was the case for the uh entirety of the rough
(19:12):
first half of the season. I think, you know, in
terms of like their energy and effort, a lot of
that was just like they're just trying to find some
cohesive flow and they were doing a lot of like
you know, storming, norming and performing. I guess this is
what they had going on, like it was, it was
just a process for them at first. But I do think,
you know, just for Game one, that one was pretty
(19:34):
obvious to me, like, Okay, they're gonna be off, and
they were.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
I'm not familiar with storming, norming, and performing. Will you
tell me what each of those mean in basketball context?
Speaker 4 (19:44):
Okay, well that's really even stocking storming. This is a
term that I learned, like in high school. I think
it's it's used in like corporate settings a lot like
it's it's when teams are you know, it's the phases
of becoming a cohesive team. You got a storm norm
until you can perform for the aces. I think the
storming was a lot of like figuring out people's roles
(20:06):
and also learning the defense. And I don't think and
to be honest, I still I've done a lot of
thought about the defense because they were they were incorporating
new things with new assistance, so that that's it was stormy.
It was a storm. Things were rough, nobody knew what
was going on, but then people found their roles and
then they found their norms, you know, like Joel Lloyd
(20:28):
really fit into her role, yes, and like they kind
of they got accustomed to a new defense. They also
threw out some of the things that they were trying
to do defensively that weren't working and all. Then they
incorporated these like you know, player led defensive scouts. Like
that's storming and normy in a corporate sense. Yeah, and
(20:49):
so now they're performing.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
You're really teaching me here, Yeah, you're really teaching me here.
I just looked it up. Apparently there's a man by
the name of Bruce Tuckman who in nineteen sixty five
proposed a model of group development called forming, storming, norming, performing,
and he said all those faces are necessary and inevitable
for a team to grow, face up to challenges, tackle problems,
find solutions, and deliver results.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah, it's known as the Tuckman ladder.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
So look at you, just grabbing some random ass Bruce
Tuckman development model from nineteen sixty five and definitely applying
it to the team.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
You cover something I've never heard of.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
I have learned enough already for this interview to be
a success. Let's talk the most important thing, which is
Steph White's red leather jacket is allegedly undefeated. Someone at
the ACE has got to tie that thing up at
the dry cleaner's. Huh.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Someone's got to get that out of her clutches.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Yes, I just learned that today. I saw to me
about the red leather jacket. I had no idea. Apparently
this stretches back. This is stretched back to the Connecticut sun.
Even like this is a real thing. All I know
is the Aces have something similar. It's not I don't
think it's as well documented. But when the whole team
wears the like Hammond blazer hoodie, I call it the
(22:01):
Blizziti combo. When there's like this red one and black
one with the whole staff will wear, they have a
pretty good record when they unite. In that sense. That
means that beck and Hammond also has to wear the
black blazer with the red hoodie. Somebody's gonna have to
actually do. Like the stats, I don't know, but I'm
sure that number is good because it doesn't happen very often,
and I normally notice it in wins when they're like
(22:23):
united with the Blazziti.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Would help if they were united both with the Blizzuriti
but also in how many timeouts they have, because I'm
pretty sure that's also one of her assistant coaches and
staff members responsibility to make sure she knows exactly how
many they have. I want to ask you, Cheryl Reeve
after Game three of that series accuse the League of
quote unquote malpractice for assigning the certain officials.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
She had a lot of criticism of how the game
was called.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
That same group of officials worked today's game four between
the Aces and fever. You got a grade for them.
What did you think of the call today? Did it
feel right?
Speaker 2 (22:56):
How things went?
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Did it feel right? You know what? To be honest,
I was watching the game and thinking, I don't know
about some of these calls. I'm a little bit confused
by some of them. And I think, I mean, there
was one where, like I think it was like Leah
Boston felt to the floor and then somehow like Melissa
Smith got called for a foul and I was like,
wait a minute, this doesn't even make sense. But you know,
(23:18):
obviously Becky has been quite vocal about the officiating. He
knew what she was walking into. Because Cheryl, like Becky,
has been so vocal about the officiating that Cheryl Reeve
referenced Becky in her comments that helped her get suspended.
So clearly like Becky knows what she's going into. It
shouldn't really come has to come down to officiating. But
(23:38):
the differential tonight was significant. I think the Aces had
like eleven free throw attempts as a team and the
Fever had something closer to like thirty something. You have
to check my math on. I don't know the numbers.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Aces had eleven and the Fever had thirty four. Ooh, yeah,
it was a big difference. I personally watching it with
the eye test, there were a couple that I was like,
that didn't seem right, But for the most part, it
just felt like there was a much more aggressive game,
both in terms of pace and approach from the Fever.
So sometimes those discrepancies are decided by style of play.
(24:12):
There were a couple that were a little head scratching,
but certainly nothing to get ejected and suspended over tonight.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Right, No, definitely nothing like that.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
What do you need to see from the Aces on
Tuesday night to get a win in Game five in
advance to the WNBA Finals.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
Well, they're gonna need what they got from Asia, like
a bare minimum. I know that. You know, you talk
a lot about how like she can have an off
night and this type of thing, but like she cannot
afford to have any kind of off night and this
this really important game five, So I think that's going
to be a huge part of it. But also they're
(24:51):
supporting cast, Like I think the Guard play tonight. There
were some moments where I was just like, I don't
really understand what's going on, So that's gonna have to
be super And then like we talked about defense, that's
going to be huge and just controlling the pace. I
don't think that you can get caught into the type
of game that the Fever are gonna want to play,
because they're going to want to get you in transition
(25:13):
and do all these different things, and the Aces can't
really keep up with that unfortunately, so they got to
just stay composed and keep the game controlled.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
I want to zoom out just a little, because you're
about as close to this Aces team as someone can get.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
You been covering them all season long.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
What did you notice about them before and after that
big blowout BB and AB that marked that season pivot point?
Could you tell by going to practice or games or
interviewing players or talking to Becky was there a shift
that was noticeable because that was an incredible.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Season saving change for them.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Whatever it was that happened after they got blown them out,
they came back and they were different.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
Yeah, that's a really good question. I don't I don't
know if I've thought about it in that sense, because
to me, I'm mean, I hite to go back to
the story ignorming before me. But I really think it
was like a gradual process. I think I've even seen
people try to point to these like player led defensive
scouts the days that started doing and being like, well,
that was the turning point, but it was not the
turning point because they actually started that before they took
(26:14):
their historic fifty three point loss to the Minnesota Links.
They were like they were doing well with that for
like two games before the loss of the Links, they
were still doing the defensive scout, you know. Dir Like
with that loss happened, but they continued, you know. So
I don't think it's as simple as a lot of
people try to make it seem. I do think Asian
Wilson's leadership is something that has really just stood out
(26:37):
to me throughout and I think definitely kind of ratshet
it up. Like when things started turning around. So I think, absolutely,
she's this is her team and we all know that,
and she's i think consistentlycently been a vocal leader. But
I think especially this year, like the links that she's
gone to, Like I've had players tell me that she
(26:57):
sends them like individualized text message is and it's like
pulling them aside and doing all these different things. And
so that is something that I think stands out to me,
is like Asia Wilson really stepping into her role as
a leader. And but again I don't think that that
was like before and after losing streak. It just kind
of it was something she had to kind of grow
into just s gradual.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yeah, what about Becky Hammond? Did you see her shift
style at all, whether it's approach to the game plan,
whether it's approached to how she handled her players and
talked to them to get the most out of this
particular group.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
I think, you know, last year was my first season
covering this team, and last year was a different group,
and I watched her yell a lot, and I watched
her be really tough with that group, and so I
think that that's kind of what I came to expect
from her. And I've spoken about this before, but this
year I saw I've seen a lot less of that.
Just it's been a completely different Becky. Like, obviously, yes,
(27:52):
she is gonna yell because she's Becky Hammond. That's like
part of what she's going to do. But so much
of what I've seen from her seemed a lot more
like gentle, you know, she's really trying to like understand
what everybody needs and be you know, really receptive. And
I do think that Becky Hammond is someone who, I mean, respectfully,
(28:13):
she seems like she could be a little bit stubborn.
I think that she has like a way that she
wants things to be, and I think that this year
she's been forced out of that a little bit, even
with Joel Lloyd not being like the you know, star
starter that maybe we all imagined that she would be
when she was traded to the Aces. So I think
that that's part of it. But like, I don't know,
(28:36):
I think she just seems a lot more flexible, and
she's like pouring into these players a lot more as people.
Not to say that she didn't do that in the past,
but like, you know, she's giving gifts to people, she
gave plants to people at the start of the season,
with like individualized messages and all these different things that
I never heard of her doing last year. She's going
to one on one dinners with Ricky's like Leah and
(28:58):
I to get them out of shooting slumps. And these
are all things that are new to me and seem
like they were just kind of because of what this
group required.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Sign of a good leader to know that everybody is
going to be motivated differently and to say I am
stubborn about what I think works, but if it's not work,
and then I got to figure out if these people
need something else. Last quick question for you. I know
certain WNBA reporters across the last couple of seasons in particular,
have faced the wrath of some very rabid fans. How
has the season been for you covering this team that
(29:30):
has had such highs and lows. I don't know if
you were critical of them in any of your stories
midway through when that things looked really dire, and just
has it been an enjoyable, interesting season for you because
of the highs and lows or more like pulling your
hair out.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
Oh my goodness, that's a great question. I don't know
if this is like directly what you're asking, but I
will say last year I struggled more with like the
feedback and things like that that I received than I
have this year, because I think last year not only
was I new to the job, but it was also
just like an unprecedented time we were dealing with, like
the influx of fans and kind of newcomers. I think
(30:08):
to the league that company, the arrival of all All
Star rookie Kayln Clark, you know, that was that was
a really huge thing that impacted my experience, and I
think I dealt with a lot of negativity covering the
ass I think Asia Wilson was positioned almost as like
an anti I don't even it wasn't even just Asia,
(30:30):
it was like the whole team. But there was just
a lot of negativity that I dealt with last year.
And then I think that this year it's been different,
you know, like you said, it's more like this team
is struggling more than it has in the past. And
so sure, I definitely wrote critical stories, but that's like
part of the job, and I never really I never
really had issues with that. I think, even like having
(30:52):
one on one interviews with Nikki Fargus, who's the president
and almost like acting GM of the the team, and
how I mean to ask questions like hey, like why
did you guys do this? Why did you treat a
first round pick for Melissa Smith? And kind of having
to be a little bit harder like that didn't bother
me at all. Having to be like the only one
asking questions and after losses and things like that, that's
(31:13):
like normal struggles. So I appreciate these struggles versus the
ones that I had last year.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Agreed, I just like keeping tabs on how things are going.
I'm very fascinated by this inflection point in the league,
and very empathetic to the folks, especially newbies in the
business that are like what I'm like.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Sit down, youngster, let me talk to you about the Internet.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
I should have probably reached out to you during the
time like I had like last year of people I
had people calling me Bracis were like, you know, if
if I didn't, it's just crazy wild things about like
just the way that like Kaitlyn Park was covered and
I wasn't even really directly covering her. It only be
like the games that I had to cover where the
Fever were playing with the Aces and it was just
(31:54):
really crazy. It was a crazy time.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Onward and upboard hopefully.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
And speaking of that, we've now reached the final stage
added actually by Tuckman in nineteen seventy seven, adjourning, which
is when you break the group up after they have performed.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
So we have to adjourn this interview anyway. I will
never break up with you.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
We hope the Aces aim to avoid that on Tuesday
night and continue performing by making it to the finals.
Thanks so much for the time, Calli appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Thanks so much to Calli for joining us. We got
to take another break when we come back. Superstar side quests.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Welcome Backslics.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
You know that we love when you listen, but we
want you to get in the game every day too.
So here's our good game play of the day. It's
an easy one. Follow Calli if you aren't already. She's
pretty awesome and her work is excellent. We'll link to
our social media accounts in our show notes. We always
love to hear from you, so hit us up on
email Good game at wondermedianetwork dot com or leave us
a joy smail at eight seven two two o four
(33:02):
fifty seventy and don't forget to subscribe, rate and review slaces.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
I tell you every time, it's so easy.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Watch Hooper's proven that they're more than just basketball players,
rating ten out of ten. Impressive side Quests review, no
shutting up and dribbling here. Women's hoopstars are showing up
off the court in some incredible ways, including the Las
Vegas Aces, Megan Gustafson releasing a children's book called Pancakes
(33:30):
Passport about her adventures with her Corgie Pancake, and the
Chicago Sky's Angel Reese making her feature film debut alongside
Idris Elba in Catherine Bigelow's A House of Dynamite, which
you can watch now on Netflix. College bawlers are getting
in on the action two with the Queen of side
Quests herself, Flage Johnson, adding cover Girl to her titles,
(33:51):
gracing the September cover of Teen Vogue. We're glad she
found some time to glam up in between running wind sprints.
If you haven't seen Flage playful Beef with LSU coach
Kim Moulke, we'll link to the instaclips in the show
notes Now it's your turn slices, rate and review. Thanks
for listening, See you tomorrow. Good Game CALLI Good Game
(34:11):
England Red Roses few incidental contact. It's no one's fault, really,
but damn it, it sucks when it results in injuries.
Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You
can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
(34:32):
wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network,
our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive
producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder.
Our editors are Emily Rutter, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and
Gianna Palmer. Our associate producer is Lucy Jones. Production assistance
(34:52):
from Avery Loftus and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're starting
to believe in the power of Steph White's red leather Jacket.
The Jacket's undefeated streak continues. It's Monday, September twenty ninth
that on today's show, we'll be talking with Las Vegas
Review Journal reporter Kelly Finn about the Aces Fever series
going to a decisive game five, how the Fever have
pushed the Aces to the brink, and a dramatic season
(00:22):
in the desert for Becky Hammond's squad. Plus, the Red
Roses are in full bloom. WNBA semi final sagas and
the NWSL playoffs have got the spirit. It's all coming
up right after this. Welcome Max Slice's Happy Monday. Here's
(00:46):
what you need to know today to the WNBA, where
the Indiana Fever are not done yet. The Scrappy Bunch
continued to defy the odds, tying up their best of
five series with the Las Vegas Aces two games apiece
on Sunday with a ninety to eighty three win. Kelsey Mitchell,
Eliah Boston, and Odyssey Simms were a three headed monster
(01:07):
for the Fever, offensively scoring twenty five, twenty four and
eighteen points, respectively. Boston also added fourteen rebounds and five
assists in the win. Asia Wilson posted thirty one points
in the loss. Jackie Young had eighteen. The series now
shifts locations one last time with Game five Tuesday night
at Vegas's michelob Ultra Arena. We'll talk more about the
(01:28):
series with Callie Finn in just a few minutes.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
In the other.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
WNBA semifinal, the short handed Minnesota Links put up a
hell of a fight, but they couldn't get past Alyssa
Thomas and the Phoenix Mercury, who took Game four eighty
six to eighty one to win the series and advanced
to the WNBA Finals for the first time since twenty
twenty one. Kyle McBride put up a heroic effort for
the Links, straining six threes to the tune of a
(01:52):
new career playoff high thirty one points, and Jessica Shephard
was clutch in place of the injured Nafisa Collier with
fourteen points in seven boards in an increased role, but
the Mercury Stars shone too bright. Alyssa Thomas had a
near triple double twenty three points, ten assists and eight rebounds.
Satu Sobly put up twenty one and Dwana Bonner struggled
(02:13):
early but found her shot when it mattered most, hitting
a couple late threes that helped seal the deal. This
will be Thomas's third trip to the finals. Her previous
appearances were losses in twenty nineteen and twenty twenty two
with the Connecticut Sun and her fiance. Bonner's fourth time
making the finals. She was a part of that Sun
losing team in twenty twenty two, and she won championships
with the Mercury in twenty nine and twenty fourteen. Congrats
(02:37):
to the Mercury. They outperformed most expectations from experts at
the start of the season, especially after losing Dinah Trossi
to retirement and Britney Griner to free agency. They'll watch
Tuesday Nights aces Fever game five to see who their
finals opponent will be. As for the Links, a heartbreaking
end to a season in which they were the wire
to wire favorites and my heart sunk watching the FISA.
(02:59):
Collier have to sit on the bench for the last game.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
In case you missed it.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
At the end of Game three, of the series, Thomas
jumped a pass intended for Collier, making incidental contact that
caused the Link star to injure her left ankle. She
was in a boot and forced to miss the game,
and the Links were without head coach Cheryl Reeve as well.
Reeve became incensed after seeing Collier go down on the
Thomas Steele late in Game three. She stormed the court,
(03:24):
shouting at officials, had to be held back by Links personnel,
was assessed a technical foul her second of the game
and ejected. She continued to argue, didn't immediately leave the court,
screamed at a few fans even as she eventually left
the arena, and in the postgame presser, she didn't take
any questions. She instead used the time to make her
frustration with the officiating known. Here's a bit of what
she had to say.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
I want to call for a change of leadership at
the league level when it comes to officiating. It's bad
for the game. The officiating crew that we had to
for the leadership to deem those three people semi finals
(04:06):
playoff worthy is ol practice.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Associate head coach Eric Tebo got a technical for yelling
at the refs as well that game, and both he
and Reeve were also fined. Assistant coach and Links legend
Rebecca Brunson was fined as well for a post on
X after the game that read quote, yeah this happened.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Take out one of the.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Best players in the league because you have no control
of the game.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
It ended up being Tibo took the lead on the
sidelines for the Links in Game four in Reeves's absence.
He had the team up by as much as thirteen
in the final quarter, but like much of the series,
the Mercury closed much stronger than Minnesota and they erased
another late lead to grab the win. In rugby news,
England are the twenty twenty five Women's Rugby World Cup champs.
(04:51):
The Red Roses won the final thirty three to thirteen
over Canada on Saturday, stretching their unbeaten run to thirty
three matches and securing the trophy for the first time
since twenty fourteen, when they also beat Canada in the final.
This marks England's third World Cup trophy all time, and
a record eighty one thousand, eight hundred and eighty five
people were inside ali On Stadium in Twickenham, England, to
(05:15):
witness It. Sadilla Cobeya was named player of the game,
coming up huge with twenty tackles in the match to Soccer.
The Washington Spirit clinched their spot in the NWSL playoffs
on Sunday with a four nail win over the Houston Dash.
This is the Spirit's second straight playoff berth and sixth
all time. The win also extended the team's unbeaten streak
(05:35):
to six games.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Gift Monday was.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
The star of the show for Washington, scoring a hat
trick in the first half. The performance catabolted her up
to fourth place in the Golden Boot Race. She's now
got eight goals this season. Speaking of the Golden Boot Race,
ten Washaweinga took control of the top spot over the weekend,
scoring once in the Kansas City Current's for to one
win over the Chicago Stars on Friday. Sheweinga's now got
(05:58):
fourteen goals in twenty one games and has scored in
three straight matches. Showinga's teammate Debinia notched a goal for
Casey as well in that one. She's now got seventy
eight total tallies, tied with Sam Kerr for the third
most goals in league history. Lynn bian Doolo leads the
way with eighty two, followed by Christine Sinclair's seventy nine.
(06:18):
Low Labanta netted one for the Current in that contest
against the Stars as well, and was from the penalty spot,
her fourteenth penalty kick goal. She's now tied with Megan
Rapino for the most in NWSL history. Friday Has Went
over the Stars was the Current's eighteenth regular season dub,
extending the club's single season record and matching the NWSL
record for most wins in a single regular season, and
(06:40):
their fifty six points are a new club record for points.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
In a single season.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Now.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Chicago's lone goal in that one did snap the Currents
NWSL record streaks of nine shutout matches and eight hundred
and sixty nine shutout minutes, but that's a small consolation
for the Stars, who are officially out of playoff contention
After the loss and the NWSL Got Them FC continued
its own unbeaten streak with a three nail win over
(07:05):
the Portland Thorns. Friday Night Got Them has now won
its last six games and is unbeaten in its last nine.
For Portland, the loss was the team's largest defeat of
the season, and they've now got just one win in
their last seven games. The Thorns dropped a spot in
the standings. They're now sitting at fifth with four games
left to play. There are still a lot of potential
(07:25):
scenarios for the Thorns. They could still host a playoff game,
or they could miss the postseason entirely. The team is
only three points ahead of the ninth place North Carolina
Courage More on WSL. On Friday, the Orlando Pride earned
a two to one win over the San Diego Wave,
earning a full three points in a game for the
first time since June thirteenth. Not a lot of time
(07:48):
to celebrate for the Pride, though. They'll take the pitch
again on Tuesday in Mexico for a match against Club
America Feminil in CONCACAF W Champions Cup. That game will
be the pride first ever against Club America Menil.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
More Soccer.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
On Saturday, and Louisville Racing FC beat Angel City one
nil notch in a club record eighth win this season.
Louisville's twenty nine points are the most in the team's
five year history.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
They're on a.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Mission to make the playoffs for the first time in
franchise history, and as of this recording, they're currently hanging
on in eighth place. Also, huge congratulations to the Utah
Royals Aisha soler Zano, who buried the first goal of
her NWSL career in the royals two nil win over
BAFC on Saturday. She also became the first Guatemalan player
(08:32):
to score a goal in NWSL history. In gymnastics news,
Team USA's World selection camp begins today, but Olympic gold medalist,
reigning US champion and heavy favorite Hesley Rivera will not
be participating due to an ankle injury. This means she
will not be available for selection to the Gymnastics World
Championships team, set to compete next month. Rivera announced her
(08:54):
withdrawal from selection camp via Instagram story on Friday afternoon, writing,
in part quote, after talking through with my doctors and coaches,
I've decided the best thing right now is to sit
out of the World Selection camp. I'm definitely bummed about
the timing, but I'm excited to cheer on my teammates
and TEMUSA from home. My focus is on recovery and
coming back stronger in twenty twenty six end quote. Tmusa's
(09:16):
four member squad will buy for the World Championships in
Indonesia from October nineteenth to twenty fifth.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
We got to take a quick break.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
When we come back, we're talking Las Vegas Aces with
Callie Finn. We caught up with her on Sunday night,
following Indiana's Game four win, but ahead of the Links
Mercury contest that's next joining us for a second time.
(09:45):
She's a Las Vegas Aces and UNLV sports reporter for
the Las Vegas Journal Review, with previous stops at Yahoo Sports, ESPN,
Front Office Sports and The Sacramento Observer. She was a
college track athlete at UC Riverside in San Francisco State.
She just celebrated her one year wedding anniversary, and she
recently paused her Insta hiatus to share snaps from Beyonce's
Cowboy Carter Tour.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I am very jellyfish. It's Calli Finn, Hi.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
Cali Hi, Sarah. How's it going? Highlight of that show,
Destiny's Child's I couldn't believe my eyes. I literally just
stood there in awe because you know, I grew up
on Destiny's Child. That's like my generation, So to see
them all on stage at once, I don't think that
happens very often.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Ah, very jellyfish. Okay, you're joining us.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Just a couple hours after Game four of the Aces
Fever series. We are going to five a big win
for Indiana to send the series back to Vegas on
Tuesday night. Asia Wilson great again third fastest player to
a thousand playoff points, behind only Brianna Stewart and Dina
Trossi her seven to thirty plus point playoff game, but
it wasn't enough. I want to hear from you how
(10:51):
you think the Indiana Fever stumped the Aces and how
much do you think pace of play is coming in
to play in this series?
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Oh my gosh, I mean I think of play was
huge in this game. It was clear in the first
half to me that the Aces were not prepared for
the speed at which the Fever were playing with, and
so I think that was huge, and I think that's
how you saw some of the turnovers and things like
that that put them at the early deficit. I do
think though towards you know, in that fourth quarter, there
(11:21):
were opportunities for the Aces to still win and some
of that I think came down to coaching today, which
is not something that you can always say about the ACES.
I think Becky Hammond's a great coach, and she normally
once she wents out that clipboard, she's making great decisions.
But tonight she tried to call a timeout that she
didn't have, and even before that, there were just some
questionable rotational decisions in my opinion, that really costed the Aces.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Are you of an age where your brain immediately goes
Chris Webber, because that's what mine does.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
If you call a time out you don't have.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
That's what I thought. I mean, I know that that's
like when he was in college. I'm pretty here, but
I'm from Zacramento, so the Chris Webber lore is like
embedded into my brain. And so that was literally my
first thought. I'm like, no way, she's pulling a Chris
Webber with a shot to go to the finals on
the line here and they kind of I mean, I'm
covering it remotely. I'm still in Las Vegas. So there
(12:12):
was some foreshadowing because ESPN had a camera in the
huddle and she says she goes, I have two timeouts
in a reset, and in my head. I'm like, no,
you don't, please, do not try to do that. Yeah,
and Ryan Ruco was like, no, you don't exactly exactly.
So that was that was wild, And Chris Webber definitely
was the thought.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
I want to ask about roster decisions for the next
one based solely on pace, because you look at a
player like Megan Gustafson, who's got fifteen minutes in this game.
She looked winded to me early, I'm wondering if you
think they need to consider the lineup they're going with,
because I imagine that the Fever are going to come
right back with that same approach of trying to race
them off the court.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Yeah. I mean. I asked Becky Hammond about the rotation's
postgame and her whole thing was like, I played who
I thought was best in the moment, and of course
Melissa Smith was in foul trouble, so I guess that's
what informed her decision to roll with Main Gussisen down
the stretch. But Melissa Smith was an eighth and second
leading scorer in that last game that win, and I
(13:15):
think maybe that I would have thought that that would
have urged her kind of the benefit of the doubt
to like maybe take that risk and even have her
foul out. At least she's on the court, you know
what I mean. So that's like the way that I
viewed it. But I agree. I mean, I've I've asked
a lot about the lineups because you know, Kirsten Bell
has been in the starting lineup since Jule Lloyd decided,
(13:35):
I mean kind of forced Becky Hanmon to push her
to the bench. And Kirsten Bell has moments. I mean,
she had a moment today where she she hit a
really crucial three pointer and so this is no knock
on her, but I do think when you're trying to
put together like a faster lineup, somebody like Dana Evans,
I thought she'd have gotten a lot more minutes tonight
or today. And you know, Becky kind of just mentioned
(13:58):
that she didn't feel like Dana was impactful getting downhill
in this game as she was in the last one.
So I guess, you know, there are lots of things
that she probably needs to take into account. There's a
reason why I'm not a Hall of Fame coach and
she is. But like you know, maybe part of that
is that, you know, like there's a size aspect of
it too. If you have Dana on the court with
some of the other people you probably want to have
out there, then you have a smaller lineup than maybe
(14:20):
you want against the Fever, so interesting, interesting decisions to
be made.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
You're leading me right into my next question, which is
beyond pace. The other thing that really worked for Indiana
was their inside game, particularly Aliah Boston twenty four points,
fourteen rebounds.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
What did you see from her today?
Speaker 4 (14:40):
I mean, I thought, and this is gonna sound bad,
but she's played so physical like she is, and that's
really a strength to her game. And so it's funny
because afterward Asia Wilson kind of pointed out the free
throw discrepancy. I think that alia A Boston made it
to the line a lot more his game than Asia did.
(15:01):
But what I thought is that, you know, she was
just really aggressive from the start and that's what really
played to her benefit. And of course, like it's just
going to be interesting to keep watching Aliah Boston and
Asia Wilson battle. They're both former game Cocks, and I
know Don Staley is somewhere probably like just eating popcorn,
enjoying herself. But it's it's a really it's it's a
tense matchup. You know, you can tell that they're really wanting,
(15:25):
you know, to do their best against one another. And
so that's what Ali Austin did tonight.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yeah, you mentioned the free throws.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
The specific quote from Asia Wilson was Aliah did say,
I have a special whistle, which is cool. We've just
got to play better defense, make her looks difficult and
go from there. So she seemed to say the she
was on the other foot in this game. As you mentioned,
thirteen free throws for Aleiah Boston this one, she was
ten or thirteen from the line.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Overall.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
She had eleven free throws in the third quarter alone.
But it didn't look like foul played to me. It
looked like to your point, she was just very aggressive.
And we know that this is a Fever team that
needs to feast inside. They finished the regular season second
in the league in points in the paint. They had
been stymied inside through the games that the Aces won
in this series, So safe to say that the Aces
(16:13):
getting tough inside again will be key to their success
in Game.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
Five oh one hundred percent. I think that's going to
be a huge part of it. And also I think
controlling the pace of the game. They're going to need
to slow things down and look a lot more controlled
to win, but they'll have the home court advantage, which
I think will go a long way.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
What are the weaknesses in this Aces team that you've
seen the Fever exposed, because it did feel like we've
got before blowout and after blowout BB and AB for
this Aces team. They changed their season after that fifty
three point loss to the Links and they became a
new team and that seemed like.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
The quote unquote real Aces.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
So if we're talking just about that team, what are
the weaknesses that still exist even in a team that
can go on a win streak like that that the
Fever have found a way to expels.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Yeah, I mean, I think ball movement is a key one.
If the ball's not popping for the Aces, then things
are not going to go well. And I think that
there were lots of times where they just weren't able
to move the ball and ways that we've seen them
during that wind streak. So that's one. And then I
also think, just like defense, if you can if you
can get the Aces to look a step behind defensively
(17:23):
and start to look a little bit discombobulated defensively. Then
you've got the pre But what were we saying pre
bb like before blowout team, that's B.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
B and a B before blown and after a blowout.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Exactly like that's that's a huge part of it is defense,
and so tonight I thought their defense was lacking and
there were lots of times where the ball movement just
wasn't there. And it's unfortunate because when the ball's moving,
the ace st are so fun to watch, but that
really wasn't the case today.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
It's interesting you mentioned that because defense and sort of
just energy have been the two I think points of
contention for Becky Hammond all season and Game one of
this had that familiar feeling and aces team that didn't
have what Hammond called pep, which sometimes is just another
word for Asia Wilson having an off night and sometimes
is the whole team just not showing up, not being
(18:12):
consistently ready to put in the effort on defense, missing
layups like the fundamentals.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Can you get a feeling after.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Covering this team all season long why they sometimes have
those lapses and why it happened so often, particularly in
the first half of the season.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Oh, that's a good question. I mean, I think the
game that you're talking about, I think that was you know,
they opened the series game one without some pep, and
I think that one was a little bit more obvious
to me because Ajia Wilson is going through all these emotions,
the team's going through these emotions because she's being presented
with an unprecedented fourth MVP award. You know, that's a
big deal, even though she'd already received it. It's like
she's reliving the emotions again. And so I like anticipated that.
(18:51):
I had a feeling that they were just going to
be off, and they were, And so I think that
sometimes that's maybe that's like oversimplifying it, but a lot
of times it seems like when there are things going
on off the court, they might leach on to the
court for the ases. Now I'm not saying that that
was the case for the uh entirety of the rough
(19:12):
first half of the season. I think, you know, in
terms of like their energy and effort, a lot of
that was just like they're just trying to find some
cohesive flow and they were doing a lot of like
you know, storming, norming and performing. I guess this is
what they had going on, like it was, it was
just a process for them at first. But I do think,
you know, just for Game one, that one was pretty
(19:34):
obvious to me, like, Okay, they're gonna be off, and
they were.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
I'm not familiar with storming, norming, and performing. Will you
tell me what each of those mean in basketball context?
Speaker 4 (19:44):
Okay, well that's really even stocking storming. This is a
term that I learned, like in high school. I think
it's it's used in like corporate settings a lot like
it's it's when teams are you know, it's the phases
of becoming a cohesive team. You got a storm norm
until you can perform for the aces. I think the
storming was a lot of like figuring out people's roles
(20:06):
and also learning the defense. And I don't think and
to be honest, I still I've done a lot of
thought about the defense because they were they were incorporating
new things with new assistance, so that that's it was stormy.
It was a storm. Things were rough, nobody knew what
was going on, but then people found their roles and
then they found their norms, you know, like Joel Lloyd
(20:28):
really fit into her role, yes, and like they kind
of they got accustomed to a new defense. They also
threw out some of the things that they were trying
to do defensively that weren't working and all. Then they
incorporated these like you know, player led defensive scouts. Like
that's storming and normy in a corporate sense. Yeah, and
(20:49):
so now they're performing.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
You're really teaching me here, Yeah, you're really teaching me here.
I just looked it up. Apparently there's a man by
the name of Bruce Tuckman who in nineteen sixty five
proposed a model of group development called forming, storming, norming, performing,
and he said all those faces are necessary and inevitable
for a team to grow, face up to challenges, tackle problems,
find solutions, and deliver results.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah, it's known as the Tuckman ladder.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
So look at you, just grabbing some random ass Bruce
Tuckman development model from nineteen sixty five and definitely applying
it to the team.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
You cover something I've never heard of.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
I have learned enough already for this interview to be
a success. Let's talk the most important thing, which is
Steph White's red leather jacket is allegedly undefeated. Someone at
the ACE has got to tie that thing up at
the dry cleaner's. Huh.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Someone's got to get that out of her clutches.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Yes, I just learned that today. I saw to me
about the red leather jacket. I had no idea. Apparently
this stretches back. This is stretched back to the Connecticut sun.
Even like this is a real thing. All I know
is the Aces have something similar. It's not I don't
think it's as well documented. But when the whole team
wears the like Hammond blazer hoodie, I call it the
(22:01):
Blizziti combo. When there's like this red one and black
one with the whole staff will wear, they have a
pretty good record when they unite. In that sense. That
means that beck and Hammond also has to wear the
black blazer with the red hoodie. Somebody's gonna have to
actually do. Like the stats, I don't know, but I'm
sure that number is good because it doesn't happen very often,
and I normally notice it in wins when they're like
(22:23):
united with the Blazziti.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Would help if they were united both with the Blizzuriti
but also in how many timeouts they have, because I'm
pretty sure that's also one of her assistant coaches and
staff members responsibility to make sure she knows exactly how
many they have. I want to ask you, Cheryl Reeve
after Game three of that series accuse the League of
quote unquote malpractice for assigning the certain officials.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
She had a lot of criticism of how the game
was called.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
That same group of officials worked today's game four between
the Aces and fever. You got a grade for them.
What did you think of the call today? Did it
feel right?
Speaker 2 (22:56):
How things went?
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Did it feel right? You know what? To be honest,
I was watching the game and thinking, I don't know
about some of these calls. I'm a little bit confused
by some of them. And I think, I mean, there
was one where, like I think it was like Leah
Boston felt to the floor and then somehow like Melissa
Smith got called for a foul and I was like,
wait a minute, this doesn't even make sense. But you know,
(23:18):
obviously Becky has been quite vocal about the officiating. He
knew what she was walking into. Because Cheryl, like Becky,
has been so vocal about the officiating that Cheryl Reeve
referenced Becky in her comments that helped her get suspended.
So clearly like Becky knows what she's going into. It
shouldn't really come has to come down to officiating. But
(23:38):
the differential tonight was significant. I think the Aces had
like eleven free throw attempts as a team and the
Fever had something closer to like thirty something. You have
to check my math on. I don't know the numbers.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Aces had eleven and the Fever had thirty four. Ooh, yeah,
it was a big difference. I personally watching it with
the eye test, there were a couple that I was like,
that didn't seem right, But for the most part, it
just felt like there was a much more aggressive game,
both in terms of pace and approach from the Fever.
So sometimes those discrepancies are decided by style of play.
(24:12):
There were a couple that were a little head scratching,
but certainly nothing to get ejected and suspended over tonight.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Right, No, definitely nothing like that.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
What do you need to see from the Aces on
Tuesday night to get a win in Game five in
advance to the WNBA Finals.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
Well, they're gonna need what they got from Asia, like
a bare minimum. I know that. You know, you talk
a lot about how like she can have an off
night and this type of thing, but like she cannot
afford to have any kind of off night and this
this really important game five, So I think that's going
to be a huge part of it. But also they're
(24:51):
supporting cast, Like I think the Guard play tonight. There
were some moments where I was just like, I don't
really understand what's going on, So that's gonna have to
be super And then like we talked about defense, that's
going to be huge and just controlling the pace. I
don't think that you can get caught into the type
of game that the Fever are gonna want to play,
because they're going to want to get you in transition
(25:13):
and do all these different things, and the Aces can't
really keep up with that unfortunately, so they got to
just stay composed and keep the game controlled.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
I want to zoom out just a little, because you're
about as close to this Aces team as someone can get.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
You been covering them all season long.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
What did you notice about them before and after that
big blowout BB and AB that marked that season pivot point?
Could you tell by going to practice or games or
interviewing players or talking to Becky was there a shift
that was noticeable because that was an incredible.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Season saving change for them.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Whatever it was that happened after they got blown them out,
they came back and they were different.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
Yeah, that's a really good question. I don't I don't
know if I've thought about it in that sense, because
to me, I'm mean, I hite to go back to
the story ignorming before me. But I really think it
was like a gradual process. I think I've even seen
people try to point to these like player led defensive
scouts the days that started doing and being like, well,
that was the turning point, but it was not the
turning point because they actually started that before they took
(26:14):
their historic fifty three point loss to the Minnesota Links.
They were like they were doing well with that for
like two games before the loss of the Links, they
were still doing the defensive scout, you know. Dir Like
with that loss happened, but they continued, you know. So
I don't think it's as simple as a lot of
people try to make it seem. I do think Asian
Wilson's leadership is something that has really just stood out
(26:37):
to me throughout and I think definitely kind of ratshet
it up. Like when things started turning around. So I think, absolutely,
she's this is her team and we all know that,
and she's i think consistentlycently been a vocal leader. But
I think especially this year, like the links that she's
gone to, Like I've had players tell me that she
(26:57):
sends them like individualized text message is and it's like
pulling them aside and doing all these different things. And
so that is something that I think stands out to me,
is like Asia Wilson really stepping into her role as
a leader. And but again I don't think that that
was like before and after losing streak. It just kind
of it was something she had to kind of grow
into just s gradual.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yeah, what about Becky Hammond? Did you see her shift
style at all, whether it's approach to the game plan,
whether it's approached to how she handled her players and
talked to them to get the most out of this
particular group.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
I think, you know, last year was my first season
covering this team, and last year was a different group,
and I watched her yell a lot, and I watched
her be really tough with that group, and so I
think that that's kind of what I came to expect
from her. And I've spoken about this before, but this
year I saw I've seen a lot less of that.
Just it's been a completely different Becky. Like, obviously, yes,
(27:52):
she is gonna yell because she's Becky Hammond. That's like
part of what she's going to do. But so much
of what I've seen from her seemed a lot more
like gentle, you know, she's really trying to like understand
what everybody needs and be you know, really receptive. And
I do think that Becky Hammond is someone who, I mean, respectfully,
(28:13):
she seems like she could be a little bit stubborn.
I think that she has like a way that she
wants things to be, and I think that this year
she's been forced out of that a little bit, even
with Joel Lloyd not being like the you know, star
starter that maybe we all imagined that she would be
when she was traded to the Aces. So I think
that that's part of it. But like, I don't know,
(28:36):
I think she just seems a lot more flexible, and
she's like pouring into these players a lot more as people.
Not to say that she didn't do that in the past,
but like, you know, she's giving gifts to people, she
gave plants to people at the start of the season,
with like individualized messages and all these different things that
I never heard of her doing last year. She's going
to one on one dinners with Ricky's like Leah and
(28:58):
I to get them out of shooting slumps. And these
are all things that are new to me and seem
like they were just kind of because of what this
group required.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Sign of a good leader to know that everybody is
going to be motivated differently and to say I am
stubborn about what I think works, but if it's not work,
and then I got to figure out if these people
need something else. Last quick question for you. I know
certain WNBA reporters across the last couple of seasons in particular,
have faced the wrath of some very rabid fans. How
has the season been for you covering this team that
(29:30):
has had such highs and lows. I don't know if
you were critical of them in any of your stories
midway through when that things looked really dire, and just
has it been an enjoyable, interesting season for you because
of the highs and lows or more like pulling your
hair out.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
Oh my goodness, that's a great question. I don't know
if this is like directly what you're asking, but I
will say last year I struggled more with like the
feedback and things like that that I received than I
have this year, because I think last year not only
was I new to the job, but it was also
just like an unprecedented time we were dealing with, like
the influx of fans and kind of newcomers. I think
(30:08):
to the league that company, the arrival of all All
Star rookie Kayln Clark, you know, that was that was
a really huge thing that impacted my experience, and I
think I dealt with a lot of negativity covering the
ass I think Asia Wilson was positioned almost as like
an anti I don't even it wasn't even just Asia,
(30:30):
it was like the whole team. But there was just
a lot of negativity that I dealt with last year.
And then I think that this year it's been different,
you know, like you said, it's more like this team
is struggling more than it has in the past. And
so sure, I definitely wrote critical stories, but that's like
part of the job, and I never really I never
really had issues with that. I think, even like having
(30:52):
one on one interviews with Nikki Fargus, who's the president
and almost like acting GM of the the team, and
how I mean to ask questions like hey, like why
did you guys do this? Why did you treat a
first round pick for Melissa Smith? And kind of having
to be a little bit harder like that didn't bother
me at all. Having to be like the only one
asking questions and after losses and things like that, that's
(31:13):
like normal struggles. So I appreciate these struggles versus the
ones that I had last year.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Agreed, I just like keeping tabs on how things are going.
I'm very fascinated by this inflection point in the league,
and very empathetic to the folks, especially newbies in the
business that are like what I'm like.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Sit down, youngster, let me talk to you about the Internet.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
I should have probably reached out to you during the
time like I had like last year of people I
had people calling me Bracis were like, you know, if
if I didn't, it's just crazy wild things about like
just the way that like Kaitlyn Park was covered and
I wasn't even really directly covering her. It only be
like the games that I had to cover where the
Fever were playing with the Aces and it was just
(31:54):
really crazy. It was a crazy time.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Onward and upboard hopefully.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
And speaking of that, we've now reached the final stage
added actually by Tuckman in nineteen seventy seven, adjourning, which
is when you break the group up after they have performed.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
So we have to adjourn this interview anyway. I will
never break up with you.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
We hope the Aces aim to avoid that on Tuesday
night and continue performing by making it to the finals.
Thanks so much for the time, Calli appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Thanks so much to Calli for joining us. We got
to take another break when we come back. Superstar side quests.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Welcome Backslics.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
You know that we love when you listen, but we
want you to get in the game every day too.
So here's our good game play of the day. It's
an easy one. Follow Calli if you aren't already. She's
pretty awesome and her work is excellent. We'll link to
our social media accounts in our show notes. We always
love to hear from you, so hit us up on
email Good game at wondermedianetwork dot com or leave us
a joy smail at eight seven two two o four
(33:02):
fifty seventy and don't forget to subscribe, rate and review slaces.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
I tell you every time, it's so easy.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Watch Hooper's proven that they're more than just basketball players,
rating ten out of ten. Impressive side Quests review, no
shutting up and dribbling here. Women's hoopstars are showing up
off the court in some incredible ways, including the Las
Vegas Aces, Megan Gustafson releasing a children's book called Pancakes
(33:30):
Passport about her adventures with her Corgie Pancake, and the
Chicago Sky's Angel Reese making her feature film debut alongside
Idris Elba in Catherine Bigelow's A House of Dynamite, which
you can watch now on Netflix. College bawlers are getting
in on the action two with the Queen of side
Quests herself, Flage Johnson, adding cover Girl to her titles,
(33:51):
gracing the September cover of Teen Vogue. We're glad she
found some time to glam up in between running wind sprints.
If you haven't seen Flage playful Beef with LSU coach
Kim Moulke, we'll link to the instaclips in the show
notes Now it's your turn slices, rate and review. Thanks
for listening, See you tomorrow. Good Game CALLI Good Game
(34:11):
England Red Roses few incidental contact. It's no one's fault, really,
but damn it, it sucks when it results in injuries.
Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You
can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
(34:32):
wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network,
our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive
producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder.
Our editors are Emily Rutter, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and
Gianna Palmer. Our associate producer is Lucy Jones. Production assistance
(34:52):
from Avery Loftus and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain
Host
Sarah Spain
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