August 19, 2025 • 44 mins
Paige Jones, member of the U.S. National Ski Jumping Team, joins Sarah to share a concerning experience she had during inspections before a recent competition. Jones explains why a scandal involving altered ski jumping suits has resulted in more intense examinations, details just what the heck a crotch machine is, and asks her sport’s governing body to better prioritize athlete comfort and safety. Plus, the Women’s Decathlon World Championships crown the “World’s Greatest Athlete,” the US Open bucks tradition, and a Super Slice steals my birthday spotlight–in the best kind of way.
-
Follow Paige on social media here
-
Learn more and support the Women’s Decathlon World Championships here
-
The WNBA schedule is here
-
Leave us a voicemail at 872-204-5070 or send us a note at goodgame@wondermedianetwork.com
-
Follow Sarah on social! Bluesky: @sarahspain.com Instagram: @Spain2323
-
Follow producer Misha Jones! Bluesky: @mishthejrnalist.bsky.social Instagram: @mishthejrnalist
-
Follow producer Alex Azzi! Bluesky: @byalexazzi.bsky.social
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're tightening
our bindings, racing toward the takeoff table and getting into
the V position. It's time to fly. It's Tuesday, August nineteenth,
and on today's show, we're talking to us ski jumper
Page Jones. Page reached out to us about a week
ago following a disconcerting and invasive experience that she had
ahead of the start of the ski jumping season. We
(00:22):
talked to her about the incident, plus the extreme measures
taken to prevent cheating in her sport, and how to
make necessary invasions of privacy as professional, comfortable, and safe
as possible. This was a fascinating conversation. She is an
excellent representative not just for ski jumping, but for women
in all sports, and we're super grateful that she trusted
(00:43):
us with her story. Plus counting to ten when you're
interim and permanent at the same time and someone called Marcus,
we got another one. It's all coming up right after
this welcome back slice this here's what you need to
know today. In track and field news, the second ever
(01:05):
Women's to Kathlon World Championships took place this past weekend,
with Nicky Boone winning the title of World's greatest athlete.
This whole event is a big fing deal, slices. Shout
out to the folks over together for drawing our attention
to it. The Women's to Cathlon World Championships are organized
by the nonprofit ICO for All because women are still
banned from participating in the decathlon at the international level.
(01:28):
Ever seen a women's to kathlon at the Olympics? Nope,
because non male athletes compete in the seven event heptathlon. Well,
what's the difference? You came to the right place. Here's
the breakdown. A decathlon is a track and field competition
where athletes participate in ten events. On the track, the
one hundred meter, four hundred meter and fifteen hundred meter races,
plus the one hundred meter hurdles on the field, the
(01:50):
long jump, high jump, shot put, pole vault, javelin, and
discus throw. After all ten events, a winner is crowned
based on an overall score. You get points for each
of those events and they all add up to that
final score. The seven event have tathlon, which is what
I did in college, shares five events with the decathlon.
One hundred meter hurdles long jump, high jump, shot put in, javelin,
(02:11):
and adds the two hundred and eight hundred meters. Even
though I loved the seven event format because I would
have struggled with the bowl vault, it does seem like
it's high time that women get the chance to compete
in the full ten events, and the Women's to Cathlon
World Championship gives folks the chance to do just that.
And this year there was an extra fun twist because
sports bars across the country held watch parties for folks
(02:33):
who wanted to see the action happen live on the
All Women's Sport network Pretty Badass. We'll put a link
in the show notes if you want to learn more
or donate to support the Women's to Cathlon World Championships.
In hoops. There's a packed slate of five WNBA games tonight,
starting things off another finals rematch, The Minnesota Links visit
the New York Liberty at seven pm Eastern on NBATV
(02:55):
and League Pass. Minnesota three to zero against the Liberty
this season. New York to recover after dropping two straight
games and falling to third in the standings. That should
be a good one. Then tipping off at seven thirty Eastern,
it's the Washington Mystics hosting the Connecticut Sun, available on
League Pass. Connecticut is last in the league, and even
though DC's currently in tenth place, the Mystics are just
(03:16):
a half game back from eighth, the lowest seed that
makes the WNBA playoffs. That spot currently held by the
Seattle Storm, So while the Sun might not make the postseason,
they can certainly try to play spoiler for the Sticks.
At eight pm Eastern, we've got the aforementioned Storm taken
on the Chicago Sky here in the Shy. You can
catch that one on League Pass, and much like Connecticut,
(03:37):
the twelfth ranked Sky can throw a wrench in Seattle's
playoff plans with a win. Tonight's last couple games tip
off at ten pm Eastern. That's the Atlanta Dream at
the Las Vegas Aces and the Golden State Valkyries at
home against the Phoenix Mercury, both contests on League Pass
and Dream Aces on NBATV as well. All four of
those teams are jockeying for position in the league's top
(03:57):
seven spots. We'll link to the fold WNBA schedule in
our show notes to the NWSL got to wrap up
a few storylines from this weekend's matches. On Saturday, the
Kansas City Current and Orlando Pride, ranked first and second
in the NWSL standings heading into the match, played to
a scoreless draw that marked the first time the Current
didn't score a goal in a home game since CPKC
(04:20):
Stadium opened last year. That's nineteen straight matches. But the
main headline from the battle of the league's top teams
was the hot weather. The game, which was originally slated
to kick off at three pm local time, was postponed
by three and a half hours due to extreme heat,
but the delay happened in increments, with officials regularly taking
the wet bulb globe temperature until it fell below the
(04:41):
league mandated max of ninety three point two degrees fahrenheit. Now,
if you never heard of a wet bulb globe, join
the club. Apparently, the wet bulb globe temperature is a
measure of heat stress indirect sunlight that combines air temperature, humidity,
wind speed, sun angle, and cloud cover. Now, the forecast
called for heat, so the time of the game could
(05:02):
have been moved in advance, but an NWSL spokesperson told
the athletic quote. The league aims to play matches as
scheduled whenever safely possible. While forecast guide planning, we primarily
rely on real time on site weather data to make
informed decisions following our inclement weather policies and protocols based
on those inputs, The league decided to delay today's match
(05:22):
end quote, and certainly the league was also hoping to
be able to keep the match in its original time
slot in a prime national television slot. The weather didn't cooperate, though,
and the delays were required. Orlando coach sab Behind said
postgame he was disappointed in how the delay was handled. Quote.
It was too hot to play, and we would have
liked that decision to have been made earlier on before
(05:43):
warm up, so they can probably prep a little bit better.
It was a lot of waiting around end quote. As
we mentioned in yesterday's show, with the draw for the Pride.
In that game, San Diego WAVEFC jumped them in the
standings and now sits second behind the current The game
also saw Orlando star Barbara band To go down with
an injury in the tenth minute and leave the game,
(06:04):
but details on the extent of the injury haven't been
released as of this recording. To Tennis. The US Open
Mixed doubles event begins today right on the heels of
the Cincinnati Open. Jasmin Paulini and Higas Fontek went to
battle for the SINCI title just after the time of
this recording, and Carlos Alcarez defeated Yanick Center for the
championship on the men's side yesterday. That quick turnaround might
(06:25):
affect the mixed doubles draw, but for now it is stacked.
Big name duos includes Fontech and Caspar Rude Emerodicanu and
Carlos Alvarez, Naomi Osaka and Gael Monfie, Madison, Keys and
Francis Tiafo, Jessica Pagoula and Jack Draper, Venus Williams and
Riley Opelka, and men's singles world number one Sinner, who
will play with Katerina Siniakova, one of the best doubles
(06:48):
players in the world. The format is going to be
different from any other Grand Slam event, with sets that
go first to four instead of six, no ad scoring,
and a match tiebreak at a set apiece. ESPN will
also be interviewing players between the sets. Now. Some doubles
players have criticized the USTA for devaluing a Grand Slam
trophy by using a new format and holding the tournament
(07:11):
in the same week as singles qualifying, rather than alongside
the main tournament, but USTA executives argue that not enough
people watch mixed doubles, so introducing a new format that
draws top singles players, viewers, and publicity is worth upending tradition.
The first two rounds of the Mixed Doubles start at
eleven am Eastern today on ESPN two and ESPN Plus
(07:32):
and shift at one pm Eastern to ESPN News an
ESPN Plus. By the way, I'll be at the US
Open on Thursday for a live show at FanFest with
Pam Schreiver, and you can attend for free. US Open
FanFest started yesterday and runs through Saturday with the USTA
Billyjing King National Tennis Center, grounds free and open to
the public, live shows like mine, featured events, and family
(07:55):
friendly activities all centered around the US Open qualifying tournament.
Hope to see some slices there and the rest of you.
We'll get to hear that conversation with Pam on Friday
show slices. We got to give a quick shout out
to the interim president of WNBA expansion team, the Portland Fire,
Claire Hamil. Her position at the team may be temporary,
(08:16):
but her commitment is forever. Last week, Hamill got the
team's rose logo tattooed on her arm, and not an
itty bitty one, y'all, a big old flaming rose on
her left forearm. As the kids say, that's lit. Are
the kids still saying that? Anyway? She was joined by
at least one other Fire employee who chose to get
(08:37):
a tat of the team's pe logo. Now. Hamill is
a former forty three year Nike executive who came out
of retirement two months ago to take on the president
role after the departure of the Fire's first hire, Inky Son.
No doubt she's dedicated to making Portland second go round
in the w one that lasts kind of like a
permanent tattoo. We got to take a quick break. When
(08:58):
we come back, get ready to enter a world obsessed
with crotch machines and inseam lengths. It's us ski jumper
Page Jones joining us now. She likes to fly downhill
at sixty miles per hour and then fly the length
of a football field, you know, for a job. She's
(09:19):
on the US national ski jumping team, one of the
top US women in the sport. Has been named a
six national teams and three World Championship teams. In twenty
twenty one, she became the first woman to jump a
large hill at a World Championships event. She's studying biomedical
engineering with a pre dental track at University of North
Dakota and she got engaged on the side of a
mountain in Slovakia a few months ago. It's page Jones
high page.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Hi, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
I got engaged on Safari and I thought that was
pretty rad. But the hiking up a side of a
mountain and then popping the question is even better.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
It was pretty good. What was actually the most exciting
was the hike back down. It was eventful.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
I was gonna say, I feel like when someone who's
a ski jumper says exciting, what you mean is d
dangerous and life threatening?
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Perfect, I'm glad that you know what It's like the Bachelor,
they always make him jump off of building. It probably
only brought you too closer They say that people in
dangerous situations together start to feel more attached. So if
you and your fiance weren't already you know, halfway to
the altar, it probably helped.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
No truly, and he does lose, so he's also kind
of an adrenaline junkie. So together we kind of are
fine with dangerous things.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yeah, perfect match. We're going to get into this ongoing
controversy surrounding ski jumping suits and an experience that you
had at a recent competition. But first, I just want
to go back to your early years in the sport.
I'm guessing that most of our listeners have never even
seen a ski jump in real life, not to mention
attempted to jump off one. So how did you first
get started in this wild sport?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
So? I grew up in Park City, Utah, which is
the location of a lot of the events for the
two thousand and two Winter Olympic Games. So I grew
up like ride underneath the shadow of the ut Olympic Park.
And in Park City they have this p called Get
Out and Play where they have like elementary school age
kids go up to the we call the EUOP but
(11:07):
the Utah and Big Park to try the sports. So
I tried like ski racing, freestyle skiing, Nordic skiing, and
my sister was better at every single one than me
other than ski jumping. So I really like ski jumping
at that point in time because it's the only one
I was better at my sister then. But ski jumping
is very interesting when you're younger because you get to
(11:29):
progress so fast. So they start you out on a
five meter hill and then it progresses to like ten
meters twenty meter, and I think that like idea of
like getting to jump bigger and bigger hills is really
what drew me in and kept me in the sport.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah. I have friends who live in Park City and
their son is just a crazy skier, like doing things
that I would never try to do even at my peak,
and he's a kid, So I get that that place
sort of raises youngsters who are willing to try the
tough stuff. I actually love seeing the behind this videos
of people training for dangerous sports. Are there any quirky
(12:04):
or unique ways to practice or learn how to ski
jump without the danger when you're first starting out or
when you're you know, advancing to a bigger hill.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
I honestly, Like, I don't think I'll ever work out
in a public gym while I'm still a ski jumper. Like,
a lot of this stuff we do is just really funky.
I'd say probably the most interesting thing that we do.
We call them catches, but we get in our like
in run or tuck position on a roller board, and
then we jump and our coach catches us and lifts
us above his head. So it's kind of like the
dirty dancing lift. But we do that to practice the
(12:34):
like take off and into the flight.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Interesting, why wouldn't there just be some sort of indoor
slide or something where you go into the little pit
full of foam.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
We have we have where you can like do that
and then land on a pad. But what it misses
is this kind of like continuation into the flight because
when you land and you hit a pad, you stop
and ins ski jumping. While you're in the air, you're
kind of constantly trying to rotate to stay on top
of your skis, So having the coach catch you kind
of imitates that better.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
That's wild, Okay, all right, So Jennifer Gray and Patrick
Swayze might have been a great duo for the ski jumps.
They just they never never got the chance. Tell me
about the shark socks that you wear.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
That's just kind of like a fun thing that started.
I'm really into sharks, and I think that competing should
be fun. So one of my ways to kind of
keep competing fun is by wearing shark socks do on
my competition, So I have quite the collection. If anybody
doesn't know what to give me for like a birthday
or whatever, shark socks is usually a pretty good get.
But yeah, just a way to keep it fun.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
It does seem fun but also very scary. What kind
of mental prep do you do for competitions and how
much do you have to self regulate your nervous system
and other things before you're about to compete.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
I'd say quite a lot. Ski jumping, like what really
matters takes like less than a second, which is the takeoff,
so like you have to be really locked in for
such a short period of time. For me, I'm a chatter,
so like I like to talk to everybody and anybody
up until the point where I'm actually going to go
take my jump, which kind of helps me stay not stressed.
(14:15):
This past season, I actually started jumping with earplugs in
so that I can't hear the announcers, because for me,
it's better if I don't know how far everybody is going,
because if I know how far people are going, then
I'm like, I have to go like ninety meters or
I'm not going to make the second round. And then
I'm also on anti anxiety medication, which has helped a
lot with the mental side of things. But yeah, I
(14:38):
would say a lot of people compare ski jumping to golf,
where yes, there is like a physical aspect to it,
but I'd say it's almost more mental than physical.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Yeah, it certainly feels like it. Just putting yourself out
there and trying something requires a lot of bravery and
confidence and belief in yourself that you're going to follow
through with every little detail that's required to be in
the right position and do it safely.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Right, hmm, definitely.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
All right, let's talk about go out a little background
for our listeners on the whole controversy that's going on
in ski jumping, because the last couple of years, and
I guess in general in the sport, there's a real
benefit to getting your suit just right, and this past
March there were five male Norwegian ski jumpers and three
officials that were suspended by the International Ski and Snowboard
(15:19):
Federation accused of cheating by altering the crotches of the
team's ski suits. So most of our listeners probably familiar
with doping, using performance enhancing drugs to get better, but
the concept of suit doping probably pretty new to them.
So can you explain what role the suit actually plays
in ski jumping and then the advantage athletes might try
to get from cheating by adjusting the crotch or somewhere
(15:41):
else on the suit.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, So if you've ever seen like skydiving where people
like jump out of planes with these like squirrel suits on,
that's essentially what our ski jumping suit is for us.
And obviously the closer you can make it to a
squirrel suit, the better it's going to fly. So they're
all very highly regulated their standardized preach athlete like m
and height measurements to kind of prevent having like a
(16:02):
really low crotch to catch more air. And then the
other main rule is that the suit can't be bigger
than four centimeters of your body anywhere, So like if
I were to get equipment controlled, they could measure like
my thigh and then measure the thigh of my suit,
and if my suit is larger than four centimeters of
my thigh, then I would like be disqualified. Ski Jumping
(16:25):
is a very equipment heavy sport. I would say, like,
if you have a good jump and you don't have
good equipment, you're going to probably jump shorter than somebody
with a bad jump and good equipment. So it really
is make or break, especially at the higher level. So
this is more of an issue at the World Cup,
specifically within the top fifteen jumpers.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
It's so interesting because I would think that it would
be you'd want to be the most aerodynamic going down
so you could get as fast as possible. But then
it makes sense that once you're actually up quote unquote flying,
you want to find ways to have the air booy used. So,
like you mentioned, the squirrel suits sort of have wings almost,
but on a ski jumping suit, in theory, it should
just be the dimensions of your body. So specifically, the
(17:09):
crotch is a place that they have to closely regulate.
I was looking at the Guidelines for Measuring and Control
Procedure document that producer Alex sent me, which is very detailed,
and there's a whole section called crotch control. What does
that entail? And is this something that athletes are just
like used to in ski jumping that there's it reminds
me of the old print song. I won't say the name,
but yeah, like tell me about crotch control.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah, there's a lot of crotch talk. We'll call it
the en seam if we don't want to go with
the word. Crotch is the only measurement that they're checking
on every single person prior to their jump. So before jumping,
we get something we call the crotch machine, and it
has this like little lever that comes up and they'll
put it at like what your n seam measurement is,
(17:52):
and the you step into the machine and then they
flick the little lever up and if it clicks, that
means that your en seam is above that and you're
good to get. But if it doesn't click, your in
seem is too low and you're immediately disqualified and you
don't even get to take a jump. So en seem
is the thing that they regulate the highest.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
That's wild the crotch machine. Oh my gosh, the things
that I don't know about in sports that are just
like normal for y'all, okay, And I saw a picture
in the guidelines. It literally is the equivalent of like,
I don't know, like a popsicle stick that like flips
up out of the table. And in theory, if it
(18:29):
doesn't fully get into place and click, then there's something
in the way, which would mean that extra fabric or
that that thing. So what would people be doing that
would prevent the crotch machine from clicking, Like stuffing something
in their suit or putting air or somehow creating more
space that would make the crotch lower and therefore more
(18:49):
able to pick up air.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
So each country is making their own suits. It's not
like we order them from a company in like size small, medium, large,
So when somebody is in seem as too low, it's
because they made it that way. It could be like
their leg length isn't long enough. They just added extra
fabric there when they were making it, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Which brings us back to the story from in March
when those jumpers were suspended for the crotch on their
suits because essentially they made like an extra seam in
there and that was what they got caught for so
because the suit plays such a big role. Fisked, the
organization that oversees all of ski jumping, has introduced a
lot of new rules in recent years about the size
(19:34):
of suits, including taking measurements of athlete bodies. And you're
used to that as a ski jumper. So can you
explain what this process has looked like during your time competing,
beginning with your first year competing, and like whether it's
changed over the years. How they make sure that they're
taking measurements and regulating suits.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah, so the measurements that they're taking from each athlete
that are standardized stay with you the whole season. Is
your height, your in seem your arm length and your
foot length all the rest of the measurements that kind
of just take on the spot, but those are like standardized.
Those are your measurements as a junior athlete. So I
think it's under twenty those measurements are supposed to be
(20:13):
retaken annually, and then after twenty it's you take them
and they're supposed to be good because theoretically you're not
growing anymore. I've been a senior athlete for I think
three years, and I've had to retake them every year
because they keep changing the procedure. So when I first
started competing internationally, it was kind of a modified version
of the crotch machine, so it would measure our height
(20:36):
and our crotch at the same time, and we just
like stood against a wall. And then it evolved from that.
The first change was to being measured on a table
instead of standing up, so it's kind of the same thing,
except for there was like a laser that was measuring
the height and then the crotch. And then the year
after that is when they introduced the three D body scan.
(20:57):
So the three D body scan, you go in, you're
in your underwear and like bra for women, and you
stand on this little platform and it like spins you
around and takes a body scan, and then on the
computer they put dots at where the bottom of your
crotches and where the top of your head is to
get the heightened enseeam measurement. And the three D body
(21:19):
scan is kind of where it's evolved from each year.
So the first year that was just like the normal procedure.
We go in, stand on the circle, We're good, and
then I think some teams got caught sewing stuff into
their underwear. So the next year after that it turned
into a FISK provided you underwear. You had to go
change into that underwear and then get the three D
body scan done, And then evidently people were finding a
(21:42):
way around that, so the year after that, you had
to change into the FIST provided underwear in the presence
of a doctor, which brings us to this year. Kind
of the same deal. You have to change into the
FIST provided underwear in the presence of a doctor, but
this year there was a kind of second part inspection
to it, so we had to drop our panties and
(22:03):
stand there while the adoctor inspected us for like three
to five seconds with our lake spread, and then once
he said like okay, you're good, then we put our
underwear back on and got our three D body scan done.
So they've escalated it quite a bit each year.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Okay, the three D body scan is making me think
of like motion capture for movies, where you've got the
dots all over your body and it kind of can
track like each part of you. And it makes sense
that they would elevate to that because I noticed in
the guidelines that there were very strict rules about standing
up perfectly straight, or taking a deep breath before other
things you think about slouching, or ways that you might
(22:38):
try to alter the numbers so that your suit could
actually be bigger than you are. But it sounds like
the escalation in that has taken a bit of a
turn in that you were pretty comfortable with what they
were doing before, but this most recent time that you
went in ahead of this competition in France, you didn't
(23:00):
think the experience was in alignment with what would make
athletes most comfortable, right, So can you tell us what
happened there and why it was different?
Speaker 2 (23:08):
What was different this year is always in the past,
since they've introduced like changing into the underwear, we've had
a female doctor provided for us, but this year when
we showed up, there was a male doctor there. He
said that he worked as a reproductive endocrinologist, So like say,
subsection of OBGI in which I think in physicize made
it okay, But yeah, we had to strip down pretty
(23:32):
naked in front of this male doctor and they asked
us like all right, like do you guys feel okay
about this? And we're all like no, not really, and
they're like, okay, well, you guys can refuse, that is
your choice, but then you won't be able to compete.
So it was like the illusion of choice. If we
wanted to be there and compete that weekend, then we'd
had to, you know, strip down in front of this
male doctor.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
I'm so sorry that happened to you. When they asked
are you okay with this? At what point in the
proceedings was it? Were you all together when you were asked?
Who was asking you? That?
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Our whole team was there? We had this is when
we had arrived at the hill for our testing appointment,
so it was probably like five minutes before we were
getting tested.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
And as far as you knew, you were going to
have the same tests as before, including the naked search,
but you expected it to be a woman. Yeah, okay,
So it wasn't the actual practice as much as it
was that you were not given the choice to have
it administered by a female doctor. And who asked if
you were okay with it? Was it a representative from
(24:34):
FISS or Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
The FIS equipment control personnel for the female circuit.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
So you know, those of us not in sports like
this might be shocked at the very idea that just
being able to compete requires this level of examination, that
there's a lot of ways that your privacy will be impacted,
and that you're sort of used to it by now.
We've had other athletes come on the show and talk
about having to pee in front of anti doping control
officers or do a variety of other bodily things in
(25:04):
front of people, and I imagine they're all sort of uncomfortable.
But up unto this point in this particular test, did
you always feel like you were being considered and that
what was being asked of you was necessary to the
sport and handled in the best way possible to achieve
the desired result of fairness.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, like, it's in my best interest that the playing
field is as even as possible. The United States, despite
being a large country, is actually a very small country
in ski jumping. We have a lot less funding than
some of these bigger countries like Norway or Germany or Austria,
And generally what we see is these bigger countries have
more access to kind of work go around these rules,
(25:44):
So the stricter they are, the more it actually benefits me.
And I would say that like, over the years of
an athlete, I have gone really comfortable kind of being
in very bare minimal clothing around people, whether that's just
like in the changing room or for equipment control purposes.
But it made it different about this year. Yes, was
the male doctor, but it was also this like stand there,
(26:05):
spread your legs and inspection because like even when you're
there for like DCO doping control, they're like inspecting your genitals.
They're just there to witness basically.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
So this was the first time that there was actually
somebody up close for three to five seconds inspecting your genitals.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yeah. Before it was just they were there while we
were changing. There was no like stop, pause, wait, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Got it was anyone else in the room with you.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yeah, So the setup was everyone was in the same room.
I went behind a barrier where the doctor could see me,
and then my coach was able to watch the doctor
watch me, but without seeing me.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Okay, okay. This is bringing up so many thoughts about
Larry Nasser, and in the US there was a really
big conversation about trust from female athletes with doctors, trust
in their federations and the people that are put in
place to help protect them. And in the case of
Larry Nasser, there were parents in the room sometimes as
(27:11):
he was violating girls who didn't know either couldn't see
exactly what he was doing or were assured that it
was necessary. Did it make you feel better to have
a coach watching the doctor watch you in any way?
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Not really? And also, like with the Larry Naster thing,
I think that like the US women's team felt more
affected than the other teams at the competition. I think
specifically because we kind of grew up more in a
sport environment where we did have this distrust of doctors,
like just because somebody's a doctor doesn't make them safe,
(27:45):
whereas in other countries, one I think it's more usual
to have a male gynecologist, and two I don't think
they have this like safe sport cloud above them at
all times, right.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
I mean, having learned and heard about the extent of
what Larry Nasa was able to do over decades will
certainly make any woman an athlete in particular, much more
wary going into these situations. So you had your coach
watching the doctor, and your coach, the US team coach
is one of the few or maybe the only female
(28:16):
head coach on the women's circuit.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Right, Yeah, she's our assistant coach but yeah, she is
the only female coach on the women's circuit or the
men's circuit for that matter.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Wow. Okay, So I mean that's a little more comfortable
for you probably that there is a woman watching the proceedings.
But if you had asked, would you be allowed to
have any other chaperone or person in the room for
your safety?
Speaker 2 (28:38):
I would assume. So the issue with like being an Americans,
I'm traveling all the way to Europe for these competitions,
so I wouldn't have known to bring a person because
I didn't know it was a male doctor, and you know,
paying to bring a chaperone or whatever was kind of unrealistic.
So I feel very lucky that we did have a
female staff member there, but you know, other countries might
(28:59):
not be as lucky. We have, like the Japanese team
traveling all the way from Asia for these things, and
I don't think they have any female staff members.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
So when you arrived and they said here's what the
proceedings are going to be and here's the doctor doing it,
did one of you ask is there a woman we
can do this with instead? And that's when they gave
you that sort of illusion of choice. Yeah, Wow, I'm
so sorry that you had to deal with that. What
were the conversations with your coach and your teammates after that?
Speaker 2 (29:26):
We all just kind of talked about how uncomfortable it was,
and it was me who brought up I was like,
we need to like go to the media about this,
Like something about this feels so like icky and wrong
that we need to like tell people. It was like
I have to go like run and tell a trusted
adult like yeah, but yeah, we just kind of like
felt that it wasn't quite right. And actually even some
of our male teammates like sent a message in their
(29:48):
World Cup group chat to say like, hey, like, did
you guys know that they're not providing a female for
the women? Like I don't feel like this is quite right.
So it's not it's not just us that's kind of
feeling that way.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
I'm so glad they did, because unfortun sometimes it does
require men to speak up in these instances. Did you
feel like you mentioned that in Europe? Maybe there it's
not as strange. Did you feel like this was more
a matter of an absence of thought, like they didn't
even consider, Oh, do you think these women would be
(30:18):
more comfortable with a female doctor or do you think
it was something done with intention, like they don't deserve
to have that request. You know, what's the thinking behind
them not even for a second in advance considering that
it would make more sense to have a female doctor
do this.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
I feel like they must have considered it at some point,
because up until now we've had a female doctor. I
think for FIS it was more of a convenience thing,
like it's more convenient for them to only have to
have one doctor there, and I think that's why they
invited like a male obguin trying to cover all their bases.
But I do think it is more kind of a
convenience thing.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
What was the age of the athletes that we're having
to undergo this body testing?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I think our youngest athlete right now is eighteen, and
our oldest on our team is twenty three. But the
procedure is the same for underage athletes, So, like any
you're eligible to compete in international competitions at age fifteen,
and the procedure would be the same for any athlete
wanting to compete at that level.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
So any athletes under eighteen from another country that might
have been there to compete had to undergo this as well. Yeah, yeah,
that seems really problematic. So you reached out to producer
Alex because you saw that she'd written about and covered
ski jumping before. Did you reach out to other media
or other folks to try to see if they were
interested in talking about this?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Not really, I just figured i'd try one and see
how it went, and tried to find a woman who've
written about ski jumping.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
So yeah, yeah, probably not as common as you wish
and hope for.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Right, Well, it's kind of difficult, but looked doubt.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Yeah. Well, I'm so glad Alex brought us the story
because I do think there are elements of sports like
during this interview, I've already learned so much. I've never
heard of the crotch machine or or any of those things,
and I fully get how necessary they are, and to
your point, you actually want them. You want these protocols
in place to make sure that what you're competing in
is as fair as it can be. But obviously there
(32:11):
are ways to ensure that all the athletes feel centered
and taken care of in these moments. So what's the
next step? What else? First of all, do you want
people to know while you have this opportunity on our show, I.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Just would like to say that I don't feel like
fairness should come at the cost of my dignity. There
has got to be some way that we can ensure
the sport is fair without like having all the athletes
strip searched. I think it might require a little bit
more funding or personnel on that front, but I don't
think taking the easy way out at the cost of
(32:43):
like the female athletes is the way to go.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
And what next steps might you want either the US
Key Jumping Federation or other folks that help represent you
and your fellow athletes, what would you like them to do.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
I think just start discussions with this specifically on kind
of the women's front of things, making sure that we're
considered in equipment decisions. A lot of the times they
make decisions for the men and it's just applied to
the women, which is unfair, particularly in suit decisions, because
their bodies are different, and we also fluctuate a lot
more than the men do, like week to week. So
(33:17):
I'd say that, like, I don't even know if there's
a woman on the council for FIS, that's like providing
opinions about this. But if there isn't, I think there
should be, And if they're currently is, maybe they need
to speak up a little bit more because I definitely
feel like the women are the afterbot here.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Are there any other outcomes or extensions of this that
you're worried about.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
I'm kind of worried about what situations the sets minor
athletes up for. Like, there are bad people and predators
out there, and I don't think like normalizing being naked
in a sports context is safe for minors. Like a
lot of us will practice for measurements before we actually
get them done, just because they do influence a lot
(34:00):
for your season. And I don't want there to be
a situation where a predatory coach says to a minor
athlete like, hey, like we need to practice measurements. You
strip down naked to get these measurements, Like that's just
how it goes.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
The practicing is so that you know your coach might
give you tips on like how to stand, to make
sure that you're not giving them measurements that would be disadvantageous.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Yeah, Like I like the difference between like standing all
the way straight up and like ducking your chin a
little bit can make like a centimeter difference. So just
practicing to make sure you know exactly what you're going
to do when you're walking in there.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
What's next for you are the Olympics on the horizon.
I don't know anything about the qualifying for that. Is
that what these events that you're currently competing in are
leading up to.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Yeah, so our Olympic qualifying period actually started last July.
We have a really really long qualifying period. All points
that are scored in Grand Prix, which are summer competitions
and World Cups, count towards qualifying quota spots for your country.
So when we qualify a quota spot, that spot isn't
necessarily yours, and then starting in December, we'll start competing
(35:08):
for those spots. So like right now, I have I
think like one hundred and something points, which is definitely
high enough to keep a quota spot for the US.
And that's good, And if I can continue buying results
from last season, I'll have a really good shot at
securing one of those quota spots for myself.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Amazing congratulations on that. And then you're also in school
hoping to graduate next.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Year right the year after next year.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Yeah, okay, okay, we've backed it up a little on
your on your LinkedIn. We were aiming for twenty twenty six,
but the ski jumping has taken priority a little.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Yeah, I had to transfer. I was originally at the
University of Utah, but transferred to the University of North
Dakota because of their online program. But that transfer did
set me back a year.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Got it And is the eventual goal to be a dentist?
Speaker 2 (35:56):
It is. Yeah, I actually just got my DAT scores
back today. I'm really excited.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
How'd you do?
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Really really good?
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Crushed it? Amazing, amazing. Well, you just seem like an
incredibly impressive woman between the biomedical engineering and the pre
dental and the ski jumping and your travels and your
photography on your install, like you seem like you're crushing life.
And you're still so young. So we can't wait to
see what you do in the qualifying And we're so
(36:23):
grateful you were willing to talk about this. I think
that is the biggest thing, is just athletes getting out
and saying like, this is what we need, this is
what we deserve, this is what we have dealt with,
and we should improve it. And I think that you're
going to be a great voice in helping change things
going forward. So thanks so much for talking to us
about it.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yeah, thanks so much for having me. It's you know,
sometimes hard to get a spotlight on small, niche sports
like ski jumping, so I really I really appreciate you
taking the time to kind of like actually do the
research and invite me on here.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Yeah. Well, big thanks to Alex for bringing the story
to the show, and also to you for allowing us
to name a show inevitably the Crotch Machine percent what
we're naming the show. Thanks to Paige not just for
taking the time to talk to us, but for reaching
out to us to share her story. After speaking with her,
we contacted FISS, the organization that oversees international ski jumping
(37:15):
competition and creates and enforces the protocols that Paige and
her fellow athletes are subjected to. We wanted to see
if they had any comment on the experience page described
and to ask a few clarifying questions. As part of
their lengthy, very helpful response, FISS said, quote, FISS is
fully committed to a fair sport and to protecting honest
competitors from being harmed by any form of fraud or manipulation.
(37:38):
We are also committed to doing so while showing the
utmost respect for the athletes safety and well being. This
is non negotiable. End quote. We asked FIS about the
reason that a naked legs spread examination is required in
the first place, and they offered some insight on that
noting quote. Over the course of the last couple of years,
there have been a few occasions in which athletes attempted
(37:58):
to defraud the three D measurement process, for example by
adding prosthetic like parts to that area of the body.
This was the reason why this year's protocol was further
developed end quote. As for the evolving procedural changes and
athlete rites, FISS said, the three D body scan protocol
quote gives the athlete the possibility to refuse to undergo
the procedure in case they feel uncomfortable, and postpone the
(38:20):
measurement for a later date with no penalties or consequences.
End quote. It's worth noting, though, according to Page the
chance to refuse or postpone came on site five minutes
in advance of the procedure, and while FI set an
athlete who refuses wouldn't be penalized or have any consequences.
They also wouldn't be allowed to compete, and with prize
money and Olympic qualifying points on the line, athletes would
(38:42):
still be impacted by opting out. We also wanted clarification
from FISS on the rules that are in place for
minor athletes, given that page said all athletes went through
the same procedure, even those under the age of eighteen.
Fifth wrote back to say, the protocol recommends quote the
presence of a parent or egal caretaker at the moment
of the exam, or, in case this is not possible,
(39:03):
of a team member preferably of the same gender as
the athlete, authorized by the parent or legal caretaker, who
would also be signatories at the consent form end quote.
As for the doctor that was provided at the event
in France, that page attended, the statement from FISS says,
quote for that competition, FIS brought in a renowned medical doctor,
in fact, with extensive experience working with women's health to
(39:25):
perform body inspections for the twenty twenty five twenty twenty
six season. FIST continued with that said, we absolutely respect
the athlete's feelings and understand that the presence of a
male doctor may be deemed uncomfortable by female athletes. FIS
acknowledges this kind of constructive feedback and hereby commits going
forward to offering female athletes the possibility of being examined
(39:45):
by a female doctor end quote. We reached out to
FIS to clarify how intentional the use of the word
possibility was, i e. Was it interchangeable with option or opportunity.
Did they mean a female doctor will be guaranteed at
all future events or that it's just a possibility that
a female doctor will be provided. FISS replied that quote,
(40:05):
whenever there are three D body scans scheduled for female athletes,
they will be allowed to request for it to be
conducted by a female doctor. End quote. We'll keep you
all updated if we learn any more about these evolving procedures,
and we're always open to hearing from other athletes as well,
ski jumpers and non ski jumpers alike. We know that
there are a lot of ways that competing in elite
sport can require sort of necessary invasions of privacy, but
(40:28):
that doesn't mean that those experiences shouldn't be as comfortable,
safe and professional as possible. So if you have your
own story to share, please reach out. Our email is
good game at wondermedianetwork dot com. In the meantime, we
really appreciate Page for sharing her story and Fiss for
getting back to us and saying the organization is willing
to make changes based on athletes safety concerns and feedback.
(40:49):
One of the reasons this story feels so important to
us is something Alex mentioned when we were talking about
the show today, and that the situation isn't always toxic
or abusive. Sometimes it's just about improving practice so that
athletes have the best experience possible. And that's why it's
so important to talk about things like this. Even if
everyone had the best intentions, that doesn't mean we can't
still make improvements. All right, we have to take another break.
(41:10):
When we return, it's my party. You can come out
if you want to come out, if you want to
come out, if you want to stick around. Welcome back slices.
We love that you're listening, but we want you to
get in the game every day too, So here's our
good game play of the day. Follow Page on social media.
We'll link to her socials in the show notes. And
(41:32):
if you did something nice for somebody in honor of
my birthday yesterday, don't forget to send me a message.
I want to hear about it. Hit us up on
email Good Game at Wondermedia network dot com, or leave
us a voicemail at eight seven two two four fifty seventy,
and don't forget to subscribe, Rate and review, y'all. It's
easy watch using my birthday party to come out rating
one out of one Super Slices review. Y'all might remember
(41:55):
me mentioning super Slice Emma aka at the Stitch God
on Instagram, the world's best cross stitch artist who works
with tons of teams and athletes and brands and celebs
and made my super dope corduroy good game hat. Well,
Emma came to my birthday party this weekend and she
used the occasion of my birth to publicly tell the
world she's gay. Marcus. Now. Lots of folks in her life,
(42:18):
of course already know this, but she needed to send
a crystal clear message to the men in her dms,
and she did that using a custom fake cake from
Chicago based artist Anna Lasberry aka at Crappy cake art
on Insta and TikTok. Now anacrafts these intentionally imperfect messages
via crappy cakes to honor life's messy moments through love
and encouragement and humor. And she even leaves some of
(42:41):
her fake cake creations around Chicago for passers by to
discover and delight in and take home with them. And
for this particular occasion, the fake cake read She's gay,
Marcus and on the back Sarah, Happy birthday, Thanks for
hosting my coming out party. Lol XO Emma, So there
you have it. Men in her DMS she's gay. Hey,
it's right there on a fake cake. I'm sorry to
(43:03):
those man's congrats Emma. Oh and Alex and Mesh. Gotta
say thank you for the surprise birthday wishes you dropped
into yesterday's episode. It was both sweet and snarky, which
is basically my whole personality. You get me, you really
get me, and I will have you know. At my
birthday party, I drank a shot of milort hit a
(43:23):
slow Moo dance move, ripped off several shirts a la
Brandy Chastain because we had a different costume for each
stop after all, and I basically live stream the party
with all the photos and videos I took. I even
did the splits well dressed as a Christmas pickle, So
the only thing missing is the Sam Carr backflip. Guess
I have something to train for ahead of next year's birthday.
(43:43):
Now it's your turn, y'all, rate and review. Thanks for listening,
See you tomorrow. Good Game Page, Good game, Emma. You
heat delays. I'm worried We're gonna have more and more
of those in the years to come. Good Game with
Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership
with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
(44:06):
your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are
Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive producers are Christina Everett,
Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutder. Our editors are
Emily Rutterer, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and Gianna Palmer. Our
associate producer is Lucy Jones. Production assistance from Avery Loftus
(44:26):
and I'm your Host Sarah Spain
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're tightening
our bindings, racing toward the takeoff table and getting into
the V position. It's time to fly. It's Tuesday, August nineteenth,
and on today's show, we're talking to us ski jumper
Page Jones. Page reached out to us about a week
ago following a disconcerting and invasive experience that she had
ahead of the start of the ski jumping season. We
(00:22):
talked to her about the incident, plus the extreme measures
taken to prevent cheating in her sport, and how to
make necessary invasions of privacy as professional, comfortable, and safe
as possible. This was a fascinating conversation. She is an
excellent representative not just for ski jumping, but for women
in all sports, and we're super grateful that she trusted
(00:43):
us with her story. Plus counting to ten when you're
interim and permanent at the same time and someone called Marcus,
we got another one. It's all coming up right after
this welcome back slice this here's what you need to
know today. In track and field news, the second ever
(01:05):
Women's to Kathlon World Championships took place this past weekend,
with Nicky Boone winning the title of World's greatest athlete.
This whole event is a big fing deal, slices. Shout
out to the folks over together for drawing our attention
to it. The Women's to Cathlon World Championships are organized
by the nonprofit ICO for All because women are still
banned from participating in the decathlon at the international level.
(01:28):
Ever seen a women's to kathlon at the Olympics? Nope,
because non male athletes compete in the seven event heptathlon. Well,
what's the difference? You came to the right place. Here's
the breakdown. A decathlon is a track and field competition
where athletes participate in ten events. On the track, the
one hundred meter, four hundred meter and fifteen hundred meter races,
plus the one hundred meter hurdles on the field, the
(01:50):
long jump, high jump, shot put, pole vault, javelin, and
discus throw. After all ten events, a winner is crowned
based on an overall score. You get points for each
of those events and they all add up to that
final score. The seven event have tathlon, which is what
I did in college, shares five events with the decathlon.
One hundred meter hurdles long jump, high jump, shot put in, javelin,
(02:11):
and adds the two hundred and eight hundred meters. Even
though I loved the seven event format because I would
have struggled with the bowl vault, it does seem like
it's high time that women get the chance to compete
in the full ten events, and the Women's to Cathlon
World Championship gives folks the chance to do just that.
And this year there was an extra fun twist because
sports bars across the country held watch parties for folks
(02:33):
who wanted to see the action happen live on the
All Women's Sport network Pretty Badass. We'll put a link
in the show notes if you want to learn more
or donate to support the Women's to Cathlon World Championships.
In hoops. There's a packed slate of five WNBA games tonight,
starting things off another finals rematch, The Minnesota Links visit
the New York Liberty at seven pm Eastern on NBATV
(02:55):
and League Pass. Minnesota three to zero against the Liberty
this season. New York to recover after dropping two straight
games and falling to third in the standings. That should
be a good one. Then tipping off at seven thirty Eastern,
it's the Washington Mystics hosting the Connecticut Sun, available on
League Pass. Connecticut is last in the league, and even
though DC's currently in tenth place, the Mystics are just
(03:16):
a half game back from eighth, the lowest seed that
makes the WNBA playoffs. That spot currently held by the
Seattle Storm, So while the Sun might not make the postseason,
they can certainly try to play spoiler for the Sticks.
At eight pm Eastern, we've got the aforementioned Storm taken
on the Chicago Sky here in the Shy. You can
catch that one on League Pass, and much like Connecticut,
(03:37):
the twelfth ranked Sky can throw a wrench in Seattle's
playoff plans with a win. Tonight's last couple games tip
off at ten pm Eastern. That's the Atlanta Dream at
the Las Vegas Aces and the Golden State Valkyries at
home against the Phoenix Mercury, both contests on League Pass
and Dream Aces on NBATV as well. All four of
those teams are jockeying for position in the league's top
(03:57):
seven spots. We'll link to the fold WNBA schedule in
our show notes to the NWSL got to wrap up
a few storylines from this weekend's matches. On Saturday, the
Kansas City Current and Orlando Pride, ranked first and second
in the NWSL standings heading into the match, played to
a scoreless draw that marked the first time the Current
didn't score a goal in a home game since CPKC
(04:20):
Stadium opened last year. That's nineteen straight matches. But the
main headline from the battle of the league's top teams
was the hot weather. The game, which was originally slated
to kick off at three pm local time, was postponed
by three and a half hours due to extreme heat,
but the delay happened in increments, with officials regularly taking
the wet bulb globe temperature until it fell below the
(04:41):
league mandated max of ninety three point two degrees fahrenheit. Now,
if you never heard of a wet bulb globe, join
the club. Apparently, the wet bulb globe temperature is a
measure of heat stress indirect sunlight that combines air temperature, humidity,
wind speed, sun angle, and cloud cover. Now, the forecast
called for heat, so the time of the game could
(05:02):
have been moved in advance, but an NWSL spokesperson told
the athletic quote. The league aims to play matches as
scheduled whenever safely possible. While forecast guide planning, we primarily
rely on real time on site weather data to make
informed decisions following our inclement weather policies and protocols based
on those inputs, The league decided to delay today's match
(05:22):
end quote, and certainly the league was also hoping to
be able to keep the match in its original time
slot in a prime national television slot. The weather didn't cooperate, though,
and the delays were required. Orlando coach sab Behind said
postgame he was disappointed in how the delay was handled. Quote.
It was too hot to play, and we would have
liked that decision to have been made earlier on before
(05:43):
warm up, so they can probably prep a little bit better.
It was a lot of waiting around end quote. As
we mentioned in yesterday's show, with the draw for the Pride.
In that game, San Diego WAVEFC jumped them in the
standings and now sits second behind the current The game
also saw Orlando star Barbara band To go down with
an injury in the tenth minute and leave the game,
(06:04):
but details on the extent of the injury haven't been
released as of this recording. To Tennis. The US Open
Mixed doubles event begins today right on the heels of
the Cincinnati Open. Jasmin Paulini and Higas Fontek went to
battle for the SINCI title just after the time of
this recording, and Carlos Alcarez defeated Yanick Center for the
championship on the men's side yesterday. That quick turnaround might
(06:25):
affect the mixed doubles draw, but for now it is stacked.
Big name duos includes Fontech and Caspar Rude Emerodicanu and
Carlos Alvarez, Naomi Osaka and Gael Monfie, Madison, Keys and
Francis Tiafo, Jessica Pagoula and Jack Draper, Venus Williams and
Riley Opelka, and men's singles world number one Sinner, who
will play with Katerina Siniakova, one of the best doubles
(06:48):
players in the world. The format is going to be
different from any other Grand Slam event, with sets that
go first to four instead of six, no ad scoring,
and a match tiebreak at a set apiece. ESPN will
also be interviewing players between the sets. Now. Some doubles
players have criticized the USTA for devaluing a Grand Slam
trophy by using a new format and holding the tournament
(07:11):
in the same week as singles qualifying, rather than alongside
the main tournament, but USTA executives argue that not enough
people watch mixed doubles, so introducing a new format that
draws top singles players, viewers, and publicity is worth upending tradition.
The first two rounds of the Mixed Doubles start at
eleven am Eastern today on ESPN two and ESPN Plus
(07:32):
and shift at one pm Eastern to ESPN News an
ESPN Plus. By the way, I'll be at the US
Open on Thursday for a live show at FanFest with
Pam Schreiver, and you can attend for free. US Open
FanFest started yesterday and runs through Saturday with the USTA
Billyjing King National Tennis Center, grounds free and open to
the public, live shows like mine, featured events, and family
(07:55):
friendly activities all centered around the US Open qualifying tournament.
Hope to see some slices there and the rest of you.
We'll get to hear that conversation with Pam on Friday
show slices. We got to give a quick shout out
to the interim president of WNBA expansion team, the Portland Fire,
Claire Hamil. Her position at the team may be temporary,
(08:16):
but her commitment is forever. Last week, Hamill got the
team's rose logo tattooed on her arm, and not an
itty bitty one, y'all, a big old flaming rose on
her left forearm. As the kids say, that's lit. Are
the kids still saying that? Anyway? She was joined by
at least one other Fire employee who chose to get
(08:37):
a tat of the team's pe logo. Now. Hamill is
a former forty three year Nike executive who came out
of retirement two months ago to take on the president
role after the departure of the Fire's first hire, Inky Son.
No doubt she's dedicated to making Portland second go round
in the w one that lasts kind of like a
permanent tattoo. We got to take a quick break. When
(08:58):
we come back, get ready to enter a world obsessed
with crotch machines and inseam lengths. It's us ski jumper
Page Jones joining us now. She likes to fly downhill
at sixty miles per hour and then fly the length
of a football field, you know, for a job. She's
(09:19):
on the US national ski jumping team, one of the
top US women in the sport. Has been named a
six national teams and three World Championship teams. In twenty
twenty one, she became the first woman to jump a
large hill at a World Championships event. She's studying biomedical
engineering with a pre dental track at University of North
Dakota and she got engaged on the side of a
mountain in Slovakia a few months ago. It's page Jones
high page.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Hi, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
I got engaged on Safari and I thought that was
pretty rad. But the hiking up a side of a
mountain and then popping the question is even better.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
It was pretty good. What was actually the most exciting
was the hike back down. It was eventful.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
I was gonna say, I feel like when someone who's
a ski jumper says exciting, what you mean is d
dangerous and life threatening?
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Perfect, I'm glad that you know what It's like the Bachelor,
they always make him jump off of building. It probably
only brought you too closer They say that people in
dangerous situations together start to feel more attached. So if
you and your fiance weren't already you know, halfway to
the altar, it probably helped.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
No truly, and he does lose, so he's also kind
of an adrenaline junkie. So together we kind of are
fine with dangerous things.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yeah, perfect match. We're going to get into this ongoing
controversy surrounding ski jumping suits and an experience that you
had at a recent competition. But first, I just want
to go back to your early years in the sport.
I'm guessing that most of our listeners have never even
seen a ski jump in real life, not to mention
attempted to jump off one. So how did you first
get started in this wild sport?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
So? I grew up in Park City, Utah, which is
the location of a lot of the events for the
two thousand and two Winter Olympic Games. So I grew
up like ride underneath the shadow of the ut Olympic Park.
And in Park City they have this p called Get
Out and Play where they have like elementary school age
kids go up to the we call the EUOP but
(11:07):
the Utah and Big Park to try the sports. So
I tried like ski racing, freestyle skiing, Nordic skiing, and
my sister was better at every single one than me
other than ski jumping. So I really like ski jumping
at that point in time because it's the only one
I was better at my sister then. But ski jumping
is very interesting when you're younger because you get to
(11:29):
progress so fast. So they start you out on a
five meter hill and then it progresses to like ten
meters twenty meter, and I think that like idea of
like getting to jump bigger and bigger hills is really
what drew me in and kept me in the sport.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah. I have friends who live in Park City and
their son is just a crazy skier, like doing things
that I would never try to do even at my peak,
and he's a kid, So I get that that place
sort of raises youngsters who are willing to try the
tough stuff. I actually love seeing the behind this videos
of people training for dangerous sports. Are there any quirky
(12:04):
or unique ways to practice or learn how to ski
jump without the danger when you're first starting out or
when you're you know, advancing to a bigger hill.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
I honestly, Like, I don't think I'll ever work out
in a public gym while I'm still a ski jumper. Like,
a lot of this stuff we do is just really funky.
I'd say probably the most interesting thing that we do.
We call them catches, but we get in our like
in run or tuck position on a roller board, and
then we jump and our coach catches us and lifts
us above his head. So it's kind of like the
dirty dancing lift. But we do that to practice the
(12:34):
like take off and into the flight.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Interesting, why wouldn't there just be some sort of indoor
slide or something where you go into the little pit
full of foam.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
We have we have where you can like do that
and then land on a pad. But what it misses
is this kind of like continuation into the flight because
when you land and you hit a pad, you stop
and ins ski jumping. While you're in the air, you're
kind of constantly trying to rotate to stay on top
of your skis, So having the coach catch you kind
of imitates that better.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
That's wild, Okay, all right, So Jennifer Gray and Patrick
Swayze might have been a great duo for the ski jumps.
They just they never never got the chance. Tell me
about the shark socks that you wear.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
That's just kind of like a fun thing that started.
I'm really into sharks, and I think that competing should
be fun. So one of my ways to kind of
keep competing fun is by wearing shark socks do on
my competition, So I have quite the collection. If anybody
doesn't know what to give me for like a birthday
or whatever, shark socks is usually a pretty good get.
But yeah, just a way to keep it fun.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
It does seem fun but also very scary. What kind
of mental prep do you do for competitions and how
much do you have to self regulate your nervous system
and other things before you're about to compete.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
I'd say quite a lot. Ski jumping, like what really
matters takes like less than a second, which is the takeoff,
so like you have to be really locked in for
such a short period of time. For me, I'm a chatter,
so like I like to talk to everybody and anybody
up until the point where I'm actually going to go
take my jump, which kind of helps me stay not stressed.
(14:15):
This past season, I actually started jumping with earplugs in
so that I can't hear the announcers, because for me,
it's better if I don't know how far everybody is going,
because if I know how far people are going, then
I'm like, I have to go like ninety meters or
I'm not going to make the second round. And then
I'm also on anti anxiety medication, which has helped a
lot with the mental side of things. But yeah, I
(14:38):
would say a lot of people compare ski jumping to golf,
where yes, there is like a physical aspect to it,
but I'd say it's almost more mental than physical.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Yeah, it certainly feels like it. Just putting yourself out
there and trying something requires a lot of bravery and
confidence and belief in yourself that you're going to follow
through with every little detail that's required to be in
the right position and do it safely.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Right, hmm, definitely.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
All right, let's talk about go out a little background
for our listeners on the whole controversy that's going on
in ski jumping, because the last couple of years, and
I guess in general in the sport, there's a real
benefit to getting your suit just right, and this past
March there were five male Norwegian ski jumpers and three
officials that were suspended by the International Ski and Snowboard
(15:19):
Federation accused of cheating by altering the crotches of the
team's ski suits. So most of our listeners probably familiar
with doping, using performance enhancing drugs to get better, but
the concept of suit doping probably pretty new to them.
So can you explain what role the suit actually plays
in ski jumping and then the advantage athletes might try
to get from cheating by adjusting the crotch or somewhere
(15:41):
else on the suit.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, So if you've ever seen like skydiving where people
like jump out of planes with these like squirrel suits on,
that's essentially what our ski jumping suit is for us.
And obviously the closer you can make it to a
squirrel suit, the better it's going to fly. So they're
all very highly regulated their standardized preach athlete like m
and height measurements to kind of prevent having like a
(16:02):
really low crotch to catch more air. And then the
other main rule is that the suit can't be bigger
than four centimeters of your body anywhere, So like if
I were to get equipment controlled, they could measure like
my thigh and then measure the thigh of my suit,
and if my suit is larger than four centimeters of
my thigh, then I would like be disqualified. Ski Jumping
(16:25):
is a very equipment heavy sport. I would say, like,
if you have a good jump and you don't have
good equipment, you're going to probably jump shorter than somebody
with a bad jump and good equipment. So it really
is make or break, especially at the higher level. So
this is more of an issue at the World Cup,
specifically within the top fifteen jumpers.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
It's so interesting because I would think that it would
be you'd want to be the most aerodynamic going down
so you could get as fast as possible. But then
it makes sense that once you're actually up quote unquote flying,
you want to find ways to have the air booy used. So,
like you mentioned, the squirrel suits sort of have wings almost,
but on a ski jumping suit, in theory, it should
just be the dimensions of your body. So specifically, the
(17:09):
crotch is a place that they have to closely regulate.
I was looking at the Guidelines for Measuring and Control
Procedure document that producer Alex sent me, which is very detailed,
and there's a whole section called crotch control. What does
that entail? And is this something that athletes are just
like used to in ski jumping that there's it reminds
me of the old print song. I won't say the name,
but yeah, like tell me about crotch control.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah, there's a lot of crotch talk. We'll call it
the en seam if we don't want to go with
the word. Crotch is the only measurement that they're checking
on every single person prior to their jump. So before jumping,
we get something we call the crotch machine, and it
has this like little lever that comes up and they'll
put it at like what your n seam measurement is,
(17:52):
and the you step into the machine and then they
flick the little lever up and if it clicks, that
means that your en seam is above that and you're
good to get. But if it doesn't click, your in
seem is too low and you're immediately disqualified and you
don't even get to take a jump. So en seem
is the thing that they regulate the highest.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
That's wild the crotch machine. Oh my gosh, the things
that I don't know about in sports that are just
like normal for y'all, okay, And I saw a picture
in the guidelines. It literally is the equivalent of like,
I don't know, like a popsicle stick that like flips
up out of the table. And in theory, if it
(18:29):
doesn't fully get into place and click, then there's something
in the way, which would mean that extra fabric or
that that thing. So what would people be doing that
would prevent the crotch machine from clicking, Like stuffing something
in their suit or putting air or somehow creating more
space that would make the crotch lower and therefore more
(18:49):
able to pick up air.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
So each country is making their own suits. It's not
like we order them from a company in like size small, medium, large,
So when somebody is in seem as too low, it's
because they made it that way. It could be like
their leg length isn't long enough. They just added extra
fabric there when they were making it, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Which brings us back to the story from in March
when those jumpers were suspended for the crotch on their
suits because essentially they made like an extra seam in
there and that was what they got caught for so
because the suit plays such a big role. Fisked, the
organization that oversees all of ski jumping, has introduced a
lot of new rules in recent years about the size
(19:34):
of suits, including taking measurements of athlete bodies. And you're
used to that as a ski jumper. So can you
explain what this process has looked like during your time competing,
beginning with your first year competing, and like whether it's
changed over the years. How they make sure that they're
taking measurements and regulating suits.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah, so the measurements that they're taking from each athlete
that are standardized stay with you the whole season. Is
your height, your in seem your arm length and your
foot length all the rest of the measurements that kind
of just take on the spot, but those are like standardized.
Those are your measurements as a junior athlete. So I
think it's under twenty those measurements are supposed to be
(20:13):
retaken annually, and then after twenty it's you take them
and they're supposed to be good because theoretically you're not
growing anymore. I've been a senior athlete for I think
three years, and I've had to retake them every year
because they keep changing the procedure. So when I first
started competing internationally, it was kind of a modified version
of the crotch machine, so it would measure our height
(20:36):
and our crotch at the same time, and we just
like stood against a wall. And then it evolved from that.
The first change was to being measured on a table
instead of standing up, so it's kind of the same thing,
except for there was like a laser that was measuring
the height and then the crotch. And then the year
after that is when they introduced the three D body scan.
(20:57):
So the three D body scan, you go in, you're
in your underwear and like bra for women, and you
stand on this little platform and it like spins you
around and takes a body scan, and then on the
computer they put dots at where the bottom of your
crotches and where the top of your head is to
get the heightened enseeam measurement. And the three D body
(21:19):
scan is kind of where it's evolved from each year.
So the first year that was just like the normal procedure.
We go in, stand on the circle, We're good, and
then I think some teams got caught sewing stuff into
their underwear. So the next year after that it turned
into a FISK provided you underwear. You had to go
change into that underwear and then get the three D
body scan done, And then evidently people were finding a
(21:42):
way around that, so the year after that, you had
to change into the FIST provided underwear in the presence
of a doctor, which brings us to this year. Kind
of the same deal. You have to change into the
FIST provided underwear in the presence of a doctor, but
this year there was a kind of second part inspection
to it, so we had to drop our panties and
(22:03):
stand there while the adoctor inspected us for like three
to five seconds with our lake spread, and then once
he said like okay, you're good, then we put our
underwear back on and got our three D body scan done.
So they've escalated it quite a bit each year.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Okay, the three D body scan is making me think
of like motion capture for movies, where you've got the
dots all over your body and it kind of can
track like each part of you. And it makes sense
that they would elevate to that because I noticed in
the guidelines that there were very strict rules about standing
up perfectly straight, or taking a deep breath before other
things you think about slouching, or ways that you might
(22:38):
try to alter the numbers so that your suit could
actually be bigger than you are. But it sounds like
the escalation in that has taken a bit of a
turn in that you were pretty comfortable with what they
were doing before, but this most recent time that you
went in ahead of this competition in France, you didn't
(23:00):
think the experience was in alignment with what would make
athletes most comfortable, right, So can you tell us what
happened there and why it was different?
Speaker 2 (23:08):
What was different this year is always in the past,
since they've introduced like changing into the underwear, we've had
a female doctor provided for us, but this year when
we showed up, there was a male doctor there. He
said that he worked as a reproductive endocrinologist, So like say,
subsection of OBGI in which I think in physicize made
it okay, But yeah, we had to strip down pretty
(23:32):
naked in front of this male doctor and they asked
us like all right, like do you guys feel okay
about this? And we're all like no, not really, and
they're like, okay, well, you guys can refuse, that is
your choice, but then you won't be able to compete.
So it was like the illusion of choice. If we
wanted to be there and compete that weekend, then we'd
had to, you know, strip down in front of this
male doctor.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
I'm so sorry that happened to you. When they asked
are you okay with this? At what point in the
proceedings was it? Were you all together when you were asked?
Who was asking you? That?
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Our whole team was there? We had this is when
we had arrived at the hill for our testing appointment,
so it was probably like five minutes before we were
getting tested.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
And as far as you knew, you were going to
have the same tests as before, including the naked search,
but you expected it to be a woman. Yeah, okay,
So it wasn't the actual practice as much as it
was that you were not given the choice to have
it administered by a female doctor. And who asked if
you were okay with it? Was it a representative from
(24:34):
FISS or Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
The FIS equipment control personnel for the female circuit.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
So you know, those of us not in sports like
this might be shocked at the very idea that just
being able to compete requires this level of examination, that
there's a lot of ways that your privacy will be impacted,
and that you're sort of used to it by now.
We've had other athletes come on the show and talk
about having to pee in front of anti doping control
officers or do a variety of other bodily things in
(25:04):
front of people, and I imagine they're all sort of uncomfortable.
But up unto this point in this particular test, did
you always feel like you were being considered and that
what was being asked of you was necessary to the
sport and handled in the best way possible to achieve
the desired result of fairness.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, like, it's in my best interest that the playing
field is as even as possible. The United States, despite
being a large country, is actually a very small country
in ski jumping. We have a lot less funding than
some of these bigger countries like Norway or Germany or Austria,
And generally what we see is these bigger countries have
more access to kind of work go around these rules,
(25:44):
So the stricter they are, the more it actually benefits me.
And I would say that like, over the years of
an athlete, I have gone really comfortable kind of being
in very bare minimal clothing around people, whether that's just
like in the changing room or for equipment control purposes.
But it made it different about this year. Yes, was
the male doctor, but it was also this like stand there,
(26:05):
spread your legs and inspection because like even when you're
there for like DCO doping control, they're like inspecting your genitals.
They're just there to witness basically.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
So this was the first time that there was actually
somebody up close for three to five seconds inspecting your genitals.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yeah. Before it was just they were there while we
were changing. There was no like stop, pause, wait, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Got it was anyone else in the room with you.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yeah, So the setup was everyone was in the same room.
I went behind a barrier where the doctor could see me,
and then my coach was able to watch the doctor
watch me, but without seeing me.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Okay, okay. This is bringing up so many thoughts about
Larry Nasser, and in the US there was a really
big conversation about trust from female athletes with doctors, trust
in their federations and the people that are put in
place to help protect them. And in the case of
Larry Nasser, there were parents in the room sometimes as
(27:11):
he was violating girls who didn't know either couldn't see
exactly what he was doing or were assured that it
was necessary. Did it make you feel better to have
a coach watching the doctor watch you in any way?
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Not really? And also, like with the Larry Naster thing,
I think that like the US women's team felt more
affected than the other teams at the competition. I think
specifically because we kind of grew up more in a
sport environment where we did have this distrust of doctors,
like just because somebody's a doctor doesn't make them safe,
(27:45):
whereas in other countries, one I think it's more usual
to have a male gynecologist, and two I don't think
they have this like safe sport cloud above them at
all times, right.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
I mean, having learned and heard about the extent of
what Larry Nasa was able to do over decades will
certainly make any woman an athlete in particular, much more
wary going into these situations. So you had your coach
watching the doctor, and your coach, the US team coach
is one of the few or maybe the only female
(28:16):
head coach on the women's circuit.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Right, Yeah, she's our assistant coach but yeah, she is
the only female coach on the women's circuit or the
men's circuit for that matter.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Wow. Okay, So I mean that's a little more comfortable
for you probably that there is a woman watching the proceedings.
But if you had asked, would you be allowed to
have any other chaperone or person in the room for
your safety?
Speaker 2 (28:38):
I would assume. So the issue with like being an Americans,
I'm traveling all the way to Europe for these competitions,
so I wouldn't have known to bring a person because
I didn't know it was a male doctor, and you know,
paying to bring a chaperone or whatever was kind of unrealistic.
So I feel very lucky that we did have a
female staff member there, but you know, other countries might
(28:59):
not be as lucky. We have, like the Japanese team
traveling all the way from Asia for these things, and
I don't think they have any female staff members.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
So when you arrived and they said here's what the
proceedings are going to be and here's the doctor doing it,
did one of you ask is there a woman we
can do this with instead? And that's when they gave
you that sort of illusion of choice. Yeah, Wow, I'm
so sorry that you had to deal with that. What
were the conversations with your coach and your teammates after that?
Speaker 2 (29:26):
We all just kind of talked about how uncomfortable it was,
and it was me who brought up I was like,
we need to like go to the media about this,
Like something about this feels so like icky and wrong
that we need to like tell people. It was like
I have to go like run and tell a trusted
adult like yeah, but yeah, we just kind of like
felt that it wasn't quite right. And actually even some
of our male teammates like sent a message in their
(29:48):
World Cup group chat to say like, hey, like, did
you guys know that they're not providing a female for
the women? Like I don't feel like this is quite right.
So it's not it's not just us that's kind of
feeling that way.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
I'm so glad they did, because unfortun sometimes it does
require men to speak up in these instances. Did you
feel like you mentioned that in Europe? Maybe there it's
not as strange. Did you feel like this was more
a matter of an absence of thought, like they didn't
even consider, Oh, do you think these women would be
(30:18):
more comfortable with a female doctor or do you think
it was something done with intention, like they don't deserve
to have that request. You know, what's the thinking behind
them not even for a second in advance considering that
it would make more sense to have a female doctor
do this.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
I feel like they must have considered it at some point,
because up until now we've had a female doctor. I
think for FIS it was more of a convenience thing,
like it's more convenient for them to only have to
have one doctor there, and I think that's why they
invited like a male obguin trying to cover all their bases.
But I do think it is more kind of a
convenience thing.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
What was the age of the athletes that we're having
to undergo this body testing?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I think our youngest athlete right now is eighteen, and
our oldest on our team is twenty three. But the
procedure is the same for underage athletes, So, like any
you're eligible to compete in international competitions at age fifteen,
and the procedure would be the same for any athlete
wanting to compete at that level.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
So any athletes under eighteen from another country that might
have been there to compete had to undergo this as well. Yeah, yeah,
that seems really problematic. So you reached out to producer
Alex because you saw that she'd written about and covered
ski jumping before. Did you reach out to other media
or other folks to try to see if they were
interested in talking about this?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Not really, I just figured i'd try one and see
how it went, and tried to find a woman who've
written about ski jumping.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
So yeah, yeah, probably not as common as you wish
and hope for.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Right, Well, it's kind of difficult, but looked doubt.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Yeah. Well, I'm so glad Alex brought us the story
because I do think there are elements of sports like
during this interview, I've already learned so much. I've never
heard of the crotch machine or or any of those things,
and I fully get how necessary they are, and to
your point, you actually want them. You want these protocols
in place to make sure that what you're competing in
is as fair as it can be. But obviously there
(32:11):
are ways to ensure that all the athletes feel centered
and taken care of in these moments. So what's the
next step? What else? First of all, do you want
people to know while you have this opportunity on our show, I.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Just would like to say that I don't feel like
fairness should come at the cost of my dignity. There
has got to be some way that we can ensure
the sport is fair without like having all the athletes
strip searched. I think it might require a little bit
more funding or personnel on that front, but I don't
think taking the easy way out at the cost of
(32:43):
like the female athletes is the way to go.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
And what next steps might you want either the US
Key Jumping Federation or other folks that help represent you
and your fellow athletes, what would you like them to do.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
I think just start discussions with this specifically on kind
of the women's front of things, making sure that we're
considered in equipment decisions. A lot of the times they
make decisions for the men and it's just applied to
the women, which is unfair, particularly in suit decisions, because
their bodies are different, and we also fluctuate a lot
more than the men do, like week to week. So
(33:17):
I'd say that, like, I don't even know if there's
a woman on the council for FIS, that's like providing
opinions about this. But if there isn't, I think there
should be, And if they're currently is, maybe they need
to speak up a little bit more because I definitely
feel like the women are the afterbot here.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Are there any other outcomes or extensions of this that
you're worried about.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
I'm kind of worried about what situations the sets minor
athletes up for. Like, there are bad people and predators
out there, and I don't think like normalizing being naked
in a sports context is safe for minors. Like a
lot of us will practice for measurements before we actually
get them done, just because they do influence a lot
(34:00):
for your season. And I don't want there to be
a situation where a predatory coach says to a minor
athlete like, hey, like we need to practice measurements. You
strip down naked to get these measurements, Like that's just
how it goes.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
The practicing is so that you know your coach might
give you tips on like how to stand, to make
sure that you're not giving them measurements that would be disadvantageous.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Yeah, Like I like the difference between like standing all
the way straight up and like ducking your chin a
little bit can make like a centimeter difference. So just
practicing to make sure you know exactly what you're going
to do when you're walking in there.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
What's next for you are the Olympics on the horizon.
I don't know anything about the qualifying for that. Is
that what these events that you're currently competing in are
leading up to.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Yeah, so our Olympic qualifying period actually started last July.
We have a really really long qualifying period. All points
that are scored in Grand Prix, which are summer competitions
and World Cups, count towards qualifying quota spots for your country.
So when we qualify a quota spot, that spot isn't
necessarily yours, and then starting in December, we'll start competing
(35:08):
for those spots. So like right now, I have I
think like one hundred and something points, which is definitely
high enough to keep a quota spot for the US.
And that's good, And if I can continue buying results
from last season, I'll have a really good shot at
securing one of those quota spots for myself.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Amazing congratulations on that. And then you're also in school
hoping to graduate next.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Year right the year after next year.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Yeah, okay, okay, we've backed it up a little on
your on your LinkedIn. We were aiming for twenty twenty six,
but the ski jumping has taken priority a little.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Yeah, I had to transfer. I was originally at the
University of Utah, but transferred to the University of North
Dakota because of their online program. But that transfer did
set me back a year.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Got it And is the eventual goal to be a dentist?
Speaker 2 (35:56):
It is. Yeah, I actually just got my DAT scores
back today. I'm really excited.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
How'd you do?
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Really really good?
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Crushed it? Amazing, amazing. Well, you just seem like an
incredibly impressive woman between the biomedical engineering and the pre
dental and the ski jumping and your travels and your
photography on your install, like you seem like you're crushing life.
And you're still so young. So we can't wait to
see what you do in the qualifying And we're so
(36:23):
grateful you were willing to talk about this. I think
that is the biggest thing, is just athletes getting out
and saying like, this is what we need, this is
what we deserve, this is what we have dealt with,
and we should improve it. And I think that you're
going to be a great voice in helping change things
going forward. So thanks so much for talking to us
about it.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yeah, thanks so much for having me. It's you know,
sometimes hard to get a spotlight on small, niche sports
like ski jumping, so I really I really appreciate you
taking the time to kind of like actually do the
research and invite me on here.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Yeah. Well, big thanks to Alex for bringing the story
to the show, and also to you for allowing us
to name a show inevitably the Crotch Machine percent what
we're naming the show. Thanks to Paige not just for
taking the time to talk to us, but for reaching
out to us to share her story. After speaking with her,
we contacted FISS, the organization that oversees international ski jumping
(37:15):
competition and creates and enforces the protocols that Paige and
her fellow athletes are subjected to. We wanted to see
if they had any comment on the experience page described
and to ask a few clarifying questions. As part of
their lengthy, very helpful response, FISS said, quote, FISS is
fully committed to a fair sport and to protecting honest
competitors from being harmed by any form of fraud or manipulation.
(37:38):
We are also committed to doing so while showing the
utmost respect for the athletes safety and well being. This
is non negotiable. End quote. We asked FIS about the
reason that a naked legs spread examination is required in
the first place, and they offered some insight on that
noting quote. Over the course of the last couple of years,
there have been a few occasions in which athletes attempted
(37:58):
to defraud the three D measurement process, for example by
adding prosthetic like parts to that area of the body.
This was the reason why this year's protocol was further
developed end quote. As for the evolving procedural changes and
athlete rites, FISS said, the three D body scan protocol
quote gives the athlete the possibility to refuse to undergo
the procedure in case they feel uncomfortable, and postpone the
(38:20):
measurement for a later date with no penalties or consequences.
End quote. It's worth noting, though, according to Page the
chance to refuse or postpone came on site five minutes
in advance of the procedure, and while FI set an
athlete who refuses wouldn't be penalized or have any consequences.
They also wouldn't be allowed to compete, and with prize
money and Olympic qualifying points on the line, athletes would
(38:42):
still be impacted by opting out. We also wanted clarification
from FISS on the rules that are in place for
minor athletes, given that page said all athletes went through
the same procedure, even those under the age of eighteen.
Fifth wrote back to say, the protocol recommends quote the
presence of a parent or egal caretaker at the moment
of the exam, or, in case this is not possible,
(39:03):
of a team member preferably of the same gender as
the athlete, authorized by the parent or legal caretaker, who
would also be signatories at the consent form end quote.
As for the doctor that was provided at the event
in France, that page attended, the statement from FISS says,
quote for that competition, FIS brought in a renowned medical doctor,
in fact, with extensive experience working with women's health to
(39:25):
perform body inspections for the twenty twenty five twenty twenty
six season. FIST continued with that said, we absolutely respect
the athlete's feelings and understand that the presence of a
male doctor may be deemed uncomfortable by female athletes. FIS
acknowledges this kind of constructive feedback and hereby commits going
forward to offering female athletes the possibility of being examined
(39:45):
by a female doctor end quote. We reached out to
FIS to clarify how intentional the use of the word
possibility was, i e. Was it interchangeable with option or opportunity.
Did they mean a female doctor will be guaranteed at
all future events or that it's just a possibility that
a female doctor will be provided. FISS replied that quote,
(40:05):
whenever there are three D body scans scheduled for female athletes,
they will be allowed to request for it to be
conducted by a female doctor. End quote. We'll keep you
all updated if we learn any more about these evolving procedures,
and we're always open to hearing from other athletes as well,
ski jumpers and non ski jumpers alike. We know that
there are a lot of ways that competing in elite
sport can require sort of necessary invasions of privacy, but
(40:28):
that doesn't mean that those experiences shouldn't be as comfortable,
safe and professional as possible. So if you have your
own story to share, please reach out. Our email is
good game at wondermedianetwork dot com. In the meantime, we
really appreciate Page for sharing her story and Fiss for
getting back to us and saying the organization is willing
to make changes based on athletes safety concerns and feedback.
(40:49):
One of the reasons this story feels so important to
us is something Alex mentioned when we were talking about
the show today, and that the situation isn't always toxic
or abusive. Sometimes it's just about improving practice so that
athletes have the best experience possible. And that's why it's
so important to talk about things like this. Even if
everyone had the best intentions, that doesn't mean we can't
still make improvements. All right, we have to take another break.
(41:10):
When we return, it's my party. You can come out
if you want to come out, if you want to
come out, if you want to stick around. Welcome back slices.
We love that you're listening, but we want you to
get in the game every day too, So here's our
good game play of the day. Follow Page on social media.
We'll link to her socials in the show notes. And
(41:32):
if you did something nice for somebody in honor of
my birthday yesterday, don't forget to send me a message.
I want to hear about it. Hit us up on
email Good Game at Wondermedia network dot com, or leave
us a voicemail at eight seven two two four fifty seventy,
and don't forget to subscribe, Rate and review, y'all. It's
easy watch using my birthday party to come out rating
one out of one Super Slices review. Y'all might remember
(41:55):
me mentioning super Slice Emma aka at the Stitch God
on Instagram, the world's best cross stitch artist who works
with tons of teams and athletes and brands and celebs
and made my super dope corduroy good game hat. Well,
Emma came to my birthday party this weekend and she
used the occasion of my birth to publicly tell the
world she's gay. Marcus. Now. Lots of folks in her life,
(42:18):
of course already know this, but she needed to send
a crystal clear message to the men in her dms,
and she did that using a custom fake cake from
Chicago based artist Anna Lasberry aka at Crappy cake art
on Insta and TikTok. Now anacrafts these intentionally imperfect messages
via crappy cakes to honor life's messy moments through love
and encouragement and humor. And she even leaves some of
(42:41):
her fake cake creations around Chicago for passers by to
discover and delight in and take home with them. And
for this particular occasion, the fake cake read She's gay,
Marcus and on the back Sarah, Happy birthday, Thanks for
hosting my coming out party. Lol XO Emma, So there
you have it. Men in her DMS she's gay. Hey,
it's right there on a fake cake. I'm sorry to
(43:03):
those man's congrats Emma. Oh and Alex and Mesh. Gotta
say thank you for the surprise birthday wishes you dropped
into yesterday's episode. It was both sweet and snarky, which
is basically my whole personality. You get me, you really
get me, and I will have you know. At my
birthday party, I drank a shot of milort hit a
(43:23):
slow Moo dance move, ripped off several shirts a la
Brandy Chastain because we had a different costume for each
stop after all, and I basically live stream the party
with all the photos and videos I took. I even
did the splits well dressed as a Christmas pickle, So
the only thing missing is the Sam Carr backflip. Guess
I have something to train for ahead of next year's birthday.
(43:43):
Now it's your turn, y'all, rate and review. Thanks for listening,
See you tomorrow. Good Game Page, Good game, Emma. You
heat delays. I'm worried We're gonna have more and more
of those in the years to come. Good Game with
Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership
with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
(44:06):
your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are
Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive producers are Christina Everett,
Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutder. Our editors are
Emily Rutterer, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and Gianna Palmer. Our
associate producer is Lucy Jones. Production assistance from Avery Loftus
(44:26):
and I'm your Host Sarah Spain
Host
Sarah Spain
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.