September 13, 2024 • 45 mins
Chicago Sky reporter Annie Costabile joins Sarah to discuss Angel Reese’s impact on and off the court, how the W will respond to the fallout from Cathy Engelbert’s interview, the importance of media literacy, and how if you try to replicate, you’re already behind. Plus, no triskaidekaphobia over here, how ‘bout you?
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Check out Flavor Flav’s custom bronze clock for Jordan Chiles here
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Read Annie Costabile’s coverage for the Chicago Sun-Times here
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Read Callie Lawson-Freeman’s story on the WNBA and Las Vegas Aces response to Dearica Hamby’s lawsuit here
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The full WNBA schedule – including tune-in info – is here!
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The full NWSL schedule – including tune-in info – is here!
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Send us your ridiculous sports rivalries! Shoot us an email at goodgame@wondermedianetwork.com or leave us a voicemail at 872-204-5070
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Follow Sarah on social! X: @SarahSpain Instagram: @Spain2323
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Follow producer Misha Jones! X: @mishthejrnalist Instagram: @mishthejrnalist TikTok: @mishthejrnalist
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Follow producer Alex Azzi! X: @ByAlexAzzi
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're adding
an apostropheed to every word to celebrate Asia Wilson.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
On today's show, we'll be.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Talking to Chicago Sky reporter Annie Costable at the Chicago
Sun Times about Angel Reese's rookie season, the backlash to
WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert's comments, and adjusting to a new
normal in WNBA coverage. Plus we'll celebrate some sly social posts,
bronze clocks, and ridiculous rivalries. It's all coming up right
after this Happy Friday the thirteenth slices.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Here's what you need to know today.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
The scariest person in sports continues to be an absolute killer,
and that's Asia Wilson. Wilson had twenty seven points and
twelve rebounds to lead the Las Vegas Aces to an
eighty six to seventy five win over the Indiana Fever
on Wednesday night, shortly after we finished recording our episode.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Wilson's pull up.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Jumper with twenty six seconds left in the first half
brought it to nine hundred and forty one points this year,
breaking the WNB record for most points in a season.
Jewell Lloyd held the previous record thanks to her nine
hundred and thirty nine points last season. Wilson finished the
night with the season total of nine hundred and fifty six,
and the Aces still have four more games remaining in
the regular season. This is just the second WNBA season
(01:15):
to feature forty regular season games. The w's first season
was just twenty eight games long, and for the majority
of the league's history, the season totaled thirty four games,
so Asia will get a couple extra games.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
All that said, though she still.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Currently tops the charts when it comes to most points
per game in w history. She's averaging twenty seven point
three so far this season, two more than the current
record holder, Diana Tarassi, who averaged twenty five point.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Two per game back in two thousand and six.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Also, we have to shout out the Aces social team
for the best possible response to Wilson's record breaking moment.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
They tweeted out, Bam, there it is.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Asia Wilson has the single greatest scoring season in WNBA history.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
You guys, hear that, hear that, Bam.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
And bam Outebaio him self even chimed in writing unanimous,
as in you apostrophe nanimous cute apostre bam at it again.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
We love those two.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
More WNBA some scary hours for WNBA fans, as there's
just one week left in the regular season and the
battle for playoff spots and home court advantage will come
down to the wire. Looking ahead to tonight, the good
news is there are five WNBA games on the schedule.
The bad news is four of the five have the
same exact start time, seven thirty pm Eastern, So get
(02:30):
out your laptop and your phone and that old phone
you still have line around because it's a multi screen
kind of night. As a reminder, we got three teams,
the Chicago Sky, Atlanta Dream, and the Washington Mystics, all
fighting for the eighth and final playoff spot, and each
of those teams has four games left, and two of
the final four for the Mystics and Dream are against
each other.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
This is going to get spicy' all.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
The Mystics had a big win over the Sky on Wednesday,
they travel to Atlanta tonight. Meanwhile, the Minnesota Links play
host to the Chicago Sky. Will link to the full
schedule in our show notes. Final WNBA note before we
move on. On Wednesday, both the WNBA and the Las
Vegas Aces filed motions to dismiss the Sparks Deerica Hamby's
federal lawsuit. According to reporter Calli Lawson Freeman of the
(03:11):
Las Vegas Review Journal, the WNBA's lawyers argue that Hamby's
case should be dismissed because Hamby's claim under the Civil
Rights Act quote fail in their entirety because Hamby does
not plausibly allege that the WNBA quote unquote employed her.
We'll link to Kelly's story in the show notes. To
soccer in the NWSL, there are seven match days left
(03:31):
in the NWSL regular season. If the postseason started today,
the Orlando Pride would be the top seeded team in
the league, while the Chicago Red Stars would be the
eighth and final team to make the postseason. But there's
plenty of time for those standings to get shaken up.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Tonight, We're especially excited.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
For the matchup between the aforementioned top of the table
Pride and the third place Casey Current. That's an eight
pm Eastern kickoff in Orlando, and we'll link to the
full NWSL schedule in our show notes. Also, can we
spend just a sec here talking about what it must
be like to be a Washer Spirit fan.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
This team has reached such high.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Highs and also low lows over the last couple of seasons,
winning the twenty twenty one NWSL title, amit a tumultuous
season and calls for ownership change, and then they didn't
qualify for.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
The playoffs the last two seasons.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Now they got Magic Johnson on the sideline and they've
got it, and by it, I mean mostly the incredible
Trinity Rodman. Last weekend, she notched her twentieth career assist,
making her the youngest player in NWSL history to accomplish
that feat.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
By nearly three years.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
And she had Chicago skyrookie Camilla Cardoso rocking her jersey
before the game the other night.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
In fact, that Rodman jersey has been.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Spotted all sorts of places lately, US Open everywhere.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
It's like I said, she's it.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
The Spirit is currently second in the standings, just six
points behind Orlando to golf, the twenty twenty four Solheim
Cup tease off today in Gainesville, Virginia.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Quick refresher for you.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Okay, So, the Solheim Cup is a biennial women's golf
tournament contested between the US and Europe.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
The events started in nineteen ninety. This year's the nineteenth
edition of the tournament.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Europe enters this Year'storney as the three time defending champions,
but the US leads the overall series all time ten
seven in one.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Now that one.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Tie it actually happened in the most recent edition of
the tournament. The twenty twenty three Solheim Cup ended in
a fourteen to fourteen tie, but since Europe was the
most recent champion, they got to keep possession of the trophy. Now,
if you're confused about marking it a tie but counting
it as a win, join the club. We're gonna have
a golf guest on next week to explain that and
a whole lot more. Meantime, you can watch the Solheim
Cup live on NBC Peacock and the Golf Channel.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
To gymnastics.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
After Jordan Chiles was stripped of her Olympic floor bronze
medal in August, you might recall that Flavor Flave promised
to make her a custom bronze clock, writing on Twitter
quote that's something no one else has. While on Wednesday
night at the VMAs, he made good on that promise,
presenting Jordan with her own custom bronze clock medal. And
we also have to shout out Flay for making the
(05:52):
presentation while wearing a water polo cap on stage and
shouting out his role as official hype man of the
US women's national water polo team.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
That man is always on the clock. We're going to
take a break.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
When we come back, we'll talk Angel Reese, unhinged fans,
and the commissions stumble with Annie Constable.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Joining us now.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
She writes about the WNBA, predominantly the Chicago sky for
the Chicago Sun Times. She thinks there should be tunnel
fit picks for journals. She's taller than I remember every
single time I see her, and for the last time, people,
she doesn't write the headlines.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
For her stories. Okay, it's Annie Constable.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Annie, what's up, Sarah? Thank you for having me.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Thank you for that introduction too, because I still firmly
believe journalists should have tunnel fit pick only somebody I'm
waiting for my opportunity, Like I want to be on
league fits so bad.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, because you're like a thrift queen love super unique style.
There are people who shall not be named who should
not have tunnel fits and they appreciate the job because
they don't and aren't required to have to worry about
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
So my choice, my choice.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Yes, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
You've been covering the Sky for a few years now,
and this year you've really got a front row seat
to rookie sensation Angel Reese's debut season. I'd love to
start just like big picture there because obviously the Sky
won the whole thing a couple of years ago, Candice
Parker was in town. It became a thing in a
way it hadn't been before. But I still think there's
a difference pre Angel to post Angel.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Can you kind of describe how this year has compared
to previously.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
Yeah, I love this question because there is a very
distinct difference and one of my favorite ways to describe
that difference, and I'm actually working on a story that
that'll be an off season story that kind of gets
into this, but is the difference can best be described
by this interview that I actually did with Dwayne Wade
and Gabrielle Union and we were it was before I
(07:50):
think maybe their first home game that I caught up
with them and I, you know, ran over a court
side where they were sitting and I wanted their perspective
on this exact thing. I was like, what, you know, like,
can you put into words what's going on with this team?
And in my mind, having covered the NBA as well,
my my comparison was the Golden State Warriors. And when
(08:14):
whenever the Golden State Warriors traveled to an away game
anywhere they go, it's like it's like the Beatles are
in town, Fans flock to to see them. They crowd
the tunnel, you know, when when the players take the
core at pregame, it's it's this reaction that is so
much bigger than just a game. And so that was
(08:36):
was what I was seeing, you know, through the first
few games of the season, and I'm like, how do
how do other players? How do other professionals in this business?
How do how does someone like like Duwayne Wade perceive this?
And the funniest thing that Gabrielle said to me was,
you know, you mentioned the Warriors, but I'm gonna mention
the Heatles. And you know, obviously I was talking about
(08:59):
Dayne Wade and Lebron James and Chris Bosh and I
think that's the best way to describe, you know, that
aspect of Angel's impact and that the sky are bigger
than just a basketball team.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
And when you have a team that's not doing.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
Well, you know, in terms of wins and losses, this
this stuff matters. And so I think that's the impact
is that this team. People care about this team not
just because of what's what's happening on the court. They
they want to know about Angel's life off the court.
They want to know, you know, where these players are shopping,
what they're doing in their free time. They want to
(09:36):
know about them as humans. And I think that's the
way that sports as we know it like grow, is
what people care about the teams beyond just the game
as we wins.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
How is Angel's first year compared to your expectations coming in?
There were a lot of questions about how she would
transition to the pro style game.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
I think everyone I spoke to before the draft was
very confident in how her rebus bounding was going to
translate to the game, like how she was going to
have this instant impact. I know, you know, I don't
even like to call them fans, but we'll call them
like observers or opinionated. I don't know, people you know
(10:14):
questioned her efficiency and all these other aspects of her game.
But the professionals I talked to, the GMS, I talked to,
the coaches I talked to, they all were talking about
how she undoubtedly would translate to the W because of
her rebounding and because of her impact that comes from
these hustle plays she makes and the way she approaches
(10:36):
the game and her mental approach to the game. So
to be honest, I think the biggest surprise to me
was not that she's having an impact, but just how
significant her impact actually is. Like for a number seven
pick to be in the conversation for Rookie of the Year,
not even to be in the conversation, but for the
(10:58):
entire first half the half of the season, really be
like leading that conversation in many people's minds. That's what
not even surprised me, but just stood out to me
about how impactful she's actually been.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yeah, and you have to wonder if there are other
teams who are thinking, now, we should have grabbed her
before that number seven pick, or we should have worked
or traded up to try to get her because.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
She's had that impact.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
I do want to get back to something you said though,
because I am as a basketball watcher, as a sky fan,
and as someone who played basketball, I am sort of
intrigued by that conversation around efficiency versus efficacy. She is
undeniable in her efficacy. You look at the number she
puts up, the effect she has on the game, the
(11:43):
impact she's had on this team.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
But she does at times have poor efficiency.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Now it is exaggerated by those who have a bone
to pick in the Caitlin versus Angel thing. They'll say
she wouldn't have any rebounds if she weren't rebounding her
own offensive missus, which, by the way, multiple people have
actually done the work to watch and been able to
say she would still be leading the league in offensive
rebounds even if she didn't get a single one of
her own misses.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
So let's put that out there that that is a lie.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
And still she obviously has a lot of work to
do on other parts of her game. Where do you
see her being able to improve so that she is
a more multifaceted a threat as opposed to just doing
that work kind of in the pain.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
So this is another question I love and just a
conversation I love because again, you know this like you
have covered professional sports. Professional athletes are not afraid to
talk about ways in which they need to improve. And
Angel is a professional, like she shows up every day
(12:40):
to work ready to improve at her job, which is
playing basketball. And so one of those aspects that needs improvement,
like you mentioned, is her efficiency, and she doesn't shy
away from that, like she talks actively about that. And
so I think when specifically talking about her efficiency, another
ass aspect of improving that that she's talked about is
(13:02):
is just.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Slowing down the game.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Like something advice she's gotten from veterans is is you
need to slow down when you're when you're rushing through
these shots, when you're rushing your your footwork, all of
these aspects of what it is to be a four
or five in the w n B A, you end
up kind of like we've seen her, uh, failing to execute.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
These very very easy shots.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
That that again, with with practice and with you know,
dedicated practice, that's going to be an aspect of her
game that she's going to be able to improve. And
and then the other thing that I just love to
talk about when it comes to her efficiency and the
whole like, oh, her getting her own rebounds is like, wait,
do people want her not to try and get offensive?
(13:51):
Like would that make everybody feel better if she wasn't
trying to get the pookback?
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Like I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
It speaks to those gms and coaches were talking about
before she was drafted, and that her hustle and the
way she plays the game, that's not something that can
be taught. That's an intangible And when you hear players
talk about these intangible qualities or coaches talk about these
intangible qualities, those matter just as much as the aspects
(14:20):
of your game like efficiency. And so for Angel, I
think watching what she does this offseason, watching how she improves,
is going to be really exciting because she's focused on that.
And then just to add like a quick note too,
it's like she wants to expand her shot range.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
She said in her.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Post, you know when she broke the news about her
season ending injury, is like, oh, it's hysterical.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
My last shot of my rookie season was a three.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
It's like that speaks to again ways in what she
wants to improve her game. She wants to be a
traditional stretch for and you know all the skeptics, let
them say what they want to say, we'll see what
she does next year.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, and if you're ever at the games, I do
think it's wild how she has already achieved that Rodman
effect of the fans knowing the work she's putting into
the rebounds and going crazy when she gets a good one.
That's not normal like maybe a crazy physical place someone
will notice, but for the most part, people pull down
rebounds and keep it moving. When Angel gets a rebound
at a sky game at home, the crowd goes wild.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
It's really cool to see. I mentioned the headlines off
the top, and I want to talk about that.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Can you start by explaining to folks how newspapers work
and why it's been an issue for you this year
that you don't write your own headlines?
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Yeah, So, first off, I think when it comes to
media literacy, conversations like this are so important because it's
not going to be clearly communicated on social media.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
And I think.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
Also like respect needs to be given to the people
who pioneered coverage of this league and other women's sports leagues,
and those were blogs, those were fans, like those were
the people that were showing up historic to cover these leagues.
So now that traditional media is coming in. It's it's like,
(16:06):
I will never push back on people's response to our coverage,
whether it's good or bad, because it's just part of
it's part of the industry.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
So when it comes to my.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Job specifically, obviously, being a beat writer means you're there
every day. You're there at practice, you're there at shoot arounds,
you're there on the road, You're there every single day.
And when it comes to game day coverage, for me specifically,
I'm writing two stories on deadline, and so the way
that works is like I'm filing a notebook story, which
(16:39):
is sometimes you know, sometimes like a big picture story,
maybe a league wide story, something that you don't have
the time to expand upon right in that moment, but
you're you're going to get to it later, and little
notes that you want people to know about.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
I have to file that by halftime.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
You know, our editors are editing that getting it into
the print copy. That's happening at halftime. My final game
deadline is nine forty five for anybody that wants to
know specific like, I have to get that story in
by nine forty five in order for it to make
the print copy. And so what comes with that is
(17:16):
obviously like I'm doing my job and there's someone else
that's doing an entirely different job, which is editing my copy.
There's someone else who again is is laying out the paper,
pulling a picture to use on the back page, coming
up with the copy that's going on the back page.
Everything from again the headline to that sub headline you're seeing,
(17:36):
and that's something that's that's that's not in my job title,
that's not in my list of duties. And so often
I'm honestly ninety percent of the time, i would say
ninety nine percent of the time I'm seeing the back
page if it is my story at the same time
as everybody else. And so there's that's that's the reality
(17:59):
of our business. Because again, you couldn't get a print
coffee out if if one person was tasked with doing
all of that. So for starters, you know, that's how
it goes. That's how that's how my job goes.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, and then there was a time this season in particular,
that you sent out a story that was, you know,
full of a bunch of different facts and commentary and
thoughts on the game at an included commentary on Diamond
Deshields and her foul on Caitlin Clark, and the headline
and the photo were maybe not what you would have chosen.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
No exactly, And I think I work for an outlet,
and I'm so thankful that I want. I work for
an outlet that has supported me and this coverage that
sends me on the road, that pays me a full
time salary to show up every day to cover the WNBA.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
I know how few jobs there are that allow a.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Person to do that, and so I am so thankful
for this position. I'm in. Also to that note, I'm
thankful that I work for editors who encourage me to
cover women the same way that I cover men, and
that's with a critical lens when necessary. That's writing columns
when necessary. That's also writing, you know, features that maybe
(19:17):
aren't just critical when necessary. It's everything right combined into one.
They're allowing me to do that, and they're encouraging me
to do that. They're encouraging me to be skeptical, they're
encouraging me again to go hard when necessary. And so
for this game specifically, there were two aspects that to
me were front and center, and that was the fever
(19:39):
in the Sky at the beginning of the year were
very much described as being in similar positions by myself.
Included like, these are two franchises that are rebuilding, and
while the Fever have openly admitted to their rebuild, the
Sky even though they don't want to say it, are
still rebuilding, and so these are two franchises that are
on similar trajectories. Well, we know, coming back from the
(20:02):
Olympic break, the Fever went left and the Sky went right,
and so that was an aspect of the story that
needed to be talked about, is how the Fever are
taking off in the Sky are falling right now. The
other aspect of it, part of the Sky falling is
the fact that in these late game scenarios which we
(20:22):
saw during this losing streak, they've lacked composure. They've openly
talked about players, Spoon, everybody within this organization has openly
in interviews, whether it's pregame, whether it's postgame, whether it's
me on the road talking to them, have not shied
away from the fact that in these moments they've lacked composure.
(20:45):
So me knowing that and having that context, when Diamond
committed that flagrant fall, it wasn't about it being a
personal attack on Caitlin. I love basketball, Okay, I'm not
going to look at it in that way.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
It was not a personal attack on Caitlin. It never
has been.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
But this fall while the Sky are down almost thirty,
they were down twenty seven points at that point in
the game. To commit that flagrant foul in garbage minutes
was a reflection of the context I was trying to
bring to the game.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
And absolutely the.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
Sky have lacked composure here. You have a veteran player
committing a flagrant fall, whoever it was on. That's important
context to describe where this team is at, absolutely in.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
The bigger picture.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
And so that was the story, and that was part
of the story, and as a journalist, that's my job
to again describe the story and bring the context to it.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
But the headline and the photo ended up making it
feel like the story was about the Sky having it
out for Caitlin, this being Kennedy Carter flagrant number two remix,
and fans were coming after you for that being the
focus instead of the rest of the game. There's been
this push and pull in Chicago's newspapers and the world
(22:09):
of this WNBA season between experts and others, And there
was a particularly unpalatable op ed from the Chicago Tribune
editorial board early in the season talking about that Kennedy
Carter and News making flagrant foul against Clark. They wrote, quote,
outside of a sporting contest, it would have been seen
as assault, which, by the way, is something that could
be said of like half of the things that happened
on a field to record, Like most of the things
we need each other in sports are agreed upon that
(22:31):
we can do and would be assault if we did
them to a stranger.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
That's beside the point.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
The point is more that this divide between the game
knowers and others has felt especially wide this season. How
has it felt to you as a journalist and have
you had to change your job at all to appease
or understanding that there are a lot more people reading
and listing that don't know shit about shit?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
You know.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
I think my approach not even to my job in
this respect, but like life in general, is when you're
getting that much feedback, like something is that loud, you
have to look inward and you have to take a
step back and be like, Okay, if this is the reaction,
if the reaction is this strong.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
My reaction can't be oh, you all don't know.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
The journalism business, Like I'm gonna ignore you, you know
what I'm saying. Like it's important, like as humans, in
any relationship, whether it's work, whether it's like friendship, whether
it's like with a loved one, your partner, it's important
that when you're getting feedback, your reaction is not oh,
I did nothing wrong, like we did nothing wrong, you
(23:37):
know what I'm saying. So when it comes to the
feedback as hard like as much as it because girl,
it hurts, it hurts so much.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
And so for me, it's more so.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
Staying focused and locked in on executing your job in
a in a healthy, like successful manner. And I've always
been very very intentional with like my word choice, and
very very you know, just strategic, you know, and thoughtful
(24:15):
to more so just kind of show up harder, like
show up more consistent, show up and really continue to
do your job and and and stand behind the job
that you do.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
You know, I don't help, no, I mean, first of all,
it's great advice. One of my favorite, like recent internet
memes is normalize getting more information and changing your mind
like that is just an approach to life we shall have.
But to what you said, it's really smart like to
take the criticism and first ask, okay, let me sit
with myself and see where this supplies, where it's accurate,
what I can do differently, how they're right, and then
(24:49):
also let me put into context to saying it, what
their knowledge is of the situation, the game, et cetera.
And how do I make it so that my work
helps educate them as I help pull them along to
catch up. Not let me tell you how stupid you are.
This is the emotion. Yes, you don't know what you're
talking about, and welcome, let me help you learn.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
So that's been a really tough job I think for
people in the W this season when it comes to
specifically Reese, Caitlin, Kennedy Carter, like those are especially for conversations.
I have found myself sometimes not posting things on social
media because I honestly don't want to deal with the
unhinged responses. I am sometimes posting and I'm very strategic,
and other times I'm like, I have stuff to say,
and you know what, I don't have time today. I
(25:32):
just don't have time for the mental load it's going
to take for some of these people to be in
the mentions. Maybe some of them will be right about
some things. Oh that's an interesting thought, and so many
of them it will feel.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Uneducated and uninformed.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
How have you handled that and how is it, if
at all, changed your coverage this year committed to previous
years in the W.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
You know, I gotta be honest, I and maybe someone
from the house I would have to speak to, like, Oh,
has Annie's coverage seemed to change? I feel like my
coverage has consistently gotten more critical in a healthy way.
(26:16):
Like I think about my first year covering the Sky
and I was like, I was so fresh, and you know,
they're winning a title. And there were times that year
when I would think, because again I go back to
I want to cover women's sports the same way I
cover mens, Like, I don't want to be afraid of
asking hard questions. I don't want to coddle and write
(26:38):
these puff pieces.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
And so going back.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
To that twenty twenty one year, I remember thinking, oh,
my god, am I being too soft? Like?
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Is am I going too easy?
Speaker 4 (26:46):
But again, it's easy to go easy when you're winning
a title, But mentally it's entirely impacted the way I
approach social media, the way that I share stories. Like
there's been times this year, Sarah where I have not
even like shared stories because i've I've I just mentally
(27:10):
was not like ready for to go then go on
social media and get those responses.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
So that's what's changed.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
And I think that just takes you know, having thicked
skin and continuing to grow in the industry and knowing like, again,
you know what you're doing, and it's okay to share
your stories and it's okay for people to disagree, yeah,
with the way you cover teams.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
And also to your point, there was a plague of
women's sports coverage that felt necessary at the time that
was a bit cheerleadery because the well was so poisoned
already that if the majority of people are shit talking,
the reporters almost need to elevate in a way that
feels too soft. We're not there anymore, and the necessary
step to keep growing the game is now to offer
the same critical eye so that there are things to debate.
(27:57):
There are players to criticize when they're not playing well,
there coaches to say should be fired. All of that
is fair game in sports. It felt wrong or difficult
to do before. Now it should be the norm, and
you're doing a great job of that. So it's easier
said than done. But keep at it and don't don't
let the haters get you down. Speaking of haters, Commissioner
Kathy Engelbert has a few right now. She missed the
(28:18):
mark on her CNBC interview the other night when asked
about the uptick in racist and homophobic commentary from fans
and the dark side to the growing rivalry and the
attention on Clark and Reese. How big of a disconnect
do you think there is between the league's leadership and
the league's players, Because it has felt like such a beautiful,
collaborative and collective group. But now I'm starting to wonder
(28:38):
how much it's just been the players, almost in spite
of some leadership that's maybe not as connected as we imagined.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
You know, I think this is a really unfortunate reality
for women's sports in general and for women in general.
Like I might get too big picture here, but girl,
I know you're gonna feel this. How often have we
(29:05):
had to fight and bark and be like listen to me,
I Like, this is what we need to be doing
blah blah blah, all to be told, to be ignored,
to be talked over, to be dismissed.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
But then the second it looks good. The second the
second what we were barking about picks up. It's like,
oh yeah, yeah, no, we stand on that, like yeah,
we're proud of that, Like we're proud of Yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
I love this. It's like for the for these W players, go,
let's go back to the beginning. I mean, talk about
the beginning of the W, when it was pushed on
players to to show up a certain way in order
to attract a certain fan base. And then it took
players like I think about Cappy Pondexter and her looks
(29:53):
like Ty Young too. It's like, these are players who
started showing up in these authentic ways and making like
authentic ticity the norm. And so then that became the
w's identity of like, oh, if you're an authentic person
who no matter who you are or how, you show
up like, we're the league for you.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
And it's like, well, there was a time when that
wasn't the case.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
And so now when I think about this specific instance,
and I talked to Brianna Turner about this it wasn't this,
although this is heightened and there's no doubt about that.
Although what Angel Race is experiencing is completely, you know,
the one end of the stick, the absolute worst type
(30:40):
of treatment that anybody should experience. Players have been talking
about this hostility and this racism and this misogyny and
homophobia on social media for a long time, like Bree
talked about, you know, it started the second I got drafted,
and so I think players have been vocalizing how uncomfortable
(31:03):
social media is and and it's now become this thing
where it's getting conflated with rivalry, and that's not what
should be happening here, you know, Like that's not where
this conversation should be going. It's like, oh yeah, it's
okay for these comments. It's it comes with it comes
(31:25):
with the industry. Just ignore it, you know, just ignore it.
It's like, oh yeah, really solid advice. I never thought
we never thought of that, No one ever thought of Like,
but what.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
I guess, like, what what is I mean?
Speaker 1 (31:38):
As someone who did a viral PSA about the terrible
treatment that women, particularly my case, women's sports reporters, was
the focus of ours get but it sort of spread
because it was universal. There aren't a lot of easy
answers right now, There aren't a lot of solutions. But
it feels like this league in the past has taken
on big problems and found collact aborative and collective ways
(32:01):
to address them. It almost feels like they drop the
ball on this one. Whether that's the league office or
the coaches or the players, they just didn't get out
ahead of it in a way that felt like maybe
they could have known that the ball was rolling down
the hills starting with March madness. Do you think that
we will now see as a result of Engelbert's interview
some sort of action or effort from the league or
(32:23):
players to figure out how to at the very least
be a unified front in opposition to some of what
we're seeing. So it doesn't feel like right now where
it does feel like you can pit players or teams
against each other instead of believing that they're all on
the same side of this.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
Yeah, I think absolutely, because I think anytime the players
come together on or collectively are like, no, that's not
what we stand for, we don't.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
We disagree hard, there's always.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
A response that's on the other side, and so I
don't know what that response will be. I don't know
what the change will be, but I've from my history
of covering this league, there's always been a moment of
disagreement and then a response to it and response for it. Yeah,
and so I think that these are maybe conversations that
(33:13):
are going to happen in the off season. These are
conversations between the WMVPA.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
And the league.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
And I think, you know, for Kathy, it's like, this
was just a very simple moment for you to just
merely denounce the racism and bigotry and homophobia, and you
just you didn't do that, and so that was that
was your mistake, and now you have to carry it.
And even though you might not have the answer for
(33:39):
what should be going on on social media or how
to prevent players from experiencing it, that's not what players.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Needed from you. They just needed you to have their back.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Well, and she almost fostered it by trying to spin
it into a business opportunity. Rivalries are great for us,
And it's like, wait, wait, wait, are you saying that
what's happening to these players is great for the league,
because not only is it not yes attention to rivalries
is great, but this kind of vibe around the league
I think can ultimately be damaging. You're going to create
narratives for the league, which I think is one of
(34:10):
the biggest problems this season has had is we're assigning political, social, racial,
homophobic ideas to people before knowing anything about how they
actually feel, and then we're using those to fuel culture wars.
We're using them as avatars for our own battles. Can
we nip that in the bud by at least saying
whatever you're saying, Like, look at Caitlyn Clark liking a
(34:33):
Taylor Swift post about ash and Kamala and voting her
fan base now coming in and saying.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
I'm not watching you anymore. Okay, what were you watching
her for? Were you watching it for basketball?
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Or was she an avatar of a white girl disrupted
predominantly black space and you enjoyed that and now you
don't anymore?
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Right?
Speaker 4 (34:50):
I think what's interesting about it as we're seeing kind
of what this Caitlyn Clark Taylor Swift moment is lunatic
people are going to still be lunatics even after you
make your statement, after you try to bring some sense
to them, and so it's like what can the w
do where where they make things clear, but we also
(35:15):
have to, I don't know, get comfortable with like I
don't know, they're always going to be lunatics, but intact
from what you can protect from.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
And that's what i'm That's what I mean is like there,
it's the same in men's sports, and the bigger and
more popular you get, the more you have of all
of it, the good and the bad, and so you
have to just kind of sift away the fringe and
say this is unreachable. But within the WNBA family of reporters, fans, diehards,
there is still a conflict that didn't exist before that's
(35:50):
a result of all of this added noise, and can
you try to get more on the same page with
moving forward that they feel supported by their commissioner, supported
by their league as they continue to have to deal
with some of the stuff that might not have an
easy fix. And I think that's clearly where the commissioner
dropped the ball.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
And I think also, you know, she to.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Your point saying just ignore it feels like someone who
maybe hasn't really seen what we're dealing with here. And
Kennedy Carter Diamondshield's Angel in particular, some sky players are
the ones sometimes this season who have faced the worst racist,
missogest and homophobic comments. Do you have examples off the
top of your head, or can you provide a sense
of really what these players are receiving so that people
(36:31):
don't think you're an athlete, like people are going to
just tell you had a bad game.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 4 (36:36):
Angel talked about this on her podcast. She had ai
pictures of her like created and sent out to her family,
like sexually.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Explicit pictures of her. This is this is a young.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
Woman like and I don't care how old you are.
I don't care woman or man like that is insane.
And then you have Diamond Dashields after this fall on Caitlin,
the messages she's got about everything from from her like
her her, the way she dresses, to just extremely extremely
(37:11):
wanting exactly wanting right, I'm thank you for bringing that up,
like saying about her illness that threatened her life, wishing
that it did the job, like these are things that
again happen to your point earlier, based on fans response
(37:31):
to their their avatar, which they thought represented this thing
being threatened, it's not because anybody that's that's watching basketball,
that loves sports, that loves competition, is not looking at.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
The foul diamond committed and thinking now I got to go.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
Make a threat against her life or say something, say
something like that like that's that's not normal fan behavior.
That's not normal behavior, period. And so this is not
something any athlete should go through. It doesn't matter how
much money you make, it doesn't matter what your platform is, like,
these are not appropriate responses to anything anything like.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Yeah, it just is.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
It's a big it's a big problem to fix, and
it's a big culture to try to continue to put,
you know, move in the direction that's going to be
healthy for the players and fans. But I imagine that
Terry Jackson and THEWNBPA and the players are going to
have their sites set on some more intentional action as
a result of Kathy's interview and in the off season
(38:44):
ahead of next year, we are so past our time.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
I have to do a very quick speed round.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Okay, super quick, Okay. Camilla Cardoso was injured, but now
she's had about thirty games, quieter year than expected.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
What have you seen from her?
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Not a quieter yere then expected.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
I think because of her second half of the season
right now, this is the player she's going to be.
If she improves her footwork and continues to lean on
that speed of hers she's going to be. I would
go as far as saying the most dominant big in
this league.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Awesome. Can't wait for that.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Marina may Breath the latest in a long line of
Chicago players who choose to leave multiple MVPs Sylvia fouls
Elena Delada on Candice Park or Colia Kopper and finals
MVP for that one. All different players, maybe different motivations,
But is there a through line here? What is keeping
people from not wanting to stick around in Chicago?
Speaker 4 (39:34):
The through line is the reputation that this franchise has,
and that comes from ownership and lack of investment for years.
And while they're not investing, other franchises were and so
that created this division between the haves and the have nots,
and for a long time, the sky fell in the
latter category. And so that's the through line. It's like
(39:56):
people players are no longer remaining quiet about what's on,
comfortable with what franchisees. So if you are not a franchise,
that's stepping up to meet the excellence of the players
that you you how that exists under in your franchise,
like you're going to lose them?
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
I mean you look at the facilities for the Aces
and the Mercury and stuff, and you're like, good thing,
the Sky at least announced one of them is coming.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
We'll see how long we.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Wait a fort Okay, Sky are trying to hang on
to the eighth and final spot.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
If they keep it.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
How ugly could it get against the top seed Liberty
in the first round.
Speaker 4 (40:35):
All I'm going to say is, look at what happened
last year against the Aces. They made the A seed
and they got swept right like that.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Finally, last and most important question, you've gotten to look
at this new Sky mascot, Sky the Lioness.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Do we have something to work with here?
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Is this a little l E two point oho situation
or the very least not a Sky Guy two point
oh situation.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
I think good on them getting rid of Sky Guy.
But Sky the Lioness.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
Is very clearly a replica of Ellie. And what I've
learned in this industry is if you try to replicate anybody,
you're already behind. Like you got to be yourself. You
got to show up and do you. You cannot replicate
and be successful.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
We'll give Sky some time.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
I wanted to be more like Chicago footwork and Chicago
style than just being.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
You know, the line who wishes she was an elephant?
That's a great title for the show. The line you
wish That's a good children's book. Maybe I'll write it
about absolutely.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
To write that.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Thank you so much for having a heated and honest
conversation about these tough topics. We love following your coverage
and keep it up.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
Thanks for having me, Sarah.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
We got to take another break when we come back.
Ridiculous rivalries and we're.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Not superstitious, just a little stitious. Welcome back, my little slices.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
It is indeed Friday the thirteenth, So let's shout out
a couple of the greatest number thirteen jersey wearers of
all time, shall we? We gotta start with Alex Morgan,
our favorite baby horse. She just retired with two World Cups,
an Olympic gold medal, a Champions League title, and an
unforgettable legacy in the fight for rights inequality. That is
one proud number thirteen, where meantime, fellow footy star Christine
(42:20):
Lilly another epic number thirteen. She holds the all time
US women's national team appearances record with three hundred and
fifty four caps, and had an incredible twenty one year
career playing in five World Cups, including wins in ninety
one and ninety nine. Finally, Hooper and Minnesota native Lindsay
Whalen led the Minnesota Gophers to their only Final Four
in two thousand and four, and then went on to
win four WNBA titles with the Minnesota Links. Triska decaphobia,
(42:44):
no chance, nothing scary about those thirteens, unless, of course,
you were on the other team. We love that you're listening,
but we want to get you in the game every
day too. So here's our good game play of the day. Okay,
So yesterday I was filling out a form for this
new Globals Sport's fellowship I'm joining, and one of the
questions was biggest rivalry. Now, remember, I'm trying to think
(43:05):
beyond America centric stuff. This is a global thing. So
I'm past the Celtics, Lakers, Bears, Packers, even USA Canada
women's hockey.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
What is the true decades long beef that never disappoints.
So I went with Russia versus the World Anti Doping Agency.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
The whole always slaps, and it got me thinking, what
are some other ridiculous rivalries in sport?
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Let me give you a couple examples.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
The Chicago Sky versus their own practice facility. Lynn Williams
versus her Olympic gold medal which is now a coaster.
Asia Wilson versus the Aces social team that's always bringing
up Bam and Diana Tarasi versus that door.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
You remember that from a previous episode. You know, classic rivalries.
We want some more. Send us some ridiculous rivalries.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Sarah Spain on Twitter Spain two three two three on
instant or you can hit us up on email. Good
game at wondermedianetwork dot com or leave us a voicemail
at eight seven two two oh four fifty seventy and
don't forget to subscribe rate and review slices. Do it
to start your weekend. It's real easy. Watch Taylor Swift
endorsing Kamala Harris and encouraging voters to register, rating thirteen
(44:11):
out of five stars. It's her lucky number after all, review.
According to CNN reporter Betsy Klein, after Taylor endorsed Kamala
Harris and shared a link to vote dot gov following
the debate, vote dot gov saw five hundred and eighty
five percent spike between nine pm and midnight, and in
the twenty four hours after Taylor's endorsement, the site saw
four hundred and five nine hundred and ninety nine people
(44:33):
referred directly from her Instagram for context. The week prior,
the site had about thirty thousand people per day.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Look what you made us do? Taylor.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Happy Friday the thirteenth to our favorite childless cat lady.
Now it's your turn, rate and review. Have a great weekend.
Orange Slices Talk to you Monday. Good Game, Asia, Good game, Annie,
Thank you. The smallest man who ever lived. Good Game
with Sarah Spain is an iheartwomen's sports production in partnership
with Deep Blue sk Sports and Entertainment. You can find
us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
(45:04):
get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers
are Alex Azzi and Misha Jones. Our executive producers are
Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our
editors are Jenny Kaplan, Emily Rudder, Brittany Martinez and Grace Lynch.
Production assistants from Lucy Jones and I'm Your Host Sarah
Spain
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're adding
an apostropheed to every word to celebrate Asia Wilson.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
On today's show, we'll be.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Talking to Chicago Sky reporter Annie Costable at the Chicago
Sun Times about Angel Reese's rookie season, the backlash to
WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert's comments, and adjusting to a new
normal in WNBA coverage. Plus we'll celebrate some sly social posts,
bronze clocks, and ridiculous rivalries. It's all coming up right
after this Happy Friday the thirteenth slices.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Here's what you need to know today.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
The scariest person in sports continues to be an absolute killer,
and that's Asia Wilson. Wilson had twenty seven points and
twelve rebounds to lead the Las Vegas Aces to an
eighty six to seventy five win over the Indiana Fever
on Wednesday night, shortly after we finished recording our episode.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Wilson's pull up.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Jumper with twenty six seconds left in the first half
brought it to nine hundred and forty one points this year,
breaking the WNB record for most points in a season.
Jewell Lloyd held the previous record thanks to her nine
hundred and thirty nine points last season. Wilson finished the
night with the season total of nine hundred and fifty six,
and the Aces still have four more games remaining in
the regular season. This is just the second WNBA season
(01:15):
to feature forty regular season games. The w's first season
was just twenty eight games long, and for the majority
of the league's history, the season totaled thirty four games,
so Asia will get a couple extra games.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
All that said, though she still.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Currently tops the charts when it comes to most points
per game in w history. She's averaging twenty seven point
three so far this season, two more than the current
record holder, Diana Tarassi, who averaged twenty five point.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Two per game back in two thousand and six.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Also, we have to shout out the Aces social team
for the best possible response to Wilson's record breaking moment.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
They tweeted out, Bam, there it is.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Asia Wilson has the single greatest scoring season in WNBA history.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
You guys, hear that, hear that, Bam.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
And bam Outebaio him self even chimed in writing unanimous,
as in you apostrophe nanimous cute apostre bam at it again.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
We love those two.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
More WNBA some scary hours for WNBA fans, as there's
just one week left in the regular season and the
battle for playoff spots and home court advantage will come
down to the wire. Looking ahead to tonight, the good
news is there are five WNBA games on the schedule.
The bad news is four of the five have the
same exact start time, seven thirty pm Eastern, So get
(02:30):
out your laptop and your phone and that old phone
you still have line around because it's a multi screen
kind of night. As a reminder, we got three teams,
the Chicago Sky, Atlanta Dream, and the Washington Mystics, all
fighting for the eighth and final playoff spot, and each
of those teams has four games left, and two of
the final four for the Mystics and Dream are against
each other.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
This is going to get spicy' all.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
The Mystics had a big win over the Sky on Wednesday,
they travel to Atlanta tonight. Meanwhile, the Minnesota Links play
host to the Chicago Sky. Will link to the full
schedule in our show notes. Final WNBA note before we
move on. On Wednesday, both the WNBA and the Las
Vegas Aces filed motions to dismiss the Sparks Deerica Hamby's
federal lawsuit. According to reporter Calli Lawson Freeman of the
(03:11):
Las Vegas Review Journal, the WNBA's lawyers argue that Hamby's
case should be dismissed because Hamby's claim under the Civil
Rights Act quote fail in their entirety because Hamby does
not plausibly allege that the WNBA quote unquote employed her.
We'll link to Kelly's story in the show notes. To
soccer in the NWSL, there are seven match days left
(03:31):
in the NWSL regular season. If the postseason started today,
the Orlando Pride would be the top seeded team in
the league, while the Chicago Red Stars would be the
eighth and final team to make the postseason. But there's
plenty of time for those standings to get shaken up.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Tonight, We're especially excited.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
For the matchup between the aforementioned top of the table
Pride and the third place Casey Current. That's an eight
pm Eastern kickoff in Orlando, and we'll link to the
full NWSL schedule in our show notes. Also, can we
spend just a sec here talking about what it must
be like to be a Washer Spirit fan.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
This team has reached such high.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Highs and also low lows over the last couple of seasons,
winning the twenty twenty one NWSL title, amit a tumultuous
season and calls for ownership change, and then they didn't
qualify for.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
The playoffs the last two seasons.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Now they got Magic Johnson on the sideline and they've
got it, and by it, I mean mostly the incredible
Trinity Rodman. Last weekend, she notched her twentieth career assist,
making her the youngest player in NWSL history to accomplish
that feat.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
By nearly three years.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
And she had Chicago skyrookie Camilla Cardoso rocking her jersey
before the game the other night.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
In fact, that Rodman jersey has been.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Spotted all sorts of places lately, US Open everywhere.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
It's like I said, she's it.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
The Spirit is currently second in the standings, just six
points behind Orlando to golf, the twenty twenty four Solheim
Cup tease off today in Gainesville, Virginia.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Quick refresher for you.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Okay, So, the Solheim Cup is a biennial women's golf
tournament contested between the US and Europe.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
The events started in nineteen ninety. This year's the nineteenth
edition of the tournament.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Europe enters this Year'storney as the three time defending champions,
but the US leads the overall series all time ten
seven in one.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Now that one.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Tie it actually happened in the most recent edition of
the tournament. The twenty twenty three Solheim Cup ended in
a fourteen to fourteen tie, but since Europe was the
most recent champion, they got to keep possession of the trophy. Now,
if you're confused about marking it a tie but counting
it as a win, join the club. We're gonna have
a golf guest on next week to explain that and
a whole lot more. Meantime, you can watch the Solheim
Cup live on NBC Peacock and the Golf Channel.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
To gymnastics.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
After Jordan Chiles was stripped of her Olympic floor bronze
medal in August, you might recall that Flavor Flave promised
to make her a custom bronze clock, writing on Twitter
quote that's something no one else has. While on Wednesday
night at the VMAs, he made good on that promise,
presenting Jordan with her own custom bronze clock medal. And
we also have to shout out Flay for making the
(05:52):
presentation while wearing a water polo cap on stage and
shouting out his role as official hype man of the
US women's national water polo team.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
That man is always on the clock. We're going to
take a break.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
When we come back, we'll talk Angel Reese, unhinged fans,
and the commissions stumble with Annie Constable.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Joining us now.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
She writes about the WNBA, predominantly the Chicago sky for
the Chicago Sun Times. She thinks there should be tunnel
fit picks for journals. She's taller than I remember every
single time I see her, and for the last time, people,
she doesn't write the headlines.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
For her stories. Okay, it's Annie Constable.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Annie, what's up, Sarah? Thank you for having me.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Thank you for that introduction too, because I still firmly
believe journalists should have tunnel fit pick only somebody I'm
waiting for my opportunity, Like I want to be on
league fits so bad.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, because you're like a thrift queen love super unique style.
There are people who shall not be named who should
not have tunnel fits and they appreciate the job because
they don't and aren't required to have to worry about
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
So my choice, my choice.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Yes, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
You've been covering the Sky for a few years now,
and this year you've really got a front row seat
to rookie sensation Angel Reese's debut season. I'd love to
start just like big picture there because obviously the Sky
won the whole thing a couple of years ago, Candice
Parker was in town. It became a thing in a
way it hadn't been before. But I still think there's
a difference pre Angel to post Angel.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Can you kind of describe how this year has compared
to previously.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
Yeah, I love this question because there is a very
distinct difference and one of my favorite ways to describe
that difference, and I'm actually working on a story that
that'll be an off season story that kind of gets
into this, but is the difference can best be described
by this interview that I actually did with Dwayne Wade
and Gabrielle Union and we were it was before I
(07:50):
think maybe their first home game that I caught up
with them and I, you know, ran over a court
side where they were sitting and I wanted their perspective
on this exact thing. I was like, what, you know, like,
can you put into words what's going on with this team?
And in my mind, having covered the NBA as well,
my my comparison was the Golden State Warriors. And when
(08:14):
whenever the Golden State Warriors traveled to an away game
anywhere they go, it's like it's like the Beatles are
in town, Fans flock to to see them. They crowd
the tunnel, you know, when when the players take the
core at pregame, it's it's this reaction that is so
much bigger than just a game. And so that was
(08:36):
was what I was seeing, you know, through the first
few games of the season, and I'm like, how do
how do other players? How do other professionals in this business?
How do how does someone like like Duwayne Wade perceive this?
And the funniest thing that Gabrielle said to me was,
you know, you mentioned the Warriors, but I'm gonna mention
the Heatles. And you know, obviously I was talking about
(08:59):
Dayne Wade and Lebron James and Chris Bosh and I
think that's the best way to describe, you know, that
aspect of Angel's impact and that the sky are bigger
than just a basketball team.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
And when you have a team that's not doing.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
Well, you know, in terms of wins and losses, this
this stuff matters. And so I think that's the impact
is that this team. People care about this team not
just because of what's what's happening on the court. They
they want to know about Angel's life off the court.
They want to know, you know, where these players are shopping,
what they're doing in their free time. They want to
(09:36):
know about them as humans. And I think that's the
way that sports as we know it like grow, is
what people care about the teams beyond just the game
as we wins.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
How is Angel's first year compared to your expectations coming in?
There were a lot of questions about how she would
transition to the pro style game.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
I think everyone I spoke to before the draft was
very confident in how her rebus bounding was going to
translate to the game, like how she was going to
have this instant impact. I know, you know, I don't
even like to call them fans, but we'll call them
like observers or opinionated. I don't know, people you know
(10:14):
questioned her efficiency and all these other aspects of her game.
But the professionals I talked to, the GMS, I talked to,
the coaches I talked to, they all were talking about
how she undoubtedly would translate to the W because of
her rebounding and because of her impact that comes from
these hustle plays she makes and the way she approaches
(10:36):
the game and her mental approach to the game. So
to be honest, I think the biggest surprise to me
was not that she's having an impact, but just how
significant her impact actually is. Like for a number seven
pick to be in the conversation for Rookie of the Year,
not even to be in the conversation, but for the
(10:58):
entire first half the half of the season, really be
like leading that conversation in many people's minds. That's what
not even surprised me, but just stood out to me
about how impactful she's actually been.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yeah, and you have to wonder if there are other
teams who are thinking, now, we should have grabbed her
before that number seven pick, or we should have worked
or traded up to try to get her because.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
She's had that impact.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
I do want to get back to something you said though,
because I am as a basketball watcher, as a sky fan,
and as someone who played basketball, I am sort of
intrigued by that conversation around efficiency versus efficacy. She is
undeniable in her efficacy. You look at the number she
puts up, the effect she has on the game, the
(11:43):
impact she's had on this team.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
But she does at times have poor efficiency.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Now it is exaggerated by those who have a bone
to pick in the Caitlin versus Angel thing. They'll say
she wouldn't have any rebounds if she weren't rebounding her
own offensive missus, which, by the way, multiple people have
actually done the work to watch and been able to
say she would still be leading the league in offensive
rebounds even if she didn't get a single one of
her own misses.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
So let's put that out there that that is a lie.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
And still she obviously has a lot of work to
do on other parts of her game. Where do you
see her being able to improve so that she is
a more multifaceted a threat as opposed to just doing
that work kind of in the pain.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
So this is another question I love and just a
conversation I love because again, you know this like you
have covered professional sports. Professional athletes are not afraid to
talk about ways in which they need to improve. And
Angel is a professional, like she shows up every day
(12:40):
to work ready to improve at her job, which is
playing basketball. And so one of those aspects that needs improvement,
like you mentioned, is her efficiency, and she doesn't shy
away from that, like she talks actively about that. And
so I think when specifically talking about her efficiency, another
ass aspect of improving that that she's talked about is
(13:02):
is just.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Slowing down the game.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Like something advice she's gotten from veterans is is you
need to slow down when you're when you're rushing through
these shots, when you're rushing your your footwork, all of
these aspects of what it is to be a four
or five in the w n B A, you end
up kind of like we've seen her, uh, failing to execute.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
These very very easy shots.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
That that again, with with practice and with you know,
dedicated practice, that's going to be an aspect of her
game that she's going to be able to improve. And
and then the other thing that I just love to
talk about when it comes to her efficiency and the
whole like, oh, her getting her own rebounds is like, wait,
do people want her not to try and get offensive?
(13:51):
Like would that make everybody feel better if she wasn't
trying to get the pookback?
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Like I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
It speaks to those gms and coaches were talking about
before she was drafted, and that her hustle and the
way she plays the game, that's not something that can
be taught. That's an intangible And when you hear players
talk about these intangible qualities or coaches talk about these
intangible qualities, those matter just as much as the aspects
(14:20):
of your game like efficiency. And so for Angel, I
think watching what she does this offseason, watching how she improves,
is going to be really exciting because she's focused on that.
And then just to add like a quick note too,
it's like she wants to expand her shot range.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
She said in her.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Post, you know when she broke the news about her
season ending injury, is like, oh, it's hysterical.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
My last shot of my rookie season was a three.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
It's like that speaks to again ways in what she
wants to improve her game. She wants to be a
traditional stretch for and you know all the skeptics, let
them say what they want to say, we'll see what
she does next year.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, and if you're ever at the games, I do
think it's wild how she has already achieved that Rodman
effect of the fans knowing the work she's putting into
the rebounds and going crazy when she gets a good one.
That's not normal like maybe a crazy physical place someone
will notice, but for the most part, people pull down
rebounds and keep it moving. When Angel gets a rebound
at a sky game at home, the crowd goes wild.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
It's really cool to see. I mentioned the headlines off
the top, and I want to talk about that.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Can you start by explaining to folks how newspapers work
and why it's been an issue for you this year
that you don't write your own headlines?
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Yeah, So, first off, I think when it comes to
media literacy, conversations like this are so important because it's
not going to be clearly communicated on social media.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
And I think.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
Also like respect needs to be given to the people
who pioneered coverage of this league and other women's sports leagues,
and those were blogs, those were fans, like those were
the people that were showing up historic to cover these leagues.
So now that traditional media is coming in. It's it's like,
(16:06):
I will never push back on people's response to our coverage,
whether it's good or bad, because it's just part of
it's part of the industry.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
So when it comes to my.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Job specifically, obviously, being a beat writer means you're there
every day. You're there at practice, you're there at shoot arounds,
you're there on the road, You're there every single day.
And when it comes to game day coverage, for me specifically,
I'm writing two stories on deadline, and so the way
that works is like I'm filing a notebook story, which
(16:39):
is sometimes you know, sometimes like a big picture story,
maybe a league wide story, something that you don't have
the time to expand upon right in that moment, but
you're you're going to get to it later, and little
notes that you want people to know about.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
I have to file that by halftime.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
You know, our editors are editing that getting it into
the print copy. That's happening at halftime. My final game
deadline is nine forty five for anybody that wants to
know specific like, I have to get that story in
by nine forty five in order for it to make
the print copy. And so what comes with that is
(17:16):
obviously like I'm doing my job and there's someone else
that's doing an entirely different job, which is editing my copy.
There's someone else who again is is laying out the paper,
pulling a picture to use on the back page, coming
up with the copy that's going on the back page.
Everything from again the headline to that sub headline you're seeing,
(17:36):
and that's something that's that's that's not in my job title,
that's not in my list of duties. And so often
I'm honestly ninety percent of the time, i would say
ninety nine percent of the time I'm seeing the back
page if it is my story at the same time
as everybody else. And so there's that's that's the reality
(17:59):
of our business. Because again, you couldn't get a print
coffee out if if one person was tasked with doing
all of that. So for starters, you know, that's how
it goes. That's how that's how my job goes.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, and then there was a time this season in particular,
that you sent out a story that was, you know,
full of a bunch of different facts and commentary and
thoughts on the game at an included commentary on Diamond
Deshields and her foul on Caitlin Clark, and the headline
and the photo were maybe not what you would have chosen.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
No exactly, And I think I work for an outlet,
and I'm so thankful that I want. I work for
an outlet that has supported me and this coverage that
sends me on the road, that pays me a full
time salary to show up every day to cover the WNBA.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
I know how few jobs there are that allow a.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Person to do that, and so I am so thankful
for this position. I'm in. Also to that note, I'm
thankful that I work for editors who encourage me to
cover women the same way that I cover men, and
that's with a critical lens when necessary. That's writing columns
when necessary. That's also writing, you know, features that maybe
(19:17):
aren't just critical when necessary. It's everything right combined into one.
They're allowing me to do that, and they're encouraging me
to do that. They're encouraging me to be skeptical, they're
encouraging me again to go hard when necessary. And so
for this game specifically, there were two aspects that to
me were front and center, and that was the fever
(19:39):
in the Sky at the beginning of the year were
very much described as being in similar positions by myself.
Included like, these are two franchises that are rebuilding, and
while the Fever have openly admitted to their rebuild, the
Sky even though they don't want to say it, are
still rebuilding, and so these are two franchises that are
on similar trajectories. Well, we know, coming back from the
(20:02):
Olympic break, the Fever went left and the Sky went right,
and so that was an aspect of the story that
needed to be talked about, is how the Fever are
taking off in the Sky are falling right now. The
other aspect of it, part of the Sky falling is
the fact that in these late game scenarios which we
(20:22):
saw during this losing streak, they've lacked composure. They've openly
talked about players, Spoon, everybody within this organization has openly
in interviews, whether it's pregame, whether it's postgame, whether it's
me on the road talking to them, have not shied
away from the fact that in these moments they've lacked composure.
(20:45):
So me knowing that and having that context, when Diamond
committed that flagrant fall, it wasn't about it being a
personal attack on Caitlin. I love basketball, Okay, I'm not
going to look at it in that way.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
It was not a personal attack on Caitlin. It never
has been.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
But this fall while the Sky are down almost thirty,
they were down twenty seven points at that point in
the game. To commit that flagrant foul in garbage minutes
was a reflection of the context I was trying to
bring to the game.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
And absolutely the.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
Sky have lacked composure here. You have a veteran player
committing a flagrant fall, whoever it was on. That's important
context to describe where this team is at, absolutely in.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
The bigger picture.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
And so that was the story, and that was part
of the story, and as a journalist, that's my job
to again describe the story and bring the context to it.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
But the headline and the photo ended up making it
feel like the story was about the Sky having it
out for Caitlin, this being Kennedy Carter flagrant number two remix,
and fans were coming after you for that being the
focus instead of the rest of the game. There's been
this push and pull in Chicago's newspapers and the world
(22:09):
of this WNBA season between experts and others, And there
was a particularly unpalatable op ed from the Chicago Tribune
editorial board early in the season talking about that Kennedy
Carter and News making flagrant foul against Clark. They wrote, quote,
outside of a sporting contest, it would have been seen
as assault, which, by the way, is something that could
be said of like half of the things that happened
on a field to record, Like most of the things
we need each other in sports are agreed upon that
(22:31):
we can do and would be assault if we did
them to a stranger.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
That's beside the point.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
The point is more that this divide between the game
knowers and others has felt especially wide this season. How
has it felt to you as a journalist and have
you had to change your job at all to appease
or understanding that there are a lot more people reading
and listing that don't know shit about shit?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
You know.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
I think my approach not even to my job in
this respect, but like life in general, is when you're
getting that much feedback, like something is that loud, you
have to look inward and you have to take a
step back and be like, Okay, if this is the reaction,
if the reaction is this strong.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
My reaction can't be oh, you all don't know.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
The journalism business, Like I'm gonna ignore you, you know
what I'm saying. Like it's important, like as humans, in
any relationship, whether it's work, whether it's like friendship, whether
it's like with a loved one, your partner, it's important
that when you're getting feedback, your reaction is not oh,
I did nothing wrong, like we did nothing wrong, you
(23:37):
know what I'm saying. So when it comes to the
feedback as hard like as much as it because girl,
it hurts, it hurts so much.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
And so for me, it's more so.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
Staying focused and locked in on executing your job in
a in a healthy, like successful manner. And I've always
been very very intentional with like my word choice, and
very very you know, just strategic, you know, and thoughtful
(24:15):
to more so just kind of show up harder, like
show up more consistent, show up and really continue to
do your job and and and stand behind the job
that you do.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
You know, I don't help, no, I mean, first of all,
it's great advice. One of my favorite, like recent internet
memes is normalize getting more information and changing your mind
like that is just an approach to life we shall have.
But to what you said, it's really smart like to
take the criticism and first ask, okay, let me sit
with myself and see where this supplies, where it's accurate,
what I can do differently, how they're right, and then
(24:49):
also let me put into context to saying it, what
their knowledge is of the situation, the game, et cetera.
And how do I make it so that my work
helps educate them as I help pull them along to
catch up. Not let me tell you how stupid you are.
This is the emotion. Yes, you don't know what you're
talking about, and welcome, let me help you learn.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
So that's been a really tough job I think for
people in the W this season when it comes to
specifically Reese, Caitlin, Kennedy Carter, like those are especially for conversations.
I have found myself sometimes not posting things on social
media because I honestly don't want to deal with the
unhinged responses. I am sometimes posting and I'm very strategic,
and other times I'm like, I have stuff to say,
and you know what, I don't have time today. I
(25:32):
just don't have time for the mental load it's going
to take for some of these people to be in
the mentions. Maybe some of them will be right about
some things. Oh that's an interesting thought, and so many
of them it will feel.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Uneducated and uninformed.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
How have you handled that and how is it, if
at all, changed your coverage this year committed to previous
years in the W.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
You know, I gotta be honest, I and maybe someone
from the house I would have to speak to, like, Oh,
has Annie's coverage seemed to change? I feel like my
coverage has consistently gotten more critical in a healthy way.
(26:16):
Like I think about my first year covering the Sky
and I was like, I was so fresh, and you know,
they're winning a title. And there were times that year
when I would think, because again I go back to
I want to cover women's sports the same way I
cover mens, Like, I don't want to be afraid of
asking hard questions. I don't want to coddle and write
(26:38):
these puff pieces.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
And so going back.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
To that twenty twenty one year, I remember thinking, oh,
my god, am I being too soft? Like?
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Is am I going too easy?
Speaker 4 (26:46):
But again, it's easy to go easy when you're winning
a title, But mentally it's entirely impacted the way I
approach social media, the way that I share stories. Like
there's been times this year, Sarah where I have not
even like shared stories because i've I've I just mentally
(27:10):
was not like ready for to go then go on
social media and get those responses.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
So that's what's changed.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
And I think that just takes you know, having thicked
skin and continuing to grow in the industry and knowing like, again,
you know what you're doing, and it's okay to share
your stories and it's okay for people to disagree, yeah,
with the way you cover teams.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
And also to your point, there was a plague of
women's sports coverage that felt necessary at the time that
was a bit cheerleadery because the well was so poisoned
already that if the majority of people are shit talking,
the reporters almost need to elevate in a way that
feels too soft. We're not there anymore, and the necessary
step to keep growing the game is now to offer
the same critical eye so that there are things to debate.
(27:57):
There are players to criticize when they're not playing well,
there coaches to say should be fired. All of that
is fair game in sports. It felt wrong or difficult
to do before. Now it should be the norm, and
you're doing a great job of that. So it's easier
said than done. But keep at it and don't don't
let the haters get you down. Speaking of haters, Commissioner
Kathy Engelbert has a few right now. She missed the
(28:18):
mark on her CNBC interview the other night when asked
about the uptick in racist and homophobic commentary from fans
and the dark side to the growing rivalry and the
attention on Clark and Reese. How big of a disconnect
do you think there is between the league's leadership and
the league's players, Because it has felt like such a beautiful,
collaborative and collective group. But now I'm starting to wonder
(28:38):
how much it's just been the players, almost in spite
of some leadership that's maybe not as connected as we imagined.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
You know, I think this is a really unfortunate reality
for women's sports in general and for women in general.
Like I might get too big picture here, but girl,
I know you're gonna feel this. How often have we
(29:05):
had to fight and bark and be like listen to me,
I Like, this is what we need to be doing
blah blah blah, all to be told, to be ignored,
to be talked over, to be dismissed.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
But then the second it looks good. The second the
second what we were barking about picks up. It's like,
oh yeah, yeah, no, we stand on that, like yeah,
we're proud of that, Like we're proud of Yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
I love this. It's like for the for these W players, go,
let's go back to the beginning. I mean, talk about
the beginning of the W, when it was pushed on
players to to show up a certain way in order
to attract a certain fan base. And then it took
players like I think about Cappy Pondexter and her looks
(29:53):
like Ty Young too. It's like, these are players who
started showing up in these authentic ways and making like
authentic ticity the norm. And so then that became the
w's identity of like, oh, if you're an authentic person
who no matter who you are or how, you show
up like, we're the league for you.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
And it's like, well, there was a time when that
wasn't the case.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
And so now when I think about this specific instance,
and I talked to Brianna Turner about this it wasn't this,
although this is heightened and there's no doubt about that.
Although what Angel Race is experiencing is completely, you know,
the one end of the stick, the absolute worst type
(30:40):
of treatment that anybody should experience. Players have been talking
about this hostility and this racism and this misogyny and
homophobia on social media for a long time, like Bree
talked about, you know, it started the second I got drafted,
and so I think players have been vocalizing how uncomfortable
(31:03):
social media is and and it's now become this thing
where it's getting conflated with rivalry, and that's not what
should be happening here, you know, Like that's not where
this conversation should be going. It's like, oh yeah, it's
okay for these comments. It's it comes with it comes
(31:25):
with the industry. Just ignore it, you know, just ignore it.
It's like, oh yeah, really solid advice. I never thought
we never thought of that, No one ever thought of Like,
but what.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
I guess, like, what what is I mean?
Speaker 1 (31:38):
As someone who did a viral PSA about the terrible
treatment that women, particularly my case, women's sports reporters, was
the focus of ours get but it sort of spread
because it was universal. There aren't a lot of easy
answers right now, There aren't a lot of solutions. But
it feels like this league in the past has taken
on big problems and found collact aborative and collective ways
(32:01):
to address them. It almost feels like they drop the
ball on this one. Whether that's the league office or
the coaches or the players, they just didn't get out
ahead of it in a way that felt like maybe
they could have known that the ball was rolling down
the hills starting with March madness. Do you think that
we will now see as a result of Engelbert's interview
some sort of action or effort from the league or
(32:23):
players to figure out how to at the very least
be a unified front in opposition to some of what
we're seeing. So it doesn't feel like right now where
it does feel like you can pit players or teams
against each other instead of believing that they're all on
the same side of this.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
Yeah, I think absolutely, because I think anytime the players
come together on or collectively are like, no, that's not
what we stand for, we don't.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
We disagree hard, there's always.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
A response that's on the other side, and so I
don't know what that response will be. I don't know
what the change will be, but I've from my history
of covering this league, there's always been a moment of
disagreement and then a response to it and response for it. Yeah,
and so I think that these are maybe conversations that
(33:13):
are going to happen in the off season. These are
conversations between the WMVPA.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
And the league.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
And I think, you know, for Kathy, it's like, this
was just a very simple moment for you to just
merely denounce the racism and bigotry and homophobia, and you
just you didn't do that, and so that was that
was your mistake, and now you have to carry it.
And even though you might not have the answer for
(33:39):
what should be going on on social media or how
to prevent players from experiencing it, that's not what players.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Needed from you. They just needed you to have their back.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Well, and she almost fostered it by trying to spin
it into a business opportunity. Rivalries are great for us,
And it's like, wait, wait, wait, are you saying that
what's happening to these players is great for the league,
because not only is it not yes attention to rivalries
is great, but this kind of vibe around the league
I think can ultimately be damaging. You're going to create
narratives for the league, which I think is one of
(34:10):
the biggest problems this season has had is we're assigning political, social, racial,
homophobic ideas to people before knowing anything about how they
actually feel, and then we're using those to fuel culture wars.
We're using them as avatars for our own battles. Can
we nip that in the bud by at least saying
whatever you're saying, Like, look at Caitlyn Clark liking a
(34:33):
Taylor Swift post about ash and Kamala and voting her
fan base now coming in and saying.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
I'm not watching you anymore. Okay, what were you watching
her for? Were you watching it for basketball?
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Or was she an avatar of a white girl disrupted
predominantly black space and you enjoyed that and now you
don't anymore?
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Right?
Speaker 4 (34:50):
I think what's interesting about it as we're seeing kind
of what this Caitlyn Clark Taylor Swift moment is lunatic
people are going to still be lunatics even after you
make your statement, after you try to bring some sense
to them, and so it's like what can the w
do where where they make things clear, but we also
(35:15):
have to, I don't know, get comfortable with like I
don't know, they're always going to be lunatics, but intact
from what you can protect from.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
And that's what i'm That's what I mean is like there,
it's the same in men's sports, and the bigger and
more popular you get, the more you have of all
of it, the good and the bad, and so you
have to just kind of sift away the fringe and
say this is unreachable. But within the WNBA family of reporters, fans, diehards,
there is still a conflict that didn't exist before that's
(35:50):
a result of all of this added noise, and can
you try to get more on the same page with
moving forward that they feel supported by their commissioner, supported
by their league as they continue to have to deal
with some of the stuff that might not have an
easy fix. And I think that's clearly where the commissioner
dropped the ball.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
And I think also, you know, she to.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Your point saying just ignore it feels like someone who
maybe hasn't really seen what we're dealing with here. And
Kennedy Carter Diamondshield's Angel in particular, some sky players are
the ones sometimes this season who have faced the worst racist,
missogest and homophobic comments. Do you have examples off the
top of your head, or can you provide a sense
of really what these players are receiving so that people
(36:31):
don't think you're an athlete, like people are going to
just tell you had a bad game.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 4 (36:36):
Angel talked about this on her podcast. She had ai
pictures of her like created and sent out to her family,
like sexually.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Explicit pictures of her. This is this is a young.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
Woman like and I don't care how old you are.
I don't care woman or man like that is insane.
And then you have Diamond Dashields after this fall on Caitlin,
the messages she's got about everything from from her like
her her, the way she dresses, to just extremely extremely
(37:11):
wanting exactly wanting right, I'm thank you for bringing that up,
like saying about her illness that threatened her life, wishing
that it did the job, like these are things that
again happen to your point earlier, based on fans response
(37:31):
to their their avatar, which they thought represented this thing
being threatened, it's not because anybody that's that's watching basketball,
that loves sports, that loves competition, is not looking at.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
The foul diamond committed and thinking now I got to go.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
Make a threat against her life or say something, say
something like that like that's that's not normal fan behavior.
That's not normal behavior, period. And so this is not
something any athlete should go through. It doesn't matter how
much money you make, it doesn't matter what your platform is, like,
these are not appropriate responses to anything anything like.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Yeah, it just is.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
It's a big it's a big problem to fix, and
it's a big culture to try to continue to put,
you know, move in the direction that's going to be
healthy for the players and fans. But I imagine that
Terry Jackson and THEWNBPA and the players are going to
have their sites set on some more intentional action as
a result of Kathy's interview and in the off season
(38:44):
ahead of next year, we are so past our time.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
I have to do a very quick speed round.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Okay, super quick, Okay. Camilla Cardoso was injured, but now
she's had about thirty games, quieter year than expected.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
What have you seen from her?
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Not a quieter yere then expected.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
I think because of her second half of the season
right now, this is the player she's going to be.
If she improves her footwork and continues to lean on
that speed of hers she's going to be. I would
go as far as saying the most dominant big in
this league.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Awesome. Can't wait for that.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Marina may Breath the latest in a long line of
Chicago players who choose to leave multiple MVPs Sylvia fouls
Elena Delada on Candice Park or Colia Kopper and finals
MVP for that one. All different players, maybe different motivations,
But is there a through line here? What is keeping
people from not wanting to stick around in Chicago?
Speaker 4 (39:34):
The through line is the reputation that this franchise has,
and that comes from ownership and lack of investment for years.
And while they're not investing, other franchises were and so
that created this division between the haves and the have nots,
and for a long time, the sky fell in the
latter category. And so that's the through line. It's like
(39:56):
people players are no longer remaining quiet about what's on,
comfortable with what franchisees. So if you are not a franchise,
that's stepping up to meet the excellence of the players
that you you how that exists under in your franchise,
like you're going to lose them?
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
I mean you look at the facilities for the Aces
and the Mercury and stuff, and you're like, good thing,
the Sky at least announced one of them is coming.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
We'll see how long we.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Wait a fort Okay, Sky are trying to hang on
to the eighth and final spot.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
If they keep it.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
How ugly could it get against the top seed Liberty
in the first round.
Speaker 4 (40:35):
All I'm going to say is, look at what happened
last year against the Aces. They made the A seed
and they got swept right like that.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Finally, last and most important question, you've gotten to look
at this new Sky mascot, Sky the Lioness.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Do we have something to work with here?
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Is this a little l E two point oho situation
or the very least not a Sky Guy two point
oh situation.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
I think good on them getting rid of Sky Guy.
But Sky the Lioness.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
Is very clearly a replica of Ellie. And what I've
learned in this industry is if you try to replicate anybody,
you're already behind. Like you got to be yourself. You
got to show up and do you. You cannot replicate
and be successful.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
We'll give Sky some time.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
I wanted to be more like Chicago footwork and Chicago
style than just being.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
You know, the line who wishes she was an elephant?
That's a great title for the show. The line you
wish That's a good children's book. Maybe I'll write it
about absolutely.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
To write that.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Thank you so much for having a heated and honest
conversation about these tough topics. We love following your coverage
and keep it up.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
Thanks for having me, Sarah.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
We got to take another break when we come back.
Ridiculous rivalries and we're.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Not superstitious, just a little stitious. Welcome back, my little slices.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
It is indeed Friday the thirteenth, So let's shout out
a couple of the greatest number thirteen jersey wearers of
all time, shall we? We gotta start with Alex Morgan,
our favorite baby horse. She just retired with two World Cups,
an Olympic gold medal, a Champions League title, and an
unforgettable legacy in the fight for rights inequality. That is
one proud number thirteen, where meantime, fellow footy star Christine
(42:20):
Lilly another epic number thirteen. She holds the all time
US women's national team appearances record with three hundred and
fifty four caps, and had an incredible twenty one year
career playing in five World Cups, including wins in ninety
one and ninety nine. Finally, Hooper and Minnesota native Lindsay
Whalen led the Minnesota Gophers to their only Final Four
in two thousand and four, and then went on to
win four WNBA titles with the Minnesota Links. Triska decaphobia,
(42:44):
no chance, nothing scary about those thirteens, unless, of course,
you were on the other team. We love that you're listening,
but we want to get you in the game every
day too. So here's our good game play of the day. Okay,
So yesterday I was filling out a form for this
new Globals Sport's fellowship I'm joining, and one of the
questions was biggest rivalry. Now, remember, I'm trying to think
(43:05):
beyond America centric stuff. This is a global thing. So
I'm past the Celtics, Lakers, Bears, Packers, even USA Canada
women's hockey.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
What is the true decades long beef that never disappoints.
So I went with Russia versus the World Anti Doping Agency.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
The whole always slaps, and it got me thinking, what
are some other ridiculous rivalries in sport?
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Let me give you a couple examples.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
The Chicago Sky versus their own practice facility. Lynn Williams
versus her Olympic gold medal which is now a coaster.
Asia Wilson versus the Aces social team that's always bringing
up Bam and Diana Tarasi versus that door.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
You remember that from a previous episode. You know, classic rivalries.
We want some more. Send us some ridiculous rivalries.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Sarah Spain on Twitter Spain two three two three on
instant or you can hit us up on email. Good
game at wondermedianetwork dot com or leave us a voicemail
at eight seven two two oh four fifty seventy and
don't forget to subscribe rate and review slices. Do it
to start your weekend. It's real easy. Watch Taylor Swift
endorsing Kamala Harris and encouraging voters to register, rating thirteen
(44:11):
out of five stars. It's her lucky number after all, review.
According to CNN reporter Betsy Klein, after Taylor endorsed Kamala
Harris and shared a link to vote dot gov following
the debate, vote dot gov saw five hundred and eighty
five percent spike between nine pm and midnight, and in
the twenty four hours after Taylor's endorsement, the site saw
four hundred and five nine hundred and ninety nine people
(44:33):
referred directly from her Instagram for context. The week prior,
the site had about thirty thousand people per day.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Look what you made us do? Taylor.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Happy Friday the thirteenth to our favorite childless cat lady.
Now it's your turn, rate and review. Have a great weekend.
Orange Slices Talk to you Monday. Good Game, Asia, Good game, Annie,
Thank you. The smallest man who ever lived. Good Game
with Sarah Spain is an iheartwomen's sports production in partnership
with Deep Blue sk Sports and Entertainment. You can find
us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
(45:04):
get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers
are Alex Azzi and Misha Jones. Our executive producers are
Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our
editors are Jenny Kaplan, Emily Rudder, Brittany Martinez and Grace Lynch.
Production assistants from Lucy Jones and I'm Your Host Sarah
Spain
Host
Sarah Spain
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