October 14, 2025 • 37 mins
Veteran WNBA player Alysha Clark joined Sarah for a live show at iHeart HQ last week as part of a larger WNBA Finals celebration. Hear them discuss Clark’s midseason trade request to leave the Seattle Storm, how she’s re-setting expectations for her final years in the league, mentoring the youth of the Washington Mystics, and the ongoing WNBA CBA negotiations. Plus, a lesson in sports discourse from a WNBA broadcaster, an NYU professor, and a bouncy castle.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're still
stuck on step one of grieving Niche's departure from the
show Denial. It's Tuesday, October fourteenth, and on today's show,
we'll be skipping the need to note and getting right
to my conversation with WNBA vet Alicia Clark. We sat
down at IHEARTHQ in New York City last Wednesday as
part of a larger WNBA Finals celebration. It was part
(00:21):
of a whirlwind forty eight hours of events in the
Big Apple for me, so keep an ear out for me.
Flubbin Alisha's name sleep deprivation is real, y'all. Anyway, we
had a great conversation. We talked about why she requested
a mid season trade from the Seattle Storm, her mentoring
the youth of the Washington Mystics, resetting expectations for her
final years in the league, and how she's had to
(00:41):
evolve with age. Great conversation. It's coming up right after this.
She's the WNBA's wiliest vet, and that's a really nice
way of saying she's the oldest.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Player in the league.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
She is old enough to have been drafted a team
that no longer exists the San Antonio Silver Stars, currently
on the Washington Mystics. She's also played for the Seattle Storm,
the Las Vegas Aces, and pro teams in Israel, Turkey, Poland,
and France. A three time WNBA Champion, Polish League Champion,
French League champion, she played her college ball at Belmont
(01:21):
and Middle Tennessee, leading the NCAA and scoring two years
in a row and becoming the only player male or
female ever to be Conference Player of the Year all
four years of college in two different conferences. Her cooking
reels are professh and her tunnel fits are so fresh
it's Alicia Clark. Come on, Alisha. I just said Alicia
(01:45):
because I said fresh, I was like profesh and so fresh, Alish,
that's not your name, Alisha Clark, come on down. So
proud of my rhyming for real though, with the tunnel fits,
because I went on a deep dive in that Instagram. Yeah,
that's a whole job right there finding those right.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
No, honestly shout out to my style as Kiara Logan.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
So it is a whole job. Yeah, she takes her down.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
That's all I have to do is show up and
play basketball.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Alicia, we were at dinner together like two years ago,
right before all of iHeart Women's Sports Network launched and
you were getting ready for your season. You were talking
about being a vet and all the prep that goes
into it.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
So I want to.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Talk about that quickly because you started this year in
Seattle in August. You get traded to the Mystics. Yeah,
how do you find that out? And what's your response?
Thirteen years in? Like, man, where am I going? When?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Honestly, it was kind of crazy.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
So I knew because I'm the one who requested the
trade and that was the first time ever in my
career and it's pretty nerve wracking, but a big thing
with sports just in general. It doesn't matter how talented
you are, it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Matter what you've done. It's all about fit.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
And you know, I went in and we as the
Storm and coaching staff, like we went into the season thinking,
you know one thing, like Okay, this is what it's
gonna be.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
This is you know how we view this going. And
in my mind I had all of this.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Oh, I'm going back to where I won my first
two championships. You know where I got my first you
know opportunity in this league, and I just had all
these thoughts and emotions and it just didn't pan out
that way. And so I had a really difficult decision
to make, honestly, and like the split, I'm like, you're
either gonna be okay with this and you know what's
what your role has been, what it's become, or you're
(03:33):
gonna make a change. And so I'm somebody that like,
if you're gonna sit around and complain about something and
not do anything about it, like I don't want to
hear it. And so I was like, you gotta make
a change, home girl.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Well and you got to hope that they're like, sure,
we'll help you with that instead of like, well, now
we hate you.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
But you're here. Yeah. Is that awkward? Yeah? That was
a reality.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
And so I was like, they don't have to honor
my trade, you know request. But I have a really
really great relationship with that organization, with the ownership and
they you know, the coaching staff, and they understood.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Where I was coming from.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
It sucked just all around because we all envisioned it
being something completely different, but they were really respectful of
my wishes and made something happen.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
So I was super grateful for that.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
You know, we hear so much about trades in the
media business, and we sort of are used to just
breaking news and talking about people switching teams, but we
sometimes don't really think about it's people with like stuff
and lives. Yeah, you knew this was coming at least,
but take us through that actual process of like how
do I move my life and what's actually important right
(04:35):
now when I still have to switch teams, get to
know a team, learn my teammates, and keep playing this season.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
So it's actually really crazy because the trade deadline I
think was five days away, because up until that point,
I was like, we're here, we're gonna thug it out.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
We're just gonna make the best of it.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
And trade deadline was five days away, and I hit
my agent and I was like, listen, this is not
what I want. I don't you know, as the oldest
player in the league. You know, as older athletes, the
narrative comes around trying to like create this narrative for you.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Oh, she's the oldest player in the league. Oh she's wash.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
She hasn't hit a shot, she's not doing this, And
it's like, well, you come, do your job when you're
not feeling good and you're not confident in what's happening,
you know. And so for me, I text her and
I was like request the trade. So I literally had
five days to try to a if I'm going to
actually be traded, and then if I am, when and
where am I going? So when I found out, so
that was a Friday night, So when I found out Monday,
(05:30):
I had to meet my team and I had to
meet DC in Minnesota on Wednesday. So I literally had
forty eight hours to do everything myself and pack up
my life because my again my intention was being in
Seattle through the entire season, off season being around, so
I moved my life.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I have two dogs and to have to.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Pack up my entire apartment figure out what I'm gonna
do with them because I had and timing, it was
like okay, So I hired movers to come pack up
my apartment that next day, made travel arrangements to get
to meet the team in Minnesota, get the dogs situated,
and then take all my crap to FedEx to ship
both to DC. At home, because again I knew I
was gonna be in DC for a month. It's the
(06:12):
end of the season, so it was it was really hectic,
and it didn't really hit me until I went back
to get my dogs after the road trip that I
was on with the team, and I just sat in
my empty apartment and.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
It just like I was flooded with emotion.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
And it was just really hard because I'm like, all
of these things that I envisioned, what Seattle meant, just
the pressure of all of it, I was like, holy shit,
I don't know if I can say that, sorry, but
you know.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
We can always swear okay.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
But it just like it was, it was so much.
And then not only are you mourning that part of
what you thought, now you have to recreate and pick up.
And so it's like where am I gonna take my
Where who's gonna be my dog sitter?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Where am I going to grocery shop?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
And so I'm grateful that it was DC because I
had spending two years there, you know, a couple of
years ago. I had some familiarity, but it was still
a lot. It was a lot.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
So I don't know if you're ready to talk about
this yet, but I think part of the emotions there
are as you are getting older, trying to figure out
when does my career end?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
And where does it end?
Speaker 1 (07:14):
And it certainly sounds like you were thinking full circle.
Let me go back to the place that I won
two championships, let me go back to the place that
I spent eight years early in my career. When that
doesn't feel right? Are you trying to rewrite a storybook ending?
Now that feels okay? If that wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah, I think I got to a place finally after
dealing with all of the emotion from it all. And
it's funny because I was like, I'm just going to
stop saying I'm going to retire somewhere, because every time
I've done that, I've either a not been wanted to
be back. I've been you know, left, and then you know,
asked for as right. So I'm like, let me just
(07:54):
shut up, just be where I am. So I think
I've come to terms with just being like wherever I
do finish whatever.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
That looks like I'm just gonna be okay with.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
And you know, for me, I'm somebody that I look
for signs and I'm you know, a believer, So I
feel like things happen for a reason. But when I
look back at that opportunity to be back in Seattle
when I left after we were in the bubble in
twenty twenty, so the last time I was actually in
the city was twenty nineteen. So I never had the
opportunity to have an in person goodbye to the organization,
(08:25):
to the fan base that was there and had supported me,
and ooh, I'm getting emotional.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Ooh.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
So for me, like when I processed it all, I
was like, that was God's way of giving you the
opportunity to do that, and so I'm grateful, regardless of
how it turned out, I'm grateful that I had that
opportunity in person.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Well, and then you go to DC and there's this
incredible role for you there because that's a young team
and there are some superstars looking for a vet looking.
We just saw in that preview of Fastest six Weeks
and Sport how much those youngsters need someone to take
them under their wing and say here's how this goes.
You've got two incredible rookies and Sonya Citron and Kiki
(09:09):
Eriefen there. How did you feel like your role shifted
from maybe this is for me when you were choosing Seattle,
so this is for them? Or what's next in this
league when you got to DC.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Yeah, you know, Fortunately for me, I've I've always been
a leader where it's whatever is needed with the team first,
and so I was really grateful to walk into this
situation where I now got to pay forward what my
vets did for me, and so being able to be
around this young group like, they're amazing. They were so
fun to show up to work with every day. They
(09:42):
were sponges. And you know, with these new classes that
have come in, you have some classes that they just
are super entitled and they don't want to listen and
they think they know more than they do. But then
you have a crop that like comes in and they
want to learn, they want to be great, and that
was what I was around in DC.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
So was Sonya and Keiky in particular.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
They just they loved to compete, They want to be great,
and you know, they want to do whatever it takes
to do that. And so for me, it was super
easy to pour into them because they were receptive to it.
Like Keith and I were talking after our game in
Baltimore and I was just telling them, like, I'm so
grateful that I got to finish the season here with
you guys.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
You guys have been amazing.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
It was everything that I needed, And Keithy was like, no,
it's the same for us. She's like, even from the
time when you met us in Minnesota, She's like, when
you came out for practice and you were tuning stuff
you were doing, She's like, I was like, oh my gosh,
there's levels to this.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
But in my mind, I'm like, this is normal. This
is what you're supposed to do as bro.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
You activate and get ready so you can go out
here in practice. But that's the norm for me that
they haven't seen. So being able to just show them
what being a professional looks like, showing them how to
build good habits, because if you want to chase greatness
and championships and all of those things, it starts in
your daily habits. It starts in how you prepare every
(10:59):
single day at practice. And so to be able to
show them and kind of help lay that foundation was
really amazing.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
It takes a lot of work to stick around for
thirteen years in professional sports, So let's give her a
hand for that. And we do we hear from the
ogs later in their careers, like I had to get
a different plan for my eating, for my working out
for my warm ups. Even I'm sure they were watching
you warming up and thinking like, dang, you gotta spend
(11:26):
twenty minutes doing plios before you even start practice, and
you're like, just wait, youngsters.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah, but it was cool.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
This year, four of the five all rookie class members
were the top four picks in the drafty So this
rookie class showed up.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Yeah, which is incredible. Yeah, it's an amazing class. The
league is definitely in good hands. Yeah, so don't say that, Like,
don't say that. Listen, I got more years behind me
than I do in front.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Okay, we know.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
I mean truly, you would be a miracle if you
had more ears in front or do them. But you're
literally a pro athlete born in the eighties, which is
like amazing. When I see nineteen eighty, I'm like, yes,
got one, because now they're born in the two thousands
and that's legal. That's not even child labor. Somehow, I know,
it's insane, like gross.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
There are so many moments when I got to DC
that I would make a joke. I mean even something
were like Talladega Knights. That's not that old of a movie,
but I made like a reference to it and everyone
was like no, and I was like, you don't, nobody no,
And they were.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Like sorry, ac No. I was like, go home and
watch Talladega nights.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Right now, rubbing is racing girls.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
You know.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I just sold someone on the show about Blackstar, like
most stuff and telip Quali and she had no idea
about any of it. And then she goes, were they
like before two thousand? I go, yeah, but I know
about stuff that happened before I was born. Like, expand
your horizons, kiddo, let's talk about that whole conversation. Thirteen
(12:51):
years in the league, you'll be thirty eight next July.
We'll only get to talk about women's ages in sports
because it's literally on the internet.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
I'm gonna be thirty nine.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I'm thirty nine in July.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
I'm thirty eight now.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Dang that with a badge on, Honey, That's.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Actually what I have written down.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
I was just doing what I do for myself and
going backwards around. So how long do you see yourself
playing after this? And what's left for you to prove
or do that will help you figure out when it's
time to be done.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
I don't know the exact answer to that it'll depend on,
you know, what these free agency conversations look like. I
would always joking back, I don't want to be forty
playing basketball, because like that's wild.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
But okay, Diana, here we are. Oh, I definitely will
not be.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
One thing I can promise is you will not see
me above forty. I can promise you that. Okay, maybe
like a couple of days or months, but no. But
it'll depend on what these free agency conversations look like
in my mind, and you know, it just will see.
But I feel great, my body feels great. I'm grateful
that I was able to walk away from another season healthy.
(13:59):
But for me, I just like I want to be
able to walk away on my own terms. As athletes,
we don't always get that opportunity. A lot of the
time the game is taken away from you, and you know,
I want to be able to say that, yeah, I
could have probably kept going, but I wanted to walk
away and start the next chapter of my life. This
has been an amazing It's been better than I could
have ever dreamt or even imagined that this would have
(14:20):
turned out to be. So for me, it's just about
going somewhere again, just being somewhere where I'm valued, I'm utilized.
At the end of the day, I'm always trying to
compete and win. I'm selfish. I want as many championships
walking away from year as I can. I'm highly competitive
and driven, and.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
So we're gonna see.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
I don't I don't know what is out there for me,
but hopefully you know a great situation to close out
this chapter well.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
And with the CBA negotiations and with I believe it's
like two veterans are currently under contract for next season.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, it's not an exaggeration.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
It's like, literally, two veteran players have a contract for
next year. Everybody else made sure their contracts ended this
season so they could take advantage of what should be
a big salary bump next year.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
And I want that for you before you leave.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I want you to taste some of the good stuff
that you helped work this league for before you get
out of here. So there's gonna be a whole lot
of different looking teams, it feels like next year. That
plus the expansion drafts for Toronto and Portland, so there's
going to be a lot of shakeups this offseason, assuming
the deal gets done. Yeah, I want to talk about
that in a second, But I first want to ask you.
You went pro in twenty ten, but you didn't play
(15:28):
with the W till twenty twelve. So when you look
back at that twenty twelve season and you compare it
to this season, what stands out to you the most
about how different that league was from the W you're
playing in now.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Oh gosh, there's everything, for incident, like for starters, the
average age in the league. When I got into the league,
it was such a heavy veteran league. Everybody was in
their thirties, like there you could, I mean, rookies were
barely making rosters. I remember, you know at the time
in Seattle, Shikina Strickland the number two draft pick out
(16:01):
at Tennessee, and you know, I was a twenty five
year old rookie, and so we brought our average age
of our team down by like six years because just
the two of us. So I think just that it
that is the biggest difference. But two, I think you
just see a lot more like the pace of the game,
the skills of the players. It's also different obviously having
(16:25):
your own practice facilities and you know, more investment, being
able to watch back then, like you could barely find
our games anywhere, and if you're lucky, if it was
like you know, the Links and the Sparks at the time,
or the Links and somebody else, like they were the
primetime games, but that was it wasn't very often. And
so yeah, there's there's been a whole lot of change.
(16:47):
I mean just even the interest in it, the way
people are following it. They're like voicing their opinions about
not being able to find the games, and they're wanting
merchandise and having something as simple as having jerseys of
replayer on the team. I didn't have my own jersey
in a team store until I got to DC, which
was in twenty twenty one. You know, outside of that,
(17:08):
it was like a special made shirt, a special to
made order shirt, or if you know, if you're the
top players on the team, you had your jersey.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
But it wasn't like that.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
And so to be able to have access, to be
able to follow all your players, because at the end
of the day, somebody on that roster is going to
resonate with somebody watching, and to not be able to
support and you know, rep that player or follow along
with them was really disheartening and so to be able
to see that now it's been it's been amazing.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
And y'all got jets now, you know.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
It's don't have to sleep on airpoint but on the
court floors anymore. I don't have to, you know, worry
about getting stuck and having to go to McDonald's because
you got to lay over and there's nothing else to eat.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Like it's it's so different.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
What's something you'd still like to see improve in the
W Is something that still needs to professionalize?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Man.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
I think the biggest part is just investment in player
health and safe d from you know, organizations. It shouldn't
be every every organization should have their own practice facility,
should have properly and adequately equipped medical staff. There shouldn't
I shouldn't be sharing, We shouldn't be having to share
(18:16):
a trainer and not have a PT on staff.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Like.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
These are things that help players show up and play
the best and be the best product that's out on
the floor. And so I think when you have that
across the league, the uniform across the league, it's only
going to help raise the product. But I think starting
there with just investing in making sure that you know
our facilities and all the things that encumbas for us
to show up and be professional athletes. I think, once
(18:39):
that's uniform across the league, that's that's what I want
to see the most.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Right now, we got to take a quick break more
with Alicia Clark right after this. I mentioned those CBA negotiations.
A lot of conversation right now because of NFISA, Collier's comments,
the Engelbert's press or a lot of others speaking up,
(19:03):
and there's a lot of media who have been digging
into this story for a few months. But of course
I think those statements have ratcheted up a bit. What
do you wish people knew about the CBA negotiations that
you don't think most people do.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
I think, just for starters, I wish people understood, like
what it is that we're actually fighting for. You know,
there's a lot of wordiness going on about salaries and
it's like, yeah, we're wanting to give them bigger salaries
and all these different things, but it's like, what we're
actually fighting for is a revenue share model in the
business that we are helping grow, and you know, it's
(19:40):
not tied to a fixed percentage that's you know, right now,
it's three percent, Like that's insane. And the fact that
we don't have a revenue sharing model, but like men's
leagues do, why haven't.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
We been able to do that?
Speaker 3 (19:56):
And so that's what we're really after right now, is
just really transforming the CBA into what is more than
deserved and what's overdue, Like we deserve to be able
to share in the revenue that we are helping drive
fans and play and people showing up to games and
tuning into games, are showing up to watch us, you
know what I mean. And so we are here and
that's something that we've been standing on since we opted
(20:18):
out last year, and we're not budging on it, like
that is what we are after and we're gonna fight
until we get it.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yeah, the current system and the previous CBA, because of COVID,
it was a cumulative goal post hitting system that because
COVID hit and then the year after also was limited
in terms of attendance and otherwise, y'all are so far
behind the eight ball that they can't catch up. And
so then that doesn't kick in. You don't get the
(20:48):
revenue percentage, and even the revenue you were going to
be awarded as a result of that was very little.
There's a Nobel Prize winning economist, Claudia Golden who wrote
an op ed for The New York Times where she
actually dug into all the data and said that based
on attendance and TV rights deals and dollars per minute
of games, et cetera, and so on, WNBA players should
(21:08):
make about a third or a quarter of what NBA
players make, and y'all make an adth.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Insane, right.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
So if you actually have the numbers and the data
and you can bring that to the table, and the
argument still is that you're asking for too much or
you're demanding something that isn't okay, I think it's it's
gonna be real hard for them and the public. The
public is very clearly on your side, which is great too,
because in a lot of ways, the public often will
be critical of professional athletes asking for more. Somehow they're
(21:37):
able to not relate to a millionaire player and they
side with a billionaire owner. But in the case of
women athletes, I think they recognize that for such a
long time, y'all have not been getting paid what you're owed,
and real hard to say rocket ship growth out of
one side of your mouth and not enough money for
the players out of.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
The other side.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Welcome, very interesting to see what happens. Do you think
that they, the league and the play players would benefit
from more transparency when it comes to the finances because
I find that media coverage it is very difficult to
talk about league revenue, league profit, league spending because the
complicated nature of the NBA owning forty two percent, the
sixteen percent private equity share, the WNBA owning the rest,
(22:17):
all of that gets basically muddied up. They won't report
anything except for right before CBA negotiations when they talk
about losses. Do you think that there needs to be
a demand for more of that to be made public?
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Short answers Yes, But I do think because, like for instance,
with fees Com with her comments the other day, everybody
was like oh wow, you know, and when the young
players came into the league and people understanding like what
the salary that they were going to make, everyone was.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Like oh wow.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
And I think until people really understand what it actually
is for us as players, it's hard for them to
get around. So they're looking at us like, oh, you
guys make x amount of dollars you're fine, Like you're
asking for too much. But that's what we've been told
this entire time, is like, be grateful that you have
a platform, be grateful that there is a league, be
grateful that you're getting anything. And it's like, Okay, well,
(23:08):
we're supposed to be the best in the world. We
should be, we should be compensated as such. And so
I think, yes, there should be some transparency so that
way you can see where you know, costs are actually,
where expenses actually are, where there needs to be more investment,
because it, like you said, every time they want to
talk about it, it's always about the losses, But any other
(23:29):
time it's about, oh, look at the expansion fees, look
at this media rights deal, look at how much merchandise,
look at ticket sales, and it's like cool, but where's
all that going?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah, all these NBA owners fighting to get an expansion
team because it's terrible business. They're not going to make
any money. Yeah, okay, I want to talk quickly about
your work with Voice and Sport. We've had some folks
from that organization on our show. They do a ton
of mentoring, they do a lot of activism, around things
like Title nine rights and things like that. But I
(23:57):
was reading your bio and it's a very short bio,
but you said you're never too late. You're not the
limitations others place on you, and your authentic self is
more than enough. Why was that the message you wanted
in your very short bio to tell players, you know,
come to me for mentorship.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Yeah. One, I think just because like a tension span
of everyone. If I had a really long bio, they
probably be like, oh, next, But I wanted them to
just kind of get a grasp of, in a very
short span of words, like what they could come and
expect from me in my sessions. And I'm somebody that
you know, this journey that I've been on, the lessons
(24:34):
that I've learned, I want to be able to share.
And I was like, Okay, how can I put this
in a way that they can understand, like the broad
spectrum of topics that I'll talk about, while also still
captivating their attention from the beginning. I think when you
talk to young you know, young people, helping them understand
and be the best version of themselves, showing up as
(24:55):
their authentic selves and letting them know because I mean,
we live in such a microwave society and insane beauty
standards of things that are so accessible at your fingertips
that you aren't enough. You aren't enough, And I'm like,
I want you to know that this is a safe
space for me to continue to encourage you that you
are enough, because that was something that I had to
go through and grow through to be able to be
(25:16):
in a place now where I'm confident in whom the
woman that I am, and confident to be able to
speak as who I am and not feel like I
have to change up to fit into certain rooms or
different scenarios. It's like, cool, if I show up as
myself and you don't like me, that's okay, Like we
weren't meant to be in each other's space. But if
I show up as myself, I feel like you gravitate
(25:37):
more towards things that are in alignment for who you are.
And I want to be able to showcase that to
this younger generation.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Well, and you put in there that you're not just
there to talk about basketball and on the court stuff,
but loving your body, fueling your body, dealing with grief
like things that are just life. Yeah, what makes you
want to be that person for young players. Did you
have that when you got into the league or do
you feel like that's something where it's too often like bifurcated,
(26:04):
like here's your basketball people and here's the people to
talk to other stuff about that you want to bring together.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Yeah, I think for me, I've always been somebody that
understands life outside of sport. Because I was such a
late comer to sports, I had an identity outside of
basketball in the sports that I played, And so.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
When I started basketball in seventh grade, yeah, that was.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
The first time I ever touched a basketball And the
first time I ever like tried out for a team
and actually was like trained to learn was freshman year
of high school, so very late compared to a lot
of people. But because of that, you know, and I
was fortunate enough to grow up in a household where
you know, you treated people for people. You know, you
(26:47):
didn't see them as their career, you didn't see them
as you know, their title, whatever it was. They were
a human being first. And so that's something that I've
always been really proud of as I've gone through this journey,
is I've never forgotten that I'm a human and a
person first, and so yeah, life life's like just because
I'm a basketball player doesn't mean I'm not dealing with
(27:08):
other things, you know what I mean. So I just
wanted to be able to give the tools to be
able to navigate different areas because at the end of
the day, everybody's going to lose somebody that they love,
you know what I mean. Everybody's going to have to
go through Yes, especially as like young women, we're going
to we go through body changes. It's normal, you know
what I mean, But it's not talked about in that way.
So I wanted to help normalize those conversations and help
(27:29):
people understand and have the tools to be able to
navigate through life's ups and downs.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Everybody.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Alicia Clark, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Thanks again to Alicia for taking the time. We got
to take another break when we come back. What a
WNBA broadcaster an NYU professor at a bouncy Castle can
teach us about sports discourse welcome back slices. With the
twenty twenty five WNBA season coming to an end, I
(28:00):
just wanted to briefly touch on something that's sort of
been knocking around in my brain the last few weeks
and something that I realized the other day others in
the sports biz are thinking about too. So you remember
my conversation with Annie Costable about Angel Reese a couple
weeks ago, a conversation in which I paraphrased one of
Angel's comments in a newspaper article, and a lot of
folks accused me of malicious intent, some sort of like
(28:21):
desire to slander or smear Angel. Now, I apologized and
acknowledged that there was laziness in paraphrasing instead of directly
quoting her, But I couldn't stop thinking about how many
people said I'd been influenced by articles or online debates
or opinions that I hadn't even seen. I couldn't stop
thinking about how many people were certain that there was
intention behind my paraphrasing that wasn't there. So I started
(28:42):
to wonder if I could actually do this job of
a daily women's sports show without getting into the weeds
on Reddit threads, Twitter debates and Instagram comment sections, Like
what I need to be in those spaces every single
day to know what ideas or opinions I might be
accused of agreeing with or ideas and opinions I might
be accused of putting a spotlight on did I need
(29:03):
to know what w fans were debating about and disagreeing
about at all times so that I could quote unquote
pick a side, or at least know if a side
might be ascribed to me. Now, I don't really want
to do that, not just because I'm tired of that shit,
having been in this business, and specifically in the flaming
hot holes of the healthscape that is social media for
(29:25):
two decades watching it descend from a sort of reasonable
place to gather into a literal tool for fascism and dissension,
and not just because the existential dread of living in
the current times makes me think multiple times a day
how I should just like be outside in nature or
donating my time to a worthy cause, or helping kids
(29:46):
leave their school safely without being scooped up and kidnapped
by ice, Like how can I be worried about online
debates or sports opinions while the world is going up
in flames around me? Yes, those are all good reasons
not to want to be the Reddit threads, but also
because I want to talk about what's real, like the
games and players and stories and actual quotes, not what's
(30:07):
being invented or concocted, or supposed or alleged online. And
it's really hard to tell what's real when your knee
deep in online misinformation and opinion all the time. And
the other day I realized that I'm not the only
one kind of thinking about how much WNBA conversation is
online right now. WNBA broadcaster Ryan Ruco was on Sue
Bird's Bird's Eye View podcast recently. It's a really fantastic,
(30:30):
wide ranging conversation that I highly recommend, and he compared
social media to a bouncy house. He said, we can't
be surprised when online WNBA discourse is heated and outrageous
any more than we can be surprised when kids playing
in a bouncy house are flying around it sort of
out of control. Both the social media app and the
bouncy house are doing what they're built for. So shortly
(30:52):
before listening to this Ryan and Sue conversation, I had
seen NYU professor, speaker and podcaster Scott Galloway speak at
the Atlantic Best and he had talked about how this
is what social media is built for. He had talked
about how brands used to thrive knowing that sex sells,
and now they thrive knowing the only thing that sells
more than sex is anger in rage to engage. And
(31:14):
I guess Ruko has moved hearing the same kind of
message from Galloway recently because he connected it to the
WNBA conversation take a lessen.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
But like, if you think about it, there has been
endless amounts of brain science research poured into these apps
which control our narratives and our motions and our days.
Right is what have they figured out? And you know,
someone who I love listening to, Scott Galloway, talks about
(31:43):
this all the time. They figured out the thing that
you know sells better than anything is rage. Right, So
the platform you are you're on is literally formatted to
induce rage. It upregulates in your feed things that are
going to create conflict and you know, stir emotions up
(32:05):
in you. And so if you're using that as like
your kind of truth window into all narratives, like I
think that you're forgetting, there's there's a massive glaze on
it that is trying to create a level of controversy,
you know, And so where I think social media has
been incredibly useful for women's basketball. Is it has become
(32:26):
kind of like a billboard to take people to the
games in a way that you know, maybe is unique.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
And I think has helped grow the audience quite significantly
because there is such a fervent online presence. And where
I think it's hurt a little bit is it's allowed
the discourse to become you know, super toxic at times,
and then for people to think like this is these
are the only real conversations happening right now, when really
(32:53):
it's like, well, no, these are these are kind of
like neurologically engineered conversations that you just happen to be
in the middle love, you know. And and and that's
where I also think, like it's on all of us,
you know, whether you know, whether we're in the media,
whether we cover the sport, whether we play the sport, whatever,
or we're just consumers like these companies, and this is
(33:14):
like a broader conversation a little bit. And I know,
you know, I feel this way about these things, but
like these companies, they are not going to do this
for us, right like, unless we have some you know,
unbelievably altruistic you know, multi billionaire who is able to
buy these platforms and say, hey, I'm going to make
(33:35):
things right. You know, it's really on us. You know,
we have to be our own gatekeepers when it comes
to you know, technological intelligence, right, and media awareness and
like we all have to just like have media literacy
is really the term. We have to have some level
of media literacy when we go into all of this
and use that to help inform our conversations of what's
(33:58):
real and what's not, what should be real and what's not.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
I just couldn't agree more with how Ryan put all
those things together and the conclusion he came to. It
is on us to keep the conversation productive and to
keep our spaces as free of toxicity as possible. And
I'm just gonna have to accept it if occasionally the
very very online assume that I'm pushing a narrative that
I've never even seen, Like, I want you all to
(34:23):
keep me honest. If you see actual important stuff that
I miss, please send it, Like Alex and.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Whoever replaces me should.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
I are going to keep trying to keep up with everything,
but if it's important stuff and we're missing it, send
it to us. We want to know, we want to
be good, Like, I'm still trying to do the best
show I can do, and I'm trying to read up
and study up and know as much as I can,
but not if it requires spending my one, wild and
precious life buried in angry reddit threads. So I don't
(34:52):
know if I feel the urge to say this as
a preventative measure in case it happens again, but I
guess yeah, just I'm doing my But if y'all want
to get in those threads, godspeed, It couldn't be me.
We love that you're listening, but we want you to
get in the game every day too. So here's our
good gameplay of the day. It's a simple one. Follow
(35:12):
Alicia on social media. Yeah, the social media I just
told you is a hellscape. Parts of it are okay,
and her social media is more than okay, especially the
cooking reels so good. We'll link to her bio in
the show notes and go back and check out that
full conversation with Ryan Ruco and Sue Bird. There's so
much good stuff in there, including what Sue Bird hopes
will be introduced as the Sue Bird Rule, where players
(35:33):
will only get five fouls instead of six.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Per game.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
There's a lot of good stuff in there about officiating
at other things, so we'll link to that full interview
in the show notes. We always love to hear from you.
Hit us up on email good game at wondermedianetwork dot com,
or leave us a voicemail at eight seven two two
oh four fifty seventy and don't forget to subscribe, rate
and review. It's easy watch octagenarian Feats of Strength rating
eighty years of badassory review. Congratulations going out to eighty
(36:03):
year old Natalie Graybow, who became the first woman in
the forty seven year history of the Kona Ironman ever
to compete in the eighty to eighty.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Four year old age group.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
And when she crossed the finish line of the two
point four mile swim, one hundred and twelve mile bike ride,
and twenty six point two mile run last weekend with
a time of sixteen hours forty five minutes, she became
the oldest woman ever to cross the finish line at Kona.
Just like Alicia Clark said, never too old, never too late, y'all,
let's all remember that when we're feeling too tired, we're
(36:36):
too lazy to get our asses up out of bed
to get to the gym, to play pick up, or
to run around with our kids or our dogs. Also
want to give a shout out to Norwegian Solveg Loveseeth
on winning that race in eight hours, twenty eight minutes,
twenty seven seconds, and shout out to front of the
show Hailey Chura who finished twentieth, and also to friend
at the show Chelsea Sodaro, who was among several top
(36:57):
competitors that were unable to complete that race in part
due to brutal heat and humidity. Showing up is impressive enough,
and we know you're going to show up again next
time to Chelsea. Now it's your turn. Y'all rate and review,
Thanks for listening, See you tomorrow. Good game, Alicia, Good game,
Ryan Ruco. Cue to the very tired part of my
(37:19):
brain that said Alicia.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Never going to live that down.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Never. Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's
sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.
You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network,
our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive
producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder.
(37:46):
Our editors are Emily Rutter, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch and
Gianna Palmer. Our associate producer is Lucy Jones. Production assistance
from Avery Loftist and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're still
stuck on step one of grieving Niche's departure from the
show Denial. It's Tuesday, October fourteenth, and on today's show,
we'll be skipping the need to note and getting right
to my conversation with WNBA vet Alicia Clark. We sat
down at IHEARTHQ in New York City last Wednesday as
part of a larger WNBA Finals celebration. It was part
(00:21):
of a whirlwind forty eight hours of events in the
Big Apple for me, so keep an ear out for me.
Flubbin Alisha's name sleep deprivation is real, y'all. Anyway, we
had a great conversation. We talked about why she requested
a mid season trade from the Seattle Storm, her mentoring
the youth of the Washington Mystics, resetting expectations for her
final years in the league, and how she's had to
(00:41):
evolve with age. Great conversation. It's coming up right after this.
She's the WNBA's wiliest vet, and that's a really nice
way of saying she's the oldest.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Player in the league.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
She is old enough to have been drafted a team
that no longer exists the San Antonio Silver Stars, currently
on the Washington Mystics. She's also played for the Seattle Storm,
the Las Vegas Aces, and pro teams in Israel, Turkey, Poland,
and France. A three time WNBA Champion, Polish League Champion,
French League champion, she played her college ball at Belmont
(01:21):
and Middle Tennessee, leading the NCAA and scoring two years
in a row and becoming the only player male or
female ever to be Conference Player of the Year all
four years of college in two different conferences. Her cooking
reels are professh and her tunnel fits are so fresh
it's Alicia Clark. Come on, Alisha. I just said Alicia
(01:45):
because I said fresh, I was like profesh and so fresh, Alish,
that's not your name, Alisha Clark, come on down. So
proud of my rhyming for real though, with the tunnel fits,
because I went on a deep dive in that Instagram. Yeah,
that's a whole job right there finding those right.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
No, honestly shout out to my style as Kiara Logan.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
So it is a whole job. Yeah, she takes her down.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
That's all I have to do is show up and
play basketball.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Alicia, we were at dinner together like two years ago,
right before all of iHeart Women's Sports Network launched and
you were getting ready for your season. You were talking
about being a vet and all the prep that goes
into it.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
So I want to.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Talk about that quickly because you started this year in
Seattle in August. You get traded to the Mystics. Yeah,
how do you find that out? And what's your response?
Thirteen years in? Like, man, where am I going? When?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Honestly, it was kind of crazy.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
So I knew because I'm the one who requested the
trade and that was the first time ever in my
career and it's pretty nerve wracking, but a big thing
with sports just in general. It doesn't matter how talented
you are, it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Matter what you've done. It's all about fit.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
And you know, I went in and we as the
Storm and coaching staff, like we went into the season thinking,
you know one thing, like Okay, this is what it's
gonna be.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
This is you know how we view this going. And
in my mind I had all of this.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Oh, I'm going back to where I won my first
two championships. You know where I got my first you
know opportunity in this league, and I just had all
these thoughts and emotions and it just didn't pan out
that way. And so I had a really difficult decision
to make, honestly, and like the split, I'm like, you're
either gonna be okay with this and you know what's
what your role has been, what it's become, or you're
(03:33):
gonna make a change. And so I'm somebody that like,
if you're gonna sit around and complain about something and
not do anything about it, like I don't want to
hear it. And so I was like, you gotta make
a change, home girl.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Well and you got to hope that they're like, sure,
we'll help you with that instead of like, well, now
we hate you.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
But you're here. Yeah. Is that awkward? Yeah? That was
a reality.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
And so I was like, they don't have to honor
my trade, you know request. But I have a really
really great relationship with that organization, with the ownership and
they you know, the coaching staff, and they understood.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Where I was coming from.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
It sucked just all around because we all envisioned it
being something completely different, but they were really respectful of
my wishes and made something happen.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
So I was super grateful for that.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
You know, we hear so much about trades in the
media business, and we sort of are used to just
breaking news and talking about people switching teams, but we
sometimes don't really think about it's people with like stuff
and lives. Yeah, you knew this was coming at least,
but take us through that actual process of like how
do I move my life and what's actually important right
(04:35):
now when I still have to switch teams, get to
know a team, learn my teammates, and keep playing this season.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
So it's actually really crazy because the trade deadline I
think was five days away, because up until that point,
I was like, we're here, we're gonna thug it out.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
We're just gonna make the best of it.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
And trade deadline was five days away, and I hit
my agent and I was like, listen, this is not
what I want. I don't you know, as the oldest
player in the league. You know, as older athletes, the
narrative comes around trying to like create this narrative for you.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Oh, she's the oldest player in the league. Oh she's wash.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
She hasn't hit a shot, she's not doing this, And
it's like, well, you come, do your job when you're
not feeling good and you're not confident in what's happening,
you know. And so for me, I text her and
I was like request the trade. So I literally had
five days to try to a if I'm going to
actually be traded, and then if I am, when and
where am I going? So when I found out, so
that was a Friday night, So when I found out Monday,
(05:30):
I had to meet my team and I had to
meet DC in Minnesota on Wednesday. So I literally had
forty eight hours to do everything myself and pack up
my life because my again my intention was being in
Seattle through the entire season, off season being around, so
I moved my life.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I have two dogs and to have to.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Pack up my entire apartment figure out what I'm gonna
do with them because I had and timing, it was
like okay, So I hired movers to come pack up
my apartment that next day, made travel arrangements to get
to meet the team in Minnesota, get the dogs situated,
and then take all my crap to FedEx to ship
both to DC. At home, because again I knew I
was gonna be in DC for a month. It's the
(06:12):
end of the season, so it was it was really hectic,
and it didn't really hit me until I went back
to get my dogs after the road trip that I
was on with the team, and I just sat in
my empty apartment and.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
It just like I was flooded with emotion.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
And it was just really hard because I'm like, all
of these things that I envisioned, what Seattle meant, just
the pressure of all of it, I was like, holy shit,
I don't know if I can say that, sorry, but
you know.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
We can always swear okay.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
But it just like it was, it was so much.
And then not only are you mourning that part of
what you thought, now you have to recreate and pick up.
And so it's like where am I gonna take my
Where who's gonna be my dog sitter?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Where am I going to grocery shop?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
And so I'm grateful that it was DC because I
had spending two years there, you know, a couple of
years ago. I had some familiarity, but it was still
a lot. It was a lot.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
So I don't know if you're ready to talk about
this yet, but I think part of the emotions there
are as you are getting older, trying to figure out
when does my career end?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
And where does it end?
Speaker 1 (07:14):
And it certainly sounds like you were thinking full circle.
Let me go back to the place that I won
two championships, let me go back to the place that
I spent eight years early in my career. When that
doesn't feel right? Are you trying to rewrite a storybook ending?
Now that feels okay? If that wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah, I think I got to a place finally after
dealing with all of the emotion from it all. And
it's funny because I was like, I'm just going to
stop saying I'm going to retire somewhere, because every time
I've done that, I've either a not been wanted to
be back. I've been you know, left, and then you know,
asked for as right. So I'm like, let me just
(07:54):
shut up, just be where I am. So I think
I've come to terms with just being like wherever I
do finish whatever.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
That looks like I'm just gonna be okay with.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
And you know, for me, I'm somebody that I look
for signs and I'm you know, a believer, So I
feel like things happen for a reason. But when I
look back at that opportunity to be back in Seattle
when I left after we were in the bubble in
twenty twenty, so the last time I was actually in
the city was twenty nineteen. So I never had the
opportunity to have an in person goodbye to the organization,
(08:25):
to the fan base that was there and had supported me,
and ooh, I'm getting emotional.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Ooh.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
So for me, like when I processed it all, I
was like, that was God's way of giving you the
opportunity to do that, and so I'm grateful, regardless of
how it turned out, I'm grateful that I had that
opportunity in person.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Well, and then you go to DC and there's this
incredible role for you there because that's a young team
and there are some superstars looking for a vet looking.
We just saw in that preview of Fastest six Weeks
and Sport how much those youngsters need someone to take
them under their wing and say here's how this goes.
You've got two incredible rookies and Sonya Citron and Kiki
(09:09):
Eriefen there. How did you feel like your role shifted
from maybe this is for me when you were choosing Seattle,
so this is for them? Or what's next in this
league when you got to DC.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Yeah, you know, Fortunately for me, I've I've always been
a leader where it's whatever is needed with the team first,
and so I was really grateful to walk into this
situation where I now got to pay forward what my
vets did for me, and so being able to be
around this young group like, they're amazing. They were so
fun to show up to work with every day. They
(09:42):
were sponges. And you know, with these new classes that
have come in, you have some classes that they just
are super entitled and they don't want to listen and
they think they know more than they do. But then
you have a crop that like comes in and they
want to learn, they want to be great, and that
was what I was around in DC.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
So was Sonya and Keiky in particular.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
They just they loved to compete, They want to be great,
and you know, they want to do whatever it takes
to do that. And so for me, it was super
easy to pour into them because they were receptive to it.
Like Keith and I were talking after our game in
Baltimore and I was just telling them, like, I'm so
grateful that I got to finish the season here with
you guys.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
You guys have been amazing.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
It was everything that I needed, And Keithy was like, no,
it's the same for us. She's like, even from the
time when you met us in Minnesota, She's like, when
you came out for practice and you were tuning stuff
you were doing, She's like, I was like, oh my gosh,
there's levels to this.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
But in my mind, I'm like, this is normal. This
is what you're supposed to do as bro.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
You activate and get ready so you can go out
here in practice. But that's the norm for me that
they haven't seen. So being able to just show them
what being a professional looks like, showing them how to
build good habits, because if you want to chase greatness
and championships and all of those things, it starts in
your daily habits. It starts in how you prepare every
(10:59):
single day at practice. And so to be able to
show them and kind of help lay that foundation was
really amazing.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
It takes a lot of work to stick around for
thirteen years in professional sports, So let's give her a
hand for that. And we do we hear from the
ogs later in their careers, like I had to get
a different plan for my eating, for my working out
for my warm ups. Even I'm sure they were watching
you warming up and thinking like, dang, you gotta spend
(11:26):
twenty minutes doing plios before you even start practice, and
you're like, just wait, youngsters.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah, but it was cool.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
This year, four of the five all rookie class members
were the top four picks in the drafty So this
rookie class showed up.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Yeah, which is incredible. Yeah, it's an amazing class. The
league is definitely in good hands. Yeah, so don't say that, Like,
don't say that. Listen, I got more years behind me
than I do in front.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Okay, we know.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
I mean truly, you would be a miracle if you
had more ears in front or do them. But you're
literally a pro athlete born in the eighties, which is
like amazing. When I see nineteen eighty, I'm like, yes,
got one, because now they're born in the two thousands
and that's legal. That's not even child labor. Somehow, I know,
it's insane, like gross.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
There are so many moments when I got to DC
that I would make a joke. I mean even something
were like Talladega Knights. That's not that old of a movie,
but I made like a reference to it and everyone
was like no, and I was like, you don't, nobody no,
And they were.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Like sorry, ac No. I was like, go home and
watch Talladega nights.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Right now, rubbing is racing girls.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
You know.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I just sold someone on the show about Blackstar, like
most stuff and telip Quali and she had no idea
about any of it. And then she goes, were they
like before two thousand? I go, yeah, but I know
about stuff that happened before I was born. Like, expand
your horizons, kiddo, let's talk about that whole conversation. Thirteen
(12:51):
years in the league, you'll be thirty eight next July.
We'll only get to talk about women's ages in sports
because it's literally on the internet.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
I'm gonna be thirty nine.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I'm thirty nine in July.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
I'm thirty eight now.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Dang that with a badge on, Honey, That's.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Actually what I have written down.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
I was just doing what I do for myself and
going backwards around. So how long do you see yourself
playing after this? And what's left for you to prove
or do that will help you figure out when it's
time to be done.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
I don't know the exact answer to that it'll depend on,
you know, what these free agency conversations look like. I
would always joking back, I don't want to be forty
playing basketball, because like that's wild.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
But okay, Diana, here we are. Oh, I definitely will
not be.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
One thing I can promise is you will not see
me above forty. I can promise you that. Okay, maybe
like a couple of days or months, but no. But
it'll depend on what these free agency conversations look like
in my mind, and you know, it just will see.
But I feel great, my body feels great. I'm grateful
that I was able to walk away from another season healthy.
(13:59):
But for me, I just like I want to be
able to walk away on my own terms. As athletes,
we don't always get that opportunity. A lot of the
time the game is taken away from you, and you know,
I want to be able to say that, yeah, I
could have probably kept going, but I wanted to walk
away and start the next chapter of my life. This
has been an amazing It's been better than I could
have ever dreamt or even imagined that this would have
(14:20):
turned out to be. So for me, it's just about
going somewhere again, just being somewhere where I'm valued, I'm utilized.
At the end of the day, I'm always trying to
compete and win. I'm selfish. I want as many championships
walking away from year as I can. I'm highly competitive
and driven, and.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
So we're gonna see.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
I don't I don't know what is out there for me,
but hopefully you know a great situation to close out
this chapter well.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
And with the CBA negotiations and with I believe it's
like two veterans are currently under contract for next season.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, it's not an exaggeration.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
It's like, literally, two veteran players have a contract for
next year. Everybody else made sure their contracts ended this
season so they could take advantage of what should be
a big salary bump next year.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
And I want that for you before you leave.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I want you to taste some of the good stuff
that you helped work this league for before you get
out of here. So there's gonna be a whole lot
of different looking teams, it feels like next year. That
plus the expansion drafts for Toronto and Portland, so there's
going to be a lot of shakeups this offseason, assuming
the deal gets done. Yeah, I want to talk about
that in a second, But I first want to ask you.
You went pro in twenty ten, but you didn't play
(15:28):
with the W till twenty twelve. So when you look
back at that twenty twelve season and you compare it
to this season, what stands out to you the most
about how different that league was from the W you're
playing in now.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Oh gosh, there's everything, for incident, like for starters, the
average age in the league. When I got into the league,
it was such a heavy veteran league. Everybody was in
their thirties, like there you could, I mean, rookies were
barely making rosters. I remember, you know at the time
in Seattle, Shikina Strickland the number two draft pick out
(16:01):
at Tennessee, and you know, I was a twenty five
year old rookie, and so we brought our average age
of our team down by like six years because just
the two of us. So I think just that it
that is the biggest difference. But two, I think you
just see a lot more like the pace of the game,
the skills of the players. It's also different obviously having
(16:25):
your own practice facilities and you know, more investment, being
able to watch back then, like you could barely find
our games anywhere, and if you're lucky, if it was
like you know, the Links and the Sparks at the time,
or the Links and somebody else, like they were the
primetime games, but that was it wasn't very often. And
so yeah, there's there's been a whole lot of change.
(16:47):
I mean just even the interest in it, the way
people are following it. They're like voicing their opinions about
not being able to find the games, and they're wanting
merchandise and having something as simple as having jerseys of
replayer on the team. I didn't have my own jersey
in a team store until I got to DC, which
was in twenty twenty one. You know, outside of that,
(17:08):
it was like a special made shirt, a special to
made order shirt, or if you know, if you're the
top players on the team, you had your jersey.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
But it wasn't like that.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
And so to be able to have access, to be
able to follow all your players, because at the end
of the day, somebody on that roster is going to
resonate with somebody watching, and to not be able to
support and you know, rep that player or follow along
with them was really disheartening and so to be able
to see that now it's been it's been amazing.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
And y'all got jets now, you know.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
It's don't have to sleep on airpoint but on the
court floors anymore. I don't have to, you know, worry
about getting stuck and having to go to McDonald's because
you got to lay over and there's nothing else to eat.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Like it's it's so different.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
What's something you'd still like to see improve in the
W Is something that still needs to professionalize?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Man.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
I think the biggest part is just investment in player
health and safe d from you know, organizations. It shouldn't
be every every organization should have their own practice facility,
should have properly and adequately equipped medical staff. There shouldn't
I shouldn't be sharing, We shouldn't be having to share
(18:16):
a trainer and not have a PT on staff.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Like.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
These are things that help players show up and play
the best and be the best product that's out on
the floor. And so I think when you have that
across the league, the uniform across the league, it's only
going to help raise the product. But I think starting
there with just investing in making sure that you know
our facilities and all the things that encumbas for us
to show up and be professional athletes. I think, once
(18:39):
that's uniform across the league, that's that's what I want
to see the most.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Right now, we got to take a quick break more
with Alicia Clark right after this. I mentioned those CBA negotiations.
A lot of conversation right now because of NFISA, Collier's comments,
the Engelbert's press or a lot of others speaking up,
(19:03):
and there's a lot of media who have been digging
into this story for a few months. But of course
I think those statements have ratcheted up a bit. What
do you wish people knew about the CBA negotiations that
you don't think most people do.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
I think, just for starters, I wish people understood, like
what it is that we're actually fighting for. You know,
there's a lot of wordiness going on about salaries and
it's like, yeah, we're wanting to give them bigger salaries
and all these different things, but it's like, what we're
actually fighting for is a revenue share model in the
business that we are helping grow, and you know, it's
(19:40):
not tied to a fixed percentage that's you know, right now,
it's three percent, Like that's insane. And the fact that
we don't have a revenue sharing model, but like men's
leagues do, why haven't.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
We been able to do that?
Speaker 3 (19:56):
And so that's what we're really after right now, is
just really transforming the CBA into what is more than
deserved and what's overdue, Like we deserve to be able
to share in the revenue that we are helping drive
fans and play and people showing up to games and
tuning into games, are showing up to watch us, you
know what I mean. And so we are here and
that's something that we've been standing on since we opted
(20:18):
out last year, and we're not budging on it, like
that is what we are after and we're gonna fight
until we get it.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yeah, the current system and the previous CBA, because of COVID,
it was a cumulative goal post hitting system that because
COVID hit and then the year after also was limited
in terms of attendance and otherwise, y'all are so far
behind the eight ball that they can't catch up. And
so then that doesn't kick in. You don't get the
(20:48):
revenue percentage, and even the revenue you were going to
be awarded as a result of that was very little.
There's a Nobel Prize winning economist, Claudia Golden who wrote
an op ed for The New York Times where she
actually dug into all the data and said that based
on attendance and TV rights deals and dollars per minute
of games, et cetera, and so on, WNBA players should
(21:08):
make about a third or a quarter of what NBA
players make, and y'all make an adth.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Insane, right.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
So if you actually have the numbers and the data
and you can bring that to the table, and the
argument still is that you're asking for too much or
you're demanding something that isn't okay, I think it's it's
gonna be real hard for them and the public. The
public is very clearly on your side, which is great too,
because in a lot of ways, the public often will
be critical of professional athletes asking for more. Somehow they're
(21:37):
able to not relate to a millionaire player and they
side with a billionaire owner. But in the case of
women athletes, I think they recognize that for such a
long time, y'all have not been getting paid what you're owed,
and real hard to say rocket ship growth out of
one side of your mouth and not enough money for
the players out of.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
The other side.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Welcome, very interesting to see what happens. Do you think
that they, the league and the play players would benefit
from more transparency when it comes to the finances because
I find that media coverage it is very difficult to
talk about league revenue, league profit, league spending because the
complicated nature of the NBA owning forty two percent, the
sixteen percent private equity share, the WNBA owning the rest,
(22:17):
all of that gets basically muddied up. They won't report
anything except for right before CBA negotiations when they talk
about losses. Do you think that there needs to be
a demand for more of that to be made public?
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Short answers Yes, But I do think because, like for instance,
with fees Com with her comments the other day, everybody
was like oh wow, you know, and when the young
players came into the league and people understanding like what
the salary that they were going to make, everyone was.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Like oh wow.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
And I think until people really understand what it actually
is for us as players, it's hard for them to
get around. So they're looking at us like, oh, you
guys make x amount of dollars you're fine, Like you're
asking for too much. But that's what we've been told
this entire time, is like, be grateful that you have
a platform, be grateful that there is a league, be
grateful that you're getting anything. And it's like, Okay, well,
(23:08):
we're supposed to be the best in the world. We
should be, we should be compensated as such. And so
I think, yes, there should be some transparency so that
way you can see where you know, costs are actually,
where expenses actually are, where there needs to be more investment,
because it, like you said, every time they want to
talk about it, it's always about the losses, But any other
(23:29):
time it's about, oh, look at the expansion fees, look
at this media rights deal, look at how much merchandise,
look at ticket sales, and it's like cool, but where's
all that going?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah, all these NBA owners fighting to get an expansion
team because it's terrible business. They're not going to make
any money. Yeah, okay, I want to talk quickly about
your work with Voice and Sport. We've had some folks
from that organization on our show. They do a ton
of mentoring, they do a lot of activism, around things
like Title nine rights and things like that. But I
(23:57):
was reading your bio and it's a very short bio,
but you said you're never too late. You're not the
limitations others place on you, and your authentic self is
more than enough. Why was that the message you wanted
in your very short bio to tell players, you know,
come to me for mentorship.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Yeah. One, I think just because like a tension span
of everyone. If I had a really long bio, they
probably be like, oh, next, But I wanted them to
just kind of get a grasp of, in a very
short span of words, like what they could come and
expect from me in my sessions. And I'm somebody that
you know, this journey that I've been on, the lessons
(24:34):
that I've learned, I want to be able to share.
And I was like, Okay, how can I put this
in a way that they can understand, like the broad
spectrum of topics that I'll talk about, while also still
captivating their attention from the beginning. I think when you
talk to young you know, young people, helping them understand
and be the best version of themselves, showing up as
(24:55):
their authentic selves and letting them know because I mean,
we live in such a microwave society and insane beauty
standards of things that are so accessible at your fingertips
that you aren't enough. You aren't enough, And I'm like,
I want you to know that this is a safe
space for me to continue to encourage you that you
are enough, because that was something that I had to
go through and grow through to be able to be
(25:16):
in a place now where I'm confident in whom the
woman that I am, and confident to be able to
speak as who I am and not feel like I
have to change up to fit into certain rooms or
different scenarios. It's like, cool, if I show up as
myself and you don't like me, that's okay, Like we
weren't meant to be in each other's space. But if
I show up as myself, I feel like you gravitate
(25:37):
more towards things that are in alignment for who you are.
And I want to be able to showcase that to
this younger generation.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Well, and you put in there that you're not just
there to talk about basketball and on the court stuff,
but loving your body, fueling your body, dealing with grief
like things that are just life. Yeah, what makes you
want to be that person for young players. Did you
have that when you got into the league or do
you feel like that's something where it's too often like bifurcated,
(26:04):
like here's your basketball people and here's the people to
talk to other stuff about that you want to bring together.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Yeah, I think for me, I've always been somebody that
understands life outside of sport. Because I was such a
late comer to sports, I had an identity outside of
basketball in the sports that I played, And so.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
When I started basketball in seventh grade, yeah, that was.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
The first time I ever touched a basketball And the
first time I ever like tried out for a team
and actually was like trained to learn was freshman year
of high school, so very late compared to a lot
of people. But because of that, you know, and I
was fortunate enough to grow up in a household where
you know, you treated people for people. You know, you
(26:47):
didn't see them as their career, you didn't see them
as you know, their title, whatever it was. They were
a human being first. And so that's something that I've
always been really proud of as I've gone through this journey,
is I've never forgotten that I'm a human and a
person first, and so yeah, life life's like just because
I'm a basketball player doesn't mean I'm not dealing with
(27:08):
other things, you know what I mean. So I just
wanted to be able to give the tools to be
able to navigate different areas because at the end of
the day, everybody's going to lose somebody that they love,
you know what I mean. Everybody's going to have to
go through Yes, especially as like young women, we're going
to we go through body changes. It's normal, you know
what I mean, But it's not talked about in that way.
So I wanted to help normalize those conversations and help
(27:29):
people understand and have the tools to be able to
navigate through life's ups and downs.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Everybody.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Alicia Clark, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Thanks again to Alicia for taking the time. We got
to take another break when we come back. What a
WNBA broadcaster an NYU professor at a bouncy Castle can
teach us about sports discourse welcome back slices. With the
twenty twenty five WNBA season coming to an end, I
(28:00):
just wanted to briefly touch on something that's sort of
been knocking around in my brain the last few weeks
and something that I realized the other day others in
the sports biz are thinking about too. So you remember
my conversation with Annie Costable about Angel Reese a couple
weeks ago, a conversation in which I paraphrased one of
Angel's comments in a newspaper article, and a lot of
folks accused me of malicious intent, some sort of like
(28:21):
desire to slander or smear Angel. Now, I apologized and
acknowledged that there was laziness in paraphrasing instead of directly
quoting her, But I couldn't stop thinking about how many
people said I'd been influenced by articles or online debates
or opinions that I hadn't even seen. I couldn't stop
thinking about how many people were certain that there was
intention behind my paraphrasing that wasn't there. So I started
(28:42):
to wonder if I could actually do this job of
a daily women's sports show without getting into the weeds
on Reddit threads, Twitter debates and Instagram comment sections, Like
what I need to be in those spaces every single
day to know what ideas or opinions I might be
accused of agreeing with or ideas and opinions I might
be accused of putting a spotlight on did I need
(29:03):
to know what w fans were debating about and disagreeing
about at all times so that I could quote unquote
pick a side, or at least know if a side
might be ascribed to me. Now, I don't really want
to do that, not just because I'm tired of that shit,
having been in this business, and specifically in the flaming
hot holes of the healthscape that is social media for
(29:25):
two decades watching it descend from a sort of reasonable
place to gather into a literal tool for fascism and dissension,
and not just because the existential dread of living in
the current times makes me think multiple times a day
how I should just like be outside in nature or
donating my time to a worthy cause, or helping kids
(29:46):
leave their school safely without being scooped up and kidnapped
by ice, Like how can I be worried about online
debates or sports opinions while the world is going up
in flames around me? Yes, those are all good reasons
not to want to be the Reddit threads, but also
because I want to talk about what's real, like the
games and players and stories and actual quotes, not what's
(30:07):
being invented or concocted, or supposed or alleged online. And
it's really hard to tell what's real when your knee
deep in online misinformation and opinion all the time. And
the other day I realized that I'm not the only
one kind of thinking about how much WNBA conversation is
online right now. WNBA broadcaster Ryan Ruco was on Sue
Bird's Bird's Eye View podcast recently. It's a really fantastic,
(30:30):
wide ranging conversation that I highly recommend, and he compared
social media to a bouncy house. He said, we can't
be surprised when online WNBA discourse is heated and outrageous
any more than we can be surprised when kids playing
in a bouncy house are flying around it sort of
out of control. Both the social media app and the
bouncy house are doing what they're built for. So shortly
(30:52):
before listening to this Ryan and Sue conversation, I had
seen NYU professor, speaker and podcaster Scott Galloway speak at
the Atlantic Best and he had talked about how this
is what social media is built for. He had talked
about how brands used to thrive knowing that sex sells,
and now they thrive knowing the only thing that sells
more than sex is anger in rage to engage. And
(31:14):
I guess Ruko has moved hearing the same kind of
message from Galloway recently because he connected it to the
WNBA conversation take a lessen.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
But like, if you think about it, there has been
endless amounts of brain science research poured into these apps
which control our narratives and our motions and our days.
Right is what have they figured out? And you know,
someone who I love listening to, Scott Galloway, talks about
(31:43):
this all the time. They figured out the thing that
you know sells better than anything is rage. Right, So
the platform you are you're on is literally formatted to
induce rage. It upregulates in your feed things that are
going to create conflict and you know, stir emotions up
(32:05):
in you. And so if you're using that as like
your kind of truth window into all narratives, like I
think that you're forgetting, there's there's a massive glaze on
it that is trying to create a level of controversy,
you know, And so where I think social media has
been incredibly useful for women's basketball. Is it has become
(32:26):
kind of like a billboard to take people to the
games in a way that you know, maybe is unique.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
And I think has helped grow the audience quite significantly
because there is such a fervent online presence. And where
I think it's hurt a little bit is it's allowed
the discourse to become you know, super toxic at times,
and then for people to think like this is these
are the only real conversations happening right now, when really
(32:53):
it's like, well, no, these are these are kind of
like neurologically engineered conversations that you just happen to be
in the middle love, you know. And and and that's
where I also think, like it's on all of us,
you know, whether you know, whether we're in the media,
whether we cover the sport, whether we play the sport, whatever,
or we're just consumers like these companies, and this is
(33:14):
like a broader conversation a little bit. And I know,
you know, I feel this way about these things, but
like these companies, they are not going to do this
for us, right like, unless we have some you know,
unbelievably altruistic you know, multi billionaire who is able to
buy these platforms and say, hey, I'm going to make
(33:35):
things right. You know, it's really on us. You know,
we have to be our own gatekeepers when it comes
to you know, technological intelligence, right, and media awareness and
like we all have to just like have media literacy
is really the term. We have to have some level
of media literacy when we go into all of this
and use that to help inform our conversations of what's
(33:58):
real and what's not, what should be real and what's not.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
I just couldn't agree more with how Ryan put all
those things together and the conclusion he came to. It
is on us to keep the conversation productive and to
keep our spaces as free of toxicity as possible. And
I'm just gonna have to accept it if occasionally the
very very online assume that I'm pushing a narrative that
I've never even seen, Like, I want you all to
(34:23):
keep me honest. If you see actual important stuff that
I miss, please send it, Like Alex and.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Whoever replaces me should.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
I are going to keep trying to keep up with everything,
but if it's important stuff and we're missing it, send
it to us. We want to know, we want to
be good, Like, I'm still trying to do the best
show I can do, and I'm trying to read up
and study up and know as much as I can,
but not if it requires spending my one, wild and
precious life buried in angry reddit threads. So I don't
(34:52):
know if I feel the urge to say this as
a preventative measure in case it happens again, but I
guess yeah, just I'm doing my But if y'all want
to get in those threads, godspeed, It couldn't be me.
We love that you're listening, but we want you to
get in the game every day too. So here's our
good gameplay of the day. It's a simple one. Follow
(35:12):
Alicia on social media. Yeah, the social media I just
told you is a hellscape. Parts of it are okay,
and her social media is more than okay, especially the
cooking reels so good. We'll link to her bio in
the show notes and go back and check out that
full conversation with Ryan Ruco and Sue Bird. There's so
much good stuff in there, including what Sue Bird hopes
will be introduced as the Sue Bird Rule, where players
(35:33):
will only get five fouls instead of six.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Per game.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
There's a lot of good stuff in there about officiating
at other things, so we'll link to that full interview
in the show notes. We always love to hear from you.
Hit us up on email good game at wondermedianetwork dot com,
or leave us a voicemail at eight seven two two
oh four fifty seventy and don't forget to subscribe, rate
and review. It's easy watch octagenarian Feats of Strength rating
eighty years of badassory review. Congratulations going out to eighty
(36:03):
year old Natalie Graybow, who became the first woman in
the forty seven year history of the Kona Ironman ever
to compete in the eighty to eighty.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Four year old age group.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
And when she crossed the finish line of the two
point four mile swim, one hundred and twelve mile bike ride,
and twenty six point two mile run last weekend with
a time of sixteen hours forty five minutes, she became
the oldest woman ever to cross the finish line at Kona.
Just like Alicia Clark said, never too old, never too late, y'all,
let's all remember that when we're feeling too tired, we're
(36:36):
too lazy to get our asses up out of bed
to get to the gym, to play pick up, or
to run around with our kids or our dogs. Also
want to give a shout out to Norwegian Solveg Loveseeth
on winning that race in eight hours, twenty eight minutes,
twenty seven seconds, and shout out to front of the
show Hailey Chura who finished twentieth, and also to friend
at the show Chelsea Sodaro, who was among several top
(36:57):
competitors that were unable to complete that race in part
due to brutal heat and humidity. Showing up is impressive enough,
and we know you're going to show up again next
time to Chelsea. Now it's your turn. Y'all rate and review,
Thanks for listening, See you tomorrow. Good game, Alicia, Good game,
Ryan Ruco. Cue to the very tired part of my
(37:19):
brain that said Alicia.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Never going to live that down.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Never. Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's
sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.
You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network,
our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive
producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder.
(37:46):
Our editors are Emily Rutter, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch and
Gianna Palmer. Our associate producer is Lucy Jones. Production assistance
from Avery Loftist and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain
Host
Sarah Spain
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