This Is Why You Have Exit Interviews with Annie Costabile

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we are
once again adding apostrophes to everything to celebrate Asia Wilson
winning MVP. That's m apostrophe VP. Y'all. It's Tuesday, September
twenty third, and on today show, we'll be chatting with
friend of the show, Annie Scoops Costable about the biggest
takeaways from the WNBA playoffs so far, the pros and

(00:21):
cons of coaches getting spicy, the behind the scenes chaos
of the Connecticut Sun sale, and her very candid thoughts
about the way many journalists responded to Angel Reese's comments
about her teammates and the Chicago Sky franchise. Plus, this
Current sets a record for speed, two elite track and
field clubs gain new members, and let's get routy for
two hundred bucks, shall we. It's all coming up right

(00:43):
after this welcome back slices. Here's what you need to
know today. Let's start with the NWSL, where the race
to the Shield ended on Saturday with the candid The
City Current clinching the club's first ever regular season title

(01:03):
thanks to a two nail win over the Seattle Rain.
It marks the fastest NWSL Shield win ever, based both
on games remaining in the season and percentage of games played.
Kansas City midfielder de Bean You got the score and
started in Saturday's match, converting a penalty and the thirty
fourth minute after a handball was called on Seattle. Then
in the seventy fourth minute, Temushawinga sealed the win with

(01:25):
her first career header and thirteenth goal of the regular season,
which moved her back into the lead in the Golden
Boot Race. Shawinga celebrated the moment by running straight past
her teammates and b lining it across the field to
hug her coach Vladco and Danovski. We'll link to the
video of the moment in the show notes because it's
just the best thing ever. Vladco was asked about it
in the press conference after the game.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
Take a listen or as many goals as she just course,
she hasn't scored aheader, and I'm so glad that I
did not accept her challenge. It actually happened yesterday and
she said if I score aheader, are you gonna dye
your hair like me? And I was like, absolutely not,
Like I mean that, lady's course goals left and right,

(02:07):
and I was like no, as she goes, no, no,
you're doing this.

Speaker 3 (02:11):
I'm like, Tama, I can't. Like I was so afraid
to get into any challenges and next thing, you know,
scores ahead, and I was so happy for her and
thinking to myself, like, oh my gosh, I'm so glad
I did I didn't get into that.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Honestly, probably a good call, vlad Coat, but also we
definitely support you. If you rocked blue hair too, you
could pull it off. We'll get back to soccer in
just a minute, but now we have to get to
Asia Wilson. Early Sunday morning, Wilson was announced as the
twenty twenty five MVP, making her the first player in
league history to earn MVP on hers four times. She

(02:48):
received fifty one first place votes and six hundred and
fifty seven total points to finish ahead of second place
Nefisa Collier, who received eighteen first place votes and five
hundred and thirty four total points. Wilson was presented with
the MVP award on Friday with WNBA commissioner Kathy Engelbert
and her boyfriend, Miami Heat player bam Audebio, surprising Wilson

(03:09):
with the trophy at the end of practice. Asia Wilson's dad, Roscoe,
as well as ace's owner Mark Davis, were also in
attendance for the trophy handoff, both sporting pink wigs to
match Wilson's look from media day earlier this season. We'll
link to the video of the moment she realized what
was about to happen, because it is just too precious,
and we'll also link to a photo of Dad and

(03:30):
Davis in the whigs because it's just too funny. Moving
on to Sunday's WNBA semi Finals. A few hours after
Wilson was named MVP, her number two seeded Aces hosted
the number six seed at Indiana Fever in Game one
of a best of five series. Led by Kelsey Mitchell.
With thirty four points on twelve for twenty three shooting,
the Fever pulled off the upset, stealing Game one eighty

(03:52):
nine seventy three. Odyssey Simms added seventeen points for the
Fever in the win, and Natasha Howard had a twelve
point eleven rebound double double. Meantime, Asia Wilson struggled with
her shot. She shot to six of twenty two from
the floor and She finished with sixteen points and thirteen rebounds,
which is good for most but disappointing for her. Later
on Sunday, the Minnesota Links opened up their semi final

(04:13):
series against the Phoenix Mercury with an eighty two to
sixty nine victory. The Mercury led forty seven to forty
at the half, but the Links limited them to just
twelve points in the second half, successfully doubling Phoenix triple
double machine Alyssa Thomas. Following halftime, Courtney Williams twenty three
points led the top seeded Links. Caleb McBride scored twenty
one and Nafisa Collier added eighteen points and nine boards.

(04:36):
The Links were without dejon A Carrington for Game one,
and it's been announced that she's out for the remainder
of the season after sustaining a midfoot sprain during the
team's first round series against the Valkyries. Both semi final
series continued tonight, beginning with the Mercury and Links at
seven thirty Eastern, followed by fever Aces at nine thirty.
And we'll have plenty more to say on all these

(04:57):
teams and the playoffs in general later in the show.
Within Constable it's more WNBA. Ahead of the semi finals,
Caitlin Clark said on social media she was fined two
hundred bucks for criticizing the referees during the Indiana Fever's
first round series against the Atlanta dream In two comments
on Instagram, Clark had written quote refs can't stop us
end quote elite bench mob. When a fan account posted

(05:19):
a screenshot of those comments, Clark reposted it, writing quote,
got fined two hundred bucks for this, Lol. Bench mob
will be even more rowdy tomorrow. Let's go a million
exclamation points even more rowdy. Well, we have no doubt.
Clark's injury may have her in street clothes, but it
hasn't kept her off the court, yelling at teammates, opponents,

(05:39):
and officials. More w the Atlanta Dreams Nozz Hillman was
named WNBA sixth Player of the Year on Saturday, becoming
the first player in team history to receive the honor. Hillman,
in her fourth season in the w averaged eight point
six points and six point two rebounds coming off the
bench in twenty seven to forty four games. She drained
fifty three to three pointers this season, after hitting just

(06:02):
one over the course of her first three years in
the league. One more award was announced on Monday, with
Seattle Storm forward and WNBA Players Association president Neca Ogumakay
being named the recipient of the Kim Parot Sportsmanship Award.
She's now the first player in league history to win
the award four times. She also won it in twenty nineteen,
twenty twenty, and twenty twenty one. Speaking of the Seattle Storm,

(06:25):
following their first round exit from the playoffs, the franchise
announced on Sunday that coach Noel Quinn will not return
next year. Quinn, the only black woman to serve as
a head coach in the WNBA this season, was the
second longest tenured w coach, having led the Storm since
twenty twenty one. During Quinn's time at the Helm, she
led them to four playoff appearances in five seasons, in
addition to the inaugural Commissioner's Cup title back in twenty

(06:48):
twenty one. But there was also turmoil behind the scenes,
including a dispute between Quinn's staff and star player Juel Lloyd,
who alleged harassment and bullying by the Storm coaching staff
and ultimately rec quested a trade out of Seattle, with
Quinn and the Storm parting ways. Cheryl Reeve remains the
longest tenured WNBA coach by a lot. Hired by the

(07:08):
Minnesota Links in two thousand and nine, Reeve has now
been on the job for five thousand, seven hundred and
sixty eight days. That's nearly as long as every other
w coach combined. The eleven others clock in at five
eight hundred and eighty four total days. Wild back to
the NWSL, while the Kansas City Current have locked up
the Shield, their closest competition throughout most of the season.

(07:30):
The Orlando Pride are now ranked seventh following a nine
game winless streak, including a one nothing lost to the
North Carolina Courage on Friday. That game was scoreless till
the end, when North Carolina's Shinomi Cuyama found the back
of the net in the eighty ninth minute. With Orlando
down in the standings, the Washington Spirit are in control
of the second spot on the table, followed by third

(07:51):
ranked Gotham FC and the fourth ranked Portland Thorns. More
NWSL Racing Louisville announced in a statement on Friday that
Savannah Demelo has been diss charged from the hospital and
is back at home following an on field medical emergency
during a game just over a week ago against the
Seattle Ragin. We're happy to hear Savannah's now home and
we're continuing to send her our best to track and field,

(08:13):
where a friend of the show, Anna Hall, won the
heptathlon World title on Saturday in Tokyo, Japan, becoming the
second ever American alongside legend Jackie Joyner Cursey, to win
the event. Joiner Cursey, who won the hep at the
World Championships in nineteen eighty seven and nineteen ninety three,
has been a mentor of Halls, and was seen sitting
in the stands with Hall's family during the final event

(08:33):
in Tokyo. Hall recorded six eight hundred eighty eight points
during the two day seven event competition, one hundred and
seventy four points ahead of silver medalist Kate O'Connor of Ireland.
Fellow American Talia Brooks recorded a personal best to tie
for bronze with Great Britain's Katerina Johnson Thompson, marking the
first time since nineteen eighty seven that the US has
won two medals in heptathlon at an Olympics or World Championships.

(08:57):
More track and field. Last week, we welcomed Melissa Jefferson
and Wooden into the Good Game Hall of Fame, chronicling
her journey to the one hundred meter world title. While
on Friday, Jefferson Wooden completed the one hundred two hundred double,
becoming the second woman in thirty years and first American
woman ever to win both events at a single World Championships.
Her time in the two hundred meter final twenty one

(09:17):
point sixty eight seconds, marks the best time in the
world in two years, and that's not all. On Sunday,
she helped the US women win gold in the four
x one hundred meter relay. In doing so, Jefferson wouldn't
became just the second American woman to win three gold
medals at a single World Championships, a club whose only
other member is none other than Alison Felix. To tennis,

(09:39):
the Billy Jean King Cup wrapped up on Sunday in China.
The annual team tournament is unlike any other event on
the tennis calendar, with athletes competing as members of their
respective national teams rather than as individuals. Italy, the defending
BJK Cup champions repeated this year, defeating Team USA in
the finals, sweeping both singles matches in straight sets. More

(10:00):
hoops news, this time from Team USA. On Monday, USA
Basketball announced that Kara Lawson will be the next head
coach of the US women's national team through the twenty
twenty six World Cup and twenty twenty eight Los Angeles Olympics.
Lawson takes over for Cheryl Reeve, who led the US
during the last Olympics cycle. Lawson is the current head
coach at Duke. She previously served as head coach of
the US three x three team that won the inaugural

(10:23):
gold medal at the twenty twenty one Tokyo Games. More hoops,
this time of the Unrivaled Variety. On Monday, ahead of
the three on three League second season, which begins in January,
the organization begin announcing which players will be suitin' up.
Remember for season two, the Unrivaled total player pool will
expand thanks to the addition of two new clubs, the
Breeze and the Hive, along with a six person player

(10:45):
development pool that they're adding. Per Unrivals Instagram, Some players
will stay on the same club as year one, while
others will switch clubs or join one of the two
new teams. The league has committed to announcing six players
every weekday through October First. The development players will be
announced at a later date. As of this recording, four
players have been announced. Melissa Thomas, Rakia Jackson, Satu Saboli,

(11:07):
and Pagebeckers. We got to take a quick break. When
we come back, I try to make Annie Constable step
in it stick around, joining us now for the third time.
She's a women's sports reporter for Front Office Sports, formerly

(11:30):
of the Chicago Sun Times. She's an Iowa grad queen
of the thrift fit, breaker of news and hearts. We wined,
dined and annoyed the hell out of all of our
fellow shuttle patrons in Portland. It's the Stunnin Annie Costable. Hi,
Annie stunn In stun In.

Speaker 4 (11:45):
Happy to be back. I don't know why you keep
having me back, but listen, I'm not going to complain.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
Ah, because you are a breaker of news and hearts Annie,
and you are have your finger on the pulse of
all things WNBA, and it is a great time to
have a great WNBA. Voys on the show. We are
knee deep in the postseason. I'm talking to you on Monday.
So both some my final series got started on Sunday.
Minnesota got behind but came back to defeat the Mercury
eighty two to sixty nine, and the Indiana Fever upset

(12:13):
the Aces eighty nine to seventy three on Asia Wilson's
big MVP and alten Day spoiling her day. Let's start
with the Lynks Mercury. What was your biggest takeaway from
that game one.

Speaker 4 (12:23):
I think it's just the level of poise that the
Links play with. They Cordy William, I mean, all of
them say this all the time, but they never feel
like they're down, and I think that was really exemplified,
especially the way they closed out that game right, because
you would never have known, at least in my opinion,

(12:45):
that they struggled the way they did defensively in the
first half had you only watched the third fourth quarter.
And I think that really speaks to the trajectory they're
on and their potential for winning this historic fifth title,
because again, when it comes to this point in the season,
it's not just about talent, it's about composure and your

(13:07):
ability to adjust in game. I mean, we just saw
the New York Liberty get ousted because of their inability
to adjust, and also you know they're dealing with a
ton of injuries, YadA, YadA, YadA. But at this point
in the season, that's what it's all about. And so
I think again, it just proved the dominance of the
Minnesota Lynx and what yeah again, the trajectory that they're on.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, yeah, I mean they're terrifying because you can get
up fourteen seventeen points and they're like, all right, cool,
let's put our heads down and get back in this one.
And then they do and they win.

Speaker 4 (13:38):
They're excited.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
Yeah, I had this yeap, that performance from the as
is not quite the same. They got down and they
stayed down. Yeah, what did you see in that game?
And how surprising was it to see the Fever come
out and steal Game one in Vegas?

Speaker 4 (13:54):
I mean, listen, I am not above admitting when I'm wrong.
Did my predictions and I was like, you know, I
think the Aces could close this out in four games.
I think the Phenix Mercury and the Lynx excuse me,
that's gonna be to me, a back and forth series.
But I was like, the Aces starting in Vegas. I

(14:17):
think they could close this out, especially the fever, the
injuries they're dealing with. Man my mentions, all these people
are like, oh, remember when I'm like, listen, guys, I
this was a prediction. I didn't say I had a
crystal ball. So what I'll say about not only the
fever in this specific moment, but how they've played all

(14:38):
season long, after dealing with season injuring injury after season
ending injury, is they've always risen to the occasion. And
you've got to give credit to Stephanie White for how
she's she's led this team through these moments and how
again she's a coach that's that's adjusting on the fly.

(15:00):
Speaks to again her talent as a coach, and also
her bench, her assistance. And then you've got to talk
about Kelsey Mitchell. I mean, I think people continue to
bring up her ability to put this franchise on her back.
But what we've got to acknowledge when we say that
is she's been doing that. There's a reason she can

(15:21):
do that. Is she actually, in my opinion, I think
is uniquely equipped in a way other stars maybe are not,
in the sense that Kelsey for the entire early part
of her career was responsible for the majority of the
success that the Fever had, losing season after losing season.

(15:42):
So yeah, right, and so that's why too, even this
story when you think about, you know, where the Fever
goes this season, even next season. I mean, that's that's
a really special story to watch Kelsey Mitchell stays with
the Fever through you know, the next few years of

(16:03):
her career, through through her entire career because she's she
was there through the dark times. And also Odyssey Simms.
I mean, this is a veteran like who when you
even think about beyond this season, there need to bring
her back or get a point guard with that veteran
experience back, because when Caitlyn comes back, you want to

(16:23):
have a backup that has that level of experience. And
we're seeing why right now because in these moments again
when adjusting is everything, you need a vet and she's
got ten years of experience and it's showing in these
critical moments.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
And pretty wild to see someone on a hardship contract
that has to have a home be having the effect
and the impact that Odyssey Simms has had. Pretty impressive. Right,
You want to make some news talking about how the
Fever are better off without Kaitlin.

Speaker 4 (16:49):
Oh, I'm not going to get myself in trouble with that.
I don't want to say thank you for setting me
up like that. No, I love you. And listen. If
people want to fly off the handle and start putting
that shit out there, go for it. But you're you're
embrace debaterace debate, yea, getting those debates. But Caylen's clearly

(17:14):
like you know, she's going to make a difference when
she's back. It's just about her getting back and being.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
Consistently back, and yeah, there's a there's a conversation to
be had about how they will adjust to the way
that people thrive when she's off the court. But also
more importantly, it's not just about whether she's there, it's
whether she's there consistently gaming and game out that they
can game plan around the in and out all season
long of this year made it so that even when
she was available this was he hadn't gotten into a rhythm.
So anyway, just want to see if you wanted to

(17:40):
get aggregated and get us put on some weird AI
generated website.

Speaker 4 (17:44):
Well said Haylen, bark is done.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, she's no good. Let's go back to round one
really quick. Because you mentioned the Liberty, this is now
your home beat. They got asked by the Mercury. They
lost that series two games to one. When we caught
up in June when you were on the show, the
liber were hot. They look like they had a real
shot to win a second straight WNBA title. When they
added Emma Miseman. I was like trees the two threes,

(18:07):
that you can't stop this team when they're on is
too hard, but then they limp down the stretch. They
finished fifth in the standings go on to lose in
round one. Can you walk us through what you saw
from this team and why it didn't end up working
out this year?

Speaker 4 (18:22):
Yeah, you know, I've seen this in the past two
I think we all have. If you cover sports long enough.
There are times when teams face hurdles and the mentality becomes, well,
when we're at one hundred, we're going to be a
different team when we get there, we're going to be
a different team. And we saw they never they never
got there. Stuwie Sabrina and John Quell played I believe,

(18:46):
fifteen full games together and so of course at full strength.
This is an entirely different situation we're talking about. The
season goes differently, but we know in sports like that's
that you don't you don't win games because you should
have you win the games that your record says you won.

(19:08):
And so they there, I think, in my opinion, the
Achilles heel here was their inability to adjust with what
they had. And so I think that's the biggest question
mark for the Liberty is they had depth beyond the injuries.
Why didn't we see a different result utilizing that depth?

(19:30):
And so this team, again, like so many others, unfortunately
got dealt a really tough hand when it came to injuries.
But look at where the Fever are and look at
where the Liberty are. If you're looking at these rosters,
even the depth of these rosters, right, anyone looking at
these two rosters would say that the situation should be flipped.

(19:51):
The Fever should have lost in the first round, right,
And and that's just again looking black and white at
the roster. And so that's the question you got to ask,
is what prevented the Liberty from adjusting considering the depth
they had beyond the stars they had on that team
that were injured for a majority of the season.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
Right Brianna Stewart became the all time leading scorer in
Liberty postseason history during that series and tried to put
the team on her back in that decisive Game three,
but it wasn't enough. She then gave us an all
time meme after the game, responding to a question about
Sandy Brundella's future as the head games of the team
with the simple what the do you think it's fair

(20:34):
for folks to question Sandy just one season after the
franchise's first title win, understanding what you just said about
maybe not using the pieces right.

Speaker 4 (20:41):
Yeah, I mean there's so many layers to this, but
I'm a straight shooter. I think absolutely. I think we've
seen coaches get fired for less, or coaches and teams
part ways for less, and so I think anytime a
season ends, that's automatically the question that gets put on
the table is where does the franchise stand with the coach?
Is this still the right coach to lead them forward?

(21:03):
And what I'll say about this situation too, is we
just saw on social media or we just all got alerted,
like the Chicago skuy aren't doing exit interviews with Courtney
vanderslut Ariel Atkins, and Angel Reesa anymore. And so obviously
this question gets asked in this postgame press conference to
Stewie because the Liberty aren't doing exit interviews, which is

(21:23):
totally within their right, and Stewie's response is well within
her right. Like her Sabrina, this entire team is standing
ten toes down behind Sandy Brondello. That doesn't mean that
the question isn't warranted, because again, considering the underperformance of
this team, it's a legitimate question. And I think Sandy

(21:44):
herself would not be afraid of that either, Like she's
a pro, she's a two time championship winning coach, like
she knows. It's just it's the process. It's where you
go after a season like they had.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
Well, I think you did mention on social media, which
I agree with that if teams are going to start
electing not to have exit interviews, you better prep your
players for being in the aftermath of a devastating loss,
their season ending, and that's when you're gonna get asked
about your future, your coach's future to make future, instead
of having time to compose yourself, talk to your teammates
talk to your family, talk to your coaches about what

(22:18):
you anticipate coming next. Now, maybe we'll get more honest responses,
but also maybe not as accurate if they haven't had
the time to sit and see about those things and
to process the loss they just endured. I do want
to ask you about Sandy Brundella, because yes, I think
any time a season ends, even when a team wins,
you can still have the conversation about what next season

(22:38):
looks like and whether the hestor is still the right
person for the job. But do you think a coach
should be fired for less? Because right now, when you
look at the WNBA, Cheryl Reeve by far and away
is the longest tenured coach two thousand and nine. Noel
Quinn is now out for the Seattle Storm. So we've
got Becky Hammond hired in twenty twenty one, Sandy Brundello

(22:58):
twenty twenty two, we've got like Nate Tibbett shockingly the
fourth longest tenured coach, and he was hired in twenty
twenty three. So is this league too quick to fire
as opposed to letting teams have more time with a
roster and in a city to figure things out.

Speaker 4 (23:15):
Yeah, I love this question, and I in fact love
that you're asking it right now because I just wrote
about this with Minnesota and Cheryl Reeves tenure there. I mean,
there's something to say about longevity, and a franchise is
buy in with a team, and a franchise is commitment
to a coach in the sense that realistically, a title
every season is it doesn't happen. It just doesn't happen.

(23:40):
So what are you willing to allow? How much are
you willing to allow your coach to try and fail
and to make adjustments? And what's your mark of success?
Because again, if you look at Minnesota fourteen postseason trips
in a fifteen year time span, you look at that

(24:00):
over the last fifteen years, that's a mark of success.
No other franchise has ever done that. That's success. Right.
But the Links had to let Cheryl Weather through those
post dynasty years. So when I look at the liberty, right,
first of all, the player's outward support of Sandy, I
think says a lot and says a lot about the

(24:23):
questions that the franchise has to answer in that regard
of like, Okay, we didn't get where we wanted to be,
But do we give this another go next year assuming
everyone's healthy, right, and then you've got to again think
about where else do you go from here?

Speaker 1 (24:40):
Right? Right? Is there a better coach or making a
change to make a change, because to me, Sandy Brundella
has proved herself with the Phoenix Mercury and with the
Liberty and in her limited time, brought the franchise its
first ever title.

Speaker 4 (24:52):
One thing I.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
Think that's interesting to think about when you look at
the difference between the Liberty and the Fever in terms
of their reaction to adversity the season, is that the
Liberty were an established team full of pieces from last
year's title that you knew worked to win a title.
The Fever were a newly constructed team of so many
pieces that hadn't yet played together or spent significant time together,

(25:17):
that didn't have a ton of success last year. So
there's a lot more of, I think, an agility from
the start with that Fever team, where the understanding that
it's going to be an experiment, and with the Liberty,
you can sort of understand why Sandy might stick to
her guns on what she thinks is going to work
because it has worked as opposed to being creative in
her response to injury. It's not to let her off

(25:39):
the hook. It's just I wonder if that's some of
what goes into those two teams and their different ways
of reacting to setbacks.

Speaker 4 (25:46):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's fair. I think that's
also why you have exit interviews so you could ask.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
Yes, agree. I imagine Sandy will hopefully. I can't imagine
she doesn't speak to soon after that.

Speaker 4 (25:57):
Right Sandy, And I'll say too, like the Liberty are
a very accessible team, and I think at some point
there will be media access, whether it's specific journalists that
get to talk to to Sanny, whatever the case is.
But what I'll say to that point you just made
about the Fever and the Liberty as well, is again,
when there's expectation on a roster or on a certain lineup,

(26:19):
and then that lineup gets blown up because of injury,
it's easy to see how a team, a coach, a
franchise would say, Okay, well we just need to wait
until we get them all back and then we'll be
able to go back to that. What the Fever were
forced to do, they had to accept in the moment.
These players are done, We've got to adjust. The Liberty

(26:40):
didn't take that same mindset and approach.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
So the Liberty didn't repeat. But Asia Wilson did her
second straight MVP, her fourth first WNBA player in history
to win four MPH thoughts on her taking the title
over and if he's a collier Alissa Thomas and others.

Speaker 4 (26:57):
Yeah, I tweeted my thoughts. I think that the whole
generational talent thing, we all overuse it. It's a really
catchy term. It looks good in print. We love to
fire it off and say it about all these people.
But the reality is, when you're talking about a generational talent,
it's singular. You're talking about one person, and so there's

(27:20):
just no arguing really that it's anyone else other than
Asia right now. And what I'll say to that, and
the reason that's like a compliment not only to Asia
but to everyone else that is competing with her. The
Visa had a incredible historic season one that if she

(27:41):
wasn't competing against Asia would have she would have been
MVP by a landside. There would be no question. I mean,
maybe that's premature because obviously Alyssa Thomas is still in
that discussion too, so let me back that up. That
was premature. Alysa Thomas is right there with the Visa
in that respect. But what I'm say saying is that
history that Nefisa made that only Elena Deladon has also accomplished,

(28:06):
which was Elena's MVP season. If Asia's not Asia, you're
an MVP. And so I think it speaks to how
impressive it is for Nefisa to be doing what she's doing,
for Alica to be doing what she's doing, for Kelsey
to be doing what she's doing, because you're attempting to

(28:28):
overthrow not just anyone, but arguably the greatest of all time.
And I think that's what I wish we would do
more of in sports, specifically in women's sports, is like,
let's appreciate the greatness that we're witnessing and not ten
years from now, twenty years from now look back and say, oh, yeah,
we all said Asia was the greatest. No, like everyone's

(28:51):
but kind of backtracking or tiptoeing around that conversation like
it's okay to acknowledge it in the moment. And I
think you'd be hard pressed to find legiti met basketball
voices that wouldn't say the same right.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
I want to ask about that because I do think
sometimes we want pleasantries for all, support for all, sometimes
at the expense of using those singular qualifiers for the greatest.
And at the same time, I do think it's okay
in women's sports to acknowledge that if there's a constant
pitting of women against each other, and not in the
competitive sports sense, but in other bullshit ways, it makes

(29:29):
sometimes leadership I think have a responsibility to how they
carry themselves. So I'm asking this because a few weeks ago,
Ajia Wilson's college coach John Staley posted a congrats to
the WNBA and it's players for a great season and
wrote along with that quote, if there's truly no funny
stuff in the air, Asia Wilson really is the MVP. Then,
just a few days ago, when Asia and Alana Smith

(29:51):
were named co Defensive Players of the Year, Wilson's current coach,
Becky Hammond criticized that they were given co honors and said, quote,
to me me, there's no comparison. A white tailed deer
looks really good until an elk walks in the room. Now, coaches,
I mean, what a present though, Like, yeah, it's an
iconic line. Yes, I feel like coaches always hype their

(30:14):
players totally, it's fine, But do you have an issue
with alleging funny stuff if those players don't win, or
taking shots at other players and trying to hype yours.

Speaker 4 (30:25):
I mean, I think it's our job to decipher the
reality of these statements from the fact and the fact
in my I guess so fact is maybe a stretch
because then I was about to follow it up with
in my opinion. So again, I think when when coaches
say these things, it's our job to acknowledge, like this
is Asia's coach saying it, it's her former college coach

(30:47):
saying it down Staley alleging funny stuff is her opinion,
and anyone that is, you know, taking that to mean
that there's actually funny stuff going on. I think, listen
and if you think there's funny stuff going on in
the voting, and investigate that shit, right, it's like your journalists,

(31:07):
that's our job. But I think that I'll start there
is like these are her coaches saying these things the
same way. Again, Cheryl Reeve gets on her mic and
says her comments about her players, and so I think
from there, you've got to be able to stand on
your vote and your opinion about a player. And I

(31:29):
don't think it. I don't know. Maybe this is wrong
of me, but I'll just say it, like, I don't
think it's a bad thing for these fiery statements to
be out there. I really don't. I think it adds
to the storylines. It adds to kind of the competitiveness
and the back and forth not only between Asia and

(31:49):
Fi and Fee and At, but also like the coaches.
I think those are some of the most untold stories.
I like the reason between these coaches.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
I like the rivalries between the coaches. I like the feistiness,
I like the support of players. I think the specific
language of Dawn's to me is when you in a
sport where we have had historical conversations about black players
not getting enough shine, about the potential for voting even
to be impacted by subconscious or conscious bias, when you

(32:19):
allege that in a situation where that wouldn't be at
play at all, and where you do have deserving other
folks in the running for MVP to even claim that
funny stuff would have to be taking place in order
for her not to win. For me, becomes a sort
of boy you cried wolf situation. If there's a situation
where you do think someone isn't getting media attention, awards

(32:41):
otherwise because of the color of their skin or some
other reason, when you then trot it out later it's
something you've said before in a situation where she was
competing against other tremendous black women and other women who
had seasons that are worthy of having a conversation. I
think that's the line. To me, where I think it
goes from this is fun and competitive too. That's insulting

(33:02):
to say if Nafisi Kalier one in a fifty forty
ninety season, it must be because of funny stuff. Yeah,
I think winning a co award and then degrading a
player who also won instead of just saying I think
that Asia should have won it on her own. Frankly,
I don't think there's a competition there versus saying that
the other player is significantly less than I don't know why.

(33:23):
To me too, it feels like it's one step too
far in terms of supporting your own player.

Speaker 4 (33:29):
Good way do you put it that way? I could
see what you're saying in regards to Dawn's comments and
end that being a situation where down the line, then
it can become an issue if you're if you're being
vocal about something else. And I do do agree with
you when you put it in that context, especially because
to say that during a fifty to forty ninety season

(33:51):
if she wins, then it's like there's got to be
some conspiracy theory, like no, no, that's that's just not accurate.
What I'll say to Becky's comment is Becky and Cheryl
are both very known to the sarcastic little shit talkers.

(34:14):
And I say that as one of.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
My see see Cheryl Reeve, Emma Masiman pick the wrong team?

Speaker 4 (34:19):
Yeah yeah, And so you know, is there a line? Absolutely?
Is everyone's line different? Absolutely? And I think what what
Becky's statements could have done is spurred a team that
was already desk on the trajectory to win a fitth title.
You know, even more so you got to stand on
what you said.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
That's true.

Speaker 4 (34:39):
I think both Becky and Cheryl do.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
And and yeah, I've mentioned this before. I think maybe
even in an interview with you, where sometimes I find
myself sliding into I hope both teams have fun territory
and I don't want to be that person, and I
don't feel like women's sports needs to be like that.
But also I think for me, I'm always trying to
temper the fact that the rest of society is so

(35:02):
polluting the space that when the people within it add
to that, I'm like, oh, do we need to do that? Though?
And I know that's not what they're doing, and I
know that that's something within me, but like, I do
want to hold both things true, where like, yes, they
can hate each other, be competitive, talk shit, and I
don't like the idea of like some of what feels

(35:23):
a little bit like bullying sometimes from these coaches when
they actively, like yell at journalists in the press conference
of like who did you vote for? That's bullshit, Like
that's not how these awards work. It's a subject to
go based on personal opinion. If you don't want it
to be that, then do it based on numbers or
something or a computer otherwise I don't know. That sort
of exchange sometimes feels to me also like can't Asia

(35:45):
Wilson stand on her own? Does she need you bullying
reporters or yelling at them saying they made the wrong
decision to win and earn.

Speaker 4 (35:54):
It the last thing I'll say. And now I sound
like I'm in defense of these and I'm like, I'm
riding for Becky and Cheryl. This is again, but the
history of the w NBA voting, We've seen it in
the last couple of years, there have been these these
random votes that like someone voted Asia fourth in the

(36:19):
MVP vote when she absolutely should not have received a
fourth place.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
Rakia Jackson got to vote this year MVP, which all
respect to Rakia Jackson both.

Speaker 4 (36:30):
So if you're a coach and your respected voice, like
you know all these coaches we just named are, and
you know that history about the w NBA voting, and
you know the w n BA has, you know, an
odd history in a lot of regards officiating all these
different things, like where's the accountability factor?

Speaker 1 (36:51):
I agree, the difference between those yelling at someone for
making Asia fourth and then yelling at someone for like
voting for Fee instead or something right, rose context matter totally.

Speaker 4 (37:01):
And I let me just say I voted for Asia
in my AP vote. I didn't have a w NBA vote.
They took it away. I'm the audacity. I'm just joking
I obviously watched jees I switched out.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
Maybe you needed to establish in the new place.

Speaker 4 (37:18):
Before they okay, right, And I work for a business
outlet now, so maybe there was some We don't know
what Annie's going to be doing in her new role.
Either way, my vote was for Asia, and I stand
by that. If I had a WBA vote, I would
have I would have voted for Asia. But in my
opinion of Asia, there's no takeaway from the FISA. Again,

(37:38):
just at the top of this conversation, anybody else and
the FISA would have been the MVP given the year
that she had.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yeah, I'm I'm always trying to temper those feelings I
have because I do find myself veering sometimes into territory
for women's sports that I would never feel like in
men's But I do think it's because of all the
bullshits around Again, let's talk about Yeah, let's talk about
Asia's aces, because they ended the regular season on an
almost historic wind streak after a very rough start to
the season. What did you see change in them? And

(38:10):
beyond Sunday's ugly Game one loss. Are the win streak
Aces the real Aces?

Speaker 4 (38:15):
In your opinion, I think the moment or their ability
to sustain that through the end of the regular season
says a lot about what they can do this postseason.
What it also says is they were relying a lot
on Asia and Jackie Young, and so if you're an

(38:35):
opponent and you nullify those two players, well the Aces
need They need more from Chelsea, they need more from Jewel,
they need more from Dana Evans. And I think even
Dana said that in the postgame is that we know that,
and so if they can sustain that over that seventeen
game stretch, they can absolutely use that to close out

(38:59):
even win another title. And I think it would say
even more than some of the past titles have because
of the way they got this one done. And I
also think the adjustments. Again, I feel like the narrative
of this podcast is your ability to adjust. But I
think the adjustments made for them to rebound from the

(39:21):
first half of the season the way they did speaks
to again a mentality and what they can do through
this postseason.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
We got to take a quick break more with any
constable after this. Let's talk about the Connecticut Sun, because
you had some really good reporting over the summer about
the behind the scenes of that sale. Just to refresh
the slices. Back in August, you reported that the record

(39:50):
three hundred and twenty five million dollar offered that Celtics
minority owner Steve Paliuca made to purchase the team from
the Mohegan Tribe was brought to League Commissioner Kathy Engelbert,
but she never presented it to the WNBA's board of governors.
Now you're reporting indicated that the league was hoping to
force the Sun to sell to a buyer of the
league's choosing, most likely Houston, which was in the running
during the latest expansion draft process. And in the last

(40:13):
couple of weeks we've seen politicians get involved, Connecticut senators
and Attorney General issuing statements writing letters to Kathy Engelbert
criticizing the league's attempt to dictate the terms of a
potential sale. What was your biggest takeaway from what you
reported on this in the last few weeks and do
you have any updates.

Speaker 4 (40:30):
I think it's the change in the way sales are
obviously happening. There was a time in the WNBA, which
we're all familiar with, when franchises were desperate to find owners,
and once they did. Sales were pushed through with very
little pushback because again the effort was to keep franchises

(40:53):
alive versus what we're seeing now where there's more strategy
behind the expand and the sale of franchises. So when
it comes to that, the league has not been quiet
or reserved in what they've said about their ability to
influence a sale or them having full authority essentially over

(41:18):
a sale because it's a league matter. This is what
leaky hearing like. This is a league matter. A team
cannot just sell to an owner and subsequently move back.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
Which by the way, is common across professional leagues. Most
often the new owners have to be approved by the
existing owners and the league because you obviously don't want
to bring someone into this quote unquote fraternity or sorority
that isn't a part of the larger goals or plans
that being set. There's a big difference between approving ownership
and dictating ownership or the terms of a sale. It

(41:52):
sure feels like they're trying.

Speaker 4 (41:53):
To do here right. And I think the biggest question
that I have not gotten clarity from the league gone
because every time it's asked, it goes back to a
team doesn't have the right to sold to a franchise
and that's going to relocate it. Okay, we get that,
but why wouldn't the league approve a sale and subsequent

(42:15):
relocation to Boston.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
Why because then they're not double dipping. They're not getting
the cost of the sale and then the cost of
the expansion.

Speaker 4 (42:24):
And that's what they've inadvertently or not even so inadvertently revealed,
because if you go back to their original statement, it
mentioned Bill Chisholm by name. Their original statement when the
news of this broke with the with the Boston Globe,
their subsequent statement was, when the time is right Bill Chislm.

(42:47):
I'm paraphrasing here, but we talked to Bill Chishlm about
a franchise going to Boston, and what they were saying
there is, when the time is right and the team
can be operate under NBA ownership, we will grant an
expansion team here. And so again, from a business standpoint,
we've seen the success that's that's happened with the Golden

(43:08):
State Valkyries. There's clearly a model that they're operating with
in terms of what their hopes are for franchises and
expansion teams. However, when you consider the history of this
franchise and the history of the Houston comments, who we
could all assume would be brought back if this team
is sold to Houston, there's a question of is this

(43:31):
good business to move one franchise with so much history
to another city and then adopt the start that exists there.
And also, this fan base is very much connected to
the East Coast. So I think the question that the
league needs to answer is why wouldn't you approve a

(43:53):
sale that's on the table to Boston.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
Right and fundamentally too To do wrong by the owner
of the team and force them to take a lesser
deal after being steadfast owners during the rough times and
not allowing them to profit at the highest level now
is messed up. And then also to your point, if
they've got a person in mind in Boston in the future,
then they are truly trying to dictate every move as

(44:19):
opposed to an existing offer for a team that makes
more sense. They're issuing that in favor of some deal
they've sort of already made on the back end with
Chisholm totally.

Speaker 4 (44:30):
And but what I will say to that point is
the stance from the league is that this three hundred
and twenty five million is not a accurate evaluation of
what the franchise is worth, because that's the sale price
for a move to Boston. That's the sale price assuming

(44:52):
the team is bought and moved to Boston. So again,
I'm not a lawyer. I'm not you know, behind the
scenes in the conversations with Alan and co. With the league,
with the connecticuts on. And that's where legally the league
may be able to get away with doing that, because again,
sale and a subsequent move are two separate decisions. Both

(45:15):
have to be approved by the league. So while this
three twenty five is out there, it's out there under
the presumption that the team would be moved to Boston.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
And we understand how much expansion fees are. And so
while you don't want the to be trying to double
dip here, you also understand that they don't want to
lose out on that by having people die to work
around it. Okay, we're running out of time here, but
I have a couple of last things for you. I
want to ask you about your former beat, the Chicago Sky.
In the situation with Angel Reese, she criticized the team
and some of her teammates. She eventually apologized to the

(45:46):
locker room. She ended up sitting the final game of
the season with what they call the recurrence of the
back injuries she had been suffering from. But some rightfully
wondered if there was more to it. Let's put a
number on it first, just a number, no explanation. Percentage
likelihood she's in a Sky Jersey next season.

Speaker 4 (46:03):
This is just my opinion, not my reporting. Yep, my
opinion the likelihood of Angel being back in a sky
Jersey is between twenty and thirty percent.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
Wow. Okay, what did you make of her comments? Because
I want to just say that for me, her criticism
of the team facilities, their ability to get stars, all
of that rang true to me. And while I knew
that would frustrate the team, I was fine with that.
When she specifically named teammates and called out, for instance,
Courtney vanderslut the future plans with her and said there's

(46:33):
no one here worth keeping other than a couple, that
to me was the most fundamental violation of how you
publicly handle your stuff as a teammate, and I was
surprised how many people were willing to make apologies for that.
I think because we're so used to Angel being criticized
for things she shouldn't be criticized for that, now we're
sort of blanket apologizing for anything. And to me, that

(46:54):
felt like such a clear you don't do that, you
don't do that.

Speaker 4 (46:58):
Yeah, I actually just got to say, I really really
appreciate you asking me that question and asking me for
my opinion, because I have not given my opinion yet.
I wrote a story that was sourced with the opinions
of others around the league about how this could play out,
and that has again become Well, Annie thinks this, my

(47:20):
thought is very much in line with what you just said.
I've covered numerous stars who have forced their way out
of Chicago and done so and talked about the franchise
in the process in terms of what didn't exist there,
operational standards that were lacking. The difference there is. None
of those players publicly called out teammates in the process,

(47:45):
and I think, no matter what sport you're in, and
this was another This was another hard thing for me
to accept when I saw the follow ups from people
I have a ton of respect for. Was the the
comments about oh so if this was men's sports, we
wouldn't be batting an eyelash at this. That is fact
completely disagreeing, incorrect, factually incorrect. If you want to say

(48:10):
you don't got the sources, just say you don't got
the sources. But to be factually incorrect on a topic,
it's like, oh my god. It was like a dagger
to the soul because not only has it happened in
men's sports, it's happened in Chicago. Dwayne Wade and Jimmy
Butler got suspended for half a game, which to the
point I'm like, I was like, the Chicago skuy are

(48:30):
taking a page out of the Chicago Bulls book. Whether
or not they're right for that is an opinion, and.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
That's something people said to you half a game. What
is this high school?

Speaker 4 (48:39):
No?

Speaker 1 (48:39):
I mean, we've seen that in the NBA.

Speaker 4 (48:41):
We've literally seen it. And so my thing is, like,
I even saw someone compare angels comments about her teammates
to comments that Michael Jordan has made and that Kobe
Bryant has made. Another distinct difference between those those three players,
those two Kobe and Michael champions. Angel has yet to

(49:03):
win a championship in the WNBA. That's not to say
that she won't, but she's the second year player and
it's not even to say that her comments weren't accurate.
But those are comments you make in sports. It's like rule.
You make it in the locker room, you make it
to the face of your teammates, to your GM and

(49:24):
you know, publicly criticizing the franchise is one thing, but
naming your teammates, that's a completely different story. And what
I wish because I'd be lying to you if I
said some of the backlash on social media isn't hard
to take. And I just wish more of our colleagues
would call a thing a thing versus all the excuses

(49:49):
we start to make because it's women's sports.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Right well, and because it's her Angel, And I think
I understand the root of that, which is that we
are so seeped in the bullshit that came along with
A versus Caitlin and the over extension of so many
to criticize Angel for everything. And I think there is
a lot of racism, yeah, that is underlying all of that.

(50:12):
So the desire to defend her is natural. But I
think the problem is when she says something that across
every single sport and every single level we know is
not what to do to defend it, then, I think
is problematic. And I think Angel, even after giving comments
about this situation and how she apologized to her teammates,

(50:32):
she said, I just have to be better with my
language because I know it's not the message, it's the
messenger and understanding what I say can be taken any
kind of way. So I just have to really be
better and grow from this. She said their comments were misconstrued.
I don't think they were. I think they were taking
at face value. It's just that people didn't react well
to them. And so the idea that it's about her
being the messenger in this case, it's not. It's about

(50:53):
literally anyone who says that about their teammates is going
to be criticized for it.

Speaker 4 (50:56):
Yeah, And I think also, I don't even think think
Corney Vanderslut herself would negate the fact that what she's
coming back from is challenging, and she is at a
stage in her like Corney Vanderslout, is a realist. She's
she's not gonna lie to you about the fact that
she's coming back from an ACL injury she's also at

(51:17):
the latter point of her career. But that's not something
for your teammate to say in a public interview, because
the only person who could speak to her ability to
come back is Courtney Vanderslut herself. And then you have
you have this this fact of the matter in the
sense that Corney Vanderslut is a two time champion. She

(51:40):
is one of the most respected point guards in this league.
So not only by by making those comments, are you
are you putting yourself at odds with your own teammate,
but you're putting yourself at odds with people who have
played alongside this player and who can speak to again

(52:02):
her impacts on a team, et cetera.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
So well, and she said specifically, you know, we need
to come back with players who have won it and
get it. And it's like that is the person that
you just called that as not the person to move
forward with. Right. There was a lot of right conflict
even in the things she said right exactly.

Speaker 4 (52:19):
And I think again, Angel's a young player, and she's
she's built a reputation and an entire business on being herself,
and that is a strong opinionated, successful too player. Those
all those things can be true, but this lesson I

(52:40):
think was more so her needing to learn when to
pick her spots and where to say those things, because
again it's just code and sports. You don't talk about
your teammates in the press.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
Yeah, for sure. Well it'll be really interesting to see
what happens with the Sky and with the Angel. Of course,
we're we looking for to the CBA deadline, which is
a little over a month from now, so we'll probably
have to have you back for visit number four. We'll
start getting the four Timers blazer sewn and ready for me.
Thanks so much, as always for the time Annie.

Speaker 4 (53:14):
Stun In time, Thanks for having me, guys, stun In
stun In.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
We have to take another quick break when we come back.
Spooky season has nothing on unrivaled Hint season. Welcome back, slices.
We love that you're listening, but we want you to
get in the game every day too, So here's our
good game play of the day. I mentioned in a

(53:41):
previous episode that some slices have requested a way to
discuss the show and connect with each other beyond some
of the Reddit threads that have popped up in response
to specific episodes. Or interviews. Now, we really want to
make this happen for you, but with such a bifurcated
social media space, we're not really sure where and how
all of y'all like to connect with. Discard be the
preferred space. Slack, a more intentional and organized reddit channel.

(54:05):
Let us know what you think. We're taking your thoughts
and ideas. We really want to make this a community
where you all can talk to each other in addition
to talking to us, So whatever suggestions you have, we
are open to hit us up on email Good game
at wondermedianetwork dot com or leave us a voicemail at
eight seven two two four fifty seventy and don't forget
to subscribe, rate and review. It's really easy, y'all. Watch

(54:28):
Unrivaled Hints season rating six straight hours of news drops
thanks to the Unrivaled insta feed review. It's here. It's
finally here. As I mentioned earlier, Unrivaled season two player
announcements are getting rolled out, with a few returning players
already posted, and then soon the hints will begin for
the new editions. Whoever runs Unrivals Instagram account will be

(54:50):
back to their cryptic ways. And I had so much
fun trying to guess which players we'd see suiting up
for season one that I'm stoked to find out who
all the league's newest players will be for season two,
especially with those two new teams, Breeze and Hive. It's
super dope that unrival social media team was not only
able to generate copious amounts of buzz last season with
all those individual player announcements, but that a community of

(55:13):
hoopeads who are also hint fiends and puzzle people got
such a kick out of all the reveals. I expect
plenty more gems and robust discussion in the comments section
as all the new Unrivaled players are hinted at and
then revealed. Maybe I'll even see some of you slices
in the replies. Now it's your turn, rate and review.
Thanks for listening, See you tomorrow. Good game, Annie, Good game,

(55:36):
Kansas City. Current you leagues that just announce player signings
without making us do logic puzzles or giving us fun hints.
Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You
can find us on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts or
wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network.

(55:58):
Our producers are Alex Azi and Misha Jones. Our executive
producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutder.
Our editors are Emily Rutterer, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch and
Gianna Palmer. Our associate producer is Lucy Jones. Production assistant
from Avery Loftus and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Host

Sarah Spain

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}This Is Why You Have Exit Interviews with Annie Costabile