April 3, 2025 • 51 mins
Oh slices, this one is special. Presented by the all-new Nissan Armada, former Stanford women’s basketball head coach Tara VanDerveer and former Notre Dame head coach Muffet McGraw join Sarah to reminisce about their head-to-head battles during March Madness, hooping against each other in staff games at Cathy Rush Basketball Camp back in the day, the pros and cons of the changing landscape of women’s hoops, and the things they wish their younger selves had understood about life.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to a very special episode of Good Game with
Sarah Spain. Proudly sponsored by Nissan, The all new Nissan
Armada is the most powerful suv Nissan has ever made.
Rugged and gritty, but also luxurious. It's a premium vehicle
made for adventurers who are ready to conquer whatever's in
front of them, just like the coaches and athletes that
battle it out each year in the NCAA Women's Basketball Tournament.
(00:22):
Two of those coaches, all time greats of the game,
will join me today. It's Thursday, April third, and on
today's show, we'll be talking to former Stanford coach Tara
Vanderveer and former Notre Dame coach Muffett McGraw, two of
the winningest coaches in college basketball history. Over the last decade.
They got to know each other pretty well in March,
with their teams meeting four times in the NCAA Tournament,
(00:42):
all in the span of five years. Notre Dame one
two of those matchups, in twenty fifteen and twenty nineteen,
while Stanford won in twenty sixteen and twenty seventeen. We'll
find out what they remember about their four face offs
in the NCAA tournament brainstorm, how to get more women
into coaching, and talk about the pros and cons of
the changing women's game from increased investment to nil and.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
The transfer portal.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I caught up with them earlier this week ahead of
the Final four this weekend in Tampa, Plus a portal shakeup,
more proof that knees should be banned, and Team Good
Game looks to take a w from anel. It's all
coming up right after this welcome back slices. Here's what
(01:26):
you need to know today. Let's start with some news
that's shaking up both the college and pro hoops landscapes.
Notre Dame's Olivia Miles, who was widely expected to be
the number two pick in this year's WNBA draft, is
instead holding off on turning pro and entering the transfer portal.
ESPN's sham Sharani was the first to report the news
on Monday. Miles has one year of college eligibility remaining,
(01:47):
as she sat out all of last year with a
knee injury. After Notre Dames lost to TCU in the
Sweet sixteen, Miles hinted that she had a lot on
her mind.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Quote, I love college.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
I think I've outgrown it a little bit, though, so
that makes my decision tough for to stay. It's comfortable
a place where you have security. The W the volatility
is up and down.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
So I don't know. I'm deciding between a bunch of factors.
End quote.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
So let me briefly add some context here that I
think matters. One, the Irish stumbled down the stretch and
then they got bounced in the sweet sixteen, so Miles
probably has a bad taste in her mouth about their finish. Two,
she wasn't healthy down the stretch, so her numbers suffered
and she couldn't be herself out there. Her March stats
were frankly not good. So maybe she wants to pull
a Haley van Lit, find somewhere she can thrive and
(02:31):
go out feeling better both in terms of personal and
team success. And or she's looking at the CBA negotiations
going on in the W. Now this is important because
she knows if she enters next year's draft, her rookie
deal will be under a new CBA that's expected to
pay players way more, and that's a three year deal
for rookies with a fourth year option, so it would
(02:52):
be at a much higher rookie salary than the one
players coming out this year are going to make. Now
the transfer part of this is more surprising to me
than the sticking around. But maybe there's more to the
story about why Notre Dame faltered late in the season,
or maybe more to know about miles relationship with the
coaching staff or teammates or the school we might find out.
Important to note as well, just because she's in the
transfer portal, that doesn't mean she can't return to the Irish.
(03:15):
Miles does retain the right to stick around if she
doesn't like her options. More college hoops. The twenty twenty
four to twenty five Naysmith Award ceremony on Wednesday was
a West Side party, with USC star ju Ju Watkins
taking home National Player of the Year honors, UCLA center
Lauren Betts winning Defensive Player of the Year, and UCLA
coach Corey Close.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Earning Coach of the Year honors.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
The five finalists for the Wooden Award, given annually to
the most outstanding college basketball player in the country, were
also announced on Wednesday. There are some familiar names, USC's
ju Ju Watkins, UCLA's Lauren Betts, plus Yukon's page. Beckers
Texas is Madison Booker and Notre Dames Hanna Hidalgo. The
award will be handed out on April eleventh. Becker's previously
won in twenty twenty one, becoming the first freshman to
(03:59):
receive the honor to the NWSL. Gotham FC announced on
Wednesday that Tyrna Davidson sustained an ACL tear in her
left knee in last Friday's game against the Houston Dash.
She's been placed on the season ending injury list. It's
devastating news to hear, especially since Davidson previously tore her
right ACL in twenty twenty two, an injury that sidelined
(04:19):
her for a year and kept her out of contention
for the twenty twenty three World Cup. Tyrna posted on
social in part quote in matching scars out my left
ACL and quote the beauty of life is its unpredictable nature.
While I've found myself on the adverse side of this unpredictability,
at the moment, I know this experience will be another
colorful chapter of my journey. I have no doubt this
(04:42):
year will bring me unexpected joys despite this setback, end
quote typical Tyrna handling things with grace, intelligence and perspective.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
We're sending you our best and hoping for a smooth recovery. Tea.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
More injury news, this one in women's basketball. The New
York Liberty announced that guard Benijel Lany Hamilton had surgery
in March to repair an acute meniscus injury in her
left knee. Landey Hamilton played two games in Unrivaled before
sustaining the injury for the Liberty. She's expected to be
out for five to six months, which will keep her
out of most, if not all, of the twenty twenty
five WNBA season.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
This is a real.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Bummer for Benijo, who missed six weeks last season to
a knee injury and also missed time in twenty sixteen
when she tore her ACL playing for the Chicago Sky. Obviously,
anytime you play basketball, you're at risk for injury, and
Unrivaled is no different. Something players certainly have to think
about when they sign on to playoff season ball.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
More hoops news.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Longtime coach now Fortner announced on Monday that she's retiring,
effective immediately. Fortner spent the last six years as head
coach of Georgia Tech, following stops at Purdue and Auburn.
Fortner also previously served as the Indiana Fevers head coach
from two thousand and one till two thousand and three.
She also led Team USA to a gold medal at
the two thousand Sydney Olympics. In a statement, Fortner said
it wasn't an easy decision to step away. Quote Georgia
(05:55):
Tech is a gold mine as an institution and an
athletics department, and is well position to compete for acc
and national championships in women's basketball. That makes it very
hard to step away. But for me, after spending much
of the last thirty plus years on the sideline, I
just feel.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
That it's time end.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Finally, we're sending congratulations to Alex Morgan and her husband
Servando Carrasco on the birth of their baby boy, Enzo.
Morgan announced her pregnancy and retirement from professional soccer last
September and played her final game days later. Too early
to get that kid in some cleats, speaking of actually
has their daughter Charlie been signed by an NWSL club yet?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
We're going to take a quick break when we come back.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Hall of famers, Tara Vanderveer and Muffett McGraw. Welcome back
to this very special episode of Good Game with Sarah Spain,
presented by Nissan and the all new Nissan Armada and SCUV.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
That's luxurious and tough.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Speaking a tough, Let's get to my conversation with two
of the toughest coaches in women's college basketball history, Muffett
McGraw and Tara Vanderveer.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Joining us now.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
She was the head women's basketball coach at Stanford from
nineteen eighty five until her retirement in twenty twenty four.
A three time Naysmith Coach of the Year and eighteen
time Pack twelve Coach of the Year, she led the
Cardinal to fourteen final fours and three NCAA Championship wins
in ninety, ninety two and twenty twenty one. She's one
of only nine NCAA women's basketball coaches to win over
nine hundred games, one of ten NCAA Division One coaches
(07:22):
women or men to win a thousand games. Her twelve
hundred and sixteen wins make her the second winning as
head coach and men's or women's college basketball history, behind
only Gino Oriama, Who's snuck by this year. She coached
Team USA to a gold medal at the ninety six
Olympics and was inducted into the Women's Basketball Hall of
Fame in O two and the Naysmith Basketball Hall of
Fame in twenty eleven. The court at Stanford's Maples Pavilion
(07:42):
was named in her honor.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
It's Tara Vanderveer.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Thanks for joining us, Tara, my pleasure, Shara joining us again.
She's a basketball analyst for ESPN and the ACC Network
and was the head women's basketball coach at Notre Dame
from nineteen eighty seven until her retirement in twenty twenty.
A three time Naysmith Coach of the Year, she led
her team to nine Final four, seven championship game appearances
and two national Championship wins in twenty one and twenty eighteen.
(08:05):
She was inducted into the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame
in twenty eleven and the Naysmith Basketball Hall of Fame
in twenty seventeen. She's the first female coach at Notre
Dame to have a statue in her honor.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
It's Muffett McGraw. Welcome back, Muffett thiks.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
Sarah, those numbers kind of pale in comparison to one
Tara Vanderverer.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
They are both far too long for me to say
the full bio. I had to do a lot of
editing to just get to the very best up. I
am so excited to have you both here. I am
so excited to talk about your memories from your tournament battles,
how we can get more women into college coaching, and
so much more. But I want to start with those
meetings in March, because I think it's so rare and
(08:42):
unique to have two Hall of Fame incredible coaches on
to share what their perspective was during those meetings, And
I want to start with the first one. Twenty fourteen,
twenty fifteen season Sweet sixteen matchup. Muffett, your Notre Dame
team was thirty six and three overall, fifteen and one
in the ACC, won the ACC Tournament, Jewel Lloyd, Brionna Turner,
(09:02):
Lindsay Allen, Tara your Stanford team twenty six and ten
overall thirteen and five, and PAC twelve play winners of
the PAC twelve Tournament, Amber Orange, Lily Thompson, Bonnie Samuelson,
Kaylee Johnson leading the way on that roster. Notre Dame
is a number one seed. They win over number four
Stanford eighty one to sixty. Muffett, what do you remember
about that game plan?
Speaker 4 (09:23):
You know, I love playing against Tar because she is
just such a terrific strategist in the game. And I
don't remember exactly what our game plan was. When you
have players like Jewel Lloyd, you expected they're going to
just step up and play really well. I know she's
really far to guard, but Lindsay Allen came out was
a fantastic game that night also, so Lindsay and Jewel.
You know, Tar, you gotta win with guards in the
(09:44):
NCAA tournament, and I had some pretty good guards that year.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, Jewelloyd seventeen of her twenty one points in the
second half of that game. Do you remember being on
the sideline and trying different things to stop her or
figuring out how you could try to make somebody else
beat you down the stretch?
Speaker 3 (10:00):
I can. I can picture some of the misery of
that game. But they were just that good. They were
They were just that good. And you know, Joe Lloyd,
it wouldn't matter who you were putting honor, and you know,
our team was you know, I think that our team
was still a young team at that point and we
were It's kind of weird that we were in Notre
(10:22):
Dame's bracket like so many times, yeah, in the beginning
of my career, but way at the end and uh
they again, Muffett does a great job with their team.
They had really talented team, and you know, there there
was just no beating him that year.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Muffett.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
You mentioned Tara being a great strategist. When you're entering
a game against a coach that you've had a good
look at, they've been at it for a while, even
if you haven't faced each other in the tournament before,
do you try to get ahead of what you think
they're gonna do. Usually this is what Tara does here,
or usually this is how they counteract here. Does it
make it any easier to have some proof of concept
from a coach?
Speaker 4 (10:59):
You know, I think coaches like Tara they change things frequently.
I think there's some coaches out there like, we're a
Manda man team and we're only gonna do this and
this is what we do on offense. I think with
Tara is like I want to win, and here's how
best to guard the seams, so you get a good
look at how you should be guarded. And I wish
we've played earlier in the years so I could learn,
you know, throughout the year, like I got to fix
(11:19):
all these things instead of waiting for the NCAA tournament.
But just you never really knew exactly what to expect.
But you just knew that they were gonna be a
great rebounding team, they were going to be a great
defensive team. And we've run a lot of the same
stuff on offense, you know, variations of the Princeton offense,
so a lot of similarities.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Tara, you mentioned you had a young team that year.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
If you think just looking at the talent matchup that
your squad doesn't probably match up as well, do you
try to get more creative, maybe a little gimmicky and
some things to see if you can change the odds.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Well, I don't think the NCAA tournament's are time to
try to new things. You got to kind of go
what's been working for for you. You're not gonna You're
not gonna do gimmicky things. You're gonna do what's work,
what works for you, And I would say what we
would try to do is I will say play scouting,
report defense, So we will you know, look at the numbers.
You can watch energy, you know, and you have to
(12:15):
kind of pick your poison. You you know, you have
to know kind of who to guard and who to guard,
how you have to double, you know, depending upon their
inside game. And but when you have the combination of
great players and great coaching, you're you're up a crick
without a paddle. That was that, That was what was
in that situation.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
So you meet in the very next season in the
sweet sixteen again, twenty fifteen sixteen muff. At this time
your team's thirty three and two overall sixteen and ozer
one ACC Play winners of the ACC Tournament. This roster
Breonna Turner, Lindsay Allen, Madison Cable, and you add some youngsters.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
In Ari Gay Gumbawalle and Marina maybriy Tar.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Your Stanford team twenty seven and eight, fourteen and four
and PAC twelve play. You finished it at tie for third,
but you got an at large bid to the tournament.
You're led again by Lilly Bonnie and Kayley, but also
so Erica McCall. You as a number four seed, upset
number one Notre Dame ninety to eighty four and lexingting.
That ends a twenty six game winning streak for the
Irish Tara.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
What do you remember about that day?
Speaker 3 (13:12):
I probably should have done my homework, and I know
we're gonna go back through all the game. You know, again,
sometimes you just you have a good game and different
people step up. And when you're a number four, and
maybe you played a team the last year, I don't
remember anything specific about that game.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
But let me jog your memory because I can almost
guess that Muffett might remember these two numbers. Your team
shot fifty five point nine percent overall and fifty five
percent from three. You mentioned sometimes you just have a
good game. That's a pretty good game, Uh, Muffett, What
do you remember about trying to stop them when they're
shooting that?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Well?
Speaker 4 (13:48):
You know, I think we had the lead for a
lot of the time during that game, and we just
could not defensively figure out a way to guardment where
we were a zone team back then, we of course
had to go Amanda man I had a couple of
really weak defenders of him, specifically, I don't want to
mention any names we show. We're getting out on this
get out of the three point shooters, and you know,
it came right down to the wire. I think we
(14:08):
had a shot to win it right at the end. Yeah,
the suck up.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Blocked well to your point, you actually were down by
as many as fifteen points, but then you got it
to a three point game with two minutes left, and
you really had an opportunity to undo what had been
a tough game for your team for most of it.
But then, man, just Erica McCall twenty seven points, tart.
What's it like to watch someone have their career high
in a game.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
That's that important?
Speaker 3 (14:34):
You know, what's what's really fun and for someone like
Erica McCall is for her to have a great game
because she is just a great person. When you have
a player on your team that is so special as
a person, as a teammate, you you know, it's doubly
rewarding as a coach when you see them perform, especially
(14:56):
at a big stage. There could be no one that
is happier or you know, a better teammate than Erica.
So I was just really thrilled for her, and she
struggled like making the adjustment to college basketball and kind
of find her way. And you know, obviously she had
a good game that particular game.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
She said that the team was calling themselves party crashers
beforehand because they knew what a great team Notre Dame
had Muffett. You'd won twenty seven straight games that had
been decided in single digits or overtime, hadn't lost a
single digit margin since twenty twelve.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
That's pretty wild. That's a long stretch to go of
being clutch.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
You know, I wonder why I accepted the invitation to
join this little podcast right now. Oh my gosh, like
bringing up those memories, like I clearly remember the end
of that game, and you know, it's interesting about the
end of that game. We went to a rique Ogu Muwalian.
She was young, she was a young player, and she
was the one I had confidence in to take that
last shot. And you know, we ran and played it.
(15:58):
We'd run quite a few times, and Erica McCall just
made a great plight block in the shot. But it
was it was it was a shame that we had
to play them back to back and then again, you know,
a couple of years later.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Well, I hate to move on to the next year
and rub it in some more, but this is really good.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
It's good to talk to very.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Successful people about times when things didn't work out. We're
so used to talking about the wins, but you can't
win every time. The next year, twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen,
you meet again, this time in the Elite eight.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Buffett thirty three and four, fifteen and.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
One in the ACC won the regular season and the
ACC tournament for the four straight year. You got a
Rique Marina, Brianna Lindsay and a freshman Jackie Young. Tara's
Stanford team thirty two and six, fifteen and three in
the PAC twelve won the PAC twelve tournament. You got McCall, Samuelson,
Brittany McPhee on that roster. Youngsters Alana Smith and dj
A Carrington joined the party for that one. Number two
(16:49):
Stanford wins a nail bier seventy six, seventy five. This
was number one seed, Notre Dame's first loss, and that
lead eight with you at the hell Muffet.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
This was a tough one. What stands out to you
about that one? That one's real type.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Yeah, I've obviously put that one right out of my mind.
We you know, I think we were nine and one
in games to go to the fun of four and yeah,
I really I've forgotten about that one. I've I've tried
to forget about it, and I think I was successful
in doing so successful.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Tara might remember that they were down by sixteen points.
They had an absolutely disastrous second where you did switch
from zone to man and they were really having trouble scoring.
But then the Cardinal outscored you twenty four to twelve
in the third, which set it up to be a
real game. Brittany McFee had nine in the fourth, twenty
seven overall. What do you remember about Brittany McFee in
(17:39):
that one, Tara?
Speaker 3 (17:41):
You know what I remember is Erique being a tremendous
talent and no garter. And you know, I think that
when you have when you're in the locker room at
halftime and you're getting beat like a drum, you know,
when someone says i'll garter, you know you're just like, okay,
that you respect someone that will give it a try.
And again, I think that it was really unfortunate that
(18:03):
you have teams that have the equal ability to go
to the final four, and we again end up in
the same bracket, and that game was the one that
you know, we were down, we got some momentum, we
started hitting some shots people. You know, I just we
we ran some a couple of plays here and there.
There's some turnovers and we did we got the momentum
(18:25):
at the end, and we're really fortunate to win the game.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
You mentioned halftime.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Did you sort of throughout your career have a general
approach to how to rally a team when you're down
big at the half or was it really dependent on
which players were in the room and what they better
responded to.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Well, this particular halftime was we were we were stuck
in the mud. We were we looked awful. I was
going down the hall to the halftime and Erica McCall
went running by and to the coaches are there, and
she goes, we got them right where we want them,
And I'm thinking, what the hell game is? She and so.
(19:05):
But but I think that that's where, you know, your
team leadership really makes a big difference. And I think
it would agree that when you have great team leaders,
you know, they never give up, they work really hard,
and you know, I hope that this not reminiscing necessarily
about games, but when with Muffett's team, you know, both
(19:26):
she and I have coach teams that have won national championships.
It's more like, what what are the things that what
are the things that you need to win a national championship?
And you know, we didn't win that year. Actually we
were up against South Carolina when we went on to
the final four, we were up against South Carolina and
Carlie Samilinson got hurt and that big We're up seven,
(19:47):
I think or nine a half time. But you know,
when you're that close, like when you have these teams
that are this close, little things just have to go right.
You have to keep people healthy. You can't have fouls.
I mean, you know, you look this year with Juju
get hurt. So it's not it's not really what happened
in those games so much, but what you know, how
(20:07):
do you keep like how does how did Muffett like
keep getting your team back to the final four year
after year and winning and getting the championship game. It's
it's what you're teaching every day. It's the good kids
that you have on your team. It's the leadership on
your team. And I think those are the things that
are much more important than you know what what we
remember maybe from those regular games.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yeah, for sure. I mean clearly it's about the longevity.
And we've talked on this show before about how do
you as a coach get your players through the understanding
that they can do everything right, but it can be
a missed call, it can be a ball off your
foot that goes to the other team at the end.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
I mean that happened yesterday for LSU right in front
of Kim's bench. She was going nuts. It was clearly
off the other team. And you know, but that happens.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
It's basketball, right, There's only so much that's in your control.
So Muffett, when you're either starting a tournament run with
the team or maybe in the midst of the really
tough games, how do you communicate to them to just
be in charge of what they can be in charge of?
Speaker 4 (21:04):
You know, my thing in the tournament was always we're
going to do it exactly the same way we've been
doing it all year long. If you weren't on the
team bus, you didn't travel with us, you weren't traveling
with us in the final four, you weren't eating team
meals with us. Our team was doing exactly the same thing.
So I wanted them to feel like, we've done this before.
This is how we prepared. There's nothing new, no flashy things. No.
I never let the media in my locker rooms because
(21:26):
I'm not giving a big huddle of time, you know,
big cheerleading speech. You know, we're just saying, hey, this
is what we need to do, kind of based on
facts and knowing your team. You know, I think letting them.
I kind of stayed away from them because I was
usually a wreck. I mean I'm like, I'm thinking of
everything that could go wrong. One thing I did really
well was catastrophized the situation. I mean I could find
(21:47):
something that was going to go wrong at any moment.
So I was like, you guys, go over there. I'm
gonna be over here and worrying.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
I'll see.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
I love it. I kind of did this the opposite.
I would say, this is an omen something would happen.
I see, this is a good omen. So if we
had one time we had like our bus broke down,
you know, and then the next time I told the
bus driver, I said stall the bus, because you know,
when the bus broke down and we did so well,
so looking for good things that you know are are
(22:19):
this this is our year, this is this.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Is what we can do it or manufacturing them if
it's required. I want to get to some bigger picture questions.
I think you're right, Tara, it's about approach. But there's
one last meeting I just want to touch on. You
actually avoided each other for a year. It was a
good year for Notre Dame. Muffett and company won it
all in twenty seventeen eighteen. We all remember a rique
shot that was just one of my favorite favorites of
all time.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
But then you meet again the next year.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
You had again in the same region area twenty eighteen
nineteen in the Sweet sixteen. This is your final meeting
in the tournament, Muffett. Your team's thirty five and four overall,
fourteen and two in the ACC. You get an at
large bit because you get second in the tourney. You
still got Arik Brianna, Marina Jackie and senior Jessica Shepherd
steps up.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Tara.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
You we were thirty one and five, fifteen and three
in the Pac twelve. You won the Pac twelve tournament.
You got Alana Smith dejon A Keana Williams, Maya Dodson,
and you got the freshman Hall sisters Lexi and Lacy
who are now on the team. Number one seed Notre
Dame gets the win eighty four to sixty eight over
number two Stanford.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Do you remember that one? Muffett?
Speaker 4 (23:16):
That one I remember. I remember because we played in
Chicago and we had such a great Notre Dame crowd.
It was green everywhere and we had I think it
was close to a sellout, if not a sellout. That
was an exciting game. I remember because we had some
role players come off the bench and make some big shots.
When I think we were starting to get a little tight,
and I had a player, Abby Prohaska came in. It
(23:39):
just made a great driving layup, but it just sort
of made everybody relax. So I do remember winning that
game in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Yeah, Arique again twenty one points, Jackie Young twenty five points,
ten rebounds in that one, and then Keanu Williams had
a great game for stan Ford twenty points in the
los Djona had eighteen. Notre was ten of thirty nine
in the first half, but then they went to outscore
Stanford twenty six thirteen and the third and then ended
(24:07):
up going on a run late. So another game where
it's kind of like Tara, your team was in it
and then that last late run from the from the
Irish ends up being ends up being the difference. How
do you strategize down the stretching games of like when
do I let my players figure this out?
Speaker 2 (24:23):
When do I call a time out?
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Are you trying to get it at the beginning of
when the blood letting starts, or how do you strategize?
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Well, in a game like that, you don't want to
let the second half get away from you. But at
the same time, I don't know if Muffett did this,
but with the ability to advance the ball, you if
you can keep it close, you want to have that,
you know, a couple of those in your pocket so
that you can advance the ball. So if you know
(24:50):
but you can't, I'm sure I kind of let you know,
took time out, and you know, if you're going to
go down, if you're down fifteen or so, you know,
no sense in saving them. But you know, if it's
within a I think five to six point game, then
I'm saving timeouts and hoping that you know, we can
keep it close. And with the ability to advance the ball,
(25:11):
which I think makes women's basketball so exciting. I don't
know why the men are not playing quarters and advancing it,
but it really you're always in it, you know, you can.
You can get a lot of possessions with in the
last thirty seconds, with that ability to take a time
out and advance, get a shot, foul, get a shot,
you know, advance, get a shot foul again.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
So I think it's a big decision when you call
those timeouts. And I think when you're watching games now,
you'll see some runs early in the game and you think, man,
they could have used the time out, but they're trying
to save them. And I think the balance for me
was always young team versus veteran team. You know, veteran
team's gonna be able to figure it out on their own,
but a young team sometimes you just got to use it.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
In the first half, we have to take a quick break.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
More with Tara and Muffett in a minute. Welcome back
to this very special episode of Good Game with Sarah Spain,
presented by Nissan and the all new Nissan Armada. Now
back to my conversation with Muffett McGraw and Tara Vanderveer.
You know, I'm curious some longtime college coaches seem to
(26:12):
have great relationships and others not so much. So I'm wondering, Muffett,
did you intentionally or maybe even subconsciously coach differently against
coaches that you didn't like. No, don't pull the starters,
beat the brakes of them.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
I was just selling civil the other day. When we
beat Connecticut in the semi final in twenty eighteen and
went on to win the championship in an exciting game
against Mississippi State, I only ever watched the Connecticut game
again because I just enjoyed those rivalries with Connecticut and
I enjoyed beating them, So when you know, whenever we
did beat them, it was it was always a lot
(26:51):
more fun. But I don't think I don't think I
coached any different. I think, you know, it was it
was nice to be the underdog sometimes I'm playing Connecticut.
A lot of times we were at the underdog.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Yeah, Tara, how about you?
Speaker 3 (27:04):
You know, I think one of the things that I
think I was really fortunate and I would probably think
of it would say the same, is that you know,
like I grew up, I was at basketball camp with
Muffett at Kathy Rush basketball camp way back in the day.
So a lot of the coaches that I grew up
playing against were actually my friends. And you know, I
don't know that a lot of coaches can say that
other coaches are their friends now with all that's going
(27:27):
on with the portal and the poaching and you know,
all that kind of thing, and I think that that's
something that's really lacking from the game of basketball, you know,
something that was really special that we you know, we
would see each other on the road, and you know,
I don't feel like I didn't ever dislike any of
the coaches, and I never would ever run the score
(27:47):
up because that would risk your own players being hurt.
And I I don't think it's healthy for our game.
You know, if you win by twenty, that's okay. Anything
over thirty to me is rubbing it. And I never
like a thirty point or more for anyone. You know,
when I see these games that are, you know, forty
(28:07):
fifty point games, I don't think that's healthy for our
sport or for the young people that are playing. We
want to encourage people.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
To play, so not to mention that's a real opportunity
to put some people in that you never know because
of injury or otherwise. Mike need later in the season
and need to have been in a game against some
top competition and some some other teams.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Hey, I want to make a side note.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
I liked you know.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
Oh yeah, it was just fun to beat them.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I didn't assume it meant you didn't like him, but
I understood that there was a rivalry there, and it
define to beat the top dog.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Did you guys have a bet on Philly cheese steaks
or something there, you know, Philadelphia?
Speaker 4 (28:41):
Yeah, we should have. I mean, we know how to
talk to each other.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Philly.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
They have their own language, so we never got upset
with each other.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah. Is Philly the one that always says Yin's Or
is that Pittsburgh?
Speaker 2 (28:52):
That's Pittsburgh.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
That's Pittsburgh. Yeah, we're like you guys.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yeah, I want to hear more about playing together at
Camp Muffett.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
What do you remember about that?
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Oh my gosh, yeah I remember that was I was
still coaching high school and then an assistant at Saint Joe's,
so Tar was, Uh, she was a head coach at
that time, and I was just thinking Wow. She came
a long way to go to this camp and it
was a coaching camp. It was a no but we
would have staff games. You know, we play after the
kids were done and you know, you already worked like
(29:22):
a twelve hour day and then you're like, man, let's
get the games going. You know this it was just
so fun.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
The games were outside on like you know, hardcourt, Like yeah,
you know, it was hot and it was hot. I
remember like one time it was so hot we had
to take kids into the pool so they didn't, you know,
have exhaustion. And I mean it was it was fun,
but it was work and I was you know, there
were times I think before I met Muffett though, I
(29:49):
was I was roommates with like Debbie Ryan or Mary
and Stanley, and I'm a little bit I'm older than Muffett,
but you know, she would she she was a great
player when she played. Was your teammate at Saint Joe's.
It came to camp too. Do you remember there was
there was a you kind of were not you were
kind of the same build.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
Yeah, Mary Sue Gerty was one.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Yeah, you guys were teared up in the pickup.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Games, you know, Oh, that sounds like fun games.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
With Carol blas Showski. I mean there were some I'm
telling you, there's some hoopers that were playing in these games.
It was fun.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
I can't tell you how much I missed just playing
basketball all day, Like it didn't matter if it was
outside the asphalt or if you had like an aau
and you had four games in the same day in
a gym with no ac and your body still worked,
and you could do it all day long.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Like what a dream that was.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
I don't know that. I don't know that young players
loved the game in the way that I feel like
I love the game. I mean I was crazy about
playing all the time. I didn't have I didn't have
nil of course, I didn't have a scholarship. I bought
my own shoes, you know. I mean it was just
but going to the gym and playing pick up or
like at camp at camp, at our Stanford camp, we
(30:58):
had three courts going and we played to midnight and
winners got the middle court, you know, and it was
a big deal and you were playing with all the
staff people. It was fun. And I don't know that
young players, what do you think, MOFE. Do they enjoy
playing as much as we did.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
You know, I don't even think they care if they
win in AU. I don't think they shouldn't even bother
keeping score.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, I wonder there's a couple of reasons for that.
I wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
It's always hard to make generalizations about everybody, But I
do think number one, when you insert the nil and
the money and the stress and the pressure, it's great
in the sense of helping professionalize and offer opportunity, but
it's also hard because it does make it about that sometimes,
or there is this added pressure of if I don't
get this while I get this deal, or that kind
of thing. But I also think I wonder about generationally
(31:44):
what it meant to be allowed to play sport, to
be embodied, to be free out on a court in
the seventies.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
And eighties versus now.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Right, there's an entitlement to it now, fifty plus years
after Title nine. Of like, of course playing basketball, But
I wonder if when you guys were growing up, it
felt more like against the rules or this this is
my identity because it's something I care so much about
that not all other girls and women do.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Well.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
There were definitely stereotypes I mean it was always me
and nine guys down at the playground. Yeah, I mean
I was always the only girl, and I think that
really served me well for the future to break into
this men's world of sports. And I think that there
was a lot of things said. We were called tomboys,
you know, there was like name calling, and it just
(32:35):
it just wasn't socially acceptable at the time. So we did.
We fought a lot of areas. Title line had just
been announced, but it wasn't really put into effect yet.
I mean, we were pretty lucky. We had a team.
My team is Saint Joe's first team ever because of
Title nine and you know tours, right, We bought our
own shoes. We didn't have we don't have practice clothes,
(32:55):
you know, we drove ourselves to games. There was a
lot of things that we had to do for ourselves
back then that these kids now, you know, you just
want to say, you have no idea, how good you
have it?
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Yeah, I agree, although sometimes that for whatever reason, that
self determination kind of pushes you to care more about
something than when it's either handed to you or someone
else wants you to do it, which is maybe more
the case now with so many people set to benefit
from girls that are at great at basketball. You know, Muffett,
you mentioned it helped you sort of in this industry.
Last time you were on, we played your now pretty
infamous speech about the importance of hiring women assistants. You
(33:27):
started exclusively having female assistant coaches in twenty twelve, Tara,
and you're twenty sorry, thirty nine years at Stanford. You
never once had a male assistant coach in your couple
stops before Stanford. Even then you hired just one. And
I would love to hear what both of you would
do first if you were put in charge tomorrow of
increasing the number of female coaches in college basketball, Like,
what would be your very first move tar that you
(33:48):
think would help address that?
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Well? I think that, you know, giving women the opportunity
I always encourage them to like work at basketball camps,
to volunteer, to you know, not feel like you you know,
there's a lot of opportunities now because you're you can
have what total of six people on your staff, and
there's there's a lot of opportunities to hire women and
if there's someone that and to really outwork people. I'll
(34:13):
just tell you a quick story my sister, Heidi, who
is ten years younger than me, wanted to go into coaching,
and I said, Heidi, the best thing to do is
to get trained somewhere. And so I said, you can
go three places. You can come to Ohio state where
I am, but I will tell you everything I know. Anyway,
don't do that. So you have two choices. You can
go to Tennessee with Pat Summit, or you can go
to Texas with Jody Conrad, because those were the top
(34:36):
women at the time, you know, coaching. And I said,
I'll pay for your graduate school. I said, but I
have one rule. You have to be the first one
in the office and the last one to leave every day.
So she went to Tennessee and within one week she
called me and she said, I have a full graduate
assistant position. I said, how'd you get that? Because I
was the first one in the office and the last
one to leave. So women can't be They have to be,
(34:57):
you know, really motivated, hard working, but we have to
give them opportunities. And when we look at coaching, you know,
in when back when I was first playing, most of
the jobs, ninety percent of the jobs were women because
there was no money and as soon as money came
into it in prestige. Then now half the jobs in
women's basketball are men, whereas all the jobs in men's
(35:19):
basketball are men. So you know, seventy five percent of
the jobs are going to men and we need to
balance it out. And honestly, I think a staff of
both men and women is ideal, but men won't hire women.
So I'm like, well, I've got to hire women and
give them the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
As the older I get, and I've said this before,
the more I feel like overcorrection is necessary. If we've
given the world a million opportunities to help with the
equity and equality equation and it's not been fixed by
the men in charge, then the women in charge have
to overcorrect. And to your point, I think, yeah, if
you're not included in men's basketball, then you sort of
have a responsibility to have women in women's basketball.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Muffett, what's your take on it?
Speaker 1 (35:59):
I think if you had if someone said tomorrow, your
new job is helping fix this problem, where do you start?
Speaker 4 (36:04):
You know, I think there's there's two parts in that.
One is the athletic director is mostly white men. They're
still doing the hiring and they're hiring a lot of men,
and I think that one of the reasons is the
way women interview and the way they apply for jobs.
I think we need to be better at being more
aggressive going after the job and women talk with we
you know, well, here's what we did, my staff did this.
(36:25):
When you compliment a woman, it's always like, well, everybody
did their job, and we all, you know, put together,
and men are like, here's what I did, and here's
what I can do. And you know, some of the
guys that left my staff, I would think, I thought
I did a lot of those things, but apparently you
did all of those because that's what your resume reflects.
So I think that we need to teach women. First
of all, we need the network better, We need to
(36:46):
put ourselves out there. We need to be able to
take hearing no. Guys don't care if they hear no.
They make up any excuse, Well they were looking for
this and that, and I didn't have that. But women
we take it personally and we're really loyal, like we
like to stay where we are, and I think that's
a part of the punk. We have our networks, we
have our help with our families and all those other things,
But I think a lot of it is still if
(37:06):
a woman fails, the ad is thinking I got to
hire a guy because it didn't work with every.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Woman, right, and that seems to be the case in
so many places. It happens also with coaches of color.
Often the gender or the races to be blamed and
then everybody from that category is out and we're back
to white menigan because they never reflect on each other.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
You know, I want to thank Muffett for contributing to
the Women's Sports Foundation has a legacy fund. It is
in my name, Yeah, but it's really for all women
to develop women, to develop a pipeline of women where
they're you know, given modest scholarship and through the Women's
Sports Foundation, they can then work at a university that
might not have the money to pay for another staff person.
(37:47):
And I also think that you know, both Muffett and
I have worked really hard at mentoring young women to
get them ready for head positions. And if you look
at the success of you know, the coach at Notre
Dame now Ne l Ivy, was a assistant and she
has other assistants that are doing extremely well throughout the country.
(38:08):
So that's what we're doing you know, it's not we're
we're not sitting back complaining about the fact that no, no,
but we're doing something about it. And I'm really proud
of the coaching tree that I have too, most proud
of my sister. You know that it's done so well,
but you know so it's mentoring and it's also supporting
organizations that support women.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Yeah, completely agree.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Twenty nineteen is when you launched the Tara Vander of
Your Fund for the Advancement of Women in Coaching with
the Women's Sports Foundation, And to my question, that might
have been your first step. You weren't assigned the task,
but you took it anyway to help fund and create
that pipeline, which is just so important. And of course
the staffs that you have led throughout both of your
careers are a huge part of helping fix that problem
as well.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
You mentioned your sister Tar.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
I want to ask you quickly the emotions of watching
her coach. You see San Diego in its first ever
NCAA tournament appearance, where there are a lot of phone
calls of advice or did you say, hands off, she's
got this.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
No, you know, she watched our team. She she was
at all those noted Dame games that we talked about,
you know, but you know, I will tell you it
was like a root canal watching and cheering was miserable.
But I was so proud of Heidi. This is the
first year that they were able to go to the
NCAA tournament, and they qualified and they won their turn,
(39:24):
their Big West tournament and both she and their men's
team went. And you know, do you have to take
baby steps?
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (39:31):
I also I think Muff and I both would you know,
we'd look at a bracket. We're always looking at number one,
number two, number three, no four. You know, it's like
who even pays attention to, you know, the sixteen seeds,
and there's Heidi. And I'm like, I was so excited
for her when her name came up. You know, their
school came up, even they had to play, they played
a play in game, but it was it was just
so exciting for her and for us to really under
(39:52):
you know, for the young people that get to go
to the tournament is something really.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Special for sure. So Root Canal watching your sister.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
What about the emotions watching Stanford miss the tournament after
thirty six straight seasons in the dance.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
Well, you know it's uh. I thought, I thought Kate
did a fabulous job this year. And you know, the
the talent was not there. They had an injury for
a player that missed eight games, they had another player
there's out. But she has done Kate has done a
fabulous job, you know, not just coaching but recruiting. And
(40:28):
you know, I think Stanford we're going through a difficult
time with getting a new athletic director, but it will
We'll be back very soon. And I think it's the
team played hard, the team. The team is a very
well coached team, but we need to be bigger and
more athletic and more experienced. So good good days are ahead.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
I think also anytime a legend leaves, there's an inevitability
that there might be some feeling of like, oh, I
don't know that I want to be a part of
this new regime or this this restarting of this program
after for this, you know, incredible success, so that's.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
To be expected. I'll give them some time.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
I try I give both. I mean to follow Muffett,
you know, coach is you know that's a tough that's
a very tough situation. I think Kate, but I think
they're They're very capable. And these are different times too,
you know, all the portal, all the money rev sharing, uh,
(41:26):
you know, collective money. This is a different time. And honestly,
I I am so thankful for the time that I
had as a coach, working with the players I worked with,
working you know, on the sideline against people like Muffett
and Gino and Pat. I have to pinch myself.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
I've had a magical run coach. It sounds like, and
I don't want to speak for you, but it's interesting.
There's a little bit of the good old days kind
of feeling about the days before the ni L and
the transfer portal, and in so many ways the game
is evolving in positive ways. For young women to be paid,
to have opportunity to have a bunch of pro spaces
(42:09):
of WNBA unrivaled and not just overseas, and all these things.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
But it does change the game.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Is there a bittersweet sort of appreciation of the evolution.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (42:19):
I mean, I really agree they should make some money.
I'm all for that. I think they should have to
do something to make the money. I don't think somebody
should just give it to them. I really hate that
they get paid to do community service, which I think
is kind of an oxymoron. You're supposed to be doing
community service for a lot of reasons. I think we're
missing the life skills that we used to teach them about,
(42:43):
all the things that they had to learn, the discipline,
the perseverance. You're maybe not going to start, You're maybe
not going to play a lot as a freshmen. You've
got to earn your way, and kids aren't willing to
do that anymore. I think the combination transfer portal with
the NIL when kids will just call and say, I
want to transfer. How much you given me? That's the
first question they ask. You know, what about you know,
(43:05):
how does it fit?
Speaker 2 (43:06):
You know?
Speaker 4 (43:06):
What about Notre Dame? What about the education? You know,
we've totally lost the education because you're going to three
and four schools. I mean, there's there's just nothing. And
I just think it's really hurting them. I think it's
hurting them for their future. Such a small percentage make
it in the w What are they going to do
when their phone's not going to ring and somebody's not
going to say, here's one hundred thousand dollars to do
(43:26):
absolutely nothing. They have to make their way in the world,
and we're not preparing them to do that.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
I agree one hundred percent and that I do think
that players should have the opportunity. You know, we go
from one extreme where ten years ago you couldn't give
a kid an apple unless you cut it up, and
now you're talking about you know, but when you have
when you have pro basketball, you have guardrails, and we
(43:53):
don't have guardrails. Right now, we don't have guardrails. The
horse is out of the barn and there's no fence
that's run a while. Yes, nil is a good thing. Yes,
pro opportunities are great things. I think I've transferred. I
think transferring is you know, they should have the option
to do that. But when you combine basically tampering, which
we have going on, and that's not allowed in the pros.
(44:14):
We don't have a salary cap, I think we're in
some quick stand with things. And as Muffett has I
think very astutely pointed out, this is not healthy for
young people to be living in this la la land
of you know, they're delusional about their abilities and you know,
like you said, doing getting paid for community service that's
(44:36):
an oxymoron.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, we're in this really interesting space of like appreciating
the things that we've always wanted and asked for, but
also understanding that some of the joy and the positives
that we saw in women's sports as opposed to men's
used to be playing for love of the game, not
getting caught up in the under the table dealings, like
all the stuff that comes when you infuse something with money,
it becomes just another part of a larger capitalist system.
(45:02):
So yeah, I mean, it's a constant check into how
do we get what the players deserve, and also not
ruin what was at the heart of it and what
made it so great. I know you all have to go,
so I have one last question for you. We always
ask people what advice they would give their younger self,
But I feel like the words we tell our younger
self often don't mean much or wouldn't mean much to
that younger person. They don't have the wisdom and the
experience or the context to get it yet.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
So instead I want to ask something you wish you.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Already knew and understood in your twenties about life or
about yourself.
Speaker 4 (45:31):
I wish I would have had more confidence. I don't
think like most women. I think we all struggle with
confidence at one time or another, and just that believing
in yourself and doing what you know is right and
realizing that people are going to criticize you no matter
what you do, so you might as well feel good
about what you do. Take a chance, you know, take
a chance and go after what you want. I was
(45:55):
really reluctant to do that for most of my young life.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
How about you, Tara, I think that you know, I
guess if I were to, if I were to were
able to go back to my twenty five year old self,
I think I would probably take better care of myself.
I would, you know. I was so crazy about working,
and you know, whether it was recruiting or watching video
I think I would have done more things for myself younger,
(46:22):
and as I got older I figured it out. I
just like I needed, you know, time to go to
go to the lake, you know, but to work out,
to eat eat right and not sacrifice, you know, just
just realize it that your life is your life is
not a dress rehearsal and every single day, you know,
and not be I was a little bit, I think,
(46:43):
very one dimensional and just like it was all about work. Yeah,
I would have. I would have had more.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
Fun, more fun, more risks. All right, listen up, twenty somethings,
more fun, more risks. Also, the patriarchy is a fucking trap.
Learn it now. Don't work to appease men, don't align
with men in power. Be the woman in power, and
bring other women with you. That's what I would tell
(47:11):
myself is learn way earlier how much of society's messaging
to women is bullshit, and just start deciding that I
don't have to play any of their rules.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
That's Sarah, Well, Sarah, what else you know? Let it
all out there.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
I just know I waited until the end. I kept
it classy until I showed her myself.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
Tar.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
We don't know each other very well, you know, all right.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
Thank you, Sarah. I just want to just say it's
an honor to be on a panel with Muffett and Muffett,
it's great to see you, and yeah, you do. You
do a tremendous job on television. I think that they
ought to have more coaches talking about the game because
you know what you're talking about. But thank you, appreciates
a great job, and Sarah, thank you for including me.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Thank you both so much for coming on. This was
such a fun, fun time. Thank you so much Tatar
and Muffett for taking the time. We got to take
another break stick around. Welcome back, slaicays. We love that
you're listening, but we want to get you in the
(48:13):
game every day too. So here's our good game play
of the day, y'all. Don't wait to take a big swing.
Don't be so afraid of failing that you don't even try.
Don't be so risk averse that you never take a chance.
If you've been waiting for a sign, this is it.
I'm talking to you and to me. I think we
got to meet this weird, awful, scary moment with more
(48:36):
bravery and self assuredness and audacity than we thought we
had in us. Tara and Muffett said, so, so let's
do it. We'd love to hear from you. Hit us
up on email good game at wondermedianetwork dot com or
leave us a voicemail at eight seven two two oh
four fifty seventy. And don't forget to subscribe, rate and review, y'all.
I tell you every day.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
Have you done it? Have you subscribed? Have you rated
have you given us five stars and given us a
nice review? It's really easy.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Watch tag Notataro's audition to join our team review five
out of five you got the job rating. Tag Noataro
was the hilarious host of the fifth annual Ambi's Awards
here in Chicago, and Good Game was nominated for Best
Sports Podcast.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
Now we did not win. We lost to a curling
show mm hmm, show about a broom.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
But we are not bitter. We're happy for them. As
friend and fellow loser in her category. Pablo Torre said,
I'm just glad Canada felt appreciated somewhere in this country.
And as they say, honestly, just an honor to be nominated.
And it was also an honor to be in the
same room as Tig, one of my faves, especially when
she perfectly nailed the behind the scenes production speak of
(49:43):
every single podcast ever made.
Speaker 5 (49:46):
Now, before we get started, I need to do some housekeeping.
First off, you'll all need your own headphones, so there's
no feedback tonight, and we are recording on our end.
But if you could all just use your voice memos
yes for backup, we'd really appreciate it. And lastly, let's
(50:06):
all hold for ten seconds for room tone.
Speaker 4 (50:20):
Okay, great, we got that tig.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
You're hired. We'll send you the link to join the
next recording. Now it's your turn. Y'all rate and.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
Review, Thanks for listening, and thanks again to Nissan and
the all new Nissan Armada for making this legendary conversation happen.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
We'll talk to you tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You
can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network,
our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive
producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder.
Our editors are Emily Rutter, Britney Martin Knez, and Grace Lynch.
(51:01):
Our associate producer is Lucy Jones and I'm your host,
Sarah Spain
Welcome to a very special episode of Good Game with
Sarah Spain. Proudly sponsored by Nissan, The all new Nissan
Armada is the most powerful suv Nissan has ever made.
Rugged and gritty, but also luxurious. It's a premium vehicle
made for adventurers who are ready to conquer whatever's in
front of them, just like the coaches and athletes that
battle it out each year in the NCAA Women's Basketball Tournament.
(00:22):
Two of those coaches, all time greats of the game,
will join me today. It's Thursday, April third, and on
today's show, we'll be talking to former Stanford coach Tara
Vanderveer and former Notre Dame coach Muffett McGraw, two of
the winningest coaches in college basketball history. Over the last decade.
They got to know each other pretty well in March,
with their teams meeting four times in the NCAA Tournament,
(00:42):
all in the span of five years. Notre Dame one
two of those matchups, in twenty fifteen and twenty nineteen,
while Stanford won in twenty sixteen and twenty seventeen. We'll
find out what they remember about their four face offs
in the NCAA tournament brainstorm, how to get more women
into coaching, and talk about the pros and cons of
the changing women's game from increased investment to nil and.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
The transfer portal.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I caught up with them earlier this week ahead of
the Final four this weekend in Tampa, Plus a portal shakeup,
more proof that knees should be banned, and Team Good
Game looks to take a w from anel. It's all
coming up right after this welcome back slices. Here's what
(01:26):
you need to know today. Let's start with some news
that's shaking up both the college and pro hoops landscapes.
Notre Dame's Olivia Miles, who was widely expected to be
the number two pick in this year's WNBA draft, is
instead holding off on turning pro and entering the transfer portal.
ESPN's sham Sharani was the first to report the news
on Monday. Miles has one year of college eligibility remaining,
(01:47):
as she sat out all of last year with a
knee injury. After Notre Dames lost to TCU in the
Sweet sixteen, Miles hinted that she had a lot on
her mind.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Quote, I love college.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
I think I've outgrown it a little bit, though, so
that makes my decision tough for to stay. It's comfortable
a place where you have security. The W the volatility
is up and down.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
So I don't know. I'm deciding between a bunch of factors.
End quote.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
So let me briefly add some context here that I
think matters. One, the Irish stumbled down the stretch and
then they got bounced in the sweet sixteen, so Miles
probably has a bad taste in her mouth about their finish. Two,
she wasn't healthy down the stretch, so her numbers suffered
and she couldn't be herself out there. Her March stats
were frankly not good. So maybe she wants to pull
a Haley van Lit, find somewhere she can thrive and
(02:31):
go out feeling better both in terms of personal and
team success. And or she's looking at the CBA negotiations
going on in the W. Now this is important because
she knows if she enters next year's draft, her rookie
deal will be under a new CBA that's expected to
pay players way more, and that's a three year deal
for rookies with a fourth year option, so it would
(02:52):
be at a much higher rookie salary than the one
players coming out this year are going to make. Now
the transfer part of this is more surprising to me
than the sticking around. But maybe there's more to the
story about why Notre Dame faltered late in the season,
or maybe more to know about miles relationship with the
coaching staff or teammates or the school we might find out.
Important to note as well, just because she's in the
transfer portal, that doesn't mean she can't return to the Irish.
(03:15):
Miles does retain the right to stick around if she
doesn't like her options. More college hoops. The twenty twenty
four to twenty five Naysmith Award ceremony on Wednesday was
a West Side party, with USC star ju Ju Watkins
taking home National Player of the Year honors, UCLA center
Lauren Betts winning Defensive Player of the Year, and UCLA
coach Corey Close.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Earning Coach of the Year honors.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
The five finalists for the Wooden Award, given annually to
the most outstanding college basketball player in the country, were
also announced on Wednesday. There are some familiar names, USC's
ju Ju Watkins, UCLA's Lauren Betts, plus Yukon's page. Beckers
Texas is Madison Booker and Notre Dames Hanna Hidalgo. The
award will be handed out on April eleventh. Becker's previously
won in twenty twenty one, becoming the first freshman to
(03:59):
receive the honor to the NWSL. Gotham FC announced on
Wednesday that Tyrna Davidson sustained an ACL tear in her
left knee in last Friday's game against the Houston Dash.
She's been placed on the season ending injury list. It's
devastating news to hear, especially since Davidson previously tore her
right ACL in twenty twenty two, an injury that sidelined
(04:19):
her for a year and kept her out of contention
for the twenty twenty three World Cup. Tyrna posted on
social in part quote in matching scars out my left
ACL and quote the beauty of life is its unpredictable nature.
While I've found myself on the adverse side of this unpredictability,
at the moment, I know this experience will be another
colorful chapter of my journey. I have no doubt this
(04:42):
year will bring me unexpected joys despite this setback, end
quote typical Tyrna handling things with grace, intelligence and perspective.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
We're sending you our best and hoping for a smooth recovery. Tea.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
More injury news, this one in women's basketball. The New
York Liberty announced that guard Benijel Lany Hamilton had surgery
in March to repair an acute meniscus injury in her
left knee. Landey Hamilton played two games in Unrivaled before
sustaining the injury for the Liberty. She's expected to be
out for five to six months, which will keep her
out of most, if not all, of the twenty twenty
five WNBA season.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
This is a real.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Bummer for Benijo, who missed six weeks last season to
a knee injury and also missed time in twenty sixteen
when she tore her ACL playing for the Chicago Sky. Obviously,
anytime you play basketball, you're at risk for injury, and
Unrivaled is no different. Something players certainly have to think
about when they sign on to playoff season ball.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
More hoops news.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Longtime coach now Fortner announced on Monday that she's retiring,
effective immediately. Fortner spent the last six years as head
coach of Georgia Tech, following stops at Purdue and Auburn.
Fortner also previously served as the Indiana Fevers head coach
from two thousand and one till two thousand and three.
She also led Team USA to a gold medal at
the two thousand Sydney Olympics. In a statement, Fortner said
it wasn't an easy decision to step away. Quote Georgia
(05:55):
Tech is a gold mine as an institution and an
athletics department, and is well position to compete for acc
and national championships in women's basketball. That makes it very
hard to step away. But for me, after spending much
of the last thirty plus years on the sideline, I
just feel.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
That it's time end.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Finally, we're sending congratulations to Alex Morgan and her husband
Servando Carrasco on the birth of their baby boy, Enzo.
Morgan announced her pregnancy and retirement from professional soccer last
September and played her final game days later. Too early
to get that kid in some cleats, speaking of actually
has their daughter Charlie been signed by an NWSL club yet?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
We're going to take a quick break when we come back.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Hall of famers, Tara Vanderveer and Muffett McGraw. Welcome back
to this very special episode of Good Game with Sarah Spain,
presented by Nissan and the all new Nissan Armada and SCUV.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
That's luxurious and tough.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Speaking a tough, Let's get to my conversation with two
of the toughest coaches in women's college basketball history, Muffett
McGraw and Tara Vanderveer.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Joining us now.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
She was the head women's basketball coach at Stanford from
nineteen eighty five until her retirement in twenty twenty four.
A three time Naysmith Coach of the Year and eighteen
time Pack twelve Coach of the Year, she led the
Cardinal to fourteen final fours and three NCAA Championship wins
in ninety, ninety two and twenty twenty one. She's one
of only nine NCAA women's basketball coaches to win over
nine hundred games, one of ten NCAA Division One coaches
(07:22):
women or men to win a thousand games. Her twelve
hundred and sixteen wins make her the second winning as
head coach and men's or women's college basketball history, behind
only Gino Oriama, Who's snuck by this year. She coached
Team USA to a gold medal at the ninety six
Olympics and was inducted into the Women's Basketball Hall of
Fame in O two and the Naysmith Basketball Hall of
Fame in twenty eleven. The court at Stanford's Maples Pavilion
(07:42):
was named in her honor.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
It's Tara Vanderveer.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Thanks for joining us, Tara, my pleasure, Shara joining us again.
She's a basketball analyst for ESPN and the ACC Network
and was the head women's basketball coach at Notre Dame
from nineteen eighty seven until her retirement in twenty twenty.
A three time Naysmith Coach of the Year, she led
her team to nine Final four, seven championship game appearances
and two national Championship wins in twenty one and twenty eighteen.
(08:05):
She was inducted into the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame
in twenty eleven and the Naysmith Basketball Hall of Fame
in twenty seventeen. She's the first female coach at Notre
Dame to have a statue in her honor.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
It's Muffett McGraw. Welcome back, Muffett thiks.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
Sarah, those numbers kind of pale in comparison to one
Tara Vanderverer.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
They are both far too long for me to say
the full bio. I had to do a lot of
editing to just get to the very best up. I
am so excited to have you both here. I am
so excited to talk about your memories from your tournament battles,
how we can get more women into college coaching, and
so much more. But I want to start with those
meetings in March, because I think it's so rare and
(08:42):
unique to have two Hall of Fame incredible coaches on
to share what their perspective was during those meetings, And
I want to start with the first one. Twenty fourteen,
twenty fifteen season Sweet sixteen matchup. Muffett, your Notre Dame
team was thirty six and three overall, fifteen and one
in the ACC, won the ACC Tournament, Jewel Lloyd, Brionna Turner,
(09:02):
Lindsay Allen, Tara your Stanford team twenty six and ten
overall thirteen and five, and PAC twelve play winners of
the PAC twelve Tournament, Amber Orange, Lily Thompson, Bonnie Samuelson,
Kaylee Johnson leading the way on that roster. Notre Dame
is a number one seed. They win over number four
Stanford eighty one to sixty. Muffett, what do you remember
about that game plan?
Speaker 4 (09:23):
You know, I love playing against Tar because she is
just such a terrific strategist in the game. And I
don't remember exactly what our game plan was. When you
have players like Jewel Lloyd, you expected they're going to
just step up and play really well. I know she's
really far to guard, but Lindsay Allen came out was
a fantastic game that night also, so Lindsay and Jewel.
You know, Tar, you gotta win with guards in the
(09:44):
NCAA tournament, and I had some pretty good guards that year.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, Jewelloyd seventeen of her twenty one points in the
second half of that game. Do you remember being on
the sideline and trying different things to stop her or
figuring out how you could try to make somebody else
beat you down the stretch?
Speaker 3 (10:00):
I can. I can picture some of the misery of
that game. But they were just that good. They were
They were just that good. And you know, Joe Lloyd,
it wouldn't matter who you were putting honor, and you know,
our team was you know, I think that our team
was still a young team at that point and we
were It's kind of weird that we were in Notre
(10:22):
Dame's bracket like so many times, yeah, in the beginning
of my career, but way at the end and uh
they again, Muffett does a great job with their team.
They had really talented team, and you know, there there
was just no beating him that year.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Muffett.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
You mentioned Tara being a great strategist. When you're entering
a game against a coach that you've had a good
look at, they've been at it for a while, even
if you haven't faced each other in the tournament before,
do you try to get ahead of what you think
they're gonna do. Usually this is what Tara does here,
or usually this is how they counteract here. Does it
make it any easier to have some proof of concept
from a coach?
Speaker 4 (10:59):
You know, I think coaches like Tara they change things frequently.
I think there's some coaches out there like, we're a
Manda man team and we're only gonna do this and
this is what we do on offense. I think with
Tara is like I want to win, and here's how
best to guard the seams, so you get a good
look at how you should be guarded. And I wish
we've played earlier in the years so I could learn,
you know, throughout the year, like I got to fix
(11:19):
all these things instead of waiting for the NCAA tournament.
But just you never really knew exactly what to expect.
But you just knew that they were gonna be a
great rebounding team, they were going to be a great
defensive team. And we've run a lot of the same
stuff on offense, you know, variations of the Princeton offense,
so a lot of similarities.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Tara, you mentioned you had a young team that year.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
If you think just looking at the talent matchup that
your squad doesn't probably match up as well, do you
try to get more creative, maybe a little gimmicky and
some things to see if you can change the odds.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Well, I don't think the NCAA tournament's are time to
try to new things. You got to kind of go
what's been working for for you. You're not gonna You're
not gonna do gimmicky things. You're gonna do what's work,
what works for you, And I would say what we
would try to do is I will say play scouting,
report defense, So we will you know, look at the numbers.
You can watch energy, you know, and you have to
(12:15):
kind of pick your poison. You you know, you have
to know kind of who to guard and who to guard,
how you have to double, you know, depending upon their
inside game. And but when you have the combination of
great players and great coaching, you're you're up a crick
without a paddle. That was that, That was what was
in that situation.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
So you meet in the very next season in the
sweet sixteen again, twenty fifteen sixteen muff. At this time
your team's thirty three and two overall sixteen and ozer
one ACC Play winners of the ACC Tournament. This roster
Breonna Turner, Lindsay Allen, Madison Cable, and you add some youngsters.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
In Ari Gay Gumbawalle and Marina maybriy Tar.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Your Stanford team twenty seven and eight, fourteen and four
and PAC twelve play. You finished it at tie for third,
but you got an at large bid to the tournament.
You're led again by Lilly Bonnie and Kayley, but also
so Erica McCall. You as a number four seed, upset
number one Notre Dame ninety to eighty four and lexingting.
That ends a twenty six game winning streak for the
Irish Tara.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
What do you remember about that day?
Speaker 3 (13:12):
I probably should have done my homework, and I know
we're gonna go back through all the game. You know, again,
sometimes you just you have a good game and different
people step up. And when you're a number four, and
maybe you played a team the last year, I don't
remember anything specific about that game.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
But let me jog your memory because I can almost
guess that Muffett might remember these two numbers. Your team
shot fifty five point nine percent overall and fifty five
percent from three. You mentioned sometimes you just have a
good game. That's a pretty good game, Uh, Muffett, What
do you remember about trying to stop them when they're
shooting that?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Well?
Speaker 4 (13:48):
You know, I think we had the lead for a
lot of the time during that game, and we just
could not defensively figure out a way to guardment where
we were a zone team back then, we of course
had to go Amanda man I had a couple of
really weak defenders of him, specifically, I don't want to
mention any names we show. We're getting out on this
get out of the three point shooters, and you know,
it came right down to the wire. I think we
(14:08):
had a shot to win it right at the end. Yeah,
the suck up.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Blocked well to your point, you actually were down by
as many as fifteen points, but then you got it
to a three point game with two minutes left, and
you really had an opportunity to undo what had been
a tough game for your team for most of it.
But then, man, just Erica McCall twenty seven points, tart.
What's it like to watch someone have their career high
in a game.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
That's that important?
Speaker 3 (14:34):
You know, what's what's really fun and for someone like
Erica McCall is for her to have a great game
because she is just a great person. When you have
a player on your team that is so special as
a person, as a teammate, you you know, it's doubly
rewarding as a coach when you see them perform, especially
(14:56):
at a big stage. There could be no one that
is happier or you know, a better teammate than Erica.
So I was just really thrilled for her, and she
struggled like making the adjustment to college basketball and kind
of find her way. And you know, obviously she had
a good game that particular game.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
She said that the team was calling themselves party crashers
beforehand because they knew what a great team Notre Dame
had Muffett. You'd won twenty seven straight games that had
been decided in single digits or overtime, hadn't lost a
single digit margin since twenty twelve.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
That's pretty wild. That's a long stretch to go of
being clutch.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
You know, I wonder why I accepted the invitation to
join this little podcast right now. Oh my gosh, like
bringing up those memories, like I clearly remember the end
of that game, and you know, it's interesting about the
end of that game. We went to a rique Ogu Muwalian.
She was young, she was a young player, and she
was the one I had confidence in to take that
last shot. And you know, we ran and played it.
(15:58):
We'd run quite a few times, and Erica McCall just
made a great plight block in the shot. But it
was it was it was a shame that we had
to play them back to back and then again, you know,
a couple of years later.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Well, I hate to move on to the next year
and rub it in some more, but this is really good.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
It's good to talk to very.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Successful people about times when things didn't work out. We're
so used to talking about the wins, but you can't
win every time. The next year, twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen,
you meet again, this time in the Elite eight.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Buffett thirty three and four, fifteen and.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
One in the ACC won the regular season and the
ACC tournament for the four straight year. You got a
Rique Marina, Brianna Lindsay and a freshman Jackie Young. Tara's
Stanford team thirty two and six, fifteen and three in
the PAC twelve won the PAC twelve tournament. You got McCall, Samuelson,
Brittany McPhee on that roster. Youngsters Alana Smith and dj
A Carrington joined the party for that one. Number two
(16:49):
Stanford wins a nail bier seventy six, seventy five. This
was number one seed, Notre Dame's first loss, and that
lead eight with you at the hell Muffet.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
This was a tough one. What stands out to you
about that one? That one's real type.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Yeah, I've obviously put that one right out of my mind.
We you know, I think we were nine and one
in games to go to the fun of four and yeah,
I really I've forgotten about that one. I've I've tried
to forget about it, and I think I was successful
in doing so successful.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Tara might remember that they were down by sixteen points.
They had an absolutely disastrous second where you did switch
from zone to man and they were really having trouble scoring.
But then the Cardinal outscored you twenty four to twelve
in the third, which set it up to be a
real game. Brittany McFee had nine in the fourth, twenty
seven overall. What do you remember about Brittany McFee in
(17:39):
that one, Tara?
Speaker 3 (17:41):
You know what I remember is Erique being a tremendous
talent and no garter. And you know, I think that
when you have when you're in the locker room at
halftime and you're getting beat like a drum, you know,
when someone says i'll garter, you know you're just like, okay,
that you respect someone that will give it a try.
And again, I think that it was really unfortunate that
(18:03):
you have teams that have the equal ability to go
to the final four, and we again end up in
the same bracket, and that game was the one that
you know, we were down, we got some momentum, we
started hitting some shots people. You know, I just we
we ran some a couple of plays here and there.
There's some turnovers and we did we got the momentum
(18:25):
at the end, and we're really fortunate to win the game.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
You mentioned halftime.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Did you sort of throughout your career have a general
approach to how to rally a team when you're down
big at the half or was it really dependent on
which players were in the room and what they better
responded to.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Well, this particular halftime was we were we were stuck
in the mud. We were we looked awful. I was
going down the hall to the halftime and Erica McCall
went running by and to the coaches are there, and
she goes, we got them right where we want them,
And I'm thinking, what the hell game is? She and so.
(19:05):
But but I think that that's where, you know, your
team leadership really makes a big difference. And I think
it would agree that when you have great team leaders,
you know, they never give up, they work really hard,
and you know, I hope that this not reminiscing necessarily
about games, but when with Muffett's team, you know, both
(19:26):
she and I have coach teams that have won national championships.
It's more like, what what are the things that what
are the things that you need to win a national championship?
And you know, we didn't win that year. Actually we
were up against South Carolina when we went on to
the final four, we were up against South Carolina and
Carlie Samilinson got hurt and that big We're up seven,
(19:47):
I think or nine a half time. But you know,
when you're that close, like when you have these teams
that are this close, little things just have to go right.
You have to keep people healthy. You can't have fouls.
I mean, you know, you look this year with Juju
get hurt. So it's not it's not really what happened
in those games so much, but what you know, how
(20:07):
do you keep like how does how did Muffett like
keep getting your team back to the final four year
after year and winning and getting the championship game. It's
it's what you're teaching every day. It's the good kids
that you have on your team. It's the leadership on
your team. And I think those are the things that
are much more important than you know what what we
remember maybe from those regular games.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yeah, for sure. I mean clearly it's about the longevity.
And we've talked on this show before about how do
you as a coach get your players through the understanding
that they can do everything right, but it can be
a missed call, it can be a ball off your
foot that goes to the other team at the end.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
I mean that happened yesterday for LSU right in front
of Kim's bench. She was going nuts. It was clearly
off the other team. And you know, but that happens.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
It's basketball, right, There's only so much that's in your control.
So Muffett, when you're either starting a tournament run with
the team or maybe in the midst of the really
tough games, how do you communicate to them to just
be in charge of what they can be in charge of?
Speaker 4 (21:04):
You know, my thing in the tournament was always we're
going to do it exactly the same way we've been
doing it all year long. If you weren't on the
team bus, you didn't travel with us, you weren't traveling
with us in the final four, you weren't eating team
meals with us. Our team was doing exactly the same thing.
So I wanted them to feel like, we've done this before.
This is how we prepared. There's nothing new, no flashy things. No.
I never let the media in my locker rooms because
(21:26):
I'm not giving a big huddle of time, you know,
big cheerleading speech. You know, we're just saying, hey, this
is what we need to do, kind of based on
facts and knowing your team. You know, I think letting them.
I kind of stayed away from them because I was
usually a wreck. I mean I'm like, I'm thinking of
everything that could go wrong. One thing I did really
well was catastrophized the situation. I mean I could find
(21:47):
something that was going to go wrong at any moment.
So I was like, you guys, go over there. I'm
gonna be over here and worrying.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
I'll see.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
I love it. I kind of did this the opposite.
I would say, this is an omen something would happen.
I see, this is a good omen. So if we
had one time we had like our bus broke down,
you know, and then the next time I told the
bus driver, I said stall the bus, because you know,
when the bus broke down and we did so well,
so looking for good things that you know are are
(22:19):
this this is our year, this is this.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Is what we can do it or manufacturing them if
it's required. I want to get to some bigger picture questions.
I think you're right, Tara, it's about approach. But there's
one last meeting I just want to touch on. You
actually avoided each other for a year. It was a
good year for Notre Dame. Muffett and company won it
all in twenty seventeen eighteen. We all remember a rique
shot that was just one of my favorite favorites of
all time.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
But then you meet again the next year.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
You had again in the same region area twenty eighteen
nineteen in the Sweet sixteen. This is your final meeting
in the tournament, Muffett. Your team's thirty five and four overall,
fourteen and two in the ACC. You get an at
large bit because you get second in the tourney. You
still got Arik Brianna, Marina Jackie and senior Jessica Shepherd
steps up.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Tara.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
You we were thirty one and five, fifteen and three
in the Pac twelve. You won the Pac twelve tournament.
You got Alana Smith dejon A Keana Williams, Maya Dodson,
and you got the freshman Hall sisters Lexi and Lacy
who are now on the team. Number one seed Notre
Dame gets the win eighty four to sixty eight over
number two Stanford.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Do you remember that one? Muffett?
Speaker 4 (23:16):
That one I remember. I remember because we played in
Chicago and we had such a great Notre Dame crowd.
It was green everywhere and we had I think it
was close to a sellout, if not a sellout. That
was an exciting game. I remember because we had some
role players come off the bench and make some big shots.
When I think we were starting to get a little tight,
and I had a player, Abby Prohaska came in. It
(23:39):
just made a great driving layup, but it just sort
of made everybody relax. So I do remember winning that
game in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Yeah, Arique again twenty one points, Jackie Young twenty five points,
ten rebounds in that one, and then Keanu Williams had
a great game for stan Ford twenty points in the
los Djona had eighteen. Notre was ten of thirty nine
in the first half, but then they went to outscore
Stanford twenty six thirteen and the third and then ended
(24:07):
up going on a run late. So another game where
it's kind of like Tara, your team was in it
and then that last late run from the from the
Irish ends up being ends up being the difference. How
do you strategize down the stretching games of like when
do I let my players figure this out?
Speaker 2 (24:23):
When do I call a time out?
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Are you trying to get it at the beginning of
when the blood letting starts, or how do you strategize?
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Well, in a game like that, you don't want to
let the second half get away from you. But at
the same time, I don't know if Muffett did this,
but with the ability to advance the ball, you if
you can keep it close, you want to have that,
you know, a couple of those in your pocket so
that you can advance the ball. So if you know
(24:50):
but you can't, I'm sure I kind of let you know,
took time out, and you know, if you're going to
go down, if you're down fifteen or so, you know,
no sense in saving them. But you know, if it's
within a I think five to six point game, then
I'm saving timeouts and hoping that you know, we can
keep it close. And with the ability to advance the ball,
(25:11):
which I think makes women's basketball so exciting. I don't
know why the men are not playing quarters and advancing it,
but it really you're always in it, you know, you can.
You can get a lot of possessions with in the
last thirty seconds, with that ability to take a time
out and advance, get a shot, foul, get a shot,
you know, advance, get a shot foul again.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
So I think it's a big decision when you call
those timeouts. And I think when you're watching games now,
you'll see some runs early in the game and you think, man,
they could have used the time out, but they're trying
to save them. And I think the balance for me
was always young team versus veteran team. You know, veteran
team's gonna be able to figure it out on their own,
but a young team sometimes you just got to use it.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
In the first half, we have to take a quick break.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
More with Tara and Muffett in a minute. Welcome back
to this very special episode of Good Game with Sarah Spain,
presented by Nissan and the all new Nissan Armada. Now
back to my conversation with Muffett McGraw and Tara Vanderveer.
You know, I'm curious some longtime college coaches seem to
(26:12):
have great relationships and others not so much. So I'm wondering, Muffett,
did you intentionally or maybe even subconsciously coach differently against
coaches that you didn't like. No, don't pull the starters,
beat the brakes of them.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
I was just selling civil the other day. When we
beat Connecticut in the semi final in twenty eighteen and
went on to win the championship in an exciting game
against Mississippi State, I only ever watched the Connecticut game
again because I just enjoyed those rivalries with Connecticut and
I enjoyed beating them, So when you know, whenever we
did beat them, it was it was always a lot
(26:51):
more fun. But I don't think I don't think I
coached any different. I think, you know, it was it
was nice to be the underdog sometimes I'm playing Connecticut.
A lot of times we were at the underdog.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Yeah, Tara, how about you?
Speaker 3 (27:04):
You know, I think one of the things that I
think I was really fortunate and I would probably think
of it would say the same, is that you know,
like I grew up, I was at basketball camp with
Muffett at Kathy Rush basketball camp way back in the day.
So a lot of the coaches that I grew up
playing against were actually my friends. And you know, I
don't know that a lot of coaches can say that
other coaches are their friends now with all that's going
(27:27):
on with the portal and the poaching and you know,
all that kind of thing, and I think that that's
something that's really lacking from the game of basketball, you know,
something that was really special that we you know, we
would see each other on the road, and you know,
I don't feel like I didn't ever dislike any of
the coaches, and I never would ever run the score
(27:47):
up because that would risk your own players being hurt.
And I I don't think it's healthy for our game.
You know, if you win by twenty, that's okay. Anything
over thirty to me is rubbing it. And I never
like a thirty point or more for anyone. You know,
when I see these games that are, you know, forty
(28:07):
fifty point games, I don't think that's healthy for our
sport or for the young people that are playing. We
want to encourage people.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
To play, so not to mention that's a real opportunity
to put some people in that you never know because
of injury or otherwise. Mike need later in the season
and need to have been in a game against some
top competition and some some other teams.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Hey, I want to make a side note.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
I liked you know.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
Oh yeah, it was just fun to beat them.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I didn't assume it meant you didn't like him, but
I understood that there was a rivalry there, and it
define to beat the top dog.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Did you guys have a bet on Philly cheese steaks
or something there, you know, Philadelphia?
Speaker 4 (28:41):
Yeah, we should have. I mean, we know how to
talk to each other.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Philly.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
They have their own language, so we never got upset
with each other.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah. Is Philly the one that always says Yin's Or
is that Pittsburgh?
Speaker 2 (28:52):
That's Pittsburgh.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
That's Pittsburgh. Yeah, we're like you guys.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yeah, I want to hear more about playing together at
Camp Muffett.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
What do you remember about that?
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Oh my gosh, yeah I remember that was I was
still coaching high school and then an assistant at Saint Joe's,
so Tar was, Uh, she was a head coach at
that time, and I was just thinking Wow. She came
a long way to go to this camp and it
was a coaching camp. It was a no but we
would have staff games. You know, we play after the
kids were done and you know, you already worked like
(29:22):
a twelve hour day and then you're like, man, let's
get the games going. You know this it was just
so fun.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
The games were outside on like you know, hardcourt, Like yeah,
you know, it was hot and it was hot. I
remember like one time it was so hot we had
to take kids into the pool so they didn't, you know,
have exhaustion. And I mean it was it was fun,
but it was work and I was you know, there
were times I think before I met Muffett though, I
(29:49):
was I was roommates with like Debbie Ryan or Mary
and Stanley, and I'm a little bit I'm older than Muffett,
but you know, she would she she was a great
player when she played. Was your teammate at Saint Joe's.
It came to camp too. Do you remember there was
there was a you kind of were not you were
kind of the same build.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
Yeah, Mary Sue Gerty was one.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Yeah, you guys were teared up in the pickup.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Games, you know, Oh, that sounds like fun games.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
With Carol blas Showski. I mean there were some I'm
telling you, there's some hoopers that were playing in these games.
It was fun.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
I can't tell you how much I missed just playing
basketball all day, Like it didn't matter if it was
outside the asphalt or if you had like an aau
and you had four games in the same day in
a gym with no ac and your body still worked,
and you could do it all day long.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Like what a dream that was.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
I don't know that. I don't know that young players
loved the game in the way that I feel like
I love the game. I mean I was crazy about
playing all the time. I didn't have I didn't have
nil of course, I didn't have a scholarship. I bought
my own shoes, you know. I mean it was just
but going to the gym and playing pick up or
like at camp at camp, at our Stanford camp, we
(30:58):
had three courts going and we played to midnight and
winners got the middle court, you know, and it was
a big deal and you were playing with all the
staff people. It was fun. And I don't know that
young players, what do you think, MOFE. Do they enjoy
playing as much as we did.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
You know, I don't even think they care if they
win in AU. I don't think they shouldn't even bother
keeping score.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, I wonder there's a couple of reasons for that.
I wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
It's always hard to make generalizations about everybody, But I
do think number one, when you insert the nil and
the money and the stress and the pressure, it's great
in the sense of helping professionalize and offer opportunity, but
it's also hard because it does make it about that sometimes,
or there is this added pressure of if I don't
get this while I get this deal, or that kind
of thing. But I also think I wonder about generationally
(31:44):
what it meant to be allowed to play sport, to
be embodied, to be free out on a court in
the seventies.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
And eighties versus now.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Right, there's an entitlement to it now, fifty plus years
after Title nine. Of like, of course playing basketball, But
I wonder if when you guys were growing up, it
felt more like against the rules or this this is
my identity because it's something I care so much about
that not all other girls and women do.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Well.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
There were definitely stereotypes I mean it was always me
and nine guys down at the playground. Yeah, I mean
I was always the only girl, and I think that
really served me well for the future to break into
this men's world of sports. And I think that there
was a lot of things said. We were called tomboys,
you know, there was like name calling, and it just
(32:35):
it just wasn't socially acceptable at the time. So we did.
We fought a lot of areas. Title line had just
been announced, but it wasn't really put into effect yet.
I mean, we were pretty lucky. We had a team.
My team is Saint Joe's first team ever because of
Title nine and you know tours, right, We bought our
own shoes. We didn't have we don't have practice clothes,
(32:55):
you know, we drove ourselves to games. There was a
lot of things that we had to do for ourselves
back then that these kids now, you know, you just
want to say, you have no idea, how good you
have it?
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Yeah, I agree, although sometimes that for whatever reason, that
self determination kind of pushes you to care more about
something than when it's either handed to you or someone
else wants you to do it, which is maybe more
the case now with so many people set to benefit
from girls that are at great at basketball. You know, Muffett,
you mentioned it helped you sort of in this industry.
Last time you were on, we played your now pretty
infamous speech about the importance of hiring women assistants. You
(33:27):
started exclusively having female assistant coaches in twenty twelve, Tara,
and you're twenty sorry, thirty nine years at Stanford. You
never once had a male assistant coach in your couple
stops before Stanford. Even then you hired just one. And
I would love to hear what both of you would
do first if you were put in charge tomorrow of
increasing the number of female coaches in college basketball, Like,
what would be your very first move tar that you
(33:48):
think would help address that?
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Well? I think that, you know, giving women the opportunity
I always encourage them to like work at basketball camps,
to volunteer, to you know, not feel like you you know,
there's a lot of opportunities now because you're you can
have what total of six people on your staff, and
there's there's a lot of opportunities to hire women and
if there's someone that and to really outwork people. I'll
(34:13):
just tell you a quick story my sister, Heidi, who
is ten years younger than me, wanted to go into coaching,
and I said, Heidi, the best thing to do is
to get trained somewhere. And so I said, you can
go three places. You can come to Ohio state where
I am, but I will tell you everything I know. Anyway,
don't do that. So you have two choices. You can
go to Tennessee with Pat Summit, or you can go
to Texas with Jody Conrad, because those were the top
(34:36):
women at the time, you know, coaching. And I said,
I'll pay for your graduate school. I said, but I
have one rule. You have to be the first one
in the office and the last one to leave every day.
So she went to Tennessee and within one week she
called me and she said, I have a full graduate
assistant position. I said, how'd you get that? Because I
was the first one in the office and the last
one to leave. So women can't be They have to be,
(34:57):
you know, really motivated, hard working, but we have to
give them opportunities. And when we look at coaching, you know,
in when back when I was first playing, most of
the jobs, ninety percent of the jobs were women because
there was no money and as soon as money came
into it in prestige. Then now half the jobs in
women's basketball are men, whereas all the jobs in men's
(35:19):
basketball are men. So you know, seventy five percent of
the jobs are going to men and we need to
balance it out. And honestly, I think a staff of
both men and women is ideal, but men won't hire women.
So I'm like, well, I've got to hire women and
give them the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
As the older I get, and I've said this before,
the more I feel like overcorrection is necessary. If we've
given the world a million opportunities to help with the
equity and equality equation and it's not been fixed by
the men in charge, then the women in charge have
to overcorrect. And to your point, I think, yeah, if
you're not included in men's basketball, then you sort of
have a responsibility to have women in women's basketball.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Muffett, what's your take on it?
Speaker 1 (35:59):
I think if you had if someone said tomorrow, your
new job is helping fix this problem, where do you start?
Speaker 4 (36:04):
You know, I think there's there's two parts in that.
One is the athletic director is mostly white men. They're
still doing the hiring and they're hiring a lot of men,
and I think that one of the reasons is the
way women interview and the way they apply for jobs.
I think we need to be better at being more
aggressive going after the job and women talk with we
you know, well, here's what we did, my staff did this.
(36:25):
When you compliment a woman, it's always like, well, everybody
did their job, and we all, you know, put together,
and men are like, here's what I did, and here's
what I can do. And you know, some of the
guys that left my staff, I would think, I thought
I did a lot of those things, but apparently you
did all of those because that's what your resume reflects.
So I think that we need to teach women. First
of all, we need the network better, We need to
(36:46):
put ourselves out there. We need to be able to
take hearing no. Guys don't care if they hear no.
They make up any excuse, Well they were looking for
this and that, and I didn't have that. But women
we take it personally and we're really loyal, like we
like to stay where we are, and I think that's
a part of the punk. We have our networks, we
have our help with our families and all those other things,
But I think a lot of it is still if
(37:06):
a woman fails, the ad is thinking I got to
hire a guy because it didn't work with every.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Woman, right, and that seems to be the case in
so many places. It happens also with coaches of color.
Often the gender or the races to be blamed and
then everybody from that category is out and we're back
to white menigan because they never reflect on each other.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
You know, I want to thank Muffett for contributing to
the Women's Sports Foundation has a legacy fund. It is
in my name, Yeah, but it's really for all women
to develop women, to develop a pipeline of women where
they're you know, given modest scholarship and through the Women's
Sports Foundation, they can then work at a university that
might not have the money to pay for another staff person.
(37:47):
And I also think that you know, both Muffett and
I have worked really hard at mentoring young women to
get them ready for head positions. And if you look
at the success of you know, the coach at Notre
Dame now Ne l Ivy, was a assistant and she
has other assistants that are doing extremely well throughout the country.
(38:08):
So that's what we're doing you know, it's not we're
we're not sitting back complaining about the fact that no, no,
but we're doing something about it. And I'm really proud
of the coaching tree that I have too, most proud
of my sister. You know that it's done so well,
but you know so it's mentoring and it's also supporting
organizations that support women.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Yeah, completely agree.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Twenty nineteen is when you launched the Tara Vander of
Your Fund for the Advancement of Women in Coaching with
the Women's Sports Foundation, And to my question, that might
have been your first step. You weren't assigned the task,
but you took it anyway to help fund and create
that pipeline, which is just so important. And of course
the staffs that you have led throughout both of your
careers are a huge part of helping fix that problem
as well.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
You mentioned your sister Tar.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
I want to ask you quickly the emotions of watching
her coach. You see San Diego in its first ever
NCAA tournament appearance, where there are a lot of phone
calls of advice or did you say, hands off, she's
got this.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
No, you know, she watched our team. She she was
at all those noted Dame games that we talked about,
you know, but you know, I will tell you it
was like a root canal watching and cheering was miserable.
But I was so proud of Heidi. This is the
first year that they were able to go to the
NCAA tournament, and they qualified and they won their turn,
(39:24):
their Big West tournament and both she and their men's
team went. And you know, do you have to take
baby steps?
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (39:31):
I also I think Muff and I both would you know,
we'd look at a bracket. We're always looking at number one,
number two, number three, no four. You know, it's like
who even pays attention to, you know, the sixteen seeds,
and there's Heidi. And I'm like, I was so excited
for her when her name came up. You know, their
school came up, even they had to play, they played
a play in game, but it was it was just
so exciting for her and for us to really under
(39:52):
you know, for the young people that get to go
to the tournament is something really.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Special for sure. So Root Canal watching your sister.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
What about the emotions watching Stanford miss the tournament after
thirty six straight seasons in the dance.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
Well, you know it's uh. I thought, I thought Kate
did a fabulous job this year. And you know, the
the talent was not there. They had an injury for
a player that missed eight games, they had another player
there's out. But she has done Kate has done a
fabulous job, you know, not just coaching but recruiting. And
(40:28):
you know, I think Stanford we're going through a difficult
time with getting a new athletic director, but it will
We'll be back very soon. And I think it's the
team played hard, the team. The team is a very
well coached team, but we need to be bigger and
more athletic and more experienced. So good good days are ahead.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
I think also anytime a legend leaves, there's an inevitability
that there might be some feeling of like, oh, I
don't know that I want to be a part of
this new regime or this this restarting of this program
after for this, you know, incredible success, so that's.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
To be expected. I'll give them some time.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
I try I give both. I mean to follow Muffett,
you know, coach is you know that's a tough that's
a very tough situation. I think Kate, but I think
they're They're very capable. And these are different times too,
you know, all the portal, all the money rev sharing, uh,
(41:26):
you know, collective money. This is a different time. And honestly,
I I am so thankful for the time that I
had as a coach, working with the players I worked with,
working you know, on the sideline against people like Muffett
and Gino and Pat. I have to pinch myself.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
I've had a magical run coach. It sounds like, and
I don't want to speak for you, but it's interesting.
There's a little bit of the good old days kind
of feeling about the days before the ni L and
the transfer portal, and in so many ways the game
is evolving in positive ways. For young women to be paid,
to have opportunity to have a bunch of pro spaces
(42:09):
of WNBA unrivaled and not just overseas, and all these things.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
But it does change the game.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Is there a bittersweet sort of appreciation of the evolution.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (42:19):
I mean, I really agree they should make some money.
I'm all for that. I think they should have to
do something to make the money. I don't think somebody
should just give it to them. I really hate that
they get paid to do community service, which I think
is kind of an oxymoron. You're supposed to be doing
community service for a lot of reasons. I think we're
missing the life skills that we used to teach them about,
(42:43):
all the things that they had to learn, the discipline,
the perseverance. You're maybe not going to start, You're maybe
not going to play a lot as a freshmen. You've
got to earn your way, and kids aren't willing to
do that anymore. I think the combination transfer portal with
the NIL when kids will just call and say, I
want to transfer. How much you given me? That's the
first question they ask. You know, what about you know,
(43:05):
how does it fit?
Speaker 2 (43:06):
You know?
Speaker 4 (43:06):
What about Notre Dame? What about the education? You know,
we've totally lost the education because you're going to three
and four schools. I mean, there's there's just nothing. And
I just think it's really hurting them. I think it's
hurting them for their future. Such a small percentage make
it in the w What are they going to do
when their phone's not going to ring and somebody's not
going to say, here's one hundred thousand dollars to do
(43:26):
absolutely nothing. They have to make their way in the world,
and we're not preparing them to do that.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
I agree one hundred percent and that I do think
that players should have the opportunity. You know, we go
from one extreme where ten years ago you couldn't give
a kid an apple unless you cut it up, and
now you're talking about you know, but when you have
when you have pro basketball, you have guardrails, and we
(43:53):
don't have guardrails. Right now, we don't have guardrails. The
horse is out of the barn and there's no fence
that's run a while. Yes, nil is a good thing. Yes,
pro opportunities are great things. I think I've transferred. I
think transferring is you know, they should have the option
to do that. But when you combine basically tampering, which
we have going on, and that's not allowed in the pros.
(44:14):
We don't have a salary cap, I think we're in
some quick stand with things. And as Muffett has I
think very astutely pointed out, this is not healthy for
young people to be living in this la la land
of you know, they're delusional about their abilities and you know,
like you said, doing getting paid for community service that's
(44:36):
an oxymoron.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, we're in this really interesting space of like appreciating
the things that we've always wanted and asked for, but
also understanding that some of the joy and the positives
that we saw in women's sports as opposed to men's
used to be playing for love of the game, not
getting caught up in the under the table dealings, like
all the stuff that comes when you infuse something with money,
it becomes just another part of a larger capitalist system.
(45:02):
So yeah, I mean, it's a constant check into how
do we get what the players deserve, and also not
ruin what was at the heart of it and what
made it so great. I know you all have to go,
so I have one last question for you. We always
ask people what advice they would give their younger self,
But I feel like the words we tell our younger
self often don't mean much or wouldn't mean much to
that younger person. They don't have the wisdom and the
experience or the context to get it yet.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
So instead I want to ask something you wish you.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Already knew and understood in your twenties about life or
about yourself.
Speaker 4 (45:31):
I wish I would have had more confidence. I don't
think like most women. I think we all struggle with
confidence at one time or another, and just that believing
in yourself and doing what you know is right and
realizing that people are going to criticize you no matter
what you do, so you might as well feel good
about what you do. Take a chance, you know, take
a chance and go after what you want. I was
(45:55):
really reluctant to do that for most of my young life.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
How about you, Tara, I think that you know, I
guess if I were to, if I were to were
able to go back to my twenty five year old self,
I think I would probably take better care of myself.
I would, you know. I was so crazy about working,
and you know, whether it was recruiting or watching video
I think I would have done more things for myself younger,
(46:22):
and as I got older I figured it out. I
just like I needed, you know, time to go to
go to the lake, you know, but to work out,
to eat eat right and not sacrifice, you know, just
just realize it that your life is your life is
not a dress rehearsal and every single day, you know,
and not be I was a little bit, I think,
(46:43):
very one dimensional and just like it was all about work. Yeah,
I would have. I would have had more.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
Fun, more fun, more risks. All right, listen up, twenty somethings,
more fun, more risks. Also, the patriarchy is a fucking trap.
Learn it now. Don't work to appease men, don't align
with men in power. Be the woman in power, and
bring other women with you. That's what I would tell
(47:11):
myself is learn way earlier how much of society's messaging
to women is bullshit, and just start deciding that I
don't have to play any of their rules.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
That's Sarah, Well, Sarah, what else you know? Let it
all out there.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
I just know I waited until the end. I kept
it classy until I showed her myself.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
Tar.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
We don't know each other very well, you know, all right.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
Thank you, Sarah. I just want to just say it's
an honor to be on a panel with Muffett and Muffett,
it's great to see you, and yeah, you do. You
do a tremendous job on television. I think that they
ought to have more coaches talking about the game because
you know what you're talking about. But thank you, appreciates
a great job, and Sarah, thank you for including me.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Thank you both so much for coming on. This was
such a fun, fun time. Thank you so much Tatar
and Muffett for taking the time. We got to take
another break stick around. Welcome back, slaicays. We love that
you're listening, but we want to get you in the
(48:13):
game every day too. So here's our good game play
of the day, y'all. Don't wait to take a big swing.
Don't be so afraid of failing that you don't even try.
Don't be so risk averse that you never take a chance.
If you've been waiting for a sign, this is it.
I'm talking to you and to me. I think we
got to meet this weird, awful, scary moment with more
(48:36):
bravery and self assuredness and audacity than we thought we
had in us. Tara and Muffett said, so, so let's
do it. We'd love to hear from you. Hit us
up on email good game at wondermedianetwork dot com or
leave us a voicemail at eight seven two two oh
four fifty seventy. And don't forget to subscribe, rate and review, y'all.
I tell you every day.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
Have you done it? Have you subscribed? Have you rated
have you given us five stars and given us a
nice review? It's really easy.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Watch tag Notataro's audition to join our team review five
out of five you got the job rating. Tag Noataro
was the hilarious host of the fifth annual Ambi's Awards
here in Chicago, and Good Game was nominated for Best
Sports Podcast.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
Now we did not win. We lost to a curling
show mm hmm, show about a broom.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
But we are not bitter. We're happy for them. As
friend and fellow loser in her category. Pablo Torre said,
I'm just glad Canada felt appreciated somewhere in this country.
And as they say, honestly, just an honor to be nominated.
And it was also an honor to be in the
same room as Tig, one of my faves, especially when
she perfectly nailed the behind the scenes production speak of
(49:43):
every single podcast ever made.
Speaker 5 (49:46):
Now, before we get started, I need to do some housekeeping.
First off, you'll all need your own headphones, so there's
no feedback tonight, and we are recording on our end.
But if you could all just use your voice memos
yes for backup, we'd really appreciate it. And lastly, let's
(50:06):
all hold for ten seconds for room tone.
Speaker 4 (50:20):
Okay, great, we got that tig.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
You're hired. We'll send you the link to join the
next recording. Now it's your turn. Y'all rate and.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
Review, Thanks for listening, and thanks again to Nissan and
the all new Nissan Armada for making this legendary conversation happen.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
We'll talk to you tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You
can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network,
our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive
producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder.
Our editors are Emily Rutter, Britney Martin Knez, and Grace Lynch.
(51:01):
Our associate producer is Lucy Jones and I'm your host,
Sarah Spain
Host
Sarah Spain
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