Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome on and all to the Hemmer Territory Podcast, presented
to you by Fox One. It is a pleasure to
be with you once again. We are in the midst
of the division series. We've already got the Toronto Blue
Jays moving on Scott Coleman to the Alcs. Three final
spots to be decided, So plenty of action going on
on the baseball diamond. But when you're a team that's
(00:21):
not there, it's time to get into the off season.
And that's exactly what we're looking to do in tonight's
episode and Scott Law Firm episode, Coleman and Coleman the
best coman combination when it comes to covering the Braves
and baseball. Always a pleasure to do these with you, Sir.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Hugh was well sewn. Always a pleasure to get the
law firm together. And on the show, we're going to
talk about pitching targets and pitching options for the Braves
and that's exciting, Like this gets to be the exciting
part of the offseason. A lot of opportunities for the
Braves to get better. Let's hope they're willing to spend
the money, maybe to give up a couple of prospects
to really pour some fuel on this fire, because as
(00:59):
we've seen this team, really the shortcoming has been a
lack of pitching and a lack of healthy pitching in
recent years, especially come playoff time. And let's hope they
make some additions this offseason so then kind of get
this team back to where we want them to be.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yeah, and just set the stage a little bit. You know,
We're gonna give kind of a general overlay. We're gonna
kind of, you know, give a general idea of why
exactly pitching should be the focus this offseason, and also
the names that are out there. I just you know,
give a little bit of a spoiler. I believe the
reason why I'm a bit more confident this offseason than
in past off seasons the Braves are going to get
(01:34):
that arm that they've been seeking for, you know, multiple
seasons now, is that they just are going to have
more options to choose from this year. And that's always
a good thing for Alex and Topless. But Scott, let's
get right into it. Why pitching. And the reason I
say that is because when you look at this team
over the past two years, yes, they have underperformed, but
I think that anyone who has followed or covered this
(01:54):
team closely, they would tell you the aspect of this
team that probably was close to being contending level was
the starting pitching when they were healthy. That old saying
that sometimes the best ability is availability. It is never
ranked more true than with the Atlanta Breveers over the
past couple of years. It's injuries and also just in general,
(02:15):
you just have more room to add value to make
this team better through the pitching side because so many
of our position players are locked in place long term.
It's the injuries, so we've got good quality, it's the
injuries that have occurred, but it's just a flexibility to
add value. I think that's why Alex and Thopless is
focused on pitching once again.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, it makes sense, Sean, because assuming this team can
figure out shortstop, whether it's has On Kim or somebody else,
the offense is pretty set. Now. I think they're going
to add an outfielder of some kind, but that can
maybe be a conversation for another day. But shortstop, outfield,
the lineup is basically set. The big question is pitching,
and you can never ever ever have too much pitching.
(02:55):
We have said it before on the show. We're going
to say it a million more times. It's going to
be a theme of the off season. Whenever you feel
like you have enough pitching, go out and add another
starter or add another bullpen arm, because God knows, you're
gonna have injuries, you're gonna have underperformance. And I think
for the Braves, and we talked about this on our
show over the weekend, but if everything goes well, I
(03:16):
think you can feel really good about the depth and
talent this team is going to have in twenty twenty six.
But that's just not a gamble that we or anybody
should be willing to take because more than likely somebody
is gonna get hurt or somebody's Of course, we just
watched the entire Braves opening day rotation hit the sixty
day injured list at some point, plus Spencer Strider's injury.
(03:38):
I mean, it's just you can never account for the
unknown curve balls that are gonna be thrown your way
over the course of a baseball season. Hopefully the Braves
go out and add a reliable arm to this rotation.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Absolutely, And when you think to yourself, you're like, okay, well,
they've added so much pitching over the past few years already,
why is it a need all of a sudden Again,
I mean, I get injuries, but you also have to
think to yourself. Max Freed is a member of the
New York Yankees. Charlie Morton is going into retirement. Unfortunately,
Ian Anderson and a few other promising prospects they did
not work out over the years. So that death that
(04:11):
the Braves while they're building it back up the death
that the Braves had a couple of years ago and
just unfortunately did not work out. That happens across baseball
when it comes to pitching. But this should come as
no surprise because this is the track record of Alex
and Thoppolss. You go back a couple of off seasons ago.
He was looking to add Aaron Nola from the Phillies.
Nola eventually went back to the Phillies for twenty five
million per year. Same set up with Nathan Yavaldi last offseason.
(04:35):
We were tied to him early in the offseason, went
back to the Rangers for twenty five million a year.
Alex and Thoplss I feel has the type of arm
that he wants to add to this rotation, and I
do think that he's willing to spin. But I think
that also plays a part in this, along with the
fact that he's mentioned pitching multiple times as being the
priority over the past few weeks.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, Alex said as much in his end of year
press conference that starting pitching and adding a starter is
a priority. Now we're going to see what exactly happens
over the next six months. But I think you bring
up a good point, Aaron Nola. The Braves are reportedly
in now. I don't know if they were in for
seven years like the Phillies ultimately gave, but it makes
you think that this team, for the right pitcher, is
(05:16):
willing to pay twenty twenty five million plus dollars a
year to add a really good starter to this rotation.
Nathany Evaldi was terrific. We also heard through some sourcing
that the Braves actually felt pretty good about adding Nick
Pavetta last offseason until the San Diego Padres came in
with a creative deal with a player opt out and
(05:36):
some escalators. It didn't work out, but it does give
you the feeling at least here. As we said in
the second week of October, that the Braves and n
thoughtless really do want to add somebody to this rotation,
because then let's say they add one of the dozen
or so names we're going to talk about tonight, with
a healthy Chris Sale, with a healthy Spencer Schwallenbach, hopefully
(05:56):
with a healthy and improved Spencer Strider Waldrip's around Lopez Holmes,
A J. Smiths, Shawver like there's it's not harmed hard
to dream on having one of the very best rotations
in the game if you're able to add somebody to
help stabilize and bring some depth.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Absolutely, and let's not forget that. You know, we talk
about injuries. You know, we talk about these arms that
we want to add. Yes, the injuries that you know,
when we say injuries, you're thinking of the you know,
injuries that kept this team out for multiple months. But
even when they were thriving in the regular season in
twenty two and twenty three, it was the fact that
you had injuries pop up right at playoff time. Alex
and Thoppolis, I'm sure is tired of having quality starting
(06:33):
pitching options, but he can't use them when it matters most,
or he can't reliably use them when it matters most.
I know, that's just part of the game, but when
it happens consistently, things need to change, obviously, and the
reason why we want to get into this immediately when
the offseason starts, Scott is I think that it is
no small factor that this year there just seems to
be more options available, especially in free agency. There are
(06:56):
a few teams out there that clearly could be trade
partners for the break. It feels like that after missing
the past two seasons, despite getting Chris Sale, missing the
past two seasons on some targets he was going after,
but with more options potentially this offseason than in past offseasons,
this could be the time when Alexanthopolis lands that arm
he badly wants.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
And it looks like on paper, this is going to
be a pretty healthy and robust free agent pitching class.
Just some of the names you have Framber Valdez, you
have Ranger Suarez, you have Dylan Sees, you have Michael King,
Zach Gallin, Shane Bieber, Merrill, Kelly, Chris Bassett, and a
(07:37):
handful of other veterans. Now, obviously there's a range there.
Like I would, it's not breaking any ground here that
someone like Framber Valdez or Dylan sees is a lot
better than Chris Bassett. But I think what we're saying
is there's kind of a wide range, and that's probably
helpful when you're trying to be efficient with money and
get the most value as possible that you're not locked
into like three options and everybody else is just total dust.
(08:01):
There's a nice range of pitchers here, some veterans, guys
with a lot of durability, which feels like it's going
to be a talking point and really a point of
emphasis for the Braves. You can always bank or try
to bank on reliability and durability in a rotation. You
need that guy to go out there and pitch every
five days. And sure it's fun as hell to dream
(08:23):
on someone with a lot of potential but maybe can't
stay healthy or hasn't figured it all out. But I
think when I just list off all those names as
potential free agents, the continuing theme is a lot of
them have a long track record of being successful and
being durable in the majors, and I would sure think
that's something the front office is going to want absolutely.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
In other words, the Braves are going to have plenty
of options to pick from. But before we get into
some of those names. We want to talk about some
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(09:05):
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Scott with baseball playoffs here, I think that there are
plenty of names that you can look at, but there's
one right now that sticks up, that sticks out among
the rest, and he's been absolutely outstanding. Of course, we're
talking about Vladimir Guerrero Junior. I would venture to say
(09:28):
there may not be a better hitter in baseball right now,
and he proved that by beating the best sitter in
baseball and Aaron.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Judge that's right. And hey, we are in Atlanta Braves podcast,
and I have to think Sean, that many people listening
to this show are watching the show. Didn't exactly shed
a tear last night when the New York Yankees were
eliminated from the playoffs. The Blue Jays are such a
fun story and vlad Junior just absolutely terrorize them. Hit
(09:55):
above five hundred in the series. His ops against the
New York Yankees in the Alds was above sixteen hundred.
That's really that's pretty good. Yeah, I think it's like
a good week for ronaldccunya Junior when he's on one
of those heaters. It was a lot of fun. I know,
(10:15):
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find myself kind of rooting for the Blue Jays, especially
with the Braves out of the picture.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Yeah, and especially with you know, some of the Blue
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Speaker 1 (12:17):
Again, we want to welcome you to the Hammer Territory
Podcast presented by Fox One, the Fox one app talking
off season, pitching targets and Scott. We kind of in
the first segment we got we got setting the stage
out of the way. Now let's get into the details
as to who could star on that stage this offseason
is potentially the newest member of the Atlanta Brais Now.
(12:37):
I think one thing first to kind of look at
is we get into some of the free agent names.
Is why it may make sense to go the free
agency route rather than the trade route, and Scott to me,
it's options and also it's the fact that it's simply
money that you'll be spending when you look at We'll
get into some trade targets a little bit later in
the show, but you're a bit more limited because of
the amount of teams that you know. You don't you
(12:58):
have a few teams out there that can make but
there are just so many good starting pitching options that
are out there, so many healthy pitching, starting pitching options
that are out there. That's why I think going the
free agent route probably makes sense for the Braves.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah, I would agree. And it's funny, Sean. Before we
started recording, you and I kind of put our heads
together and we're trying to come up with what baseball
teams this offseason we're going to clearly be selling, And
I don't even know if clearly is fair, Like might
be selling is more fair to say, and not only selling,
but have pitchers who would be like a marked improvement
(13:32):
for the Braves. Like, sure, the Colorado Rockies are probably
going to be selling, but do you really want any
Rockies starting pitchers? Probably not, But I mean the Minnesota
Twins might sell off. They do have some nice pieces.
The Saint Louis Cardinals have some nice pieces they might sell,
but a lot of teams, especially with the expanded playoffs,
(13:53):
are not gonna sell like there's we've seen teams like
look at the Toronto Blue Jays. They had seventy eight
wins as a projected win total coming into the year,
and there are four wins away from the World Series.
It feels like with the expanded playoffs, you're going to
see fewer and fewer teams just clearly selling with absolutely
no prayer, and a lot of the teams that have
(14:13):
no prayer don't have much to sell anyway. So it
does feel like, if I was a betting man, you
can never count out Alex Nthopolis from getting really creative
with the deal and maybe adding somebody that nobody expected.
But free agency does feel like more likely of an
avenue for him to add somebody.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
So that's somebody that we're talking about. You know, again,
we're going to go through a list of names, and
we're not necessarily going to narrow it down in this episode.
I think there's a couple of favorite Scott has them
that I have, But I do think that it's important
to kind of establish those boxes that you're looking to
check when it comes to adding a specific starting pitcher,
and I go off of, you know, the fact of
him adding Charlie Morton in the past, which is such
(14:52):
a successful ad trading for Chris Sale, looking to add
in Nara Nola, looking to add a Nathan Eabaldi or
a Nick Pavetta. I believe that he wants to veteran,
someone that has an established track record of being able
to consistently offer good production, probably more often than not
middle of the rotation guy, but could step up to
be a frontline guy. He wants durability. So many of
these starting pitching options that we're going to talk about,
(15:14):
they have several years under their belt of one hundred
and fifty plus aded es. We're in the era of
where one hundred and fifty is the new two hundred
and twenty five. But that makes a big difference to
someone that is durable in playoff exposure. I think that's
the third box that probably has not talked about enough.
A veteran starter who has shown that he has the
ability to perform well when it matters most in the playoffs. Now,
(15:35):
maybe not as many options will check that box, but
I think those are the three boxes that Alex is
really looking to check. With an addition, this offseason.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah. Absolutely, And you know, before people go, well, he
never spends money. You know, Alex is a chief skate.
Ownership is a cheap skate. I mean, you can make
that argument after last offseason. But this team did reset
the luxury tax, which is not a small thing. I
know the Braves claim it wasn't part of their equation.
I think that's a bunch of baloney. But that's you know,
that's probably something we will never have a definitive answer on.
(16:05):
But you know, I think too, with all of these
starting pitchers on the free agent market, the beauty of
a free market is that you kind of let the
other team set the market for you. And like, sure,
do I necessarily think that Framber Valdez is a likely
option for the Braves, who's been very good with the
Houston Astros for years. No, not really. But if everybody's
(16:28):
kind of thinking Valdez is going to get six years,
one hundred and fifty million dollars, I don't think the
Braves are going to give them that deal. But maybe
the market doesn't developed that way and Valdez ultimately settles
for a shorter term deal. Maybe it's two year deal,
a team option you know, whatever it is, I would
like to think that Alex is going to be creative
and open to flexibility in order to add the best
(16:48):
pitcher possible at a reasonable contract, because, frankly, I mean,
bargains in free agency are virtually impossible to find.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
And the other thing about, you know, looking to add
a veteran starter who has been in the league eight
to ten plus years, is that these pictures, these level
of pictures. They know how positive of an opinion many
have about the Braves organization, I think that stands out,
and many of these pictures, probably especially with you know,
the free agent market being saturated that fifteen to twenty
(17:17):
two million dollar range where Alex usually likes to settle
on a significant ad, that probably will work out for
one of these pictures. So that's why I feel like
that this is the year where he will get that
significant arm. But without further ado, Scott, let's get into
some of these names. There's plenty to cover. We're gonna
have many, many more shows getting further into why these
(17:38):
names make sense. But let's set the stage a bit
more with some names that could make sense.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
So I'm gonna come out and just start with my
clear favorite and that's Dylan Sees. I have wanted Dylan
SE's to be a member of the Braves for a
long time. Thirty years old, has spent the last couple
of seasons with the San Diego Padres, and let's get
it out of the way. Dylan SE's is a Scott
(18:04):
Boris client, so that could be an obstacle, although let's
hope that alex in Thoppolis is able to work with
Scott Boris, who also represents Hassan Kim, and maybe those
two will kind of get the good juices flowing, get
Hassan Kim signed to either a one year deal or
a multiple year deal with the Braves, and then move
on to Dylan SE's. I think Dylan Sees has the
(18:24):
clearest path of all the free agents to being like
a legitimate number one starter if everything goes right. He
throws very hard. His fastball averaged ninety seven miles an
hour last year, and he throws a ridiculous slider that
goes eighty nine miles an hour shot. Now, Seas is
not perfect, he did see an uptick in his walks
(18:44):
and his home runs last season, and on the surface,
his era ballooned to four point five to five, which
doesn't exactly scream superb starting pitcher, but all of Caesar's
underlying metrics were more in his career norms. He had
a three point five fifth x FIP expected era. He
gets a ton of strikeouts, a legitimate guy you can
(19:07):
hand the ball to in a playoff scenario and say, Dylan,
go strike out ten of those dudes, and he's he
has the chance to do it. And the fact that
he did not have a great season on a results
basis might work in the Braves advantage. Seas is also
from Georgia. He's from Milton, Georgia, which might be a
factor in where he wants to pitch. So for all
(19:27):
those reasons, I mean, if you tell me the Braves
are going to sign Dylan Sees to any kind of
a contract this offseason, I will be ecstatic on this podcast.
And I believe if you.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Go back to the you know, we got Jared killinick
on a Sunday night. I believe it was the opening
Sunday night of the two than twenty three Winter Meetings
if I'm correct, And I believe it was later revealed
during that weekend that Alex and Toplas I think kind
of hinted at it, or somebody may have said it.
The Braves, I think reportedly may have been close to
getting Dylan Season a trade from the White Sox over
(20:01):
that weekend. Again, I don't I'm not wanting to say
that with full confidence, but I think that there has
been some you know, kind of conversations with that.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
But so there's been Yeah, well, I was gonna say,
started to catch up. There was also the reported interest
at the end of the offseason last year. You'll remember
we got a rumor that both Dylan See's and spoiler
Michael King, who were also going to talk about here
in a little bit, were reportedly of interest for the Braves.
I mean, it makes sense, man, They're both really good pitchers.
And just one other quick note on Dylan SE's. We
(20:29):
talked about reliability and durability over the last five seasons
going back to twenty twenty one, So the season the
Braves won the World Series, Dylan Sea's leads all of
baseball with one hundred and sixty two starts. And not
only does he lead baseball in one hundred and sixty
two starts, he leads everybody by at least four starts.
(20:50):
This dude is the epitome of take the ball every
five days and go. Of course, any pitcher can get hurt.
All it takes is one pitch and you're in trouble.
But in terms of durability and liability, seizes about as
clean of a bill of health as you're gonna find.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Absolutely, And so you know, Scott talked about his favorite
and I'll be honest with you, if we could get
Dylan Cease, I would be absolutely ecstatic as well. Personally,
I think that Cease may be someone who may be
a little bit out of the price range for the Braves,
but you know what Alex and Thopplis may be to
the point to where he's my guy. I'm gonna go
gett a name that I like and I always like.
(21:27):
And Scott, I know that you were familiar with him
as well. Zach Gallan Zach Gallon, formerly of the Arizona Diambacks,
who became a free agent this year. It was the
most inopportune time for him to have the worst year
of his career as an established major league starter, But
I just I am a huge fan of his and
I feel like that if he had the season that
(21:48):
he had, perhaps He's someone that maybe you know, could
come on a shorter term, higher aav type deal to
kind of get himself right and go back into the
free agent market, or he may just be okay to
settle for a long period of time with a winning
team like the Braves. But the two biggest reasons why
I am a fan of Zach Gallen is because he's durable.
As we've discussed, for out of the past five years,
(22:11):
at least one hundred and forty eight innings I believe
one hundred and eighty four or more in three of
the past five years. But another big thing three top
ten Cy Young finishes. This guy would be the perfect
example of someone who can pitch like a number two starter,
but step up to be there as the number one
starter when.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
You need that.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
And if you had a Zach Gallon with a Spencer,
Swelling Box, Spencer Strider, Chris Sale, you've legitimately got four
number one and number two starterspilling out your rotation to
where if one of them is not available in the playoffs,
you still have as stronger rotation as anybody. So he's
the type of guy who I really think could fit
into that price range and with his track record I
(22:52):
think will age well. Also, he's only thirty. He's number
one guy on my list in terms of maybe this
if a cease is too expensive, a Zach Gallon could
really make a lot of sense.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yeah, I mean Zach Gallen was I mean, frankly pretty
bad in the first half of the season, but he
was much better in the second half. And you know,
he's not somebody who overpowers you on the mound, like
he's good command when he's on. His fastball sits around
ninety three ninety four, which you can obviously work with,
but you know, not a seats who can throw ninety
(23:23):
eight ninety nine. I think about that start. He was
humming a hundred against the Braves a couple of years ago.
But you Gallan, he's a veteran. I do think you'd
be buying low a little bit, which is always you know,
it's the all by Low sell high. I think you'd
have an opportunity to buy on a clearly talented guy.
Maybe Gallan doesn't have like legitimate number one cy young
potential anymore. But I think you made a good point
(23:45):
that if you do get mostly healthy years out of sale.
Schwan Bachen Strider. I mean, if Zach Gallon is your
number four or even number three, if one of those
guys does go down, I think you're going to be
more than.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Okay with it, absolutely, and that that's the whole point,
is that you know that you know. I think with
the Braves one of the biggest things that they're looking
for is which of these starting pitching options can we
rely on the most. We're who can we gain the
most certainty with? And I want to make it clear,
I will take Dylan Seas over Zach Gallen any day
(24:16):
of the week, and the reason why is because of
the Brave's ability to maximize on pitching talents. But I
also put a lot of value in certainty. I know
he had a bit of a struggle in the first
half this year. I just think with Zach Gallen there
comes a lot of certainty, but a lot of good
quality as well. But Scott, we're just getting into a
few of these names. Let's hear a few more that
really stick out to you from this free agent class
that you feel could move their way to the top
(24:38):
of the Braves wish list.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
So I mentioned his name a moment ago, But Michael
King does have a mutual option with the Padres, although
everybody expects him to become a free agent. And if
folks need to remember Michael King, he started Game one
of the wild Card around against the Braves last year.
I mean he just shoved it down their throat. I
mean it was as dominant of a pitching performance as
(25:02):
I have seen. Michael King when he's healthy is really good.
And that's the key point here. So this past year,
Michael King had a pinched nerve in his right throwing
shoulder and ended up missing three months. Funny enough, I
think he did it the night before he was set
to face the Braves, and King was scratched like two
hours before, and everyone was kind of downplaying it, and
(25:25):
then he went on the il and then he missed
three months. So a nerve issue in your shoulder is
not a super common problem for pitchers. We'll see how
he checks out medically. And then when he tried to
come back, he also then developed some knee inflammation that
King said was a product of him trying to come
back too fast as the Padres were in the playoff chase.
(25:47):
So Michael King is not going to get a mega contract,
I don't think, because he's coming off a year where
I think he only made seven or eight starts, but
he was fantastic in twenty twenty four, and kind of
like a gallon, they're not a perfect one for one comparison,
but you are buying love a little bit, and clearly
Michael King still has top of the rotation upside. And
(26:08):
then another name who I thought was maybe possible for
the Braves this time a year ago is Shane Bieber.
Once upon a time, Bieber was one of the very
best pitchers in baseball. He underwent Tommy John surgery in
April of twenty twenty four, so he's about sixteen months
er boo from that now, and after missing the early
parts of this past year, he was actually traded to
(26:31):
Toronto and had a solid three point five to seven
ERA in seven starts. As you can imagine, Bieber did
not look terrific and did not look like him old self.
But this is going to be a bet on a
talented guy who again, you're probably not going to have
to go five years and one hundred million dollars on
Shane Bieber. It'd be very entoughpless like to go out
(26:51):
and buy a guy who maybe isn't at his peak value,
with some room for growth and ability to get back
to where he was just a few years ago.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Absolutely, And and you know those names, you know, also
with those names, it's you know, Shane Bieber. You know,
you go back to twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, he
was thought of as being perhaps the most you know,
he at that time was thought to be an even
more you know, had better potential than like a tark
Scoobo or someone along those lines. He was thought to
be the it picture a few years back in court
(27:21):
juries have read their ugly head as we more than
no But I think that he would potentially be a
good ad. A couple of other names that I definitely
think could make sense. And I bring these names up
becomes of familiarity and reported past interest. But we know
that Alex and Thoppless, he's had passed interest in you know,
(27:43):
current Phillies pictures. You know, I believe that he was
interested in zach Leiler before he went to the Phillies.
He obviously was interested in there. And Noah, another Phillies pitcher,
will be a free agent this year, and he's a
name we know all too well. Ranger swore as if
you can't beat them, join them, or or if them
will you is the best way to describe it. But
with Rangers Fourrez again not a nover'repowering guy. I definitely
(28:05):
think that that is important to establish. But someone has
just got a consistent track record of knowing how to
get guys out and also someone that has extensive quality
work in the postseason. I think he's definitely someone that's durable.
He's still young to where you can get good years
out of him. I think that he would be an
(28:26):
excellent potential addition for the Braves. And then when it
comes to recent reported interest, if you go back to
the twenty four trade deadline Zach Eflin, who at the
time was with the Tampa Bay Rays, the Braves had
had reported interest with him multiple times throughout the twenty
four season. He eventually went to the Orioles last year,
had a bit of injury issues that he was working through.
(28:48):
But he's someone who potentially, could, you know, not necessarily
cost that much in terms of money if he wants
to make right deal. He's only thirty one himself. But
if the Braves have had interest in him, I think
he's the kind of arm that Alexanthopoulos looks at and
is like, Okay, I know he hasn't had just you know,
just an awesome career so far. But he's the type
(29:08):
of guy who I think Alex likes to work with
that they can get more out of than he previously
had shown. So he based off reported interest in the past.
Is another name that could be an under the radar
type of addition.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah, yeah, it's an interesting call. And e Flynn actually
I think underwent back surgery a couple of months ago,
and I mean this past year was completely lost. I
would be interested in adding Zach Eflin if he's like
the second guy they sign, you know, they go out
and sign a better, more established arm and then e
Flyn's willing to take like a one year bounce back. Absolutely, dude,
(29:41):
like he could be your fifth starter. He could be
a bullpen arm. Like you can find ways because as
of even two years ago, Eflyn was really good. And
you said the Braves were reportedly interested, and hey, if
Ranger Suarez is interested in Atlanta and the money is right,
that dude just absolutely kills the Braves. It is infuriating
(30:01):
to watch because he's just dropping like ninety mile an hour,
sinkers on the outer half, and apparently nobody can hit
it because he just works seven scoreless against the Braves
seemingly every time he goes out there. Not a power pitcher.
As he gets older, I think he's someone who's probably
going to age pretty well because he doesn't rely on
ninety eight to be effective. But you know, not a
not a power guy. Kind of unconventional in the modern game.
(30:23):
But I'm fascinated to see what kind of contract Ranger
Suarez gets and if the Phillies kind of let him leave.
I know he's going to be a free agent, but
I would sure think he'd be interested in coming back
to Philly. You know, we'll see. Maybe the Phillies just
kind of overpay to make sure he comes.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Back, absolutely, and you know it could be interesting, you know,
because they've got they've certainly got a powerful starting rotation
coming back themselves. You can kind of call the Aaron Nola,
you know contract a bit of an overpay, at least
to this point in it. But the point is is
he's definitely going to be an interesting one to watch.
But in general, I think it's pretty clear there's a
hierarchy of free agent options this year. Certainly would love
(31:00):
the Braves to add at the higher part of that hierarchy.
But if they have to settle down, and that may
be Alex's game. Letting a quality starting pitcher who for
some reason has kind of fallen through the cracks, that's
when Alex can pounce to really get that valuable contract.
So it may be that he waits a little bit
before he adds a type of free agent guy. But
as we've named, plenty of options to look at. But
(31:22):
we also know Alexandoppless loves to make the noteworthy trade.
He has made a career of doing it. And so
we're going to talk about some more names who potentially
could be on the trade market this offseason for the Braves.
Welcome back to the Hammer Territory podcast presented by Fox
One and so Scott, we just talked about some free
agent options, some options that could make sense on the
(31:45):
free agent market. Again, they just cost money, so that's
why they may make the most sense. But Alex and
Dopplass He's added Chris Sale before through trades. He's added
David Price back in his days with the Toronto Blue
Jays through trades. He's someone that knows how to work
the trade market not only effectively but creatively, and so
(32:07):
he could go this route once again. And the thing
that stands out to me is that this is the
type of move where if the free agent market just
winds up being too costly, you could see Alex pounce
on the right deal quickly.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Yeah. I mean, I think, as we talked about earlier,
it's always hard to find good starting pitching that's available
for anything less than like a complete king's ransom, because
teams don't want to give it up because starting pitching
is so hard to find. But I do think there's
probably a couple of teams who are going to have
arms available who the Braves could make a deal with.
(32:40):
The farm system is a little bit deeper than it's
been in recent years, which is only going to help
trying to get a deal done. And if the Braves
have envisions of maybe adding a high dollar closer, or
maybe a multiple relievers, or adding an impact outfield bat,
it might make sense to try to trade for a
veteran arm instead of sign one to somebody who either
(33:03):
has team control that's cheaper, or even just maybe can
get that team to throw in some money to help
cover the cost next year.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Absolutely, again being creative. It's worked out, it hasn't worked out.
It worked out with Chris sal did not work out
with Jared Kellenick. But at the end of the day,
if the right player is out there, that could certainly
be a route that Alex can go. So let's identify
that right player. But first we need to identify where
though that right player is currently playing, what teams could
make sense for the Braves to potentially contact. Again, this
(33:35):
is why I think free agency may make more sense
than the trade market because there's a limited number of
teams out there, but that doesn't mean that there are
clear trade partners. That's Scott Alex and Thopplis has had
a history of talking with in the past as well.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Yeah, I think one team that really stands out as
the same lo as Cardinals. Now. I think we all
thought the Cardinals might be ready to sell and burn
it down a year ago, and they really didn't do
much of anything in the offseason. So Sonny Gray is
a name I'm going to bring up for probably the
ninth year in a row on this podcast. Sonny Gray
is now thirty five years old and he makes a
(34:13):
lot of money. So that's probably the biggest total here.
Saint Louis would have to cover some of the money
because they front loaded his three year contract. Sonny Gray
makes thirty five million dollars next season. Sean, Well, that's
that's light money in the days of Sean Coleman. But
for Sonny Gray, that's a lot of cash, and so
you would imagine Saint Louis would have to cover some
(34:35):
of that. We'll see what they want to do. But
Sonny Gray, if the Cardinals are willing to cover some
of the salary, was very good again this past season.
He had a FIP a next FIP in the low threes,
had a stellar twenty six point seven percent strikeout rate
and only a five percent walk rate, which is really impressive.
He does not walk people, and once again the theme
(34:56):
of this podcast, Sonny Gray very durable. He has made
twenty three or more starts every year since twenty fourteen,
other than the COVID year, and over the past five years,
Sonny Gray has averaged upwards of twenty eight starts a year.
As the epitome of taking the ball every fifth day,
(35:17):
He's going to be thirty six. He may not be
a true number one at this point. But again, kind
of what we were saying earlier, if you could add
someone like Sonny Gray and some money to this rotation
along with Sale and Schwallenbach, Strider Waldrop, that's really really
good Braves.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
If it been linked to him in the past, he
very much would be a kind of a you know,
five years later version of Charlie Morton, you know that,
you know, loosely similar repertoire, same portion of their careers.
You think with the Braves he probably could stay effective
later on his career, similar to Sale, where you get
him with one year left on his contract, but if
he excels here, he probably would want to stay, so
(35:56):
it would make sense. And for the Cardinals with that
price tag, he may not cost that much at the
Braves would be willing to take on a good portion
of that contract. So I definitely think that he stands
out as a potential option. But other names that maybe
get people a little bit more excited, are you know
out there as well? Some teams that I think could
make sense for the Braves to potentially go and just explore.
(36:19):
You've got the Minnesota Twins, You've got the Floor or
the Miami Marlins, both of those teams are kind of
in limbo right now and.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Or looking to rebuild.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
And you also have the Texas Rangers, who we know
potentially are looking to cut financial costs this year as well,
and so Scott. Those are just some teams that make sense.
I'm into names in a few moments, but first, when
you get your thought, any other teams and a few
other names in the trade market that could make sense
beyond Sunny Gray for you.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Oh man, it's tough. I mean, just looking around, like,
let's do a really quick. Blue Jays not selling, Yankees,
no Red Sox. No, maybe the Tampa Bay Rays, but
I don't know if they really have much. The Orioles
are probably trying to contend. Still, Cleveland's not going to sell.
The Tigers are not going to sell. Royals aren't the
(37:08):
Twins we talked about. The White Sox are obviously in
a rebuild, but you know, they don't have a lot
to offer even if they wanted to sell. You know,
looking at the American League West, the Angels or probably
potential sellers, but again don't they You know, these teams,
these bad teams do not have much in the way
of good, controllable starting pitching who they would want to trade,
(37:30):
or if they do have good pitchers, they might be
really young and cheap. They want to keep them around
because maybe they feel like they can contend in a
couple of years. And then in the National League, which
was really flat this year, Phillies, Mets, you're not working
to deal with them. Maybe the Marlins, like you said,
the Nationals don't really have much to sell. I mean,
maybe like Mackenzie Gore could become available, might be an
(37:53):
interesting name for the Braves. You know, again in the
Central we talked about the Cardinals, the Pirates. I mean,
unless they want to make Paul's schemes available, I don't
necessarily see a fit there. And then in the West,
I think you have four teams that want to contend,
and then the Rockies are just an absolute wasteland. So
it's it's hard man, like I wish there were twelve
(38:13):
teams wor it's like, wow, these are obvious sellers. Maybe,
like I'm looking at the Pirates, maybe Mitch Keller could
be a possibility. But again, at least to me second
week of October, I feel like they're more likely to
go through free agency.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Absolutely. Now there are a few names that have been
connected out there. You know, one popular name that was
out there at the trade deadline that I think many
teams are going to be acquiring on is Joe Ryant
of the Twins, who's just been pretty straightforward again kind
of he's not necessarily stuff wise, but just in terms
of track record wise, resume wise, very much like a
(38:50):
Zach Gallon before Gallon struggled this year, you know, just
simply one of the top you know, ten to fifteen
guys over the past two or three years in the
American League. Controllable think for a few more years he
could be an option, but maybe not so much because
I think many teams are going to be on him.
His teammate Pablo Lopez, who the Braves are familiar with
from his days with the Miami Marlins. That is someone
(39:10):
that you could potentially see the Braves kick the tires on,
because we know the Braves have reportedly talked with the
Twins since they had potential interest in Byron Buxton at
the trade deadline, so that could be a name. The
Texas Rangers, who I mentioned, may look to cut some
financial costs. They have a lot of money tied into
their starting rotation. Could Alex and Doppolas pick up that
(39:31):
bone and say, hey, we were interested in Nathan Deabaldi
just a year ago. He had a bit of injury
issues this year, two years fifty million dollars left on
his contracts. Could they work out a deal with him?
That could be an option that makes sense as well.
And we know that the Miami Marlins are not afraid
to trade within their division. Jesus Lozardo went to the
Phillies just last offseason. Sandy Ocontra, I know that he
(39:55):
has struggled. I know he's come back from injury. I
know he's not who he was in twenty twenty two.
But if I'm correct, I believe three years thirty million
left on his contracts. I think that still is a
valuable contract that you may be able to get into discount.
Since he struggled a bit this year, that could be
a name that could make sense as well. But to
Scott's point, the same reason that we're interested in these names,
(40:18):
so many other teams are going to be interested in
these names as well, because many of those names that
we mentioned are under control and could potentially come at
a discount. So that again is another reason why the
trade market may not make that much sense.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah, yeah, you know. I think the Braves will obviously
call twenty nine baseball teams and say, hey, what are
you thinking on this guy? Where do you value Joe Ryan?
Where do you value Sandio Contra? And are you cool
trading a guy who's been in your organization his entire
career to the Braves just down the road. We'll see.
But I do think it's encouraging. The Braves have a
(40:53):
little more farm system depth. They have a good amount
of pitching in the upper levels of the miners, and
more of their position player talent is in the lower levels.
But there's still some intriguing prospects down there. So sure,
if you can make a trade, generally you're going to
get better value by going through the trade market. You're
not going to necessarily have to pay as high of
a dollar cost to add in trades. But of course
(41:13):
then you are giving up prospects the farm systems finally
come into life. Do you now want to cut all
your prospect talent in half at this point? I don't know.
You might also give up a draft pick this offseason
in order to sign somebody who's good that's another consideration.
But you know, it's all a big calculation for Alex
and Thopolss, and hopefully he had someone good, you know,
like I don't necessarily need Paul schemes, but I need
(41:37):
someone we can be like excited about, like honest to
goodness excited about Sean. We come on into a pod
and we're like pumped up for the season now because
they've added this player or that player. I really hope
they kind of invest in what they need to invest in,
which is a middle or frontline starter, add some firepower
to the back end of the bullpen, and then add
one beat excuse me, one bat to the lineup in
(42:00):
that outfield, DH Mold.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
And you probably are looking, yeah, looking at the bullpen.
But just think about it this way. Why would Alex
and Thoppliss potentially want to add more quality to what
may currently be the most you know, filled with quality
aspect of his team. Please go look at the rotations
that have been pitching in the playoffs for some of
these teams. Go look at some of these names that
(42:23):
have been pitching. Now, to their credit, they pitched will
but imagine seeing some of those rotations and then seeing
what the Braves have if you've got Chris Sale, Spencer,
Swelling Box, Spencer, Strider, and one of these names that
we mentioned added to the cause. That is so many
arms that can go through an opposing playoff lineup multiple times.
(42:45):
And I know, again it's all about health. But the
more that you have of those type of arms, if
you were to lose one, you could pop another right
back in there in a big situation. I think that's
a big reason why Alex is wanting to add an arm.
And to end with this, Scott, I feel like there
should be a higher level of confidence he'll get that
arm added now if he does. If he does, I
(43:07):
think that the big moves will hopefully be extending Hasan
Kim and getting this notable arm added. But if that
is the two big moves of your off season, I
consider that a successful offseason.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Oh me too, I mean really, I really like the
idea of Hasan Kim. Let's get him extended signed, opt
in whatever you have to do, and then add a
frontline starter and then add a closer, and I would
feel pretty good about this Braves team's chances. Now, of
course they'll add little pieces depth you add somewhere to
the bullpen, who isn't maybe an a one relieve option,
(43:41):
but yeah, it's it's an exciting spot because if you
can tell yourself, the Braves are going to spend or
give up the prospects required to add these positions of need,
this could be a really good roster on paper. And sure,
they have to go out and they have to perform.
They can't have half the lineup having career worst first
halfs of the season like we just watched. You have
(44:03):
to hope the injury fortune is a little better. But
you know, let's go, let's get back to the playoffs.
It sucks not having the Braves in October. They've won
how many baseball games have they won since the World
Series in the playoff two? Like right, Like they won
one game in twenty two, one game in twenty three,
none last year, none this year. We need to get
(44:23):
back to being in the playoffs, making deep runs and
being a legitimate World Series contender. I think they have
a real chance to do that this offseason.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
Yeah, since they celebrated in Houston two and ten in
twelve playoff games between twenty two and twenty four, And
of course you know the other you know news today
we don't want to go without mentioning this, and I
think it is notable the Braves did part ways with
long time head of pitcher development in the organization, Paul Davis.
Now I think that it goes without saying his track
(44:52):
record was quite successful in identifying talent. But again we
mentioned picture development. You have to feel that the amount
of injuries that have stacked up, especially in some of
our younger arms, probably played into that decision. The notable
thing about this to me is that it means that
again this organization is looking to change its course with
(45:13):
how it does things. Now, I'm not going to sit
here and say I know exactly what that means in
the exact details of that, I feel confident in saying
the Braves may not have those exact details as of yet,
but they're making organizational changes at different levels. So that
is notable as well. So when we go out and
try to get this arm that potentially is going to
be more durable than other arms that we've had in
the past, add them to what hopefully will be better injury. Look,
(45:36):
you could be in a very good spot very quickly.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Yeah, let's hope. I mean, good Lord Seawan, this team
deserves some fortune on the injury side. I mean, the
last couple of years have been rough, and then of
course you have the injuries right before the playoffs two
in recent years, which just really was a kick in
the kick in the groin. And yeah, you know you
mentioned Paul Davis, director of pitching development with the Braves
(46:00):
since twenty twenty, was let go. I don't know, maybe
something behind the scenes, maybe just a difference in philosophies
there was. That was an interesting report from Carlos COLASO
Baseball America. But the Braves, like you said, I mean
that they're evaluating and making changes and hopefully they're for
the better.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
That is what we're all focused on, that durn mute button.
That is all we're focused on, is the fact that
we're wanting to get things done for the better. And Scott,
I couldn't have asked, you know, for you know, hey,
Steven Brad on the same level. But I couldn't ask
for a better group of guys to talk about this
with all off season then you, Brad and Steven. Obviously,
(46:39):
it makes sure to stick with Hammer Territory your number
one source when it comes to covering the Braves again,
presented by Fox One, of course, part of the Foul
Territory family of podcasts. Find Hammer Territory as well as
Foul Territory across all forms of social media. Myself at
stats sac on Twitter, Scott at Scott Coleman fifty five. Listen,
we're going to get into some of these, dive deeper
(47:01):
into them, along with some offensive players all off.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Season to do that.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
But make sure you stick with us because we're going
to have you covered no matter what until next time.
For Scott Coleman, Sean Coleman, here go Braves. We'll talk
to you again soon here on the Hammer Territory Podcast