July 29, 2025 • 55 mins
NOTE: Ronald Acuna Jr. injury live reaction at the end of the episode.
Episode 240 of the Hammer Territory Podcast features Stephen Tolbert and Shawn Coleman discussing the upcoming Trade Deadline for the Atlanta Braves, Ronald Acuña Jr.'s injury, Erick Fedde's debut, and much more.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Welcome one and all to the Hammer Territory Podcast. My
name is Sean Coleman. Hope wherever you are and wherever
you are listening to, hope that you oh there, we
are just standing right here across the room. There we go.
Welcome to the Hammer Territory Podcast. Gotta make sure that
you see loud and clear, that proud to be their braves,
background whatever. But hey, we've got some excitement in the
(00:45):
room because Stephen Talbert is back. That is correct, Gulliver
himself back from his travels. Very excited to have him back. Stephen.
I hope that you are well rested, sir, A brand
new man with an awesome how's everything going, sir? Welcome back?
Not the damn things changed?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yeah, I was. What's up, buddy. It's great to be
back on with you. I miss talking to you every week.
I actually did miss the show. Even though the team sucks,
I miss talking about him. It's one of my favorite
things to do, even when they're bad. So it's good
to be back. It is funny watching the games and
just being like, suck right back into the you know,
(01:25):
just the absolute shit show that is the twenty twenty
five season. But it is what it is. And you know,
it's trade deadline week, and so we're gonna focus on
the main thing, which is the trade deadline. Right now,
the Braves have some very interesting pieces who are playing
better at a really opportune time and maybe help the
(01:47):
Braves out by Thursday's deadline, six pm deadline on Thursdays,
the trade deadline. So yeah, a couple of things to
get to. Obviously, we had an injury in tonight's game
that we're gonna talk about. But as always, it's great
to better with you, buddy and your muted look at this,
this is just class.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Hey, hey, I was saying, I was saying, glad to
have you back. It's always always good to be with you.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Man.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I hope you and your family had a wonderful time.
But let's get right into it. Yes, you know that
the Braves kind of surprisingly, you know, it's kind of
you know, disappointing that they haven't made a trade so far,
because we've had two straight days of trades, and that,
of course is relevant today. Eric Fetti, who the Braves
traded four on Sunday. He started tonight in Kansas City
four point two innings, give up four innings, pitch. He
(02:33):
looked like a pitcher who was traded to come, who
is acquired to come and eat innings for a team
that's not looking to contend. And that's exactly what he
looked like. But of course, Steven, the other news is
is that we made another deal for the same reason,
acquiring veteran starter Carlos Grasco College. Grasco has had what
a fifteen what twelve to fifteen year career in the majors.
(02:54):
I know that he's had some injury history, but again,
his acquisition is nothing more than just bringing in an
arm that could eat in needs for the Braves. He
had shown the ability to do that at Triple A
after he had been designated for assignment earlier this year.
Your thoughts on the Fetti Carrasco trades and the fact
that we got some veteran leadership that means absolutely nothing
(03:15):
other than just, hey, go through one hundred pitches.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, listen, we were calling for this back when sale
got hurt like six weeks ago. I'm kind of I
don't know really why they took so long to do it.
I don't know why they just decided to go bullpen
game after bullpen game this is what we were expecting
them to do a while ago, and it took like
six weeks to get it done. But yeah, these kind
of guys, these guys who are terrible. Listen to both
(03:39):
these guys. Fetti was dfaed by the Cardinals and the
Braves picked him up. Carrasco was in the Yankees' Triple
A team or something like that. I can't remember exactly
what it was. But both these guys are bad, and
they're supposed to be bad. I mean, that's why they're
available for nothing. But it's better than throwing your prospects
who aren't ready to be in the majors, throwing into
(04:00):
the wolves. And that's what we didn't really understand about
what was happening with the Diddy or Flintest stuff. I
just go get guys like this who can just eat innings.
It doesn't matter how bad they are the Brave. Listen.
If you haven't caught on by now, I hope that
you have caught onto the fact that the Brave season
is effectively over, Like it's not actually over. They got
to play games, but this season's going nowhere and it has
been for a while. So this is what you do.
(04:22):
You go find a couple of This is this is
like when you you know, when you pop three tires
on the interstate and you get three donuts, and you
got to get the last fifty miles to the service station.
And that's what the Braves did. They went and found
a couple of donuts to stick on the car so
they can drag it to the service station, which is
the off season, and just get it to the house
(04:44):
without anything else burning down. And that's what these guys are.
That's what I expect them to be. I expect them
to be terrible. These games will not be fun to watch,
but it's better than burning through your prospects. So this
is what they should have done.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Absolutely. And the thing is is that you know, we've
talked about it, you know, second half storylines. Watch some
of our prospects, see what they can do at the
triple A level, dole level, what have you. That's going
to be interesting to see if it makes sense. If
one of them were just absolutely you know, doing great
in the minors and you want to give them a
spot start, maybe a Hurston waldrit for instance, go ahead,
(05:19):
see what he's got. Get an idea of where Hurston
Waldrick could be next year. Something like that makes sense.
But you know, Burning Jr. Richie passed his innings limit
for this year to pitch in the majors. That doesn't
make sense, and that's why you go and make this
move for the starters that they did. But of course
we talk about the season being effectively over, and Scott
(05:40):
and I talked about it on multiple occasions last week. Steven,
that means that the whole mentality for the team it's
going to change. And we saw an aspect of that tonight.
Ronald Acune Junior, it appeared last night Monday night that
he was favoring his right side a bit, and then
tonight on a couple of different plays going into foul
territory and then running after a ball in the right center,
he was not him so running down those balls, and
(06:02):
so the Braves removed him from the game. We later
come to find out that it was a right achilles tightness.
Now I mentioned that there's no indication or anything that
it's some type of serious concern. It seems to be
more precautionary. But when it comes to an achilles, Steven,
you mentioned that's not anything you want to hear when
it comes to an achilles. You have every reason to
(06:23):
not only be precautionary in normal situations, but especially when
you have no reason to push your true franchise player.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, I mean, it would have been great if the
team could have hit us with like a calf tightness.
I know that's basically the same thing. But anytime you
see the word achilles, your hard stops, of course, because obviously,
if you tear that thing, it's a it's a year
plus injury. So and I'll buy all reports, all signs.
It looks relatively minor, pretty precautionary, but at this point, like,
(06:59):
it wasn't done me. If they still put him on
the IL. It wasn't done me if they I don't
think he was gonna play tomorrow anyways, because he's been
dealing with back tightness at times. He's looked uncomfortable in
the field, like something's bothering him. Whatever it is, Sit
the dude for as long as he needs. I don't care.
Call him in six months for all I care. Like
(07:19):
we don't need to see Ronald Kuna Junior play any
more games in twenty twenty five. If he's not physically
one hundred percent, there's there's nothing you can gain and
a ton you can lose. So my take is, I'm
not a doctor, I'm not obviously, I'm not examining him.
But if there's anything anything remotely close to an injury,
(07:43):
you sit him, and you sit him for as long
as it takes to get him one hundred percent healthy
and then set him one more day and then play it.
And you know, there's just absolutely no point in risking
anything with Ronald, especially if it's got anything to do
with an achilles. Just rusting rest and rest and wresting.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Absolutely and it sucks to see, you know, overall, Ronald
Cooney Junior, you just know, wants to play ball. Like
That's the thing that stands out to me about these
players that you know, we consider to be our core,
we consider to be the reasons why it's not far
fetched to see the Braves wanting to contend again. In
twenty twenty six, Austin Riley just came back from from
(08:24):
an injury. Chris Sale, Spencer swelling Boy, Ronald Cooney junior,
Spencer Strider was just out for a year. These guys,
part of the reason that makes them so great is
they just love to play ball and they just consistently can't. Like,
I'm not blaming this year on injuries. I want to
make that clear. Injuries are a factor into this season.
They've been an unfortunate factor in two past seasons. We'll
(08:45):
talk about them in a bit more later on in
the episode, but to me, they're not the factor into
why we've sucked this year. It just sucks that these
players that we know love to play the game simply
cannot do it consistently without having to deal with these
indies or or they're having to sit to the side
even when they're healthy, potentially because we don't want to
(09:05):
risk further injury when what we're doing right now doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah, it feels like we made fun of the Mets
for all those years because they couldn't keep anybody on
their roster healthy. It feels like that's come back to
bite us a little bit, like almost like you know,
the World Series we won in twenty one, it's like,
you know, all the good grace that came with that,
It's like, here's the other shoe, you know, the other
side of that coin is just like crazy injury, bad
(09:32):
luck the last two years. And no, this team was
bad before it lost its entire rotation, but losing the
entire rotation is obviously going to take them to a
whole nother level of bad. And obviously if you have
injuries to Acuna or any of your other star position players,
it's just a whole other level of misery. So the
Braves are do some good injury luck, at least starting
(09:53):
in twenty twenty six. Obviously twenty twenty five is coming
gone at this point, but my god, can we get
a season where we just not even have like perfect
injury luck, just like normal injury luck. I mean, it's
just been it's been absurd the last two years.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
And even before that, like you know, and it happens
to our best players, like it's.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Not only and they're like they're like season long injuries.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, it's significant injuries. So you know, again, not blaming
this year on injuries at all. It's it's just a
simple truth. It's just unfortunate that there's a layers to
the disappointment that we see in twenty twenty five, and
the one difference between injuries and all the other factors
that potentially could be corrected if you keep seeing injuries
to your pitching staff, especially or injuries to the level
(10:38):
of like an Achilles for Ronodkune Junior. Again, don't want
to scare any when it doesn't appear that there's any
serious injury. The point that I'm getting at is these
injuries that keep occurring when we get into the second
half of the season, if they're serious, they now start
to affect twenty six and that's when it really gets unfortunate.
But hey, we've got plenty of time to talk about
the last two months of the season in twenty six.
(10:59):
Let's talk about the now, the excited to ask back
to being for less than forty eight hours away from
the trade deadline. More of that in just a moment
after a word from our partners Krats.
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Speaker 1 (12:10):
All right, Steven, So let's get right into what everybody
really wants to talk about this week with where we
are in the baseball calendar, and that of course is trades.
And you know, we've seen some you know, pretty significant
trades that have occurred, some lower level trades. It seemed
like that's going to kind of be the level that
trades are going to be this year. You're not really
going to see a lot of superstar names or even
all star level names trades involved in trades more just
(12:31):
kind of moves on the margin roll players that can
boost bull pins or you know, bottom of the orders,
what have you. But this clearly is though a seller's market.
What I mean with that is is that if you
are a clear seller, you could have an opportunity to
get a pretty relevant return for now and beyond if
that is your goal. And that's where the Braves find themselves.
(12:52):
So let's kind of go through the names here and
we'll start with marcel Oz Ozuna, of course has been
sitting more often as late as the brain is starting
to transition into that Drake Baldwin Sean Murphy Catcher DH
roll kind of just you know, giving Marcello Zu an
indication of how the rest of the season would go,
because that's what they're going to be focused on with
the future. But the last two games, Azuna has reminded
(13:14):
people that he can still make a difference with the
bat and that's great to see. And with the fact
that you just don't see the likelihood of many notable
names position player wise moving at the trade deadline, that
that Tho was in his recent performance may boost the
return that the Braves could look to get.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Yeah, so this is interesting. So I think the Braves
met a very tactical I think they made a very
tactical decision when they decided about three weeks before the
deadline to start sitting Marcel, and I think what they
were trying to relate to him, either directly or indirectly,
(13:53):
was this is what's going to happen the rest of
the season, and so if you want to continue to
build your value for your free agency in the winter,
what's going to be best for you is if you
let us trade you to a team where you'll play
every day because they're trying to win a you know,
whoever we trade you to is trying to win a
playoff game or you know, win a pennant or whatever
(14:14):
it is. And obviously that matters. Because Marcell has ten
five rights, he has veto rights on any trade, and
so I think the Braves have done that, and I
think the message was received, and the reporting that we've
gotten is that Marcel is very open to being traded,
and I think the Braves are very interested in trading him.
And then on top of that, you add that Marcel
has actually gotten hot, like I think he's got four
(14:37):
homers in his last seven starts, he's hit two in
a row in the last two nights in Kansas City.
I would be surprised if he's in the lineup beginning tomorrow,
assuming he's not traded the trade deadlines on Thursday, obviously.
So this is gonna be interesting because there are not
a lot of middle of the older bats, and when
Marcel is hitting the ball over the fence, when you
add him his already really really strong on base percentage.
(15:01):
When you had both those together, Marcel is a middle
of the older bat, and you're if you're a team
that's trying to win a World Series this year, you
can kind of convince yourself with that, and listen, there
are plenty teams in baseball that need more offense, that
need more right handed power. The Rangers, the Mariners, like
I'm the Padres, most of them, most teams. Honestly, the
(15:22):
Yankees just lost Judge for an unspecified amount of time.
Like it's possible they could get something decent for him.
I'm not. They're They're not going to get like anybody's
number one prospect, I don't think, but like a real
prospect that's got real potential that you know that you know,
a name that you would know. So it has definitely
(15:43):
gotten more interested in the last couple days, and I'm
pretty convinced he's gonna get traded. I'm at like eighty
five ninety percent convinced he's gonna get moved. I don't
know where you are, but I think the Braves did
a smart thing by showing him it's best for all
parties if we kind of part ways here. I think
he got the message. I think his improved play is
going to help a lot. So I'm actually pretty encouraged
(16:06):
by this whole development at the moment.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Absolutely, and I wouldn't blame anymore. Like, as a matter
of fact, I would have pulled him after the home
run and just said, Okay, you've done your part, and yes,
I would be looking to move him. I would definitely
be looking to move him. It just makes all the
sense in the world. You're doing right by him, you're
doing right by your future. Maybe, especially if you pay
down the salary that's owed to him, maybe you can
(16:29):
get something decent. We'll talk about, you know, potentially, specifically
what we might look for in returns in just a moment.
So I think it's pretty clear Marcel Ozuna, especially with
the fact that several teams are looking for middle of
the order bats, and he clearly likely is not going
to cost as much as maybe a Eugenio Suarez or
somebody that's controlled beyond this year. There's just a lot
(16:50):
of factors that make it make sense for the Brads
to move on from Marcello Zuna for that same reason.
I think a couple of other names that are worth
talking about are right Sollyglazias, as well as Piers Johnson. Now,
if the Braves wanted to hold on to Pierce Johnson,
I wouldn't blame them at all, but I do think
that he is an asset to dangle out there because
(17:13):
of the fact I know that every year it seems
like that the bullpen market for trades is saturated, but
it's because every team needs bullpen help, and you've got
so many teams that have already made moves for bullpen
help that once again it could have it. And with
Iglesias and Pierce Johnson, Stephen, the one thing that you
have with them that you don't have with others is
that they have a long track record of being effective
(17:34):
and still are right now, which that reliability certainly matters
now I'm gonna set the stage here. Steven had a
wonderful time from what I hear on his cruise with
the family, just to join life not having to worry
about bravest baseball. But the man is a baseball lifer.
He loves baseball. So we're going to open this segment.
(17:57):
We're going to spend the next little bit with Tobart's
tropical takes. Steven Talbert, you were on the clock. Let's
first start with Rice l Iglesias and the idea of
what a trade for him.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
It looked like, yeah, so Ricel is the most complicated
because it's our rental. So you're gonna get limited You're
gonna get a limited return. You just have to know
that going in. Now, excuse me, what I would do
one hundred with him and Marcel is I would excuse me,
(18:32):
I would trade down these contracts or I would pay
down these contracts. I think Marcel. So Marcel made sixteen
million this year, so like one third of that is
like six million bucks, which is what he's owed. Iglesias
is very similar. I think Iglesias might be it's seventeen million,
so very similar. So if you look at those those guys,
(18:54):
each are owed about six million bucks the rest of
the year. Well, there's not a lot of I mean,
there's a number of contenders that literally can't afford to
add another six million dollars to their payroll. And if
you force the team that's acquiring them to take on
that money, that just limits the number of teams that
can do it. If you agree, however, to pay that money,
every single team on the trade market that needs a
(19:15):
reliever or needs a middle of the older bat is
now in play for your guy, and the Braves were
already planning on spending this money. Spend the money, pay
it down one hundred percent, and get the best prospect
you can for both of them. That is my take
on a Glass. I have no idea what he's going
to get traded for. Predicting trades is impossible baseball, because
(19:36):
even if you try to find like prospect lists and
who the best guy is, you have no idea how
the team itself views each of these prospects because every
team is different. Every team views another team's prospects completely different,
so picking individual packages is impossible. But for Iglesias and
for Marcel, my number one take is pay down the contract,
(20:00):
pay down the contract, get as many teams involved in
these two guys as possible. They're they're performing decently well
at a great time for you. Pay down the contracts,
get as many teams as involved, and get the best
return you can. Because they're rentals, their markets are already suppressed.
Do the best you can with that by paying down
the contracts. Do you have an opinion on that?
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yeah, And I'm gonna go one step further. What I
would be telling teams, especially these teams like the Texas Rangers,
who are looking for a bat as well as bullpen help,
tell them you'll combine Rice Selliglacius and mar Solo Zuna.
Tell them you can have Marcelo Zuna, you can have
Ryce Elliglacias, and you can have ten million dollars. Here's
the specific top fifteen prospect that I want plus a
(20:44):
lottery ticket. That's what I would look to do. Maximize
your total value. And I think you potentially could do
that by trading them together for teams that need that
type of difference, because there's a lot of teams that
need both that middle of the order bat as well
as that bullpen help. Getting these guys who have had
the track record about Zuna and Iglesias. I bet that
(21:04):
would be an intriguing proposal to someone. Here's Azuna, here's
Rysull Iglesias, and here's ten million dollars. Let's talk prospects,
and that gives you the opportunity to really increase your
chances of getting that relevant arm, that relevant position player
that you like. That is a strategy that I would
potentially implement the right situation if I were the Braves.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, I like that. You don't see that a lot.
Actually teams usually prefer trading guys individually because they feel
like they can get more. But when it's a rental
situation like this, I think that logic actually holds up
decently well. Like, combine them, instead of getting two lower
level prospects, combine them, try to get maybe one kind
(21:49):
of more upper level prospect. I don't hate that. So
with Pierce Johnson, and this is a this is a
controversial one because everybody has a different opinion on what
to do with Pierce. First of all, let's be clear
about something, and I'm gonna throw this take to our guy,
Brad Rowland, because he's made it. He's made this point
a bunch, and he's one hundred percent right. Pierce Johnson
has team controlled next year. Pierce Johnson has team control
(22:13):
next year. If they trade Pierce Johnson, they will have
traded a guy that has team controlled next year. Now
I think they should pick trade Pierce Johnson. But the
all the reporting for the last six weeks has been
the Braves are not trading anybody that's got team control.
But for some reason, Pierce Johnson's name keeps being included
in like trade articles. That is that he's available. Well,
(22:33):
Pierce Johnson has team control next year. Now, yeah, it's
a team option. It's not guaranteed money, but that that
team option is guaranteed to be picked up, so it's
basically guaranteed money. So you know, that's been bugging Brad
like crazy, and it's been bugging me too. It doesn't
actually make any sense that Pierce Johnson's name keeps being included.
But my take on Pierce Johnson is he's he is
(22:56):
having a fantastic seed. Pierce Johnson has an ERA in
the two five. I knew he was having a good year.
I did not realize Pierce Johnson had an ERA in
the two point five. Like it's like a two point
five six ERA or something like that. He's having an
unbelievable year. When you have a reliever having this good
of year, the odds of his value ever being higher
(23:16):
than this are just always not great. That's just how
relievers are and you need to take advantage of that.
And I know people gonna say they're gonna try to
win next year. I still believe you can build a
bullpen in the offseason, especially if you've got some decent
young guys like they do that they're gonna try out
for the bullpen probably in the last two months of
the season. You still have Dylan Lee. I'm not saying
(23:38):
you try to with Dylan Lee and just tear the
whole thing down. But Pierce Johnson on that deal, with
a year and a half a team control could bring
you back a legitimate like this is not a rental.
You could get a legitimate prospect for Pierce Johnson. And
again it's a reliever. Yeah, he might be good next year,
he also might be hurt or sucked next year. Are
(24:01):
not days, Bill. Look at Joejamenez from last year to
this year, look at Risel from last year to this year.
That's what happens with relievers. You don't know they could
just it's just it's so volatile. If you have one
that's good right now that you can move for real value,
I think you have to do it, and I understand
the argument for not doing it. I trust me. I
see him. I mentioned every time he gets brought up.
(24:21):
I understand the argument. But I'm trading Pierce Johnson. That
incredible year he is having, having another year of team
control next year. I think he's probably your best trade ship. Honestly,
I would do it.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
I would as well, because again to me, it's always
I trust Alex and Thopoulos's ability to go find another
reliever between now and next year who could perform at
the level of Pierce Johnson. You've got Joejamenez coming back
next year. You've got Dylan Lee as well. You've been
able to find pieces in the past. I know I
(24:55):
was an advocate.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
For the Bullpen.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Over the past couple of months, we've seen as their
usage has gone up. As you've mentioned, Stephen, they have
not been that great. So that's a fair point as well.
But this is why I agree with you in trading
Pierce Johnson. It's because Alex and Thoppless's strength of his
has been going to find underperforming relievers and bring them
here to Atlanta and they perform quite well. Trust in
(25:18):
your ability to do that and get value from one
that you've already done that with. That's why I would
trade Pierce Johnson. So I completely agree. Now we're talking
about trading these guys, and I know that Steven had
mentioned it's hard to really put names to a potential return.
But what might we be looking for when it comes
to a potential return. I have some thoughts on that,
(25:39):
plus more from Tulbart's Tropical Takes after a word from
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Speaker 1 (26:45):
So, of course, if you're here with us, the Braves
obviously are playing the Royals as we speak. You know,
the result of the game is not that great, but
it's you know, what we're used to. But we're here
talking trades less than twenty four hours or forty eight
hours away from the trade deadline. We're in the midst
of Tolbert's tropical takes, one of three takes from Stephen Tolbert,
(27:06):
the Man himself back from vacation. His first one was
a pretty logical one, in discussing Pierce Johnson potentially being traded.
We have two more that will wait you as we
wrap up this edition of the Hember Territory Podcast. But
before we get to that, Stephen, I know that you
had just mentioned it's hard to put names to a
potential return for the Braves, but I don't think that
(27:26):
it's hard to identify what this team needs and it's
them getting what they don't have. And for me, that
is two potential things. Number One, I want back a older,
outfilled prospect that has shown a track record of being productive.
Maybe it's in college, maybe it's he's blocked and he's
had a year or two of good major or minor
(27:48):
league production. I want that in our system because we
don't have that right now. And the reason why we
don't have that right now is because we've not been
able to identify that. But we need that right now
because going into next year, you're gonna have Jerkson Profar
coming off his ped suspension. Who is Jerrickson Profar? Michael
Harris are very disappointing your offensively though he's picked it
(28:11):
up as a plate and I don't think that it
should be lost on anyone. Michael Harris has had some
injury concerns in the past himself, and of course Ronald
Acoba Junior, who once again unfortunately has a bit of
an injury scare. You need some outfield depth in the system,
some outfield depth that's relevant. Go get that type of talent.
The other thing I want to go get a controllable
bullpen arm. Alex and Thoppolis can identify bullpen pieces. We
(28:36):
need to get some bullpen pieces that are reliable, that
don't cost much. Those are two potential things I would
focus on.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Yes, I think those are both very good points, especially
the outfield because we have seen you know, Alex has
talked about it, like you very rare. It's like almost
like a rotation, you very rarely just need three outfielders
in a season, And it seems like they have had
to go out and get outfielders mid season in mass
(29:07):
more than once, where they've had to go get two
or three outfielders because they have nothing in their system
that even resembles like a major league caliber outfielder one
because they don't. I mean, they've just been drafting so
pitching heavy the last seven or eight years. And then
add in the international markets where they really haven't been
they just have nothing and so that's a great one.
I agree with that. Relievers. Of course, I can hear
(29:30):
people already saying we need shortstop prospects. Oh, yes, of
course we'll take any shortstop prospects. I can hear people
say we need starters because Bryce Elder is still like
the sixth best charter on this in this franchise, and
you know, I'm not sure how tenable that is going forward,
although the Braves do have some really exciting young pitchers
coming into Triple A, either now or in the next
(29:52):
you know, a few weeks months, whatever. So yeah, I
agree with that. And what I would add to that
is there is a there is a line of thinking
about BPA which is just best player available that can
also stand for best prospect available, where like you just
take the best offer, like even if it's not necessarily
a position that you need, you just take the best.
(30:14):
You just get as much value as you can and
figure it out. And I I do agree with that
with some extent. But I the outfield need is so
dire in the in the minor leagues for the Braves
that I think I would side with you on this, Sean.
I think the Braves do need to target a young,
like controllable, exciting outfielder, because every single year, without fail,
(30:38):
they need outfielders and they have nothing in their system
to go get. I've got a couple more takes, but
I agree with you. I think they do need to
go get an outfielder somewhere in these trades. And if
they trade Pierce Johnson, I agree they need to include
get some sort of relief prospect back where they can
you know, they can reasonably assume that guy is gonna
(30:59):
be out play a role in the twenty twenty six bullpit.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Absolutely and so and those I think are also reasonable
takes because those type of outfielders. I don't want a
lottery ticket. I don't want someone who's really nineteen. I mean,
if you go get a stud prospect who's nineteen, who's
in the top five of somebody's system by all means,
but who's got a little bit of production, go get
a guy who you know may not necessarily be a star,
but can call up and you know, eventually be your
(31:25):
long term answer and left field. That's the type of thing.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
And see, I would say teams are usually pretty okay
with trading those guys. Yeah, it's harder to get like
shortstop prospects because everybody wants them, but like outfielders, especially
if they're blocked in any way. I feel like that's
a reasonable I feel like there's a reasonable idea.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Now there's a certain Texas Rangers prospect who's number ten
in their system right now. I won't go into this
because Steven hates when I talk about former balls, but
my point is is that I think that that's something
I would target that in a potential relief form that
could step up as soon as next year. Okay, so
back to to tropical takes. The first take, of course,
(32:02):
was a very very logical one, Pierce Johnson on the
move in a market that should net you a very
good return with the need for right handed relief Pidgy Talbert.
Tropical takes Number two when it comes to the trade deadline,
would be.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
If you are going to explore a trade for Sean
Murphy in the off season, there is absolutely no reason
not to do it now. And I will give you
my logic. So I was sitting on a beach in
Jamaica and I was doing what everybody does. I was
reading positioned by position trade market pieces, and one thing
(32:40):
I had discovered is that there are no decent catchers
to trade in this market, none like the best, the
best guys like Joey Bart And there are multiple teams
that need good catchers. And here's my logic. If you're
gonna explore the trade anyways in the offseason, you've already
decided which way you're gonna go. You're just delaying it.
(33:03):
And the reason you're delaying it is because it is
hard to trade starting catchers in the off season. All Right,
I'm sorry mid season, but that's a problem for the
team that's buying, not a team that's selling. If somebody
wants to bring Sean Murphy in mid season and they
feel like they can get him, you know, adjusted to
a new pitching staff on the fly, that's on them.
That's their problem. That's not your problem. But if you're
(33:26):
going to explore this in the off season, why not
explore it now where there's no other catchers on the market.
Sean Murphy's having a terrific season. You could get a
tremendous return. Sean Murphy would then be able to contribute
to another postseason for the team that's acquiring him, which
(33:46):
adds to his value. Now, if you're not gonna trade
him at the if you're not gonna trade him in
the off season. If you are, if you have decided
that you're gonna keep both of them into the future,
which is a reasonable take, then this is this is
you can ignore this whole take, but if you're gonna
explore it. And I was thinking about this because I
was in my head. I was thinking, well, Sean Murphy trade,
that's gotta be in the off season. But then I
(34:06):
stopped to think, why does it have to be in
the off season Because a team has a hard time
getting a new catcher up to speed. But if they're
willing to do it, they're the one that has to
do that. You don't. You just have to get the
big return. So if you're gonna explore it in the
off season, do it now where there is no other
good catchers on the market. There's multiple teams that need
(34:29):
a catcher, multiple teams that have really good farm systems
that need a catcher, Like it's on them to get
to get Sean Murphy up to speed on their on
their pitchers. It's not your that's not your deal. So
if you're gonna explore trading Sean Murphy in the off season,
there's absolutely no reason not to do it now. It's
take number two.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
So I agree and disagree. I think that you make
sense and the fact that, listen, you're not suggesting just
trade Sean Murphy. To trade Sean Murphy, and.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
I want to make that point clear, only if you're
can considering only if you're doing it in the off
season anyway. Yeah, I'm not saying if they've decided they
don't want to trade Sean Murphy, then you can ignore
this whole take. But if they have decided we're going
to trade Sean Murphy, we're just gonna do it in
the off season. That I don't agree with that. I
think you could do it now well.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
And the thing is, the other reason why is because
Sean Murphy himself, Sean Murphy's bat by itself, would be
one of the probably top five bats out there, you know,
and then you're going to being, you know, a potential
top five defensive catcher who's under control. He'd be a
great commodity. I again think that you only Tradinghi if
it's an offer that you cannot refuse. And the reason
(35:36):
why I would trade to the off season is because
to me, that may double or triple your pull of
teams that potentially would go after Sean Murphy, and then
that and of itself, could make his market go up
to where you can really get an understanding of what
you need in return, because I'm only trading Sean Murphy
if I truly am answering a need, which is another
(35:58):
significant arm, maybe a shor stop for the future, something
along those lines. And if you hold on to Sean
Murphy for the rest of the year, you both double
up on knowing that Drake Baldwin is the real deal,
but also in getting better idea of what you need.
So I'm fine if they want to trade Shaw Murphy
O the next you know, one plus stays if they
(36:18):
get an offer they simply can't refuse. But in terms
of if you're trying to drum up the best value
for him, I think you have a better chance of
doing that in the off season than currently.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
And one thing I'll say, and I want to say
into a microphone, there is absolutely an argument for keeping
both guys, like one hundred percent, because I can hear
people people say it all the time, like why trade them?
You you always need more than one catcher. One hundred
percent true. The logic for trading him is can you
afford to have two catchers this good when you have
so many other holes on the team, when you could
(36:52):
use his value to plug another hole, Which is also
a fair point, Like reasonable people can disagree on this
one because you can make an argument both ways. So
there is a reason, there is an absolute argument to
keep him where it's it's one hundred and fifty degrees
in the summer in Atlanta. You got to have two catchers.
The Braves have always had two catchers, keep them both
and and forget about it. The argument against is, are
(37:16):
you going to take Drake Balwin's bat out of the
lineup half? You know, fifty percent of the time, are
you are? Are you going to DH the other one
and give up the DH? You know, basically every single
game your DH is the other catcher. You know, that's
a complicated thing in itself, So there's arguments both ways.
My point is, if you're if you have decided you're
(37:36):
going to do it in the off season, I think
you should explore doing that. But again that's a take.
People can agree or disagree, because.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
The thing that you can't do is that you know,
I know that you mentioned it was complicated. I don't
think it's actually that complicated. The Braves cannot, in my opinion,
the Braves cannot go into next season convincing themselves and
people that it's going to be okay keeping shot Or's
level of offense and Drake Baldwin's level of offense at
the catcher spot, where one would be a leite, which
(38:05):
is fine, but at the DH spot it would be mediocre,
and then they don't do anything to address the fact
that they have near worst in the league production at shortstop,
second Mason, center field. You can't keep both catchers as
your catcher and your DH to their expected level of
offense and then have near league worst offense up the
middle at three positions. So if Seawn Murphy helps out
(38:27):
in one of those areas, and the obvious one is
shortstop where it makes sense in that situation, go ahead
and make the move. So my point that I'm getting
at is is, I think that's easier to figure out
in the off season. But if you can make that
move now and it makes sense, don't be hesitant to
do it now. So not necessarily agree to disagree. Agree
to a different level. I guess you could say, now
(38:50):
here's Johnson on the move, makes logical sense, Sean Murphy
being moved.
Speaker 4 (38:55):
Now.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
You can look at it both ways, but I think
that we've saved.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
The best for last.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Tibert's Tropical Takes number three. Take it away, Stephen Talbert.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
So full disclosure. This is one I thought about in
the shower. And this is one of those you think
about where you think, I really should never tell anybody
about this, Like this is just you're gonna get made
fun of, You're gonna get ripped.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
But this is like the song that you sing in
the shower that only you and maybe one or two
other people in the world know, but you never would
tell anybody.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
It's that type, exactly that type. But I think I
can make I think there are people that will agree.
I think I can make the case where it's at
least logical. People will most people will hate it, but
I think it's logical.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
By the way, that song for me is Adele's Hello.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
That's tam I, that's it, that's it's it's a wonderful.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
It's a wonderful song.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Nobody needs to know that it's wonderful. I'm just gonna
say it, and then I'll give my logic. Man, I'm
gonna get ripped for this. I I would explore in
the next well I would have started a week ago
or two weeks ago. I would explore trading Spencer Strider.
I can't believe I just said that to a microphone.
(40:10):
All right, here we go. Here's my logic. Spencer Strider
is a slim, right handed, hard throwing pitcher, and those
guys are historically dubious when it comes to durability. And
with Spencer, we have already seen in his case, specifically
(40:31):
durability questions, two major elbow surgeries already in his career.
Starting next year, Spencer makes twenty million dollars a year.
I think it's twenty million, twenty two million, and twenty
two million the year after that, and then I think
there's a five million dollar buyout on his twenty nine option.
So the Braves O Spencer Strider seventy million dollars over
(40:53):
the next three years after this season. There are no
starting pitchers on this on the market. There's never any
starting pitchers on the market, and every team in baseball
needs starting pitching. And you are at a time where
you are both selling and Spencer Strider is healthy and
pitching pretty well. How much do you want to risk
(41:15):
that at some point in this contract, you are going
to be paying Spencer Strider twenty plus million dollars a
year to rehab another serious injury versus getting out now
with plus value. Somebody would take that contract and give
you prospects on top of it, because there's always a
surplus charge at the trade deadline. There's no starting pitching
(41:36):
out there. You could probably get a substantial amount for
Spencer Strider. Get off that contract and listen. I hear,
I trust me. I know what people are gonna say.
Why would you trade Spencer Strider when you want to
win next year? This is about risk management of an
asset that is highly risky because he is. This is
not Spencer Swallenbach, who still makes league minimum. This is
(41:58):
a guy you are paying twenty plus million dollars a
year two for the next three years after this, who's
already had substantial elbow troubles in his career, who's already
seen a dip in the velo. The velo has not
come all the way back. He's still been a really
good pitcher, but it has not come all the way back.
If that VLO dips anymore, you can have a serious problem.
(42:20):
So it's this take is more about risk management. He's
healthy right now, and teams all over baseball needs starting pitching.
You could get off that contract. I understrust me people.
I understand why this is crazy. The Braves are one
thousand percent not going to do it. But I was thinking, man,
(42:43):
that's a risky contract, and the Braves can't really afford,
literally afford to have a twenty million dollar pitcher just
on the sidelines for months if he if he has
another serious injury. He's healthy right now, he's pitching pretty well.
Nobody is selling starting I don't know I can make
the case the Braves aren't gonna do it. Hear that.
(43:06):
If you hear nothing else, hear that the Braves are
not going to do this. This is Stevens. Stephen was
in one hundred and fifty degree beach. He got lightheaded
and had some half assed idea and decided to talk
about on the podcast because the team sucks and there's
nothing else to talk about. But that's my logic. What
do you think I did not prep Sean for this.
(43:27):
This is Sean's hearing this for the first time I
wanted to be authentic. I want to hear your gut reaction.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
I The points that you bring up as to why
there would be any logic to it, I think are valid.
The amount that you're going to invest in Spencer Strider
moving forward goes up significantly. The risk in getting what
you got from him two years ago of not getting
(43:52):
that has gone up significantly because of the returns that
were seeing from him post serious injury. I get all
that absolutely so I am not I don't feel that
it is I think that it's obviously far fetched, but
I don't think that your approach to why it could
make sense, I think there's logic to it.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
With that being said, the biggest butt in the world
is cod I mean I could just the biggest butt
of all time is coming out.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
With that being said, I definitely not consider trading Spencer
Strider right now. And it's not just because of the
name Spencer Strider. It's not just because of what he
could be once he gets an off season of health
underneath his belt. One of the biggest reasons why I
don't trade Spencer Strider right now. He's your healthiest pitcher
(44:42):
with the track record that he's had.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
By the fact that he is your only healthy pitcher.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Exactly because you're going into twenty twenty six with the
fact that your top six options, uh top six, top seven,
your top six six or seven options Spencer Strider, Chris Sale, Spencer, Schwellenbach, Ronaldo, Lopez,
Grant Holmes, AJ Smith, saw Shavor, and Bryce Elder. Okay,
(45:09):
the only two healthy options out of that right now
are Spencer Strider and Bryce Elder. And Spencer Strider just
came back two months ago from an internal brace surgery
that basically is just a level down from Tommy John.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
So let me let me add this. I think the
point you just made is actually making my point because
if you if you already have that much injury risk
in your rotation, can you afford literally, can you afford
to have twenty million dollars tied to Spencer Strider when
you already have this much injury risk in your rotation? Sales, Schwallenbach, Lopez,
(45:44):
Can you afford to have another guy Spencer Strider making
twenty million dollars who, quite frankly, you don't know is
gonna be healthy for any period of that contract. You
have to that that's the point that I, well, no,
you don't have to. That's that's the point you like,
you could explore not doing it.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
But in my opinion, if you want to contend, and
there's another element to this, I'm gonna get to in
just a moment. Next year, say you trade Spencer Strider. Okay,
you're going into next year thirty seven year old Chris Sale,
who if healthy and he should be just fine. He
cracked a couple of ribs. He's gonna be his arms
gonna be fine, Chris Sale. You think he's a top
twenty pitcher of the game. Next year, Spencer Swellenbach. As
(46:26):
long as there's no serious effect from his elbow, you
have to think to yourself, Okay, he's gonna be all right.
What is there beyond that for the Braves to have it?
Speaker 2 (46:35):
Well, But then you've got to also include the extra
twenty million dollars a year you know, have to spend,
plus all of the return you got for Spencer Strider.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
Okay, that's that that that is a fair point.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
That is a very fair point, because wit Spencer Strider's
injury history, you might be going in the next year
without him either way.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Fair enough, But you can take the twenty million dollars
that you get back from him per year, and you
could take the turn from him. It's still going to
be very, very hard to turn that into what Spencer
Strider could be for you could be yeah. Yet, But
here's the other reason why I don't trade Spencer Strider.
And this may be the fact that I put more
value on this than you, Steven. I want Spencer Stryder
(47:15):
in my damn clubhouse. I want Spencer Strider. Im a
damn dugout.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
That might be the best argument.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Yeah, I want Spencer Strider. When Spencer Strider is yelling
at the top of his lungs at our coaching staff
to pay some damn attention to what's going on or
questioning what they're doing when it's clear that what they're
doing is not working. We need that type of leadership
in the clubhouse. I want that type of mentality. When
we talk about Spencer Strider and the fact that right
(47:45):
now he may not be working with as much as
he did a pre injury, I still am competent. Spencer
Strider is going to be a top of the Baseball
world pitcher because the mentality that he has has going
to allow for him to reinvent himself to be able
to be successful for a winner. And I want the
Spencer Strider who's going to be motivated in the playoffs
(48:05):
to come back and lead our team to playoff victories. Steven,
I don't mean to be preaching, because I know that
you feel the same way, but I need a Spencer
Strider in the Braves Dugout now and years moving forward
for us to have the chance that I think we're
capable of having to be able to win. Because if
you trade Spencer Strider for multiple reasons, that's the clearest sign,
(48:27):
the biggest sign that you're probably looking to at least retool,
if not revealed. I'm not to that level yet. I
get everything that you said, and everything that you said
was clearly logical. But even more than the performance of
Spencer Strider is the person of Spencer Strider, and I
need that person in the Braves Dugout to make this
transition back to a contender as successful as possible.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Yeah, that's the best. I mean on top of like,
there is a x percent chance he could actually get
back to like best picture in baseball level, Spencer Strider's
not like there's a very real argument that after just
a normal offseason, he comes back to throw a ninety
nine one hundred, one hundred and one next year and
you know you're fine. So that is probably the best argument.
(49:12):
But after that, like the fire the dude plays with
and conducts himself with, it's just something I think the
Braves really do desperately need. And so yes, I agree
with you, that is I think the best case for
not doing it. But I do not like having injury
prone pitchers signed to twenty plus million dollar contracts. And
(49:34):
if you get to a trade deadline where you're selling
and he's healthy and there's no other pictures on the market, man,
I would at least be tempted to see what's out there.
The Braves are not doing this, Please hear that this
is this is an exercise in hypotheticals because the team
sucks and it's trade deadline season and this is the
stuff that people like us talk about. But it did
(49:57):
come across to me as like, man, you can make
a strong argument it's not gonna happen. But I do
think you can make an argument, and.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
I want to make it clear on mind as well.
My passion with the idea of the fact that the Braves,
if they ever considered Spencer Strider, they need to let
competence reign and not trade him. Stephen Tolbert has that competence.
He has that he's one of the smartest people when
it comes to covering the Braves that I met in
My turn.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
Well, anybody who just listened to this episode is going
to disagree with.
Speaker 1 (50:26):
You, Well, I don't. I'm not sending here preaching about
Spencer Strider because Steven needs convincing of that. He knows
what Spencer Strider is capable of, but he also knows
the value of the person is Spencer Strider. The reason
why I'm preaching about the person that Spencer Strider is
is because we need as much of that type of mentality.
We need that is as much type of that accountability
(50:47):
and that passion to win as possible as we can
get in that damn clubhouse over the next six months
to get back to being a contender. That's the biggest
reason why I put faith in the fact that Spencer
Strider is gonna be a major part and us once
again being a contender, and I hope to God he
has the opportunity to show his full worth and playoff
(51:07):
series for years to come. Stephen, do you have anything else?
Since we wrap up this edition of the Hammer Territory podcast.
I didn't mean to get us in the pulpit tonight, Stephen,
but here we are.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
Listen the first episode back in a while. I wanted
to bring some takes. I was literally sitting in the
middle of the Atlantic Ocean just thinking of, like, what
are some of the hottest tickes I could come up with?
So yeah, it's always I mean, listen, trades are always
hilarious and fun to talk about. We've got a trade
deadline coming six pm on Thursday. I'm pretty sure Sean
and I are going to do another show tomorrow. Obviously
(51:40):
there will be an emergency show for anything that happens.
Please do not send me DMS and text about trading
Spinster strata. Listen, guys, it's just an exercise and hypothetical takes.
Nobody freak out on me. But any trades that do
actually happen. I think Roscio Glas is getting traded. I
think Marcelo Zoon is getting traded. Pierce Johnson, I think
(52:00):
he should get traded. Whether he does, it's probably more
fifty to fifty, but whatever happens, we are going to
cover it the next forty eight hours. I think Brian
Scott are going to do a show Thursday night to
recap it all after the deadline has passed. But you
will be hearing for us multiple times in the next
forty eight hours.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
So while all this conversation was fun and enjoyable, we
also want to make sure that we are fully covering
the team to the minute of what occurs. There has
been further reports on Ronald was Kuna Junior is in
a walking boot and he will be going on the IL.
Now this things, This makes things a bit more concerning.
(52:42):
I'm not going to sit here and act like that.
I'm someone that knows how the medical prognosis and all
this stuff goes when it comes to this type of injury.
But what I will say, if you follow the NBA,
you know how quickly something can turn when it comes
to the Achilles from a stre to something more serious.
I'm not saying anything is indicated that that has been
(53:04):
the case, but the fact that Ronald Acuna Junior is
leaving the stadium in a walking boot and is going
on the IEL, that is a bit more concerning than
where we were, so do want to give that report?
Speaker 2 (53:16):
Actually I changed my mind. Trade them all, trade everybody.
I don't care.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
As we're recording this podcast again, the latest when it
comes to Ronald Acunya Junior is of a few minutes ago.
Is that again he is per Mark Bowman, he is
in a walking boot and he is going on the il.
This was from about twenty five and fifteen minutes ago.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
Oh my god, is don't Mark Bowman said he was
holding back tears talking to the media.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
So we will have more obviously on this as time
goes on. Obviously, we're also waiting to hear more on
the official prognosis on grant homes. So it could potentially
be a a very, very significantly braves not only this year,
but it looks like that things could be even worse
(54:07):
than we expected from this point on. Hope to god
that's not the case. But again, it's been a lot
of fun speculating about trades, but it just got more
real now.
Speaker 2 (54:16):
That I'm going back to the I'm going back to
the Atlantic Ocean.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
This is again that we're talking about. We're talking about
serious injuries. Of course, we'll be with you non stop
with coverage when it comes to the Braves, myself, Stephen
as well as Brad and Scotch. Make sure to check
out all the great content when it comes to Hammer
Territory across all forms of social media, Foul Territory across
(54:40):
all forms of social media as well, mind self stats,
sac Sean Coleman on x slash Twitter, Stephen Tolbert as well.
We may or may not do another quick Hammer Territory
podcast as we get more news when it comes to Ronald,
or any more news tonight when it comes to trade.
Make sure to stick with us. Listen, go Braves. Until
next time we will talk to you and soon here
(55:02):
on the Hammer Territory Podcast
Welcome one and all to the Hammer Territory Podcast. My
name is Sean Coleman. Hope wherever you are and wherever
you are listening to, hope that you oh there, we
are just standing right here across the room. There we go.
Welcome to the Hammer Territory Podcast. Gotta make sure that
you see loud and clear, that proud to be their braves,
background whatever. But hey, we've got some excitement in the
(00:45):
room because Stephen Talbert is back. That is correct, Gulliver
himself back from his travels. Very excited to have him back. Stephen.
I hope that you are well rested, sir, A brand
new man with an awesome how's everything going, sir? Welcome back?
Not the damn things changed?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yeah, I was. What's up, buddy. It's great to be
back on with you. I miss talking to you every week.
I actually did miss the show. Even though the team sucks,
I miss talking about him. It's one of my favorite
things to do, even when they're bad. So it's good
to be back. It is funny watching the games and
just being like, suck right back into the you know,
(01:25):
just the absolute shit show that is the twenty twenty
five season. But it is what it is. And you know,
it's trade deadline week, and so we're gonna focus on
the main thing, which is the trade deadline. Right now,
the Braves have some very interesting pieces who are playing
better at a really opportune time and maybe help the
(01:47):
Braves out by Thursday's deadline, six pm deadline on Thursdays,
the trade deadline. So yeah, a couple of things to
get to. Obviously, we had an injury in tonight's game
that we're gonna talk about. But as always, it's great
to better with you, buddy and your muted look at this,
this is just class.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Hey, hey, I was saying, I was saying, glad to
have you back. It's always always good to be with you.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Man.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I hope you and your family had a wonderful time.
But let's get right into it. Yes, you know that
the Braves kind of surprisingly, you know, it's kind of
you know, disappointing that they haven't made a trade so far,
because we've had two straight days of trades, and that,
of course is relevant today. Eric Fetti, who the Braves
traded four on Sunday. He started tonight in Kansas City
four point two innings, give up four innings, pitch. He
(02:33):
looked like a pitcher who was traded to come, who
is acquired to come and eat innings for a team
that's not looking to contend. And that's exactly what he
looked like. But of course, Steven, the other news is
is that we made another deal for the same reason,
acquiring veteran starter Carlos Grasco College. Grasco has had what
a fifteen what twelve to fifteen year career in the majors.
(02:54):
I know that he's had some injury history, but again,
his acquisition is nothing more than just bringing in an
arm that could eat in needs for the Braves. He
had shown the ability to do that at Triple A
after he had been designated for assignment earlier this year.
Your thoughts on the Fetti Carrasco trades and the fact
that we got some veteran leadership that means absolutely nothing
(03:15):
other than just, hey, go through one hundred pitches.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, listen, we were calling for this back when sale
got hurt like six weeks ago. I'm kind of I
don't know really why they took so long to do it.
I don't know why they just decided to go bullpen
game after bullpen game this is what we were expecting
them to do a while ago, and it took like
six weeks to get it done. But yeah, these kind
of guys, these guys who are terrible. Listen to both
(03:39):
these guys. Fetti was dfaed by the Cardinals and the
Braves picked him up. Carrasco was in the Yankees' Triple
A team or something like that. I can't remember exactly
what it was. But both these guys are bad, and
they're supposed to be bad. I mean, that's why they're
available for nothing. But it's better than throwing your prospects
who aren't ready to be in the majors, throwing into
(04:00):
the wolves. And that's what we didn't really understand about
what was happening with the Diddy or Flintest stuff. I
just go get guys like this who can just eat innings.
It doesn't matter how bad they are the Brave. Listen.
If you haven't caught on by now, I hope that
you have caught onto the fact that the Brave season
is effectively over, Like it's not actually over. They got
to play games, but this season's going nowhere and it has
been for a while. So this is what you do.
(04:22):
You go find a couple of This is this is
like when you you know, when you pop three tires
on the interstate and you get three donuts, and you
got to get the last fifty miles to the service station.
And that's what the Braves did. They went and found
a couple of donuts to stick on the car so
they can drag it to the service station, which is
the off season, and just get it to the house
(04:44):
without anything else burning down. And that's what these guys are.
That's what I expect them to be. I expect them
to be terrible. These games will not be fun to watch,
but it's better than burning through your prospects. So this
is what they should have done.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Absolutely. And the thing is is that you know, we've
talked about it, you know, second half storylines. Watch some
of our prospects, see what they can do at the
triple A level, dole level, what have you. That's going
to be interesting to see if it makes sense. If
one of them were just absolutely you know, doing great
in the minors and you want to give them a
spot start, maybe a Hurston waldrit for instance, go ahead,
(05:19):
see what he's got. Get an idea of where Hurston
Waldrick could be next year. Something like that makes sense.
But you know, Burning Jr. Richie passed his innings limit
for this year to pitch in the majors. That doesn't
make sense, and that's why you go and make this
move for the starters that they did. But of course
we talk about the season being effectively over, and Scott
(05:40):
and I talked about it on multiple occasions last week. Steven,
that means that the whole mentality for the team it's
going to change. And we saw an aspect of that tonight.
Ronald Acune Junior, it appeared last night Monday night that
he was favoring his right side a bit, and then
tonight on a couple of different plays going into foul
territory and then running after a ball in the right center,
he was not him so running down those balls, and
(06:02):
so the Braves removed him from the game. We later
come to find out that it was a right achilles tightness.
Now I mentioned that there's no indication or anything that
it's some type of serious concern. It seems to be
more precautionary. But when it comes to an achilles, Steven,
you mentioned that's not anything you want to hear when
it comes to an achilles. You have every reason to
(06:23):
not only be precautionary in normal situations, but especially when
you have no reason to push your true franchise player.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, I mean, it would have been great if the
team could have hit us with like a calf tightness.
I know that's basically the same thing. But anytime you
see the word achilles, your hard stops, of course, because obviously,
if you tear that thing, it's a it's a year
plus injury. So and I'll buy all reports, all signs.
It looks relatively minor, pretty precautionary, but at this point, like,
(06:59):
it wasn't done me. If they still put him on
the IL. It wasn't done me if they I don't
think he was gonna play tomorrow anyways, because he's been
dealing with back tightness at times. He's looked uncomfortable in
the field, like something's bothering him. Whatever it is, Sit
the dude for as long as he needs. I don't care.
Call him in six months for all I care. Like
(07:19):
we don't need to see Ronald Kuna Junior play any
more games in twenty twenty five. If he's not physically
one hundred percent, there's there's nothing you can gain and
a ton you can lose. So my take is, I'm
not a doctor, I'm not obviously, I'm not examining him.
But if there's anything anything remotely close to an injury,
(07:43):
you sit him, and you sit him for as long
as it takes to get him one hundred percent healthy
and then set him one more day and then play it.
And you know, there's just absolutely no point in risking
anything with Ronald, especially if it's got anything to do
with an achilles. Just rusting rest and rest and wresting.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Absolutely and it sucks to see, you know, overall, Ronald
Cooney Junior, you just know, wants to play ball. Like
That's the thing that stands out to me about these
players that you know, we consider to be our core,
we consider to be the reasons why it's not far
fetched to see the Braves wanting to contend again. In
twenty twenty six, Austin Riley just came back from from
(08:24):
an injury. Chris Sale, Spencer swelling Boy, Ronald Cooney junior,
Spencer Strider was just out for a year. These guys,
part of the reason that makes them so great is
they just love to play ball and they just consistently can't. Like,
I'm not blaming this year on injuries. I want to
make that clear. Injuries are a factor into this season.
They've been an unfortunate factor in two past seasons. We'll
(08:45):
talk about them in a bit more later on in
the episode, but to me, they're not the factor into
why we've sucked this year. It just sucks that these
players that we know love to play the game simply
cannot do it consistently without having to deal with these
indies or or they're having to sit to the side
even when they're healthy, potentially because we don't want to
(09:05):
risk further injury when what we're doing right now doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah, it feels like we made fun of the Mets
for all those years because they couldn't keep anybody on
their roster healthy. It feels like that's come back to
bite us a little bit, like almost like you know,
the World Series we won in twenty one, it's like,
you know, all the good grace that came with that,
It's like, here's the other shoe, you know, the other
side of that coin is just like crazy injury, bad
(09:32):
luck the last two years. And no, this team was
bad before it lost its entire rotation, but losing the
entire rotation is obviously going to take them to a
whole nother level of bad. And obviously if you have
injuries to Acuna or any of your other star position players,
it's just a whole other level of misery. So the
Braves are do some good injury luck, at least starting
(09:53):
in twenty twenty six. Obviously twenty twenty five is coming
gone at this point, but my god, can we get
a season where we just not even have like perfect
injury luck, just like normal injury luck. I mean, it's
just been it's been absurd the last two years.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
And even before that, like you know, and it happens
to our best players, like it's.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Not only and they're like they're like season long injuries.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, it's significant injuries. So you know, again, not blaming
this year on injuries at all. It's it's just a
simple truth. It's just unfortunate that there's a layers to
the disappointment that we see in twenty twenty five, and
the one difference between injuries and all the other factors
that potentially could be corrected if you keep seeing injuries
to your pitching staff, especially or injuries to the level
(10:38):
of like an Achilles for Ronodkune Junior. Again, don't want
to scare any when it doesn't appear that there's any
serious injury. The point that I'm getting at is these
injuries that keep occurring when we get into the second
half of the season, if they're serious, they now start
to affect twenty six and that's when it really gets unfortunate.
But hey, we've got plenty of time to talk about
the last two months of the season in twenty six.
(10:59):
Let's talk about the now, the excited to ask back
to being for less than forty eight hours away from
the trade deadline. More of that in just a moment
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Speaker 1 (12:10):
All right, Steven, So let's get right into what everybody
really wants to talk about this week with where we
are in the baseball calendar, and that of course is trades.
And you know, we've seen some you know, pretty significant
trades that have occurred, some lower level trades. It seemed
like that's going to kind of be the level that
trades are going to be this year. You're not really
going to see a lot of superstar names or even
all star level names trades involved in trades more just
(12:31):
kind of moves on the margin roll players that can
boost bull pins or you know, bottom of the orders,
what have you. But this clearly is though a seller's market.
What I mean with that is is that if you
are a clear seller, you could have an opportunity to
get a pretty relevant return for now and beyond if
that is your goal. And that's where the Braves find themselves.
(12:52):
So let's kind of go through the names here and
we'll start with marcel Oz Ozuna, of course has been
sitting more often as late as the brain is starting
to transition into that Drake Baldwin Sean Murphy Catcher DH
roll kind of just you know, giving Marcello Zu an
indication of how the rest of the season would go,
because that's what they're going to be focused on with
the future. But the last two games, Azuna has reminded
(13:14):
people that he can still make a difference with the
bat and that's great to see. And with the fact
that you just don't see the likelihood of many notable
names position player wise moving at the trade deadline, that
that Tho was in his recent performance may boost the
return that the Braves could look to get.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Yeah, so this is interesting. So I think the Braves
met a very tactical I think they made a very
tactical decision when they decided about three weeks before the
deadline to start sitting Marcel, and I think what they
were trying to relate to him, either directly or indirectly,
(13:53):
was this is what's going to happen the rest of
the season, and so if you want to continue to
build your value for your free agency in the winter,
what's going to be best for you is if you
let us trade you to a team where you'll play
every day because they're trying to win a you know,
whoever we trade you to is trying to win a
playoff game or you know, win a pennant or whatever
(14:14):
it is. And obviously that matters. Because Marcell has ten
five rights, he has veto rights on any trade, and
so I think the Braves have done that, and I
think the message was received, and the reporting that we've
gotten is that Marcel is very open to being traded,
and I think the Braves are very interested in trading him.
And then on top of that, you add that Marcel
has actually gotten hot, like I think he's got four
(14:37):
homers in his last seven starts, he's hit two in
a row in the last two nights in Kansas City.
I would be surprised if he's in the lineup beginning tomorrow,
assuming he's not traded the trade deadlines on Thursday, obviously.
So this is gonna be interesting because there are not
a lot of middle of the older bats, and when
Marcel is hitting the ball over the fence, when you
add him his already really really strong on base percentage.
(15:01):
When you had both those together, Marcel is a middle
of the older bat, and you're if you're a team
that's trying to win a World Series this year, you
can kind of convince yourself with that, and listen, there
are plenty teams in baseball that need more offense, that
need more right handed power. The Rangers, the Mariners, like
I'm the Padres, most of them, most teams. Honestly, the
(15:22):
Yankees just lost Judge for an unspecified amount of time.
Like it's possible they could get something decent for him.
I'm not. They're They're not going to get like anybody's
number one prospect, I don't think, but like a real
prospect that's got real potential that you know that you know,
a name that you would know. So it has definitely
(15:43):
gotten more interested in the last couple days, and I'm
pretty convinced he's gonna get traded. I'm at like eighty
five ninety percent convinced he's gonna get moved. I don't
know where you are, but I think the Braves did
a smart thing by showing him it's best for all
parties if we kind of part ways here. I think
he got the message. I think his improved play is
going to help a lot. So I'm actually pretty encouraged
(16:06):
by this whole development at the moment.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Absolutely, and I wouldn't blame anymore. Like, as a matter
of fact, I would have pulled him after the home
run and just said, Okay, you've done your part, and yes,
I would be looking to move him. I would definitely
be looking to move him. It just makes all the
sense in the world. You're doing right by him, you're
doing right by your future. Maybe, especially if you pay
down the salary that's owed to him, maybe you can
(16:29):
get something decent. We'll talk about, you know, potentially, specifically
what we might look for in returns in just a moment.
So I think it's pretty clear Marcel Ozuna, especially with
the fact that several teams are looking for middle of
the order bats, and he clearly likely is not going
to cost as much as maybe a Eugenio Suarez or
somebody that's controlled beyond this year. There's just a lot
(16:50):
of factors that make it make sense for the Brads
to move on from Marcello Zuna for that same reason.
I think a couple of other names that are worth
talking about are right Sollyglazias, as well as Piers Johnson. Now,
if the Braves wanted to hold on to Pierce Johnson,
I wouldn't blame them at all, but I do think
that he is an asset to dangle out there because
(17:13):
of the fact I know that every year it seems
like that the bullpen market for trades is saturated, but
it's because every team needs bullpen help, and you've got
so many teams that have already made moves for bullpen
help that once again it could have it. And with
Iglesias and Pierce Johnson, Stephen, the one thing that you
have with them that you don't have with others is
that they have a long track record of being effective
(17:34):
and still are right now, which that reliability certainly matters
now I'm gonna set the stage here. Steven had a
wonderful time from what I hear on his cruise with
the family, just to join life not having to worry
about bravest baseball. But the man is a baseball lifer.
He loves baseball. So we're going to open this segment.
(17:57):
We're going to spend the next little bit with Tobart's
tropical takes. Steven Talbert, you were on the clock. Let's
first start with Rice l Iglesias and the idea of
what a trade for him.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
It looked like, yeah, so Ricel is the most complicated
because it's our rental. So you're gonna get limited You're
gonna get a limited return. You just have to know
that going in. Now, excuse me, what I would do
one hundred with him and Marcel is I would excuse me,
(18:32):
I would trade down these contracts or I would pay
down these contracts. I think Marcel. So Marcel made sixteen
million this year, so like one third of that is
like six million bucks, which is what he's owed. Iglesias
is very similar. I think Iglesias might be it's seventeen million,
so very similar. So if you look at those those guys,
(18:54):
each are owed about six million bucks the rest of
the year. Well, there's not a lot of I mean,
there's a number of contenders that literally can't afford to
add another six million dollars to their payroll. And if
you force the team that's acquiring them to take on
that money, that just limits the number of teams that
can do it. If you agree, however, to pay that money,
every single team on the trade market that needs a
(19:15):
reliever or needs a middle of the older bat is
now in play for your guy, and the Braves were
already planning on spending this money. Spend the money, pay
it down one hundred percent, and get the best prospect
you can for both of them. That is my take
on a Glass. I have no idea what he's going
to get traded for. Predicting trades is impossible baseball, because
(19:36):
even if you try to find like prospect lists and
who the best guy is, you have no idea how
the team itself views each of these prospects because every
team is different. Every team views another team's prospects completely different,
so picking individual packages is impossible. But for Iglesias and
for Marcel, my number one take is pay down the contract,
(20:00):
pay down the contract, get as many teams involved in
these two guys as possible. They're they're performing decently well
at a great time for you. Pay down the contracts,
get as many teams as involved, and get the best
return you can. Because they're rentals, their markets are already suppressed.
Do the best you can with that by paying down
the contracts. Do you have an opinion on that?
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yeah, And I'm gonna go one step further. What I
would be telling teams, especially these teams like the Texas Rangers,
who are looking for a bat as well as bullpen help,
tell them you'll combine Rice Selliglacius and mar Solo Zuna.
Tell them you can have Marcelo Zuna, you can have
Ryce Elliglacias, and you can have ten million dollars. Here's
the specific top fifteen prospect that I want plus a
(20:44):
lottery ticket. That's what I would look to do. Maximize
your total value. And I think you potentially could do
that by trading them together for teams that need that
type of difference, because there's a lot of teams that
need both that middle of the order bat as well
as that bullpen help. Getting these guys who have had
the track record about Zuna and Iglesias. I bet that
(21:04):
would be an intriguing proposal to someone. Here's Azuna, here's
Rysull Iglesias, and here's ten million dollars. Let's talk prospects,
and that gives you the opportunity to really increase your
chances of getting that relevant arm, that relevant position player
that you like. That is a strategy that I would
potentially implement the right situation if I were the Braves.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, I like that. You don't see that a lot.
Actually teams usually prefer trading guys individually because they feel
like they can get more. But when it's a rental
situation like this, I think that logic actually holds up
decently well. Like, combine them, instead of getting two lower
level prospects, combine them, try to get maybe one kind
(21:49):
of more upper level prospect. I don't hate that. So
with Pierce Johnson, and this is a this is a
controversial one because everybody has a different opinion on what
to do with Pierce. First of all, let's be clear
about something, and I'm gonna throw this take to our guy,
Brad Rowland, because he's made it. He's made this point
a bunch, and he's one hundred percent right. Pierce Johnson
has team controlled next year. Pierce Johnson has team control
(22:13):
next year. If they trade Pierce Johnson, they will have
traded a guy that has team controlled next year. Now
I think they should pick trade Pierce Johnson. But the
all the reporting for the last six weeks has been
the Braves are not trading anybody that's got team control.
But for some reason, Pierce Johnson's name keeps being included
in like trade articles. That is that he's available. Well,
(22:33):
Pierce Johnson has team control next year. Now, yeah, it's
a team option. It's not guaranteed money, but that that
team option is guaranteed to be picked up, so it's
basically guaranteed money. So you know, that's been bugging Brad
like crazy, and it's been bugging me too. It doesn't
actually make any sense that Pierce Johnson's name keeps being included.
But my take on Pierce Johnson is he's he is
(22:56):
having a fantastic seed. Pierce Johnson has an ERA in
the two five. I knew he was having a good year.
I did not realize Pierce Johnson had an ERA in
the two point five. Like it's like a two point
five six ERA or something like that. He's having an
unbelievable year. When you have a reliever having this good
of year, the odds of his value ever being higher
(23:16):
than this are just always not great. That's just how
relievers are and you need to take advantage of that.
And I know people gonna say they're gonna try to
win next year. I still believe you can build a
bullpen in the offseason, especially if you've got some decent
young guys like they do that they're gonna try out
for the bullpen probably in the last two months of
the season. You still have Dylan Lee. I'm not saying
(23:38):
you try to with Dylan Lee and just tear the
whole thing down. But Pierce Johnson on that deal, with
a year and a half a team control could bring
you back a legitimate like this is not a rental.
You could get a legitimate prospect for Pierce Johnson. And
again it's a reliever. Yeah, he might be good next year,
he also might be hurt or sucked next year. Are
(24:01):
not days, Bill. Look at Joejamenez from last year to
this year, look at Risel from last year to this year.
That's what happens with relievers. You don't know they could
just it's just it's so volatile. If you have one
that's good right now that you can move for real value,
I think you have to do it, and I understand
the argument for not doing it. I trust me. I
see him. I mentioned every time he gets brought up.
(24:21):
I understand the argument. But I'm trading Pierce Johnson. That
incredible year he is having, having another year of team
control next year. I think he's probably your best trade ship. Honestly,
I would do it.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
I would as well, because again to me, it's always
I trust Alex and Thopoulos's ability to go find another
reliever between now and next year who could perform at
the level of Pierce Johnson. You've got Joejamenez coming back
next year. You've got Dylan Lee as well. You've been
able to find pieces in the past. I know I
(24:55):
was an advocate.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
For the Bullpen.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Over the past couple of months, we've seen as their
usage has gone up. As you've mentioned, Stephen, they have
not been that great. So that's a fair point as well.
But this is why I agree with you in trading
Pierce Johnson. It's because Alex and Thoppless's strength of his
has been going to find underperforming relievers and bring them
here to Atlanta and they perform quite well. Trust in
(25:18):
your ability to do that and get value from one
that you've already done that with. That's why I would
trade Pierce Johnson. So I completely agree. Now we're talking
about trading these guys, and I know that Steven had
mentioned it's hard to really put names to a potential return.
But what might we be looking for when it comes
to a potential return. I have some thoughts on that,
(25:39):
plus more from Tulbart's Tropical Takes after a word from
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Speaker 1 (26:45):
So, of course, if you're here with us, the Braves
obviously are playing the Royals as we speak. You know,
the result of the game is not that great, but
it's you know, what we're used to. But we're here
talking trades less than twenty four hours or forty eight
hours away from the trade deadline. We're in the midst
of Tolbert's tropical takes, one of three takes from Stephen Tolbert,
(27:06):
the Man himself back from vacation. His first one was
a pretty logical one, in discussing Pierce Johnson potentially being traded.
We have two more that will wait you as we
wrap up this edition of the Hember Territory Podcast. But
before we get to that, Stephen, I know that you
had just mentioned it's hard to put names to a
potential return for the Braves, but I don't think that
(27:26):
it's hard to identify what this team needs and it's
them getting what they don't have. And for me, that
is two potential things. Number One, I want back a older,
outfilled prospect that has shown a track record of being productive.
Maybe it's in college, maybe it's he's blocked and he's
had a year or two of good major or minor
(27:48):
league production. I want that in our system because we
don't have that right now. And the reason why we
don't have that right now is because we've not been
able to identify that. But we need that right now
because going into next year, you're gonna have Jerkson Profar
coming off his ped suspension. Who is Jerrickson Profar? Michael
Harris are very disappointing your offensively though he's picked it
(28:11):
up as a plate and I don't think that it
should be lost on anyone. Michael Harris has had some
injury concerns in the past himself, and of course Ronald
Acoba Junior, who once again unfortunately has a bit of
an injury scare. You need some outfield depth in the system,
some outfield depth that's relevant. Go get that type of talent.
The other thing I want to go get a controllable
bullpen arm. Alex and Thoppolis can identify bullpen pieces. We
(28:36):
need to get some bullpen pieces that are reliable, that
don't cost much. Those are two potential things I would
focus on.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Yes, I think those are both very good points, especially
the outfield because we have seen you know, Alex has
talked about it, like you very rare. It's like almost
like a rotation, you very rarely just need three outfielders
in a season, And it seems like they have had
to go out and get outfielders mid season in mass
(29:07):
more than once, where they've had to go get two
or three outfielders because they have nothing in their system
that even resembles like a major league caliber outfielder one
because they don't. I mean, they've just been drafting so
pitching heavy the last seven or eight years. And then
add in the international markets where they really haven't been
they just have nothing and so that's a great one.
I agree with that. Relievers. Of course, I can hear
(29:30):
people already saying we need shortstop prospects. Oh, yes, of
course we'll take any shortstop prospects. I can hear people
say we need starters because Bryce Elder is still like
the sixth best charter on this in this franchise, and
you know, I'm not sure how tenable that is going forward,
although the Braves do have some really exciting young pitchers
coming into Triple A, either now or in the next
(29:52):
you know, a few weeks months, whatever. So yeah, I
agree with that. And what I would add to that
is there is a there is a line of thinking
about BPA which is just best player available that can
also stand for best prospect available, where like you just
take the best offer, like even if it's not necessarily
a position that you need, you just take the best.
(30:14):
You just get as much value as you can and
figure it out. And I I do agree with that
with some extent. But I the outfield need is so
dire in the in the minor leagues for the Braves
that I think I would side with you on this, Sean.
I think the Braves do need to target a young,
like controllable, exciting outfielder, because every single year, without fail,
(30:38):
they need outfielders and they have nothing in their system
to go get. I've got a couple more takes, but
I agree with you. I think they do need to
go get an outfielder somewhere in these trades. And if
they trade Pierce Johnson, I agree they need to include
get some sort of relief prospect back where they can
you know, they can reasonably assume that guy is gonna
(30:59):
be out play a role in the twenty twenty six bullpit.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Absolutely and so and those I think are also reasonable
takes because those type of outfielders. I don't want a
lottery ticket. I don't want someone who's really nineteen. I mean,
if you go get a stud prospect who's nineteen, who's
in the top five of somebody's system by all means,
but who's got a little bit of production, go get
a guy who you know may not necessarily be a star,
but can call up and you know, eventually be your
(31:25):
long term answer and left field. That's the type of thing.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
And see, I would say teams are usually pretty okay
with trading those guys. Yeah, it's harder to get like
shortstop prospects because everybody wants them, but like outfielders, especially
if they're blocked in any way. I feel like that's
a reasonable I feel like there's a reasonable idea.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Now there's a certain Texas Rangers prospect who's number ten
in their system right now. I won't go into this
because Steven hates when I talk about former balls, but
my point is is that I think that that's something
I would target that in a potential relief form that
could step up as soon as next year. Okay, so
back to to tropical takes. The first take, of course,
(32:02):
was a very very logical one, Pierce Johnson on the
move in a market that should net you a very
good return with the need for right handed relief Pidgy Talbert.
Tropical takes Number two when it comes to the trade deadline,
would be.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
If you are going to explore a trade for Sean
Murphy in the off season, there is absolutely no reason
not to do it now. And I will give you
my logic. So I was sitting on a beach in
Jamaica and I was doing what everybody does. I was
reading positioned by position trade market pieces, and one thing
(32:40):
I had discovered is that there are no decent catchers
to trade in this market, none like the best, the
best guys like Joey Bart And there are multiple teams
that need good catchers. And here's my logic. If you're
gonna explore the trade anyways in the offseason, you've already
decided which way you're gonna go. You're just delaying it.
(33:03):
And the reason you're delaying it is because it is
hard to trade starting catchers in the off season. All Right,
I'm sorry mid season, but that's a problem for the
team that's buying, not a team that's selling. If somebody
wants to bring Sean Murphy in mid season and they
feel like they can get him, you know, adjusted to
a new pitching staff on the fly, that's on them.
That's their problem. That's not your problem. But if you're
(33:26):
going to explore this in the off season, why not
explore it now where there's no other catchers on the market.
Sean Murphy's having a terrific season. You could get a
tremendous return. Sean Murphy would then be able to contribute
to another postseason for the team that's acquiring him, which
(33:46):
adds to his value. Now, if you're not gonna trade
him at the if you're not gonna trade him in
the off season. If you are, if you have decided
that you're gonna keep both of them into the future,
which is a reasonable take, then this is this is
you can ignore this whole take, but if you're gonna
explore it. And I was thinking about this because I
was in my head. I was thinking, well, Sean Murphy trade,
that's gotta be in the off season. But then I
(34:06):
stopped to think, why does it have to be in
the off season Because a team has a hard time
getting a new catcher up to speed. But if they're
willing to do it, they're the one that has to
do that. You don't. You just have to get the
big return. So if you're gonna explore it in the
off season, do it now where there is no other
good catchers on the market. There's multiple teams that need
(34:29):
a catcher, multiple teams that have really good farm systems
that need a catcher, Like it's on them to get
to get Sean Murphy up to speed on their on
their pitchers. It's not your that's not your deal. So
if you're gonna explore trading Sean Murphy in the off season,
there's absolutely no reason not to do it now. It's
take number two.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
So I agree and disagree. I think that you make
sense and the fact that, listen, you're not suggesting just
trade Sean Murphy. To trade Sean Murphy, and.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
I want to make that point clear, only if you're
can considering only if you're doing it in the off
season anyway. Yeah, I'm not saying if they've decided they
don't want to trade Sean Murphy, then you can ignore
this whole take. But if they have decided we're going
to trade Sean Murphy, we're just gonna do it in
the off season. That I don't agree with that. I
think you could do it now well.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
And the thing is, the other reason why is because
Sean Murphy himself, Sean Murphy's bat by itself, would be
one of the probably top five bats out there, you know,
and then you're going to being, you know, a potential
top five defensive catcher who's under control. He'd be a
great commodity. I again think that you only Tradinghi if
it's an offer that you cannot refuse. And the reason
(35:36):
why I would trade to the off season is because
to me, that may double or triple your pull of
teams that potentially would go after Sean Murphy, and then
that and of itself, could make his market go up
to where you can really get an understanding of what
you need in return, because I'm only trading Sean Murphy
if I truly am answering a need, which is another
(35:58):
significant arm, maybe a shor stop for the future, something
along those lines. And if you hold on to Sean
Murphy for the rest of the year, you both double
up on knowing that Drake Baldwin is the real deal,
but also in getting better idea of what you need.
So I'm fine if they want to trade Shaw Murphy
O the next you know, one plus stays if they
(36:18):
get an offer they simply can't refuse. But in terms
of if you're trying to drum up the best value
for him, I think you have a better chance of
doing that in the off season than currently.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
And one thing I'll say, and I want to say
into a microphone, there is absolutely an argument for keeping
both guys, like one hundred percent, because I can hear
people people say it all the time, like why trade them?
You you always need more than one catcher. One hundred
percent true. The logic for trading him is can you
afford to have two catchers this good when you have
so many other holes on the team, when you could
(36:52):
use his value to plug another hole, Which is also
a fair point, Like reasonable people can disagree on this
one because you can make an argument both ways. So
there is a reason, there is an absolute argument to
keep him where it's it's one hundred and fifty degrees
in the summer in Atlanta. You got to have two catchers.
The Braves have always had two catchers, keep them both
and and forget about it. The argument against is, are
(37:16):
you going to take Drake Balwin's bat out of the
lineup half? You know, fifty percent of the time, are
you are? Are you going to DH the other one
and give up the DH? You know, basically every single
game your DH is the other catcher. You know, that's
a complicated thing in itself, So there's arguments both ways.
My point is, if you're if you have decided you're
(37:36):
going to do it in the off season, I think
you should explore doing that. But again that's a take.
People can agree or disagree, because.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
The thing that you can't do is that you know,
I know that you mentioned it was complicated. I don't
think it's actually that complicated. The Braves cannot, in my opinion,
the Braves cannot go into next season convincing themselves and
people that it's going to be okay keeping shot Or's
level of offense and Drake Baldwin's level of offense at
the catcher spot, where one would be a leite, which
(38:05):
is fine, but at the DH spot it would be mediocre,
and then they don't do anything to address the fact
that they have near worst in the league production at shortstop,
second Mason, center field. You can't keep both catchers as
your catcher and your DH to their expected level of
offense and then have near league worst offense up the
middle at three positions. So if Seawn Murphy helps out
(38:27):
in one of those areas, and the obvious one is
shortstop where it makes sense in that situation, go ahead
and make the move. So my point that I'm getting
at is is, I think that's easier to figure out
in the off season. But if you can make that
move now and it makes sense, don't be hesitant to
do it now. So not necessarily agree to disagree. Agree
to a different level. I guess you could say, now
(38:50):
here's Johnson on the move, makes logical sense, Sean Murphy
being moved.
Speaker 4 (38:55):
Now.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
You can look at it both ways, but I think
that we've saved.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
The best for last.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Tibert's Tropical Takes number three. Take it away, Stephen Talbert.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
So full disclosure. This is one I thought about in
the shower. And this is one of those you think
about where you think, I really should never tell anybody
about this, Like this is just you're gonna get made
fun of, You're gonna get ripped.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
But this is like the song that you sing in
the shower that only you and maybe one or two
other people in the world know, but you never would
tell anybody.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
It's that type, exactly that type. But I think I
can make I think there are people that will agree.
I think I can make the case where it's at
least logical. People will most people will hate it, but
I think it's logical.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
By the way, that song for me is Adele's Hello.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
That's tam I, that's it, that's it's it's a wonderful.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
It's a wonderful song.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Nobody needs to know that it's wonderful. I'm just gonna
say it, and then I'll give my logic. Man, I'm
gonna get ripped for this. I I would explore in
the next well I would have started a week ago
or two weeks ago. I would explore trading Spencer Strider.
I can't believe I just said that to a microphone.
(40:10):
All right, here we go. Here's my logic. Spencer Strider
is a slim, right handed, hard throwing pitcher, and those
guys are historically dubious when it comes to durability. And
with Spencer, we have already seen in his case, specifically
(40:31):
durability questions, two major elbow surgeries already in his career.
Starting next year, Spencer makes twenty million dollars a year.
I think it's twenty million, twenty two million, and twenty
two million the year after that, and then I think
there's a five million dollar buyout on his twenty nine option.
So the Braves O Spencer Strider seventy million dollars over
(40:53):
the next three years after this season. There are no
starting pitchers on this on the market. There's never any
starting pitchers on the market, and every team in baseball
needs starting pitching. And you are at a time where
you are both selling and Spencer Strider is healthy and
pitching pretty well. How much do you want to risk
(41:15):
that at some point in this contract, you are going
to be paying Spencer Strider twenty plus million dollars a
year to rehab another serious injury versus getting out now
with plus value. Somebody would take that contract and give
you prospects on top of it, because there's always a
surplus charge at the trade deadline. There's no starting pitching
(41:36):
out there. You could probably get a substantial amount for
Spencer Strider. Get off that contract and listen. I hear,
I trust me. I know what people are gonna say.
Why would you trade Spencer Strider when you want to
win next year? This is about risk management of an
asset that is highly risky because he is. This is
not Spencer Swallenbach, who still makes league minimum. This is
(41:58):
a guy you are paying twenty plus million dollars a
year two for the next three years after this, who's
already had substantial elbow troubles in his career, who's already
seen a dip in the velo. The velo has not
come all the way back. He's still been a really
good pitcher, but it has not come all the way back.
If that VLO dips anymore, you can have a serious problem.
(42:20):
So it's this take is more about risk management. He's
healthy right now, and teams all over baseball needs starting pitching.
You could get off that contract. I understrust me people.
I understand why this is crazy. The Braves are one
thousand percent not going to do it. But I was thinking, man,
(42:43):
that's a risky contract, and the Braves can't really afford,
literally afford to have a twenty million dollar pitcher just
on the sidelines for months if he if he has
another serious injury. He's healthy right now, he's pitching pretty well.
Nobody is selling starting I don't know I can make
the case the Braves aren't gonna do it. Hear that.
(43:06):
If you hear nothing else, hear that the Braves are
not going to do this. This is Stevens. Stephen was
in one hundred and fifty degree beach. He got lightheaded
and had some half assed idea and decided to talk
about on the podcast because the team sucks and there's
nothing else to talk about. But that's my logic. What
do you think I did not prep Sean for this.
(43:27):
This is Sean's hearing this for the first time I
wanted to be authentic. I want to hear your gut reaction.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
I The points that you bring up as to why
there would be any logic to it, I think are valid.
The amount that you're going to invest in Spencer Strider
moving forward goes up significantly. The risk in getting what
you got from him two years ago of not getting
(43:52):
that has gone up significantly because of the returns that
were seeing from him post serious injury. I get all
that absolutely so I am not I don't feel that
it is I think that it's obviously far fetched, but
I don't think that your approach to why it could
make sense, I think there's logic to it.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
With that being said, the biggest butt in the world
is cod I mean I could just the biggest butt
of all time is coming out.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
With that being said, I definitely not consider trading Spencer
Strider right now. And it's not just because of the
name Spencer Strider. It's not just because of what he
could be once he gets an off season of health
underneath his belt. One of the biggest reasons why I
don't trade Spencer Strider right now. He's your healthiest pitcher
(44:42):
with the track record that he's had.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
By the fact that he is your only healthy pitcher.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Exactly because you're going into twenty twenty six with the
fact that your top six options, uh top six, top seven,
your top six six or seven options Spencer Strider, Chris Sale, Spencer, Schwellenbach, Ronaldo, Lopez,
Grant Holmes, AJ Smith, saw Shavor, and Bryce Elder. Okay,
(45:09):
the only two healthy options out of that right now
are Spencer Strider and Bryce Elder. And Spencer Strider just
came back two months ago from an internal brace surgery
that basically is just a level down from Tommy John.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
So let me let me add this. I think the
point you just made is actually making my point because
if you if you already have that much injury risk
in your rotation, can you afford literally, can you afford
to have twenty million dollars tied to Spencer Strider when
you already have this much injury risk in your rotation? Sales, Schwallenbach, Lopez,
(45:44):
Can you afford to have another guy Spencer Strider making
twenty million dollars who, quite frankly, you don't know is
gonna be healthy for any period of that contract. You
have to that that's the point that I, well, no,
you don't have to. That's that's the point you like,
you could explore not doing it.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
But in my opinion, if you want to contend, and
there's another element to this, I'm gonna get to in
just a moment. Next year, say you trade Spencer Strider. Okay,
you're going into next year thirty seven year old Chris Sale,
who if healthy and he should be just fine. He
cracked a couple of ribs. He's gonna be his arms
gonna be fine, Chris Sale. You think he's a top
twenty pitcher of the game. Next year, Spencer Swellenbach. As
(46:26):
long as there's no serious effect from his elbow, you
have to think to yourself, Okay, he's gonna be all right.
What is there beyond that for the Braves to have it?
Speaker 2 (46:35):
Well, But then you've got to also include the extra
twenty million dollars a year you know, have to spend,
plus all of the return you got for Spencer Strider.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
Okay, that's that that that is a fair point.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
That is a very fair point, because wit Spencer Strider's
injury history, you might be going in the next year
without him either way.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Fair enough, But you can take the twenty million dollars
that you get back from him per year, and you
could take the turn from him. It's still going to
be very, very hard to turn that into what Spencer
Strider could be for you could be yeah. Yet, But
here's the other reason why I don't trade Spencer Strider.
And this may be the fact that I put more
value on this than you, Steven. I want Spencer Stryder
(47:15):
in my damn clubhouse. I want Spencer Strider. Im a
damn dugout.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
That might be the best argument.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Yeah, I want Spencer Strider. When Spencer Strider is yelling
at the top of his lungs at our coaching staff
to pay some damn attention to what's going on or
questioning what they're doing when it's clear that what they're
doing is not working. We need that type of leadership
in the clubhouse. I want that type of mentality. When
we talk about Spencer Strider and the fact that right
(47:45):
now he may not be working with as much as
he did a pre injury, I still am competent. Spencer
Strider is going to be a top of the Baseball
world pitcher because the mentality that he has has going
to allow for him to reinvent himself to be able
to be successful for a winner. And I want the
Spencer Strider who's going to be motivated in the playoffs
(48:05):
to come back and lead our team to playoff victories. Steven,
I don't mean to be preaching, because I know that
you feel the same way, but I need a Spencer
Strider in the Braves Dugout now and years moving forward
for us to have the chance that I think we're
capable of having to be able to win. Because if
you trade Spencer Strider for multiple reasons, that's the clearest sign,
(48:27):
the biggest sign that you're probably looking to at least retool,
if not revealed. I'm not to that level yet. I
get everything that you said, and everything that you said
was clearly logical. But even more than the performance of
Spencer Strider is the person of Spencer Strider, and I
need that person in the Braves Dugout to make this
transition back to a contender as successful as possible.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Yeah, that's the best. I mean on top of like,
there is a x percent chance he could actually get
back to like best picture in baseball level, Spencer Strider's
not like there's a very real argument that after just
a normal offseason, he comes back to throw a ninety
nine one hundred, one hundred and one next year and
you know you're fine. So that is probably the best argument.
(49:12):
But after that, like the fire the dude plays with
and conducts himself with, it's just something I think the
Braves really do desperately need. And so yes, I agree
with you, that is I think the best case for
not doing it. But I do not like having injury
prone pitchers signed to twenty plus million dollar contracts. And
(49:34):
if you get to a trade deadline where you're selling
and he's healthy and there's no other pictures on the market, man,
I would at least be tempted to see what's out there.
The Braves are not doing this, Please hear that this
is this is an exercise in hypotheticals because the team
sucks and it's trade deadline season and this is the
stuff that people like us talk about. But it did
(49:57):
come across to me as like, man, you can make
a strong argument it's not gonna happen. But I do
think you can make an argument, and.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
I want to make it clear on mind as well.
My passion with the idea of the fact that the Braves,
if they ever considered Spencer Strider, they need to let
competence reign and not trade him. Stephen Tolbert has that competence.
He has that he's one of the smartest people when
it comes to covering the Braves that I met in
My turn.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
Well, anybody who just listened to this episode is going
to disagree with.
Speaker 1 (50:26):
You, Well, I don't. I'm not sending here preaching about
Spencer Strider because Steven needs convincing of that. He knows
what Spencer Strider is capable of, but he also knows
the value of the person is Spencer Strider. The reason
why I'm preaching about the person that Spencer Strider is
is because we need as much of that type of mentality.
We need that is as much type of that accountability
(50:47):
and that passion to win as possible as we can
get in that damn clubhouse over the next six months
to get back to being a contender. That's the biggest
reason why I put faith in the fact that Spencer
Strider is gonna be a major part and us once
again being a contender, and I hope to God he
has the opportunity to show his full worth and playoff
(51:07):
series for years to come. Stephen, do you have anything else?
Since we wrap up this edition of the Hammer Territory podcast.
I didn't mean to get us in the pulpit tonight, Stephen,
but here we are.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
Listen the first episode back in a while. I wanted
to bring some takes. I was literally sitting in the
middle of the Atlantic Ocean just thinking of, like, what
are some of the hottest tickes I could come up with?
So yeah, it's always I mean, listen, trades are always
hilarious and fun to talk about. We've got a trade
deadline coming six pm on Thursday. I'm pretty sure Sean
and I are going to do another show tomorrow. Obviously
(51:40):
there will be an emergency show for anything that happens.
Please do not send me DMS and text about trading
Spinster strata. Listen, guys, it's just an exercise and hypothetical takes.
Nobody freak out on me. But any trades that do
actually happen. I think Roscio Glas is getting traded. I
think Marcelo Zoon is getting traded. Pierce Johnson, I think
(52:00):
he should get traded. Whether he does, it's probably more
fifty to fifty, but whatever happens, we are going to
cover it the next forty eight hours. I think Brian
Scott are going to do a show Thursday night to
recap it all after the deadline has passed. But you
will be hearing for us multiple times in the next
forty eight hours.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
So while all this conversation was fun and enjoyable, we
also want to make sure that we are fully covering
the team to the minute of what occurs. There has
been further reports on Ronald was Kuna Junior is in
a walking boot and he will be going on the IL.
Now this things, This makes things a bit more concerning.
(52:42):
I'm not going to sit here and act like that.
I'm someone that knows how the medical prognosis and all
this stuff goes when it comes to this type of injury.
But what I will say, if you follow the NBA,
you know how quickly something can turn when it comes
to the Achilles from a stre to something more serious.
I'm not saying anything is indicated that that has been
(53:04):
the case, but the fact that Ronald Acuna Junior is
leaving the stadium in a walking boot and is going
on the IEL, that is a bit more concerning than
where we were, so do want to give that report?
Speaker 2 (53:16):
Actually I changed my mind. Trade them all, trade everybody.
I don't care.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
As we're recording this podcast again, the latest when it
comes to Ronald Acunya Junior is of a few minutes ago.
Is that again he is per Mark Bowman, he is
in a walking boot and he is going on the il.
This was from about twenty five and fifteen minutes ago.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
Oh my god, is don't Mark Bowman said he was
holding back tears talking to the media.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
So we will have more obviously on this as time
goes on. Obviously, we're also waiting to hear more on
the official prognosis on grant homes. So it could potentially
be a a very, very significantly braves not only this year,
but it looks like that things could be even worse
(54:07):
than we expected from this point on. Hope to god
that's not the case. But again, it's been a lot
of fun speculating about trades, but it just got more
real now.
Speaker 2 (54:16):
That I'm going back to the I'm going back to
the Atlantic Ocean.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
This is again that we're talking about. We're talking about
serious injuries. Of course, we'll be with you non stop
with coverage when it comes to the Braves, myself, Stephen
as well as Brad and Scotch. Make sure to check
out all the great content when it comes to Hammer
Territory across all forms of social media, Foul Territory across
(54:40):
all forms of social media as well, mind self stats,
sac Sean Coleman on x slash Twitter, Stephen Tolbert as well.
We may or may not do another quick Hammer Territory
podcast as we get more news when it comes to Ronald,
or any more news tonight when it comes to trade.
Make sure to stick with us. Listen, go Braves. Until
next time we will talk to you and soon here
(55:02):
on the Hammer Territory Podcast
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