August 12, 2025 • 38 mins
Episode 248 of the Hammer Territory Podcast reacts to a blowout loss for the Atlanta Braves on Tuesday at the hands of the New York Mets. Shawn Coleman and Stephen Tolbert discuss an ugly game from Spencer Strider and whether there is reason for concern, the pending returns of Ronald Acuna Jr. and Chris Sale, and much more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Welcome on and all to the Here Territory Podcast. My
name is Sean Coleman. Hope, wherever you are and wherever
you are listening, you're having a great start to your week.
Braves back in action tonight after probably the most fun
off day they've had in the while, had a great
weekend against the Marlins. The offense came alive and we
get to Tuesday against the struggle of that Stephen, New
(00:41):
York and large lightdown. But hey, we've seen it enough
this year, so we're used to it now. But as
always my podcast partners with me Steven Tobert Stephen again
some really awesome player over the weekend. The offense was
still there tonight, five runs scored, but the pitching, as
we're going to talk about the pitching just unfortunately was.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Not Yeah what's up buddy? Yeah, I mean it was
a big letdown game obviously a big weekend series. There
is a weird dynamic going on right now with Brais
fans about like do you want the team to win?
You know, there's a lot of Braves fans right now
that don't really want to win these games. They want
to lose these games. They want better draft position. You know,
(01:19):
the whole idea is, if you're gonna have a miserable season,
at least make it miserable enough where you get some
high quality draft capital out of it. And I understand
that I am not there. I still want to win games.
The MLB draft just doesn't work like other drafts. There's
a lottery system in place anyway, So even if you
have the second or first or second best to odds,
(01:40):
it doesn't mean that's where you're gonna pick. So I
still want to win games, quite honestly, And so tonight
was a letdown. And Spencer Strider is obviously the big story.
He's gonna be the main topic tonight because you know,
that doesn't just matter for twenty twenty five. That matters
very much for twenty twenty six and beyond, especially considering
you know, the big rays that he gets starting next year.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Absolutely, and that's the whole you know point where we're
at in the season is that the results. And I'm
right there with you, you know, we we we'll talk
about it, you know, at some point not later down
the line, about you know, the whole idea of tanking
in baseball and do you really want to lose it?
All costs and all that different stuff. That's a subject
for another time. But you know, in these games, yes,
the results matter, especially if the offense is playing well.
(02:25):
They're playing well enough to win, let's win. But tonight
the offense scored five runs. You know, we've talked before
about how often the Braves went when they score five runs,
but you don't usually see Spencer Strider give up eight runs,
and that's where the concern starts. Spencer Strider this year
has been a bit of a it's been a bit
(02:46):
more confusing, I think than a concern because we've always
got the caveat of okay, he's coming back from injury,
so just you know, we we we preached on this podcast,
you know, talking about the fact that it was very
it was more likely than not he wouldn't be his
normal self this year coming off the significant injury that
he had in twenty twenty four. A few starts after
(03:08):
he came back, there was the concern about the velocity.
Then that ticked up close to what it had formerly been.
But as time has gone on, that was about two
two and a half months ago. Is time's gone on, Steven?
You know, the issues that I think are there with
Strider are kind of three things. Number One, yes, the
velocity has increased, but it also is a few miles
per hour lower, especially on the fastball, than where it
(03:30):
used to be. The second thing is is that Spencer
Strider is running into trouble more often than not. In
the past, he would give up some homers, but they
wouldn't really hurt him because he has already had a
big enough lead to work with. Now it's almost as
if forty to fifty percent of the runs that he
gives up is off the homer. And the third reason
(03:51):
that's most concerning his fastball is getting absolutely hammered. You
know that the fastball, it's one of the worst fastballs
out there in terms of exit velocity. It's gone from
having a positive run value in the double digits to
having a negative run value. It's not just about the velocity,
it's about the fact that it's not being effectively placed
as well. So there are layers to this, and when
(04:12):
you get into layers of a concern, that's when the
concern gets a bit more significant.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
In my opinion, Yes, and I want to say this,
I'm going to use a brad Roland word. It is
a nuanced conversation because he is coming back from major
elbow surgery and it is a it is very clearly
unfair to judge him until we get a full off
(04:38):
season of him being able to train to lift weights
to get his strength, and then see what he looks
like next year, because there's a very good chance next year,
the next you know, twenty twenty sixth version of Strider
after a completely healthy offseason looks very different. So that matters.
It is it is it is unfair to start making
(05:01):
conclusions right now because he just hasn't had that time
to build back up like he will once the winner
gets here. With that being said, so we're gonna put
that over here. With that being said, there are some
concerning signs like there just are, and it would be
disingenuous not to mention those. You know, in twenty twenty two,
(05:23):
when he was basically the best pitcher on the planet,
his fastball averaged ninety eight point one miles per hour.
This year it's at ninety five point five. He's lost
almost three miles per hour on his fastball. That is
a massive drop. That's mass. I mean, that's three miles
per hour on your fastball is a huge deal, and
(05:44):
anybody in baseball or anybody who covers baseball who tells
you it's not is lying to you. That's a massive drop.
I mean, I remember watching Mike Foltonevich. Not to bring back,
you know, horrible memories, but like one Sason Fulty came
in throwing like ninety five ninety six instead of his
normal like ninety eight ninety nine, and that guy was
(06:06):
out of baseball shortly after. Now Streider is. I mean,
Fulty was a head case. So this is not quite that,
but it is to illustrate that fastball velocity. There's a
reason why every team in baseball chases it because it's
a huge deal, and Spencer has lost a significant amount
of fastball velocity. But I don't think that's where the
(06:26):
problem begins and ends. I think the main problem for
Spencer is that when you've spent your whole life throwing
that hard ninety eight ninety nine one hundred, you've been
told your whole life just throw it over the plate.
It doesn't matter where, just throw it over the plate
because they can't hit it. Just don't walk people, And
that's what Spencer did for most of his career. I mean,
(06:47):
it didn't matter where he put it over the plate,
it was gonna get a whiff because it was coming
at one hundred miles an hour. Well, you can't approach
your fastball the same way when you throw ninety five
ninety six. You can't throw it down the middle. And
he's never had to have like the PenPoint fastball command
that you kind of have to have when you're throwing
ninety four ninety five ninety six. And so going into
(07:10):
next year, I'm gonna be watching for two things. Does
any more velocity come back after a completely healthy offseason?
That's a massive question. It is like him throwing ninety seven,
ninety eight, ninety nine even is a big deal versus
ninety four, ninety five ninety six, Like every every mile
per hour matters here. So that's the first thing I'm
(07:31):
gonna be looking for. The second thing i'mna looking for
is Spencer's a very competitive, very smart guy. He's gonna
make adjustments to whatever he's got, whatever, hell, whatever he's
got in his arsenal, he's gonna make an adjustment to that.
What are those adjustments? Does he have better fastball command?
Is he more you know, conscientious of where he throws.
His fastball. Spencer has always been like a high fastball
usage guy, like in the sixty percent, Like does that
(07:54):
go down? Does he reinvent himself as a different type
of pitcher if the if the fastball velocity doesn't come back.
You know, there's a lot of questions, but it is
it's only fair to give him a full offseason, a
full winter to train and see what he looks like
next year before we make any you know, radical conclusions.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
But it is concerning.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
I think that's fair if you're a fan out there
and you're concerned, especially now that his you know, he
talked about his salary jumps up to twenty million dollars
a year next year and for the next three years.
That's what the brazowien. And right now, of course, he
doesn't look like a twenty million dollar pitcher. But what
does he look like next spring? That's gonna be a
big question.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
And I think the other thing that stands out about
it is, you know, it certainly matters if he can
get back to what he was because you know, fifteen
months ago, I've said it multiple times and I believe
that this was the case fifteen months ago, before his injury.
You know, before we ran into the offense struggling and
(08:54):
all this different stuff. You go back to the twenty
and twenty three season. I know people don't want to
hear that, but you go back to the twenty twenty
three season when Ronald Coonie Junior was winning MVP and
Spencer Streider was pre injury. I always felt this way.
The Braves clearly were a contender just like anybody else,
but Spencer Strider and ronald'cunyan Junior are what set them apart.
(09:16):
Those are the two biggest reasons, in my opinion, why
the Braves were probably considered the overall favorite as a
contender in twenty two and twenty three, though nothing came
to fruition in the playoffs. We know that Ronald 'cunie
Junior likely will be back to his overall superstar self
if Spencer Strider is not back to that level. I
do have confidence that he if he cannot regain all
(09:40):
of his velocity, I feel that he will retool himself
to be an effective pitcher. But what does effective look like?
To the point that he clearly is what we need
to be the full contender that we want to be again.
That to me is also a question can Spencer Strouder
get back to be in a Superstar. I feel like
they're definit Lee's outcome where he can, but the confidence
(10:03):
level in that being the outcome, I don't blame anybody
if it's dwindled a little bit. We've got questions that
need to be answered. I don't feel as if that's
unfair as a response to what we've seen for Spencer Strotter,
and to your point, Steven, we need to give him
the full grace of the off season to come back
as he needs to be. I think he's going to
put everything into being the picture that he wants was,
(10:26):
But if he naturally cannot be that, we don't know
what that outcome looks like. If he can't be the
Spencer Strider of old, what does the new Spencer Striter
look like. We certainly hope that it's all we're seeing
right now. We think it will be better than that,
but we don't know, and I think that's the main
source of concern.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, and listen, I mean we've said it like when
Spencer there's always this main concern of like is he healthy?
And that's just always going to be there. But now
on top of it, there's this concern that, even if
he is healthy, if he doesn't have his velocity back,
what kind of picture is he going to be? So
it's just kind of a second concern on top of
already the main concern, which is, dear God, I hope
(11:07):
he doesn't get hurt again. So yeah, it's fair, and listen,
this is why it's dangerous to hand out twenty million
dollar plus extensions to pictures. I mean, it just is.
It's a it's a very risky proposition, especially guys who
live off fastball velocity, like if because if these guys
get hurt and the fast ball velocity doesn't come back
(11:29):
or isn't quite the same, you know, what do you
have left? And you know, with Spencer, he might have
to get to a point where he has to reinvent himself.
But again, he's a hyper competitive dude. He's not just
gonna you know, I brought up Fulty before just because
of the fastball drop, but Fulty was was such a
mental case. Strider is is so much more of a sound,
(11:54):
steady dude, Like, yeah, I have much more confidence that
Strider can figure something else out than I would other guys.
So yes, he may have to reinvent himself. But again,
it's only fair that we give him the full off
season before we even get to that point. I think
he's earned that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
To sum it all up, you know, again, there's the
words concern and confidence. I feel very confident that Spencer Strider,
with a fully healthy offseason, is going to return to
being an effective, top of the rotation type pitcher for
the Braves. But is that also in line with be
in the pitcher that he was potentially the best overall
(12:37):
pitching commodity in baseball two years ago. I don't know
if that's going to be the outcome. We have to
wait and see if the velocity comes back. I'm very
confident that he could be that again, but if he doesn't,
I feel confident that he'll find a way to be effective.
But what that looks like, I'm not sure. And that's
where I feel that it's more than fair to be
a bit concerned. But one thing that we are getting
(13:00):
some answers on to one of the biggest concerns in
the first half of the season is the fact that
Michael Harris the second is absolutely going off right now
A bit on exactly why that is and also why
it should not come. Is that much of a surprise.
More on that right after a word from our partners.
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Speaker 1 (14:19):
For Live All right, Steven, So when we talk about
the second half of the season so far, listen, not
as much has changed in terms of wins and losses.
The Braves offense overall has incrementally incrementally gotten better. But
the thing that I'll say is this is that two
storylines stand out above all. Drake Baldwins pursued a Rookie
(14:42):
of the Year. We've talked about as one of the
bigger storylines. But to me, the biggest storyline in terms
of overall disappointment in the first half the season to
outstand in development in the second half has been the
immense improvement of Michael Harris. The second We've seen a
resurgence in his overall approach and in the production. What
do you take away from it?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
So here's my thing with Michael Harris. I feel like
I'm getting Charlie Brown a little bit. Do you understand
that reference? Do you understand what I mean by that? Yeah?
So if you don't know, one of the famous bits
in Charlie Brown was his friend Lucy would hold a
football and she would tell him to kick it and
(15:27):
right as he would go to kick it, she would
move it away and he'd fall on his ass. And
the bit was she would always convince him that she
wasn't going to move the football, that he can kick
it and she wasn't gonna move it, and she'd always
move it. The reason I feel like I'm being Charlie
Browned a little bit is because last year Michael came
(15:48):
back from injury, he was the best player on the team.
I remember he came back in San Francisco at that
Grand Slam. He was, you know, I think he had
like a one thirty WRC plus in the second half
last year. He was the best player in the playoffs
last year far. And I took that performance and I
extrapolated it out over a full season, and I came
on the show and said multiple times you'll remember this
(16:10):
to you, I think Michael Harris is a I think
he's an underrated MVP candidate for the twenty twenty five season.
I said that to you multiple times.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
To make sure we're on the same page. My hot take,
one of my bold predictions was that Michael Harris would
be the starting center fielder for the National League All
Star Team in Atlanta. So me and you were both there.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, and I know that we said that because I
got I've been made fun of on Twitter a thousand
times since now between that, between then and now for
those takes, every week somebody tweets me out I thought
Michael Harris was going to be an MVP candid, And
so now I find myself in a very familiar place
(16:51):
where the second half of the season has arrived and
Michael Harris is looks like one of the best players,
not only on the team in the league. He has
got everything you look for in terms of like if
you're trying to build a foundational like MVP caliber player,
you're looking for power, you're looking for speed, you're looking
(17:13):
for premium defense at a premium defensive spot, and you
can't get more premium than center field, like the These
are the pillars of building like an MVP level player.
And these are all the traits that Michael has. And
you know, we said last offseason, if he could just
make some incremental improvements with the plate discipline stuff, this
(17:33):
guy could win MVP. And I firmly believe that when
I said it almost a year ago now, But now
here we are in twenty twenty five, We're going through
the exact same thing. And so I feel like I'm
being Charlie Browned a little bit. I feel like I
feel like Lucy's holding the football and she's saying, I'm
not gonna pull it away, go ahead and kick it
as hard as you can. And I'm gonna I know
(17:55):
me well enough to know I'm probably gonna try to
kick it. I'm probably gonna fully buy into this Michael
Harris thing in And so I'm gonna ask you, Sean,
is Lucy gonna pull the football? Am I gonna follow
my Am I gonna get made fun of all year
next year because I'm fully bought into this Michael Harris
resurgence or do we need to show a little more
caution with these second half with these massive second halfs
(18:18):
that he has me.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
At this point? If you are taking this production with
the grain of salt, I don't blame you a bit.
I put it out on Twitter the other day. I
don't know what Michael Harris does during the All Star break,
whether he takes the Super Soldier serum or what have you.
He powers up, he levels up every All Star break
(18:44):
for instance. For instance, if you look at games at
the team games ninety through one twenty of every season
since Michael Harris has been in the league, that thirty
game stretch, which basically is mid July through mid August
thirty one ops his rookie year eight eighty nine and
twenty three, eight ninety and twenty four over one thousand
(19:08):
so far this year. You look at his by month
splits by month splits throughout his career, he has a
six to sixty two first half OPS and an eight
eighty eight second half OPS. And it goes six eighty
two and April and March, five forty five in May,
seventy seven to seventy six in June, seven eighty one
(19:30):
in July, eight eighty three in August, and then eight
sixty nine in September, And it goes along with what
we're seeing with this Braves team when we talk about
at times it seems like that we've got the streakiest
group of players you can possibly find. It's the truth
(19:50):
because the same exists about Austin Riley, the same exists
about Matt Olson. They struggle in April and May to
start the year. Riley starts getting going in mid June.
Olsen starts getting going in early July, and then Michael
Harris starts getting going in the middle of July, and
that's why we've won seventy percent of our games but
(20:12):
in twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three. So my
point that I'm getting at is is the numbers absolutely
support and back up everything that you're saying, Steven. Now,
with that being said, I'm not going to say that
this is fool's gold. I'm not going to say that
what we're seeing from Michael Harris is just an absolute
(20:33):
anomaly and we're not gonna see it again. I don't
feel he's gonna put one thousand and fifty ops together
over a season, but I do think that he clearly
has all star level upside. He clearly can play to
this level. It's just what are we going to have
to do to see it over a full season. But
to be parid to Michael Harris, I want to ask
(20:55):
the same question to Austin Riley, to Ozzie Alby's and
to Matt Olson. So that's my take. It absolutely is
supported by numbers. We need to see it over a
full season, so take that with caution. But there also
is a history here to where this is really good
and if he could ever put it together in the
first half, you've got an MVP.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Can I think the last week of April, we should
give Michael Harris the week off and tell him that's
the All Star break and this is big. This is
big brain, this is this is now using the big
part of the brain. We're in the last week of April.
We're gonna give him a week off. I'm gonna tellhim
see All Star break. Whatever he normally does in the
(21:34):
All Star break, do it that week and then see
what happens May one. I think that's what I'm trying
next year. I don't know if that's real or not,
but in my head, it's real. And listen, you're right.
There are plenty of other guys on the team that
are streaky, but Michael Harris has taking it to a
whole other level, especially this season. Like this year is
the like he was the worst hitter in baseball for
(21:58):
three and a half months and now he's been one
of the best hitters in baseball for the last basically month.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
His rookie season. His rookie season from the first of
August through mid September in twenty twenty two, he legitimately
was the best outfielder in baseball f wldwise besides Aaron Judge.
So this level of production we've seen before. That's what
makes it so exciting, with the fact that we've seen
it before, so we know he's capable of it. But
(22:26):
on that same n also makes it so frustrating because
it's like, why can't we see this, not even all
the time, but just not what we saw in the
first half when you're capable of what you're doing right now.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yeah, that's the part. It's not that I expect this
guy to show up six months of the year. It's
just I don't understand how you can be one of
the worst players in the sport for three and a
half months and then be one of the best players
in the sport for the last two months, And like, yeah,
I feel like I'm getting Charlie Brown. I do, and
(22:58):
I would love to be wrong. At some point in
this offseason, I'm probably gonna I'm probably gonna try to
kick the football again, and I'm probably gonna say something
like I think Michael Harris could be a under the
radar MVP candidate, but I don't know. I have been
watching lately him crush everything and I'm thinking I'm getting
Charlie Brown.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
But the whole point that I'll end with when it
comes to start talking about Michael Harris Steven is that
it's the understanding that we don't necessarily need for him
to be like this the whole season. It would be
unrealistic for him to be that.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
But just think, like average would be great.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Just think if we can. I'm just using ops because
it's just a simple stat that most people get. Just
if you could get a Michael Harris to a seven
fifty eight hundred ops through every month of the season.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
He'd be a five word. He'd be a five win player.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Get Michael Harris in that range, get ozy Albi's in
the seven hundred to seven fifty range, and get a
shortstop who potentially can hit you around six fifty to
seven hundred oh ps. If you could just get those
three things in place, which don't feel like that big
of an ass, but after the first half of the
season it seems like a massive request. But if you
could get that type of development next year from those positions,
(24:11):
you would absolutely absolutely see a massive improvement. That type
of improvement from those three positions are what gets you
over that five running game hump, which is when we
win at a very high level. That's what I think
the bigger discussion is.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
And I do want to make sure we mentioned that
he has made adjustments to his stance, to his swing
that maybe lend themselves to be more real and therefore
we might be able to recreate these results in April,
May and June of next year. But there's also still
some good like he still doesn't take any walk even
right now, even though he's red hot, he doesn't take
(24:47):
any walks. And man, it's just so hard to be
a consistent offensive player. I think in like five hundred
plate appearances this year, he has thirteen walks, which is crazy.
It's almost like impossible. So you know, he has made
changes that might lend themselves to more consistent results, but
there are still red flags with the approach. I don't know.
I mean, that's why I asked the question. I don't
(25:08):
know what to make on Michael Harris. So we'll see,
you know, but I'm gonna give We're gonna give him
every opportunity off. Of course, he's gonna be here a while,
but it just feels like it feels like deja vous
all over again.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
And I understand also that with what we've experienced over
the past eighteen months, it just feels natural now to
any type of glimpse of hope that we see, or
any type of excellent stretch of play from a player
that we see, We're like, Okay, when is this going
to end? When is the you know, when are we
gonna wake up from this dream?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
What happened?
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Being skeptical just seems second nature now for being a
Brace fan, and I completely get it. But I will
say again, this is something that we've consistently seen. You
take second half, Michael Harris. You've got one of the
best outfielders in the game. If you could put that
over a full season, that becomes a clear All Star,
potential MVP level type of player. The capability is certainly there.
(26:02):
And if he can make the adjustments like he did
from the start of July into the middle of July
and has maintained them over a month, He's capable of
making positive adjustments that can turn him to an immensely
productive player over a long stretch. I've got faith that
he's turned a corner. I'm not saying that means he's
going to become an All Star and MVP candidate. I
(26:23):
just feel the consistency will improve, and if that's the case,
that is one of the biggest boosts that we can
have to once again become a contender next year. But
if you want to talk about boost for right now,
if you want to talk about better days ahead, we've
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Speaker 1 (27:46):
So steven, if you go back about seven or eight
weeks ago the injury to Chris Sale, when it seemed
like that maybe we were turned into quarter, maybe we
were starting to you know, see, you know, our season
turned around. That just started the downward spiral that you know,
we're we're kind of at the bottom of right now.
And then of course you go back about two two
(28:06):
and a half weeks ago. It was another low point
in the season where there was just a massive outcry
when it came to Ronald mc coogey junior. How hurt
was he? Why did the coaching staff put him in
a position? All that different stuff. Well, the good thing
is the good news is that not only are both
Chris Sale and Ronald mccogiy jir both getting close to
being one hundred percent healthy, they're both on the doorstep
(28:27):
of returning. I know that doesn't make a difference in
terms of, you know, us getting close to our goals
for this season, but it is a great development to
see them back on the field for multiple reasons.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (28:39):
So.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Mark Bowman, beat writer for MLB dot Com, tweeted today
that Kunya was on the field, that there was a
chance they would reinstate him either tomorrow or Thursday for
this series, could be next series, but it's basically it's imminent,
is the main takeaway. Even if it's not in the
next two days, he is close enough. Brian Sticker said
(29:04):
that he did not need a rehab start, so he's
not gonna have to go out to Gwinnett or whatever
to get some games in. They're just gonna activate him.
So that tells me that the fact that they're not
doing a rehab start, that it's going to be very soon.
Like I don't know if it's going to be tomorrow
and maybe Thursday, maybe Friday, we'll see, but I think
it's going to be very soon. And then, of course,
Chris Sale actually had a rehab start tonight in Gwinnette, Sean,
(29:28):
I know you. I think you pulled the stats on that.
What did Chris do tonight?
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Forty pitches pitch through two innings, gave up one run,
two strikeouts, overall, just looked healthy. So that kind of
indicates to me that this may be one of multiple
starts that he'll probably get. But yeah, overall, just just
a pretty clean outing with some decent results.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Yeah, so obviously they kept this pitch count pretty low,
so yeah, that probably does indicate they're gonna stack a
few of these, you know, it might be you know,
with Chris, I think Acuna is certainly coming back before Sale.
I think Akunya could come back tomorrow. Sale is probably
gonna be at least another week, maybe two. They probably
even they're probably gonna do two or three rehab starts
quite honestly, he's been out since middle of June, so
(30:13):
he can't just come back to the mound and it
might even be like September for Chris, there's no rush.
I do think it's important, and this is why it
doesn't bother me as much as it bothers other people.
I do think it's important to get Chris Sale on
the mound and pitching and comfortable so that he can
go into the off season like with a normal off season,
and same thing with a Kunya quite honestly, so he
(30:34):
can go to the off season like game ready and
he doesn't have to worry about rehabbing anything. He's just
game ready going into a normal off season. That matters
for pitchers, probably more than hitters. So you know, with Sale,
even if it doesn't matter in the standings, and it's
not gonna matter in the standings, everybody knows the Brave
season has been over for a while now. You could
(30:54):
really trace it back to when Sale got hurt, it
does matter for twenty twenty six because these guys having
normal off seasons is a big part of them having
good twenty twenty sixes, and that's what we're all hoping for.
So the Braves are arguably the braves two best players.
I don't think it's arguable that the Braves two best
players Akunya and Chris Sale. On the doorstep of coming back.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Speaking of you know, some some updates on you know,
approaches for the rest of the season, Brian Snicker talked about,
you know, a six man rotation, you know the fact
that the Braves may continue to implement that. But I
do think it brings up an interesting question because right
now we've got a six man rotation. You've got Spencer Strider,
Carlos Garrasco, Eric Fetti, Hirst and Baldrip, Bryce Elder as
(31:38):
well as Joey Wentz. That is six pitchers. You get
Chris sail back that seven, So that means that there
is going to be an odd man out. Now I
would imagine that that probably would be Bryce Elder. But
with that being said, I had one thing that I
would give Bryce Elder credit for. He could take that
ball every fifth day just about as reliably at least,
step on them out every fifth day just as reliably
(31:58):
as one can. I think he makes sense to potentially
be the one to be the odd man out if
someone were just struggling between them. Maybe that's what you do,
maybe you know get you know, move on from Carasco
or Fittie. What are your thoughts as far as the
comments of the six man rotation and what potentially happens
now that we have seven viable arms to fill that out.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yeah, we were talking about that, I think in our DMS,
or maybe it's just on Twitter. I can't remember. But
like when they brought Hurston Waldrip back up, they didn't
use him as the twenty seventh man. They actually just
brought him to the roster because he was actually an
extra man for the Speedway Classics, so they could do that,
(32:39):
and they'd never sent him back down, and so they
just had six starters. And I actually thought, I tweeted
this out, I thought they might because of the off
day on Monday, they could have just slipped Hurston Waldrip
into Bryce Elder's spot on Thursday. And I thought that's
what they were gonna do, and maybe Elder goes to
the bullpen to be a long guy and maybe goes
(32:59):
to trip play. But no, that's not what they're doing.
They're going with six for a little while. Snicker said
they're gonna go with it as long as they can.
I do think they want to limit the innings of Strider.
I think they want to limit the innings of Waldrop. Yeah,
the guys, I don't think they're that concerned about. But
doing a six monent rotation does do that. It takes
a start away from everybody every every turn, so it's
(33:22):
it's an effective way to limit innings, which I'm guessing
is the logic when Sale comes back. I'm guessing either
Carrasco gets d faded or Elder gets optioned. That's probably
Carrasco gets df faid. Honestly, I mean, he's a thirty
eight year old journeyman, you know, starter, He's he's literally
here just to get the bridge to the finish line.
So if they want a spot for Chris Sale, they
(33:44):
can just dfa Carrasco. But Elder might get optioned to
you know, it is what it is. I I wouldn't
also be surprised if at some point they just shut
Strider or Waldrip down. Waldrip's reaching his kind of most
hittings he's ever thrown. But you do want to push
those limits to help guys, you know, get past them.
(34:04):
So I don't think they're just gonna hard shut him down.
But I think the six month rotation is a way
to limit guys innings and spread out the workload over
what's going to be a pretty meaningless last seven weeks.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Yeah, and especially with Waldrop, even Wentz, who's been a
nice surprise so far this year. You know, you don't
know what you have with those guys, So giving them
some more starts to see if they can build some
momentum as being potential options for the rotation next year,
why not let them, you know, without you know, them
running into or running completely over their innings. Living guys
(34:40):
like Eric Fetti, guys like Bryce Elder, Carlos Corosco either
don't care what you have or you already know what
you have. And so that's that's to me, the reason
why it would make sense for one of those guys
to go. But you know, on that same end, let's
get to September, see what we've gotten Waldrop and Wentz
and go from there. But I agree that point shut
(35:00):
Strider down at some point. I'm sure they'll shut Chris
Sail down as well, but I do think he comes
rit least three to five more starts, and obviously it's
gonna be glad to see Ronald Couldney and Junior there
and well, and with this note, it seems like Austin
Riley could be, you know, knocking on the doorstep here
with it the next week or so as well, Stephen,
anything else from you as we wrape up this edition
of the Hammer Territory Podcast.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
No disappointing night, but I'm still rooting for wins. Like
I know people don't agree with that, that's fine, but
I still want I still want to win games. I
still want to you know, guys to perform well, not
even necessarily because I think, like I don't really believe
in like momentum carrying over from the end of one
season to the beginning of the other. But I just
(35:41):
want to see with the Braves having so many guys
locked up long term, I just want to see good
play because there's a very good chance a lot of
these same players are going to be on the roster
next year, and it's just nice to be reminded of
the talent that is actually there. And again, it's not
really about the standings anymore, but and it's also just
more enjoyable to watch good baseball. So I'm not really
(36:03):
hoping for. There are people out there hoping for like
forty straight losses to get the number two overall pick
or whatever. I understand your logic, but that's.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Just not me.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
I still want to see good baseball.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yeah, tanking is just not as a fan, and we could,
like say, we'll probably discuss this in a later show.
Tankings out an effect is not as effective in baseball
as it is in other sports for a variety of reasons,
but more than anything, when you're a team like the
Braves who's not looking to tank long term, You're not
looking to sit here and be bad right now so
you can get as high as a draft pick and
(36:35):
do the same thing next year. You're wanting to win
and win big as soon as next season, and you're
going to need to rely more on your young guys
due to injuries or disappointments elsewhere that you've experienced this year.
For all the great performances of a Baldwin of Michael
Harris or Hirst and Waldrop that leads us to wins,
that's to be what stands out. Not only are you
wanting to see those guys succeed, but it means something
(36:57):
when they succeed and it leads to wins. That connection,
that overall recognition that hey, if I do this, if
I perform at this level, and it's leading us to
get wins, especially in an environment where we haven't been
getting that many, that should set me up to be
able to be a contributing factor when wins will matter
once again in the future. So that's why I put
a value on us whip.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Yeah, and again, like you said, it's a lottery system,
So how many losses you have does not directly indicate
your draft position. And b the MLB draft, it's not
like Andrew Luck sitting there at you know, the number one.
It just doesn't work that way. You're usually drafting high
school guys or five years away, Like you can have
just as good as drafting at seven as you can
at four. Like, it just doesn't work the same. So yeah,
(37:43):
I'm fine with winning games.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
And I know that everybody's kind of looking at the
fact that next year it is so so top heavy,
there's so many quality potential shortstops at the top of
next year's draft. I feel confident that the braidis are
going to find them, so somewhere in a position to
where they should be in line to you know, have
their pick of multiple guys from that group. Plus the
big thing for me is if we can get that
(38:05):
draft pick from Drake Baldwin winning Murcury here, that's just
even more money to throw at options that can overall
bring up the quality of our pharmasystem for the future.
For Steven Tolbert, you can find him but being under
square outliers on Twitter slash x. My name is Sean Coleman.
You can find me at stats sac in the same
place Hammer Territory across all forms of social media, part
(38:26):
of the Foul Territory family of podcasts. Can thank you
enough for joining us. As always, thank you for the support.
Until next time, go braves. We'll talk to you again
soon here on the Hammer Territory podcast
Welcome on and all to the Here Territory Podcast. My
name is Sean Coleman. Hope, wherever you are and wherever
you are listening, you're having a great start to your week.
Braves back in action tonight after probably the most fun
off day they've had in the while, had a great
weekend against the Marlins. The offense came alive and we
get to Tuesday against the struggle of that Stephen, New
(00:41):
York and large lightdown. But hey, we've seen it enough
this year, so we're used to it now. But as
always my podcast partners with me Steven Tobert Stephen again
some really awesome player over the weekend. The offense was
still there tonight, five runs scored, but the pitching, as
we're going to talk about the pitching just unfortunately was.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Not Yeah what's up buddy? Yeah, I mean it was
a big letdown game obviously a big weekend series. There
is a weird dynamic going on right now with Brais
fans about like do you want the team to win?
You know, there's a lot of Braves fans right now
that don't really want to win these games. They want
to lose these games. They want better draft position. You know,
(01:19):
the whole idea is, if you're gonna have a miserable season,
at least make it miserable enough where you get some
high quality draft capital out of it. And I understand
that I am not there. I still want to win games.
The MLB draft just doesn't work like other drafts. There's
a lottery system in place anyway, So even if you
have the second or first or second best to odds,
(01:40):
it doesn't mean that's where you're gonna pick. So I
still want to win games, quite honestly, And so tonight
was a letdown. And Spencer Strider is obviously the big story.
He's gonna be the main topic tonight because you know,
that doesn't just matter for twenty twenty five. That matters
very much for twenty twenty six and beyond, especially considering
you know, the big rays that he gets starting next year.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Absolutely, and that's the whole you know point where we're
at in the season is that the results. And I'm
right there with you, you know, we we we'll talk
about it, you know, at some point not later down
the line, about you know, the whole idea of tanking
in baseball and do you really want to lose it?
All costs and all that different stuff. That's a subject
for another time. But you know, in these games, yes,
the results matter, especially if the offense is playing well.
(02:25):
They're playing well enough to win, let's win. But tonight
the offense scored five runs. You know, we've talked before
about how often the Braves went when they score five runs,
but you don't usually see Spencer Strider give up eight runs,
and that's where the concern starts. Spencer Strider this year
has been a bit of a it's been a bit
(02:46):
more confusing, I think than a concern because we've always
got the caveat of okay, he's coming back from injury,
so just you know, we we we preached on this podcast,
you know, talking about the fact that it was very
it was more likely than not he wouldn't be his
normal self this year coming off the significant injury that
he had in twenty twenty four. A few starts after
(03:08):
he came back, there was the concern about the velocity.
Then that ticked up close to what it had formerly been.
But as time has gone on, that was about two
two and a half months ago. Is time's gone on, Steven?
You know, the issues that I think are there with
Strider are kind of three things. Number One, yes, the
velocity has increased, but it also is a few miles
per hour lower, especially on the fastball, than where it
(03:30):
used to be. The second thing is is that Spencer
Strider is running into trouble more often than not. In
the past, he would give up some homers, but they
wouldn't really hurt him because he has already had a
big enough lead to work with. Now it's almost as
if forty to fifty percent of the runs that he
gives up is off the homer. And the third reason
(03:51):
that's most concerning his fastball is getting absolutely hammered. You
know that the fastball, it's one of the worst fastballs
out there in terms of exit velocity. It's gone from
having a positive run value in the double digits to
having a negative run value. It's not just about the velocity,
it's about the fact that it's not being effectively placed
as well. So there are layers to this, and when
(04:12):
you get into layers of a concern, that's when the
concern gets a bit more significant.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
In my opinion, Yes, and I want to say this,
I'm going to use a brad Roland word. It is
a nuanced conversation because he is coming back from major
elbow surgery and it is a it is very clearly
unfair to judge him until we get a full off
(04:38):
season of him being able to train to lift weights
to get his strength, and then see what he looks
like next year, because there's a very good chance next year,
the next you know, twenty twenty sixth version of Strider
after a completely healthy offseason looks very different. So that matters.
It is it is it is unfair to start making
(05:01):
conclusions right now because he just hasn't had that time
to build back up like he will once the winner
gets here. With that being said, so we're gonna put
that over here. With that being said, there are some
concerning signs like there just are, and it would be
disingenuous not to mention those. You know, in twenty twenty two,
(05:23):
when he was basically the best pitcher on the planet,
his fastball averaged ninety eight point one miles per hour.
This year it's at ninety five point five. He's lost
almost three miles per hour on his fastball. That is
a massive drop. That's mass. I mean, that's three miles
per hour on your fastball is a huge deal, and
(05:44):
anybody in baseball or anybody who covers baseball who tells
you it's not is lying to you. That's a massive drop.
I mean, I remember watching Mike Foltonevich. Not to bring back,
you know, horrible memories, but like one Sason Fulty came
in throwing like ninety five ninety six instead of his
normal like ninety eight ninety nine, and that guy was
(06:06):
out of baseball shortly after. Now Streider is. I mean,
Fulty was a head case. So this is not quite that,
but it is to illustrate that fastball velocity. There's a
reason why every team in baseball chases it because it's
a huge deal, and Spencer has lost a significant amount
of fastball velocity. But I don't think that's where the
(06:26):
problem begins and ends. I think the main problem for
Spencer is that when you've spent your whole life throwing
that hard ninety eight ninety nine one hundred, you've been
told your whole life just throw it over the plate.
It doesn't matter where, just throw it over the plate
because they can't hit it. Just don't walk people, And
that's what Spencer did for most of his career. I mean,
(06:47):
it didn't matter where he put it over the plate,
it was gonna get a whiff because it was coming
at one hundred miles an hour. Well, you can't approach
your fastball the same way when you throw ninety five
ninety six. You can't throw it down the middle. And
he's never had to have like the PenPoint fastball command
that you kind of have to have when you're throwing
ninety four ninety five ninety six. And so going into
(07:10):
next year, I'm gonna be watching for two things. Does
any more velocity come back after a completely healthy offseason?
That's a massive question. It is like him throwing ninety seven,
ninety eight, ninety nine even is a big deal versus
ninety four, ninety five ninety six, Like every every mile
per hour matters here. So that's the first thing I'm
(07:31):
gonna be looking for. The second thing i'mna looking for
is Spencer's a very competitive, very smart guy. He's gonna
make adjustments to whatever he's got, whatever, hell, whatever he's
got in his arsenal, he's gonna make an adjustment to that.
What are those adjustments? Does he have better fastball command?
Is he more you know, conscientious of where he throws.
His fastball. Spencer has always been like a high fastball
usage guy, like in the sixty percent, Like does that
(07:54):
go down? Does he reinvent himself as a different type
of pitcher if the if the fastball velocity doesn't come back.
You know, there's a lot of questions, but it is
it's only fair to give him a full offseason, a
full winter to train and see what he looks like
next year before we make any you know, radical conclusions.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
But it is concerning.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
I think that's fair if you're a fan out there
and you're concerned, especially now that his you know, he
talked about his salary jumps up to twenty million dollars
a year next year and for the next three years.
That's what the brazowien. And right now, of course, he
doesn't look like a twenty million dollar pitcher. But what
does he look like next spring? That's gonna be a
big question.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
And I think the other thing that stands out about
it is, you know, it certainly matters if he can
get back to what he was because you know, fifteen
months ago, I've said it multiple times and I believe
that this was the case fifteen months ago, before his injury.
You know, before we ran into the offense struggling and
(08:54):
all this different stuff. You go back to the twenty
and twenty three season. I know people don't want to
hear that, but you go back to the twenty twenty
three season when Ronald Coonie Junior was winning MVP and
Spencer Streider was pre injury. I always felt this way.
The Braves clearly were a contender just like anybody else,
but Spencer Strider and ronald'cunyan Junior are what set them apart.
(09:16):
Those are the two biggest reasons, in my opinion, why
the Braves were probably considered the overall favorite as a
contender in twenty two and twenty three, though nothing came
to fruition in the playoffs. We know that Ronald 'cunie
Junior likely will be back to his overall superstar self
if Spencer Strider is not back to that level. I
do have confidence that he if he cannot regain all
(09:40):
of his velocity, I feel that he will retool himself
to be an effective pitcher. But what does effective look like?
To the point that he clearly is what we need
to be the full contender that we want to be again.
That to me is also a question can Spencer Strouder
get back to be in a Superstar. I feel like
they're definit Lee's outcome where he can, but the confidence
(10:03):
level in that being the outcome, I don't blame anybody
if it's dwindled a little bit. We've got questions that
need to be answered. I don't feel as if that's
unfair as a response to what we've seen for Spencer Strotter,
and to your point, Steven, we need to give him
the full grace of the off season to come back
as he needs to be. I think he's going to
put everything into being the picture that he wants was,
(10:26):
But if he naturally cannot be that, we don't know
what that outcome looks like. If he can't be the
Spencer Strider of old, what does the new Spencer Striter
look like. We certainly hope that it's all we're seeing
right now. We think it will be better than that,
but we don't know, and I think that's the main
source of concern.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, and listen, I mean we've said it like when
Spencer there's always this main concern of like is he healthy?
And that's just always going to be there. But now
on top of it, there's this concern that, even if
he is healthy, if he doesn't have his velocity back,
what kind of picture is he going to be? So
it's just kind of a second concern on top of
already the main concern, which is, dear God, I hope
(11:07):
he doesn't get hurt again. So yeah, it's fair, and listen,
this is why it's dangerous to hand out twenty million
dollar plus extensions to pictures. I mean, it just is.
It's a it's a very risky proposition, especially guys who
live off fastball velocity, like if because if these guys
get hurt and the fast ball velocity doesn't come back
(11:29):
or isn't quite the same, you know, what do you
have left? And you know, with Spencer, he might have
to get to a point where he has to reinvent himself.
But again, he's a hyper competitive dude. He's not just
gonna you know, I brought up Fulty before just because
of the fastball drop, but Fulty was was such a
mental case. Strider is is so much more of a sound,
(11:54):
steady dude, Like, yeah, I have much more confidence that
Strider can figure something else out than I would other guys.
So yes, he may have to reinvent himself. But again,
it's only fair that we give him the full off
season before we even get to that point. I think
he's earned that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
To sum it all up, you know, again, there's the
words concern and confidence. I feel very confident that Spencer Strider,
with a fully healthy offseason, is going to return to
being an effective, top of the rotation type pitcher for
the Braves. But is that also in line with be
in the pitcher that he was potentially the best overall
(12:37):
pitching commodity in baseball two years ago. I don't know
if that's going to be the outcome. We have to
wait and see if the velocity comes back. I'm very
confident that he could be that again, but if he doesn't,
I feel confident that he'll find a way to be effective.
But what that looks like, I'm not sure. And that's
where I feel that it's more than fair to be
a bit concerned. But one thing that we are getting
(13:00):
some answers on to one of the biggest concerns in
the first half of the season is the fact that
Michael Harris the second is absolutely going off right now
A bit on exactly why that is and also why
it should not come. Is that much of a surprise.
More on that right after a word from our partners.
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Speaker 1 (14:19):
For Live All right, Steven, So when we talk about
the second half of the season so far, listen, not
as much has changed in terms of wins and losses.
The Braves offense overall has incrementally incrementally gotten better. But
the thing that I'll say is this is that two
storylines stand out above all. Drake Baldwins pursued a Rookie
(14:42):
of the Year. We've talked about as one of the
bigger storylines. But to me, the biggest storyline in terms
of overall disappointment in the first half the season to
outstand in development in the second half has been the
immense improvement of Michael Harris. The second We've seen a
resurgence in his overall approach and in the production. What
do you take away from it?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
So here's my thing with Michael Harris. I feel like
I'm getting Charlie Brown a little bit. Do you understand
that reference? Do you understand what I mean by that? Yeah?
So if you don't know, one of the famous bits
in Charlie Brown was his friend Lucy would hold a
football and she would tell him to kick it and
(15:27):
right as he would go to kick it, she would
move it away and he'd fall on his ass. And
the bit was she would always convince him that she
wasn't going to move the football, that he can kick
it and she wasn't gonna move it, and she'd always
move it. The reason I feel like I'm being Charlie
Browned a little bit is because last year Michael came
(15:48):
back from injury, he was the best player on the team.
I remember he came back in San Francisco at that
Grand Slam. He was, you know, I think he had
like a one thirty WRC plus in the second half
last year. He was the best player in the playoffs
last year far. And I took that performance and I
extrapolated it out over a full season, and I came
on the show and said multiple times you'll remember this
(16:10):
to you, I think Michael Harris is a I think
he's an underrated MVP candidate for the twenty twenty five season.
I said that to you multiple times.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
To make sure we're on the same page. My hot take,
one of my bold predictions was that Michael Harris would
be the starting center fielder for the National League All
Star Team in Atlanta. So me and you were both there.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, and I know that we said that because I
got I've been made fun of on Twitter a thousand
times since now between that, between then and now for
those takes, every week somebody tweets me out I thought
Michael Harris was going to be an MVP candid, And
so now I find myself in a very familiar place
(16:51):
where the second half of the season has arrived and
Michael Harris is looks like one of the best players,
not only on the team in the league. He has
got everything you look for in terms of like if
you're trying to build a foundational like MVP caliber player,
you're looking for power, you're looking for speed, you're looking
(17:13):
for premium defense at a premium defensive spot, and you
can't get more premium than center field, like the These
are the pillars of building like an MVP level player.
And these are all the traits that Michael has. And
you know, we said last offseason, if he could just
make some incremental improvements with the plate discipline stuff, this
(17:33):
guy could win MVP. And I firmly believe that when
I said it almost a year ago now, But now
here we are in twenty twenty five, We're going through
the exact same thing. And so I feel like I'm
being Charlie Browned a little bit. I feel like I
feel like Lucy's holding the football and she's saying, I'm
not gonna pull it away, go ahead and kick it
as hard as you can. And I'm gonna I know
(17:55):
me well enough to know I'm probably gonna try to
kick it. I'm probably gonna fully buy into this Michael
Harris thing in And so I'm gonna ask you, Sean,
is Lucy gonna pull the football? Am I gonna follow
my Am I gonna get made fun of all year
next year because I'm fully bought into this Michael Harris
resurgence or do we need to show a little more
caution with these second half with these massive second halfs
(18:18):
that he has me.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
At this point? If you are taking this production with
the grain of salt, I don't blame you a bit.
I put it out on Twitter the other day. I
don't know what Michael Harris does during the All Star break,
whether he takes the Super Soldier serum or what have you.
He powers up, he levels up every All Star break
(18:44):
for instance. For instance, if you look at games at
the team games ninety through one twenty of every season
since Michael Harris has been in the league, that thirty
game stretch, which basically is mid July through mid August
thirty one ops his rookie year eight eighty nine and
twenty three, eight ninety and twenty four over one thousand
(19:08):
so far this year. You look at his by month
splits by month splits throughout his career, he has a
six to sixty two first half OPS and an eight
eighty eight second half OPS. And it goes six eighty
two and April and March, five forty five in May,
seventy seven to seventy six in June, seven eighty one
(19:30):
in July, eight eighty three in August, and then eight
sixty nine in September, And it goes along with what
we're seeing with this Braves team when we talk about
at times it seems like that we've got the streakiest
group of players you can possibly find. It's the truth
(19:50):
because the same exists about Austin Riley, the same exists
about Matt Olson. They struggle in April and May to
start the year. Riley starts getting going in mid June.
Olsen starts getting going in early July, and then Michael
Harris starts getting going in the middle of July, and
that's why we've won seventy percent of our games but
(20:12):
in twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three. So my
point that I'm getting at is is the numbers absolutely
support and back up everything that you're saying, Steven. Now,
with that being said, I'm not going to say that
this is fool's gold. I'm not going to say that
what we're seeing from Michael Harris is just an absolute
(20:33):
anomaly and we're not gonna see it again. I don't
feel he's gonna put one thousand and fifty ops together
over a season, but I do think that he clearly
has all star level upside. He clearly can play to
this level. It's just what are we going to have
to do to see it over a full season. But
to be parid to Michael Harris, I want to ask
(20:55):
the same question to Austin Riley, to Ozzie Alby's and
to Matt Olson. So that's my take. It absolutely is
supported by numbers. We need to see it over a
full season, so take that with caution. But there also
is a history here to where this is really good
and if he could ever put it together in the
first half, you've got an MVP.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Can I think the last week of April, we should
give Michael Harris the week off and tell him that's
the All Star break and this is big. This is
big brain, this is this is now using the big
part of the brain. We're in the last week of April.
We're gonna give him a week off. I'm gonna tellhim
see All Star break. Whatever he normally does in the
(21:34):
All Star break, do it that week and then see
what happens May one. I think that's what I'm trying
next year. I don't know if that's real or not,
but in my head, it's real. And listen, you're right.
There are plenty of other guys on the team that
are streaky, but Michael Harris has taking it to a
whole other level, especially this season. Like this year is
the like he was the worst hitter in baseball for
(21:58):
three and a half months and now he's been one
of the best hitters in baseball for the last basically month.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
His rookie season. His rookie season from the first of
August through mid September in twenty twenty two, he legitimately
was the best outfielder in baseball f wldwise besides Aaron Judge.
So this level of production we've seen before. That's what
makes it so exciting, with the fact that we've seen
it before, so we know he's capable of it. But
(22:26):
on that same n also makes it so frustrating because
it's like, why can't we see this, not even all
the time, but just not what we saw in the
first half when you're capable of what you're doing right now.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yeah, that's the part. It's not that I expect this
guy to show up six months of the year. It's
just I don't understand how you can be one of
the worst players in the sport for three and a
half months and then be one of the best players
in the sport for the last two months, And like, yeah,
I feel like I'm getting Charlie Brown. I do, and
(22:58):
I would love to be wrong. At some point in
this offseason, I'm probably gonna I'm probably gonna try to
kick the football again, and I'm probably gonna say something
like I think Michael Harris could be a under the
radar MVP candidate, but I don't know. I have been
watching lately him crush everything and I'm thinking I'm getting
Charlie Brown.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
But the whole point that I'll end with when it
comes to start talking about Michael Harris Steven is that
it's the understanding that we don't necessarily need for him
to be like this the whole season. It would be
unrealistic for him to be that.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
But just think, like average would be great.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Just think if we can. I'm just using ops because
it's just a simple stat that most people get. Just
if you could get a Michael Harris to a seven
fifty eight hundred ops through every month of the season.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
He'd be a five word. He'd be a five win player.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Get Michael Harris in that range, get ozy Albi's in
the seven hundred to seven fifty range, and get a
shortstop who potentially can hit you around six fifty to
seven hundred oh ps. If you could just get those
three things in place, which don't feel like that big
of an ass, but after the first half of the
season it seems like a massive request. But if you
could get that type of development next year from those positions,
(24:11):
you would absolutely absolutely see a massive improvement. That type
of improvement from those three positions are what gets you
over that five running game hump, which is when we
win at a very high level. That's what I think
the bigger discussion is.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
And I do want to make sure we mentioned that
he has made adjustments to his stance, to his swing
that maybe lend themselves to be more real and therefore
we might be able to recreate these results in April,
May and June of next year. But there's also still
some good like he still doesn't take any walk even
right now, even though he's red hot, he doesn't take
(24:47):
any walks. And man, it's just so hard to be
a consistent offensive player. I think in like five hundred
plate appearances this year, he has thirteen walks, which is crazy.
It's almost like impossible. So you know, he has made
changes that might lend themselves to more consistent results, but
there are still red flags with the approach. I don't know.
I mean, that's why I asked the question. I don't
(25:08):
know what to make on Michael Harris. So we'll see,
you know, but I'm gonna give We're gonna give him
every opportunity off. Of course, he's gonna be here a while,
but it just feels like it feels like deja vous
all over again.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
And I understand also that with what we've experienced over
the past eighteen months, it just feels natural now to
any type of glimpse of hope that we see, or
any type of excellent stretch of play from a player
that we see, We're like, Okay, when is this going
to end? When is the you know, when are we
gonna wake up from this dream?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
What happened?
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Being skeptical just seems second nature now for being a
Brace fan, and I completely get it. But I will
say again, this is something that we've consistently seen. You
take second half, Michael Harris. You've got one of the
best outfielders in the game. If you could put that
over a full season, that becomes a clear All Star,
potential MVP level type of player. The capability is certainly there.
(26:02):
And if he can make the adjustments like he did
from the start of July into the middle of July
and has maintained them over a month, He's capable of
making positive adjustments that can turn him to an immensely
productive player over a long stretch. I've got faith that
he's turned a corner. I'm not saying that means he's
going to become an All Star and MVP candidate. I
(26:23):
just feel the consistency will improve, and if that's the case,
that is one of the biggest boosts that we can
have to once again become a contender next year. But
if you want to talk about boost for right now,
if you want to talk about better days ahead, we've
got two massive reasons as to why that may be.
We'll discuss that in just a moment after another word
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Speaker 1 (27:46):
So steven, if you go back about seven or eight
weeks ago the injury to Chris Sale, when it seemed
like that maybe we were turned into quarter, maybe we
were starting to you know, see, you know, our season
turned around. That just started the downward spiral that you know,
we're we're kind of at the bottom of right now.
And then of course you go back about two two
(28:06):
and a half weeks ago. It was another low point
in the season where there was just a massive outcry
when it came to Ronald mc coogey junior. How hurt
was he? Why did the coaching staff put him in
a position? All that different stuff. Well, the good thing
is the good news is that not only are both
Chris Sale and Ronald mccogiy jir both getting close to
being one hundred percent healthy, they're both on the doorstep
(28:27):
of returning. I know that doesn't make a difference in
terms of, you know, us getting close to our goals
for this season, but it is a great development to
see them back on the field for multiple reasons.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yep.
Speaker 5 (28:39):
So.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Mark Bowman, beat writer for MLB dot Com, tweeted today
that Kunya was on the field, that there was a
chance they would reinstate him either tomorrow or Thursday for
this series, could be next series, but it's basically it's imminent,
is the main takeaway. Even if it's not in the
next two days, he is close enough. Brian Sticker said
(29:04):
that he did not need a rehab start, so he's
not gonna have to go out to Gwinnett or whatever
to get some games in. They're just gonna activate him.
So that tells me that the fact that they're not
doing a rehab start, that it's going to be very soon.
Like I don't know if it's going to be tomorrow
and maybe Thursday, maybe Friday, we'll see, but I think
it's going to be very soon. And then, of course,
Chris Sale actually had a rehab start tonight in Gwinnette, Sean,
(29:28):
I know you. I think you pulled the stats on that.
What did Chris do tonight?
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Forty pitches pitch through two innings, gave up one run,
two strikeouts, overall, just looked healthy. So that kind of
indicates to me that this may be one of multiple
starts that he'll probably get. But yeah, overall, just just
a pretty clean outing with some decent results.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Yeah, so obviously they kept this pitch count pretty low,
so yeah, that probably does indicate they're gonna stack a
few of these, you know, it might be you know,
with Chris, I think Acuna is certainly coming back before Sale.
I think Akunya could come back tomorrow. Sale is probably
gonna be at least another week, maybe two. They probably
even they're probably gonna do two or three rehab starts
quite honestly, he's been out since middle of June, so
(30:13):
he can't just come back to the mound and it
might even be like September for Chris, there's no rush.
I do think it's important, and this is why it
doesn't bother me as much as it bothers other people.
I do think it's important to get Chris Sale on
the mound and pitching and comfortable so that he can
go into the off season like with a normal off season,
and same thing with a Kunya quite honestly, so he
(30:34):
can go to the off season like game ready and
he doesn't have to worry about rehabbing anything. He's just
game ready going into a normal off season. That matters
for pitchers, probably more than hitters. So you know, with Sale,
even if it doesn't matter in the standings, and it's
not gonna matter in the standings, everybody knows the Brave
season has been over for a while now. You could
(30:54):
really trace it back to when Sale got hurt, it
does matter for twenty twenty six because these guys having
normal off seasons is a big part of them having
good twenty twenty sixes, and that's what we're all hoping for.
So the Braves are arguably the braves two best players.
I don't think it's arguable that the Braves two best
players Akunya and Chris Sale. On the doorstep of coming back.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Speaking of you know, some some updates on you know,
approaches for the rest of the season, Brian Snicker talked about,
you know, a six man rotation, you know the fact
that the Braves may continue to implement that. But I
do think it brings up an interesting question because right
now we've got a six man rotation. You've got Spencer Strider,
Carlos Garrasco, Eric Fetti, Hirst and Baldrip, Bryce Elder as
(31:38):
well as Joey Wentz. That is six pitchers. You get
Chris sail back that seven, So that means that there
is going to be an odd man out. Now I
would imagine that that probably would be Bryce Elder. But
with that being said, I had one thing that I
would give Bryce Elder credit for. He could take that
ball every fifth day just about as reliably at least,
step on them out every fifth day just as reliably
(31:58):
as one can. I think he makes sense to potentially
be the one to be the odd man out if
someone were just struggling between them. Maybe that's what you do,
maybe you know get you know, move on from Carasco
or Fittie. What are your thoughts as far as the
comments of the six man rotation and what potentially happens
now that we have seven viable arms to fill that out.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yeah, we were talking about that, I think in our DMS,
or maybe it's just on Twitter. I can't remember. But
like when they brought Hurston Waldrip back up, they didn't
use him as the twenty seventh man. They actually just
brought him to the roster because he was actually an
extra man for the Speedway Classics, so they could do that,
(32:39):
and they'd never sent him back down, and so they
just had six starters. And I actually thought, I tweeted
this out, I thought they might because of the off
day on Monday, they could have just slipped Hurston Waldrip
into Bryce Elder's spot on Thursday. And I thought that's
what they were gonna do, and maybe Elder goes to
the bullpen to be a long guy and maybe goes
(32:59):
to trip play. But no, that's not what they're doing.
They're going with six for a little while. Snicker said
they're gonna go with it as long as they can.
I do think they want to limit the innings of Strider.
I think they want to limit the innings of Waldrop. Yeah,
the guys, I don't think they're that concerned about. But
doing a six monent rotation does do that. It takes
a start away from everybody every every turn, so it's
(33:22):
it's an effective way to limit innings, which I'm guessing
is the logic when Sale comes back. I'm guessing either
Carrasco gets d faded or Elder gets optioned. That's probably
Carrasco gets df faid. Honestly, I mean, he's a thirty
eight year old journeyman, you know, starter, He's he's literally
here just to get the bridge to the finish line.
So if they want a spot for Chris Sale, they
(33:44):
can just dfa Carrasco. But Elder might get optioned to
you know, it is what it is. I I wouldn't
also be surprised if at some point they just shut
Strider or Waldrip down. Waldrip's reaching his kind of most
hittings he's ever thrown. But you do want to push
those limits to help guys, you know, get past them.
(34:04):
So I don't think they're just gonna hard shut him down.
But I think the six month rotation is a way
to limit guys innings and spread out the workload over
what's going to be a pretty meaningless last seven weeks.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Yeah, and especially with Waldrop, even Wentz, who's been a
nice surprise so far this year. You know, you don't
know what you have with those guys, So giving them
some more starts to see if they can build some
momentum as being potential options for the rotation next year,
why not let them, you know, without you know, them
running into or running completely over their innings. Living guys
(34:40):
like Eric Fetti, guys like Bryce Elder, Carlos Corosco either
don't care what you have or you already know what
you have. And so that's that's to me, the reason
why it would make sense for one of those guys
to go. But you know, on that same end, let's
get to September, see what we've gotten Waldrop and Wentz
and go from there. But I agree that point shut
(35:00):
Strider down at some point. I'm sure they'll shut Chris
Sail down as well, but I do think he comes
rit least three to five more starts, and obviously it's
gonna be glad to see Ronald Couldney and Junior there
and well, and with this note, it seems like Austin
Riley could be, you know, knocking on the doorstep here
with it the next week or so as well, Stephen,
anything else from you as we wrape up this edition
of the Hammer Territory Podcast.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
No disappointing night, but I'm still rooting for wins. Like
I know people don't agree with that, that's fine, but
I still want I still want to win games. I
still want to you know, guys to perform well, not
even necessarily because I think, like I don't really believe
in like momentum carrying over from the end of one
season to the beginning of the other. But I just
(35:41):
want to see with the Braves having so many guys
locked up long term, I just want to see good
play because there's a very good chance a lot of
these same players are going to be on the roster
next year, and it's just nice to be reminded of
the talent that is actually there. And again, it's not
really about the standings anymore, but and it's also just
more enjoyable to watch good baseball. So I'm not really
(36:03):
hoping for. There are people out there hoping for like
forty straight losses to get the number two overall pick
or whatever. I understand your logic, but that's.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Just not me.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
I still want to see good baseball.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yeah, tanking is just not as a fan, and we could,
like say, we'll probably discuss this in a later show.
Tankings out an effect is not as effective in baseball
as it is in other sports for a variety of reasons,
but more than anything, when you're a team like the
Braves who's not looking to tank long term, You're not
looking to sit here and be bad right now so
you can get as high as a draft pick and
(36:35):
do the same thing next year. You're wanting to win
and win big as soon as next season, and you're
going to need to rely more on your young guys
due to injuries or disappointments elsewhere that you've experienced this year.
For all the great performances of a Baldwin of Michael
Harris or Hirst and Waldrop that leads us to wins,
that's to be what stands out. Not only are you
wanting to see those guys succeed, but it means something
(36:57):
when they succeed and it leads to wins. That connection,
that overall recognition that hey, if I do this, if
I perform at this level, and it's leading us to
get wins, especially in an environment where we haven't been
getting that many, that should set me up to be
able to be a contributing factor when wins will matter
once again in the future. So that's why I put
a value on us whip.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Yeah, and again, like you said, it's a lottery system,
So how many losses you have does not directly indicate
your draft position. And b the MLB draft, it's not
like Andrew Luck sitting there at you know, the number one.
It just doesn't work that way. You're usually drafting high
school guys or five years away, Like you can have
just as good as drafting at seven as you can
at four. Like, it just doesn't work the same. So yeah,
(37:43):
I'm fine with winning games.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
And I know that everybody's kind of looking at the
fact that next year it is so so top heavy,
there's so many quality potential shortstops at the top of
next year's draft. I feel confident that the braidis are
going to find them, so somewhere in a position to
where they should be in line to you know, have
their pick of multiple guys from that group. Plus the
big thing for me is if we can get that
(38:05):
draft pick from Drake Baldwin winning Murcury here, that's just
even more money to throw at options that can overall
bring up the quality of our pharmasystem for the future.
For Steven Tolbert, you can find him but being under
square outliers on Twitter slash x. My name is Sean Coleman.
You can find me at stats sac in the same
place Hammer Territory across all forms of social media, part
(38:26):
of the Foul Territory family of podcasts. Can thank you
enough for joining us. As always, thank you for the support.
Until next time, go braves. We'll talk to you again
soon here on the Hammer Territory podcast
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