August 20, 2025 • 32 mins
Sandy is back home, but her home is now a crime scene besieged by journalists. Friends rally around her, Lizz flies in to be with her and the police continue to suspect her.
Host: Maggie Robinson Katz
Producer: Maggie Latham
Script consultant: Emma Weatherill
Sound designer: Tom Brignell
Production support from Dan Marchini, Elaina Boateng and Mabel Finnegan-Wright.
Managing Executive Producer (iHeart): Cristina Everett
Executive Producer (BBC Studios): Joe Kent
Hands Tied is a BBC Studios production for iHeartPodcasts
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
BBC SuDS. Hey, h'm Maggie. Just a quick heads up
before we start. The series does contain some descriptions of
violence and deals with adult themes.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
His ar murder has a Northwest Harance County neighborhood on edge.
A couple celebrating a wedding anniversary found tied up in
Sanford closets. The husband had been stabbed to death tonight.
Investigators have plenty of questions about this that happened, as
we see on this.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
So we get the news on and I see the
newscasts of Jim.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
When Tammy Armstrong switches on the evening news, she cannot
believe what she's seeing.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
And as that's their house, that's their house, and I
was scared to death.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Her best friend, Sandy Melgar's place is wrapped in police
tape and swarming with cops.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
And that's where Local two is. Andy Sirote is his
lab with the latest on this story, Handy Bill.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Residents in this quiet community still baffled over a bizarre
mystery involving two of their neighbors like this.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Then I just start screaming hysterically and crying, and Tom's
turning it up louder and they said that he had
been murdered in that house.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Tammy and her husband Tom had been entertaining friends that evening.
After they'd seen the last of their guests out. They
were ready to collapse on the sofa, but then their
son in law called, urging them to switch on the TV.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Then I just start screaming, where's Sandy. They're not saying
a thing about Sandy. Where's Sandy? What happened to her?
What did they do to her?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Tammy rings sandy cell, no reply. She rings the house again. Nothing.
She tries over and over. Next she rings around the
hospitals in Houston, and.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
I called all of them. Then Tom called the policeations
in the police station said, no, she's not here. Of
course she wants there.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
What Tom and Tammy don't know is that Sandy's phone
has been taken into evidence. Well, she's questioned by the police.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
And so then we could do nothing. But I said,
we'll stay dressed, We'll stay on top of the covers
and just lay here and wait, saying prayers and crying
and waiting to hear from my friend. Tom's phone rang
about I think four in the morning or something.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
They're both still awake, lying fully dressed on the bed.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
He picks it up first ring and he goes, yes,
it's a minute, and he hands it to me and
Sandy's voice is so faint. She was Tammy. I said yeah.
She goes, do you know, and I said yes, I know, sweetie,
I know. I said where are you? And she goes,
they brought me back here. I said they who? And
(03:00):
I said you're at your house? And she is yes.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
The police dropped Sandy back at home at three forty
five am on Christmas Eve.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
And I said we'll be right there. She says okay,
and she clicked off and I told him, I said,
I can't believe they took her back. She's at the house.
And so we jump in the car and we drive
over there and get there.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
When Tammy and her husband arrive at the Melgar's house,
they have to push their way through the massive reporters
and cameras gathered outside.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Friends and relatives say fifty two year old Haimimelgar had
no enemies, and tonight they are rallying around his broken
hearted widow.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
We're just trying to christ you know. Reporters in front,
and we go under the yellow tape and go in
and Sandy's sitting on her sofa and she's holding her dog, Lola,
the Pomeranian, and she's so so so pale, and her
skin is so blanched and she can barely talk. And
I said, Sandy, have you had your medicine? I said,
(04:08):
you're going to have a seizure. I said, and you're dry,
you're dehydrated, running get a bottle of water on the fridge,
A hander water. So where's your medicine, honey, she says,
And she can tell me. So I started to go
to her bedroom. Don't go in there, and I said,
I won't look.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Jim's body was found in a closet connected to that bedroom.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
He was gone, but the blood I didn't see it.
I wouldn't look, but Tom said it was. It was horrendous.
All they had done was removed Jim. Lola had blood
on her and fingerprinting stuff and all that was all
over Lola. She's pure white. And her puppies were crying
and barking in the yard and Sandy was just sitting
(04:52):
on the couch with hardly anything on, freezing, just sitting there, shaking.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Tammy searches for draw for Fenno barbadal. That's Sandy's prescription
anti seizure medication. She can't find any.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
And I said, well, whoever did this obviously knew that
phenom barbital is the drug take And I said, because
that's gone. She goes, oh, I had my full prescription.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Tammy locates some tablets tucked away and gives one to Sandy.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
And I just grabbed a couple of things for her
put on and wrapped her in a blanket and we
got the dogs and got her out of there.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Tammy and Tom decide to take Sandy back to their house,
hoping it will be a refuge from the crime scene
and from the pack of reporters we're.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
Just trying to get as a statement. Sandra Melgar saw
comfort today and the arms of a friend in the
wake of her husband's bizarre murder.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
She was and the lights. They started taking pictures and
she just started shaking and shaking it. And I wrapped
her tightly and threw the blanket even more of her head,
and we get her into the car and you know,
put it in the back, slam the door, and they're
asking for a statement. Thirty two years with the anniversary,
there's Aunt that's Tammy.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
She's sitting in the front seat of the car, shielding
her eyes from the glare of the cameras, her face
twisted in anguish, all for viewers at home to see
as journalists cramble around trying to question her and Sandy murder.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
She was unable to speak from the backseat of this
car where we saw her wrapped in a blanket laying
down Stewart.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
And we left and they said, where are you taking it?
Where are you taking her?
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Back at her house, Tammy put Sandy in a hot
shower to warm up. She's freezing cold, and.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
She kept saying, I still smell it, I still smell it.
And I said, what are you smelling the here? She
has the blood, so much blood, Tammy, so much blood.
But when I was washing her hair for her, there
was a bump, a big noot on her head as
a Sandy, we need to go to er, and I said,
I don't know what they did to you, and she
said I can't, I can't, and she was crying, and
(07:06):
don't take me to another cold, hard place.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
So they try to get some rest instead, and.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
I got her under the electric blanket and she slept
with me and Tom slipped in the guest room and
she stayed awake all night. She was crying, saying, how
could they do this to him? How could they do this?
And then she said, what am I going to do
without him? He's everything? And I said, I know. Then
(07:33):
at one point, all of a sudden, she goes tell
me they think I did this. And I thought she
was just babbling, you know, shock. I said, that's ridiculous,
you were tied up. I said, no one would ever
think that you did this. That's the most ridiculous thing
I've ever heard. And I said, who thinks you did this?
(07:55):
And she goes the police.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
I'm Maggie Robinson Katz and from BBC's Studios and iHeart podcasts.
This is Hands Tied, episode three, Homecoming.
Speaker 5 (08:23):
I could have left a guy here this Christmas Day.
It was the twenty fifth when we landed.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
By the time Liz and her husband land in Texas,
her mom, Sandy, is already at Tammy's house and has
already been quizzed by the police about her dad Jim's murder.
Speaker 5 (08:39):
I think I was completely in shock the whole time.
I mean I broke down on the plane a few times,
and when I was picked up from the airport. I
think that's when it hit me, but not entirely, because
I feel like I was in shock for years.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
A cousin picks them up at George Bush International Airport,
and a wave of emotion and relief hits Liz because
sitting in the backseat of the car is Sandy. After
hours of frantic worrying about her mom, at least here
she is. She's not in a good way, though.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
Yeah, my mom just like falls apart and she's got
bruises all down her arms, and asking her what happened,
and I mean she was just bawling, she was just crying.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
They get back to Tammy's house, which has become the
gathering place for all of Sandy's relatives and friends.
Speaker 5 (09:33):
So I didn't flat out say what happened because I
didn't want to make her talk about this right if
she wasn't ready.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Slowly, Sandy tells Liz what she remembers about the events
leading up to Jim's death.
Speaker 5 (09:48):
At that moment, I remember thinking, you're sitting in this
bathtub right with the person that you think you're spending
the rest of your life with. You're talking about what
you're about to do now that he's retired, your plans,
all this stuff, and then he gets up to go
let the dogs in, and the next thing you wake
up and your whole life has been turned upside down.
(10:09):
And I just remember that thought going through my head
over and over again.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Sandy tails Liz about the police interview.
Speaker 5 (10:18):
Didn't they take you to the hospital. No, you know,
she thought she'd had a seizure, she had a bump
on her head. She said that they had interrogated her,
that they wanted her to do a light detector test.
She said, no, I'm too stressed and frazzled right now.
I will not pass a light detector test. It all
felt very wrong.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Liza's head is spinning. It's a lot to process. Her
dad is dead, and it seems like her mom is
a suspect.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
It's a lot.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
It's more than most people can handle, too much for
one person.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
She's drained, exhausted, jet lagged, barely recovered from the miscarriage
she's just had. But now that seems like an eternity ago,
and these most desperate of circumstances, she turns to the
person who she could always rely on to keep a
cool head in a crisis her dad.
Speaker 5 (11:17):
My dad was always telling me how important it is
not to get too emotional about things, and to step
back and separate yourself and try and look at things
from this perspective that isn't emotional or biased.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Like Jim.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Liz isn't a panicer, so she channels his calm, logical brain.
And there's her other superpower. Those true crime books she
obsessed over as a teenager, which led her to study
neuroscience in England, knowledge which she has stored up and
can now put to use.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
It was definitely already cynical about the police. I already
was very distressing of them. And you're taught to believe
that they're going to help you, right there there to
help you and they want to make sure you get
justice or whatever bullshit that they tell you.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
But I have.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
Seen how they've treated other people. And then you know,
reading these like true crime accounts where sometimes the police
have released victims back into their killers custody, or you know,
usually they don't listen when it's somebody who is not white,
(12:28):
or you know, who's not in authority. I don't know,
there's just different circumstances, right, So I was very familiar
with these types of interactions, and we started from there.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Liz swings into action. First, she wants to find out
how her dad died, so she tracks down a number
for the medical examiner.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
I remember calling the NY's office and trying to get
some information. So I called the detective and they asked
if they could come see me at Tom and Tammy's house.
I said, okay.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
It's the day after Christmas, twenty twelve, and two detectives
are outside Tom and Tammy's house in Houston.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
They knock at our door. Sandy's in the back, and
she immediately starts trembling and shaking.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
It's the same two detectives who interviewed Sandy, Deputy Carousel
and Sergeant to say.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
So, I stayed back there with her, and I'm like,
you don't have to go out. They'll be seeing to
the front room. You don't have to see them.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
But it's okay because they're not here to see Sandy,
they're here to talk to Liz. Liz records the interview
using a tablet she'd given her husband Anthony for Christmas.
This was twenty twelve. Applets were high tech and more
than a decade later, Liz and I are in my
hotel room in Wimbledon, London, listening back to that recording Semumer.
Speaker 6 (14:10):
Twenty six, twenty twelve, case number one two one seventy
six two six' Nine Sean kerzelhairrishetty homicide Sixty henry forty
two also with me as my, Partner sergeant do, say
And i'm gonna let the other two witnesses here identify.
Themselves manage and identify, Yourself Elizabeth melgarth, okay and this
is your? Husband, yeah your Name Anthony.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Rose did they know that you were? Recording?
Speaker 5 (14:35):
YEAH i told THEM i was going to.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Record IF i was in your shoes in that, POSITION
i don't THINK i would have the foresight to do.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
THAT i really don't know what made me do. IT
i guess just like mistrust and making sure THAT i
remembered what we had said and what we had talked,
about BECAUSE i felt LIKE i was in such shock
that you know, what IF i forgot EVERYTHING i had
said AND i forgot something.
Speaker 6 (14:57):
Important have you talked about been to your? Mother what
did your mother have to?
Speaker 5 (15:03):
Say she's just in complete. Shock she has a hard
time remembering things as.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
It is because of the.
Speaker 5 (15:10):
Seizures she's got a well documented history of lucas and
epilepsy for the past twenty something. Years and she basically
just told me that the, Police, well she woke up
and she was trying to sit up and.
Speaker 7 (15:22):
Get out of the, closet but she has had.
Speaker 5 (15:24):
Hip replacements and she has a lot of joint, problems
so she really couldn't, move and she didn't know how
long she had been, There SO i mean.
Speaker 7 (15:33):
She said that the police took her.
Speaker 5 (15:34):
In, well they told my family that they were taking
to the, hospital AND i spent hours calling hospitals trying
to find, her and it turned out that they didn't
take her. There it wouldn't give her, medication and she
was there for twelve.
Speaker 7 (15:46):
Hours and stress brings on, seizures and so does lack of,
sleep SO i was a bit worried about her. Health
she's quite in a quite gradual state right.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Now you sound so clear and so concise and so.
PRESENT i think it's probably.
Speaker 5 (16:06):
Just like angry THAT i had to deal with these
idiots and angry at the way they had treated.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Her time has not Softened liz's feelings towards the. Police
you do.
Speaker 6 (16:18):
Know that we had a messenal that check her out, medication,
Right but the doctor and them that saw her there
at the, scene they had cleared everything before we even
spoke to.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Her how can you, SO i see you shaking your. Head,
yeah because he's saying there was a doctor on.
Speaker 5 (16:35):
Scene there was no doctor on. Sine there were some
mts On.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Zene Emergency medical technicians.
Speaker 5 (16:42):
EMTs aren't, trained you, know to deal with this sort of.
Situation they're not going to have her medication for. Her
they should have taken her to the.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Hospital liz thinks That sandy was in no fit state
to decide for herself if she needed to go to the,
hospital she should have been taken.
Speaker 5 (17:01):
Anyway she doesn't know what's going, on she's not thinking.
Clearly she should have never been in that room answering
questions in that state and without a.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Lawyer, yeah it.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
Was just it was very frustrating because they were just
lying to my face LIKE i was this idiot who
had no, idea and that LIKE i was just going
to buy, it and it was so. Insulting it was
so insulting and just went like adding insult to.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Injury and you understand.
Speaker 6 (17:27):
That we're not pointing fingers at anybody, here but we're
trying to we're trying to get as much informational we
can't because it's either. Way we have either we're looking
at a possible suspect entered her, home and we're trying
to look at every angle.
Speaker 7 (17:41):
HERE i just don't appreciate the way my mother was
treated like.
Speaker 5 (17:45):
That she, WAS i, mean she said that the police
were basically we're just, saying you, know you did?
Speaker 3 (17:50):
It was he?
Speaker 7 (17:51):
Abusive was he having an? Affair was this? Happening was that?
Speaker 6 (17:54):
Happening, no here's the.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
DEAL i look At liz and pause the. RECORDING i, mean.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
He's denying, everything and then you get to the interrogation
footage and Everything i've said is.
Speaker 6 (18:05):
True the questions are, asked, okay but you have to,
remember and it's how somebody perceives the. Question we have
to know if somebody was out to hurt your. Father,
okay the way you take that question is the way
however you're going to take. It but that's our. Job
we have to figure out kill.
Speaker 5 (18:26):
HIM i think she probably had a seizure and that
probably freaked out whoever was, there and maybe they thought
they killed her by hitting her on the.
Speaker 6 (18:33):
HEAD i don't, know, WELL i mean that could. Be
that could be the, case and that's WHY i need to.
Know like with her condition And i'm not saying that
she could black out and all that. Stuff it could,
happen BUT i need to know if she's ever going
to remember, it because if she could ever remember a,
suspect that's the best thing for me and him because
then we have a description and everything. Else right, now
(18:54):
at this, point we have.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Nothing i've been asking, Trying.
Speaker 6 (18:57):
We're trying to solve the, case And i'm trying to
look for answers just that anything that can help us
out because that now we don't, know we know, nothing
and everybody is a.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Suspect at a, point the police Till.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Liz they're keeping an open mind and that they need her.
Help they ask if she'll be going back to her parents',
house do me.
Speaker 6 (19:19):
A favor when you're, there get a tablet out anything
you think is, missing because we need to start searching
for the eydos that are. Missing somebody came in and stole.
It if somebody come in and going to steal, stuff
if you have OLD tv the manuals to them that
has a serial, number or anything like that to it
bring it all to, us because we can start searching
(19:40):
for those items if they've been, pawned they've been sold.
Speaker 7 (19:43):
So meticulous he has all. That i'm sure he has
all those things in his house.
Speaker 6 (19:47):
Somewhere see and how your mother and father a? Relationship
how has it been in this past?
Speaker 5 (19:55):
Great, okay they were just celebrating their thirty second money. Anniversary,
alrighty it's twelve.
Speaker 6 (20:03):
Thirty he's gonna be the end of.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
The interview lasts thirteen. Minutes any sort of final thoughts
after replaying that whole.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
THING i was probably like too nice and like accommodating
and just letting them get away with the bullshit that
they were trying to feed. Me hindsight's always twenty. Twenty
BUT i didn't know WHAT i know.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Now everyone kind of thinks they know how they'll react
in a high pressure. Situation we think we'll do the honorable,
thing or we'll keep our composure in some way or
(20:53):
something like. That but when we're faced with the reality
of it, ALL i think we'd surprise, ourselves and not
always in the best. Way i've mentioned before THAT i
can kind of understand What lissa's experiencing BECAUSE i also
took on an investigation around my own dad's. Mystery growing.
(21:15):
Up my dad was a. Businessman in, FACT i learned
the word entrepreneur very early. On he always wanted to
be a, musician but pivoted that desire towards, radio owning
several stations and even pioneering the first radio network to
provide twenty four hour music programming via. Satellite so a
(21:36):
pretty amazing, career. Right my dad was filled with stories
from the time he turned down hanging out With paul,
McCartney which was a major, regret to producing a radio
program With John. Candy and to answer the question that
may have popped into your, head, YES i did grow up.
Rich but in twenty, eleven out of seemingly, nowhere my
(22:00):
dad was diagnosed with colon cancer and died just a
few weeks, later revealing a secret he'd been keeping for.
Years he was, broke the two thousand and eight real
estate crash wiping him, out but there could possibly be
something to pull him out of this financial. Hole for
(22:21):
over a, decade my dad would talk to this guy
in The philippines about gold hidden in the. Jungle this
guy told my dad he represented the Former filipino Dictator
Ferdinand marcos and was the executor of his. Will he
had access to treasure hidden in the jungle worth trillions of,
dollars and with just a modest investment to help get
(22:43):
said gold out of said, jungle my dad would be
wealthy beyond his wildest. Dreams my dad and the, sky
almost eight thousand miles, away would have nearly nightly phone.
Calls my dad would take notes using pen and, paper
keeping track of important, details numbers and, people but later
(23:05):
he transitioned to taping them. TAPES i got access to
a couple of years after his. Death thank you for
calling the event street in, health.
Speaker 8 (23:17):
Yes Mister, stuckey or in two or three.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Place there's hundreds of, them all following the same. Pattern
my dad, dials says the day and time on the,
recording and the phone. Rings this guy in The philippines picks,
up and.
Speaker 6 (23:35):
So what?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Happened, well and give some updates that really don't make any.
Sense generals decided.
Speaker 8 (23:42):
They didn't want to take it up Until monday. Morning
general got afraid to do, it and just too many
people get.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Killed for a. While from that over, here as the years,
PROGRESS i hear the timbre of my dad's voice start
to shift. Morning what started as maybe a fun hobby
for rich guy became his last saving grace after losing
all of his money in the market crash of two
thousand and. Eight if these deals can come, through then
(24:11):
my dad would be back on.
Speaker 8 (24:13):
Top don't don't get angry with. Me it's for it's four.
O'clock it's with. You i'm up with the. World, well
but what it's done to me has been. Devastating you,
KNOW i didn't ask for. THIS i didn't ask for you.
Speaker 9 (24:30):
KNOW i was told that this is all that pipe
cinch and what it's doing is just slowly killing. Me
and and you, KNOW i feel bad for, you but this.
Speaker 6 (24:42):
Is just.
Speaker 8 (24:44):
It's it's been all these.
Speaker 9 (24:46):
YEARS i just this is gonna.
Speaker 8 (24:47):
Happen it's gonna.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Happen though.
Speaker 5 (24:51):
Happen it's going.
Speaker 8 (24:52):
WELL i hope so bad what he's.
Speaker 10 (24:54):
Doing over here.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Now he never got the money and died thinking his
family would never forgive him for losing. Everything this didn't
sit well with, me SO i decided to go on
my own, quest fly to The philippines and meet this
man on the other end of the. Line SOMETHING i
found myself Telling liz about years later in a hotel
room In wimbledon In. LONDON i, mean LIKE i, remember you,
(25:20):
know like the PODCAST i did about my, DAD i
like confronted my dad's con, artist and like this fancy
hotel In, manila AND i had like a bodyguard because
they told me that he was probably gonna kill me
or like try to kill. Me and there was a
part WHERE i was kind of able to like disassociate
(25:41):
and just like kind of be. There but WHEN i
listened to, it or like WHEN i listened to my
interview with, HIM i thought the same thing about, myself
WHERE i THOUGHT i was way too, nice way too,
accommodating like really, friendly but ALSO i kind of like
thought he was going to kill. Me it's hard to
(26:02):
be the one to take the call to try and
solve the mysteries that plague your. Family and WHILE i
don't understand exactly What liz went, through there are. Similarities
we are both daughters searching for, answers and WHILE i
didn't get, Mine liz hopes that she can find.
Speaker 10 (26:21):
Hers back in twenty, twelve on the day After, Christmas
liz does exactly what.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
The police have asked her to, do but it's a tall.
Speaker 5 (26:41):
Order SO i went back to the, house which was very,
eerie and there's still a smell THAT i can't describe.
IT i think it's a mixture of the fingerprint dust
and the.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Illuminol so luminol this is a chemical use to detect
traces of blood that crime scenes that aren't visible to
the naked. Eye it glows blue in the, dark which
indicates traces of blood that could have been left behind
even after someone tries to clean it. Up the crime
scene unit used it in The melgar's bathroom.
Speaker 5 (27:15):
And then these like big black trash. BAGS i don't
know if it's like that smell all mixed, together or
if it's the chemical. SMELL i don't know what it.
Is SOMETIMES i still smell it and it takes me back.
There but this house just had this smell that wasn't the.
Smell my house had all of the furniture that had
been in my mom and dad's room was in the
living room because they had to pull up the carpet
(27:38):
and paint the floor because of all the blood and
repaint the walls and. Everything there was just black fingerprint dust,
everywhere and it was just so.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Quiet she sees the house in, disarray the drawers left,
open looking to her like they've rifled. Through did it
normally look like?
Speaker 3 (28:03):
That?
Speaker 5 (28:03):
NO i used to drive my mom crazy if anyone,
left you, know cabinet's open or drawers, open and he
drives me. Crazy but, no we never left it like.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
That it's hard For liz to tell what's missing and
what the police have. Seized the professional cleaners hired to
clean up crime scenes have already come through and everything's
been moved. About she thinks the SMALL tv which was
in her parents', bedroom, jewelry and her mom's anti seizure
(28:35):
medication are all. Gone then she goes into the, Garage
jim's man, cave his happy.
Speaker 5 (28:43):
PLACE i used to love to sit out in the
garage with him and watch him. Work Like i'd always
asked him to teach me how to do, things and
he was, like you're going to cut your hand. Off
there's no Way i'm going to teach you right. Now
but you can sit and. Watch you can help in other.
Ways SO i was like familiar with his. Workspace you,
know he loved his, tools he loved, building and he
(29:06):
loved you, know making things with his, hands working on,
cars doing these types of.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Things it was crammed with expensive looking power tools and,
machinery shelves and shelves of paint filler, sprays you, KNOW diy.
Speaker 5 (29:19):
Stuff all the toolboxes had been, opened rummaged, through just
like have, hazardly just left disorganized and jumbled. Together and
that's not how my dad was very organized with his.
Tools he was just somebody who had a routine and
a set way of doing things and he just didn't
deviate from. It and so to see the way that
(29:44):
the garage had been left was not my dad at.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
All Then liz spot something, else something totally out of,
place her old green and black backpack from middle school long,
forgot and a closet in the, house sitting on the
concrete garage.
Speaker 5 (30:04):
Floor AND i thought that was, strange and SO i
kind of stood over it AND i looked into, it
AND i could see that there was an xbox in.
There BUT i didn't want to touch any of.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
It liz knows from reading all of those true crime
books that touching it could contaminate vital.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
Evidence and SO i called the police AND i said
he should come and look at.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
This the detectives returned to the house and photograph the
backpack and the other things, that according To, liz don't add,
up but only the backpack and its contents are seats
and taken to The Harris County Forensics lab for. Testing
inside there's An, Xbox xbox, controllers An xbox, game and
(30:49):
more than twenty pieces of, jewelry including, earrings, rings and.
Necklaces valuables taken from the house highly pawnable items had
they been stashed in the garage by burglars who had
to flee the scene in a hurry when things got
out of. Hand could these hold the clues to who
Killed liz's Dad Jim. Melgar you've been listening To Hands,
(31:20):
tied a new eight part true crime series FROM Bbc
studios And iHeart. Podcasts new episodes will be released, weekly
so subscribe or follow on The iHeartRadio app or wherever
you get your podcasts so you don't miss. Out if
you like the, show please help us by spreading the
word or giving us a five star. Review I'm Maggie
(31:43):
Robinson katz and the producer Is Maggie. Latham sound design
and mix is By Tom. Brignell our script consultant Is
Emma weatherall production support is From Dan, Martini Elena boutang
And Mabel Finnegan, wright and our Product Action executive Is
Laura Jordan. Raul the series was developed By Anya saunders
(32:06):
And Emma shaw At, iHeart The Managing executive producer Is Christina,
everett and FOR Bbc, studios the executive producer Is Joe
kent
BBC SuDS. Hey, h'm Maggie. Just a quick heads up
before we start. The series does contain some descriptions of
violence and deals with adult themes.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
His ar murder has a Northwest Harance County neighborhood on edge.
A couple celebrating a wedding anniversary found tied up in
Sanford closets. The husband had been stabbed to death tonight.
Investigators have plenty of questions about this that happened, as
we see on this.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
So we get the news on and I see the
newscasts of Jim.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
When Tammy Armstrong switches on the evening news, she cannot
believe what she's seeing.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
And as that's their house, that's their house, and I
was scared to death.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Her best friend, Sandy Melgar's place is wrapped in police
tape and swarming with cops.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
And that's where Local two is. Andy Sirote is his
lab with the latest on this story, Handy Bill.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Residents in this quiet community still baffled over a bizarre
mystery involving two of their neighbors like this.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Then I just start screaming hysterically and crying, and Tom's
turning it up louder and they said that he had
been murdered in that house.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Tammy and her husband Tom had been entertaining friends that evening.
After they'd seen the last of their guests out. They
were ready to collapse on the sofa, but then their
son in law called, urging them to switch on the TV.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Then I just start screaming, where's Sandy. They're not saying
a thing about Sandy. Where's Sandy? What happened to her?
What did they do to her?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Tammy rings sandy cell, no reply. She rings the house again. Nothing.
She tries over and over. Next she rings around the
hospitals in Houston, and.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
I called all of them. Then Tom called the policeations
in the police station said, no, she's not here. Of
course she wants there.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
What Tom and Tammy don't know is that Sandy's phone
has been taken into evidence. Well, she's questioned by the police.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
And so then we could do nothing. But I said,
we'll stay dressed, We'll stay on top of the covers
and just lay here and wait, saying prayers and crying
and waiting to hear from my friend. Tom's phone rang
about I think four in the morning or something.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
They're both still awake, lying fully dressed on the bed.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
He picks it up first ring and he goes, yes,
it's a minute, and he hands it to me and
Sandy's voice is so faint. She was Tammy. I said yeah.
She goes, do you know, and I said yes, I know, sweetie,
I know. I said where are you? And she goes,
they brought me back here. I said they who? And
(03:00):
I said you're at your house? And she is yes.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
The police dropped Sandy back at home at three forty
five am on Christmas Eve.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
And I said we'll be right there. She says okay,
and she clicked off and I told him, I said,
I can't believe they took her back. She's at the house.
And so we jump in the car and we drive
over there and get there.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
When Tammy and her husband arrive at the Melgar's house,
they have to push their way through the massive reporters
and cameras gathered outside.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Friends and relatives say fifty two year old Haimimelgar had
no enemies, and tonight they are rallying around his broken
hearted widow.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
We're just trying to christ you know. Reporters in front,
and we go under the yellow tape and go in
and Sandy's sitting on her sofa and she's holding her dog, Lola,
the Pomeranian, and she's so so so pale, and her
skin is so blanched and she can barely talk. And
I said, Sandy, have you had your medicine? I said,
(04:08):
you're going to have a seizure. I said, and you're dry,
you're dehydrated, running get a bottle of water on the fridge,
A hander water. So where's your medicine, honey, she says,
And she can tell me. So I started to go
to her bedroom. Don't go in there, and I said,
I won't look.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Jim's body was found in a closet connected to that bedroom.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
He was gone, but the blood I didn't see it.
I wouldn't look, but Tom said it was. It was horrendous.
All they had done was removed Jim. Lola had blood
on her and fingerprinting stuff and all that was all
over Lola. She's pure white. And her puppies were crying
and barking in the yard and Sandy was just sitting
(04:52):
on the couch with hardly anything on, freezing, just sitting there, shaking.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Tammy searches for draw for Fenno barbadal. That's Sandy's prescription
anti seizure medication. She can't find any.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
And I said, well, whoever did this obviously knew that
phenom barbital is the drug take And I said, because
that's gone. She goes, oh, I had my full prescription.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Tammy locates some tablets tucked away and gives one to Sandy.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
And I just grabbed a couple of things for her
put on and wrapped her in a blanket and we
got the dogs and got her out of there.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Tammy and Tom decide to take Sandy back to their house,
hoping it will be a refuge from the crime scene
and from the pack of reporters we're.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
Just trying to get as a statement. Sandra Melgar saw
comfort today and the arms of a friend in the
wake of her husband's bizarre murder.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
She was and the lights. They started taking pictures and
she just started shaking and shaking it. And I wrapped
her tightly and threw the blanket even more of her head,
and we get her into the car and you know,
put it in the back, slam the door, and they're
asking for a statement. Thirty two years with the anniversary,
there's Aunt that's Tammy.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
She's sitting in the front seat of the car, shielding
her eyes from the glare of the cameras, her face
twisted in anguish, all for viewers at home to see
as journalists cramble around trying to question her and Sandy murder.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
She was unable to speak from the backseat of this
car where we saw her wrapped in a blanket laying
down Stewart.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
And we left and they said, where are you taking it?
Where are you taking her?
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Back at her house, Tammy put Sandy in a hot
shower to warm up. She's freezing cold, and.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
She kept saying, I still smell it, I still smell it.
And I said, what are you smelling the here? She
has the blood, so much blood, Tammy, so much blood.
But when I was washing her hair for her, there
was a bump, a big noot on her head as
a Sandy, we need to go to er, and I said,
I don't know what they did to you, and she
said I can't, I can't, and she was crying, and
(07:06):
don't take me to another cold, hard place.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
So they try to get some rest instead, and.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
I got her under the electric blanket and she slept
with me and Tom slipped in the guest room and
she stayed awake all night. She was crying, saying, how
could they do this to him? How could they do this?
And then she said, what am I going to do
without him? He's everything? And I said, I know. Then
(07:33):
at one point, all of a sudden, she goes tell
me they think I did this. And I thought she
was just babbling, you know, shock. I said, that's ridiculous,
you were tied up. I said, no one would ever
think that you did this. That's the most ridiculous thing
I've ever heard. And I said, who thinks you did this?
(07:55):
And she goes the police.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
I'm Maggie Robinson Katz and from BBC's Studios and iHeart podcasts.
This is Hands Tied, episode three, Homecoming.
Speaker 5 (08:23):
I could have left a guy here this Christmas Day.
It was the twenty fifth when we landed.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
By the time Liz and her husband land in Texas,
her mom, Sandy, is already at Tammy's house and has
already been quizzed by the police about her dad Jim's murder.
Speaker 5 (08:39):
I think I was completely in shock the whole time.
I mean I broke down on the plane a few times,
and when I was picked up from the airport. I
think that's when it hit me, but not entirely, because
I feel like I was in shock for years.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
A cousin picks them up at George Bush International Airport,
and a wave of emotion and relief hits Liz because
sitting in the backseat of the car is Sandy. After
hours of frantic worrying about her mom, at least here
she is. She's not in a good way, though.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
Yeah, my mom just like falls apart and she's got
bruises all down her arms, and asking her what happened,
and I mean she was just bawling, she was just crying.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
They get back to Tammy's house, which has become the
gathering place for all of Sandy's relatives and friends.
Speaker 5 (09:33):
So I didn't flat out say what happened because I
didn't want to make her talk about this right if
she wasn't ready.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Slowly, Sandy tells Liz what she remembers about the events
leading up to Jim's death.
Speaker 5 (09:48):
At that moment, I remember thinking, you're sitting in this
bathtub right with the person that you think you're spending
the rest of your life with. You're talking about what
you're about to do now that he's retired, your plans,
all this stuff, and then he gets up to go
let the dogs in, and the next thing you wake
up and your whole life has been turned upside down.
(10:09):
And I just remember that thought going through my head
over and over again.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Sandy tails Liz about the police interview.
Speaker 5 (10:18):
Didn't they take you to the hospital. No, you know,
she thought she'd had a seizure, she had a bump
on her head. She said that they had interrogated her,
that they wanted her to do a light detector test.
She said, no, I'm too stressed and frazzled right now.
I will not pass a light detector test. It all
felt very wrong.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Liza's head is spinning. It's a lot to process. Her
dad is dead, and it seems like her mom is
a suspect.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
It's a lot.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
It's more than most people can handle, too much for
one person.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
She's drained, exhausted, jet lagged, barely recovered from the miscarriage
she's just had. But now that seems like an eternity ago,
and these most desperate of circumstances, she turns to the
person who she could always rely on to keep a
cool head in a crisis her dad.
Speaker 5 (11:17):
My dad was always telling me how important it is
not to get too emotional about things, and to step
back and separate yourself and try and look at things
from this perspective that isn't emotional or biased.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Like Jim.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Liz isn't a panicer, so she channels his calm, logical brain.
And there's her other superpower. Those true crime books she
obsessed over as a teenager, which led her to study
neuroscience in England, knowledge which she has stored up and
can now put to use.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
It was definitely already cynical about the police. I already
was very distressing of them. And you're taught to believe
that they're going to help you, right there there to
help you and they want to make sure you get
justice or whatever bullshit that they tell you.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
But I have.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
Seen how they've treated other people. And then you know,
reading these like true crime accounts where sometimes the police
have released victims back into their killers custody, or you know,
usually they don't listen when it's somebody who is not white,
(12:28):
or you know, who's not in authority. I don't know,
there's just different circumstances, right, So I was very familiar
with these types of interactions, and we started from there.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Liz swings into action. First, she wants to find out
how her dad died, so she tracks down a number
for the medical examiner.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
I remember calling the NY's office and trying to get
some information. So I called the detective and they asked
if they could come see me at Tom and Tammy's house.
I said, okay.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
It's the day after Christmas, twenty twelve, and two detectives
are outside Tom and Tammy's house in Houston.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
They knock at our door. Sandy's in the back, and
she immediately starts trembling and shaking.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
It's the same two detectives who interviewed Sandy, Deputy Carousel
and Sergeant to say.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
So, I stayed back there with her, and I'm like,
you don't have to go out. They'll be seeing to
the front room. You don't have to see them.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
But it's okay because they're not here to see Sandy,
they're here to talk to Liz. Liz records the interview
using a tablet she'd given her husband Anthony for Christmas.
This was twenty twelve. Applets were high tech and more
than a decade later, Liz and I are in my
hotel room in Wimbledon, London, listening back to that recording Semumer.
Speaker 6 (14:10):
Twenty six, twenty twelve, case number one two one seventy
six two six' Nine Sean kerzelhairrishetty homicide Sixty henry forty
two also with me as my, Partner sergeant do, say
And i'm gonna let the other two witnesses here identify.
Themselves manage and identify, Yourself Elizabeth melgarth, okay and this
is your? Husband, yeah your Name Anthony.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Rose did they know that you were? Recording?
Speaker 5 (14:35):
YEAH i told THEM i was going to.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Record IF i was in your shoes in that, POSITION
i don't THINK i would have the foresight to do.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
THAT i really don't know what made me do. IT
i guess just like mistrust and making sure THAT i
remembered what we had said and what we had talked,
about BECAUSE i felt LIKE i was in such shock
that you know, what IF i forgot EVERYTHING i had
said AND i forgot something.
Speaker 6 (14:57):
Important have you talked about been to your? Mother what
did your mother have to?
Speaker 5 (15:03):
Say she's just in complete. Shock she has a hard
time remembering things as.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
It is because of the.
Speaker 5 (15:10):
Seizures she's got a well documented history of lucas and
epilepsy for the past twenty something. Years and she basically
just told me that the, Police, well she woke up
and she was trying to sit up and.
Speaker 7 (15:22):
Get out of the, closet but she has had.
Speaker 5 (15:24):
Hip replacements and she has a lot of joint, problems
so she really couldn't, move and she didn't know how
long she had been, There SO i mean.
Speaker 7 (15:33):
She said that the police took her.
Speaker 5 (15:34):
In, well they told my family that they were taking
to the, hospital AND i spent hours calling hospitals trying
to find, her and it turned out that they didn't
take her. There it wouldn't give her, medication and she
was there for twelve.
Speaker 7 (15:46):
Hours and stress brings on, seizures and so does lack of,
sleep SO i was a bit worried about her. Health
she's quite in a quite gradual state right.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Now you sound so clear and so concise and so.
PRESENT i think it's probably.
Speaker 5 (16:06):
Just like angry THAT i had to deal with these
idiots and angry at the way they had treated.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Her time has not Softened liz's feelings towards the. Police
you do.
Speaker 6 (16:18):
Know that we had a messenal that check her out, medication,
Right but the doctor and them that saw her there
at the, scene they had cleared everything before we even
spoke to.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Her how can you, SO i see you shaking your. Head,
yeah because he's saying there was a doctor on.
Speaker 5 (16:35):
Scene there was no doctor on. Sine there were some
mts On.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Zene Emergency medical technicians.
Speaker 5 (16:42):
EMTs aren't, trained you, know to deal with this sort of.
Situation they're not going to have her medication for. Her
they should have taken her to the.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Hospital liz thinks That sandy was in no fit state
to decide for herself if she needed to go to the,
hospital she should have been taken.
Speaker 5 (17:01):
Anyway she doesn't know what's going, on she's not thinking.
Clearly she should have never been in that room answering
questions in that state and without a.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Lawyer, yeah it.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
Was just it was very frustrating because they were just
lying to my face LIKE i was this idiot who
had no, idea and that LIKE i was just going
to buy, it and it was so. Insulting it was
so insulting and just went like adding insult to.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Injury and you understand.
Speaker 6 (17:27):
That we're not pointing fingers at anybody, here but we're
trying to we're trying to get as much informational we
can't because it's either. Way we have either we're looking
at a possible suspect entered her, home and we're trying
to look at every angle.
Speaker 7 (17:41):
HERE i just don't appreciate the way my mother was
treated like.
Speaker 5 (17:45):
That she, WAS i, mean she said that the police
were basically we're just, saying you, know you did?
Speaker 3 (17:50):
It was he?
Speaker 7 (17:51):
Abusive was he having an? Affair was this? Happening was that?
Speaker 6 (17:54):
Happening, no here's the.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
DEAL i look At liz and pause the. RECORDING i, mean.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
He's denying, everything and then you get to the interrogation
footage and Everything i've said is.
Speaker 6 (18:05):
True the questions are, asked, okay but you have to,
remember and it's how somebody perceives the. Question we have
to know if somebody was out to hurt your. Father,
okay the way you take that question is the way
however you're going to take. It but that's our. Job
we have to figure out kill.
Speaker 5 (18:26):
HIM i think she probably had a seizure and that
probably freaked out whoever was, there and maybe they thought
they killed her by hitting her on the.
Speaker 6 (18:33):
HEAD i don't, know, WELL i mean that could. Be
that could be the, case and that's WHY i need to.
Know like with her condition And i'm not saying that
she could black out and all that. Stuff it could,
happen BUT i need to know if she's ever going
to remember, it because if she could ever remember a,
suspect that's the best thing for me and him because
then we have a description and everything. Else right, now
(18:54):
at this, point we have.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Nothing i've been asking, Trying.
Speaker 6 (18:57):
We're trying to solve the, case And i'm trying to
look for answers just that anything that can help us
out because that now we don't, know we know, nothing
and everybody is a.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Suspect at a, point the police Till.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Liz they're keeping an open mind and that they need her.
Help they ask if she'll be going back to her parents',
house do me.
Speaker 6 (19:19):
A favor when you're, there get a tablet out anything
you think is, missing because we need to start searching
for the eydos that are. Missing somebody came in and stole.
It if somebody come in and going to steal, stuff
if you have OLD tv the manuals to them that
has a serial, number or anything like that to it
bring it all to, us because we can start searching
(19:40):
for those items if they've been, pawned they've been sold.
Speaker 7 (19:43):
So meticulous he has all. That i'm sure he has
all those things in his house.
Speaker 6 (19:47):
Somewhere see and how your mother and father a? Relationship
how has it been in this past?
Speaker 5 (19:55):
Great, okay they were just celebrating their thirty second money. Anniversary,
alrighty it's twelve.
Speaker 6 (20:03):
Thirty he's gonna be the end of.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
The interview lasts thirteen. Minutes any sort of final thoughts
after replaying that whole.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
THING i was probably like too nice and like accommodating
and just letting them get away with the bullshit that
they were trying to feed. Me hindsight's always twenty. Twenty
BUT i didn't know WHAT i know.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Now everyone kind of thinks they know how they'll react
in a high pressure. Situation we think we'll do the honorable,
thing or we'll keep our composure in some way or
(20:53):
something like. That but when we're faced with the reality
of it, ALL i think we'd surprise, ourselves and not
always in the best. Way i've mentioned before THAT i
can kind of understand What lissa's experiencing BECAUSE i also
took on an investigation around my own dad's. Mystery growing.
(21:15):
Up my dad was a. Businessman in, FACT i learned
the word entrepreneur very early. On he always wanted to
be a, musician but pivoted that desire towards, radio owning
several stations and even pioneering the first radio network to
provide twenty four hour music programming via. Satellite so a
(21:36):
pretty amazing, career. Right my dad was filled with stories
from the time he turned down hanging out With paul,
McCartney which was a major, regret to producing a radio
program With John. Candy and to answer the question that
may have popped into your, head, YES i did grow up.
Rich but in twenty, eleven out of seemingly, nowhere my
(22:00):
dad was diagnosed with colon cancer and died just a
few weeks, later revealing a secret he'd been keeping for.
Years he was, broke the two thousand and eight real
estate crash wiping him, out but there could possibly be
something to pull him out of this financial. Hole for
(22:21):
over a, decade my dad would talk to this guy
in The philippines about gold hidden in the. Jungle this
guy told my dad he represented the Former filipino Dictator
Ferdinand marcos and was the executor of his. Will he
had access to treasure hidden in the jungle worth trillions of,
dollars and with just a modest investment to help get
(22:43):
said gold out of said, jungle my dad would be
wealthy beyond his wildest. Dreams my dad and the, sky
almost eight thousand miles, away would have nearly nightly phone.
Calls my dad would take notes using pen and, paper
keeping track of important, details numbers and, people but later
(23:05):
he transitioned to taping them. TAPES i got access to
a couple of years after his. Death thank you for
calling the event street in, health.
Speaker 8 (23:17):
Yes Mister, stuckey or in two or three.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Place there's hundreds of, them all following the same. Pattern
my dad, dials says the day and time on the,
recording and the phone. Rings this guy in The philippines picks,
up and.
Speaker 6 (23:35):
So what?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Happened, well and give some updates that really don't make any.
Sense generals decided.
Speaker 8 (23:42):
They didn't want to take it up Until monday. Morning
general got afraid to do, it and just too many
people get.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Killed for a. While from that over, here as the years,
PROGRESS i hear the timbre of my dad's voice start
to shift. Morning what started as maybe a fun hobby
for rich guy became his last saving grace after losing
all of his money in the market crash of two
thousand and. Eight if these deals can come, through then
(24:11):
my dad would be back on.
Speaker 8 (24:13):
Top don't don't get angry with. Me it's for it's four.
O'clock it's with. You i'm up with the. World, well
but what it's done to me has been. Devastating you,
KNOW i didn't ask for. THIS i didn't ask for you.
Speaker 9 (24:30):
KNOW i was told that this is all that pipe
cinch and what it's doing is just slowly killing. Me
and and you, KNOW i feel bad for, you but this.
Speaker 6 (24:42):
Is just.
Speaker 8 (24:44):
It's it's been all these.
Speaker 9 (24:46):
YEARS i just this is gonna.
Speaker 8 (24:47):
Happen it's gonna.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Happen though.
Speaker 5 (24:51):
Happen it's going.
Speaker 8 (24:52):
WELL i hope so bad what he's.
Speaker 10 (24:54):
Doing over here.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Now he never got the money and died thinking his
family would never forgive him for losing. Everything this didn't
sit well with, me SO i decided to go on
my own, quest fly to The philippines and meet this
man on the other end of the. Line SOMETHING i
found myself Telling liz about years later in a hotel
room In wimbledon In. LONDON i, mean LIKE i, remember you,
(25:20):
know like the PODCAST i did about my, DAD i
like confronted my dad's con, artist and like this fancy
hotel In, manila AND i had like a bodyguard because
they told me that he was probably gonna kill me
or like try to kill. Me and there was a
part WHERE i was kind of able to like disassociate
(25:41):
and just like kind of be. There but WHEN i
listened to, it or like WHEN i listened to my
interview with, HIM i thought the same thing about, myself
WHERE i THOUGHT i was way too, nice way too,
accommodating like really, friendly but ALSO i kind of like
thought he was going to kill. Me it's hard to
(26:02):
be the one to take the call to try and
solve the mysteries that plague your. Family and WHILE i
don't understand exactly What liz went, through there are. Similarities
we are both daughters searching for, answers and WHILE i
didn't get, Mine liz hopes that she can find.
Speaker 10 (26:21):
Hers back in twenty, twelve on the day After, Christmas
liz does exactly what.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
The police have asked her to, do but it's a tall.
Speaker 5 (26:41):
Order SO i went back to the, house which was very,
eerie and there's still a smell THAT i can't describe.
IT i think it's a mixture of the fingerprint dust
and the.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Illuminol so luminol this is a chemical use to detect
traces of blood that crime scenes that aren't visible to
the naked. Eye it glows blue in the, dark which
indicates traces of blood that could have been left behind
even after someone tries to clean it. Up the crime
scene unit used it in The melgar's bathroom.
Speaker 5 (27:15):
And then these like big black trash. BAGS i don't
know if it's like that smell all mixed, together or
if it's the chemical. SMELL i don't know what it.
Is SOMETIMES i still smell it and it takes me back.
There but this house just had this smell that wasn't the.
Smell my house had all of the furniture that had
been in my mom and dad's room was in the
living room because they had to pull up the carpet
(27:38):
and paint the floor because of all the blood and
repaint the walls and. Everything there was just black fingerprint dust,
everywhere and it was just so.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Quiet she sees the house in, disarray the drawers left,
open looking to her like they've rifled. Through did it
normally look like?
Speaker 3 (28:03):
That?
Speaker 5 (28:03):
NO i used to drive my mom crazy if anyone,
left you, know cabinet's open or drawers, open and he
drives me. Crazy but, no we never left it like.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
That it's hard For liz to tell what's missing and
what the police have. Seized the professional cleaners hired to
clean up crime scenes have already come through and everything's
been moved. About she thinks the SMALL tv which was
in her parents', bedroom, jewelry and her mom's anti seizure
(28:35):
medication are all. Gone then she goes into the, Garage
jim's man, cave his happy.
Speaker 5 (28:43):
PLACE i used to love to sit out in the
garage with him and watch him. Work Like i'd always
asked him to teach me how to do, things and
he was, like you're going to cut your hand. Off
there's no Way i'm going to teach you right. Now
but you can sit and. Watch you can help in other.
Ways SO i was like familiar with his. Workspace you,
know he loved his, tools he loved, building and he
(29:06):
loved you, know making things with his, hands working on,
cars doing these types of.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Things it was crammed with expensive looking power tools and,
machinery shelves and shelves of paint filler, sprays you, KNOW diy.
Speaker 5 (29:19):
Stuff all the toolboxes had been, opened rummaged, through just
like have, hazardly just left disorganized and jumbled. Together and
that's not how my dad was very organized with his.
Tools he was just somebody who had a routine and
a set way of doing things and he just didn't
deviate from. It and so to see the way that
(29:44):
the garage had been left was not my dad at.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
All Then liz spot something, else something totally out of,
place her old green and black backpack from middle school long,
forgot and a closet in the, house sitting on the
concrete garage.
Speaker 5 (30:04):
Floor AND i thought that was, strange and SO i
kind of stood over it AND i looked into, it
AND i could see that there was an xbox in.
There BUT i didn't want to touch any of.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
It liz knows from reading all of those true crime
books that touching it could contaminate vital.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
Evidence and SO i called the police AND i said
he should come and look at.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
This the detectives returned to the house and photograph the
backpack and the other things, that according To, liz don't add,
up but only the backpack and its contents are seats
and taken to The Harris County Forensics lab for. Testing
inside there's An, Xbox xbox, controllers An xbox, game and
(30:49):
more than twenty pieces of, jewelry including, earrings, rings and.
Necklaces valuables taken from the house highly pawnable items had
they been stashed in the garage by burglars who had
to flee the scene in a hurry when things got
out of. Hand could these hold the clues to who
Killed liz's Dad Jim. Melgar you've been listening To Hands,
(31:20):
tied a new eight part true crime series FROM Bbc
studios And iHeart. Podcasts new episodes will be released, weekly
so subscribe or follow on The iHeartRadio app or wherever
you get your podcasts so you don't miss. Out if
you like the, show please help us by spreading the
word or giving us a five star. Review I'm Maggie
(31:43):
Robinson katz and the producer Is Maggie. Latham sound design
and mix is By Tom. Brignell our script consultant Is
Emma weatherall production support is From Dan, Martini Elena boutang
And Mabel Finnegan, wright and our Product Action executive Is
Laura Jordan. Raul the series was developed By Anya saunders
(32:06):
And Emma shaw At, iHeart The Managing executive producer Is Christina,
everett and FOR Bbc, studios the executive producer Is Joe
kent
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