September 8, 2021 • 41 mins
It's hard to believe any place in sunny San Diego could be cursed, but the story of the Whaley House, with all of its business failings and tragedy, may convince you otherwise. These constant dark points in its history has culminated in a haunting that could be one of the most compelling on the west coast.
Special guest: Chudi Mahadevan
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio
and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised.
Thomas Whaley seemed destined to be a historic figure in
one way or another. His ancestors arrived from Northern Ireland
(00:24):
in Plymouth, Massachusetts, in seventy two. They specialized in business,
particularly gunsmith ing. His great grandfather played a role in
both the Boston Tea Party and the Revolutionary War by
arming soldiers and quartering General Washington for a time. Thomas
was born in New York City on October five, eighty three.
(00:45):
Before Thomas was ten years old, his father died. In
his will, he stipulated that Thomas would have a robust education.
He would attend boarding school, university, and post grad studies
with a tutor in Europe. But another source has a
different take, saying Thomas's mother, Rachel, noticed the aptitude her
son showed for business, so she decided that he would
(01:06):
be given the best possible education available at that time
in order to one day managed the affairs of the family.
In eighteen forty nine, Thomas joined the rush to California
in pursuit of gold. As a business man, Thomas set
up a shop in San Francisco where he sold goods
to prospectors. At the time, he wrote to his mother,
(01:26):
the circumstances under which I am going are indeed very favorable,
and should I not succeed, the cause can only be
attributed to myself. That certainly sounds like foreshadowing. In eighteen
fifty one, an arsonist burned down his store. Little did
Thomas know that this was just the beginning of a
series of unfortunate tragedies and deaths that would befall mister
(01:50):
Whaley and his family, events that many believe have culminated
in a home so haunted. Employees have quit midshift, tourists
have fled the property, and many refused to even set
foot within its doors. So join me, as we had
to sunny San Diego and into the corridors of the
very dark Whaley House. I'm Amy Brunei, and welcome to
(02:13):
Haunted Road. After Thomas's store was burned down, instead of
rebuilding on location, he was advised to relocate his venture
(02:33):
to San Diego, So Thomas Whaley relocated to what is
now known as Old Town. Thomas really became involved in
local affairs, like when San Diego was the site of
a skirmish between the Native San Louis and the white
settlers in the sheriff wanted to tax cattle belonging to
the Native people, an idea they did not like. There
(02:54):
was an altercation at a place called Warner's Ranch, and
Chief Antonio Gara was sentenced to death. Thomas Whaley was
one of twelve people on the firing squad that executed
Garas sentence on January tenth, eighteen fifty two. On May fourteenth,
eighteen fifty three, Thomas married Anna Louise de Launay in
New York City's Church of the Ascension. Thomas had written
(03:17):
his mother about Anna when he was first heading to
California in eighteen forty nine. I may as well inform
you that I have a particular regard for miss Anna. Indeed,
I love her and intend on marrying her if I
ever returned from California a rich man. The newly weds
returned to San Diego, where Thomas engaged in a sequence
of short term business partnerships, from operating a general store
(03:40):
with his brother to owning a brickyard. Thomas and Anna's
first two children were born before the family constructed the
Whaley House Francis Hinton, who was born on December twenty eighth,
eighteen fifty four, and Thomas Whalley Junior on August eighteenth,
eighteen fifty six. The growing Whaley family stayed with friends
or rented out rooms in the intram. In September of
(04:01):
eighteen fifty five, Thomas purchased a lot from the city.
The first structure completed on the property was a granary,
which is now connected to the house and called the Courtroom.
It's speculated that this very lot was the site of
the eighteen fifty two hanging of James Yankee Jim Robinson,
a man convicted of robbery and accused of horse theft
(04:22):
and murder. The hanging also took place in September, albeit
three years earlier. Thomas had actually witnessed the hanging of Robinson,
but apparently had no reluctance about buying the land as
an aside. Shortly after the Whaley family moved in, they
told the San Diego Union that they heard heavy footsteps
in the house, which they believed to be the ghost
(04:42):
of Yankee Jim. Seems paranormal activity goes back quite a
ways at the Whaley House, the house that Thomas Whaley
had constructed and completed during the Panic of eighteen fifty seven,
an economic depression felt around the world. The Greek Revival
structure sits at two four seven six San Diego Avenue,
again in Old Town. The first two story home of
(05:05):
its kind, with its mahogany and rosewood furniture, damask drapes
in Brussels carpets, was considered to be the finest new
brick block in southern California. There was a seven foot
high adobe wall circling the perimeter, and two gates within
the structure provided access to the yard. There was a
back corral useful for the team of horses for their carriage,
(05:25):
and a brick outhouse. The bricks were made from Whaley's backyard,
and the walls were finished with plaster made from ground seashells.
Thomas allegedly said of the home, my new house, when completed,
will be the handsomest, most comfortable, and convenient place in
town or within one fifty miles of here. However, Thomas
(05:46):
also showed financial interest in the expansion of the U.
S railway system. It seems like he hoped the railway's
arrival would give him an opportunity to make money on
his landholdings, enough so that the family could return to
New York. But Thomas wasn't the only family member to
invest time and money into the property. The yard and
flowers were Anna Whaley's delight, and the kitchen garden contained
(06:09):
all manner of vegetables and herbs. Fruit trees were orange, cherry,
fig and pomegranate. There were two cedar trees in the backyard,
and Anna had planted the pepper tree on the side
of the building herself. In addition to housing the Whaley family,
the house functioned as the first courthouse for San Diego County,
held the first commercial theater, and for a time acted
(06:30):
as the Whaley and cross Wait General Store, all of
which have been restored to the museum today. In the
later months of eighteen fifty seven, Thomas first reopened the
store in his new home, but shortly thereafter moved to
a location closer to the central business district. Neither venture
proved fruitful. Eighteen fifty eight was a bad year for
(06:50):
Thomas Whaley and his family. First, eighteen month old Thomas Jr.
Succumbed to scarlet fever on January eighteen fifty eight in
the Whaley home. Some good news came, though, when daughter
Anna Amelia was born on June twenty seventh, eighteen fifty eight,
also in the home. Later that summer, Thomas's business was
once again burned down, but this time the fire was
(07:13):
started by rats with a penchant for chewing on matches.
Liquor barrels were saved, but thousands of dollars were ruined.
Thomas's other investments, like the brick yard and his home,
brought in little to nothing. His business connections in San
Diego had been soured by his dogged pursuits and the
debts owed to him. After that year, especially with the
(07:34):
loss of their son, the Waley family left San Diego
for San Francisco. In San Francisco, Waley worked as a U. S.
Army commissary store keeper nearly six years in though complaints
about his performance made their way to Washington. Facing dishonorable discharge,
Whaley resigned in February eighteen sixty five. During this period,
(07:55):
Anna and Thomas also had three more children. George Hayes
wrinkled bore November fifth, eighteen sixty Violet Eloise born October fourteenth,
eighteen sixty two, and Karine Lillian born September fourth, eighteen
sixty four. In the meantime, Thomas rented the San Diego
home to numerous occupants. At some point while they were away, however,
(08:17):
the home became infisted with rats. Rats seemed to be
a real problem in this bit of history, so when
lawyer and Justice of the Peace Augustus s Emsworth moved
into the home in the summer of eighteen sixty to
manage the interests Thomas left behind, he had some very
unwelcome roommates. In eighteen sixty seven, Thomas Whaley assisted in
(08:38):
the American takeover of Alaska, where he established stores at Sitcup,
helped set up an American base, and served as councilman. Meanwhile,
Anna and the rest of the family stayed in San Francisco.
In May of eighteen sixty eight, a major earthquake hit
the region, and after this the Whaley family returned to
their San Diego home. It wasn't in good shape. Clearly,
(08:59):
Thomas all the necessary repairs, and daughter Lilian later recalled
that the arch which stands between the two parlors was
still in place. It is said that Yankee Jim, who
had been arrested for stealing a boat, was hanged over
that very spot. That spot today is still reported to
be one of the most haunted spots in that building.
(09:20):
That October never wanted to shy away from making a buck,
Thomas Whaley rented out an upstairs bedroom to a traveling
theater troope, the Tanner Troope, for the troops opening night performance.
The small room accommodated a stage, a few benches, and
an astonishing one hundred fifty guests. It was standing room only,
and the ladies had been advised not to wear their
(09:42):
hoop skirts or petticoats that evening to allow for more room.
Thomas Tanner, the leader of the troop, died just seventeen
days after opening. The troop was effectively disbanded by the
end of January eighteen sixty nine. For a few years,
the county rented some of the upstairs room for record storage. However,
as the new town of San Diego was built up
(10:04):
and became the hub, the records were removed during a
raid in March of eighteen seventy one. After that abrupt departure,
Thomas made more renovations. He joined the Granary to the house,
changed the front facade of the home, and altered some
windows and doors. The Panic of eighteen seventy three, another
economic crisis that triggered a depression in Europe and North America,
(10:25):
certainly unsettled Thomas, who was still awaiting the fortune he
imagined was waiting for him in California. It was at
this time he reached out to his mother for financial aid.
Between eighteen seventy three and eighteen seventy five, Thomas left
his family in San Diego and returned to New York,
supposedly to settle his father's estate. His father had died
(10:48):
in eighteen thirty two. The will was supposed to have
been settled when the youngest of Thomas's siblings reached twenty
years of age. That had come and gone, so Thomas
went to New York to force his mother's hand in
the matter. You received five thousand dollars over a hundred
thousand dollars by today's standards, and put that towards his debts.
After that time, Thomas returned to San Diego but wasn't
(11:09):
able to find work. The Whaley family was dependent on
their firstborn son, Francis. All of this took a toll
on the family. Idleness, poverty, and despair affected Whaley's disposition.
His wife and children complained of abuse. His son George's
passion for violin and to shape a career as a musician.
For the brunt of Thomas's frustrations, George left home, donned
(11:34):
his mother's maiden name, and tried to find a niche
for himself. Anna, Amelia, and her younger sister Violet married
their bows in a double ceremony at the family home
on January. Anna married her first cousin, Chaunty Whaley, and
Violet married a man named George T. Bertelacchi. Violet and
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George's marriage proved unbearable. Two weeks into Violet's marriage, as
the couple was traveling back east on their honeymoon, she
awoke one morning to find her husband gone. Bertolacci, as
it turned out, was a con artist, and, as Violet
and her family later learned, had only married her for
the substantial dowry he believed he would collect upon marriage.
The humiliation and shame were profound as Violet bore the
(12:17):
moral burden of her husband's choices. The couple divorced in
eighteen sixty three, but violet suffering continued long after that.
On Juve, Violet tried to drown herself in the family's cistern.
It was this event that prompted a physician to keep
an eye on her. After a period of great depression,
(12:38):
monitored by this physician, Violet died by suicide on the
morning of August eighteenth, eighty five. She shot herself in
the heart with her father Smith and weston thirty two
caliber pistol. He found her injured in the outhouse and
brought her into the home. Violet died shortly afterward in
the parlor. Thomas said, I don't think she lived longer
(13:00):
than ten or fifteen minutes. She never spoke a word,
never groaned. Violet had left a note as Stanza from
the poem Bridge of Size by Thomas Hood, mad from
life's history, swift to death's mystery, glad to be hurled anywhere, anywhere,
out of this world. When asked by the corner why
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Violet had threatened to take her life, Lilian explained, I
don't know why. I think she was tired of life,
tired of living here, thought no one cared for her,
and that her life was a burden. The coroner also
asked if there had been any kind of fight or
disagreement the night before, but Lilian painted a clear picture
of the family's efforts and concerns. No, No one had
(13:43):
words with her that night. Been a long time since
we had any words or bad feelings with her. Did
all we could to make it pleasant for her, or
far from saying or doing anything unkind. Furthermore, Thomas added
that Violet had shown no particular life or interest for
some time. She was naturally of a lively nature and
loved music very much, played the piano and guitar, and
(14:05):
seemed to take more interest in such things. Lately we
thought she was getting better. This dark chapter catalyzed Thomas
to build the family a modest escape in the new
Downtown on State Street in November of eighteen eighty five.
Thomas maintained a real estate business until his retirement in
eighteen eighty eight, a decision spurred by his failing health.
(14:27):
He died two years later, on December fourteenth, eighteen ninety,
in the family's downtown home. Meanwhile, the original Whaley House
was neglected. Francis Whaley, eldest son and Sureley saddled with
much family responsibility, resolved to restore the home. His mother Anna,
sister Lillian, and brother George all lived in the home together.
(14:49):
Francis utilized the family home as a residence and tourist attraction,
where posted signs outside promoted its historical nature, and then
he would entertain visitors with his guitar. Daughter Anna Amelia,
died in Modesto, California, on December eighteenth, nineteen o five. Anna,
the Whaley matriarch, died in the home on February nineteen thirteen.
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Eldest son Francis, died in the home on November nineteenth,
nineteen fourteen, and violinist George Whaley died January fifth, nineteen.
He was residing in the home at the time, but
we can't find any record that he died in the home.
Lillian maintained her place in the home until her own
death in nineteen fifty three at a nearby nursing home.
(15:32):
At that point, she had been the sole caretaker for
nearly half a century, so it had fallen into a
terrible state of disrepair, but even in ruin it was beautiful.
Supporters of the home raised money to restore the home
and preserve the story it tells of early San Diego
life generally and the Whaley family specifically. It was registered
(15:53):
as a Historic landmark in nineteen thirty two and was
dedicated as a Historic House Museum in nineteen six d. Clearly,
paranormal claims within the Whaley House have run rampant over
the years. It is easily one of the most notable
haunted homes on the West Coast. Workers and visitors claimed
to hear strange, unexplained sounds, sites, and even smells. Many
(16:16):
feel a powerful presence whenever inside the residence. Another common
report is loud footsteps stopping on the floor. Reports also
point to the sound of a child crying and giggling.
A young woman, many believed to be Violet, has been
reported on numerous occasions on the second floor of the house.
Cold spots are frequent throughout the mansion, also believed to
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be Violet's doing. The stairwells within the residents have been
mentioned by many to be the wandering area for Thomas,
Anna and other spirits. Thomas is often seen sporting his
trademark top hat and coat while looking down from the
top of the stairs. Some people have detected the scent
of French perfume permeating the home, a favorite of Anna's
that she often wore. On top of all this, physical
(17:00):
objects are often manipulated on their own, such as the
music rooms chandelier, which will swing back and forth at
will when no wind is present. Lights will turn off
and on without explanation. So up next, we're going to
talk with Judy Maha Davon. She is a former tour
guide and docent from the Whaley House, and she's going
to fill us in on what you can expect if
(17:20):
you plan a visit there. Also, I haven't mentioned this,
but this is one of the few places we've covered
on Haunted Road that I've never been. So you and
I are in this together, and I'm very excited to
hear what Shooty has to share with us. So I
(17:52):
am sitting here with Judy Maha Davon, who is a
former tour guide and docent from the Whaley House, and
she's had a lot of experiences. She spent a lot
of time there. She's got a lot of thoughts and
theories on what's happening at the house. She was referred
to me by a number of people who told me
she was the person to talk to about the Whaley House.
So welcome to the program. Thank you, Thank you so
(18:14):
much for having me. Like so many of the guests
that we have, we had a number of technical issues
trying to get Chudy on the show, and I feel
like this is just like the byproduct of trying to
do a haunted podcast. Um, so, can you just kind
of let us know, like, what is it that you
did with the house and how long did you spend there? Yeah?
(18:37):
So I was there for about a year. I was
a docent there and I gave tours to guests and
that was just kind of cut short because of COVID,
right exactly. Yeah, Yeah, that's a huge bummer. I mean,
and now it sounds like they've reopened, but you've already
taken a job working on another haunted location, the USS Midway.
It seems like no where I work, it's always just fun.
(18:59):
I have that problem too. I don't know, it's really strange.
I mean, in a year, it sounds like you gathered
a lot of experiences at the house itself. What attracted
you to working there? Did you go there knowing that
it was haunted or was there any other reason why
you ended up there? Actually yeah. So the first time
that actually went there, I was in fifth grade, and
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I remember I was like so scared, because you know,
when you're a kid, you know, you hear like the
houses were going to a haunted house, Wally House, and
I was like, oh no, but I just fell in
love with it. Have you always lived in San Diego then, yeah,
born race, So you basically have had that house in
your backyard this whole time pretty much? Yea, and so,
(19:41):
and that was your bulldog in the background, right, that's
not a ghost here him just a little bit. But
I just wanted to verify. Every time there's a strange
noise while doing this podcast, I get a million comments
on Twitter and Facebook and people want to know what
it was. So just for clarification, do you hear strange
growling and the background and shooties and it's her adorable dog.
(20:03):
But we also did have spirits in the house that
had We had little four legged ones too, so not
only humans, we had pets. So I heard that about
the house. So let's skip ahead to that. Because I'm curious.
People ask me about animal ghosts all the time, and
so I had heard that there was at least a
ghost of one dog in the house. What kind of
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experiences were people having with that? So people would come
in the house, especially children, you know, like now more
animals are more open to seeing things. They So I've
had kids come in the house and they're like, oh,
there's a doggie. There's a little doggie, And I was like, oh,
what color is it? Because we have three animals that
(20:44):
people have been seeing. Um, there's Dolly. She was a
little white fox terrier. She's probably the most like people
have gotten pictures of her. She likes to hang out
underneath the dining room. Team, so we have people come in,
always tell them, you know, make sure it take pictures
underneath the dinner table because you might see. So we
have a little white fox terrier. Um, there's a little pug.
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People of her like respiratory like breathing, like like your
dog is doing right now. Yeah, and his name Chubby.
It's a little pug. And then there's also a little
black cat named Winks. Oh okay, And now all of
these animals. Are these animals that you guys have documented
actually spent time there over the years, or are these
(21:28):
names that you've given these ghosts They were actually named
by the whalies. Okay, so these are actual animals that
the Whales had in the house. Yes, going through the
history of the Whaley House, it's very tragic, like they're
just a number of tragedies and just kind of back
and forth that went on with that family and Thomas
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Whaley in particular. Do you think that's why the house
is so haunted. I believe so. I believe it's one
of the most haunted places in America because even before
the house was built, like he built it himself. That
is actually where the gallows stood, right, And so I
know that he supposedly even witnessed a man being hanged
(22:11):
there before he even bought the property, So he knew
about its history and even thought the house was haunted
after he built it. Yeah. So even the family themselves,
the Whalies, even said the house was haunted. They experienced
footsteps which we still here to this day. Even their
(22:32):
daughter Violet, who committed suicide in the backyard, they could
feel her presence in the house. A lot of people
feel sadness, depression, anxiety, right, Yeah, I mean her death
was especially tragic because you know, the family really they
knew that she was contemplating suicide at that point, and
(22:55):
they had tried to stop her, and it sounds like
she really really went out of her way to kind
hide it from them and see it through. And I
can't imagine just how they felt at that point. Yeah,
that poor feeling. They went through so many tragedies, like
they lost Thomas Jr. When he was only eighteen months
from scarlet fever. He passed with his mom's arms, and
(23:18):
then Violet. It's just so I think it just has
to maybe like the residual energy. And yeah, I mean
I think so for sure. I mean I just when
you go through everything they went through, it just makes
perfect sense how that house could become haunted. Now, let's
talk about experiences people have had their Like, what was
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your first experience in the home. So my first experience
this was probably my second week there, and I was
upstairs the San Diego's first commercial stairs. It's probably one
of my favorite rooms. I was sitting in the chair
and I was giving a little tour to a group
of people and my chair really just started like shaking,
(24:01):
like someone was right behind me, just like shaking it.
I didn't I didn't get up. I just sat there
and I was like okay, and the curator who was
in the same room, and he's like, welcome to the
Whale House. First experience. I'm just more sensitive than others.
Everybody that has worked there, they have had experiences. Sometimes
(24:22):
they're just nervous, right, that makes sense. So you said
the curator at that point was like, welcome to the
Whaley House. And so, I mean, I feel like so
many employees there must have had experiences over the years,
maybe even unwittingly. Have you heard of anyone like quitting
their job because of what happened to them there? Oh? Yeah,
(24:43):
especially volunteers too, especially the nonbelievers. There's one volunteer he's like,
I don't believe any of this crap, blah blah blah
bla blah, Like okay, you know, everybody has their own beliefs.
And then he saw something super crazy. I didn't see it.
I'm glad I didn't see it. I don't want to
see it, and I never want to see what He
(25:04):
explained to me, like he just looked freaked out, and
I was like, what happened? Are you okay? He's like no,
How's like tell you what happened? So in the courtroom,
that's probably my least favorite room. I'll tell you my
experience in there, because I disavoid that room. Well, he
saw it was at night, and he said, it looks
(25:25):
like a small, small child and it just looked like
I had like a broken leg and it was like
something sliding across the floor. And then he never came back.
I mean, that would be so tragic to see something
like that. That's one of the weirdest things about the
Whale House to me is all these strange incarnations of
(25:46):
what it was. It was a general story, it was
a courthouse, it was a theater upstairs. Like it just
seemed like Thomas Whaley was always trying to find a
way to use the house to make an income. And
so what happened to you in the courthouse exactly? So
this is probably one of the strangest experiences I've ever had.
(26:07):
So I went into the courtroom on the left hand side.
I probably just walked in there just at the wrong time.
There's I just felt this energy just literally go right
through me and I almost passed out, like lightheaded, dizzy.
(26:29):
I got a little nauseous, and I was like, I
gotta stick outside for a minute. I gotta get some
fresh air. Yeah. So so do you think like when
that kind of thing happens, do you think that you're
having like almost like a panicked reaction to this energy
that you're feeling, or do you think that this whatever
it is is actually like physically making you ill. I
(26:52):
I don't know if it's trying to make me ill.
I think they know that I'm not scared of them,
I think. Because this might sound crazy, well just some
people that I'm sure you understand, Like when I go
into the house, I would say good morning to them,
like I had. This sounds weird, but I kind of
had like a little relationship with the spirits there because
(27:14):
I would communicate with them, like talk to them out loud.
But I don't know if it made me ill or
if it was trying to get my attention, or it
just and just went right through me right exactly. I mean,
it sounds like a lot of the experiences that people
have there are I mean, obviously people have a lot
of like kind of benign type experiences where they see
(27:35):
something or they hear something, but there are these kind
of more powerful, almost physical experiences that people have. In
my experience, when that happens, it's usually someone who's really
trying to get a person's attention or really trying to
get some sort of message across. Do you feel like
these spirits at the house are unsettled in any way,
(27:56):
or that there's something that they need accomplished still in
their world? I think so, especially one of the men
that was executed there, or I mean, we don't know
how many hangings happened on that property, and there could
have been a lot more deaths on the property that
we don't know that weren't documented or written down in
(28:16):
their diaries, right right, I think I covered at least
five or six in the history, but it does sound
like there could have been more. For sure. There is
one that was brought up. I don't know if you
have any other information on this, but there was supposedly
a little girl who potentially had passed away on the property.
It was like an accident, but I wasn't able to
(28:37):
verify that, so someone made up that story. They said
that she died in the backyard from like a clothes
line and none that just spread like wildfire. Okay, that's
what I thought, and that's what we found as well.
You know, I always want to ask because maybe some
new information came to light since we researched this. I
feel like you don't need to start rumors about the
way the house. I feel like there's plenty of tragedy
(28:59):
to go around. You don't need to make up anymore. Yeah,
there's enough going on in that house exactly. Okay, So, now,
what kind of experience is like if you're just a
visitor and you're going to the Wayley House to visit,
what kind of experiences do you think people could expect
to have. So a lot of people they would come
to me, they're like, I feel super sad, I feel depressed.
(29:19):
I've had people just break down and cry. Right upstairs
is extremely heavy for me. And I believe Violet was
on suicide Watch upstairs right and their sun pass away
upstairs as well. So I mean, that's just like a
daytime moment, like you can just walk through and you
can feel it. Now, you talked about what happened to
(29:42):
you in the courthouse. What other experiences of note have
you had or other people had that you think are
extra powerful. This is an experience I haven't really shared
with a lot of people because it did startle me
a little bit. So I was giving a tour downstairs.
We were standing right between the study in the parlor,
(30:03):
right where the archway is. We're approximately where the gallows did.
Thomas really felt that we don't know why. Only he
could tell us why. So I was standing there talking
and I guess said, you have a red it looks
like rope fibers around your neck, like you have scratch
(30:25):
around the neck. And I was like what. And then
I looked in the mirror and it looked like rope
fibers around my neck and I was like, oh my god.
And then I had step outside for a minute after
giving that little tour. My boss was like, oh my gosh, like,
we haven't seen that such a long time. It doesn't
happen a lot. Oh, so this is something that has
happened to people before, and unbeknownst to you, I'm assuming
(30:46):
at that time until your old boss let you know. Yes,
and people are like, oh my god, why are you
still working here? And I was like, I think they're
just trying to get my attention. I'm like, okay, you
have my attention. How many people were like how can
you possibly work there? Oh? Tons of people ask me
like why do you work here? Why do you like it?
(31:07):
It's just like I'm like, I guess I'm just weird,
Like I just like not weird. But um, I don't know.
I mean, I'm sure that there are plenty of people
who work there who don't really care about the ghost aspect.
They're just there for historic purposes. But you know, I
think there are some people that it just takes. It
(31:28):
takes a special kind of person who's almost there for
the ghosts, but in kind of like a compassionate way
or just kind of a you know, you want to
make sure that their story is being told or they're
being treated respectfully. Like I start feeling almost protective of
ghosts in particularly historic places. And like you said, you
go in and you say good morning, and you say
(31:50):
hello to them and things, and like do you think
that's kind of just part of your personality. I think so, Yeah.
And I just have like this unique on with the
house and the spirits there, even like on their anniversaries
like Wenny anniversary or their birthday, Uh, bring like flowers
(32:10):
or cupcakes or something, just to just something for them,
and then for the coworkers as well. Yeah, I mean,
and I think that's important to kind of keep recognizing
those moments to them, and you know, it lets them
know that you care. And I think it also kind
of forms like almost a friendship or a bond with
(32:31):
them and full disclosure for people listening, like this is
one of the rare episodes of Haunted Road where I've
not investigated the Whale House. I have been to San
Diego many times, and the one time I was like,
I'm going to go toward the Whale House, I showed
up and they were doing some sort of renovation and
I was unable to go inside. So I was able
to see it, but I wasn't able to visit. And
(32:53):
It's on my bucket list, And so I'm kind of
living vicariously through you and your experience is right now
because it is just it's an unusual situation, especially because I,
you know, lived in California almost my entire life. How
did I not ever set foot in that house? So
I feel like it's destiny that I'm supposed to go
there at a certain point, you know, like there's gonna
(33:14):
be like the perfect reason for me to go there.
Maybe we'll go there with Kindred or something. But I
do feel like just reading through the history and everything
that has gone on there that there has to be
some sort of unresolved issues happening. And I'm just so curious.
Have you gotten any signs or is anybody investigated and
got any e v p s or anything to kind
(33:35):
of clue you in on what they might want or need.
We have gotten e v P s. I feel like
there's so many there's so many spirits in that house
other than the whales. Yeah, I mean it sounds like
a lot of the executions that took place there might
have a lot to do with it too. Yeah. I
(33:56):
was upstairs. I almost got pushed down the steps. I
felt hand on my back, so I don't know if
that was one of the gentlemen that was executed there,
and he was just like and then I literally said
out loud, that's not okay, do not push me. That's
definitely not okay. Yeah, I'm like, no, I don't want
to go down the stairs. You don't want to become
a spirit at the way the house. So, I mean,
(34:18):
kind of along those lines, do you feel like any
of the activity there is dangerous? Um, it's a possibility.
Like a lot of people are like, that's scary that
you almost got pushed down the steps, you got repe
fiber on your neck, and you still worked there, Like, yes, yes,
(34:38):
I do. I just love that house. Yeah yeah, I
mean that does sound kind of aggressive, I mean, and
um a little bit. Yeah. And you know, obviously we
were talking before we started recording about like Dave Trader's
experience there when they were filming Holser files, and you know,
he literally got like pushed or shoved, and so it
just makes you wondering. And again, it's around that area
(34:59):
where the gallows supposedly stood. And I find it interesting too.
You know that Thomas Whalley literally watched, you know, someone
be hanged on that property and then went ahead and
just decided to build a house there anyway. I mean,
I'm sure a lot of people would, but you know,
he knew full well. The house actually kind of fell
into disrepair a few times before it was you know,
(35:22):
it kept being kind of resurrected and brought back to life.
Why do you think people have this fascination with the
Whaley family, Like, why do you think that this is
such an important historical site? I think because it's it
was the first brick mansion built in San Diego at
that time. People are just fascinated by the history of
(35:46):
the family and paranormal phenomena that happens there. And people
wanna see the house, come in here, their stories here
about their lives, and they really want to experience and
see things. Yeah. Yeah, it usually happens when you least
expected to. Yeah. Do you guys have like regular paranormal
(36:09):
investigations or ghost tours or is it just open for
daytime tours. It's usually open for daytime tours, okay, And
so people don't really investigate that much there, do they?
Or not that much? No? Okay. Now, is there anything
in particular that raises the activity level that you've you've noticed?
(36:29):
Is there anything people do or anything that happens that
causes activity to spike? M hm. So if you like
provoke them, or let's say people come to the house
and they're rowdy or being a little disrespectful the walies,
they will set the fire alarms off and then yeah,
(36:50):
and then everybody's escorted out. So the way it's like, Okay,
you're being disrespected on our house, you know, Okay, time
to go, time to leave. I love that they figured
that out there, Like, oh, if we do this thing,
this will make everyone leave immediately. That is wild. I'm
actually surprised more ghosts haven't caught onto that, right, And
I'm like, I don't call them. I want that want
(37:12):
someone coming in my house being disrespectful? Well, no, of course,
And like you know, I always wonder, like what is
the by product that ultimately when you go into a
home and you just keep talking about the bad things
that happened over and over again. I always try to
stress that in some of these historic locations to myself
that I have to tell myself, like, don't define this
(37:33):
place by the bad things that happened. That's not fair
to the people who were here before that. Yes, bad
things happened, but there are also probably plenty of very
very good things too, you know, holidays and gatherings and
weddings and births and like all these wonderful things. And
we try to talk about that when we investigate, too,
and it gets a lot of responses, and so I wonder,
(37:53):
you know, sometimes you have these locations where people come
in and they just keep talking about the bad stuff
that happened, and I could see them getting kind of
riled up by that. Oh yeah, yeah, They'll be like,
come on, go shure yourself or you know. I'm like, oh,
you know, and I'm very protective of that house and
I'm like, oh, you need turn it down a little notch.
They're not going to be happy. Yeah. Yeah, And I
(38:15):
think that's one of the things we really strive for.
I'm sure you understand where you kind of have to
remind people that goes we're people too in theory, and
they're not, you know, here to perform for you and
do tricks like you know that there's probably a very
real reason that they're still here and you could find
yourself in their shoes one day, So maybe be a
little more respectful, you know. So now I know that
(38:37):
you're you're not at the Whale House any longer. But
if people do want to visit, what do they need
to do. It's back open for tours now, right, Yes,
So old Town Trolley Tours has the house now they're
running it. Yeah. Oh great, So they just need to
go to Old Town Trolley Tours and connect with them
and they can take a tour of the house, I believe, so, yes, yeah, okay, perfect,
(38:59):
And in the meantime, people will can find you on
the USS Midway. Okay. So it sounds like I'll need
to do an episode on the Midway and we'll talk
about that. Now that's a place I have visited and
it is really cool. So yeah, good choices, good choices
you're making so well, you know what, Shooty, thank you
so much for relaying your experiences. I appreciate it. I
(39:20):
find the Whaley House to be super fascinating. I think
a big part of that is because I have not
really been able to go in there yet, and so
I'm so curious. You're lucky to be able to do
what you did for so long, and it makes me
happy that you're still really you know, speaking up for
the house. Oh yeah, that house. It'll always have a
special place to me, like in my heart. So I'll
probably be back there one day. Oh great, Well, thank
(39:43):
you so much, Thank you so much for having me.
The Whaley House is now officially calling to me. All
this history, lore and reports of paranormal activity has my
interest intensely paked. Having spent most of my life in California,
it's wild to me that I never investigated at the
(40:03):
Whaley House. But maybe fate had other plans. Maybe I
just wasn't ready. So please, if you do happen to visit,
reach out to me on social media and let me
know how it went. If you get a whiff of
French perfume or see a fleeting vision of Violet, I
wouldn't be surprised one bit. I'm Amy Bruney and this
(40:23):
was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is a production of I
Heart Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Mankey. The
podcast is written and hosted by Amy Bruney. Executive producers
(40:44):
include Aaron Manky, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. The show
is produced by rima Ill Kali and Trevor Young. Taylor
Haggerdorn is the show's researcher. For more podcasts from I
Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. M
Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio
and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised.
Thomas Whaley seemed destined to be a historic figure in
one way or another. His ancestors arrived from Northern Ireland
(00:24):
in Plymouth, Massachusetts, in seventy two. They specialized in business,
particularly gunsmith ing. His great grandfather played a role in
both the Boston Tea Party and the Revolutionary War by
arming soldiers and quartering General Washington for a time. Thomas
was born in New York City on October five, eighty three.
(00:45):
Before Thomas was ten years old, his father died. In
his will, he stipulated that Thomas would have a robust education.
He would attend boarding school, university, and post grad studies
with a tutor in Europe. But another source has a
different take, saying Thomas's mother, Rachel, noticed the aptitude her
son showed for business, so she decided that he would
(01:06):
be given the best possible education available at that time
in order to one day managed the affairs of the family.
In eighteen forty nine, Thomas joined the rush to California
in pursuit of gold. As a business man, Thomas set
up a shop in San Francisco where he sold goods
to prospectors. At the time, he wrote to his mother,
(01:26):
the circumstances under which I am going are indeed very favorable,
and should I not succeed, the cause can only be
attributed to myself. That certainly sounds like foreshadowing. In eighteen
fifty one, an arsonist burned down his store. Little did
Thomas know that this was just the beginning of a
series of unfortunate tragedies and deaths that would befall mister
(01:50):
Whaley and his family, events that many believe have culminated
in a home so haunted. Employees have quit midshift, tourists
have fled the property, and many refused to even set
foot within its doors. So join me, as we had
to sunny San Diego and into the corridors of the
very dark Whaley House. I'm Amy Brunei, and welcome to
(02:13):
Haunted Road. After Thomas's store was burned down, instead of
rebuilding on location, he was advised to relocate his venture
(02:33):
to San Diego, So Thomas Whaley relocated to what is
now known as Old Town. Thomas really became involved in
local affairs, like when San Diego was the site of
a skirmish between the Native San Louis and the white
settlers in the sheriff wanted to tax cattle belonging to
the Native people, an idea they did not like. There
(02:54):
was an altercation at a place called Warner's Ranch, and
Chief Antonio Gara was sentenced to death. Thomas Whaley was
one of twelve people on the firing squad that executed
Garas sentence on January tenth, eighteen fifty two. On May fourteenth,
eighteen fifty three, Thomas married Anna Louise de Launay in
New York City's Church of the Ascension. Thomas had written
(03:17):
his mother about Anna when he was first heading to
California in eighteen forty nine. I may as well inform
you that I have a particular regard for miss Anna. Indeed,
I love her and intend on marrying her if I
ever returned from California a rich man. The newly weds
returned to San Diego, where Thomas engaged in a sequence
of short term business partnerships, from operating a general store
(03:40):
with his brother to owning a brickyard. Thomas and Anna's
first two children were born before the family constructed the
Whaley House Francis Hinton, who was born on December twenty eighth,
eighteen fifty four, and Thomas Whalley Junior on August eighteenth,
eighteen fifty six. The growing Whaley family stayed with friends
or rented out rooms in the intram. In September of
(04:01):
eighteen fifty five, Thomas purchased a lot from the city.
The first structure completed on the property was a granary,
which is now connected to the house and called the Courtroom.
It's speculated that this very lot was the site of
the eighteen fifty two hanging of James Yankee Jim Robinson,
a man convicted of robbery and accused of horse theft
(04:22):
and murder. The hanging also took place in September, albeit
three years earlier. Thomas had actually witnessed the hanging of Robinson,
but apparently had no reluctance about buying the land as
an aside. Shortly after the Whaley family moved in, they
told the San Diego Union that they heard heavy footsteps
in the house, which they believed to be the ghost
(04:42):
of Yankee Jim. Seems paranormal activity goes back quite a
ways at the Whaley House, the house that Thomas Whaley
had constructed and completed during the Panic of eighteen fifty seven,
an economic depression felt around the world. The Greek Revival
structure sits at two four seven six San Diego Avenue,
again in Old Town. The first two story home of
(05:05):
its kind, with its mahogany and rosewood furniture, damask drapes
in Brussels carpets, was considered to be the finest new
brick block in southern California. There was a seven foot
high adobe wall circling the perimeter, and two gates within
the structure provided access to the yard. There was a
back corral useful for the team of horses for their carriage,
(05:25):
and a brick outhouse. The bricks were made from Whaley's backyard,
and the walls were finished with plaster made from ground seashells.
Thomas allegedly said of the home, my new house, when completed,
will be the handsomest, most comfortable, and convenient place in
town or within one fifty miles of here. However, Thomas
(05:46):
also showed financial interest in the expansion of the U.
S railway system. It seems like he hoped the railway's
arrival would give him an opportunity to make money on
his landholdings, enough so that the family could return to
New York. But Thomas wasn't the only family member to
invest time and money into the property. The yard and
flowers were Anna Whaley's delight, and the kitchen garden contained
(06:09):
all manner of vegetables and herbs. Fruit trees were orange, cherry,
fig and pomegranate. There were two cedar trees in the backyard,
and Anna had planted the pepper tree on the side
of the building herself. In addition to housing the Whaley family,
the house functioned as the first courthouse for San Diego County,
held the first commercial theater, and for a time acted
(06:30):
as the Whaley and cross Wait General Store, all of
which have been restored to the museum today. In the
later months of eighteen fifty seven, Thomas first reopened the
store in his new home, but shortly thereafter moved to
a location closer to the central business district. Neither venture
proved fruitful. Eighteen fifty eight was a bad year for
(06:50):
Thomas Whaley and his family. First, eighteen month old Thomas Jr.
Succumbed to scarlet fever on January eighteen fifty eight in
the Whaley home. Some good news came, though, when daughter
Anna Amelia was born on June twenty seventh, eighteen fifty eight,
also in the home. Later that summer, Thomas's business was
once again burned down, but this time the fire was
(07:13):
started by rats with a penchant for chewing on matches.
Liquor barrels were saved, but thousands of dollars were ruined.
Thomas's other investments, like the brick yard and his home,
brought in little to nothing. His business connections in San
Diego had been soured by his dogged pursuits and the
debts owed to him. After that year, especially with the
(07:34):
loss of their son, the Waley family left San Diego
for San Francisco. In San Francisco, Waley worked as a U. S.
Army commissary store keeper nearly six years in though complaints
about his performance made their way to Washington. Facing dishonorable discharge,
Whaley resigned in February eighteen sixty five. During this period,
(07:55):
Anna and Thomas also had three more children. George Hayes
wrinkled bore November fifth, eighteen sixty Violet Eloise born October fourteenth,
eighteen sixty two, and Karine Lillian born September fourth, eighteen
sixty four. In the meantime, Thomas rented the San Diego
home to numerous occupants. At some point while they were away, however,
(08:17):
the home became infisted with rats. Rats seemed to be
a real problem in this bit of history, so when
lawyer and Justice of the Peace Augustus s Emsworth moved
into the home in the summer of eighteen sixty to
manage the interests Thomas left behind, he had some very
unwelcome roommates. In eighteen sixty seven, Thomas Whaley assisted in
(08:38):
the American takeover of Alaska, where he established stores at Sitcup,
helped set up an American base, and served as councilman. Meanwhile,
Anna and the rest of the family stayed in San Francisco.
In May of eighteen sixty eight, a major earthquake hit
the region, and after this the Whaley family returned to
their San Diego home. It wasn't in good shape. Clearly,
(08:59):
Thomas all the necessary repairs, and daughter Lilian later recalled
that the arch which stands between the two parlors was
still in place. It is said that Yankee Jim, who
had been arrested for stealing a boat, was hanged over
that very spot. That spot today is still reported to
be one of the most haunted spots in that building.
(09:20):
That October never wanted to shy away from making a buck,
Thomas Whaley rented out an upstairs bedroom to a traveling
theater troope, the Tanner Troope, for the troops opening night performance.
The small room accommodated a stage, a few benches, and
an astonishing one hundred fifty guests. It was standing room only,
and the ladies had been advised not to wear their
(09:42):
hoop skirts or petticoats that evening to allow for more room.
Thomas Tanner, the leader of the troop, died just seventeen
days after opening. The troop was effectively disbanded by the
end of January eighteen sixty nine. For a few years,
the county rented some of the upstairs room for record storage. However,
as the new town of San Diego was built up
(10:04):
and became the hub, the records were removed during a
raid in March of eighteen seventy one. After that abrupt departure,
Thomas made more renovations. He joined the Granary to the house,
changed the front facade of the home, and altered some
windows and doors. The Panic of eighteen seventy three, another
economic crisis that triggered a depression in Europe and North America,
(10:25):
certainly unsettled Thomas, who was still awaiting the fortune he
imagined was waiting for him in California. It was at
this time he reached out to his mother for financial aid.
Between eighteen seventy three and eighteen seventy five, Thomas left
his family in San Diego and returned to New York,
supposedly to settle his father's estate. His father had died
(10:48):
in eighteen thirty two. The will was supposed to have
been settled when the youngest of Thomas's siblings reached twenty
years of age. That had come and gone, so Thomas
went to New York to force his mother's hand in
the matter. You received five thousand dollars over a hundred
thousand dollars by today's standards, and put that towards his debts.
After that time, Thomas returned to San Diego but wasn't
(11:09):
able to find work. The Whaley family was dependent on
their firstborn son, Francis. All of this took a toll
on the family. Idleness, poverty, and despair affected Whaley's disposition.
His wife and children complained of abuse. His son George's
passion for violin and to shape a career as a musician.
For the brunt of Thomas's frustrations, George left home, donned
(11:34):
his mother's maiden name, and tried to find a niche
for himself. Anna, Amelia, and her younger sister Violet married
their bows in a double ceremony at the family home
on January. Anna married her first cousin, Chaunty Whaley, and
Violet married a man named George T. Bertelacchi. Violet and
(11:54):
George's marriage proved unbearable. Two weeks into Violet's marriage, as
the couple was traveling back east on their honeymoon, she
awoke one morning to find her husband gone. Bertolacci, as
it turned out, was a con artist, and, as Violet
and her family later learned, had only married her for
the substantial dowry he believed he would collect upon marriage.
The humiliation and shame were profound as Violet bore the
(12:17):
moral burden of her husband's choices. The couple divorced in
eighteen sixty three, but violet suffering continued long after that.
On Juve, Violet tried to drown herself in the family's cistern.
It was this event that prompted a physician to keep
an eye on her. After a period of great depression,
(12:38):
monitored by this physician, Violet died by suicide on the
morning of August eighteenth, eighty five. She shot herself in
the heart with her father Smith and weston thirty two
caliber pistol. He found her injured in the outhouse and
brought her into the home. Violet died shortly afterward in
the parlor. Thomas said, I don't think she lived longer
(13:00):
than ten or fifteen minutes. She never spoke a word,
never groaned. Violet had left a note as Stanza from
the poem Bridge of Size by Thomas Hood, mad from
life's history, swift to death's mystery, glad to be hurled anywhere, anywhere,
out of this world. When asked by the corner why
(13:21):
Violet had threatened to take her life, Lilian explained, I
don't know why. I think she was tired of life,
tired of living here, thought no one cared for her,
and that her life was a burden. The coroner also
asked if there had been any kind of fight or
disagreement the night before, but Lilian painted a clear picture
of the family's efforts and concerns. No, No one had
(13:43):
words with her that night. Been a long time since
we had any words or bad feelings with her. Did
all we could to make it pleasant for her, or
far from saying or doing anything unkind. Furthermore, Thomas added
that Violet had shown no particular life or interest for
some time. She was naturally of a lively nature and
loved music very much, played the piano and guitar, and
(14:05):
seemed to take more interest in such things. Lately we
thought she was getting better. This dark chapter catalyzed Thomas
to build the family a modest escape in the new
Downtown on State Street in November of eighteen eighty five.
Thomas maintained a real estate business until his retirement in
eighteen eighty eight, a decision spurred by his failing health.
(14:27):
He died two years later, on December fourteenth, eighteen ninety,
in the family's downtown home. Meanwhile, the original Whaley House
was neglected. Francis Whaley, eldest son and Sureley saddled with
much family responsibility, resolved to restore the home. His mother Anna,
sister Lillian, and brother George all lived in the home together.
(14:49):
Francis utilized the family home as a residence and tourist attraction,
where posted signs outside promoted its historical nature, and then
he would entertain visitors with his guitar. Daughter Anna Amelia,
died in Modesto, California, on December eighteenth, nineteen o five. Anna,
the Whaley matriarch, died in the home on February nineteen thirteen.
(15:11):
Eldest son Francis, died in the home on November nineteenth,
nineteen fourteen, and violinist George Whaley died January fifth, nineteen.
He was residing in the home at the time, but
we can't find any record that he died in the home.
Lillian maintained her place in the home until her own
death in nineteen fifty three at a nearby nursing home.
(15:32):
At that point, she had been the sole caretaker for
nearly half a century, so it had fallen into a
terrible state of disrepair, but even in ruin it was beautiful.
Supporters of the home raised money to restore the home
and preserve the story it tells of early San Diego
life generally and the Whaley family specifically. It was registered
(15:53):
as a Historic landmark in nineteen thirty two and was
dedicated as a Historic House Museum in nineteen six d. Clearly,
paranormal claims within the Whaley House have run rampant over
the years. It is easily one of the most notable
haunted homes on the West Coast. Workers and visitors claimed
to hear strange, unexplained sounds, sites, and even smells. Many
(16:16):
feel a powerful presence whenever inside the residence. Another common
report is loud footsteps stopping on the floor. Reports also
point to the sound of a child crying and giggling.
A young woman, many believed to be Violet, has been
reported on numerous occasions on the second floor of the house.
Cold spots are frequent throughout the mansion, also believed to
(16:37):
be Violet's doing. The stairwells within the residents have been
mentioned by many to be the wandering area for Thomas,
Anna and other spirits. Thomas is often seen sporting his
trademark top hat and coat while looking down from the
top of the stairs. Some people have detected the scent
of French perfume permeating the home, a favorite of Anna's
that she often wore. On top of all this, physical
(17:00):
objects are often manipulated on their own, such as the
music rooms chandelier, which will swing back and forth at
will when no wind is present. Lights will turn off
and on without explanation. So up next, we're going to
talk with Judy Maha Davon. She is a former tour
guide and docent from the Whaley House, and she's going
to fill us in on what you can expect if
(17:20):
you plan a visit there. Also, I haven't mentioned this,
but this is one of the few places we've covered
on Haunted Road that I've never been. So you and
I are in this together, and I'm very excited to
hear what Shooty has to share with us. So I
(17:52):
am sitting here with Judy Maha Davon, who is a
former tour guide and docent from the Whaley House, and
she's had a lot of experiences. She spent a lot
of time there. She's got a lot of thoughts and
theories on what's happening at the house. She was referred
to me by a number of people who told me
she was the person to talk to about the Whaley House.
So welcome to the program. Thank you, Thank you so
(18:14):
much for having me. Like so many of the guests
that we have, we had a number of technical issues
trying to get Chudy on the show, and I feel
like this is just like the byproduct of trying to
do a haunted podcast. Um, so, can you just kind
of let us know, like, what is it that you
did with the house and how long did you spend there? Yeah?
(18:37):
So I was there for about a year. I was
a docent there and I gave tours to guests and
that was just kind of cut short because of COVID,
right exactly. Yeah, Yeah, that's a huge bummer. I mean,
and now it sounds like they've reopened, but you've already
taken a job working on another haunted location, the USS Midway.
It seems like no where I work, it's always just fun.
(18:59):
I have that problem too. I don't know, it's really strange.
I mean, in a year, it sounds like you gathered
a lot of experiences at the house itself. What attracted
you to working there? Did you go there knowing that
it was haunted or was there any other reason why
you ended up there? Actually yeah. So the first time
that actually went there, I was in fifth grade, and
(19:20):
I remember I was like so scared, because you know,
when you're a kid, you know, you hear like the
houses were going to a haunted house, Wally House, and
I was like, oh no, but I just fell in
love with it. Have you always lived in San Diego then, yeah,
born race, So you basically have had that house in
your backyard this whole time pretty much? Yea, and so,
(19:41):
and that was your bulldog in the background, right, that's
not a ghost here him just a little bit. But
I just wanted to verify. Every time there's a strange
noise while doing this podcast, I get a million comments
on Twitter and Facebook and people want to know what
it was. So just for clarification, do you hear strange
growling and the background and shooties and it's her adorable dog.
(20:03):
But we also did have spirits in the house that
had We had little four legged ones too, so not
only humans, we had pets. So I heard that about
the house. So let's skip ahead to that. Because I'm curious.
People ask me about animal ghosts all the time, and
so I had heard that there was at least a
ghost of one dog in the house. What kind of
(20:23):
experiences were people having with that? So people would come
in the house, especially children, you know, like now more
animals are more open to seeing things. They So I've
had kids come in the house and they're like, oh,
there's a doggie. There's a little doggie, And I was like, oh,
what color is it? Because we have three animals that
(20:44):
people have been seeing. Um, there's Dolly. She was a
little white fox terrier. She's probably the most like people
have gotten pictures of her. She likes to hang out
underneath the dining room. Team, so we have people come in,
always tell them, you know, make sure it take pictures
underneath the dinner table because you might see. So we
have a little white fox terrier. Um, there's a little pug.
(21:06):
People of her like respiratory like breathing, like like your
dog is doing right now. Yeah, and his name Chubby.
It's a little pug. And then there's also a little
black cat named Winks. Oh okay, And now all of
these animals. Are these animals that you guys have documented
actually spent time there over the years, or are these
(21:28):
names that you've given these ghosts They were actually named
by the whalies. Okay, so these are actual animals that
the Whales had in the house. Yes, going through the
history of the Whaley House, it's very tragic, like they're
just a number of tragedies and just kind of back
and forth that went on with that family and Thomas
(21:49):
Whaley in particular. Do you think that's why the house
is so haunted. I believe so. I believe it's one
of the most haunted places in America because even before
the house was built, like he built it himself. That
is actually where the gallows stood, right, And so I
know that he supposedly even witnessed a man being hanged
(22:11):
there before he even bought the property, So he knew
about its history and even thought the house was haunted
after he built it. Yeah. So even the family themselves,
the Whalies, even said the house was haunted. They experienced
footsteps which we still here to this day. Even their
(22:32):
daughter Violet, who committed suicide in the backyard, they could
feel her presence in the house. A lot of people
feel sadness, depression, anxiety, right, Yeah, I mean her death
was especially tragic because you know, the family really they
knew that she was contemplating suicide at that point, and
(22:55):
they had tried to stop her, and it sounds like
she really really went out of her way to kind
hide it from them and see it through. And I
can't imagine just how they felt at that point. Yeah,
that poor feeling. They went through so many tragedies, like
they lost Thomas Jr. When he was only eighteen months
from scarlet fever. He passed with his mom's arms, and
(23:18):
then Violet. It's just so I think it just has
to maybe like the residual energy. And yeah, I mean
I think so for sure. I mean I just when
you go through everything they went through, it just makes
perfect sense how that house could become haunted. Now, let's
talk about experiences people have had their Like, what was
(23:39):
your first experience in the home. So my first experience
this was probably my second week there, and I was
upstairs the San Diego's first commercial stairs. It's probably one
of my favorite rooms. I was sitting in the chair
and I was giving a little tour to a group
of people and my chair really just started like shaking,
(24:01):
like someone was right behind me, just like shaking it.
I didn't I didn't get up. I just sat there
and I was like okay, and the curator who was
in the same room, and he's like, welcome to the
Whale House. First experience. I'm just more sensitive than others.
Everybody that has worked there, they have had experiences. Sometimes
(24:22):
they're just nervous, right, that makes sense. So you said
the curator at that point was like, welcome to the
Whaley House. And so, I mean, I feel like so
many employees there must have had experiences over the years,
maybe even unwittingly. Have you heard of anyone like quitting
their job because of what happened to them there? Oh? Yeah,
(24:43):
especially volunteers too, especially the nonbelievers. There's one volunteer he's like,
I don't believe any of this crap, blah blah blah
bla blah, Like okay, you know, everybody has their own beliefs.
And then he saw something super crazy. I didn't see it.
I'm glad I didn't see it. I don't want to
see it, and I never want to see what He
(25:04):
explained to me, like he just looked freaked out, and
I was like, what happened? Are you okay? He's like no,
How's like tell you what happened? So in the courtroom,
that's probably my least favorite room. I'll tell you my
experience in there, because I disavoid that room. Well, he
saw it was at night, and he said, it looks
(25:25):
like a small, small child and it just looked like
I had like a broken leg and it was like
something sliding across the floor. And then he never came back.
I mean, that would be so tragic to see something
like that. That's one of the weirdest things about the
Whale House to me is all these strange incarnations of
(25:46):
what it was. It was a general story, it was
a courthouse, it was a theater upstairs. Like it just
seemed like Thomas Whaley was always trying to find a
way to use the house to make an income. And
so what happened to you in the courthouse exactly? So
this is probably one of the strangest experiences I've ever had.
(26:07):
So I went into the courtroom on the left hand side.
I probably just walked in there just at the wrong time.
There's I just felt this energy just literally go right
through me and I almost passed out, like lightheaded, dizzy.
(26:29):
I got a little nauseous, and I was like, I
gotta stick outside for a minute. I gotta get some
fresh air. Yeah. So so do you think like when
that kind of thing happens, do you think that you're
having like almost like a panicked reaction to this energy
that you're feeling, or do you think that this whatever
it is is actually like physically making you ill. I
(26:52):
I don't know if it's trying to make me ill.
I think they know that I'm not scared of them,
I think. Because this might sound crazy, well just some
people that I'm sure you understand, Like when I go
into the house, I would say good morning to them,
like I had. This sounds weird, but I kind of
had like a little relationship with the spirits there because
(27:14):
I would communicate with them, like talk to them out loud.
But I don't know if it made me ill or
if it was trying to get my attention, or it
just and just went right through me right exactly. I mean,
it sounds like a lot of the experiences that people
have there are I mean, obviously people have a lot
of like kind of benign type experiences where they see
(27:35):
something or they hear something, but there are these kind
of more powerful, almost physical experiences that people have. In
my experience, when that happens, it's usually someone who's really
trying to get a person's attention or really trying to
get some sort of message across. Do you feel like
these spirits at the house are unsettled in any way,
(27:56):
or that there's something that they need accomplished still in
their world? I think so, especially one of the men
that was executed there, or I mean, we don't know
how many hangings happened on that property, and there could
have been a lot more deaths on the property that
we don't know that weren't documented or written down in
(28:16):
their diaries, right right, I think I covered at least
five or six in the history, but it does sound
like there could have been more. For sure. There is
one that was brought up. I don't know if you
have any other information on this, but there was supposedly
a little girl who potentially had passed away on the property.
It was like an accident, but I wasn't able to
(28:37):
verify that, so someone made up that story. They said
that she died in the backyard from like a clothes
line and none that just spread like wildfire. Okay, that's
what I thought, and that's what we found as well.
You know, I always want to ask because maybe some
new information came to light since we researched this. I
feel like you don't need to start rumors about the
way the house. I feel like there's plenty of tragedy
(28:59):
to go around. You don't need to make up anymore. Yeah,
there's enough going on in that house exactly. Okay, So, now,
what kind of experience is like if you're just a
visitor and you're going to the Wayley House to visit,
what kind of experiences do you think people could expect
to have. So a lot of people they would come
to me, they're like, I feel super sad, I feel depressed.
(29:19):
I've had people just break down and cry. Right upstairs
is extremely heavy for me. And I believe Violet was
on suicide Watch upstairs right and their sun pass away
upstairs as well. So I mean, that's just like a
daytime moment, like you can just walk through and you
can feel it. Now, you talked about what happened to
(29:42):
you in the courthouse. What other experiences of note have
you had or other people had that you think are
extra powerful. This is an experience I haven't really shared
with a lot of people because it did startle me
a little bit. So I was giving a tour downstairs.
We were standing right between the study in the parlor,
(30:03):
right where the archway is. We're approximately where the gallows did.
Thomas really felt that we don't know why. Only he
could tell us why. So I was standing there talking
and I guess said, you have a red it looks
like rope fibers around your neck, like you have scratch
(30:25):
around the neck. And I was like what. And then
I looked in the mirror and it looked like rope
fibers around my neck and I was like, oh my god.
And then I had step outside for a minute after
giving that little tour. My boss was like, oh my gosh, like,
we haven't seen that such a long time. It doesn't
happen a lot. Oh, so this is something that has
happened to people before, and unbeknownst to you, I'm assuming
(30:46):
at that time until your old boss let you know. Yes,
and people are like, oh my god, why are you
still working here? And I was like, I think they're
just trying to get my attention. I'm like, okay, you
have my attention. How many people were like how can
you possibly work there? Oh? Tons of people ask me
like why do you work here? Why do you like it?
(31:07):
It's just like I'm like, I guess I'm just weird,
Like I just like not weird. But um, I don't know.
I mean, I'm sure that there are plenty of people
who work there who don't really care about the ghost aspect.
They're just there for historic purposes. But you know, I
think there are some people that it just takes. It
(31:28):
takes a special kind of person who's almost there for
the ghosts, but in kind of like a compassionate way
or just kind of a you know, you want to
make sure that their story is being told or they're
being treated respectfully. Like I start feeling almost protective of
ghosts in particularly historic places. And like you said, you
go in and you say good morning, and you say
(31:50):
hello to them and things, and like do you think
that's kind of just part of your personality. I think so, Yeah.
And I just have like this unique on with the
house and the spirits there, even like on their anniversaries
like Wenny anniversary or their birthday, Uh, bring like flowers
(32:10):
or cupcakes or something, just to just something for them,
and then for the coworkers as well. Yeah, I mean,
and I think that's important to kind of keep recognizing
those moments to them, and you know, it lets them
know that you care. And I think it also kind
of forms like almost a friendship or a bond with
(32:31):
them and full disclosure for people listening, like this is
one of the rare episodes of Haunted Road where I've
not investigated the Whale House. I have been to San
Diego many times, and the one time I was like,
I'm going to go toward the Whale House, I showed
up and they were doing some sort of renovation and
I was unable to go inside. So I was able
to see it, but I wasn't able to visit. And
(32:53):
It's on my bucket list, And so I'm kind of
living vicariously through you and your experience is right now
because it is just it's an unusual situation, especially because I,
you know, lived in California almost my entire life. How
did I not ever set foot in that house? So
I feel like it's destiny that I'm supposed to go
there at a certain point, you know, like there's gonna
(33:14):
be like the perfect reason for me to go there.
Maybe we'll go there with Kindred or something. But I
do feel like just reading through the history and everything
that has gone on there that there has to be
some sort of unresolved issues happening. And I'm just so curious.
Have you gotten any signs or is anybody investigated and
got any e v p s or anything to kind
(33:35):
of clue you in on what they might want or need.
We have gotten e v P s. I feel like
there's so many there's so many spirits in that house
other than the whales. Yeah, I mean it sounds like
a lot of the executions that took place there might
have a lot to do with it too. Yeah. I
(33:56):
was upstairs. I almost got pushed down the steps. I
felt hand on my back, so I don't know if
that was one of the gentlemen that was executed there,
and he was just like and then I literally said
out loud, that's not okay, do not push me. That's
definitely not okay. Yeah, I'm like, no, I don't want
to go down the stairs. You don't want to become
a spirit at the way the house. So, I mean,
(34:18):
kind of along those lines, do you feel like any
of the activity there is dangerous? Um, it's a possibility.
Like a lot of people are like, that's scary that
you almost got pushed down the steps, you got repe
fiber on your neck, and you still worked there, Like, yes, yes,
(34:38):
I do. I just love that house. Yeah yeah, I
mean that does sound kind of aggressive, I mean, and
um a little bit. Yeah. And you know, obviously we
were talking before we started recording about like Dave Trader's
experience there when they were filming Holser files, and you know,
he literally got like pushed or shoved, and so it
just makes you wondering. And again, it's around that area
(34:59):
where the gallows supposedly stood. And I find it interesting too.
You know that Thomas Whalley literally watched, you know, someone
be hanged on that property and then went ahead and
just decided to build a house there anyway. I mean,
I'm sure a lot of people would, but you know,
he knew full well. The house actually kind of fell
into disrepair a few times before it was you know,
(35:22):
it kept being kind of resurrected and brought back to life.
Why do you think people have this fascination with the
Whaley family, Like, why do you think that this is
such an important historical site? I think because it's it
was the first brick mansion built in San Diego at
that time. People are just fascinated by the history of
(35:46):
the family and paranormal phenomena that happens there. And people
wanna see the house, come in here, their stories here
about their lives, and they really want to experience and
see things. Yeah. Yeah, it usually happens when you least
expected to. Yeah. Do you guys have like regular paranormal
(36:09):
investigations or ghost tours or is it just open for
daytime tours. It's usually open for daytime tours, okay, And
so people don't really investigate that much there, do they?
Or not that much? No? Okay. Now, is there anything
in particular that raises the activity level that you've you've noticed?
(36:29):
Is there anything people do or anything that happens that
causes activity to spike? M hm. So if you like
provoke them, or let's say people come to the house
and they're rowdy or being a little disrespectful the walies,
they will set the fire alarms off and then yeah,
(36:50):
and then everybody's escorted out. So the way it's like, Okay,
you're being disrespected on our house, you know, Okay, time
to go, time to leave. I love that they figured
that out there, Like, oh, if we do this thing,
this will make everyone leave immediately. That is wild. I'm
actually surprised more ghosts haven't caught onto that, right, And
I'm like, I don't call them. I want that want
(37:12):
someone coming in my house being disrespectful? Well, no, of course,
And like you know, I always wonder, like what is
the by product that ultimately when you go into a
home and you just keep talking about the bad things
that happened over and over again. I always try to
stress that in some of these historic locations to myself
that I have to tell myself, like, don't define this
(37:33):
place by the bad things that happened. That's not fair
to the people who were here before that. Yes, bad
things happened, but there are also probably plenty of very
very good things too, you know, holidays and gatherings and
weddings and births and like all these wonderful things. And
we try to talk about that when we investigate, too,
and it gets a lot of responses, and so I wonder,
(37:53):
you know, sometimes you have these locations where people come
in and they just keep talking about the bad stuff
that happened, and I could see them getting kind of
riled up by that. Oh yeah, yeah, They'll be like,
come on, go shure yourself or you know. I'm like, oh,
you know, and I'm very protective of that house and
I'm like, oh, you need turn it down a little notch.
They're not going to be happy. Yeah. Yeah, And I
(38:15):
think that's one of the things we really strive for.
I'm sure you understand where you kind of have to
remind people that goes we're people too in theory, and
they're not, you know, here to perform for you and
do tricks like you know that there's probably a very
real reason that they're still here and you could find
yourself in their shoes one day, So maybe be a
little more respectful, you know. So now I know that
(38:37):
you're you're not at the Whale House any longer. But
if people do want to visit, what do they need
to do. It's back open for tours now, right, Yes,
So old Town Trolley Tours has the house now they're
running it. Yeah. Oh great, So they just need to
go to Old Town Trolley Tours and connect with them
and they can take a tour of the house, I believe, so, yes, yeah, okay, perfect,
(38:59):
And in the meantime, people will can find you on
the USS Midway. Okay. So it sounds like I'll need
to do an episode on the Midway and we'll talk
about that. Now that's a place I have visited and
it is really cool. So yeah, good choices, good choices
you're making so well, you know what, Shooty, thank you
so much for relaying your experiences. I appreciate it. I
(39:20):
find the Whaley House to be super fascinating. I think
a big part of that is because I have not
really been able to go in there yet, and so
I'm so curious. You're lucky to be able to do
what you did for so long, and it makes me
happy that you're still really you know, speaking up for
the house. Oh yeah, that house. It'll always have a
special place to me, like in my heart. So I'll
probably be back there one day. Oh great, Well, thank
(39:43):
you so much, Thank you so much for having me.
The Whaley House is now officially calling to me. All
this history, lore and reports of paranormal activity has my
interest intensely paked. Having spent most of my life in California,
it's wild to me that I never investigated at the
(40:03):
Whaley House. But maybe fate had other plans. Maybe I
just wasn't ready. So please, if you do happen to visit,
reach out to me on social media and let me
know how it went. If you get a whiff of
French perfume or see a fleeting vision of Violet, I
wouldn't be surprised one bit. I'm Amy Bruney and this
(40:23):
was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is a production of I
Heart Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Mankey. The
podcast is written and hosted by Amy Bruney. Executive producers
(40:44):
include Aaron Manky, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. The show
is produced by rima Ill Kali and Trevor Young. Taylor
Haggerdorn is the show's researcher. For more podcasts from I
Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. M
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