April 23, 2025 • 40 mins
In the season six finale of Haunted Road, we travel to St Albans Sanatorium. History suggests that even though doctors and nurses meant well, patients were subjected to barbaric treatments that often ended in death.
Special Guest: Steve Dills
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of iHeartRadio and Grim
and Mild from Aaron Manky.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Hello and welcome to the season six finale of Haunted Road.
I want to remind you to please stay subscribed and
keep telling your friends about Haunted Road in the meantime
while we get more episodes in order, please come see
me in person. Head to amybrune dot com to see
if I'll be in your neck of the woods anytime soon.
(00:34):
I've got a massive fall tour in the works, Walking
with Ghosts, True Crime Hauntings with Amy Bruney, and it
covers some of my most intense cases and evidence with
a true crime spin to each. Plus I bring some
of my favorite haunted artifacts along so you can get
to know them personally. And of course, please join us
at the Paranormal Circle, a place where you can get
(00:55):
weird with a lot of other ghost nerds like me.
We do live streaming investigations, we do interviews with some
of my favorite paranormal friends like Josh Gates, Adam Barry,
Chip Coffee, and Moore. There's twenty four to seven webcams
and a lot more. Again, head to Amy brune dot
com to join in all the spooky fun. Now Haunted
Roadies enjoy the season six finale. Years ago, I was
(01:21):
investigating an old nursing home. I was sitting in the darkness,
peering down a long hallway, waiting for something, anything, to happen.
I'd heard noises at the end of the hall, and
I was determined to see if they were ghostly or
some sort of critter that had gotten in the space.
And that's when I saw it. The darkness seemed to
(01:43):
move on one side of the hall, the entire darkness.
It stirred a bit, and then a large portion of
what I assumed to be shadows broke loose from the
black space, and I could see it was humanoid in nature,
and it was crawling. As quick as I could register
what I was seeing, that same crawling thing scurried from
(02:06):
the floor, up the wall, across the ceiling, and disappeared
into a gaping chunk of the ceiling that had long
fallen and rotted away. I'd seen what we call a crawler,
and the place where headed this week is notorious for them.
Join me as we head to Saint Albans Sanatorium. I'm
(02:29):
Amy Bruney and this is Haunted Road, a pair of
stately brick buildings designed in the classic Revival style tower
on a bluff that looms over the New River in Radford, Virginia.
The two structures stand very near each other, just sixty
(02:50):
feet apart, while an eight foot wide corridor connects the two.
They're each two stories tall with dingy windows looking out
over the neatly mowed lawns, but the interior of each
building is anything but tidy or well maintained. The structures
are currently undergoing renovations, but if you walk a little
(03:10):
past the areas that have been restored, you'll find passageways
where the bluish white paint peels off crumbling walls. In
some places, large patches of plaster are visible. Even beneath
the decay, you can see hints of old glory. The
remains of an old grand staircase and a former sun
(03:30):
room still stand, the ladder of which is still brightly
lit thanks to the overhead skylights. There's even a modest
underground bowling alley with two lanes. The facility, known as
Saint Alban's Sanatorium, was originally constructed as a private prep
school for boys in eighteen ninety two. At the time, Radford,
(03:51):
Virginia was going through a period of transformation after numerous
Civil War battles had swept through the region, leaving destruction
in their While the town had only been formally incorporated
for less than a decade at that point, it had
also already changed.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Its name once.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
While Radford was redefining itself, the new school catered to
its wealthier residents. Once Saint Albans first opened its doors,
it had the capacity to serve fifty students, and the
inaugural class had thirty nine. Interestingly, the school only had
five teachers, counting the headmaster, who also owned the institution,
(04:30):
and almost all of them were completely inexperienced in education.
In fact, the headmaster was a lot more interested in
developing the athletics program than he was in academics. According
to Anne Stuart Beckett's report for the United States Department
of the Interior, the school had one of the top
football and baseball programs in all of the South during
(04:53):
his tenure. This was a big draw for prospective students. However,
in the early nineteen hundred that headmaster sold the institution
to pursue more profitable opportunities. Sadly again, this is according
to Anne Beckett, the new owners squandered the school's resources
and good name. It soon became an open secret that
(05:16):
the students didn't respect anyone. Beckett reported that they were
verbally abusive to their professors, locals around town, and each other.
They drank to excess and destroyed property. In the yearbooks.
Whichever students wrote the copy openly bragged about beating up
their classmates. They also called them rude names in print.
(05:37):
In light of all of that, it was almost inevitable
that the local families would find other places to send
their children rather than send them to Saint Albans with
its bad reputation. Enrollment numbers declined year after year, until
finally the school had to be shuttered. After several years
spent sitting empty, the facilities sold again in nineteen fifteen.
(06:00):
This time around, the buyer was a man named doctor J. C.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
King.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
He had no background in the academics, but unlike some
of the former owners, he also had no interest in
owning or operating a school. King had previously worked in
a mental health institution, and after he acquired Saint Albans,
he converted it into a facility he called Saint Albans Sanatorium.
(06:24):
While the hospital was originally intended to focus on nervous
and emotional disorders, over time their mission expanded. At various periods,
they treated substance use disorders, alcohol abuse, and physical conditions
like syphilis. Doctor King, who lived on site, even provided
(06:44):
emergency medical care and delivered babies for locals who sought
his expertise. But in the beginning, there was a great
demand specifically for mental health treatment, so much so that
when the sanatorium first formerly own, opened its doors on
January sixteenth, nineteen sixteen, there were already four prospective patients
(07:06):
lined up outside. Those residents and the later ones found
a warm, welcoming home. In their book Haunted Asylums, Prisons
and Sanatoriums Inside Abandoned Institutions for the Crazy, criminal and Quarantined,
authors James Davis and Samuel Queen described the conditions in
very positive terms. They said that Saint Albans ran an
(07:30):
on site farm which provided fresh produce for the residents.
Their go to remedies included rest and relaxation, games of
croquet and tennis, and even massages. This was not the
norm when it came to mental health treatment in the
nineteen tens, so it's no surprise that patients flocked to
Saint Albans. Unfortunately, people didn't understand mental illness well in
(07:54):
that time, and this meant the sanatorium also prescribed treatments
that we'd consider barbe barrack today. It doesn't seem that
the doctors were acting out of malice or cruelty, merely ignorance.
According to the Roanoke Times, Saint Albans was the first
hospital in all of Virginia to adopt the then cutting
(08:15):
edge practice known as subcoma insulin shock therapy. The theory
behind it was that some mental health conditions could be
cured if the patients spent a few hours in a coma,
But the process the doctors used to induce these commas
was very dangerous and sometimes fatal, and sadly, even for
(08:35):
those patients who survived, the remedy was frequently ineffective. Still,
more and more patients checked in, and Saint Albans had
to add new beds to keep up with demand. They
built new additions in nineteen twenty six, then again in
nineteen fifty and once more between nineteen fifty four and
(08:55):
nineteen fifty five. In the midst of all this construction,
in nineteen fifty one, the sanatorium's owner, Doctor King, passed away,
his son, James took over. An article with the Martinsville
Bulletin reported that around this time the sanatorium experienced a
one hundred percent labor force turnover. Every single person who'd
(09:19):
worked under doctor King's supervision was either fired, laid off,
or resigned due to poor pay and a heavy workload.
There were simply too many patients for all of the
nurses and doctors to give them the care they needed,
and the staff was getting burnt out. James approved better
pay to try to stem the exodus, and after that
(09:40):
the hospital continued to operate for decades. It continued expanding
and adding new buildings until it finally shut its doors
for good in nineteen ninety four. Originally there were plans
to demolish it, but throughout the two thousands and early
twenty tens, local activists fought to preserve the facility. This
(10:01):
was in part due to its historical significance, but also
because by this point Saint Albans had earned a reputation
for being haunted. In fact, according to some Saint Albans
was called the most haunted location on the East Coast
after it secured a spot on the National Register of
Historic Places. In twenty twenty, Saint Albans became an historical
(10:25):
museum which also hosted ghost tours. Visitors who come on
these tours report all of the typical sides you see
in any haunted location. There are noises that don't have
a clear source, disembodied footsteps, voices, and even sounds of
merriment like laughter, singing, and whistling. A cold spot may
suddenly descend and then disperse just as quickly. Electronic devices
(10:49):
lose their charges rapidly. Guests get the sense that they're
being watched and might see objects move on their own.
As for the spirits that are thought to dwell there,
they have been known to be aggressive. Multiple guests came
away from their tours with deep scratch marks. Others got
burned so severe they left welts. There are several specific
(11:12):
specters who make regular appearances at Saint Albans, especially in
the boiler Room and the Bowling Alley, both of which
are hotspots for sightings. In the boiler room, female visitors
often feel as though some entity they can't see as
groping them or touching their hair. Much of the activity
in this room is attributed to a spirit that has
(11:35):
been nicknamed Smoky. It's thought to not be human, and
guests often leave it lit cigarettes as a sort of
peace offering. As for the basement, there's quite a bit
of debate about who exactly dwells there.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
One story goes.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
That a young woman was admitted to Saint Albans, then
passed away there the ghost of her daughter, a young girl,
now roams the basement searching for her departed mother. Other
account says the ghost is a woman named Gina renee Hall.
She was murdered in nineteen eighty by a man who
gave her a ride home from a nightclub. Her body
(12:09):
was never found, even after her killer was caught and convicted.
Some think her murderer might have burned it in the
Saint Alban's boiler, or he might have stashed her remains
away somewhere else on the property. Supposedly, if you say
Gina's name out loud while in the Bowling Alley, a
mist will appear before your eyes, as though you've summoned her.
(12:30):
The Bowling Alley is also home to a shadow figure
with striking red eyes, but ghost hunters don't need to
restrict themselves to the Bowling Alley, boiler room and basement
to have an encounter. Reports say a woman's spirit wanders
Saint Alban's halls carrying a baby.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
She seems to be.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
In her twenties or thirties and often wears a white
dress that looks like something from the late eighteen hundreds.
Typically she'll appear under the main staircase's archway. There are
also reports of a dark haired young girl, and one
ghost is said to be aggressive, with men rushing at
them when they encounter it. One of the most well
(13:10):
known spirits is a woman named Rebecca. It said that
she was pregnant while she was living at the hospital,
although accounts vary as to whether she was already expecting
when she checked in or if she conceived the child
during her stay. Either way, the baby didn't make it again.
There doesn't seem to be much consensus about what exactly
(13:32):
happened to it. Some stories say it was a stillbirth,
others say a miscarriage. There are even rumors which were
reported by Jody Arneson on the mid Atlantic Day Trips
website that sanatorium employees forced Rebecca to have an abortion
she did not want. Arneson also reported that after the
child passed, a heartbroken Rebecca kept its remains in ajar.
(13:55):
She treated it like a real living baby, rocking it
and singing Lalla. Eventually, the staff decided this was unhealthy
and they took the jar away from Rebecca to bury it.
Unable to deal with her loss, Rebecca marched into the
bathroom right next door to her room. There she took
her own life. She was one of several patients who
(14:17):
died by suicide in that very bathroom. Estimates put the
number at anywhere between three and twelve people. Today, visitors
who set foot in that bathroom or Rebecca's bedroom often
report that they feel an overwhelming sadness. Some burst into
tears without fully understanding why. There are also often sightings
of a pair of men, Jacob and Donald. It's unclear
(14:41):
who Jacob and Donald were in life, and there's no
historical record of either one, but there are various stories
that tried to explain their backgrounds. One goes that Jacob
was a young child who grew up in the sanatorium
after his parents gave him up. Donald was a pedophile
who worked at Saint all doing odd jobs and handiwork.
(15:02):
It's said that one night Donald sexually assaulted Jacob, then
killed the boy. After the deed was done, Now his
spirit tries to recreate the crime, coaxing male visitors into
his room and then into his closet. Evil Ogolville's article
to Catch a Preternatural Predator Donald of Saint Alban's Sanatorium, Radford,
(15:23):
Virginia suggests that Jacob's spirit is unable to move on
because Donald is still keeping him there within his grasp.
Another variation on this story goes that Donald didn't actually
kill Jacob, but he was falsely accused of the murder
after the young boy turned up dead. In this version,
Donald was an innocent gay man blame fell on him
(15:44):
solely due to the widespread homophobic attitudes of the time,
But there is absolutely no historical documentation to back any
of these stories up. Regardless of where the truth lies,
it's clear that the halls of Saint Alban's Sanatorium are
marked by sadness. Even though the staff seemed to want
the best for their patients during the hospital's operation, they
(16:07):
couldn't be everything they needed. Every human life has a
certain amount of tragedy, and when you exacerbate that with
mental illness and a poor understanding of how to treat it,
it seems inevitable that some of that pain will linger permanently.
So today I am talking to Steve Dills. He is
a paranormal investigator and researcher who has spent quite a
(16:30):
bit of time at Saint Albans and he has some
of the wildest stories I have heard on Haunted Road.
Yet that is coming up after the break. All right,
I am now joined by Steve Dills, who is a
paranormal investigator and researcher and has investigated and visited Saint
(16:55):
Albans many times. So Steve, why don't you tell me
what team you're from and what it is you do
exact Hey?
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Sure? So again, my name is Steve Dill's.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I am the director of Transcend Paranormal or a paranormal
team that operates in central Virginia and we do quite
a bit of traveling, but we also partner with historical
locations throughout Virginia and surrounding states and we host you know,
ghost tours, public investigations, lectures, presentations, hold nine yards and
one hundred percent of the proceeds goes directly to the
(17:25):
historic locations that we're working with.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Oh, I love that so much. Yeah, we talk about
that a lot on the show. Here about that really
lovely byproduct of paranormal research and investigation that sometimes we
can actually help some of these historical locations financially. You know,
regardless of how you feel about ghosts and hauntings or
if you believe in them or not, there are some
(17:49):
really great work that comes out of this. So I
really admire that. That's really awesome.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah, and it's it's a really cool way to kind
of I guess it's a different lens that you get
to explore and kind of pack history. So it's kind
of fun to flip something on its side and take
a look at it from a different angle.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Yeah, And I mean, seriously, Virginia, You've got a lot
of history going on there, so you're.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
You're in an area right for research. I love it.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Full disclosure for my listeners and for you Steep, because
I did not tell you this, but I am currently
recording this. We're on vacation. Anyone who follows me online
knows I'm here a lot, but we're on vacation at
Disney World, which is lovely. But that also means that
there are ferries.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
In the background.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
And if you hear a horn, it's not a ghost
horn like a it's a water taxi horn. And if
you hear voices, it's probably housekeeping. So I know sometimes
people hear voices in the background when I'm recording at home,
which I do not have an explanation for, but this
I do.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
But anyways, we're in line for the Haunted Mansion right now.
I may have to leave.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
I might have to go ride the ride really fast
if only, oh my gosh, I would be amazing. But
later today that is on our agenda. Anyways, how did
you become involved with Saint Albans or how did you
come to investigate there?
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Gosh, I actually went up there just for an event
one year, and I heard, you know, I heard a
bunch about Saint Albans. You gotta go, you gotta go.
It's you know, it's one of the most honed locations
on the East Coast. I'm like, all right, well it's
you know, it's about a two hour three hour driver.
So and just decided to like okay doing it. And
(19:27):
after that the first time I was, I was pretty hooked.
And so, you know, we we ended up booking Saint
Albans privately a couple of times and then met the
teams that kind of help and and focus a lot
of their time and energy and volunteer at Saint Albans,
and I don't know, just became friends. And so we
(19:47):
go up there every so often and try to help
and support them with their events. And then a lot
of times we still you know, rented out ourselves because
I don't know, I love Saint Albans. It's it's something
that just keeps bringing you back.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
When did you know, like when you what was the
first time that you really had some sort of experience
there or vibe there that you knew like this is
something special, There's something definitely going on here.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Like the very first time that we we rented out
the building, very first time that we went and investigated,
we were actually on the you know, like the tour.
So when you go and investigate Saint Albans, first off,
they will they will all for a tour, so you can,
you know, they'll show you kind of where all the
(20:32):
different locations in the building is where everything you know
how to navigate. But Saint Albans is a maze, hands down.
I have heard people tell me that they feel like
the walls move and you know, the walk run way
and turn around and they're completely lost.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Like a labyrinth situation.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
It is.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
It is massive, absolutely massive. But the very first time
that we went, we were we were taking a tour
so that we wouldn't get lost. We did anyways, and
we were on the grand staircase walking up the steps
and we didn't know this at the time, but going
back and listening to the audio recordings, we recorded the
(21:14):
sound of this woman singing clear as day, to the
point that I almost skipped it, thinking that it was
like one of the team members. But we had heard
stories about Saint Albans about singing and whistling and all
these sorts of things, so we decided that we would
not do that specifically, just in case we caught anything
(21:36):
like that smart and it was, I mean, even to
this day, it's one of the clearest EVPs that I've
got recorded And wow, I knew, I mean, And that
was just the first thing we got.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
We got two other pieces of class A EVPs.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
One in what was referred to as Jacob's room and
another one immediately outside of it. And even in those
this entity individual said I am Jacob and then oh my,
poor little Jacob, and oh my gosh, just listening to those,
(22:14):
you know, you kind of have like the hair raise
on your back because it wasn't expected. This was this
was just during the tour. We hadn't even started investigating,
so it was it was. It was pretty cool, and
it's just kept us coming back every time.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Wow, I have loved that.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
And so Jacob's room seems to be of particular interests,
Like who do you think Jacob is?
Speaker 2 (22:39):
That is a great question and and I'm not sure
if I'm I'm terribly in the popular I guess belief
because I have this this strong feeling. So so as
the story goes, right, let's let's step back and talk
about who is Jacob? And right, So, so as the
story goes, Jacob is young boy that has abandoned right
(23:03):
at the asylum doors, right, and so the staff decide,
and so it was a boy's uh school at one point,
but when when Jacob is dropped off, it is not
a boys school. It is the asylum, and the staff decide,
you know what, you know, what's a really great idea.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
Let's bring this young little boy in. Let's give him
a bedroom.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
And let him stay with us, you know, instead of like, oh,
I don't know, let's let's like get him to the
right you know, organization, and make sure that he gets
a loving family and he's adopted.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
No, no, no, let's leave raise him.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
In his sanitorium.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
It this is gonna be a great idea. Let's raise
him here in this insane asylum. Perfect idea.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
And so so they gave him this room, right, and
he he lives there for a little bit in this
in in his room, and h one night the staff
forget to lock his door or one of the patients
finds keys somehow gets into Jacob's room. And I'm gonna
skip kind of some of the nastier side of this,
(24:03):
but Jacob ends up passing away, right, And so when
when teams go in and investigate, right, they focus on
this story that Jacob is this young boy and you know,
he was murdered and all these sorts of things. And
you walk into Jacob's room and there's a bunch of
(24:24):
toys on the ground, there's a bunch of kids books,
so on and so forth. Looking back historically, myself and
a number of other folks have not been able to
find any actual proof that a young boy named Jacob
was ever at the asylum in any capacity. Yeah, and
so to me it's hard because I feel like if
(24:45):
there was a young boy there, there'd be some sort
of documentation.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Right, there'd be some men in a newspaper article something,
because that's very interesting, just raising a little boy in
that situation.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
Yeah, it's like, it's not even heart it's just like
it's weird.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
And so my thought is that maybe Jacob isn't necessarily
a little boy in the sense of age, but it's
somebody that was a patient that maybe had split personality,
multiple personality, and Jacob was one of those personalities. This
(25:25):
young boy that is is a victim. And to me,
you know, that makes a lot more sense with the
history of the building and the timeline of Jacob being
dropped off, is maybe this was an individual that one
of their personalities was Jacob. This young boy like to
(25:45):
play with toys, you know, those sorts of things that
to me makes a lot more sense than a little
boy being dropped off.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yeah, that does.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Now, what do you think of maybe the potential that
this this Jacob identity has been so kind of so built, right,
so built and accepted by investigators and they talk about
him constantly. Do you think it's kind of it could
be like kind of a Philip experiment moment where they've
kind of spoken Jacob into being like he's kind of
what there's some sort of agrigor tulpa situation going on.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I could see that too.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
Hundred percent absolutely.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
And then that's the other That's the other piece that
that about that too, is is so many people focus
on that story, right, Like you said, so many people everybody.
If you just google Saint alban Sanatorium, I will, I
will guarantee you you'll find something about Jacob immediately.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yeah, And and that story, like you said, it's just
it's just so widely spread and passed around that I
agree with you. I think that there is a very
strong opportunity that this could be something very similar to
the Philip experiment. So many people are talking about it,
and and especially you go in and you focus all
(26:59):
that energy about you know, Jacob Jacob, Jacob Jacob. I
think that it very well, could be something that we
have as a byproduct of investigating.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Yea, And they're bringing him toys and gifts. That's so
interesting And it's funny too because there are probably you know,
there are I'm sure there's no shortage of spirits there.
And can you imagine being one of the other ghosts
and you're like, okay, enough about Jacob here I am,
I'm right here.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
You know, I don't get toys exactly.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
It's like it's like the next room over and it's
just come on, we're a little spirit. You're just kind
of like peeking out around the door. Anybody want to
come into it?
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Seriously?
Speaker 3 (27:42):
Well, I find that to be very interesting and so
all right, so you've got great EVPs. You have these
interactions and these stories like have you ever seen anything there? Like,
have you ever seen an apparition or any sort of
light normalist? Okay, what what was the most striking thing
that you've seen there?
Speaker 2 (27:57):
So so this is not something I mean, I've seen things,
but one of the most interesting things was actually a
buddy of mine, Alan Marston, and Alan lives pretty close there,
so he's up there all the time, and I want
to share what he experienced and saw because Alan's like
(28:17):
a brother and me and I absolutely trust this man
my life. So so Alan was up there, he had
gone up and he was helping them, you know, clean
up and work and all that sort of stuff. And
so he stayed with some of his family and investigated
one evening and scene all beens. You know, first off,
(28:38):
it's it's a paranormal research center. Folks can can rent
it out, but they closed down kind of during the fall,
like September October, and they have a haunted house that
operates throughout the entire building. And so this is a
little bit before Alan is investigating. He's walking through the
(28:59):
building and he had just passed the Grand staircase and
there is a for those of that have been to
Saint Albans, you walk past the Grand Staircase, there's a
smaller stairwell on the left hand side that's kind of
towards what is referred to as the King Center. And
(29:20):
Alan's walking by and he kind of shines his flashlight
to look down the steps, and as he does, there
is a man standing there in a black kind of
like robe and a pig mask. No way like straight
out of Saw, you know, and Alan looks directly. This
(29:45):
person makes eye contact with them, and Alan says he
could see the fear in this man's eyes that like
he was startled that he was looking at Alan and
Alan and was looking at him. And so whomever this
was in this pig mask immediately turns to go like
(30:09):
down the steps and then disappears.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
It disappears in front of him, like you can see.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
In front, right in front of Alan just just disappears gone.
And I I mean, I don't know, there's so many
creepy aspects of this, right, You've got You've got Alan there,
and he looks down the stairwell right like the creepy
stairs down and there's a man walking up. And if
(30:37):
you've ever watched Saw, you're like, oh god, you know,
pig Mask bad news.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
I haven't watched it because I am terrified of scary movies,
but I know the image watch it, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
I mean it's it's incredibly gory.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, it's the gory ones.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
I don't really like yeah, no, no, no, no, anyway, I agree,
I digress.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I do that a lot.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Uh So, So he looks down and he sees, you know,
this person like, to me, it is it is one
of the most interesting things and experiences to dissect, right,
because Alan is startled to see this full body apparision,
this figure walking up the steps. But the fact that
he makes eye contact with with whatever this is and
(31:23):
it itself is also startled, I think is just absolutely
interesting because we have this this idea that ghosts, spirit entities,
whatever you want to refer to the matters are kind
of like omnipotent, like they they they know what you're doing, right,
They're like Santa Claus, and you know, if they're walking
(31:44):
up the steps, they're they're aware that you're up there.
You know, their intent is to do either whatever they're
doing or to secure you.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
But the fact that whatever this was was was just
as startled as Alan to me is very very interesting
because the challenges, you know, kind of like the basic
you know, ghost trope that we've kind of pushed out there.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
Yeah, and I love it.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Because it's like, was this individual actually, you know, if
we if we go with the basic our ghosts stead people,
was this somebody that had passed on and they had
been part of the haunted house experience at one point
and they're kind of you know, reliving out, you know,
some fun piece of this. But then if so, why
(32:28):
were they startled to see Alan? That would that would
suggest that this wasn't just you know, something occurring, but
this was an intelligent experience.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
So so is.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
There something more where we kind of butted up maybe
against another you know, another universe or another reality and
we just you know, Alan just got a perfect view
right through a window and it just just so happened
to startle both of them.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Yeah, that's a lot to unpack, you know. It's just
like just the sheer like appearance of this form, obviously
on its own, is very strange. Makes sense for the
time of year and what's going on there, but not
in the sense that there should be anyone there. And
then yeah, it does bring to mind like is this
someone coming back and like reliving their haunted house?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
I'm is there?
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Did they did they die in the pig mask? Do
they like wearing the you know what?
Speaker 4 (33:20):
I mean?
Speaker 1 (33:20):
So many questions.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
That that's so, that is a really wild story. People
must see all sorts of apparitions there, like they must.
I mean, what do you think are the most common
reports other than pig man oh Man?
Speaker 2 (33:35):
So so in terms of the most common and I
will tell you I've seen personally. I've seen this thing
numerous times is what is referred to as the crawler.
And I'm sure Amy you've you've heard of references of
these things.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Oh, I've seen them, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
And it's it's just this this humanoid kind of figure
that is almost like a shadow and crawling on all fours,
on the floor, on the walls, on the ceilings, you
name it. It just it just loves us to get everything.
I have seen this down hallways. I've seen this thing
walk past me. I've seen whatever this thing is probably
(34:16):
seven feet from me crawling out of a room in
drunk tank, as I referred to it as. And it's
it's creepy. Actually, I actually watched this thing and it
was kind of like it had a gate of like
a cat. Yeah, and it just kind of like crawled
out of one of the one of the rooms and
(34:37):
and just kind of scuttled down the hallway. And there
were three of us that were standing there watching this thing.
I ran after it because I'm full of bad decisions,
and so did one of my other teammates. My third
teammate decided that was enough and he started going the
opposite direction, but the crawler is probably one of the
(34:59):
most prolific.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
You know, you'll look.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Down a hallway and you'll just see, you know, this
this silhouette for like a brief second of something on
all fours and folks have reported seeing that time and
time again.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, you know, it's funny. Those seem to appear in
that setting very often. Like that sort of setting.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
I don't know what it is about sanatoriums, asylums, prisons,
you name it, Like they seem to spawn that type
of apparition or anomaly, and I don't know if it's
whatever energy there was or whatever happened there before creates
that type of energy.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
Emotion, you know, the emotional drain the energy.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Yeah, it's just really interesting.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
And then again kind of going back like talking about Jacob,
like people start to expect to see it, and like
I've investigated people where you know, the crawlers as we
call them, have been seen, and they just fixate on that.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
They are terrified to see that.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
So I think they sit in the dark and they're
just like, of all the things here, I could see
a crawler, you know, and it just defies all logic
when you do actually see one.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Yeah, because it's like like you said, it's it always
seems to be these like creepy like I've never heard
of somebody being like, oh yeah, is that the haunted Airbnb?
And or like the haunted bed and breakfast and I
saw a crawler come out we were eating breakfast.
Speaker 4 (36:23):
You know, it's always like oh.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Wait, it's always in the extreme responts and and like
you said, I think people do fixate on it and
and they get terrified. And I sometimes I think, and
I know we're completely tangent right now on on the
the prolif experience there, but I do think Saint Albans
kind of gives you what you want. Yeah, you know,
(36:47):
in a sense like if you're if you're going in
there and you're trying to have an experience or you're
trying to see something.
Speaker 4 (36:54):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
There's there's this interesting idea that we've been toying with
that that Saint Albans can kind of collectively understand, Okay, well,
this guy's looking for this, so let's let's give him
an experience. And we've been we've been kind of testing
that out a little bit as we've been returning to
Saint Albans and and just implanting these ideas in our
mind of this is what we want to see this time,
(37:15):
this is all we want to see next time, this
is what we want to see, you know, the time
after that. And and interestingly enough, we've we've had some
of those experiences just.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
Very very tailored. It's it's the weirdest thing.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
It's kind of becoming its own, its own self. You know,
it has its own consciousness and it and it can
read you, which is pretty wild. I love that experiment.
And it's so you're so privileged to be able to
kind of investigate a place like that over and over
again where you can kind of put something like that
into motion. I think that's so interesting.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Oh yeah, and we work with you know, we work
with some of the other teams like Bedford Paranormal and
Mountain Spirits up there, and you know, they worked very
very closely with Saint Albans. You do a lot of volunteering.
They're up their host and events all the time, help
them fundraise. And the fun thing is, you know, they're
kind of like a second family to me, like I
know them.
Speaker 4 (38:05):
We talk often.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
We talked about non paranormal things, right and it's fun
because we get to not only just ourselves kind of
try this experiment, but they get involved too, and they're
up there all the time. So it's really neat to
have the ability to not just be like dark tourism,
as I referred to it, where you go one time.
You know, we get to go time and time again
(38:27):
over years and collect data and experiences and all these
sorts of things. And it's a very unique opportunity. You
don't get to do that all the time.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Wow, thrilling for you. I'm very jealous.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
So I will calm down.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
I want to. I will.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Actually, you know, I've said this multiple times this season.
I sound like a broken record, but I've been doing
so many locations this season of Haunted Road that I
haven't been to yet. In Saint Albans is one of them,
and so I fully intend to.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Make it there.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
I've heard really lovely things, and you've been a wonderful guest.
I just want to thank you so much. I know
I chased you around a little bit. Shout out to
my friend Becky Gallentine, who put us in touch with
each other.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
Appreciate you, Becky.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
Yeah, you've been great and I hope. Yeah, I hope
to get there soon. So thank you so much for
the intel and congratulations on all the lovely work you're doing.
Speaker 4 (39:19):
Thank you and make sure you send pictures of the
Hunted Mansion. Oh, I will for sure absolutely favorite ride.
It's the only haunted house in the entire America. Is Mansion.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Yeah, there's nothing, There's nothing else. Thank you, Steve, Thank you.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
Enjoy.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
Many people came to Saint Alban Sanatorium in the hope
that they could get treatment and help, and some of
them were right. It's important that we don't disregard those
patients success stories and happy endings.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
As for those.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
Who remain restless, still seeking peace, we can hold them
in our hearts and show our respect when we visit
the facility from which they may never check out. I'm
Amy Bruney and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is
(40:16):
a production of iHeartRadio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Minky.
Haunted Road is hosted and written by me Amy Bruney,
with additional research by Cassandra de Alba. This show is
edited and produced by supervising producer Rima el Kali, with
executive producers Aaron Menke Trevor Young, and Matt Frederick. Learn
(40:38):
more about this show over at Grimandmild dot com, and
for more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of iHeartRadio and Grim
and Mild from Aaron Manky.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Hello and welcome to the season six finale of Haunted Road.
I want to remind you to please stay subscribed and
keep telling your friends about Haunted Road in the meantime
while we get more episodes in order, please come see
me in person. Head to amybrune dot com to see
if I'll be in your neck of the woods anytime soon.
(00:34):
I've got a massive fall tour in the works, Walking
with Ghosts, True Crime Hauntings with Amy Bruney, and it
covers some of my most intense cases and evidence with
a true crime spin to each. Plus I bring some
of my favorite haunted artifacts along so you can get
to know them personally. And of course, please join us
at the Paranormal Circle, a place where you can get
(00:55):
weird with a lot of other ghost nerds like me.
We do live streaming investigations, we do interviews with some
of my favorite paranormal friends like Josh Gates, Adam Barry,
Chip Coffee, and Moore. There's twenty four to seven webcams
and a lot more. Again, head to Amy brune dot
com to join in all the spooky fun. Now Haunted
Roadies enjoy the season six finale. Years ago, I was
(01:21):
investigating an old nursing home. I was sitting in the darkness,
peering down a long hallway, waiting for something, anything, to happen.
I'd heard noises at the end of the hall, and
I was determined to see if they were ghostly or
some sort of critter that had gotten in the space.
And that's when I saw it. The darkness seemed to
(01:43):
move on one side of the hall, the entire darkness.
It stirred a bit, and then a large portion of
what I assumed to be shadows broke loose from the
black space, and I could see it was humanoid in nature,
and it was crawling. As quick as I could register
what I was seeing, that same crawling thing scurried from
(02:06):
the floor, up the wall, across the ceiling, and disappeared
into a gaping chunk of the ceiling that had long
fallen and rotted away. I'd seen what we call a crawler,
and the place where headed this week is notorious for them.
Join me as we head to Saint Albans Sanatorium. I'm
(02:29):
Amy Bruney and this is Haunted Road, a pair of
stately brick buildings designed in the classic Revival style tower
on a bluff that looms over the New River in Radford, Virginia.
The two structures stand very near each other, just sixty
(02:50):
feet apart, while an eight foot wide corridor connects the two.
They're each two stories tall with dingy windows looking out
over the neatly mowed lawns, but the interior of each
building is anything but tidy or well maintained. The structures
are currently undergoing renovations, but if you walk a little
(03:10):
past the areas that have been restored, you'll find passageways
where the bluish white paint peels off crumbling walls. In
some places, large patches of plaster are visible. Even beneath
the decay, you can see hints of old glory. The
remains of an old grand staircase and a former sun
(03:30):
room still stand, the ladder of which is still brightly
lit thanks to the overhead skylights. There's even a modest
underground bowling alley with two lanes. The facility, known as
Saint Alban's Sanatorium, was originally constructed as a private prep
school for boys in eighteen ninety two. At the time, Radford,
(03:51):
Virginia was going through a period of transformation after numerous
Civil War battles had swept through the region, leaving destruction
in their While the town had only been formally incorporated
for less than a decade at that point, it had
also already changed.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Its name once.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
While Radford was redefining itself, the new school catered to
its wealthier residents. Once Saint Albans first opened its doors,
it had the capacity to serve fifty students, and the
inaugural class had thirty nine. Interestingly, the school only had
five teachers, counting the headmaster, who also owned the institution,
(04:30):
and almost all of them were completely inexperienced in education.
In fact, the headmaster was a lot more interested in
developing the athletics program than he was in academics. According
to Anne Stuart Beckett's report for the United States Department
of the Interior, the school had one of the top
football and baseball programs in all of the South during
(04:53):
his tenure. This was a big draw for prospective students. However,
in the early nineteen hundred that headmaster sold the institution
to pursue more profitable opportunities. Sadly again, this is according
to Anne Beckett, the new owners squandered the school's resources
and good name. It soon became an open secret that
(05:16):
the students didn't respect anyone. Beckett reported that they were
verbally abusive to their professors, locals around town, and each other.
They drank to excess and destroyed property. In the yearbooks.
Whichever students wrote the copy openly bragged about beating up
their classmates. They also called them rude names in print.
(05:37):
In light of all of that, it was almost inevitable
that the local families would find other places to send
their children rather than send them to Saint Albans with
its bad reputation. Enrollment numbers declined year after year, until
finally the school had to be shuttered. After several years
spent sitting empty, the facilities sold again in nineteen fifteen.
(06:00):
This time around, the buyer was a man named doctor J. C.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
King.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
He had no background in the academics, but unlike some
of the former owners, he also had no interest in
owning or operating a school. King had previously worked in
a mental health institution, and after he acquired Saint Albans,
he converted it into a facility he called Saint Albans Sanatorium.
(06:24):
While the hospital was originally intended to focus on nervous
and emotional disorders, over time their mission expanded. At various periods,
they treated substance use disorders, alcohol abuse, and physical conditions
like syphilis. Doctor King, who lived on site, even provided
(06:44):
emergency medical care and delivered babies for locals who sought
his expertise. But in the beginning, there was a great
demand specifically for mental health treatment, so much so that
when the sanatorium first formerly own, opened its doors on
January sixteenth, nineteen sixteen, there were already four prospective patients
(07:06):
lined up outside. Those residents and the later ones found
a warm, welcoming home. In their book Haunted Asylums, Prisons
and Sanatoriums Inside Abandoned Institutions for the Crazy, criminal and Quarantined,
authors James Davis and Samuel Queen described the conditions in
very positive terms. They said that Saint Albans ran an
(07:30):
on site farm which provided fresh produce for the residents.
Their go to remedies included rest and relaxation, games of
croquet and tennis, and even massages. This was not the
norm when it came to mental health treatment in the
nineteen tens, so it's no surprise that patients flocked to
Saint Albans. Unfortunately, people didn't understand mental illness well in
(07:54):
that time, and this meant the sanatorium also prescribed treatments
that we'd consider barbe barrack today. It doesn't seem that
the doctors were acting out of malice or cruelty, merely ignorance.
According to the Roanoke Times, Saint Albans was the first
hospital in all of Virginia to adopt the then cutting
(08:15):
edge practice known as subcoma insulin shock therapy. The theory
behind it was that some mental health conditions could be
cured if the patients spent a few hours in a coma,
But the process the doctors used to induce these commas
was very dangerous and sometimes fatal, and sadly, even for
(08:35):
those patients who survived, the remedy was frequently ineffective. Still,
more and more patients checked in, and Saint Albans had
to add new beds to keep up with demand. They
built new additions in nineteen twenty six, then again in
nineteen fifty and once more between nineteen fifty four and
(08:55):
nineteen fifty five. In the midst of all this construction,
in nineteen fifty one, the sanatorium's owner, Doctor King, passed away,
his son, James took over. An article with the Martinsville
Bulletin reported that around this time the sanatorium experienced a
one hundred percent labor force turnover. Every single person who'd
(09:19):
worked under doctor King's supervision was either fired, laid off,
or resigned due to poor pay and a heavy workload.
There were simply too many patients for all of the
nurses and doctors to give them the care they needed,
and the staff was getting burnt out. James approved better
pay to try to stem the exodus, and after that
(09:40):
the hospital continued to operate for decades. It continued expanding
and adding new buildings until it finally shut its doors
for good in nineteen ninety four. Originally there were plans
to demolish it, but throughout the two thousands and early
twenty tens, local activists fought to preserve the facility. This
(10:01):
was in part due to its historical significance, but also
because by this point Saint Albans had earned a reputation
for being haunted. In fact, according to some Saint Albans
was called the most haunted location on the East Coast
after it secured a spot on the National Register of
Historic Places. In twenty twenty, Saint Albans became an historical
(10:25):
museum which also hosted ghost tours. Visitors who come on
these tours report all of the typical sides you see
in any haunted location. There are noises that don't have
a clear source, disembodied footsteps, voices, and even sounds of
merriment like laughter, singing, and whistling. A cold spot may
suddenly descend and then disperse just as quickly. Electronic devices
(10:49):
lose their charges rapidly. Guests get the sense that they're
being watched and might see objects move on their own.
As for the spirits that are thought to dwell there,
they have been known to be aggressive. Multiple guests came
away from their tours with deep scratch marks. Others got
burned so severe they left welts. There are several specific
(11:12):
specters who make regular appearances at Saint Albans, especially in
the boiler Room and the Bowling Alley, both of which
are hotspots for sightings. In the boiler room, female visitors
often feel as though some entity they can't see as
groping them or touching their hair. Much of the activity
in this room is attributed to a spirit that has
(11:35):
been nicknamed Smoky. It's thought to not be human, and
guests often leave it lit cigarettes as a sort of
peace offering. As for the basement, there's quite a bit
of debate about who exactly dwells there.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
One story goes.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
That a young woman was admitted to Saint Albans, then
passed away there the ghost of her daughter, a young girl,
now roams the basement searching for her departed mother. Other
account says the ghost is a woman named Gina renee Hall.
She was murdered in nineteen eighty by a man who
gave her a ride home from a nightclub. Her body
(12:09):
was never found, even after her killer was caught and convicted.
Some think her murderer might have burned it in the
Saint Alban's boiler, or he might have stashed her remains
away somewhere else on the property. Supposedly, if you say
Gina's name out loud while in the Bowling Alley, a
mist will appear before your eyes, as though you've summoned her.
(12:30):
The Bowling Alley is also home to a shadow figure
with striking red eyes, but ghost hunters don't need to
restrict themselves to the Bowling Alley, boiler room and basement
to have an encounter. Reports say a woman's spirit wanders
Saint Alban's halls carrying a baby.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
She seems to be.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
In her twenties or thirties and often wears a white
dress that looks like something from the late eighteen hundreds.
Typically she'll appear under the main staircase's archway. There are
also reports of a dark haired young girl, and one
ghost is said to be aggressive, with men rushing at
them when they encounter it. One of the most well
(13:10):
known spirits is a woman named Rebecca. It said that
she was pregnant while she was living at the hospital,
although accounts vary as to whether she was already expecting
when she checked in or if she conceived the child
during her stay. Either way, the baby didn't make it again.
There doesn't seem to be much consensus about what exactly
(13:32):
happened to it. Some stories say it was a stillbirth,
others say a miscarriage. There are even rumors which were
reported by Jody Arneson on the mid Atlantic Day Trips
website that sanatorium employees forced Rebecca to have an abortion
she did not want. Arneson also reported that after the
child passed, a heartbroken Rebecca kept its remains in ajar.
(13:55):
She treated it like a real living baby, rocking it
and singing Lalla. Eventually, the staff decided this was unhealthy
and they took the jar away from Rebecca to bury it.
Unable to deal with her loss, Rebecca marched into the
bathroom right next door to her room. There she took
her own life. She was one of several patients who
(14:17):
died by suicide in that very bathroom. Estimates put the
number at anywhere between three and twelve people. Today, visitors
who set foot in that bathroom or Rebecca's bedroom often
report that they feel an overwhelming sadness. Some burst into
tears without fully understanding why. There are also often sightings
of a pair of men, Jacob and Donald. It's unclear
(14:41):
who Jacob and Donald were in life, and there's no
historical record of either one, but there are various stories
that tried to explain their backgrounds. One goes that Jacob
was a young child who grew up in the sanatorium
after his parents gave him up. Donald was a pedophile
who worked at Saint all doing odd jobs and handiwork.
(15:02):
It's said that one night Donald sexually assaulted Jacob, then
killed the boy. After the deed was done, Now his
spirit tries to recreate the crime, coaxing male visitors into
his room and then into his closet. Evil Ogolville's article
to Catch a Preternatural Predator Donald of Saint Alban's Sanatorium, Radford,
(15:23):
Virginia suggests that Jacob's spirit is unable to move on
because Donald is still keeping him there within his grasp.
Another variation on this story goes that Donald didn't actually
kill Jacob, but he was falsely accused of the murder
after the young boy turned up dead. In this version,
Donald was an innocent gay man blame fell on him
(15:44):
solely due to the widespread homophobic attitudes of the time,
But there is absolutely no historical documentation to back any
of these stories up. Regardless of where the truth lies,
it's clear that the halls of Saint Alban's Sanatorium are
marked by sadness. Even though the staff seemed to want
the best for their patients during the hospital's operation, they
(16:07):
couldn't be everything they needed. Every human life has a
certain amount of tragedy, and when you exacerbate that with
mental illness and a poor understanding of how to treat it,
it seems inevitable that some of that pain will linger permanently.
So today I am talking to Steve Dills. He is
a paranormal investigator and researcher who has spent quite a
(16:30):
bit of time at Saint Albans and he has some
of the wildest stories I have heard on Haunted Road.
Yet that is coming up after the break. All right,
I am now joined by Steve Dills, who is a
paranormal investigator and researcher and has investigated and visited Saint
(16:55):
Albans many times. So Steve, why don't you tell me
what team you're from and what it is you do
exact Hey?
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Sure? So again, my name is Steve Dill's.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I am the director of Transcend Paranormal or a paranormal
team that operates in central Virginia and we do quite
a bit of traveling, but we also partner with historical
locations throughout Virginia and surrounding states and we host you know,
ghost tours, public investigations, lectures, presentations, hold nine yards and
one hundred percent of the proceeds goes directly to the
(17:25):
historic locations that we're working with.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Oh, I love that so much. Yeah, we talk about
that a lot on the show. Here about that really
lovely byproduct of paranormal research and investigation that sometimes we
can actually help some of these historical locations financially. You know,
regardless of how you feel about ghosts and hauntings or
if you believe in them or not, there are some
(17:49):
really great work that comes out of this. So I
really admire that. That's really awesome.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah, and it's it's a really cool way to kind
of I guess it's a different lens that you get
to explore and kind of pack history. So it's kind
of fun to flip something on its side and take
a look at it from a different angle.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Yeah, And I mean, seriously, Virginia, You've got a lot
of history going on there, so you're.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
You're in an area right for research. I love it.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Full disclosure for my listeners and for you Steep, because
I did not tell you this, but I am currently
recording this. We're on vacation. Anyone who follows me online
knows I'm here a lot, but we're on vacation at
Disney World, which is lovely. But that also means that
there are ferries.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
In the background.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
And if you hear a horn, it's not a ghost
horn like a it's a water taxi horn. And if
you hear voices, it's probably housekeeping. So I know sometimes
people hear voices in the background when I'm recording at home,
which I do not have an explanation for, but this
I do.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
But anyways, we're in line for the Haunted Mansion right now.
I may have to leave.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
I might have to go ride the ride really fast
if only, oh my gosh, I would be amazing. But
later today that is on our agenda. Anyways, how did
you become involved with Saint Albans or how did you
come to investigate there?
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Gosh, I actually went up there just for an event
one year, and I heard, you know, I heard a
bunch about Saint Albans. You gotta go, you gotta go.
It's you know, it's one of the most honed locations
on the East Coast. I'm like, all right, well it's
you know, it's about a two hour three hour driver.
So and just decided to like okay doing it. And
(19:27):
after that the first time I was, I was pretty hooked.
And so, you know, we we ended up booking Saint
Albans privately a couple of times and then met the
teams that kind of help and and focus a lot
of their time and energy and volunteer at Saint Albans,
and I don't know, just became friends. And so we
(19:47):
go up there every so often and try to help
and support them with their events. And then a lot
of times we still you know, rented out ourselves because
I don't know, I love Saint Albans. It's it's something
that just keeps bringing you back.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
When did you know, like when you what was the
first time that you really had some sort of experience
there or vibe there that you knew like this is
something special, There's something definitely going on here.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Like the very first time that we we rented out
the building, very first time that we went and investigated,
we were actually on the you know, like the tour.
So when you go and investigate Saint Albans, first off,
they will they will all for a tour, so you can,
you know, they'll show you kind of where all the
(20:32):
different locations in the building is where everything you know
how to navigate. But Saint Albans is a maze, hands down.
I have heard people tell me that they feel like
the walls move and you know, the walk run way
and turn around and they're completely lost.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Like a labyrinth situation.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
It is.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
It is massive, absolutely massive. But the very first time
that we went, we were we were taking a tour
so that we wouldn't get lost. We did anyways, and
we were on the grand staircase walking up the steps
and we didn't know this at the time, but going
back and listening to the audio recordings, we recorded the
(21:14):
sound of this woman singing clear as day, to the
point that I almost skipped it, thinking that it was
like one of the team members. But we had heard
stories about Saint Albans about singing and whistling and all
these sorts of things, so we decided that we would
not do that specifically, just in case we caught anything
(21:36):
like that smart and it was, I mean, even to
this day, it's one of the clearest EVPs that I've
got recorded And wow, I knew, I mean, And that
was just the first thing we got.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
We got two other pieces of class A EVPs.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
One in what was referred to as Jacob's room and
another one immediately outside of it. And even in those
this entity individual said I am Jacob and then oh my,
poor little Jacob, and oh my gosh, just listening to those,
(22:14):
you know, you kind of have like the hair raise
on your back because it wasn't expected. This was this
was just during the tour. We hadn't even started investigating,
so it was it was. It was pretty cool, and
it's just kept us coming back every time.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Wow, I have loved that.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
And so Jacob's room seems to be of particular interests,
Like who do you think Jacob is?
Speaker 2 (22:39):
That is a great question and and I'm not sure
if I'm I'm terribly in the popular I guess belief
because I have this this strong feeling. So so as
the story goes, right, let's let's step back and talk
about who is Jacob? And right, So, so as the
story goes, Jacob is young boy that has abandoned right
(23:03):
at the asylum doors, right, and so the staff decide,
and so it was a boy's uh school at one point,
but when when Jacob is dropped off, it is not
a boys school. It is the asylum, and the staff decide,
you know what, you know, what's a really great idea.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
Let's bring this young little boy in. Let's give him
a bedroom.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
And let him stay with us, you know, instead of like, oh,
I don't know, let's let's like get him to the
right you know, organization, and make sure that he gets
a loving family and he's adopted.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
No, no, no, let's leave raise him.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
In his sanitorium.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
It this is gonna be a great idea. Let's raise
him here in this insane asylum. Perfect idea.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
And so so they gave him this room, right, and
he he lives there for a little bit in this
in in his room, and h one night the staff
forget to lock his door or one of the patients
finds keys somehow gets into Jacob's room. And I'm gonna
skip kind of some of the nastier side of this,
(24:03):
but Jacob ends up passing away, right, And so when
when teams go in and investigate, right, they focus on
this story that Jacob is this young boy and you know,
he was murdered and all these sorts of things. And
you walk into Jacob's room and there's a bunch of
(24:24):
toys on the ground, there's a bunch of kids books,
so on and so forth. Looking back historically, myself and
a number of other folks have not been able to
find any actual proof that a young boy named Jacob
was ever at the asylum in any capacity. Yeah, and
so to me it's hard because I feel like if
(24:45):
there was a young boy there, there'd be some sort
of documentation.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Right, there'd be some men in a newspaper article something,
because that's very interesting, just raising a little boy in
that situation.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
Yeah, it's like, it's not even heart it's just like
it's weird.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
And so my thought is that maybe Jacob isn't necessarily
a little boy in the sense of age, but it's
somebody that was a patient that maybe had split personality,
multiple personality, and Jacob was one of those personalities. This
(25:25):
young boy that is is a victim. And to me,
you know, that makes a lot more sense with the
history of the building and the timeline of Jacob being
dropped off, is maybe this was an individual that one
of their personalities was Jacob. This young boy like to
(25:45):
play with toys, you know, those sorts of things that
to me makes a lot more sense than a little
boy being dropped off.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yeah, that does.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Now, what do you think of maybe the potential that
this this Jacob identity has been so kind of so built, right,
so built and accepted by investigators and they talk about
him constantly. Do you think it's kind of it could
be like kind of a Philip experiment moment where they've
kind of spoken Jacob into being like he's kind of
what there's some sort of agrigor tulpa situation going on.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I could see that too.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
Hundred percent absolutely.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
And then that's the other That's the other piece that
that about that too, is is so many people focus
on that story, right, Like you said, so many people everybody.
If you just google Saint alban Sanatorium, I will, I
will guarantee you you'll find something about Jacob immediately.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yeah, And and that story, like you said, it's just
it's just so widely spread and passed around that I
agree with you. I think that there is a very
strong opportunity that this could be something very similar to
the Philip experiment. So many people are talking about it,
and and especially you go in and you focus all
(26:59):
that energy about you know, Jacob Jacob, Jacob Jacob. I
think that it very well, could be something that we
have as a byproduct of investigating.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Yea, And they're bringing him toys and gifts. That's so
interesting And it's funny too because there are probably you know,
there are I'm sure there's no shortage of spirits there.
And can you imagine being one of the other ghosts
and you're like, okay, enough about Jacob here I am,
I'm right here.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
You know, I don't get toys exactly.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
It's like it's like the next room over and it's
just come on, we're a little spirit. You're just kind
of like peeking out around the door. Anybody want to
come into it?
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Seriously?
Speaker 3 (27:42):
Well, I find that to be very interesting and so
all right, so you've got great EVPs. You have these
interactions and these stories like have you ever seen anything there? Like,
have you ever seen an apparition or any sort of
light normalist? Okay, what what was the most striking thing
that you've seen there?
Speaker 2 (27:57):
So so this is not something I mean, I've seen things,
but one of the most interesting things was actually a
buddy of mine, Alan Marston, and Alan lives pretty close there,
so he's up there all the time, and I want
to share what he experienced and saw because Alan's like
(28:17):
a brother and me and I absolutely trust this man
my life. So so Alan was up there, he had
gone up and he was helping them, you know, clean
up and work and all that sort of stuff. And
so he stayed with some of his family and investigated
one evening and scene all beens. You know, first off,
(28:38):
it's it's a paranormal research center. Folks can can rent
it out, but they closed down kind of during the fall,
like September October, and they have a haunted house that
operates throughout the entire building. And so this is a
little bit before Alan is investigating. He's walking through the
(28:59):
building and he had just passed the Grand staircase and
there is a for those of that have been to
Saint Albans, you walk past the Grand Staircase, there's a
smaller stairwell on the left hand side that's kind of
towards what is referred to as the King Center. And
(29:20):
Alan's walking by and he kind of shines his flashlight
to look down the steps, and as he does, there
is a man standing there in a black kind of
like robe and a pig mask. No way like straight
out of Saw, you know, and Alan looks directly. This
(29:45):
person makes eye contact with them, and Alan says he
could see the fear in this man's eyes that like
he was startled that he was looking at Alan and
Alan and was looking at him. And so whomever this
was in this pig mask immediately turns to go like
(30:09):
down the steps and then disappears.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
It disappears in front of him, like you can see.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
In front, right in front of Alan just just disappears gone.
And I I mean, I don't know, there's so many
creepy aspects of this, right, You've got You've got Alan there,
and he looks down the stairwell right like the creepy
stairs down and there's a man walking up. And if
(30:37):
you've ever watched Saw, you're like, oh god, you know,
pig Mask bad news.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
I haven't watched it because I am terrified of scary movies,
but I know the image watch it, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
I mean it's it's incredibly gory.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, it's the gory ones.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
I don't really like yeah, no, no, no, no, anyway, I agree,
I digress.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I do that a lot.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Uh So, So he looks down and he sees, you know,
this person like, to me, it is it is one
of the most interesting things and experiences to dissect, right,
because Alan is startled to see this full body apparision,
this figure walking up the steps. But the fact that
he makes eye contact with with whatever this is and
(31:23):
it itself is also startled, I think is just absolutely
interesting because we have this this idea that ghosts, spirit entities,
whatever you want to refer to the matters are kind
of like omnipotent, like they they they know what you're doing, right,
They're like Santa Claus, and you know, if they're walking
(31:44):
up the steps, they're they're aware that you're up there.
You know, their intent is to do either whatever they're
doing or to secure you.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
But the fact that whatever this was was was just
as startled as Alan to me is very very interesting
because the challenges, you know, kind of like the basic
you know, ghost trope that we've kind of pushed out there.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
Yeah, and I love it.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Because it's like, was this individual actually, you know, if
we if we go with the basic our ghosts stead people,
was this somebody that had passed on and they had
been part of the haunted house experience at one point
and they're kind of you know, reliving out, you know,
some fun piece of this. But then if so, why
(32:28):
were they startled to see Alan? That would that would
suggest that this wasn't just you know, something occurring, but
this was an intelligent experience.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
So so is.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
There something more where we kind of butted up maybe
against another you know, another universe or another reality and
we just you know, Alan just got a perfect view
right through a window and it just just so happened
to startle both of them.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Yeah, that's a lot to unpack, you know. It's just
like just the sheer like appearance of this form, obviously
on its own, is very strange. Makes sense for the
time of year and what's going on there, but not
in the sense that there should be anyone there. And
then yeah, it does bring to mind like is this
someone coming back and like reliving their haunted house?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
I'm is there?
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Did they did they die in the pig mask? Do
they like wearing the you know what?
Speaker 4 (33:20):
I mean?
Speaker 1 (33:20):
So many questions.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
That that's so, that is a really wild story. People
must see all sorts of apparitions there, like they must.
I mean, what do you think are the most common
reports other than pig man oh Man?
Speaker 2 (33:35):
So so in terms of the most common and I
will tell you I've seen personally. I've seen this thing
numerous times is what is referred to as the crawler.
And I'm sure Amy you've you've heard of references of
these things.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Oh, I've seen them, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
And it's it's just this this humanoid kind of figure
that is almost like a shadow and crawling on all fours,
on the floor, on the walls, on the ceilings, you
name it. It just it just loves us to get everything.
I have seen this down hallways. I've seen this thing
walk past me. I've seen whatever this thing is probably
(34:16):
seven feet from me crawling out of a room in
drunk tank, as I referred to it as. And it's
it's creepy. Actually, I actually watched this thing and it
was kind of like it had a gate of like
a cat. Yeah, and it just kind of like crawled
out of one of the one of the rooms and
(34:37):
and just kind of scuttled down the hallway. And there
were three of us that were standing there watching this thing.
I ran after it because I'm full of bad decisions,
and so did one of my other teammates. My third
teammate decided that was enough and he started going the
opposite direction, but the crawler is probably one of the
(34:59):
most prolific.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
You know, you'll look.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Down a hallway and you'll just see, you know, this
this silhouette for like a brief second of something on
all fours and folks have reported seeing that time and
time again.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, you know, it's funny. Those seem to appear in
that setting very often. Like that sort of setting.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
I don't know what it is about sanatoriums, asylums, prisons,
you name it, Like they seem to spawn that type
of apparition or anomaly, and I don't know if it's
whatever energy there was or whatever happened there before creates
that type of energy.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
Emotion, you know, the emotional drain the energy.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Yeah, it's just really interesting.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
And then again kind of going back like talking about Jacob,
like people start to expect to see it, and like
I've investigated people where you know, the crawlers as we
call them, have been seen, and they just fixate on that.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
They are terrified to see that.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
So I think they sit in the dark and they're
just like, of all the things here, I could see
a crawler, you know, and it just defies all logic
when you do actually see one.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Yeah, because it's like like you said, it's it always
seems to be these like creepy like I've never heard
of somebody being like, oh yeah, is that the haunted Airbnb?
And or like the haunted bed and breakfast and I
saw a crawler come out we were eating breakfast.
Speaker 4 (36:23):
You know, it's always like oh.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Wait, it's always in the extreme responts and and like
you said, I think people do fixate on it and
and they get terrified. And I sometimes I think, and
I know we're completely tangent right now on on the
the prolif experience there, but I do think Saint Albans
kind of gives you what you want. Yeah, you know,
(36:47):
in a sense like if you're if you're going in
there and you're trying to have an experience or you're
trying to see something.
Speaker 4 (36:54):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
There's there's this interesting idea that we've been toying with
that that Saint Albans can kind of collectively understand, Okay, well,
this guy's looking for this, so let's let's give him
an experience. And we've been we've been kind of testing
that out a little bit as we've been returning to
Saint Albans and and just implanting these ideas in our
mind of this is what we want to see this time,
(37:15):
this is all we want to see next time, this
is what we want to see, you know, the time
after that. And and interestingly enough, we've we've had some
of those experiences just.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
Very very tailored. It's it's the weirdest thing.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
It's kind of becoming its own, its own self. You know,
it has its own consciousness and it and it can
read you, which is pretty wild. I love that experiment.
And it's so you're so privileged to be able to
kind of investigate a place like that over and over
again where you can kind of put something like that
into motion. I think that's so interesting.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Oh yeah, and we work with you know, we work
with some of the other teams like Bedford Paranormal and
Mountain Spirits up there, and you know, they worked very
very closely with Saint Albans. You do a lot of volunteering.
They're up their host and events all the time, help
them fundraise. And the fun thing is, you know, they're
kind of like a second family to me, like I
know them.
Speaker 4 (38:05):
We talk often.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
We talked about non paranormal things, right and it's fun
because we get to not only just ourselves kind of
try this experiment, but they get involved too, and they're
up there all the time. So it's really neat to
have the ability to not just be like dark tourism,
as I referred to it, where you go one time.
You know, we get to go time and time again
(38:27):
over years and collect data and experiences and all these
sorts of things. And it's a very unique opportunity. You
don't get to do that all the time.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Wow, thrilling for you. I'm very jealous.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
So I will calm down.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
I want to. I will.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Actually, you know, I've said this multiple times this season.
I sound like a broken record, but I've been doing
so many locations this season of Haunted Road that I
haven't been to yet. In Saint Albans is one of them,
and so I fully intend to.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Make it there.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
I've heard really lovely things, and you've been a wonderful guest.
I just want to thank you so much. I know
I chased you around a little bit. Shout out to
my friend Becky Gallentine, who put us in touch with
each other.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
Appreciate you, Becky.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
Yeah, you've been great and I hope. Yeah, I hope
to get there soon. So thank you so much for
the intel and congratulations on all the lovely work you're doing.
Speaker 4 (39:19):
Thank you and make sure you send pictures of the
Hunted Mansion. Oh, I will for sure absolutely favorite ride.
It's the only haunted house in the entire America. Is Mansion.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Yeah, there's nothing, There's nothing else. Thank you, Steve, Thank you.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
Enjoy.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
Many people came to Saint Alban Sanatorium in the hope
that they could get treatment and help, and some of
them were right. It's important that we don't disregard those
patients success stories and happy endings.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
As for those.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
Who remain restless, still seeking peace, we can hold them
in our hearts and show our respect when we visit
the facility from which they may never check out. I'm
Amy Bruney and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is
(40:16):
a production of iHeartRadio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Minky.
Haunted Road is hosted and written by me Amy Bruney,
with additional research by Cassandra de Alba. This show is
edited and produced by supervising producer Rima el Kali, with
executive producers Aaron Menke Trevor Young, and Matt Frederick. Learn
(40:38):
more about this show over at Grimandmild dot com, and
for more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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