S1 – 4: See How I Was Burnt With Fire

Only once in the history of America, has the testimony of a ghost resulted in the conviction and execution of a supposed murderer. The site of that occurrence, now the Valley Inn and Restaurant in Portsmouth, Rhode Island, is said to be extremely haunted. They also serve a really mean pizza.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio
and Grim and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised.
In January seven, the body of Elva Zona Heister was
found dead at the foot of her stairs by a

(00:21):
young boy who had been dispatched to the house on
an errand by her husband, Erasmus Stribbling Trout Shoe. The
boy ran for his mother, who then called the local
doctor and coroner. The doctor took over an hour to arrive,
and by the time he did, Shoe had carried his
wife's body upstairs, dressed her in a high neck dress
with a stiff caller, laid her out on the bed,

(00:44):
and covered her face with a veil. When the doctor
attempted to examine Elva, Shoe sobbed and cradled her head,
and even at one point became violent when the doctor
tried to take a closer look at bruises he noticed
about Elva's neck. At that point, the corener ended his
examination and left the house. Elva's death was listed as

(01:05):
everlasting faint and then was changed to childbirth four weeks later.
Elva's mother, Mary Jane Heister, claimed the spirit of her
daughter had appeared to her in a dream and declared
that her husband was cruel, had abused her, and eventually
murdered her by breaking her neck. To demonstrate this, the
ghost turned her head around until it was facing backwards.

(01:29):
Armed with this story, Mary Jane visited the local prosecutor
and begged her daughter's body be exhumed. It was and
was given a three day autopsy, at which they found
her neck was indeed broken and her windpipe smashed. Shoe
was arrested and charged with the murder of his wife.
Turns out Shoe had been married twice before. One former

(01:51):
wife left him due to abuse, the other died under
mysterious circumstances. During the trial, the ghost was brought up
one time by the defense in an attempt to prove
Elva's mother an unreliable and unstable witness. The prosecution, on
the other hand, didn't need the ghost testimony to prove
Sho's guilt, So while the ghost may have instigated the investigation,

(02:14):
it was not ultimately what led to a guilty verdict
and put him away for life. However, I have a
story to tell you that happened over two hundred years
before in Portsmouth, Rhode Island where just that happened, and
it still stands today as the only case in American
history where the testimony of a ghost led to a murder,

(02:34):
conviction and execution. I'm Amy Brunei, and this is Haunted Road.
Thomas Sr. And Rebecca Cornell were originally from England, where
they married in sixteen twenty. Thomas was in his thirties

(02:56):
and Rebecca was About twenty seven years later, their child,
Thomas Jr. Was born. Some records have as many as
twenty children born to the Cornells, but for the purposes
of this bit of history, let's focus on Thomas Jr.
The Cornell's left England for Boston, where they arrived in
sixteen thirty eight. They were some of Boston's very first settlers.

(03:16):
Their tenure in Boston was cut short, though, when the
Massachusetts Bay Colony was divided over the Antinomian controversy, which,
while incredibly complex, I'll totally oversimplify by saying, what's a
debate over biblical interpretation, and the Puritans, who were in
the minority were cast from the colony. The Cornell's in
particular sympathized with the more tolerant society. Roger Williams was

(03:38):
creating in Rhode Island. Thomas Senior was involved in some
side projects, but managed to secure one hundred acre land
grant in Portsmouth, Rhode Island by sixteen forty four that
became the Cornell Homestead. Thomas Senior died February sixteen fifty four,
and most likely at the family home. He was also
most likely buried at what is now called the Old
Cornell Cemetery. After Thomas Senior died, Rebecca put their son

(04:03):
in charge of the estate. At the time, Thomas had
been married to his first wife, but after her death,
Thomas remarried a woman named Sara. Apparently, Rebecca was not
a fan of Sara. Reportedly, Sara had chased one of
Thomas's children with his first wife with an axe, and
Rebecca stepped in and prevented her from striking the child.
If she hadn't, this would probably be a very different

(04:25):
kind of haunting. On a cold winter night in sixteen
seventy three, Rebecca Cornell and Thomas had an hour long
conversation before a dinner of salted mackerel, which Rebecca declined
to eat because she said it made her dry in
the night. According to Thomas. That evening, Edward, his son,
went to Rebecca's bedroom to see if she would have

(04:46):
her evening milk. There he found some sort of fire
on the floor, but it was so dark he needed
a candle to further illuminate the scene. Sounding the alarm,
Edward ran for help. Henry Straight, a hired hand, ran
into the room, followed by the boy with the handle,
and then by Thomas Cornell and his wife. The hired
man saw the fire and raped it out with his hands,

(05:06):
and then, in the faint light shed by the candle,
saw a human body on the floor. According to rather
strange testimony from Thomas, he supposed it to be a
local Indian, so he shook the body and spoke to
it in an Indian language. At that moment, Thomas Cornell
saw the body closer and exclaimed, oh Lord, it is
my mother. After a rather swift investigation, the coroner declared

(05:30):
that Rebecca's death had occurred by fire, that she had
most likely dropped ash on herself while smoking her pipe.
But our story, of course, does not end there. Four
days after Rebecca was found dead, a man named John Briggs,
often referred to as her brother, but the details of
their relationship are debated and unclear, claimed to have been

(05:50):
visited by the ghost of Rebecca, and according to him,
she declared that her death was not an accident at all,
that she was in fact murdered. According to records of
the trial, Briggs says he was awoken by movement on
the bed when he perceived a light in the room
like the dawning of the day, and plainly saw the
shape and appearance of a woman standing by his bedside.

(06:12):
Whereat he was much affrighted and cried out in the
name of God, what art thou. The apparition then claimed
to be Rebecca Cornell. Then it said, see how I
was burned with fire twice the apparition did appear to
be burned from the shoulders up. Briggs story inspired one
John Russell to come forward with revelations of his own.

(06:35):
He claimed that shortly before Rebecca's death, an old friend
of his named George Soul, confided to him that on
a visit to the Cornell house, Rebecca told Soul that
she planned to move in with her other son, Samuel,
but feared she would be made away with Before that time,
the citizens of Portsmouth became increasingly suspicious that Rebecca Cornell's
death was no accident. It was no secret that the

(06:58):
Cornell household was not a happy, very unusually for colonial America.
Rebecca not her forty six year old son Thomas, was
the head of her household. They lived in her home,
and she was apparently not shy about exercising her authority
and controlling the purse strings. In short, her middle aged
son was still dependent on his mother, and rumor had

(07:20):
it that he greatly resented this fat Briggs and Russell
were convincing enough for the Deputy Governor to convene a
new inquest, and Rebecca's body was exhumed in order for
a more thorough autopsy. Two surgeons from Newport were called
in to see if any wounds could be found on
the dead woman. An examination by the doctors uncovered what
they deemed to be a suspicious wound on her stomach.

(07:42):
Did Thomas Cornell stab his mother then use the fire
to cover it up? This second inquest panel now ruled
that Rebecca had died not only from burns, but from
a suspicious wound. Thomas Cornell was put under arrest and
a grand jury assembled. As the trial dressed gossip and
hearsay about the Cornell family was presented in droves. In

(08:04):
addition to Thomas being unhappy with his living situation and
Rebecca's a parent distaste for Thomas's second wife, Sarah, it
was said that Rebecca was so miserable she had suicidal
ideations about dying by knife or drowning. Others reiterated Rebecca's
plans to leave the family in the spring to live
with her other son, that she complained that Thomas was

(08:25):
stingy with heating the house, forced her to do farm labor,
and generally didn't meet her needs. For Thomas's part, he
said that his mother in her lifetime had a desire
to have a good fire, and further said that he
thought God had answered her ends for now she had it.
Thomas was apparently not great at reading the room. Eventually,

(08:46):
Thomas was sentenced and found guilty, largely in part to
the testimony of Briggs and his encounter with Rebecca's apparition.
The actual trial record reads, whereas you Thomas Cornell, have
been in this court in I did in charge for
murthering your mother, Mrs Rebecca Cornell widow, and you being
by your peers the jerry found guilty. From thence on

(09:09):
Friday next which will be the twenty three day of
this instant month, May, about one of the clock, you're
to be carried from the said goal to the place
of the gallows, and there to be hanged by the
neck until you are dead dead. Thomas denied his guilt
up to the moment of his execution. Two years later,

(09:29):
his wife Sarah was charged as an accessory, as was
a local native person. They were not convicted, and the
use of spectral evidence in criminal court hearings became a
point of concern in Rhode Island. A little late, i'd say,
the investigation into Rebecca's death still stands as the only
case in American history that includes spectral evidence in the

(09:49):
conviction and execution of a killer. Today, the Valley in
and restaurant stands at the very side of the Cornell Homestead.
The original home burned down in the mid eighteen hundreds,
but the existing home and restaurant were built on its
original foundation, basement and chimneys, and almost exactly mirrors the
layout of the original home. The family cemetery is on

(10:09):
a now adjacent property that has been developed with condos,
but if you know where to look, you can find
a small trail at the end of one of the
cul de sacs that will take you to Rhode Island
Historical Portsmouth Cemetery thirty six, where the Cornells were all buried,
but not Thomas. It was determined by the family that
Thomas would be buried at the furthest point of the property,

(10:30):
and therefore the furthest distance possible from the mother he
was accused of slaying that property point. It's directly beneath
the parking lot of the valley In. The valley In
and restaurant today is run by owner Joe Ochie, whose
father purchased the house in nineteen fifty seven from a
Cornell descendant, and being a Portsmouth resident, I can vouch

(10:51):
at their pizza is the best in town and that
Joe Och may be one of the most loved residents
in town. I had been wanting to investigate the valley
In for years. Many had asked Joe, but he declined,
stating that while he had heard of many experiences people
had over the years, he wasn't ready to entertain it.
But one week in the summer of Joe allowed Adam

(11:11):
Burry and myself to investigate the building with our show
Kindred Spirits, and the results were astounding. We'll talk to
Adam in a little bit about his thoughts and theories
on the location, but let me just give you an
idea of some of the paranormal happenings reported there over
the years. Items have been known to move on their own,
including a bottle that once flew off a shelf in
front of a number of patrons. A woman once claimed

(11:33):
to have seen an apparition of a woman holding a
bleeding child. Most people feel incredibly uneasy upon entering the basement,
as it's the only original area of the Cornell House.
Voices have been heard coming from empty rooms, shadows have
been seen, and more than one person has been afraid
to lock up at night while alone. So being the

(11:54):
first place Adam and I went knocking on the door
to ask to investigate, Usually people come to us. I
thought it best if we have a chat with him
about our investigation and thoughts on what's going on at
the valley in that's coming up next. So I'm sitting

(12:27):
here with someone I'm sure you're all familiar with, Mr
Adam Barry, who is my partner in crime on Kindred Spirits,
but also one of my best friends in the whole
wide world. And what's interesting about the Valley In is
that Adam and I asked to investigate there. This was
not a case that the owners came to us. It
was a place that when I moved to Equidneck Island,

(12:50):
everywhere I went everyone asked me if I knew about
the Valley In. And when you drive by it, it
looks haunted. It's a big, spooky white Victorian that I
wasn't even sure if it was actually opened the first
time I drove by it. But it turns out it's
very very open, and as I said earlier, has the
best pizza in Portsmouth. So all these things are good

(13:12):
to know. But let's chat with Adam. So hi, Adam, Hey,
I'm wondering why I didn't get any of that pizza. Well,
I think you were probably like low carb or something
at the time. I'm not entirely sure. Yeah, ghost car
too many carbs for guess I wasn't. We were very fortunate,
like every night Joe and staff made us dinner and

(13:35):
so it was really great. That's one of the times
we were completely spoiled in the food Department while we
were investigating. So I know you completely trusted me on
this because I came to you and I was like, listen,
there's this building in Portsmouth that we have to investigate.
And I think I've been trying to get in there
since season one and pandemics obviously suck it turns out,

(13:57):
but it did give us the opportunity to actually get
in there and investigate. And I think that Joe the
owner was a lot more receptive at that time, just
because it was easier to close, and I'm sure he
was looking for ways to get the word out, and
so it was kind of the perfect storm. So I
guess it was one of the few positives that came
out of this awful last year or however long this
is going on. But just when you rolled up to

(14:19):
that place, what stood out to you the most? First off,
what's crazy is I had heard about the case in
terms of like not from you, like I had just
heard through the ether at some point in my life
that somebody was convicted of murder by a ghost, right
when you told me that, Because I think that was
one of the first things you told me when we

(14:40):
pulled up on that place and you said, this is
that place where the person was convicted of murder from
the testimony of a ghost. I immediately lost my mind
because I was like, oh my god, this is the
place because a it's so close to where we all
live and be. On the outside, it does have an
old architectural feel like it looks sort of like the

(15:01):
Amnibal horror house from the left side, but it's a restaurant, right,
like an old house with a really cool restaurant. And
you would never ever ever think that this is that
place where the ghost was like he killed me, you know.
And so I was very excited when we got there
and say the least, well, yeah, and it was, like
I said before, it was kind of strange just because

(15:22):
we didn't quite get asked there. We knocked on the
door and we were like, hey, Joe, and so obviously
there were paranormal claims involved, but they weren't really desperate
for our help. It was kind of like this moment
for us. It was this like bucket list item. It
was sheer curiosity, and then we were like, if we
go in there and investigate, what's going to happen? And

(15:44):
so I think it was kind of this experiment per se.
So what would you say it was like your favorite
part of that investigation, the sty I'm just kidding. Should
we talk about that? I didn't talk about that for
anyone who watches the episode to this is where you
get the behind the scenes moments. So I had a

(16:05):
really brutals tie in my eye, and we were under
a very tight timeline, and so literally that entire investigation,
they were filming me from one side, and then there's
moments of interviews where half of my face is obscured
by shadow. Nobody else knew, and so I was watching
the episode, I completely forgot about it, and I was like,

(16:27):
oh my gosh, this is that time. But like, no
matter what happens to you, you always look great. And
I feel like our crew has been with us so
long they know how to make us look our best
on our worst days. You know, it's when your eyes
swollen shut. It was so disgusting. So anyway, I'm trying
to lock that out of my mind, but it keeps
haunting me. It comes up in Facebook memories and stuff.

(16:49):
So more terrifying than the ghosts, I would say, But
to the point, I think the most exciting thing for us, well,
I think the first thing that stood out for me
was the actual testimony that was said and what the
ghost quote unquote actually said to him, which wasn't he
killed me. I think we found out that the ghost said,

(17:12):
look how my body is burned. Look how my body
is burned. Right, The ghost did not say that person
killed me. And I thought that was the most interesting
and exciting things we first uncovered because for so many
years everyone had thought that this ghost said he killed me,
and that's why this person was put to death. But

(17:33):
that wasn't it at all, you know, right, It was
just that part of the testimony, coupled with just insane
gossip in the community, is really what put Thomas Cornell
to death. Obviously, the testimony of the ghost, which was
included in the trial, was a big part of it.
But she never said like, oh hey, my son did it.
It was just like, look how I'm burned. It was

(17:54):
just so strange because I think when you hear it
in laure as it's passed down, people think that this
was must have said that he murdered her, But that's
not what happened at all. I thought it was interesting
that we kind of assumed that because Thomas was buried
under the parking lot of the restaurant that that was
leading to some sort of unrest, but through our evidence

(18:16):
and through use of like the spirit box and everything,
it seemed like he was really happy not to be
buried with his family. Yeah, it was like our modern
day version of canceling somebody on social media, except it
was through the family, and the family treated him like
he did it the whole time. He was already guilty
before being proven innocent. The testimony of a ghost like

(18:40):
sealed the deal, which is the most crazy thing in
the world. And so when we're sitting there communicating with him,
he's like, no, I'm cool. I don't want to be
buried with my family on the other side of my property.
I would rather just stay right here. And you know,
I guess be at peace because they were not nice,
nam No, and no one had investigated there like we did.

(19:04):
Like I don't think Joe had ever let anyone into investigate.
And I remember one of the first e vps we got,
we were in the room. So I explained this earlier.
But basically the house is built on the direct footprint
of the original home and the basement is original. The
foundation is original and the chimneys are original, so it's
basically completely mirrors exactly what the house looked like before.

(19:27):
And so we were in the room that was the
room with the fireplace where Rebecca Cornell was found, and
we asked, was your death a murder or was it
an accident? And one of the first e vps we
got just very clearly said accident. Yeah. It's rare that
somebody speaks to us that quickly, I think, but our

(19:50):
intention is well known. When we walk in. We present
ourselves in such a way that I feel like whoever's
there is eager to communicate, and I think our excitement
to get into that space they could tell. I mean,
they could tell that we were very excited at the
possibility of just investigating this location and kind of trying
to solve this mystery. And I think when it said accident,

(20:14):
we were like, Okay, well, who is saying accident? Though?
Is it Rebecca that's saying accident or is it somebody
else saying accident? And just like covering it up because
you know, the word accident is definitely I mean, we asked,
is it was it a murder? Was in an accident?
It says, you know, someone says accident, but like what
actually is that? It almost made us a little bit

(20:36):
more confused, and we had work a bit harder to
be like, Okay, well who's saying accident? Right? And now,
like you said in the beginning, like one of the
by products of this investigation was that we kind of
clarified a little bit of a history. And not that
it was hard to do, but just because it was
something that had just been kind of passed down through
word of mouth like that kind of historic game of

(20:58):
telephone for so long, people they just kind of assumed
that what she had said was so clearly like he
murdered me. But that being said, how important do you
think it is during these investigations that we and other
investigators get our history correct? Oh? I think that's the
most important. I mean, evidence is one thing, but getting

(21:21):
the facts straight is the most important thing. Because if
your facts aren't straight, like say you have a wrong name, right,
and then you keep getting e v P s or
evidence that lead not to that name because it's wrong,
then your s ol pretty much because you're not doing
it right. And so I think you and I tend

(21:44):
to lean on the history because it's factual. So you
might not believe in ghosts at all, but you cannot
deny the factual history and the information that we have
gathered for this location, right, can't deny it. It's real,
it's tangible. Here it is, here's the paperwork, here's the letters,
whatever it is. And I think that helps us support
our theories as to why the haunting is taking place.

(22:06):
And if you're not looking at your history, if you're
not doing any history, then you aren't actually ghost tending. Okay.
It's like, you know, it's like it's like it's like
if you're not wearing nails, you're not doing drag. If
you're not if you're not doing your history, you're not
doing ghost sending. Okay, that's just what plains simple. I
think that's the first time those comparisons have ever been made.

(22:31):
Your world. You're welcome. I love it. So there are
a lot of claims that came out of that building
by the time we got there. You know, Joe is
a very matter of fact individual. He's very New England.
He's got a lot of history in that building. His
father bought that building in nineteen seven directly from a

(22:52):
descendant of the Cornell, So that was how long that
building was in the family. But even so, you know,
he kind of told me off the wreck here that
they've been hearing kind of rumblings of things happening for decades.
But his mom especially was very anti the ghost thing,
and she had passed away a few years ago. So
I think that's why we were able to kind of
go in there and investigate. I think that was part

(23:13):
of it. But do you remember we heard about a
woman who saw a woman holding a bleeding child in
a round at one point, and then we also heard
of objects being moved, like there was a bottle that
went flying or something. Do you remember any other claims
while we were there that people spoke of. Um, I

(23:34):
remember they didn't like going into the basement because he
was very much he's a stoic, you know, he's a
stoic individual. He runs a restaurant. He has a level head,
and you know, he said he wasn't that nervous about
the things that were happening. I guess in the restaurant
per se, but he said the creepiest place was down
in the basement. He was like going down there, He's

(23:55):
like I think, he said one time he was working
down there and something happened or he felt like he
wasn't alone. It was just this this weird feeling he got,
or he saw something in the basement and he immediately
stopped working, turned and left, like just left and locked
the door. And remember being down there with you. That

(24:16):
place is a different energy completely then the upstairs. And
I think when we were getting evidence on the SLS
camera and somebody was standing in front of us, we
got the sense that it might have known who that
family was, but maybe was not connected to that family.
In case people don't know. Sl S stands for a
structured light sensor, and so the idea behind it is

(24:39):
that it sends out this kind of spray of like
laser points, and if it detects something that is the
shape of a human, it automatically maps out that shape
and you can see it in front of you. And
so they were using this for like gaming technology and
security systems things like that, and then the paranormal community
adopted it and upon realized thing that sometimes they would

(25:01):
aim this camera at nothing, but yet they would get
some sort of human shape and it would actually respond
to you, like wave at you or walk away, and
so we actually got a really strong hit on that
in the basement where there was definitely a figure standing
there and I feel like I tried to reach out
to it at one point. I can't quite remember, but yeah,

(25:23):
and it had a visceral reaction to I think it
had a visceral reaction to something that we said about
the family, and it's sort of like no, like almost
like don't don't bring that up, which was kind of strange.
And uh, of course, you know, when you get close
to something like that, odds are is not going to
stick around too long. And so you definitely reached out,

(25:44):
and it was sort of reaching out and then it
was just like gone. I almost felt like just us
being in that building and kind of talking about everything
that had happened kind of woke it up a little bit,
you know, because as it stands, like the Valian is
very much a local's haying out. I think that's part
of the reason why it does. It like this big
old Victorian house, and if you weren't local, you probably

(26:06):
wouldn't think to go in there, you know, but you
go in like we probably eat in there, like, you know,
once a month or so, and it's always bustling. It's
always busy, and it's always people we know we run into,
like Charlotte's teachers and stuff, But no one's ever talking
about what happened there. Like there's whisperings of it being haunted,
but no one's ever really talking about it. And we
had that building for five days straight where all we

(26:29):
did was talk about what happened there, And so it
makes me wonder if we just kind of woke it
up a little bit. I definitely think so. We tend
to stir up activity based on our actions and our intentions,
and I think there's something about the two of us,
the way we work together, just facilitates the ease of communication.
And it sounds strange, but you and I know if

(26:51):
we walk into a space and we'd start chatting for
a bit, something more than likely is going to happen.
It might not be what we want to happen, but
I think it's the way that we communicate. Our intention
was very strong. We wanted to find the answer. We
wanted to deep dive into this legend of a ghost
convicting a man from murder, and it did not disappoint.

(27:16):
By day two, totally knew while we were there, and
they were more than willing to participate in this deep
dive into this folklore because no one had talked about it,
I'm sure for many many many years. Yeah, I agree.
I think we solved it in the sense that I know,
we've found what we believed to be Thomas Cornell's body.

(27:36):
Joe suspected that he was buried under the parking lot,
and so we actually brought ground penetrating radar and used
that to go through where we expected him to be buried,
and sure enough, there was like an exact grave there.
And I know our idea at the time was to

(27:57):
erect some sort of you know, monument to him, some
sort of grave stones, some sort of headstone, and we
kind of fashioned this cross there for now, And I know,
having been there a few times that there's been no
monument put up. Joe has not mentioned that anything else
has happened, but honestly, every time I've been in there,
it's been pretty busy, and so I'd love to kind
of pull him aside and ask him, you know, have

(28:19):
you had any activity since we left? Did rile anything up?
Like I know, a lot more stories came out of
the woodwork and I'm sure more will come out once
people hear this podcast, But I keep thinking, like, what
do we do there. I don't know that we fixed
it per se. I don't know there really anything to
fix it, but I don't think we left it worse.
But then I'm also thinking, you know, as time goes on,

(28:40):
what happens when that building changes hands again, Like this
is only the second family who has owned it, what
happens to the next people? I mean, I don't know.
I mean, do you think it's a case of like
if people stop talking about it, then it sort of
goes back into this dormant situation. You know, if it
were ever to change hands and be bought by somebody

(29:01):
who was really into the paranormal and they buy it
for the sole purpose of continuing that communication. I mean,
we've seen that in other locations where people buy buildings
for the purpose of investigating it and then it's sort
of gets riled up again, it gets out of hand
because of whatever is going on. Do you think that's
more logical than us being like oops. I do think

(29:24):
that as we've investigated, we've seen that there's just certain
people who kind of bring out spirits. It's not that
they're haunted or that they're psychic. You know, they're just
more open to the idea or more welcoming. And so
I think it just depends on whoever decides to take
it on next. Like I don't think Joe is going
away anytime soon. I do know that's the real estate

(29:46):
market here right now is pretty insane, though, So who
knows who could end up in that place next. It's massive,
It's much more residential than the kitchen and the restaurant
on the side. So when I see buildings like that,
I always wonder what's going to become of them. But
now you with this history coming out and with people
knowing what happened there, I just wonder if that intention
or that energy is going to start waking things up more. Well,

(30:08):
think of it this way though. So we were there
for that for the sole purpose of trying to solve
this mystery, right Like, That's why we were there. But
we also investigated the operation of the lady with the
bleeding child. We reached out and we tried to figure
out what that was, and we got no we wouldn't
get any answers from that story or we didn't figure

(30:30):
out what that was, And I think it's because you know,
our intention and purpose at that point was to solve
this mystery. They knew that they came forward. We sort
of worked together, you know, the spirits and us, and
the two of us worked together to sort of solve
this mystery. But then you have that other thing, right,

(30:50):
So what if that other thing Now it's like, okay,
my turn. Yeah. I mean, you have over two fifty
years of history in that spot, and the fact that
the family just kind have buried down the hill behind
this new condo development. You know, there's any number of
things that could rile things up, And so every time
I go in there, I'm always kind of looking out

(31:11):
the corner of my eye wondering if I'm going to
see anything, if I'm going to hear anything. I mean,
I would say that anyone who's listening who's had experiences there,
I would love to hear them, because I would love
to kind of build a little more of a portfolio
of ghostly experiences at the Valley end. So because I
feel like there's a lot more. And we were talking
about Joe earlier. He's just kind of so no nonsense,

(31:32):
Like I feel like a ghost could just walk right
in front of him, and he would be like, oh,
I must have eaten something bad, you know. Yeah, he's
too busy. Honestly, he is too busy to be focusing
on ghosts. He's like, I gotta serve the real people,
you know. Yes, So I think that we did the
right thing. I think we clarified history, which was great. Um.
You know, I remember when that episode came out. When
we started talking about it, a lot of people brought

(31:53):
up the Greenbrier Ghost, which I talked about at the
top of this podcast, because that was another really famous
kind of murder try involving the testimony of a ghost.
But the ghost testimony wasn't used by the prosecution, so
the person wasn't actually convicted based on it. So this
one still remains the only case in American history where

(32:13):
someone was convicted and ultimately executed based on the testimony
of a ghost. What happens, yo, yo? What happens when
we are investigating a location and what if we got accused,
like falsely accused like ghost? What if it happens to us? Well,
I mean I think that, you know, no matter what

(32:34):
the ultimate outcome of that building is, I think it's
got a lot more history left in it, but right now,
I just love that it's this cool local hangout that
serves really great food. And I would say probably of
the people who walk in there have no idea what
happened there, No, not at all, And maybe that's for
the best, because the ghosts are at this point, I

(32:56):
think they're satisfied with what we did, so le' not
stir Well, we'll see what other ghosts might make themselves
known there. So again, everyone is listening. I really want
to know if you've had anything else happened at the
Valley and I'll put it out there on social media
and things, and we'll see if we can get some
more really great ghost stories from the place. So Mr Barry,

(33:17):
thanks for joining me. I feel like you're probably going
to be on a few of these. Oh good, any
time that we can do a deeper dive into any
of our locations, because we've done a lot. Yeah absolutely,
well cool. Well, I'll see you soon and maybe we
can go to the Valley in and grab some dinner. Yeah,
pizza for sure. Okay, alright, talk later. Thank you so much.

(33:39):
The paranormal and historical significance of the Valley in cannot
be denied. Remember that if you're ever taking a trip
or vacation to Newport, Rhode Island, take a side drive
over to Port Smith and look for the large white,
looming Victorian on the side of the very busy East
Main Road. Think of everything that has happened in that
spot over the last two d fifty and if you're

(34:00):
brave enough, stop in for a meal and tell Joe
that we said, Hi, Oh, one more bit of trivia
for you. After Thomas Jr's execution, his second wife gave
birth to their daughter, Innocent Cornell. Fitting name Innocent went
on to marry Richard Borden and they had multiple children. Son,
Thomas Borden would end up being Lizzie Borden's great great

(34:23):
great grandfather, so Innocent Cornell Borden and Richard Borden were
effectively Lizzie Borden's great great great great grandparents. I'm Amy
BRUNEI and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is a
production of I Heart Radio and Grimm and Mild from

(34:45):
Aaron Mankey. The podcast is written and hosted by Amy Bruney.
Executive producers include Aaron Manky, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick.
The show is produced by rema Ill Kali and Trevor Young.
Taylor Haggard corn is the show's researcher. For more podcasts
from I Heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,

(35:06):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.