July 21, 2021 • 40 mins
With thousands of deaths recorded at the Odd Fellows complex in Liberty, Missouri - the former orphanage, hospital, nursing home, morgue and cemetery are well known to be haunted. However, we're not sure the Odd Fellows banked on their buildings becoming a winery and inn, and expectedly - the paranormal happenings have very much increased.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio
and Grim and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised.
I've got some stories to tell you. Each one of
(00:22):
these is an individual account. After awaking at one am
to use the bathroom, I settled back in our bed
and was nearly asleep when I felt someone sit on
the edge of the bed next to me. My eyes
flew open and I was unable to speak or move
my arms. I kicked my husband awake, and he held
me until I was calm once again. I'm Megan. I'm
(00:46):
eleven years old. My mom and I stayed in this room,
and we both watched her hair brush fly off the
desk when no one was near it. During the night,
I was awakened by a bell, not like a church
bell or a small tinkling bell, but more like the
sound of a bell at a store counter. The next day,
I woke up to the desk chair across the room
(01:09):
and pushed against the wall. My wife and I turned
the thermostat to seventy degrees before falling asleep. We both
awoke in the middle of the night to find the
room blazing hot. We threw off the covers and went
back to sleep. A few hours later, at four am,
I woke to find a small, blue eyed, blondhaired child
(01:29):
staring at me from my side of the bed. He disappeared,
and a few seconds later I heard a small child's
voice speaking from my wife's side of the bed. I
woke up in the middle of the night to see
the bathroom light on. I like to sleep in darkness,
so I got out of bed, walked across the room,
and turned the light off. After getting back in bed,
(01:52):
I rolled over to see the light was on again.
This time I stood up, and as I walked over,
I said, I'm trying to sleep, leave the light off, please.
I went back to bed, and then heard the soft
click of what sounded like my door opening and closing,
as though someone left because I clearly wasn't much fun.
(02:12):
That last story was mine, by the way, and every
one of these stories was taken from the bedside journals
kept at the Belvoir Winery and in in Liberty, Missouri,
a haunted winery. You ask, well, when it's a former
orphanage next door to a former nursing home, hospital, cemetery
and morgue that ups the anti unweather your winery is haunted,
so let's head to the Odd Fellows Complex. I'm Amy
(02:37):
Brunei and welcome to Haunted Road. Visit the sick, relieve
the distressed, bury the dead, and educate the orphan. That
was the official purpose of the Independent Order of the
(02:57):
Odd Fellows, which was founded by tom Us Wildy of
Baltimore in eighteen nineteen. The I O o F stemmed
from the eighteenth century Odd Fellows of English creation. Being
of fraternal order, Odd Fellowship is also known for their
mysterious and secretive rituals, including rites of initiation, a secret grip,
(03:18):
and secret passwords. The officers and members of the lodge
where regalia during closed ritual meetings. Most famously, each lodge
has an actual skeleton named George, used to symbolize members mortality.
The Fraternal Order first came to Missouri in eighteen thirty five,
and by the end of the century they built the
(03:38):
Odd Fellows Home, a two hundred forty acre complex. It
was a form of health and life insurance, and as
long as members had a good record, they could depend
on the Odd Fellows for help. The complex had its
own farm and expected those who could to work. It
also eventually had its own hospital, an orphanage school, nursing home,
(04:00):
and cemetery. Eighteen eighty seven was a great year for
Clay County, called the Great Boom. The community benefited from
the influx of real estate investment and construction. That year,
the Winner Hotel was built, but the plans didn't stop
with it. In eight eight the land was plotted to
be the home of Red Springs, a complex intended to
(04:21):
take advantage of nearby springs thought to be healing waters.
But by eighteen nine the plans hadn't borne much fruit
Besides the hotel and the owners finances were struggling. In
the midst of the healing waters interest in America, they
renamed the hotel the Read Springs Hotel in an attempt
to attract more visitors. One of those visitors was a
(04:43):
young Fellow who later became the Grand Master of the
Odd Fellows, Dr F. H. Matthews. In poor health, he
had gone to Read Springs Hotel for its healing waters.
His health restored, he married a young Liberty woman and
remained in Liberty to practice medicine. He later was physician
at the Odd Fellows Home for twenty three years. In
(05:03):
eighteen ninety seven, the real estate boom ended, but the
Odd Fellows had purchased the hotel in Acreage. In February
of nineteen hundred, the former Red Springs Hotel was then
being used as an Odd Fellows home, and in an
attempt to unthaw frozen pipes, the building caught fire and
burned to the ground. There were allegedly three hundred residents
(05:25):
on the property at the time, but miraculously all escaped.
Although the fire set the Odd Fellows back money and labor,
they took control of nearly two hundred fifty acres of farmland.
Adults and children, aided by the Odd Fellows, worked this
land and more or less made the home self sustaining.
What stands now as the Odd Fellows District was constructed
(05:46):
between nineteen hundred and nineteen thirty five. The establishment of
statewide homes as the Missouri Odd Fellows in Liberty was
viewed as a form of health and life insurance. As
long as members were in good standing, they could count
on the Odd Fellows taking care of them or their
family if misfortunes should arise. It seemed like a bold
and noble purpose, except eventually the Odd Fellows Home district
(06:10):
became outdated and the conditions people were kept in deteriorated. Originally,
the home was intended to represent modernity, cleanliness, and caretaking
until social programs took over in the nineteen thirties. Now
a little history on the buildings at the Odd Fellows Home.
The administration building was originally built in nineteen hundred house
(06:31):
all the inmates, employees, and functions of the complex. Now,
when I say inmate, I am using an old school
term to refer to the then current residence. The original
school building, now gone and replaced by the modern nursing
home in nineteen fifty five, was built in nineteen o four.
After that, the rooms in the administration building were reduced
(06:51):
in size to function as residences for elderly folks throughout
nineteen o seven and the following year. The Old Folks
Home was built in nineteen In twenty three, the old
hospital was added to the grounds. By the time it arrived,
there had been a need for its singular purpose since
nineteen o five. Because the Grand Lodge made it impossible
for the home to reject an applicant based on a
(07:13):
physical disability, many residents required hospital care beyond that provided
by the staff, nurse and doctor. The hospital was the
only medical facility in Liberty for quite some time, and
even had its own laboratory, but over time it too
became outdated, as the halls and doorways were not wide
enough for movement of hospital beds and equipment. As for residents,
(07:35):
the early years were marked by a greater number of
children versus adults. Around the time of the Great Depression, though,
adults began to outnumber the children. But along with the depression,
national efforts to start up social welfare programs marked the
beginning of the end for the home, at least as
it served the Odd Fellows. Also during the Depression, a
(07:55):
large number of non orphan children were admitted their families
were unable to care for them. In addition to education,
activities for the children included music, literature, radios, religious services,
holiday parties, and movie nights. To this day, people who
spent time at the Orphanage come back to visit, and
most recall having fond memories there. This may explain why
(08:18):
most every encounter with the ghosts of children here involves
playful activity and laughter. Now, as in life, so too
and death did the Odd Fellows aid their members a
cemetery plot, headstone and burial where yet another benefit provided
to their members. There is an on site cemetery at
the complex. Originally it began its tenure near the admin building,
(08:40):
but was moved to higher ground in nineteen eleven. The
cemetery contains the remains of nearly six hundred people. Over
the decades the Odd Fellows Home was an operation, it
is estimated as many as ten thousand people died there.
While many were expected as people were taken care of
in their later years, it's many were due to the
(09:01):
lack of adequate medical facilities in the early years and
then outdated facilities in its later years. There are also
newspaper records of at least a few suicides and accidents,
and a number of children are buried in the cemetery,
most likely victims of pneumonia or tuberculosis and with no
family or means to be buried elsewhere. In n the
(09:23):
Odd Fellows sold the property to the current owners. At
that time, every building had long been closed and out
of commission, other than the nursing home, which still had
a few remaining residents. Eventually, that too was shuttered, and
the new owners then turned the campus into a winery.
The district now totals thirty six acres. It is a dark,
(09:45):
looming set of buildings. The original orphanage is now operating
as the inn and winery, and as fate would have it,
is a popular wedding venue. Also in this building is
a large collection of antique Odd Fellows artifacts, including masks, robes,
and of course, their very own George. This skeleton dates
back to the eighties and belonged to an Odd Fellow
(10:07):
who bequeathed his remains first to science and then to
the I O O F for ritual use. Now, in
addition to educating folks on the history of the Odd Fellows,
he's a popular stop for selfies. Just next door sits
the dormant and quiet nursing home Basement Morgue still included,
and beyond that the old Folks Home and hospital. All
(10:28):
these buildings are wide open to the elements, as nature
is slowly taking over in some places, but it's not
hard to imagine what the complex look like in its heyday.
One thing is for sure, the Odd Fellows complex has
been rumored to be haunted for decades. Many locals have
stories of being dared to enter the buildings in their
teenaged years and having strange encounters. Former staff of the
(10:52):
nursing home, which remained open long after the other buildings
had closed, reports strange going on, especially on the night shift,
and of course the current employees have no shortage of
tales to tell visitors and guests. I should add the
place is now patrolled by security, so no more breaking
and entering, please. Even Jesse lime Killer, who I should
(11:13):
explain as a dear friend and CEO of the winery.
His wife, Melissa's father is the one who originally took
on the task of buying the complex, doesn't shy from
telling his ghost stories. Will be interviewing him in a bit,
but he has seen the apparition of a small child,
a woman, and a shadowed silhouette. He's also personally told
me numerous stories of voices and footsteps in the building
(11:35):
when he has been all alone. It's not unusual for
guests to report footsteps or to hear the pianos playing
on their own, have lights turn on and off, or
see doors slam. So now that you're an expert on
all things odd Fellows Home, let's have a chat with Jesse.
I actually met Jesse and his wife Melissa when we
filmed Ghost Hunters at the home so many years ago,
(11:58):
and we hit it off, Daly, I mean, of course
we did. A family who loves to travel and owns
a haunted winery. Let's just say we were fast friends.
(12:25):
Welcome to the show, Jesse, thank you for having me,
of course. So can you kind of explain how you
came into owning and running a haunted winery in sure? Yeah,
so my wife's parents, they originally acquired the property directly
from the odd Fellows, the odd Fellows that had the
property for about a hundred years, and we acquired it
(12:48):
in My in law's dream was to turn the winery property,
which it was actually just a nursing home, and at
that time they wanted to turn the proper me into
a winery and then a bed and breakfast as well,
and so we started making making those changes and renovating
just to make the winery and then eventually we've fulfilled
(13:09):
what they wanted and about the last five years we
completed the in as well, and now they have it
all m So can you just kind of explain who
the odd Fellows were? Yeah? So the odd Fellows is
a fraternal order and charitable order, much like the Mason, Shriners,
Knights of Columbus. Those type of groups, the lodges would
(13:29):
be located in each individual city, um they would be
everywhere the height of the organization, which was in the
thirties and the forties, and so they would have the
meetings in those lodges, and they would also hold the
rituals in those lodges, and the ritual was based on
Old and New Testament teachings, mainly the parable that goods
the Briton. And then in addition, they would also have
(13:51):
what they called Odd Fellows homes, and they were one
or two in each state, and their purpose was strictly charitable.
They were looking to take care of the orphans, take
care of the poor, how's retired people. And then also
in some cases they would have a hospital there as well. Okay,
so were these buildings where they open to just members
(14:11):
of the Odd Fellows or were these places that anyone
in the community could make use of, so a mixture
of both. They had the orphanage which could be open
to the public, and they were just there to take
care of anybody who needed help in that regard. Usually
it wasn't necessarily that the family was giving up the
orphan It was more a situation where, for example, in
(14:32):
the twenties thirties fourries, they couldn't always feed their family members,
all of them in some cases, and so they would
drop off, usually the younger members of the family. The
older families they would keep on the farm because they
were able to work, whereas the younger kids, they would
take them to these orphanages where they be fed and
taking care of and clothes, and then eventually when the
family got back on their feet, they would come back
(14:54):
and get the orphans. Hopefully. I didn't. I was not
aware of that. I just I feel like everybody assumes
orphans means no parents or no family. Yeah, yeah, in
some cases, I mean. And and it was kind of
weird too, because in the case of the orphanage, the
families would actually come visit them periodically in many cases,
um and so we have a lot of stories where,
(15:16):
for example, a family might have six kids and three
of them were at the orphanage, and then three of
them were at home working on the farm on the property,
and every two to three weeks the family would usually
come on a Sunday after church, they would come and
visit the other kids. They would hang out, they would
have a picnic, just do family things like everything was normal.
(15:36):
And then at the end of the afternoon, the family
would head back with the older kids back to the farm,
and then the younger kids would be left there for
another two to three weeks before they saw their family again.
It's it's so poor into what we think about now,
you know, as as as how things run. But at
the time that was that was very normal. That was
just a way that the private organizations helped people. But
(16:00):
it was just a way of life, and that was
how they survived during that time. So why Liberty, Like,
I know, when I when I get to the winery,
when will you arrive? It's really set away from everything,
you know. Is there a reason why they picked Liberty
in particular? So generally speaking, they obviously turned to try
(16:21):
to be relatively close to bigger cities, which obviously Kansas
City is only about oh fifteen minute drive twenty minute
drive tops. So what they would try to do is
get towards those big population centers where there was the
most need. In the case of Liberty, Liberty actually originally
was going to house a Mason's home there, and what
(16:41):
happened was is that deal fell through, and so then
the city of Liberty offered the odd Fellows seventeen thousand
dollars and that would have been which is a lot
of money back then. But they offered that money to
them and said, hey, will you come and take what
the building, which was basically a bankrupt hotel. And so
(17:01):
they had this large hotel on the edge of their
town and they wanted to do something with it, so
they offered them this money to come in and set
something up, and that's how they came to be at
the property. It was also really close to the river
and a major road which was nice as well, so
that's originally how they came to that property. Did you
ever have any connection to the Winter Hotel or the
(17:24):
Red Springs Hotel or anything like that. Yes, So that
was the hotel that I just spoke of that was bankrupt.
So it originally the original building was a wood structure
on the site and it was built in eighteen eighty.
It was called the Winter Hotel initially um and that
was the person that actually built it, and then later
it became the Red Springs Hotel as well. But there
(17:46):
was actually a full plan for the entire property. Originally
it was supposed to be a community with lots of
houses and businesses, and there was actually a horse racing
track out in front of the property that they did
actually build and was used for a period of time.
But all that was supposed to happen this giant community
just outside of Liberty, and then basically they built a hotel.
(18:07):
It did all right for about a decade, and then
there was a real estate crash early in the eighteen
nineties and the Mr Winner who owned the place, he
basically lost all his properties, and so that's how it
became a bankrupt hotel and became for sale, and that's
how the odd Fellows ended up with it. I see, now,
did that building burn down or is that one of
the structures that's still there? Correct? So the odd Fellows
(18:30):
got the property with the original hotel in and turned
that into an orphanage. And then on Valentine's Day nineteen hundred,
in that building, the cook who was there, they had
a frozen pipe and he wasn't able to do what
he needed to do to cook the meals, and so
he actually went down in the basement and was using
a blowtorch to heat the pipe, and part of the
(18:52):
blowtorch evidently caught part of that wood section on fire.
He didn't know it initially, that's what happened, and of
course it went up flames in a hurry because it
was a wood structure. And that's actually one of the
main reasons that the current building is built with, you know,
eighteen inch brick walls, because the odd fillo is to
not want that to happen again, and so they built
one of the most fire resistant structures in the United
(19:14):
States at that time because they didn't want to have
another wood truck that might go up again. Yes, so
we're the other buildings present when that Orphanage building was rebuilt.
The Orphanage building was the original building it was built
in that's also the current winery building. And then the
second building that was built was the schoolhouse next door.
(19:35):
It was built in nineteen o two. Then the old
Folks Home was built in nineteen o five, and then
finally the medical hospital at the far end it was
built in the early twenties. Okay, I just I noticed,
like when you when you go there, the Orphanage which
is now the winery is just it is in Obviously
(19:56):
it's in great shape because you guys did a lot
of renovating on it and things. But I feel like
that building has just kind of stood the test of
time better than some of the others because the other
ones are they're just wide open to the elements and
they it's so surreal because you roll up there and
you see this big, you know, structure, and then you
see these other structures around it that are covered in
(20:17):
vines and are wide open, and just it looks like
it should be haunted. And you would never expect to
walk into to the winery building and find this like
beautifully restored you know, obviously the winery and the bar,
and then upstairs this beautiful in I don't know, I
always feel like it's just such a contrast between that
building and the other buildings and how they have kind
(20:37):
of fared over the years. Yeah, and it's a it's
a lesson obviously and kind of choose your poison as
far as you know, when you're dealing with these properties.
You know, we've spent a few million on the building
that we do have, you know, but it literally if
we want to do all the buildings, it literally costs
like tens of millions of dollars, and a lot of
people are wondering, you know, well, why don't you restore
them all? It's like, well, they cost a lot of
(20:59):
money to make to make history happen in those cases,
and so you know, as much as we'd like to
just blow right through them and do them all, you
kind of have to stagger it so that you're able
to afford it and not go you know, like Mr
Winner go bankrupt in the process. Exactly, exactly. Now, let's
talk about just you know, why it's haunted over the
years throughout those buildings. How many people do you think
(21:22):
passed away on that property? The off Fellows have just
over ten thou recorded deaths on site. Most of those
are obviously in the nursing home, the old folks home,
in the hospital. You know, I mean the hospital for
the first half of the last century. It wasn't always
a place that you were cured. Sometimes in some cases
it was a place where you were just brought to
be comfortable. You know, they didn't have things like antibiotics
(21:44):
and stuff like that for a long period of time,
and so stuff that you know, we cure easily, they
it wasn't cured easily back then. And then in addition,
there were lots of residents. I mean, between the nursing
home and the old Folks Home, there's about two rooms
in those two buildings, so you can imagine how many
people were going in and out. And it wasn't a
(22:05):
situation where they had a lot of long term residents. Necessarily,
they were coming in out relatively quickly. And in fact,
we have the cemetery on site which acts about six
hundred graves. And it's easy to see too if you
go up there that most of the graves that are
up there, I think there's only about five orphans or
something like that. Most of the graves up there are
people who lived into their eighties and nineties, and we
(22:26):
don't always think about that because so many times, you know,
they tell people, oh, well, they didn't live as long
back then, but there was a lot of people that
did still live that long, and so a lot of
those people up there have lived a long life and
and passed away on the property. Yeah, and it sounds
like when it was built, it was it was state
of the art, but then at some point it kind
of started falling behind, you know, was there kind of
(22:49):
a shift or turn as far as the conditions there
at some point. Yeah, the first shift, the major shift
that happened was, you know, when you have federal government
takes over things like well fair and child protective services.
For many years, these kind of places provided those kind
of services, and the ones that that change took place
in the federal government started covering some of those kind
(23:09):
of things, there was no need for those things there.
As a result, there was a situation where something that
was a stream of revenue that was providing maintenance in
a lot of cases suddenly wasn't there anymore, and your
left basically with a nursing home at that point. And
while you know, theoretically you could do that, it's much
more difficult to run that kind of a property with
that size where it's only a nursing home in a
(23:32):
lot of cases. To the odd fellows, they would pay
a stipend throughout their life as an odd Fellow, and
then if they paid for a certain number of years,
they would get free retirement at the site. While that
was a great idea in principle, what happened was as
you go along, they didn't get as many new members
coming in and so as a result, there was less
(23:52):
of a revenue stream coming in to support all these
people being taken care of at the nursing home, and
as a result, you know, then they suddenly had these
behemoth properties with not enough revenue coming in to support them.
And so it seems like probably the closures were sort
of staggers, and then, like you said before, by the
time your wife's family purchased at it was just the
(24:14):
nursing home and operation. Correct. Yeah, correct, there's only one
building in operation at that time, and I think there
was only about fifteen residents there, so it's not very many.
And in fact, the building where the winery is it
was actually closed for no I'd say, about five to
eight years before we even got it as well, so
it was already in somewhat of a stated decay and
(24:36):
we were we got it in and restarted from the
studs basically. So why why do you think Why do
you think it's haunted? Um? I think it's a mixture
of things. UM. In the winery building, I don't think.
I don't feel like it's a situation where it's a
threatening thing in any way. It's more playful usually, which
(24:58):
makes sense. I mean, there's mostly kids there in some cases.
I mean, most of the residents that were there that
we've met who used to be orphans, they said it
was actually a nice place to stay. They were well
taken care of, and they didn't really have any issues
with staying there other than the fact they would have
rather been home with their families obviously. But you know,
I think I think some of them actually had some
(25:19):
good times with some good friends there and and still
enjoy it. And there were a few that passed away there.
I mean, it does happened. As far as the other buildings,
you know, it's more old age and those kind of things.
A lot of those buildings, it's more of a vibe
like they don't want you there. It's kind of like
grumpy old people kind of thing where you don't feel
(25:40):
welcome there necessarily just because they'd rather not have you there.
It's one of those things where I don't know that
those people necessarily enjoyed their stay as much as maybe
the orphans did. So I think it's why there's a
totally different vibe there. And of course just the simple
fact that so many people passed away there. We've come
across a few other situations. There's a one week in
the mid thirties the summer where they had like seven
(26:03):
residents pass away from a heat wave. It just literally
got up to like a hundred nine degrees for several
days in a row, and those residents were in the
building and they literally just you know, overheated to death.
And there there was a suicide on site one that
we know of. UM, some other situations, but you know,
there's plenty of life events that happened in those buildings,
so I don't think it should be all that surprising.
(26:24):
What would you say is the most common occurrences that
people report, either in the in in winery or just
in the buildings. UM. I think the two main things
are voices. It seems like there's a lot of situations
where you feel like you'll be in the building all
alone and you'll hear conversations down the hallways. It will
(26:45):
be more than one person. As you walk toward, it
just kind of goes away. The other thing is very
prevalent is footsteps in the other buildings. A lot of
times you can actually hear them. In some cases. It's
kind of weird because even though all the breed that's
on the floor wasn't there at the time those people
were there. In most cases, you can actually hear the floor,
(27:05):
you can hear the crunching, you can hear the noises,
which is probably unique. I don't know if that's common
or not, but I feel like that's something that doesn't
always happen. I feel like sometimes you'll have a normal
footstep if I despite the fact that there's kind of
free on the floor, that should be making a different town.
H It's such an interesting, um influx of visitors that
you have because you know, having visited many times, you
(27:27):
have people who are definitely there just to kind of
enjoy the winery and in the sceneries. It's beautiful, you know,
the land and everything in the views, and then you
definitely have the people that are there just to look
for ghosts. And how is that received in the community. Um,
you know, I think it's something they've grown accustomed to.
Even before we open the property, you know, there are
(27:49):
rumors of paranormal activity. I can say we didn't really
experience that much before. Um, you know, we were out
there more often, which would have been around two thousand
eight somewhere in that range. We didn't really experience that
much out there. To be honest with you, Once we
were out there more often, I think it became more obvious,
and it was a situation where, you know, we couldn't
really hide from it. There was so much talk in
(28:11):
the community. In a lot of cases, it's an institution
that a lot of people in the community were involved in.
I mean, people come in, you know, when they're tasting
tasting wine and things like that, and they'll tell stories
about you know, when I was a kid fifty years ago,
I used to come out and sing for the old
folks home for caroling, you know, or the boy Scouts
used to paint some kind of pesticide on the bottom
(28:33):
three feet of all the trees. You have painted trees
throughout the property, or all those kind of things, and
all those people came out, and so it's been such
an integral part of the community for so long. I
think at this point people are just glad that they're
able to come visit it again and and see the
history and all that kind of stuff. And and in
a lot of cases we have people who come multiple times,
and they keep bringing different people, and in some cases
(28:54):
they're just you know, they'll go out and do their
own tour and tell the history and we don't even
have to do the work for them. That is nice
to have. It is interesting because so many times when
we investigate places like that, you know, we don't ever
really get to talk to people who truly spent time there.
But that is one difference there that it was such
a huge part of the community for so long, Like
(29:15):
you have generations of people who either knew someone who
spent time there or who worked there. Because I know,
when we were filming Kindred, we kind of put a
call out at the last minute because we wanted to
kind of do this experiment and bring out people who
had some sort of attachment to the building, and we
got a huge response, Like it was not hard to
find people who had, you know, actually spend time in
(29:36):
those walls when it was functioning. Yeah, absolutely, so real talk.
How many times have your in guests left in the
middle of the night. We actually we actually keep a
running count and the current count is seventeen rooms I've
left in the middle of the night so far. So
and that's in four years time. So you know, about
(29:56):
every two to three months we get somebody who just
flat out all the building is done for the nights,
I don't want to stay here. There are other nights
or other situations where we do have you know, they
get freaked out, but maybe they don't leave. We had
one where there was a couple that was staying and
they woke up in the middle of the night and
had voices and one of the people felt somebody sitting
(30:18):
down on the bed next to where they were sleeping.
I said, they were done, and they went out to
the car, and the spouse was like, I'm all right
with that, and so the spouse actually stayed in the
room while the other person went out and slept in
the car for the last four hours. Oh my goodness.
They're lucky their marriage survived that, you know. And it's
(30:39):
funny because I started, uh, I started this podcast kind
of reading off some experiences because you have journals in
every room for people to you know, just you know,
write their experiences down, which is really great because we
always recommend that to people when they're researching their hauntings,
is to keep kind of a running log, and so
you have people doing that for you. But yeah, one
of them act she wasn't experience just like that. A
(31:02):
lot of people seem to feel someone sitting down on
their beds. You know, I know me personally, I always
stay in the bridal suite, of course, and that I've
had the bathroom light turned on and off in their
multiple times. And I've also had the door open and
clothes in there, and I've heard so many sounds. Like
I know, when I stay there, I'm not frightened in
(31:24):
the slightest, but I do usually wear ear plugs or
have a fan going so I don't have to hear
all the sounds that are happening around me, because I
swear I've heard footsteps there a few times too. Yeah,
they have. UM. There was one couple that was in
there that um. As you know, our rooms are next
each other, our standard rooms are next to each other,
and so they were staying in room nine, which is
(31:46):
right next room seven. And in the morning they came
out and I said hi and greeted them and asked
asked them how their night was, and they said, well,
it was fine until their neighbors started making a bunch
of noise and said, oh, that's terrible what happened. So
they talked about it. I think it was like four
in the morning they heard footsteps next door and a
bunch of talking, and they were annoyed, and I even
(32:07):
got the impression that maybe they were going to ask
for some money back or something like that, because they
were so frustrated with the situation. And I said, well,
let me check, and so I went over to the
computer and pulled it up. There was nobody staying in
Room seven the entire night. We didn't have a key
out for that. And I said, I don't have anybody
in that room. I said, there's literally nobody there, and
and I said, I feel free to take a peek.
(32:28):
And they came around and looked and realized that there
was nobody in that room, and they actually apologized to
me on the spot and said, I am so sorry.
Apparently we got what we're looking for and we just
didn't know. It's I think that hotels sometimes worry about
having that reputation, and I'm constantly explaining to them that
it's very rare that that is going to stop from
someone from staying in a hotel. It might make them
(32:51):
leave in the middle of the night, but even that's
pretty rare. Yes, yes, absolutely, we have. Generally speaking, it's
been a very positive experience as far as that goes. Now,
I feel as though the Morgue to me in the
nursing home, and then I would say probably out. I
can't even pick which spot is the most active paranormally
(33:12):
speaking to me, Um, I do know the morgue has
notoriously been a spot where I've had a male voice
down there talk to me. I've had something grabbed my
arm down there. Chip Coffee famously had his arm grabbed
in the morgue. What spot do you think has kind
of the most extreme activity, um, I would say that
(33:35):
morgue as well, actually, and some of it I would
attribute to when I go down there, I just don't
feel comfortable in any way, shape or form. I mean,
it's a situation where it's cold, it's clammy. There's literally
like doors all around you. You know, there's kind of
that central area where there's you know, everywhere you look
there's a door staring at you. It's a it's total darkness.
(33:56):
You know, even one of the doors that has nurses
locker room where you know they're still closed in there
from forty years ago. And let the left there like
just happened yesterday almost and you know, all that just
kind of there's a big vibe down there, and you
can just feel it almost feels like a buzz. I
just don't I don't like it much. I mean, I'm
happy to go in most the areas, and I'll go
(34:17):
into the morgue as well, but you know, I won't
go down there unless I have. Yeah, there's times where
we're doing events. They are a group investigations, and you know,
I've had to move from like point A to point
B by myself. And you know, I have this thing
I do when I'm in a really haunted space and
I'm nervous, which I get nervous. I can't help it,
(34:37):
especially when you've been grabbed in the dark by something
you can't see. But I tend to whistle or hum
because I feel like nothing bad can happen. And so
if I'm whistling or humming in a cheerful way, because
it's quicker sometimes to go through the morgue to get
to the you know, because sometimes there's people up on
the upper level or that door's locked, and so whenever
(34:58):
I have to do that, I'm like humming and whistling
and rushing through there as quick as I can. And
that's the one spot that I do that, so, you know,
and I think that, having investigated there so many times,
I do think that there is something to the idea,
like we explored on the episode of Kindred we did there,
that people start kind of bringing that energy with them,
and people investigate there so often that certain areas that
(35:22):
get that reputation they almost kind of perpetuate that energy
and it stays there. And and the morgue and the
nursing home in particular, I think are perfect examples of that. Yeah,
and I get a heavy feeling of in that In
that building as well, I'm always looking over my shoulder
and it's not a it's not a situation where you're like,
(35:43):
you know, a little freaked out kind of thing. I mean,
I've been there for almost three decades now, that seems
like forever. But I don't get freaked out easily. It doesn't.
It takes a lot for me to get freaked out.
But when you're in that building, it just really feels
like something's just standing over your shoulder. I mean, it's
I don't know how to explain it. That sounds weird
and ridiculous, but it's true. I Mean, it just totally
(36:05):
feels like something's watching you. Yeah, I mean, I can't
even begin to imagine who it could be. There's any
number of people it could be. We've we've done so
much digging, we've done so much historical research, We've gotten
so many names. We've actually had spirits there identify themselves
to us before. We we've had a spirit correct the
pronunciation of their name to us before. But whoever that
(36:29):
is in the nursing home and the morgue, they remain anonymous.
They won't tell us really much of anything, and they
seem to just kind of exists there, and they tend
to scare people a lot. Well, I think that that's
it for now, unless there's anything you want anyone to
know about investigating there, any activity that happens there, Like
(36:49):
if there's any message you want to get across to
people who plan on visiting, this is a good time
to do that. No, not really. I mean, you know,
most people realize it's really tough to investigate the wider
in the most part because our tours that we have
they sell out really quickly. You know, hopefully everyone gets
the opportunity that wants to eventually, But I mean it's
a it's a wonderful place to visit. It. It's a
(37:11):
wonderful place to learn about a lot of history that
you wouldn't normally learn about um And I always tell people,
you know, paranormal activity is a great way to teach
people about history without them necessarily knowing that you're teaching
them something. I mean, if we just had buildings and
we were telling them about the Odd Fellows, they wouldn't
pay attention. But when we talk about the Odd Fellows
and their paranormal activity behind, it's suddenly everybody's very interesting
(37:32):
what's going on. So that's a great part of the
property and a great part of the learning experience. You
know that people enjoy when they come to the winery,
So I think that's fantastic. Well, thank you for your time.
I appreciate it everyone. I do encourage you to visit
the winery and in if you're in the area, or
make a special trip for it, because it's worth it.
There's so much to see and do nearby as well.
And you know, like I said in the beginning of
(37:55):
the interview, Jesse and his family and the winery all
have a very special place in my heart. It's place
unlike any other, so um highly recommend very haunted, lots
of great stories, lots of great history. So Jesse, thank
you so much. I super appreciate your time. I love
(38:18):
the evolution of the Odd Fellows complex, and I love
the acceptance of the owners in embracing their ghosts. But
over the years things have gotten a little darker in
certain corners of those crumbling buildings. Well, I don't think
the place is infested with demons or anything. I don't
think you can have a space like that with paranormal
investigators going in and out constantly, some terrified, some nervous,
(38:41):
some rehashing and discussing every tragedy or death that has
happened there without affecting the energy and the walls. It's
something we've seen time and time again with some of
these more well known locations. And while those thoughts are inevitable,
it also lends to a valuable lesson. If you believe
in the power of paul positive thought, then you should
also entertain the power of negative thought and what that
(39:04):
means when you walk the dark house of an old
hospital thinking about every bad thing that happened there. Let's
turn that around, shall we. I'm going to focus on
those cozy beds in the inn and of course the
great wine. Though I do recommend traveling with a good
pair of ear plugs should you stay at the end.
So until next time on Haunted Road, cheers. Haunted Road
(39:34):
is a production of I Heart Radio and Grimm and
Mild from Aaron Mankey. The podcast is written and hosted
by Amy Bruney. Executive producers include Aaron Manky, Alex Williams,
and Matt Frederick. The show is produced by rema Ill
Kali and Trevor Young. Taylor Haggerdorn is the show's researcher.
(39:54):
For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio
and Grim and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised.
I've got some stories to tell you. Each one of
(00:22):
these is an individual account. After awaking at one am
to use the bathroom, I settled back in our bed
and was nearly asleep when I felt someone sit on
the edge of the bed next to me. My eyes
flew open and I was unable to speak or move
my arms. I kicked my husband awake, and he held
me until I was calm once again. I'm Megan. I'm
(00:46):
eleven years old. My mom and I stayed in this room,
and we both watched her hair brush fly off the
desk when no one was near it. During the night,
I was awakened by a bell, not like a church
bell or a small tinkling bell, but more like the
sound of a bell at a store counter. The next day,
I woke up to the desk chair across the room
(01:09):
and pushed against the wall. My wife and I turned
the thermostat to seventy degrees before falling asleep. We both
awoke in the middle of the night to find the
room blazing hot. We threw off the covers and went
back to sleep. A few hours later, at four am,
I woke to find a small, blue eyed, blondhaired child
(01:29):
staring at me from my side of the bed. He disappeared,
and a few seconds later I heard a small child's
voice speaking from my wife's side of the bed. I
woke up in the middle of the night to see
the bathroom light on. I like to sleep in darkness,
so I got out of bed, walked across the room,
and turned the light off. After getting back in bed,
(01:52):
I rolled over to see the light was on again.
This time I stood up, and as I walked over,
I said, I'm trying to sleep, leave the light off, please.
I went back to bed, and then heard the soft
click of what sounded like my door opening and closing,
as though someone left because I clearly wasn't much fun.
(02:12):
That last story was mine, by the way, and every
one of these stories was taken from the bedside journals
kept at the Belvoir Winery and in in Liberty, Missouri,
a haunted winery. You ask, well, when it's a former
orphanage next door to a former nursing home, hospital, cemetery
and morgue that ups the anti unweather your winery is haunted,
so let's head to the Odd Fellows Complex. I'm Amy
(02:37):
Brunei and welcome to Haunted Road. Visit the sick, relieve
the distressed, bury the dead, and educate the orphan. That
was the official purpose of the Independent Order of the
(02:57):
Odd Fellows, which was founded by tom Us Wildy of
Baltimore in eighteen nineteen. The I O o F stemmed
from the eighteenth century Odd Fellows of English creation. Being
of fraternal order, Odd Fellowship is also known for their
mysterious and secretive rituals, including rites of initiation, a secret grip,
(03:18):
and secret passwords. The officers and members of the lodge
where regalia during closed ritual meetings. Most famously, each lodge
has an actual skeleton named George, used to symbolize members mortality.
The Fraternal Order first came to Missouri in eighteen thirty five,
and by the end of the century they built the
(03:38):
Odd Fellows Home, a two hundred forty acre complex. It
was a form of health and life insurance, and as
long as members had a good record, they could depend
on the Odd Fellows for help. The complex had its
own farm and expected those who could to work. It
also eventually had its own hospital, an orphanage school, nursing home,
(04:00):
and cemetery. Eighteen eighty seven was a great year for
Clay County, called the Great Boom. The community benefited from
the influx of real estate investment and construction. That year,
the Winner Hotel was built, but the plans didn't stop
with it. In eight eight the land was plotted to
be the home of Red Springs, a complex intended to
(04:21):
take advantage of nearby springs thought to be healing waters.
But by eighteen nine the plans hadn't borne much fruit
Besides the hotel and the owners finances were struggling. In
the midst of the healing waters interest in America, they
renamed the hotel the Read Springs Hotel in an attempt
to attract more visitors. One of those visitors was a
(04:43):
young Fellow who later became the Grand Master of the
Odd Fellows, Dr F. H. Matthews. In poor health, he
had gone to Read Springs Hotel for its healing waters.
His health restored, he married a young Liberty woman and
remained in Liberty to practice medicine. He later was physician
at the Odd Fellows Home for twenty three years. In
(05:03):
eighteen ninety seven, the real estate boom ended, but the
Odd Fellows had purchased the hotel in Acreage. In February
of nineteen hundred, the former Red Springs Hotel was then
being used as an Odd Fellows home, and in an
attempt to unthaw frozen pipes, the building caught fire and
burned to the ground. There were allegedly three hundred residents
(05:25):
on the property at the time, but miraculously all escaped.
Although the fire set the Odd Fellows back money and labor,
they took control of nearly two hundred fifty acres of farmland.
Adults and children, aided by the Odd Fellows, worked this
land and more or less made the home self sustaining.
What stands now as the Odd Fellows District was constructed
(05:46):
between nineteen hundred and nineteen thirty five. The establishment of
statewide homes as the Missouri Odd Fellows in Liberty was
viewed as a form of health and life insurance. As
long as members were in good standing, they could count
on the Odd Fellows taking care of them or their
family if misfortunes should arise. It seemed like a bold
and noble purpose, except eventually the Odd Fellows Home district
(06:10):
became outdated and the conditions people were kept in deteriorated. Originally,
the home was intended to represent modernity, cleanliness, and caretaking
until social programs took over in the nineteen thirties. Now
a little history on the buildings at the Odd Fellows Home.
The administration building was originally built in nineteen hundred house
(06:31):
all the inmates, employees, and functions of the complex. Now,
when I say inmate, I am using an old school
term to refer to the then current residence. The original
school building, now gone and replaced by the modern nursing
home in nineteen fifty five, was built in nineteen o four.
After that, the rooms in the administration building were reduced
(06:51):
in size to function as residences for elderly folks throughout
nineteen o seven and the following year. The Old Folks
Home was built in nineteen In twenty three, the old
hospital was added to the grounds. By the time it arrived,
there had been a need for its singular purpose since
nineteen o five. Because the Grand Lodge made it impossible
for the home to reject an applicant based on a
(07:13):
physical disability, many residents required hospital care beyond that provided
by the staff, nurse and doctor. The hospital was the
only medical facility in Liberty for quite some time, and
even had its own laboratory, but over time it too
became outdated, as the halls and doorways were not wide
enough for movement of hospital beds and equipment. As for residents,
(07:35):
the early years were marked by a greater number of
children versus adults. Around the time of the Great Depression, though,
adults began to outnumber the children. But along with the depression,
national efforts to start up social welfare programs marked the
beginning of the end for the home, at least as
it served the Odd Fellows. Also during the Depression, a
(07:55):
large number of non orphan children were admitted their families
were unable to care for them. In addition to education,
activities for the children included music, literature, radios, religious services,
holiday parties, and movie nights. To this day, people who
spent time at the Orphanage come back to visit, and
most recall having fond memories there. This may explain why
(08:18):
most every encounter with the ghosts of children here involves
playful activity and laughter. Now, as in life, so too
and death did the Odd Fellows aid their members a
cemetery plot, headstone and burial where yet another benefit provided
to their members. There is an on site cemetery at
the complex. Originally it began its tenure near the admin building,
(08:40):
but was moved to higher ground in nineteen eleven. The
cemetery contains the remains of nearly six hundred people. Over
the decades the Odd Fellows Home was an operation, it
is estimated as many as ten thousand people died there.
While many were expected as people were taken care of
in their later years, it's many were due to the
(09:01):
lack of adequate medical facilities in the early years and
then outdated facilities in its later years. There are also
newspaper records of at least a few suicides and accidents,
and a number of children are buried in the cemetery,
most likely victims of pneumonia or tuberculosis and with no
family or means to be buried elsewhere. In n the
(09:23):
Odd Fellows sold the property to the current owners. At
that time, every building had long been closed and out
of commission, other than the nursing home, which still had
a few remaining residents. Eventually, that too was shuttered, and
the new owners then turned the campus into a winery.
The district now totals thirty six acres. It is a dark,
(09:45):
looming set of buildings. The original orphanage is now operating
as the inn and winery, and as fate would have it,
is a popular wedding venue. Also in this building is
a large collection of antique Odd Fellows artifacts, including masks, robes,
and of course, their very own George. This skeleton dates
back to the eighties and belonged to an Odd Fellow
(10:07):
who bequeathed his remains first to science and then to
the I O O F for ritual use. Now, in
addition to educating folks on the history of the Odd Fellows,
he's a popular stop for selfies. Just next door sits
the dormant and quiet nursing home Basement Morgue still included,
and beyond that the old Folks Home and hospital. All
(10:28):
these buildings are wide open to the elements, as nature
is slowly taking over in some places, but it's not
hard to imagine what the complex look like in its heyday.
One thing is for sure, the Odd Fellows complex has
been rumored to be haunted for decades. Many locals have
stories of being dared to enter the buildings in their
teenaged years and having strange encounters. Former staff of the
(10:52):
nursing home, which remained open long after the other buildings
had closed, reports strange going on, especially on the night shift,
and of course the current employees have no shortage of
tales to tell visitors and guests. I should add the
place is now patrolled by security, so no more breaking
and entering, please. Even Jesse lime Killer, who I should
(11:13):
explain as a dear friend and CEO of the winery.
His wife, Melissa's father is the one who originally took
on the task of buying the complex, doesn't shy from
telling his ghost stories. Will be interviewing him in a bit,
but he has seen the apparition of a small child,
a woman, and a shadowed silhouette. He's also personally told
me numerous stories of voices and footsteps in the building
(11:35):
when he has been all alone. It's not unusual for
guests to report footsteps or to hear the pianos playing
on their own, have lights turn on and off, or
see doors slam. So now that you're an expert on
all things odd Fellows Home, let's have a chat with Jesse.
I actually met Jesse and his wife Melissa when we
filmed Ghost Hunters at the home so many years ago,
(11:58):
and we hit it off, Daly, I mean, of course
we did. A family who loves to travel and owns
a haunted winery. Let's just say we were fast friends.
(12:25):
Welcome to the show, Jesse, thank you for having me,
of course. So can you kind of explain how you
came into owning and running a haunted winery in sure? Yeah,
so my wife's parents, they originally acquired the property directly
from the odd Fellows, the odd Fellows that had the
property for about a hundred years, and we acquired it
(12:48):
in My in law's dream was to turn the winery property,
which it was actually just a nursing home, and at
that time they wanted to turn the proper me into
a winery and then a bed and breakfast as well,
and so we started making making those changes and renovating
just to make the winery and then eventually we've fulfilled
(13:09):
what they wanted and about the last five years we
completed the in as well, and now they have it
all m So can you just kind of explain who
the odd Fellows were? Yeah? So the odd Fellows is
a fraternal order and charitable order, much like the Mason, Shriners,
Knights of Columbus. Those type of groups, the lodges would
(13:29):
be located in each individual city, um they would be
everywhere the height of the organization, which was in the
thirties and the forties, and so they would have the
meetings in those lodges, and they would also hold the
rituals in those lodges, and the ritual was based on
Old and New Testament teachings, mainly the parable that goods
the Briton. And then in addition, they would also have
(13:51):
what they called Odd Fellows homes, and they were one
or two in each state, and their purpose was strictly charitable.
They were looking to take care of the orphans, take
care of the poor, how's retired people. And then also
in some cases they would have a hospital there as well. Okay,
so were these buildings where they open to just members
(14:11):
of the Odd Fellows or were these places that anyone
in the community could make use of, so a mixture
of both. They had the orphanage which could be open
to the public, and they were just there to take
care of anybody who needed help in that regard. Usually
it wasn't necessarily that the family was giving up the
orphan It was more a situation where, for example, in
(14:32):
the twenties thirties fourries, they couldn't always feed their family members,
all of them in some cases, and so they would
drop off, usually the younger members of the family. The
older families they would keep on the farm because they
were able to work, whereas the younger kids, they would
take them to these orphanages where they be fed and
taking care of and clothes, and then eventually when the
family got back on their feet, they would come back
(14:54):
and get the orphans. Hopefully. I didn't. I was not
aware of that. I just I feel like everybody assumes
orphans means no parents or no family. Yeah, yeah, in
some cases, I mean. And and it was kind of
weird too, because in the case of the orphanage, the
families would actually come visit them periodically in many cases,
um and so we have a lot of stories where,
(15:16):
for example, a family might have six kids and three
of them were at the orphanage, and then three of
them were at home working on the farm on the property,
and every two to three weeks the family would usually
come on a Sunday after church, they would come and
visit the other kids. They would hang out, they would
have a picnic, just do family things like everything was normal.
(15:36):
And then at the end of the afternoon, the family
would head back with the older kids back to the farm,
and then the younger kids would be left there for
another two to three weeks before they saw their family again.
It's it's so poor into what we think about now,
you know, as as as how things run. But at
the time that was that was very normal. That was
just a way that the private organizations helped people. But
(16:00):
it was just a way of life, and that was
how they survived during that time. So why Liberty, Like,
I know, when I when I get to the winery,
when will you arrive? It's really set away from everything,
you know. Is there a reason why they picked Liberty
in particular? So generally speaking, they obviously turned to try
(16:21):
to be relatively close to bigger cities, which obviously Kansas
City is only about oh fifteen minute drive twenty minute
drive tops. So what they would try to do is
get towards those big population centers where there was the
most need. In the case of Liberty, Liberty actually originally
was going to house a Mason's home there, and what
(16:41):
happened was is that deal fell through, and so then
the city of Liberty offered the odd Fellows seventeen thousand
dollars and that would have been which is a lot
of money back then. But they offered that money to
them and said, hey, will you come and take what
the building, which was basically a bankrupt hotel. And so
(17:01):
they had this large hotel on the edge of their
town and they wanted to do something with it, so
they offered them this money to come in and set
something up, and that's how they came to be at
the property. It was also really close to the river
and a major road which was nice as well, so
that's originally how they came to that property. Did you
ever have any connection to the Winter Hotel or the
(17:24):
Red Springs Hotel or anything like that. Yes, So that
was the hotel that I just spoke of that was bankrupt.
So it originally the original building was a wood structure
on the site and it was built in eighteen eighty.
It was called the Winter Hotel initially um and that
was the person that actually built it, and then later
it became the Red Springs Hotel as well. But there
(17:46):
was actually a full plan for the entire property. Originally
it was supposed to be a community with lots of
houses and businesses, and there was actually a horse racing
track out in front of the property that they did
actually build and was used for a period of time.
But all that was supposed to happen this giant community
just outside of Liberty, and then basically they built a hotel.
(18:07):
It did all right for about a decade, and then
there was a real estate crash early in the eighteen
nineties and the Mr Winner who owned the place, he
basically lost all his properties, and so that's how it
became a bankrupt hotel and became for sale, and that's
how the odd Fellows ended up with it. I see, now,
did that building burn down or is that one of
the structures that's still there? Correct? So the odd Fellows
(18:30):
got the property with the original hotel in and turned
that into an orphanage. And then on Valentine's Day nineteen hundred,
in that building, the cook who was there, they had
a frozen pipe and he wasn't able to do what
he needed to do to cook the meals, and so
he actually went down in the basement and was using
a blowtorch to heat the pipe, and part of the
(18:52):
blowtorch evidently caught part of that wood section on fire.
He didn't know it initially, that's what happened, and of
course it went up flames in a hurry because it
was a wood structure. And that's actually one of the
main reasons that the current building is built with, you know,
eighteen inch brick walls, because the odd fillo is to
not want that to happen again, and so they built
one of the most fire resistant structures in the United
(19:14):
States at that time because they didn't want to have
another wood truck that might go up again. Yes, so
we're the other buildings present when that Orphanage building was rebuilt.
The Orphanage building was the original building it was built
in that's also the current winery building. And then the
second building that was built was the schoolhouse next door.
(19:35):
It was built in nineteen o two. Then the old
Folks Home was built in nineteen o five, and then
finally the medical hospital at the far end it was
built in the early twenties. Okay, I just I noticed,
like when you when you go there, the Orphanage which
is now the winery is just it is in Obviously
(19:56):
it's in great shape because you guys did a lot
of renovating on it and things. But I feel like
that building has just kind of stood the test of
time better than some of the others because the other
ones are they're just wide open to the elements and
they it's so surreal because you roll up there and
you see this big, you know, structure, and then you
see these other structures around it that are covered in
(20:17):
vines and are wide open, and just it looks like
it should be haunted. And you would never expect to
walk into to the winery building and find this like
beautifully restored you know, obviously the winery and the bar,
and then upstairs this beautiful in I don't know, I
always feel like it's just such a contrast between that
building and the other buildings and how they have kind
(20:37):
of fared over the years. Yeah, and it's a it's
a lesson obviously and kind of choose your poison as
far as you know, when you're dealing with these properties.
You know, we've spent a few million on the building
that we do have, you know, but it literally if
we want to do all the buildings, it literally costs
like tens of millions of dollars, and a lot of
people are wondering, you know, well, why don't you restore
them all? It's like, well, they cost a lot of
(20:59):
money to make to make history happen in those cases,
and so you know, as much as we'd like to
just blow right through them and do them all, you
kind of have to stagger it so that you're able
to afford it and not go you know, like Mr
Winner go bankrupt in the process. Exactly, exactly. Now, let's
talk about just you know, why it's haunted over the
years throughout those buildings. How many people do you think
(21:22):
passed away on that property? The off Fellows have just
over ten thou recorded deaths on site. Most of those
are obviously in the nursing home, the old folks home,
in the hospital. You know, I mean the hospital for
the first half of the last century. It wasn't always
a place that you were cured. Sometimes in some cases
it was a place where you were just brought to
be comfortable. You know, they didn't have things like antibiotics
(21:44):
and stuff like that for a long period of time,
and so stuff that you know, we cure easily, they
it wasn't cured easily back then. And then in addition,
there were lots of residents. I mean, between the nursing
home and the old Folks Home, there's about two rooms
in those two buildings, so you can imagine how many
people were going in and out. And it wasn't a
(22:05):
situation where they had a lot of long term residents. Necessarily,
they were coming in out relatively quickly. And in fact,
we have the cemetery on site which acts about six
hundred graves. And it's easy to see too if you
go up there that most of the graves that are
up there, I think there's only about five orphans or
something like that. Most of the graves up there are
people who lived into their eighties and nineties, and we
(22:26):
don't always think about that because so many times, you know,
they tell people, oh, well, they didn't live as long
back then, but there was a lot of people that
did still live that long, and so a lot of
those people up there have lived a long life and
and passed away on the property. Yeah, and it sounds
like when it was built, it was it was state
of the art, but then at some point it kind
of started falling behind, you know, was there kind of
(22:49):
a shift or turn as far as the conditions there
at some point. Yeah, the first shift, the major shift
that happened was, you know, when you have federal government
takes over things like well fair and child protective services.
For many years, these kind of places provided those kind
of services, and the ones that that change took place
in the federal government started covering some of those kind
(23:09):
of things, there was no need for those things there.
As a result, there was a situation where something that
was a stream of revenue that was providing maintenance in
a lot of cases suddenly wasn't there anymore, and your
left basically with a nursing home at that point. And
while you know, theoretically you could do that, it's much
more difficult to run that kind of a property with
that size where it's only a nursing home in a
(23:32):
lot of cases. To the odd fellows, they would pay
a stipend throughout their life as an odd Fellow, and
then if they paid for a certain number of years,
they would get free retirement at the site. While that
was a great idea in principle, what happened was as
you go along, they didn't get as many new members
coming in and so as a result, there was less
(23:52):
of a revenue stream coming in to support all these
people being taken care of at the nursing home, and
as a result, you know, then they suddenly had these
behemoth properties with not enough revenue coming in to support them.
And so it seems like probably the closures were sort
of staggers, and then, like you said before, by the
time your wife's family purchased at it was just the
(24:14):
nursing home and operation. Correct. Yeah, correct, there's only one
building in operation at that time, and I think there
was only about fifteen residents there, so it's not very many.
And in fact, the building where the winery is it
was actually closed for no I'd say, about five to
eight years before we even got it as well, so
it was already in somewhat of a stated decay and
(24:36):
we were we got it in and restarted from the
studs basically. So why why do you think Why do
you think it's haunted? Um? I think it's a mixture
of things. UM. In the winery building, I don't think.
I don't feel like it's a situation where it's a
threatening thing in any way. It's more playful usually, which
(24:58):
makes sense. I mean, there's mostly kids there in some cases.
I mean, most of the residents that were there that
we've met who used to be orphans, they said it
was actually a nice place to stay. They were well
taken care of, and they didn't really have any issues
with staying there other than the fact they would have
rather been home with their families obviously. But you know,
I think I think some of them actually had some
(25:19):
good times with some good friends there and and still
enjoy it. And there were a few that passed away there.
I mean, it does happened. As far as the other buildings,
you know, it's more old age and those kind of things.
A lot of those buildings, it's more of a vibe
like they don't want you there. It's kind of like
grumpy old people kind of thing where you don't feel
(25:40):
welcome there necessarily just because they'd rather not have you there.
It's one of those things where I don't know that
those people necessarily enjoyed their stay as much as maybe
the orphans did. So I think it's why there's a
totally different vibe there. And of course just the simple
fact that so many people passed away there. We've come
across a few other situations. There's a one week in
the mid thirties the summer where they had like seven
(26:03):
residents pass away from a heat wave. It just literally
got up to like a hundred nine degrees for several
days in a row, and those residents were in the
building and they literally just you know, overheated to death.
And there there was a suicide on site one that
we know of. UM, some other situations, but you know,
there's plenty of life events that happened in those buildings,
so I don't think it should be all that surprising.
(26:24):
What would you say is the most common occurrences that
people report, either in the in in winery or just
in the buildings. UM. I think the two main things
are voices. It seems like there's a lot of situations
where you feel like you'll be in the building all
alone and you'll hear conversations down the hallways. It will
(26:45):
be more than one person. As you walk toward, it
just kind of goes away. The other thing is very
prevalent is footsteps in the other buildings. A lot of
times you can actually hear them. In some cases. It's
kind of weird because even though all the breed that's
on the floor wasn't there at the time those people
were there. In most cases, you can actually hear the floor,
(27:05):
you can hear the crunching, you can hear the noises,
which is probably unique. I don't know if that's common
or not, but I feel like that's something that doesn't
always happen. I feel like sometimes you'll have a normal
footstep if I despite the fact that there's kind of
free on the floor, that should be making a different town.
H It's such an interesting, um influx of visitors that
you have because you know, having visited many times, you
(27:27):
have people who are definitely there just to kind of
enjoy the winery and in the sceneries. It's beautiful, you know,
the land and everything in the views, and then you
definitely have the people that are there just to look
for ghosts. And how is that received in the community. Um,
you know, I think it's something they've grown accustomed to.
Even before we open the property, you know, there are
(27:49):
rumors of paranormal activity. I can say we didn't really
experience that much before. Um, you know, we were out
there more often, which would have been around two thousand
eight somewhere in that range. We didn't really experience that
much out there. To be honest with you, Once we
were out there more often, I think it became more obvious,
and it was a situation where, you know, we couldn't
really hide from it. There was so much talk in
(28:11):
the community. In a lot of cases, it's an institution
that a lot of people in the community were involved in.
I mean, people come in, you know, when they're tasting
tasting wine and things like that, and they'll tell stories
about you know, when I was a kid fifty years ago,
I used to come out and sing for the old
folks home for caroling, you know, or the boy Scouts
used to paint some kind of pesticide on the bottom
(28:33):
three feet of all the trees. You have painted trees
throughout the property, or all those kind of things, and
all those people came out, and so it's been such
an integral part of the community for so long. I
think at this point people are just glad that they're
able to come visit it again and and see the
history and all that kind of stuff. And and in
a lot of cases we have people who come multiple times,
and they keep bringing different people, and in some cases
(28:54):
they're just you know, they'll go out and do their
own tour and tell the history and we don't even
have to do the work for them. That is nice
to have. It is interesting because so many times when
we investigate places like that, you know, we don't ever
really get to talk to people who truly spent time there.
But that is one difference there that it was such
a huge part of the community for so long, Like
(29:15):
you have generations of people who either knew someone who
spent time there or who worked there. Because I know,
when we were filming Kindred, we kind of put a
call out at the last minute because we wanted to
kind of do this experiment and bring out people who
had some sort of attachment to the building, and we
got a huge response, Like it was not hard to
find people who had, you know, actually spend time in
(29:36):
those walls when it was functioning. Yeah, absolutely, so real talk.
How many times have your in guests left in the
middle of the night. We actually we actually keep a
running count and the current count is seventeen rooms I've
left in the middle of the night so far. So
and that's in four years time. So you know, about
(29:56):
every two to three months we get somebody who just
flat out all the building is done for the nights,
I don't want to stay here. There are other nights
or other situations where we do have you know, they
get freaked out, but maybe they don't leave. We had
one where there was a couple that was staying and
they woke up in the middle of the night and
had voices and one of the people felt somebody sitting
(30:18):
down on the bed next to where they were sleeping.
I said, they were done, and they went out to
the car, and the spouse was like, I'm all right
with that, and so the spouse actually stayed in the
room while the other person went out and slept in
the car for the last four hours. Oh my goodness.
They're lucky their marriage survived that, you know. And it's
(30:39):
funny because I started, uh, I started this podcast kind
of reading off some experiences because you have journals in
every room for people to you know, just you know,
write their experiences down, which is really great because we
always recommend that to people when they're researching their hauntings,
is to keep kind of a running log, and so
you have people doing that for you. But yeah, one
of them act she wasn't experience just like that. A
(31:02):
lot of people seem to feel someone sitting down on
their beds. You know, I know me personally, I always
stay in the bridal suite, of course, and that I've
had the bathroom light turned on and off in their
multiple times. And I've also had the door open and
clothes in there, and I've heard so many sounds. Like
I know, when I stay there, I'm not frightened in
(31:24):
the slightest, but I do usually wear ear plugs or
have a fan going so I don't have to hear
all the sounds that are happening around me, because I
swear I've heard footsteps there a few times too. Yeah,
they have. UM. There was one couple that was in
there that um. As you know, our rooms are next
each other, our standard rooms are next to each other,
and so they were staying in room nine, which is
(31:46):
right next room seven. And in the morning they came
out and I said hi and greeted them and asked
asked them how their night was, and they said, well,
it was fine until their neighbors started making a bunch
of noise and said, oh, that's terrible what happened. So
they talked about it. I think it was like four
in the morning they heard footsteps next door and a
bunch of talking, and they were annoyed, and I even
(32:07):
got the impression that maybe they were going to ask
for some money back or something like that, because they
were so frustrated with the situation. And I said, well,
let me check, and so I went over to the
computer and pulled it up. There was nobody staying in
Room seven the entire night. We didn't have a key
out for that. And I said, I don't have anybody
in that room. I said, there's literally nobody there, and
and I said, I feel free to take a peek.
(32:28):
And they came around and looked and realized that there
was nobody in that room, and they actually apologized to
me on the spot and said, I am so sorry.
Apparently we got what we're looking for and we just
didn't know. It's I think that hotels sometimes worry about
having that reputation, and I'm constantly explaining to them that
it's very rare that that is going to stop from
someone from staying in a hotel. It might make them
(32:51):
leave in the middle of the night, but even that's
pretty rare. Yes, yes, absolutely, we have. Generally speaking, it's
been a very positive experience as far as that goes. Now,
I feel as though the Morgue to me in the
nursing home, and then I would say probably out. I
can't even pick which spot is the most active paranormally
(33:12):
speaking to me, Um, I do know the morgue has
notoriously been a spot where I've had a male voice
down there talk to me. I've had something grabbed my
arm down there. Chip Coffee famously had his arm grabbed
in the morgue. What spot do you think has kind
of the most extreme activity, um, I would say that
(33:35):
morgue as well, actually, and some of it I would
attribute to when I go down there, I just don't
feel comfortable in any way, shape or form. I mean,
it's a situation where it's cold, it's clammy. There's literally
like doors all around you. You know, there's kind of
that central area where there's you know, everywhere you look
there's a door staring at you. It's a it's total darkness.
(33:56):
You know, even one of the doors that has nurses
locker room where you know they're still closed in there
from forty years ago. And let the left there like
just happened yesterday almost and you know, all that just
kind of there's a big vibe down there, and you
can just feel it almost feels like a buzz. I
just don't I don't like it much. I mean, I'm
happy to go in most the areas, and I'll go
(34:17):
into the morgue as well, but you know, I won't
go down there unless I have. Yeah, there's times where
we're doing events. They are a group investigations, and you know,
I've had to move from like point A to point
B by myself. And you know, I have this thing
I do when I'm in a really haunted space and
I'm nervous, which I get nervous. I can't help it,
(34:37):
especially when you've been grabbed in the dark by something
you can't see. But I tend to whistle or hum
because I feel like nothing bad can happen. And so
if I'm whistling or humming in a cheerful way, because
it's quicker sometimes to go through the morgue to get
to the you know, because sometimes there's people up on
the upper level or that door's locked, and so whenever
(34:58):
I have to do that, I'm like humming and whistling
and rushing through there as quick as I can. And
that's the one spot that I do that, so, you know,
and I think that, having investigated there so many times,
I do think that there is something to the idea,
like we explored on the episode of Kindred we did there,
that people start kind of bringing that energy with them,
and people investigate there so often that certain areas that
(35:22):
get that reputation they almost kind of perpetuate that energy
and it stays there. And and the morgue and the
nursing home in particular, I think are perfect examples of that. Yeah,
and I get a heavy feeling of in that In
that building as well, I'm always looking over my shoulder
and it's not a it's not a situation where you're like,
(35:43):
you know, a little freaked out kind of thing. I mean,
I've been there for almost three decades now, that seems
like forever. But I don't get freaked out easily. It doesn't.
It takes a lot for me to get freaked out.
But when you're in that building, it just really feels
like something's just standing over your shoulder. I mean, it's
I don't know how to explain it. That sounds weird
and ridiculous, but it's true. I Mean, it just totally
(36:05):
feels like something's watching you. Yeah, I mean, I can't
even begin to imagine who it could be. There's any
number of people it could be. We've we've done so
much digging, we've done so much historical research, We've gotten
so many names. We've actually had spirits there identify themselves
to us before. We we've had a spirit correct the
pronunciation of their name to us before. But whoever that
(36:29):
is in the nursing home and the morgue, they remain anonymous.
They won't tell us really much of anything, and they
seem to just kind of exists there, and they tend
to scare people a lot. Well, I think that that's
it for now, unless there's anything you want anyone to
know about investigating there, any activity that happens there, Like
(36:49):
if there's any message you want to get across to
people who plan on visiting, this is a good time
to do that. No, not really. I mean, you know,
most people realize it's really tough to investigate the wider
in the most part because our tours that we have
they sell out really quickly. You know, hopefully everyone gets
the opportunity that wants to eventually, But I mean it's
a it's a wonderful place to visit. It. It's a
(37:11):
wonderful place to learn about a lot of history that
you wouldn't normally learn about um And I always tell people,
you know, paranormal activity is a great way to teach
people about history without them necessarily knowing that you're teaching
them something. I mean, if we just had buildings and
we were telling them about the Odd Fellows, they wouldn't
pay attention. But when we talk about the Odd Fellows
and their paranormal activity behind, it's suddenly everybody's very interesting
(37:32):
what's going on. So that's a great part of the
property and a great part of the learning experience. You
know that people enjoy when they come to the winery,
So I think that's fantastic. Well, thank you for your time.
I appreciate it everyone. I do encourage you to visit
the winery and in if you're in the area, or
make a special trip for it, because it's worth it.
There's so much to see and do nearby as well.
And you know, like I said in the beginning of
(37:55):
the interview, Jesse and his family and the winery all
have a very special place in my heart. It's place
unlike any other, so um highly recommend very haunted, lots
of great stories, lots of great history. So Jesse, thank
you so much. I super appreciate your time. I love
(38:18):
the evolution of the Odd Fellows complex, and I love
the acceptance of the owners in embracing their ghosts. But
over the years things have gotten a little darker in
certain corners of those crumbling buildings. Well, I don't think
the place is infested with demons or anything. I don't
think you can have a space like that with paranormal
investigators going in and out constantly, some terrified, some nervous,
(38:41):
some rehashing and discussing every tragedy or death that has
happened there without affecting the energy and the walls. It's
something we've seen time and time again with some of
these more well known locations. And while those thoughts are inevitable,
it also lends to a valuable lesson. If you believe
in the power of paul positive thought, then you should
also entertain the power of negative thought and what that
(39:04):
means when you walk the dark house of an old
hospital thinking about every bad thing that happened there. Let's
turn that around, shall we. I'm going to focus on
those cozy beds in the inn and of course the
great wine. Though I do recommend traveling with a good
pair of ear plugs should you stay at the end.
So until next time on Haunted Road, cheers. Haunted Road
(39:34):
is a production of I Heart Radio and Grimm and
Mild from Aaron Mankey. The podcast is written and hosted
by Amy Bruney. Executive producers include Aaron Manky, Alex Williams,
and Matt Frederick. The show is produced by rema Ill
Kali and Trevor Young. Taylor Haggerdorn is the show's researcher.
(39:54):
For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I
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