September 9, 2025 • 70 mins
Join Joseph as they sit with producer Wellington Love and Presiding Pelate of the Unity Fellowship Church Movement, Rt. Beatitude Zachary G. Jones as they discuss the life and legacy of Archbishop Carl Bean who is being celebrated through the new documentary BORN THIS WAY. Find Joseph on IG/X/Threads @josephtheythem and on Buesky @josephtheythem.bsky.social. Email your praise reports and prayer requests to josephreaves@iheartmedia.com so we can shout you out on the show! HELLA BLACK, HELLA QUEER, HELLA CHRISTIAN is an iHeart podcast apart of the Outspoken! Network which seeks to amplify LGBTQ voice in podcasting. Please Like, Comment, Share, Rate and Subscribe!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hella Black, Hella Queer, Hello Christian is a production of
iHeart podcast on the Outspoken Network, which seeks to amplify
LGBTQ voices in podcasting. Hello all, and welcome to another
episode of Hella Black, Hello Queer, Hello Christian. Before we
(00:23):
get into this week's episode, I just had a quick
announcement that I did want to share with you because
not too long after this episode was recorded, one of
our guests, Right be Attitude, Zachary G. Jones, they unfortunately
launched their mother, Mother Maggie Jones, and I just wanted
(00:46):
to do a quick PSA to honor that and to
send our condolences and prayers to be Attitude Jones. And
I'm just gonna read a little bit of what has
been released from the leadership of the Unity Fellowship Church movement.
So the Unity Fellowship Church Movement shares in the celebration
(01:06):
of life and honors are Community Mother Maggie Jones born
nineteen twenty nine Transition twenty twenty five, mother of r
Presiding Prelate the Right Beatitude, Zachary G. Jones. She was
welcomed into the Eternal College of Monarchs on Tuesday, August
the twenty seventh, at five forty eight am. Mother Jones
(01:29):
was born in rural Mississippi during the US Great Depression.
She grew up in the Jim Jane Crow era and
was a strong supporter of equality during the Civil Rights Movement.
Mother Jones had a career as a LVN and worked
as a phlebotomy specialist at Los Angeles County General Hospital
for over forty years. Mother Jones's love for her family
(01:54):
and community was felt in every life she touched. A
mother of six children, grandmother, and great grandmother. She served
her community through her home church, Morning Star Missionary Baptist
Church in Los Angeles, USCM claimed Mother Jones is their
own mother for years as she shared wisdom and words
of faith with all of us. So once again, do
(02:17):
want to send prayers to the Unity Fellowship Church family nationwide?
Do you want to send prayers to write Beatitude Jones?
And as we always do, we are going to take
a brief moment of silence just to honor Mother Jones.
So she passed away at ninety six, So we are
going to take a minute and thirty six seconds just
(02:39):
to do a moment of silence for her. Starting now,
(04:21):
Mother Jones. Thank you so much for your life. Mother Jones,
thank you for what you gave us through your son,
The right Beatitude. Zachary G. Jones, Congratulations, you have been elevated.
You have moved on up a little bit higher. You
have packed up your tent and moved on from labor
to reward, and you now rest as ancestor. Enjoy your
(04:45):
new office and your new mansion. Show me how good
is gonna get today? God, dear universe, you have permission
to amaze me today. I am a beautiful and blue
bless being who deserves great things always. I love my
life and I am thankful for my life. I am
(05:08):
safe and I have everything I need. Something amazing is
going to happen for me today. Show me how could
it's going to get today? God, dear universe, you have
permission to amaze me today. I am a beautiful and
blessed being who deserves great things always. I love my
(05:28):
life and I am thankful for my life. I am
safe and I have everything I need. Something amazing is
happening for me today. Show me how could it's going
to get today? God, dear Universe, you have permission to
amaze me today. I am a beautiful and blessed being
(05:48):
who deserves great things always. I love my life and
I am thankful for my life. I am safe and
I have everything I need. Something amid amazing is happening
for me today. Show me how good is going to
get today. God, dear universe, you have permission to amaze
me today. I am a beautiful and blessed being who
(06:12):
deserves great things always. I love my life and I
am thankful for my life. I am safe and I
have everything I need. Something amazing is happening for me today,
(06:39):
walking through life and Nature's disguise.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah, you laugh at me and you criticized. Yeah, because
I'm happy, carefree and gay.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yes I'm gay. Ain't no fault. It's a fact I
was born this way. Now, I won't judge you. Don't
you judge me. We're all away, nature managed to be.
I'm happy. I'm carefrey and nongay. I was born this way.
(07:47):
I'm happy I'm carefrey and nongay. I was born this way.
I'm happy, I'm carefrey and gay. I was born this away.
I'm happy caffrey and I'm gay. Hello, family and friends,
(08:13):
it is Joseph Rees once again and We are here
for another episode of Hella Black, Hello Queer, Hello Christian,
a fully black, fully queer, fully human, fully divine podcast
around society, culture, and other conversations that I am looking
to have with my amazing friends. And the song that
(08:37):
I let in with this week was a song called
I Was Born This Way by Carl Bean, who would
become the Archbishop called Bean of the Unity Fellowship Church.
It was a disco record that was released in the
mid seventies under Motown Records, and it was one of
(09:00):
the first, if not the first, explicitly gay pride anthems
put to wax because so many of our gay pride
anthems up until that point, and even after that point
we're very coded. But this explicitly said it. And I
remember finding out about this song, or really finding out
(09:26):
about Archbishop Bean, through James or Hardy's the second installment
in James or Hardy's Be Boy Blues series second time around,
because there is a scene where one of the couple's
Beady and Babyface, they get married, and they get married
at this church in Brooklyn called Unity Fellowship of Christ Church,
(09:53):
which was which was and is a historically black, lesbian,
gay bisexual and transgender, their congregation and denomination. And at
this time I'm reading this in two thousand and two,
so I am seventeen years old. I am a young
homosexual who is just happy to be somewhere, and I
(10:16):
am just taking in all the knowledge I can about myself,
as I have finally begun to name that which was
whispered and named about me by others for so long.
So first read B Boy Blues by James or Hardy,
and then of course read second time around when I
found out there was a whole series, and at first
(10:37):
I thought, no, this has to be something that James
are Hardy made up. This isn't something that can actually exist.
But I just thought I'll goog ill. Well, no it
wasn't Google, because I only think Google was out at
that time, but whatever the search engine was, I got
(10:59):
on the family computer and I just searched it, and
lo and behold, I found out that the Unity Fellowship
of Christ Church was an actual, real deal thing, and
it was a denomination where God is love and love
is for everyone, and they did indeed have a congregation
(11:23):
in Brooklyn. So July fast forward to July fourth weekend,
two thousand and three. The summer before my senior year
of high school. I was in upstate New York at
the time, but went down to the city because there
was this hip hop concert that I wanted to go to,
(11:43):
the rock to mic tour. It was fifty cent jay
Z Busta rhymes Missy Elliott and Fabulous, and I said,
since I was already going to be in Long Island,
the concert was that Monday. That Sunday, after I visited
my home church, I was going to hop on the
Long Island railroad and make my way out to Brooklyn
(12:05):
so I could visit this church. And I did so,
and I walked past the church about three or four
times until I realized, no, this is the actual church.
It's almost like it was a garage that y'all made
into a church. But I saw the banner and I
(12:25):
went in and I got to experience that first service,
and then for a couple of years, I just made
sure that Unity Fellowship was where I went for Easter
Sunday service, and then from there I would come back
into my faith as an openly gay Christian. From there,
you know, I would join Concord in Brooklyn from there,
(12:47):
and then when I came to DC, would be part
of Ranking Chapel at Howard University for a number of
years as a chapel assistant, and then you know, now
I've been a member of Alfred Street Baptist Church for
the past twelve years. But for me, the journey of
choosing Christ for myself as an adult and it not
just being the thing that my mother made me a
(13:10):
tend church really started at Unity Fellowship Church on Atlantic Avenue.
It was Unity Fellowship was the first place I shouted
as someone who was raised Presbyterian. So really, in so
many ways, there would be no hell of Black, Hello Queer,
Hello Christian if it were not for Archbishop Called Bean
(13:31):
and the Unity Fellowship of Christ's movement. And there is
this wonderful documentary that I had the privilege of seeing
earlier this summer, which documents the life of Archbishop Bean
and documents the life and the Unity Fellowship movement. And
(13:53):
I was just convicted, and I just knew that in
this inaugural season of this podcast, there was some people
that I needed to tell thank you, and Archbishop Carl
Bean and the Unity Fellowship Church was on that list
of folks that I needed to tell thank you by
(14:14):
giving them an episode. And I have two very special
guests that are connected to the documentary and are connected
and are connected to your Unity Fellowship. I have Wellington
Love and I have Beattitude Zachary Jones online, and I'm
going to ask for them to come in and introduce themselves,
(14:36):
share their pronouns and anything else that they would like
to share as for as an introduction, well Aton, we
will start with you, and then be Attitude Jones we
can conclude with you.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Thank you so much, Joseph for that beautiful introduction about
carl Bean Unity Fellowship and for having us here today.
I'm Willington Love and I am the the lead producer
on the new documentary I Was Born this Way, which
basically walks you through the incredible life, journey and legacy
(15:11):
of Archbishop Carlbeing and all the amazing contributions he's made
to our culture, our society, to the LGBTQ community. Thank
you for having me.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
You're more than welcome. Thank you for being here.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Good afternoon. It is just such a joy. Joseph. Your
story is incredible. Thank you for sharing it and just
being so clear about your journey. Your journey has I
think a slice of all of us in it somewhere,
and so it really is amazing how many of us
(15:51):
get a chance to talk about our historical journey around
come into ourselves and identifying who we finally became in
our evolution. I am the Attitude Zachary G. Jones. Beatitude
is a title that I took on because when the
Archbiship passed away, the organization agreed that the title of
(16:15):
the founder would also go away with him. A lot
of people like be Attitude.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
What is that?
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Well, it happens to be part of Jesus' first sermon.
They are the Beatitudes. And it's amazing how many Sunday
School folks from the old Church you know nothing about
them called it the Beattitude, or referred to as the Beatitudes.
And it is an Eastern Orthodox title for a senior
clergy person, and because it was really fresh to the West,
(16:46):
I really enjoyed it. And the Beatitudes were my favorite
passages of scripture when I was a kid, so it
just felt like it fit. Gave me a challenge to
live up to the image of the Beatitudes, and that's
why my title is what it is. I was there
at the Archbishop's right hand. We were friends and I
(17:09):
missed my friends so terribly, so I just I miss him.
I miss him. I miss him. But we were good friends.
We had no idea where the work would go. When
it started. He found I'd like to say we found
each other because I had already graduated from seminary and
from college. I had just exited a filmed marriage with
(17:33):
a female. Oh, by the way, my pronouns are he, him, her?
And after that film marriage, I was seeking a place.
I was seeking somewhere. I decided church was not going
to be my life anymore. I had grown up in
(17:53):
it and the hypocrisy and and just the lies. It
was it was time for that to cease in my life.
And I met a young man and we had a
wonderful relationship. He died of ates and I was devastating.
We were still in the very much the early stages.
I was devastating because we were going to be the
(18:14):
happy ever after couple. And finally I felt like I
had found what God had given me. And so when
he died, I sought after a small church of maybe
about six people on Washington Boulevard in Los Angeles at
the Ebony Showcase and yeah, they were, and revn Bean
(18:38):
at the time I was preaching like he had a
room full of people. And I certainly kept growing up
in the church scene in Los Angeles, knew pretty much
how little churches flow. And it made my decision that
I'm not going to be the usher require remember that
da dah da da, I'm not because they will work
you to death. And I was like done. So I
(18:59):
went because of free recommended and he was actually a
possible date and I felt like, Okay, if I do this,
I have a better chance of maybe getting together with him.
But I was so mesmerized when I went. Carl's message
(19:19):
was everything that I had believed in argued about in seminary,
so on and so forth. And finally the history is here.
We duplicated that work in New York and the rest
is history. So that's kind of who I am and
how I came to be. And it was the best
(19:40):
decision that I made in my life.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Amen, thank you, thank you so much for sharing. I'm
already learning some things, some additional things that I didn't
already know. And then be Attitude Jones, you kind of
already took the first two questions, and I thank you
for that, No, thank you for that. I'm actually loving
(20:03):
the way that spirit is moving.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
We're going to pause for.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
A second, but don't go too far more of this conversation.
When we come back, you're listening to Hella Black, Hella Queer,
(20:43):
Hella Christian. So Wellington, you can kind of take these
first two questions to kind of elaborate and just share
your experience. So those first two questions for you, Wellington
are going to be when did you first hear of
archbishop called being in Unity Fellowship? And then what in inspired?
What was the zeitgeis for a documentary around Archbishop Bean's life.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
To be produced?
Speaker 3 (21:11):
First, the film itself was actually started about six years ago,
and it was one of the co directors, Daniel YOUNGI
who actually found the story found out about Archbishop Carlbean
while researching for another film project, and he worked on
(21:32):
it on his own with co directors Sam Pollard for
I don't know a year and a half nearly two years,
and the idea at that time was that it meant
it was meant to be a short film, a forty
five minute short film about Archbishop Carl Bean. I came
onto the project a little over four years ago, when
(21:57):
they were still in a sort of active fundraising mode
to try to get a little bit of money pulled
together to do a more polished edit so that they
could then fundraise off them. The the real that was
sent to me at the time was was what was
essentially like this hour long what we call a hero
(22:20):
interview of Archbishop Carl being just sitting just talking, telling
us about his life, telling us about his story from
you know, from his earliest days of being adopted by
his godparents, you know, through you know, through you know
all the loss and tragedy of losing his mother, and
(22:42):
you know, coming out and you know, you know, finding
his his his voice both musically and spiritually, you know,
through his journey as a you know, young gay man
coming into music, and then obviously his faith based work
is working aids. And so I sat watching this this
assembly and I was utterly mesmerized, because I'm embarrassed to
(23:07):
say that before then I didn't really know much about
Archbishop Carlbean. I knew the song a little bit, I think,
and I'm certainly of the age where I should have
known who he was, given that I was. I came
of age in New York City on the late early sorry,
the late eighties, early nineties, at the height of the
(23:27):
AIDS crisis, being very involved in act up, you know,
being very involved in making sort of counterculture you know,
LGBTQ media. But I am I am sad to say,
I didn't really know much about him, and come to
discover most of my you know, equally educated you know,
(23:49):
friends didn't know much about him. So first the early
Assembly was an introduction to a to a man, to
a world, to you know, a legacy that I that
I sadly didn't know much about. And before I could
finish watching the Assembly, I was dialing my friends asking
(24:11):
how can I help, you know, how can I be
a part of this? What can I do to help
move this project forward? And so bit by bit I
became much more involved in the film, not only on
the fundraising side, but the actual producing side of you know,
helping shape the story, figuring out you know, next steps.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
And at a certain point early on in my involvement
with the film, we realized there was absolutely no way
we could do justice to the Archbishop's story in a
short film. It had to be a feature, you know,
we had to We had to dig deeper in terms
of resources, finding money, you know, getting other voices involved,
(24:56):
getting other people involved, because we all, we had one
opportunity to get it right. We had one opportunity to
do justice to uh this man, and so that took
more time. And you know, we certainly had our ups
and downs over the over the course of the project.
(25:17):
You know, there was a time or two when we
thought we weren't going to ever you know, make it.
But you know, I have to say I feel like,
you know, Carl was with us, you know, through through
the journey that it took to get this story out
into the world. And so I it has been I
(25:38):
have learned so much, not only about Carl and what
he's done, but just about you know, I think about
I think about the climate and the culture, uh and
what's changed in the last four years. I mean, and
where we were four years ago. We had no idea,
(26:03):
certainly Daniel did when he started six years ago, and
certainly when I came on board two years later, which
was four years ago, that we would be in this
place where we are now, needing more than ever the
message of what Carl stood for. You know, you know,
(26:26):
God has love, love us for everyone. We need to
hear that more more than ever, you know, we need
to we need to we need to understand more about
what it means to be compassionate, what it means to
to to look after other people, what it means to
to UH, to preserve history, to teach history, to pass
(26:48):
things on, because we are seeing every day the the
the concerted efforts that the steps that are being made
to dismantle to a raise, to eradicate all the things
that Carl stood for. So so I I feel lucky.
I feel blessed that I got to be a part
(27:13):
of the story, to be a part of the big team,
you know, the team that came together, UH to make
this film, to make this happen, and and and and
also getting to know the attitude, getting to know more
about unity. You know, we have Carl's great niece, Corey Robinson,
who is an EP on the film. She's become a
(27:34):
dear friend. So anyway it has been it's it's it's
it's it's not only a film, but it's something that
has gone on to, you know, to continue to give.
You know, it continues to give and and and we
are hopefully just at the beginning of getting this film
out into the world so that more people, you know,
(27:56):
can learn about what this man did.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Hey man, thank you so much. And then on Beatitude Jones,
I want to bring you back in for this question.
And then Wellington you can share as well. What has
been the reception for the documentary so far.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Well, I'll go to the one that was most memorable,
because we've been in many cities around the globe, and
the most memorable is we were in London and Daniel John,
(28:32):
one of the directors of the film, came to me
at the end of the film and said, at the
end of the premiere actually and was almost apologizing because
we hadn't gotten the kind of the numbers of people
watching as we had in other places. And I had
(28:56):
to not correct him but share with him and experience
that I had with a one oh one conversation from
a young lady who I would say she might have
been twenty twenty one, and she came to me after
the panel. She was in tears. Of course, that grabbed
(29:16):
my attention immediately, like why is this woman crying? She
was in tears, and then she was talking to me
through her tears and she was saying to me, oh
my god, and I quote, oh my god, I'm texting
my boyfriend. He's from Jamaica and he's been looking for
a church that has accepted him, and and oh my god,
(29:40):
I've been texting him. And she was an usher. She
wasn't like attending through her network. She was an usher
for the theater for this, you know. And it was
like I've been texting him and letting him know about
this fantastic man and that there's such a thing that
exists and do you have information you get So that
(30:01):
kind of eagerness and passion touched me in ways that
I will never ever forget. And if if you know,
we do hope the best for the film. We do
hope award winning recognition, We do hope that it just
goes all over the world. But if by any small chance,
(30:24):
nothing else happens, for in my experience, that made it
worth it. I mean I was just I was. I
took that home with me. It's still with me and
I will never ever forget it. So that was one
situation outside of others, and certainly Wellington, I'd love to
(30:49):
hear your experience as well, but it's just in terms
of we've been warmly accepted. We've had large numbers for
the Q and AY, so it has raised an interest
in terms of people wanting to know more. Uh, the
questions around some of the pieces inside of the documentary,
(31:16):
you know, like songs and so on and so on,
what's the next step, how can I get involved? What
are we doing? Uh? This is so important and relative
and so I guess that would uh constitute a very
positive response that we've been receiving.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Actually, thank you for being I hadn't heard that story.
Thank you for for sharing that I had not. And
that's that's that's that's a wonderful that's a I mean,
I can I can just imagine, And that's a wonderful
takeaway to have from the film. As Beatich said, we
have been lucky in that we have gotte to screen
(31:56):
the film at a number of film festivals and and
overall the reception has been amazing, whether it be our
you know, premier screenings at Tribeca are amazing, screening in
d C at DC Docs, we you know, we had
wonderful screenings at frame Line, the LGBTQ Film Festival in
San Francisco. Obviously, the attitude mentioned the UK screening, and
(32:21):
we've got other screenings coming up. I feel like, you know,
you know, when you're making when you're making a film,
and when you're making a film that I feel is
as special as this one, you have a you have
a responsibility to make sure that you are doing right
(32:43):
by the people involved, by the family, by the people
that it depicts, by the time period, by there's a
lot of responsibility and obviously you know, doing right by
the subject, you know, and and I don't mean to
minimize when I say subject, but I mean by you know,
(33:05):
by the hero of our story, Carl Beam. And it
was only until you know, yeah, we you know, we
set the you know, we had the screening link and
we sent it around and we got notes and feedback
and you know, but that's still a very inside process,
right That's still it's still not you know, it's still
(33:25):
not the world. It's still not you know people, you know,
people who might have uh uh uh uh a broader
relationship to the to the subject. And so during our
Tribeca screening, which was our premiere screening, I didn't sit
(33:45):
with the rest of the you know, the crew and
the team. I set sort of away from everyone amongst
just regular attendees, and we had, you know, amazing support
from Unity. A lot of Unity folks came to the screening,
and and I was sitting next to people I didn't know,
and it was only in those moments when I would
(34:07):
get the quiet sort of hmmm hmmm, somebody shaking their head,
somebody recognizing someone that they saw in the film, And
just just for me, that was, uh, a kind of
validation that we must have done something right. You know. Yes,
(34:27):
we had the sort of effusive standing ovation and but
but just to know that we struck, you know, we
were able to sort of elicit some of these sort
of intimate, genuine reactions from audience members made me feel like, okay,
maybe we did okay by this, you know. So so yes,
(34:48):
I mean we you know, we we want to share
the story. We want to we we want to get
it out into the world. But you know, I'm hoping
that we have more of these small moments like what
you know, these moments, I mean, it's a smaller contain moment,
but some of these moments that Beatitude uh mentioned, but
also just where where people feel something, you know, that
(35:09):
they feel something when they learn or see you know
this film about Carlban.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Great great, Thank you so much. And then, as I said,
and as I've shared with you all, the name of
the show is Hello, Black, Heller, Queer, Hello Christian. So
it is just a space that I have created where
folks me and folks like me can come in the
fullness of our blackness, fullness of our queerness, fullness of
our Christianity and our spirituality. You have people who are
(35:40):
black but not queer, black but not Christian, Christian but
not queer, queer but not Christian. But it is really
rooted in a black, queer Christian experience. So I would
like to ask and get you all thoughts, what does Hella, Black, Heller, Queer,
Hello Christian mean to you? And how do you think
(36:01):
it fits within archbishop beings legacy? Not and not not
so much the show, because I know you all may
not have necessarily heard episodes, but just when you hear
that phrase on what does it mean to you? And
how do you think it fits within Archbishop's legacy?
Speaker 4 (36:20):
Thank you? And if I didn't say thank you for
having us on the show, this is the time I'd
like to acknowledge that it means that our lives have
come to there's a there's a consciousness for me when I,
when I, when I, when I see the title, it
(36:41):
speaks to a consciousness in terms of my splintered life
is no longer, you know. And there was a story
of a young guy who used to go to a convention.
And those of us that are church people will know
this story will relate to it. He went to a
convention and and and he stayed with his boyfriend, and
every time people but they were staying in secret, and
(37:05):
every time someone would come to the door, they had
agreed he would go under the bed and hide until
they left. And I remember him saying one time in testimony,
I don't have to hide under the bed anymore. And
oh my god, I don't have to go to a
(37:26):
convention and pretend like I'm somebody over here and I'm
somebody else there. And he was a popular musician, And
I know tons of people who are even out there
like that today up to today, and I would say
to them that hella black, hella queer, is hella Christian
saying no, we don't have to hide under the bed anymore.
(37:49):
We don't have to put ourselves under the bed in
the closet in anywhere we are free to live our
lives the wholeness of who we are, in the dynamic
gifts that we bring to it, in the singularity of oneness,
(38:10):
and enjoy the power of all that means.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Wow, you know, beattitude. You you remind me of something
that I've had to kind of revisit address think about
over the course of making this film, because you know, yeah,
(38:40):
hella black, hella queer, hella christian. Obviously, I mean I
didn't I didn't know Carl Bean personally, but I feel
like he would have embraced, you know, the spirit of
all that that means, you know, and being able to
sort of have all those things, you know, for of
a better phrase, under one umbrella, you know, under one
(39:03):
you know this in this encapsulated in that that that
that that's that phrase. You know. I grew up in
the church up until I was about fifteen, and and
I knew also very early on that I was gay
(39:25):
and obviously I'm black, So that's you know, those two,
you know, the black and the gay thing were two
things that you know that I knew, you know that
that you know that were were me and then the
Christian thing was something that I struggled with because I
(39:46):
didn't know that all those three things could coexist, you know.
And so you know, at a certain point, I uh,
I don't know if it was just a decision I
made or but I let go of my sense of
(40:08):
what it meant, my sense of what it meant to
be a Christian because it didn't seem to be compatible
with what the Church thought, the Church that I knew,
I thought my Christianity could be given the fact that
(40:28):
I'm also gay. So I still have a vexed relationship
to this idea of being Christian. I still do. I'm sorry,
I just do you know.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
No apologies, no, no apologies needed, And I think that's
something important to see.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Yeah, and so so working on this film, I'm just like, man, like,
did I have you know, did I you know, you know,
did I have did I have to? You know? Again, like,
was it a choice? Did it just happened? Wasn't an evolution?
You know? I don't know, because there's certainly there's you know,
you know, some of the Christians I know need to
you know, could be a little more Christian, you know,
(41:10):
And I'd like to believe that in certain ways that
I live my life, I actually might be more Christian
than those who proclaim to be Christian. So anyway, that's
a long way around saying that, you know, I'm trying
to get back to at least you know, one of
(41:31):
the good things that's come out out of this process
of being involved in this film is, you know, can
I find my hell a Christian again? Like you know,
is there is there?
Speaker 4 (41:42):
You know?
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Can I can I get Can I at least find
something about it that that makes sense for me, you know,
you know, in the in the context of who I
am now. So yeah, anyway, I think.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
That ship would Archbishop's job and work was centered around
the knowledge of knowing the destructiveness, the destructive element, the
trauma of air quotes Christianity. In fact, I know it
was because we talked at length many nights into the
(42:21):
morning about that. That being both of our experience and
we were clearly aware that we would have to move
through these muddy waters of Christianity and identifying some of
these religious beliefs that were put upon people that created
(42:47):
the trauma of their entire life, their existence, and would
be inviting Archbishop invited us to surrender those beliefs and
to surrender the hypocrisy and still be okay with God,
you know. And so Wellington, I think your testament today
(43:10):
around the struggle and the I'm calling this struggle you
didn't use that term, but just the decisions around Okay,
I've got these other elements in my life. Now, what
are we going to do with this Christianity thing? Because
when we get to the core of Christianity, there's a
lot to burrow through and layers and layers. But I
(43:32):
have to bring it back to Archbishop and our intent
and continues to be to really be able to courageously
identify some of those areas where it doesn't feel Christian.
When I can be anything else, I can be Paul's
murderer and be okay, not only a murderer, but a
(43:55):
serious killer, like kill thousands of people and God forgive me.
But to be gay, it's even worse than that. And
that's the challenge that Archbishop embraced and taught us how
to embrace it.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Hey Man and and Wellington, we definitely pray that you
can find your Hello Christian again as well. And it
may not even look like being Christian, but you know,
I just pray that you're able to plug back into
(44:34):
that godlight that lives in you, because as much as
you miss it, it misses you too.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
So I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
I really you're welcome. And then Wellington, you also said something.
It was a little tongue in cheap, but it was
it was incredibly important about how a lot of Christians
could learn how to be more christ Like. And that
even made me think about on what theattitude Jones said
around the beattitudes, and how a lot of Christians do
(45:04):
not know about them, and how and so much of
our teaching and preaching within the Christian Church, so much
of it is not on the beatitudes, right, And these
are supposed to be the things that directly came from
the mouth of the one that we call Messiah and Savior, right,
And it kind of makes me think about something that
I heard from Reverend doctor Valerie Bridgeman for at least
(45:30):
for this for this era of Christianity, that most of
us know, most of us follow Paul more than we
follow Jesus, and you and most of us are Paul
(45:51):
Lenians more than we are Christians. But that's another conversation
for another time.
Speaker 4 (46:01):
What an important one.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
Thanks for sticking with Hella Black, Hella Queer, Hello Christian.
But next question I do want to ask, and I
think we started and if you had anything else you
(46:24):
wanted to add, please feel free to do so. Both Beatitude,
Jones and Wellington, what are your thoughts on the still
ongoing struggle that lgbt Q Christians overall experience, but specifically
Black LGBTQ Christians experience around acceptance and justice both within
(46:46):
and outside of the church, and these decades after Unity
Fellowship was founded, what do you think Archibishop Being would
have to say to us at this juncture as far
as issues of LGBTQ equity and justice within the church
(47:06):
and within the Black Church.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
I want to try to speak to this a little
bit more from a broader context, a little bit because
because I think my answer today is is different than
it would have been, you know, eight months ago, you know,
ten months ago, because obviously, you know, I thought, I think,
(47:32):
you know, we had made sort of enormous strides, you know,
both in terms of well just you know, you know,
people of color, LGBTQ people, LGBTQ people of color, just
in terms of you know, the fight wasn't over the
work wasn't done. But but you know, but everything from
(47:54):
marriage equality to to our first black president would have
suggested that we had made enormous strides. But we can
see how easily and how quickly these things can change,
(48:14):
you know, with with with you know, with just the
change in the precedent, you know, uh uh, with names
being taken off buildings, records being archived, museums being challenged
in terms of you know, their their their uh uh uh,
you know their idea, you know their their collections. I
(48:35):
mean I could list of of you know, a hundred
things right here that that everybody knows about. So you know,
I'm scared, you know, I get you know, I'm scared.
I'm worried about all the things that can be undone
(48:57):
are being undone. You know what to do? You know
how to respond to the to the rapid fire, daily
assault you know, on our spirit, on the law, on
people's families. You know. Uh so, so I don't know it.
(49:24):
And you make a film like this and you think, okay, well,
all right, they take this piece away, or they challenge this,
or they dismantled that. You know, we can put this
one little piece back to try to build you know
to to to build, you know, to put another a
(49:45):
break back in the building that they have taken a bulldoze,
you know, a wrecking ball to. So you know, the
fight goes on. We have to keep going. You know,
I don't know. I don't have the answers. You know,
you know, the struggle is real.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
Thank you, Thank you for that though powerful powerful Wellington.
Speaker 4 (50:12):
And I don't know if you heard it, Joseph, but
I heard a conversion and in his opening statement there
on that set, I heard a complete conversion eight years ago.
But now I'm here. That's an evolution for me. So
I think that that's that was really powerful and that
is wonderful. I think that's what the film is supposed
(50:33):
to do. I think that is exactly well, maybe not
supposed to, but that's one of the things that it does.
I want to acknowledge, and I guess my response is
hearing the question as thoughts on on the ongoing struggle
for acceptance and justice. So I want to acknowledge the
trauma and pain that you know, people are experiencing still today,
(51:00):
and I want to I want to offer whatever compassion
this tool is able to convey around what that feels
like and and and and of course that process is individualize.
Everybody can be at different places and all of that
be a part of the struggle and a part of
(51:26):
liberty and justice for all. And so I want to
acknowledge that, but I was the one to not necessarily
leave it there, but to talk about you know again,
the film Uh, you Know addresses a current issue of
exclusion in black churches. And we're seeing a time where
(51:51):
Black churches are struggling to survive because new generations are
not accepting the hypocrisy and and and and and that
is statistics that are verifiable. Those are facts. They're not
accepting their parents' religion as it as it has been
(52:13):
passed on, so that it includes the exclusion of lgbt
q i A people. You don't have to go far
on the internet to hear black preachers just speak vehemently
about and look at them make mockery. And I feel
like sometimes it's coming directly at me in terms of
just almost the description UH, and the condescending words and
(52:37):
the unloving thoughts. So we want to just recognize that
this film is still relative and it still speaks very
strongly to the message of liberation that there may be
a listener out there that if it comes your way,
it would be great for you to go and to
(52:58):
experience it. And then lastly, I just wanted to, you know,
talk about this sort of new new era that we're
in even inside of the black struggle. Like before, we
had the Civil rights Black Power movement, right and we
(53:19):
had it did some very powerful things to address some
of those issues that have been itemized by Wellington eloquently,
and and and and yet we did a lot of
incredible work during that time. And and someone says, well,
we've been here before, and I would argue, we've not
(53:43):
been here before because before we didn't have as many
unapologetic both courageous knowing that we know that, we know
that we know God loves us as we are in
the in the struggle. We're now in the struggle, and
we're not going anywhere, and we're not we're not being
(54:05):
you know, intimidated by scripture, your scriptures, your religiosity, we're
not being intimidated by any of that craziness. And we're
in the fight this time. And I would say, as
they say in the Bible, woe to the oppressor. I
don't care who that is I don't care what color
the oppressor is. And we know that God is not
(54:28):
answering both the oppressor's prayer and the oppressed, and so
we are fully armed and we are fully convinced God
is on our side on this time around. And so
we stand strong, We stand bold, We stand unapologetically, ready
and armed to switch the tides yet again, to show
(54:52):
up yet again strong, and to be like the Trojan
horse effect where when we do complete this round, they'll
be scratching their hands once again. How did they do it?
How was it possible? Well, it's possible because we do standbold,
we do stand as a community, we do have Hella
(55:13):
black Hell he a Christian, and we are sending our
message strong and loud that we are here and we
are not going anywhere, and we are prepared for the fight.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (55:28):
Amen. And then the next to last question the attitude Jones,
that would really like for you to come in as clergy,
because I really am going to pivot this to clergy.
I saw so much of myself in this documentary, and
I saw so much of myself and archbishop being.
Speaker 4 (55:52):
But one of the things the ending.
Speaker 1 (55:58):
Of the documentary struck me and really stood out to me.
And really the last chapter in Chapters of Archbishops Means
Life really arrested my heart strengths because basically, as we
(56:19):
see in the documentary, Archbishop Being from a young child,
was someone who had to carry a lot, and they
did what so many of us within the Black community
and within the Black LGBTQ community and within the Black
(56:41):
church community, due to our detriment. We lean on our
spirituality and we forge. We lean on our spirituality and
we forge. We lean in our spirituality, and we pushed forward,
and we pushed forward, and in that pushing forward, so
many times were also pushing down.
Speaker 3 (57:07):
And with.
Speaker 1 (57:09):
Archbishop Being, who was not just clergy, was not just
a bishop, who was not just a minister, but as
folks will see through the documentary, was also a seer
and a mystic and someone who was blessed and burdened
with a relationship where God came to them in arresting dreams,
(57:36):
and someone who did all of this amazing work while
pushing down, pushing down, until the point where in a
just a very sad way, his body shut down and
his body said no more. And unfortunately he did have
(57:58):
to spend a chunk of his latter years really confined
and homebound. And I bring all that up to say,
is to say and to ask you Beattitude Jones. What
would you share with clergy, particularly those who are justice
(58:19):
seeking clergy, who are doing the work both within and
outside of the walls. What would you share as far
as the importance of self care and not just spirituality,
but also making sure that you're getting counseling and that
you are in relationship with a mental health profession.
Speaker 4 (58:42):
Wow wow wow wow. Well, okay, so I tried to
practice all those things that you just mentioned self care.
I tried to make sure that I'm eating correctly, that
I exercise, that I do all of the things that
I need to do because and maybe it's because I
(59:05):
walked so closely with a leader who felt that sacrificing
himself was a part of the call and had a
vision beyond this world. And I walked with Archbishop to
(59:29):
the last day of his life, and I tried many
times to get him to do something other than his
choice of treatment. He was very clear that this was
his to do. Archbishop would spend hours in the car
(59:54):
driving across the country building churches and had a very
traditional preacher kind of mentality that God is gonna think
that God is gonna think of God's gonna make everything okay.
And you know I came up behind. Oh no, we're
(01:00:15):
gonna be different preachers. We know Monday, my office is closed.
Folks has got to understand you got to have boundaries
blah blah blah blah blah. So I was gonna be that,
you know, and and yet I get it because our
work never finishes. We have to have the discipline to quit.
You never finished the world and that, you know, to
(01:00:37):
clergy who are in this struggle. You know what amazes
me is that our network of support is so divided
and it's so hard to befriend each other within the
community of freedom fighters. You know, we're good at meetings,
(01:01:02):
we're good when we come to the you know this talk,
this panel that, But then when we finish lifting the
consciousness of the world, we go home alone, and we
go home to an isolated world because oftentimes we fall
into this image of being perfect. We don't drink, we
(01:01:28):
don't smoke, we don't mess with folks who do blah
blah blah blah blah, and we're in our lives are
this and that, and yet when we discover and we
have on the other side of that that we watch
porn too. We some of us smoke, not saying that
(01:01:50):
I do. That's nobody's business, but it exists. We drink,
We have the same struggles that everybody else does. And
this isolation is killing us. And We've got to build
trust among each other. I'm not saying we have to
hang out, hang all of our dirty airs out, that's
(01:02:11):
no one's business. But we've got to build trust in
that leadership rank that allows us to be human, that
allows us to just be Zachary, no air, no title,
no none of that, but just be us and find
(01:02:33):
ways and healthy ways of escapism, find healthy ways to
hang out with friends, and make sure that that is
equally as sacred. I'm here, I am working on Monday,
my seventh today, So I'm breaking a cardinal rule here
(01:02:54):
because I felt it was important. But you know that
that day that's set aside for family, be that that
set aside for you and your lover or your partner,
be that, and and and and one last thing, you know,
the least goes on vulnerability is human dare to be vulnerable.
(01:03:19):
I don't you know, I'll take a risk to let
people know no, no, no, I am not on the
pedals to because I've you know, none of that. I've
been in ministry doing this work for forty three years,
and and and and and none of that got me
any more money, any more dollars anymore of this because
even after doing a lot of the so called ministerial perfectness,
(01:03:42):
they still did you just like Jesus, They'll still stab
your hand, you and and and be cutthroat when they
want to be. So you have to recognize the source
and recognize that that a lot of that is my
ego at work and not me doing the work that
I'm supposed to be doing, because what good am I? Dead?
(01:04:03):
What good am I not here? What good am I?
You know? And and and and the stress level has
a lot to do with our diet, with our our
sleeping habits, our stress level of people dying and and
and and having to do funerals and whatnot. You've got
(01:04:25):
to be able to create those boundaries that are healthy.
You've got to be able to just be you with
a group of friends that allow you to be you.
Don't let you know your personal friends call you a
reverend or don't just don't stop them, just no, no
stop that, you know, don't let them. Don't be around
people who are just going to talk shop all the time. No,
(01:04:46):
I'm not here to talk shop. I want to talk
about Superman and how sorry I thought Superman was. I
want to talk you know, I want to talk about
naked Gun and and and how this naked gun was
not as funny as the other ones. That's all I
want talk about. I want to talk about shop. I
want to talk about healings. I want to talk about
any of that, because this is a time that I
(01:05:07):
get a chance to.
Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
Jesse, thank you for that beatitude, Jones and Wellington. I
know we're asking a little bit pastime for you, so
before we let you go so that you can take
care of your other duties, first and foremost, thank you
for joining us today and thank you for what you offered.
And then as far as the final question for you
(01:05:29):
know this portion of the show, just let us know
how can we support Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:05:34):
So I just want to say, first of all, Joseph,
thank you so much for today, for what you do,
for who you are, and also for that that brilliant opening.
I didn't even get to I wanted to applaud how
you came in with song, you came in with your
occapella all right, oh my god, your acapella version of
(01:05:55):
I was born this way. I'm sorry. I just have
to I have to give you your props for that.
So that was beautiful. That was beautiful. We might have
to call on you for a special event. Oh when
we get this film release, I'm gonna remember that. I
gotta file that away. But so anyway, but I just
(01:06:15):
want to say thank you for this opportunity too, to
talk about Carl, this film, my own experience with this film,
to be a part of your show, to get to
know you a little bit. And yeah, it's it's it's
it's it's it's been it's it's been a real it's
been a real, a real, genuine pleasure. And and and
(01:06:41):
I'm gonna call I'll let you know how you can help,
because that song you were singing, that might be the
way that you can help. But I'll keep you posted
on it, and we'll definitely let you know about the
larger release of the film. We've got some upcoming festival
screenings and we're still actively looking for distribution. But Hopefully
they'll come a time when when and we will be
able to tell you, uh more definitively how your audiences
(01:07:06):
can see the film, you know, on a on a
mass scale. But again, thank you for for.
Speaker 4 (01:07:14):
Are we are we in Maryland?
Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
Suit I was, I was just getting ready to say
I believe Daniel told me y'all get ready to be
a board.
Speaker 3 (01:07:21):
We are. I don't know that we have an exact
I think we're waiting on the exact date, but yes,
we are going to be in and and uh in
Maryland Film Festival. We're just waiting on the on the date.
As soon as we know, we'll we'll get that, we'll
get that over to you.
Speaker 1 (01:07:37):
Great, okay, and then because sooner that would kind of
be like a hometown show for Archbishop be absolutely, I
might I might have to hop on the Mark trains.
And then as far as the singing, that's just that
Black Church training for you. You have to ever be
ready and you have to be it. You have to
(01:07:59):
be on and in pitch. And so with that being said,
just want to thank everybody for another episode of Hella Black,
Hello Queer, Hello Christian. I will definitely always make sure
you pay attention to the show notes because you never
(01:08:19):
know what goodies you'll find there. And also just make
sure that you like that, you comment, that you share,
and you subscribe. So until the next time, be kind
to yourself, take care of yourself, and take care of
each other. Hella Black, Hello Queer, Hello Christian is a
production of iHeartMedia on the Outspoken Slate, which seeks to
(01:08:42):
amplify LGBTQ voices in podcasting. I am your host and
executive creative producer Joseph Frees, along with Gabrielle Collins, who
also serves as executive producer. Dylan You Are is a producer.
Triple is our lead producer and
Hella Black, Hella Queer, Hello Christian is a production of
iHeart podcast on the Outspoken Network, which seeks to amplify
LGBTQ voices in podcasting. Hello all, and welcome to another
episode of Hella Black, Hello Queer, Hello Christian. Before we
(00:23):
get into this week's episode, I just had a quick
announcement that I did want to share with you because
not too long after this episode was recorded, one of
our guests, Right be Attitude, Zachary G. Jones, they unfortunately
launched their mother, Mother Maggie Jones, and I just wanted
(00:46):
to do a quick PSA to honor that and to
send our condolences and prayers to be Attitude Jones. And
I'm just gonna read a little bit of what has
been released from the leadership of the Unity Fellowship Church movement.
So the Unity Fellowship Church Movement shares in the celebration
(01:06):
of life and honors are Community Mother Maggie Jones born
nineteen twenty nine Transition twenty twenty five, mother of r
Presiding Prelate the Right Beatitude, Zachary G. Jones. She was
welcomed into the Eternal College of Monarchs on Tuesday, August
the twenty seventh, at five forty eight am. Mother Jones
(01:29):
was born in rural Mississippi during the US Great Depression.
She grew up in the Jim Jane Crow era and
was a strong supporter of equality during the Civil Rights Movement.
Mother Jones had a career as a LVN and worked
as a phlebotomy specialist at Los Angeles County General Hospital
for over forty years. Mother Jones's love for her family
(01:54):
and community was felt in every life she touched. A
mother of six children, grandmother, and great grandmother. She served
her community through her home church, Morning Star Missionary Baptist
Church in Los Angeles, USCM claimed Mother Jones is their
own mother for years as she shared wisdom and words
of faith with all of us. So once again, do
(02:17):
want to send prayers to the Unity Fellowship Church family nationwide?
Do you want to send prayers to write Beatitude Jones?
And as we always do, we are going to take
a brief moment of silence just to honor Mother Jones.
So she passed away at ninety six, So we are
going to take a minute and thirty six seconds just
(02:39):
to do a moment of silence for her. Starting now,
(04:21):
Mother Jones. Thank you so much for your life. Mother Jones,
thank you for what you gave us through your son,
The right Beatitude. Zachary G. Jones, Congratulations, you have been elevated.
You have moved on up a little bit higher. You
have packed up your tent and moved on from labor
to reward, and you now rest as ancestor. Enjoy your
(04:45):
new office and your new mansion. Show me how good
is gonna get today? God, dear universe, you have permission
to amaze me today. I am a beautiful and blue
bless being who deserves great things always. I love my
life and I am thankful for my life. I am
(05:08):
safe and I have everything I need. Something amazing is
going to happen for me today. Show me how could
it's going to get today? God, dear universe, you have
permission to amaze me today. I am a beautiful and
blessed being who deserves great things always. I love my
(05:28):
life and I am thankful for my life. I am
safe and I have everything I need. Something amazing is
happening for me today. Show me how could it's going
to get today? God, dear Universe, you have permission to
amaze me today. I am a beautiful and blessed being
(05:48):
who deserves great things always. I love my life and
I am thankful for my life. I am safe and
I have everything I need. Something amid amazing is happening
for me today. Show me how good is going to
get today. God, dear universe, you have permission to amaze
me today. I am a beautiful and blessed being who
(06:12):
deserves great things always. I love my life and I
am thankful for my life. I am safe and I
have everything I need. Something amazing is happening for me today,
(06:39):
walking through life and Nature's disguise.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah, you laugh at me and you criticized. Yeah, because
I'm happy, carefree and gay.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yes I'm gay. Ain't no fault. It's a fact I
was born this way. Now, I won't judge you. Don't
you judge me. We're all away, nature managed to be.
I'm happy. I'm carefrey and nongay. I was born this way.
(07:47):
I'm happy I'm carefrey and nongay. I was born this way.
I'm happy, I'm carefrey and gay. I was born this away.
I'm happy caffrey and I'm gay. Hello, family and friends,
(08:13):
it is Joseph Rees once again and We are here
for another episode of Hella Black, Hello Queer, Hello Christian,
a fully black, fully queer, fully human, fully divine podcast
around society, culture, and other conversations that I am looking
to have with my amazing friends. And the song that
(08:37):
I let in with this week was a song called
I Was Born This Way by Carl Bean, who would
become the Archbishop called Bean of the Unity Fellowship Church.
It was a disco record that was released in the
mid seventies under Motown Records, and it was one of
(09:00):
the first, if not the first, explicitly gay pride anthems
put to wax because so many of our gay pride
anthems up until that point, and even after that point
we're very coded. But this explicitly said it. And I
remember finding out about this song, or really finding out
(09:26):
about Archbishop Bean, through James or Hardy's the second installment
in James or Hardy's Be Boy Blues series second time around,
because there is a scene where one of the couple's
Beady and Babyface, they get married, and they get married
at this church in Brooklyn called Unity Fellowship of Christ Church,
(09:53):
which was which was and is a historically black, lesbian,
gay bisexual and transgender, their congregation and denomination. And at
this time I'm reading this in two thousand and two,
so I am seventeen years old. I am a young
homosexual who is just happy to be somewhere, and I
(10:16):
am just taking in all the knowledge I can about myself,
as I have finally begun to name that which was
whispered and named about me by others for so long.
So first read B Boy Blues by James or Hardy,
and then of course read second time around when I
found out there was a whole series, and at first
(10:37):
I thought, no, this has to be something that James
are Hardy made up. This isn't something that can actually exist.
But I just thought I'll goog ill. Well, no it
wasn't Google, because I only think Google was out at
that time, but whatever the search engine was, I got
(10:59):
on the family computer and I just searched it, and
lo and behold, I found out that the Unity Fellowship
of Christ Church was an actual, real deal thing, and
it was a denomination where God is love and love
is for everyone, and they did indeed have a congregation
(11:23):
in Brooklyn. So July fast forward to July fourth weekend,
two thousand and three. The summer before my senior year
of high school. I was in upstate New York at
the time, but went down to the city because there
was this hip hop concert that I wanted to go to,
(11:43):
the rock to mic tour. It was fifty cent jay
Z Busta rhymes Missy Elliott and Fabulous, and I said,
since I was already going to be in Long Island,
the concert was that Monday. That Sunday, after I visited
my home church, I was going to hop on the
Long Island railroad and make my way out to Brooklyn
(12:05):
so I could visit this church. And I did so,
and I walked past the church about three or four
times until I realized, no, this is the actual church.
It's almost like it was a garage that y'all made
into a church. But I saw the banner and I
(12:25):
went in and I got to experience that first service,
and then for a couple of years, I just made
sure that Unity Fellowship was where I went for Easter
Sunday service, and then from there I would come back
into my faith as an openly gay Christian. From there,
you know, I would join Concord in Brooklyn from there,
(12:47):
and then when I came to DC, would be part
of Ranking Chapel at Howard University for a number of
years as a chapel assistant, and then you know, now
I've been a member of Alfred Street Baptist Church for
the past twelve years. But for me, the journey of
choosing Christ for myself as an adult and it not
just being the thing that my mother made me a
(13:10):
tend church really started at Unity Fellowship Church on Atlantic Avenue.
It was Unity Fellowship was the first place I shouted
as someone who was raised Presbyterian. So really, in so
many ways, there would be no hell of Black, Hello Queer,
Hello Christian if it were not for Archbishop Called Bean
(13:31):
and the Unity Fellowship of Christ's movement. And there is
this wonderful documentary that I had the privilege of seeing
earlier this summer, which documents the life of Archbishop Bean
and documents the life and the Unity Fellowship movement. And
(13:53):
I was just convicted, and I just knew that in
this inaugural season of this podcast, there was some people
that I needed to tell thank you, and Archbishop Carl
Bean and the Unity Fellowship Church was on that list
of folks that I needed to tell thank you by
(14:14):
giving them an episode. And I have two very special
guests that are connected to the documentary and are connected
and are connected to your Unity Fellowship. I have Wellington
Love and I have Beattitude Zachary Jones online, and I'm
going to ask for them to come in and introduce themselves,
(14:36):
share their pronouns and anything else that they would like
to share as for as an introduction, well Aton, we
will start with you, and then be Attitude Jones we
can conclude with you.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Thank you so much, Joseph for that beautiful introduction about
carl Bean Unity Fellowship and for having us here today.
I'm Willington Love and I am the the lead producer
on the new documentary I Was Born this Way, which
basically walks you through the incredible life, journey and legacy
(15:11):
of Archbishop Carlbeing and all the amazing contributions he's made
to our culture, our society, to the LGBTQ community. Thank
you for having me.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
You're more than welcome. Thank you for being here.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Good afternoon. It is just such a joy. Joseph. Your
story is incredible. Thank you for sharing it and just
being so clear about your journey. Your journey has I
think a slice of all of us in it somewhere,
and so it really is amazing how many of us
(15:51):
get a chance to talk about our historical journey around
come into ourselves and identifying who we finally became in
our evolution. I am the Attitude Zachary G. Jones. Beatitude
is a title that I took on because when the
Archbiship passed away, the organization agreed that the title of
(16:15):
the founder would also go away with him. A lot
of people like be Attitude.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
What is that?
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Well, it happens to be part of Jesus' first sermon.
They are the Beatitudes. And it's amazing how many Sunday
School folks from the old Church you know nothing about
them called it the Beattitude, or referred to as the Beatitudes.
And it is an Eastern Orthodox title for a senior
clergy person, and because it was really fresh to the West,
(16:46):
I really enjoyed it. And the Beatitudes were my favorite
passages of scripture when I was a kid, so it
just felt like it fit. Gave me a challenge to
live up to the image of the Beatitudes, and that's
why my title is what it is. I was there
at the Archbishop's right hand. We were friends and I
(17:09):
missed my friends so terribly, so I just I miss him.
I miss him. I miss him. But we were good friends.
We had no idea where the work would go. When
it started. He found I'd like to say we found
each other because I had already graduated from seminary and
from college. I had just exited a filmed marriage with
(17:33):
a female. Oh, by the way, my pronouns are he, him, her?
And after that film marriage, I was seeking a place.
I was seeking somewhere. I decided church was not going
to be my life anymore. I had grown up in
(17:53):
it and the hypocrisy and and just the lies. It
was it was time for that to cease in my life.
And I met a young man and we had a
wonderful relationship. He died of ates and I was devastating.
We were still in the very much the early stages.
I was devastating because we were going to be the
(18:14):
happy ever after couple. And finally I felt like I
had found what God had given me. And so when
he died, I sought after a small church of maybe
about six people on Washington Boulevard in Los Angeles at
the Ebony Showcase and yeah, they were, and revn Bean
(18:38):
at the time I was preaching like he had a
room full of people. And I certainly kept growing up
in the church scene in Los Angeles, knew pretty much
how little churches flow. And it made my decision that
I'm not going to be the usher require remember that
da dah da da, I'm not because they will work
you to death. And I was like done. So I
(18:59):
went because of free recommended and he was actually a
possible date and I felt like, Okay, if I do this,
I have a better chance of maybe getting together with him.
But I was so mesmerized when I went. Carl's message
(19:19):
was everything that I had believed in argued about in seminary,
so on and so forth. And finally the history is here.
We duplicated that work in New York and the rest
is history. So that's kind of who I am and
how I came to be. And it was the best
(19:40):
decision that I made in my life.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Amen, thank you, thank you so much for sharing. I'm
already learning some things, some additional things that I didn't
already know. And then be Attitude Jones, you kind of
already took the first two questions, and I thank you
for that, No, thank you for that. I'm actually loving
(20:03):
the way that spirit is moving.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
We're going to pause for.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
A second, but don't go too far more of this conversation.
When we come back, you're listening to Hella Black, Hella Queer,
(20:43):
Hella Christian. So Wellington, you can kind of take these
first two questions to kind of elaborate and just share
your experience. So those first two questions for you, Wellington
are going to be when did you first hear of
archbishop called being in Unity Fellowship? And then what in inspired?
What was the zeitgeis for a documentary around Archbishop Bean's life.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
To be produced?
Speaker 3 (21:11):
First, the film itself was actually started about six years ago,
and it was one of the co directors, Daniel YOUNGI
who actually found the story found out about Archbishop Carlbean
while researching for another film project, and he worked on
(21:32):
it on his own with co directors Sam Pollard for
I don't know a year and a half nearly two years,
and the idea at that time was that it meant
it was meant to be a short film, a forty
five minute short film about Archbishop Carl Bean. I came
onto the project a little over four years ago, when
(21:57):
they were still in a sort of active fundraising mode
to try to get a little bit of money pulled
together to do a more polished edit so that they
could then fundraise off them. The the real that was
sent to me at the time was was what was
essentially like this hour long what we call a hero
(22:20):
interview of Archbishop Carl being just sitting just talking, telling
us about his life, telling us about his story from
you know, from his earliest days of being adopted by
his godparents, you know, through you know, through you know
all the loss and tragedy of losing his mother, and
(22:42):
you know, coming out and you know, you know, finding
his his his voice both musically and spiritually, you know,
through his journey as a you know, young gay man
coming into music, and then obviously his faith based work
is working aids. And so I sat watching this this
assembly and I was utterly mesmerized, because I'm embarrassed to
(23:07):
say that before then I didn't really know much about
Archbishop Carlbean. I knew the song a little bit, I think,
and I'm certainly of the age where I should have
known who he was, given that I was. I came
of age in New York City on the late early sorry,
the late eighties, early nineties, at the height of the
(23:27):
AIDS crisis, being very involved in act up, you know,
being very involved in making sort of counterculture you know,
LGBTQ media. But I am I am sad to say,
I didn't really know much about him, and come to
discover most of my you know, equally educated you know,
(23:49):
friends didn't know much about him. So first the early
Assembly was an introduction to a to a man, to
a world, to you know, a legacy that I that
I sadly didn't know much about. And before I could
finish watching the Assembly, I was dialing my friends asking
(24:11):
how can I help, you know, how can I be
a part of this? What can I do to help
move this project forward? And so bit by bit I
became much more involved in the film, not only on
the fundraising side, but the actual producing side of you know,
helping shape the story, figuring out you know, next steps.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
And at a certain point early on in my involvement
with the film, we realized there was absolutely no way
we could do justice to the Archbishop's story in a
short film. It had to be a feature, you know,
we had to We had to dig deeper in terms
of resources, finding money, you know, getting other voices involved,
(24:56):
getting other people involved, because we all, we had one
opportunity to get it right. We had one opportunity to
do justice to uh this man, and so that took
more time. And you know, we certainly had our ups
and downs over the over the course of the project.
(25:17):
You know, there was a time or two when we
thought we weren't going to ever you know, make it.
But you know, I have to say I feel like,
you know, Carl was with us, you know, through through
the journey that it took to get this story out
into the world. And so I it has been I
(25:38):
have learned so much, not only about Carl and what
he's done, but just about you know, I think about
I think about the climate and the culture, uh and
what's changed in the last four years. I mean, and
where we were four years ago. We had no idea,
(26:03):
certainly Daniel did when he started six years ago, and
certainly when I came on board two years later, which
was four years ago, that we would be in this
place where we are now, needing more than ever the
message of what Carl stood for. You know, you know,
(26:26):
God has love, love us for everyone. We need to
hear that more more than ever, you know, we need
to we need to we need to understand more about
what it means to be compassionate, what it means to
to to look after other people, what it means to
to UH, to preserve history, to teach history, to pass
(26:48):
things on, because we are seeing every day the the
the concerted efforts that the steps that are being made
to dismantle to a raise, to eradicate all the things
that Carl stood for. So so I I feel lucky.
I feel blessed that I got to be a part
(27:13):
of the story, to be a part of the big team,
you know, the team that came together, UH to make
this film, to make this happen, and and and and
also getting to know the attitude, getting to know more
about unity. You know, we have Carl's great niece, Corey Robinson,
who is an EP on the film. She's become a
(27:34):
dear friend. So anyway it has been it's it's it's
it's it's not only a film, but it's something that
has gone on to, you know, to continue to give.
You know, it continues to give and and and we
are hopefully just at the beginning of getting this film
out into the world so that more people, you know,
(27:56):
can learn about what this man did.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Hey man, thank you so much. And then on Beatitude Jones,
I want to bring you back in for this question.
And then Wellington you can share as well. What has
been the reception for the documentary so far.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Well, I'll go to the one that was most memorable,
because we've been in many cities around the globe, and
the most memorable is we were in London and Daniel John,
(28:32):
one of the directors of the film, came to me
at the end of the film and said, at the
end of the premiere actually and was almost apologizing because
we hadn't gotten the kind of the numbers of people
watching as we had in other places. And I had
(28:56):
to not correct him but share with him and experience
that I had with a one oh one conversation from
a young lady who I would say she might have
been twenty twenty one, and she came to me after
the panel. She was in tears. Of course, that grabbed
(29:16):
my attention immediately, like why is this woman crying? She
was in tears, and then she was talking to me
through her tears and she was saying to me, oh
my god, and I quote, oh my god, I'm texting
my boyfriend. He's from Jamaica and he's been looking for
a church that has accepted him, and and oh my god,
(29:40):
I've been texting him. And she was an usher. She
wasn't like attending through her network. She was an usher
for the theater for this, you know. And it was
like I've been texting him and letting him know about
this fantastic man and that there's such a thing that
exists and do you have information you get So that
(30:01):
kind of eagerness and passion touched me in ways that
I will never ever forget. And if if you know,
we do hope the best for the film. We do
hope award winning recognition, We do hope that it just
goes all over the world. But if by any small chance,
(30:24):
nothing else happens, for in my experience, that made it
worth it. I mean I was just I was. I
took that home with me. It's still with me and
I will never ever forget it. So that was one
situation outside of others, and certainly Wellington, I'd love to
(30:49):
hear your experience as well, but it's just in terms
of we've been warmly accepted. We've had large numbers for
the Q and AY, so it has raised an interest
in terms of people wanting to know more. Uh, the
questions around some of the pieces inside of the documentary,
(31:16):
you know, like songs and so on and so on,
what's the next step, how can I get involved? What
are we doing? Uh? This is so important and relative
and so I guess that would uh constitute a very
positive response that we've been receiving.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Actually, thank you for being I hadn't heard that story.
Thank you for for sharing that I had not. And
that's that's that's that's a wonderful that's a I mean,
I can I can just imagine, And that's a wonderful
takeaway to have from the film. As Beatich said, we
have been lucky in that we have gotte to screen
(31:56):
the film at a number of film festivals and and
overall the reception has been amazing, whether it be our
you know, premier screenings at Tribeca are amazing, screening in
d C at DC Docs, we you know, we had
wonderful screenings at frame Line, the LGBTQ Film Festival in
San Francisco. Obviously, the attitude mentioned the UK screening, and
(32:21):
we've got other screenings coming up. I feel like, you know,
you know, when you're making when you're making a film,
and when you're making a film that I feel is
as special as this one, you have a you have
a responsibility to make sure that you are doing right
(32:43):
by the people involved, by the family, by the people
that it depicts, by the time period, by there's a
lot of responsibility and obviously you know, doing right by
the subject, you know, and and I don't mean to
minimize when I say subject, but I mean by you know,
(33:05):
by the hero of our story, Carl Beam. And it
was only until you know, yeah, we you know, we
set the you know, we had the screening link and
we sent it around and we got notes and feedback
and you know, but that's still a very inside process,
right That's still it's still not you know, it's still
(33:25):
not the world. It's still not you know people, you know,
people who might have uh uh uh uh a broader
relationship to the to the subject. And so during our
Tribeca screening, which was our premiere screening, I didn't sit
(33:45):
with the rest of the you know, the crew and
the team. I set sort of away from everyone amongst
just regular attendees, and we had, you know, amazing support
from Unity. A lot of Unity folks came to the screening,
and and I was sitting next to people I didn't know,
and it was only in those moments when I would
(34:07):
get the quiet sort of hmmm hmmm, somebody shaking their head,
somebody recognizing someone that they saw in the film, And
just just for me, that was, uh, a kind of
validation that we must have done something right. You know. Yes,
(34:27):
we had the sort of effusive standing ovation and but
but just to know that we struck, you know, we
were able to sort of elicit some of these sort
of intimate, genuine reactions from audience members made me feel like, okay,
maybe we did okay by this, you know. So so yes,
(34:48):
I mean we you know, we we want to share
the story. We want to we we want to get
it out into the world. But you know, I'm hoping
that we have more of these small moments like what
you know, these moments, I mean, it's a smaller contain moment,
but some of these moments that Beatitude uh mentioned, but
also just where where people feel something, you know, that
(35:09):
they feel something when they learn or see you know
this film about Carlban.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Great great, Thank you so much. And then, as I said,
and as I've shared with you all, the name of
the show is Hello, Black, Heller, Queer, Hello Christian. So
it is just a space that I have created where
folks me and folks like me can come in the
fullness of our blackness, fullness of our queerness, fullness of
our Christianity and our spirituality. You have people who are
(35:40):
black but not queer, black but not Christian, Christian but
not queer, queer but not Christian. But it is really
rooted in a black, queer Christian experience. So I would
like to ask and get you all thoughts, what does Hella, Black, Heller, Queer,
Hello Christian mean to you? And how do you think
(36:01):
it fits within archbishop beings legacy? Not and not not
so much the show, because I know you all may
not have necessarily heard episodes, but just when you hear
that phrase on what does it mean to you? And
how do you think it fits within Archbishop's legacy?
Speaker 4 (36:20):
Thank you? And if I didn't say thank you for
having us on the show, this is the time I'd
like to acknowledge that it means that our lives have
come to there's a there's a consciousness for me when I,
when I, when I, when I see the title, it
(36:41):
speaks to a consciousness in terms of my splintered life
is no longer, you know. And there was a story
of a young guy who used to go to a convention.
And those of us that are church people will know
this story will relate to it. He went to a
convention and and and he stayed with his boyfriend, and
every time people but they were staying in secret, and
(37:05):
every time someone would come to the door, they had
agreed he would go under the bed and hide until
they left. And I remember him saying one time in testimony,
I don't have to hide under the bed anymore. And
oh my god, I don't have to go to a
(37:26):
convention and pretend like I'm somebody over here and I'm
somebody else there. And he was a popular musician, And
I know tons of people who are even out there
like that today up to today, and I would say
to them that hella black, hella queer, is hella Christian
saying no, we don't have to hide under the bed anymore.
(37:49):
We don't have to put ourselves under the bed in
the closet in anywhere we are free to live our
lives the wholeness of who we are, in the dynamic
gifts that we bring to it, in the singularity of oneness,
(38:10):
and enjoy the power of all that means.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Wow, you know, beattitude. You you remind me of something
that I've had to kind of revisit address think about
over the course of making this film, because you know, yeah,
(38:40):
hella black, hella queer, hella christian. Obviously, I mean I
didn't I didn't know Carl Bean personally, but I feel
like he would have embraced, you know, the spirit of
all that that means, you know, and being able to
sort of have all those things, you know, for of
a better phrase, under one umbrella, you know, under one
(39:03):
you know this in this encapsulated in that that that
that that's that phrase. You know. I grew up in
the church up until I was about fifteen, and and
I knew also very early on that I was gay
(39:25):
and obviously I'm black, So that's you know, those two,
you know, the black and the gay thing were two
things that you know that I knew, you know that
that you know that were were me and then the
Christian thing was something that I struggled with because I
(39:46):
didn't know that all those three things could coexist, you know.
And so you know, at a certain point, I uh,
I don't know if it was just a decision I
made or but I let go of my sense of
(40:08):
what it meant, my sense of what it meant to
be a Christian because it didn't seem to be compatible
with what the Church thought, the Church that I knew,
I thought my Christianity could be given the fact that
(40:28):
I'm also gay. So I still have a vexed relationship
to this idea of being Christian. I still do. I'm sorry,
I just do you know.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
No apologies, no, no apologies needed, And I think that's
something important to see.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Yeah, and so so working on this film, I'm just like, man, like,
did I have you know, did I you know, you know,
did I have did I have to? You know? Again, like,
was it a choice? Did it just happened? Wasn't an evolution?
You know? I don't know, because there's certainly there's you know,
you know, some of the Christians I know need to
you know, could be a little more Christian, you know,
(41:10):
And I'd like to believe that in certain ways that
I live my life, I actually might be more Christian
than those who proclaim to be Christian. So anyway, that's
a long way around saying that, you know, I'm trying
to get back to at least you know, one of
(41:31):
the good things that's come out out of this process
of being involved in this film is, you know, can
I find my hell a Christian again? Like you know,
is there is there?
Speaker 4 (41:42):
You know?
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Can I can I get Can I at least find
something about it that that makes sense for me, you know,
you know, in the in the context of who I
am now. So yeah, anyway, I think.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
That ship would Archbishop's job and work was centered around
the knowledge of knowing the destructiveness, the destructive element, the
trauma of air quotes Christianity. In fact, I know it
was because we talked at length many nights into the
(42:21):
morning about that. That being both of our experience and
we were clearly aware that we would have to move
through these muddy waters of Christianity and identifying some of
these religious beliefs that were put upon people that created
(42:47):
the trauma of their entire life, their existence, and would
be inviting Archbishop invited us to surrender those beliefs and
to surrender the hypocrisy and still be okay with God,
you know. And so Wellington, I think your testament today
(43:10):
around the struggle and the I'm calling this struggle you
didn't use that term, but just the decisions around Okay,
I've got these other elements in my life. Now, what
are we going to do with this Christianity thing? Because
when we get to the core of Christianity, there's a
lot to burrow through and layers and layers. But I
(43:32):
have to bring it back to Archbishop and our intent
and continues to be to really be able to courageously
identify some of those areas where it doesn't feel Christian.
When I can be anything else, I can be Paul's
murderer and be okay, not only a murderer, but a
(43:55):
serious killer, like kill thousands of people and God forgive me.
But to be gay, it's even worse than that. And
that's the challenge that Archbishop embraced and taught us how
to embrace it.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Hey Man and and Wellington, we definitely pray that you
can find your Hello Christian again as well. And it
may not even look like being Christian, but you know,
I just pray that you're able to plug back into
(44:34):
that godlight that lives in you, because as much as
you miss it, it misses you too.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
So I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
I really you're welcome. And then Wellington, you also said something.
It was a little tongue in cheap, but it was
it was incredibly important about how a lot of Christians
could learn how to be more christ Like. And that
even made me think about on what theattitude Jones said
around the beattitudes, and how a lot of Christians do
(45:04):
not know about them, and how and so much of
our teaching and preaching within the Christian Church, so much
of it is not on the beatitudes, right, And these
are supposed to be the things that directly came from
the mouth of the one that we call Messiah and Savior, right,
And it kind of makes me think about something that
I heard from Reverend doctor Valerie Bridgeman for at least
(45:30):
for this for this era of Christianity, that most of
us know, most of us follow Paul more than we
follow Jesus, and you and most of us are Paul
(45:51):
Lenians more than we are Christians. But that's another conversation
for another time.
Speaker 4 (46:01):
What an important one.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
Thanks for sticking with Hella Black, Hella Queer, Hello Christian.
But next question I do want to ask, and I
think we started and if you had anything else you
(46:24):
wanted to add, please feel free to do so. Both Beatitude,
Jones and Wellington, what are your thoughts on the still
ongoing struggle that lgbt Q Christians overall experience, but specifically
Black LGBTQ Christians experience around acceptance and justice both within
(46:46):
and outside of the church, and these decades after Unity
Fellowship was founded, what do you think Archibishop Being would
have to say to us at this juncture as far
as issues of LGBTQ equity and justice within the church
(47:06):
and within the Black Church.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
I want to try to speak to this a little
bit more from a broader context, a little bit because
because I think my answer today is is different than
it would have been, you know, eight months ago, you know,
ten months ago, because obviously, you know, I thought, I think,
(47:32):
you know, we had made sort of enormous strides, you know,
both in terms of well just you know, you know,
people of color, LGBTQ people, LGBTQ people of color, just
in terms of you know, the fight wasn't over the
work wasn't done. But but you know, but everything from
(47:54):
marriage equality to to our first black president would have
suggested that we had made enormous strides. But we can
see how easily and how quickly these things can change,
(48:14):
you know, with with with you know, with just the
change in the precedent, you know, uh uh, with names
being taken off buildings, records being archived, museums being challenged
in terms of you know, their their their uh uh uh,
you know their idea, you know their their collections. I
(48:35):
mean I could list of of you know, a hundred
things right here that that everybody knows about. So you know,
I'm scared, you know, I get you know, I'm scared.
I'm worried about all the things that can be undone
(48:57):
are being undone. You know what to do? You know
how to respond to the to the rapid fire, daily
assault you know, on our spirit, on the law, on
people's families. You know. Uh so, so I don't know it.
(49:24):
And you make a film like this and you think, okay, well,
all right, they take this piece away, or they challenge this,
or they dismantled that. You know, we can put this
one little piece back to try to build you know
to to to build, you know, to put another a
(49:45):
break back in the building that they have taken a bulldoze,
you know, a wrecking ball to. So you know, the
fight goes on. We have to keep going. You know,
I don't know. I don't have the answers. You know,
you know, the struggle is real.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
Thank you, Thank you for that though powerful powerful Wellington.
Speaker 4 (50:12):
And I don't know if you heard it, Joseph, but
I heard a conversion and in his opening statement there
on that set, I heard a complete conversion eight years ago.
But now I'm here. That's an evolution for me. So
I think that that's that was really powerful and that
is wonderful. I think that's what the film is supposed
(50:33):
to do. I think that is exactly well, maybe not
supposed to, but that's one of the things that it does.
I want to acknowledge, and I guess my response is
hearing the question as thoughts on on the ongoing struggle
for acceptance and justice. So I want to acknowledge the
trauma and pain that you know, people are experiencing still today,
(51:00):
and I want to I want to offer whatever compassion
this tool is able to convey around what that feels
like and and and and of course that process is individualize.
Everybody can be at different places and all of that
be a part of the struggle and a part of
(51:26):
liberty and justice for all. And so I want to
acknowledge that, but I was the one to not necessarily
leave it there, but to talk about you know again,
the film Uh, you Know addresses a current issue of
exclusion in black churches. And we're seeing a time where
(51:51):
Black churches are struggling to survive because new generations are
not accepting the hypocrisy and and and and and that
is statistics that are verifiable. Those are facts. They're not
accepting their parents' religion as it as it has been
(52:13):
passed on, so that it includes the exclusion of lgbt
q i A people. You don't have to go far
on the internet to hear black preachers just speak vehemently
about and look at them make mockery. And I feel
like sometimes it's coming directly at me in terms of
just almost the description UH, and the condescending words and
(52:37):
the unloving thoughts. So we want to just recognize that
this film is still relative and it still speaks very
strongly to the message of liberation that there may be
a listener out there that if it comes your way,
it would be great for you to go and to
(52:58):
experience it. And then lastly, I just wanted to, you know,
talk about this sort of new new era that we're
in even inside of the black struggle. Like before, we
had the Civil rights Black Power movement, right and we
(53:19):
had it did some very powerful things to address some
of those issues that have been itemized by Wellington eloquently,
and and and and yet we did a lot of
incredible work during that time. And and someone says, well,
we've been here before, and I would argue, we've not
(53:43):
been here before because before we didn't have as many
unapologetic both courageous knowing that we know that, we know
that we know God loves us as we are in
the in the struggle. We're now in the struggle, and
we're not going anywhere, and we're not we're not being
(54:05):
you know, intimidated by scripture, your scriptures, your religiosity, we're
not being intimidated by any of that craziness. And we're
in the fight this time. And I would say, as
they say in the Bible, woe to the oppressor. I
don't care who that is I don't care what color
the oppressor is. And we know that God is not
(54:28):
answering both the oppressor's prayer and the oppressed, and so
we are fully armed and we are fully convinced God
is on our side on this time around. And so
we stand strong, We stand bold, We stand unapologetically, ready
and armed to switch the tides yet again, to show
(54:52):
up yet again strong, and to be like the Trojan
horse effect where when we do complete this round, they'll
be scratching their hands once again. How did they do it?
How was it possible? Well, it's possible because we do standbold,
we do stand as a community, we do have Hella
(55:13):
black Hell he a Christian, and we are sending our
message strong and loud that we are here and we
are not going anywhere, and we are prepared for the fight.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (55:28):
Amen. And then the next to last question the attitude Jones,
that would really like for you to come in as clergy,
because I really am going to pivot this to clergy.
I saw so much of myself in this documentary, and
I saw so much of myself and archbishop being.
Speaker 4 (55:52):
But one of the things the ending.
Speaker 1 (55:58):
Of the documentary struck me and really stood out to me.
And really the last chapter in Chapters of Archbishops Means
Life really arrested my heart strengths because basically, as we
(56:19):
see in the documentary, Archbishop Being from a young child,
was someone who had to carry a lot, and they
did what so many of us within the Black community
and within the Black LGBTQ community and within the Black
(56:41):
church community, due to our detriment. We lean on our
spirituality and we forge. We lean on our spirituality and
we forge. We lean in our spirituality, and we pushed forward,
and we pushed forward, and in that pushing forward, so
many times were also pushing down.
Speaker 3 (57:07):
And with.
Speaker 1 (57:09):
Archbishop Being, who was not just clergy, was not just
a bishop, who was not just a minister, but as
folks will see through the documentary, was also a seer
and a mystic and someone who was blessed and burdened
with a relationship where God came to them in arresting dreams,
(57:36):
and someone who did all of this amazing work while
pushing down, pushing down, until the point where in a
just a very sad way, his body shut down and
his body said no more. And unfortunately he did have
(57:58):
to spend a chunk of his latter years really confined
and homebound. And I bring all that up to say,
is to say and to ask you Beattitude Jones. What
would you share with clergy, particularly those who are justice
(58:19):
seeking clergy, who are doing the work both within and
outside of the walls. What would you share as far
as the importance of self care and not just spirituality,
but also making sure that you're getting counseling and that
you are in relationship with a mental health profession.
Speaker 4 (58:42):
Wow wow wow wow. Well, okay, so I tried to
practice all those things that you just mentioned self care.
I tried to make sure that I'm eating correctly, that
I exercise, that I do all of the things that
I need to do because and maybe it's because I
(59:05):
walked so closely with a leader who felt that sacrificing
himself was a part of the call and had a
vision beyond this world. And I walked with Archbishop to
(59:29):
the last day of his life, and I tried many
times to get him to do something other than his
choice of treatment. He was very clear that this was
his to do. Archbishop would spend hours in the car
(59:54):
driving across the country building churches and had a very
traditional preacher kind of mentality that God is gonna think
that God is gonna think of God's gonna make everything okay.
And you know I came up behind. Oh no, we're
(01:00:15):
gonna be different preachers. We know Monday, my office is closed.
Folks has got to understand you got to have boundaries
blah blah blah blah blah. So I was gonna be that,
you know, and and yet I get it because our
work never finishes. We have to have the discipline to quit.
You never finished the world and that, you know, to
(01:00:37):
clergy who are in this struggle. You know what amazes
me is that our network of support is so divided
and it's so hard to befriend each other within the
community of freedom fighters. You know, we're good at meetings,
(01:01:02):
we're good when we come to the you know this talk,
this panel that, But then when we finish lifting the
consciousness of the world, we go home alone, and we
go home to an isolated world because oftentimes we fall
into this image of being perfect. We don't drink, we
(01:01:28):
don't smoke, we don't mess with folks who do blah
blah blah blah blah, and we're in our lives are
this and that, and yet when we discover and we
have on the other side of that that we watch
porn too. We some of us smoke, not saying that
(01:01:50):
I do. That's nobody's business, but it exists. We drink,
We have the same struggles that everybody else does. And
this isolation is killing us. And We've got to build
trust among each other. I'm not saying we have to
hang out, hang all of our dirty airs out, that's
(01:02:11):
no one's business. But we've got to build trust in
that leadership rank that allows us to be human, that
allows us to just be Zachary, no air, no title,
no none of that, but just be us and find
(01:02:33):
ways and healthy ways of escapism, find healthy ways to
hang out with friends, and make sure that that is
equally as sacred. I'm here, I am working on Monday,
my seventh today, So I'm breaking a cardinal rule here
(01:02:54):
because I felt it was important. But you know that
that day that's set aside for family, be that that
set aside for you and your lover or your partner,
be that, and and and and one last thing, you know,
the least goes on vulnerability is human dare to be vulnerable.
(01:03:19):
I don't you know, I'll take a risk to let
people know no, no, no, I am not on the
pedals to because I've you know, none of that. I've
been in ministry doing this work for forty three years,
and and and and and none of that got me
any more money, any more dollars anymore of this because
even after doing a lot of the so called ministerial perfectness,
(01:03:42):
they still did you just like Jesus, They'll still stab
your hand, you and and and be cutthroat when they
want to be. So you have to recognize the source
and recognize that that a lot of that is my
ego at work and not me doing the work that
I'm supposed to be doing, because what good am I? Dead?
(01:04:03):
What good am I not here? What good am I?
You know? And and and and the stress level has
a lot to do with our diet, with our our
sleeping habits, our stress level of people dying and and
and and having to do funerals and whatnot. You've got
(01:04:25):
to be able to create those boundaries that are healthy.
You've got to be able to just be you with
a group of friends that allow you to be you.
Don't let you know your personal friends call you a
reverend or don't just don't stop them, just no, no
stop that, you know, don't let them. Don't be around
people who are just going to talk shop all the time. No,
(01:04:46):
I'm not here to talk shop. I want to talk
about Superman and how sorry I thought Superman was. I
want to talk you know, I want to talk about
naked Gun and and and how this naked gun was
not as funny as the other ones. That's all I
want talk about. I want to talk about shop. I
want to talk about healings. I want to talk about
any of that, because this is a time that I
(01:05:07):
get a chance to.
Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
Jesse, thank you for that beatitude, Jones and Wellington. I
know we're asking a little bit pastime for you, so
before we let you go so that you can take
care of your other duties, first and foremost, thank you
for joining us today and thank you for what you offered.
And then as far as the final question for you
(01:05:29):
know this portion of the show, just let us know
how can we support Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:05:34):
So I just want to say, first of all, Joseph,
thank you so much for today, for what you do,
for who you are, and also for that that brilliant opening.
I didn't even get to I wanted to applaud how
you came in with song, you came in with your
occapella all right, oh my god, your acapella version of
(01:05:55):
I was born this way. I'm sorry. I just have
to I have to give you your props for that.
So that was beautiful. That was beautiful. We might have
to call on you for a special event. Oh when
we get this film release, I'm gonna remember that. I
gotta file that away. But so anyway, but I just
(01:06:15):
want to say thank you for this opportunity too, to
talk about Carl, this film, my own experience with this film,
to be a part of your show, to get to
know you a little bit. And yeah, it's it's it's
it's it's it's been it's it's been a real it's
been a real, a real, genuine pleasure. And and and
(01:06:41):
I'm gonna call I'll let you know how you can help,
because that song you were singing, that might be the
way that you can help. But I'll keep you posted
on it, and we'll definitely let you know about the
larger release of the film. We've got some upcoming festival
screenings and we're still actively looking for distribution. But Hopefully
they'll come a time when when and we will be
able to tell you, uh more definitively how your audiences
(01:07:06):
can see the film, you know, on a on a
mass scale. But again, thank you for for.
Speaker 4 (01:07:14):
Are we are we in Maryland?
Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
Suit I was, I was just getting ready to say
I believe Daniel told me y'all get ready to be
a board.
Speaker 3 (01:07:21):
We are. I don't know that we have an exact
I think we're waiting on the exact date, but yes,
we are going to be in and and uh in
Maryland Film Festival. We're just waiting on the on the date.
As soon as we know, we'll we'll get that, we'll
get that over to you.
Speaker 1 (01:07:37):
Great, okay, and then because sooner that would kind of
be like a hometown show for Archbishop be absolutely, I
might I might have to hop on the Mark trains.
And then as far as the singing, that's just that
Black Church training for you. You have to ever be
ready and you have to be it. You have to
(01:07:59):
be on and in pitch. And so with that being said,
just want to thank everybody for another episode of Hella Black,
Hello Queer, Hello Christian. I will definitely always make sure
you pay attention to the show notes because you never
(01:08:19):
know what goodies you'll find there. And also just make
sure that you like that, you comment, that you share,
and you subscribe. So until the next time, be kind
to yourself, take care of yourself, and take care of
each other. Hella Black, Hello Queer, Hello Christian is a
production of iHeartMedia on the Outspoken Slate, which seeks to
(01:08:42):
amplify LGBTQ voices in podcasting. I am your host and
executive creative producer Joseph Frees, along with Gabrielle Collins, who
also serves as executive producer. Dylan You Are is a producer.
Triple is our lead producer and
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