June 17, 2025 • 58 mins
Inspired by the high profile deaths of Rich Homie Quan, DMX, Michael K. Williams, Michael Jackson, and Prince, we sat down with our friends Alfonso "Trey" Campbell III and Dane Ray to have a conversation around Black Mxn across the gender/sexuality spectrum and our relationship with substance use and misuse. The conversation looks to the past, faces the present, and seeks to offer tools to build a future rooted in healing and community.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello, and welcome to the first episode of Hella Black,
Hello Queer, Hello Christian. My name is Joseph Fries, and
I am the host and creator of this podcast. While
you all are hearing this episode in June of twenty
twenty five, this episode was actually recorded in November of
(00:23):
twenty twenty four, and the reason why I'm sharing that
is because you may hear some time references that may
not necessarily line up. Just wanted to share that with
you for clarity before this episode began, before you started
listening to the episode. Once again, thank you so much
for deciding to take this journey with me. I'm looking
(00:43):
forward to the ride together. Please like these comments, Please share,
please subscribe, reach out to let us know how you
like the episode, and please enjoy. Welcome to another episode
(01:09):
of Hella Black, Hella Queer, Hello Christian. I am your host,
Joseph Freese pronounced are they them? This is a fully
fully queer, fully human, fully divine podcast around sexuality, culture, spirituality,
and other fresh fied niggas ship I feel like talking
about with my dope ass friends, and I am so
(01:30):
glad to have some great brothers in the chat with
me today for a really important conversation. So I am
going to begin to introduce them and then we'll have
an icebreaker and we can get into this conversation, which
I feel is really important and vital. So we are
going to start with my friend, our fons so. Trey
(01:53):
Campbell a native of Hyattsville, Maryland, who serves as a
board member for the Shalem Institute for Spiritual Information with
This is a contemplative organization that seeks to help those
who are seeking deeper exploration of their spirituality. Trey is
a proud graduate of Howard University with a Bachelor's of
Science degree in psychology and also holds a Master of
(02:16):
Divinity from the Samuel DeWitt Proctor School of Theology at
Virginia Union. Trey is also a photographer who specializes in
capturing life as it is. Furthermore, he has an unwavering
commitment to justice and creating safe spaces that are inclusive
for all voices. Thank you for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Trade grateful to be here, Grateful to be here, and
my friend, I'm looking forward to the conversation.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, so that was like the official bio, but not
yet twenty but close to twenty years. Me and Trey
have known each other through the Mecca, through the Cashstone
of Negro education, the Beyonce of HBCUs Howard University. And
(03:05):
not only are we Bison, but we came through as
Chapel assistance of the illustrious Rank in Chapel where our
dean was the one and only Reverend, Doctor Bernard L. Richardson.
And Trey has just been a friend. And when I
got this opportunity, I knew that Trade was one of
the folks that I was going to have to have
(03:28):
on this podcast. Okay, and then next I am going
to introduce Dane Ray is a licensed clinical professional counselor
with over twenty three years of expertise dedicated to four
string healing, resilience and empowerment across diverse communities. Dane currently
is a trailblazer who uses internal family systems in the
(03:50):
treatment setting. With roots grounded in both Nigerian and Geechee heritage,
Dane invities a dynamic blend of cultural knowledge, compassion and
profess national excellence. Dane brings a profile commitment to breaking
down barriers and healthcare for marginalized communities, but particularly for
LGBTQIA plus and gender diverse individuals as a recognized voice
(04:13):
in public health. They have partnered with Washington DC's HOSTA Division,
which is where I met Dane back in twenty sixteen
when we were health impact specialists, and Dane has also
conducted impactful research focused on the gaps in healthcare their
communication that affect trans and gender expansive people. Dane's work
has helped shape inclusive clinical practices and educational programs, illuminating
(04:38):
the urgent need for a patient center approach in gender
affirming care. Through DNA Consulting Services LLC, Dane has transformed
industry standards, leading initiatives that provide cutting edge training, mentorship,
and cultural responses strategies to therapists, educators, and healthcare professionals nationwide,
their consentations and power over organization to create inclusive environments
(05:01):
that prioritize mental wellness and social equity. Thane's leadership extends globally,
delivering workshops and speaking engagements that resonate with audiences across
the healthcare, corporate and cultural sectors. Th ain't thank you
so very much for joining us today.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Absolutely, I'm glad to be a part.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
YEP and once again we're glad to hear you and
once again, thank you so much for joining. And then
you know, Russian a little bit today is given a
little bit madic Monday vibe, but we hear and now
we're going to move into the ice breaker, and today's
icebreaker question is going to be what is the first
(05:45):
celebrity death that really impacted you and did it have
something to do with substance use and abuse? And I
do have to say that the first big death to
really impact that that kind of like really shook me
to my core. Thursday, June twenty fifth, two thousand and nine,
(06:10):
had just the summer was just starting. I was back
in New York after having completed my first year of
Howard and I was in Brooklyn, New York, in the
basement of the rd Lord Project, which is a local
LGBT organization that I worked at, and me and my
sister e Jarifs were getting to and we're getting things
(06:31):
together for the Pride weekend that year, and we start
to get notifications that the King of Pop, Michael Jackson
had died. E Jerriss said, We're gonna wait until the
Associated Press says something, because the tablawyers had been killing
(06:55):
MJ all for years at this point, right, and suring enough,
I think maybe about it took about an hour, and
the associated press did indeed report that, you know, Michael
had passed. And then as we would come, you know,
(07:16):
to find out more and more details about his death,
we would find out that it actually did include drugs
and it did include an addiction to prescription medication. So
that was the first death that really impacted me. And
then you know, Trey, you can go in and you
(07:37):
can provide you and answer that question all right.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Once again, Trey pronounced he him, So of course I
think that was the same for me.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
So I would first say that Michael death because I
remember too very vibili. I think I was walking into
vacation Bible school, and of course I think I would
I guess twenty one at the time, so I think
I was teaching. But I remember just being stunned because
one of the first movies I ever saw was Jackson five, right,
(08:09):
and being put on to Michael, uh was something that
was huge for me. But if I were to say
to go with a different answer, I think I would
say the death of Nipsey.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
I knew you was going to say Marathon.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
And particularly I think with Michael there was that distance
a little bit. With Nipsey, that was someone a couple
of years older than me, right uh and so, and
I had been resonating with the new album three Lap,
listening to it every day up to that moment, and
I just remember the way like it kind of shook me, like,
oh wow, like this is you know, it just gave
(08:52):
this fragileness to life. And then I think, while not
directly related to draw, I'm sure in some way it's murderer.
I think that there's something there with that, right, so
even and not there's the intersection of mental health, drugs
(09:14):
sticks of that nature too. So I would say that
that was the first death that really kind of like
rocks in that way.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
And then I had known of Nipsy and then kind
of and then it was the same thing with Pack
and Biggie. I got more into their work posthumously that
I did when they were actually alive. But the thing that,
you know, as we continue to remember Nipsey, I think
(09:42):
the thing that really got me about Nipsy is that
me and Nipsy actually were the same age, so like
so like we were both born in eighty five. My
birthday is in July. His birthday is in August, so like, yeah,
(10:03):
so when I kind of found out more about it,
it was like, ooh, this is a little bit too
close to me. So so that was just so that
was even how you know, no it may not have
been you know, he would you know, in addiction, but
still kind of like that street trade. So like you
were just kind of alluding to we can still kind
(10:24):
of like even trace it to you know, black men
and our you know, our struggles, you know, with with
suction issues and the impact of such issues on our
community and really just the various ways that we try
to survive and like find community and that aren't always
(10:44):
the most productive. So man, thank you for that sharing trade.
So Dame going to ask you to come in, give
your pronouns, and then the first big celebrity death that
impacted you.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Absolutely absolutely delighted to be in the space. Dane Ray
is my professional name. If you are to culturally affirm me,
you can use my given name of the diaspora, which
is Old Malari. So either Olu or Oluwada Malari or
Dane is fine. Those are the pronouns that I use.
I don't use any gender or gender adjacent pronouns. And
(11:21):
as far as the celebrity death of Joseph, you definitely
took my MJ had I remember that day I had
to take off from work. I was stunned. I was
in absolute freeze mode. I couldn't really process, couldn't accept
you think about the way that you know MJ's legacy
transitted generations. But the person that I will choose, I'll
say Prince, and I'll say Prince for the simple fact
(11:41):
that I don't think a lot of people paid a
lot of attention to Fentanohl, and I think that people
are paying a lot more attention to fentanyl nowadays, and
I think it is important to continue to call attention
to fentanyl and its impact. Even though it was an accident,
it's deemed an accidental reduced or over prescription that definitely
(12:03):
impacted me for sure. Even even going back to Minnesota,
my wife is actually from Minnesota, and so we had
a chance to go to where they pay homage to Princess,
so they reset the entire the entire estate on a
weekly basis. I think just because there's so much that
people bring from all over the world internationally, and so
just to feel it's palpable the legacy, the impact of that,
(12:26):
of that loss and that how he's changed planes now.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah, definitely, and I still want to get out to
his estate to visit is. I think it's one of
those if you're a love of music, particularly if you're
a love of black music like I am. I do
think that it's one of those pilgrimage, that pilgrimages that
(12:50):
you have to make. And you know, definitely Prince was
kind of like an impact for me as well, kind
of like in those ways, and it was just one
of those things where like you knew one day eventually
he was gonna die, but you just kind of weren't
prepared for Prince to die. And then even as we
(13:14):
talk about Michael Jackson and as we talk about Prince,
I would be remiss, even though she is not a
black man, I would be remiss if we did not
lift up Nippy. I would be remiss if we did
not remember Whitney Elizabeth Houston, who also right passed away,
(13:35):
you know, from her struggles with addiction, and I bring
her up like in the context of Michael Jackson and
Prince because for me, as someone who was born in
eighty five, just really kind of dealing with how the
three big black megastars of that time period are now
(13:57):
all dead. And I think Michael was the only one
that lived to see fifty because Whitney died at forty eight,
and if Prince did live, like live to see fifty,
he was like in his early fifties. So well, thank
(14:19):
you all for answering that question. I do think that
right now will be a good time to go tip
up that church finger, go pay the water bill. So
we are going to take a break and after these
messages we will be right back. Welcome back to Hella Black,
(15:03):
Heller Queer. Hello Christian. Once again, I am your host,
Joseph pronouns are they them? And this is a fully black,
fully queer, fully human, fully divine podcast around sexuality, spirituality, culture,
and other fresh fried nigga shit that I feel like
talking about with my dope ass friends. And once again,
I am so glad to have my dope ass friends
(15:26):
Trey and Dane here with me today to lead us
in this conversation which I feel is really important. And
then it is somewhat kism that we're having this conversation
today because just me nerding out as a pop culture person.
This is also the thirty second anniversary of Spike Lee's
(15:48):
epic biopic Malcolm X being released into theater Starr and
Denzel Washington. So to be here, as black men across
our diverse experiences, to be having this conversation on this
day just seems to make it even more special and
healthy to confirm even more how important it is. So
(16:11):
this conversation was inspired back in September. From back in September. September,
the fifth actually of this year, we lost tragically rapper
rich Homie Kwan. Rich Homie Kwan at the time of
(16:35):
his death was thirty four years old. He was about
a month out from his thirty fifth birthday, And like
too many of our young brothers, particularly you know, within
the hip hop genre, especially within the recent years, because
(16:56):
like it seems like growing up in the nineties, we
seemed to lose a lot of our hip hop artists
to gun violence. But like it since let's say, like
the beginning of the aught, So from twenty ten on,
it just seems like we've been losing so many of
our young black men either to suicide or to an
(17:17):
accidental overdose. And with rich Hony Kwant. Unfortunately he was
one of those that we lost to an accidental overdose.
And then the day after we heard the news of
rich Horny Kwan's death was the third anniversary of the
(17:39):
death of Michael K. Williams, so the famous actor from
The Wire. Many remember him as Omar For me as
a young black gay person coming up in the early
two thousands, he was definitely a groundbreaking in landmark role
for me. And the September the sixth of this year,
so the day after rich horn We Kwan was the
third and versary of his passing, we also lost him
(18:03):
to to accidental overdose. And then as we were talking
about in the Icebreaker, it got me to thinking about
Michael and Prince and how we lost them to accidental
overdoses in regards to prescription medication. And it's kind of like,
I really feel like we don't talk about the ways
that Michael and Prince died in the ways that we
(18:25):
talk about some other people, but they did die as
a as a result of addiction. And then of course
I thought about d m X, who we also lost
around that time, also another young another black man who
we lost to addiction, and substance use and abuse in
regards to his struggles with drugs and alcohol. And I
(18:49):
just started to see a thread, and I saw a
thread that I really felt like needed to be addressed
through the platform that I've been given with Hella Black, Hello, queer,
Hello Christian. These all the type of conversations that I
want to have, and I don't think that we're having
them enough. And as I've shared been able to share
(19:09):
with Trey, was able to share with my comrade Yolo Robinson,
who hedged the Beam organization out in California, whenever we
have these conversations around black men and wellness, we have
them in these silos where it feels like, since he had,
black men kind of get the main stage for to
(19:31):
have these conversations, and then black gay and bisexual man
we kind of get the side room. And then black
men of trans experience have to find their own spaces
even outside of that, to have like these conversations in
like these silence. And I just really wanted something today
where black men across the gender spectrum, were cross across
(19:55):
the sexuality spectrum, could get together, even if just for
a couple of minutes, uh, just to break bread together
and to see if we can't begin to find some
solutions to this problem. What were you all taught and
what kind of like what was kind of like that
narrative of origin that you remember receiving as far as
(20:20):
black men and substanceutes.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
That's a that's a good question and always, uh, it's
always I think good to be able to sit back
and trace the the origin stories and narratives of how
something came into or how an idea or a concept
kind of came into your mind.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
And and I say I did concept thinking about like
I think I grow up during the time of what
dare and you know, like moms against drink with it,
drunk driving, right, and and so everything to me kind
of came from this perspective of like fear right and
back then you know, we're just talking about cigarettes primaily,
(21:04):
right and then and then everything else was just like
the real boogieman.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
Right, like you're not.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
You know, you're not even really kind of discussing all
the other quote unquote right like drugs and stuff.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
But like and we was the gateway drug, yes exactly,
and and and and and the moment you took a
puffet it was it was just a matter of time
before you were strung out on skied.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Row exactly exactly right. And so there's this first kind of.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Like I think almost like uh in position of like
fear that's placed on you by those who are teaching you.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
And I think that like that was like the initial
kind of framing for me, just kind of seeing everything too,
like the drug programs are just staying away. But I
think as I and older, I've begin to kind of
see the faultiness and like those original teachings right, like
(22:05):
it was there was a much more expansive conversation we
probably could have been having around just the understanding of
like our relationship with each of those why people may
choose to participate right or to to.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
Two, you know, why why there may be even addiction?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Right, Like we weren't necessarily kind of like having those
like wider conversations. It was just stay away from those things,
right and so but nobody's talking to you about when
you get older on stress that comes from living in
this world, right uh. And so I think that like
that was the first sort of like rooting grounding. It
kind of came from those like drug programs.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Or like even okay, you don't want us to, but
what all the what are the alternatives, what are the mindfulness?
Absolutely like, what other outing practices that we can use?
And then even as you were sharing, it's kind of
like what we were taught about drugs. We were also
taught about sets, keep your legs closed and just don't
(23:12):
do it until you get married. Yeah, yeah, and you
know and then you know, I too, am a dare graduate.
THEA had to keep a kid off drugs. There, to
keep a kid off dope, there to give a kid
some help, there, to give a kid some hope. Yet
we stood and we sang that in sixth grade. And
you know, I remember growing up and seeing that this
(23:35):
is your brain on drugs commercial and I believed that shit.
I bought it hook line and sinker to where you
don't if it looked like you were going to if
it looked like you were going to light up, I
got out and I left because it was like, no,
I have to leave because if I get caught in it,
(23:56):
it's just gonna be this downward spiral mitchet, which statistically
has been proven to like not necessarily be true as
far as the whole conversation around marijuana being quote unquote
a gateway drug. But you know, thank you for sharing Trey,
and now Dane, we would love for you to come
(24:16):
in and just share, like what was your origin story
around what you were taught around black men and substance
use and or abuse.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
So that's a that's a really insightful question and my
answer is nuanced. So as we talk about like black narratives,
I think black narratives are nuanced. So there is, you know,
one narrative around what I was told you how I
was reared and raised. So I was raised by pretty
(24:47):
moderate to conservative parents. I was also raised under the
banner of the Christian faith. My parents are deeply involved
in the church. My dad, as a church leader, had
his own church, and I myself, at the age of nineteen,
got fully licensed in the African Methodist Episcopal Church. So
we talked about narratives like there's like this polity that
(25:10):
I had to follow. There's you know, the performative aspect
in black hierarchy that you have to follow. So there's
that narrative. But then there's also the narrative of lived experience.
You know, I have a mom from Baltimore, Maryland, I
have a dad from North Philadelphia and alcohol was probably
the least of my family substance worries. And as as
(25:31):
you know, I had a chance to see a lot
that was that was real. So there was also the
narrative of of what I was shown. There was a
narrative of what I watched. There was the narrative of
behavior and how that encoded into my psyche of how
to navigate the world, what to distance myself from, what
was respectable, what wasn't and so my I guess my
(25:55):
initiation though as my first contact around and with substances
was actually ceremonial with a family member. I don't know
if I was double digits, but it was with Manishevits
and it was done to help me realize how some
spaces were kept with my forbearers, and so I was
(26:18):
able to be included in those spaces where they share
that and so to me, a lot of it was normalized.
And I don't know if this is weird or not,
but I think part of my exposure around substances was
also so that as I got older, I wouldn't be
I wanted to succumb to some substances. I would know
my limits and i'd be able to have some level
(26:40):
of exposure in a controlled environment. So that may not
be the typical experience, but that was definitely my experience
of my early on experiences around alcohol and other drugs
and substances learning about them. So there's one what I
was told and there's also what I learned through behavior
around my communities.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Thank you so much for sharing that, Dan, And even
as you were sharing your experience, it kind of made
me think of kind of like even the traditions in
my family, because my grandmother, May she rest in peace,
she definitely had that tradition with the babies in the
family where she would kind of like poor a little
(27:19):
bit of beer on like onto like her finger, and
then she would like give it to the baby once
they once they got to a certain age, and it
was kind of like an unofficial christening because she said, oh,
just a little bit won't hurt. They need to get
just a little bit. And I actually remember that there
was actually some tension with her and one of my
(27:42):
aunts who married into the family, because when my cousin
was born, this aunt was just very adamant around the
fact that you know, she did not want to start
that with her child and also this aren't her father
had his own history read with alcohol, so she she
(28:02):
really did not want to introduce that to the child,
considering life the hereditary history of substance in the family.
And then even when you brought up Man of Schevins,
of course I thought about communion Sunday and how you know,
people say, ain't nothing wrong with little wine on the
first Sunday because we're remembering the blood. So but but
(28:25):
once again, and I'm probably gonna say this a thousand times,
but each time, each time, I truly do mean it.
Thank you all for your answers, and thank you all
for your sharing. So now that we have talked about
our origin stories and where they started, how would you
say your understanding and your relationship of substance substance use
(28:50):
has changed.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
After becoming fully licensed, I've done some extensive and additional
training to support people UH in a cultural appropriate and
culturally affirmative way, and then culturally from the context that
is safe, that allows them to ground, that allows them
to heal, to make contact with the parts of them
that they would not typically be able to make contact with.
(29:13):
So I walk this very intentional line of holding my
ethics in one hand and holding my communities in the
other and making sure we get healed the right way
that's not in an exclusionary or pathological way. So yeah,
I've had specifically training and champion the use of plant
assisted therapy plant like medicines that would include like ketamine, mbma,
(29:37):
psilocybin in order in a treatment setting or in a
therapeutic setting that is not necessarily just with some spiritual advisor,
but also with someone who knows how to really temper
the set in the setting and knows how to help
you with integration after the experience. So even though we
understand all of the public health outcomes and disparities, I
(30:00):
also understand alchemy'all also understand cultural authenticity, and it is
lost on a lot of people and a lot of
people's lineages of how they used to heal, how they
are able to heal, And so I am a strong
proponent of helping people find and navigate that line for
them of being able to access more holistic healing that
may or may not include plant medicine. But I'm definitely
(30:23):
a proponent for helping people access healing in a way
they typically weren't able to.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Yeah, that thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Dang for that.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
I think that that that's a good way for me.
I think in the way that I've been kind of
framing the conversation at least in my head, and I'm
glad that we're able to have this together. I think
a lot of times when we look at it, we
come to this conversation from a perspective like that pathologizes it, right.
But I love this idea of like the support the assists,
(30:51):
like these are different words healing, paying attention to the
holistic picture here, right, Like I think when we do
to pathologizing, often we're looking at a person and now
we're kind of placing them in this space of judgment, right,
and as if they're separate from us, rather than this
interconnection of understanding that particularly us as as black people
(31:14):
having a unique experience in this world, right, and how
some of the what we're talking about is a result
of being in this society, in this space, in this
country and this nation, in this this this world, making right,
this nation making that we live under. My thought now,
(31:35):
I think in recent years is just like, okay, so
where what am I doing to help craft curate spaces
that are the opposite of that to kind of help
with what's under under lying, right that that that deep
like internal conversation that we're not having the interiority of
our lives, that we're not having rather than just what's
(31:57):
happening as a result of us living our existential sort
of like way in this this this world, right, Like
what does it look like to help people live? And
so I think like that's the way that I'm kind
of coming to the conversation more and more because I
think there's plenty of people that can do research that can
give us the stats and all these you know, wonderful things,
(32:20):
but I do do now come to the conversation more in.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
What does healing look like for you?
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Right?
Speaker 4 (32:29):
Like what does it do?
Speaker 2 (32:31):
What does it look like for us to see people
as fool people and not just oh, this is the addict, right,
this is the person's alcohol use disorder, this is substance use, right,
Like you become these labels, but you're not becoming a
full person with a full story that needs to be
heard as well. And so I think like that's the
perspective I am sort of seeing around everything now. Then
(32:55):
that fear uh sort of story that was kind of
put into me.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
So still thank you, and thank you both because I
you come, you came at it from different angles, and
you both gave like unique answers to that question. But
I still see that thread of really where you both
have been doing the work two destigmatized and to take
(33:26):
the fear out of the conversation, because the fear mongering
has not been a useful tactic. It has not stopped
people from in engaging in substance use and abuse. And
also particularly with with what you shared Dane Jess, because
(33:49):
someone does engage substances or what we consider to be substnesses,
does not necessarily mean that they're an added, does not
necessarily mean that they're bad, does not necessarily mean that
they are in a place where they're not caring for themselves.
And and Dan, I really appreciated what you shared as
(34:12):
far as you know, you know, when it comes to
plant based medicine, which is still a controversial thing for
some people, but I know for a lot of people
it actually is a doorway that aids them in their
spiritual enlightenment. It actually is a doorway that helps them
deal with their anxiety and with their depression and way
(34:35):
that traditional Western medicine does not. And it is something
you know, like with those things like shrews actually do
help people when they're administered, you know, by trained professionals,
and when people experience them in community and they're just
not kind of like locked away in a room isolated
(34:58):
using these substances without you know, anyone there to kind
of like check in on them. And and I have
to share, like my experience has been a lot like cures,
really disavowing the fear and learning to you know, see
(35:20):
people as people and not just seeing them, you know,
for whatever struggle they're in. When we talk about our
origin stories as far as Black men and substance use
and abuse, we also have to look at the ways that,
particularly those of us who came up in the eighties
(35:40):
or even post eighties, the way that this conversation has
been used to villainize black men, particularly like those young
black men that got caught up in the drug trade
by selling drugs, by by by selling illicit street drugs,
and how these young black men we allow society to
(36:03):
tell us that they were monsters instead of our brothers,
instead of our sons, instead of our cousins, like you know,
they were just kind of like these evil perpetrators that
were just roaming the earth looking to destroy community. When
that's not even the whole conversation either, Right, So if
(36:24):
you all could speak a little bit to that, but
then also from yours, from you all's perspectives, address how
you all think the healthcare system and society overall can
do better to serve Black men in regard to this issue.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
So healthcare before like it's almost to the point of,
you know, throw throw the whole thing away, like it's
it's glitching. It's glitching, and it's it's given greed, it's
giving ignorance. In a perfect world, we would hear the
(37:05):
voice of all black men, no matter what their state
or stature is, whether you're incarcerated or experienced incarceration, whether
you are with a.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Family or not.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
We'll be able to hear the voice, the diversity of
the black male voice. And I think hearing the voice
would increase visibility, and visibility would increase access to us
seeing each other and needs. I think that would be
the first thing that could look like community based organizations
capturing needs better through focused groups. It could look like
(37:43):
virtual support and organizing. It also could look like us
funding our own equity and that from a grassroots perspective,
I know that a lot of that work was done
through the Black Panther Party to really take a lot
of autonomy and age and see with the health direction.
And I think that not from a separatist lens, but
(38:06):
from our ownership lens, that there are a lot of
things that we need and if we don't feel that
the external world can help, we have to start in
our internal communities by first naming the issues. And I
don't think that the issues can be addressed in healthcare
unless people are able to kind of sit with themselves,
recognize themselves. So without self awareness, I don't think that
(38:26):
those needs can be articulated. A lot of folks have,
especially black men, have the experience of you know, pain,
being shunned, you knowing you to tell it like you
have to sit on it, you have to take it
on the chin. And I think that once that that changes,
once we are able to kind of acknowledge and accept
(38:48):
and centralize the pain of black men, the full experience,
the full range of experience of black men, will be
able to hold them better in healthcare because along with
you know, black men having pain, black men also have joy.
But how on Earth. Are we going to express joy
and appreciation and resilience if we are, we don't have
a space to hold our pain, we don't have a
(39:10):
space to be well. And so I don't think that
the healthcare system will be able to do that until
they're able to hear voice. And I think that the
system that we have now is designed to expect explicitly
not hear the black male voice that that even goes
to me. Have you ever had a prescription that wasn't
available and that's just because of the zip code you
were in? Like it's that detail? Is that strategic?
Speaker 4 (39:32):
Yeah, I'm I'm I'm in agreement. I think that.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Even as I'm hearing our conversation now, it's like there's
this abstract way that we kind of like approach healthcare, right,
Like we hear about the healthcare system, but what does
it all Like, what's the infrastructure of it? Like, what
does it all entail? Things of that nature, right, And
I think that we aren't creating enough listening spaces in
(40:00):
circles for us as as black men to really have
some some some serious conversations about it. You know, I
think I said a lot of conversations on I'm thinking
social media, right, Uh, the the app that we're all
now fleeing from with with X, right that like with
with like the type of conversations that you have on there.
(40:22):
You don't even see much conversations about this, right, Like,
it doesn't seem like it is a priority, even though
it is like illuminous kind of like cloud over our lives,
right because some of us don't think about it until
a moment happens, right. But but beyond that, it is
about us once again, really listening to those who are
(40:45):
like expanding the conversation and really listening to those who
are having who do want to have these conversations, right.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
And I do think that once.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Again, you know, it's everything that's kind of like tracks
back to this narrative of like what does it look
like to be a man and.
Speaker 4 (41:04):
Take care of myself?
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Right, and those conversations just kind of you know, the
nuance and those conversations need to kind of happen too,
is that from our own end we need to be
kind of helping. Once again, I think there was a
good word to de stigmatize, stigmatize what this conversation looks like, right,
Like what does it need to to care for ourselves,
(41:27):
to care for our health, and then how do we
go about doing organizing work of.
Speaker 4 (41:34):
Either you know, of.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Course providing a voice to what the particular systems are.
But if the systems continue to be slow to put
back into flesh, right if for using you know, biblical language,
how do we put into flesh the practices that are
needed to to help provide.
Speaker 4 (41:56):
For the immediate needs of our people? Right? And I
think that like that is.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Where I think, like over these these next four years
and beyond that, right, it's that we're gonna have to
have a lot of conversation about what do we need
to do.
Speaker 4 (42:15):
Together as a community to watch out for one another.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
So it's funny that you would say the next four years,
because I mean, yes, it's bigger than the next four years,
but also we got to get through these next four years.
And you know, and if we're talking about black men,
I don't want to get too deep into it, but
I'm gonna get into it. The Democratic Party owes black
(42:42):
men in apology. There's a lot of people that owe
black men in apology because there was a lot of
rhetoric that was put out around black men that at
the end of the day, black men statistically disproved, and
I just really don't see that black men were really
given a fair shake in regards to that. And Dan,
(43:05):
I even think I can use this as a way
to reintroduce the first part of the question and present
it in a little bit of a cleaner way, because really,
so the question that I'm trying to ask is, in
this conversation, how do we show more care to those
(43:27):
young black men who are also caught up in this
substance abuse conversation, but they're caught up in it from
the conversation of being the supplier of the drugs. So
how so those who are drug dealers, those who are
street fumplases, how do we address the issue but still
(43:47):
see these people as people as well, and not just
the super predators that they've been characterized as. So hopefully
that's a that's a clear representation of it.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Thank you for the clarity I say this. It's not
it's not a monolith, but I will say the there's
a higher propensity of people to accept change if there
is a decreased sense of liability. So what do I
mean if somebody is a pusher and you can tell
them they could do something different with those same skill
sets without the liability and the interruption of livelihood, then
(44:21):
you know that's going to benefit them. And I think
that a lot of men don't have the person who
could speak the language to make that clear. And the
steps to move as a pharmacist are you're good in chemistry,
you know how to mix this and make that, and
people can't tell that is a skill set. How do
you leverage the skill set and work? When I say leverage,
I mean like capitalized, right, because you have to operate
(44:44):
within the system that you're in, and so really making
that clear, I think that's actually something that Nipsey did
really will really well. He learned how to leverage the
voice in an authentic way within a system that wasn't
necessarily built or desig for him, and he really made
an impact without permission. And I think if you could
tell more people who are on that end of the
(45:07):
relationship of substance kind of transmission between and in the community,
is you show them that pathway, you're able to kind
of help them achieve that self determination. I don't think
you will get as much pushed back when you're able
to make that pathway clear.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
Yeah, I think for me, it's it's a conversation of
like learning to be human with all human parts.
Speaker 4 (45:32):
That makes sense, right, Like that, I.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
As you said, once again, we kind of create these
images of people, right, the super predator, not that becomes
somebody I fear rather than somebody I could actually be
in conversation with. Right, it becomes this is the person
that is the problem for everything that's taking place in society, right,
taking place in our communities. And what we have now
(45:56):
done is we have stripped ourselves from any type of
relationship with that person.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Right.
Speaker 4 (46:01):
And I think what.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
I've seen over time, you know that like things can think,
things have shifted times where like at one point, like
Grandma was like respected, right.
Speaker 4 (46:11):
You did it, you know you did you did it.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
You didn't cross Grandma's house or anybody's grandma's house of
that nature, right, But like there was still that sense
of like connection there. But I think now there are
times where it's like, oh, it doesn't matter, I'm just
I'm just coming for blood or right like or or
I don't care what's what's who's affected by this?
Speaker 4 (46:31):
Right?
Speaker 2 (46:31):
Like, there seems to be like even that sense of
level of like connection I think some of that. While
you can have the conversation about, you know, the the
drugs that are coming in and and and and people
dealing with I think there also has to be a
conversation of like on our on on on.
Speaker 4 (46:47):
The other side of things too.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
It's like how relationships have stopped happening over time because
it's like you start making money, you start going to
the other levels. It's like, all right, well I got
out and I and I'm just kind of like seeing that, man,
what does it look like if we just started having
oddest conversations with one another and being human with one
another and hearing people right? And maybe that's just my
(47:10):
big thing I think I've been on recently.
Speaker 4 (47:12):
It's just like being president enough to listen and see
what's what's what's calling, allowing the voice of those that
we know that we're uncomfortable with, those that have taken
paths that have deemed been harmful to to to our communities,
but also recognize that the first person that they are hurting.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Is themselves as well, right, And how do you help
people see that so they.
Speaker 4 (47:35):
Can also kind of become free from that?
Speaker 2 (47:40):
And maybe that's why I'm always kind of been on this,
this calling right, this is sign of this. The spiritual
aspect of it is paying attention to like what are
we doing to help change what's happening in that internal
conversation that can be that shift maybe from hey, you're
(48:03):
doing it this way, but I'm curious about what happens
if you try to take those energies and put it
into the world this way.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Yep, thank you so much for that. And it's kind
of like you hate to sound like the old head.
That's just like, man, things worn't the way they used
to be back when out but in a very real way,
like they're not though, right, and in a very real
way like we all like losing recipes and even you know,
(48:33):
as as you were sharing about how we need to
have conversation with each other and even kind of like
the piece you brought up earlier around how like these
conversations aren't happening on like these social media apps that
weren't created for conversation because you can't have conversation in
one hundred and forty characters or less, right, And then
(48:54):
I'm even thinking about how, you know, we all walk
around and we're all just in our phones, we're all
face down in our phones or even you know, thinking
about you know how I remember growing up in a
time where if you were you could go on public
(49:15):
transportation and you would see people reading like actual physical media,
reading like an actual copy of a book or an
actual physical copy of a magazine. And now it's just
like we're all like we're all connected and disconnected at
the same time. Thank you all once again for this conversation.
(49:40):
Of course, we were not going to solve anything in
fifty two minutes and thirteen seconds, but at I do
at least think we've started something and we'll be able
to put this out as a spark, just throwing one
pebble into a pond and hoping that it makes ways.
(50:00):
So hope you all enjoyed this conversation. Before we have
the better addiction and wrap up the show, we're gonna
take another break. We'll be right back after these messages. Okay, everybody,
(50:26):
once again, welcome back to Hella Black, Hella Queer. Hello Christian,
and we have already come to the end of another show.
Once again, I want to thank my guest Trey Campbell
and Dane Ray for joining us today, for blessing us
with your insights definitely gave people a lot to think about,
just some a good meal to feast on. That's what
(50:49):
I'm leaving here feeling like today. I just really feel
like it was a great conversation. And if and if
you're listening and you're on your journey with substance use
and abuse, don't even have to be a black man,
but definitely do want to give a special appeal to
our brothers. Of course, the spectrum you can change, there
(51:15):
is life after this. There are people in community that
want to help you, and I hope that you can
find that. So as we are ending the show, I'm
just going to bring it in my guests one last time,
just to share any parting words and let folks know
where they can find you on social media, what you
(51:35):
have coming up next, if anything, because I know sometimes
that can be an anxiety and do some questions. So
if you don't necessarily have anything coming up, that's okay too,
but let people know where they can find you further
connect with you, and just any parting words that you
would like to share. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
Absolutely, just grateful to be able to be in this conversation. Also,
just want to I just take a special note and
just say I'm proud of you. I am a Joseph
and and you allowing the world to be able to
hear your voice, to hear your.
Speaker 4 (52:08):
Thoughts that I think are important and special for this
world to hear.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
So grateful that you are creating this, this space that
I think expands the conversation. And and certainly just in
particularity with this conversation, I'm just just really.
Speaker 4 (52:29):
Mindful of all of us. Just learn to love each
other a little bit better, right, you know, you try to.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
I try to think of deeper things in times, but
sometimes it all comes down to being able to love,
and not in a sentimental way, but in a way
that Bell Hooks would tell us.
Speaker 4 (52:47):
That love is a verb, love is as love does,
and putting flesh on that. And so.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
I just just kind of want to leave in that
and in that way, and and once again just grateful
to be in conversation and also with you as.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
Well, Dan grayful to have you, Trey, and thank you
because here you're gonna have to learn to love each other,
and not in that homemark way. We're gonna have to love,
learn to love each other in ways where we put
ourselves on the line. For each other. If we don't
(53:25):
ain't gonna be a week. But Dane, once again, thank
you so much for joining today. Thank you so much
for your expertise and for your caring and for the
work that you do around this topic even after the
recording will stop on this show, and just anything you
want to share, we'd be more than grateful to receive it.
Speaker 3 (53:48):
Absolutely. Thank you so much, Justin for inviting me. I
had no idea when we were at Houstin that you
will be presenting this level of gift to the world,
something that the world is so deeply thirsty for. So
I'm sitting in deep appreciation. As far as final words,
(54:09):
I just want to share that if you haven't found
a type of a progressing your healing journey, I would
strongly suggest you look up internal family systems. There is
a YouTube video by doctor Tory Olds. She's a white woman,
and she articulates what IFS is about pretty well if
(54:32):
you would like to know more. It is a way
that you can actually start working with yourself and making
contact with the parts of yourself that you may be
escaping from that you may be dissociating from parts of
you that are painful hurt, feel vulnerable, unmet needs, fears.
It is a great way to be able to do that. So,
whether you have a family member who is struggling, share
(54:53):
the word and share this podcast with family and friends
so they can be seen within the words, so they
could be seeing within the message. But grounding and journaling
are really great ways. So if you can just journal
the part of you that feels uncomfortable, the part of
you that feels like it is struggling with the pain
(55:14):
of living, right out with that part of you is
experiencing right out with that part of you feels heavy
about what is the fear or what is the need?
Start there, Start there, what is the fear and what
is the need of the part of you that feels
like it needs to escape or that is struggling with
the pain of living. That is my gift. You can
(55:35):
find me on the Blue Sky app. It's m x
d A N E R A Y the blue Sky app.
You could definitely add me there. I also have a
worksheet though, and so it kind of it consolidates some
of the things that some of the resources I just
told And if any of you are looking for more
of a concrete resource, there are virtual support groups. SAMSA
(55:58):
is a great one as a minority are people of
the global Majority specific support groups ANAMI is also another
great one for looking for what to do next? What
do I do? How do I handle life? Where I am?
Those are two really good resources for you all to have.
Bid you all a Shae, this is the truth has
been spoken. Trey has been great to do this work
(56:20):
with you. I hope you build and I hope there's
a part two to this. There's so much more to
talk about.
Speaker 1 (56:23):
Yeah, because if nothing else, you know, I would definitely
love to maybe have a follow up with this with
our brother Yolo, who was supposed to join us today
but unfortunately he couldn't because of a last minted family emergency.
And Yolo still want to speak your name and still
want to make a public record that we are holding
you in the light in this hour and look forward
(56:46):
to you being a future guest on the show. And
then Trey let people know where they can find you
if you want to be found.
Speaker 2 (56:54):
Yes, yes, Instagram tra c seventeen. I need to I
need to start prepping myself for Blue Sky as well.
Speaker 4 (57:03):
But I don't have a new name yet.
Speaker 2 (57:05):
But it's the same thing on threads as trace C
seventeen on Instagram c R e y C seventeen.
Speaker 1 (57:12):
Excellent, excellent, Thanks me. Okay, so that was another episode
of Hella Black, Hello Queer, Hello Christian. Thank you all
so much for tuning in today. We greatly appreciate it.
I greatly appreciate it. Special shout out to iHeart. This
is an iHeart radio podcast. We do want to thank
(57:33):
I Heart for keeping the lights on and for keeping
the building fund full. A man Praise God. If you
enjoy today's show, please like, please comment, please subscribe to
Hell of Black, Hella Queer, Hello Christian. Wherever you do,
listen to your favorite podcast, and also share, Tell a friend,
(57:54):
to tell a friend, to tell a friend. We're definitely
looking to build and expand this thing and get the
message out into the world. So until the next time,
be kind to yourself so that you can be kind
to others.
Speaker 3 (58:07):
Have a good one.
Hello, and welcome to the first episode of Hella Black,
Hello Queer, Hello Christian. My name is Joseph Fries, and
I am the host and creator of this podcast. While
you all are hearing this episode in June of twenty
twenty five, this episode was actually recorded in November of
(00:23):
twenty twenty four, and the reason why I'm sharing that
is because you may hear some time references that may
not necessarily line up. Just wanted to share that with
you for clarity before this episode began, before you started
listening to the episode. Once again, thank you so much
for deciding to take this journey with me. I'm looking
(00:43):
forward to the ride together. Please like these comments, Please share,
please subscribe, reach out to let us know how you
like the episode, and please enjoy. Welcome to another episode
(01:09):
of Hella Black, Hella Queer, Hello Christian. I am your host,
Joseph Freese pronounced are they them? This is a fully
fully queer, fully human, fully divine podcast around sexuality, culture, spirituality,
and other fresh fied niggas ship I feel like talking
about with my dope ass friends, and I am so
(01:30):
glad to have some great brothers in the chat with
me today for a really important conversation. So I am
going to begin to introduce them and then we'll have
an icebreaker and we can get into this conversation, which
I feel is really important and vital. So we are
going to start with my friend, our fons so. Trey
(01:53):
Campbell a native of Hyattsville, Maryland, who serves as a
board member for the Shalem Institute for Spiritual Information with
This is a contemplative organization that seeks to help those
who are seeking deeper exploration of their spirituality. Trey is
a proud graduate of Howard University with a Bachelor's of
Science degree in psychology and also holds a Master of
(02:16):
Divinity from the Samuel DeWitt Proctor School of Theology at
Virginia Union. Trey is also a photographer who specializes in
capturing life as it is. Furthermore, he has an unwavering
commitment to justice and creating safe spaces that are inclusive
for all voices. Thank you for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Trade grateful to be here, Grateful to be here, and
my friend, I'm looking forward to the conversation.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, so that was like the official bio, but not
yet twenty but close to twenty years. Me and Trey
have known each other through the Mecca, through the Cashstone
of Negro education, the Beyonce of HBCUs Howard University. And
(03:05):
not only are we Bison, but we came through as
Chapel assistance of the illustrious Rank in Chapel where our
dean was the one and only Reverend, Doctor Bernard L. Richardson.
And Trey has just been a friend. And when I
got this opportunity, I knew that Trade was one of
the folks that I was going to have to have
(03:28):
on this podcast. Okay, and then next I am going
to introduce Dane Ray is a licensed clinical professional counselor
with over twenty three years of expertise dedicated to four
string healing, resilience and empowerment across diverse communities. Dane currently
is a trailblazer who uses internal family systems in the
(03:50):
treatment setting. With roots grounded in both Nigerian and Geechee heritage,
Dane invities a dynamic blend of cultural knowledge, compassion and
profess national excellence. Dane brings a profile commitment to breaking
down barriers and healthcare for marginalized communities, but particularly for
LGBTQIA plus and gender diverse individuals as a recognized voice
(04:13):
in public health. They have partnered with Washington DC's HOSTA Division,
which is where I met Dane back in twenty sixteen
when we were health impact specialists, and Dane has also
conducted impactful research focused on the gaps in healthcare their
communication that affect trans and gender expansive people. Dane's work
has helped shape inclusive clinical practices and educational programs, illuminating
(04:38):
the urgent need for a patient center approach in gender
affirming care. Through DNA Consulting Services LLC, Dane has transformed
industry standards, leading initiatives that provide cutting edge training, mentorship,
and cultural responses strategies to therapists, educators, and healthcare professionals nationwide,
their consentations and power over organization to create inclusive environments
(05:01):
that prioritize mental wellness and social equity. Thane's leadership extends globally,
delivering workshops and speaking engagements that resonate with audiences across
the healthcare, corporate and cultural sectors. Th ain't thank you
so very much for joining us today.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Absolutely, I'm glad to be a part.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
YEP and once again we're glad to hear you and
once again, thank you so much for joining. And then
you know, Russian a little bit today is given a
little bit madic Monday vibe, but we hear and now
we're going to move into the ice breaker, and today's
icebreaker question is going to be what is the first
(05:45):
celebrity death that really impacted you and did it have
something to do with substance use and abuse? And I
do have to say that the first big death to
really impact that that kind of like really shook me
to my core. Thursday, June twenty fifth, two thousand and nine,
(06:10):
had just the summer was just starting. I was back
in New York after having completed my first year of
Howard and I was in Brooklyn, New York, in the
basement of the rd Lord Project, which is a local
LGBT organization that I worked at, and me and my
sister e Jarifs were getting to and we're getting things
(06:31):
together for the Pride weekend that year, and we start
to get notifications that the King of Pop, Michael Jackson
had died. E Jerriss said, We're gonna wait until the
Associated Press says something, because the tablawyers had been killing
(06:55):
MJ all for years at this point, right, and suring enough,
I think maybe about it took about an hour, and
the associated press did indeed report that, you know, Michael
had passed. And then as we would come, you know,
(07:16):
to find out more and more details about his death,
we would find out that it actually did include drugs
and it did include an addiction to prescription medication. So
that was the first death that really impacted me. And
then you know, Trey, you can go in and you
(07:37):
can provide you and answer that question all right.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Once again, Trey pronounced he him, So of course I
think that was the same for me.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
So I would first say that Michael death because I
remember too very vibili. I think I was walking into
vacation Bible school, and of course I think I would
I guess twenty one at the time, so I think
I was teaching. But I remember just being stunned because
one of the first movies I ever saw was Jackson five, right,
(08:09):
and being put on to Michael, uh was something that
was huge for me. But if I were to say
to go with a different answer, I think I would
say the death of Nipsey.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
I knew you was going to say Marathon.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
And particularly I think with Michael there was that distance
a little bit. With Nipsey, that was someone a couple
of years older than me, right uh and so, and
I had been resonating with the new album three Lap,
listening to it every day up to that moment, and
I just remember the way like it kind of shook me, like,
oh wow, like this is you know, it just gave
(08:52):
this fragileness to life. And then I think, while not
directly related to draw, I'm sure in some way it's murderer.
I think that there's something there with that, right, so
even and not there's the intersection of mental health, drugs
(09:14):
sticks of that nature too. So I would say that
that was the first death that really kind of like
rocks in that way.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
And then I had known of Nipsy and then kind
of and then it was the same thing with Pack
and Biggie. I got more into their work posthumously that
I did when they were actually alive. But the thing that,
you know, as we continue to remember Nipsey, I think
(09:42):
the thing that really got me about Nipsy is that
me and Nipsy actually were the same age, so like
so like we were both born in eighty five. My
birthday is in July. His birthday is in August, so like, yeah,
(10:03):
so when I kind of found out more about it,
it was like, ooh, this is a little bit too
close to me. So so that was just so that
was even how you know, no it may not have
been you know, he would you know, in addiction, but
still kind of like that street trade. So like you
were just kind of alluding to we can still kind
(10:24):
of like even trace it to you know, black men
and our you know, our struggles, you know, with with
suction issues and the impact of such issues on our
community and really just the various ways that we try
to survive and like find community and that aren't always
(10:44):
the most productive. So man, thank you for that sharing trade.
So Dame going to ask you to come in, give
your pronouns, and then the first big celebrity death that
impacted you.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Absolutely absolutely delighted to be in the space. Dane Ray
is my professional name. If you are to culturally affirm me,
you can use my given name of the diaspora, which
is Old Malari. So either Olu or Oluwada Malari or
Dane is fine. Those are the pronouns that I use.
I don't use any gender or gender adjacent pronouns. And
(11:21):
as far as the celebrity death of Joseph, you definitely
took my MJ had I remember that day I had
to take off from work. I was stunned. I was
in absolute freeze mode. I couldn't really process, couldn't accept
you think about the way that you know MJ's legacy
transitted generations. But the person that I will choose, I'll
say Prince, and I'll say Prince for the simple fact
(11:41):
that I don't think a lot of people paid a
lot of attention to Fentanohl, and I think that people
are paying a lot more attention to fentanyl nowadays, and
I think it is important to continue to call attention
to fentanyl and its impact. Even though it was an accident,
it's deemed an accidental reduced or over prescription that definitely
(12:03):
impacted me for sure. Even even going back to Minnesota,
my wife is actually from Minnesota, and so we had
a chance to go to where they pay homage to Princess,
so they reset the entire the entire estate on a
weekly basis. I think just because there's so much that
people bring from all over the world internationally, and so
just to feel it's palpable the legacy, the impact of that,
(12:26):
of that loss and that how he's changed planes now.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah, definitely, and I still want to get out to
his estate to visit is. I think it's one of
those if you're a love of music, particularly if you're
a love of black music like I am. I do
think that it's one of those pilgrimage, that pilgrimages that
(12:50):
you have to make. And you know, definitely Prince was
kind of like an impact for me as well, kind
of like in those ways, and it was just one
of those things where like you knew one day eventually
he was gonna die, but you just kind of weren't
prepared for Prince to die. And then even as we
(13:14):
talk about Michael Jackson and as we talk about Prince,
I would be remiss, even though she is not a
black man, I would be remiss if we did not
lift up Nippy. I would be remiss if we did
not remember Whitney Elizabeth Houston, who also right passed away,
(13:35):
you know, from her struggles with addiction, and I bring
her up like in the context of Michael Jackson and
Prince because for me, as someone who was born in
eighty five, just really kind of dealing with how the
three big black megastars of that time period are now
(13:57):
all dead. And I think Michael was the only one
that lived to see fifty because Whitney died at forty eight,
and if Prince did live, like live to see fifty,
he was like in his early fifties. So well, thank
(14:19):
you all for answering that question. I do think that
right now will be a good time to go tip
up that church finger, go pay the water bill. So
we are going to take a break and after these
messages we will be right back. Welcome back to Hella Black,
(15:03):
Heller Queer. Hello Christian. Once again, I am your host,
Joseph pronouns are they them? And this is a fully black,
fully queer, fully human, fully divine podcast around sexuality, spirituality, culture,
and other fresh fried nigga shit that I feel like
talking about with my dope ass friends. And once again,
I am so glad to have my dope ass friends
(15:26):
Trey and Dane here with me today to lead us
in this conversation which I feel is really important. And
then it is somewhat kism that we're having this conversation
today because just me nerding out as a pop culture person.
This is also the thirty second anniversary of Spike Lee's
(15:48):
epic biopic Malcolm X being released into theater Starr and
Denzel Washington. So to be here, as black men across
our diverse experiences, to be having this conversation on this
day just seems to make it even more special and
healthy to confirm even more how important it is. So
(16:11):
this conversation was inspired back in September. From back in September. September,
the fifth actually of this year, we lost tragically rapper
rich Homie Kwan. Rich Homie Kwan at the time of
(16:35):
his death was thirty four years old. He was about
a month out from his thirty fifth birthday, And like
too many of our young brothers, particularly you know, within
the hip hop genre, especially within the recent years, because
(16:56):
like it seems like growing up in the nineties, we
seemed to lose a lot of our hip hop artists
to gun violence. But like it since let's say, like
the beginning of the aught, So from twenty ten on,
it just seems like we've been losing so many of
our young black men either to suicide or to an
(17:17):
accidental overdose. And with rich Hony Kwant. Unfortunately he was
one of those that we lost to an accidental overdose.
And then the day after we heard the news of
rich Horny Kwan's death was the third anniversary of the
(17:39):
death of Michael K. Williams, so the famous actor from
The Wire. Many remember him as Omar For me as
a young black gay person coming up in the early
two thousands, he was definitely a groundbreaking in landmark role
for me. And the September the sixth of this year,
so the day after rich horn We Kwan was the
third and versary of his passing, we also lost him
(18:03):
to to accidental overdose. And then as we were talking
about in the Icebreaker, it got me to thinking about
Michael and Prince and how we lost them to accidental
overdoses in regards to prescription medication. And it's kind of like,
I really feel like we don't talk about the ways
that Michael and Prince died in the ways that we
(18:25):
talk about some other people, but they did die as
a as a result of addiction. And then of course
I thought about d m X, who we also lost
around that time, also another young another black man who
we lost to addiction, and substance use and abuse in
regards to his struggles with drugs and alcohol. And I
(18:49):
just started to see a thread, and I saw a
thread that I really felt like needed to be addressed
through the platform that I've been given with Hella Black, Hello, queer,
Hello Christian. These all the type of conversations that I
want to have, and I don't think that we're having
them enough. And as I've shared been able to share
(19:09):
with Trey, was able to share with my comrade Yolo Robinson,
who hedged the Beam organization out in California, whenever we
have these conversations around black men and wellness, we have
them in these silos where it feels like, since he had,
black men kind of get the main stage for to
(19:31):
have these conversations, and then black gay and bisexual man
we kind of get the side room. And then black
men of trans experience have to find their own spaces
even outside of that, to have like these conversations in
like these silence. And I just really wanted something today
where black men across the gender spectrum, were cross across
(19:55):
the sexuality spectrum, could get together, even if just for
a couple of minutes, uh, just to break bread together
and to see if we can't begin to find some
solutions to this problem. What were you all taught and
what kind of like what was kind of like that
narrative of origin that you remember receiving as far as
(20:20):
black men and substanceutes.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
That's a that's a good question and always, uh, it's
always I think good to be able to sit back
and trace the the origin stories and narratives of how
something came into or how an idea or a concept
kind of came into your mind.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
And and I say I did concept thinking about like
I think I grow up during the time of what
dare and you know, like moms against drink with it,
drunk driving, right, and and so everything to me kind
of came from this perspective of like fear right and
back then you know, we're just talking about cigarettes primaily,
(21:04):
right and then and then everything else was just like
the real boogieman.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
Right, like you're not.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
You know, you're not even really kind of discussing all
the other quote unquote right like drugs and stuff.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
But like and we was the gateway drug, yes exactly,
and and and and and the moment you took a
puffet it was it was just a matter of time
before you were strung out on skied.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Row exactly exactly right. And so there's this first kind of.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Like I think almost like uh in position of like
fear that's placed on you by those who are teaching you.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
And I think that like that was like the initial
kind of framing for me, just kind of seeing everything too,
like the drug programs are just staying away. But I
think as I and older, I've begin to kind of
see the faultiness and like those original teachings right, like
(22:05):
it was there was a much more expansive conversation we
probably could have been having around just the understanding of
like our relationship with each of those why people may
choose to participate right or to to.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
Two, you know, why why there may be even addiction?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Right, Like we weren't necessarily kind of like having those
like wider conversations. It was just stay away from those things,
right and so but nobody's talking to you about when
you get older on stress that comes from living in
this world, right uh. And so I think that like
that was the first sort of like rooting grounding. It
kind of came from those like drug programs.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Or like even okay, you don't want us to, but
what all the what are the alternatives, what are the mindfulness?
Absolutely like, what other outing practices that we can use?
And then even as you were sharing, it's kind of
like what we were taught about drugs. We were also
taught about sets, keep your legs closed and just don't
(23:12):
do it until you get married. Yeah, yeah, and you
know and then you know, I too, am a dare graduate.
THEA had to keep a kid off drugs. There, to
keep a kid off dope, there to give a kid
some help, there, to give a kid some hope. Yet
we stood and we sang that in sixth grade. And
you know, I remember growing up and seeing that this
(23:35):
is your brain on drugs commercial and I believed that shit.
I bought it hook line and sinker to where you
don't if it looked like you were going to if
it looked like you were going to light up, I
got out and I left because it was like, no,
I have to leave because if I get caught in it,
(23:56):
it's just gonna be this downward spiral mitchet, which statistically
has been proven to like not necessarily be true as
far as the whole conversation around marijuana being quote unquote
a gateway drug. But you know, thank you for sharing Trey,
and now Dane, we would love for you to come
(24:16):
in and just share, like what was your origin story
around what you were taught around black men and substance
use and or abuse.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
So that's a that's a really insightful question and my
answer is nuanced. So as we talk about like black narratives,
I think black narratives are nuanced. So there is, you know,
one narrative around what I was told you how I
was reared and raised. So I was raised by pretty
(24:47):
moderate to conservative parents. I was also raised under the
banner of the Christian faith. My parents are deeply involved
in the church. My dad, as a church leader, had
his own church, and I myself, at the age of nineteen,
got fully licensed in the African Methodist Episcopal Church. So
we talked about narratives like there's like this polity that
(25:10):
I had to follow. There's you know, the performative aspect
in black hierarchy that you have to follow. So there's
that narrative. But then there's also the narrative of lived experience.
You know, I have a mom from Baltimore, Maryland, I
have a dad from North Philadelphia and alcohol was probably
the least of my family substance worries. And as as
(25:31):
you know, I had a chance to see a lot
that was that was real. So there was also the
narrative of of what I was shown. There was a
narrative of what I watched. There was the narrative of
behavior and how that encoded into my psyche of how
to navigate the world, what to distance myself from, what
was respectable, what wasn't and so my I guess my
(25:55):
initiation though as my first contact around and with substances
was actually ceremonial with a family member. I don't know
if I was double digits, but it was with Manishevits
and it was done to help me realize how some
spaces were kept with my forbearers, and so I was
(26:18):
able to be included in those spaces where they share
that and so to me, a lot of it was normalized.
And I don't know if this is weird or not,
but I think part of my exposure around substances was
also so that as I got older, I wouldn't be
I wanted to succumb to some substances. I would know
my limits and i'd be able to have some level
(26:40):
of exposure in a controlled environment. So that may not
be the typical experience, but that was definitely my experience
of my early on experiences around alcohol and other drugs
and substances learning about them. So there's one what I
was told and there's also what I learned through behavior
around my communities.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Thank you so much for sharing that, Dan, And even
as you were sharing your experience, it kind of made
me think of kind of like even the traditions in
my family, because my grandmother, May she rest in peace,
she definitely had that tradition with the babies in the
family where she would kind of like poor a little
(27:19):
bit of beer on like onto like her finger, and
then she would like give it to the baby once
they once they got to a certain age, and it
was kind of like an unofficial christening because she said, oh,
just a little bit won't hurt. They need to get
just a little bit. And I actually remember that there
was actually some tension with her and one of my
(27:42):
aunts who married into the family, because when my cousin
was born, this aunt was just very adamant around the
fact that you know, she did not want to start
that with her child and also this aren't her father
had his own history read with alcohol, so she she
(28:02):
really did not want to introduce that to the child,
considering life the hereditary history of substance in the family.
And then even when you brought up Man of Schevins,
of course I thought about communion Sunday and how you know,
people say, ain't nothing wrong with little wine on the
first Sunday because we're remembering the blood. So but but
(28:25):
once again, and I'm probably gonna say this a thousand times,
but each time, each time, I truly do mean it.
Thank you all for your answers, and thank you all
for your sharing. So now that we have talked about
our origin stories and where they started, how would you
say your understanding and your relationship of substance substance use
(28:50):
has changed.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
After becoming fully licensed, I've done some extensive and additional
training to support people UH in a cultural appropriate and
culturally affirmative way, and then culturally from the context that
is safe, that allows them to ground, that allows them
to heal, to make contact with the parts of them
that they would not typically be able to make contact with.
(29:13):
So I walk this very intentional line of holding my
ethics in one hand and holding my communities in the
other and making sure we get healed the right way
that's not in an exclusionary or pathological way. So yeah,
I've had specifically training and champion the use of plant
assisted therapy plant like medicines that would include like ketamine, mbma,
(29:37):
psilocybin in order in a treatment setting or in a
therapeutic setting that is not necessarily just with some spiritual advisor,
but also with someone who knows how to really temper
the set in the setting and knows how to help
you with integration after the experience. So even though we
understand all of the public health outcomes and disparities, I
(30:00):
also understand alchemy'all also understand cultural authenticity, and it is
lost on a lot of people and a lot of
people's lineages of how they used to heal, how they
are able to heal, And so I am a strong
proponent of helping people find and navigate that line for
them of being able to access more holistic healing that
may or may not include plant medicine. But I'm definitely
(30:23):
a proponent for helping people access healing in a way
they typically weren't able to.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Yeah, that thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Dang for that.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
I think that that that's a good way for me.
I think in the way that I've been kind of
framing the conversation at least in my head, and I'm
glad that we're able to have this together. I think
a lot of times when we look at it, we
come to this conversation from a perspective like that pathologizes it, right.
But I love this idea of like the support the assists,
(30:51):
like these are different words healing, paying attention to the
holistic picture here, right, Like I think when we do
to pathologizing, often we're looking at a person and now
we're kind of placing them in this space of judgment, right,
and as if they're separate from us, rather than this
interconnection of understanding that particularly us as as black people
(31:14):
having a unique experience in this world, right, and how
some of the what we're talking about is a result
of being in this society, in this space, in this
country and this nation, in this this this world, making right,
this nation making that we live under. My thought now,
(31:35):
I think in recent years is just like, okay, so
where what am I doing to help craft curate spaces
that are the opposite of that to kind of help
with what's under under lying, right that that that deep
like internal conversation that we're not having the interiority of
our lives, that we're not having rather than just what's
(31:57):
happening as a result of us living our existential sort
of like way in this this this world, right, Like
what does it look like to help people live? And
so I think like that's the way that I'm kind
of coming to the conversation more and more because I
think there's plenty of people that can do research that can
give us the stats and all these you know, wonderful things,
(32:20):
but I do do now come to the conversation more in.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
What does healing look like for you?
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Right?
Speaker 4 (32:29):
Like what does it do?
Speaker 2 (32:31):
What does it look like for us to see people
as fool people and not just oh, this is the addict, right,
this is the person's alcohol use disorder, this is substance use, right,
Like you become these labels, but you're not becoming a
full person with a full story that needs to be
heard as well. And so I think like that's the
perspective I am sort of seeing around everything now. Then
(32:55):
that fear uh sort of story that was kind of
put into me.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
So still thank you, and thank you both because I
you come, you came at it from different angles, and
you both gave like unique answers to that question. But
I still see that thread of really where you both
have been doing the work two destigmatized and to take
(33:26):
the fear out of the conversation, because the fear mongering
has not been a useful tactic. It has not stopped
people from in engaging in substance use and abuse. And
also particularly with with what you shared Dane Jess, because
(33:49):
someone does engage substances or what we consider to be substnesses,
does not necessarily mean that they're an added, does not
necessarily mean that they're bad, does not necessarily mean that
they are in a place where they're not caring for themselves.
And and Dan, I really appreciated what you shared as
(34:12):
far as you know, you know, when it comes to
plant based medicine, which is still a controversial thing for
some people, but I know for a lot of people
it actually is a doorway that aids them in their
spiritual enlightenment. It actually is a doorway that helps them
deal with their anxiety and with their depression and way
(34:35):
that traditional Western medicine does not. And it is something
you know, like with those things like shrews actually do
help people when they're administered, you know, by trained professionals,
and when people experience them in community and they're just
not kind of like locked away in a room isolated
(34:58):
using these substances without you know, anyone there to kind
of like check in on them. And and I have
to share, like my experience has been a lot like cures,
really disavowing the fear and learning to you know, see
(35:20):
people as people and not just seeing them, you know,
for whatever struggle they're in. When we talk about our
origin stories as far as Black men and substance use
and abuse, we also have to look at the ways that,
particularly those of us who came up in the eighties
(35:40):
or even post eighties, the way that this conversation has
been used to villainize black men, particularly like those young
black men that got caught up in the drug trade
by selling drugs, by by by selling illicit street drugs,
and how these young black men we allow society to
(36:03):
tell us that they were monsters instead of our brothers,
instead of our sons, instead of our cousins, like you know,
they were just kind of like these evil perpetrators that
were just roaming the earth looking to destroy community. When
that's not even the whole conversation either, Right, So if
(36:24):
you all could speak a little bit to that, but
then also from yours, from you all's perspectives, address how
you all think the healthcare system and society overall can
do better to serve Black men in regard to this issue.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
So healthcare before like it's almost to the point of,
you know, throw throw the whole thing away, like it's
it's glitching. It's glitching, and it's it's given greed, it's
giving ignorance. In a perfect world, we would hear the
(37:05):
voice of all black men, no matter what their state
or stature is, whether you're incarcerated or experienced incarceration, whether
you are with a.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Family or not.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
We'll be able to hear the voice, the diversity of
the black male voice. And I think hearing the voice
would increase visibility, and visibility would increase access to us
seeing each other and needs. I think that would be
the first thing that could look like community based organizations
capturing needs better through focused groups. It could look like
(37:43):
virtual support and organizing. It also could look like us
funding our own equity and that from a grassroots perspective,
I know that a lot of that work was done
through the Black Panther Party to really take a lot
of autonomy and age and see with the health direction.
And I think that not from a separatist lens, but
(38:06):
from our ownership lens, that there are a lot of
things that we need and if we don't feel that
the external world can help, we have to start in
our internal communities by first naming the issues. And I
don't think that the issues can be addressed in healthcare
unless people are able to kind of sit with themselves,
recognize themselves. So without self awareness, I don't think that
(38:26):
those needs can be articulated. A lot of folks have,
especially black men, have the experience of you know, pain,
being shunned, you knowing you to tell it like you
have to sit on it, you have to take it
on the chin. And I think that once that that changes,
once we are able to kind of acknowledge and accept
(38:48):
and centralize the pain of black men, the full experience,
the full range of experience of black men, will be
able to hold them better in healthcare because along with
you know, black men having pain, black men also have joy.
But how on Earth. Are we going to express joy
and appreciation and resilience if we are, we don't have
a space to hold our pain, we don't have a
(39:10):
space to be well. And so I don't think that
the healthcare system will be able to do that until
they're able to hear voice. And I think that the
system that we have now is designed to expect explicitly
not hear the black male voice that that even goes
to me. Have you ever had a prescription that wasn't
available and that's just because of the zip code you
were in? Like it's that detail? Is that strategic?
Speaker 4 (39:32):
Yeah, I'm I'm I'm in agreement. I think that.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Even as I'm hearing our conversation now, it's like there's
this abstract way that we kind of like approach healthcare, right,
Like we hear about the healthcare system, but what does
it all Like, what's the infrastructure of it? Like, what
does it all entail? Things of that nature, right, And
I think that we aren't creating enough listening spaces in
(40:00):
circles for us as as black men to really have
some some some serious conversations about it. You know, I
think I said a lot of conversations on I'm thinking
social media, right, Uh, the the app that we're all
now fleeing from with with X, right that like with
with like the type of conversations that you have on there.
(40:22):
You don't even see much conversations about this, right, Like,
it doesn't seem like it is a priority, even though
it is like illuminous kind of like cloud over our lives,
right because some of us don't think about it until
a moment happens, right. But but beyond that, it is
about us once again, really listening to those who are
(40:45):
like expanding the conversation and really listening to those who
are having who do want to have these conversations, right.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
And I do think that once.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Again, you know, it's everything that's kind of like tracks
back to this narrative of like what does it look
like to be a man and.
Speaker 4 (41:04):
Take care of myself?
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Right, and those conversations just kind of you know, the
nuance and those conversations need to kind of happen too,
is that from our own end we need to be
kind of helping. Once again, I think there was a
good word to de stigmatize, stigmatize what this conversation looks like, right,
Like what does it need to to care for ourselves,
(41:27):
to care for our health, and then how do we
go about doing organizing work of.
Speaker 4 (41:34):
Either you know, of.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Course providing a voice to what the particular systems are.
But if the systems continue to be slow to put
back into flesh, right if for using you know, biblical language,
how do we put into flesh the practices that are
needed to to help provide.
Speaker 4 (41:56):
For the immediate needs of our people? Right? And I
think that like that is.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Where I think, like over these these next four years
and beyond that, right, it's that we're gonna have to
have a lot of conversation about what do we need
to do.
Speaker 4 (42:15):
Together as a community to watch out for one another.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
So it's funny that you would say the next four years,
because I mean, yes, it's bigger than the next four years,
but also we got to get through these next four years.
And you know, and if we're talking about black men,
I don't want to get too deep into it, but
I'm gonna get into it. The Democratic Party owes black
(42:42):
men in apology. There's a lot of people that owe
black men in apology because there was a lot of
rhetoric that was put out around black men that at
the end of the day, black men statistically disproved, and
I just really don't see that black men were really
given a fair shake in regards to that. And Dan,
(43:05):
I even think I can use this as a way
to reintroduce the first part of the question and present
it in a little bit of a cleaner way, because really,
so the question that I'm trying to ask is, in
this conversation, how do we show more care to those
(43:27):
young black men who are also caught up in this
substance abuse conversation, but they're caught up in it from
the conversation of being the supplier of the drugs. So
how so those who are drug dealers, those who are
street fumplases, how do we address the issue but still
(43:47):
see these people as people as well, and not just
the super predators that they've been characterized as. So hopefully
that's a that's a clear representation of it.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Thank you for the clarity I say this. It's not
it's not a monolith, but I will say the there's
a higher propensity of people to accept change if there
is a decreased sense of liability. So what do I
mean if somebody is a pusher and you can tell
them they could do something different with those same skill
sets without the liability and the interruption of livelihood, then
(44:21):
you know that's going to benefit them. And I think
that a lot of men don't have the person who
could speak the language to make that clear. And the
steps to move as a pharmacist are you're good in chemistry,
you know how to mix this and make that, and
people can't tell that is a skill set. How do
you leverage the skill set and work? When I say leverage,
I mean like capitalized, right, because you have to operate
(44:44):
within the system that you're in, and so really making
that clear, I think that's actually something that Nipsey did
really will really well. He learned how to leverage the
voice in an authentic way within a system that wasn't
necessarily built or desig for him, and he really made
an impact without permission. And I think if you could
tell more people who are on that end of the
(45:07):
relationship of substance kind of transmission between and in the community,
is you show them that pathway, you're able to kind
of help them achieve that self determination. I don't think
you will get as much pushed back when you're able
to make that pathway clear.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
Yeah, I think for me, it's it's a conversation of
like learning to be human with all human parts.
Speaker 4 (45:32):
That makes sense, right, Like that, I.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
As you said, once again, we kind of create these
images of people, right, the super predator, not that becomes
somebody I fear rather than somebody I could actually be
in conversation with. Right, it becomes this is the person
that is the problem for everything that's taking place in society, right,
taking place in our communities. And what we have now
(45:56):
done is we have stripped ourselves from any type of
relationship with that person.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Right.
Speaker 4 (46:01):
And I think what.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
I've seen over time, you know that like things can think,
things have shifted times where like at one point, like
Grandma was like respected, right.
Speaker 4 (46:11):
You did it, you know you did you did it.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
You didn't cross Grandma's house or anybody's grandma's house of
that nature, right, But like there was still that sense
of like connection there. But I think now there are
times where it's like, oh, it doesn't matter, I'm just
I'm just coming for blood or right like or or
I don't care what's what's who's affected by this?
Speaker 4 (46:31):
Right?
Speaker 2 (46:31):
Like, there seems to be like even that sense of
level of like connection I think some of that. While
you can have the conversation about, you know, the the
drugs that are coming in and and and and people
dealing with I think there also has to be a
conversation of like on our on on on.
Speaker 4 (46:47):
The other side of things too.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
It's like how relationships have stopped happening over time because
it's like you start making money, you start going to
the other levels. It's like, all right, well I got
out and I and I'm just kind of like seeing that, man,
what does it look like if we just started having
oddest conversations with one another and being human with one
another and hearing people right? And maybe that's just my
(47:10):
big thing I think I've been on recently.
Speaker 4 (47:12):
It's just like being president enough to listen and see
what's what's what's calling, allowing the voice of those that
we know that we're uncomfortable with, those that have taken
paths that have deemed been harmful to to to our communities,
but also recognize that the first person that they are hurting.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Is themselves as well, right, And how do you help
people see that so they.
Speaker 4 (47:35):
Can also kind of become free from that?
Speaker 2 (47:40):
And maybe that's why I'm always kind of been on this,
this calling right, this is sign of this. The spiritual
aspect of it is paying attention to like what are
we doing to help change what's happening in that internal
conversation that can be that shift maybe from hey, you're
(48:03):
doing it this way, but I'm curious about what happens
if you try to take those energies and put it
into the world this way.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Yep, thank you so much for that. And it's kind
of like you hate to sound like the old head.
That's just like, man, things worn't the way they used
to be back when out but in a very real way,
like they're not though, right, and in a very real
way like we all like losing recipes and even you know,
(48:33):
as as you were sharing about how we need to
have conversation with each other and even kind of like
the piece you brought up earlier around how like these
conversations aren't happening on like these social media apps that
weren't created for conversation because you can't have conversation in
one hundred and forty characters or less, right, And then
(48:54):
I'm even thinking about how, you know, we all walk
around and we're all just in our phones, we're all
face down in our phones or even you know, thinking
about you know how I remember growing up in a
time where if you were you could go on public
(49:15):
transportation and you would see people reading like actual physical media,
reading like an actual copy of a book or an
actual physical copy of a magazine. And now it's just
like we're all like we're all connected and disconnected at
the same time. Thank you all once again for this conversation.
(49:40):
Of course, we were not going to solve anything in
fifty two minutes and thirteen seconds, but at I do
at least think we've started something and we'll be able
to put this out as a spark, just throwing one
pebble into a pond and hoping that it makes ways.
(50:00):
So hope you all enjoyed this conversation. Before we have
the better addiction and wrap up the show, we're gonna
take another break. We'll be right back after these messages. Okay, everybody,
(50:26):
once again, welcome back to Hella Black, Hella Queer. Hello Christian,
and we have already come to the end of another show.
Once again, I want to thank my guest Trey Campbell
and Dane Ray for joining us today, for blessing us
with your insights definitely gave people a lot to think about,
just some a good meal to feast on. That's what
(50:49):
I'm leaving here feeling like today. I just really feel
like it was a great conversation. And if and if
you're listening and you're on your journey with substance use
and abuse, don't even have to be a black man,
but definitely do want to give a special appeal to
our brothers. Of course, the spectrum you can change, there
(51:15):
is life after this. There are people in community that
want to help you, and I hope that you can
find that. So as we are ending the show, I'm
just going to bring it in my guests one last time,
just to share any parting words and let folks know
where they can find you on social media, what you
(51:35):
have coming up next, if anything, because I know sometimes
that can be an anxiety and do some questions. So
if you don't necessarily have anything coming up, that's okay too,
but let people know where they can find you further
connect with you, and just any parting words that you
would like to share. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
Absolutely, just grateful to be able to be in this conversation. Also,
just want to I just take a special note and
just say I'm proud of you. I am a Joseph
and and you allowing the world to be able to
hear your voice, to hear your.
Speaker 4 (52:08):
Thoughts that I think are important and special for this
world to hear.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
So grateful that you are creating this, this space that
I think expands the conversation. And and certainly just in
particularity with this conversation, I'm just just really.
Speaker 4 (52:29):
Mindful of all of us. Just learn to love each
other a little bit better, right, you know, you try to.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
I try to think of deeper things in times, but
sometimes it all comes down to being able to love,
and not in a sentimental way, but in a way
that Bell Hooks would tell us.
Speaker 4 (52:47):
That love is a verb, love is as love does,
and putting flesh on that. And so.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
I just just kind of want to leave in that
and in that way, and and once again just grateful
to be in conversation and also with you as.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
Well, Dan grayful to have you, Trey, and thank you
because here you're gonna have to learn to love each other,
and not in that homemark way. We're gonna have to love,
learn to love each other in ways where we put
ourselves on the line. For each other. If we don't
(53:25):
ain't gonna be a week. But Dane, once again, thank
you so much for joining today. Thank you so much
for your expertise and for your caring and for the
work that you do around this topic even after the
recording will stop on this show, and just anything you
want to share, we'd be more than grateful to receive it.
Speaker 3 (53:48):
Absolutely. Thank you so much, Justin for inviting me. I
had no idea when we were at Houstin that you
will be presenting this level of gift to the world,
something that the world is so deeply thirsty for. So
I'm sitting in deep appreciation. As far as final words,
(54:09):
I just want to share that if you haven't found
a type of a progressing your healing journey, I would
strongly suggest you look up internal family systems. There is
a YouTube video by doctor Tory Olds. She's a white woman,
and she articulates what IFS is about pretty well if
(54:32):
you would like to know more. It is a way
that you can actually start working with yourself and making
contact with the parts of yourself that you may be
escaping from that you may be dissociating from parts of
you that are painful hurt, feel vulnerable, unmet needs, fears.
It is a great way to be able to do that. So,
whether you have a family member who is struggling, share
(54:53):
the word and share this podcast with family and friends
so they can be seen within the words, so they
could be seeing within the message. But grounding and journaling
are really great ways. So if you can just journal
the part of you that feels uncomfortable, the part of
you that feels like it is struggling with the pain
(55:14):
of living, right out with that part of you is
experiencing right out with that part of you feels heavy
about what is the fear or what is the need?
Start there, Start there, what is the fear and what
is the need of the part of you that feels
like it needs to escape or that is struggling with
the pain of living. That is my gift. You can
(55:35):
find me on the Blue Sky app. It's m x
d A N E R A Y the blue Sky app.
You could definitely add me there. I also have a
worksheet though, and so it kind of it consolidates some
of the things that some of the resources I just
told And if any of you are looking for more
of a concrete resource, there are virtual support groups. SAMSA
(55:58):
is a great one as a minority are people of
the global Majority specific support groups ANAMI is also another
great one for looking for what to do next? What
do I do? How do I handle life? Where I am?
Those are two really good resources for you all to have.
Bid you all a Shae, this is the truth has
been spoken. Trey has been great to do this work
(56:20):
with you. I hope you build and I hope there's
a part two to this. There's so much more to
talk about.
Speaker 1 (56:23):
Yeah, because if nothing else, you know, I would definitely
love to maybe have a follow up with this with
our brother Yolo, who was supposed to join us today
but unfortunately he couldn't because of a last minted family emergency.
And Yolo still want to speak your name and still
want to make a public record that we are holding
you in the light in this hour and look forward
(56:46):
to you being a future guest on the show. And
then Trey let people know where they can find you
if you want to be found.
Speaker 2 (56:54):
Yes, yes, Instagram tra c seventeen. I need to I
need to start prepping myself for Blue Sky as well.
Speaker 4 (57:03):
But I don't have a new name yet.
Speaker 2 (57:05):
But it's the same thing on threads as trace C
seventeen on Instagram c R e y C seventeen.
Speaker 1 (57:12):
Excellent, excellent, Thanks me. Okay, so that was another episode
of Hella Black, Hello Queer, Hello Christian. Thank you all
so much for tuning in today. We greatly appreciate it.
I greatly appreciate it. Special shout out to iHeart. This
is an iHeart radio podcast. We do want to thank
(57:33):
I Heart for keeping the lights on and for keeping
the building fund full. A man Praise God. If you
enjoy today's show, please like, please comment, please subscribe to
Hell of Black, Hella Queer, Hello Christian. Wherever you do,
listen to your favorite podcast, and also share, Tell a friend,
(57:54):
to tell a friend, to tell a friend. We're definitely
looking to build and expand this thing and get the
message out into the world. So until the next time,
be kind to yourself so that you can be kind
to others.
Speaker 3 (58:07):
Have a good one.
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