Death To Select Doors

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hella, Black Hella Queer. Hello Christian is a production of
iHeart podcast on the Outspoken Network, which seeks to amplify
LGBTQ voices in podcasting. Show me how good is going
to get today? God, dear Universe, you have permission to

(00:22):
amaze me today. I am a beautiful and blessed being
who deserves great things always. I love my life and
I am thankful for my life. I am safe and
I have everything I need. Something amazing is gonna happen
for me today. Show me how good is going to

(00:42):
get today. God, dear Universe, you have permission to amaze
me today. I am a beautiful and blessed being who
deserves great things always. I love my life and I
am thankful for my life. I am safe and I
have everything I need. Something amazing is happening for me today.

(01:05):
Show me how good is going to get today? God,
dear Universe, you have permission to amaze me today. I
am a beautiful and blessed being who deserves great things always.
I love my life and I am thankful for my life.
I am safe and I have everything I need. Something
amazing is happening for me today. Well, Hello, everybody, and

(01:44):
welcome to another episode of Hella Black, Hello Queer, Hello Christian,
a fully black, fully queer, fully human, fully divine podcast
around society, culture, and other fresh fried nigga shit I
feel like talking about with my dope ass friends. I
am your host, Joseph Freese, they them, and I am

(02:06):
so glad that you all have decided to join us
for another episode today. So do have some church announcements.
We're gonna start off with the two more celebratory church announcements,
and then we're gonna end kind of like with the
more a little bit more heavy church announcements. So it
is as the time of this recording, it is Tuesday,

(02:30):
July the twenty second, and this past Sunday. On July
the twentieth, your nigga turned forty years old. So I'm
really excited and I'm really proud about that. I think
I've said this a couple of times on previous episodes,
and while I am non binary, just for the sake

(02:51):
of this moment, I do need to like really specifically
like locate myself as a black gay man and really
kind of knowing that I am am a black gay
man who has lived to see forty years old in
a society and in a country that is not invested
in seeing black gay men live to see the age
of forty. So many of all four fathers did not

(03:14):
leave live to see the age of forty. I mean,
we have a whole generation of elders that were wiped
out before the age of forty due to the HIV
a's epidemic as well as the crack epidemic and the
war on drugs, and then even within my own life
kind of like post those epidemics, just seeing so many,

(03:36):
so many within my life and being connected to so
many that we lost before forty, before thirty five, in
some cases even before thirty. So I am just really
excited to be here in my auncty era. I feel
like I need to go out and buy myself a
new moonmu so I can set out on my porch
like Mary J. Blige and to come close video with

(03:58):
a red cup. And then I am not the only
one with a birthday because as of this recording, So
as of the time of this recording, and once again
this is Tuesday, July, the twenty second that we're recording
today is George Clinton's eighty fourth birthday. So doctor Funkenstein

(04:19):
the architecture of the Mothership. So if I have any
funk of tears that I'm listening to, you know, happy
birthday to doctor Funkenstein. And then of course we do
have to and kind of like with the heavier one,
Black America is in mourning. It really does feel like

(04:40):
because yesterday, on Monday, July the twenty first, we just
woke up to the very sudden, the very tragic news
that Malcolm Jamal Warner most of us know him, remember
him as Coo Huxtable on The Cosby Show, he tragically
passed away at the age of fifty four. And so

(05:03):
many people have said this before, you know, Asceo Huxtable,
Malcolm Jamal Warner was carefree, black boy joy before we
even had a turn for what that meant. And then
even for a lot of us, it really is bringing
up how it's kind of pouring salt into an old

(05:26):
wound because it is bringing up how so many of
us have had to say goodbye to and bury the
Huxtables and the Cosby Show because of Bill Cosby scandals.
And then to see, you know, this moment where kind
of like the first member of that cast, the first

(05:47):
Cosby kid has now passed away. You know, it's just
kind of it's just really touching something that is like
very sensitive. I can say that. So in this moment,
we're ask just gonna take a moment. And then I
also want to say Malcolm was actually so much more
than THEO, so much more than just an actor. He

(06:07):
was also known as a director, So kind of like
that iconic episode of The cos We Show where Vanessa
goes and has big fun with Di Wretched in Baltimore,
Malcolm was the one that actually directed that episode and
he was in his twenties. He was also known as
a musician and as a poet. Actually run on a

(06:28):
Grammy Dude to some of his musician work. Man, I'm
actually we're just gonna take a quick forty five seconds,
or rather, he passed away at fifty four, so we're
gonna do fifty four seconds where we're just gonna do
a moment of silence for him.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
Amen.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
And I say to you, brother Malcolm Jamal Warner, thank
you for all the joy that you gave us. You
definitely left way before we expected you to, but we
do pray that you're able to find peace on that
next plane. And we're definitely praying for you and for
your family. I do see two friends that are ready

(08:34):
to come in and join the conversation. If you all
could just introduce yourselves, share your pronouns, share a little
bit about yourself as much as you're comfortable in sharing,
and were greatly appreciated.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
Hi, everybody, my name is Jason Wler. I am my
pronow is that he him? They them? So where do
I start about myself? I am a writer, creative, entrepreneur,
the advocate. I've been in DC since I was sixteen,

(09:09):
or in the DMV area since I was sixteen, and
I'm originally from Douglas County, Georgia, outside of Atlanta, but
I've been up here. I've called this place home for
I've called DC home for the past almost thirteen fourteen years.
And yeah, I would said I'm black bear, non binary,
non binary, but queen, and I'm happy to be on

(09:33):
my friend's amazing show. So I'll have to be a
guest today.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
Yep, thank you so much. And then Henry, my name
is Henry fill y'all.

Speaker 3 (09:42):
I am currently living in Brooklyn, New York. I've been
in Brooklyn, New York for about eight years now. I'm
originally from the DMV area, grew up in Marvel, Maryland.
I am currently a freelance writer for the Body Pro,
which is an HIV healthcare platform. I also have been
a community influencer focused around monkey Parks, and I use

(10:03):
my platform on social media primarily for sexual positivity and career,
you know, healing and love and us being better at
whatever the thing that we need to be better at,
specifically around sex and our interpersonal relationships that are romantic
and also platonic. I bar tend professionally. I am a

(10:23):
toy collector, actual figure. It's not sex toys.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
Thank you for that classification.

Speaker 4 (10:33):
Yeah, I got to clarify. Can you say toys to people?

Speaker 3 (10:35):
These motherfuckers look at you like, oh, hey, not them
cotton toys, the thing that, like, you know, you had
when you.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
Were a kid.

Speaker 4 (10:41):
Okay, And I'm a huge nerd.

Speaker 3 (10:44):
I love comic books, I love nature, I love being outside.
I have a cat who is verming around and life
is great.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
Okay, excellent. And then so we are recording this episode
during Mercury retrograde, and Mercury is retrograding. So we have
another guest who is currently experiencing some technical diff difficulties,
but hopefully we can get them in as soon as
possible and they can join us, because I also believe

(11:14):
that they're going to have some great things to add
to this conversation as well. But I did at least
want to engage Jason and then Henry in this icebreaker
question for you all, which city has the best and
most inclusive sex scene for black gay men?

Speaker 2 (11:34):
So I would say, honestly, I would say DC. I
would say, I'm going with DC. I'm going with DC.
I do love Atlanta too. Atlanta I had amazing, amazing,
amazing time, and usually every time I go to Atlanta,
it's an amazing time. But I would say for myself,

(11:56):
maybe I'm biased, but I can I can say definitely DC,
and especially it's a lot of more inclusive stuff on
this way. I've heard about some parties that are really,
really inclusive. I would say. The reason why I would
say in DC because it's an inclusive scene, because there's
like a variety of spaces that catered to different body type,

(12:19):
sexual expressions and relationship dynamics that's up and coming also,
but also like places like New York and Atlanta, gives
like a rich cultural, rich rich mix and cultural for
sexual diversity. And it really depends on what you're like
looking for. But I feel it's like DC, New York

(12:40):
and Atlanta definitely have their own mix of their own
contributions to the scene. I even know a lot of
the folks in New York and DC. They like the
little they like they're like an outdoor action. They like
a little outdoor action, little public play, outdoor action.

Speaker 3 (12:56):
So you know, like when this question, when I saw
this question and in the email, I had thoughts about
it immediately, and I want to say, no city does
I've been So I'm forty five. You know, I'm probably
be the oldest person in this in this chat today.
And I'm not saying that my age gives you more

(13:18):
access to more information, that I'm more wiser, more better
than anyone in this space. But for the level of times,
the much sex that I've had since I was in
my early twenties to now, I would have said, like formerly,
DC would probably be the most inclusive place. It's Chocolate City,
nothing but blackness and black people everywhere.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
It's beautiful.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
But the thing that has become disheartening in the years
since I have been participating in hookup culture, sex sex parties,
things like that, is that y'all let too many Yahkoobians
in the room. It's I don't like it. I think
that like no space now really to have a black

(14:01):
only space anymore. I feel like people feel like it's
more in vogue to be diverse. But I'm like, why
we provide diversity with with a minority, then I welcome
in us in our space is while we welcome to ours.

Speaker 4 (14:13):
So I don't feel like any state right now or
any city has.

Speaker 3 (14:16):
A great culture because I feel like black rip people
gotten too comfortable around.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
Like I was gonna ask, say you could be in
but I think I can. I can kind of get that.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
I was going to ask that as well.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
It's it's a it's a it's a it's an uncon
term white.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Okay, it's a very un I will add that to
my lexicon.

Speaker 3 (14:41):
I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean we could
be more. We could be more to c and say
like snow you know, or palm people. We can say
a lot of things, but I don't, I know there's
I don't think there's.

Speaker 4 (14:56):
No space in in.

Speaker 3 (15:00):
And like no spaces are inclusive anymore, and that's the
thing that they shouldn't be inclusive.

Speaker 4 (15:04):
They should be for us.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
I would say, if you go to a District devent
not to be confused, but dev entertainment, if you go
to a District Evan event, you're gonna see nothing but
niggas up in there.

Speaker 3 (15:14):
So so I will say, like, like in my own defense,
I don't do circuit parties because like that, Yeah, District
v Entertainment the difference.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
So so yeah, So this District Deviant is actually the
platform that Jason has founded with his partner, and I
really I really enjoy it because I recently went to
like a mashup that District Deviate did with Zodiac Freakfest,
which is another local sex party, and I definitely saw

(15:53):
the difference. And I definitely saw like the impact that
District Deviant had on the space because you know, it
was more open and more welcoming to different body types.
You also sort of like trans folks in there, where
you know, you would not have necessarily seen that otherwise.
But I see that they're here. I don't know if

(16:16):
they're given, if they need a little bit more time,
but Manty, are you ready? Can you just introduce yourself
to us.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
Hey guys, is manti.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
Was it like a for introduction or just just share
a little bit about yourself, give your name, give your pronouns.
And then the icebreaker question that we've gotten to is,
in your opinion, which city has the best and most
inclusive sex scene for black gay men?

Speaker 2 (16:45):
Okay, Manty he him.

Speaker 5 (16:48):
And I reside in the DMV, and you said most
inclusive for black game man.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah, in your personal in your personal experience, and.

Speaker 6 (16:59):
I don't tell, Probably give New York and Atlanta and maybe.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
D C for three, but that's a little.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
Okay. And then what made you say New York and
Atlanta so quick? And what gives you hesitancy around d C?

Speaker 2 (17:15):
Uh? New York and Atlanta. I've found a.

Speaker 5 (17:18):
Lot of gay sorry black gay scenes there itself that
have been fun, inviting. And for d C, I mean
it's d C, this this big old melting pot here
opposed to New York. There there are a few places

(17:40):
that aren't welcome into two black spaces. And I'm sure
the same thing as in New York and Atlanta as
as well. I just haven't come across them from the
times in which I visited versus the ones here in
d C that we you know, we actively know about.
We've been there, We've seen I've actually seen it happen,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
So oh that's why.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
Amen. So I would say New York just for the
simple fact, like the amount of activities that you can
get into any day of the week.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
I will say Atlanta because you know, Atlanta just is
so black and like Brits and biscuits black. I want
to say d C. But what gives me pause around
DC as far as it being inclusive is that with DC,

(18:38):
class comes into space, comes into question. And the ways
that you see class come into question with DC is
like where some of these parties happen and when they
start and when they end to where like if you
don't have a call or if you can't uber to
and from, it's going to be space that's closed off

(19:01):
to you. So that so that's what gives me pause,
even though a lot of people will say DC.

Speaker 5 (19:07):
And then.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
One that I'm curious about and would like to find
out about. I want to see what the scene is
like in New Orleans.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
Did they have one?

Speaker 4 (19:18):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (19:19):
And that's what I'm curious about that that's what I
would that's what I would like to know. We're gonna
pause for a second, but don't go too far more
of this conversation. When we come back, you're listening to

(19:52):
Hella Black, Hella, Queer, Hella Christian. I think the eyes
has been broken, and we're all here and we can
all kind of get into the conversation because we're already
running a little bit behind. But I do find like
there's usually glitches because there's a great conversation to be had.

(20:13):
So the name of this show is called Death to
Select Doors, and we're really looking to discuss how fat
phobia and and femphobia play out within the black a
community just in general. But I was also inspired to
kind of like put this within the specific context of
like either sex parties or sex positive spaces, because, as

(20:35):
some of the other panelists may have agreed, may have experienced,
there's just been this rise within these spaces to where
they want everybody to be discreet, they want everybody to
be d l they want everybody to be like slim, fit, muscular,
or athletic, and that's not the only way to be sexy.

(20:59):
And I wanted to make sure that I brought various
people of various body types, so it's not just one
demographic that's having the conversation. But maybe we could just
have a cross conversation. So what we'll do is, for
the flow of this conversation, just so we can know
which order we're going in, I'll pose the question and

(21:20):
then Henry you can come in with your response, and
then Jason you can come in with your response, Manti
you can respond, and then if I have anything to add,
I'll just add it at the end before we move
to the next question. So what are so this is
a two parter. What are your earliest memories around your body?

(21:41):
And what were you told about your body?

Speaker 3 (21:44):
So, like the crazy part is that, like let me
preface this, I feel like every body specifically gave people,
especially the way social media is set up nowadays, you
want to have a reckonend with their body at some point.
Lucky for me in the house of women. So my
body was never a conversation how I presented, how I looked.

(22:06):
And I come from a very pro queer you know,
not colorless, not that phobic, not able as family not saying,
very uncommon for black families, but they were very progressive.

Speaker 4 (22:18):
But my body never came from a conversa.

Speaker 3 (22:19):
It wasn't like I started dealing with niggas that my
body started to come into question and you start being
hit with like you know.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
I think.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
The first time I really I had a really huge
record with my body is when I really got fit
and I was in my fit era in my early
thirties and someone has said to me directly to my face,
I liked you.

Speaker 4 (22:38):
Better this way.

Speaker 3 (22:39):
You could hang out with us now because you look
like this. And it is totally even to this day,
me being forty five and it happened when I was
thirty three still unravels me in my relationship with me
in the gym.

Speaker 4 (22:53):
I will say this, this is dark, but this is
the truth.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
My partner died last summer unexpectedly, and I have had
to reassess my relationship with my body and a lot
of things, especially after I've learned in therapy. I've walked
back a lot of think I'm trying to start over again,
so getting come from my body and being forty and dating.

Speaker 4 (23:13):
And hooking up and all this other shit.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
But like.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
You cannot be in hookup culture using apps because I've
owned up that I was hooking up on Black Planet.
I wasn't on like I mean, I had men for now,
you know she was she was a time. You know
what I'm saying, pre prep hooking up with the time, Okay,

(23:38):
but it was just like in my in my highway proportion,
I was always the thing hight weight, proportionate, and I
was like I was five seven hundred and twenty five
hundred and thirty pounds. Then I've since blossomed to a
to a full figured man, but you know you, I'm
bombarded with it. And the thing I weep for the

(24:01):
gaze now that there was no social media at the
time of my reckonings and things that was going on.
It wasn't so much input and information of like you're
being hit with an algorithm of people telling you that
this is what you need to look on, especially with
like how much men, specifically straight men have become so
obsessed with their physical appearances more than we have. And
I also think there's a triper down effect too. That's

(24:22):
a whole nother conversation.

Speaker 4 (24:24):
But I've always I'm so far.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
I'm literally in a space right now where I'm really
really loving and working on making an effort to love
me where I am. Before I do return to the
gym again, because I've been to the gym consically since
before COVID.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
Okay, well, Henry, Before we move forward, I do just
want to pause and of course extend condolences to you
as far as losing your partner, and thank you so
much for your vulnerability and sharing that in your space,
in this space. So, Jason, what were your earliest memories
around your body and what were you told about your body?

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Oh? Blood was I told? I was told a lot
of things from my body. Lord. So I was originally
raised down South and Atlanta outside Atlanta, Georgia. My dad
was in the you know, my military Brad. My dad
was in an army. He literally like growing up he
is like g I Joe, like literally like six this

(25:22):
man at six k five built, rawlings, muscular, like the
most masculine masculine of like things. You know, like you know,
you see a six foot five man walking down the
street and everything, you know, you motherfuckers go lose a
ship because they like they thought they thought my dad
was a basketball player or whatever. Not. So my dad
always have taught you know, I'm the youngest of three.

(25:44):
I have a older brother and I have older sister.
Me and my brother will always go to like the
gym with my father and he will always like you know,
teach us, like, you know, fitness stuff and working out
and everything. But he wasn't always around since he was
in the military. But for me, the you know, it's
one saying that you know, teach your kids about, you know,
the points of fitness and working out and everything. But

(26:07):
also there was you know, some stuff that was being
pushed on to me about you know, my dad. The
dog side to that. My dad reason why he got
to finish. But he was you know, growing up, he
was being bullied a lot, and he leaned onto that.
And you know, my dad has a big blurred as well.
He's a nerd. You know, I'm also Almoso an animey
nerd and everything. But my dad is very much in

(26:28):
the comics Superman, Batman, DC, Marvel, you name it. So
he leaned on he used that, he leaned on, He
leaned on a lot of that. As you know, this
is just from what I've seen growing up. I've seen
you know, he used that as as a crush and everything.
But he used you you know, I always kind of
cringe some times when people say like, oh, like Gemin's therapy,
and I'm like, no, it's therapy. Therapy just something can

(26:50):
be therapeutic, but it's not like things can be therapeutic,
but it doesn't take the place of therapy. And I
wish that, like my dad was in like define and
or he was, I wish he was afforded the luxury
to be in therapy growing up, because maybe that would
have helped them out with a lot of this issue
surrounding just you know, my dad went through a lot

(27:12):
of stuff, and for me, a lot of times, like
basically I've seen like fitness being used as the way
of not just like escapism in a way, but also
like just really not dealing with yourself. So a lot
of the times it's just a lot of you know,
pressures of being I gotta be big, gotta be swollen,
I gotta be this almost going to mess with me

(27:33):
if I am this, which I'm a skinnier swim guy.
And basically it's a lot of ways I was told like, oh,
I'm not masculine enough, I'm not this enough, I'm not
you know enough as a man. And because I don't
have all these things because I don't play basketball, because
I don't play football. I'm six one. Guys was really like,

(27:58):
especially boys and men, just the people in my grade,
butre like, oh, you don't do all this stuff. You're
not even in football, you don't even play in sports.
You're you're, you're, you're you're wasting your height and everything
and all of their type stuff. And that was your
height I would want to be, you know, and I'm
just like, well, what's stopping you from doing what you

(28:18):
want to do, because I'm gonna do what i want
to do. I'm gonna dance, you know. For me, I
found refuge in art and creativity. But you know, it
was the whole archetype of like you gotta be big,
you gotta be strong, you gotta be masculine, you gotta
be this so no one doesn't mess with you, and
all their type of ship. My brother he puts on
muscle easily, so him and my dad that was their

(28:39):
kind of thing about being in a gym. But a
lot of the times, the first thing that I was
talked to me, basically talk to me about my own
body was that I wasn't that it wasn't enough. If
I didn't achieve these things, I wouldn't be that my
body the way it is some slim, naturally slim, and
everything's just I was told that it wasn't enough, and
it took me to some time to and I still

(29:02):
struggle with finding comfort in my body sometimes, but I
do like that I do fit into most stuff, a
lot of things made from my size. I feel my
height is optimal. It took me a while to get
to a bit of a positive place to undo some
of the things that was taught to me and a

(29:22):
lot of things that Henry just said. I do want
to go to the gym, but I want to make
sure that I'm doing it for me and I know nobody else,
because for everybody else, And you know, I look in
the mirror and I can honestly say at thirty that
my body is beautiful. I've struggled with it for a
long time, and you know, I've had my this more.

(29:43):
I feel like we all like I've had my body
dysmorphic more moments. But my body is beautiful. I like
my body, and people have been playing out stuff about
me and my body. I'm just like, well, it ain't
stopped me from my body never stopped me from getting marriage.
It ain't stopped me from fucking. It ain't stopped me
from doing the shit I want to do being outside

(30:04):
or whatever. A lot of times, especially for my body hair,
its people uh my and my family will pointing all
you got all this body hair or whatever. I don't
even think I'm not hairy for real, for real, they
were pointing out like, oh you have did you have that?
I'm just like, well, that ain't stopped me from getting
a nigga. He like all this, I like all this.
So it's my body here, child. Motherfuckers. They go crazy

(30:28):
for the pitts, girl, they go crazy for pits out here.

Speaker 1 (30:30):
So yes, I've noticed that. I've noticed that too, and
I really appreciate what you kind of like how you
highlighted how things to be therapeutic. That doesn't make them therapy,
because you know, people think therapy is just I sit
on the couch and I just kind of like unload

(30:51):
on someone. But it's kind of like the unloading is
a part, but like you also are supposed to like
leave with like tools. So Manda, I want to bring
you into the conversation and what's going to at least
the first question is what are your earliest memories around
your body and what were you told about your body?

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Earliest memories about my body was I was skinny.

Speaker 6 (31:14):
So I was a little bean pold growing up.

Speaker 5 (31:17):
So that was earliest memories from men women Anyone that
I came across is oh my god, you're so small,
You're so small. Of course, if it was an older
woman like I can't wait to get a waste like
you and everything like that. So those are the earliest
memories and just stuck with me and sometimes still do.

(31:41):
So I didn't get into the gym until like maybe
my like mid twenties, yeah, mid to late twenties, and
you know, me and my bestroom just like, oh like
let's just go to the gym. Let's just work out
or whatever and see what comes of it. And you know,

(32:01):
eventually you go and then you start to meet people
and you know different you know, different body tastes, different
people in the gym, and you're asking them about machines
or how did you know keep mino still skinny?

Speaker 2 (32:13):
So I'm like, well, how did you gain muscles? What
did you do?

Speaker 5 (32:16):
And they're telling me about different mask gainers and meal
plans and which they're on and so forth. And that's
how I learned and grew and in a sense created
the body that I wanted to have and look how
I wanted to look.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
And just like Jason said, with the body dysmorphia.

Speaker 5 (32:35):
I still see like that skinny person that everyone referenced.
Sometimes I can look in the mirror and be like,
I'm still skinny. I still want to put on a
little bit more weight and everything like that.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
And there are other days I'm just like I ain't
going to the gym. I'm going to eat what I
want to eat. My body is fine and I don't care.

Speaker 5 (32:54):
So it just you know Evan flow. So the GM
is therapeutic I because of how often I go.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
If I miss too many days, I.

Speaker 5 (33:09):
Can start to feel a little down on myself, like
why haven't I gone to the gym. It's just more
so like being lazy and not going itself, because there's
no real reasons, not like I'm like busy. I just
be like, oh, I don't want to go today, and
then after like two or three days, like, okay, you
need to go because it does help.

Speaker 6 (33:29):
If I had a stressful day at work.

Speaker 5 (33:31):
I can just go here, put on a playlist and
just just just work all that out. You know.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
It's not therapy.

Speaker 5 (33:37):
I'm not even here talking to somebody while I'm doing it,
but just you know, relaxing and just being with myself
and just doing something.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
The energy of the day. It gets the energy of
the day outside of you and any any and it
gives you some place to put the energy to where
it's no longer just living, you know, in you. I
can definitely understand that.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
Yeah, I can, and I can.

Speaker 5 (34:01):
I can sometimes if something's heavy on my mind, I
can go to the gym and just process it while
I'm working out and.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
Everything like that. And honestly, different playlists can change your all.

Speaker 5 (34:11):
Working off is fast, so I can listen to R
and B one day, I can listen to a gospel
mix another day. So like it, it's just me and
it's just like my place to escape, and I feel
a lot better, you know, once I leave, and I
can go in with the rest of my day, rest
of my evening, wherever the case may be.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
Thank you so much for thank you all so much
for sharing, and then for me, I'll say, much like
Manty and Jason, particularly as a child, always hearing messages
around how skinny I was. But also I took pride
and how skinny I was and the fact that people

(34:48):
looked at me as skinny, cause you know, one of
my favorite singers was and is Dying a Roar, so
particularly looking at her like especially like kind of like
doing like her prime's era, and how skinny she was.
So like when people said that I was skinny, it's
almost like I was akin to that. I've always I've

(35:10):
people have always commented on my legs and me having
long legs, so that's also something that I've always taken
pride in. And then something that I was also told
about my body is being someone who is you know,
dark skinned and clearly unambiguously dark skinned, and kind of

(35:33):
like it always being correlated to how my father was
so dark skinned, and I did kind of get that
message in around well, you don't need to be out
into the sun too long. You've already been baked long
enough by God as it is. Or you know, kind
of like those messages around like you know, particularly me
being like toward the end of toward the end of

(35:55):
the scale when it comes to like you know, shades
as far as like being like dark skinned and things
of that nature. And then we've already started to get
into it, but maybe we can flesh this out just
a little bit more. How has sexuality impacted how you
view your body? And then what have black gay men

(36:17):
told you about your body and how has it impacted you?

Speaker 3 (36:21):
I think the thing, I think, the thing that largely
happens that that that I've been dealing with in the
last few years is that, like, I'm very aware of
my social currency when it's in regard to my body.
I'm aware that I'm not completely dark skinned. I'm brown skinned,
more on the lighter side. I look young for forty five.
I am maskling for that because I have a beard

(36:41):
and a bunch of tattoos, and I'm relatively fit to
some degree. I also, do you understand that being a
total bottom changes my social currency?

Speaker 4 (36:49):
Also? I think that like.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
A lot of times, people are hyper aware of their
social currency and where they check off the boxes and
where they don't. And it also that level of awareness
can also put you into weird competitions with your friends
if you are insecure or jealous. So I've learned to

(37:14):
and also learned also too that that people build community
through their bodies and that's just not fit folks and
also fat folks. And I think people are wanting to
feel safe in their bodies around people. And like, one
thing that I have put into practices that I stop

(37:35):
commenting on people's bodies that I'm not familiar with. I
don't compliment people that I don't know. And because I
don't know, my compliment may like I may be telling
you that like you look great or whatever and blah
blah blah and like and not like off some like
you know, me hopelessly flirting with you, that you I'm
trying to fuck and trying to smash or you thinking
that either not off some shit like that, but like,

(37:57):
you know, the applause for some people, especially within social media,
and when you're not getting those applause, I don't want
be a part of your applause if I don't know you,
to really celebrate you. And there's a level of celebration
I just have just in general for black queer people
that I will always have, But there's a large part
of it where life that you have a right to

(38:17):
your body. I don't compliment, I don't I don't critique
or have ideas about like, you know, what's this what
I think about? Like, especially if you're gonna ask me,
we're not the million I'm gonna tell you, baby, I'm
not telling me.

Speaker 4 (38:25):
What you think about your body.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
That's between that's your relationship with your body, has nothing
to do with me.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
But I have just.

Speaker 4 (38:32):
Found that that if you're waiting for people to make
you feel great in your body.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
You're gonna be waiting for them.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
And I'm at a point in my life now I'm
tired of waiting to be validated in that way.

Speaker 4 (38:49):
And I will say in this.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
Conversation that I will be completely transparent about where I'm
at and how I'm feeling.

Speaker 4 (38:55):
But and also like, I also don't post.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
My body anymore well as much as I used to
on social media because I don't really like people pause.
So like, in lieu of becoming fit in my social
currency changing, the thing that I didn't like the most
about being fit was like I didn't like people being
my friend based off the fact that I was fit,
and didn't like being in community with people just because
we were all fit.

Speaker 4 (39:21):
That's not that's not enough of a through line for me.

Speaker 3 (39:23):
But to be in community community matters to me, and
like we have the same morals, the same politics, Like
I could be friends with anybody, also can fuck anybody,
but I just prefer to being in relationship and friendship
with people where we.

Speaker 4 (39:36):
Were where our morals and our politics aligned.

Speaker 3 (39:40):
I don't give a fuck of you fat, I don't
give a fuck of you fit, don't give a fuck
your top or bottom. I can, like I don't have
to fuck my friends, like I can be in relationship
with anyone.

Speaker 4 (39:49):
But I think that a lot of.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
Times it is such an easy thing to like hang
out with just the fat people because you're found hangout
a fit people because you're fat, Like you have to
get people permission to one disappoint you and also get
people permission to excel and show you something different.

Speaker 4 (40:07):
And I give everybody permission to do both.

Speaker 3 (40:09):
But I've just like learned now in this stage in
my life that I want to finally have real male
friendships that are actually healthy for ones and people are
not like backbiting and doing all kinds of weird shit
behind your fucking back.

Speaker 4 (40:23):
But my friendships are all diverse. They're short, they're tall.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
They're they're fit, they're not fit, they're light skinned, they're
dark skinned, they're fem they're not finding their system, they're trans,
they're non binary, they're rich, they're broke, they they're variety.

Speaker 4 (40:38):
But the through line is mutual respect, mutual trust and love.

Speaker 3 (40:43):
And if I don't have that in my in my
friendships now or my relationship, goir also what it is
I don't want and I would prefer that like that
that we just are just I don't know, just they're
bigger thing besides.

Speaker 4 (41:02):
Or you.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
Yeah, And then I think it's almost like this mind
fuck that happens because like let's say you go to
the gym and you start working out, and you kind
of reach this ideal. And I think, Henry, you even
brought this up in response in your response to the
first question to where you said where you actively had
people tell you, hey, you can hang with us now

(41:25):
because you you've you've attained the goal, And it's kind
of like this mind fuck to where it kind of
like reinforces the belief that you actually weren't good enough before.
So like, you you reach this achievement and you get
all these people to pay attention to you, but like

(41:46):
the real healing isn't actually happening.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
Okay, So for me, sexuality has had an impact on
how I view my body. So in our community, uh,
there's a lot of pressure or about body types and
how sexual you know, sexual attractiveness is tied. I feel
like physical appearances, so a lot of the things that
Henry just mentioned about, you know, social currency, how you look,

(42:16):
So that has played a lot. And sometimes most of
times I do think, like, especially for me, it's like
I'm not the you know, I'm not a slim body.
My body's slim, so where I didn't really gain way
until like the pandemic, so stuff peopen all up and

(42:36):
down through the stress, health, all the type of stuff.
And then I'm married. So I'm my partner. He's very
he's the more fit one out of us. He runs
and do all this stuff. I mean, I'm not I
go to the gym sometimes, but not as frequently frequently
frequently as I want to. But being in a relationship

(42:56):
that I am in, we do I do notice, like,
you know, a lot of guys flocked towards my partner.
He's we're around the same height, he's dark skinned, tattoos,
you know, more more toner apps, all that type of stuff.
They will flock to him. They would be like, oh
he's married to him, boguart him and the boguart me

(43:17):
and go over to him. I'm just like, okay, girl whatever,
I don't go fuck. So I just learned to just
like I guess for me, I learned that, and not
all attention obviously, it's that all attention is good attention
and seeing how these niggas they're going to play, they're
going to play games. And for me and my partner,
like we're open and of course, so we we try

(43:39):
to have our conversations and we have our conversations about
like who was approaching us, who's approaching us together separately?
And then sometimes I've been told, especially in the past,
I have to I'm actively fighting against things I was
talking to me in the past about my body not
being ideal or I'm not as attractive. I'm like, I

(43:59):
have to reevaluated and acting myself. Okay, who who told who?
Who told myself that lie? Why am I believing in it?
Why am I giving it that much attention? The attention
that I do get is the attention that I get.
I'm you know, I am. When I also describe myself

(44:19):
I'm six with the one. I currently have green hair,
my skimsne I'm more brown. I'm on the brown like
kind of like medium like brown skimshone. I have the
light in front of me right now. My dad's more lighter,
my mom's more like around my complexion. So those are
a lot of things that have to like, you know,
deal with. My brother is light skin, he has curly hair.

(44:42):
I've been told many times, especially in school, like oh,
you're ugly. Your brother's beautiful. Like, so I had to, like,
you know, I'm currently like just you know, unpacking a
whole lot of things, and in my relationship within the community,
especially with X and everything. It's it's a lot of

(45:03):
it's a lot of this hyper masculine culture that's so
unhealthy and people are over compensating and they're just not
able to just be. For me, I'm a person that
the way I exist show what I'm just like. I
don't want you to have to I always tell people
you don't have to lie, you don't have to lie
of kick it, you don't have a lot of you're

(45:23):
like a lot of kicke it. You just be yourself.
Be yourself, because that's what I created. I crave authenticity
and my friendship circles. We're not vain like that for
a body. We're gonna put that, we're gonna put that,
we're gonna put them clothes on for fashion, but we're
not vain like that around body. Like Henry said, like

(45:45):
I have friends who are queer, trans fat, slim, able
to disable, having needing wheelchairs and walking aids and all
that type of stuff. Like I I I look at
hearts when it comes to friends and people and the
quality of their heart and their morals and their values.
So it's a lot of especially in this area in DC,

(46:09):
it's all about like, well, you know what you know,
what's you into? Are you a D nine?

Speaker 1 (46:15):
Are you yeah? So kind of like that whole notion
of that whole notion of like one of my mentors
in DC said, when people ask how are you doing there,
not really asking how you're doing that, asking what you do?
They want They want like the update. They want to
find out what's what's the goal, what's the most recent

(46:36):
goal that you've achieved, and really what you have going on.
So I've experienced that in DC too as well. And
then MATI, I wanted to get you to come in
and kind of share your experiences, and once again the
question is how has sexuality, how has sexuality your your
sexuality impacted how you view your body? And then for you,
what have black gay men told you about your body

(46:58):
and how has it impacted you? If at all?

Speaker 5 (47:01):
Gotcha? So to go piggyback off of Henry and Jason
speaking of your social currency and so forth within the
black gay community.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
So with me, I am.

Speaker 5 (47:14):
I'm five to ten. I'm light skinned, and if it's
winter time, I'm a lot lighter because I don't have
a tan or anything like that. I have helotatics, well
not helo tattoos. I got about thirteen tattoos itself. So
starting off being skinny, so I was always skinny. So
I was the gay skinny guy.

Speaker 6 (47:35):
So that didn't really affect anything.

Speaker 5 (47:38):
And how I view my body itself, it was more
so with me than other people.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Me working out was more so.

Speaker 5 (47:47):
How I want to look, how I want to present,
how I want my clothes to fit, how I want
to look on vacation, how I want to show up
in pictures and everything like that. I don't want to
be that skinny kid, you know from back in the day.
So the only thing that I kept from that would
have been like my waistline I was. I was like,
as long as my waistline stay small, I don't care

(48:08):
Like I can get big ladies. I can get a
big chest arms, but I need my waist to stay small.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
So my So I'm.

Speaker 5 (48:18):
Very well aware of if you are light skin, good hair, tattoos,
and a body, the social currency in which you have,
very well aware of it. I'm aware of the access
the people that I can interact with, with things that
I can get and invite it to.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
And so forth.

Speaker 5 (48:39):
However, I am very much can my friend come? My
best friend is coming with me? Like, okay, if I'm coming, then.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
These people are coming with me as well.

Speaker 5 (48:50):
I'm not just coming by myself unless I need to
depending on what type of event it is. But other
than that, like, my my friends are coming with me.
And my friends we are all we're all very different.
We've all worked out at some point in time. We
all work out differently, but that's not how we met.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
We met on you know.

Speaker 5 (49:12):
I've met some of my friends through you know, doing
the podcast I'm sorry, not the podcast, doing the web
series and so forth, and we've been friends for ten
plus years now, go on vacations and everything like that.
Some of them do CrossFit. I'm not doing CrossFit. Some
of them they're military. They like to run. I'm not running,
no dawn where if for fun, Like that's just not

(49:33):
what I do. I have two friends that have competed, you.

Speaker 2 (49:38):
Know, I either.

Speaker 5 (49:39):
But that's but when we're together, we're not talking about
working out or complimenting each other bodies.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
Like we just having a good time drinking or whatever
the case may be.

Speaker 5 (49:48):
And I tell my friend that does CrossFit, you know, randomly,
I tell them, I'll say, I miss Fantonio.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
I said, Pattonio used to like cook breakfast for us
in the morning.

Speaker 5 (49:57):
And like you know, he'll put biscuits, it's at ice
cream and strawberry preserves.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
And that was dessert.

Speaker 5 (50:03):
I said, this is Tony go ahead eating keen wall
and salmon and baje. I said, I want this shit
like I want fat Tony go back. But it's funny,
you know. And he does CrossFit and I'm in the gym,
but he and he'll look at it. He'll be like, oh, bitch,
like I'm fat today and this that and the third
they're like trying to cover up.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
I'm like, you like be the same sounds like what
are you talking about? So that's pretty much how you know.

Speaker 5 (50:27):
I'm aware of the social currency and aware of certain
things that I get in some of my friends they'll
you know, they'll make fun of it here and there,
but at the same time, like, Okay, my friend's coming
with me. I was invited to this party. Y'all going
with me, and I'll roll up, hey Monty and I
got boom boom boom with me. And it is what
it is like, if you want me there, then my
friends are going to be there. And I don't feel

(50:50):
any kind of way about it. If my friends and
if my friends can't come, depend on what typpen of
it is. Nine times out ten, I'm not going to
go because that's that's just.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
How I am.

Speaker 5 (50:59):
And I and when I meet people in the black
gay community and they see me and they'd.

Speaker 6 (51:04):
Be like, oh, you work out your body so nice?
How do you you know?

Speaker 2 (51:08):
How do you get your abs like that? Diet?

Speaker 5 (51:11):
I can I have a mail plan on my and
my Gmail from one of my friends a while ago.
I said, if you want, I can send it to you,
I said, asses, I'm eighty percent twenty percent workout, so
you can get your diet down pack. Then you can
start doing crunches and sit ups and so forth, and
and you know, start to develop abs and everything like that.
I tell people I'm not a trainer. I'm not going
to train you. There are days I don't want to

(51:32):
go to the gym. There are days I'm ordering a
twenty piece from America's Best wing.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
I'm not your trainer.

Speaker 5 (51:39):
Like I said, I do this because I'm comfortable with
where I am and this is how I want to look.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
And I know what I need to do for my body.

Speaker 5 (51:46):
If I get eat one day and I start to
gain a whole bunch of weight and I decide, oh
my god, I need to get my six pack abs back.
I know what I need to do for thirty days
in order to get it, and I know the discipline
in which I need to have. But everyone isn't like that.
So I can't train you. I can't say on you
because some days I don't say on myself. So you
have again, like everyone's saying, you have to do it
for you, you can't do it for someone else, and everything

(52:07):
like that can I give you tips here and there
and so forth.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Yes, absolutely, but I'm not gonna hold you accountable. You
gotta hold yourself.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
You gotta want it for you.

Speaker 5 (52:16):
You have to because if you don't, then you're paying
gym memberships and you lift up these weights for it's.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Going to burn you out.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
And then I do I do want to not because
some people may not know. When Manti says the web series,
Manti is talking about the web series Horrorrism, which was,
I will say, at least regionally, a very successful, very
well talked about web series that you know that was
produced kind of like during like the early twenty tens.

(52:44):
And that's even how I came to note. And then
you know, Manti along with his friend Reese, was also
a part of Horrorism. They host like the Little R
and R podcast. So I did just want to give
you that plug right there and then. And then even
with what you shared around your fan, your friend that's like,
oh I'm fat, and you just kind of have to

(53:04):
give them the side. I mean, I have a friend
of mine from church that I followed on Instagram, and
you know they definitely kind of like fit, you know,
like that archetype that will get you a high quantity
of social currency within our community, and they'll be talking about, oh,
I'm one ninety eight, I'm fat, and I'm like, if

(53:27):
you don't go somewhere that is not here. But I
will say I have to be honest, the black gay
community was the first place to make me feel fat.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
The black.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
Before the Black gay community, I was never made to
feel any type of way or I was not made
to feel, you know, self conscious in any type of
way about whatever my weight was. Even though I did
start to like substantially gain, like during my first years
of college. Still it was a thing where I would fluctuate.

(54:05):
I would go up and I would go down, and
then kind of like within like let's say, at my
local church, I would like even be encouraged to where
they would say, oh, the weight looks good on you,
because you were too skinny before. So there was definitely that.
When was the first time you heard the term no facts,
no fems And when was the first time you engaged
a blackgay space where admittance was based on your body type?

Speaker 3 (54:29):
I think like, I think like, and it's in my
gay inception. I think I think you always hear no
fast no fems. I can't think of a time where
I've not heard no fast, no fems. I feel like
it's it's a little bit, it's a little bit pass
now here it as much anymore because like the like
these new kids are much more inclusive about bodies.

Speaker 4 (54:50):
But it used to be like everywhere. But I will say.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
I think I never really realized the whole like select
door things I got to New York. I didn't notice
it so much when I lived in DC before I
left back in twenty fifteen. But when I got to
New York and I started going to certain sex parties,
definitely got the like you know, select door, you have

(55:18):
to be fit.

Speaker 4 (55:19):
To get in, and yeah, like I yeah, that's yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:26):
That's really the only time I think, we'll say, like
I guess I moved to New York. I guess twenty
I moved to New York twenty seventeen. That's when I
really started noticing that, like, you know, because it wasn't
a DC thing at the time that I was going
to sex parties in DC. All sex parties pretty much
is like you know, they just was like black owned
that was like you know, the good old ding. But yeah,

(55:51):
that's the only thing I can think of most of
sex parties then, like they had all body types in there.
I remember like the body types being like you had
to be fatter, you could be fatter or whatever, didn't
make the difference. But New York has been very New
York is monstrous in body politics. I hate it.

Speaker 2 (56:10):
I probably when out like turn I mean it was
probably like aware of it, being like, uh when I
turned like eighteen, and I was like, ooh, you know
on Grinder now you know, I llegal, you know, like
the whole kind of shit, you know. So literally I
came out like I came out to the colet when
I was like seventeen, and so then turning, you know, eighteen,

(56:33):
then I got Grinder for the first time. And then
I'm just saying like this and this was what this
was like two twenty thirteen. So they were still saying
they were still they were still saying no facts, no fanis,
no blacks, like all of that. And I went to
high school in Fairfax, so like, yeah, it's it's it's
very like white out there. And I found, you know,

(56:55):
throughout those spaces, those motherfucker the white gays thing want
my black gays. They want me like they were they
would fud me, but they would you know, lead me,
blocking to lead me afterwards. So I think my relationship
with you know, with and I'm going to go and
I'm going to the body politick. And when I noticed that,
so that's what my relationship with like gay men, you know,

(57:19):
in fair Fax, I was especially white gay men. I
was just like I was just you know, That's when
I think later right down the line, I just started
to realize I was being fetishized. And then when I
encountered more black gay men and then got into more spaces,
that's when I realized, oh, I actually, like the first
person took me on a date was the black was
a black gay man, first person to want to wine

(57:40):
and Dimi was a black gay man, first person to
you know, ones that really like taking me out for
a Valentine's Day was a black gay man. So from
there that's when like a lot of my like things
were shifting and I was just like, okay, like I
should probably I most likely prioritize my own own and
the people that wants to be in community with me.

(58:04):
And this is this is like way before this is
way before our turn twenty one, so I'm doing all
this internal work, you know, just just prioritizing. And then
by the time I turned twenty twenty one, I want
to say, like twenty two, that's when I went to
my first sex party and it was Zodiac freak Fest.
And to my knowledge, at Zodiac, it wasn't when I

(58:30):
first went, it wasn't they wasn't doing like select doors
or nothing like that. That came like more later, and
a lot of the parties around here. I've probably have
been to a party that that's been Selector and I
just didn't even know it. I just did. I didn't
even know it. And if they was doing select door,
you still see fat people that you still see they're

(58:50):
not really ENFORCNATE. But nowadays, nowadays there's some parties that
they do enforce that with. So that's why for me,
if I have been to a select door party, I
didn't even know select door, But if it was Selector,
I've seen everybody up in here. So it's not that's
they're not really enforcing it. But some parties, especially in DC,

(59:12):
have been doing that, and honestly and shriftly, that's the
reason why. And to get into the story about how
I started my own parties. I can't believe I'm actually
talking about this because I didn't. I didn't think today
I will talk about my own parties. Honestly, I try

(59:32):
to keep the things separate, but you know what we're
gonna We're just gonna go for it. So I started
my party because my best friend, his name is Aaron,
and he's been helped me out with a lot of
my parties and stuff like that. He helped me out,
but like everything, we were both each as cheerleader. Aaron
short shorter. He's from Atlanta, about way of Brooklyn, but

(59:53):
he's shorter, dark skinned. You know. He was coming up
last year for President's Day and he was like, yo,
so mean, like whatever the party is around here, I
want to go to. So I sent him hot Box
and my god, I said yeah, So I said in
hot Box, I wasn't even thinking about it, and he

(01:00:14):
was just like, girl, don't save me that bullshit.

Speaker 4 (01:00:17):
Girl.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
They own their own bullshit, and da da da da,
they're not checking for me at the door. And meanwhile,
I've been to hot Box event today. I've seen people,
you know, hoped up, people more bigger, you know, I've
been there, but it was just the principle of no matter.
And so when it came to that, I was like,
you know what, I want to have an event where
all my friends can get in with everybody doing it,

(01:00:38):
everybody doing them. You ain't gotta you know, if you
don't like whomever the fuck in there, you can leave, honestly,
because it's at a party, at a sex party anyway,
at a play party, you're not gonna there's signs you
made fuck a lot of people this times that do not.
But it's really about what you bring, not just what
you're bringing the vibe or what you're on, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
And then I'm like this, once you get in the
dark room, everybody's body is the same.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
Exactly, socking, fucking sucking people were sucking in closet and
fucking over here and fucking over there.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
And then and then I and then I and then
I said, because you're like, you brought up this great
point around how you have some people that you have
some parties that put out this image, but then you
still see people that don't fit that body type. And
what acue me is that sometimes you'll have these promoters
that say, oh, you have to be fit, you have

(01:01:31):
to be slim, you have to do muscular, you have
to be masculine, and then the people that are putting
on the event be fat and feminine. Mm hmmm so
and then manti. So the question we're at now is
when was the first time you heard the term no facts,
no fems? And when was the first time you engaged

(01:01:53):
a black gay space where admittance was based on your
body type?

Speaker 6 (01:01:57):
Uh, the no fat no films probably like.

Speaker 5 (01:02:03):
Early two thousands, I guess, like doing the date the
dating hookup apps where it be a joke where people
would say like oh, no fat no films in their
profile and everything like that. So that would probably be
the first time I've ever heard that particular term and

(01:02:26):
into a space.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
No because of the social currency that your body type
would afford you. Is it more of a thing where
you're not even having to request and invite people that
just automatically inviting you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
Good.

Speaker 5 (01:02:47):
But I've never like sought out a space where it
was strictly like my particular body type or or anything
like that. It's either like do I want to go
do I not want to go?

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
Type? You know type type type of thing.

Speaker 5 (01:03:03):
I mean, like I go to circuit like I go
to circuit parties, so they don't have like that strict
thing and it's pretty much who however you.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
Look, you know you're there. Sorry, I've never I've never
counted it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
No no, I mean no, no apology. And it's like
I don't want I don't want any of the participants
to feel like they have to perform a certain way
or have a certain type of answer to a question.

Speaker 4 (01:03:30):
So I've never heard.

Speaker 5 (01:03:32):
Like, I've never been invited to something like that. I've
never sought it out, have I seen it? And recent
and I have talked about it because I believe it
was on Twitter for whatever party was coming to d C.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
It was either like an.

Speaker 6 (01:03:47):
Aftes or or a sex party itself.

Speaker 5 (01:03:50):
And Flier said strict door and and.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
You know, him and I were just talking about.

Speaker 5 (01:03:57):
I was like, and because the comments were you know people,
we're in the comments you know pretty much on Twitter
like oh houses, strict door, Oh DC is you know, uh,
you know, excluding certain people and YadA YadA, YadA and
everything like that, and you know, just playing Devil's advocate.
And I was like, well, it has to be a
party for everybody, like you know, if it's strict or

(01:04:17):
like maybe I'm not sure, like who's ever been to
that parties before?

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
But maybe they just want to see a certain type.

Speaker 5 (01:04:25):
Maybe they just want to see a certain type on that,
you know, on that particular night, or you know, is
it just this particular night that that we're seeing and
everyone has made a big fuss about, or you know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
Have they had other parties where.

Speaker 4 (01:04:40):
Every night I'm gonna be a messy bitch Liz for
the drama.

Speaker 3 (01:04:45):
It's every night, and it's and it's really interesting to
the guy who runs it, I don't think will be
accepted to his own party in my personal opinion, and.

Speaker 7 (01:04:56):
And things that like the truth of that situation is
that they're supposed to be a newest community group and
I had joined it in helping build a community because
I am now single again and I don't have a partner.

Speaker 4 (01:05:07):
So I wanted to meet new people.

Speaker 3 (01:05:09):
But it is a it is supposed to be like
games and us hanging out, but it's really an over
glorified sex party. And the thing that was so interesting
about the thing, because I played deft is that kicking
a little bit on it too. Not that I support
the event because the people the person that runs it
is not a nice person.

Speaker 4 (01:05:27):
Fuck it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:29):
But I think the problem is that I think that
people don't realize is that like body politics in general
is not new to this party. And I think the
thing that was strange my conversation was just like people
act like, oh, this is a new thing, and y'all
are all terrible and all these misconceptions about what goes
on as sex parties versus really hitting the point of
like it being problematic because this is that phobic. But

(01:05:53):
the thing, like somebody has said in the conversation, you know,
you go to these parties and everybody there is different.

Speaker 4 (01:05:57):
There are fat people in the party.

Speaker 3 (01:05:59):
But the thing is is fatness is acceptable when the athleticism
is attached to it. And I think that like people
don't realize that if you go and build like a
rugby player or like a linebacker, that's hot. You may
got a little belly, man got six paper, you got
barrel chest, big ass thighs, you got a little bit
of like V taper proportions.

Speaker 4 (01:06:16):
They don't get fucking you fat, You got muscle. But
no one really talks about like what really happened in
those rooms. But it was like actigations.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
About like well, like if you're fat and you give
masculine right, but even then like.

Speaker 3 (01:06:28):
You being fem don't matter if you are muscular in
those parties, Like it's so much nuanced about what really
happens as sex party.

Speaker 4 (01:06:35):
But the thing it was so weird about that conversation,
like Manty isn't saying, was.

Speaker 3 (01:06:38):
That like people were just saying watching like oh, y'all, y'all,
I won't be able to bitch going pass it all
she has a cue of cheese today, or like y'all
in there doing coaching drugs and Jason, you probably know
this for a fact for operating parties, most sex parties
are generally drug free. Besides, if they had like a
smoking room, there's no drugs going on.

Speaker 4 (01:06:58):
When am I gonna put it in my sock? Like
we think I'm gonna pull all my shit in my socket?

Speaker 3 (01:07:03):
More likely I got my got, I got my pussy
out and my shit, okay, trying to hide ship in
my booty hole? Like what do you mean what I'm
gonna put my coke in? Like I don't but I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
Go ahead, I'm sorry, No.

Speaker 5 (01:07:20):
You want to say something just like but like like
particular spaces that I guess catered to, like a particular
body type or.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
Whateverthing like that.

Speaker 5 (01:07:28):
Like I do like I'm body positive. Like I said,
all my friends are all it comes to all different
shapes and sizes.

Speaker 2 (01:07:34):
They know what I look like, I know what they
look like, like I.

Speaker 6 (01:07:37):
Think, like one of my birthdays.

Speaker 5 (01:07:40):
On the trip, my theme was, I think for our
beach day, I was just like snap backs and speedos
and every body ordered to speedo.

Speaker 6 (01:07:49):
All my friends don't go to the gym and they know.

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
That, but everybody ordered to speedo.

Speaker 5 (01:07:53):
Everybody was on board for the team, and we just
all celebrate each other like it's just us. We know
we all look like and whatever, scar imperfection or it
like that. Like even if they'd be like, okay, I'm
gonna take a picture, you know, everybody started to feel
myself at a little bit a little drink, you start
to feel your little beat and that right, like okay,
I got a scar right here, so get me from
this side because I don't want people to see the scar.
But hey, but you know I got my friends to

(01:08:15):
put on the speed though. I was happy about that
because that's something they would never ever do. But they
did it for me and they were happy about it,
Like they took their time to pick out what they
wanted to try it on different ones, saw what their.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
Sizes were and everything like that. So that's the type
of person I am.

Speaker 5 (01:08:30):
Like, we're going to celebrate your body, whatever body type
it is, and like we're going to feel good about it,
you know, like and not worry about what other people
may think and so forth. You're gonna walk into confidence
of your body and a body that you have. I'm
always going to celebrate my friends before. That's why I
like me getting compliments on my body.

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
Okay, thank you, and I just move on.

Speaker 5 (01:08:49):
And but I'm gonna hype up my friends with someone
that feels a little bit indifferent about their particular body.
Like if I see someone on a treadmill that is
bigger than me and they're running and I'm just over
here doing a low speed little walk, I'm looking at them.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
Like you get it. You get it for the both
of us because I'm not gonna I'm not turning the
speed up. I'm not gonna run. You can do that
and I can.

Speaker 6 (01:09:12):
So that's the type of person I am.

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
That's what's up thanks for sticking with Hella Black, Hella Queer. Hello, Christian,
So I think we can actually move into the rapid
fire benediction. So we just got about eight or nine

(01:09:37):
questions here. We're gonna put out the question and it's
going to be rapid fire. Whatever comes is the answer
that you get. So we're gonna go Henry Jason Monty,
and then I'll close it out.

Speaker 4 (01:09:50):
What are you looking forward to waking up tomorrow?

Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
Oh? What I'm looking for to getting this money. That's
what I'm forward to in making community, uh peace.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
I'm looking forward to what this new decade holds for me.
Mm hmm. What is one thing that you like about yourself?

Speaker 3 (01:10:11):
My beard is lit as a motherfucker. But I'll tell
you I have worked hard for this, bitch. My beard
is lit.

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
I am really jealous of your beard because it is very.

Speaker 4 (01:10:22):
Like to grow my beard. I get oil.

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
In DC actually ship. I make sure you're sing my
social medias and everything. One thing one things that I
like about myself. I like that enabled my ability to
emphasize in host space and to emphathize with others in
host space for different experiences. I feel so I feel

(01:10:48):
as though that's like one of the most beautiful qualities
about myself. What I like about myself.

Speaker 6 (01:10:54):
I'm funny and I'm a people person.

Speaker 1 (01:10:59):
I like my femineity. Where are you a year from today?

Speaker 4 (01:11:05):
Oh, hopefully grieving peacefully.

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
Where am I here from today? I hope I'm in
a place where I can continue to thrive in my career,
working on products to lift my community, feeling even more
competent end who I am as you know, more cozy cozy.

Speaker 5 (01:11:27):
A year from today, I plan to have grown recent
eye podcasts, grown my bartending with my two other bartending friends,
and the rest of our community as well within that circle.

Speaker 1 (01:11:46):
And I am thankful for this reprieve from the heat.
It does not necessarily feel like hell today. I can
go like I can. I can go out and I
can have my morning walk. I can go out so

(01:12:07):
like I have my air conditioning sector order so once
it reaches seventy degrees it cuts off to like ideally
save energy and money. And we're finally back at the
place where my air conditioning actually cuts off because it's
just been running because it's just been so hard for
it to reach seventy degrees. So I'm thankful for that.

(01:12:30):
What are you proud of?

Speaker 3 (01:12:31):
I'm proud that I got to New York on my own,
found a job, found a place, no help from anyone.
I did it all on my own. Took me eight
It took me six years to get my own place.
But I found a place in New York, a one bedroom,
a full lass apartment on my own, like no one.

Speaker 4 (01:12:49):
I mean, of course, community, but like Ron, I fought
for this fucking city.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
Thought. One thing that I'm proud of, I'm proud that
anywhere I go in the world, I know how to
make a friend and generate community. And I have a
partner that loves to support me and mirror each other's
values and morals. And I'm just able to build support

(01:13:17):
anywhere I go. And that's a skill that and everybody has.

Speaker 5 (01:13:22):
I am proud of the friendships and love that I
have from my partner, from my friends, the support uh
in which you know, we all how we all support
each other, and also from our families extending and over
to their families and so forth.

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:13:42):
Sometimes recently I call it, you know, gay privilege, because
our families still are active in our lives, they support
us and everything like that and just recognizing that and
being grateful for that, especially with my family Black Southern
Baptist people. Uh so, uh so proud of that, and
just being where I am in my life at this

(01:14:03):
present time.

Speaker 1 (01:14:04):
That's great. So this Sunday, for my birthday, I made
it to in person worship service for the first time
since Easter. So I'm proud of myself for doing that.
What is a throwing for you? What is something that
is tap dancing on your last nerve?

Speaker 4 (01:14:22):
Right now?

Speaker 3 (01:14:28):
They are they are river dancing on my fucking nerves.

Speaker 2 (01:14:37):
That's also a throwing for me. And then also just
all these bills and things and just regressions and fashions.
Just what's going on right now is a huge thwing
for me. It's I'm just all right.

Speaker 6 (01:14:55):
Like everyone else, this kurrent administration.

Speaker 5 (01:15:00):
And in addition to that social media, because I you know,
I feel like where we were with his first term,
it's every it's him the administration all over again. In
addition to reality TV, and it's just like I just
want to see you, like if my friends went out
this weekend and had a good time, Like I don't

(01:15:22):
I don't care about this reality show. I don't care
about this celebrity that I you know, where is my
friend at that?

Speaker 2 (01:15:27):
I know?

Speaker 6 (01:15:27):
Like, that's that's all I'm trying to see at this point.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
Something I can relate to.

Speaker 1 (01:15:33):
So so, like you all have been saying the administration,
but particularly I want to say to the Speaker of
the House, Mike Johnson, I do not believe you are Christians.
I do not believe your Christian witness. I do not
believe any claim the salvation that you have because anybody

(01:15:54):
who has been washed in the blood of the Lamb
would not act the way you act because you are
care and you are crooked. And I'm specifically talking about
how he specifically decided to end the session of Congress
earlier so that a vote wouldn't be had as far
as whether or not to release the Epstein files. This
administration is also a thrown around how they're meddling in

(01:16:18):
like the income based Repayment Plan and how one day
is on, one day is off, one day is back on,
one day is back off, and it's like you have
people that want to do the right thing, but you
all keep moving the goal posts to where people can't
get steady and can't get on like solid ground. What

(01:16:40):
is giving you joy.

Speaker 3 (01:16:44):
My best friend right now is giving me joy. My
best friend has really shown up for me in a
way that like I have not had a friend.

Speaker 4 (01:16:54):
I have a lot of.

Speaker 3 (01:16:55):
Good best friends, but like one of my best friends,
one of my best friends here in New York, one
of them has been really really been a safe place
that I think I've just never had with like a
close local friend, like he has just been like everything.
And it's nice to have a friendship that actually feels

(01:17:15):
healthy and safe and someone sees me and gives me
permission to have boundaries.

Speaker 4 (01:17:21):
And I love my best friend. I'm so grateful for that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
I will also say my good friends, my good Judy's,
my best friends are giving me joy. They've always come
around and support me anything that I do. An you
have my ideas and listening host space. We have a
lot of things planned for the community coming up in
the next few months. It's gonna be so much fun.
So just looking forward to looking forward to creating my memories,

(01:17:52):
my art and just have a bomb ass time for me.
My two puppies.

Speaker 6 (01:18:02):
That have been whining because this entire time bring me joy.

Speaker 5 (01:18:07):
So at this present time, they'll get on my nerves
a little bit and a little bit since I left
them out.

Speaker 1 (01:18:15):
What is giving me joy? I want to shout out
the Getting Grown podcasts. I want to shout out doctor
Kia and Chef Doctor Jade. So it's a black woman
centered podcast.

Speaker 4 (01:18:36):
It comes up.

Speaker 1 (01:18:37):
It comes out every Tuesday, and I know if I
don't open mouths out loud laugh any other timer than
the week, I know something is going to happen during
the Getting Grown podcast that makes me laugh. Last question,
what is giving you hope?

Speaker 2 (01:18:56):
My cat?

Speaker 3 (01:18:59):
Because I think is like if I didn't have something
to come home to, or something to look forward to,
something to take care of, I don't I don't know,
like I have to be here for my cat, Like
I would feel terrible like if I like I was
not here for my cat. I know that sounds really strange,

(01:19:21):
but like he's the only thing that like man. Thing
is if I don't have to do anything for nobody,
I have to make sure that thing is taken care of.
I think we don't say I have a pet, like
how important it is to care for them?

Speaker 2 (01:19:32):
One thing just giving me hope? And I know I've
been answering stuff like a beauty queen definitely just the
resilience I see within my black queer folks, my community,
and my chosen family. We are pushing through so much
fucking shit, but we through the ship that we've been

(01:19:56):
pushing through. We still show up for each other and
make space, and that gives me, like hope for a
better a better future. So those are things that's giving
me hope right now because last week kind of have
a bit of a we're nervous breakdown about where I'm
at in life and unemployment and stuff, and my friends
were able to literally all my friends are like in

(01:20:18):
this living room. It was like literally came in and say, hey,
I'm like, God, my life's going and they were just
like they were like, girl, we got you. We got you,
Like we're not going to let you fall to and
fall and everything. We got you. Girls. So it was
good just to have like the support this child. It's hard,
it's hard to hear from him. Hard giving me hope.

Speaker 5 (01:20:43):
I would just say black people, particularly you know, black
gay people, just like Jason just said, in the midst
of everything that's going on with the administration, we have
still found ways to still either celebrate each other or
just have a good time in general, when you know,
the administration first started and people were getting laid off,

(01:21:04):
is when I realized people I knew in passing associates like, hey, all.

Speaker 2 (01:21:10):
Y'all work for gover or lot like, you know, because
it's never been a topic of conversation. We have other
things to talk about.

Speaker 5 (01:21:15):
But in addition to that, my closest friends that did
work for the government that we're getting let go, and
they were just like, no, I'm good, I'm fine. You know,
I'm doing this now and I'm doing X, Y and Z,
and some have started new businesses and so forth, and
they're just pushing past and not letting like one thing,
you know, define who they are. And like I said,
still showing up, still at particular functions, still happy, still thriving,

(01:21:38):
still moving.

Speaker 2 (01:21:39):
So I'm just proud to say it.

Speaker 5 (01:21:40):
I haven't met anyone that has either been laid off
by this administration and has like just you know, depression
and anything like that at this time.

Speaker 1 (01:21:49):
Yeah, I am going to say, And particularly living in DC,
I know that I get a lot of proximity to it.
But the way that people are still building community and
the way that people are still finding ways to resist
gives me hope. Okay, well you have reached the end
of rapid Fire a better addiction, which means that we

(01:22:11):
have reached the end or are reaching the end of
another episode of Hella Black, Hello Queer, Hello Christian. So,
before I let my guests go and then listeners will
close out in a word of prayer, I just want
to ask the guess if they have any final words,
any projects that you want to highlight for folks? Where

(01:22:34):
can folks find you? And then no pressure, because if
you don't have anything or you don't want to share,
you do not have to. But I do like to ask,
since me and the listeners are going to have a
word of prayer, is there anything we can pray for
you guys for that.

Speaker 4 (01:22:50):
Money stays in the bank. Trying to be rich, but
money needs to stay in the bank.

Speaker 1 (01:23:00):
Yes, And then do you have anything going on that
you want the community to know about or where can
folks find you?

Speaker 4 (01:23:08):
You can find me in social media.

Speaker 3 (01:23:09):
My name is just x Henry on all platforms Twitter,
uh well x uh, Instagram and TikTok. I also have
a toy page called Computronomous c O M p U
t R O N I M S I m U
s is on TikTok and Instagram and Twitter as well.

(01:23:31):
I talk about my toy stuff and my toy life
and whatever toy shoot I got on. And I'm not
knowing this frequently, and I am planning on going back
to writing in a few months. It's time I got
some shouldn't get off my chest, So my work will
be shown on the Bodies dot Com very soon.

Speaker 2 (01:23:50):
For me, the parent of custom me definitely more extrains
of consistent income. Like Henry, I got to be the richest.
I got to be the richest man in the world.
But I need to keep something, you know, because it's
kind of hard out here. There's been the longest bout

(01:24:11):
of fun employment I've been on for a minute, so
it's kind of annoying, and I'm just trying to find
something that fells right in line with me. But you know,
I'm also an entrepreneur, so and where the people can
find me. If you want to see photos and infographics
and sometimes sexy pictures of me, you can follow me

(01:24:34):
on my Instagram at.

Speaker 6 (01:24:41):
Instagram.

Speaker 2 (01:24:42):
M hm, I haven't right here. I got it right
over here because you know, you know, I want to
make sure so my instagram is as told by Jay underscore,
so a I'll spell it out A S T O
L D B y j a E underscore. And I

(01:25:05):
also write for the Body every now and then so
as well. Yes, I have like two articles on the
on for the Body already under my full name Jason
Watler w A T l E r T before l
T before L and for my appicunty any upcoming projects.

(01:25:26):
I have also a podcast coming out. I'm just working
on literally editing it and getting the courage and just
post it. So pray for my prayer for me to
just release my art, because child, I'm kind of like
sizzling away where it taking me a mind to drop
my art. So that if you want to follow, that

(01:25:46):
page is going to the Gathering by j so z
t h E gathering g h G A t h
E r I G B y j a E. No underscore,
just the guys name by j and now saying Joseph

(01:26:09):
all those things. Uh yeah those are things. Yeah, all right,
praise for.

Speaker 5 (01:26:19):
Let's see health and wellness of course, and like everyone else,
multiple streams of income. If you guys want to see me,
my instagram is Monty m O.

Speaker 2 (01:26:33):
N T Y period three two one. That's my my page.

Speaker 5 (01:26:40):
If you want to see or listen to my podcast
with Reese, it's a little R and R podcast and
as a L.

Speaker 2 (01:26:48):
I L.

Speaker 6 (01:26:51):
R A N D R Yeah R Okay podcast And
that's on.

Speaker 5 (01:26:59):
Instagram, I am wherever you listen to your podcast, Apple,
Spotify and so forth, and the YouTube as well as
where our video recording is about podcasts as well if
you just.

Speaker 2 (01:27:10):
Want to watch.

Speaker 1 (01:27:18):
Okay. Once again, thank you all so much for joining
us for another episode of Hello Black, Hello Queer, Hello Christian.
As always, if this show meant something to you, if
this podcast means something to you, like comment, share, subscribe,
that's the only way we're really gonna be able to

(01:27:38):
keep this thing going. And also if you have any
prayer requests, reach out to me Joseph Reeves at iHeartMedia
dot com. And then you can also find me at
Joseph the Them on Instagram, on x and on threads.
And then, as always, I will be sure to put
my socials and my contact information in the show notes,

(01:27:59):
so make sure that you're looking at the show notes
because you never know what goodies I'll have for you there.
But let's all center ourselves as much as we can,
and let's end this show by going to God in prayer.
Did God?

Speaker 2 (01:28:13):
I love you?

Speaker 1 (01:28:16):
Did God? We love you. Dear Jesus, we love you,
precious and wonderful Holy Spirit. We love you. And Dear God,
we thank you in all three of your persons for
allowing us to see this point in time, allowing us
to see this day, for allowing us to have another
episode together. Thank you for Manti, Thank you for Jason,

(01:28:43):
Thank you for Henry. Thank you for their lived experience,
thank you for their knowledge, thank you for their wisdom.
And Lord, we just come praying for additional streams of
income to open up. Whatever income was lost, replace it tenfold.

(01:29:05):
Where there is need for peace granted, Where there is
need for healing granted. Where there is need for rest granted.
And Lord, we lift up the black gay community in God,

(01:29:26):
just let us get to a place where we can
see each other beyond a superficial and where everybody can
be celebrated. All of this I pray in your sweet
and precious name, Jesus, because Jesus, your name means so
much to me. In the name of Jesus Christ, I
pray Amen, Amen and amen. So until next time, take

(01:29:51):
care of yourself, take care of each other, and I
look forward to being able to experience another episode of
Hella Black, Hella Queer, Hello Christian, with you Real soon.
Hella Black, Hello Queer, Hello Christian is a production of
iHeartMedia on the Outspoken Slate, which seeks to amplify LGBTQ

(01:30:14):
voices in podcasting. I am your host and executive creative
producer Joseph Freese, along with Gabrielle Collins, who also serves
as executive producer. Dylan Youer is a producer. Trevor is
our lead producer and editor.

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