December 1, 2025 • 10 mins
Kevin Cirilli sits down with Matt Swayne, co-founder of The Quantum Insider, to explore how quantum computing could disrupt cryptocurrency and modern encryption systems. They break down the real risks of quantum computers cracking today’s cryptographic standards, the uncertain timeline for quantum threats, and the steps government and industry leaders are taking to build quantum-resistant security solutions. The discussion cuts through media hype to explain what’s truly at stake, why proactive cybersecurity planning is essential, and how a future of coexisting quantum and classical computing will shape digital security in the years ahead.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I don't know if you've been following all of the
reports that quantum computing could kill crypto currency. I mean
it's everywhere you go. All of the crypto bros and
the crypto traders, they're all talking about is quantum computing
gonna break encryption? Hello Future, it's me Kevin. This is
a dispatch from the Digital Frontier. The year is twenty
(00:28):
twenty five. The planet is Earth. We're not talking about
Y two K. We're talking about quantum computing. My name
is still Kevin SURREALI my guest today. Thrilled to have
him back on the program. He is the co founder
of the quantuminsider dot com. His name is Matt Swain,
the go to source folks on quantum computing. Really really
thrilled to have him back on the show. So Matt,
(00:51):
first of all, thanks for being here. I've been seeing
all of these reports on Bloomberg and on CNBC, and candidly,
I think the coverage is a little bit reductive because
I think that these financial institutions have been working with
the various government agencies and the government to manage the
risk of becoming quantum resistant. But will quantum computing kill cryptocurrency.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Wow, that is a huge question. So the trajectory that
we're on now, I would say that if a quantum
computer fault tolerant that was able to crack those cryptographic
codes was created tomorrow, we would be in trouble. But
I think we have enough time to strengthen that security.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Okay, So that makes me feel good. But so quantum
computing is this supercomputing thing that we're I mean, what five, ten,
fifteen years away from How far away is quantum computing
from really impacting the cryptocurrency markets.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
That's the million dollar question. Nobody really knows. And the
timelines go for the very cynical thirty years to people
that are afraid that it's coming out tomorrow. But I
would say the community of quantum computer experts would probably
lean towards about five years.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Five years, okay. And so the other question I have
is how does quantum computing break encryption? And what are
people doing to become quantum resistant. Doesn't it have something
to do with trapdoors or something.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I'd never heard the trap doors, but as I understand it,
one of the things that the quantum computer does is
it can try a lot of different combinations to crack
a code all at once, whereas a classical computer would
technically have to do it serially. Right, So the quantum
computers who sort of calculates things differently, and as it does,
(02:50):
it's able to hack into those codes far more efficiently
than a classical computer, which exposes those whatever type of
cryptographic measures you're using to protect data.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
The trapdoor thing was, it was like, I've read this
analogy and it sounds like science fiction, but essentially, if
quantum computing can be everywhere, all at once, in order
to be quantum resistant, you have to have a trap
door in the system or the algorithm or whatever that
your data can be like a pinball and just keep
(03:25):
hiding from hackers and can just keep escaping. So, if
you're protecting whether it's cryptocurrency for your data or even
like passwords to the nuclear codes, if you're the government
from a national security standpoint, having an ability to protect
your information within a quantum computing especially if the premise
(03:45):
of quantum computing is that it can be everywhere, all
at once, it's probably pretty important.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Right, Yeah, extremely important, And I think your analogy sounds
right to me, But I think the key thing to
understand about protecting data from a quantum computer is just
a simple fact that quantum couter computers, while powerful, are
not omnipotent. And so the things that quantum computers do well,
they do really well. But the way to protect it
(04:12):
is to create schemes to protect your data that quantum
computers don't do well. Like I think they talk about
lattice mathematics. I will not get into that, right.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah, because I'm like you stump me, boss, I have
no clue what you're talking about. I was kind of
back on that show from when I was a kid,
like an obstacle course? Is that what you're saying, to
create an obstacle course for the quantum computer to go
through in order to access your data? Like that show
when I was a kid where they had the pyramid,
you know at the end where you had.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
To race up it. Yeah, I mean I think that's
that's one way to describe it.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Sure, so explain it then, yeah, help me understand. So
if so, if you're the US government and you're using
a quantum computer to guard the nuclear codes, and you
want to make sure that China or Russia can't hack
in your quantum computing nuclear code system, because quantum computers
can be everywhere, all at once. How do you solve it?
And by the way, folks, we're talking about the nuclear codes,
(05:06):
but I don't know, we could also be talking about
your banking personal data. How do you become quantum resistant?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, that's a great question. And I'm not a cryptographic expert,
but NIST is actually looking into creating schemes that are
quantum resistant, in other words, that they are different in
that the quantum computer cannot solve them easily.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
That's the National Institute of Standards and Technology NIST, National
Institute of Standards and Technology.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Okay, so they are working on algorithms right now, and
as to how they actually work, it's pretty complicated to describe.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Which is kind of good. I mean, I feel good
that people are thinking of ways to kind of do this.
I remember when I was a kid, everybody was nervous
about Y two K and how everyone's nervous that quantum
computers are going to figure out the markets or the
gambling with lottery numbers. It's like that show Loss where
Hurley knew that saw the numbers everywhere to the lottery
(06:03):
when he was on the island.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Let me just talk about one thing that I think
it's important to talk about quantum cryptography is this hack now,
decrypt later status where they could hack your data now
and it would still remain encrypted, but then they could
use a quantum computer to decrypt it later. So that
makes this very important right now to consider, where we
(06:30):
have to wait for it to happen.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
That would be like pirates finding the treasure chest, stealing
your treasure chest, not being able to unlock it, but
then coming up with a way to hack it once
they get the technology to open the treasure chest.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Right, that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
That's crazy that Matt Swain, co founder of the Quantumincider
dot com. I never considered that, and that's wild to me.
So all the data that people steal, even if they
don't know how to use it or what to do
with it, they could just be waiting to get a
quantum computer. It's like they're having a battle in the future,
which is crazy. Okay, I want to pivot it to
(07:12):
a little more optimistic. When I hear the word quantum computer,
I think of a personal computer on my desk. But
a lot of smart people have told me that it's
not that. It's more of something that will be almost
as if it's a generator or a big electric thing
in a city, and no, Chicago is experimenting with building one.
A lot of different universities are also building them, obviously
(07:35):
tech companies are. But fast forward fifty years in the future.
Will a quantum computer be an everyday appliance in the
American home and what will people use it for?
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I would say the consensus is there probably won't be
a personal quantum computer, only because you don't need it.
Like you probably don't need it to run a video
that you want to want watched, to use email, to
text somebody something, So you probably won't need it for
those personal things. But there's other ways to connect with
(08:11):
a quantum computer if you did, and so think of Really,
to me, the model that works best is this hybrid
quantum classical, where classical computers do what they're good at
it and quantum computers do good at what they're at
and it's an interface. It's a continuum between those two devices.
And I could imagine one day you have a personal
(08:33):
computer that's connected via the web to a quantum computer
that if you decided on your spare time you wanted
to understand black hole physics better. You could probably use
it to run simulations and have them appear on your laptop.
I could see that model working out a little more
plausibly than others.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Okay, that's kind of cool. I dig that. I was
hoping you were going to say that from like a
health stampoo or something, or if I wanted to make
sure I made the metro on time or left my
house on time, that the simulations would be able to
guide me on the path. And maybe AI is already
sort of doing that. I guess this is still an
advanced technology computing thing. But honestly, Matt, I can't thank
(09:18):
you enough for coming on the show again. And I
really feel every time I talk to you, I make
a quantum leap into the future and I understand it,
and I really appreciate all the work that you're doing.
And I just got to ask, how did you get
into this stuff? Like when you were a kid, were
you how did you first get into quantum.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I've probably been interested in quantum technology quantm computing since
I want to say, the early nineties, but I have
the math skills of a science journalist, so I never
got into the engineering part. So I've always been interested
in reading about it and writing about it, and that's
sort of how I got to where I'm at.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Diddo. By the way, I'm not really good at math.
Thanks man, I really appreciate it. Thanks so much Matt
for coming on and for for talking about I'll talk
to you later.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Nice talking to you, m
I don't know if you've been following all of the
reports that quantum computing could kill crypto currency. I mean
it's everywhere you go. All of the crypto bros and
the crypto traders, they're all talking about is quantum computing
gonna break encryption? Hello Future, it's me Kevin. This is
a dispatch from the Digital Frontier. The year is twenty
(00:28):
twenty five. The planet is Earth. We're not talking about
Y two K. We're talking about quantum computing. My name
is still Kevin SURREALI my guest today. Thrilled to have
him back on the program. He is the co founder
of the quantuminsider dot com. His name is Matt Swain,
the go to source folks on quantum computing. Really really
thrilled to have him back on the show. So Matt,
(00:51):
first of all, thanks for being here. I've been seeing
all of these reports on Bloomberg and on CNBC, and candidly,
I think the coverage is a little bit reductive because
I think that these financial institutions have been working with
the various government agencies and the government to manage the
risk of becoming quantum resistant. But will quantum computing kill cryptocurrency.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Wow, that is a huge question. So the trajectory that
we're on now, I would say that if a quantum
computer fault tolerant that was able to crack those cryptographic
codes was created tomorrow, we would be in trouble. But
I think we have enough time to strengthen that security.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Okay, So that makes me feel good. But so quantum
computing is this supercomputing thing that we're I mean, what five, ten,
fifteen years away from How far away is quantum computing
from really impacting the cryptocurrency markets.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
That's the million dollar question. Nobody really knows. And the
timelines go for the very cynical thirty years to people
that are afraid that it's coming out tomorrow. But I
would say the community of quantum computer experts would probably
lean towards about five years.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Five years, okay. And so the other question I have
is how does quantum computing break encryption? And what are
people doing to become quantum resistant. Doesn't it have something
to do with trapdoors or something.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I'd never heard the trap doors, but as I understand it,
one of the things that the quantum computer does is
it can try a lot of different combinations to crack
a code all at once, whereas a classical computer would
technically have to do it serially. Right, So the quantum
computers who sort of calculates things differently, and as it does,
(02:50):
it's able to hack into those codes far more efficiently
than a classical computer, which exposes those whatever type of
cryptographic measures you're using to protect data.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
The trapdoor thing was, it was like, I've read this
analogy and it sounds like science fiction, but essentially, if
quantum computing can be everywhere, all at once, in order
to be quantum resistant, you have to have a trap
door in the system or the algorithm or whatever that
your data can be like a pinball and just keep
(03:25):
hiding from hackers and can just keep escaping. So, if
you're protecting whether it's cryptocurrency for your data or even
like passwords to the nuclear codes, if you're the government
from a national security standpoint, having an ability to protect
your information within a quantum computing especially if the premise
(03:45):
of quantum computing is that it can be everywhere, all
at once, it's probably pretty important.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Right, Yeah, extremely important, And I think your analogy sounds
right to me, But I think the key thing to
understand about protecting data from a quantum computer is just
a simple fact that quantum couter computers, while powerful, are
not omnipotent. And so the things that quantum computers do well,
they do really well. But the way to protect it
(04:12):
is to create schemes to protect your data that quantum
computers don't do well. Like I think they talk about
lattice mathematics. I will not get into that, right.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah, because I'm like you stump me, boss, I have
no clue what you're talking about. I was kind of
back on that show from when I was a kid,
like an obstacle course? Is that what you're saying, to
create an obstacle course for the quantum computer to go
through in order to access your data? Like that show
when I was a kid where they had the pyramid,
you know at the end where you had.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
To race up it. Yeah, I mean I think that's
that's one way to describe it.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Sure, so explain it then, yeah, help me understand. So
if so, if you're the US government and you're using
a quantum computer to guard the nuclear codes, and you
want to make sure that China or Russia can't hack
in your quantum computing nuclear code system, because quantum computers
can be everywhere, all at once. How do you solve it?
And by the way, folks, we're talking about the nuclear codes,
(05:06):
but I don't know, we could also be talking about
your banking personal data. How do you become quantum resistant?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, that's a great question. And I'm not a cryptographic expert,
but NIST is actually looking into creating schemes that are
quantum resistant, in other words, that they are different in
that the quantum computer cannot solve them easily.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
That's the National Institute of Standards and Technology NIST, National
Institute of Standards and Technology.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Okay, so they are working on algorithms right now, and
as to how they actually work, it's pretty complicated to describe.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Which is kind of good. I mean, I feel good
that people are thinking of ways to kind of do this.
I remember when I was a kid, everybody was nervous
about Y two K and how everyone's nervous that quantum
computers are going to figure out the markets or the
gambling with lottery numbers. It's like that show Loss where
Hurley knew that saw the numbers everywhere to the lottery
(06:03):
when he was on the island.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Let me just talk about one thing that I think
it's important to talk about quantum cryptography is this hack now,
decrypt later status where they could hack your data now
and it would still remain encrypted, but then they could
use a quantum computer to decrypt it later. So that
makes this very important right now to consider, where we
(06:30):
have to wait for it to happen.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
That would be like pirates finding the treasure chest, stealing
your treasure chest, not being able to unlock it, but
then coming up with a way to hack it once
they get the technology to open the treasure chest.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Right, that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
That's crazy that Matt Swain, co founder of the Quantumincider
dot com. I never considered that, and that's wild to me.
So all the data that people steal, even if they
don't know how to use it or what to do
with it, they could just be waiting to get a
quantum computer. It's like they're having a battle in the future,
which is crazy. Okay, I want to pivot it to
(07:12):
a little more optimistic. When I hear the word quantum computer,
I think of a personal computer on my desk. But
a lot of smart people have told me that it's
not that. It's more of something that will be almost
as if it's a generator or a big electric thing
in a city, and no, Chicago is experimenting with building one.
A lot of different universities are also building them, obviously
(07:35):
tech companies are. But fast forward fifty years in the future.
Will a quantum computer be an everyday appliance in the
American home and what will people use it for?
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I would say the consensus is there probably won't be
a personal quantum computer, only because you don't need it.
Like you probably don't need it to run a video
that you want to want watched, to use email, to
text somebody something, So you probably won't need it for
those personal things. But there's other ways to connect with
(08:11):
a quantum computer if you did, and so think of Really,
to me, the model that works best is this hybrid
quantum classical, where classical computers do what they're good at
it and quantum computers do good at what they're at
and it's an interface. It's a continuum between those two devices.
And I could imagine one day you have a personal
(08:33):
computer that's connected via the web to a quantum computer
that if you decided on your spare time you wanted
to understand black hole physics better. You could probably use
it to run simulations and have them appear on your laptop.
I could see that model working out a little more
plausibly than others.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Okay, that's kind of cool. I dig that. I was
hoping you were going to say that from like a
health stampoo or something, or if I wanted to make
sure I made the metro on time or left my
house on time, that the simulations would be able to
guide me on the path. And maybe AI is already
sort of doing that. I guess this is still an
advanced technology computing thing. But honestly, Matt, I can't thank
(09:18):
you enough for coming on the show again. And I
really feel every time I talk to you, I make
a quantum leap into the future and I understand it,
and I really appreciate all the work that you're doing.
And I just got to ask, how did you get
into this stuff? Like when you were a kid, were
you how did you first get into quantum.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I've probably been interested in quantum technology quantm computing since
I want to say, the early nineties, but I have
the math skills of a science journalist, so I never
got into the engineering part. So I've always been interested
in reading about it and writing about it, and that's
sort of how I got to where I'm at.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Diddo. By the way, I'm not really good at math.
Thanks man, I really appreciate it. Thanks so much Matt
for coming on and for for talking about I'll talk
to you later.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Nice talking to you, m
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