September 4, 2023 • 47 mins
Isaac Mizrahi chats with Lesley Paterson about her 16-year journey to get her Oscar-winning movie made, how to rewire your brain to handle rejection and more.
Follow Hello Isaac on @helloisaacpodcast on Instagram and TikTok, Isaac @imisaacmizrahi on Instagram and TikTok and Lesley Paterson on Instagram @lesleydoestri.
(Recorded on August 15, 2023)
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I've also been at the top. I've seen the view
and if you only mean something, if you share it
with other people, if you truly enjoy your work, and
it's never the top where horizon seekers as human beings,
So it's never going to be enough.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
This is Hello Isaac, my podcast about the idea of
success and how failure affects it. I'm Isaac Musrahi, and
in this episode, I talked to five times world champion
professional triathlete and Oscar winner Leslie Patterson.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Hello, Isaac, it's Leslie Patterson here. I cannot wait to
talk to you. You have the best hair of the business.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Oh my god, Leslie Patterson. Where do I begin? Well,
here's where I begin. We have never met before. So
this is the first episode that I've taped of my
podcast where I actually don't know my but I do
know a lot about her. I am a huge fan
of hers, and I think it's a thrilling, thrilling story ahead. Firstly,
(01:10):
her whole career as a triathlete. I mean, that's always
so inspiring to me. Anybody who like makes it out
of bed and you know, like runs and swims and
does stuff like for me, that is like the closest
to godliness, right. But not only is that a big
part of her story, but then she went on to
(01:32):
produce one of the great movies of the past number
of years, all quite on the Western Front, which was
this crazy kind of passion project that she carried for
a very very very long time, and the end results
are so beautiful. If you haven't seen that movie, you must,
because it's an incredibly, incredibly compelling and beautiful and engrossing experience.
(01:56):
And so the story of making it is really really fabulous.
And what's exciting to me is that I have no
idea how it's going to unfold, but really just this
idea of this incredible person who does so many things
that is a thing that I can relate to. So
I'm excited to get into this. Here we go, Leslie Patterson.
(02:24):
Hi Isaac, Hi, Darling.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
I swear you are a beautiful specimen.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I was looking at photographs of you online. There isn't
a bad angle on you.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Okay, oh come on, oh.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Yes, darling.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
And I think to myself, a person with this body, like,
do you measure every single ounce of food that goes
into you?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
I was just speaking to my husband about that last night.
You know, I've been a professional athlete for a long
time and food plays a weird, you know, like role
in my life. You know, I've had a lot of
body image issues and a lot of issues with food
throughout my entire life. To be perfectly honest, So I
guess long way of answering, Yes, I do. And I
(03:11):
think about foot all the time, and and and wait.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I have a quick question before we get started with
all this. When you don't diet, is there one food
that you like, absolutely adore that you're cheat chocolate?
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Chocolate?
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
No, No, but seriously, Isaac, I have, like, you know
how you have those like kind of questions back and
forth each other, Like, hey, like, if you had to die,
what would be the way that you die?
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Mine is to dye of app chocolate.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Any particular chocolate, like chocolate fondan or chocolate ice cream
or what is it?
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Chocolate cake?
Speaker 1 (03:50):
It's it's like a fondau of No, this is very bad.
This is really nasty white chocolate, proper chocolate.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Wow, that is amazing.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Oh I love to know that. I don't know why
I love knowing that so much. All right, So let's
talk about your history. You come from Scotland, you were
born there and you were raised there.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah, so I was born there. I spent most of
my life up until the age of about twenty one.
That's when I moved out to California. So I grew
up in the small towns in Scotland called Stirling, which
is like central Scotland between Edinburgh and Glasgow. It was amazing.
My parents were incredible and I was an eighties baby, right,
so it was like you get side, you play in
(04:33):
the mark. I was always one of those girls that
liked to play with the boys.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
So I played.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Football or as you guys hatefully say it, soccer, and
my first board was actually rugby. So I was the
only girl in an all boys team. So pretty much
anything that was difficult, anything that allowed me to be
up in boys, and anything that allowed me to get muddy,
I was all over it.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Right, And so did you go to university? How did
you extricate yourself from Scotland?
Speaker 3 (04:59):
What happened?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Yeah? Do you know? I knew I always had a
burning desire to do something big, and I didn't know
what that was. My parents were big on education. They
wanted me to go to university as with the rest
of my brothers and sisters, and in the UK, of
course we get financial support to go to UNI, which
is amazing. And I was competing really heavily at the time,
and so I wanted to go to a university that
(05:22):
both had a drama program and was big in sport,
and that was down in luf Bro. There's a quite
a famous university called Lufborough and Luga Bruga and it
has both those things. So that's what I went off
to do. I was a drama student as well as
being you know, on a scholarship for sport, which, by
(05:42):
the way, those two don't mesh very well well I know.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I mean, I have to say, as someone who does
more than one thing right in the world, your story
really really resonates with me somebody who's into completely opposite
spectrum things right. Is there some way for you to say, like,
which you love more or what you love the most?
Speaker 1 (06:05):
I feel like I love both equally in very different ways,
and one helps the other in very different ways. So
in order to be a top athlete and the best
in the world, you have to be creative, because you
constantly have to be dynamic and flexible and think of
different ways to reach the top, because ultimately, you know
(06:28):
that top sort of one percent. It takes something remarkable
to get there, and finding what is remarkable takes creativity.
But also as well, I would say that in my life,
the creative the arts have always centered me because when
you are deeply, deeply rooted in sport and sort of
(06:50):
going after something like a world titlele or Olympics, the
behaviors that you get are very obsessive, compulsive. It's a
very insular pursuit. It's very selfish pursuit. And the arts
have always balanced me, you know, taken me out of myself,
given me a different perspective. And so that's always kind
of given me this depth and this dynamic to be
(07:12):
able to navigate the world of sport. And then equally
in the creative arts. Right, it's so ethereal, it can
be so arbitrary, and I'm a creature of habits and
structure that I've created through sport. Not only that it's
all about failure sports, right, yes, and in the creative arts,
(07:35):
if you can't understand how to take criticism, how to
take those no's, especially in the film business, and get
better as a consequence, you're fucked. So they really have
balanced my life out.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I would say, well, I mean one of the premises
of this particular podcast is how you kind of deal
with failure and how it affects like, quote unquote success.
But I would love to know from you what is success, Darling?
What does that mean to you?
Speaker 1 (08:03):
I think it's ever changing, right, isn't it how you
value your life and what's important to you? And I
think when I was younger, it was very much about
proving myself, getting that status and getting that gold medal,
getting that title. So it was a very external thing,
and now success has become a very internal thing. It
(08:24):
truly is about relationships. It's about enjoying my work, finding
fulfillment in the craft, in the mastery of the craft.
So it's a lot more about process and it is outcome.
The outcome ends up being great if you focus on
the process anyways.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Right, But do you suppose that the external world kind
of recognizing you in some way propelled you into this
place where you could actually think of success differently, Like
do you need some kind of revelatory you know, recognition
(09:04):
in the world in order to place yourself back into
the process.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yes and no. I think the trouble is in today's society,
we're comparing ourselves to people at heights all the time,
and most people are never going to measure up, so
how can they find their own success? I think it's
easy for me to say that actus the positionmen, But at
the same time, I've also been at the top. I've
(09:32):
seen the view and if you only mean something, if
you share it with other people, if you truly enjoy
your work, and it's never the top where horizon seekers
as human beings, So it's never going to be enough.
And so you know it certainly as a coach, because
I coach a lot of athletes, and you know, I've
done a lot of life coaching and stuff. That's what
(09:52):
I try and instill with the people that I'm friends
with that i work with, you know, because even when
I've won those world titles, it was like, oh my god,
you know, I've got to do it again. I've got
to do it again. I've got to do it again.
And what's been fascinating is now in this film career,
I'm obviously more mature, but you know, everyone is like,
(10:13):
oh wow, your next film, is it going to be
as good as all quiet, And I'm like, I don't
give a flying.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Fuck, really, don't you?
Speaker 1 (10:20):
No. I mean, of course I'm going to try and
make it as good as possible, but it's so arbitrary
in terms of what comes together to make a film
project successful. And truly, I value all of the moments
that come together to put a film in production, to
make it, all of the experiences along the way, because
I didn't do that in sport, and I regret it.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Right, You know, one thing about us, the things that
we do, they are kind of performance spaced, right, Like
whether it's athleticism, movie making, fashion. I do a lot
of performing and you know, writing jokes and stuff like that.
I know that part of your process, for instance, as
(11:01):
a writer is more kind of inward and you have
to win and you have to kind of celebrate this
process thing. But do you ever think about, like the
rejection that you take on such a regular basis and
how that kind of teaches you in some way? I think,
you know, we've been talking about the word failure and
the word success, but also the word rejection is a big, big,
(11:25):
big getting to us, right.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
You know, I'm married to a psychologist who is also
my partner.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
But yes, he's also kind of good looking. I looked
at pictures.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yes, your husband could totally get it, totally goes.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
So what he taught me, and this was a really
profound moment in my athletic career and my creative career, was,
you know, obviously we know that the brain changes. It's neuroplastic.
It's plastic, which means that you can rewire it. Now,
there's a part of your brain called the anterior singulate
cortex which sits in behind the eyes, and it's like
(12:01):
this in the shape of a sausage, and it actually
it processes emotional and physical pain, right. And what happens
is it gets denser and grows thicker as we deal
with adversity, and therefore it allows us to cope with
(12:22):
more the next time. Right. And so that's quite a
simplistic way of assessing it. But what that did to
me is I was like any kind of rejection that
would come along, I'm like, oh, it's green training. It's
like building a muscle because we have a principle in sport,
which is called the overload principle, where you train really
heard your muscles get you know, stronger after you've recovered,
(12:43):
allowing you to quote with more. That's what happens to
the brain. So that's a really positive thing to take
out of each quote unquote rejection. And that was total
game changer for me because I was like, bring on
the rejection because I'm going to learn something better. Oh
in't that amazing?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
That is really great when you boil it down to
an actual physical thing in your brain grows from.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
This, right, Yeah, that's great, darling.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
While we're on the subject of rejection, can we talk
about the unbelievable process. You're kind of going from being
this incredible triathlete, right like an amazing winner and insane
kind of success, and then just deciding like, oh yeah,
I think I need to make this movie. I think
(13:32):
I need to buy the rights to like this old
novel called All Quiet on the Western Front. Tell us
about that.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
So you know, I, as I told you, studied drama
at university at the same time as being an athlete.
But essentially I was kind of a failure in sport
initially and thought I would go to the Olympics and didn't.
It's a different format of traflon. It didn't work out
for me. And that was a huge kind of like
self reflective moment where all of that passion for my
(13:59):
sport had gone and where was I going to put it?
So at the same time, my husband got a job
in California and San Diego, and so I decided I'd
do a master's program in theater and film just as
a way to kind of rediscover myself, because anytime I've
had a tough moment, I've gone back to the arts.
As I spoke about, and through that process, I realized
(14:19):
I love performance. I just wanted to try everything to
figure out where am I going? What do I love?
And I started to act and just loved it in
San Diego in San Diego, in San Diego, Scottish. He's
English and we met at university in England, so as
I was grammar, he was doing his PhD. So anyways,
(14:40):
we'd just been married a week and we moved out
to San Diego. I was twenty one. We had a suitcase,
each bugger, all money, nowhere to live, like it was
really exciting. It was a chance to kind of, you know,
just go on an adventure, right, and I'd been in
I think i'd been there for like I don't know
ten hours. We flew in the night and I had
(15:00):
my first class, you know, in my master's degree. But
it was an amazing experience. I tried everything I really could,
try to connect with myself, because that's what i'd lost
sight of through all of this failure, so all of
this rejection that we've spoken about in sport, you know,
I'd been funneled down this path. You have to be
this way in order to be a world champion, and
I wasn't that way. So it was a real chance
(15:22):
for me to kind of rekindle who I was. So
that led to me doing acting and all sorts of things.
And I was coming up to Telly, and I met
a guy who was producing and writing, Ian Stokel and
Ian was my writing partner, and All Quiet, along with
the director, eventually ed and we started writing together because
he said to me, Leslie, if you want to act,
(15:43):
you really have to write and produce to your own
stuff so that you have some autonomy over what you're doing.
Made perfect sense, and I was like, okay. So we
started to write together and I found out it was
actually quite good given all my training, and we were
both just reading All Quiet at local b. Barnes and
Noble store it was on sale and we started to
(16:04):
chat to each other. He was in the military previously.
I love war films. I've always been fascinated by World
War One as a landscape because so intense and it's
an opportunity to really investigate people at the most frightened
crossover of the mechanization of war and all of that. Right,
(16:27):
and hey, as a cyclist, I've cycled all over Europe
and every single town has a beautiful statue with thousands
of names all over of the men that died in
World War One, and it's just a huge part of
my life as a British person. So anyways, I was
reading this Bootle and both of us were, my, god,
this is such a good book. It's so poetic, and
(16:48):
nobody's made it recently. And Ian was like, why don't
we find out if anyone's got the rise to it?
And we approached the estate of the author, which is
actually the way that you try and find out about
an option, and literally we just pitched them this is
our take, this is our idea, this is who we are,
(17:09):
and they said, which.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Bana, that's great.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yes for a fee, right, yes for a certain amount
of money. Now, oh well, there's the there's the rep.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Honestly, everything costs money, as you well know, and it's like,
you know, there's a risk to everything. You've got to
give it a go. At that point, this was a
few years into as being there. We had some savings.
Ian didn't have any money, so Simon and I were like, okay,
we'll put up. It was ten thousand bucks, which is
a lot of money when you don't have anything, and
(17:44):
that's like all your savings creep out and we got it.
We had a lawyer negotiate it all and it was
all like, oh my god, we've made it. Ah, this
is unbelieabel and you know, you get right, and of
course you have to adapt the fucking thing.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
So well, yeah, adapt it and then get it green
lit and find a studio and find a distributor.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
I mean it's a lot, right.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
It's a lot. So it was a massive learning curve.
Oh but you know, I mean like hell of a journey,
right in terms of what we've learned along the way,
because ultimately it was sixteen years from and we optioned
it so when it came out. But yeah, so that
was hard. That was a lot of kind of self
reflection to get to the point where it was good
(18:32):
enough to get it out. We had a lot of
people look at it a lot of different you know, drafts,
a lot of different ways. Research was a key aspect of.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
It, right, So sixteen years from the time you got
the first option till when till the premiere.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Yes, right, wow, that is an amazing, amazing amount of time.
And what did you do with yourself in the interim?
We were you still kind of competing and winning things?
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Yes, so you know, my career really took off as
an athlete. So obviously, I mean it took us about
two years to adapt the script in and of itself,
many different drafts, because when it comes to any kind
of adaptation, you're finding your own angle what's going to
update and be relevant. But also with a novel like this,
which is like excerpts of a diary, you're having to
find that narrative drive, that narrative through line that's carrying it.
(19:24):
So when we found the story of the last six
hours of the war and the armistice, we're like, oh
my god. So anyway, we finally got to that place
where we thought, yeay, you know, we've got something that
we think is pretty good. And then it was a
case of okay, how do you put a film like
this together? You know, you're trying to get cast attached
and directors attached, and producers and stereos and everybody saying, no,
(19:48):
we go on these just crazy journeys. Booster's going to jail.
And then, of course, you know, all along this while
you're having to re option the material, which we every year,
you're having to come up with the best part of
ten thousand bucks and say we can still do it. Guys,
you know, how.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Do you not lose faith in all of that? Was
there something burning in you?
Speaker 1 (20:11):
It was like a deep thing in my belly that
I knew we had this take. I knew our script
is good enough. I knew this film should be made,
and it was just a matter of timing. And of
course we lost our faith many times. I mean all
of my family, including my husband at times is like
the fuck are you doing? Like we can't afford this,
and we were remortgaging the house. I was using all
(20:33):
my race earnings to get it. I mean, on and
on and on. Yeah, that is the.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Most inspiring thing I've ever heard.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
You kept writing, refining or finding and showing it to
people and getting notes. How do you know which notes
to listen to and which notes to reject?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Definite flags in the sand that you you are very
passionate about, that you want to stay with, and so
you take on board every single sort of note, and
then you assess it based upon your gut, based upon
their experience and what they're saying, and you have a
really good hard look at yourself in the project and
what's servicing the project, what's going to get it made,
(21:23):
what stays true to all of these things. I'm a
very collaborative person. I get it. It's a business, and
I'm quite level headed.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
We're both labors, so we understand collaboration. Nobody understands collaboration
like a labor darling.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
God, you know what I think, though, Isaac. So much
of it is driven by ego, right, the choices that
people make and how they respond to quote unquote criticism.
You know, they take it often, and it's all about
I need to show my power, I need to show
my worth. I don't need that. I want what's best
(21:59):
for the project. But at the same time, I have
a strong vision and I have it for a reason,
and as long as I can stay true to those
reasons or come points where you have to sort of
shape shift it and change it, and that's okay as well,
you know, depending on does it get your project made
does it not. So I think you just have these
you know, value systems that you live your life by
(22:21):
and that's how you progress.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
I understand perfectly when you say all that. It just
sinks right into my brain. So over the sixteen years,
was there one day where you just went like, that's it.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
I can't stand this anymore.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
I don't know that I ever had that. I had
that I'm over it was. My nature is such that
I always find a way to get something positive out
of a situation. That's why I'm always going to find
a way to say this experience right now is going
to help me in some way. I mean, we had
(22:58):
some very very big lows, and probably the biggest lows
you know, were to do with money. And then obviously
my relationship with my husband, who was not in the
film business when we started and it's now. But he's
an amazing guy. Obviously I wouldn't be married to him,
but he's a cynic, he's a very cynical person. So
(23:19):
to deal with that negativity can be tough, especially when
it's both of your money that's going into this.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Right, So, Leslie, tell me about the last gasp. How
did you raise the money at the last last gasp
of the last option?
Speaker 1 (23:33):
This is totally bananas. So I mentioned to you earlier
that when I was racing, I would often use my
race earnings to pay for this option, because you're talking
ten grand you know a year. So this specific year,
we didn't have any money. You know, we're having a
tough time, and we decided that I would go out
(23:53):
to race in Costa Rica. I was really fit at
the time, and this specific race was coming up a
good chance of winning and that would cover the cost
of the option, which was due in weeks. Bananas. So
I fly out to Costa Rica and the format of
racing that I do. You check out the course of
the day before because it's all off road, it's all
(24:15):
on mountain bikes, right, So I was checking out the
course all on trails and I fell off my bike.
And when I fell off my bike, I broke my shoulder,
which of course I did not know at the time.
I just knew I couldn't lift up my arm right.
It was really fucking painful. And I was in bits,
totally bits, because you know, you're prepared for this race,
(24:37):
you're excited to do it, and of course you've got
this option. And so I sat down with my husband
and this is me, right, I'm always thinking, how can
I make this work? How can I make this work?
So I spoke to my physical therapists and the phone
and he was like, well, listen, I don't know exactly
what's going on, just try not move your shoulder. So
I went out in the bike and I could actually
prop my hand up on the handlebars and hurt right,
(25:01):
But any technical descent down rocks and anything like that,
I would have to walk. Okay, I'm like, well, I
can get through it. I could run. The up and
down motion was not actually painful, it was just if
I lifted my shoulder. So then my husband's like, well,
do you think you can swim? Because it's a mile swim,
it's fifteen hundred meters. So we go down to the
ocean's edge and I guess in the water and I'm like,
(25:22):
hell's till I know this is not happening, Like I
can't lift my arm ap to get my brow and
he looked at me and he says, but Liz, you're
really good at the one arm drill. And I'm you know,
he's got a point, because I was not a very
good summer. When I was younger. We would do a
lot of drills, one of which was the one arm.
We would do lots of like just swimming with one
(25:43):
arm and practicing body and this and that. So I
get in the water and I'm like no, what, like
I could totally do this. So we start the race.
Off I go. I'm like, fuck it, swim in one arm,
and so I get through a mile, I come out
of the water and of course normally I'm in contention, right,
I come out of the water twelve minutes down off
(26:04):
the lead, and I'm put. I mean, I'm put and
off I go on my bike, and you know, I'm
pretty fit. So I'm cycling, cycling anything that's technical. I
have to get off and walk, and I start to
work my way out, work my way out, and I'm like, okay,
maybe I'm going to get an a ponium here, like
maybe I can make enough money. And I get off
the bike and I'm in second position and running my strongest.
(26:26):
So I ended up running into first and winning the race.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
That is crazy. All with the broken shoulder, Oh broke
ITTs are older. It's insane.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
All I know. I am insane. Though. It was almost
like the goal of it, Like I get a kick
out of doing really ridiculous things, you know, if something
is really stupid and till someone tells me there's no
way you can do it, I'm like, game on.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Okay, you know what.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
We need a movie about the making of all Quiet
on the Western Front, and this has to be the
climax of it.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Totally. I tell you, I've been approached by a few people.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Actually, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
So we were talking about this earlier. It's like no, no, no, no,
go back notes, goodbye, we can't meet.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
It's Christmas.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
It's summer, and nobody wants to meet on Christmas.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Ah, what was the yes?
Speaker 1 (27:16):
This was wild. So we had another producer on board
at the time that I've been friends with for a while,
and he was helping us to try and get the
projects off the grind. And we had another director on board,
quite a big one, and nothing was really gaining too
much traction through that, and then Edward Berger and Malta
(27:36):
Greenaire got a hold of our script through our producer
at the time, through his agent's lawyers rep you know,
ten times removed, and they were like, oh my gosh,
it always wanted to do this film. They loved our script.
Would we consider having a conversation with them? And you know,
(28:00):
I spoke to various people because by this point I
had friends in the industry that were kind of in
the know, and they were like, oh my god, Edward
Burger's like super hot property right now. And when we
spoke to him, he just had such a clear vision.
He wanted to do it German speaking, which by the way,
is perfect.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
It's brilliant.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
It was brilliant. But let me say this, it's not
like we didn't think about that. But sixteen years ago
you could not have funded a foreign film to the capacity.
So the whole landscape was changed by this point. But
authenticity has been this huge movement, hasn't it, you know,
in terms of content. So here we have an albeit
(28:46):
East Swiss but you know, lived in Germany most of
his life, German guy, you know, with a very clear vision,
incredibly passionate about the material that it has a great
producer on board with a massive track record. There was
something about it that just felt right, you know, and
so we did everything we could.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
And it was.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Very difficult, very complicated to get out of contracts in
other contracts. It was a lot of fucking money. It was, dude.
It was the most stressful time in my fucking life.
I came out in hives a because I knew it.
I just knew that this was our chance to get
it made, and you know, and everything was getting in
(29:28):
the way, and I was calling up everybody to like
make this happen. And it ended up costing us like
thirty five grand and lawyer's fees to like get like
what you know. Anyways, all sorted. We get in bed
with these guys and we presented at the Berlin Film
Market at the beginning of twenty twenty and there's a
(29:49):
bidding war much and you're just like, I knew it,
our script, great producer, German speaking language, everybody was all
over it.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Well, I'll tell you a similar story, which is about
a movie that I made called Unzipped, which is a
documentary about me.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
But you know, we just did it. We just made
the movie.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
I was seeing the guy at the time who was
directing it, and I was working with this woman called
Nina Santisi who produced it, and we just made this
movie and it costed very little money because it was
just us running around and it had like Naomi Campbell
in it and Linda. Anyway, they sent us to Hollywood.
We made a million meetings, blah blah blah. Then Nina
submitted it to sun Dance and it won an award,
(30:35):
and then of course huge bidding war and like we
all knew, you know, we knew it in our gut.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
And that also took a million years.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
And it's a very similar story to like nobody wanting it,
nobody understanding a fashion documentary, what the hell is that?
And so if it weren't for like, you know, Nina
and Douglas and I pulling together all together at once,
you know, it would not have happened. But listen, I
want to talk to you about the concept of fear.
How does it affect your process fear what?
Speaker 1 (31:04):
So? I don't know if this is being Scottish, you know,
sort of Calvinism in me. I have sought out fear
my whole life, and I think it has to do
with suffering, right, And you can't truly have pleasure unless
you've had pain. It's the deficit model. Finding a place
(31:26):
to suffer is all about facing your fears. And our
entire brand, because my brand of coaching, my brand of
an athlete, our company is called Brave Art Entertainment. You know,
it's all about having bravery to face your fears because
that is where the magic happens, when you get that
introspection on life where you face those demons and have
(31:51):
bigger insight and where you have growth. So you know,
I have fear all the time. Probably my biggest fear
in life is missing out.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Right, me too, darling. We were kindred spirits again.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Now this goes back to a thing like when you
were a kid, did you have plans? Did you say, like,
I need to do this in my life. I need
to do this, I need to do this, because that's
what the fear of missing out comes from. It's like,
if I don't get to do these twenty things before
I die, like what a waste of a life.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
I felt like I was special and I felt like
I wanted to do something really special and big. I've
had it since I was young. I don't know where
that comes from. I've really thought about this. I'm one
of four kids, right and I'm the youngest, and maybe
you're always fighting for your place at the table. You're
fighting to be special because you're always the hand me down,
(32:49):
you're always the last one, you know. All of that,
I don't know, but I've had it in my belly
since I was young. I've always wanted to do something big.
So I always feel like, oh my god, if I
don't take up this opportunity, it's not going to happen
for me. And so you do end up just kind
of not being in the moment right and always seeking.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Always seeking, And you know what, Like I'll tell you
because as a European, I think you have a better
basis in the moment. As an American you are trained
to be looking forward. Only you are never looking at
where you are. You are always looking bad, you know,
And I think it is terrible, because like, can I
please just sit here and enjoy this glass of wine?
Speaker 3 (33:34):
You know? But I can't. I just can't, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
And to some extent I enjoy more thinking about what
can happen and envisioning what can happen. By the way,
in order to be courageous, I think you need to
be a huge coward, right, Like you have to be
afraid of every fucking thing, because then, like you know,
getting out of bed is as great a challenge as
(33:59):
you know, face saying, like, you know, three thousand people
on stage with your band, everything is a challenge, right,
That's how I live with fear. It's like a muscle, right,
like resisting fear, like you know, giving into cowardice, whatever
it is, that is a muscle as well. You know
that grows and grows and grows. I have to say
(34:29):
that your movie is the most gorgeous thing I have
seen in a very very long time. I admire it
because of so many reasons, because mostly I'm a very
visual person, and also like the level of violence that
you take. I mean, like, really, unless you had gone there,
I don't think we would have gotten how incredibly what's.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
The word like? It was a turning point in the
history of the world.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
World War one more than World War two, right, more
than the whatever wars that came before, and I think
all quite on the Western front becomes to me this
kind of like this argument for like zero tolerance to
war like work cannot exist. It either exists and we're
all doomed forever, or we have to do something, and
(35:17):
that's a very political, deep thing that we shouldn't talk about.
This is just a compliment because it's the most beautiful
thing I've ever seen.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Oh what I mean? After all the suffering to get
it's done, it made it worthwhile not only to see
what Ed had done as a visionary, but to see
the beauty and collaboration when you get all of these
amazing talents that come together to build that level of texture,
(35:45):
everybody from our DP games to the production designers to
Volka and the score.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Darling, the subtitles. Wait, you live in Hollywood now right?
You guys live in Hollywood? And is there an agent
that helped you a great deal or a manager.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
When it comes to kind of producing and navigating career.
I'm a very driven, dynamic person. So of course your
representation is going to help you, but you can't rely
on them. So for instance, we're hoping to shoot a
film in October in Scotland. We have a great director,
we have Karen Gillan attached to star in it. Like
it's a really cool, cool film, right and it's like
(36:26):
every single piece I put together myself, because you have
to fucking fight. Nobody's going to do it for you.
You know. We go for advice to our manager, like
we have great representation. They help us and all the
re all the projects we have going on right now,
it's all being generated by us. It's not really them.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Wow, that's a good answer. I have to tell you now.
I have a question for you. The Oscar that you got,
was that like the greatest moment in your life. Was
that success? Was that outward success that affected you?
Speaker 1 (36:59):
You know? I would say probably in many ways. The
bath Does were bigger really for me. I'll tell you why,
because of course I'm in my home country. I managed
to get tickets from my mom. My mom came to watch,
and we swept the ground with that whole thing. We
got a screenwriting BAF that, like the whole experience was
just a lot more fun. It's a bit more low key,
(37:23):
and that for me was just like, holy shit. The
oscars I find actually kind of tough actually, but it
was hard. It was kind of intense and not actually
that fun.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Well, just getting up that early and you're like, lamb squad,
kind of what the fuck? I know, yeah, but I mean,
is there a special place for that kind of success,
like you know, winning those baf does, winning the Oscar
the world actually saying yeah, this is a beautiful, beautiful film.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
I'm always going to find a way like how can
I improve? What does it mean next to me? And
I'd say with the biggest experience that was the hard
one with all quiet was we were not involved as
much as we wanted to be and it was a
really weird experience to have all of the success. But
then actually, in many ways my failure was the fact
(38:14):
that we didn't get the experience that we wanted. So
we were not allowed to be on set because of COVID,
and after sixteen years of getting this thing off the ground,
it was the most tragic and hardest thing to deal with.
(38:34):
And you know, all of the Germans were amazing what
they came up with, but they did not make an
effort to include.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Us, and that was hard.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
They could have had a bigger effort.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Well, all I can say, Darling is that on your
next picture it probably won't be as difficult and labor
intensive and as much of like a passion project. It
just be like a great thing for you, and you
will get the experience and you will look even more
from that experience than you would.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Have on this movie. Totally, totally Okay. Was there a
role model for you?
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Is there anyone you looked up to, like who've done
a couple of things and you went, you know what,
if she can you know, be a cook and a
blah blah and a blah blah, then I could be
a triathlete and I could write a movie and blah.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Is there anybody you know?
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I've been asked that a couple of times, and I
this is gonna sound totally random. I often envy people
that are content sh because I'm such a horizon seeker
and because I always want more. My role models are
(39:46):
often people that are living their life and they're happy
doing relatively and I even hate to use the word
normal things, but you know, I envy that, Like I
don't have kids that have wrestled with that, Like do
I don't? I you know, all of these things, and
you know, I would say my role models are often
(40:09):
the people in my life that are just like fucking
happy and they're doing their thing and you don't tell you.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
I know because my best friend, missus callman, and she
is this great writer, and she's this great artist, and
she literally sits in her room and listens to Mozart
and she paints right, And I go, that is a
happy person, right. And then every once in a while
she calls and goes, I can't do it. I think,
even to these contented people, fear goes into it.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
Rejection, failure, all of it.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
My favorite saying in life is everybody's fighting a battle
you know nothing about. Just as you know everyone might think,
oh my god, Leslie, she's got this great body, she's
got this, you got that, blah blah, and it's like
we're all fucking fighting her own demons. The trouble is
is almost the more successful you are, or the bigger
striver you are, the more issues you have. And we write,
(41:01):
you know, a lot of our stories, a lot of
our scripts, a lot of the things that we delve into.
Are people that have that dichostomy. You know, the thing
that got them to the top is the thing that
also brings them down.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
That's right, both things, Darling.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
This is the question that I ask everybody, what is
your obituary?
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Okay, so much have something to say about this? About me?
Because I have an issue talking about death, do you, Yes,
very much so. And I don't know if you know
I experienced some tragedy when I was younger. I think
I'm so scared of other people's reaction to death and
(41:45):
that I can't do anything about it. And then also
the missing out right, We'll have done everything I can
possibly do, so that would be why.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Of course, of course, of course I completely understand. Well,
I mean, we don't have to talk about that, absolutely not.
Let's talk about what you've got going on. Is there
something that you'd like to promote on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
There's a book that my husband and I wrote, and
it's called The Brave Athletes Ham the f Down and
Rise to the Occasion.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Calm the fuck down and write.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Down and rise to the Occasions. So what it was
was I was coming back from training every day and
really sort of coming up with these new ideas to
to like, how was my brain working and all these
new approaches to life. And then he would be like, well, actually,
the reason you do that is because of this, this
and this, and he would dig into the science, right,
and so we started to build out this brain mental
(42:36):
model about how the brain works and why we have
thoughts and feelings that we don't like. And then a
lot of the athletes and people that we were coaching
had these questions like about you know, identity or confidence
or you know, body image issues, and so this book
kind of sets out this brain mental model and then
we have a bunch of questions that our athletes asked us.
(42:59):
So while it was made for endurance athletes, we've found
like a lot of directors and actors and performers, people
like most people have read it, and we've sold about
one hundred thousand copies.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
Brave Athlete or Calm the fuck Down and Rise to
the Occasion.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah, so check out may well check it out.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
I will do. I will do immediately.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
No, you need to listen to it.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
You read it, yes, okay, well then i'll listen to it.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Well, I'll tell you a funny story. A lot of athletes,
when they're out training, or they're out running, or they're
out biking, we'll listen to our books because a lot
of people like love my accent and they're always like
mimicking me, you know. And I was out training one
day in Colorado, in the middle of nowhere, and I
come across this girl, and we get chatting. She's like,
what's her name? And I said, Leslie. Parks says, oh
(43:51):
my god, I'm listening to your book right now.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
If that is not like the universe telling you something, Darling,
I love that story. Oh love you. I feel like
I know you. After such a short interview. It's a
good feeling. It's a good feeling.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Thank you, Isaac Let's love.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
This was one of the most kind of eye opening
interviews I've ever done. And in advance I imagined that
Leslie and I had a great deal in common, only
because you know, she's a polymath and I'm a polymath.
And what I loved most about talking to her was
(44:40):
that I now see that as something of an asset,
as someone whose best friends have all been these incredibly consummate,
single minded artists, people who do one thing and just
do it so well, better than anyone in the world.
Those are my best friends, right, like Mark Morris and
(45:01):
Mara Callman and Stephen Sondheim and people that really do
one thing and they do it so marvelously well. I
always felt that being a polymath was something bad, and
when I was a kid, every single one of my
teachers my music teachers, my drama teachers, my design teachers.
Everyone told me that I would have to kind of
(45:22):
narrow it down, but meeting someone like Leslie Patterson really
kind of opens me up and sets me free in
so many ways. And I think for a lot of us,
the future is this kind of poly mathematics. It is
the idea of doing many things and doing them well.
(45:45):
And that was my favorite part about talking to her
and listening to Leslie Patterson. It was such an incredible
joy and I'm so glad that you were with me
to listen to it.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
Darlings. If you enjoyed this.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Episode, do me a favor and tell someone, Tell a friend,
tell your mother, tell your cousin, tell everyone you know. Okay,
and be sure to rate the show. I love rating stuff.
Go on and rate and review the show on Apple
Podcasts so more people can hear about it. It makes
such a gigantic difference, and like it takes a second, so.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
Go on and do it.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
And if you want more fun content videos and posts
of all kinds, follow the show on Instagram and TikTok
at Hello Isaac podcast and by the way, check me
out on Instagram and TikTok at, I am Isaac Mssrahi.
This is Isaac Misrahi. Thank you, I love you and
(46:49):
I never thought I'd say this, but goodbye Isaac. Hello
Isaac is produced by Imagine Audio, Awfully Nice and I
AM Entertainment for iHeartMedia.
Speaker 3 (47:03):
The series is hosted.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
By me Isaac Musrahi. Hello Isaac is produced by Robin Gelfenbein.
The senior producers are Jesse Burton and John Assanti Vis.
Executive produced by Ron Coward, Brian Grazer, Karl Welker, and
Nathan Cloke at Imagine Audio. Production management from Katie Hodges,
Sound design and mixing by Cedric Wilson. Original music composed
(47:27):
by Ben Waltzer. A special thanks to Neil Phelps and
Sarah Katanak at im Entertainment.
I've also been at the top. I've seen the view
and if you only mean something, if you share it
with other people, if you truly enjoy your work, and
it's never the top where horizon seekers as human beings,
So it's never going to be enough.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
This is Hello Isaac, my podcast about the idea of
success and how failure affects it. I'm Isaac Musrahi, and
in this episode, I talked to five times world champion
professional triathlete and Oscar winner Leslie Patterson.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Hello, Isaac, it's Leslie Patterson here. I cannot wait to
talk to you. You have the best hair of the business.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Oh my god, Leslie Patterson. Where do I begin? Well,
here's where I begin. We have never met before. So
this is the first episode that I've taped of my
podcast where I actually don't know my but I do
know a lot about her. I am a huge fan
of hers, and I think it's a thrilling, thrilling story ahead. Firstly,
(01:10):
her whole career as a triathlete. I mean, that's always
so inspiring to me. Anybody who like makes it out
of bed and you know, like runs and swims and
does stuff like for me, that is like the closest
to godliness, right. But not only is that a big
part of her story, but then she went on to
(01:32):
produce one of the great movies of the past number
of years, all quite on the Western Front, which was
this crazy kind of passion project that she carried for
a very very very long time, and the end results
are so beautiful. If you haven't seen that movie, you must,
because it's an incredibly, incredibly compelling and beautiful and engrossing experience.
(01:56):
And so the story of making it is really really fabulous.
And what's exciting to me is that I have no
idea how it's going to unfold, but really just this
idea of this incredible person who does so many things
that is a thing that I can relate to. So
I'm excited to get into this. Here we go, Leslie Patterson.
(02:24):
Hi Isaac, Hi, Darling.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
I swear you are a beautiful specimen.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I was looking at photographs of you online. There isn't
a bad angle on you.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Okay, oh come on, oh.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Yes, darling.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
And I think to myself, a person with this body, like,
do you measure every single ounce of food that goes
into you?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
I was just speaking to my husband about that last night.
You know, I've been a professional athlete for a long
time and food plays a weird, you know, like role
in my life. You know, I've had a lot of
body image issues and a lot of issues with food
throughout my entire life. To be perfectly honest, So I
guess long way of answering, Yes, I do. And I
(03:11):
think about foot all the time, and and and wait.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I have a quick question before we get started with
all this. When you don't diet, is there one food
that you like, absolutely adore that you're cheat chocolate?
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Chocolate?
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
No, No, but seriously, Isaac, I have, like, you know
how you have those like kind of questions back and
forth each other, Like, hey, like, if you had to die,
what would be the way that you die?
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Mine is to dye of app chocolate.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Any particular chocolate, like chocolate fondan or chocolate ice cream
or what is it?
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Chocolate cake?
Speaker 1 (03:50):
It's it's like a fondau of No, this is very bad.
This is really nasty white chocolate, proper chocolate.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Wow, that is amazing.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Oh I love to know that. I don't know why
I love knowing that so much. All right, So let's
talk about your history. You come from Scotland, you were
born there and you were raised there.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah, so I was born there. I spent most of
my life up until the age of about twenty one.
That's when I moved out to California. So I grew
up in the small towns in Scotland called Stirling, which
is like central Scotland between Edinburgh and Glasgow. It was amazing.
My parents were incredible and I was an eighties baby, right,
so it was like you get side, you play in
(04:33):
the mark. I was always one of those girls that
liked to play with the boys.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
So I played.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Football or as you guys hatefully say it, soccer, and
my first board was actually rugby. So I was the
only girl in an all boys team. So pretty much
anything that was difficult, anything that allowed me to be
up in boys, and anything that allowed me to get muddy,
I was all over it.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Right, And so did you go to university? How did
you extricate yourself from Scotland?
Speaker 3 (04:59):
What happened?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Yeah? Do you know? I knew I always had a
burning desire to do something big, and I didn't know
what that was. My parents were big on education. They
wanted me to go to university as with the rest
of my brothers and sisters, and in the UK, of
course we get financial support to go to UNI, which
is amazing. And I was competing really heavily at the time,
and so I wanted to go to a university that
(05:22):
both had a drama program and was big in sport,
and that was down in luf Bro. There's a quite
a famous university called Lufborough and Luga Bruga and it
has both those things. So that's what I went off
to do. I was a drama student as well as
being you know, on a scholarship for sport, which, by
(05:42):
the way, those two don't mesh very well well I know.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I mean, I have to say, as someone who does
more than one thing right in the world, your story
really really resonates with me somebody who's into completely opposite
spectrum things right. Is there some way for you to say, like,
which you love more or what you love the most?
Speaker 1 (06:05):
I feel like I love both equally in very different ways,
and one helps the other in very different ways. So
in order to be a top athlete and the best
in the world, you have to be creative, because you
constantly have to be dynamic and flexible and think of
different ways to reach the top, because ultimately, you know
(06:28):
that top sort of one percent. It takes something remarkable
to get there, and finding what is remarkable takes creativity.
But also as well, I would say that in my life,
the creative the arts have always centered me because when
you are deeply, deeply rooted in sport and sort of
(06:50):
going after something like a world titlele or Olympics, the
behaviors that you get are very obsessive, compulsive. It's a
very insular pursuit. It's very selfish pursuit. And the arts
have always balanced me, you know, taken me out of myself,
given me a different perspective. And so that's always kind
of given me this depth and this dynamic to be
(07:12):
able to navigate the world of sport. And then equally
in the creative arts. Right, it's so ethereal, it can
be so arbitrary, and I'm a creature of habits and
structure that I've created through sport. Not only that it's
all about failure sports, right, yes, and in the creative arts,
(07:35):
if you can't understand how to take criticism, how to
take those no's, especially in the film business, and get
better as a consequence, you're fucked. So they really have
balanced my life out.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I would say, well, I mean one of the premises
of this particular podcast is how you kind of deal
with failure and how it affects like, quote unquote success.
But I would love to know from you what is success, Darling?
What does that mean to you?
Speaker 1 (08:03):
I think it's ever changing, right, isn't it how you
value your life and what's important to you? And I
think when I was younger, it was very much about
proving myself, getting that status and getting that gold medal,
getting that title. So it was a very external thing,
and now success has become a very internal thing. It
(08:24):
truly is about relationships. It's about enjoying my work, finding
fulfillment in the craft, in the mastery of the craft.
So it's a lot more about process and it is outcome.
The outcome ends up being great if you focus on
the process anyways.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Right, But do you suppose that the external world kind
of recognizing you in some way propelled you into this
place where you could actually think of success differently, Like
do you need some kind of revelatory you know, recognition
(09:04):
in the world in order to place yourself back into
the process.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yes and no. I think the trouble is in today's society,
we're comparing ourselves to people at heights all the time,
and most people are never going to measure up, so
how can they find their own success? I think it's
easy for me to say that actus the positionmen, But at
the same time, I've also been at the top. I've
(09:32):
seen the view and if you only mean something, if
you share it with other people, if you truly enjoy
your work, and it's never the top where horizon seekers
as human beings, So it's never going to be enough.
And so you know it certainly as a coach, because
I coach a lot of athletes, and you know, I've
done a lot of life coaching and stuff. That's what
(09:52):
I try and instill with the people that I'm friends
with that i work with, you know, because even when
I've won those world titles, it was like, oh my god,
you know, I've got to do it again. I've got
to do it again. I've got to do it again.
And what's been fascinating is now in this film career,
I'm obviously more mature, but you know, everyone is like,
(10:13):
oh wow, your next film, is it going to be
as good as all quiet, And I'm like, I don't
give a flying.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Fuck, really, don't you?
Speaker 1 (10:20):
No. I mean, of course I'm going to try and
make it as good as possible, but it's so arbitrary
in terms of what comes together to make a film
project successful. And truly, I value all of the moments
that come together to put a film in production, to
make it, all of the experiences along the way, because
I didn't do that in sport, and I regret it.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Right, You know, one thing about us, the things that
we do, they are kind of performance spaced, right, Like
whether it's athleticism, movie making, fashion. I do a lot
of performing and you know, writing jokes and stuff like that.
I know that part of your process, for instance, as
(11:01):
a writer is more kind of inward and you have
to win and you have to kind of celebrate this
process thing. But do you ever think about, like the
rejection that you take on such a regular basis and
how that kind of teaches you in some way? I think,
you know, we've been talking about the word failure and
the word success, but also the word rejection is a big, big,
(11:25):
big getting to us, right.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
You know, I'm married to a psychologist who is also
my partner.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
But yes, he's also kind of good looking. I looked
at pictures.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yes, your husband could totally get it, totally goes.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
So what he taught me, and this was a really
profound moment in my athletic career and my creative career, was,
you know, obviously we know that the brain changes. It's neuroplastic.
It's plastic, which means that you can rewire it. Now,
there's a part of your brain called the anterior singulate
cortex which sits in behind the eyes, and it's like
(12:01):
this in the shape of a sausage, and it actually
it processes emotional and physical pain, right. And what happens
is it gets denser and grows thicker as we deal
with adversity, and therefore it allows us to cope with
(12:22):
more the next time. Right. And so that's quite a
simplistic way of assessing it. But what that did to
me is I was like any kind of rejection that
would come along, I'm like, oh, it's green training. It's
like building a muscle because we have a principle in sport,
which is called the overload principle, where you train really
heard your muscles get you know, stronger after you've recovered,
(12:43):
allowing you to quote with more. That's what happens to
the brain. So that's a really positive thing to take
out of each quote unquote rejection. And that was total
game changer for me because I was like, bring on
the rejection because I'm going to learn something better. Oh
in't that amazing?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
That is really great when you boil it down to
an actual physical thing in your brain grows from.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
This, right, Yeah, that's great, darling.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
While we're on the subject of rejection, can we talk
about the unbelievable process. You're kind of going from being
this incredible triathlete, right like an amazing winner and insane
kind of success, and then just deciding like, oh yeah,
I think I need to make this movie. I think
(13:32):
I need to buy the rights to like this old
novel called All Quiet on the Western Front. Tell us
about that.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
So you know, I, as I told you, studied drama
at university at the same time as being an athlete.
But essentially I was kind of a failure in sport
initially and thought I would go to the Olympics and didn't.
It's a different format of traflon. It didn't work out
for me. And that was a huge kind of like
self reflective moment where all of that passion for my
(13:59):
sport had gone and where was I going to put it?
So at the same time, my husband got a job
in California and San Diego, and so I decided I'd
do a master's program in theater and film just as
a way to kind of rediscover myself, because anytime I've
had a tough moment, I've gone back to the arts.
As I spoke about, and through that process, I realized
(14:19):
I love performance. I just wanted to try everything to
figure out where am I going? What do I love?
And I started to act and just loved it in
San Diego in San Diego, in San Diego, Scottish. He's
English and we met at university in England, so as
I was grammar, he was doing his PhD. So anyways,
(14:40):
we'd just been married a week and we moved out
to San Diego. I was twenty one. We had a suitcase,
each bugger, all money, nowhere to live, like it was
really exciting. It was a chance to kind of, you know,
just go on an adventure, right, and I'd been in
I think i'd been there for like I don't know
ten hours. We flew in the night and I had
(15:00):
my first class, you know, in my master's degree. But
it was an amazing experience. I tried everything I really could,
try to connect with myself, because that's what i'd lost
sight of through all of this failure, so all of
this rejection that we've spoken about in sport, you know,
I'd been funneled down this path. You have to be
this way in order to be a world champion, and
I wasn't that way. So it was a real chance
(15:22):
for me to kind of rekindle who I was. So
that led to me doing acting and all sorts of things.
And I was coming up to Telly, and I met
a guy who was producing and writing, Ian Stokel and
Ian was my writing partner, and All Quiet, along with
the director, eventually ed and we started writing together because
he said to me, Leslie, if you want to act,
(15:43):
you really have to write and produce to your own
stuff so that you have some autonomy over what you're doing.
Made perfect sense, and I was like, okay. So we
started to write together and I found out it was
actually quite good given all my training, and we were
both just reading All Quiet at local b. Barnes and
Noble store it was on sale and we started to
(16:04):
chat to each other. He was in the military previously.
I love war films. I've always been fascinated by World
War One as a landscape because so intense and it's
an opportunity to really investigate people at the most frightened
crossover of the mechanization of war and all of that. Right,
(16:27):
and hey, as a cyclist, I've cycled all over Europe
and every single town has a beautiful statue with thousands
of names all over of the men that died in
World War One, and it's just a huge part of
my life as a British person. So anyways, I was
reading this Bootle and both of us were, my, god,
this is such a good book. It's so poetic, and
(16:48):
nobody's made it recently. And Ian was like, why don't
we find out if anyone's got the rise to it?
And we approached the estate of the author, which is
actually the way that you try and find out about
an option, and literally we just pitched them this is
our take, this is our idea, this is who we are,
(17:09):
and they said, which.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Bana, that's great.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yes for a fee, right, yes for a certain amount
of money. Now, oh well, there's the there's the rep.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Honestly, everything costs money, as you well know, and it's like,
you know, there's a risk to everything. You've got to
give it a go. At that point, this was a
few years into as being there. We had some savings.
Ian didn't have any money, so Simon and I were like, okay,
we'll put up. It was ten thousand bucks, which is
a lot of money when you don't have anything, and
(17:44):
that's like all your savings creep out and we got it.
We had a lawyer negotiate it all and it was
all like, oh my god, we've made it. Ah, this
is unbelieabel and you know, you get right, and of
course you have to adapt the fucking thing.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
So well, yeah, adapt it and then get it green
lit and find a studio and find a distributor.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
I mean it's a lot, right.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
It's a lot. So it was a massive learning curve.
Oh but you know, I mean like hell of a journey,
right in terms of what we've learned along the way,
because ultimately it was sixteen years from and we optioned
it so when it came out. But yeah, so that
was hard. That was a lot of kind of self
reflection to get to the point where it was good
(18:32):
enough to get it out. We had a lot of
people look at it a lot of different you know, drafts,
a lot of different ways. Research was a key aspect of.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
It, right, So sixteen years from the time you got
the first option till when till the premiere.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Yes, right, wow, that is an amazing, amazing amount of time.
And what did you do with yourself in the interim?
We were you still kind of competing and winning things?
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Yes, so you know, my career really took off as
an athlete. So obviously, I mean it took us about
two years to adapt the script in and of itself,
many different drafts, because when it comes to any kind
of adaptation, you're finding your own angle what's going to
update and be relevant. But also with a novel like this,
which is like excerpts of a diary, you're having to
find that narrative drive, that narrative through line that's carrying it.
(19:24):
So when we found the story of the last six
hours of the war and the armistice, we're like, oh
my god. So anyway, we finally got to that place
where we thought, yeay, you know, we've got something that
we think is pretty good. And then it was a
case of okay, how do you put a film like
this together? You know, you're trying to get cast attached
and directors attached, and producers and stereos and everybody saying, no,
(19:48):
we go on these just crazy journeys. Booster's going to jail.
And then, of course, you know, all along this while
you're having to re option the material, which we every year,
you're having to come up with the best part of
ten thousand bucks and say we can still do it. Guys,
you know, how.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Do you not lose faith in all of that? Was
there something burning in you?
Speaker 1 (20:11):
It was like a deep thing in my belly that
I knew we had this take. I knew our script
is good enough. I knew this film should be made,
and it was just a matter of timing. And of
course we lost our faith many times. I mean all
of my family, including my husband at times is like
the fuck are you doing? Like we can't afford this,
and we were remortgaging the house. I was using all
(20:33):
my race earnings to get it. I mean, on and
on and on. Yeah, that is the.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Most inspiring thing I've ever heard.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
You kept writing, refining or finding and showing it to
people and getting notes. How do you know which notes
to listen to and which notes to reject?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Definite flags in the sand that you you are very
passionate about, that you want to stay with, and so
you take on board every single sort of note, and
then you assess it based upon your gut, based upon
their experience and what they're saying, and you have a
really good hard look at yourself in the project and
what's servicing the project, what's going to get it made,
(21:23):
what stays true to all of these things. I'm a
very collaborative person. I get it. It's a business, and
I'm quite level headed.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
We're both labors, so we understand collaboration. Nobody understands collaboration
like a labor darling.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
God, you know what I think, though, Isaac. So much
of it is driven by ego, right, the choices that
people make and how they respond to quote unquote criticism.
You know, they take it often, and it's all about
I need to show my power, I need to show
my worth. I don't need that. I want what's best
(21:59):
for the project. But at the same time, I have
a strong vision and I have it for a reason,
and as long as I can stay true to those
reasons or come points where you have to sort of
shape shift it and change it, and that's okay as well,
you know, depending on does it get your project made
does it not. So I think you just have these
you know, value systems that you live your life by
(22:21):
and that's how you progress.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
I understand perfectly when you say all that. It just
sinks right into my brain. So over the sixteen years,
was there one day where you just went like, that's it.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
I can't stand this anymore.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
I don't know that I ever had that. I had
that I'm over it was. My nature is such that
I always find a way to get something positive out
of a situation. That's why I'm always going to find
a way to say this experience right now is going
to help me in some way. I mean, we had
(22:58):
some very very big lows, and probably the biggest lows
you know, were to do with money. And then obviously
my relationship with my husband, who was not in the
film business when we started and it's now. But he's
an amazing guy. Obviously I wouldn't be married to him,
but he's a cynic, he's a very cynical person. So
(23:19):
to deal with that negativity can be tough, especially when
it's both of your money that's going into this.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Right, So, Leslie, tell me about the last gasp. How
did you raise the money at the last last gasp
of the last option?
Speaker 1 (23:33):
This is totally bananas. So I mentioned to you earlier
that when I was racing, I would often use my
race earnings to pay for this option, because you're talking
ten grand you know a year. So this specific year,
we didn't have any money. You know, we're having a
tough time, and we decided that I would go out
(23:53):
to race in Costa Rica. I was really fit at
the time, and this specific race was coming up a
good chance of winning and that would cover the cost
of the option, which was due in weeks. Bananas. So
I fly out to Costa Rica and the format of
racing that I do. You check out the course of
the day before because it's all off road, it's all
(24:15):
on mountain bikes, right, So I was checking out the
course all on trails and I fell off my bike.
And when I fell off my bike, I broke my shoulder,
which of course I did not know at the time.
I just knew I couldn't lift up my arm right.
It was really fucking painful. And I was in bits,
totally bits, because you know, you're prepared for this race,
(24:37):
you're excited to do it, and of course you've got
this option. And so I sat down with my husband
and this is me, right, I'm always thinking, how can
I make this work? How can I make this work?
So I spoke to my physical therapists and the phone
and he was like, well, listen, I don't know exactly
what's going on, just try not move your shoulder. So
I went out in the bike and I could actually
prop my hand up on the handlebars and hurt right,
(25:01):
But any technical descent down rocks and anything like that,
I would have to walk. Okay, I'm like, well, I
can get through it. I could run. The up and
down motion was not actually painful, it was just if
I lifted my shoulder. So then my husband's like, well,
do you think you can swim? Because it's a mile swim,
it's fifteen hundred meters. So we go down to the
ocean's edge and I guess in the water and I'm like,
(25:22):
hell's till I know this is not happening, Like I
can't lift my arm ap to get my brow and
he looked at me and he says, but Liz, you're
really good at the one arm drill. And I'm you know,
he's got a point, because I was not a very
good summer. When I was younger. We would do a
lot of drills, one of which was the one arm.
We would do lots of like just swimming with one
(25:43):
arm and practicing body and this and that. So I
get in the water and I'm like no, what, like
I could totally do this. So we start the race.
Off I go. I'm like, fuck it, swim in one arm,
and so I get through a mile, I come out
of the water and of course normally I'm in contention, right,
I come out of the water twelve minutes down off
(26:04):
the lead, and I'm put. I mean, I'm put and
off I go on my bike, and you know, I'm
pretty fit. So I'm cycling, cycling anything that's technical. I
have to get off and walk, and I start to
work my way out, work my way out, and I'm like, okay,
maybe I'm going to get an a ponium here, like
maybe I can make enough money. And I get off
the bike and I'm in second position and running my strongest.
(26:26):
So I ended up running into first and winning the race.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
That is crazy. All with the broken shoulder, Oh broke
ITTs are older. It's insane.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
All I know. I am insane. Though. It was almost
like the goal of it, Like I get a kick
out of doing really ridiculous things, you know, if something
is really stupid and till someone tells me there's no
way you can do it, I'm like, game on.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Okay, you know what.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
We need a movie about the making of all Quiet
on the Western Front, and this has to be the
climax of it.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Totally. I tell you, I've been approached by a few people.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Actually, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
So we were talking about this earlier. It's like no, no, no, no,
go back notes, goodbye, we can't meet.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
It's Christmas.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
It's summer, and nobody wants to meet on Christmas.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Ah, what was the yes?
Speaker 1 (27:16):
This was wild. So we had another producer on board
at the time that I've been friends with for a while,
and he was helping us to try and get the
projects off the grind. And we had another director on board,
quite a big one, and nothing was really gaining too
much traction through that, and then Edward Berger and Malta
(27:36):
Greenaire got a hold of our script through our producer
at the time, through his agent's lawyers rep you know,
ten times removed, and they were like, oh my gosh,
it always wanted to do this film. They loved our script.
Would we consider having a conversation with them? And you know,
(28:00):
I spoke to various people because by this point I
had friends in the industry that were kind of in
the know, and they were like, oh my god, Edward
Burger's like super hot property right now. And when we
spoke to him, he just had such a clear vision.
He wanted to do it German speaking, which by the way,
is perfect.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
It's brilliant.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
It was brilliant. But let me say this, it's not
like we didn't think about that. But sixteen years ago
you could not have funded a foreign film to the capacity.
So the whole landscape was changed by this point. But
authenticity has been this huge movement, hasn't it, you know,
in terms of content. So here we have an albeit
(28:46):
East Swiss but you know, lived in Germany most of
his life, German guy, you know, with a very clear vision,
incredibly passionate about the material that it has a great
producer on board with a massive track record. There was
something about it that just felt right, you know, and
so we did everything we could.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
And it was.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Very difficult, very complicated to get out of contracts in
other contracts. It was a lot of fucking money. It was, dude.
It was the most stressful time in my fucking life.
I came out in hives a because I knew it.
I just knew that this was our chance to get
it made, and you know, and everything was getting in
(29:28):
the way, and I was calling up everybody to like
make this happen. And it ended up costing us like
thirty five grand and lawyer's fees to like get like
what you know. Anyways, all sorted. We get in bed
with these guys and we presented at the Berlin Film
Market at the beginning of twenty twenty and there's a
(29:49):
bidding war much and you're just like, I knew it,
our script, great producer, German speaking language, everybody was all
over it.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Well, I'll tell you a similar story, which is about
a movie that I made called Unzipped, which is a
documentary about me.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
But you know, we just did it. We just made
the movie.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
I was seeing the guy at the time who was
directing it, and I was working with this woman called
Nina Santisi who produced it, and we just made this
movie and it costed very little money because it was
just us running around and it had like Naomi Campbell
in it and Linda. Anyway, they sent us to Hollywood.
We made a million meetings, blah blah blah. Then Nina
submitted it to sun Dance and it won an award,
(30:35):
and then of course huge bidding war and like we
all knew, you know, we knew it in our gut.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
And that also took a million years.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
And it's a very similar story to like nobody wanting it,
nobody understanding a fashion documentary, what the hell is that?
And so if it weren't for like, you know, Nina
and Douglas and I pulling together all together at once,
you know, it would not have happened. But listen, I
want to talk to you about the concept of fear.
How does it affect your process fear what?
Speaker 1 (31:04):
So? I don't know if this is being Scottish, you know,
sort of Calvinism in me. I have sought out fear
my whole life, and I think it has to do
with suffering, right, And you can't truly have pleasure unless
you've had pain. It's the deficit model. Finding a place
(31:26):
to suffer is all about facing your fears. And our
entire brand, because my brand of coaching, my brand of
an athlete, our company is called Brave Art Entertainment. You know,
it's all about having bravery to face your fears because
that is where the magic happens, when you get that
introspection on life where you face those demons and have
(31:51):
bigger insight and where you have growth. So you know,
I have fear all the time. Probably my biggest fear
in life is missing out.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Right, me too, darling. We were kindred spirits again.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Now this goes back to a thing like when you
were a kid, did you have plans? Did you say, like,
I need to do this in my life. I need
to do this, I need to do this, because that's
what the fear of missing out comes from. It's like,
if I don't get to do these twenty things before
I die, like what a waste of a life.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
I felt like I was special and I felt like
I wanted to do something really special and big. I've
had it since I was young. I don't know where
that comes from. I've really thought about this. I'm one
of four kids, right and I'm the youngest, and maybe
you're always fighting for your place at the table. You're
fighting to be special because you're always the hand me down,
(32:49):
you're always the last one, you know. All of that,
I don't know, but I've had it in my belly
since I was young. I've always wanted to do something big.
So I always feel like, oh my god, if I
don't take up this opportunity, it's not going to happen
for me. And so you do end up just kind
of not being in the moment right and always seeking.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Always seeking, And you know what, Like I'll tell you
because as a European, I think you have a better
basis in the moment. As an American you are trained
to be looking forward. Only you are never looking at
where you are. You are always looking bad, you know,
And I think it is terrible, because like, can I
please just sit here and enjoy this glass of wine?
Speaker 3 (33:34):
You know? But I can't. I just can't, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
And to some extent I enjoy more thinking about what
can happen and envisioning what can happen. By the way,
in order to be courageous, I think you need to
be a huge coward, right, Like you have to be
afraid of every fucking thing, because then, like you know,
getting out of bed is as great a challenge as
(33:59):
you know, face saying, like, you know, three thousand people
on stage with your band, everything is a challenge, right,
That's how I live with fear. It's like a muscle, right,
like resisting fear, like you know, giving into cowardice, whatever
it is, that is a muscle as well. You know
that grows and grows and grows. I have to say
(34:29):
that your movie is the most gorgeous thing I have
seen in a very very long time. I admire it
because of so many reasons, because mostly I'm a very
visual person, and also like the level of violence that
you take. I mean, like, really, unless you had gone there,
I don't think we would have gotten how incredibly what's.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
The word like? It was a turning point in the
history of the world.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
World War one more than World War two, right, more
than the whatever wars that came before, and I think
all quite on the Western front becomes to me this
kind of like this argument for like zero tolerance to
war like work cannot exist. It either exists and we're
all doomed forever, or we have to do something, and
(35:17):
that's a very political, deep thing that we shouldn't talk about.
This is just a compliment because it's the most beautiful
thing I've ever seen.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Oh what I mean? After all the suffering to get
it's done, it made it worthwhile not only to see
what Ed had done as a visionary, but to see
the beauty and collaboration when you get all of these
amazing talents that come together to build that level of texture,
(35:45):
everybody from our DP games to the production designers to
Volka and the score.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Darling, the subtitles. Wait, you live in Hollywood now right?
You guys live in Hollywood? And is there an agent
that helped you a great deal or a manager.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
When it comes to kind of producing and navigating career.
I'm a very driven, dynamic person. So of course your
representation is going to help you, but you can't rely
on them. So for instance, we're hoping to shoot a
film in October in Scotland. We have a great director,
we have Karen Gillan attached to star in it. Like
it's a really cool, cool film, right and it's like
(36:26):
every single piece I put together myself, because you have
to fucking fight. Nobody's going to do it for you.
You know. We go for advice to our manager, like
we have great representation. They help us and all the
re all the projects we have going on right now,
it's all being generated by us. It's not really them.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Wow, that's a good answer. I have to tell you now.
I have a question for you. The Oscar that you got,
was that like the greatest moment in your life. Was
that success? Was that outward success that affected you?
Speaker 1 (36:59):
You know? I would say probably in many ways. The
bath Does were bigger really for me. I'll tell you why,
because of course I'm in my home country. I managed
to get tickets from my mom. My mom came to watch,
and we swept the ground with that whole thing. We
got a screenwriting BAF that, like the whole experience was
just a lot more fun. It's a bit more low key,
(37:23):
and that for me was just like, holy shit. The
oscars I find actually kind of tough actually, but it
was hard. It was kind of intense and not actually
that fun.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Well, just getting up that early and you're like, lamb squad,
kind of what the fuck? I know, yeah, but I mean,
is there a special place for that kind of success,
like you know, winning those baf does, winning the Oscar
the world actually saying yeah, this is a beautiful, beautiful film.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
I'm always going to find a way like how can
I improve? What does it mean next to me? And
I'd say with the biggest experience that was the hard
one with all quiet was we were not involved as
much as we wanted to be and it was a
really weird experience to have all of the success. But
then actually, in many ways my failure was the fact
(38:14):
that we didn't get the experience that we wanted. So
we were not allowed to be on set because of COVID,
and after sixteen years of getting this thing off the ground,
it was the most tragic and hardest thing to deal with.
(38:34):
And you know, all of the Germans were amazing what
they came up with, but they did not make an
effort to include.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Us, and that was hard.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
They could have had a bigger effort.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Well, all I can say, Darling is that on your
next picture it probably won't be as difficult and labor
intensive and as much of like a passion project. It
just be like a great thing for you, and you
will get the experience and you will look even more
from that experience than you would.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Have on this movie. Totally, totally Okay. Was there a
role model for you?
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Is there anyone you looked up to, like who've done
a couple of things and you went, you know what,
if she can you know, be a cook and a
blah blah and a blah blah, then I could be
a triathlete and I could write a movie and blah.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Is there anybody you know?
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I've been asked that a couple of times, and I
this is gonna sound totally random. I often envy people
that are content sh because I'm such a horizon seeker
and because I always want more. My role models are
(39:46):
often people that are living their life and they're happy
doing relatively and I even hate to use the word
normal things, but you know, I envy that, Like I
don't have kids that have wrestled with that, Like do
I don't? I you know, all of these things, and
you know, I would say my role models are often
(40:09):
the people in my life that are just like fucking
happy and they're doing their thing and you don't tell you.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
I know because my best friend, missus callman, and she
is this great writer, and she's this great artist, and
she literally sits in her room and listens to Mozart
and she paints right, And I go, that is a
happy person, right. And then every once in a while
she calls and goes, I can't do it. I think,
even to these contented people, fear goes into it.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
Rejection, failure, all of it.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
My favorite saying in life is everybody's fighting a battle
you know nothing about. Just as you know everyone might think,
oh my god, Leslie, she's got this great body, she's
got this, you got that, blah blah, and it's like
we're all fucking fighting her own demons. The trouble is
is almost the more successful you are, or the bigger
striver you are, the more issues you have. And we write,
(41:01):
you know, a lot of our stories, a lot of
our scripts, a lot of the things that we delve into.
Are people that have that dichostomy. You know, the thing
that got them to the top is the thing that
also brings them down.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
That's right, both things, Darling.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
This is the question that I ask everybody, what is
your obituary?
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Okay, so much have something to say about this? About me?
Because I have an issue talking about death, do you, Yes,
very much so. And I don't know if you know
I experienced some tragedy when I was younger. I think
I'm so scared of other people's reaction to death and
(41:45):
that I can't do anything about it. And then also
the missing out right, We'll have done everything I can
possibly do, so that would be why.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Of course, of course, of course I completely understand. Well,
I mean, we don't have to talk about that, absolutely not.
Let's talk about what you've got going on. Is there
something that you'd like to promote on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
There's a book that my husband and I wrote, and
it's called The Brave Athletes Ham the f Down and
Rise to the Occasion.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Calm the fuck down and write.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Down and rise to the Occasions. So what it was
was I was coming back from training every day and
really sort of coming up with these new ideas to
to like, how was my brain working and all these
new approaches to life. And then he would be like, well, actually,
the reason you do that is because of this, this
and this, and he would dig into the science, right,
and so we started to build out this brain mental
(42:36):
model about how the brain works and why we have
thoughts and feelings that we don't like. And then a
lot of the athletes and people that we were coaching
had these questions like about you know, identity or confidence
or you know, body image issues, and so this book
kind of sets out this brain mental model and then
we have a bunch of questions that our athletes asked us.
(42:59):
So while it was made for endurance athletes, we've found
like a lot of directors and actors and performers, people
like most people have read it, and we've sold about
one hundred thousand copies.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
Brave Athlete or Calm the fuck Down and Rise to
the Occasion.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah, so check out may well check it out.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
I will do. I will do immediately.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
No, you need to listen to it.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
You read it, yes, okay, well then i'll listen to it.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Well, I'll tell you a funny story. A lot of athletes,
when they're out training, or they're out running, or they're
out biking, we'll listen to our books because a lot
of people like love my accent and they're always like
mimicking me, you know. And I was out training one
day in Colorado, in the middle of nowhere, and I
come across this girl, and we get chatting. She's like,
what's her name? And I said, Leslie. Parks says, oh
(43:51):
my god, I'm listening to your book right now.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
If that is not like the universe telling you something, Darling,
I love that story. Oh love you. I feel like
I know you. After such a short interview. It's a
good feeling. It's a good feeling.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Thank you, Isaac Let's love.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
This was one of the most kind of eye opening
interviews I've ever done. And in advance I imagined that
Leslie and I had a great deal in common, only
because you know, she's a polymath and I'm a polymath.
And what I loved most about talking to her was
(44:40):
that I now see that as something of an asset,
as someone whose best friends have all been these incredibly consummate,
single minded artists, people who do one thing and just
do it so well, better than anyone in the world.
Those are my best friends, right, like Mark Morris and
(45:01):
Mara Callman and Stephen Sondheim and people that really do
one thing and they do it so marvelously well. I
always felt that being a polymath was something bad, and
when I was a kid, every single one of my
teachers my music teachers, my drama teachers, my design teachers.
Everyone told me that I would have to kind of
(45:22):
narrow it down, but meeting someone like Leslie Patterson really
kind of opens me up and sets me free in
so many ways. And I think for a lot of us,
the future is this kind of poly mathematics. It is
the idea of doing many things and doing them well.
(45:45):
And that was my favorite part about talking to her
and listening to Leslie Patterson. It was such an incredible
joy and I'm so glad that you were with me
to listen to it.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
Darlings. If you enjoyed this.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Episode, do me a favor and tell someone, Tell a friend,
tell your mother, tell your cousin, tell everyone you know. Okay,
and be sure to rate the show. I love rating stuff.
Go on and rate and review the show on Apple
Podcasts so more people can hear about it. It makes
such a gigantic difference, and like it takes a second, so.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
Go on and do it.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
And if you want more fun content videos and posts
of all kinds, follow the show on Instagram and TikTok
at Hello Isaac podcast and by the way, check me
out on Instagram and TikTok at, I am Isaac Mssrahi.
This is Isaac Misrahi. Thank you, I love you and
(46:49):
I never thought I'd say this, but goodbye Isaac. Hello
Isaac is produced by Imagine Audio, Awfully Nice and I
AM Entertainment for iHeartMedia.
Speaker 3 (47:03):
The series is hosted.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
By me Isaac Musrahi. Hello Isaac is produced by Robin Gelfenbein.
The senior producers are Jesse Burton and John Assanti Vis.
Executive produced by Ron Coward, Brian Grazer, Karl Welker, and
Nathan Cloke at Imagine Audio. Production management from Katie Hodges,
Sound design and mixing by Cedric Wilson. Original music composed
(47:27):
by Ben Waltzer. A special thanks to Neil Phelps and
Sarah Katanak at im Entertainment.
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