March 11, 2024 • 49 mins
Isaac Mizrahi chats with interior designer and TV host, Jeremiah Brent (HGTV’s “The Nate & Jeremiah Home Project,” “Nate and Jeremiah: Save My House,” “Rock the Block.”) They get into whether Nate Berkus is the mean daddy or the nice daddy, the time Jeremiah was homeless, why a throuple would be stressful and so much more.
Plus, Jeremiah shares the surprising way he feels about his obituary that throws Isaac for a loop.
Follow Hello Isaac on @helloisaacpodcast on Instagram and TikTok, Isaac @imisaacmizrahi on Instagram and TikTok and Jeremiah Brent @jeremiahbrent.
(Recorded on February 20, 2024)
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Who's the mean daddy? Are you the mean daddy? And
is Nate the nice daddy? You can tell me I'm
the consistent.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm a consistent.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Sorry. Wow, that is a really good This is Hello Isaac,
my podcast about the idea of success and how failure
affects it. I'm Isaac Musrahi, and in this episode, I
talked to interior designer, TV host and founder of Jeremiah
(00:28):
Brent Design Jeremiah Brent.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hello, Isaac, It's Jeremiah Brent. You're probably wondering how I
got your number, but I'm obsessed with you and I
can't wait to chat with you. Talk to you soon.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
I am so excited to talk to my next guest,
Jeremiah Brent. It's rare that I admire a younger person
for what they do, But I've been following his work,
following his career for a long time now, and I
really do love everything he does, especially this incredible new
book that he wrote at and I just want to
(01:00):
talk to him for a minute to kind of demystify
the whole subject of how he gets his inspiration and
how he figures stuff out. So, without wasting any more time,
let's dive right.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
In Hi, Happy Tuesday. Where are you?
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I'm in Bridgehampton, Long Island.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
How is that aware?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I love it here so much. I kind of live
here most of the year.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
How long have you had a house there?
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I bought this place around like nineteen ninety four, and
I love it. It's like my sanctuary. It's like a shack,
you know. It's like a complete shack. And it's not
in a lot of land. It's like an acre a
little bit. It wasn't, but it's on a reserve, so
you really feel like it's private. So anyway, since then,
I've redone it a few times.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, I was gonna say, it doesn't look like a
shack anymore. We're on a nature reserve in mon Talk
and we had a snake infestation last time, which I mean,
you know, my husband, Nate, he's not He's the type
of person that likes nature should be viewed through glass
with him. He's not somebody that wants to be out
amongst anything moving. And we had this fountain in our
(02:14):
backyard and first it was like one snake and I
was like, this is super cute and I love nature,
so I was like, look at kids. And then like
two weeks later, there was like nine ten snakes. It
looked like tomb raider. It was really weird.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
I got to say, that isn't exactly a snake infestation.
Ten stakes.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
What would you do if you walked up, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
I would freak out. And here's the really disgusting thing
about me. I would probably call an exterminator because I
am a disgusting human being.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Well, I'll take it a step further, and Nate is
a terrible person. He had the fountain filled with concrete
the next week.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, Wow, that's the dichotomy that I live in. I
would have like nurtured them. I probably started a snake farm.
And by the way, he's not like a proactive type
person with house duties, so the fact that he organized.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Actually took the time to take the snake thing. So
here's the thing I have to say, Jemiah, I know
Nate rather well.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, and I know.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
You from like seeing you guys at il Cantonori every
once in a while with your family, with your kids,
who are actually really well behaved, like for kids at
a restaurant. No, but your kids are so old. How
old are you kids?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
They're eight and six.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Well, so they're better now.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
But yeah, but you know, there's a lot of terrible
fucking kids out there, like.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Pop, Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I have friends and their children are so terrible. I'm like,
what is happening? What's going on? But our kids are
very like They've got beautiful and peccable manners. There've been
people of the world since they were born, and they've
always been included and everything. So you know, they go
to a dinner party, you have to ask three questions.
It's like a rule in our house. You have to
engage in the conversation. You know, there's no.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Disconnect, right, that's a good thing. And I have to say, like,
when I see you guys out, you always look so
different to me, Like right now, you're kind of this
giving blonde, But yeah, I don't remember you as a
blonde darling. The last time I saw you were a
full on, like raven kind of goth brunette.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
That's how I identify. Like, if I'm not dressed like
a lesbian bank Robert, I'm usually uncomfortable. And when we
see you were on the weekend and we're usually in
like a big hat and we're creatures that.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
You're usually in like come to gas On or something like,
you know, some kind of like black wig or I
don't know what it is. You look like Mortitia Adams.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
I'm like, yeah, Poe of Design.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
And I'm always like Nate, Oh, who's that babe? And
then it's Nate, you know, And then who's the babe
with Nate? Oh? And then it's you, you know. So
it's funny. Yeah, all right, So give me a little
bit of history, Like where are you from.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I'm from California, a small town though for like math
and murder in the middle of yeah, gorgeous and me
small gay decorator. I grew up with a single mother
who worked three jobs her entire life. She never stopped.
And then as soon as I turned seventeen, I left
that town and went to San Francisco for college, and
then I moved to LA and was there for a
(05:00):
long time until I met my husband, and then came
to New York and figured out that the whole world
is right here in one city. And I moved and
never looked back.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
But as a kid, I have to tell you this
little story. When I moved into my apartment on Twelfth
Street and I redid the whole thing, and my sister
came over it and she was like, Isaac, Darling, do
you realize the color of your rug the in your bedroom?
It's like a Spanish olive green, you know, yeautiful? And
I go, yeah, what about And she's like, Darling, think back,
(05:31):
and I screamed, it's literally the exact same color as
the carpeting that was in our house when I was
like a little child, you know. And I think to
myself about, like you growing up in this little town
in La Like, were there things that formed you? What
was the period first of all that you grew up in.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
It was like eighties, nineties, eighties and nineties. I mean, listen,
we didn't have any money, so there weren't a lot
of things. My mom when by the time I went
to high school, she'd worked to kind of get us
in the worst house in the best neighborhood so that
I was going to end up in like a gang.
So it was never really things about our home because
it changed so much. But it was ceremonies that I
didn't realize would make such a huge impact on me.
(06:09):
Like my mother, you know, again, no money, but we
would have flowers every Sunday and this one spot on
the dining table in a window, and I remember the
ceremony of that so beautifully, and like there was always
Edda James playing on the weekend, and same with like
coffee in the morning. I always had to take her
coffee at six point thirty in the morning to her
(06:29):
and leave at bedside, which sounds very Cinderella, but it
was lovely.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
So that's what I remember most. But it's funny when
you say that about your dek carpet, because when I
had written my book, the first question I always ask
people was like, if you look back, what's the first
space that you ever really really remember that mattered to you?
Do you remember that?
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I mean I had like a very bad case of
spidal man and Johni's when I was about six or five,
and I don't remember anything before that, So everything before
that is a blur. But I do remember my first
bedroom and how shitty it, how much I hated it
when we moved into this big, old kind of Dutch
colonial house in Brooklyn, and I remember when my mother
redecorated it. I mean, like she was a great decress.
(07:13):
Why she it was like this horrible striped wallpaper and
the worst like shag carpeting. I hated it so much.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
You know, sounds kind of great.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I do remember there was like a cork wall with
like pictures all over it, and the biggest picture on
the whole wall was like a picture of Judy Garland
and it was like this like horrifying, sort of chariscura
portrait of Judy, like crying, remember that picture of her?
Just like tears I now, right, So I do remember that.
What about you? What was your first space that you remember?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
My grandmother she was like three feet tall in Portuguese
and so mean. She was like one of the meanest
people you've ever met, But to me she was so sweet.
She was a terrible mom, great grandmother, right, And in
her backyard she had this massive atrium that my grandfather
had built her. Was not fancy by any means. It
was like plastic in two by fours. But I remember
(08:03):
sitting in that room and looking around and everything she
did was rooted and nurturing and creativity. And I remember
thinking to myself, is this how my grandmother like identifies
as this like a part of her she can't articulate.
I remember the way the door sounded when you slid
it open. I remember the way it smelled. That was
the first place that I ever, like, really loved.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Was there like a color that you associate with that place.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Red. Her car was like a Bordeaux. She was always
in that red. She always had red lipstick on, red nails,
red wall like, which, by the way, now I have
such respect for because it's very hostile. But it was everything,
and it was huge hair, you know, she couldn't see
over the steering wheel.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Eliza Minelli once told me that Kay Thompson, her godmother, Yeah,
lacquered her guest bathroom in New York City with a
specific shade of nail polish that she loved from like
Charles of the Ritz. So she brought like a thousand
bottles of this nail polish and she just laquered the
entire bathroom with this one little tiny brush that came
(09:06):
with the nail.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
I can appreciate. I can appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And it was this fabulous like red color. Kay Thompson,
Darling Kate Toms. So, did you go to design school.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
No, I went to school for marketing and advertising. I've
always been obsessed with home, but at the time I
didn't really realize it was a business you could actually
create for yourself and be a part of. But when
I moved to Los Angeles, I started building furniture and
creating pieces for myself and then for people, and then
it became a bigger business. And then I started working
for larger furniture houses. And then randomly Rachel Zoe approached
(09:36):
me to come work for her. And I'd always loved
fashion and she's like, this income, it'll be great, you know,
you know her, Yes, I.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Do, I do. I made her wedding dress, you know,
I know.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
And she's like, don't worry, you don't have to be
on the show. And turns out I did.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Have a hash well, darling, like what is the kernel?
What's the damn thing that gets you out of bed
in the morning that makes you go like I'm gonna this?
Like do you think it comes from your childhood? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I think it's still the fantasy of how people can live,
you know, when we are growing up again no money,
but we would go every week and I'd go with
my mother and we would look at all these open
homes and open houses in our area because they were
all like little dominos. They all look the same. But
I remember every time walking through and imagining like the
life that I would create for the people that were
in there. There's a window that was forgotten that could
(10:23):
be a window seat, and I'd imagine that moment that
my mother loves with coffee. Even now, the part that
always excites me is first and foremost the fantasy component
of understanding who people are, extrapolating these parts of them,
these nuances that they don't even realize, and I think,
more than ever now, also trying to find a way
to create these original spaces that really hold people. You know,
(10:44):
that's my fantasy. As somebody walks in and says, I'm
never leaving. I want to stay. So I think that
was the kernel, right.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
So can you make a scale drawing? Can you do
things that designers do?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
I can now. I remember when I left rachel Zo,
she was like, you should not be doing You need
to be doing design, that's what you love. I sold
everything I had my preus, like every piece of furniture,
so I could get a desk in my living room
of my home and start my business. And honestly, it
was all trial and error, and I was scrappy as hell.
I took any job. I remember the first project I had.
(11:18):
She's like, I've got ten thousand dollars all in and
I was like, that's great. She goes for the whole house.
I was like the fuck. But I still did it
and I loved it. And I remember the way it
felt when she walked into the house and I was
completely hooked. But you know, I never stopped. I still
don't really stop, which is what my husband always yells
at me about. But that's why I think I have
such an appreciation for books too. You know, it was
(11:39):
travel when I couldn't afford it. It was education and
information when I didn't have it. That's where I started.
And I've always drawn and sketched everything. I sketch every interior,
still in concepts. But once I could finally afford it,
the first person I hired, her name was Beth. She
was a powerhouse. She's like fully educated how to do
(12:00):
everything I didn't know how to do. So I got
very good at, you know, figuring out lanes and how
to put people in the right lanes. And that's really
kind of where it started.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
I got to tell you, it's always so shocking to
me that you know, design a s setes. So many
of them come from Los Angeles because you know, I
always think of Paris or I think of New York
a lot, because there's so much going on, so many
other things. But like, is there something about Los Angeles
that you find really inspiring?
Speaker 2 (12:29):
I think there's opportunity with space and the execution of
creativity there. I feel like people are a little bit
more confident than they have in LA is a funny place.
When I was there, people were excited about young and
upcoming and our industry, the design industry, I should say,
is not known to be like super supportive of young,
raw talent. I think things are changing now, but you know,
(12:50):
for so long it was about that prestige and people
who have been in the business and they've got their reputations.
But LA for me, had nothing but support from vendors,
from other furnish sellers and makers. There was a really
unique time happening when I was there, and I hope
still that what people connected to with me was I
was always passionate. There is no ego with what I do.
(13:11):
I love collaboration in that part of it. But I
do think that LA has a lot of really creative,
interesting people.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Not to mention Darling like Hollywood Regency. I mean that
whole look is so inspiring, and not to mention like,
you know, the adjacency, yeah, and the adjacency to Mexico.
I mean, you've got that rich vein of incredible, beautiful
inspiration right.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
The whole California.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
I mean whole California exactly, the coast top to bottom.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
You can go through five different design aesthetics. That's a
beautiful thing about it. You can ski in the afternoon
and serve in the morning. So I think the same
for design. You've got all these different design styles.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Because when I look at the stuff that you do,
I feel like it reflects that more than it reflects
Like what my friend Robert Couturier does is something which
is a very kind of you know, Frenchy French French,
or like Jeffrey Bill Hubert. You know, it's like everybody
does something that's a little bit different because of where
they come from, I think, and how they saw growing up,
(14:09):
how they lived growing up, and how they express it
in the way they live now.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
You know, I think I'm always kind of reaching for
the simplicity of how to live, you know, and I
think one thing that I've worked really hard at and
I'm still trying to do. I mean, the vast majority
of our projects will never see the light of day
because our clients are so private, but they all look
very different, which is something that I work really hard.
I really don't want to be known for one style, right.
I definitely have my perspective and the way the lens
(14:36):
that I look at things, but I want every home
to look different because everybody is different.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
But darling, so how do you get inside the head
of your person, like, how do you do something that
will please them?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
It's all story for me, and that I think is
the differentiating factor of what I've done and how I've
started because I know what I know and I know
what I don't and the one thing that I do
know is people and how to listen. That's really my job.
And you know, again, it's interesting too because my husband's
a decorator. We have very different ways that we work,
We have very different aesthetics. But for me, I always
(15:11):
start with what I call the soul, and it's this
exercise that's usually the first huge phase of our design process,
and I dive in about where you've been from the
history of you know, I have a series of questions,
we talk through where you want to go, where you're
at now, and then I kind of create this presentation
of sorts that really kind of explains and kind of
(15:32):
illustrates the soul of the space. And that has been
really good for me because it tethers the rest of
the design throughout the process. And it also is this
moment where people that I'm working with look at me
and go, holy shit, you get what matters to us
and what this needs to feel like. And then I
figure out how we make it look right right. So
it's a little backwards's essential.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
But no, no, Darling, it's funny because I got that.
I got a lot of that from your book. Now.
I got that you try to immerse yourself and get
the story and get the juice of the person. Have
there been like favorite clients?
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Well, my favorite project to date had nothing to do
with any of the prestige, But I mean I've had
really fun projects for different reasons. I love working with
Ryan Murphy. He always pushes me way outside my comfort zone.
He really pushes his creatives and I appreciate that he's.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Such an esthete himself. I mean, he realizes exactly what
he wants. Yeh.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Showing him something new is my great pleasure.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
I feel like the biggest homosexual in the world. If
you can please with Ryan Murphy, I.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Know, I feel so seen. The best project I ever
did was Oprah had asked me to redo this homeless
shelter for LGBTQ plus youth in LA and it was
a big deal for me and for a lot of reasons.
I was homeless at one point and the house that
I had moved into after I got myself out of
(16:52):
living in my car was across the street from the shelter,
so I was back ten years later. But I remember
when that whole center was done, walking people through, and
it was another testament to the power of home and
how it doesn't necessarily necessarily have to be yours, but
then presence of home and the fact that you can
come in and walk in somewhere and feel safe and
seeing vitamin I've made these backpacks that had their own
(17:14):
things that didn't sheet. Oh, that was my favorite thing,
because that's what home was supposed to be about.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Of course, you know what, wait a second, you were
homeless living out of a car. Yeah, what you just
thought we would allied over that little tidbit of information.
Tell me everything.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
I had just come out, well kind of not really out.
But I had a boyfriend at the time that I
lived with, and I came home on a Sunday and
he said to me, I love being with you, and
if I wanted to be gay, this is who i'd
be with. But I don't, so can you leave by tomorrow?
And oh, I know which. By the way, he ended
up being as gay as a fanny pack, but we
(17:53):
wish him.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Well. How old were you at the time?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Twenty nineteen?
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Oh, okay, twenty years old are yeah?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Man? And that was it. I was out on my
own in a car. I lived in my car for
quite a while because I just moved there and I
was working and everything. But I was in my car
for six months. Six months.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Wow, crazy man, you slept in a car for six months?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yeah, my little jeep.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
And where did you bathe? Like, where did you eat?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I jumped around at friends' houses and then coincidentally, I
was at a bar, probably bumming a drink from somebody
because I had no money to buy it. And this
group of girls, there's like five of them, we were
all talking and like, oh, where are you living? And
I was like, Oh, I'm living in my car. But
you know, I love it. I'm like, I'm wild and free.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yeah, I love it exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Oh I'm wild and free. And they said to me,
that's not happening. And they actually took me in to
their house. They're my dearest friends to this day, the sisters,
and they got me home and they got my head
right and helped me kind of refocus and realign and
taught me to grow the hell up because I was
such such a mess at twenty and that was it.
But yeah, it was quite an interesting experience.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Why that's fascinating to me. But it's really really so
interesting to me that you lived in the car for
six months. Now, getting back to the whole thing about
designing for people, are there clients that you just want
to kill them and stranglem and what? Tell me?
Speaker 2 (19:13):
No, it takes a lot to make me upset. So
that's good, which is why I'm married in night. No.
I think there's been one client that I had to
fire that was really hard for me because I like
to consider myself somebody who can get along with anybody.
But this project in particular, it just wasn't going to happen.
But I mean, listen, people are complicated, but what I
(19:34):
do is really complicated, just like what I can't even
imagine what you deal with. You know, it's very personal
and in a lot of ways, it is kind of
the articulation of a lot of things people are feeling
and things that they didn't even realize they're feeling. It
brings up a lot throughout the process, insecurities, good things, skeletons.
You know, our homes watch us survive a lot, and
(19:56):
to kind of take that and make sure that people
understand that I'm there protect it. Our industry gets a
bad wrap, so it doesn't help. But I've been really lucky.
I've got great clients and most of them are repeat
clients and that's my favorite.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Right But I have to say it has to hurt
a little bit because I know my husband is not
in the design field at all, and I do all
the decorating in the house, including his bedroom. How about that?
And then of course it's my fault if he hates
something and I have to come up with solution when
he hates something. But you know, it's like even in
his bedroom, he'll like bring in something and I'll be like, darling,
(20:32):
what is that?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
You know it bothers you.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
And I overlook it. No, it's totally fine. So like,
what is the equivalent of that? Like you do this
like pristine, pristine room, right, and somebody brings in. I
don't know what do you hate the most? Like mission furniture.
I'm just trying to think of like everything and everything.
I know I hate everything.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
I figured it out a while ago that once I
set a house, a photograph it right away. I don't
get it because I know when I come back, somebody's
aunt is going to be and an earn on the fireplace.
The art always kills me.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
The art.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
It's like they're like this post it note was from
I'm like, you need your money back, but it's all subjective.
So I photograph it and I get out. It's like
I try not to go back if I don't have
to to see what's happened. But you know, I've been
lucky enough to where when I have gone back, especially recently,
the houses look large of the same. But that's what
he was supposed to do. You're supposed to put their
(21:25):
spin on it.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I think so true. Tell me about taste, Like, how
do you break it to someone that they just have
to sit it out?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Well, it depends. Part of the reason around this book
also is that I am so anti trend. And it's
interesting because obviously my husband and I were on a
network where it's like, let me flip it and twist
it and sell it for you and you can move on.
And so I think with taste in particular, I think
what I'm trying to do is shift the narrative and
the perspective around what we bring into our house. To
your point, everybody's got these three things because they look
(22:03):
online and that's what they see. But you know better
than anybody, like the most important homes that stay with
you in last have nothing to do with how much
people spent or how rich they were, had everything to
do with their perspective and their ability to tell their
story through their space. But I think taste is super
subjective too. I mean, when you talk about like Michael Smith,
for example, you brought up, I have such a tremendous
(22:24):
amount of respect for his taste and his style. I
could never live in it. It's not for me, although
maybe I could. I don't know, it depends, but I
think it's interesting to see, you know, taste is at
the end of the day, like it's like religion, it's
a language. Whatever gets you to that piece and that serenity.
I think we're all at the end of the day
really looking for in our home. I just don't think
that the conversation has been the right conversation for quite
(22:45):
a while. You know, America is very young in so
many ways, which is a whole nother podcast, but I think,
you know, our homes are the same way. You know,
everything that we see on television is very prescriptive, and
I think I'm in a chapter of my life where
I want to kind of swim upstream and change that.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
You can, I mean, it's possible to do it like
one client at a time, But then I'm going back
to this thing where it's like, as a person with
really good taste, who has learned a good deal, who
has seen a good deal, and who can really go
into a room and pact it and really do something magnificent.
You know, it's like, how do you embody that without offending,
(23:27):
without bringing shame to what was there before? You know,
I've been thinking it for a very very long time,
like at some point, It made me really uncomfortable that
the only clients I had were these women at Bergdorff
Goodman who just couldn't you know, they couldn't balance their meds,
you know what I mean, That's was their daily thing.
Like I got to balance it, and I got to
make it to Betty Hallbruysch's office, and I got to
(23:49):
buy the most expensive thing I can think of, you know,
And after a while, I just thought, like, that's just
not what I want to do, Like, those are not
the people that need this stuff, you know, do you
ever think about that all the time.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
I think the sweet spot for me, and especially with
taste and how I perceive things and how I see
things with other people is the collaborative part of it.
You know. I like a bit of conflict. I like
conflict when it comes to design aesthetics.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
I do.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
That's why I married at Virgo and then I can't
even talk about it.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Triple oh no, no, no, no, no no. I have a
Virgo ascendant, but designer. I'm a Libra. What side do
you sag?
Speaker 2 (24:29):
But I love a Lee, I love us sage. We're easy.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Yeah, you're a lot of fun at parties. Darling that's
the thing, Sad. I wait a minute, getting back to
this thing. Do you think media is a big part
of like your outreach, because I know you're like a
big media star, that's a big part of what you do.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
I kind of I've asually between two different worlds. You know,
design television has a terrible reputation in the design industry.
Everybody looks down on it, you know, it's like these frauds,
like it's awful. And then design televis hates into your
design industry because they're like these uptights not be unapproachable.
(25:05):
And so what I hopefully am doing and what I
have tried to do, is show like that connective tissue
between both, which is the idea of translating people's stories
in a really authentic way. I think it's an interesting time.
You know, you can live really beautifully affordably now, which
is an important moment. It's like what fashion went through,
you know, fifteen years ago, and it's like, oh, wait
(25:26):
a minute, but I don't think you have to compromise
on style, Darling.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Give it a minute, Give this a minute, okay, because
in about one second, they're all going to be like
clamoring to have shows.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
You know, I know they love a show.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Yeah, Darling. When I started making clothes for Target, I
was having lunch with this client of mind, this very
very rich and exclusive woman, and she was like, well
that's it. I can't I can't wear your clothes anymore.
I was like, oh my god. No. I was so shocked,
and I was like, okay, well you know X right.
And then like six months later you had car Lagerfeld
doing a collection for H and M. You had Stella
(26:01):
McCartney doing It was literally like two years later that everybody.
And then this woman that worked for me called Banas Serahphore,
who was becoming this her own personality, and she would
being interviewed in Women's and she said, well, not all
of us can have lines at Target. And I thought,
oh my god, like so now I'm doing like I
couldn't believe. It was like turned about three sixty and
(26:23):
then another three sixty.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
You know, can I answer you a question, because you
were on that forefront of that whole movement, were you
ever nervous about that? Like what made you decide to
do it?
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Well? You know, I wasn't on the forefront. I was
the forefront. Sorry, same Darling. No, I mean it, it
was like yeah, and because before me, it was like
you had only examples of disaster, like you had Holston,
you know, or you had like Steven Sprouse, who would
do a promotion somewhere for a moment, get in and out. Yeah, exactly.
(26:53):
I wasn't terrified because at that point I thought I
wasn't going to be in business anymore anyway, So I
thought like, Okay, why not try this? This is actually interesting,
you know, as opposed to just doing everything that everybody
else did and tried to make some kind of like
success to Scandal every season, which is such bullshit. It's like, really,
just because it's huge and ridiculous doesn't make it good.
(27:17):
It has to be good, you know, it has to
be just good.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
And do you think you've had taste from the second
you were born, like as a child, or do you
think it's evolved both.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
I think I was born kind of a bossy old
you know bitch, you know, but and I feel like
so much of it was, you know, absorbed through my childhood.
It was like a rung and a rung and a
rung and absorbed through my teenage and going to Europe
for the first time when I was like eighteen and
like freaking out, you know, and I kept going back
(27:48):
to like Europe. I kept going back to like Paris
and London and those places, and like looking at those
stores with my face pressed to the window of those
like auction houses like a crazy person, and those galleries.
And I don't know, do you think you can teach
someone to have taste?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
No? I mean I don't know. Actually I should say
I shouldn't say that, because, like I said, growing up
no money. But my mother, I remember every time we
would go somewhere, whether it was the mall, around the
corner or on a hike up north, she would always
ask my sister and I to look for something beautiful
and to talk about it. And it was like this
really interesting practice and kind of chasing beauty and how
I define beauty and where I found beauty. And I
(28:24):
will say my mother has always had exquisite taste. I
mean she didn't have the money, obviously, but she had
exquisite taste with everything. The way she composed things, the
way she dressed herself. You know, she was always the
earrings matched to this, She's always done up. You know.
She was the first female police officer in California actually,
(28:45):
and then she went into law later on. She was
a tough cookie, but super elegant. And you know, it's
funny because we had people in our families that had money,
but my mother was always the elegant one. You could
tell when she walked in her room. I think, if anything,
I probably watched her embraced.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
A lot of it. Is she's still with us.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Oh yeah, she's actually great. She lives in Portugal. Now
she's excusing. Well, it's a long story. But we bought
a farm in Portugal, and then I gave her a
house on the farm, and so she retired finally. Yeah,
she doesn't have to work anymore, and she's there.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Oh my god, can I have a farm?
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Can I come on over?
Speaker 1 (29:23):
I would love to have you around. So we talk
about people and their work and their success. And I
always think that failure is somehow like a big tie
into that. So can you think of a failure that
you came across in your life for some kind of
a setback?
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Oh my god, I failed all the time, and luckily
I'm not nervous about it. I always say my mother
has like two sides of her brain. And my sister
and I are either side. I'm like the spontaneous, take
any chance, any risk, and my sister's much more methodical,
wildly intelligent. But everything that I have done or found
myself in is in failu. I mean, when I went
into fashion, I thought that that was going to be
(30:02):
my future and that was going to be super significant
and failed tremendously, and I remember leaving there thinking to myself, Jesus,
what am I going to do? What is this? I'm
going to take this chance with my business and go
from there. And then there's was failures all the way
through it, and I don't know better than anybody. It's
where you learn the most and where you're confronted with
the most. But my biggest realization that I had through
(30:25):
all those failures is that I never had any regrets.
You know, I'm turning forty this year.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Oh fuck you? Oh sorry? Did I say that?
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Well, listen, it's the oldest I've ever been.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
All right, I guess so, I guess so.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
But I don't have a regret, which I think is
fucking great.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Give it a minute. I'm just kidding it perfect. Oh no,
I'm teasing. I'm teasing I'm teasing. That's an incredible thing
to be able to admit. You know, sometimes I think
people are more comfortable with failure than they are with success.
I think failure is much easier to deal within success.
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
For whatever reason, people don't agree that they're going to
get success, And I think that's the interesting dichotomy between
failure and success. I have always believed that I was
going to do something big and that I could get
there and I would figure it out, even when I
was living in a car or bouncing around with two
pennies to rub together. I don't know. I've always looked forward,
(31:24):
and I've always believed in momentum and kind of following
the flow of life and seeing where it takes you
and trying it all because we don't get that long
to do it, so grab everything great.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
So up, there's media that you do, there's this TV
show and not to mention all of the work you
do in the clients. But then there's your social I
mean that's really important too. Does that factor into it?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
It? Does? I mean, listen, I get in a lot
of trouble all the time because my Instagram is like
definitely a little bit more moody, and it's not as commercials.
I think a lot of people would like I have
like a love hate relationship with social media. Yea, you know,
I think it's fascinating and that I've got nineteen year
old twenty year old interns that are referencing you know,
sixteenth century this and that, and it's like you can
(32:08):
really travel the world visually now at your fingertips, which
is so beautiful. But you know, for me, social media
and the way that I can like wrestle with my
obligations to it is it's like a stream of consciousness,
and whatever I share, I wanted to just feel like
it's something that I'm thinking or seeing. But yeah, I
mean people are creating their entire existence on there. You know,
(32:30):
people that aren't designers saying they're design It's just a
different world.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
I know, I know. Wild Do you think you ever
kind of forfeit something in favor of social because a
lot of times I go, Okay, I look ridiculous, I
hate this, but I'm just going to post it, and
then of course it's the thing that gets the most likes,
you know, But do you ever do that.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
All the time. I've never seen a picture of myself
that I like. If I had my way, I wouldn't
be on my social media at all. It would just
be gorgeous images of obscure random spaces and beautiful details.
But that's not going to happen right.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Now, except I got to tell you like you are gorgeous, okay,
and Nate is gorgeous, So there aren't really bad pictures
that you guys can take. Do you think that's a
factor in your success? Do you think people just want
to be around you and that's why they hire you? No?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
I think I don't know about me, but my husband's
great gift is that he like sees people the way
they want to be seen. So when you're around him,
he's fun and he's easy to love. I think when
we certainly decided to do the show, the d HGTV Show,
and we brought our family onto it, I was really
worried about the way people are going to receive it
because we were the first gay family on that network,
(33:39):
and I think it helps it. We're digestible gay, my
husband and I. You know, I'm not too queeny, I think,
which drives me crazy. And what I hate about, like
what's going on but people have been really good to us,
and people have been really supportive, and I hate talking
about myself, which is why this is.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
My worst Well darling, buckle up. Okay, but here's the
thing I read about how easy it is between you
and Nate in terms of like the whole design thing,
Like if somebody doesn't like something, it's a non starter.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Right, Yeah, Well, because I mean, I'm so jealous you
don't have to like argue with your spouse about design.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
No, here and there, I pretend to like something, and
every time in the room with it, I go like
that thing has got to go. I've got to drop something,
got to burn you. Oh sorry I burned. That happened exactly. No,
But I mean you do have this way that you've
negotiated between the two of you in terms of stuff, right,
does it ever just become like too fucking much? Like
(34:37):
shut up? Can we talk about something else? Please? Really?
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Yeah? All the time? You know, like our house, you
don't move a ball without there being a conversation. It
can be really fucking hardcting. But he's still my favorite
person and we have such different perspectives, Like our house
right now is not what it would look like if
I did it on my own, Like, it's not how
I would live if I lived on myself, and vice
versa for him. But we found this like mutual aesthetic
(35:05):
that works, like I see enough of myself in there.
He sees enough of himself and I don't want to
kill myself, you know, living there. But between working together,
we did the show together. You know, we do plenty together,
but we still have a good time.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Is it an open relationship asking for a friend?
Speaker 2 (35:21):
No, I'm not good at sharing neither. No.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I know. Also, I think it's generational. I think like
you might just be at this critical point where like
maybe you don't really see the open thing is.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
But a lot of people have open relationships.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
I'm learning it's like, yes, I'm like, oh darling.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
By the way, I'm not judging. I think it's great.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
No me either, of course, not. I wish get such
a good thing.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Oh no, it seems like too much work for me.
I just met another friend the other day was like, yeah,
we were in a thremble for a while.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
I was like, what thrupple? What the hell?
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Oh no, And by the way, that that that word
is in the OED. Now throuble I'm not kidding.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
How do you just I'd like your part in the throttle,
like just physically, Like how does it work? Like you
all just have like a meeting of the minds. There's
a lot of details for me that stress me.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
I know exactly where there sleep, a lot of scheduling,
a lot of bathroom time scheduling. Now you have to
have three bathrooms.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
That's just a star.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Let's talk about like your kids, but just one second,
like being the kids of two esthetes, is there any
way out? Like do they have any choice in this matter?
Speaker 2 (36:34):
That's funny. I don't know. I mean, listen, I will
tell you I never thought that we were gonna have children,
and I definitely I love the way that our family loves.
You know, those kids, unlike myself and even my husband,
they have no obligation to us. They get to just
be who they want. I don't care. As long as
they're kind and they're honest. The rest is up to them.
You know, our daughter is obsessed with fashion. She has
(36:57):
always been since she was little. She'd sketch is still
she'd made an outfit yesterday and showed me. You know,
I noticed that a table kept getting moved a couple
months ago, and I kept putting it back, and I
finally said to I, go, why are you moving that table?
We already talked about it, And it turns out it
was our sun putting it back where it goes, because
I'm so ritualistic with the way we live, you know,
(37:19):
with the way the lights are at night and the
way the candles are lit, and the morning's different than
the evening that I think it's definitely had an effect
on them.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Do you fear though, because when I was a kid,
they warned us about materialism, like it's not about things,
you know. But then if you watch like Sex and
the City, right, Like she changes clothes every five minutes, right,
and she does not wear the same thing. You know.
When I was watching Mary Tyler We're growing up, she
was Wednesday, so she would wear that red thing with
(37:48):
the skirt and the boots, like that was her Wednesday look, right,
And it recurred through the season. But in Sex and
the City there is no such continuity. And so it
gave birth to this kind of like culture where you
get stuff, you use stuff, you sell stuff. Do you
have a worry about your kids? Like in terms of
the materialism in terms of like them seeing the turnaround
(38:10):
of stuff, you know all the time.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
You know, Nate and I had very different childhoods. He
came from money very different than what I had, and
I think we had an agreement that in our house
it's not really about acquire. There's a lot more require Like,
for example, if the kids want a toy or something,
they have to earn it, and it's usually a week
long and every time we get something, something is donated,
something leaves. You have to participate in the maintenance of
(38:35):
the house. Because the truth is, Daddy's work their asses
off to get here. You're not going to get any
of it. Get to work, and I want them to
understand what it means to participate and to earn and
to value. You know, it's hard enough in this city,
and by the way, it was way harder when we
lived in la You know, you go to birthday parties
(38:56):
and there's custom Nike booths and I'm like, what is happening? Oh,
But being in New York, I will say, you know,
the kids are part of the world. Here it's different,
but that that part of our life you have to
work at because we want them to understand we work
at maintaining this house. You have to maintain this house alongside,
like we're all part of this rhythm and this vibration.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Who's the mean daddy? Are you the mean daddy? And
is Nate the nice daddy? You can tell me I'm
the consistent I'm the consistent daddy. Wow, that is a
really good I guess because my husband is I guess,
the consistent daddy with the dogs.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Yeah, yeah, that's me. And I used to I used
to cry about it at night because I'm like, you're
gonna hate me. You don't do anything, and you're just goofy.
But if they fall, if something goes wrong in school,
they come running to me to work through it. And
the truth is I didn't have that consistency, and it
was really important for me to be waiting for that.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Do you make them just keep one Christmas present and
give the rest to like mean Joan Crawford Mobby.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
No, but I'll tell you this. I mean, we don't
buy them anything for Christmas. We get them one gift
from Sanna, but the rest is like family gets them gifts.
Like I'm not somebody who has like sprawling out all
over the living room floor.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Christmas.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
It's just not I don't like it.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
And maybe you did it for the publicity, maybe just
a little. I'm kidding that, all right. You know, obviously
you think about young people. I think about them too,
and I think about like young artists, and I think
about young designers. Do you have advice for young design people?
Speaker 2 (40:33):
I mean, you just get ready to work your ass off.
Get a notebook. I still think a notebook is like
the sexiest thing I've ever seen when like, I want
somebody to write something down when you're in there rown.
Nothing drives me just sweet.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Duck or just sweet Duck corp. I love a handwritten.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
That's it, like, just write it down a notebook. I
hand them out to everybody here.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Listen.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
It's an interesting time. You have to be really responsible
for the digital footprint that you're putting into the world
and how you're participating in this digital landscape. But because
of that, we've seen people are able to create businesses
in an industry that used to be something that was
so hard to crack into. I mean, when I started
my firm, Nate was this big designer and I was
(41:11):
like bank borrowing and stealing to try to get clients
and it just was a repetition, repetition, repetition. But I
think more than ever, people just have to prepare to
work really hard.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Is there competition between you guys for real?
Speaker 2 (41:24):
No. The fact that I was able to meet him
when I did, which is I just started my firm.
He was, you know, big and famous and just wrapped
his talk show. He always treated me like an equal
with not only with the way I created, but the
way I saw things, with the way we worked together.
He never treated me like anything other than an equal.
(41:45):
And I think because of that, there's just a tremendous
amount of respect. We've never been competitive with each other
that I know of.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
And perhaps it's not that he treated you like an equal.
It's perhaps because you are an you know what I mean.
It's not that it's not him anything particularly. Yeah, I mean,
you're a very good designer. You're a good designer, all right.
So now I do this every time. I do this,
every single time, I ask people about their obituaries because
it is the thing that I am most obsessed with
in the world is my own obituary. Like literally every
(42:15):
single day, every day, I go to the Times and
I open it up and I go straight to the listings,
and it's not going to do for me.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
What would your obituary say?
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Oh? I don't know. You know. The thing I'm so
scared is that I'm going to drop dead tomorrow and
it's going to be like only about fashion, because I
don't want it to be about fashion. I want it
to be about like the entertainment business.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Is it weird that I wouldn't want an obituary at all?
Speaker 1 (42:38):
I don't know. What would you want? Like a rock,
like a steak in the ground? What would you want?
Tell me what you want? Really, you don't want like
anybody to know anything about Jeremiah Brent.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
No, No, I mean I want to answer your question,
but I'm like, I don't know if I really wanted one.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Well, if there wasn't one and they came across the
name Jeremiah Brent, they might think you were like, you know,
some kind of like tree feller, like a lumberjack Dremiah brimmed,
you know, like it does not sound it is. It's
extremely butch butch butch, yes, which is how I describe
Is it like a grinder? Are you like a butch top?
(43:14):
I'm so so exciting.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
It depends on my mood. I think. I think, uh,
I'm so glad by the way that I missed the
whole grinder era. That was not I know. Oh I
would have been so bad, I thought.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
But you never went on. You never went on the
phone thing where you beeped to the next caller. You
never did that, because that was my generation. I love
the phone thing. Okay, go on.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
I was convinced that everybody was going to give me
an STD, so I was not made for any of that.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
I was.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
It's my worst nightmare.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Okay, all right, some hormones didn't rage hard enough for
you to like risk maybe getting the tiniest little STD. No.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
No, I remember there's one person that I met on
Facebook and I ended up dating him, but I remember
like feeling so scandalous and like putting him through like
the most rigorous fashionaire right before we hooked up, and
he's like, what is happening? But yeah, I was not
meant for it. I wasn't a good single.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Oh wow, I love this.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
This is fantastic. My obituary is going to be that
I'm a big butch lumberjack who loved hard and created beautifully.
I guess like that's it.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
That's a good thing. That's a good answer. It's a
really good answer. And by the way, in the hands
of a really good obituarist or something, they'll do plenty
with that. Darling. What do you want to promote on
this podcast?
Speaker 2 (44:28):
My book, which is out today February twentieth. I've been
working on it for two and a half years and
it's been a real labor of love. I remember when
I went to the publishers, multiple publishers, saying I wanted
to write a design book, not about design. Everybody looked
at me like I had lost my mind. But I
did it, and I'm really proud of it, and it's
nice to talk about it and not feel like I'm
selling something but sharing it. It's like this collection of
(44:50):
ten different people who've never left their home. They've stayed
there the whole time, and it's like a collection of
love letters. So I'm excited to.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Share with it. I love it. I love it, and
there are a certain store I love more than other stories, obviously,
But what gave you that idea?
Speaker 2 (45:05):
We moved ten times in ten years, Nate and I
and I was like, what the fuck is wrong with us?
Like why can't we stay anywhere? And I used to
fantasize about people who've lived in the same home, like
I'll never forget walking into Tony Goodman's house for the
first time and you can see every dinner party, every story,
every scratch on the base board, and what it represented
(45:28):
that like for me, is like the sexiest thing in
the world is a home that holds all those echoes.
And I wanted it.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
And that was honey, move Darling. She moved.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
I know I was there her last night last night
before she left.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
So did Wendy. I mean Wendy was like I had
it in her place too. I don't know what went
on with.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Those sisters this year at the same time.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yeah, it was some kind of crazy planetary movement in
their chart or something.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
I think it's good for theological drug me too.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
I think it's incredibly good for people to make changes.
Of course, like I am never leaving my apartment twelve.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
I was just going to say, how long have you
been there?
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Well, I had a one bedroom there since like the
late eighties, I would say since the late eighties of
the early nineties, and then I got the studio down
the hall, which I worked in for a little was
like my private office, and then I got the two
bedroom in between. Then I just put them all together.
So I've been there for like like over thirty some years.
It's crazy since the nineties. Yeah, next book, I mean,
(46:26):
granted it's not on the Grand Canal in Venice like
that incredible story in your book, which.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
Is just it was important for me too though in
that book it's like non exclusionary with I didn't want
it to be a book of rich white people. You know.
It's like Dora, who lives in Sicily, her home was
like one of my favorite bass I've ever seen, with
the pressed doilies and the polished you know what I mean.
It's like it's nice to see home through different people's eyes.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Yes. So your book is called The Space that Keeps You,
The Space that keeps You Right. It's a great title.
It's a great book. Everybody needs to get it. That's it.
I love you, Thank you, Jermiah the best.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
I can't see you what you cant Yeah, probably the
weird black gnome in the.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
Corner, ah right, looking completely different.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
Yeah this week I don't know, Yeah, exactly. Thank you
so much.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
Thank you. One thing that I was so happy to
learn about Jeremiah Brent is how kind of skeptical he is, right, Like,
I don't know why, but I think of him as
this incredibly bountiful, adorable, gorgeous looking easy person. But then
(47:35):
when you talk to him about things, he seems to
be a little bit like the rest of the entire world,
a little hesitant, a little skeptical, right, Like, for instance,
he was talking about his kids and the way he
gives them one Christmas present and they have to earn things,
and I just love that. I think that, you know,
it restores a kind of hope that I have for
(47:57):
the future. And I mean that, you know, I always
wanted to ask him about his kids, and so I
was really really happy to talk about that on today's episode.
And I'm really happy that you got a chance to
hear all that, and I thank you, darlings. If you
enjoyed this episode, do me a favor and tell someone,
(48:19):
Tell a friend, tell your mother, tell your cousin, tell
everyone you know. Okay, and be sure to rate the show.
I love rating stuff. Go on and rate and review
the show on Apple podcasts so more people can hear
about it. It makes such a gigantic difference and like
it takes a second, so go on and do it.
(48:39):
And if you want more fun content videos and posts
of all kinds, follow the show on Instagram and TikTok
at Hello Isaac podcast and by the way, check me
out on Instagram and TikTok at. I Am Isaac Msrahi.
This is Isaac, Missrahi, thank you, I love you and
(49:01):
I never thought I'd say this, but goodbye Isaac. Hello
Isaac is produced by Imagine Audio, Awfully Nice and I
AM Entertainment for iHeartMedia. The series is hosted by Me
Isaac Msrahi. Hello Isaac is produced by Robin Gelfenbein. The
(49:21):
senior producers are Jesse Burton and John Assanti vis Executive
produced by Ron Howard, Brian Grazerkarral Welker, and Nathan Cloke
At Imagined Audio, production management from Katie Hodges, Sound design
and mixing by Cedric Wilson. Original music composed by Ben Wiltzer.
A special thanks to Neil Phelps and Sarah Katanak at
(49:43):
I AM Entertainment
Who's the mean daddy? Are you the mean daddy? And
is Nate the nice daddy? You can tell me I'm
the consistent.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm a consistent.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Sorry. Wow, that is a really good This is Hello Isaac,
my podcast about the idea of success and how failure
affects it. I'm Isaac Musrahi, and in this episode, I
talked to interior designer, TV host and founder of Jeremiah
(00:28):
Brent Design Jeremiah Brent.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hello, Isaac, It's Jeremiah Brent. You're probably wondering how I
got your number, but I'm obsessed with you and I
can't wait to chat with you. Talk to you soon.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
I am so excited to talk to my next guest,
Jeremiah Brent. It's rare that I admire a younger person
for what they do, But I've been following his work,
following his career for a long time now, and I
really do love everything he does, especially this incredible new
book that he wrote at and I just want to
(01:00):
talk to him for a minute to kind of demystify
the whole subject of how he gets his inspiration and
how he figures stuff out. So, without wasting any more time,
let's dive right.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
In Hi, Happy Tuesday. Where are you?
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I'm in Bridgehampton, Long Island.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
How is that aware?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I love it here so much. I kind of live
here most of the year.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
How long have you had a house there?
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I bought this place around like nineteen ninety four, and
I love it. It's like my sanctuary. It's like a shack,
you know. It's like a complete shack. And it's not
in a lot of land. It's like an acre a
little bit. It wasn't, but it's on a reserve, so
you really feel like it's private. So anyway, since then,
I've redone it a few times.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, I was gonna say, it doesn't look like a
shack anymore. We're on a nature reserve in mon Talk
and we had a snake infestation last time, which I mean,
you know, my husband, Nate, he's not He's the type
of person that likes nature should be viewed through glass
with him. He's not somebody that wants to be out
amongst anything moving. And we had this fountain in our
(02:14):
backyard and first it was like one snake and I
was like, this is super cute and I love nature,
so I was like, look at kids. And then like
two weeks later, there was like nine ten snakes. It
looked like tomb raider. It was really weird.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
I got to say, that isn't exactly a snake infestation.
Ten stakes.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
What would you do if you walked up, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
I would freak out. And here's the really disgusting thing
about me. I would probably call an exterminator because I
am a disgusting human being.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Well, I'll take it a step further, and Nate is
a terrible person. He had the fountain filled with concrete
the next week.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, Wow, that's the dichotomy that I live in. I
would have like nurtured them. I probably started a snake farm.
And by the way, he's not like a proactive type
person with house duties, so the fact that he organized.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Actually took the time to take the snake thing. So
here's the thing I have to say, Jemiah, I know
Nate rather well.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, and I know.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
You from like seeing you guys at il Cantonori every
once in a while with your family, with your kids,
who are actually really well behaved, like for kids at
a restaurant. No, but your kids are so old. How
old are you kids?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
They're eight and six.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Well, so they're better now.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
But yeah, but you know, there's a lot of terrible
fucking kids out there, like.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Pop, Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I have friends and their children are so terrible. I'm like,
what is happening? What's going on? But our kids are
very like They've got beautiful and peccable manners. There've been
people of the world since they were born, and they've
always been included and everything. So you know, they go
to a dinner party, you have to ask three questions.
It's like a rule in our house. You have to
engage in the conversation. You know, there's no.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Disconnect, right, that's a good thing. And I have to say, like,
when I see you guys out, you always look so
different to me, Like right now, you're kind of this
giving blonde, But yeah, I don't remember you as a
blonde darling. The last time I saw you were a
full on, like raven kind of goth brunette.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
That's how I identify. Like, if I'm not dressed like
a lesbian bank Robert, I'm usually uncomfortable. And when we
see you were on the weekend and we're usually in
like a big hat and we're creatures that.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
You're usually in like come to gas On or something like,
you know, some kind of like black wig or I
don't know what it is. You look like Mortitia Adams.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
I'm like, yeah, Poe of Design.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
And I'm always like Nate, Oh, who's that babe? And
then it's Nate, you know, And then who's the babe
with Nate? Oh? And then it's you, you know. So
it's funny. Yeah, all right, So give me a little
bit of history, Like where are you from.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I'm from California, a small town though for like math
and murder in the middle of yeah, gorgeous and me
small gay decorator. I grew up with a single mother
who worked three jobs her entire life. She never stopped.
And then as soon as I turned seventeen, I left
that town and went to San Francisco for college, and
then I moved to LA and was there for a
(05:00):
long time until I met my husband, and then came
to New York and figured out that the whole world
is right here in one city. And I moved and
never looked back.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
But as a kid, I have to tell you this
little story. When I moved into my apartment on Twelfth
Street and I redid the whole thing, and my sister
came over it and she was like, Isaac, Darling, do
you realize the color of your rug the in your bedroom?
It's like a Spanish olive green, you know, yeautiful? And
I go, yeah, what about And she's like, Darling, think back,
(05:31):
and I screamed, it's literally the exact same color as
the carpeting that was in our house when I was
like a little child, you know. And I think to
myself about, like you growing up in this little town
in La Like, were there things that formed you? What
was the period first of all that you grew up in.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
It was like eighties, nineties, eighties and nineties. I mean, listen,
we didn't have any money, so there weren't a lot
of things. My mom when by the time I went
to high school, she'd worked to kind of get us
in the worst house in the best neighborhood so that
I was going to end up in like a gang.
So it was never really things about our home because
it changed so much. But it was ceremonies that I
didn't realize would make such a huge impact on me.
(06:09):
Like my mother, you know, again, no money, but we
would have flowers every Sunday and this one spot on
the dining table in a window, and I remember the
ceremony of that so beautifully, and like there was always
Edda James playing on the weekend, and same with like
coffee in the morning. I always had to take her
coffee at six point thirty in the morning to her
(06:29):
and leave at bedside, which sounds very Cinderella, but it
was lovely.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
So that's what I remember most. But it's funny when
you say that about your dek carpet, because when I
had written my book, the first question I always ask
people was like, if you look back, what's the first
space that you ever really really remember that mattered to you?
Do you remember that?
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I mean I had like a very bad case of
spidal man and Johni's when I was about six or five,
and I don't remember anything before that, So everything before
that is a blur. But I do remember my first
bedroom and how shitty it, how much I hated it
when we moved into this big, old kind of Dutch
colonial house in Brooklyn, and I remember when my mother
redecorated it. I mean, like she was a great decress.
(07:13):
Why she it was like this horrible striped wallpaper and
the worst like shag carpeting. I hated it so much.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
You know, sounds kind of great.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I do remember there was like a cork wall with
like pictures all over it, and the biggest picture on
the whole wall was like a picture of Judy Garland
and it was like this like horrifying, sort of chariscura
portrait of Judy, like crying, remember that picture of her?
Just like tears I now, right, So I do remember that.
What about you? What was your first space that you remember?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
My grandmother she was like three feet tall in Portuguese
and so mean. She was like one of the meanest
people you've ever met, But to me she was so sweet.
She was a terrible mom, great grandmother, right, And in
her backyard she had this massive atrium that my grandfather
had built her. Was not fancy by any means. It
was like plastic in two by fours. But I remember
(08:03):
sitting in that room and looking around and everything she
did was rooted and nurturing and creativity. And I remember
thinking to myself, is this how my grandmother like identifies
as this like a part of her she can't articulate.
I remember the way the door sounded when you slid
it open. I remember the way it smelled. That was
the first place that I ever, like, really loved.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Was there like a color that you associate with that place.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Red. Her car was like a Bordeaux. She was always
in that red. She always had red lipstick on, red nails,
red wall like, which, by the way, now I have
such respect for because it's very hostile. But it was everything,
and it was huge hair, you know, she couldn't see
over the steering wheel.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Eliza Minelli once told me that Kay Thompson, her godmother, Yeah,
lacquered her guest bathroom in New York City with a
specific shade of nail polish that she loved from like
Charles of the Ritz. So she brought like a thousand
bottles of this nail polish and she just laquered the
entire bathroom with this one little tiny brush that came
(09:06):
with the nail.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
I can appreciate. I can appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And it was this fabulous like red color. Kay Thompson,
Darling Kate Toms. So, did you go to design school.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
No, I went to school for marketing and advertising. I've
always been obsessed with home, but at the time I
didn't really realize it was a business you could actually
create for yourself and be a part of. But when
I moved to Los Angeles, I started building furniture and
creating pieces for myself and then for people, and then
it became a bigger business. And then I started working
for larger furniture houses. And then randomly Rachel Zoe approached
(09:36):
me to come work for her. And I'd always loved
fashion and she's like, this income, it'll be great, you know,
you know her, Yes, I.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Do, I do. I made her wedding dress, you know,
I know.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
And she's like, don't worry, you don't have to be
on the show. And turns out I did.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Have a hash well, darling, like what is the kernel?
What's the damn thing that gets you out of bed
in the morning that makes you go like I'm gonna this?
Like do you think it comes from your childhood? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I think it's still the fantasy of how people can live,
you know, when we are growing up again no money,
but we would go every week and I'd go with
my mother and we would look at all these open
homes and open houses in our area because they were
all like little dominos. They all look the same. But
I remember every time walking through and imagining like the
life that I would create for the people that were
in there. There's a window that was forgotten that could
(10:23):
be a window seat, and I'd imagine that moment that
my mother loves with coffee. Even now, the part that
always excites me is first and foremost the fantasy component
of understanding who people are, extrapolating these parts of them,
these nuances that they don't even realize, and I think,
more than ever now, also trying to find a way
to create these original spaces that really hold people. You know,
(10:44):
that's my fantasy. As somebody walks in and says, I'm
never leaving. I want to stay. So I think that
was the kernel, right.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
So can you make a scale drawing? Can you do
things that designers do?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
I can now. I remember when I left rachel Zo,
she was like, you should not be doing You need
to be doing design, that's what you love. I sold
everything I had my preus, like every piece of furniture,
so I could get a desk in my living room
of my home and start my business. And honestly, it
was all trial and error, and I was scrappy as hell.
I took any job. I remember the first project I had.
(11:18):
She's like, I've got ten thousand dollars all in and
I was like, that's great. She goes for the whole house.
I was like the fuck. But I still did it
and I loved it. And I remember the way it
felt when she walked into the house and I was
completely hooked. But you know, I never stopped. I still
don't really stop, which is what my husband always yells
at me about. But that's why I think I have
such an appreciation for books too. You know, it was
(11:39):
travel when I couldn't afford it. It was education and
information when I didn't have it. That's where I started.
And I've always drawn and sketched everything. I sketch every interior,
still in concepts. But once I could finally afford it,
the first person I hired, her name was Beth. She
was a powerhouse. She's like fully educated how to do
(12:00):
everything I didn't know how to do. So I got
very good at, you know, figuring out lanes and how
to put people in the right lanes. And that's really
kind of where it started.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
I got to tell you, it's always so shocking to
me that you know, design a s setes. So many
of them come from Los Angeles because you know, I
always think of Paris or I think of New York
a lot, because there's so much going on, so many
other things. But like, is there something about Los Angeles
that you find really inspiring?
Speaker 2 (12:29):
I think there's opportunity with space and the execution of
creativity there. I feel like people are a little bit
more confident than they have in LA is a funny place.
When I was there, people were excited about young and
upcoming and our industry, the design industry, I should say,
is not known to be like super supportive of young,
raw talent. I think things are changing now, but you know,
(12:50):
for so long it was about that prestige and people
who have been in the business and they've got their reputations.
But LA for me, had nothing but support from vendors,
from other furnish sellers and makers. There was a really
unique time happening when I was there, and I hope
still that what people connected to with me was I
was always passionate. There is no ego with what I do.
(13:11):
I love collaboration in that part of it. But I
do think that LA has a lot of really creative,
interesting people.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Not to mention Darling like Hollywood Regency. I mean that
whole look is so inspiring, and not to mention like,
you know, the adjacency, yeah, and the adjacency to Mexico.
I mean, you've got that rich vein of incredible, beautiful
inspiration right.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
The whole California.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
I mean whole California exactly, the coast top to bottom.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
You can go through five different design aesthetics. That's a
beautiful thing about it. You can ski in the afternoon
and serve in the morning. So I think the same
for design. You've got all these different design styles.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Because when I look at the stuff that you do,
I feel like it reflects that more than it reflects
Like what my friend Robert Couturier does is something which
is a very kind of you know, Frenchy French French,
or like Jeffrey Bill Hubert. You know, it's like everybody
does something that's a little bit different because of where
they come from, I think, and how they saw growing up,
(14:09):
how they lived growing up, and how they express it
in the way they live now.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
You know, I think I'm always kind of reaching for
the simplicity of how to live, you know, and I
think one thing that I've worked really hard at and
I'm still trying to do. I mean, the vast majority
of our projects will never see the light of day
because our clients are so private, but they all look
very different, which is something that I work really hard.
I really don't want to be known for one style, right.
I definitely have my perspective and the way the lens
(14:36):
that I look at things, but I want every home
to look different because everybody is different.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
But darling, so how do you get inside the head
of your person, like, how do you do something that
will please them?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
It's all story for me, and that I think is
the differentiating factor of what I've done and how I've
started because I know what I know and I know
what I don't and the one thing that I do
know is people and how to listen. That's really my job.
And you know, again, it's interesting too because my husband's
a decorator. We have very different ways that we work,
We have very different aesthetics. But for me, I always
(15:11):
start with what I call the soul, and it's this
exercise that's usually the first huge phase of our design process,
and I dive in about where you've been from the
history of you know, I have a series of questions,
we talk through where you want to go, where you're
at now, and then I kind of create this presentation
of sorts that really kind of explains and kind of
(15:32):
illustrates the soul of the space. And that has been
really good for me because it tethers the rest of
the design throughout the process. And it also is this
moment where people that I'm working with look at me
and go, holy shit, you get what matters to us
and what this needs to feel like. And then I
figure out how we make it look right right. So
it's a little backwards's essential.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
But no, no, Darling, it's funny because I got that.
I got a lot of that from your book. Now.
I got that you try to immerse yourself and get
the story and get the juice of the person. Have
there been like favorite clients?
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Well, my favorite project to date had nothing to do
with any of the prestige, But I mean I've had
really fun projects for different reasons. I love working with
Ryan Murphy. He always pushes me way outside my comfort zone.
He really pushes his creatives and I appreciate that he's.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Such an esthete himself. I mean, he realizes exactly what
he wants. Yeh.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Showing him something new is my great pleasure.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
I feel like the biggest homosexual in the world. If
you can please with Ryan Murphy, I.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Know, I feel so seen. The best project I ever
did was Oprah had asked me to redo this homeless
shelter for LGBTQ plus youth in LA and it was
a big deal for me and for a lot of reasons.
I was homeless at one point and the house that
I had moved into after I got myself out of
(16:52):
living in my car was across the street from the shelter,
so I was back ten years later. But I remember
when that whole center was done, walking people through, and
it was another testament to the power of home and
how it doesn't necessarily necessarily have to be yours, but
then presence of home and the fact that you can
come in and walk in somewhere and feel safe and
seeing vitamin I've made these backpacks that had their own
(17:14):
things that didn't sheet. Oh, that was my favorite thing,
because that's what home was supposed to be about.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Of course, you know what, wait a second, you were
homeless living out of a car. Yeah, what you just
thought we would allied over that little tidbit of information.
Tell me everything.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
I had just come out, well kind of not really out.
But I had a boyfriend at the time that I
lived with, and I came home on a Sunday and
he said to me, I love being with you, and
if I wanted to be gay, this is who i'd
be with. But I don't, so can you leave by tomorrow?
And oh, I know which. By the way, he ended
up being as gay as a fanny pack, but we
(17:53):
wish him.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Well. How old were you at the time?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Twenty nineteen?
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Oh, okay, twenty years old are yeah?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Man? And that was it. I was out on my
own in a car. I lived in my car for
quite a while because I just moved there and I
was working and everything. But I was in my car
for six months. Six months.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Wow, crazy man, you slept in a car for six months?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yeah, my little jeep.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
And where did you bathe? Like, where did you eat?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I jumped around at friends' houses and then coincidentally, I
was at a bar, probably bumming a drink from somebody
because I had no money to buy it. And this
group of girls, there's like five of them, we were
all talking and like, oh, where are you living? And
I was like, Oh, I'm living in my car. But
you know, I love it. I'm like, I'm wild and free.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yeah, I love it exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Oh I'm wild and free. And they said to me,
that's not happening. And they actually took me in to
their house. They're my dearest friends to this day, the sisters,
and they got me home and they got my head
right and helped me kind of refocus and realign and
taught me to grow the hell up because I was
such such a mess at twenty and that was it.
But yeah, it was quite an interesting experience.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Why that's fascinating to me. But it's really really so
interesting to me that you lived in the car for
six months. Now, getting back to the whole thing about
designing for people, are there clients that you just want
to kill them and stranglem and what? Tell me?
Speaker 2 (19:13):
No, it takes a lot to make me upset. So
that's good, which is why I'm married in night. No.
I think there's been one client that I had to
fire that was really hard for me because I like
to consider myself somebody who can get along with anybody.
But this project in particular, it just wasn't going to happen.
But I mean, listen, people are complicated, but what I
(19:34):
do is really complicated, just like what I can't even
imagine what you deal with. You know, it's very personal
and in a lot of ways, it is kind of
the articulation of a lot of things people are feeling
and things that they didn't even realize they're feeling. It
brings up a lot throughout the process, insecurities, good things, skeletons.
You know, our homes watch us survive a lot, and
(19:56):
to kind of take that and make sure that people
understand that I'm there protect it. Our industry gets a
bad wrap, so it doesn't help. But I've been really lucky.
I've got great clients and most of them are repeat
clients and that's my favorite.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Right But I have to say it has to hurt
a little bit because I know my husband is not
in the design field at all, and I do all
the decorating in the house, including his bedroom. How about that?
And then of course it's my fault if he hates
something and I have to come up with solution when
he hates something. But you know, it's like even in
his bedroom, he'll like bring in something and I'll be like, darling,
(20:32):
what is that?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
You know it bothers you.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
And I overlook it. No, it's totally fine. So like,
what is the equivalent of that? Like you do this
like pristine, pristine room, right, and somebody brings in. I
don't know what do you hate the most? Like mission furniture.
I'm just trying to think of like everything and everything.
I know I hate everything.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
I figured it out a while ago that once I
set a house, a photograph it right away. I don't
get it because I know when I come back, somebody's
aunt is going to be and an earn on the fireplace.
The art always kills me.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
The art.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
It's like they're like this post it note was from
I'm like, you need your money back, but it's all subjective.
So I photograph it and I get out. It's like
I try not to go back if I don't have
to to see what's happened. But you know, I've been
lucky enough to where when I have gone back, especially recently,
the houses look large of the same. But that's what
he was supposed to do. You're supposed to put their
(21:25):
spin on it.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I think so true. Tell me about taste, Like, how
do you break it to someone that they just have
to sit it out?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Well, it depends. Part of the reason around this book
also is that I am so anti trend. And it's
interesting because obviously my husband and I were on a
network where it's like, let me flip it and twist
it and sell it for you and you can move on.
And so I think with taste in particular, I think
what I'm trying to do is shift the narrative and
the perspective around what we bring into our house. To
your point, everybody's got these three things because they look
(22:03):
online and that's what they see. But you know better
than anybody, like the most important homes that stay with
you in last have nothing to do with how much
people spent or how rich they were, had everything to
do with their perspective and their ability to tell their
story through their space. But I think taste is super
subjective too. I mean, when you talk about like Michael Smith,
for example, you brought up, I have such a tremendous
(22:24):
amount of respect for his taste and his style. I
could never live in it. It's not for me, although
maybe I could. I don't know, it depends, but I
think it's interesting to see, you know, taste is at
the end of the day, like it's like religion, it's
a language. Whatever gets you to that piece and that serenity.
I think we're all at the end of the day
really looking for in our home. I just don't think
that the conversation has been the right conversation for quite
(22:45):
a while. You know, America is very young in so
many ways, which is a whole nother podcast, but I think,
you know, our homes are the same way. You know,
everything that we see on television is very prescriptive, and
I think I'm in a chapter of my life where
I want to kind of swim upstream and change that.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
You can, I mean, it's possible to do it like
one client at a time, But then I'm going back
to this thing where it's like, as a person with
really good taste, who has learned a good deal, who
has seen a good deal, and who can really go
into a room and pact it and really do something magnificent.
You know, it's like, how do you embody that without offending,
(23:27):
without bringing shame to what was there before? You know,
I've been thinking it for a very very long time,
like at some point, It made me really uncomfortable that
the only clients I had were these women at Bergdorff
Goodman who just couldn't you know, they couldn't balance their meds,
you know what I mean, That's was their daily thing.
Like I got to balance it, and I got to
make it to Betty Hallbruysch's office, and I got to
(23:49):
buy the most expensive thing I can think of, you know,
And after a while, I just thought, like, that's just
not what I want to do, Like, those are not
the people that need this stuff, you know, do you
ever think about that all the time.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
I think the sweet spot for me, and especially with
taste and how I perceive things and how I see
things with other people is the collaborative part of it.
You know. I like a bit of conflict. I like
conflict when it comes to design aesthetics.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
I do.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
That's why I married at Virgo and then I can't
even talk about it.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Triple oh no, no, no, no, no no. I have a
Virgo ascendant, but designer. I'm a Libra. What side do
you sag?
Speaker 2 (24:29):
But I love a Lee, I love us sage. We're easy.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Yeah, you're a lot of fun at parties. Darling that's
the thing, Sad. I wait a minute, getting back to
this thing. Do you think media is a big part
of like your outreach, because I know you're like a
big media star, that's a big part of what you do.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
I kind of I've asually between two different worlds. You know,
design television has a terrible reputation in the design industry.
Everybody looks down on it, you know, it's like these frauds,
like it's awful. And then design televis hates into your
design industry because they're like these uptights not be unapproachable.
(25:05):
And so what I hopefully am doing and what I
have tried to do, is show like that connective tissue
between both, which is the idea of translating people's stories
in a really authentic way. I think it's an interesting time.
You know, you can live really beautifully affordably now, which
is an important moment. It's like what fashion went through,
you know, fifteen years ago, and it's like, oh, wait
(25:26):
a minute, but I don't think you have to compromise
on style, Darling.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Give it a minute, Give this a minute, okay, because
in about one second, they're all going to be like
clamoring to have shows.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
You know, I know they love a show.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Yeah, Darling. When I started making clothes for Target, I
was having lunch with this client of mind, this very
very rich and exclusive woman, and she was like, well
that's it. I can't I can't wear your clothes anymore.
I was like, oh my god. No. I was so shocked,
and I was like, okay, well you know X right.
And then like six months later you had car Lagerfeld
doing a collection for H and M. You had Stella
(26:01):
McCartney doing It was literally like two years later that everybody.
And then this woman that worked for me called Banas Serahphore,
who was becoming this her own personality, and she would
being interviewed in Women's and she said, well, not all
of us can have lines at Target. And I thought,
oh my god, like so now I'm doing like I
couldn't believe. It was like turned about three sixty and
(26:23):
then another three sixty.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
You know, can I answer you a question, because you
were on that forefront of that whole movement, were you
ever nervous about that? Like what made you decide to
do it?
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Well? You know, I wasn't on the forefront. I was
the forefront. Sorry, same Darling. No, I mean it, it
was like yeah, and because before me, it was like
you had only examples of disaster, like you had Holston,
you know, or you had like Steven Sprouse, who would
do a promotion somewhere for a moment, get in and out. Yeah, exactly.
(26:53):
I wasn't terrified because at that point I thought I
wasn't going to be in business anymore anyway, So I
thought like, Okay, why not try this? This is actually interesting,
you know, as opposed to just doing everything that everybody
else did and tried to make some kind of like
success to Scandal every season, which is such bullshit. It's like, really,
just because it's huge and ridiculous doesn't make it good.
(27:17):
It has to be good, you know, it has to
be just good.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
And do you think you've had taste from the second
you were born, like as a child, or do you
think it's evolved both.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
I think I was born kind of a bossy old
you know bitch, you know, but and I feel like
so much of it was, you know, absorbed through my childhood.
It was like a rung and a rung and a
rung and absorbed through my teenage and going to Europe
for the first time when I was like eighteen and
like freaking out, you know, and I kept going back
(27:48):
to like Europe. I kept going back to like Paris
and London and those places, and like looking at those
stores with my face pressed to the window of those
like auction houses like a crazy person, and those galleries.
And I don't know, do you think you can teach
someone to have taste?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
No? I mean I don't know. Actually I should say
I shouldn't say that, because, like I said, growing up
no money. But my mother, I remember every time we
would go somewhere, whether it was the mall, around the
corner or on a hike up north, she would always
ask my sister and I to look for something beautiful
and to talk about it. And it was like this
really interesting practice and kind of chasing beauty and how
I define beauty and where I found beauty. And I
(28:24):
will say my mother has always had exquisite taste. I
mean she didn't have the money, obviously, but she had
exquisite taste with everything. The way she composed things, the
way she dressed herself. You know, she was always the
earrings matched to this, She's always done up. You know.
She was the first female police officer in California actually,
(28:45):
and then she went into law later on. She was
a tough cookie, but super elegant. And you know, it's
funny because we had people in our families that had money,
but my mother was always the elegant one. You could
tell when she walked in her room. I think, if anything,
I probably watched her embraced.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
A lot of it. Is she's still with us.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Oh yeah, she's actually great. She lives in Portugal. Now
she's excusing. Well, it's a long story. But we bought
a farm in Portugal, and then I gave her a
house on the farm, and so she retired finally. Yeah,
she doesn't have to work anymore, and she's there.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Oh my god, can I have a farm?
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Can I come on over?
Speaker 1 (29:23):
I would love to have you around. So we talk
about people and their work and their success. And I
always think that failure is somehow like a big tie
into that. So can you think of a failure that
you came across in your life for some kind of
a setback?
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Oh my god, I failed all the time, and luckily
I'm not nervous about it. I always say my mother
has like two sides of her brain. And my sister
and I are either side. I'm like the spontaneous, take
any chance, any risk, and my sister's much more methodical,
wildly intelligent. But everything that I have done or found
myself in is in failu. I mean, when I went
into fashion, I thought that that was going to be
(30:02):
my future and that was going to be super significant
and failed tremendously, and I remember leaving there thinking to myself, Jesus,
what am I going to do? What is this? I'm
going to take this chance with my business and go
from there. And then there's was failures all the way
through it, and I don't know better than anybody. It's
where you learn the most and where you're confronted with
the most. But my biggest realization that I had through
(30:25):
all those failures is that I never had any regrets.
You know, I'm turning forty this year.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Oh fuck you? Oh sorry? Did I say that?
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Well, listen, it's the oldest I've ever been.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
All right, I guess so, I guess so.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
But I don't have a regret, which I think is
fucking great.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Give it a minute. I'm just kidding it perfect. Oh no,
I'm teasing. I'm teasing I'm teasing. That's an incredible thing
to be able to admit. You know, sometimes I think
people are more comfortable with failure than they are with success.
I think failure is much easier to deal within success.
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
For whatever reason, people don't agree that they're going to
get success, And I think that's the interesting dichotomy between
failure and success. I have always believed that I was
going to do something big and that I could get
there and I would figure it out, even when I
was living in a car or bouncing around with two
pennies to rub together. I don't know. I've always looked forward,
(31:24):
and I've always believed in momentum and kind of following
the flow of life and seeing where it takes you
and trying it all because we don't get that long
to do it, so grab everything great.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
So up, there's media that you do, there's this TV
show and not to mention all of the work you
do in the clients. But then there's your social I
mean that's really important too. Does that factor into it?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
It? Does? I mean, listen, I get in a lot
of trouble all the time because my Instagram is like
definitely a little bit more moody, and it's not as commercials.
I think a lot of people would like I have
like a love hate relationship with social media. Yea, you know,
I think it's fascinating and that I've got nineteen year
old twenty year old interns that are referencing you know,
sixteenth century this and that, and it's like you can
(32:08):
really travel the world visually now at your fingertips, which
is so beautiful. But you know, for me, social media
and the way that I can like wrestle with my
obligations to it is it's like a stream of consciousness,
and whatever I share, I wanted to just feel like
it's something that I'm thinking or seeing. But yeah, I
mean people are creating their entire existence on there. You know,
(32:30):
people that aren't designers saying they're design It's just a
different world.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
I know, I know. Wild Do you think you ever
kind of forfeit something in favor of social because a
lot of times I go, Okay, I look ridiculous, I
hate this, but I'm just going to post it, and
then of course it's the thing that gets the most likes,
you know, But do you ever do that.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
All the time. I've never seen a picture of myself
that I like. If I had my way, I wouldn't
be on my social media at all. It would just
be gorgeous images of obscure random spaces and beautiful details.
But that's not going to happen right.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Now, except I got to tell you like you are gorgeous, okay,
and Nate is gorgeous, So there aren't really bad pictures
that you guys can take. Do you think that's a
factor in your success? Do you think people just want
to be around you and that's why they hire you? No?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
I think I don't know about me, but my husband's
great gift is that he like sees people the way
they want to be seen. So when you're around him,
he's fun and he's easy to love. I think when
we certainly decided to do the show, the d HGTV Show,
and we brought our family onto it, I was really
worried about the way people are going to receive it
because we were the first gay family on that network,
(33:39):
and I think it helps it. We're digestible gay, my
husband and I. You know, I'm not too queeny, I think,
which drives me crazy. And what I hate about, like
what's going on but people have been really good to us,
and people have been really supportive, and I hate talking
about myself, which is why this is.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
My worst Well darling, buckle up. Okay, but here's the
thing I read about how easy it is between you
and Nate in terms of like the whole design thing,
Like if somebody doesn't like something, it's a non starter.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Right, Yeah, Well, because I mean, I'm so jealous you
don't have to like argue with your spouse about design.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
No, here and there, I pretend to like something, and
every time in the room with it, I go like
that thing has got to go. I've got to drop something,
got to burn you. Oh sorry I burned. That happened exactly. No,
But I mean you do have this way that you've
negotiated between the two of you in terms of stuff, right,
does it ever just become like too fucking much? Like
(34:37):
shut up? Can we talk about something else? Please? Really?
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Yeah? All the time? You know, like our house, you
don't move a ball without there being a conversation. It
can be really fucking hardcting. But he's still my favorite
person and we have such different perspectives, Like our house
right now is not what it would look like if
I did it on my own, Like, it's not how
I would live if I lived on myself, and vice
versa for him. But we found this like mutual aesthetic
(35:05):
that works, like I see enough of myself in there.
He sees enough of himself and I don't want to
kill myself, you know, living there. But between working together,
we did the show together. You know, we do plenty together,
but we still have a good time.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Is it an open relationship asking for a friend?
Speaker 2 (35:21):
No, I'm not good at sharing neither. No.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I know. Also, I think it's generational. I think like
you might just be at this critical point where like
maybe you don't really see the open thing is.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
But a lot of people have open relationships.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
I'm learning it's like, yes, I'm like, oh darling.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
By the way, I'm not judging. I think it's great.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
No me either, of course, not. I wish get such
a good thing.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Oh no, it seems like too much work for me.
I just met another friend the other day was like, yeah,
we were in a thremble for a while.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
I was like, what thrupple? What the hell?
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Oh no, And by the way, that that that word
is in the OED. Now throuble I'm not kidding.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
How do you just I'd like your part in the throttle,
like just physically, Like how does it work? Like you
all just have like a meeting of the minds. There's
a lot of details for me that stress me.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
I know exactly where there sleep, a lot of scheduling,
a lot of bathroom time scheduling. Now you have to
have three bathrooms.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
That's just a star.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Let's talk about like your kids, but just one second,
like being the kids of two esthetes, is there any
way out? Like do they have any choice in this matter?
Speaker 2 (36:34):
That's funny. I don't know. I mean, listen, I will
tell you I never thought that we were gonna have children,
and I definitely I love the way that our family loves.
You know, those kids, unlike myself and even my husband,
they have no obligation to us. They get to just
be who they want. I don't care. As long as
they're kind and they're honest. The rest is up to them.
You know, our daughter is obsessed with fashion. She has
(36:57):
always been since she was little. She'd sketch is still
she'd made an outfit yesterday and showed me. You know,
I noticed that a table kept getting moved a couple
months ago, and I kept putting it back, and I
finally said to I, go, why are you moving that table?
We already talked about it, And it turns out it
was our sun putting it back where it goes, because
I'm so ritualistic with the way we live, you know,
(37:19):
with the way the lights are at night and the
way the candles are lit, and the morning's different than
the evening that I think it's definitely had an effect
on them.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Do you fear though, because when I was a kid,
they warned us about materialism, like it's not about things,
you know. But then if you watch like Sex and
the City, right, Like she changes clothes every five minutes, right,
and she does not wear the same thing. You know.
When I was watching Mary Tyler We're growing up, she
was Wednesday, so she would wear that red thing with
(37:48):
the skirt and the boots, like that was her Wednesday look, right,
And it recurred through the season. But in Sex and
the City there is no such continuity. And so it
gave birth to this kind of like culture where you
get stuff, you use stuff, you sell stuff. Do you
have a worry about your kids? Like in terms of
the materialism in terms of like them seeing the turnaround
(38:10):
of stuff, you know all the time.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
You know, Nate and I had very different childhoods. He
came from money very different than what I had, and
I think we had an agreement that in our house
it's not really about acquire. There's a lot more require Like,
for example, if the kids want a toy or something,
they have to earn it, and it's usually a week
long and every time we get something, something is donated,
something leaves. You have to participate in the maintenance of
(38:35):
the house. Because the truth is, Daddy's work their asses
off to get here. You're not going to get any
of it. Get to work, and I want them to
understand what it means to participate and to earn and
to value. You know, it's hard enough in this city,
and by the way, it was way harder when we
lived in la You know, you go to birthday parties
(38:56):
and there's custom Nike booths and I'm like, what is happening? Oh,
But being in New York, I will say, you know,
the kids are part of the world. Here it's different,
but that that part of our life you have to
work at because we want them to understand we work
at maintaining this house. You have to maintain this house alongside,
like we're all part of this rhythm and this vibration.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Who's the mean daddy? Are you the mean daddy? And
is Nate the nice daddy? You can tell me I'm
the consistent I'm the consistent daddy. Wow, that is a
really good I guess because my husband is I guess,
the consistent daddy with the dogs.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Yeah, yeah, that's me. And I used to I used
to cry about it at night because I'm like, you're
gonna hate me. You don't do anything, and you're just goofy.
But if they fall, if something goes wrong in school,
they come running to me to work through it. And
the truth is I didn't have that consistency, and it
was really important for me to be waiting for that.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Do you make them just keep one Christmas present and
give the rest to like mean Joan Crawford Mobby.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
No, but I'll tell you this. I mean, we don't
buy them anything for Christmas. We get them one gift
from Sanna, but the rest is like family gets them gifts.
Like I'm not somebody who has like sprawling out all
over the living room floor.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Christmas.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
It's just not I don't like it.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
And maybe you did it for the publicity, maybe just
a little. I'm kidding that, all right. You know, obviously
you think about young people. I think about them too,
and I think about like young artists, and I think
about young designers. Do you have advice for young design people?
Speaker 2 (40:33):
I mean, you just get ready to work your ass off.
Get a notebook. I still think a notebook is like
the sexiest thing I've ever seen when like, I want
somebody to write something down when you're in there rown.
Nothing drives me just sweet.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Duck or just sweet Duck corp. I love a handwritten.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
That's it, like, just write it down a notebook. I
hand them out to everybody here.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Listen.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
It's an interesting time. You have to be really responsible
for the digital footprint that you're putting into the world
and how you're participating in this digital landscape. But because
of that, we've seen people are able to create businesses
in an industry that used to be something that was
so hard to crack into. I mean, when I started
my firm, Nate was this big designer and I was
(41:11):
like bank borrowing and stealing to try to get clients
and it just was a repetition, repetition, repetition. But I
think more than ever, people just have to prepare to
work really hard.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Is there competition between you guys for real?
Speaker 2 (41:24):
No. The fact that I was able to meet him
when I did, which is I just started my firm.
He was, you know, big and famous and just wrapped
his talk show. He always treated me like an equal
with not only with the way I created, but the
way I saw things, with the way we worked together.
He never treated me like anything other than an equal.
(41:45):
And I think because of that, there's just a tremendous
amount of respect. We've never been competitive with each other
that I know of.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
And perhaps it's not that he treated you like an equal.
It's perhaps because you are an you know what I mean.
It's not that it's not him anything particularly. Yeah, I mean,
you're a very good designer. You're a good designer, all right.
So now I do this every time. I do this,
every single time, I ask people about their obituaries because
it is the thing that I am most obsessed with
in the world is my own obituary. Like literally every
(42:15):
single day, every day, I go to the Times and
I open it up and I go straight to the listings,
and it's not going to do for me.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
What would your obituary say?
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Oh? I don't know. You know. The thing I'm so
scared is that I'm going to drop dead tomorrow and
it's going to be like only about fashion, because I
don't want it to be about fashion. I want it
to be about like the entertainment business.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Is it weird that I wouldn't want an obituary at all?
Speaker 1 (42:38):
I don't know. What would you want? Like a rock,
like a steak in the ground? What would you want?
Tell me what you want? Really, you don't want like
anybody to know anything about Jeremiah Brent.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
No, No, I mean I want to answer your question,
but I'm like, I don't know if I really wanted one.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Well, if there wasn't one and they came across the
name Jeremiah Brent, they might think you were like, you know,
some kind of like tree feller, like a lumberjack Dremiah brimmed,
you know, like it does not sound it is. It's
extremely butch butch butch, yes, which is how I describe
Is it like a grinder? Are you like a butch top?
(43:14):
I'm so so exciting.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
It depends on my mood. I think. I think, uh,
I'm so glad by the way that I missed the
whole grinder era. That was not I know. Oh I
would have been so bad, I thought.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
But you never went on. You never went on the
phone thing where you beeped to the next caller. You
never did that, because that was my generation. I love
the phone thing. Okay, go on.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
I was convinced that everybody was going to give me
an STD, so I was not made for any of that.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
I was.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
It's my worst nightmare.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Okay, all right, some hormones didn't rage hard enough for
you to like risk maybe getting the tiniest little STD. No.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
No, I remember there's one person that I met on
Facebook and I ended up dating him, but I remember
like feeling so scandalous and like putting him through like
the most rigorous fashionaire right before we hooked up, and
he's like, what is happening? But yeah, I was not
meant for it. I wasn't a good single.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Oh wow, I love this.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
This is fantastic. My obituary is going to be that
I'm a big butch lumberjack who loved hard and created beautifully.
I guess like that's it.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
That's a good thing. That's a good answer. It's a
really good answer. And by the way, in the hands
of a really good obituarist or something, they'll do plenty
with that. Darling. What do you want to promote on
this podcast?
Speaker 2 (44:28):
My book, which is out today February twentieth. I've been
working on it for two and a half years and
it's been a real labor of love. I remember when
I went to the publishers, multiple publishers, saying I wanted
to write a design book, not about design. Everybody looked
at me like I had lost my mind. But I
did it, and I'm really proud of it, and it's
nice to talk about it and not feel like I'm
selling something but sharing it. It's like this collection of
(44:50):
ten different people who've never left their home. They've stayed
there the whole time, and it's like a collection of
love letters. So I'm excited to.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Share with it. I love it. I love it, and
there are a certain store I love more than other stories, obviously,
But what gave you that idea?
Speaker 2 (45:05):
We moved ten times in ten years, Nate and I
and I was like, what the fuck is wrong with us?
Like why can't we stay anywhere? And I used to
fantasize about people who've lived in the same home, like
I'll never forget walking into Tony Goodman's house for the
first time and you can see every dinner party, every story,
every scratch on the base board, and what it represented
(45:28):
that like for me, is like the sexiest thing in
the world is a home that holds all those echoes.
And I wanted it.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
And that was honey, move Darling. She moved.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
I know I was there her last night last night
before she left.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
So did Wendy. I mean Wendy was like I had
it in her place too. I don't know what went
on with.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Those sisters this year at the same time.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yeah, it was some kind of crazy planetary movement in
their chart or something.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
I think it's good for theological drug me too.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
I think it's incredibly good for people to make changes.
Of course, like I am never leaving my apartment twelve.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
I was just going to say, how long have you
been there?
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Well, I had a one bedroom there since like the
late eighties, I would say since the late eighties of
the early nineties, and then I got the studio down
the hall, which I worked in for a little was
like my private office, and then I got the two
bedroom in between. Then I just put them all together.
So I've been there for like like over thirty some years.
It's crazy since the nineties. Yeah, next book, I mean,
(46:26):
granted it's not on the Grand Canal in Venice like
that incredible story in your book, which.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
Is just it was important for me too though in
that book it's like non exclusionary with I didn't want
it to be a book of rich white people. You know.
It's like Dora, who lives in Sicily, her home was
like one of my favorite bass I've ever seen, with
the pressed doilies and the polished you know what I mean.
It's like it's nice to see home through different people's eyes.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Yes. So your book is called The Space that Keeps You,
The Space that keeps You Right. It's a great title.
It's a great book. Everybody needs to get it. That's it.
I love you, Thank you, Jermiah the best.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
I can't see you what you cant Yeah, probably the
weird black gnome in the.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
Corner, ah right, looking completely different.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
Yeah this week I don't know, Yeah, exactly. Thank you
so much.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
Thank you. One thing that I was so happy to
learn about Jeremiah Brent is how kind of skeptical he is, right, Like,
I don't know why, but I think of him as
this incredibly bountiful, adorable, gorgeous looking easy person. But then
(47:35):
when you talk to him about things, he seems to
be a little bit like the rest of the entire world,
a little hesitant, a little skeptical, right, Like, for instance,
he was talking about his kids and the way he
gives them one Christmas present and they have to earn things,
and I just love that. I think that, you know,
it restores a kind of hope that I have for
(47:57):
the future. And I mean that, you know, I always
wanted to ask him about his kids, and so I
was really really happy to talk about that on today's episode.
And I'm really happy that you got a chance to
hear all that, and I thank you, darlings. If you
enjoyed this episode, do me a favor and tell someone,
(48:19):
Tell a friend, tell your mother, tell your cousin, tell
everyone you know. Okay, and be sure to rate the show.
I love rating stuff. Go on and rate and review
the show on Apple podcasts so more people can hear
about it. It makes such a gigantic difference and like
it takes a second, so go on and do it.
(48:39):
And if you want more fun content videos and posts
of all kinds, follow the show on Instagram and TikTok
at Hello Isaac podcast and by the way, check me
out on Instagram and TikTok at. I Am Isaac Msrahi.
This is Isaac, Missrahi, thank you, I love you and
(49:01):
I never thought I'd say this, but goodbye Isaac. Hello
Isaac is produced by Imagine Audio, Awfully Nice and I
AM Entertainment for iHeartMedia. The series is hosted by Me
Isaac Msrahi. Hello Isaac is produced by Robin Gelfenbein. The
(49:21):
senior producers are Jesse Burton and John Assanti vis Executive
produced by Ron Howard, Brian Grazerkarral Welker, and Nathan Cloke
At Imagined Audio, production management from Katie Hodges, Sound design
and mixing by Cedric Wilson. Original music composed by Ben Wiltzer.
A special thanks to Neil Phelps and Sarah Katanak at
(49:43):
I AM Entertainment
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