January 8, 2024 • 51 mins
Isaac Mizrahi chats with casting director, Bernie Telsey (“The Color Purple”, “Only Murders in the Building”) about why he can’t believe movie stars email him sometimes, how a teacher changed his life, the sacrifices he made for his career and more. Plus, he shares invaluable tips for actors and performers about auditions.
Follow Hello Isaac on @helloisaacpodcast on Instagram and TikTok, Isaac @imisaacmizrahi on Instagram and TikTok and Bernie Telsey @bernardtelsey and @thetelseyoffice.
(Recorded on November 1, 2023)
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I always think every audition is like a blind date.
When you go to a blind date, you're looking in
the mirror, you're thinking about what you're wearing, you're thinking
about what you're going to talk about. Like all of
that thought process goes into that date, so to speak.
So every audition you have to think of as the
same thing that everybody wants it to be good.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
So just be able to breathe and be who you are.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
This is Hello Isaac, my podcast about the idea of
success and how failure affects it. I'm Isaac Msrahi, and
in this episode, I talk to award winning casting director
and co founder of the MCC Theater Bernie Telsey.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hello, Isaac, it's Bernie Telsey. Could you give me a call.
I want to talk to you about this design idea I.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Have on this podcast. I think it's important not just
to talk to like gigantic movie stars and writers and
TV stars, but also to people who are just really
good at what they do. It's one of the things
we talk about all the time, especially in the performing arts,
and today I'm going to talk to Bernie Telsey, whom
(01:07):
I've known for thirty five years or something. For a really,
really long time. Bernie is definitely one of the most
important casting directors alive. He's cast Broadway shows like Rent
and Wicked and In the Heights and TV shows like
This Is Us and Only Murders in the Building and
the Gilded Age, plus jillions and jillions of other things. Anyway,
(01:29):
I think this is a great episode. If you're an
actor or a performer, or if you know an actor
and a performer, you should tell them to tune in
and listen to this because Bernie gives a lot of
great advice.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
So let's waste no time. Let's get right into this.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Bernie Telsey Darling, Hi, Isaac, you look good. Your hair
looks good. Did you just get a haircut or something.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
No, it's just it's actually growing, and it's you know, messy.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Mess me too, Darling. Where do you work out these days?
Do you still go to Manhattan Plaza?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yes, in the early early morning, do you? Because I
don't go anymore. I can't go anymore, you know, Oh
my god, you always went well.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I went swimming. I liked the pool right here. But
remember the crazy old Queen c A who sort of
ran the pool. No, I never lived died well, he
died over COVID.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
So I don't go.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
I just had to stop going. Bernie and I go
to the same gym, or used to go to the
same gym. But that's not how I know you. I
know you for about one hundred years. Yeah, it's amazing,
And yet, Darling, I know so little about your history.
Like where are you from? Are you from New York
City proper?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, I'm from Elmont, New York, which is like the
first town of Nassau County, So I grew up there
the whole time until I moved to the city.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
And what brought you to the city.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Oh, I could not wait to get away from Long
Island and get to Manhattan.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Where I went. Were you a theater major?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah? I was an acting major in a theater management major,
because I always wanted to start a theater, which thankfully
i'm doing.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Where do you think that gene comes from? Because parents
don't exactly encourage their kids to do this, and they didn't.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Mine certainly did it. My mother encouraged me to take accounting.
But oh godd bless her.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
But because Bernie Telsey, that's a perfect thing for the county.
I'll just say, but it did get me my first job,
so credit to her.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
But it started by going to the day camp, you know,
in doing sound of Music and Fiddler on the roof,
playing Teva at twelve years old.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
You can tell me everything, Keep going, keep going.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
I went to a day camp, you know, where I
played the von Trapp's son, and then the next year
I played Tevier.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Wow, so you went from playing Nazis to playing Yeah,
go on, it's.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
A whole thing.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
But really, then I got into high school and we
didn't have a big drama department, but we had a
little drama club, and I got really friendly with one
of my teachers, Ronnie Russo, who was a music teacher,
and he just happened to also live like close by
where I lived, and he ran a theater company all
the way out of Long Island, and I just started
going with him after school. You know, my dad worked
(04:14):
at night, my mom didn't drive, and I would go
with him after school. And then I was in the
chorus of this community theater that rehearsed, you know, seven
to ten. The only way to get there was to
drive with him and drive back home with him. And
I started working in the office as a ninth grader
and a tenth grader seeing how this theater company was
sort of running and learning about admin and I was
(04:37):
hanging out with all these thirty year olds as a teenager,
and I got the taste of it.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Bernie, I'm going to ask you this question about your
relationship with your parents, because I know that you have
a really, really, really close relationship with your kids, you know,
but it was a different time. Were they aware that
you were doing all this? No?
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I mean they were aware because they came to the
weekend performance, you know, of Mana Lamacha and I was
a horse or I was a jet in the West
Side story, But they didn't know where I was after school,
that I was actually helping in the office and getting
home at one am. I mean, they didn't, right, you know.
God bless my dad. He just worked all the time
(05:17):
at nights and on the weekend, you know, he was
in retail. So they knew I was doing the theater,
but they had no sense that that's what I was
going to do for my life.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
I often think the adversity that I experienced as a
kid prepared me for the world and made me go
out there and do something.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I think that do you feel that way about your own? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Really, and again I love my folks, but it made
me like hungry because nothing was being sort of given
to me or directed me that I had to sort
of find it by the peers that I met who
were ten years older, fifteen years older. Like even college
was like, oh, go to the community college down the block,
and it was like, there's got to be something else.
(05:59):
And sought out NYU and figured it out and borrowed
money and you know the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
And listen, you are known in the world as a
great casting director, the greatest casting director director, and so
how did that occur to you?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Like how did you make the leap.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
From community theater to NYU to musical production or something
like that and then into casting.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I knew what a casting director was. I knew who
like JULIETT.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Taylor doing all the Woody Allen movies, right, you know,
as a young actor, but I didn't really know what
they actually do as a job. And I went to
NYU and I was in the theater management program, who
at that time was taught by all these working professionals
in New York, Like the way if I was teaching
or you were teaching now, and they wanted to set
you up for all these producing jobs, you know, go
(06:47):
work for Annie Eisenberger, go work for the Schuberts. And
I had already met Bob Lapone, and I was like, no,
we're starting a theater company the day after I graduate,
so really, I don't want to go work for somebody else.
And then it was my admin teacher said, I know
these two casting directors who are looking for somebody to
work part time. And I thought, oh, I could do
(07:07):
part time because that won't interfere with my dreams.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
And I worked for them part time, Meg Simon and
Frank Cuman, and I just stayed there for six years.
I mean I loved every minute of that. And they
started taking me to the theater every night, and you know,
having a place to talk about your taste and what
you like and what you're seeing around town.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
And you know, I was acting for a little bit.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
I understudied Matthew Broderick on Brighton Beach Memoirs, but really
I started seeing actors and I was like, oh, I
can't do that. I'm not that good, Like that's really good.
How can I help that really good?
Speaker 2 (07:45):
You know? And I just stayed in casting.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
I mean, I loved Meghan fran They taught me so much.
And then I went on to go freelance with Resa
Billy and Billy Hopkins, helping them on their movies that
they were doing, Desperately Taking Susan and Fatal Attraction, and
then Richard Avedon asked them to do a commercial and
we did this like IBM commercial, and of course I
(08:08):
only knew off Broadway actors. I knew theater actors, and
we put you know, Ron Vadder from the Performance Garage
and Bob Joy and Larry Brigman, all these great theater
actors in their first commercials. And the commercial took off
in the ad agency world, in the advertising world, and
then Recent and Billy started getting all these calls for commercials,
and they were like, we're not doing commercials.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
We have too many movies. You go do them. Gop,
go open up your own shed and do commercials.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
And it became the sort of perfect thing for me
to do while I was starting this theater company, because
I was like doing commercials every day, bringing in theater people,
and you know, we did any Liebowitz's commercial. You know,
all these cool people that were doing commercials at the time.
We were casting them and it was great. And then
that led to like regional theater. A young director who
(09:00):
I knew said come do this play, and then it
all sort of fell into doing Rent off Broadway. That
was when Jim Nicola at the workshop said we're doing
this little musical and I tried to turn it down.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
I mean, I was like, I don't know, and he
was like, no, please do this musical. We saw that
you did this one for Peter Seller's. Peter Seller's the director,
the director, the opera director.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
I had directed a rock opera for him that Jim's
that director mean, you can't sorry cast for Peter, and
Jim saw that and thought, well, that's what we need
in our new rock opera called Rent.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
What I love about this story is how he approached
you and you were kind of reluctant to do it,
and then it became the thing that puts you on
the map.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
And the best experience I've ever had in my life, because.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
You've ever had in your life, You've ever had in
the theater for sure, right.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, and not because you know, we didn't know what
it was.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
But it was so hard because it was at a
time when they weren't off Boardbay musicals like there are
now every other week, and there wasn't rock pop musicals.
It was Le Miz and Saigon. And as I say
to agents all the time, nobody wanted their client to
do a two hundred dollars a job off Broadway when
they could be on the road and do the spear
(10:16):
Carrier in Ley Miz. You know, nobody hundred and fifty dollars,
you know, and nobody wanted to do it. And I
didn't know what I was doing. I mean, I knew
what I was doing, but it wasn't like I had
a list of twenty.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Ideas, right.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
So like, for instance, I'm trying to think of the cast,
Daphne Rubin, Veige, Adam pest Write, Adam Pescal, jessel Mark,
you really, Jesse L Martin, a.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Few names he exactly. So these are people that owe
their careers because of it.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
But wait a minute, but you were there casting commercials
and you had all of these actors that you knew
and commercial performers. This is a very specific kind of
vocal range that you were casting and somehow.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
What did you do? Did you hold?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
I was like, yeah, we were holding auditions. We were
looking under every rock possible. Wow, because how was I
going to know a list of twenty year olds who
could sing like the way Jonathan Larson wanted them to sing.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
So we just kept digging and seeing everyone.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
And it made you realize that is so part of
the job with casting, depending on the project, is really
searching and looking.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
You know.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
We would try to do an open call, no one's coming.
It wasn't like when it went to Broadway, four thousand.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
People showed up for that call. Right.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
We would put like an ad in the back of
the Village Voice, you know, like thinking like you want
to be a rock star, you know, didn't even say
it was theater and I had a little office at
the time, and in the back room was like thirty
men who looked like Alice Cooper and Adam Pascal and
it was like please God sing please, you know what
(11:50):
I mean.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
And Adam someone be able to say yeah, wow.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
You know, Adam was so handsome and sang like a
you know, amazing wow. He got cast. But it was great.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
I believe this story is so inspiring to me how
sort of came from kind of nothing. What I do
remember about Rent was that it was a long journey. Yes,
it started as this workshop, and then there was another
workshop and another worship, and there was this kind of
core bunch of people that kept showing up for the
different workshop residences for instance. And then finally it was
a success at at the workshop at the workshop, and
(12:25):
there was a big buzz about it. People, my god,
from the first reading. But did casting that change your life?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I did?
Speaker 3 (12:30):
All of a sudden people start showing up for audition.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Because then all of a sudden producers were calling and saying, oh,
come do this. You know, I'm producing Prison Laughter on
Broadway or Paul Simon, I'm producing The kpe Man.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
You know. Then all of a sudden, it was like,
oh my god.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
And thankfully my wife was like, you need to get
an office and stop using the mcc phone and you
have a real business now. And I got space and
because I was a staff for two at the time,
you know, and all of a sudden, Rent was having
five national tours, right.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
And you know, casting your damn head off.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, but it was fun. It was so much fun,
and it still is so much fun. It's a great,
great job.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Well, listen, there was this sharp like ascent for you
after that, like you sort of started taking off, not
just with fabulous projects and new projects, but also, like
you said, with regional companies of rent and different things
and all of a sudden jobs on a coming away.
Was there a moment where you failed or had like
a big setback that you learned a great deal from
(13:35):
It wasn't like a.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Career setback, I don't think.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
I mean, I think part of my goal was also
when I saw that casting really can be a profession,
and how do we sort of wake up the world
to know that we are part of a creative team
and it is a creative job and no different like
a costume designer or a set designer, you know, and
still it's not a profession that people know about or
a job that people know about.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
It. All right, so let's talk about it, because first
of all, what do you do someone calls you or
do you call them? Like, for instance, let's talk about
the most recent production that I saw, which was Sweeney Todd,
Right that Josh Grobin, that idea that is such a
great idea. I don't know who thought of that. Annalie Ashford, Like,
(14:21):
the casting of that is so genius.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I can't take any credit for that because when Tommy Cale,
the director called, they already knew. He and Josh had
already discussed I doing this production with Steven Seinheim, and
then they came to me and said, let's put a
reading together. We want to hear it with Josh with
the intention of doing a Broadway revival.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
I see, so I was about Anne. Yeah, we will
bring in that amazing child from Stranger Things.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Great. Oh my god, he was so.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
He was so perfectly perfectly cast to that. It was
a lot of inspiring casting in that thing.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
And then to have a lot of new people to
get their Broadway debuts and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
But yeah, Darling, is there no Tony Award that goes
to a casting director as yet? No, there is no
Tony Award, no Tony Award.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
There is no Oscar as I can think, but there
is an Emmy, right, but there's no Oscar either. And
it's something we really all as an industry.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
It should be.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
It's, you know, like it needs to be because it
is mostly what makes the show happen.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Right, It's how you see the show, it's how you win,
it's has show you experience the show. I mean that Emmys,
thank god, Yes, there are there are five categories for casting.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Well who do we speak to? What petition do we sign? Seriously, Darling,
it's the Broadway League. Go fund page? Do we start
for this?
Speaker 1 (15:49):
But it's the Broadway League for the Tonys and the Oscar.
But you know they are talking about it. I don't know,
at least in the Oscar world. You know it's it's coming.
We as casting gregers have brought it up.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
So oh nos.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
But well I'm glad to hear that because it doesn't
compute to me, and I would be interested.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Well, I think audiences would be interested because everyone at
home is always casting it, you know, you know what
I mean. I mean, especially with the years of American
Idol and the Voice and all of that kind of stuff. Yes,
we've all learned to have an opinion, So why not so.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
When you're casting something, describe your life a little bit.
I mean, I can imagine there was a point in
your life where you were just holding a lot of
auditions and seeing a lot of people, and then it
kind of spread and you right, Oh is that true?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Oh yes?
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Still, now I have a staff and there's thirty people
here who are every day doing auditions for something. But
how it starts is we get the call, like from
Tommy Kale or from a producer Jeffrey Seller or and say,
we have this project. We want to do a revival
of Sweeney Todd, or we want to do this brand
new musical some like it Hot or whatever it is.
And then we asked to see if there's any material
(16:59):
we can read, if it's something brand new or score
that we can listen to. And then I try to
spend as much time with the director, a producer and
the writers so we could get inside them to understand
what is it that they're writing and what is it
that they're visioning that we can then supply the options
to them, and then we go away and think of
(17:21):
our ideas.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Sometimes we do.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Lists if we're talking about a star vehicle for Broadway
play revival, and sometimes we're like, Okay, let us show
you these twenty ideas for this one role and twenty
ideas for this other role. Sometimes we do live auditions
in the room. Sometimes we're doing tapes with people, or
we're doing zooms like this right, and we're constantly trying
(17:44):
to put a collage of a company together.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
And does it ever not work? Do you ever not
cast someone? What's that?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
My god?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yes? And then you keep going.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
I mean you're constantly collaborating with the director and they're like,
that's not it.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Did you ever get fired because it was like, I
can't with Bernie, he's we brought in five five days
of being cast.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Not not in the middle of a project like that.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
But sometimes a lot of these shows go through stages
and you cast the first reading and then the second
reading is nineteen months later, and then you get the
call that, oh, they decided to go with someone else.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Right, it happened. Wow, you know, who wha wha, wha,
whoa whoa wah, Wow, that happens.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
But like you know, I'm we're all very tight in
the theater world as casting directors, so we don't mind.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
So you understand, you get it. But how much of
your job is about negotiations?
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Oh, good question. In the theater world, we actually don't
do that. There's a general manager who actually makes the
deals for all the actors. We're there to help when
things are like not moving forward, and we try to
get involved when the GM asks us.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
But in film and TV. We do all the negotiations.
I mean it's a different.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Mean let's say Josh Grubin wasn't attached just me. He taught,
and they said, we really want Josh Grobin get them
for us, you know, and then you have to make
the contact or something, and then you have to say, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Then we go after that agent and try to sell
the project and try to entice that actor. Oh, come
meet the director. Can you come meet this. How about
we do a reading out loud so you could see
if you like it. I mean we have to try to,
you know, entice them to get involved. And then every
day it's a negotiation of something some you know, I
mean like selling somebody the idea of something right, you know,
(19:32):
Like Jesse el Martin will always tell me if you
look at all of our original rent auditions, there's like
seven days of auditions and everyone has Jesse L Martin,
no show didn't show up.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Wow, you know, because it was like, I don't want
to do a musical. I'm not a singer.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
And I drove up to Connecticut and I was like, Jesse,
you have to come in to rent, you know. So
you know, it's not always like that, but you're always
either negotiating with the agent to try to get people
in to coax people. Yeah, because you know, many actors
have too many choices.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
I had this incredible talk with this director yesterday. It
was so inspiring, and he was talking about a person
that he wanted to cast in a role in a
movie and how he kept like sort of seeing him
at dinner and go over at the.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Table and go hey blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
And then finally this actor was like, no, no, no,
And then the casting person put him in front and said,
or they just set up a meeting through a casting director,
And all of a sudden, this actor was like, oh,
is this what you were talking? It's sometime it's unbelievable.
How like sometimes you can only get things done through
the right channels, right, How much of that is true?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
How much of your job is about.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Kind of networking and knowing people and making no deals
And you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
And I love agents and managers and whatnot because I
talked to him every day, do you but it is
about well.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
I know I have to, but I'm getting I like
some of them too.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
You don't always know what's getting to the actor, you
know what I mean. And it's a people business. And
luckily because of the NCC theater, I have other relationships
with actors because sometimes they're in my theater and I'm
in their dressing room with them.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
It's not you know, the scary casting director behind the desk.
Now they're already here.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
So as I know actors, I mean, I don't go
around the agent, but I'll go to the agent and
then also.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Go to the actor, right.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
You know, if I can to say, like, do you
know about this? I'm sure your agent gave you this,
hope you can do it, wow, Because it's a people business.
It's not like it's anything shady. It's just the more
ways you can contact people the better. Always, as you
must know in your field, I do.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
What I'm scared of these days, speaking of my field
and other fields, in all fields, is that social media
plays a big part in it, you know, and terrifying
a little.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
I mean, do you run up against that.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
I'm sure in TV you have to run up against
where someone where you have an idea for someone great
to cast in something, and they go, oh, they only
have fifteen followers on social media so we can't, I mean,
tell me about that.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah, it's not as black and white as that.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
But everyone is always bringing up, now, how many followers
they have. It's always being discussed. Is it ever really
getting in the way.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Sometimes? Well, you know what I mean. First, now, what
I have to tell you.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
I was pitching a show to a TV executive and
I finally got in front of them. I won't mentioned
who it wasn't this person runs the studio, you know,
and they were going to make a decision, and they
changed the subject that we were about to pitch the show,
and all they wanted to talk about was like social
media following and we should probably think about our social
(22:50):
media following. And it was like, well okay, like it
was dead in the water at this meeting. You know,
that was so difficult to get you know, yeah, it's
really hard.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
That's because the main conversation in all circles, even in
the theater.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
You know.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Again, it's not getting in the way of necessarily someone
getting hired or not, but it's just talked about too much,
or then it's talked about that actor's presence on social media.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
You know, you know, I mean too much, too little.
It's that kind of stuff. Do you have fun with
social media? Do you like it? Do you go on it?
I have an Instagram page. Our casting office now has
an Instagram page.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
We really resisted it for a long long time, and
the younger people in my office encouraged me to have
it so we can talk about all the shows, not
from a bragging but congratulate the casts who are opening
in such and such or oh, look, the trailer for
Color Purple came out, shouldn't we help promote that. So
(23:48):
we're just starting that and then I'll go on Instagram sometimes,
but people in my office use it all the time,
you know, so that's a great way to find young actors.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Well that's what I'm saying. Yeah, that's why I kind of.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
We're on TikTok all the time from a sense of
looking for talent or dancers who are so amazing that
they can post things.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yes, because we can't go see them.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
But also, you know what, I'm involved in this project
right now, this television project, and I not kidding like
sometimes I think some of these TikTok personalities and Instagram
personalities who write and kind of create some of it
is unbelievable and they have millions of followers, and I
feel like, even as a casting agent, you would kind
(24:31):
of want to know, Oh my god, oh like yeah,
like Benito, like that incredible Benito. I can't think of
his last name. He's amazing and he has like four
million followers or something, and you look at him and
you think, like, oh my god, like that person can
do everything. He acts, he writes, he sings, he does costumes,
(24:52):
I mean he does. He's hilarious, and I think he is, like,
ultimately someone so incredibly castable. Benito Skinner is his nose especially,
and we love each other and we know each other.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
It just kind of popped into my popped into my.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Oh no, we have literally cast people leads and musicals
because we saw them on TikTok, you know, because it's
like a constant audition.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
It's a constantin so in that sense we love social
media and that sense. All right, so let's go into this.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
I feel like every single queen listening to this podcast
is going to want me to ask this question, which
is what are you looking for in an audition? I mean,
usually you're probably casting a specific thing, so you're looking
for a vocal range and a color hair or a
color eye.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Or something like that, right, or a comedy if they're
doing you know, and just like that Sex in the City,
you know you're looking for someone. But the general thing
is someone who's going to come in And it sounds
so cliche, but who in this stark, unrealistic kind of room, right,
And I know it's a cold room coming into audition, yes,
but someone who's gonna move me and someone who's going
(25:53):
to make me feel something that I haven't been feeling
all day. I mean that sounds a little tricky, but
someone who's going to engage in the material, whether it
be that song or those five pages from Sex in
the City, and they're going to make me think differently,
and they're going to make me understand where they're coming
from and where they're going and really make a choice.
(26:15):
And that comes from being prepared and you know, coming
in and owning it. But there's nothing better when you
sit behind a desk and it makes you get up,
you know what I mean, because you're seeing somebody emote
or feel and instantly and that always excites me.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Is it personality that you can perceive? Is it technique
that they're extremely good at acting? Like, what is more
motivating to you? Do you prefer someone to walk in
and go like, oh my god, that person is insane.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
We have to cast that. Or do you like better
when people breathe and how to breathe and not how
to really really make a sound when they sing?
Speaker 1 (26:53):
You know right now, I like the first you know
you know what I meansality? Yeah, that the whole personality
is able to come through the material through the song.
You know that it makes me feel you say Annalie
Ashford before hmm? I mean she was doing that when
she came in for one line in the Sex and
the City movie, or to be the understudy in the
Legally Blonde musical, like everything that you saw in Sweeney Todd.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
She brought that to one line in.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Sex and the City and you could feel, you know,
as the girl that was understanding you just get it.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
There's a whole.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Character there, and there's a whole world that makes you go,
I need to be with her. I need to see
more of it.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Right, So you're telling me that it took Annalie Ashford
a minute to start working and.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
To get no, yes, a minute.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I mean when I started seeing her, there might be
like five projects that I was casting that she did
like one or three lines, and then once she did those,
then it was like you just watched her go here here.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Just yeah, only because I've been watching her for at
least what ten years, And it's funny.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
It's true.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
She did have a real trajectory, you know, whereas like
a lot of other actors don't.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
You don't know who they are, and then you do
know who they are, you know.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Right, So back to this idea about what people do
in casting rooms or in auditions, right, is there something
that you can automatically say, like, just don't do that?
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Why does everybody do that? Is there one thing?
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, when they come in and they just start apologizing
and it comes out of insecurity, and it comes out
of fear, and it comes out of nerves. But it's
not helping them because they're doing exactly what they don't
want to be doing, but they're doing it, if that
makes any sense. They go, oh, I'm so sorry that
I didn't watch Yeah, you know, and I don't have
I didn't bring in all my music, or I didn't
(28:42):
get to read the script. Sometimes it's too much info,
you know, Just do the audition, I mean.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
I have a really funny story.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
When I was in performing arts high school, Alan Parker
was making fame, and that was the summer that I graduated.
He shot that movie the summer of nineteen seventy eight
or whatever the hell it was, right, and he auditioned
all of us in the class for the parts in
the movie. He ended up working with, for the most part,
older actors that looked younger, like Irene Cara was twenty
(29:13):
and she was playing fourteen, you know. But here we
were these fourteen year olds like auditioning, and I remember
like walking into his office Bernie, and the part was
for that character called Montgomery, and the part was like skinny, redheaded,
and I forgot what else it was. And I said
to him, excuse me, mister Parker, I am none for three,
(29:33):
so I don't know what the fuck and he slaughed
so hard. And then later in my life, like literally
right before he died, which was recently, someone said, you know,
I was talking to Alan Parker and he remembers meeting
you in nineteen seventy eight and you walking into the
office and going, I'm sorry, but I'm none for three.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
I don't know what I'm doing here.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
So It's like you're saying, don't apologize, except I was going,
please don't cast me, you know, And so I guess
what I'm saying saying, is there really anything you can
do wrong or right? You know, besides what you said
being prepared? Is there a secret, Darling, a secret?
Speaker 1 (30:09):
You know? The secret is knowing when you come in
the room that everybody there wants to cast you. I mean,
everybody wants it to be the perfect blind date, right,
And it's like, I mean it sounds cliche, but be
your best self so that they'll want to see you
on a second date.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
You know.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
I always think every audition is like a blind date.
You know, when you go to a blind date, you're
looking in the mirror, you're thinking about what you're wearing,
You're thinking about what you're going to talk about. Like
all of that thought process goes into that date, so
to speak. So every audition you have to think of
as the same thing that everybody wants it to be good.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
So just be able to breathe and be who you are.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
But you said something amazing, which is that people want
to cast you when you walk in. That is not
what you feel when you walk into an audition. I
feel the exact opposite of that. You feel like these
people are so bored, they just want to go home.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
They just had luck? Did they have luck? Think about
a better chance?
Speaker 1 (31:07):
But think about why are you walking in the room
thinking that? No one said that to you? But that
is exactly what eight out of ten actors are thinking.
So it's a thinking thing. It's like, why think that
way when you could think, oh my god, they're so
excited I could maybe get this part today.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
This is it's like a crazy, crazy simple thing. So
what you're saying is the best possible thing to keep
in mind when you're in an audition, which is that
people are dying for you to be right down. Part
This we don't get.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Now, this we do not get because it's you have
to accept it's already a given that you're in a
profession where you're not going to get every job that
you go in for. I mean, architects don't go in
for as many job interviews as an actor does. Dentists stone,
So it's a given you're not going to get a job.
So stop thinking about not geting getting the job.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
I want to ask you, as an expert in so
many things.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Is there advice you can give, first of all to
casting directors or people who want to get into theater
or movie casting or even production on that end of it.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Is there advice that you can give someone.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Yeah, if there's a young person who wants to go
into casting, that is great because we welcome that and
there are so many things that that person can do.
The Casting Society of America has a website that has
all of these programs for new really young people. I mean,
our office has fellowships. But really it's about start taking
(32:48):
note of everything you're watching or seeing and write down
who did you like in that episode of All in
the Family or who stood out for you when you
went to go see that show. Figure out who that
was in the place that you liked. Start keeping track
of your taste and the actors that you like, and
not just the obvious Robert de Niro and Meryl Streep
of course we like them, But who did you like
(33:11):
when you went to see Flowers of the Moon, even
if it was like a small part, and recognize and
look up on IMDb who played that part. Like, there's
so many things you could do as a young person.
I tell that to the young assistance in my office.
It's like start keeping encyclopedia of the actors that really
turned you on or that removed you, so that when
(33:32):
you do have that casting interview or that casting job,
you know, I hope you can talk about the actors
that you saw and that you liked and go see everything.
You have to watch everything you can have to go
see and go see everything if you're wanting to go
into casting.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
You know, can you teach this? Can you teach taste?
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Yes, I think there's something you can teach. You can't
teach taste.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I mean I don't know, can you in your world?
Speaker 3 (33:56):
You know?
Speaker 2 (33:56):
I mean it's a tricky I know it's a tricky.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Not no, I mean talking about the same world, because
I'm thinking about like performing arts high school and them
kind of knowing at these auditions or with musicians, especially
with musicians, there are people who play beautifully, but they
just have terrible taste. And like if you're a jazz musician,
they do with solo and it's like, oh, stop playing
and they're great and technically it's so great, and the
(34:20):
breath control and it just sounds boring or trite to something.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
So that's the one thing you can't teach, you know, right,
you can acquire a taste, you can acquire better taste.
I don't know if you can. You have to start
with a.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Very very young, young, young spirit to influence how they
see things, to influence their taste. But I don't think
you can teach tastes. You know, have you mentored anybody?
Have you felt very strongly about?
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Have you find casting agents to work at Telsey and Co?
What is it called Telsey and Co?
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Telsea office?
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Yes, you know, before the shutdown, we used to have
a huge internship program for three month months and it
was out of those interns there was always the star
intern who then I winded up hiring as the company
was expanding. You know, there's thirteen fifteen senior casting directors
here and ten of them were interns at one time.
(35:14):
I mean they've all been here twenty nine to fifteen
years and they all were interns at one time. Right now,
we don't have an internship program. We have a fellowship program,
and that's how we're finding new casting people coming up
the pipeline. You know, we've done a real good job
in the last three years of having much more members
(35:37):
of color in our casting field.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Oh, which is great? Which is that's what interesting?
Speaker 3 (35:43):
I know, Darling, do you like casting Broadway shows better
than you like casting movies or TV?
Speaker 2 (35:50):
You could be honest, no, I can you know?
Speaker 1 (35:51):
And this is like the honest answer because I get
asked all the time. I think because I'm lucky enough,
and I kissed the ground because I get to work
in all three mediums. It always rotates. So just when
you're like, oh my god, how can we keep doing
this Broadway show? Then I get to do a movie
and it's up and it's out in three months. And
then I get to work on a TV show and
(36:13):
that's like faster than hell. You have one week to
find a whole cast and then the episode's over, right.
So I really do love all three. I like the
ongoing collaboration that happens in the theater because it lasts
so long. You know, even if I in film, I
have repeat directors like Rob Marshall or John Chew that
I've been lucky enough to work with, so you have
(36:34):
a lasting collaboration, but sometimes it's so short that you don't,
you know, get the lifeline right in the theater, you know,
it's eight years of Hamilton or twenty years of Wicked.
Oh so you're working with the teams for twenty years, so.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
That I thought, I swear to god, this is such
a surprising answer to me, because I thought you were
going to say I'm lucky enough to actually have such
a big stake in the Broadway because it's such a tiny,
tiny Broadway is really not a very I.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Mean, that's what's a joy the theater because of that,
you know what I mean? But is that why you
live in New York? Like, that's why I thought.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
That's why I say to myself, if you really had
designs on casting every movie and every street movie, you
probably would have moved.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
To LA right. And I love the theater.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
I mean that's why I have mcc as well. And
so yeah, the theater is for me the thrill.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Right. And by the way, like three out of five
flights I take to Los Angeles myself a year. I
see you on I've never run into a person on
one particular path more than you. It's crazy, Darling. Has
there ever been like something that you went like, oh god,
I can't believe I just why did I cast that
(37:48):
person in that part? Oh?
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Of course, But I'm not naming that here, are you crazy? Sure?
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Okay, I won't name it either, But like, so that
doesn't affect your business people and go like, yeah, that
was a disaster or something.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
When I go, I mean, it doesn't seem like it
because you know, no, I don't think so, but no,
but there are times where I have felt when like, oh,
I wish I showed them a better option, you know,
or another option, or sometimes you know you can't help it.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Say I thought, I said, been the other guy the
O you know, yeah, exactly, Well, go ahead, don't listen
to me. I don't listen to me.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
And then I have to ask you a few questions
about your personal kind of commitment to it. Like I
think that every single artist, every single person who works
in the arts, there's some kind of like a commitment.
Do you have any regrets? Did you sacrifice anything in
your life in order to have this incredible position and
(38:54):
this incredible place in the world.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Uh, well, that's such a good question. That's like a
therapy question.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
I know, I know it is a therapy question, but yeah,
I think I love what I get to do every day,
and I feel bad at times that I don't have
any other things in my life, you know, as close
as I am with my sons and Anne, and we
are all very close. Like I wasn't there for such
(39:20):
and such, or I wasn't there for such and such, right,
you know you know what I mean? So sometimes or
sometimes the family stuff, and then I wouldn't know what
else I could do because I was spending so much
time doing MCC and the casting. Like I don't have
any other trade, right, I don't know if that's bad.
I don't want another one, but I get it.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
I get it. Tell us a little bit about MCC.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
What is MCC.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Yeah, it's a not for profit theater company, an off
Broadway theater company that's been around thirty eight years that
I founded with the late Bob Lapone and Bill Chandler.
And we are on fifty second Street between tenth and
eleventh Avenues. Thank you, Mayor Bloomberg. That's our theater. I
mean the casting office is here too, but that's the theater.
(40:08):
We have a two hundred and fifty seat theater and
we have a black box one hundred seat theater. And
it's this wonderful complex that, thank you, Mayor Bloomberg, started
to build that We moved in in twenty nineteen finally
because we used to be down at the Lortel, and
everything is here. The offices are here, are our high
school programs after school, so the building is filled with
(40:28):
high school students, or it's filled with Gavin Kreele rehearsing
his show that starts next week, or Jason Robert Brown's
shows and auditions because that starts rehearsals in December. So
it's like a little campus over here with the two
theaters and the rehearsal rooms and the offices.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
And what is the mission? First of all, what does
MCC stands for.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
It was Manhattan Class Company because we all came out
of an NYU class at least the original family members,
but not a great name, so we just go by MCC,
you know. But it's to work on plays and musicals
that get you as an audience to talk whether you
like the player, don't like the play. We always say
there's going to be a third act, which is when
you leave talking about the experience, you know. And we
(41:11):
like to do things that push the envelope a little bit,
or that make you care or make you question.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
Is there a role model for MCC like, did you
go when you were a kid? Oh, if only I
had a theater company, Like, was there one specific one
that you were exposed to that you really admired?
Speaker 2 (41:31):
No, I don't.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
I mean Circle Rep. I guess you know it doesn't
exist anymore. But as a young person coming to New York,
and I would usher there all the time. And gods,
you know, chool right was on Seventh Avenue and Sheridan Square,
my goodness, and they were doing new plays, and they
were developing actors, and they were developing playwrights, and they
were it was a home for artists. And I think
that's what I've always responded to.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Right, I mean, because when I was a kid, and
I keep going back to my experience at Performing Arts
High School. That saved my life, Darling, That literally saved
my life because I had this really parochial, kind of
tiny little box that I lived in, and then somehow
a teacher said you don't belong in this box. You
need to audition, and she helped me and I got
in and I realized at that point when I started
(42:16):
going to that school, that life wasn't some scary, horrible thing,
but there was actually this wonderful aspect to it, which
was this thing I was very good at, you know,
and it saved my life.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
And I wish I could find like some kind of
national charity that did.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
This, you know, that kind of And I'm not talking
you know, like I'm on the board of New forty two,
which is great, but that's a very specific agenda. I'm
talking about like arts education, wherein you go into classrooms
in Kentucky and you say, here's a bunch of money
for like a Shakespeare class or a fencing class, or
a tumbling or whatever it is. You know, like a
(42:56):
modern dance class. That is what I would really like
to do. And like, so far, I haven't really found
that group. I don't really think they exist because I
don't think so either. No, we need to found this group, Darling,
because I do think art saves people's lives.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
You know.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
We're yeah, one day at a time, Yeah, totally. I
mean it, It really does.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
Know.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
It's why mcc we started this high school program.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
It's a program for after school for high school students,
inner city kids who want to learn about the art.
It doesn't it's not about whether they become an actor
or whether they become a playwright, but to be exposed
to what theater and can do, and it's the gift.
It's unbelievable. And you know, we've been doing it for
thirty years and we keep in touch with all the
alumni and some of them go on to be professional actors.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
But you need that.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
I feel like I was given that luckily by one
teacher who dragged me to a community theater.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
It's all about the teachers.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
And I feel as though the lessons to be learned
from the lessons of the theater or the performing arts
in general are so much more essential and important than
like certain kind of like maths that they teach in school.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
And it's like I will never use this information, you know.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Whereas like if you could give someone an acting class
or a theater writing class, or a classical music class
or something like, there is so much more. Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
Yeah, whether you become that or not, that gets you
through life. I have one final question for you. Do
you have imposta syndrome?
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Because I do not syndrome syndrome, but I do.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Go who the fuck are you?
Speaker 3 (44:36):
You know?
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Like I say that, like right, like why is this movie?
Start writing me back, like why are they writing me back,
like you know what I mean, Like, so, yes, I'm
always like, pinch me. I just was talking to so
and so you know right, yes, still I'm in awe
that I get to do this.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
So yes, I do have that.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
And Darling, I am obsessed with obituaries, Like that's the
first thing I do in the morning. I open the
New York Times and I literally go to the obituaries.
So what if you could write your own obituary what
you wanted to say? You're not answering the question. I
would answer the question.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
I would just say happy. I am just happy. That
said so so weird, but I am just ye happy.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
What do you mean you were happy in your life? Yeah,
and I am.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
Happy every day. Like I get excited about getting up
in the morning. I can't wait to start the day.
And I wake up and I'm ready because you don't
know what's going to happen today. Even if I have
twelve things on my calendar. It's like, oh my god,
I'm getting to talk to Isaac.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
Well, Darling, my friend Peter just said this to me.
He was like, life is so fabulous, even the problems.
It's also challenging, and so I was like, who are you?
Because I don't really do that. I kind of have
to pull myself out.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
I know so many people know even the problems are
a challenge for me, Like I'll take the problem and
turn it into a challenge, Like how can I.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Wow, make that go away? Where did you get it from?
I got happy for my dad. I mean, you know,
he's a little clueless, but he's happy, you know what
I mean? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (46:08):
And I don't know where I got the other thing,
the constant battery of like, oh well, why can't we
do that at midnight? There's still another hour left, right,
you know what I mean? I don't know where that
came from. I really don't know.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
Like the East Coast thing. That's an East Coast thing? Okay, Well, Darling.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Besides a production of Victor Victoria starring me on Broadway,
which I know you really want to task. Do you
have some dream project that you've never done that you
want to do?
Speaker 2 (46:35):
Oooooh?
Speaker 1 (46:38):
I feel like the musical Carry Even though we at
MCC gave it another shot ten years ago and it
was great, it also wasn't finished. And I always hold
on to doing that again because the score is really
good and I would love to be able to somehow
tell that story again.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
I'm there, I am there for Opening Night on that one, Darla. Okay,
so what do you want to promote?
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Promote people to pay attention to who casts that TV
show that they love or that movie that they love?
But projects, I hope everyone goes and sees The Color Purple,
which starts between Christmas. So it's the new color Purple,
which was so fun to work on, having done the
Broadway show, the Broadway Revival and then get to do
the movie.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
News flash, everyone is going to go see the guy.
I know it's really good, really really really good. Oh
my god, amazing.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
Stopcast Valang, I'm val.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
It's really good.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
All right.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
I love you and I love you all right, thank you.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
I just love everything about that conversation. Okay, seriously, I
love how it came from nowhere, right. Bernie Telsey's career
came from literally someone calling and saying, would you cast
this little show called Rent?
Speaker 2 (47:58):
And then he was like no, no, no, no no no.
He didn't want to.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
He went into it reluctantly, and basically it set him
on this fabulous, fabulous trajectory. And then also this incredible
piece of advice that from now on is going to
burn centrally in my brain whenever I'm auditioning for anything,
which is that the casting directors you're standing in front
(48:22):
of are absolutely dying for you to be great. They
want you to be great, And so knowing that just
kind of relieves so much of the tension in the room,
so much of the stress of the process.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
I think that was the real takeaway.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
The other thing that I now know about my friend
Bernie that I never knew was that he is always
this like really positive, optimistic, happy guy. You know, I
never kind of knew that about him, And you know,
I got to say I relate to that, even though
all I do is complain and all I do is
like start by seeing the dark side of things. In
(49:00):
the end, I think it is this weird sort of
optimism that pushes through all of that. Eventually it reaches
the upper upper echelons of my brain and I push
forward and I do it based on optimism. Anyway, thank
you so much for listening. What a pleasure this was
today and sort of highlight I think of my experiences
(49:21):
so far on this podcast.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
Darlings.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
If you enjoyed this episode, do me a favor and
tell someone, Tell a friend, tell your mother, tell your cousin,
tell everyone you know.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Okay, and be sure to rate the show. I love
rating stuff.
Speaker 3 (49:39):
Go on and rate and review the show on Apple
Podcasts so more people can hear about it. It makes
such a gigantic difference and like it takes a second,
so go on and do it. And if you want
more fun content videos and posts of all kinds, follow
the show on Instagram and TikTok at Hello Isaac podcast
(50:02):
And by the way, check me out on Instagram and
TikTok at. I am Isaac Musrahi. This is Isaac, Missrahi.
Thank you, I love you and I never thought I'd
say this, but goodbye Isaac. Hello Isaac is produced by
Imagine Audio Awfully Nice and I AM Entertainment for iHeartMedia.
(50:26):
The series is hosted by Me Isaac Msrahi. Hello Isaac
is produced by Robin Gelfenbein. The senior producers are Jesse
Burton and John Assanti, and is executive produced by Ron Howard,
Brian Grazer, Carral Welker, and Nathan Klokey at Imagine Audio
Production Management from Katie Hodges, Sound design and mixing by
(50:47):
Cedric Wilson. Original music composed by Ben Waltzer. A special
thanks to Neil Phelps and Sarah katanak At.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
I AM Entertainment
Speaker 1 (51:00):
H
I always think every audition is like a blind date.
When you go to a blind date, you're looking in
the mirror, you're thinking about what you're wearing, you're thinking
about what you're going to talk about. Like all of
that thought process goes into that date, so to speak.
So every audition you have to think of as the
same thing that everybody wants it to be good.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
So just be able to breathe and be who you are.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
This is Hello Isaac, my podcast about the idea of
success and how failure affects it. I'm Isaac Msrahi, and
in this episode, I talk to award winning casting director
and co founder of the MCC Theater Bernie Telsey.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hello, Isaac, it's Bernie Telsey. Could you give me a call.
I want to talk to you about this design idea I.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Have on this podcast. I think it's important not just
to talk to like gigantic movie stars and writers and
TV stars, but also to people who are just really
good at what they do. It's one of the things
we talk about all the time, especially in the performing arts,
and today I'm going to talk to Bernie Telsey, whom
(01:07):
I've known for thirty five years or something. For a really,
really long time. Bernie is definitely one of the most
important casting directors alive. He's cast Broadway shows like Rent
and Wicked and In the Heights and TV shows like
This Is Us and Only Murders in the Building and
the Gilded Age, plus jillions and jillions of other things. Anyway,
(01:29):
I think this is a great episode. If you're an
actor or a performer, or if you know an actor
and a performer, you should tell them to tune in
and listen to this because Bernie gives a lot of
great advice.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
So let's waste no time. Let's get right into this.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Bernie Telsey Darling, Hi, Isaac, you look good. Your hair
looks good. Did you just get a haircut or something.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
No, it's just it's actually growing, and it's you know, messy.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Mess me too, Darling. Where do you work out these days?
Do you still go to Manhattan Plaza?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yes, in the early early morning, do you? Because I
don't go anymore. I can't go anymore, you know, Oh
my god, you always went well.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I went swimming. I liked the pool right here. But
remember the crazy old Queen c A who sort of
ran the pool. No, I never lived died well, he
died over COVID.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
So I don't go.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
I just had to stop going. Bernie and I go
to the same gym, or used to go to the
same gym. But that's not how I know you. I
know you for about one hundred years. Yeah, it's amazing,
And yet, Darling, I know so little about your history.
Like where are you from? Are you from New York
City proper?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, I'm from Elmont, New York, which is like the
first town of Nassau County, So I grew up there
the whole time until I moved to the city.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
And what brought you to the city.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Oh, I could not wait to get away from Long
Island and get to Manhattan.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Where I went. Were you a theater major?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah? I was an acting major in a theater management major,
because I always wanted to start a theater, which thankfully
i'm doing.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Where do you think that gene comes from? Because parents
don't exactly encourage their kids to do this, and they didn't.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Mine certainly did it. My mother encouraged me to take accounting.
But oh godd bless her.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
But because Bernie Telsey, that's a perfect thing for the county.
I'll just say, but it did get me my first job,
so credit to her.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
But it started by going to the day camp, you know,
in doing sound of Music and Fiddler on the roof,
playing Teva at twelve years old.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
You can tell me everything, Keep going, keep going.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
I went to a day camp, you know, where I
played the von Trapp's son, and then the next year
I played Tevier.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Wow, so you went from playing Nazis to playing Yeah,
go on, it's.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
A whole thing.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
But really, then I got into high school and we
didn't have a big drama department, but we had a
little drama club, and I got really friendly with one
of my teachers, Ronnie Russo, who was a music teacher,
and he just happened to also live like close by
where I lived, and he ran a theater company all
the way out of Long Island, and I just started
going with him after school. You know, my dad worked
(04:14):
at night, my mom didn't drive, and I would go
with him after school. And then I was in the
chorus of this community theater that rehearsed, you know, seven
to ten. The only way to get there was to
drive with him and drive back home with him. And
I started working in the office as a ninth grader
and a tenth grader seeing how this theater company was
sort of running and learning about admin and I was
(04:37):
hanging out with all these thirty year olds as a teenager,
and I got the taste of it.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Bernie, I'm going to ask you this question about your
relationship with your parents, because I know that you have
a really, really, really close relationship with your kids, you know,
but it was a different time. Were they aware that
you were doing all this? No?
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I mean they were aware because they came to the
weekend performance, you know, of Mana Lamacha and I was
a horse or I was a jet in the West
Side story, But they didn't know where I was after school,
that I was actually helping in the office and getting
home at one am. I mean, they didn't, right, you know.
God bless my dad. He just worked all the time
(05:17):
at nights and on the weekend, you know, he was
in retail. So they knew I was doing the theater,
but they had no sense that that's what I was
going to do for my life.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
I often think the adversity that I experienced as a
kid prepared me for the world and made me go
out there and do something.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I think that do you feel that way about your own? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Really, and again I love my folks, but it made
me like hungry because nothing was being sort of given
to me or directed me that I had to sort
of find it by the peers that I met who
were ten years older, fifteen years older. Like even college
was like, oh, go to the community college down the block,
and it was like, there's got to be something else.
(05:59):
And sought out NYU and figured it out and borrowed
money and you know the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
And listen, you are known in the world as a
great casting director, the greatest casting director director, and so
how did that occur to you?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Like how did you make the leap.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
From community theater to NYU to musical production or something
like that and then into casting.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I knew what a casting director was. I knew who
like JULIETT.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Taylor doing all the Woody Allen movies, right, you know,
as a young actor, but I didn't really know what
they actually do as a job. And I went to
NYU and I was in the theater management program, who
at that time was taught by all these working professionals
in New York, Like the way if I was teaching
or you were teaching now, and they wanted to set
you up for all these producing jobs, you know, go
(06:47):
work for Annie Eisenberger, go work for the Schuberts. And
I had already met Bob Lapone, and I was like, no,
we're starting a theater company the day after I graduate,
so really, I don't want to go work for somebody else.
And then it was my admin teacher said, I know
these two casting directors who are looking for somebody to
work part time. And I thought, oh, I could do
(07:07):
part time because that won't interfere with my dreams.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
And I worked for them part time, Meg Simon and
Frank Cuman, and I just stayed there for six years.
I mean I loved every minute of that. And they
started taking me to the theater every night, and you know,
having a place to talk about your taste and what
you like and what you're seeing around town.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
And you know, I was acting for a little bit.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
I understudied Matthew Broderick on Brighton Beach Memoirs, but really
I started seeing actors and I was like, oh, I
can't do that. I'm not that good, Like that's really good.
How can I help that really good?
Speaker 2 (07:45):
You know? And I just stayed in casting.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
I mean, I loved Meghan fran They taught me so much.
And then I went on to go freelance with Resa
Billy and Billy Hopkins, helping them on their movies that
they were doing, Desperately Taking Susan and Fatal Attraction, and
then Richard Avedon asked them to do a commercial and
we did this like IBM commercial, and of course I
(08:08):
only knew off Broadway actors. I knew theater actors, and
we put you know, Ron Vadder from the Performance Garage
and Bob Joy and Larry Brigman, all these great theater
actors in their first commercials. And the commercial took off
in the ad agency world, in the advertising world, and
then Recent and Billy started getting all these calls for commercials,
and they were like, we're not doing commercials.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
We have too many movies. You go do them. Gop,
go open up your own shed and do commercials.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
And it became the sort of perfect thing for me
to do while I was starting this theater company, because
I was like doing commercials every day, bringing in theater people,
and you know, we did any Liebowitz's commercial. You know,
all these cool people that were doing commercials at the time.
We were casting them and it was great. And then
that led to like regional theater. A young director who
(09:00):
I knew said come do this play, and then it
all sort of fell into doing Rent off Broadway. That
was when Jim Nicola at the workshop said we're doing
this little musical and I tried to turn it down.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
I mean, I was like, I don't know, and he
was like, no, please do this musical. We saw that
you did this one for Peter Seller's. Peter Seller's the director,
the director, the opera director.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
I had directed a rock opera for him that Jim's
that director mean, you can't sorry cast for Peter, and
Jim saw that and thought, well, that's what we need
in our new rock opera called Rent.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
What I love about this story is how he approached
you and you were kind of reluctant to do it,
and then it became the thing that puts you on
the map.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
And the best experience I've ever had in my life, because.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
You've ever had in your life, You've ever had in
the theater for sure, right.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, and not because you know, we didn't know what
it was.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
But it was so hard because it was at a
time when they weren't off Boardbay musicals like there are
now every other week, and there wasn't rock pop musicals.
It was Le Miz and Saigon. And as I say
to agents all the time, nobody wanted their client to
do a two hundred dollars a job off Broadway when
they could be on the road and do the spear
(10:16):
Carrier in Ley Miz. You know, nobody hundred and fifty dollars,
you know, and nobody wanted to do it. And I
didn't know what I was doing. I mean, I knew
what I was doing, but it wasn't like I had
a list of twenty.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Ideas, right.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
So like, for instance, I'm trying to think of the cast,
Daphne Rubin, Veige, Adam pest Write, Adam Pescal, jessel Mark,
you really, Jesse L Martin, a.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Few names he exactly. So these are people that owe
their careers because of it.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
But wait a minute, but you were there casting commercials
and you had all of these actors that you knew
and commercial performers. This is a very specific kind of
vocal range that you were casting and somehow.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
What did you do? Did you hold?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
I was like, yeah, we were holding auditions. We were
looking under every rock possible. Wow, because how was I
going to know a list of twenty year olds who
could sing like the way Jonathan Larson wanted them to sing.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
So we just kept digging and seeing everyone.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
And it made you realize that is so part of
the job with casting, depending on the project, is really
searching and looking.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
You know.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
We would try to do an open call, no one's coming.
It wasn't like when it went to Broadway, four thousand.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
People showed up for that call. Right.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
We would put like an ad in the back of
the Village Voice, you know, like thinking like you want
to be a rock star, you know, didn't even say
it was theater and I had a little office at
the time, and in the back room was like thirty
men who looked like Alice Cooper and Adam Pascal and
it was like please God sing please, you know what
(11:50):
I mean.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
And Adam someone be able to say yeah, wow.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
You know, Adam was so handsome and sang like a
you know, amazing wow. He got cast. But it was great.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
I believe this story is so inspiring to me how
sort of came from kind of nothing. What I do
remember about Rent was that it was a long journey. Yes,
it started as this workshop, and then there was another
workshop and another worship, and there was this kind of
core bunch of people that kept showing up for the
different workshop residences for instance. And then finally it was
a success at at the workshop at the workshop, and
(12:25):
there was a big buzz about it. People, my god,
from the first reading. But did casting that change your life?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I did?
Speaker 3 (12:30):
All of a sudden people start showing up for audition.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Because then all of a sudden producers were calling and saying, oh,
come do this. You know, I'm producing Prison Laughter on
Broadway or Paul Simon, I'm producing The kpe Man.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
You know. Then all of a sudden, it was like,
oh my god.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
And thankfully my wife was like, you need to get
an office and stop using the mcc phone and you
have a real business now. And I got space and
because I was a staff for two at the time,
you know, and all of a sudden, Rent was having
five national tours, right.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
And you know, casting your damn head off.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, but it was fun. It was so much fun,
and it still is so much fun. It's a great,
great job.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Well, listen, there was this sharp like ascent for you
after that, like you sort of started taking off, not
just with fabulous projects and new projects, but also, like
you said, with regional companies of rent and different things
and all of a sudden jobs on a coming away.
Was there a moment where you failed or had like
a big setback that you learned a great deal from
(13:35):
It wasn't like a.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Career setback, I don't think.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
I mean, I think part of my goal was also
when I saw that casting really can be a profession,
and how do we sort of wake up the world
to know that we are part of a creative team
and it is a creative job and no different like
a costume designer or a set designer, you know, and
still it's not a profession that people know about or
a job that people know about.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
It. All right, so let's talk about it, because first
of all, what do you do someone calls you or
do you call them? Like, for instance, let's talk about
the most recent production that I saw, which was Sweeney Todd,
Right that Josh Grobin, that idea that is such a
great idea. I don't know who thought of that. Annalie Ashford, Like,
(14:21):
the casting of that is so genius.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I can't take any credit for that because when Tommy Cale,
the director called, they already knew. He and Josh had
already discussed I doing this production with Steven Seinheim, and
then they came to me and said, let's put a
reading together. We want to hear it with Josh with
the intention of doing a Broadway revival.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
I see, so I was about Anne. Yeah, we will
bring in that amazing child from Stranger Things.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Great. Oh my god, he was so.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
He was so perfectly perfectly cast to that. It was
a lot of inspiring casting in that thing.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
And then to have a lot of new people to
get their Broadway debuts and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
But yeah, Darling, is there no Tony Award that goes
to a casting director as yet? No, there is no
Tony Award, no Tony Award.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
There is no Oscar as I can think, but there
is an Emmy, right, but there's no Oscar either. And
it's something we really all as an industry.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
It should be.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
It's, you know, like it needs to be because it
is mostly what makes the show happen.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Right, It's how you see the show, it's how you win,
it's has show you experience the show. I mean that Emmys,
thank god, Yes, there are there are five categories for casting.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Well who do we speak to? What petition do we sign? Seriously, Darling,
it's the Broadway League. Go fund page? Do we start
for this?
Speaker 1 (15:49):
But it's the Broadway League for the Tonys and the Oscar.
But you know they are talking about it. I don't know,
at least in the Oscar world. You know it's it's coming.
We as casting gregers have brought it up.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
So oh nos.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
But well I'm glad to hear that because it doesn't
compute to me, and I would be interested.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Well, I think audiences would be interested because everyone at
home is always casting it, you know, you know what
I mean. I mean, especially with the years of American
Idol and the Voice and all of that kind of stuff. Yes,
we've all learned to have an opinion, So why not so.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
When you're casting something, describe your life a little bit.
I mean, I can imagine there was a point in
your life where you were just holding a lot of
auditions and seeing a lot of people, and then it
kind of spread and you right, Oh is that true?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Oh yes?
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Still, now I have a staff and there's thirty people
here who are every day doing auditions for something. But
how it starts is we get the call, like from
Tommy Kale or from a producer Jeffrey Seller or and say,
we have this project. We want to do a revival
of Sweeney Todd, or we want to do this brand
new musical some like it Hot or whatever it is.
And then we asked to see if there's any material
(16:59):
we can read, if it's something brand new or score
that we can listen to. And then I try to
spend as much time with the director, a producer and
the writers so we could get inside them to understand
what is it that they're writing and what is it
that they're visioning that we can then supply the options
to them, and then we go away and think of
(17:21):
our ideas.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Sometimes we do.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Lists if we're talking about a star vehicle for Broadway
play revival, and sometimes we're like, Okay, let us show
you these twenty ideas for this one role and twenty
ideas for this other role. Sometimes we do live auditions
in the room. Sometimes we're doing tapes with people, or
we're doing zooms like this right, and we're constantly trying
(17:44):
to put a collage of a company together.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
And does it ever not work? Do you ever not
cast someone? What's that?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
My god?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yes? And then you keep going.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
I mean you're constantly collaborating with the director and they're like,
that's not it.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Did you ever get fired because it was like, I
can't with Bernie, he's we brought in five five days
of being cast.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Not not in the middle of a project like that.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
But sometimes a lot of these shows go through stages
and you cast the first reading and then the second
reading is nineteen months later, and then you get the
call that, oh, they decided to go with someone else.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Right, it happened. Wow, you know, who wha wha, wha,
whoa whoa wah, Wow, that happens.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
But like you know, I'm we're all very tight in
the theater world as casting directors, so we don't mind.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
So you understand, you get it. But how much of
your job is about negotiations?
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Oh, good question. In the theater world, we actually don't
do that. There's a general manager who actually makes the
deals for all the actors. We're there to help when
things are like not moving forward, and we try to
get involved when the GM asks us.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
But in film and TV. We do all the negotiations.
I mean it's a different.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Mean let's say Josh Grubin wasn't attached just me. He taught,
and they said, we really want Josh Grobin get them
for us, you know, and then you have to make
the contact or something, and then you have to say, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Then we go after that agent and try to sell
the project and try to entice that actor. Oh, come
meet the director. Can you come meet this. How about
we do a reading out loud so you could see
if you like it. I mean we have to try to,
you know, entice them to get involved. And then every
day it's a negotiation of something some you know, I
mean like selling somebody the idea of something right, you know,
(19:32):
Like Jesse el Martin will always tell me if you
look at all of our original rent auditions, there's like
seven days of auditions and everyone has Jesse L Martin,
no show didn't show up.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Wow, you know, because it was like, I don't want
to do a musical. I'm not a singer.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
And I drove up to Connecticut and I was like, Jesse,
you have to come in to rent, you know. So
you know, it's not always like that, but you're always
either negotiating with the agent to try to get people
in to coax people. Yeah, because you know, many actors
have too many choices.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
I had this incredible talk with this director yesterday. It
was so inspiring, and he was talking about a person
that he wanted to cast in a role in a
movie and how he kept like sort of seeing him
at dinner and go over at the.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Table and go hey blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
And then finally this actor was like, no, no, no,
And then the casting person put him in front and said,
or they just set up a meeting through a casting director,
And all of a sudden, this actor was like, oh,
is this what you were talking? It's sometime it's unbelievable.
How like sometimes you can only get things done through
the right channels, right, How much of that is true?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
How much of your job is about.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Kind of networking and knowing people and making no deals
And you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
And I love agents and managers and whatnot because I
talked to him every day, do you but it is
about well.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
I know I have to, but I'm getting I like
some of them too.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
You don't always know what's getting to the actor, you
know what I mean. And it's a people business. And
luckily because of the NCC theater, I have other relationships
with actors because sometimes they're in my theater and I'm
in their dressing room with them.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
It's not you know, the scary casting director behind the desk.
Now they're already here.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
So as I know actors, I mean, I don't go
around the agent, but I'll go to the agent and
then also.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Go to the actor, right.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
You know, if I can to say, like, do you
know about this? I'm sure your agent gave you this,
hope you can do it, wow, Because it's a people business.
It's not like it's anything shady. It's just the more
ways you can contact people the better. Always, as you
must know in your field, I do.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
What I'm scared of these days, speaking of my field
and other fields, in all fields, is that social media
plays a big part in it, you know, and terrifying
a little.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
I mean, do you run up against that.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
I'm sure in TV you have to run up against
where someone where you have an idea for someone great
to cast in something, and they go, oh, they only
have fifteen followers on social media so we can't, I mean,
tell me about that.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah, it's not as black and white as that.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
But everyone is always bringing up, now, how many followers
they have. It's always being discussed. Is it ever really
getting in the way.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Sometimes? Well, you know what I mean. First, now, what
I have to tell you.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
I was pitching a show to a TV executive and
I finally got in front of them. I won't mentioned
who it wasn't this person runs the studio, you know,
and they were going to make a decision, and they
changed the subject that we were about to pitch the show,
and all they wanted to talk about was like social
media following and we should probably think about our social
(22:50):
media following. And it was like, well okay, like it
was dead in the water at this meeting. You know,
that was so difficult to get you know, yeah, it's
really hard.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
That's because the main conversation in all circles, even in
the theater.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
You know.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Again, it's not getting in the way of necessarily someone
getting hired or not, but it's just talked about too much,
or then it's talked about that actor's presence on social media.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
You know, you know, I mean too much, too little.
It's that kind of stuff. Do you have fun with
social media? Do you like it? Do you go on it?
I have an Instagram page. Our casting office now has
an Instagram page.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
We really resisted it for a long long time, and
the younger people in my office encouraged me to have
it so we can talk about all the shows, not
from a bragging but congratulate the casts who are opening
in such and such or oh, look, the trailer for
Color Purple came out, shouldn't we help promote that. So
(23:48):
we're just starting that and then I'll go on Instagram sometimes,
but people in my office use it all the time,
you know, so that's a great way to find young actors.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Well that's what I'm saying. Yeah, that's why I kind of.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
We're on TikTok all the time from a sense of
looking for talent or dancers who are so amazing that
they can post things.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yes, because we can't go see them.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
But also, you know what, I'm involved in this project
right now, this television project, and I not kidding like
sometimes I think some of these TikTok personalities and Instagram
personalities who write and kind of create some of it
is unbelievable and they have millions of followers, and I
feel like, even as a casting agent, you would kind
(24:31):
of want to know, Oh my god, oh like yeah,
like Benito, like that incredible Benito. I can't think of
his last name. He's amazing and he has like four
million followers or something, and you look at him and
you think, like, oh my god, like that person can
do everything. He acts, he writes, he sings, he does costumes,
(24:52):
I mean he does. He's hilarious, and I think he is, like,
ultimately someone so incredibly castable. Benito Skinner is his nose especially,
and we love each other and we know each other.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
It just kind of popped into my popped into my.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Oh no, we have literally cast people leads and musicals
because we saw them on TikTok, you know, because it's
like a constant audition.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
It's a constantin so in that sense we love social
media and that sense. All right, so let's go into this.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
I feel like every single queen listening to this podcast
is going to want me to ask this question, which
is what are you looking for in an audition? I mean,
usually you're probably casting a specific thing, so you're looking
for a vocal range and a color hair or a
color eye.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Or something like that, right, or a comedy if they're
doing you know, and just like that Sex in the City,
you know you're looking for someone. But the general thing
is someone who's going to come in And it sounds
so cliche, but who in this stark, unrealistic kind of room, right,
And I know it's a cold room coming into audition, yes,
but someone who's gonna move me and someone who's going
(25:53):
to make me feel something that I haven't been feeling
all day. I mean that sounds a little tricky, but
someone who's going to engage in the material, whether it
be that song or those five pages from Sex in
the City, and they're going to make me think differently,
and they're going to make me understand where they're coming
from and where they're going and really make a choice.
(26:15):
And that comes from being prepared and you know, coming
in and owning it. But there's nothing better when you
sit behind a desk and it makes you get up,
you know what I mean, because you're seeing somebody emote
or feel and instantly and that always excites me.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Is it personality that you can perceive? Is it technique
that they're extremely good at acting? Like, what is more
motivating to you? Do you prefer someone to walk in
and go like, oh my god, that person is insane.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
We have to cast that. Or do you like better
when people breathe and how to breathe and not how
to really really make a sound when they sing?
Speaker 1 (26:53):
You know right now, I like the first you know
you know what I meansality? Yeah, that the whole personality
is able to come through the material through the song.
You know that it makes me feel you say Annalie
Ashford before hmm? I mean she was doing that when
she came in for one line in the Sex and
the City movie, or to be the understudy in the
Legally Blonde musical, like everything that you saw in Sweeney Todd.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
She brought that to one line in.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Sex and the City and you could feel, you know,
as the girl that was understanding you just get it.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
There's a whole.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Character there, and there's a whole world that makes you go,
I need to be with her. I need to see
more of it.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Right, So you're telling me that it took Annalie Ashford
a minute to start working and.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
To get no, yes, a minute.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I mean when I started seeing her, there might be
like five projects that I was casting that she did
like one or three lines, and then once she did those,
then it was like you just watched her go here here.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Just yeah, only because I've been watching her for at
least what ten years, And it's funny.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
It's true.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
She did have a real trajectory, you know, whereas like
a lot of other actors don't.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
You don't know who they are, and then you do
know who they are, you know.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Right, So back to this idea about what people do
in casting rooms or in auditions, right, is there something
that you can automatically say, like, just don't do that?
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Why does everybody do that? Is there one thing?
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, when they come in and they just start apologizing
and it comes out of insecurity, and it comes out
of fear, and it comes out of nerves. But it's
not helping them because they're doing exactly what they don't
want to be doing, but they're doing it, if that
makes any sense. They go, oh, I'm so sorry that
I didn't watch Yeah, you know, and I don't have
I didn't bring in all my music, or I didn't
(28:42):
get to read the script. Sometimes it's too much info,
you know, Just do the audition, I mean.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
I have a really funny story.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
When I was in performing arts high school, Alan Parker
was making fame, and that was the summer that I graduated.
He shot that movie the summer of nineteen seventy eight
or whatever the hell it was, right, and he auditioned
all of us in the class for the parts in
the movie. He ended up working with, for the most part,
older actors that looked younger, like Irene Cara was twenty
(29:13):
and she was playing fourteen, you know. But here we
were these fourteen year olds like auditioning, and I remember
like walking into his office Bernie, and the part was
for that character called Montgomery, and the part was like skinny, redheaded,
and I forgot what else it was. And I said
to him, excuse me, mister Parker, I am none for three,
(29:33):
so I don't know what the fuck and he slaughed
so hard. And then later in my life, like literally
right before he died, which was recently, someone said, you know,
I was talking to Alan Parker and he remembers meeting
you in nineteen seventy eight and you walking into the
office and going, I'm sorry, but I'm none for three.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
I don't know what I'm doing here.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
So It's like you're saying, don't apologize, except I was going,
please don't cast me, you know, And so I guess
what I'm saying saying, is there really anything you can
do wrong or right? You know, besides what you said
being prepared? Is there a secret, Darling, a secret?
Speaker 1 (30:09):
You know? The secret is knowing when you come in
the room that everybody there wants to cast you. I mean,
everybody wants it to be the perfect blind date, right,
And it's like, I mean it sounds cliche, but be
your best self so that they'll want to see you
on a second date.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
You know.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
I always think every audition is like a blind date.
You know, when you go to a blind date, you're
looking in the mirror, you're thinking about what you're wearing,
You're thinking about what you're going to talk about. Like
all of that thought process goes into that date, so
to speak. So every audition you have to think of
as the same thing that everybody wants it to be good.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
So just be able to breathe and be who you are.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
But you said something amazing, which is that people want
to cast you when you walk in. That is not
what you feel when you walk into an audition. I
feel the exact opposite of that. You feel like these
people are so bored, they just want to go home.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
They just had luck? Did they have luck? Think about
a better chance?
Speaker 1 (31:07):
But think about why are you walking in the room
thinking that? No one said that to you? But that
is exactly what eight out of ten actors are thinking.
So it's a thinking thing. It's like, why think that
way when you could think, oh my god, they're so
excited I could maybe get this part today.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
This is it's like a crazy, crazy simple thing. So
what you're saying is the best possible thing to keep
in mind when you're in an audition, which is that
people are dying for you to be right down. Part
This we don't get.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Now, this we do not get because it's you have
to accept it's already a given that you're in a
profession where you're not going to get every job that
you go in for. I mean, architects don't go in
for as many job interviews as an actor does. Dentists stone,
So it's a given you're not going to get a job.
So stop thinking about not geting getting the job.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
I want to ask you, as an expert in so
many things.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Is there advice you can give, first of all to
casting directors or people who want to get into theater
or movie casting or even production on that end of it.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Is there advice that you can give someone.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Yeah, if there's a young person who wants to go
into casting, that is great because we welcome that and
there are so many things that that person can do.
The Casting Society of America has a website that has
all of these programs for new really young people. I mean,
our office has fellowships. But really it's about start taking
(32:48):
note of everything you're watching or seeing and write down
who did you like in that episode of All in
the Family or who stood out for you when you
went to go see that show. Figure out who that
was in the place that you liked. Start keeping track
of your taste and the actors that you like, and
not just the obvious Robert de Niro and Meryl Streep
of course we like them, But who did you like
(33:11):
when you went to see Flowers of the Moon, even
if it was like a small part, and recognize and
look up on IMDb who played that part. Like, there's
so many things you could do as a young person.
I tell that to the young assistance in my office.
It's like start keeping encyclopedia of the actors that really
turned you on or that removed you, so that when
(33:32):
you do have that casting interview or that casting job,
you know, I hope you can talk about the actors
that you saw and that you liked and go see everything.
You have to watch everything you can have to go
see and go see everything if you're wanting to go
into casting.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
You know, can you teach this? Can you teach taste?
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Yes, I think there's something you can teach. You can't
teach taste.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I mean I don't know, can you in your world?
Speaker 3 (33:56):
You know?
Speaker 2 (33:56):
I mean it's a tricky I know it's a tricky.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Not no, I mean talking about the same world, because
I'm thinking about like performing arts high school and them
kind of knowing at these auditions or with musicians, especially
with musicians, there are people who play beautifully, but they
just have terrible taste. And like if you're a jazz musician,
they do with solo and it's like, oh, stop playing
and they're great and technically it's so great, and the
(34:20):
breath control and it just sounds boring or trite to something.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
So that's the one thing you can't teach, you know, right,
you can acquire a taste, you can acquire better taste.
I don't know if you can. You have to start
with a.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Very very young, young, young spirit to influence how they
see things, to influence their taste. But I don't think
you can teach tastes. You know, have you mentored anybody?
Have you felt very strongly about?
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Have you find casting agents to work at Telsey and Co?
What is it called Telsey and Co?
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Telsea office?
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Yes, you know, before the shutdown, we used to have
a huge internship program for three month months and it
was out of those interns there was always the star
intern who then I winded up hiring as the company
was expanding. You know, there's thirteen fifteen senior casting directors
here and ten of them were interns at one time.
(35:14):
I mean they've all been here twenty nine to fifteen
years and they all were interns at one time. Right now,
we don't have an internship program. We have a fellowship program,
and that's how we're finding new casting people coming up
the pipeline. You know, we've done a real good job
in the last three years of having much more members
(35:37):
of color in our casting field.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Oh, which is great? Which is that's what interesting?
Speaker 3 (35:43):
I know, Darling, do you like casting Broadway shows better
than you like casting movies or TV?
Speaker 2 (35:50):
You could be honest, no, I can you know?
Speaker 1 (35:51):
And this is like the honest answer because I get
asked all the time. I think because I'm lucky enough,
and I kissed the ground because I get to work
in all three mediums. It always rotates. So just when
you're like, oh my god, how can we keep doing
this Broadway show? Then I get to do a movie
and it's up and it's out in three months. And
then I get to work on a TV show and
(36:13):
that's like faster than hell. You have one week to
find a whole cast and then the episode's over, right.
So I really do love all three. I like the
ongoing collaboration that happens in the theater because it lasts
so long. You know, even if I in film, I
have repeat directors like Rob Marshall or John Chew that
I've been lucky enough to work with, so you have
(36:34):
a lasting collaboration, but sometimes it's so short that you don't,
you know, get the lifeline right in the theater, you know,
it's eight years of Hamilton or twenty years of Wicked.
Oh so you're working with the teams for twenty years, so.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
That I thought, I swear to god, this is such
a surprising answer to me, because I thought you were
going to say I'm lucky enough to actually have such
a big stake in the Broadway because it's such a tiny,
tiny Broadway is really not a very I.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Mean, that's what's a joy the theater because of that,
you know what I mean? But is that why you
live in New York? Like, that's why I thought.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
That's why I say to myself, if you really had
designs on casting every movie and every street movie, you
probably would have moved.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
To LA right. And I love the theater.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
I mean that's why I have mcc as well. And
so yeah, the theater is for me the thrill.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Right. And by the way, like three out of five
flights I take to Los Angeles myself a year. I
see you on I've never run into a person on
one particular path more than you. It's crazy, Darling. Has
there ever been like something that you went like, oh god,
I can't believe I just why did I cast that
(37:48):
person in that part? Oh?
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Of course, But I'm not naming that here, are you crazy? Sure?
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Okay, I won't name it either, But like, so that
doesn't affect your business people and go like, yeah, that
was a disaster or something.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
When I go, I mean, it doesn't seem like it
because you know, no, I don't think so, but no,
but there are times where I have felt when like, oh,
I wish I showed them a better option, you know,
or another option, or sometimes you know you can't help it.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Say I thought, I said, been the other guy the
O you know, yeah, exactly, Well, go ahead, don't listen
to me. I don't listen to me.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
And then I have to ask you a few questions
about your personal kind of commitment to it. Like I
think that every single artist, every single person who works
in the arts, there's some kind of like a commitment.
Do you have any regrets? Did you sacrifice anything in
your life in order to have this incredible position and
(38:54):
this incredible place in the world.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Uh, well, that's such a good question. That's like a
therapy question.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
I know, I know it is a therapy question, but yeah,
I think I love what I get to do every day,
and I feel bad at times that I don't have
any other things in my life, you know, as close
as I am with my sons and Anne, and we
are all very close. Like I wasn't there for such
(39:20):
and such, or I wasn't there for such and such, right,
you know you know what I mean? So sometimes or
sometimes the family stuff, and then I wouldn't know what
else I could do because I was spending so much
time doing MCC and the casting. Like I don't have
any other trade, right, I don't know if that's bad.
I don't want another one, but I get it.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
I get it. Tell us a little bit about MCC.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
What is MCC.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Yeah, it's a not for profit theater company, an off
Broadway theater company that's been around thirty eight years that
I founded with the late Bob Lapone and Bill Chandler.
And we are on fifty second Street between tenth and
eleventh Avenues. Thank you, Mayor Bloomberg. That's our theater. I
mean the casting office is here too, but that's the theater.
(40:08):
We have a two hundred and fifty seat theater and
we have a black box one hundred seat theater. And
it's this wonderful complex that, thank you, Mayor Bloomberg, started
to build that We moved in in twenty nineteen finally
because we used to be down at the Lortel, and
everything is here. The offices are here, are our high
school programs after school, so the building is filled with
(40:28):
high school students, or it's filled with Gavin Kreele rehearsing
his show that starts next week, or Jason Robert Brown's
shows and auditions because that starts rehearsals in December. So
it's like a little campus over here with the two
theaters and the rehearsal rooms and the offices.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
And what is the mission? First of all, what does
MCC stands for.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
It was Manhattan Class Company because we all came out
of an NYU class at least the original family members,
but not a great name, so we just go by MCC,
you know. But it's to work on plays and musicals
that get you as an audience to talk whether you
like the player, don't like the play. We always say
there's going to be a third act, which is when
you leave talking about the experience, you know. And we
(41:11):
like to do things that push the envelope a little bit,
or that make you care or make you question.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
Is there a role model for MCC like, did you
go when you were a kid? Oh, if only I
had a theater company, Like, was there one specific one
that you were exposed to that you really admired?
Speaker 2 (41:31):
No, I don't.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
I mean Circle Rep. I guess you know it doesn't
exist anymore. But as a young person coming to New York,
and I would usher there all the time. And gods,
you know, chool right was on Seventh Avenue and Sheridan Square,
my goodness, and they were doing new plays, and they
were developing actors, and they were developing playwrights, and they
were it was a home for artists. And I think
that's what I've always responded to.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Right, I mean, because when I was a kid, and
I keep going back to my experience at Performing Arts
High School. That saved my life, Darling, That literally saved
my life because I had this really parochial, kind of
tiny little box that I lived in, and then somehow
a teacher said you don't belong in this box. You
need to audition, and she helped me and I got
in and I realized at that point when I started
(42:16):
going to that school, that life wasn't some scary, horrible thing,
but there was actually this wonderful aspect to it, which
was this thing I was very good at, you know,
and it saved my life.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
And I wish I could find like some kind of
national charity that did.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
This, you know, that kind of And I'm not talking
you know, like I'm on the board of New forty two,
which is great, but that's a very specific agenda. I'm
talking about like arts education, wherein you go into classrooms
in Kentucky and you say, here's a bunch of money
for like a Shakespeare class or a fencing class, or
a tumbling or whatever it is. You know, like a
(42:56):
modern dance class. That is what I would really like
to do. And like, so far, I haven't really found
that group. I don't really think they exist because I
don't think so either. No, we need to found this group, Darling,
because I do think art saves people's lives.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
You know.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
We're yeah, one day at a time, Yeah, totally. I
mean it, It really does.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
Know.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
It's why mcc we started this high school program.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
It's a program for after school for high school students,
inner city kids who want to learn about the art.
It doesn't it's not about whether they become an actor
or whether they become a playwright, but to be exposed
to what theater and can do, and it's the gift.
It's unbelievable. And you know, we've been doing it for
thirty years and we keep in touch with all the
alumni and some of them go on to be professional actors.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
But you need that.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
I feel like I was given that luckily by one
teacher who dragged me to a community theater.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
It's all about the teachers.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
And I feel as though the lessons to be learned
from the lessons of the theater or the performing arts
in general are so much more essential and important than
like certain kind of like maths that they teach in school.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
And it's like I will never use this information, you know.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Whereas like if you could give someone an acting class
or a theater writing class, or a classical music class
or something like, there is so much more. Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
Yeah, whether you become that or not, that gets you
through life. I have one final question for you. Do
you have imposta syndrome?
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Because I do not syndrome syndrome, but I do.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Go who the fuck are you?
Speaker 3 (44:36):
You know?
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Like I say that, like right, like why is this movie?
Start writing me back, like why are they writing me back,
like you know what I mean, Like, so, yes, I'm
always like, pinch me. I just was talking to so
and so you know right, yes, still I'm in awe
that I get to do this.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
So yes, I do have that.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
And Darling, I am obsessed with obituaries, Like that's the
first thing I do in the morning. I open the
New York Times and I literally go to the obituaries.
So what if you could write your own obituary what
you wanted to say? You're not answering the question. I
would answer the question.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
I would just say happy. I am just happy. That
said so so weird, but I am just ye happy.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
What do you mean you were happy in your life? Yeah,
and I am.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
Happy every day. Like I get excited about getting up
in the morning. I can't wait to start the day.
And I wake up and I'm ready because you don't
know what's going to happen today. Even if I have
twelve things on my calendar. It's like, oh my god,
I'm getting to talk to Isaac.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
Well, Darling, my friend Peter just said this to me.
He was like, life is so fabulous, even the problems.
It's also challenging, and so I was like, who are you?
Because I don't really do that. I kind of have
to pull myself out.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
I know so many people know even the problems are
a challenge for me, Like I'll take the problem and
turn it into a challenge, Like how can I.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Wow, make that go away? Where did you get it from?
I got happy for my dad. I mean, you know,
he's a little clueless, but he's happy, you know what
I mean? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (46:08):
And I don't know where I got the other thing,
the constant battery of like, oh well, why can't we
do that at midnight? There's still another hour left, right,
you know what I mean? I don't know where that
came from. I really don't know.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
Like the East Coast thing. That's an East Coast thing? Okay, Well, Darling.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Besides a production of Victor Victoria starring me on Broadway,
which I know you really want to task. Do you
have some dream project that you've never done that you
want to do?
Speaker 2 (46:35):
Oooooh?
Speaker 1 (46:38):
I feel like the musical Carry Even though we at
MCC gave it another shot ten years ago and it
was great, it also wasn't finished. And I always hold
on to doing that again because the score is really
good and I would love to be able to somehow
tell that story again.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
I'm there, I am there for Opening Night on that one, Darla. Okay,
so what do you want to promote?
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Promote people to pay attention to who casts that TV
show that they love or that movie that they love?
But projects, I hope everyone goes and sees The Color Purple,
which starts between Christmas. So it's the new color Purple,
which was so fun to work on, having done the
Broadway show, the Broadway Revival and then get to do
the movie.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
News flash, everyone is going to go see the guy.
I know it's really good, really really really good. Oh
my god, amazing.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
Stopcast Valang, I'm val.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
It's really good.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
All right.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
I love you and I love you all right, thank you.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
I just love everything about that conversation. Okay, seriously, I
love how it came from nowhere, right. Bernie Telsey's career
came from literally someone calling and saying, would you cast
this little show called Rent?
Speaker 2 (47:58):
And then he was like no, no, no, no no no.
He didn't want to.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
He went into it reluctantly, and basically it set him
on this fabulous, fabulous trajectory. And then also this incredible
piece of advice that from now on is going to
burn centrally in my brain whenever I'm auditioning for anything,
which is that the casting directors you're standing in front
(48:22):
of are absolutely dying for you to be great. They
want you to be great, And so knowing that just
kind of relieves so much of the tension in the room,
so much of the stress of the process.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
I think that was the real takeaway.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
The other thing that I now know about my friend
Bernie that I never knew was that he is always
this like really positive, optimistic, happy guy. You know, I
never kind of knew that about him, And you know,
I got to say I relate to that, even though
all I do is complain and all I do is
like start by seeing the dark side of things. In
(49:00):
the end, I think it is this weird sort of
optimism that pushes through all of that. Eventually it reaches
the upper upper echelons of my brain and I push
forward and I do it based on optimism. Anyway, thank
you so much for listening. What a pleasure this was
today and sort of highlight I think of my experiences
(49:21):
so far on this podcast.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
Darlings.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
If you enjoyed this episode, do me a favor and
tell someone, Tell a friend, tell your mother, tell your cousin,
tell everyone you know.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Okay, and be sure to rate the show. I love
rating stuff.
Speaker 3 (49:39):
Go on and rate and review the show on Apple
Podcasts so more people can hear about it. It makes
such a gigantic difference and like it takes a second,
so go on and do it. And if you want
more fun content videos and posts of all kinds, follow
the show on Instagram and TikTok at Hello Isaac podcast
(50:02):
And by the way, check me out on Instagram and
TikTok at. I am Isaac Musrahi. This is Isaac, Missrahi.
Thank you, I love you and I never thought I'd
say this, but goodbye Isaac. Hello Isaac is produced by
Imagine Audio Awfully Nice and I AM Entertainment for iHeartMedia.
(50:26):
The series is hosted by Me Isaac Msrahi. Hello Isaac
is produced by Robin Gelfenbein. The senior producers are Jesse
Burton and John Assanti, and is executive produced by Ron Howard,
Brian Grazer, Carral Welker, and Nathan Klokey at Imagine Audio
Production Management from Katie Hodges, Sound design and mixing by
(50:47):
Cedric Wilson. Original music composed by Ben Waltzer. A special
thanks to Neil Phelps and Sarah katanak At.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
I AM Entertainment
Speaker 1 (51:00):
H
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