March 26, 2024 • 30 mins
Soon after Steve started texting with his biological mother, he discovered he had a sister named Amy, a school bus driver in Virginia. At this point, Steve wanted to get to know Amy, who’d grown up under Sandi’s roof. He was curious about her childhood, the road he hadn't taken. But he wasn’t so sure he wanted to know their mother. In this episode, Todd discovers the trauma that shot through Steve’s birth family was worse than he could have ever imagined.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey there, I want to give you a heads up
that this episode will discuss sexual abuse. Please listen with care.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Previously on Hello John Dale, I think.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Everybody's got an origin, and I would just like to
know you know where I will get.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
The girls were traumatized by the tornado because we were
in the trailer when the tornado hit and we had
no way out. When you try to talk to her
about certain things when we were little, she would change
the subject real quick.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Yes, she regrets that she didn't do everything that she could.
She's putting a lot of the blame on herself, and
I'm like, Mom, you know it's not just your fault.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
In the past few chapters, I've told you about Franklin
for it's destructive impact on Steve's birth family. We heard
how he kidnapped Steve's sister, Susie Sevegas, and how he
kidnapped Michael, HER's son, and how Susie was killed and
how Michael was never found. These stories are all part
of the fabric of Steve's birth family, their traumatic past
they've had to live with and grapple with. When Steve
(01:09):
learned of his family of origin, some of their trauma
became his trauma too, he started to mourn the sister
that he never had. It's like Steve's been in during
survivor's guilt and a feeling of being abandoned. At the
same time, he's trying to figure out who he really is.
He's facing an emotional mind field, and lately he can't
stop thinking about the family never knew existed. Like his
(01:32):
older sister, Amy Winkles, Sandy's third daughter. They found each
other in twenty nineteen, the same way Steve found their mom,
Sady on Facebook.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
I told her who I was.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
I think you're my sister, and then she's like, you
gotta be kidding what I'm not kidding And then we
just went back and forth from there.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Amy read me some of those early Facebook messages.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I said, Wow, I hate to say that I never
believed her when she said we have had a brother
named Steve, Well, let me tell you a little bit
about me.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
The two shared DNA but knew almost nothing about each other,
so they started feeling in each other in the details
of their lives, if they were married, if they had kids,
but they did for work for days. They talked on
and off. Once he was ready, Steve asked something that
had been weighing on him.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
And then he said, or are you calm enough to
ask a question? And I said, yeah, what's on your mind?
He said? Who is my dad?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Steve hoped maybe Amy knew something no one else did,
maybe she had some insight, but Amy didn't.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I said, let me ask you something. How did you
end up where you are? Did she give you away
or what? He said, Yes, she gave me away. I said,
did you have a good childhood? He said, call me.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
That's when Steve got real with Amy, and then he went.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
To his feelings, said that he's a bastard and I said, no,
you're my brother, and that's what matters to me. He said,
nobody cared about me. For forty five years.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Steve felt abandoned, and he was fixated on the fact
that his parents weren't even a couple, definitely not married.
He was, in his words, a bastard. Amy set him straight.
She read me the message just you sent to Steve.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I didn't know you were alive. I was told you
died as a baby. If I knew about you, I
would have searched the world for you. I was robbed
of knowing you and you were robbed of knowing me.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
She blamed some of this on her mom. Amy felt
like Sandy didn't tell her the full story. When she
was growing up. Sandy hadn't told her that Floyd forced
her to give away Steve, or that she hitchhied looking
for her missing kids. Now it was on Amy to
make sense of the pastor for Steve. They talked on
and off for the next two years, as the world
dealt with COVID nineteen and travel was discouraged. In twenty
(04:00):
twenty one, Aim and her husband packed up the car
and made the trip from eastern Virginia to Charboro, North Carolina,
to meet Steve for the first time. Both siblings had
a serious case of the jitters, where they both act
the same, look the same, but they get along.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
They stay focused on.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
The small details, the ones that were easier to control,
and they kept texting.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I said, we can come to you and order pizza,
and he said, okay, we could go anywhere. I'll pay
and I was like, on our way. He said, the
place we were staying at right now is shitty and
I'm embarrassed. I said, don't be. We aren't high allar either,
and then he said, Okay, I'm nervous. I don't ever
(04:46):
get nervous. I was like me too, and then I
said I'm here.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
After almost fifty years apart, the siblings were face to face.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
We held each other tight. I mean I had said,
oh my god, and I held a and I said, god,
you look just like Papa.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
That's her grandpa, Sandy's dad.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And it was like we held on for quite a while.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
It was kind of emotional. We got the same personality
more or less. She's a little bit lighter now, she's
got a sense of email. She'll tell you like it
is too now. She don't should have coad anything. She's
a trait shooter.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
That day in North Carolina wasn't just a reunion for
Steve and Amy. There was someone else who said goodbye
to Amy half a century ago. Mary Patterson, the woman
who had adopted Steve.
Speaker 5 (05:33):
Than my family. Now, you know, you know you could
have been my child.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
You might remember this from before Steve's adopted mama. Mary
considered taking all of Sandy's four kids, but didn't have
the room in her trailer. Mary had always wondered about
the three girls she left behind, Susy, Allison, and now
here was Amy in front of her.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
I could have had you, she said, you had a
I mean, I wouldn't went through what.
Speaker 5 (06:01):
I went through.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
The first time she hugged me, you could feel her
ex hell to know that she wanted me, but it
wasn't able to take me and for her to be
able to see that I was okay.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
If Amy or Stay were worried that they might run
out of things to say, they were dead wrong.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
We cried quite a while, and then we just sat
there and we talked, went out to eat and talk,
fought over who was paying for what, you know, all
that sort of stuff like Girls of the Slumber Party.
You just want to sit around and talk and talk
and talk.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Finding the family stable loss was just the first step.
The next was deciding how and where he fits in.
At this point, Steve was open to Amy, but he
wasn't so sure he wanted to know Sandy.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I don't blame him for not wanting to talk to
her at all, and I try not to talk about
her to him because I feel kind of guilty because
I lived with her our whole life and he didn't,
and it wasn't his choice. That's part of the guilt
that I have.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Steve didn't know it yet, but Amy was once at
a crossroads too, figuring out how she wanted Sandy in
her life. For a couple of years, she stopped talking
to their mom entirely. You see, Amy had her fair
sheriff suffering under Sandy's roof. In this chapter, we'll go
back to Amy's childhood and hear her mixed feelings a
better upbringing. Steve missed all of it back then, but
(07:32):
he was about to learn the trauma that shot through
his birth family was worse than he could have imagined.
My name is Todd Matthews and this is hello John Doe,
a sleuth, a family, and a serial killer. The story
of the family torn apart by a tragedy and my
quest to bring them back together. Chapter eight, The Trouble
(07:58):
Closer to Home. Amy's a bus driver in Isla, White County.
It's a mostly rural county in eastern Virginia. Every day
she makes her rounds and opens those doors with a smile.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Those are my children. You don't know what their life
is like outside of the time you see them.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
In a lot of cases, she just doesn't know what
kind of home the kids are going back to maybe
they're going hungry, maybe their parents just turn around.
Speaker 5 (08:29):
Maybe it's worse.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
I know that I may be the only smile they
get in the day. I may be the only I
love you, or I may be the only one that say, hey,
we don't behave like that.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
To know Amy Winkles is to know what a big
heart she has. She lets everyone in her kids, her family,
even me. But she wasn't always this way.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
I beat all my brothers and sisters up all the time.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
When she was a kid. Amy was a bully of sorts.
She often acted out. When I met her in Virginia,
he was warm and friendly. She laughed a lot. I
had a hard time squaring Nat with the raide she
carried around in childhood.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I was a fighter and then Dodi was the angel.
So I was secretly beating tar out at Dodie wife. Yeah,
I'd beat her up when nobody else was around.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Dodie is Dorothy Sandy's youngest. Amy grew up in Sandy's
house in coastal Virginia. Her dad was Dennis Brandenburg, the
professional gambler.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
It's not a whole lot to tell. I mean, we
grew up your typical low income family, but.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
She wasn't raised by her father. Amy was raised by Carson,
Sandy's last husband, who died in twenty ten, the one
she was married to for thirty years, who she called Sonny.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
He was the only dad I ever knew. I never
got to meet my dad. I was told that he
died before I was born.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Later, Amy learned that wasn't true. Dennis wasn't dead after all,
Sandy said Dennis his grandmother lied to her.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
Anyway.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Growing up, Amy was violent toward her siblings, but she
didn't really get why she kept laying her hands on them.
Much later, she was able to connect it to something
she dealt with as a child.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Carson abused me from the time I was seven until
I got out. It was sexual abuse. The whole nine yards.
Anything you can think of happen happened from seven until
I was fourteen. It started when I was seven.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
For several years, Amy didn't speak up, which is common.
By the way, Amy was scared to fight back against Carson,
her stepfather, or even to tell her mom. Sandy told
us herself that she didn't always speak the right guy
in her life, but she thought her husband of thirty years,
the one that stuck around was the exception that Amy
said that her mama often chose men over her kids,
(10:53):
and Sandy could have a temper.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
If she had a man, she was fine. The time
she didn't have a man, it was hell. It was
like she was mad at all of us kids because
she didn't have a man.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
The sexual abuse went on for seven years. At the
beginning of high school, Amy met a boy named Mike Winkles.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
My husband and I are high school sweethearts. We started
dating the first day of school. I was in ninth grade.
He was a senior. He knocked my books out of
my hand going down the hallway, and I grabbed his
ear and made him pick a up right in front
of all his friends. And we haven't been separated since.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
One day when they were in high school, Mike was
ob at Amy's house, Carson, her stepfather had a strange request.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
For Mike asked him to go buy him some condoms.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
This startled Mike and it made him realize his girlfriend
was being abused by her stepfather. He got angry and
told Amy she was coming with him.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I went to the house and packed it back. He said,
you're leaving now, and I don't know if it's just
when he said, why does your dad want me to
go buy condoms or whatever? And I think I might
have blurted out so he can use them on me.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
And that's when Amy went to her mother, Sandy.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
She believed me because he didn't deny it. I said
something to her, and she said something to him, and
he admitted to it. He never denied the abuse.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
Never I asked Sandy about it.
Speaker 6 (12:23):
She said that her dad had touched her, that Sonny
had touched her. So I confront of him right away
about it.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
Then she kicked him out.
Speaker 6 (12:36):
I made him leave. He was gone for a long time.
He went to jail because of us.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
In nineteen eighty seven, Carsonus found guilty of sodomy and
aggravated sexual battery and sentenced to one year in jail
and forum probation. According to court records, when Amy told
her mother what her stepfather had done, Sandy believed her,
But what happened next caused the relationship to break down.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Did she kicked me out? We went for two years.
We didn't talked, two years, not a word.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
So Amy was all of fourteen when she spoke up
about being sexually abused.
Speaker 5 (13:14):
She told me.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
From that moment on, she studied her boyfriend Mike's house
with his family, and that's how it went. I asked
Sandy if she kicked Damie out after she told her
about the abuse, and she swore Amy left of her
own volition.
Speaker 6 (13:28):
No, I did not blame her. I believe it.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Then Sandy didn't deny Carson's abuse, but had a different
perspective on what happened after. But you didn't ask, really,
so she finally ended up going to live with Mike
in his house. And so you didn't ask for the
lead because she felt like you did.
Speaker 6 (13:47):
No, no, no, okay. Mike's parents let Mike do whatever
they wanted to do, and they had no curfew, no rules,
no nothing. And you know, at fifteen, no curse, you,
no rule. If you don't want to go to school,
you don't go to school. It sounds really good. So
she went and told my family that she couldn't live
(14:08):
with us anymore because we were too strict, and she
went to lived at mike house.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Obviously the two have conflicting stories, but think about it.
Amy was just a teenager. Sandy was the parent. If
she had made a fuss and told Amy to get
her ayes home, she likely would have instead. Mother and
daughter didn't talk for two whole years. After Carson served
us one year behind bars, Sandy allowed him to move
back in with her and the rest of the kids. Sandy,
(14:36):
who had gotten herself out of what she calls an
overbearing household in Detroit, then lived with PTSD plus the
loss of two kids, finally met a guy who treated
her right, but lost contact with her daughter as a result.
Her husband abused her daughter, and Sandy still welcomed him
back after he served his time.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
He did his time, but I wasn't allowed to go back.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
My experients were caring, they were often around, but they
also had expectations. Amy is telling this different than Sandy's.
Amy says, my experients were more strict.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
You follow the rules, of course, you had to go
to school. At school. Before I moved in with them,
I missed fifty four d's and I got caught sleeping
in the parking lot in the car, and Mom would
write notes like Amy was absent because she went to
get her lazy ass out of bed. They'd excuse it.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
And even though Amy recognized her generosity and taking her in,
and even though she loved Mike, she still had a
tough time following those rules to a tea or choosing
to do the right thing, or even knowing what the
right thing even was.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
I'm not an angel, don't get me wrong. I've done
some shady shit. I've drained our bank accounts. I've stole
from his parents. You know, I didn't know what it
was like having money. So when I moved on with them,
and you had all these things and if you wanted it,
you got it, and things like, I didn't understand that
you worked for it before you could get it.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Eventually something started to shifting Amy. She recognized what was
going on. This was stability.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
There was always food. I just remember that there's always
food to be like, oh you can get seconds, or
you can get more.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
It was just a complete flip flop of everything that
I had got used to growing up. It was weird
at first because I didn't know. I didn't know what love,
what it really felt like.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
And she stopped acting out.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I didn't fight anymore. I didn't get in fights. It's
just things just changed. So it was a blessing.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Things got better for Amy, but her relationship with her
mama remained fractured. So let me wrap my mind around this.
Amy's mam married a serial killer who kidnapped and killed
Amy's sister Susy and her nephew, Michael. Unlike Susanne, Amy lived,
(17:11):
She survived, and she can tell her story. Amy escaped
the clutches of her monster. What's striking him as the
parallel like her sister Amy and during sexual abuse at
the hands of her own stepfather, even though she grew
up in a different place and even though she stayed
with her mom, she dealt with similar demons. Things are
(17:36):
really complicated. For several years between Sandy and her daughter,
and then in twenty ten, Carson had a heart attack
and died suddenly. He and Sandy were on a trip
together in Michigan at the time. Sandy couldn't drive home,
so Amy went to get her. Death opened a door
for them. Amy tried to fill Carson's role.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
If she wanted something, he found a way to get
it for. You know, whether it meant when extra jobs
or barter room with somebody or whatever. He got it for.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
So Amy did the same thing.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
She is one of the first ones that a woe
is me In a second, I fell for it for
a long time. After Carson died, I paid her bills
and forgot our bills, didn't pay our bills.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
By this point, Amy was about forty and married to Mike,
her high school sweetheart, so you know, it.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Almost cost me a marriage. And then he was like,
you gotta stop.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
That's when Sandy and Amy stopped talking again. During that time,
the FBI agents knocked on Sandy's door. They asked for
DNA samples so they could figure out if she was Susie.
Saveka's his mom. You know this story. This is where
Sandy realized Susie had been killed by Floyd. For the
first few weeks after Sandy found out, Amy just blew
(18:55):
her off, didn't believe that she was telling her the
truth about Susie. She realized there was an entire book
about her sister that Sandy wasn't lying. Her sister was
out there for two decades, and Amy had no idea
someone could have saved Susie.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
It made me so mad to know that she was alive.
We knew she had gotten kidnapped. MoMA always said she
got kidnapped, but because I couldn't remember, I was like, whatever,
you're so full shit, whatever, because she lies a lot.
She's always lied a lot my whole life.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
This was a turning point. Amy started to talk to
her mom again. It was a tragic way to reunite
a family, but it is a silver lining. Sandy had
to make peace with the fact that she lost a daughter,
but in this moment of utter agony, she was reunited
with another. Then, in twenty nineteen, the family found the
biggest silver lining in the whole story. Steve Patterson was alive.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
I feel a little guilty because I didn't get to
grow up with him I didn't get to p protect
him or show him how to do things, or you know,
things a big sister would do.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Now Amy's in her fifties and Sandy's in her seventies.
They only live about an hour apart from each other.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I forgave, I forgave, I forgive, I forgave, And Steven says,
do you talk to Trim like you? I almost every day.
I just saw her yesterday. I mean, you would think
we were a normal TV family or whatever. Like nobody
knows the dark secrets.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Amy has that essence about her. You just kind of
feel comfortable, like she's seen some shit and doesn't judge
you whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I love my mom, I really do. Do I like
her sometimes?
Speaker 4 (20:46):
No?
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Do I like the choices she's made some? No, but
I love her. She's still my mom.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Amy's lived long enough to realize everybody's done something they
ain't proud of. After all, Amy used to beat up
her siblings. She put her marriage on the line. Amy
is mature enough to realize she's not perfect, and neither
is their mama.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Am I mad at her?
Speaker 5 (21:09):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Hell, yeah, I'm pissed. I just can't walk away. You know,
after everything I've been through, I cannot walk away.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
And you forgive her?
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I think. I don't know if I forgive her or
just to accept her. I'm a grown woman, I have
children of mine. I've seen shit, been through shit. Everybody
has a past. Everybody has a past.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
At this point in her life, Amy sees lots of
people as worthy of love and forgiveness, even if they
do some messed up things. That's part of why she's
good at her job and.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Drive a school bus cause of little kids, the children
I have. Nobody wanted those children because they were so
out of control. They needed to be held responsible for
their behavior. I know what it's like to not feel love,
and I think that plays a big part on how
much compassion and patience I have. They love me, they
(22:07):
have my phone number, they call me, they text me,
We talk trash.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Based on what Amy's telling me about growing up, she
could have used someone like this, someone that gave her
both disciplined and unshakeable compassion.
Speaker 5 (22:21):
I guess she'd call that tough love.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
A few years ago, Amy had a heart attack. It
happened around the time she was getting to know Steve.
I'm not sure if that's why she opened up to Steve,
but maybe it made her more inclined to get to
know him better. In middle age, Amy's come closer and
closer to this truth. We're more than her past, and
we can dig out I need.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
People don't understand. You're not about your past. Your past
is you passed. And I tell the kids all the
time if they have a bad morning on the bus,
make better choices when you get into school, and that
it's just who I am. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
I think that's that's what's louder. To talk to her
mom again and to be someone Steve feels so comfortable with.
I mean, I felt comfortable meeting her for the first time.
She's incredibly warm, has this wonderful belly life. She welcomed
me with open arms, and I can imagine the way
she embraced her little brother.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
I think we can make up for loss her just
to know that they're there. They're there.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
In a way.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Both siblings are dealing with a lot of wiffs right now.
Steve's wondering what it might have been like growing up
in Sandy's house, and Amy wonders what it might have
been like if she was adopted by Mary. They didn't
grow up in the same house. But lately they're both
thinking about the road not taking.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
I feel like he's a little bit jealous because I
had our actual warm and I'm jealous that he didn't
have her, And I think he feels guilty because he
had a natural life.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
On one hand, they both envy each other a little bit.
On the other hand, they're envia something the two of
them have in common. There's also a truth that both
had to confront. They're both lucky to be here. When
their sister, Susy didn't survive. Franklin Floyd could have taken
either of them too. Amy can see the big picture
now that Steve avoided the clutches of Franklin Floyd. But
(24:15):
I don't think Steve's there yet. He still believes he
was thrown away. He can't fully see that he's alive
because his mom gave him away.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
So although he had a good life with Mary and
her raising him and everything, I still feel like he's
upset that he was given away, you know, instead of
being part of the family. He was given away when
in all reality has saved his life.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Steve and Amy chose each other, filled a hole in
each other's lives. But Dorothy, Sandy's youngest daughter, hasn't got
to know her long lost brother as well, not the
way Amy has. Li was down the street from Sandy,
so she was right there when she found out Steve
was alive.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
She said, you wouldn't believe who got in contact with me.
I was like, who Stephen Phillips my son?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
And I was like, oh, Dorothy is the child of
Sandy and Carson, a child from that last long marriage.
Growing up, she thought Stephen gone missing. Now she learned
he was living one state over in North Carolina.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
I feel like the how can I say it's the
keeper of everybody? I'm always in everybody's business.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
So naturally, Dorothy found him on Facebook and started snooping.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
And I was like, oh my god, he looks just
like my grandfather. I knew he was family automatically because
he We all have the same eyes, the almond shape
of him, we all have them. I'm a text message here.
I told him and say, hey, I'm your younger sister,
and and we talked.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Dorothy was super excited to know this brother of hers.
She got to FaceTime with him.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
And I taught him. I was like, you know, look, dude,
I was like, we take trips down in North Carolina
a bunch.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
She and her husband go down there for motorcycling events.
She tried to get in touch, come on through.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
You know, I can get you into the pit. Not
a problem.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Steve never responded. I don't know why I didn't, and
I don't know if he plans to. When I played
him some of Dorothy's interview, he didn't seem to even
really process that he had another sister. From his perspective,
it seemed he had three older sisters, Susie, Allison, and Amy,
but he didn't really take Dorothy into account the same
(26:34):
way she did him. It was almost like he drew
a line between siblings born before him and those Sandy
kept actors. She let him go and Dorothy ended up
feeling rejected.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
Where did we go wrong? Because we were talking. I
just want to know where we went wrong. I just
I want to hold him. He's my brother.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Dorothy had already started making space in her life Steve,
even before she knew he was still alive. She told
her kids about his disappearance.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
All of my kids know the story. I mean even
my stepsons, they know the story. And in that short
time that I did video chat with him, I knew
right then and there he's perfect.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
He's perfect.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
He is us.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
This is what it looks like on the flip side,
to find a lost brother, but to have him not
claim you. As of Tray Steph's family tree, I've thought
a lot about meeting long lost relatives who we let
in and who we keep at arms link, Sharon Blood,
(27:46):
isn't enough. Being in someone's life is a choice that
two people have to make. We asked Eve about what
it's been like finding his sisters after all this time.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Anything you want it out of us just to get
the I guess, just to get to know him a
little bit better.
Speaker 7 (28:03):
I would like to know who my dad is. I mean,
that's one of the biggest things for me, I think,
out of this whole situation, but I could get the
get to know the girls a little bit better'd be
pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
He said, he wants to get to know his sisters
a little better. But it might be that he only
wants to get to know his older sisters, not the
one Sandy birth and raised after giving him away. Maybe
that's why when Steve went looking for Sandy's family, he
wasn't totally satisfied with what he found. He's told me,
still skeptical of her story, that she didn't realize she
was giving him up permanently, that she worked hard to
(28:40):
find him, and there was no doubt his biggest interest
was finding his father. I decided to help him. Look
what we found.
Speaker 5 (28:49):
Surprised us both.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
That's next time on Hello John Doe.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
He wants those answers. We're going to do everything we
can and as a family to help him get those answers.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Hello John Doe is an original productions by Revelations Entertainment
in association with First and last productions from Revelation.
Speaker 5 (29:12):
Our executive producers.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Are Morgan Freeman and James Younger from first to last.
Lindsay Moreno is the executive producer. Our producing partner is
neo On Home Media. It was written and produced by
Kate Michigan. Our editor is Katherine Saint Louis. She is
also neil On Home Media's executive editor. Our executive producer
is Sharah Morris. Our development producer is Ian Lindsay. Our
(29:35):
associate producer is Rufaro Faith Maserua. Sound design and mixing
by Scott Servell. Themon original music composed by Jesse Pearlstein.
Additional music came from Epidemic Sound and Blue Dot Sessions.
Vindall Faulton is our fact checker. Our production manager is
Samantha Allison from my Heart Media. Dylan Fagan is our
executive producer. Special thanks to Adelia Ruben at ne On
(29:57):
Hum and Carrie Lieberman and Will Pru at iHeartMedia.
Speaker 5 (30:01):
I'm Todd Matthews. You can learn more about name us
at nam us dot com.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
The number for the National Center for Missing Exploited Children's
Call Center is one eight hundred. The loss that's one
eight hundred, eight four three five six seven eight. The
National Sexual assauld hotline from the Rate Abuse and Incest
National Network is one eight hundred sixty five six four
six seven three. Okay, guys, this is the end of
(30:26):
the show. If you didn't like it, don't do anything.
But if you did like it, you make sure that
your rate and review the show. It helps more people
to find it and hear this wonderful story. Thanks again
for listening.
Hey there, I want to give you a heads up
that this episode will discuss sexual abuse. Please listen with care.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Previously on Hello John Dale, I think.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Everybody's got an origin, and I would just like to
know you know where I will get.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
The girls were traumatized by the tornado because we were
in the trailer when the tornado hit and we had
no way out. When you try to talk to her
about certain things when we were little, she would change
the subject real quick.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Yes, she regrets that she didn't do everything that she could.
She's putting a lot of the blame on herself, and
I'm like, Mom, you know it's not just your fault.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
In the past few chapters, I've told you about Franklin
for it's destructive impact on Steve's birth family. We heard
how he kidnapped Steve's sister, Susie Sevegas, and how he
kidnapped Michael, HER's son, and how Susie was killed and
how Michael was never found. These stories are all part
of the fabric of Steve's birth family, their traumatic past
they've had to live with and grapple with. When Steve
(01:09):
learned of his family of origin, some of their trauma
became his trauma too, he started to mourn the sister
that he never had. It's like Steve's been in during
survivor's guilt and a feeling of being abandoned. At the
same time, he's trying to figure out who he really is.
He's facing an emotional mind field, and lately he can't
stop thinking about the family never knew existed. Like his
(01:32):
older sister, Amy Winkles, Sandy's third daughter. They found each
other in twenty nineteen, the same way Steve found their mom,
Sady on Facebook.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
I told her who I was.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
I think you're my sister, and then she's like, you
gotta be kidding what I'm not kidding And then we
just went back and forth from there.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Amy read me some of those early Facebook messages.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I said, Wow, I hate to say that I never
believed her when she said we have had a brother
named Steve, Well, let me tell you a little bit
about me.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
The two shared DNA but knew almost nothing about each other,
so they started feeling in each other in the details
of their lives, if they were married, if they had kids,
but they did for work for days. They talked on
and off. Once he was ready, Steve asked something that
had been weighing on him.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
And then he said, or are you calm enough to
ask a question? And I said, yeah, what's on your mind?
He said? Who is my dad?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Steve hoped maybe Amy knew something no one else did,
maybe she had some insight, but Amy didn't.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I said, let me ask you something. How did you
end up where you are? Did she give you away
or what? He said, Yes, she gave me away. I said,
did you have a good childhood? He said, call me.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
That's when Steve got real with Amy, and then he went.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
To his feelings, said that he's a bastard and I said, no,
you're my brother, and that's what matters to me. He said,
nobody cared about me. For forty five years.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Steve felt abandoned, and he was fixated on the fact
that his parents weren't even a couple, definitely not married.
He was, in his words, a bastard. Amy set him straight.
She read me the message just you sent to Steve.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I didn't know you were alive. I was told you
died as a baby. If I knew about you, I
would have searched the world for you. I was robbed
of knowing you and you were robbed of knowing me.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
She blamed some of this on her mom. Amy felt
like Sandy didn't tell her the full story. When she
was growing up. Sandy hadn't told her that Floyd forced
her to give away Steve, or that she hitchhied looking
for her missing kids. Now it was on Amy to
make sense of the pastor for Steve. They talked on
and off for the next two years, as the world
dealt with COVID nineteen and travel was discouraged. In twenty
(04:00):
twenty one, Aim and her husband packed up the car
and made the trip from eastern Virginia to Charboro, North Carolina,
to meet Steve for the first time. Both siblings had
a serious case of the jitters, where they both act
the same, look the same, but they get along.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
They stay focused on.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
The small details, the ones that were easier to control,
and they kept texting.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I said, we can come to you and order pizza,
and he said, okay, we could go anywhere. I'll pay
and I was like, on our way. He said, the
place we were staying at right now is shitty and
I'm embarrassed. I said, don't be. We aren't high allar either,
and then he said, Okay, I'm nervous. I don't ever
(04:46):
get nervous. I was like me too, and then I
said I'm here.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
After almost fifty years apart, the siblings were face to face.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
We held each other tight. I mean I had said,
oh my god, and I held a and I said, god,
you look just like Papa.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
That's her grandpa, Sandy's dad.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And it was like we held on for quite a while.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
It was kind of emotional. We got the same personality
more or less. She's a little bit lighter now, she's
got a sense of email. She'll tell you like it
is too now. She don't should have coad anything. She's
a trait shooter.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
That day in North Carolina wasn't just a reunion for
Steve and Amy. There was someone else who said goodbye
to Amy half a century ago. Mary Patterson, the woman
who had adopted Steve.
Speaker 5 (05:33):
Than my family. Now, you know, you know you could
have been my child.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
You might remember this from before Steve's adopted mama. Mary
considered taking all of Sandy's four kids, but didn't have
the room in her trailer. Mary had always wondered about
the three girls she left behind, Susy, Allison, and now
here was Amy in front of her.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
I could have had you, she said, you had a
I mean, I wouldn't went through what.
Speaker 5 (06:01):
I went through.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
The first time she hugged me, you could feel her
ex hell to know that she wanted me, but it
wasn't able to take me and for her to be
able to see that I was okay.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
If Amy or Stay were worried that they might run
out of things to say, they were dead wrong.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
We cried quite a while, and then we just sat
there and we talked, went out to eat and talk,
fought over who was paying for what, you know, all
that sort of stuff like Girls of the Slumber Party.
You just want to sit around and talk and talk
and talk.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Finding the family stable loss was just the first step.
The next was deciding how and where he fits in.
At this point, Steve was open to Amy, but he
wasn't so sure he wanted to know Sandy.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I don't blame him for not wanting to talk to
her at all, and I try not to talk about
her to him because I feel kind of guilty because
I lived with her our whole life and he didn't,
and it wasn't his choice. That's part of the guilt
that I have.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Steve didn't know it yet, but Amy was once at
a crossroads too, figuring out how she wanted Sandy in
her life. For a couple of years, she stopped talking
to their mom entirely. You see, Amy had her fair
sheriff suffering under Sandy's roof. In this chapter, we'll go
back to Amy's childhood and hear her mixed feelings a
better upbringing. Steve missed all of it back then, but
(07:32):
he was about to learn the trauma that shot through
his birth family was worse than he could have imagined.
My name is Todd Matthews and this is hello John Doe,
a sleuth, a family, and a serial killer. The story
of the family torn apart by a tragedy and my
quest to bring them back together. Chapter eight, The Trouble
(07:58):
Closer to Home. Amy's a bus driver in Isla, White County.
It's a mostly rural county in eastern Virginia. Every day
she makes her rounds and opens those doors with a smile.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Those are my children. You don't know what their life
is like outside of the time you see them.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
In a lot of cases, she just doesn't know what
kind of home the kids are going back to maybe
they're going hungry, maybe their parents just turn around.
Speaker 5 (08:29):
Maybe it's worse.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
I know that I may be the only smile they
get in the day. I may be the only I
love you, or I may be the only one that say, hey,
we don't behave like that.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
To know Amy Winkles is to know what a big
heart she has. She lets everyone in her kids, her family,
even me. But she wasn't always this way.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
I beat all my brothers and sisters up all the time.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
When she was a kid. Amy was a bully of sorts.
She often acted out. When I met her in Virginia,
he was warm and friendly. She laughed a lot. I
had a hard time squaring Nat with the raide she
carried around in childhood.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I was a fighter and then Dodi was the angel.
So I was secretly beating tar out at Dodie wife. Yeah,
I'd beat her up when nobody else was around.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Dodie is Dorothy Sandy's youngest. Amy grew up in Sandy's
house in coastal Virginia. Her dad was Dennis Brandenburg, the
professional gambler.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
It's not a whole lot to tell. I mean, we
grew up your typical low income family, but.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
She wasn't raised by her father. Amy was raised by Carson,
Sandy's last husband, who died in twenty ten, the one
she was married to for thirty years, who she called Sonny.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
He was the only dad I ever knew. I never
got to meet my dad. I was told that he
died before I was born.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Later, Amy learned that wasn't true. Dennis wasn't dead after all,
Sandy said Dennis his grandmother lied to her.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
Anyway.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Growing up, Amy was violent toward her siblings, but she
didn't really get why she kept laying her hands on them.
Much later, she was able to connect it to something
she dealt with as a child.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Carson abused me from the time I was seven until
I got out. It was sexual abuse. The whole nine yards.
Anything you can think of happen happened from seven until
I was fourteen. It started when I was seven.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
For several years, Amy didn't speak up, which is common.
By the way, Amy was scared to fight back against Carson,
her stepfather, or even to tell her mom. Sandy told
us herself that she didn't always speak the right guy
in her life, but she thought her husband of thirty years,
the one that stuck around was the exception that Amy
said that her mama often chose men over her kids,
(10:53):
and Sandy could have a temper.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
If she had a man, she was fine. The time
she didn't have a man, it was hell. It was
like she was mad at all of us kids because
she didn't have a man.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
The sexual abuse went on for seven years. At the
beginning of high school, Amy met a boy named Mike Winkles.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
My husband and I are high school sweethearts. We started
dating the first day of school. I was in ninth grade.
He was a senior. He knocked my books out of
my hand going down the hallway, and I grabbed his
ear and made him pick a up right in front
of all his friends. And we haven't been separated since.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
One day when they were in high school, Mike was
ob at Amy's house, Carson, her stepfather had a strange request.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
For Mike asked him to go buy him some condoms.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
This startled Mike and it made him realize his girlfriend
was being abused by her stepfather. He got angry and
told Amy she was coming with him.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I went to the house and packed it back. He said,
you're leaving now, and I don't know if it's just
when he said, why does your dad want me to
go buy condoms or whatever? And I think I might
have blurted out so he can use them on me.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
And that's when Amy went to her mother, Sandy.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
She believed me because he didn't deny it. I said
something to her, and she said something to him, and
he admitted to it. He never denied the abuse.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
Never I asked Sandy about it.
Speaker 6 (12:23):
She said that her dad had touched her, that Sonny
had touched her. So I confront of him right away
about it.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
Then she kicked him out.
Speaker 6 (12:36):
I made him leave. He was gone for a long time.
He went to jail because of us.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
In nineteen eighty seven, Carsonus found guilty of sodomy and
aggravated sexual battery and sentenced to one year in jail
and forum probation. According to court records, when Amy told
her mother what her stepfather had done, Sandy believed her,
But what happened next caused the relationship to break down.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Did she kicked me out? We went for two years.
We didn't talked, two years, not a word.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
So Amy was all of fourteen when she spoke up
about being sexually abused.
Speaker 5 (13:14):
She told me.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
From that moment on, she studied her boyfriend Mike's house
with his family, and that's how it went. I asked
Sandy if she kicked Damie out after she told her
about the abuse, and she swore Amy left of her
own volition.
Speaker 6 (13:28):
No, I did not blame her. I believe it.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Then Sandy didn't deny Carson's abuse, but had a different
perspective on what happened after. But you didn't ask, really,
so she finally ended up going to live with Mike
in his house. And so you didn't ask for the
lead because she felt like you did.
Speaker 6 (13:47):
No, no, no, okay. Mike's parents let Mike do whatever
they wanted to do, and they had no curfew, no rules,
no nothing. And you know, at fifteen, no curse, you,
no rule. If you don't want to go to school,
you don't go to school. It sounds really good. So
she went and told my family that she couldn't live
(14:08):
with us anymore because we were too strict, and she
went to lived at mike house.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Obviously the two have conflicting stories, but think about it.
Amy was just a teenager. Sandy was the parent. If
she had made a fuss and told Amy to get
her ayes home, she likely would have instead. Mother and
daughter didn't talk for two whole years. After Carson served
us one year behind bars, Sandy allowed him to move
back in with her and the rest of the kids. Sandy,
(14:36):
who had gotten herself out of what she calls an
overbearing household in Detroit, then lived with PTSD plus the
loss of two kids, finally met a guy who treated
her right, but lost contact with her daughter as a result.
Her husband abused her daughter, and Sandy still welcomed him
back after he served his time.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
He did his time, but I wasn't allowed to go back.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
My experients were caring, they were often around, but they
also had expectations. Amy is telling this different than Sandy's.
Amy says, my experients were more strict.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
You follow the rules, of course, you had to go
to school. At school. Before I moved in with them,
I missed fifty four d's and I got caught sleeping
in the parking lot in the car, and Mom would
write notes like Amy was absent because she went to
get her lazy ass out of bed. They'd excuse it.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
And even though Amy recognized her generosity and taking her in,
and even though she loved Mike, she still had a
tough time following those rules to a tea or choosing
to do the right thing, or even knowing what the
right thing even was.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
I'm not an angel, don't get me wrong. I've done
some shady shit. I've drained our bank accounts. I've stole
from his parents. You know, I didn't know what it
was like having money. So when I moved on with them,
and you had all these things and if you wanted it,
you got it, and things like, I didn't understand that
you worked for it before you could get it.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Eventually something started to shifting Amy. She recognized what was
going on. This was stability.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
There was always food. I just remember that there's always
food to be like, oh you can get seconds, or
you can get more.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
It was just a complete flip flop of everything that
I had got used to growing up. It was weird
at first because I didn't know. I didn't know what love,
what it really felt like.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
And she stopped acting out.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I didn't fight anymore. I didn't get in fights. It's
just things just changed. So it was a blessing.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Things got better for Amy, but her relationship with her
mama remained fractured. So let me wrap my mind around this.
Amy's mam married a serial killer who kidnapped and killed
Amy's sister Susy and her nephew, Michael. Unlike Susanne, Amy lived,
(17:11):
She survived, and she can tell her story. Amy escaped
the clutches of her monster. What's striking him as the
parallel like her sister Amy and during sexual abuse at
the hands of her own stepfather, even though she grew
up in a different place and even though she stayed
with her mom, she dealt with similar demons. Things are
(17:36):
really complicated. For several years between Sandy and her daughter,
and then in twenty ten, Carson had a heart attack
and died suddenly. He and Sandy were on a trip
together in Michigan at the time. Sandy couldn't drive home,
so Amy went to get her. Death opened a door
for them. Amy tried to fill Carson's role.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
If she wanted something, he found a way to get
it for. You know, whether it meant when extra jobs
or barter room with somebody or whatever. He got it for.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
So Amy did the same thing.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
She is one of the first ones that a woe
is me In a second, I fell for it for
a long time. After Carson died, I paid her bills
and forgot our bills, didn't pay our bills.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
By this point, Amy was about forty and married to Mike,
her high school sweetheart, so you know, it.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Almost cost me a marriage. And then he was like,
you gotta stop.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
That's when Sandy and Amy stopped talking again. During that time,
the FBI agents knocked on Sandy's door. They asked for
DNA samples so they could figure out if she was Susie.
Saveka's his mom. You know this story. This is where
Sandy realized Susie had been killed by Floyd. For the
first few weeks after Sandy found out, Amy just blew
(18:55):
her off, didn't believe that she was telling her the
truth about Susie. She realized there was an entire book
about her sister that Sandy wasn't lying. Her sister was
out there for two decades, and Amy had no idea
someone could have saved Susie.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
It made me so mad to know that she was alive.
We knew she had gotten kidnapped. MoMA always said she
got kidnapped, but because I couldn't remember, I was like, whatever,
you're so full shit, whatever, because she lies a lot.
She's always lied a lot my whole life.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
This was a turning point. Amy started to talk to
her mom again. It was a tragic way to reunite
a family, but it is a silver lining. Sandy had
to make peace with the fact that she lost a daughter,
but in this moment of utter agony, she was reunited
with another. Then, in twenty nineteen, the family found the
biggest silver lining in the whole story. Steve Patterson was alive.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
I feel a little guilty because I didn't get to
grow up with him I didn't get to p protect
him or show him how to do things, or you know,
things a big sister would do.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Now Amy's in her fifties and Sandy's in her seventies.
They only live about an hour apart from each other.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I forgave, I forgave, I forgive, I forgave, And Steven says,
do you talk to Trim like you? I almost every day.
I just saw her yesterday. I mean, you would think
we were a normal TV family or whatever. Like nobody
knows the dark secrets.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Amy has that essence about her. You just kind of
feel comfortable, like she's seen some shit and doesn't judge
you whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I love my mom, I really do. Do I like
her sometimes?
Speaker 4 (20:46):
No?
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Do I like the choices she's made some? No, but
I love her. She's still my mom.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Amy's lived long enough to realize everybody's done something they
ain't proud of. After all, Amy used to beat up
her siblings. She put her marriage on the line. Amy
is mature enough to realize she's not perfect, and neither
is their mama.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Am I mad at her?
Speaker 5 (21:09):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Hell, yeah, I'm pissed. I just can't walk away. You know,
after everything I've been through, I cannot walk away.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
And you forgive her?
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I think. I don't know if I forgive her or
just to accept her. I'm a grown woman, I have
children of mine. I've seen shit, been through shit. Everybody
has a past. Everybody has a past.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
At this point in her life, Amy sees lots of
people as worthy of love and forgiveness, even if they
do some messed up things. That's part of why she's
good at her job and.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Drive a school bus cause of little kids, the children
I have. Nobody wanted those children because they were so
out of control. They needed to be held responsible for
their behavior. I know what it's like to not feel love,
and I think that plays a big part on how
much compassion and patience I have. They love me, they
(22:07):
have my phone number, they call me, they text me,
We talk trash.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Based on what Amy's telling me about growing up, she
could have used someone like this, someone that gave her
both disciplined and unshakeable compassion.
Speaker 5 (22:21):
I guess she'd call that tough love.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
A few years ago, Amy had a heart attack. It
happened around the time she was getting to know Steve.
I'm not sure if that's why she opened up to Steve,
but maybe it made her more inclined to get to
know him better. In middle age, Amy's come closer and
closer to this truth. We're more than her past, and
we can dig out I need.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
People don't understand. You're not about your past. Your past
is you passed. And I tell the kids all the
time if they have a bad morning on the bus,
make better choices when you get into school, and that
it's just who I am. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
I think that's that's what's louder. To talk to her
mom again and to be someone Steve feels so comfortable with.
I mean, I felt comfortable meeting her for the first time.
She's incredibly warm, has this wonderful belly life. She welcomed
me with open arms, and I can imagine the way
she embraced her little brother.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
I think we can make up for loss her just
to know that they're there. They're there.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
In a way.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Both siblings are dealing with a lot of wiffs right now.
Steve's wondering what it might have been like growing up
in Sandy's house, and Amy wonders what it might have
been like if she was adopted by Mary. They didn't
grow up in the same house. But lately they're both
thinking about the road not taking.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
I feel like he's a little bit jealous because I
had our actual warm and I'm jealous that he didn't
have her, And I think he feels guilty because he
had a natural life.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
On one hand, they both envy each other a little bit.
On the other hand, they're envia something the two of
them have in common. There's also a truth that both
had to confront. They're both lucky to be here. When
their sister, Susy didn't survive. Franklin Floyd could have taken
either of them too. Amy can see the big picture
now that Steve avoided the clutches of Franklin Floyd. But
(24:15):
I don't think Steve's there yet. He still believes he
was thrown away. He can't fully see that he's alive
because his mom gave him away.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
So although he had a good life with Mary and
her raising him and everything, I still feel like he's
upset that he was given away, you know, instead of
being part of the family. He was given away when
in all reality has saved his life.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Steve and Amy chose each other, filled a hole in
each other's lives. But Dorothy, Sandy's youngest daughter, hasn't got
to know her long lost brother as well, not the
way Amy has. Li was down the street from Sandy,
so she was right there when she found out Steve
was alive.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
She said, you wouldn't believe who got in contact with me.
I was like, who Stephen Phillips my son?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
And I was like, oh, Dorothy is the child of
Sandy and Carson, a child from that last long marriage.
Growing up, she thought Stephen gone missing. Now she learned
he was living one state over in North Carolina.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
I feel like the how can I say it's the
keeper of everybody? I'm always in everybody's business.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
So naturally, Dorothy found him on Facebook and started snooping.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
And I was like, oh my god, he looks just
like my grandfather. I knew he was family automatically because
he We all have the same eyes, the almond shape
of him, we all have them. I'm a text message here.
I told him and say, hey, I'm your younger sister,
and and we talked.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Dorothy was super excited to know this brother of hers.
She got to FaceTime with him.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
And I taught him. I was like, you know, look, dude,
I was like, we take trips down in North Carolina
a bunch.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
She and her husband go down there for motorcycling events.
She tried to get in touch, come on through.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
You know, I can get you into the pit. Not
a problem.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Steve never responded. I don't know why I didn't, and
I don't know if he plans to. When I played
him some of Dorothy's interview, he didn't seem to even
really process that he had another sister. From his perspective,
it seemed he had three older sisters, Susie, Allison, and Amy,
but he didn't really take Dorothy into account the same
(26:34):
way she did him. It was almost like he drew
a line between siblings born before him and those Sandy
kept actors. She let him go and Dorothy ended up
feeling rejected.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
Where did we go wrong? Because we were talking. I
just want to know where we went wrong. I just
I want to hold him. He's my brother.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Dorothy had already started making space in her life Steve,
even before she knew he was still alive. She told
her kids about his disappearance.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
All of my kids know the story. I mean even
my stepsons, they know the story. And in that short
time that I did video chat with him, I knew
right then and there he's perfect.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
He's perfect.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
He is us.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
This is what it looks like on the flip side,
to find a lost brother, but to have him not
claim you. As of Tray Steph's family tree, I've thought
a lot about meeting long lost relatives who we let
in and who we keep at arms link, Sharon Blood,
(27:46):
isn't enough. Being in someone's life is a choice that
two people have to make. We asked Eve about what
it's been like finding his sisters after all this time.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Anything you want it out of us just to get
the I guess, just to get to know him a
little bit better.
Speaker 7 (28:03):
I would like to know who my dad is. I mean,
that's one of the biggest things for me, I think,
out of this whole situation, but I could get the
get to know the girls a little bit better'd be
pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
He said, he wants to get to know his sisters
a little better. But it might be that he only
wants to get to know his older sisters, not the
one Sandy birth and raised after giving him away. Maybe
that's why when Steve went looking for Sandy's family, he
wasn't totally satisfied with what he found. He's told me,
still skeptical of her story, that she didn't realize she
was giving him up permanently, that she worked hard to
(28:40):
find him, and there was no doubt his biggest interest
was finding his father. I decided to help him. Look
what we found.
Speaker 5 (28:49):
Surprised us both.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
That's next time on Hello John Doe.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
He wants those answers. We're going to do everything we
can and as a family to help him get those answers.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Hello John Doe is an original productions by Revelations Entertainment
in association with First and last productions from Revelation.
Speaker 5 (29:12):
Our executive producers.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Are Morgan Freeman and James Younger from first to last.
Lindsay Moreno is the executive producer. Our producing partner is
neo On Home Media. It was written and produced by
Kate Michigan. Our editor is Katherine Saint Louis. She is
also neil On Home Media's executive editor. Our executive producer
is Sharah Morris. Our development producer is Ian Lindsay. Our
(29:35):
associate producer is Rufaro Faith Maserua. Sound design and mixing
by Scott Servell. Themon original music composed by Jesse Pearlstein.
Additional music came from Epidemic Sound and Blue Dot Sessions.
Vindall Faulton is our fact checker. Our production manager is
Samantha Allison from my Heart Media. Dylan Fagan is our
executive producer. Special thanks to Adelia Ruben at ne On
(29:57):
Hum and Carrie Lieberman and Will Pru at iHeartMedia.
Speaker 5 (30:01):
I'm Todd Matthews. You can learn more about name us
at nam us dot com.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
The number for the National Center for Missing Exploited Children's
Call Center is one eight hundred. The loss that's one
eight hundred, eight four three five six seven eight. The
National Sexual assauld hotline from the Rate Abuse and Incest
National Network is one eight hundred sixty five six four
six seven three. Okay, guys, this is the end of
(30:26):
the show. If you didn't like it, don't do anything.
But if you did like it, you make sure that
your rate and review the show. It helps more people
to find it and hear this wonderful story. Thanks again
for listening.
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