June 23, 2022 • 33 mins
Senator Turner welcomes 35-year veteran educator and author, Mary Cole Watson to #HelloSomebody to discuss her book, “Wisdom Warriors.” A series of 22 educational stories, this book seeks to empower young African-American readers with factual and historical knowledge to dispel social stereotypes and rhetoric that keeps them from reaching their full potential. Both SNT and Mrs. Watson share some personal stories from their own youth that contributed to the type of pain @thewisdomwarriors works to heal. Listen in for a lovely conversation.
LINKS:
Mary Cole Watson
https://www.wisdomwarriors2020.com/
Marcus Garvey
http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/tserve/twenty/tkeyinfo/garvey.htm
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/garvey-biography/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Turn Everything. Welcome to Hello Somebody, a production of The
(00:28):
Black Effect Podcast Network and I Heart Media. Where we
rage against the machine, where we raise our voices against
injustice and stand up for justice. Where we embrace hope
and joy with an optimism for a bright or more
just future. Each week I'll be dropping knowledge, whether it's
(00:49):
a solo episode from me or a hearty discussion with
esteem guests doing great things in spaces and places of politics, entertainment,
social justice, and beyond. We get real, baby, I mean
really real. We get honest, We get up close and
personal for you, Yes, you, because everybody is Somebody. Before
(01:16):
we begin, I want to give a special shout out
to my team, Thank you, Sam, Tiffany, Sam and the
team over at Good Juju Studios, Erica England, Pepper Chambers,
the Hot One, and my social media team, Hello Somebody.
Before I begin today, I want to give a very
(01:38):
special shout out to all of the teachers and educators
on every single level of the educational spectrum, from preschool
teachers well to the first teachers, which should be Mama
and daddy and don't leave off the grandma's, to y'all y'alls,
Hello Somebody too. Formal teachers who teach in a classroom,
(02:01):
whether it's preschool, elementary school, middle school, high school, or college, universities,
post graduate educate. Wherever you are, baby, if you are
a teacher, if you're a counselor at a camp, summer camp,
and you're a teacher, I just want to shout you out.
So from daycare centers to enrichment centers, teachers, math teach,
(02:24):
all kinds of teachers, I just want to lift you up.
Wherever you are, I am with you, and I too,
am a teacher of both as a mama teacher or
y'all y'all teacher, and I was a formal teacher in
the classroom. I guess in some ways I'm still teaching
because the world is my classroom. Baby. Hello, somebody kind
of get a hello somebody on that. But I did teach.
(02:45):
I was tenured professor at Cayahoga Community College where futures
begin in Cleveland, Ohio, and that was one of the
greatest things I've been able to do in my professional career,
which is to be a college professor and to teach
and community colleges. I believe hold a special place in
the educational spectrum because we take all and our sole
(03:07):
focus is the enrichment of our students. So just sending
that kind of love and speaking of love and speaking
of educators today, I am so excited to have Mary
Cole Watson on our show today. Sister Watson is not
only a veteran educator of over thirty years, she has
(03:28):
also served as a Title one Reading Director and diversity
facilitator trained by Gastalt Institute, and Mary shares her experience
from the lives of children from her classroom in her
debut book, Wisdom Warriors. Her acclaimed work, the twenty eight
Lessons for African American Youth, is included in Wisdom Warriors
(03:53):
and was featured in our very own local newspaper, The
Cleveland playing Let's give a hello somebody. Welcome to Sister
Mary Cole Watson. They're so good to have you here
with us. I love your book. I've started reading your book,
and I love the cover. For me, and I know
(04:14):
a lot of people before they even start to thumb
through a page of the book, the cover gets you first.
It's that presentation. But Wisdom Warriors let's talk about race
and includes twenty eight lessons for African American youth. So
I think I want to start their thirty years in
the teaching profession. What gives well, actually thirty five years
(04:36):
now because I returned to the classroom part time, sort
of by accident. My husband had me on indeed, and uh,
I received a call in October and the recruiters said,
you're still interested in the job that you applied for
a year and a half ago. And I thought it
was a prank call. Story short um, I told them
(04:57):
it depends upon the hours and so on, And as
it turns out, I ended up accepting a part time
position teaching reading. Not surprised that you're teaching reading still.
And before we get too deep into a Title one,
a lot of people don't understand the title one and
and that money, um goes to some of the poorer
(05:18):
schools in the nation, and you taught reading under that
banners and some of the schools that have the greatest needs. Right.
So I was a Title one coordinator actually for three
years and I supervised thirteen teachers. I was promoted to
that position because my reading test scores of my students
(05:40):
were exceptionally high from year to year. And so the
program is for students who need remedial help in reading,
and we meet in small groups. But I know, being
an African American who majored in African American history with
a passion for African Americans students, it was such an
(06:01):
honor for me to lead the other instructors in how
the program would operate for the system that I was
working for. Twelve of the thirteen instructors were white professionals,
and they were very very energetic about having me and
my expertise, and that was such an honor to do
(06:22):
for those three years. Yeah, that's beautiful that that says
a lot about you and your skill set and how
you are using what I see as a gift to
edify our children through the power of reading. We know
that reading scores are tied to or let's say, illiteracy
in prison. Yes, you know that there's a correlation between
(06:45):
not being able to read and prison rates. Right. Absolutely,
you're definitely doing God's work in that way. And we
know also in the century, the whole notion of education,
the paradigm and shifted. It really is about lifelong learning
and to be able to learn and take in and
absorb your environments in a way that enriches. Reading is
(07:09):
a foundational skill to have. Absolutely, Yeah, what was it
about education? I mean, did you always know that you
wanted to be Let me tell you. I didn't go
to kindergarten, but when I entered first grade, I fell
in love with learning, just fell in love with it.
And I knew in first grade that I wanted to
(07:29):
be a teacher on one of eleven children. And I
would gather several of my siblings and I would play
teacher and I would teach a lesson. I would give
out homework, I would give out give tests, and I
would grade the tests. In reading, I knew, and it's
provided me joy that is indescribable. So I was lucky
(07:55):
enough to know precisely what it is I wanted to do.
There are very you people who kind of know very
early on in their lives what they are destined to do. Again,
I consider that very much a gift. Unlike me. I
remember hanging in my grandmother's hallway in her home. She
(08:15):
had purchased her seven grandchildren a set of Britannica encyclopedias.
I'm I'm dating myself now because some people listening to
this or like encyclopedias. What are those they only know
about Google, you know, but in the in the old days.
But I'm so so you better but just I mean
(08:37):
the whole that. And even then, as I was daydreaming
about what I might want to be when I grow up,
being a teacher was one of those things. I also
thought I wanted to be a nun, did you, my mother? Yes,
I went to Catholic school. You didn't. We'll see I
get it for you. I had a dear friend of
mine who was Catholic, and we would switch going to
(09:00):
service with one another, and so I did was exposed
a lot to the Catholic Church because my very best
girlfriend growing up, I went to a Catholic church. My
mother easily dissuaded me from wanting to be a nun.
She's like, baby, no, you don't. You don't understand when
you get older, so no, no shade to the nuns. Now,
no shades to the nuns. So you always knew your
(09:25):
your grating folks, paper you got out the red ink
and everything. I gotta tell you. As a teacher, I
decided not to use red ink because I was traumatized
by red ink that I started, you know, when I
started teaching I used different colored thing. Yes, me too,
you know all the different colors. That's kids, that's right,
so we can traumatize them with the different colors and
(09:45):
not just red. But no, it was a psychological thing,
and I wanted to not use red. So it's nice
to talk to someone else because it's the failure feeling
that you feel like you're failures. I didn't want kids
to I was very sensitive to kids feelings. Yes so
am I. And people need to be even when you're
helping them to grow academically, they also need to know
(10:08):
that they have what it takes innately to be successful.
I mean, we're such a Who's number one driven society
that it really really snuffs out any creativity that people
may have because if they can't be number one, who
wants to be number two? If I can't get that a,
then I'm not good enough. And I, as an educator,
believe in the portfolio approach. I don't think that a
(10:30):
student should be just simply by one test or one
one moment. Absolutely where on the same page with that,
and I feel that that's why I was so successful
with my students. Yeah, some students are excellent at test taking,
some are not. So let's do a test, let's do
community service, let's do projects, and judge a student based
(10:52):
on a plethora of measures and not just one yes.
But that that is what makes you an extraordinary educated.
I want to go back to the book Lessons for
African American Youth. So you created and authored this book.
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What inspired you to develop the lessons? And how was
the process for picking out the specific lessons? Because someone
with thirty five years of experience, I'm sure you had
a lot to draw from. How were you able to
narrow it to twenty eight lessons? And what is it
about the alright? Well, first of all, when I was
teaching at the high school level, I was very distressed
(11:36):
with how African American History Month was pretty much dismissed,
and when there was a celebration, the celebration focused mainly
on the food. And I noticed that there were several
assemblies for the Jewish Holocaust, and all the teachers encouraged
their students, even though the school was predominantly black, to
(11:57):
go to all the assemblies about the Holocaust, and these
assemblies took place several times during the year. But when
Black History Month assemblies took place, many teachers refused to
take their students, and so I wanted the students to
have something that they could celebrate their history every day
(12:20):
for the month of February. So I came up with
the twenty eight because of the twenty eight days in February,
I wanted them to have be able to either journal
or discuss their different lessons that I put together. What happened.
You know, it's interesting. When I was writing the lessons,
I have to be very honest with you, I sat
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down one day and it was almost like the spirit
took over. Fourteen of those lessons just poured out, just
poured out. I'm just writing them, writing them one, two, three,
four or five up to fourteen, and I said, oh
my god, this is so good. And I was so
nervous that I wouldn't be able to come up with
fourteen more. And the very next day I sat down
(13:05):
and the remaining fourteen just came out, and so literally
it took a couple of hours for two days and beautiful.
At the beginning of that school year, at the convocation
where all the teachers have to meet in the auditorium
and listen to a keynote speaker, the mayor of Cleveland
Heights University Heights said, well, Mary Cole Watson, stand up,
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and I had no idea what she wanted me to
stand up for. And she applauded my lessons and she
said that she felt that every single teacher should be
using those lessons in their classroom. So I was honored
by the fact that she felt as strongly about those
lessons as I did. That's beautiful. I mean, what a
tribute to you. There's a quote. I think it goes
(13:52):
something like, never stopped learning because life never stops teaching.
That's right for facts room, and even in the writing
of your book, I feel as though life was teaching
you something in that moment and preparing you to be
able to write this book all along the way. And
I want to tell you how that came about. I
was teaching in Cleveland for a couple of years at
(14:15):
a charter school and all my lessons were culturally relevant.
And for this one particular lesson, a female student interrupted
my lesson and became very emotional, and she said, Mrs Watson,
you need to write stories to help kids feel good
about themselves the way you help us feel good about ourselves.
(14:35):
I had always wanted to write a book. I felt
that the pinnacle of my profession would be to write
a book, and I wanted the book to be special,
something that would make a real difference in children's lives.
And one day I was cleaning the house, and you
know how you talk to yourself out loud, I said,
Oh my god, that's it. That's the book. I'm supposed
(14:57):
to write a book about racism. I went directly upstairs
to the computer. I said, at the computer, and I
did not leave my seat until the rough draft to
my very first story was written. And you know, the
reception of the book has been so heartwarming. It's in
four libraries right now. Cleveland Heights University Heights director said
(15:20):
to me, Oh my god, I love everything about this book.
And you know, I didn't think I'd be able to
write about a topic that is so painful and give
kids the joy that I wanted them to have so
that they could have resilience. But my African American History
degree allowed me to do that. Majoring in African American
(15:44):
History is the single best decision I made in my
entire life. The second would be marrying my husband. When
I went to college, a mid size college, which was
known for education and for pe, both subject areas I
excelled in. I happened to walk by a door that
set African American history, and I had never had an
(16:07):
African American instructor. I had never been exposed to any
African American history. I happened to be African, by the way.
My father is from Sierra Leone, Freetown, West Africa, and
so I went into the office. I knocked on the
door just to find out what African American history was.
I signed up for classes, and oh my god, I
(16:29):
fell in love with being African American. I absolutely had
changed my entire life. It gave me a joy for
living beyond the tragedy and trauma of racism because I
knew the truths. The focus was on the African dispirer.
I'm not pronouncing that correctly. Excuse me get a little
(16:51):
tongue tied here, But the focus was on our phenomenal
achievements before we were enslaved. And so that gave me
a joy that is indescribable that I carried with me
from that day throughout my life. And I wanted to
make certain that my students felt that same joy and
(17:12):
so I made my curriculum culturally relevant in every way
I could. Good for you. The d ASPRA you know,
black people and the asp and one of our great
champions for Pan Africanism, Marcus Garvey. Yes, oh my god,
the great one. Yeah, mine to Marcus Garvey. He did
(17:35):
a lot to try to help Black people people of ultimately, Ultimately,
no matter where we were dropped off at in the
America's and all over the world, our origin is on
that continent, the continent of Africa. And Marcus Garvey did
a lot to try to help African people, African descended
(18:00):
both understand, appreciate, acknowledge, and embrace their blackness and all
of its beauty and majesty. And the United States of
America did that man in because he and Jaegga. Hoover
was very much a part of it. Just what he
did to Dr. The Reverend Dr Martin Luther King Jr.
(18:21):
What he did in Minister Malcolm X, the counter quarantine
pro that was at his hand to try to destroy
the black panthers. I mean, you name it, you name it.
Whenever there were leaders, whether they were men or women.
You know, Angela Davis comes to mind, a whole bunch
of leaders that stood up for black people and told
the truth about this nation. There was the federal government
(18:44):
trying to undo them, calls them harm infiltrate them, and
that is exactly what they did, causing a whole bunch
of chaos. UM Chairwoman Elaine Brown is in is still
in Oakland right now, Oakland, California, you know, one of
the Black Panthers. And and just to hear some of
the stories that she tells. The movie that came out
(19:05):
about Fred Hampton's life, Judith and the Messiah, it just
brings tears in my eyes every time I watched that,
and all of that was at the hands of the
federal government. But I got off track here just having
you talk about the beauty of black people. And that's
really how I came to study African American history too.
I was told, you know, you'll never get a job,
(19:27):
and there's nothing relevant about what you're studying. My first
college professor of African American history and steal my surrogate
mother mentor to this day, doctor Dorothy Saylor and Mary.
I remember walking into that class as a freshman. You know,
I signed up for Black history and I see this
white woman with blond hair and greenish kind of eyes
(19:47):
standing in the front of the classroom. I said, I
must be in the wrong class, because only black people
can teach black history. Ain't nobody gonna understand this lady,
This white lady ain't gonna understand. And she forever changed
my life and is definitely the reason, similar to yours,
that I've came to embrace the beauty of black history
(20:09):
and its relevance to America's history into world history. Oh
my god, Dr Dirthy, say, let me shout her out.
She has a pH d in African American history, and
I want to shout out Dr Herbert Douglas. He's eighty
six years old. We stay in touch, and I was
(20:29):
nervous about sending in my book because he's an intimidating figure.
He taught in an Ivy League school, and my husband
mailed him the book and he sent me back a
card with the quote that this impressive publication is a
significant contribution to children's literature. So I didn't care what
anybody else said. If Dr Douglas felt that way about
(20:51):
my book, I knew I was onto something. That's it now,
when the teacher is pleased. The ultimate teacher is please.
I know this is probably unfair to ask you to
pick one of those twenty eight lessons, but would you
(21:13):
be willing to share one of the twenty eight lessons
with us today? Yes, that lesson would be we will
celebrate African American beauty. African American beauty comes in a
variety of shades, facial features, and hair textures. That is
(21:34):
our beauty, and we should compare ourselves to our beauty,
to our culture and not other cultures. Hey man, let's
go deeper with that. Why that, Why is that the
one you're sharing? And why put that in the book?
I have to say, they're all very special. I came
from a severely dysfunctional family and my mother was very light,
(21:55):
she could have passed for white, actually, And my father
was very dark, and she would argue with him constantly,
and whenever she would argue with him, she would call
him all kinds of names regarding his color. And I
have to be honest, as a little girl, no matter
what she said, I just thought my father was so handsome.
(22:17):
I just thought he was regal. He had such a
laid back personality. Oh my goodness, absolutely handsome. Nothing anyone
could say would convince me otherwise. And when I was
teaching a lot of my darker skinned students felt inferior.
They had an inferiority complex, and I would hear them
calling each other names. And so to me, this was
(22:41):
the most important lesson as a teacher, to let everyone
know that our hair texture has a purpose and that
our features are all equal, which they are just different.
Come on, you better preach that, sermon, sister mayor, you
better go ahead and preach that, and I can relate.
And the fact that you have students of the twenty
(23:02):
first century still harboring, still carrying that means that the
eurocentric worldview in the Eurocentric and part of that worldview
is what's beautiful and what's not. And we know that
we've been socialized in this nation and even the world,
that standard of beauty has penetrated the entire world, that
(23:23):
it has polluted as a black community in the diaspora,
but particularly here in America and the United States of America,
polluted our sense of self. So, going back to brother
Marcus Garvey, that was another thing about him, that dark, dark,
beautifully black skin. And he said, the black people rise up.
(23:43):
You beautiful people. I mean, so it wasn't even yet.
It was the solidarity point, but it was also him
reminding us that we are brilliant and we are beautiful,
and sint Mary, to hear you say that children of
this day still feel that way that they are in
theory because we're passing that down and as much as
we think we have advanced it, you know what meant
(24:05):
a lot to me and I would love to hear
how you felt about it. But I wish twelve year
old Nina because I'm a darker skinned black woman. I'm
a chocolate gorgeous complexion. By the way, I love darker complexions.
I always have. Thank you, sister Mary. Well, everybody comes
from the original. Let me just say that, Okay, the
mitochondro eve that you know all life originated in Africa,
and you best believe she was a chocolate chocolate sister.
(24:27):
But we have been programmed to think the lighter you are,
the closer to white you are, the more beautiful you are.
And you are causing me to go back into my
younger self and even today as a grown, accomplished, beautiful,
hot chocolate sister, I still struggle with how I was
(24:50):
treated in elementary school, in junior high and also high school.
As it relates to my complexion, to the huge of
my skin. I remember at elementary school, this lighter skin girl.
We were sending in line to go to on the
field trip, and she just came up and and she
rubbed her hand against my face. Now while she was
(25:12):
all invading my space like that, that's a whole another thing.
And then she rubbed her hand up against her face, Mary,
and she turned and she said to me, she said,
my skin she was lighter than me. My skin is
softer than yours because I'm lighter than you. Uh, I mean,
these things are poured into children at a very young age.
(25:34):
One of my nieces, she's she's grown now, but when
she was growing up, she had a white barbie and
a black barbie. I for one, don't believe that black
children should be giving white dolls until they have a
sense of their beauty and their purpose. However, her paternal
grandmother felt the need to give her this white barbie down,
and so I brought the dolls. Because she was only
(25:54):
playing with white barbie, vanilla barbie. She went playing with
chocolate barbie. And I asked her why, and she told
me that the vanilla barbie hair was longer, and I said, well,
let's bring the barbies together. Now she's a little little girl, Mary,
there was no difference in the length of the hair
of those barbes. You better know her mother didn't sit
her down and say the white barbie is better. Society
(26:15):
told her that's that the white barbie was better, you know.
And so I'm so happy for you and just you
allowing the spirit to lead and to guide you, because
in those twenty eight lessons, every single one is important,
and Germaine to what is needed to help raise healthy
(26:37):
black children who are aware of their worth and their beauty,
but also to help children who are not black understand
the worth exactly exactly. I've had white pediatrician and white therapist.
Many white people have contacted me to let me know
how much they learned from my book. Very good, and
(26:59):
that's that's we gotta do again. African American history is
America's history, and everybody should learn. And if you are
in a classroom anywhere in America, but especially if you
teach in a district that is predominantly black, you must
understand what it takes to teach black children and also
understand the stigma steal that is associated with being black,
(27:22):
and that there's colorism because we talk a lot about racism.
We talked about it, we ain't doing much about it,
but we don't talk a lot. I don't think about
its anti blackness and colorism absolutely color Let me share
another story with you. I was in high school and
I remember I was trying out for a play. And
I finished my high school years back in Cleveland. For
(27:44):
like five brief years of my life, I was out
of the state growing up. My mother took us somewhere
else for about five years, and I tried out for
this play. It was a Charlie Brown and Mary. I
gotta tell you, I tried out for Lucy and I
knew I did that. Have you ever had a more
win in your life where you just said, I know
I did that. I knew I did that. And I
(28:04):
still up there and I was waiting, you know, when
the teacher puts who got the parts? I didn't see
my name by Lucy, and so I went to my
drama teacher who was the one that was directing to play,
and asked him. I said, I know I was the
best Lucy, and he said, yes, Nina, you were the
best Lucy. But Lucy is not black. Oh my god, Mary,
(28:28):
that hurt me to my heart. Oh yeah, of course
I still carry it to this day. Lucy ain't black,
you hear me? Yea man, and people have no idea
when you perpetuate this. And not only does a larger society,
mainstream society perpetuates this, Black people continue to perpetuate it
too because they don't know any better, because they still
(28:52):
learning from what they're being taught suddenly unconsciously, you know,
absolutely so blur gonnally it is. Yeah, yeah, we we
need we definitely need to do a better job. I
encourage each and every person who is joining us today
on Hello somebody to go, please go, don't run. Well,
(29:14):
you don't have to go anywhere. You can order it online,
but please order Mary Cole Watson's book. It's Wisdom Warriors,
twenty two short stories for African American youth. And that
the lessons are in the last and the last story. Okay,
And how can people find you on social media? And
where can they order your book? Wisdom Warriors dot com.
(29:39):
It's where they can order my book. Very good, Well,
please order it again that's wisdom, warriors. Let's talk about race.
Please get it, Married Cole Watson, and it includes the
essential lessons for African American youth. And I would add
to that the essential lessons for African American you and
(30:00):
those who love those African American youth. How about that,
Mary Cole Watson. Please keep using your gifts and your
skills to edify the world. Keep bringing that wisdom and
that love that the Creator has given you for our children,
lifting them up as individuals, and also educating and illuminating
(30:21):
the very people who are in classrooms with them. I'm
talking about the grown folks. Keep doing what you're doing
to make this world a better place. We are blessed
by your existence. I will and I thank you so
much for inviting me on your podcast. It's been an
honor and I really enjoyed listening to your words of
(30:43):
wisdom at the gathering where I met you well, thank
you so much, I and I was glad to meet
you too. I think that that happened on purpose, It
wasn't by accident. And here we are interview and the
one and only Mary Cole Watson. Thank you so much,
and for all of you who have joined us today.
We have appreciate you so much, the hell, the entire
Hello Somebody, team, appreciate you for being with us. Make
(31:06):
sure that you like our podcast. Make sure you give
us those five stars, baby, if you believe it in
what we are doing. And remember to keep the faith
and keep the fight. Hello somebody, because everybody is somebody.
Turn mordinary ordinary things somebody, and then turn believed, turning us,
(31:36):
giving us somebody time. Yeah, change is coming. The pain
is nothing trying to shoot for the stars. If you're
gonna ain't for something. Embrace the love for your brother
and sister. You need these demission brush. We need the puzzle.
This picture just painted up and frame it up for
(31:57):
the world to see. Ain't to hatred up enough for enough,
it's enough making changes or enough in turn of a
voice of the truth to wise word. Despire the youth
to keep their eyes on the roof. It's the end.
Never give up. Keep conquering gold to the eye and
telling the silver wisdom is gold that to the end.
Now is your time. Stay firm, don't fold to the
a or you need is the three bones. That's what
(32:18):
Randie said. Now I'm gonna make sure these words from
Randie spread for all the hair, to give it your air.
She can take him to the Promised Land. I swear
world pieces what they fear. Queen's to Cleveland, Ohio. We're here, famous, famous,
turning any qual Somebody need to turn Why somebody ship
(32:43):
to turn out? Queen, somebody need to turn times great
one of those great more hands. We will not leave.
(33:06):
Hello Somebody is a production of I Heart Radio and
the Black Effect Network. For more podcast from our heart Radio,
visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Turn Everything. Welcome to Hello Somebody, a production of The
(00:28):
Black Effect Podcast Network and I Heart Media. Where we
rage against the machine, where we raise our voices against
injustice and stand up for justice. Where we embrace hope
and joy with an optimism for a bright or more
just future. Each week I'll be dropping knowledge, whether it's
(00:49):
a solo episode from me or a hearty discussion with
esteem guests doing great things in spaces and places of politics, entertainment,
social justice, and beyond. We get real, baby, I mean
really real. We get honest, We get up close and
personal for you, Yes, you, because everybody is Somebody. Before
(01:16):
we begin, I want to give a special shout out
to my team, Thank you, Sam, Tiffany, Sam and the
team over at Good Juju Studios, Erica England, Pepper Chambers,
the Hot One, and my social media team, Hello Somebody.
Before I begin today, I want to give a very
(01:38):
special shout out to all of the teachers and educators
on every single level of the educational spectrum, from preschool
teachers well to the first teachers, which should be Mama
and daddy and don't leave off the grandma's, to y'all y'alls,
Hello Somebody too. Formal teachers who teach in a classroom,
(02:01):
whether it's preschool, elementary school, middle school, high school, or college, universities,
post graduate educate. Wherever you are, baby, if you are
a teacher, if you're a counselor at a camp, summer camp,
and you're a teacher, I just want to shout you out.
So from daycare centers to enrichment centers, teachers, math teach,
(02:24):
all kinds of teachers, I just want to lift you up.
Wherever you are, I am with you, and I too,
am a teacher of both as a mama teacher or
y'all y'all teacher, and I was a formal teacher in
the classroom. I guess in some ways I'm still teaching
because the world is my classroom. Baby. Hello, somebody kind
of get a hello somebody on that. But I did teach.
(02:45):
I was tenured professor at Cayahoga Community College where futures
begin in Cleveland, Ohio, and that was one of the
greatest things I've been able to do in my professional career,
which is to be a college professor and to teach
and community colleges. I believe hold a special place in
the educational spectrum because we take all and our sole
(03:07):
focus is the enrichment of our students. So just sending
that kind of love and speaking of love and speaking
of educators today, I am so excited to have Mary
Cole Watson on our show today. Sister Watson is not
only a veteran educator of over thirty years, she has
(03:28):
also served as a Title one Reading Director and diversity
facilitator trained by Gastalt Institute, and Mary shares her experience
from the lives of children from her classroom in her
debut book, Wisdom Warriors. Her acclaimed work, the twenty eight
Lessons for African American Youth, is included in Wisdom Warriors
(03:53):
and was featured in our very own local newspaper, The
Cleveland playing Let's give a hello somebody. Welcome to Sister
Mary Cole Watson. They're so good to have you here
with us. I love your book. I've started reading your book,
and I love the cover. For me, and I know
(04:14):
a lot of people before they even start to thumb
through a page of the book, the cover gets you first.
It's that presentation. But Wisdom Warriors let's talk about race
and includes twenty eight lessons for African American youth. So
I think I want to start their thirty years in
the teaching profession. What gives well, actually thirty five years
(04:36):
now because I returned to the classroom part time, sort
of by accident. My husband had me on indeed, and uh,
I received a call in October and the recruiters said,
you're still interested in the job that you applied for
a year and a half ago. And I thought it
was a prank call. Story short um, I told them
(04:57):
it depends upon the hours and so on, And as
it turns out, I ended up accepting a part time
position teaching reading. Not surprised that you're teaching reading still.
And before we get too deep into a Title one,
a lot of people don't understand the title one and
and that money, um goes to some of the poorer
(05:18):
schools in the nation, and you taught reading under that
banners and some of the schools that have the greatest needs. Right.
So I was a Title one coordinator actually for three
years and I supervised thirteen teachers. I was promoted to
that position because my reading test scores of my students
(05:40):
were exceptionally high from year to year. And so the
program is for students who need remedial help in reading,
and we meet in small groups. But I know, being
an African American who majored in African American history with
a passion for African Americans students, it was such an
(06:01):
honor for me to lead the other instructors in how
the program would operate for the system that I was
working for. Twelve of the thirteen instructors were white professionals,
and they were very very energetic about having me and
my expertise, and that was such an honor to do
(06:22):
for those three years. Yeah, that's beautiful that that says
a lot about you and your skill set and how
you are using what I see as a gift to
edify our children through the power of reading. We know
that reading scores are tied to or let's say, illiteracy
in prison. Yes, you know that there's a correlation between
(06:45):
not being able to read and prison rates. Right. Absolutely,
you're definitely doing God's work in that way. And we
know also in the century, the whole notion of education,
the paradigm and shifted. It really is about lifelong learning
and to be able to learn and take in and
absorb your environments in a way that enriches. Reading is
(07:09):
a foundational skill to have. Absolutely, Yeah, what was it
about education? I mean, did you always know that you
wanted to be Let me tell you. I didn't go
to kindergarten, but when I entered first grade, I fell
in love with learning, just fell in love with it.
And I knew in first grade that I wanted to
(07:29):
be a teacher on one of eleven children. And I
would gather several of my siblings and I would play
teacher and I would teach a lesson. I would give
out homework, I would give out give tests, and I
would grade the tests. In reading, I knew, and it's
provided me joy that is indescribable. So I was lucky
(07:55):
enough to know precisely what it is I wanted to do.
There are very you people who kind of know very
early on in their lives what they are destined to do. Again,
I consider that very much a gift. Unlike me. I
remember hanging in my grandmother's hallway in her home. She
(08:15):
had purchased her seven grandchildren a set of Britannica encyclopedias.
I'm I'm dating myself now because some people listening to
this or like encyclopedias. What are those they only know
about Google, you know, but in the in the old days.
But I'm so so you better but just I mean
(08:37):
the whole that. And even then, as I was daydreaming
about what I might want to be when I grow up,
being a teacher was one of those things. I also
thought I wanted to be a nun, did you, my mother? Yes,
I went to Catholic school. You didn't. We'll see I
get it for you. I had a dear friend of
mine who was Catholic, and we would switch going to
(09:00):
service with one another, and so I did was exposed
a lot to the Catholic Church because my very best
girlfriend growing up, I went to a Catholic church. My
mother easily dissuaded me from wanting to be a nun.
She's like, baby, no, you don't. You don't understand when
you get older, so no, no shade to the nuns. Now,
no shades to the nuns. So you always knew your
(09:25):
your grating folks, paper you got out the red ink
and everything. I gotta tell you. As a teacher, I
decided not to use red ink because I was traumatized
by red ink that I started, you know, when I
started teaching I used different colored thing. Yes, me too,
you know all the different colors. That's kids, that's right,
so we can traumatize them with the different colors and
(09:45):
not just red. But no, it was a psychological thing,
and I wanted to not use red. So it's nice
to talk to someone else because it's the failure feeling
that you feel like you're failures. I didn't want kids
to I was very sensitive to kids feelings. Yes so
am I. And people need to be even when you're
helping them to grow academically, they also need to know
(10:08):
that they have what it takes innately to be successful.
I mean, we're such a Who's number one driven society
that it really really snuffs out any creativity that people
may have because if they can't be number one, who
wants to be number two? If I can't get that a,
then I'm not good enough. And I, as an educator,
believe in the portfolio approach. I don't think that a
(10:30):
student should be just simply by one test or one
one moment. Absolutely where on the same page with that,
and I feel that that's why I was so successful
with my students. Yeah, some students are excellent at test taking,
some are not. So let's do a test, let's do
community service, let's do projects, and judge a student based
(10:52):
on a plethora of measures and not just one yes.
But that that is what makes you an extraordinary educated.
I want to go back to the book Lessons for
African American Youth. So you created and authored this book.
(11:13):
What inspired you to develop the lessons? And how was
the process for picking out the specific lessons? Because someone
with thirty five years of experience, I'm sure you had
a lot to draw from. How were you able to
narrow it to twenty eight lessons? And what is it
about the alright? Well, first of all, when I was
teaching at the high school level, I was very distressed
(11:36):
with how African American History Month was pretty much dismissed,
and when there was a celebration, the celebration focused mainly
on the food. And I noticed that there were several
assemblies for the Jewish Holocaust, and all the teachers encouraged
their students, even though the school was predominantly black, to
(11:57):
go to all the assemblies about the Holocaust, and these
assemblies took place several times during the year. But when
Black History Month assemblies took place, many teachers refused to
take their students, and so I wanted the students to
have something that they could celebrate their history every day
(12:20):
for the month of February. So I came up with
the twenty eight because of the twenty eight days in February,
I wanted them to have be able to either journal
or discuss their different lessons that I put together. What happened.
You know, it's interesting. When I was writing the lessons,
I have to be very honest with you, I sat
(12:42):
down one day and it was almost like the spirit
took over. Fourteen of those lessons just poured out, just
poured out. I'm just writing them, writing them one, two, three,
four or five up to fourteen, and I said, oh
my god, this is so good. And I was so
nervous that I wouldn't be able to come up with
fourteen more. And the very next day I sat down
(13:05):
and the remaining fourteen just came out, and so literally
it took a couple of hours for two days and beautiful.
At the beginning of that school year, at the convocation
where all the teachers have to meet in the auditorium
and listen to a keynote speaker, the mayor of Cleveland
Heights University Heights said, well, Mary Cole Watson, stand up,
(13:28):
and I had no idea what she wanted me to
stand up for. And she applauded my lessons and she
said that she felt that every single teacher should be
using those lessons in their classroom. So I was honored
by the fact that she felt as strongly about those
lessons as I did. That's beautiful. I mean, what a
tribute to you. There's a quote. I think it goes
(13:52):
something like, never stopped learning because life never stops teaching.
That's right for facts room, and even in the writing
of your book, I feel as though life was teaching
you something in that moment and preparing you to be
able to write this book all along the way. And
I want to tell you how that came about. I
was teaching in Cleveland for a couple of years at
(14:15):
a charter school and all my lessons were culturally relevant.
And for this one particular lesson, a female student interrupted
my lesson and became very emotional, and she said, Mrs Watson,
you need to write stories to help kids feel good
about themselves the way you help us feel good about ourselves.
(14:35):
I had always wanted to write a book. I felt
that the pinnacle of my profession would be to write
a book, and I wanted the book to be special,
something that would make a real difference in children's lives.
And one day I was cleaning the house, and you
know how you talk to yourself out loud, I said,
Oh my god, that's it. That's the book. I'm supposed
(14:57):
to write a book about racism. I went directly upstairs
to the computer. I said, at the computer, and I
did not leave my seat until the rough draft to
my very first story was written. And you know, the
reception of the book has been so heartwarming. It's in
four libraries right now. Cleveland Heights University Heights director said
(15:20):
to me, Oh my god, I love everything about this book.
And you know, I didn't think I'd be able to
write about a topic that is so painful and give
kids the joy that I wanted them to have so
that they could have resilience. But my African American History
degree allowed me to do that. Majoring in African American
(15:44):
History is the single best decision I made in my
entire life. The second would be marrying my husband. When
I went to college, a mid size college, which was
known for education and for pe, both subject areas I
excelled in. I happened to walk by a door that
set African American history, and I had never had an
(16:07):
African American instructor. I had never been exposed to any
African American history. I happened to be African, by the way.
My father is from Sierra Leone, Freetown, West Africa, and
so I went into the office. I knocked on the
door just to find out what African American history was.
I signed up for classes, and oh my god, I
(16:29):
fell in love with being African American. I absolutely had
changed my entire life. It gave me a joy for
living beyond the tragedy and trauma of racism because I
knew the truths. The focus was on the African dispirer.
I'm not pronouncing that correctly. Excuse me get a little
(16:51):
tongue tied here, But the focus was on our phenomenal
achievements before we were enslaved. And so that gave me
a joy that is indescribable that I carried with me
from that day throughout my life. And I wanted to
make certain that my students felt that same joy and
(17:12):
so I made my curriculum culturally relevant in every way
I could. Good for you. The d ASPRA you know,
black people and the asp and one of our great
champions for Pan Africanism, Marcus Garvey. Yes, oh my god,
the great one. Yeah, mine to Marcus Garvey. He did
(17:35):
a lot to try to help Black people people of ultimately, Ultimately,
no matter where we were dropped off at in the
America's and all over the world, our origin is on
that continent, the continent of Africa. And Marcus Garvey did
a lot to try to help African people, African descended
(18:00):
both understand, appreciate, acknowledge, and embrace their blackness and all
of its beauty and majesty. And the United States of
America did that man in because he and Jaegga. Hoover
was very much a part of it. Just what he
did to Dr. The Reverend Dr Martin Luther King Jr.
(18:21):
What he did in Minister Malcolm X, the counter quarantine
pro that was at his hand to try to destroy
the black panthers. I mean, you name it, you name it.
Whenever there were leaders, whether they were men or women.
You know, Angela Davis comes to mind, a whole bunch
of leaders that stood up for black people and told
the truth about this nation. There was the federal government
(18:44):
trying to undo them, calls them harm infiltrate them, and
that is exactly what they did, causing a whole bunch
of chaos. UM Chairwoman Elaine Brown is in is still
in Oakland right now, Oakland, California, you know, one of
the Black Panthers. And and just to hear some of
the stories that she tells. The movie that came out
(19:05):
about Fred Hampton's life, Judith and the Messiah, it just
brings tears in my eyes every time I watched that,
and all of that was at the hands of the
federal government. But I got off track here just having
you talk about the beauty of black people. And that's
really how I came to study African American history too.
I was told, you know, you'll never get a job,
(19:27):
and there's nothing relevant about what you're studying. My first
college professor of African American history and steal my surrogate
mother mentor to this day, doctor Dorothy Saylor and Mary.
I remember walking into that class as a freshman. You know,
I signed up for Black history and I see this
white woman with blond hair and greenish kind of eyes
(19:47):
standing in the front of the classroom. I said, I
must be in the wrong class, because only black people
can teach black history. Ain't nobody gonna understand this lady,
This white lady ain't gonna understand. And she forever changed
my life and is definitely the reason, similar to yours,
that I've came to embrace the beauty of black history
(20:09):
and its relevance to America's history into world history. Oh
my god, Dr Dirthy, say, let me shout her out.
She has a pH d in African American history, and
I want to shout out Dr Herbert Douglas. He's eighty
six years old. We stay in touch, and I was
(20:29):
nervous about sending in my book because he's an intimidating figure.
He taught in an Ivy League school, and my husband
mailed him the book and he sent me back a
card with the quote that this impressive publication is a
significant contribution to children's literature. So I didn't care what
anybody else said. If Dr Douglas felt that way about
(20:51):
my book, I knew I was onto something. That's it now,
when the teacher is pleased. The ultimate teacher is please.
I know this is probably unfair to ask you to
pick one of those twenty eight lessons, but would you
(21:13):
be willing to share one of the twenty eight lessons
with us today? Yes, that lesson would be we will
celebrate African American beauty. African American beauty comes in a
variety of shades, facial features, and hair textures. That is
(21:34):
our beauty, and we should compare ourselves to our beauty,
to our culture and not other cultures. Hey man, let's
go deeper with that. Why that, Why is that the
one you're sharing? And why put that in the book?
I have to say, they're all very special. I came
from a severely dysfunctional family and my mother was very light,
(21:55):
she could have passed for white, actually, And my father
was very dark, and she would argue with him constantly,
and whenever she would argue with him, she would call
him all kinds of names regarding his color. And I
have to be honest, as a little girl, no matter
what she said, I just thought my father was so handsome.
(22:17):
I just thought he was regal. He had such a
laid back personality. Oh my goodness, absolutely handsome. Nothing anyone
could say would convince me otherwise. And when I was
teaching a lot of my darker skinned students felt inferior.
They had an inferiority complex, and I would hear them
calling each other names. And so to me, this was
(22:41):
the most important lesson as a teacher, to let everyone
know that our hair texture has a purpose and that
our features are all equal, which they are just different.
Come on, you better preach that, sermon, sister mayor, you
better go ahead and preach that, and I can relate.
And the fact that you have students of the twenty
(23:02):
first century still harboring, still carrying that means that the
eurocentric worldview in the Eurocentric and part of that worldview
is what's beautiful and what's not. And we know that
we've been socialized in this nation and even the world,
that standard of beauty has penetrated the entire world, that
(23:23):
it has polluted as a black community in the diaspora,
but particularly here in America and the United States of America,
polluted our sense of self. So, going back to brother
Marcus Garvey, that was another thing about him, that dark, dark,
beautifully black skin. And he said, the black people rise up.
(23:43):
You beautiful people. I mean, so it wasn't even yet.
It was the solidarity point, but it was also him
reminding us that we are brilliant and we are beautiful,
and sint Mary, to hear you say that children of
this day still feel that way that they are in
theory because we're passing that down and as much as
we think we have advanced it, you know what meant
(24:05):
a lot to me and I would love to hear
how you felt about it. But I wish twelve year
old Nina because I'm a darker skinned black woman. I'm
a chocolate gorgeous complexion. By the way, I love darker complexions.
I always have. Thank you, sister Mary. Well, everybody comes
from the original. Let me just say that, Okay, the
mitochondro eve that you know all life originated in Africa,
and you best believe she was a chocolate chocolate sister.
(24:27):
But we have been programmed to think the lighter you are,
the closer to white you are, the more beautiful you are.
And you are causing me to go back into my
younger self and even today as a grown, accomplished, beautiful,
hot chocolate sister, I still struggle with how I was
(24:50):
treated in elementary school, in junior high and also high school.
As it relates to my complexion, to the huge of
my skin. I remember at elementary school, this lighter skin girl.
We were sending in line to go to on the
field trip, and she just came up and and she
rubbed her hand against my face. Now while she was
(25:12):
all invading my space like that, that's a whole another thing.
And then she rubbed her hand up against her face, Mary,
and she turned and she said to me, she said,
my skin she was lighter than me. My skin is
softer than yours because I'm lighter than you. Uh, I mean,
these things are poured into children at a very young age.
(25:34):
One of my nieces, she's she's grown now, but when
she was growing up, she had a white barbie and
a black barbie. I for one, don't believe that black
children should be giving white dolls until they have a
sense of their beauty and their purpose. However, her paternal
grandmother felt the need to give her this white barbie down,
and so I brought the dolls. Because she was only
(25:54):
playing with white barbie, vanilla barbie. She went playing with
chocolate barbie. And I asked her why, and she told
me that the vanilla barbie hair was longer, and I said, well,
let's bring the barbies together. Now she's a little little girl, Mary,
there was no difference in the length of the hair
of those barbes. You better know her mother didn't sit
her down and say the white barbie is better. Society
(26:15):
told her that's that the white barbie was better, you know.
And so I'm so happy for you and just you
allowing the spirit to lead and to guide you, because
in those twenty eight lessons, every single one is important,
and Germaine to what is needed to help raise healthy
(26:37):
black children who are aware of their worth and their beauty,
but also to help children who are not black understand
the worth exactly exactly. I've had white pediatrician and white therapist.
Many white people have contacted me to let me know
how much they learned from my book. Very good, and
(26:59):
that's that's we gotta do again. African American history is
America's history, and everybody should learn. And if you are
in a classroom anywhere in America, but especially if you
teach in a district that is predominantly black, you must
understand what it takes to teach black children and also
understand the stigma steal that is associated with being black,
(27:22):
and that there's colorism because we talk a lot about racism.
We talked about it, we ain't doing much about it,
but we don't talk a lot. I don't think about
its anti blackness and colorism absolutely color Let me share
another story with you. I was in high school and
I remember I was trying out for a play. And
I finished my high school years back in Cleveland. For
(27:44):
like five brief years of my life, I was out
of the state growing up. My mother took us somewhere
else for about five years, and I tried out for
this play. It was a Charlie Brown and Mary. I
gotta tell you, I tried out for Lucy and I
knew I did that. Have you ever had a more
win in your life where you just said, I know
I did that. I knew I did that. And I
(28:04):
still up there and I was waiting, you know, when
the teacher puts who got the parts? I didn't see
my name by Lucy, and so I went to my
drama teacher who was the one that was directing to play,
and asked him. I said, I know I was the
best Lucy, and he said, yes, Nina, you were the
best Lucy. But Lucy is not black. Oh my god, Mary,
(28:28):
that hurt me to my heart. Oh yeah, of course
I still carry it to this day. Lucy ain't black,
you hear me? Yea man, and people have no idea
when you perpetuate this. And not only does a larger society,
mainstream society perpetuates this, Black people continue to perpetuate it
too because they don't know any better, because they still
(28:52):
learning from what they're being taught suddenly unconsciously, you know,
absolutely so blur gonnally it is. Yeah, yeah, we we
need we definitely need to do a better job. I
encourage each and every person who is joining us today
on Hello somebody to go, please go, don't run. Well,
(29:14):
you don't have to go anywhere. You can order it online,
but please order Mary Cole Watson's book. It's Wisdom Warriors,
twenty two short stories for African American youth. And that
the lessons are in the last and the last story. Okay,
And how can people find you on social media? And
where can they order your book? Wisdom Warriors dot com.
(29:39):
It's where they can order my book. Very good, Well,
please order it again that's wisdom, warriors. Let's talk about race.
Please get it, Married Cole Watson, and it includes the
essential lessons for African American youth. And I would add
to that the essential lessons for African American you and
(30:00):
those who love those African American youth. How about that,
Mary Cole Watson. Please keep using your gifts and your
skills to edify the world. Keep bringing that wisdom and
that love that the Creator has given you for our children,
lifting them up as individuals, and also educating and illuminating
(30:21):
the very people who are in classrooms with them. I'm
talking about the grown folks. Keep doing what you're doing
to make this world a better place. We are blessed
by your existence. I will and I thank you so
much for inviting me on your podcast. It's been an
honor and I really enjoyed listening to your words of
(30:43):
wisdom at the gathering where I met you well, thank
you so much, I and I was glad to meet
you too. I think that that happened on purpose, It
wasn't by accident. And here we are interview and the
one and only Mary Cole Watson. Thank you so much,
and for all of you who have joined us today.
We have appreciate you so much, the hell, the entire
Hello Somebody, team, appreciate you for being with us. Make
(31:06):
sure that you like our podcast. Make sure you give
us those five stars, baby, if you believe it in
what we are doing. And remember to keep the faith
and keep the fight. Hello somebody, because everybody is somebody.
Turn mordinary ordinary things somebody, and then turn believed, turning us,
(31:36):
giving us somebody time. Yeah, change is coming. The pain
is nothing trying to shoot for the stars. If you're
gonna ain't for something. Embrace the love for your brother
and sister. You need these demission brush. We need the puzzle.
This picture just painted up and frame it up for
(31:57):
the world to see. Ain't to hatred up enough for enough,
it's enough making changes or enough in turn of a
voice of the truth to wise word. Despire the youth
to keep their eyes on the roof. It's the end.
Never give up. Keep conquering gold to the eye and
telling the silver wisdom is gold that to the end.
Now is your time. Stay firm, don't fold to the
a or you need is the three bones. That's what
(32:18):
Randie said. Now I'm gonna make sure these words from
Randie spread for all the hair, to give it your air.
She can take him to the Promised Land. I swear
world pieces what they fear. Queen's to Cleveland, Ohio. We're here, famous, famous,
turning any qual Somebody need to turn Why somebody ship
(32:43):
to turn out? Queen, somebody need to turn times great
one of those great more hands. We will not leave.
(33:06):
Hello Somebody is a production of I Heart Radio and
the Black Effect Network. For more podcast from our heart Radio,
visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.