April 21, 2022 • 43 mins
Senator Turner continues to ignite the call for democracy by discussing the 21st Century Economic Bill of Rights with experts, Harvey J. Kaye (Prof, Emeritus Democracy & Justice Studies, UW Green Bay - @harveyjkaye) and Alan Minsky (Executive Director, Progressive Democrats of America - @pdamerica).
LINKS:
Progressive Democrats of America
https://pdamerica.org/
Learn more about Professor Kaye and his published books:
https://www.simonandschuster.com/authors/Harvey-J-Kaye/404881754
Check out the May Issue of In These Times for SNT's feature story.
https://inthesetimes.com/
Twitter:
@harveyjkaye - Prof, Emeritus Democracy & Justice Studies, UW Green Bay,
@pdamerica – Alan Minsky, Executive Director, Progressive Democrats of America
Asa Philip Randolph (A. Philip Randolph) – Organizer, Father of the Civil Rights Movement
https://aflcio.org/about/history/labor-history-people/asa-philip-randolph
Quotes:
We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.” People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made. In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all regardless of station, race, or creed.
– President Franklin Delano Roosevelt (F.D.R.)
https://billofrightsinstitute.org/activities/franklin-roosevelt-second-bill-of-rights-1944
What the people want is very simple, they want an America as good as its promise – Congresswoman Barbara Jordan
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/10037548-what-the-people-want-is-very-simple---they-want
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Turning. Welcome to Hello Somebody, a production of The Black
(00:28):
Effect Podcast Network and I Heart Media. Where we rage
against the machine, where we raise our voices against injustice
and stand up for justice. Where we embrace hope and
joy with an optimism for a bright or more just future.
Each week I'll be dropping knowledge, whether it's a solo
(00:49):
episode from me or a hearty discussion with esteem guests
doing great things in spaces and places of politics, entertainment,
social justice, and beyond. We get real, baby, I mean
really real. We get honest, We get up close and
personal for you, Yes, you, because everybody is Somebody. Before
(01:16):
we begin, I want to give a special shout out
to my team, Thank you, Sam, Tiffany, Sam and the
team over at Good Juju Studios, Erica England, Pepper Chambers,
the Hot One, and my social media team. Hello Somebody,
we are back family. I'm so glad that you're here.
(01:38):
Yet again, we have an extraordinary topic, extraordinary guest. And
yes I say this quite often because I'm just not
gonna have people on the show that I don't find extraordinary.
Hello Somebody on that emy? What's since with that? Make? Yes,
we are bringing extraordinary content on Hello somebody on the
Black Effect podcast network. That is what we do for
(02:00):
right now. This is something that really will penetrate your heart,
your soul, in your mind, at least I think so.
And I know my two fabulous guests believe the same
thing I have with me to day, baby, none other
than Alan Minsky, who is the executive director of an
organization called p d A. And if you don't know
(02:21):
what p d A is, let me go and shout
it out. It is the Progressive Democrats of America. How
you doing, Alan, doing great? It's great to be with you.
It is so good to be with you. And then
I have the one and only Dr Harvey K from
Wisconsin by way of New York. And he is a
(02:42):
professor authored experts on the one and only President f
DR and the New Deal era. And as he often says,
he is not here to romanticize anything about FDR in
that era. But what he does know, what we are
embracing is the great vision that President f DR has
at when it came to an economic bill of rights
(03:03):
in these United States of America. And why we have
these two with us right now is because they have
teamed up to put a little twenty one century spice
on that thing, the twenty one century Economic Bill of
Rights born from some of the foundation that President f
DR and some of his contemporaries. But President f DR
laid and as Professor Harvey K. Continues to remind us
(03:25):
all the Reverend Dr Martin Luther King Jr. We can
add him up in there too, with the Poor People's Movement,
which Reverend William Barber is continuing the twenty one century
version of that. And then one of the greatest union
is of the twentieth century, the one and only Asa
Philip Randolph, who led the union the Brotherhood of Sleeping
car Porters that was for black porters on the train.
(03:46):
So we're gonna talk about all of these fabulous things
right here on. Hello, somebody that the Harvey K. How
are you doing today? I'm so excited to be here,
I can tell you. It is such a thrilled I mean,
you and I have done things together, but how I
feel like I'm really in the room with you right now. Yeah,
I'm feeling that too. We are virtual you all, but
we hopefully will be in the room in three D
(04:07):
together really soon. I'm feeling this too. I was so
excited and getty to talk to you both about this.
I just want to commend you both for bringing your
talents together and season this moment of magnificence. You know,
I was interviewed by a reporter who's writing an article
about the history that is about to be made by
Justice Contagi Brown Jackson, and one of the questions that
(04:28):
he asked me was the importance of this moment and
how do we separate representation from results? In other words,
is it enough for the black community in particular to
know that history is about to be made with the
first black woman Supreme Court justice? And what about the
other things on the list for the black community as well?
(04:50):
And what I said, I'm paraphraising my own self. It
is magnificent in every way, and we need to pause
and reflect on this magnificence. But I want some other
magnificent things that happen to To To add to that, is
that we need other magnificent things that happen along with
this particular magnificent moment and queue in YouTube, because part
of creating more magnificent moments for all working class people,
(05:13):
and this would have a disproportionate positive impact on the
black community, is the magnificence of embracing a twenty one
century economic Bill of rights. So, Dr K, I'm gonna
start with you, and then we're gonna go over to
Brother Allan. Tell us about you know why this moment?
Why right now? And what is it about the foundation
that President f DR. Although not perfect, none of us are.
(05:35):
What is it about the foundation that he built in
the nineteen forties that is relevant to right now? It's
relevant for a start, and let's hope we can make
it happen. It's relevant for a start because when FDR
pronounced the Economic Bill of Rights in ninety four in
the State of the Union message, he did so empowered
(05:56):
by the fact that around of Americans had indicated in
polling that they wanted it, and he are taking you're
making that can tell making it up. I just don't
believe it. Well, you're a fellow historian. We don't make
(06:17):
we I'm joking. I remember when I came across the evidence,
when I found the polls themselves, I thought, this is
unbelievable because it was not only that of Democrats who
were asked wanted national healthcare guaranteed universal health care. Seventy
five percent of Republicans wanted it. The Republicans came to
(06:39):
realize they came within inches themselves into of endorsing the
idea of universal healthcare, but they didn't. The key thing
is is that ever since nineteen forty four, the kinds
of things that are enumerated in FDR's original Economic Bill
of Rice I guaranteed healthcare, a guaranteed job at a
living wage, guaranteed education for young people to pursue it
(07:02):
as far as their capacities would take them. Okay, Americans
wanted them, and Americans have always wanted them. What's fascinating
is to think about this along the way. First of all,
in nineteen sixty the Democratic Party platform was actually constructed
in terms of the Economic Bill of Rights. It actually
(07:24):
enumerates the economic Bill of Rights and what legislation they
intend to pursue to realize it. Lyndon Johnson and the
Great Society and the War on Poverty basically took on
some of that. But what's more interesting we've talked about
ASA Philip Randolph is Randolph in nineteen sixty five issued
a Freedom Budget for All Americans, a ten year plan
(07:47):
to bring an end to poverty, to renew rural areas
and to revitalize urban areas. And one hundred and fifty
leading labor leaders, civil rights leaders, academics, university presidents, foundation
leaders endorsed the idea. They absolutely endorsed the idea. And moreover,
(08:11):
Johnson himself was going to hold and did hold a
White House symposium to honor A. Philip Randolph's commitment to
those very kinds of things. The tragedy is, of course,
the war in Vietnam that LBJ was so committed to
pursuing drained resources from the possibilities. But it was not
the end of the story. In nineteen sixty eight, not
(08:32):
long before the tragedy of his assassination, Martin Luther King Jr.
Issued a call for an economic bill of rights for
all Americans. Now, the coal itself was heard, but it
was not picked up again as a possibility until Senator
Bernie Sanders, in his campaign, especially in twenty nine twenty
(08:55):
on his website, laid out twenty one century type of
economic bill of rights. And I can't tell you how
excited I was. I mean, I was just overjoyed. Well,
this past year, as you know, I was requested by
the young folks at the Gravel Institute to do a
video on FDRs Economic Bill of Rights. They did a
really great production of it, and Alan and I had
(09:16):
been working together on radio and some YouTube shows, and Alan,
thank goodness, thought this could be a great project to
really take on and pursue in association with Progressive Democrats
and hopefully other progressive groups would sign on. And then,
seriously speaking, when you and I connected, when you reached out,
(09:39):
I knew we could make things happen. That's how optimistic
I am. Right now, that's beautiful dot here. When I
saw you rolling with Alan, you know, that's it. That's
the sil of approval right there. And I'm glad that
you I d M do you. I was so excited
and giddy about what you both are doing. And this
is um. I am incredibly blessed to be one of
(10:00):
what I hope is millions of people on this journey
with both of you. But it takes somebody to start
to spark and doctor as you laid out. Senator Bernie
Sanders certainly cemented that spark in twenty twenty. We had
started it in twenty sixteen. I was right there with him,
as many of the people who are listening to us today,
no on both of his campaigns, and to really have
a presidential candidate call it out in that way, it
(10:23):
hadn't been done for quite some time. So brother Ala Minski,
we queuing you in on this. Why did PDA take
this up as a course? P DA? Of course we
we were the sole national organization to call on relatively
obscure Vermont senator run for president and uh the decision
was made by the leadership of PDA, and and I
(10:47):
was at the retreat at the top of two team
where it was officially approved by the group of leaders
from PDA who are at the retreat. And he's launched
the Run Bernie Run campaign and we were by ourselves
trip hug. Fourteen months I remember watching on Tell Vision
state senator from Ohio described the change in mind that
she had upon hearing of Senator Bernie Sanders, and instantly um,
(11:10):
at that moment, I have became a fan of Nina Turners,
and I remained so through to this day. Of course,
But why now? Because a few reasons, I would say,
One is, we have massive imbalances and the distribution of
wealth in our society, and the economic message of the
progressive left resonates with the general population. And look, the
(11:33):
Progressive Least has tremendous assets, including majority support for much,
if not most, if not all, of its policy positions
across the totality of American society, and certainly a much
better level of support than we do as a political
formation in elections. Now, why is that we have tremendous
material disadvantages compared to the establishment? Now? Why is that?
(11:56):
Because wealth is incredibly concentrated in the United States, and
we know the power of money in American politics. But
another reason is because the still the major media narrative
is defined within sort of a politically established media, and
they are not going to give us the opportunity to
present our economic policies in the way that we could.
(12:17):
And we need to have incredible clarity in our messaging
around specifically economic policies because the status quo. There are
elements of the progressive agenda that they may embrace, they
may have a soft embrace, They're not likely going to
embrace a challenge to the economic concentration and political power
that goes along with that economic concentration of wealth and society.
(12:40):
When the very thing that American people want is to
have a prosperous middle class society. I think the Century
Bill of Rights is also very important to bring forward
to because the post f DR economic distribution within American
society was the most prosperous middle class society the world
(13:00):
had ever seen. Unfortunately and tragically, of course, it was
only extended to white Americans in the twenty century. It
has to absolutely and will be in no way, shape
or form, cannot be embraced unless it is clearly accessible
to all populations. I could go on from here, but
the welfare of American society if we can adopt these
(13:22):
economic policies and we can return to having a prosperous
real class society, not only will it be a boon
to all of our lives in tremendous ways, it would
be an incredible economic boom for the United States of America.
Just to give an example, we're the only major industrial
technological the so called rich countries in the world that
(13:43):
actually has a massive pool of four people inside it. Basically,
the Century Economic Bill of Rights in imperfect ways, is
basically embraced by every other industrial technological society and the
world in the world. We know they all have universal
basically single payer healthcare since MS we don't. Okay, we
also know that they do not have massive pools of
(14:05):
poverty in their society, they don't have mass incarceration like
the United States of America. You can go down a
whole spring of social indices, and the domestic population of
the United States is doing substantially worse. Drug addiction, depression rates, etcetera.
All of them are absent in the other industrialized, technological societies.
And so if we in the United States look at
(14:27):
sixty million Americans, maybe even more than that, who would
be lifted economically by the economic social contract inherent in
the twenty one century Economic Bill of Rights that is
massive GDP growth, among other things, all of the society
will benefit. Imagine all the people who can be entrepreneurs,
(14:49):
if they can enter the middle class, how they'll have
more money to spend the You know, it's very important
that we also have the kind of industrial policy to
go along with it. And that's also there from the
opponents of the twenty century Economic Bill of Rights that
address things like the climate crisis, because we need a
recreation of manufacturing in the United States. But at its
basic thrust, it's the idea that if you work a
(15:12):
job is a full time job. You only should have
one job, and you should have a living wage. By
the way, one other thing to note that Americans do
that is not prominent in other countries. We overwork. We
don't have control of our own lives and the way
that people in other countries do because we're working for eight, twelve,
twenty more hours per week than people in other countries
(15:34):
where basically when they work their jobs, they have a
living wage for there to live in their societies. Let's
rest right there. And I often talk about when we
talk think about quality of life. To me, that is
that it encapsulates a lot. And I think that we
have a mentality in the United States of America that
(15:56):
poor people or the working poor are especially not entitled
to a high quality of life. Some of that is
addressed in economic della rights. In other words, should be
able to smell the roses, should be able to buy
a gently use certified use car. Should be able to
(16:17):
spend time with their children if they have them, if
they don't have children. Should be able to do the
things that encapsulate what it means to live a full life.
That you are not working your fingers to the bone
all day, every day, and that is foreign to a
lot of people in this country. We have been programmed
to think that you should be working a two and
(16:38):
three jobs just to make ends meet, and that there
is no place for you if you are poor, to
sit back and take in the beauty that is life,
the beauty that is mother Earth. And that really gets
to me because I watched my parents who are among
the working poor, but particularly I think a lot of
(16:59):
listeners who listen on a regular basis no. My part
of my story of having my mother died at a
very young age. She was only forty two years old.
She had a brain aneurysm, and so that is physical.
But what hasten that death has a lot to do
with her environment, you know, having seven children, being among
(17:20):
the working poor, being stressed the hell out, you know,
even in the best conditions, having seven keys. I don't
know how she did it, but it's a lot of
extra stressors and being a black woman in America and
having those particular variables, and being seen as a throwaway
of somebody that caused its own pain in her life,
having seven children. Pain for why did you have so
many children? You couldn't afford those children, you know, just
(17:42):
all of the judgments that are placed on people who
are poor, and we come to accept the collective, we
to accept a notion that if you are poor somehow
it is totally your fault something that you did or
did not do right. And if you are ultra ultra healthy,
you are grand and perfect and therefore you have done
(18:03):
everything right, and so you are getting what you deserve
as the ultra ultra ultra ultra wealthy person. And that
poor person is getting what they deserve because they did
something to cause it. And so what our conversation is
encapsulating the three of us believe that there is some
systemic failures. And when Alan, when you talked about where
(18:23):
fair and made me want to switch that around and
say where fair as in the well being of people
in this country that would extend to the world. Did
I encapsulate that that I that I captured absolutely beautifully.
And you know, one of the things that I when
I do these conversations on the subject, I do need
(18:44):
to be cut off because I can go on forever.
Dr Harvey k is shaking his head, y'all, He's shaking
his head. The social benefits are just legion are absolute legion. Look,
people think the free college is unaffordable. People act like
it's free college where everybody in the society it wants.
No people go to college for four years out of
(19:04):
their lives. It's something society you can afford other societies
almost again, you know, even as Germany people think that
there's been a neoliberalization, there's been some of some of
the other prosperous countries in the world. And yet under
Angela Merkel is the chancellor of Germany. Do you know
they made not only college free through university for all
people in Germany that if you go in the stat
(19:27):
and you live there, all foreigners are able to go
to German universities and colleges for free if they want to.
You don't even to be a resident. It's all doable.
Let me say something. I always got a kick out
of this fact that our tenth right in the Economic
Bill of Rights, which we've sort of implied already, the
right to recreation and participation in civic and democratic life.
(19:50):
And one of the things that we talked about is
the fact that when FDR created a little commission to
give him advice in the thirties and fouries as to
what a post depression, post war it might be. Like.
They actually proposed the right to adventure. I remember one
time you and I were talking, and you love them,
and I can tell you that I think it's just
a great idea that Americans should have a right to adventure. Look,
(20:13):
we're supposed to be a grand experiment, so adventure ought
to be part of it. The other thing I want
to say is that we built into this economic Bill
of Rights a series of initiatives that would enhance American democracy.
Alan has spoken powerfully of the question of prosperity. I
want to emphasize that this is an essential plan for redeeming,
(20:37):
for rescuing and enhancing democracy in the face of the
crisis that we are in right now. Redeeming I love it, man,
you're taking me to church. Thank you. I love that
word too. And everyone says, isn't that kind of religious?
And I said, well, yeah, I mean yeah it is.
We Oh you speak in my love language on that redeeming.
(20:58):
And when Alan said lee regions of social benefits, I
mean that it's something about those. It is the expectation.
Our expectation levels are low, and people who want to
maintain the status quo. They want it that way, They
want folks not to expect. Let's go back to the
Concel student that we know think the Debt Collective and
all the other organizations like p d A and the
Dream Defenders and so many other organizations that are right
(21:21):
in lockstep was pushing this president to just go head
on and cancel the student that I want to use
that as an example because part of what FDR envisioned
was education for all. He might not have envisioned it
in the same way that we do in the twenty
one century, but that marker was there. Was it not
education for all? So we can imagine it anyway we want.
(21:42):
We can reimagine it for the twenty one century. And
the thought that we have forty five million people and
the folks who love those forty five million people impacted
because everybody has somebody that loves them, forty five million
people and their families impacted by about one point seven
trillion dollars worth of debt, that we would not do
(22:05):
what was necessary to relieve them of that debt and
flood this economy with a lot of goodness. People would
have more disposable income, and I just don't believe, and
I wish I kind of understand it now more than
even when I was in college. As a first generation
college graduate. It makes no damn sense logically for my
life that I am going to sign up to carry
(22:27):
this kind of debt for what the crime of trying
to make my life better and my family's life better.
And by extension, there is a communal benefit to me
gaining a higher education. I would make more money over
over my lifetime than just all of the It's a
great returnal investment to me that this country would extend
its paradigm to pre K to college, evoke ad and
(22:49):
that we would see that as our social contract in
the same way that we say we see K through
twelve education. All it is is an expansion of what
we already do. Why can't we get that? I don't
understand what's so hard about doing this? And the president.
The same authority that this president or any other president
has over the Department of Education and those federal loans.
(23:10):
The authority that the president has to place a moratorium
is the same authority that the president has to cancel it. All.
I want to say two things. I want to keep
them simple and straight court as best as that possibly can.
First of all, the student debt crisis emerged pretty much
simultaneously with the transformation and the Democratic Party away from
being a party that embraced the policies of FDR and
(23:31):
then basically capitulated to organism, especially around the presidency of
Bill Clinton in that period, to be a neoliberal party.
And that's right when student debt starts going up and
up and up, and that's the neoliberal social contract. The
majority of the population is basically put on a hamster
wheel of debt, and they have to race and race
and race and race and do whatever they can to
(23:52):
try to think those debt payments to keep their heads
above water. And that's their lives. They overwork all the
things we talked about. The second very straightfor of thing
I want to say is even more straightforward. Right now
in the country, there are three political formations inside two
political parties. Okay, there are on the right wing, there
are the Trumpian reactionaries between softcore and hardcore racists on
(24:15):
the right wing of the Republican Party. I'd argue that
in terms of political economy, you can group together the
neoliberal Democrats and neoliberal Republicans. So from the Mitt Romney
Republicans through the Clinton Democrats and then now there are emerged,
thanks to people like Senator Bernie Sanders and Senator to
Mean Turner, a new political formation known to the American
(24:37):
people who are progressives. They are inside the Democratic Party,
and when it comes to something like student debt, Progressive
Democrats say what they mean, we are for canceling student debt.
And as the executive director of Progressive Democrats of America,
I can say, and I can say this is also
true of all of our other partners on the progressive
left organizations. People are probably familiar with a group of them.
(25:00):
We will support a candidate, yes, among other things that
they say we want universal student debt cancelation. If they
get into office and they do not hold that position,
we will no longer support them. And that goes issue
after issue for medicare for all, for all of the
elements to make up the legislative package of the century
economic rights. We are a political formation that are true
to our word and we stand for the remaking of
(25:22):
the American economy basically along the lines of what FDR
put out as a template. But now in the twenty
one century certainly afforded to all of the residents and
citizens in the United States. Yeah, we can build on that.
Dr K, will you enumerate the points for people who
are joining us in this conversation, and then after the enumeration,
(25:43):
I want to get into the extra special impact that
this would have on the black community and other communities
of color. Happily, here we go from the top. The
right to a useful job that pays a living way,
and we mean a living wage. The right to a
(26:03):
voice in the workplace through a union and collective bargaining.
Back in the nineteen thirties and nineteen forties, Day had
a term industrial democracy that was very much in the
minds of the New Dealers that FDR brought to Washington.
A voice in the workplace. Three the right to comprehensive
quality healthcare. And as I said, eighty five percent of
(26:26):
Americans wanted that in nineteen forty four. And I can
tell you that at no time since nineteen forty four
has less than a majority of Americans agreed with the
fundamental principle of healthcare. Four the right to a complete
cost free public education and access to broadband internet. And
I just want to add it. I don't mean to
(26:47):
go on about f DR and I'm not trying to
make him a saint. But in the nineteen thirties they
created under the New Deal, the National Youth Administration to
keep young people in school, and that included not only
what people assumed to be the white students. One million
young African American students took advantage of that, and during
(27:08):
the nineteen thirties the greatest number of students graduated high
school in American history up to that point. It also
provided for work study for college students. And then let's
not forget though he did not get the economic Bill
of Rights, he did get through the g I Bill
of Rights, which afforded twelve million of the sixteen million
(27:30):
Americans who served in uniform to pursue the betterment of
their own lives and the betterment of the nation. And
that created the prosperity of the post war. Before you
move on to that, there's, however, to that right many
black veterans, Yes, there were many who did enjoy it, okay,
But of course in the South, especially admission to white
(27:51):
universities was still segregated, okay. And it's also the case
that quite often as occurred during the nineteen thirties and
the New Deal to get things enacted, the white supremacists
who ruled the South basically carved out the kinds of
things such as National Labor Relations Act. In the Social
Security Act, they carved out agricultural workers and household workers.
(28:15):
So there is a regular pattern there. Okay, we are
post sixties now, and these are the kind of things
that we can make happen. The next the right to decent, safe,
affordable housing number six, the right to a clean environment
and a healthy planet number seven. The right to a
meaningful endowment of resources at birth and a secure retirement.
(28:39):
These two ideas, by the way, go all the way
back to the American Revolution when Thomas Payne proposed the
original Social Security Plan, and he said, not only should
we afford folks who can no longer work and should
no longer work as they reach maturity of age, but
also we should make sure young people, before they even
(29:01):
enter into work, are afforded a stake s t a
k e. A grant of money for education, for buying land,
for setting up in a business. So it goes way back,
and this is the means by which we can address
the utterly ridiculous inequalities of wealth in this country, which
of course are so bound up with the question of
(29:24):
race in America as well. Number eight the right to
sound banking and financial services. Number nine the right to
an equitable and economically fair justice system, and finally, as
I said before, the right to recreation and participation in
civic and democratic life. I'll just finish by saying number
(29:44):
two the right to a voice in the workplace, and
number nine and equitable and economically fair justice system, and
tend the right to recreation and participation in civic and
democratic life. We have built right into this the idea
that we are going to enhance American democratic life, because
let's face it, you cannot continue to have democracy unless
(30:06):
you can continue to extend and deepenness. Amen to that,
and one of the quotes from FDR that is right
in the and you both have written. There's actually two
op eds out published in Common Dreams, so I encourage
folks and will make sure we have the links in
the show notes. But the quote from FDR that you
(30:27):
both used to submit this Economic Bill of Rights when
FDR declared as you right in the century Economic Bill
of Rights op Ed and this is FDR. We have
come to a clear realization of the fact that true
individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence necessities.
(30:47):
Men are not free. We have accepted, so to speak,
a second bill of rights under which a new basis
of security and prosperity can be a ablished for all,
regardless of station, race, or create. Oh my god, yes,
(31:08):
that is quite a foundation to build upon. And he
was very visionary. Often say we need leaders have a
vision that provides provision. That's a turnerism, a vision to
provide provision. And my god, that particular quote from President
f DR encapsulates that very much. A vision that provides
provision for the people. Absolutely, that's the kind of understanding
(31:29):
we need to redeem and advantage. Then I want to
throw something into uh In the number ten. The United
States again is the only of the major countries that
doesn't guarantee a vacation time. And one of the reasons
people flip jobs as much as they do, oftentimes having
to give up jobs that they might like, especially younger
(31:51):
in life, is because they don't have any vacation time.
They can't go, they can't travel, so they have to
give up their job often in order to do something
that really should be a part of all human experience,
you know, travel the world. So it's a great point
and it goes back to a quality of life. We
should guarantee quality of life, and this century economic Bill
of Rights encapsulate those tenants that I believe are non
(32:16):
negotiable and we should stand up and say so that
every human being is entitled to these things. Oh my god,
I just love you both so very much for this,
and I feel redemption, I feel legions, I feel at all.
This is real, this is right, this is ready, this
is the right thing to do. So, Alan, how can
people who are not running and they're not in elected office,
(32:37):
how can the everyday person get involved, elevate their minds
and then get involved in this justice journey? How can
they do that? And then Dr Harvey K what is
the role for the Academy to play in this pursuit
of the economic Bill of Rights? So, Alan, we're gonna
(32:58):
start with you. Yeah, I would recommend that people, first
of all, consider reaching out to Progressive Democrats of America.
Where can reach us at info at p D America
dot org. The website is p D America dot org
and it is actually essential that you be involved in
the struggle for democracy in the way really to do
(33:21):
that is too I believe at this point, and this
is a little bit off subject, but I really do
believe this, which is that, look, we we have a
two party system in this country. I'm not a political scientist.
I haven't spent a lot of time trying to come
up with a written answer as to why our political
system has always defaulted into two parties, but it has.
(33:41):
I don't think it's changing anytime soon. The Republican Party
is off the rails, it is inaccessible to us in
oh so many ways. The Democratic Party in every state
has some kind of open apparatus to participate in it.
And I encourage people, even if they don't run for office,
to reach out to progressive organizations like pd A or
Our Revolution, because both PDA and Our Revolution, in fact,
(34:03):
we sit on a steering committee of the progressive caucuses
inside the Democratic parties across the country, and we can,
through democratic participation, work to transform the Democratic Party into
what this country needs, a people's party. I'm not going
to sell anybody on the idea that it's not a
struggle inside the Democratic Party. It is a Titanic struggle
(34:26):
inside the Democratic Party. But the way to have democracy
in this country is to have people participating in the democracy.
And I would argue to accept what is a stark
reality of a two party system, and only one of
them is reformable. And we will not ever waiver in
our commitment to a project like the twenty one century
(34:46):
Economic Bill of Rights. So please look out for chapters
of p D A lookout for chapters of our Revolution,
contact them, find a space within them, and participate in. Actually,
as Leonard Cohne says, democracy is coming to the USA,
Let's make democracy really come to the US. Amen to that,
and that to harvey the role that the Academy plays.
(35:08):
And also I'm going to add in nonprofit and faith
based institutions as well civic organizations. Okay, one thing we
haven't said, but this comes out in our writing. That
is the work we're doing, Alan and I. And here's
the thing. The Conservatives, often aligned with neoliberals, have come
after intellectuals, teachers, professors, that the whole range of what's
(35:33):
often even called the sort of public intellectual class. The
fact is that they are trying to portray us all
as only concerned with cultural issues. And there's no doubt
we're concerned about cultural issues. But what progressives must put
at the forefront of their politics is this kind of
(35:54):
economic program. Now what does that mean. It means, for
a start, that academics themselves have to learn how to
get outside of the academy. They've got an incredible story
to tell. Look at the story that we've just shared,
the story of FDR to a Philip Randolph, to Martin
Luther King Jr. To Bernie Sanders. We could take it
all the way back to the American Revolution, we can
(36:14):
take it back to Frederick Douglas. The point is there
is a progressive story, and that story is a struggle
for the purpose and promise of America life, liberty, and
the pursuit of happiness. And we have got to raise
our voices and encourage people to believe that the possibilities exist.
(36:34):
And most especially now, and I'm gonna answer a question
you haven't asked me. I'm gonna tell you that I
like a politician. Well, I'm talking about a politician, Okay,
I'm gonna tell everyone. Look, you know my students that
often asked me, how do we judge a politician. What
do we really do? They all say things, and I said,
here's what you want to remember. You want to look
(36:56):
for the candidate, for the political figure who not only
to knows you they're gonna fight for you and may
even be fighting for you, but who will inspire the
fight in you. Look, Americans, in all their diversity, carry
a kind of progressive instinct. It's rooted in the promise life,
liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Lincoln knew it. F
(37:17):
DR knew it, Martin Luther King knew it. The fact
is we have to speak to that possibility that prevails
within people to join in solidarity, whether it's in their
religious movements or in their labor unions, and they then
have to rally behind politicians who themselves are inspiring the fight. Okay,
(37:39):
I can't emphasize that enough. And by the way, if
you want to know who I had in mind when
I said who inspires the fight in us, I'm talking
about the woman who I'm speaking with right now. Okay,
Sisteranina Turner, thanks that. I really do appreciate that so much.
I mean, you have me saying that, my team saying,
I mean, it really gave me a moment to reflecting
your right. All of the leaders that I hold dear
(38:02):
to my heart did exactly what you're laying out, and
I want to throw into that mix. People like FAMILEW.
Hamer from the great State of Mississippi sharecropper, who not
let her condition dictate her putting her imprint on this world.
She's had that kind of vision. To Congresswoman Barbara Jordan,
what the people want is very simple, I'm quoting her.
(38:22):
What the people want is very simple. They want in
America as good as this promise that sums up FDR
is economic bill of rights, that sums up our twenty
one century economic bill of rights. What the people want
is very simple. They want in America as good as
this promise. How do we get there? We have enumeraated
those things, and we can always add on to it.
Because the beautiful thing about this vision is we can
(38:43):
just keep on going. Let's not stop. Let's keep building
on magnificence and opportunities. People like Congresswoman Shirley Chisholm. As
you both know, I talked about her a lot. There
have been many people across generations who hold this kind
of mentality in their hearts and their minds, and they
do what they need to do to be an inspiration
(39:05):
to people. Mother Jones comes to mind too, you know,
she was a crusader standing up for coal miners, making
it plain. One of my favorite quotes from her she
said she was at a jail and she asked this man,
why is he locked up? And he said he stole
some shoes. And she said, if you had a stolen
aid railroad, you would be a senator something like that.
I'm paraphrasing her, but but she's telling the truth, you know.
(39:27):
And she talked about the Carnegie Gang and all of that,
the robber barons, just laying it out, standing up for
coal miners and children and just the same types of
people that we are standing up for and fighting for today.
I cannot thank you both enough for joining us on
Hello Somebody. We're gonna have to come back and revisit
this topic many many times. The one and only Alan
(39:47):
Minsky and the one and only Dr Harvey k We
were talking about the twenty one century Economic Bill of Rights,
and I want to add to that life of liberty
and everybody's pursuit of happiness. That's what we're working for.
The that's what we're standing up for. Get involved, get engaged.
Please join p d A joint p d A on
this mission, joined other organizations on this mission. But don't,
(40:09):
for the love of God, do not sit on the sidelines.
You must get involved. And Dr k what is your
Twitter handle? How can folks find you? Harvey J K
ye e and I welcome all that said. He does
now he will respond. I think he will respond. You
don't have to be need to turner to get a response.
And allen p d A on Twitter at p D
(40:29):
America and you I pretty much run through at the America.
I have one, but the heck don't really use it.
So at p D America. That did ask you for
that amazing, amazing, amazing second op ed that you and
Dr Harvey K authored. Again, folks, we need you, we
need you in this fight, all of us, all of
us to Dr Martin Luther King Jr. Want to say,
(40:50):
we all can be great because baby, we all can serve.
He put the baby in there, but I am we
all can be great because we all can serve. So
let's go ahead and get into service together. Let's do that.
And all of the links and social media handles will
be in the notes, so you can just go down
there below and look at the notes and be able
to read the articles, be able to find P. D. A,
(41:12):
be able to find Alan, and you will also be
able to find Dr Harvey. K Oh, my God. Thank
you both so very much, and I am looking forward
to continue to be on this justice journey with you.
I want everybody who's listening to keep the faith and
keep the fight. Tryry thing somebody and make it turn,
(41:43):
turn somebody turn. Yeah, changes coming. The pain is nothing
trying to shoot for the stars. If you're gonna aim
for something, embrace the love for your brother and sister.
You need these the mission brush. We need to puzzle this,
pictures painted up and frame it up for the world
(42:05):
to see. Hain't to hate it up. Enough is enough,
it's enough making changes enough in turn of a voice
of the truth to wise world. DESPI the youth to
keep their eyes on the roof. It's the end. Never
give up, keep conquering goals to the eye. Intelligent, silver,
wisdom is gold. Back to the end. Now is your time.
Stay firm, don't fold to the a or you need
is the three boons. That's what Rannie said. Now, I'm
(42:28):
gonna make sure these words from Rannie spread for all
the hair, to give it your air. She can take
him to the Promised Land. I swear world pieces what
they fear. From Queen's to Cleveland, Ohio, we're here famous
Turning Somebody you need to turn Spanning Somebody, turn up,
(42:56):
Somebody need turn up times one of our hands. Hello
Somebody is a production of I Heart Radio and the
(43:18):
Black Effect Network. For more podcast from our heart Radio,
visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows,
Turning. Welcome to Hello Somebody, a production of The Black
(00:28):
Effect Podcast Network and I Heart Media. Where we rage
against the machine, where we raise our voices against injustice
and stand up for justice. Where we embrace hope and
joy with an optimism for a bright or more just future.
Each week I'll be dropping knowledge, whether it's a solo
(00:49):
episode from me or a hearty discussion with esteem guests
doing great things in spaces and places of politics, entertainment,
social justice, and beyond. We get real, baby, I mean
really real. We get honest, We get up close and
personal for you, Yes, you, because everybody is Somebody. Before
(01:16):
we begin, I want to give a special shout out
to my team, Thank you, Sam, Tiffany, Sam and the
team over at Good Juju Studios, Erica England, Pepper Chambers,
the Hot One, and my social media team. Hello Somebody,
we are back family. I'm so glad that you're here.
(01:38):
Yet again, we have an extraordinary topic, extraordinary guest. And
yes I say this quite often because I'm just not
gonna have people on the show that I don't find extraordinary.
Hello Somebody on that emy? What's since with that? Make? Yes,
we are bringing extraordinary content on Hello somebody on the
Black Effect podcast network. That is what we do for
(02:00):
right now. This is something that really will penetrate your heart,
your soul, in your mind, at least I think so.
And I know my two fabulous guests believe the same
thing I have with me to day, baby, none other
than Alan Minsky, who is the executive director of an
organization called p d A. And if you don't know
(02:21):
what p d A is, let me go and shout
it out. It is the Progressive Democrats of America. How
you doing, Alan, doing great? It's great to be with you.
It is so good to be with you. And then
I have the one and only Dr Harvey K from
Wisconsin by way of New York. And he is a
(02:42):
professor authored experts on the one and only President f
DR and the New Deal era. And as he often says,
he is not here to romanticize anything about FDR in
that era. But what he does know, what we are
embracing is the great vision that President f DR has
at when it came to an economic bill of rights
(03:03):
in these United States of America. And why we have
these two with us right now is because they have
teamed up to put a little twenty one century spice
on that thing, the twenty one century Economic Bill of
Rights born from some of the foundation that President f
DR and some of his contemporaries. But President f DR
laid and as Professor Harvey K. Continues to remind us
(03:25):
all the Reverend Dr Martin Luther King Jr. We can
add him up in there too, with the Poor People's Movement,
which Reverend William Barber is continuing the twenty one century
version of that. And then one of the greatest union
is of the twentieth century, the one and only Asa
Philip Randolph, who led the union the Brotherhood of Sleeping
car Porters that was for black porters on the train.
(03:46):
So we're gonna talk about all of these fabulous things
right here on. Hello, somebody that the Harvey K. How
are you doing today? I'm so excited to be here,
I can tell you. It is such a thrilled I mean,
you and I have done things together, but how I
feel like I'm really in the room with you right now. Yeah,
I'm feeling that too. We are virtual you all, but
we hopefully will be in the room in three D
(04:07):
together really soon. I'm feeling this too. I was so
excited and getty to talk to you both about this.
I just want to commend you both for bringing your
talents together and season this moment of magnificence. You know,
I was interviewed by a reporter who's writing an article
about the history that is about to be made by
Justice Contagi Brown Jackson, and one of the questions that
(04:28):
he asked me was the importance of this moment and
how do we separate representation from results? In other words,
is it enough for the black community in particular to
know that history is about to be made with the
first black woman Supreme Court justice? And what about the
other things on the list for the black community as well?
(04:50):
And what I said, I'm paraphraising my own self. It
is magnificent in every way, and we need to pause
and reflect on this magnificence. But I want some other
magnificent things that happen to To To add to that, is
that we need other magnificent things that happen along with
this particular magnificent moment and queue in YouTube, because part
of creating more magnificent moments for all working class people,
(05:13):
and this would have a disproportionate positive impact on the
black community, is the magnificence of embracing a twenty one
century economic Bill of rights. So, Dr K, I'm gonna
start with you, and then we're gonna go over to
Brother Allan. Tell us about you know why this moment?
Why right now? And what is it about the foundation
that President f DR. Although not perfect, none of us are.
(05:35):
What is it about the foundation that he built in
the nineteen forties that is relevant to right now? It's
relevant for a start, and let's hope we can make
it happen. It's relevant for a start because when FDR
pronounced the Economic Bill of Rights in ninety four in
the State of the Union message, he did so empowered
(05:56):
by the fact that around of Americans had indicated in
polling that they wanted it, and he are taking you're
making that can tell making it up. I just don't
believe it. Well, you're a fellow historian. We don't make
(06:17):
we I'm joking. I remember when I came across the evidence,
when I found the polls themselves, I thought, this is
unbelievable because it was not only that of Democrats who
were asked wanted national healthcare guaranteed universal health care. Seventy
five percent of Republicans wanted it. The Republicans came to
(06:39):
realize they came within inches themselves into of endorsing the
idea of universal healthcare, but they didn't. The key thing
is is that ever since nineteen forty four, the kinds
of things that are enumerated in FDR's original Economic Bill
of Rice I guaranteed healthcare, a guaranteed job at a
living wage, guaranteed education for young people to pursue it
(07:02):
as far as their capacities would take them. Okay, Americans
wanted them, and Americans have always wanted them. What's fascinating
is to think about this along the way. First of all,
in nineteen sixty the Democratic Party platform was actually constructed
in terms of the Economic Bill of Rights. It actually
(07:24):
enumerates the economic Bill of Rights and what legislation they
intend to pursue to realize it. Lyndon Johnson and the
Great Society and the War on Poverty basically took on
some of that. But what's more interesting we've talked about
ASA Philip Randolph is Randolph in nineteen sixty five issued
a Freedom Budget for All Americans, a ten year plan
(07:47):
to bring an end to poverty, to renew rural areas
and to revitalize urban areas. And one hundred and fifty
leading labor leaders, civil rights leaders, academics, university presidents, foundation
leaders endorsed the idea. They absolutely endorsed the idea. And moreover,
(08:11):
Johnson himself was going to hold and did hold a
White House symposium to honor A. Philip Randolph's commitment to
those very kinds of things. The tragedy is, of course,
the war in Vietnam that LBJ was so committed to
pursuing drained resources from the possibilities. But it was not
the end of the story. In nineteen sixty eight, not
(08:32):
long before the tragedy of his assassination, Martin Luther King Jr.
Issued a call for an economic bill of rights for
all Americans. Now, the coal itself was heard, but it
was not picked up again as a possibility until Senator
Bernie Sanders, in his campaign, especially in twenty nine twenty
(08:55):
on his website, laid out twenty one century type of
economic bill of rights. And I can't tell you how
excited I was. I mean, I was just overjoyed. Well,
this past year, as you know, I was requested by
the young folks at the Gravel Institute to do a
video on FDRs Economic Bill of Rights. They did a
really great production of it, and Alan and I had
(09:16):
been working together on radio and some YouTube shows, and Alan,
thank goodness, thought this could be a great project to
really take on and pursue in association with Progressive Democrats
and hopefully other progressive groups would sign on. And then,
seriously speaking, when you and I connected, when you reached out,
(09:39):
I knew we could make things happen. That's how optimistic
I am. Right now, that's beautiful dot here. When I
saw you rolling with Alan, you know, that's it. That's
the sil of approval right there. And I'm glad that
you I d M do you. I was so excited
and giddy about what you both are doing. And this
is um. I am incredibly blessed to be one of
(10:00):
what I hope is millions of people on this journey
with both of you. But it takes somebody to start
to spark and doctor as you laid out. Senator Bernie
Sanders certainly cemented that spark in twenty twenty. We had
started it in twenty sixteen. I was right there with him,
as many of the people who are listening to us today,
no on both of his campaigns, and to really have
a presidential candidate call it out in that way, it
(10:23):
hadn't been done for quite some time. So brother Ala Minski,
we queuing you in on this. Why did PDA take
this up as a course? P DA? Of course we
we were the sole national organization to call on relatively
obscure Vermont senator run for president and uh the decision
was made by the leadership of PDA, and and I
(10:47):
was at the retreat at the top of two team
where it was officially approved by the group of leaders
from PDA who are at the retreat. And he's launched
the Run Bernie Run campaign and we were by ourselves
trip hug. Fourteen months I remember watching on Tell Vision
state senator from Ohio described the change in mind that
she had upon hearing of Senator Bernie Sanders, and instantly um,
(11:10):
at that moment, I have became a fan of Nina Turners,
and I remained so through to this day. Of course,
But why now? Because a few reasons, I would say,
One is, we have massive imbalances and the distribution of
wealth in our society, and the economic message of the
progressive left resonates with the general population. And look, the
(11:33):
Progressive Least has tremendous assets, including majority support for much,
if not most, if not all, of its policy positions
across the totality of American society, and certainly a much
better level of support than we do as a political
formation in elections. Now, why is that we have tremendous
material disadvantages compared to the establishment? Now? Why is that?
(11:56):
Because wealth is incredibly concentrated in the United States, and
we know the power of money in American politics. But
another reason is because the still the major media narrative
is defined within sort of a politically established media, and
they are not going to give us the opportunity to
present our economic policies in the way that we could.
(12:17):
And we need to have incredible clarity in our messaging
around specifically economic policies because the status quo. There are
elements of the progressive agenda that they may embrace, they
may have a soft embrace, They're not likely going to
embrace a challenge to the economic concentration and political power
that goes along with that economic concentration of wealth and society.
(12:40):
When the very thing that American people want is to
have a prosperous middle class society. I think the Century
Bill of Rights is also very important to bring forward
to because the post f DR economic distribution within American
society was the most prosperous middle class society the world
(13:00):
had ever seen. Unfortunately and tragically, of course, it was
only extended to white Americans in the twenty century. It
has to absolutely and will be in no way, shape
or form, cannot be embraced unless it is clearly accessible
to all populations. I could go on from here, but
the welfare of American society if we can adopt these
(13:22):
economic policies and we can return to having a prosperous
real class society, not only will it be a boon
to all of our lives in tremendous ways, it would
be an incredible economic boom for the United States of America.
Just to give an example, we're the only major industrial
technological the so called rich countries in the world that
(13:43):
actually has a massive pool of four people inside it. Basically,
the Century Economic Bill of Rights in imperfect ways, is
basically embraced by every other industrial technological society and the
world in the world. We know they all have universal
basically single payer healthcare since MS we don't. Okay, we
also know that they do not have massive pools of
(14:05):
poverty in their society, they don't have mass incarceration like
the United States of America. You can go down a
whole spring of social indices, and the domestic population of
the United States is doing substantially worse. Drug addiction, depression rates, etcetera.
All of them are absent in the other industrialized, technological societies.
And so if we in the United States look at
(14:27):
sixty million Americans, maybe even more than that, who would
be lifted economically by the economic social contract inherent in
the twenty one century Economic Bill of Rights that is
massive GDP growth, among other things, all of the society
will benefit. Imagine all the people who can be entrepreneurs,
(14:49):
if they can enter the middle class, how they'll have
more money to spend the You know, it's very important
that we also have the kind of industrial policy to
go along with it. And that's also there from the
opponents of the twenty century Economic Bill of Rights that
address things like the climate crisis, because we need a
recreation of manufacturing in the United States. But at its
basic thrust, it's the idea that if you work a
(15:12):
job is a full time job. You only should have
one job, and you should have a living wage. By
the way, one other thing to note that Americans do
that is not prominent in other countries. We overwork. We
don't have control of our own lives and the way
that people in other countries do because we're working for eight, twelve,
twenty more hours per week than people in other countries
(15:34):
where basically when they work their jobs, they have a
living wage for there to live in their societies. Let's
rest right there. And I often talk about when we
talk think about quality of life. To me, that is
that it encapsulates a lot. And I think that we
have a mentality in the United States of America that
(15:56):
poor people or the working poor are especially not entitled
to a high quality of life. Some of that is
addressed in economic della rights. In other words, should be
able to smell the roses, should be able to buy
a gently use certified use car. Should be able to
(16:17):
spend time with their children if they have them, if
they don't have children. Should be able to do the
things that encapsulate what it means to live a full life.
That you are not working your fingers to the bone
all day, every day, and that is foreign to a
lot of people in this country. We have been programmed
to think that you should be working a two and
(16:38):
three jobs just to make ends meet, and that there
is no place for you if you are poor, to
sit back and take in the beauty that is life,
the beauty that is mother Earth. And that really gets
to me because I watched my parents who are among
the working poor, but particularly I think a lot of
(16:59):
listeners who listen on a regular basis no. My part
of my story of having my mother died at a
very young age. She was only forty two years old.
She had a brain aneurysm, and so that is physical.
But what hasten that death has a lot to do
with her environment, you know, having seven children, being among
(17:20):
the working poor, being stressed the hell out, you know,
even in the best conditions, having seven keys. I don't
know how she did it, but it's a lot of
extra stressors and being a black woman in America and
having those particular variables, and being seen as a throwaway
of somebody that caused its own pain in her life,
having seven children. Pain for why did you have so
many children? You couldn't afford those children, you know, just
(17:42):
all of the judgments that are placed on people who
are poor, and we come to accept the collective, we
to accept a notion that if you are poor somehow
it is totally your fault something that you did or
did not do right. And if you are ultra ultra healthy,
you are grand and perfect and therefore you have done
(18:03):
everything right, and so you are getting what you deserve
as the ultra ultra ultra ultra wealthy person. And that
poor person is getting what they deserve because they did
something to cause it. And so what our conversation is
encapsulating the three of us believe that there is some
systemic failures. And when Alan, when you talked about where
(18:23):
fair and made me want to switch that around and
say where fair as in the well being of people
in this country that would extend to the world. Did
I encapsulate that that I that I captured absolutely beautifully.
And you know, one of the things that I when
I do these conversations on the subject, I do need
(18:44):
to be cut off because I can go on forever.
Dr Harvey k is shaking his head, y'all, He's shaking
his head. The social benefits are just legion are absolute legion. Look,
people think the free college is unaffordable. People act like
it's free college where everybody in the society it wants.
No people go to college for four years out of
(19:04):
their lives. It's something society you can afford other societies
almost again, you know, even as Germany people think that
there's been a neoliberalization, there's been some of some of
the other prosperous countries in the world. And yet under
Angela Merkel is the chancellor of Germany. Do you know
they made not only college free through university for all
people in Germany that if you go in the stat
(19:27):
and you live there, all foreigners are able to go
to German universities and colleges for free if they want to.
You don't even to be a resident. It's all doable.
Let me say something. I always got a kick out
of this fact that our tenth right in the Economic
Bill of Rights, which we've sort of implied already, the
right to recreation and participation in civic and democratic life.
(19:50):
And one of the things that we talked about is
the fact that when FDR created a little commission to
give him advice in the thirties and fouries as to
what a post depression, post war it might be. Like.
They actually proposed the right to adventure. I remember one
time you and I were talking, and you love them,
and I can tell you that I think it's just
a great idea that Americans should have a right to adventure. Look,
(20:13):
we're supposed to be a grand experiment, so adventure ought
to be part of it. The other thing I want
to say is that we built into this economic Bill
of Rights a series of initiatives that would enhance American democracy.
Alan has spoken powerfully of the question of prosperity. I
want to emphasize that this is an essential plan for redeeming,
(20:37):
for rescuing and enhancing democracy in the face of the
crisis that we are in right now. Redeeming I love it, man,
you're taking me to church. Thank you. I love that
word too. And everyone says, isn't that kind of religious?
And I said, well, yeah, I mean yeah it is.
We Oh you speak in my love language on that redeeming.
(20:58):
And when Alan said lee regions of social benefits, I
mean that it's something about those. It is the expectation.
Our expectation levels are low, and people who want to
maintain the status quo. They want it that way, They
want folks not to expect. Let's go back to the
Concel student that we know think the Debt Collective and
all the other organizations like p d A and the
Dream Defenders and so many other organizations that are right
(21:21):
in lockstep was pushing this president to just go head
on and cancel the student that I want to use
that as an example because part of what FDR envisioned
was education for all. He might not have envisioned it
in the same way that we do in the twenty
one century, but that marker was there. Was it not
education for all? So we can imagine it anyway we want.
(21:42):
We can reimagine it for the twenty one century. And
the thought that we have forty five million people and
the folks who love those forty five million people impacted
because everybody has somebody that loves them, forty five million
people and their families impacted by about one point seven
trillion dollars worth of debt, that we would not do
(22:05):
what was necessary to relieve them of that debt and
flood this economy with a lot of goodness. People would
have more disposable income, and I just don't believe, and
I wish I kind of understand it now more than
even when I was in college. As a first generation
college graduate. It makes no damn sense logically for my
life that I am going to sign up to carry
(22:27):
this kind of debt for what the crime of trying
to make my life better and my family's life better.
And by extension, there is a communal benefit to me
gaining a higher education. I would make more money over
over my lifetime than just all of the It's a
great returnal investment to me that this country would extend
its paradigm to pre K to college, evoke ad and
(22:49):
that we would see that as our social contract in
the same way that we say we see K through
twelve education. All it is is an expansion of what
we already do. Why can't we get that? I don't
understand what's so hard about doing this? And the president.
The same authority that this president or any other president
has over the Department of Education and those federal loans.
(23:10):
The authority that the president has to place a moratorium
is the same authority that the president has to cancel it. All.
I want to say two things. I want to keep
them simple and straight court as best as that possibly can.
First of all, the student debt crisis emerged pretty much
simultaneously with the transformation and the Democratic Party away from
being a party that embraced the policies of FDR and
(23:31):
then basically capitulated to organism, especially around the presidency of
Bill Clinton in that period, to be a neoliberal party.
And that's right when student debt starts going up and
up and up, and that's the neoliberal social contract. The
majority of the population is basically put on a hamster
wheel of debt, and they have to race and race
and race and race and do whatever they can to
(23:52):
try to think those debt payments to keep their heads
above water. And that's their lives. They overwork all the
things we talked about. The second very straightfor of thing
I want to say is even more straightforward. Right now
in the country, there are three political formations inside two
political parties. Okay, there are on the right wing, there
are the Trumpian reactionaries between softcore and hardcore racists on
(24:15):
the right wing of the Republican Party. I'd argue that
in terms of political economy, you can group together the
neoliberal Democrats and neoliberal Republicans. So from the Mitt Romney
Republicans through the Clinton Democrats and then now there are emerged,
thanks to people like Senator Bernie Sanders and Senator to
Mean Turner, a new political formation known to the American
(24:37):
people who are progressives. They are inside the Democratic Party,
and when it comes to something like student debt, Progressive
Democrats say what they mean, we are for canceling student debt.
And as the executive director of Progressive Democrats of America,
I can say, and I can say this is also
true of all of our other partners on the progressive
left organizations. People are probably familiar with a group of them.
(25:00):
We will support a candidate, yes, among other things that
they say we want universal student debt cancelation. If they
get into office and they do not hold that position,
we will no longer support them. And that goes issue
after issue for medicare for all, for all of the
elements to make up the legislative package of the century
economic rights. We are a political formation that are true
to our word and we stand for the remaking of
(25:22):
the American economy basically along the lines of what FDR
put out as a template. But now in the twenty
one century certainly afforded to all of the residents and
citizens in the United States. Yeah, we can build on that.
Dr K, will you enumerate the points for people who
are joining us in this conversation, and then after the enumeration,
(25:43):
I want to get into the extra special impact that
this would have on the black community and other communities
of color. Happily, here we go from the top. The
right to a useful job that pays a living way,
and we mean a living wage. The right to a
(26:03):
voice in the workplace through a union and collective bargaining.
Back in the nineteen thirties and nineteen forties, Day had
a term industrial democracy that was very much in the
minds of the New Dealers that FDR brought to Washington.
A voice in the workplace. Three the right to comprehensive
quality healthcare. And as I said, eighty five percent of
(26:26):
Americans wanted that in nineteen forty four. And I can
tell you that at no time since nineteen forty four
has less than a majority of Americans agreed with the
fundamental principle of healthcare. Four the right to a complete
cost free public education and access to broadband internet. And
I just want to add it. I don't mean to
(26:47):
go on about f DR and I'm not trying to
make him a saint. But in the nineteen thirties they
created under the New Deal, the National Youth Administration to
keep young people in school, and that included not only
what people assumed to be the white students. One million
young African American students took advantage of that, and during
(27:08):
the nineteen thirties the greatest number of students graduated high
school in American history up to that point. It also
provided for work study for college students. And then let's
not forget though he did not get the economic Bill
of Rights, he did get through the g I Bill
of Rights, which afforded twelve million of the sixteen million
(27:30):
Americans who served in uniform to pursue the betterment of
their own lives and the betterment of the nation. And
that created the prosperity of the post war. Before you
move on to that, there's, however, to that right many
black veterans, Yes, there were many who did enjoy it, okay,
But of course in the South, especially admission to white
(27:51):
universities was still segregated, okay. And it's also the case
that quite often as occurred during the nineteen thirties and
the New Deal to get things enacted, the white supremacists
who ruled the South basically carved out the kinds of
things such as National Labor Relations Act. In the Social
Security Act, they carved out agricultural workers and household workers.
(28:15):
So there is a regular pattern there. Okay, we are
post sixties now, and these are the kind of things
that we can make happen. The next the right to decent, safe,
affordable housing number six, the right to a clean environment
and a healthy planet number seven. The right to a
meaningful endowment of resources at birth and a secure retirement.
(28:39):
These two ideas, by the way, go all the way
back to the American Revolution when Thomas Payne proposed the
original Social Security Plan, and he said, not only should
we afford folks who can no longer work and should
no longer work as they reach maturity of age, but
also we should make sure young people, before they even
(29:01):
enter into work, are afforded a stake s t a
k e. A grant of money for education, for buying land,
for setting up in a business. So it goes way back,
and this is the means by which we can address
the utterly ridiculous inequalities of wealth in this country, which
of course are so bound up with the question of
(29:24):
race in America as well. Number eight the right to
sound banking and financial services. Number nine the right to
an equitable and economically fair justice system, and finally, as
I said before, the right to recreation and participation in
civic and democratic life. I'll just finish by saying number
(29:44):
two the right to a voice in the workplace, and
number nine and equitable and economically fair justice system, and
tend the right to recreation and participation in civic and
democratic life. We have built right into this the idea
that we are going to enhance American democratic life, because
let's face it, you cannot continue to have democracy unless
(30:06):
you can continue to extend and deepenness. Amen to that,
and one of the quotes from FDR that is right
in the and you both have written. There's actually two
op eds out published in Common Dreams, so I encourage
folks and will make sure we have the links in
the show notes. But the quote from FDR that you
(30:27):
both used to submit this Economic Bill of Rights when
FDR declared as you right in the century Economic Bill
of Rights op Ed and this is FDR. We have
come to a clear realization of the fact that true
individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence necessities.
(30:47):
Men are not free. We have accepted, so to speak,
a second bill of rights under which a new basis
of security and prosperity can be a ablished for all,
regardless of station, race, or create. Oh my god, yes,
(31:08):
that is quite a foundation to build upon. And he
was very visionary. Often say we need leaders have a
vision that provides provision. That's a turnerism, a vision to
provide provision. And my god, that particular quote from President
f DR encapsulates that very much. A vision that provides
provision for the people. Absolutely, that's the kind of understanding
(31:29):
we need to redeem and advantage. Then I want to
throw something into uh In the number ten. The United
States again is the only of the major countries that
doesn't guarantee a vacation time. And one of the reasons
people flip jobs as much as they do, oftentimes having
to give up jobs that they might like, especially younger
(31:51):
in life, is because they don't have any vacation time.
They can't go, they can't travel, so they have to
give up their job often in order to do something
that really should be a part of all human experience,
you know, travel the world. So it's a great point
and it goes back to a quality of life. We
should guarantee quality of life, and this century economic Bill
of Rights encapsulate those tenants that I believe are non
(32:16):
negotiable and we should stand up and say so that
every human being is entitled to these things. Oh my god,
I just love you both so very much for this,
and I feel redemption, I feel legions, I feel at all.
This is real, this is right, this is ready, this
is the right thing to do. So, Alan, how can
people who are not running and they're not in elected office,
(32:37):
how can the everyday person get involved, elevate their minds
and then get involved in this justice journey? How can
they do that? And then Dr Harvey K what is
the role for the Academy to play in this pursuit
of the economic Bill of Rights? So, Alan, we're gonna
(32:58):
start with you. Yeah, I would recommend that people, first
of all, consider reaching out to Progressive Democrats of America.
Where can reach us at info at p D America
dot org. The website is p D America dot org
and it is actually essential that you be involved in
the struggle for democracy in the way really to do
(33:21):
that is too I believe at this point, and this
is a little bit off subject, but I really do
believe this, which is that, look, we we have a
two party system in this country. I'm not a political scientist.
I haven't spent a lot of time trying to come
up with a written answer as to why our political
system has always defaulted into two parties, but it has.
(33:41):
I don't think it's changing anytime soon. The Republican Party
is off the rails, it is inaccessible to us in
oh so many ways. The Democratic Party in every state
has some kind of open apparatus to participate in it.
And I encourage people, even if they don't run for office,
to reach out to progressive organizations like pd A or
Our Revolution, because both PDA and Our Revolution, in fact,
(34:03):
we sit on a steering committee of the progressive caucuses
inside the Democratic parties across the country, and we can,
through democratic participation, work to transform the Democratic Party into
what this country needs, a people's party. I'm not going
to sell anybody on the idea that it's not a
struggle inside the Democratic Party. It is a Titanic struggle
(34:26):
inside the Democratic Party. But the way to have democracy
in this country is to have people participating in the democracy.
And I would argue to accept what is a stark
reality of a two party system, and only one of
them is reformable. And we will not ever waiver in
our commitment to a project like the twenty one century
(34:46):
Economic Bill of Rights. So please look out for chapters
of p D A lookout for chapters of our Revolution,
contact them, find a space within them, and participate in. Actually,
as Leonard Cohne says, democracy is coming to the USA,
Let's make democracy really come to the US. Amen to that,
and that to harvey the role that the Academy plays.
(35:08):
And also I'm going to add in nonprofit and faith
based institutions as well civic organizations. Okay, one thing we
haven't said, but this comes out in our writing. That
is the work we're doing, Alan and I. And here's
the thing. The Conservatives, often aligned with neoliberals, have come
after intellectuals, teachers, professors, that the whole range of what's
(35:33):
often even called the sort of public intellectual class. The
fact is that they are trying to portray us all
as only concerned with cultural issues. And there's no doubt
we're concerned about cultural issues. But what progressives must put
at the forefront of their politics is this kind of
(35:54):
economic program. Now what does that mean. It means, for
a start, that academics themselves have to learn how to
get outside of the academy. They've got an incredible story
to tell. Look at the story that we've just shared,
the story of FDR to a Philip Randolph, to Martin
Luther King Jr. To Bernie Sanders. We could take it
all the way back to the American Revolution, we can
(36:14):
take it back to Frederick Douglas. The point is there
is a progressive story, and that story is a struggle
for the purpose and promise of America life, liberty, and
the pursuit of happiness. And we have got to raise
our voices and encourage people to believe that the possibilities exist.
(36:34):
And most especially now, and I'm gonna answer a question
you haven't asked me. I'm gonna tell you that I
like a politician. Well, I'm talking about a politician, Okay,
I'm gonna tell everyone. Look, you know my students that
often asked me, how do we judge a politician. What
do we really do? They all say things, and I said,
here's what you want to remember. You want to look
(36:56):
for the candidate, for the political figure who not only
to knows you they're gonna fight for you and may
even be fighting for you, but who will inspire the
fight in you. Look, Americans, in all their diversity, carry
a kind of progressive instinct. It's rooted in the promise life,
liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Lincoln knew it. F
(37:17):
DR knew it, Martin Luther King knew it. The fact
is we have to speak to that possibility that prevails
within people to join in solidarity, whether it's in their
religious movements or in their labor unions, and they then
have to rally behind politicians who themselves are inspiring the fight. Okay,
(37:39):
I can't emphasize that enough. And by the way, if
you want to know who I had in mind when
I said who inspires the fight in us, I'm talking
about the woman who I'm speaking with right now. Okay,
Sisteranina Turner, thanks that. I really do appreciate that so much.
I mean, you have me saying that, my team saying,
I mean, it really gave me a moment to reflecting
your right. All of the leaders that I hold dear
(38:02):
to my heart did exactly what you're laying out, and
I want to throw into that mix. People like FAMILEW.
Hamer from the great State of Mississippi sharecropper, who not
let her condition dictate her putting her imprint on this world.
She's had that kind of vision. To Congresswoman Barbara Jordan,
what the people want is very simple, I'm quoting her.
(38:22):
What the people want is very simple. They want in
America as good as this promise that sums up FDR
is economic bill of rights, that sums up our twenty
one century economic bill of rights. What the people want
is very simple. They want in America as good as
this promise. How do we get there? We have enumeraated
those things, and we can always add on to it.
Because the beautiful thing about this vision is we can
(38:43):
just keep on going. Let's not stop. Let's keep building
on magnificence and opportunities. People like Congresswoman Shirley Chisholm. As
you both know, I talked about her a lot. There
have been many people across generations who hold this kind
of mentality in their hearts and their minds, and they
do what they need to do to be an inspiration
(39:05):
to people. Mother Jones comes to mind too, you know,
she was a crusader standing up for coal miners, making
it plain. One of my favorite quotes from her she
said she was at a jail and she asked this man,
why is he locked up? And he said he stole
some shoes. And she said, if you had a stolen
aid railroad, you would be a senator something like that.
I'm paraphrasing her, but but she's telling the truth, you know.
(39:27):
And she talked about the Carnegie Gang and all of that,
the robber barons, just laying it out, standing up for
coal miners and children and just the same types of
people that we are standing up for and fighting for today.
I cannot thank you both enough for joining us on
Hello Somebody. We're gonna have to come back and revisit
this topic many many times. The one and only Alan
(39:47):
Minsky and the one and only Dr Harvey k We
were talking about the twenty one century Economic Bill of Rights,
and I want to add to that life of liberty
and everybody's pursuit of happiness. That's what we're working for.
The that's what we're standing up for. Get involved, get engaged.
Please join p d A joint p d A on
this mission, joined other organizations on this mission. But don't,
(40:09):
for the love of God, do not sit on the sidelines.
You must get involved. And Dr k what is your
Twitter handle? How can folks find you? Harvey J K
ye e and I welcome all that said. He does
now he will respond. I think he will respond. You
don't have to be need to turner to get a response.
And allen p d A on Twitter at p D
(40:29):
America and you I pretty much run through at the America.
I have one, but the heck don't really use it.
So at p D America. That did ask you for
that amazing, amazing, amazing second op ed that you and
Dr Harvey K authored. Again, folks, we need you, we
need you in this fight, all of us, all of
us to Dr Martin Luther King Jr. Want to say,
(40:50):
we all can be great because baby, we all can serve.
He put the baby in there, but I am we
all can be great because we all can serve. So
let's go ahead and get into service together. Let's do that.
And all of the links and social media handles will
be in the notes, so you can just go down
there below and look at the notes and be able
to read the articles, be able to find P. D. A,
(41:12):
be able to find Alan, and you will also be
able to find Dr Harvey. K Oh, my God. Thank
you both so very much, and I am looking forward
to continue to be on this justice journey with you.
I want everybody who's listening to keep the faith and
keep the fight. Tryry thing somebody and make it turn,
(41:43):
turn somebody turn. Yeah, changes coming. The pain is nothing
trying to shoot for the stars. If you're gonna aim
for something, embrace the love for your brother and sister.
You need these the mission brush. We need to puzzle this,
pictures painted up and frame it up for the world
(42:05):
to see. Hain't to hate it up. Enough is enough,
it's enough making changes enough in turn of a voice
of the truth to wise world. DESPI the youth to
keep their eyes on the roof. It's the end. Never
give up, keep conquering goals to the eye. Intelligent, silver,
wisdom is gold. Back to the end. Now is your time.
Stay firm, don't fold to the a or you need
is the three boons. That's what Rannie said. Now, I'm
(42:28):
gonna make sure these words from Rannie spread for all
the hair, to give it your air. She can take
him to the Promised Land. I swear world pieces what
they fear. From Queen's to Cleveland, Ohio, we're here famous
Turning Somebody you need to turn Spanning Somebody, turn up,
(42:56):
Somebody need turn up times one of our hands. Hello
Somebody is a production of I Heart Radio and the
(43:18):
Black Effect Network. For more podcast from our heart Radio,
visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows,
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Intentionally Disturbing
Join me on this podcast as I navigate the murky waters of human behavior, current events, and personal anecdotes through in-depth interviews with incredible people—all served with a generous helping of sarcasm and satire. After years as a forensic and clinical psychologist, I offer a unique interview style and a low tolerance for bullshit, quickly steering conversations toward depth and darkness. I honor the seriousness while also appreciating wit. I’m your guide through the twisted labyrinth of the human psyche, armed with dark humor and biting wit.