October 3, 2023 • 39 mins
This week we are back with a NEW episode and I’m excited to welcome bestselling author Kennedy Ryan into the HER living room! Listen in as Kennedy and I discuss favorite snacks, her favorite place to write, favorite cuss words, and Kennedy’s journey to becoming a romance author. For more info about Kennedy’s work visit: https://kennedyryanwrites.com/.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everybody, welcome back to a new episode of Her
with Amina Brown. And ooh, y'all, I had to record
right quick, okay, because if I didn't record right quick,
me and our guest today were about to just start talking,
and y'all was gonna miss all the things we already
(00:40):
talked about, stuff that ain't y'all business, but the part
that is y'all business, we would have missed out because
I was about to just enjoy talking to her. We're
gonna welcome today, Arita Award winner, top twenty five Amazon
bestseller advocate for Families living with Autism. Let's welcome author
Kennedy Ryan.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yes, yeah, I'm so glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Oh my gosh. I feel the feelings being in.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Here, feelings too.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah. Like I tell my podcast listeners, I consider this
podcast to be a living room space. You know. It's
it's the space where I like gather with my girlfriends.
That's how I imagine it, you know, And you like bring
your little broke down snacks and your girlfriend got some
little broke down snacks, and y'all be cause y'all really
just got together so y'all can chat. You know. That's
(01:31):
sort of like the room that we're here. But it
is extra special to have you here, Kennedy, because I
just feel so emotional seeing all of the amazing things
that have been happening in your career. So let me
tell y'all something before we get into the questions, because
we are here doing Her Favorite Things episode with Kennedy Ryan,
so we're gonna try to get some information, some tea,
(01:53):
some things from her about some things that are her favorites.
But before we start that, let me tell y'all something.
Kennedy and I go way.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Way back, like way way back.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Like Kennedy, Ryan know me before My hair was natural,
same same, like we had pems.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Right, we were still on that crack, hair was straight.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I'm gonna let y'all know my fashion was terrible.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Okay, I think I knew you before I had my son.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yes you did, I mean.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
You predate son.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah, that's saying something. He is twenty two, Kennedy.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Don't do me like this. Don't do like this, Honey.
We go way way back, way way back. And I'm
gonna tell y'all a memory and you probably remember this
to Kennedy, but we we we were in church together
for a long time, and we both kind of reached
a crossroads in that moment because it wasn't just I'm
gonna tell y'all something. Me and Kennedy weren't just people
(02:53):
who like went to church on a Sunday. We was
like at that place a lot of days in the week,
and we reached the crossroads where we both were just
at a place where life was shifting and we had
an opportunity to think about what do we really want
to be doing? You know, what do we really want
to be spending our time doing? And I remember being
at your house and you took out two chapters of
(03:16):
something that you had been writing, and you were like,
read this, this is what I think I want to
be doing. And those of you who have read Kennedy
Ryan's work, y'all know the vibes of what's about to happen.
Like I started the first page and then like it
just blew through the two chapters. Sitting at her house
and already knowing you, Kennedy, you already know about you.
(03:40):
Anyone that's met you knows you're a wonderful communicator, knows
you have this very warm personality. You know, So it's
not like I'm not expecting this writing to be good
just having known you. But y'all, it was great, Like
it was great? What was there? Like I was actually
upset about it a little bit, like, how but how
I only have two chapters? What happened to them? They
(04:03):
be together? They broke up? Like what happened to them?
And you were looking exactly and you were looking at
a few of us that evening like this is what
I want to do. I want to write fiction. I
want to write novels. This is my thing. And then
all of life happened, and by the time I reconnected
(04:25):
with you, I was like, that girl, none did it?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
That girl?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
What all the things that you've done, like seeing your
spoken word and your poetry all over the place and
your voice so big in so many spaces, like it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
It is amazing.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Like I really, you know, shout out to black women
who watch the color purple, but I really be having
like a Sophia in the store with Seli moment every
time your Instagram posts come up on my feet like
I really want to be like that day in this
tut and I'm like, I mean, no, don't do that.
On Kennedy's professional page, do not get involved in rocking
(05:04):
motions and crying on her page. So I'm just so
excited for you and so excited now that there are
so many books of yours out in the world and
other projects to come connected to these books. So I'm
saying that to y'all this show time to be going
to go ahead and body these books. If you haven't,
I don't know you're behind the times. Get it together, Okay,
(05:27):
So let me ask you about this, Kennedy. When you
gather with friends, if you are assigned to bring a
snack to the gathering, what's your snack? What's the thing
that you are typically walking in the door. Are you
a person who's like, herein, I must make a snack
at my home and bring you a homemade snack. Are
(05:48):
you a friend who's like, you know, I won't go
and bring no homemade snacks. Here's a snack outam brought
you from this door? Be happy with it? What are
the snack vibes.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
If I am? If I'm making it myself? First of all,
I don't cook very much at all. I resist domesticity
at every turn. It's not my ministry at all. Like
I don't cook very much at all. So, if I'm
making it myself, I might do like, you.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Know, how you can do the spinach dip with like
chips or something like that, that would be it.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
But if I was bringing something that was pre.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Prepared, I love a good like charcuterie board with like
you know, good cheeses and some fruit and nuts and
things like that, a jam.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
That is the kind of snack. That's the snack vibe
I enjoy.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
If I'm not personally responsible for it, I'm not great
at charcuterie boards, but that would be my snack vibe.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
I do feel like I have a lot of good
intentions related to charcuterie. I have a lot of good intentions.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
And I have a lot of pinterest.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I'm always pinning things and saving things, like one day,
I too will make such a picturesque charcuterie boar and
then I end up bringing like Dorito's.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
It's like, Okay, that was the thought that I had.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Yeah, I appreciate what you said about pre prepared, because
I feel like that's my best case scenario. If I'm
walking into my friend's house with CHARKOUDI is like, y'all
chefs so and so. Yeah, be thankful they did this
because otherwise everything's ugly. It's like, I just I'm not
as visually prepared to do this type of thing as
I as I want to be. When I am on
(07:40):
Pinterest looking like, oh look how they made ham and
they turned it into roses, that's not gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
My gosh.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I know.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
I looked at my TikTok the other day, and you
have like the collection. I had literally three hundred recipes
saved and never never have I made one of them.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Never. And same with Instagram, I mean, and my fvip, my.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Feed are flooded with them because I saved them all
the time. So all the algorithms think I'm a domestic
goddess when actually I'm the opposite.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
I'm just a saver and a pinner. I don't do anything.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
A domestic pinner is really where the life is, because
that means there's nothing domestic you have to do. You're
just looking at domestic things like, oh, I bet that's sae.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Someone's doing that. I aspire to that esthetic.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
You know, that's about as far as it goes.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
I love that. This is a great smack. I thank
you for this, Okay, I want to ask about your
favorite place to write. But before I get to that,
I want to see if you can catch us up
me here and the listeners. What happens going from that
moment where you are like, it's an author. I want
to be Like I think you knew you were a
(08:52):
writer before that moment, but the moment that you were like, yeah, no,
this is me professionally. I want to be an author.
I want to write books. What was that moment where
you then crossed over from that threshold to say this
is the thing I'm going to do. And now, when
you look at where your career is as a writer,
(09:13):
give us some of like the landmark moments that you
feel really helped you get into the life that you
are in now.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Yeah, it's really a series of them.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
You know, when I look back at my life eve
when we first.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Met, there's no way that I could have projected, you know,
the things that are happening for me now, it's like
it's like a day dream. You know some of the
things that are happening now. I have to pinch myself.
Like you said, I always knew I was a writer.
I started writing, I knew my degree was going to
(09:49):
I knew I was going to journalism school. Like I
started writing for a city newspaper when I was seventeen,
you know, a senior in high school. So and then
I wrote for nonprofits and churches, philanthropic or organizations. And then,
you know, my son was diagnosed with autism, and I
started writing a lot around autism advocacy, like chicken Soup
for the Soul and Mom Magazine, and you know, a lot.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
It was like my whole life. And then of course
I started a foundation for families who have children with.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Autism, so a lot of my writing just shifted to
special needs parenting special needs families and advocating and voicing
for our community. So that means I was a special
needs mom, I was running a foundation. All of my
writing was around special needs and that was a privilege,
(10:36):
you know.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
But it also I came to a point where I
was like, I.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Need something that's just for myself, you know, And I
remembered that I love to read romance. Like when I
was growing up, I loved to read romance. So you
have to remember my mom was a preacher, and so
she was she did not want me to read romance. No no, no, no,
no no.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
No, no, no, no no. We fought over it.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
I smuggled romance novels into our house. I hid them
under mattresses. I stuffed them in my closet. I had
three hundred Romance novels in my closet from eighth grade
to twelfth grade.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Then my mom knew nothing about I put a chart
over them. You know, I hit them.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
I hit them from her because she she was like,
you can't bring you can't bring that in my house.
You know.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
So I had.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Always loved reading romance, and then you know, when you
get to college, you start reading the serious books. You know,
it's like, oh no, no, it's time for me to
read the serious books.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
And I did that.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
And then in my thirties is when you know, I
was life was heavy. You know, there was a lot
that I was managing and navigating as a mom, as
a wife, as a woman, and I needed an escape.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
And that's when I started reading Romance again. And I
was reading Romance.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
And it was such an escape for me, and reading
fiction which I hadn't even been reading fiction.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
And everything I read.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Was like you know, nonfiction, self help, autism, which has
been amazing. You know, all of that has been amazing
just guiding my family on our journey with autism.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
But I wanted something that was just for me.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
And after reading like returned into reading Romance, I was like,
what if I wrote it like.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I'm a writer, I am a writer, I'm a trained writer.
I'm pretty good at it. What you know, what if
I started doing this for maybe a living?
Speaker 3 (12:34):
And for me, it was kind of an unusual journey
because a lot of times when people say, well, I'm
going to write a novel, there's all these you know,
rejection letters, and it's just a whole process of getting published.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
And things went pretty quickly for me, Like.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
I wrote, it's so interesting because the book that's so
big right now is titled Before I Let Go, which
has been you know, option for television, is going to
be on Peak, which is freaking amazing. And that's actually
the first book I ever wrote, fifteen years ago, and
I never planned to publish it.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
So I don't even know if that's the one that
you read.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
I don't think it was, because the only people who
had ever read that book were my husband and my
sister and my cousin, and that was it.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
And then I just like shoved it under the bed
and forgot about it and.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Then returned and wrote something different that was kind of
just to see if I could do it, and I
thought it was no good, So I didn't return to
that from fifteen years ago when my husband was.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Like, what about that divorce book?
Speaker 3 (13:37):
And I pulled it back out, So thank god for
my husband to say that. But that other book that
ended up being my first book, that was published now
ten years ago, which is ridiculous. I can't even wrap
my head around that. I joined a writer's group. You know,
I knew that I was a professional writer, like by profession,
(13:57):
I was a writer, but I did not assume that
just because I knew how to write that I knew
how to write.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Fiction, commercial fiction, that I understood that industry. It's a
very different thing.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
And I started going to a writer's group in Atlanta,
and that they really helped me. Like surrounding yourself with
like minded people, surrounding yourself with people who have similar
goals and who you can hold each other accountable and
encourage each other.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
That was so vital for me.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
They were mostly women, lots of them black women, lots
of them were self publishing, and I wasn't sure if
I was going to self publish or traditionally publish, and
traditional publishing.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Was kind of hard to break into.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
But we would have these conferences and we would invite
agents and editors down from New York because at the
time you had to be coming from New York.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Things are much more remote and looser now. But they
would come down from New.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
York and everybody was like, this book that you've written,
just pitch it for practice.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
And I never pitched before.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
And that's when you.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Basically sit down with an agent or editor and you
just tell them about your book for like ten minutes,
and they said they'll either ask for they'll just say
thank you and you're done, or they'll ask for a partial.
But if they're really interested, they'll ask for a full,
which means I'm so interested.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
I want the whole book. I want to read the
whole book. And they were like, don't count on that.
This is just practice.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
And so I sat down with I had I booked
one editor and one agent just for practice, and the
editor I sat down with, I pitched the book to
her and she said, I want the full and I
was like, you want what.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
You want the we want the what.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
I mean, I was like, they said, this probably wouldn't happen.
She was like, oh, I want the full. And then
I had another meeting with an agent and she goes,
I want the full and I was like, wait, it's
not is that what they were like this?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
So just because they asked for.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
The full doesn't mean they want to publish it within
that you send them the full manuscript like after that
and they either get back to you or.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
They don't or it takes a long time.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Within a month, I had heard back from the agent
and the editor. The agent wanted to represent me, and
the editor wanted.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
To buy the book.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
And so I was like, wait a minute, this is
not how it's like.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
You're everybody talked about how you go through like fifty
sixty rejection letters and you know, and that's what I
was prepared for. I was not prepared for this acceleration
that happened. And from there I published four books traditionally,
and then I started self publishing.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
And honestly, that's how I really built my career was
through self publishing. I love the creative control, the editorial control,
the promotional control that comes with creating your own work
and controlling and selling your own work. And then about
two years ago is when I returned to traditional publishing
(17:09):
with the book that's.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Out now before I let go. So wow, you know,
that's my journey, like in a nutshell.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Oh my gosh, what a full circle thing, because I
think there are so many of us as writers that
write the thing that were like no, not that one,
and in your career for that to have returned back
to you like yes, that one. I mean even I
think Stephen King has that type of story about the
Shining where you threw the Shining away and it was
his wife that was like, maybe we don't throw this
(17:37):
book away.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
No, I I had not even thought about it.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
And when I decided to had I was self publishing
and I had an agent and the traditional publishers. It's
so interesting because in the beginning of my career, I'm
chasing all these publishers, and then I got to a
point in my career where they were coming to us
and saying, we want to publish Kennedy, you know, And
I was like, I'm good over here, Like I like
(18:01):
self publishing, but it in the I told her it
would have to be the right situation. It would have
to be the right partner because at this point, if
you've ever self published or run your own business, you
don't want to.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Work for somebody else, Like you don't want somebody to
tell you what to do. You enjoy that autonomy.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
You enjoy that that you know that control, honestly, and
so I was at that place, but I found an
incredible partner. And I say partner because my publisher they
respect that I've built my own brand and they're not
asking me to change that. They're like, you've built your brand,
we want that brand.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
And I'm I'm, you know.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Really lucky that that's the case. But my agent was like,
so what are you going to write? And I had
no idea.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
What are you going to pitch? No idea. I was
just a blank and my that's when my husband was like,
what about that divorce book? And literally I was like, babe,
you know, like uh uh no, baby, haint no good.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
He was like, it was good. Go back and read it.
And I did have to restructure it.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
It was written in third person.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
I had to write it in first person, change the names, like,
there's so much that's different about it, but the.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Core of it was there, you know, and.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Yeah, so he I have to always give him props
for that because it wouldn't have happened without him.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Yeah, for sure. Oh I love that story. Do you
have a favorite place to write? Are you a writer
that can write in your home? Are you a writer
that has to leave home in order to write? What
is that part of your routine?
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Like I need supreme focus, you know, And if my
husband is watching television and my son is screaming for
me to like fix some some food or ask him
for help.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I'm not going to be able to write.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Like, I have a writing coach, And the way she
describes it is, let's say you're on a train, and
she was like, you make these stops. Some people can
just pick up from that stop and start writing again.
She was like, the way your brain is made, when
you stop, you have to go all the way back
to the station. And so she's like, you have to
create a space where you don't have to stop, because
(20:12):
every time you stop, you have to start over. And
so I can write at home if no one's here
or if people are sleep, Like I used to write
a lot at night after my son and my husband
went to sleep and it was just completely quiet. So
I can write here if that's the case. You know,
lately I have been this sounds crazy. I like to
(20:35):
write in bed, but again, I know, I know, I
like to write in bed, but if they're home and
it's not peaceful, I can't write in bed. This is
gonna sound extreme. I go to hotels to write.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Yo.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Yeah, I go away for maybe three days or you know,
like if I'm under deadline, I'll go away for it.
I would go away for three days and write thirty
thousand words in three days.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
And if I'm home, it takes me three weeks to
get there, you know. Like that's my.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Favorite thing now is to go to an airbnb or
to go to a hotel and just lock away. I
barely shower, you know, I order food.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I'm serious. I'm serious. I'm just like, I'm here to.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Work and I hit a rhythm and I have written
the biggest chunks of my novels at.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
A time in hotel rooms.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
You know.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
It's like pedal to the metal.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
So and the ability to just be focused on that.
I think life and especially home, it's like, you know,
we love our homes, but also our homes remind us
of like stuff that could be cleaned up, and yeah,
things we forgot to do. And somebody walk in and
start talking and I want to talk too, you know,
like there's all those distractions at home too.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, And so I need to pull away
from that. And my husband is so amazing because he
holds down the fort when i'm He travels a lot too.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
But we do that for each other, you know, I
think we he is.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
To say he is my biggest cheerleader is such an understatement,
Like it's such an understatement he is. I'm the one
who's like, oh gosh, I don't know if I need
to do that. He's like, no, Let's get somebody to
clean the house. Let's get somebody to cook the food.
Let's get somebody to do all these things.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
You just right, you know, love it.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
And it's I don't take it for granted, you know,
And he's like, no, you go away to the hotel,
you go.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
You know it.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
To have a partner who believes in you that way.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
And who supports you support each other that way is
so invaluable, so invaluable.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Oh, I love that because you know, being in a
relationship with a writer, you know it'd be hard sometimes
and so.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
No, it really it really, it really is.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
I don't think people recognize how hard it is sometimes
to be involved with creatives, you know, to be in
relationships with creatives, because my husband can always be like,
you're not with me. Like he's like, there's a look
you get in your eye where you're kind of like
in your head and you're thinking about your story. And
he's like, the closer you get to your deadline, the
(23:13):
less of you we have, you know, and he's like,
I'm used to that pattern. Now is I know we're
not going to have very much of you for weeks
at a time, and so he gets that.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Now, bless bless Okay, because I feel like my husband
and I, both of us being creatives, I feel like
if I could overgeneralize, like every artist is either like
the tormented artist or the opus artist, and I'm the
tormented artist. Like I finished my first book draft and
like send it into the editor and my husband's like,
we need to go celebrate, and I'm like that's me
(23:50):
me right away he was like, okay.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Oh yeah, the morning.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
You know, it's a little like when you're so consumed
with something, it gives you purpose, you know, And after
I finish a book.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I kind of feel like I'm floundering, like I have
to reorient.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
It's like I'm re entering the world and I have
to find my purpose again, you know, because for so
long that book is everything, and everything kind of takes
a back seat to it. And then when it's gone,
you just I wake up and I'm like what do
I do? Like?
Speaker 2 (24:23):
What are No? I'm like, what are what do I do?
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Exactly that?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah? And my son's like I'm over here.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
My husband like I'm like, okay, Okay, now I remember
I'm a mom, I'm a wife, this person, I'm a friend,
I'm a sister.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
I can do all these other things, you know.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
I love that. Yeah. I feel like my husband's the
opus artist. Like everything he makes, he comes downstairs and
he's like, this is the best thing I've ever made.
This music today that I've made is the best music
that I've ever made. The next day he'd be like,
today I have made the best thing, and I'm like, okay.
So those two artists live in the same house is
a wild time because I'm like crying because I'm like,
what if the poem won't be as good as the
(24:59):
last one? And He's like, it's always amazing. This was amazing.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
But that's me too.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
I'm always like, gosh, you know, this one's not good
or you know, I think that's I don't know. For me,
it's always you never get rid of that like kernel
of is it good enough? Or the self doubt and
then just the standard you hold yourself to, you know,
because I can't stand mediocrity, you know, I can't. I
can't stand when something is fine.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
You know.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
I'm just like, Okay, it's fine, even it's good. I'm
like it's good, it's cute, it's you know, I want
everything to feel fantastic.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
And that's a high barb that set for yourself.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Yeah, for sure, it's not realistic. Right, So right, bless
our hearts. Okay, now talk to me about the genre
of romance. I am new to the genre, to the
genre as a reader, so just within the last maybe
three years. So shout out to my assistant and friend Lee,
who like put me on because I was like, listen,
things in life are going kind of wild right now.
(26:06):
I really can't be here reading doomsday books, Like I really,
this is not this is nice. She was like, you
need to start reading romance because at least you have
a happily ever after, you know.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Joy. Yeah, well, you know, it's so funny because I
didn't even I think I reached out to you. I
messaged you one time because I saw you interviewed one
of my great one of my closest friends in the
gen Rodriana Herrera, and I.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Was like, you interviewed romance.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
No, you couldn't even reached out to me.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
To me and we've known each other, you were like.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Okay, o god, and let me tell y'all some let
me tell y'all something you know, and put this in
the list of things COVID ruined because the plan was
that her with Amina Brown in twenty twenty was going
to become alive record. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
So originally Kennedy was like, I had a very small
list of people that we were like gonna invite to
do this live recording with them.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
In Atlanta at the time.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Right, we were like we had like put our little
plans together. COVID came and said no, thank you. So
then I was I was kind of holding the interview.
Kennedy like okay, okay, eventually things gonna open up. Oh no,
it's not okay, next year is gonna nope. So I
was like, you know what, We're just gonna do this
now and then we can do it live again. We'll
figure this out. But yes, did she cuss me out
(27:30):
in my DMS? Yes, I definitely reached out to me, like,
if I see one more romance author on your.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Podcast, that ain't me.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I've been here all these years. What you doing? What
is your favorite thing about writing romance? Because as an author,
as a writer, you had a lot of genres, you know,
have you had a lot of genres you already had
experienced writing approaching even fiction, approaching the form of the novel,
You had a lot of different ways you could have
gone What was it about writing romance that you were like, Oh,
(28:02):
I love this, this is what I want to do.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
You know, for me, like, I love It's exactly what
you touched on, which is that it's a it's guaranteed joy.
And a lot of people will ask is what you
do even romance? And I think the reason people have
asked that about my books a lot is because my
books tend to be heavy, you know, like they're dealing
(28:25):
with things like domestic abuse, like and I'm a partner abuse,
they're dealing with things like missing and murdered Indigenous women,
like they're dealing with these really hefty kind of topics.
And a lot of people think of romance as pure escapism,
and that's not my philosophy for romance. My philosophy for
romance is not escapism. I see romance as a safe
(28:48):
landscape to.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Have difficult conversations.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
And the reason it's safe is because I know it's
going to be okay in the end, you know, like
we can have these difficult conversations, we can explore even
traumatic events and then the path of healing, Like we
can talk about all of that in the context of
romance because I know it's.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Going to be okay, and because we have guaranteed joy.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
So that's how I and that is my favorite thing
about romance is that we have guaranteed joy.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
We know it's gonna be okay. And especially writing about
black and brown women, which is what I primarily do,
it also says you are worthy to be loved.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Yeah, you know, like there.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Are so many there are too few spaces.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Where black and brown women are loved unconditionally and loved,
you know, in the way that we are supposed to
be affirmed in the way that we're supposed to be told,
that we're beautiful and attractive in the way that we're
supposed to be There's so much in culture that is,
whether it's implicitly or subliminally, feeding to us, that we're
not worthy of those things, and that we are the
(29:48):
lowest on the totem pole of being attractive, you know,
the lowest on the that hierarchy.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
That we're not beautiful. You know, there's so many things
that say that to us.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
And I in Romance, you're gonna see what I'm writing,
for the most part is black and brown women. You're
gonna see them loved unconditionally and wildly and respected and
esteemed and affirmed and in the end have joy. And
anytime I can present that in cultural spaces is incredibly
(30:19):
rewarding for me for black women to especially for black
and brown women to see themselves and say, oh, my gosh,
this is you know, seeing a woman being loved this way,
being respected this way, being treated this way.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah, like, that's that's how it could be.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
And I know a lot of people are like, oh,
romance gives unrealistic expectations, but that a man would respect you,
when someone would believe in your agency, that someone would
center your pleasure, that someone would want the best for you.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
What's unrealistic about that? You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (30:56):
So not that every romance novel is going to be realistic,
but I mean I that So that's what I love,
you know, That's what I love about the genre.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Yeah, oh I love that. Okay, if you'll share with us,
do you have a favorite cuss word that you like
to use.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I think it's probably. I think it's fun.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Yeah, yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
I think it is. And I hope my mom never
listens to this, but I really think it is. And
I when I but when.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
You write it, it's so powerful, Like there's so many
things rolled up in that, and it's like it can
be used in so many different ways.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
But it's never passive, you know.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
It always kind of just like explodes into any conversation.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
So I think that's probably it.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Fuck really does the word like it just does a
lot of words.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
There's a lot of it cares a lot of ways.
It really does.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Like it's almost like the cuss word equivalent of girl,
you know, like especially between black women, there's like a
way you could be like girl girl, Like it could
just mean somebody. Yeah, like I feel like fuck has
that it does that work. It's like it could be
like it could be like I'm disappointed. It could be
like I'm mad at you. It could be like you
fine as hell, all in the same words.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Like it's multitudes, multitudes.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
I love that. I'm in agreement. I'm in agreement with that.
Do you have a favorite black girl hairstyle? And I
know this might change in different seasons of life, So
if you have one generally or if in this season
you have a favorite, like, yeah, this is my favorite
black hairstyle.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Braids, you know, Like right now I have like a
few braids, and then I have like extensions, I have
like a combination, but it's protective. Like for me, it's
almost always protective. And part of that is because when
I'm writing, I tend to like mess in my hair
a lot and it'll fall out. I have ball spots like,
so it's always for me protective. But right now, I
(32:52):
love like a good like Zoe Kravitz braid.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
That's where I am right now, you know, the braid
with the hair and the kind of like nessy bohemian field.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
That's like my favorite thing right now because I don't
have to do much to it and I like the
way it looks.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
I celebrate that. I'm just newly back to trying box braids,
Like I had had box braids as a child, not
me telling my age, Kennedy, but I had box braids
back when they had to use the lighter to see
on the ends.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
The Burtons Burton.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
I went back to get some box braids last year
for like the first time in twenty years. First of all,
the girl who's braiding my hair looks like she's in
high school. I know she's a grown adult, but it's
like I just look at her, like, are you sure
you should be here? Like did you finish class? I
don't know. So then when she brought the hot water,
killiar here? Okay, like did y'allot with you permission? She
brought the hot water and I was like, what you
(33:47):
getting ready to do with that? She was like, oh,
this is how you steal the braids. I said no,
She said, you don't use the lighter.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Literally, no, ma'am, no, ma'am.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Yeah, definitely was not man. She definitely also hit me
with the oh yeah, my mom used to do that,
and I was like, yeah, I feel like you're equating
me to being the age of your mother. And I
don't know, right, You're like, do you want to? Like right, like,
what we doing here? What'll be doing here? And did
you finish your homework before you came in here? Braik
my hair? Girl get out. So once she braided my hair,
(34:21):
I was like, oh my god, what's brave man? This
is amazing. This is a time I just woke up
and my hair is just done. This is great for me.
This is great for me. Yes, so I celebrate that.
We love a protective style. Okay, I want to ask
you one question. In closing, you talked about joy. I
want to hear some of your favorite things right now
(34:41):
that are bringing you joy.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Let me see, uh, audio books.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
I'm such a I'm such a nerd. Like I've always
been a voracious reader.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
So books in some form or fashion is always going
to be at the top of my list. So audio books,
I would say ninety eight percent of what I read
is through audio now, and it's it's just the best.
I would say, it's gone off now. Some of the
good television, like we're in an age of some of
(35:18):
the best television ever, like Succession just ended and ted
Lasso just ended, and you know, I'm watching The Bear
and I'm just like, gosh, we have so much great
television right now, I'm watching The Lion this. You know.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
It's just like there's so much good that's on television. Warrior.
So those are just some of the shows that are
bringing me joy right now. Barata cheese come.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
So you go full circle to the charcoon board with
like grilled peaches and a good cracker. You know, it's
just it's it's it's been I've been and I've been
trying to recreate it and I'm like it never tastes right,
so I would say that. And then just my family.
You know, I've been traveling a lot. I just got
back from an eleven day trip where I was away
(36:06):
from home for.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Eleven days, and just being with my family. Spending time
with my family.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
It means more, you know now, because I'm so so busy.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
So yeah, oh I love that, especially the cheese shout
out because it does and does bring a lot of joy.
And also the peaches, you know, I know.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
You know they had I was like, g real peaches
and cheese, and it just set it off right off
is everything.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
The girls are out here ready for pumpkin spice time,
and I'm like, it means we're saying goodbye to peach season, though,
Like let's let's have a talk about that. Okay. Where
can the people follow you get more information about what
you're working on? Where can they buy five copies of
your book? I always just tell my listeners go ahead
and buy five copies. Anyone who's featured here, pick a
(36:57):
book and buy five copies of it. That you have
books to give away, people come to your home, you know,
you can be like, here's a book for you, not
my book, but an extra book. So by five copies.
Where can the people follow you and find information about
these things?
Speaker 3 (37:15):
I'm Kennedy Ryan on Instagram, on the form the platform
formerly known as Twitter.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
You know, now it's like x, I'm like, what's that?
Speaker 2 (37:26):
On TikTok uh? You know, I'm Facebook.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
I'm in all those places and my link you know,
you have your bio, like your link tree. Everything is there,
like all my books and announcements and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
So it's like a plethora of information that's.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
There and they can find my books, you know, everywhere
Barnes and Noble, Target, Walmart, you know, online.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
All the places.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
So and if people are looking for a place to start,
I recommend starting with before I let go.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
That's before it comes to screen.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Okay, you got to be you see it. You gotta
go ahead and do both things so you can read it.
You will be ready when it comes out on screen.
I love that for you, Kennedy, Thank you so much
just for sharing your journey here. I know that there
are a lot of listeners who maybe at that crossroads
where you were at that and you.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Know, I mean for people who are at that crossloads.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
You know, you mentioned that we both kind of came
to that place where we wanted to do something different.
I mean I didn't get my first book deal until
I was forty years old, like you know, so it's
never too late to pivot. It's never too late to
dig into a dream that you thought was out of reach.
You know, I was looking at I remember looking at
(38:41):
Tony Morrison talking about how she didn't publish her first
book or get her first book deal, and she was
thirty nine, and I used to think, wow, she didn't
get her first book deal. Was I was thirty nine
and then I'm like, oh wait, now forty your first
book deal and you never saw it coming. So it's
just it's never too late to pivot.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Yeah. Oh I love that. Thank you Kennedy so much.
This was great.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
It will be.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Her with Amina Brown is produced by Matt Owen for
Solograffeiti Productions as a part of the Seneca Women Podcast
Network in partnership with iHeartRadio. Thanks for listening and don't
forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast.
Hey, everybody, welcome back to a new episode of Her
with Amina Brown. And ooh, y'all, I had to record
right quick, okay, because if I didn't record right quick,
me and our guest today were about to just start talking,
and y'all was gonna miss all the things we already
(00:40):
talked about, stuff that ain't y'all business, but the part
that is y'all business, we would have missed out because
I was about to just enjoy talking to her. We're
gonna welcome today, Arita Award winner, top twenty five Amazon
bestseller advocate for Families living with Autism. Let's welcome author
Kennedy Ryan.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yes, yeah, I'm so glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Oh my gosh. I feel the feelings being in.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Here, feelings too.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah. Like I tell my podcast listeners, I consider this
podcast to be a living room space. You know. It's
it's the space where I like gather with my girlfriends.
That's how I imagine it, you know, And you like bring
your little broke down snacks and your girlfriend got some
little broke down snacks, and y'all be cause y'all really
just got together so y'all can chat. You know. That's
(01:31):
sort of like the room that we're here. But it
is extra special to have you here, Kennedy, because I
just feel so emotional seeing all of the amazing things
that have been happening in your career. So let me
tell y'all something before we get into the questions, because
we are here doing Her Favorite Things episode with Kennedy Ryan,
so we're gonna try to get some information, some tea,
(01:53):
some things from her about some things that are her favorites.
But before we start that, let me tell y'all something.
Kennedy and I go way.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Way back, like way way back.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Like Kennedy, Ryan know me before My hair was natural,
same same, like we had pems.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Right, we were still on that crack, hair was straight.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I'm gonna let y'all know my fashion was terrible.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Okay, I think I knew you before I had my son.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yes you did, I mean.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
You predate son.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah, that's saying something. He is twenty two, Kennedy.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Don't do me like this. Don't do like this, Honey.
We go way way back, way way back. And I'm
gonna tell y'all a memory and you probably remember this
to Kennedy, but we we we were in church together
for a long time, and we both kind of reached
a crossroads in that moment because it wasn't just I'm
gonna tell y'all something. Me and Kennedy weren't just people
(02:53):
who like went to church on a Sunday. We was
like at that place a lot of days in the week,
and we reached the crossroads where we both were just
at a place where life was shifting and we had
an opportunity to think about what do we really want
to be doing? You know, what do we really want
to be spending our time doing? And I remember being
at your house and you took out two chapters of
(03:16):
something that you had been writing, and you were like,
read this, this is what I think I want to
be doing. And those of you who have read Kennedy
Ryan's work, y'all know the vibes of what's about to happen.
Like I started the first page and then like it
just blew through the two chapters. Sitting at her house
and already knowing you, Kennedy, you already know about you.
(03:40):
Anyone that's met you knows you're a wonderful communicator, knows
you have this very warm personality. You know, So it's
not like I'm not expecting this writing to be good
just having known you. But y'all, it was great, Like
it was great? What was there? Like I was actually
upset about it a little bit, like, how but how
I only have two chapters? What happened to them? They
(04:03):
be together? They broke up? Like what happened to them?
And you were looking exactly and you were looking at
a few of us that evening like this is what
I want to do. I want to write fiction. I
want to write novels. This is my thing. And then
all of life happened, and by the time I reconnected
(04:25):
with you, I was like, that girl, none did it?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
That girl?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
What all the things that you've done, like seeing your
spoken word and your poetry all over the place and
your voice so big in so many spaces, like it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
It is amazing.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Like I really, you know, shout out to black women
who watch the color purple, but I really be having
like a Sophia in the store with Seli moment every
time your Instagram posts come up on my feet like
I really want to be like that day in this
tut and I'm like, I mean, no, don't do that.
On Kennedy's professional page, do not get involved in rocking
(05:04):
motions and crying on her page. So I'm just so
excited for you and so excited now that there are
so many books of yours out in the world and
other projects to come connected to these books. So I'm
saying that to y'all this show time to be going
to go ahead and body these books. If you haven't,
I don't know you're behind the times. Get it together, Okay,
(05:27):
So let me ask you about this, Kennedy. When you
gather with friends, if you are assigned to bring a
snack to the gathering, what's your snack? What's the thing
that you are typically walking in the door. Are you
a person who's like, herein, I must make a snack
at my home and bring you a homemade snack. Are
(05:48):
you a friend who's like, you know, I won't go
and bring no homemade snacks. Here's a snack outam brought
you from this door? Be happy with it? What are
the snack vibes.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
If I am? If I'm making it myself? First of all,
I don't cook very much at all. I resist domesticity
at every turn. It's not my ministry at all. Like
I don't cook very much at all. So, if I'm
making it myself, I might do like, you.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Know, how you can do the spinach dip with like
chips or something like that, that would be it.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
But if I was bringing something that was pre.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Prepared, I love a good like charcuterie board with like
you know, good cheeses and some fruit and nuts and
things like that, a jam.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
That is the kind of snack. That's the snack vibe
I enjoy.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
If I'm not personally responsible for it, I'm not great
at charcuterie boards, but that would be my snack vibe.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
I do feel like I have a lot of good
intentions related to charcuterie. I have a lot of good intentions.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
And I have a lot of pinterest.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I'm always pinning things and saving things, like one day,
I too will make such a picturesque charcuterie boar and
then I end up bringing like Dorito's.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
It's like, Okay, that was the thought that I had.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Yeah, I appreciate what you said about pre prepared, because
I feel like that's my best case scenario. If I'm
walking into my friend's house with CHARKOUDI is like, y'all
chefs so and so. Yeah, be thankful they did this
because otherwise everything's ugly. It's like, I just I'm not
as visually prepared to do this type of thing as
I as I want to be. When I am on
(07:40):
Pinterest looking like, oh look how they made ham and
they turned it into roses, that's not gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
My gosh.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I know.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
I looked at my TikTok the other day, and you
have like the collection. I had literally three hundred recipes
saved and never never have I made one of them.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Never. And same with Instagram, I mean, and my fvip, my.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Feed are flooded with them because I saved them all
the time. So all the algorithms think I'm a domestic
goddess when actually I'm the opposite.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
I'm just a saver and a pinner. I don't do anything.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
A domestic pinner is really where the life is, because
that means there's nothing domestic you have to do. You're
just looking at domestic things like, oh, I bet that's sae.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Someone's doing that. I aspire to that esthetic.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
You know, that's about as far as it goes.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
I love that. This is a great smack. I thank
you for this, Okay, I want to ask about your
favorite place to write. But before I get to that,
I want to see if you can catch us up
me here and the listeners. What happens going from that
moment where you are like, it's an author. I want
to be Like I think you knew you were a
(08:52):
writer before that moment, but the moment that you were like, yeah, no,
this is me professionally. I want to be an author.
I want to write books. What was that moment where
you then crossed over from that threshold to say this
is the thing I'm going to do. And now, when
you look at where your career is as a writer,
(09:13):
give us some of like the landmark moments that you
feel really helped you get into the life that you
are in now.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Yeah, it's really a series of them.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
You know, when I look back at my life eve
when we first.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Met, there's no way that I could have projected, you know,
the things that are happening for me now, it's like
it's like a day dream. You know some of the
things that are happening now. I have to pinch myself.
Like you said, I always knew I was a writer.
I started writing, I knew my degree was going to
(09:49):
I knew I was going to journalism school. Like I
started writing for a city newspaper when I was seventeen,
you know, a senior in high school. So and then
I wrote for nonprofits and churches, philanthropic or organizations. And then,
you know, my son was diagnosed with autism, and I
started writing a lot around autism advocacy, like chicken Soup
for the Soul and Mom Magazine, and you know, a lot.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
It was like my whole life. And then of course
I started a foundation for families who have children with.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Autism, so a lot of my writing just shifted to
special needs parenting special needs families and advocating and voicing
for our community. So that means I was a special
needs mom, I was running a foundation. All of my
writing was around special needs and that was a privilege,
(10:36):
you know.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
But it also I came to a point where I
was like, I.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Need something that's just for myself, you know, And I
remembered that I love to read romance. Like when I
was growing up, I loved to read romance. So you
have to remember my mom was a preacher, and so
she was she did not want me to read romance. No no, no, no,
no no.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
No, no, no, no no. We fought over it.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
I smuggled romance novels into our house. I hid them
under mattresses. I stuffed them in my closet. I had
three hundred Romance novels in my closet from eighth grade
to twelfth grade.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Then my mom knew nothing about I put a chart
over them. You know, I hit them.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
I hit them from her because she she was like,
you can't bring you can't bring that in my house.
You know.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
So I had.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Always loved reading romance, and then you know, when you
get to college, you start reading the serious books. You know,
it's like, oh no, no, it's time for me to
read the serious books.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
And I did that.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
And then in my thirties is when you know, I
was life was heavy. You know, there was a lot
that I was managing and navigating as a mom, as
a wife, as a woman, and I needed an escape.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
And that's when I started reading Romance again. And I
was reading Romance.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
And it was such an escape for me, and reading
fiction which I hadn't even been reading fiction.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
And everything I read.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Was like you know, nonfiction, self help, autism, which has
been amazing. You know, all of that has been amazing
just guiding my family on our journey with autism.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
But I wanted something that was just for me.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
And after reading like returned into reading Romance, I was like,
what if I wrote it like.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I'm a writer, I am a writer, I'm a trained writer.
I'm pretty good at it. What you know, what if
I started doing this for maybe a living?
Speaker 3 (12:34):
And for me, it was kind of an unusual journey
because a lot of times when people say, well, I'm
going to write a novel, there's all these you know,
rejection letters, and it's just a whole process of getting published.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
And things went pretty quickly for me, Like.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
I wrote, it's so interesting because the book that's so
big right now is titled Before I Let Go, which
has been you know, option for television, is going to
be on Peak, which is freaking amazing. And that's actually
the first book I ever wrote, fifteen years ago, and
I never planned to publish it.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
So I don't even know if that's the one that
you read.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
I don't think it was, because the only people who
had ever read that book were my husband and my
sister and my cousin, and that was it.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
And then I just like shoved it under the bed
and forgot about it and.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Then returned and wrote something different that was kind of
just to see if I could do it, and I
thought it was no good, So I didn't return to
that from fifteen years ago when my husband was.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Like, what about that divorce book?
Speaker 3 (13:37):
And I pulled it back out, So thank god for
my husband to say that. But that other book that
ended up being my first book, that was published now
ten years ago, which is ridiculous. I can't even wrap
my head around that. I joined a writer's group. You know,
I knew that I was a professional writer, like by profession,
(13:57):
I was a writer, but I did not assume that
just because I knew how to write that I knew
how to write.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Fiction, commercial fiction, that I understood that industry. It's a
very different thing.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
And I started going to a writer's group in Atlanta,
and that they really helped me. Like surrounding yourself with
like minded people, surrounding yourself with people who have similar
goals and who you can hold each other accountable and
encourage each other.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
That was so vital for me.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
They were mostly women, lots of them black women, lots
of them were self publishing, and I wasn't sure if
I was going to self publish or traditionally publish, and
traditional publishing.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Was kind of hard to break into.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
But we would have these conferences and we would invite
agents and editors down from New York because at the
time you had to be coming from New York.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Things are much more remote and looser now. But they
would come down from New.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
York and everybody was like, this book that you've written,
just pitch it for practice.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
And I never pitched before.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
And that's when you.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Basically sit down with an agent or editor and you
just tell them about your book for like ten minutes,
and they said they'll either ask for they'll just say
thank you and you're done, or they'll ask for a partial.
But if they're really interested, they'll ask for a full,
which means I'm so interested.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
I want the whole book. I want to read the
whole book. And they were like, don't count on that.
This is just practice.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
And so I sat down with I had I booked
one editor and one agent just for practice, and the
editor I sat down with, I pitched the book to
her and she said, I want the full and I
was like, you want what.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
You want the we want the what.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
I mean, I was like, they said, this probably wouldn't happen.
She was like, oh, I want the full. And then
I had another meeting with an agent and she goes,
I want the full and I was like, wait, it's
not is that what they were like this?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
So just because they asked for.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
The full doesn't mean they want to publish it within
that you send them the full manuscript like after that
and they either get back to you or.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
They don't or it takes a long time.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Within a month, I had heard back from the agent
and the editor. The agent wanted to represent me, and
the editor wanted.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
To buy the book.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
And so I was like, wait a minute, this is
not how it's like.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
You're everybody talked about how you go through like fifty
sixty rejection letters and you know, and that's what I
was prepared for. I was not prepared for this acceleration
that happened. And from there I published four books traditionally,
and then I started self publishing.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
And honestly, that's how I really built my career was
through self publishing. I love the creative control, the editorial control,
the promotional control that comes with creating your own work
and controlling and selling your own work. And then about
two years ago is when I returned to traditional publishing
(17:09):
with the book that's.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Out now before I let go. So wow, you know,
that's my journey, like in a nutshell.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Oh my gosh, what a full circle thing, because I
think there are so many of us as writers that
write the thing that were like no, not that one,
and in your career for that to have returned back
to you like yes, that one. I mean even I
think Stephen King has that type of story about the
Shining where you threw the Shining away and it was
his wife that was like, maybe we don't throw this
(17:37):
book away.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
No, I I had not even thought about it.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
And when I decided to had I was self publishing
and I had an agent and the traditional publishers. It's
so interesting because in the beginning of my career, I'm
chasing all these publishers, and then I got to a
point in my career where they were coming to us
and saying, we want to publish Kennedy, you know, And
I was like, I'm good over here, Like I like
(18:01):
self publishing, but it in the I told her it
would have to be the right situation. It would have
to be the right partner because at this point, if
you've ever self published or run your own business, you
don't want to.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Work for somebody else, Like you don't want somebody to
tell you what to do. You enjoy that autonomy.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
You enjoy that that you know that control, honestly, and
so I was at that place, but I found an
incredible partner. And I say partner because my publisher they
respect that I've built my own brand and they're not
asking me to change that. They're like, you've built your brand,
we want that brand.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
And I'm I'm, you know.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Really lucky that that's the case. But my agent was like,
so what are you going to write? And I had
no idea.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
What are you going to pitch? No idea. I was
just a blank and my that's when my husband was like,
what about that divorce book? And literally I was like, babe,
you know, like uh uh no, baby, haint no good.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
He was like, it was good. Go back and read it.
And I did have to restructure it.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
It was written in third person.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
I had to write it in first person, change the names, like,
there's so much that's different about it, but the.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Core of it was there, you know, and.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Yeah, so he I have to always give him props
for that because it wouldn't have happened without him.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Yeah, for sure. Oh I love that story. Do you
have a favorite place to write? Are you a writer
that can write in your home? Are you a writer
that has to leave home in order to write? What
is that part of your routine?
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Like I need supreme focus, you know, And if my
husband is watching television and my son is screaming for
me to like fix some some food or ask him
for help.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I'm not going to be able to write.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Like, I have a writing coach, And the way she
describes it is, let's say you're on a train, and
she was like, you make these stops. Some people can
just pick up from that stop and start writing again.
She was like, the way your brain is made, when
you stop, you have to go all the way back
to the station. And so she's like, you have to
create a space where you don't have to stop, because
(20:12):
every time you stop, you have to start over. And
so I can write at home if no one's here
or if people are sleep, Like I used to write
a lot at night after my son and my husband
went to sleep and it was just completely quiet. So
I can write here if that's the case. You know,
lately I have been this sounds crazy. I like to
(20:35):
write in bed, but again, I know, I know, I
like to write in bed, but if they're home and
it's not peaceful, I can't write in bed. This is
gonna sound extreme. I go to hotels to write.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Yo.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Yeah, I go away for maybe three days or you know,
like if I'm under deadline, I'll go away for it.
I would go away for three days and write thirty
thousand words in three days.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
And if I'm home, it takes me three weeks to
get there, you know. Like that's my.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Favorite thing now is to go to an airbnb or
to go to a hotel and just lock away. I
barely shower, you know, I order food.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I'm serious. I'm serious. I'm just like, I'm here to.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Work and I hit a rhythm and I have written
the biggest chunks of my novels at.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
A time in hotel rooms.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
You know.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
It's like pedal to the metal.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
So and the ability to just be focused on that.
I think life and especially home, it's like, you know,
we love our homes, but also our homes remind us
of like stuff that could be cleaned up, and yeah,
things we forgot to do. And somebody walk in and
start talking and I want to talk too, you know,
like there's all those distractions at home too.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, And so I need to pull away
from that. And my husband is so amazing because he
holds down the fort when i'm He travels a lot too.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
But we do that for each other, you know, I
think we he is.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
To say he is my biggest cheerleader is such an understatement,
Like it's such an understatement he is. I'm the one
who's like, oh gosh, I don't know if I need
to do that. He's like, no, Let's get somebody to
clean the house. Let's get somebody to cook the food.
Let's get somebody to do all these things.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
You just right, you know, love it.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
And it's I don't take it for granted, you know,
And he's like, no, you go away to the hotel,
you go.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
You know it.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
To have a partner who believes in you that way.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
And who supports you support each other that way is
so invaluable, so invaluable.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Oh, I love that because you know, being in a
relationship with a writer, you know it'd be hard sometimes
and so.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
No, it really it really, it really is.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
I don't think people recognize how hard it is sometimes
to be involved with creatives, you know, to be in
relationships with creatives, because my husband can always be like,
you're not with me. Like he's like, there's a look
you get in your eye where you're kind of like
in your head and you're thinking about your story. And
he's like, the closer you get to your deadline, the
(23:13):
less of you we have, you know, and he's like,
I'm used to that pattern. Now is I know we're
not going to have very much of you for weeks
at a time, and so he gets that.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Now, bless bless Okay, because I feel like my husband
and I, both of us being creatives, I feel like
if I could overgeneralize, like every artist is either like
the tormented artist or the opus artist, and I'm the
tormented artist. Like I finished my first book draft and
like send it into the editor and my husband's like,
we need to go celebrate, and I'm like that's me
(23:50):
me right away he was like, okay.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Oh yeah, the morning.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
You know, it's a little like when you're so consumed
with something, it gives you purpose, you know, And after
I finish a book.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I kind of feel like I'm floundering, like I have
to reorient.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
It's like I'm re entering the world and I have
to find my purpose again, you know, because for so
long that book is everything, and everything kind of takes
a back seat to it. And then when it's gone,
you just I wake up and I'm like what do
I do? Like?
Speaker 2 (24:23):
What are No? I'm like, what are what do I do?
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Exactly that?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah? And my son's like I'm over here.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
My husband like I'm like, okay, Okay, now I remember
I'm a mom, I'm a wife, this person, I'm a friend,
I'm a sister.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
I can do all these other things, you know.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
I love that. Yeah. I feel like my husband's the
opus artist. Like everything he makes, he comes downstairs and
he's like, this is the best thing I've ever made.
This music today that I've made is the best music
that I've ever made. The next day he'd be like,
today I have made the best thing, and I'm like, okay.
So those two artists live in the same house is
a wild time because I'm like crying because I'm like,
what if the poem won't be as good as the
(24:59):
last one? And He's like, it's always amazing. This was amazing.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
But that's me too.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
I'm always like, gosh, you know, this one's not good
or you know, I think that's I don't know. For me,
it's always you never get rid of that like kernel
of is it good enough? Or the self doubt and
then just the standard you hold yourself to, you know,
because I can't stand mediocrity, you know, I can't. I
can't stand when something is fine.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
You know.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
I'm just like, Okay, it's fine, even it's good. I'm
like it's good, it's cute, it's you know, I want
everything to feel fantastic.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
And that's a high barb that set for yourself.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Yeah, for sure, it's not realistic. Right, So right, bless
our hearts. Okay, now talk to me about the genre
of romance. I am new to the genre, to the
genre as a reader, so just within the last maybe
three years. So shout out to my assistant and friend Lee,
who like put me on because I was like, listen,
things in life are going kind of wild right now.
(26:06):
I really can't be here reading doomsday books, Like I really,
this is not this is nice. She was like, you
need to start reading romance because at least you have
a happily ever after, you know.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Joy. Yeah, well, you know, it's so funny because I
didn't even I think I reached out to you. I
messaged you one time because I saw you interviewed one
of my great one of my closest friends in the
gen Rodriana Herrera, and I.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Was like, you interviewed romance.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
No, you couldn't even reached out to me.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
To me and we've known each other, you were like.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Okay, o god, and let me tell y'all some let
me tell y'all something you know, and put this in
the list of things COVID ruined because the plan was
that her with Amina Brown in twenty twenty was going
to become alive record. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
So originally Kennedy was like, I had a very small
list of people that we were like gonna invite to
do this live recording with them.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
In Atlanta at the time.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Right, we were like we had like put our little
plans together. COVID came and said no, thank you. So
then I was I was kind of holding the interview.
Kennedy like okay, okay, eventually things gonna open up. Oh no,
it's not okay, next year is gonna nope. So I
was like, you know what, We're just gonna do this
now and then we can do it live again. We'll
figure this out. But yes, did she cuss me out
(27:30):
in my DMS? Yes, I definitely reached out to me, like,
if I see one more romance author on your.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Podcast, that ain't me.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I've been here all these years. What you doing? What
is your favorite thing about writing romance? Because as an author,
as a writer, you had a lot of genres, you know,
have you had a lot of genres you already had
experienced writing approaching even fiction, approaching the form of the novel,
You had a lot of different ways you could have
gone What was it about writing romance that you were like, Oh,
(28:02):
I love this, this is what I want to do.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
You know, for me, like, I love It's exactly what
you touched on, which is that it's a it's guaranteed joy.
And a lot of people will ask is what you
do even romance? And I think the reason people have
asked that about my books a lot is because my
books tend to be heavy, you know, like they're dealing
(28:25):
with things like domestic abuse, like and I'm a partner abuse,
they're dealing with things like missing and murdered Indigenous women,
like they're dealing with these really hefty kind of topics.
And a lot of people think of romance as pure escapism,
and that's not my philosophy for romance. My philosophy for
romance is not escapism. I see romance as a safe
(28:48):
landscape to.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Have difficult conversations.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
And the reason it's safe is because I know it's
going to be okay in the end, you know, like
we can have these difficult conversations, we can explore even
traumatic events and then the path of healing, Like we
can talk about all of that in the context of
romance because I know it's.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Going to be okay, and because we have guaranteed joy.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
So that's how I and that is my favorite thing
about romance is that we have guaranteed joy.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
We know it's gonna be okay. And especially writing about
black and brown women, which is what I primarily do,
it also says you are worthy to be loved.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Yeah, you know, like there.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Are so many there are too few spaces.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Where black and brown women are loved unconditionally and loved,
you know, in the way that we are supposed to
be affirmed in the way that we're supposed to be told,
that we're beautiful and attractive in the way that we're
supposed to be There's so much in culture that is,
whether it's implicitly or subliminally, feeding to us, that we're
not worthy of those things, and that we are the
(29:48):
lowest on the totem pole of being attractive, you know,
the lowest on the that hierarchy.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
That we're not beautiful. You know, there's so many things
that say that to us.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
And I in Romance, you're gonna see what I'm writing,
for the most part is black and brown women. You're
gonna see them loved unconditionally and wildly and respected and
esteemed and affirmed and in the end have joy. And
anytime I can present that in cultural spaces is incredibly
(30:19):
rewarding for me for black women to especially for black
and brown women to see themselves and say, oh, my gosh,
this is you know, seeing a woman being loved this way,
being respected this way, being treated this way.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah, like, that's that's how it could be.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
And I know a lot of people are like, oh,
romance gives unrealistic expectations, but that a man would respect you,
when someone would believe in your agency, that someone would
center your pleasure, that someone would want the best for you.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
What's unrealistic about that? You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (30:56):
So not that every romance novel is going to be realistic,
but I mean I that So that's what I love,
you know, That's what I love about the genre.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Yeah, oh I love that. Okay, if you'll share with us,
do you have a favorite cuss word that you like
to use.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I think it's probably. I think it's fun.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Yeah, yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
I think it is. And I hope my mom never
listens to this, but I really think it is. And
I when I but when.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
You write it, it's so powerful, Like there's so many
things rolled up in that, and it's like it can
be used in so many different ways.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
But it's never passive, you know.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
It always kind of just like explodes into any conversation.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
So I think that's probably it.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Fuck really does the word like it just does a
lot of words.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
There's a lot of it cares a lot of ways.
It really does.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Like it's almost like the cuss word equivalent of girl,
you know, like especially between black women, there's like a
way you could be like girl girl, Like it could
just mean somebody. Yeah, like I feel like fuck has
that it does that work. It's like it could be
like it could be like I'm disappointed. It could be
like I'm mad at you. It could be like you
fine as hell, all in the same words.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Like it's multitudes, multitudes.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
I love that. I'm in agreement. I'm in agreement with that.
Do you have a favorite black girl hairstyle? And I
know this might change in different seasons of life, So
if you have one generally or if in this season
you have a favorite, like, yeah, this is my favorite
black hairstyle.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Braids, you know, Like right now I have like a
few braids, and then I have like extensions, I have
like a combination, but it's protective. Like for me, it's
almost always protective. And part of that is because when
I'm writing, I tend to like mess in my hair
a lot and it'll fall out. I have ball spots like,
so it's always for me protective. But right now, I
(32:52):
love like a good like Zoe Kravitz braid.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
That's where I am right now, you know, the braid
with the hair and the kind of like nessy bohemian field.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
That's like my favorite thing right now because I don't
have to do much to it and I like the
way it looks.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
I celebrate that. I'm just newly back to trying box braids,
Like I had had box braids as a child, not
me telling my age, Kennedy, but I had box braids
back when they had to use the lighter to see
on the ends.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
The Burtons Burton.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
I went back to get some box braids last year
for like the first time in twenty years. First of all,
the girl who's braiding my hair looks like she's in
high school. I know she's a grown adult, but it's
like I just look at her, like, are you sure
you should be here? Like did you finish class? I
don't know. So then when she brought the hot water,
killiar here? Okay, like did y'allot with you permission? She
brought the hot water and I was like, what you
(33:47):
getting ready to do with that? She was like, oh,
this is how you steal the braids. I said no,
She said, you don't use the lighter.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Literally, no, ma'am, no, ma'am.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Yeah, definitely was not man. She definitely also hit me
with the oh yeah, my mom used to do that,
and I was like, yeah, I feel like you're equating
me to being the age of your mother. And I
don't know, right, You're like, do you want to? Like right, like,
what we doing here? What'll be doing here? And did
you finish your homework before you came in here? Braik
my hair? Girl get out. So once she braided my hair,
(34:21):
I was like, oh my god, what's brave man? This
is amazing. This is a time I just woke up
and my hair is just done. This is great for me.
This is great for me. Yes, so I celebrate that.
We love a protective style. Okay, I want to ask
you one question. In closing, you talked about joy. I
want to hear some of your favorite things right now
(34:41):
that are bringing you joy.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Let me see, uh, audio books.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
I'm such a I'm such a nerd. Like I've always
been a voracious reader.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
So books in some form or fashion is always going
to be at the top of my list. So audio books,
I would say ninety eight percent of what I read
is through audio now, and it's it's just the best.
I would say, it's gone off now. Some of the
good television, like we're in an age of some of
(35:18):
the best television ever, like Succession just ended and ted
Lasso just ended, and you know, I'm watching The Bear
and I'm just like, gosh, we have so much great
television right now, I'm watching The Lion this. You know.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
It's just like there's so much good that's on television. Warrior.
So those are just some of the shows that are
bringing me joy right now. Barata cheese come.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
So you go full circle to the charcoon board with
like grilled peaches and a good cracker. You know, it's
just it's it's it's been I've been and I've been
trying to recreate it and I'm like it never tastes right,
so I would say that. And then just my family.
You know, I've been traveling a lot. I just got
back from an eleven day trip where I was away
(36:06):
from home for.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Eleven days, and just being with my family. Spending time
with my family.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
It means more, you know now, because I'm so so busy.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
So yeah, oh I love that, especially the cheese shout
out because it does and does bring a lot of joy.
And also the peaches, you know, I know.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
You know they had I was like, g real peaches
and cheese, and it just set it off right off
is everything.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
The girls are out here ready for pumpkin spice time,
and I'm like, it means we're saying goodbye to peach season, though,
Like let's let's have a talk about that. Okay. Where
can the people follow you get more information about what
you're working on? Where can they buy five copies of
your book? I always just tell my listeners go ahead
and buy five copies. Anyone who's featured here, pick a
(36:57):
book and buy five copies of it. That you have
books to give away, people come to your home, you know,
you can be like, here's a book for you, not
my book, but an extra book. So by five copies.
Where can the people follow you and find information about
these things?
Speaker 3 (37:15):
I'm Kennedy Ryan on Instagram, on the form the platform
formerly known as Twitter.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
You know, now it's like x, I'm like, what's that?
Speaker 2 (37:26):
On TikTok uh? You know, I'm Facebook.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
I'm in all those places and my link you know,
you have your bio, like your link tree. Everything is there,
like all my books and announcements and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
So it's like a plethora of information that's.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
There and they can find my books, you know, everywhere
Barnes and Noble, Target, Walmart, you know, online.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
All the places.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
So and if people are looking for a place to start,
I recommend starting with before I let go.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
That's before it comes to screen.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Okay, you got to be you see it. You gotta
go ahead and do both things so you can read it.
You will be ready when it comes out on screen.
I love that for you, Kennedy, Thank you so much
just for sharing your journey here. I know that there
are a lot of listeners who maybe at that crossroads
where you were at that and you.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Know, I mean for people who are at that crossloads.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
You know, you mentioned that we both kind of came
to that place where we wanted to do something different.
I mean I didn't get my first book deal until
I was forty years old, like you know, so it's
never too late to pivot. It's never too late to
dig into a dream that you thought was out of reach.
You know, I was looking at I remember looking at
(38:41):
Tony Morrison talking about how she didn't publish her first
book or get her first book deal, and she was
thirty nine, and I used to think, wow, she didn't
get her first book deal. Was I was thirty nine
and then I'm like, oh wait, now forty your first
book deal and you never saw it coming. So it's
just it's never too late to pivot.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Yeah. Oh I love that. Thank you Kennedy so much.
This was great.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
It will be.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Her with Amina Brown is produced by Matt Owen for
Solograffeiti Productions as a part of the Seneca Women Podcast
Network in partnership with iHeartRadio. Thanks for listening and don't
forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast.
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