September 26, 2023 • 36 mins
This week I’m excited to talk with licensed psychologist, professor, poet, and author of Homecoming: Overcome Fear and Trauma to Reclaim Your Whole Authentic Self. Dr. Thema shares her favorite snacks, how poetry informs her work, tips for those considering therapy and the inspiration behind her new book. For more information about Dr. Thema, visit https://drthema.com. Please enjoy this episode from the HER Archives.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:32):
Hey, everybody, welcome back to this week's episode of Her
with Amina Brown. And you know, we've been a little
bit of time of me being here in the living
room with you all, just chatting you and telling y'all
my business. But I am happy to bring guests into
the living room. That's what the living room is for
you all. We're here, we're guests together, but we are
(00:54):
bringing a guest. And I am so excited, y'all. We
have with us life since psychologist, professor, poet, author, President
elect of the American Psychological Association, and author of Homecoming
Overcome Fear and Trauma to Reclaim your whole, authentic self,
Doctor Tama Bryan is here with us. Doctor Tama, thank
(01:16):
you so much.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Oh, thank you. I love the introduction. I can hear
the poetic flow.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
It never goes away. You do other things, but it
never leaves you.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
It's in.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Doctor Tama. I'm so excited that you are joining us, y'all.
This book right here. Sometimes, let me tell y'all, sometimes
a book that can bring healing to you upsets you.
And those books also have their place. But sometimes a
book that can bring healing to you, like you start
reading it and you already feel like you're breathing a
(01:50):
bit easier. And that's what your pages felt like to me.
And so I hope as we talk about this, doctor Tama,
that folks who have not gotten their copy of Homecoming
can make sure that they do. Because it is it is.
It is a good it is a good breath for
all of us to take.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
I'm so grateful to hear that, and that really was
the intention. I think some people have this false idea
that like telling people off, we're dismantling people is what
healing looks like. And we have enough dismantling. We have
enough of the violation and the assaults. So our healing,
(02:30):
you know, should be an invitation to something deeper and
more honoring of who we are, even as it stretches
us but still holds us.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, I love that. Now I want to start with
a very important question, it's very serious question that we
need to talk about, which is snacks, Doctor Tamas. Snacks,
It's very important, could be a part of our healing journeys.
Its snacks. Absolutely So when I talk to our her
with Amina community, I always say to them, this podcast
(03:00):
is sort of my vision of what my living room
has been like where my girlfriends and I gathered together
and sometimes we had enough money to chacouterie board and
sometimes we just had enough money to have some unfinished
hummus that happened to be sitting in the fridge, and
my girlfriend brought a bell pepper she had kind of
cut a little bit off of, and we just combined
(03:24):
all little.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Things they together.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
You know. So if you're in this situation with your
friends or your family, whoever you like to gather with,
what's your snack that you typically bring to the space.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yes, so first I was in individual snack, So just
my regular snack by myself to myself, our almends.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
I am the almond queen.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
That's a good point.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Green tea is by a soothing blanket. If I was
going somewhere, I'm not going to just bring all men.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
But when people love you, you could you you could.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
That's true, that's true, and they able to appreciate my
own in bag.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Now let me ask you a quick question about these alments,
octor Tama, So is this is this roasted? Unsulted?
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Roasted? We're not insulted over here.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
You need a little kay, little little flavor. I like it.
I like it okay, And if you're in a situation
where you had to you had to bring your snack,
but also maybe other people gonna share, then what would
be the vibes?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yes, so a snack wise, I think when you said
hamas that often resonates. And since I've been living in California,
which has been some time, I've gotten into avocado and guacamole,
so we could definitely roll with that as well.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
That's always a good choice. I'm gonna admit, doctor Tamer,
because I feel like this is a safe space that
I really don't get along with avocados, and I have
a few friends that they try to love me in
spite of of you know, that's just that's all right.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
I grew up in Baltimore, and Baltimore we.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Didn't eat avocado, so I'm good with that.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
It's just it's a late arrival.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
It's like if it's in a guacamole. For some reason,
I can handle it there. But my friends that like
slice it up and they they just salt and pepper.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Oh yeah, it's new for me.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
But now that you're saying this, doctor Tama, I'm wondering
to myself because I live in Atlanta. So I'm wondering
to myself if a part of that is location.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yeah, it just didn't grow up with it, and that.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
The avocados where you live might taste better. Ah, true,
that is true than what we're getting down here. And
really it.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Really comes down to the seasoning too. Put your shake
on there.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Come on with your on that. Maybe that's what avocado needs.
Maybe when I had it, it was.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Yeah, yeah, we're glad we had these something.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
So, doctor Tama, in addition to your work as a psychologist,
you are also a poet. I find that so wonderful
and fascinating and maybe it's also personal for me that
I'm a poet too. But what role has poetry played
in your work and in your life? How do you
see that foundation sort of playing a role even in
(06:14):
what you're doing today.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
It's so important because a lot of times, when we're
in need of healing, we have been silenced, right, and
so our stories haven't been told, they've been diluted. We've
had to read the script of what somebody else wanted
us to say. So a part of our healing is
getting my words back right and reclaiming my voice.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
And so I have used.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Poetry to heal, both personally and with clients. So with clients,
I can use it individually with people receiving kind of
homework assignments to write on a theme that came up
in session, or writing in session. And I've also done
poetry therapy groups where the entire thereapeutic process is centered
(07:01):
around reading poetry, reflecting on poetry, writing our own, and
sharing our own And I can remember once at a
poetry coffeehouse in Boston where I used to live, after
I shared a piece and it was the first time
someone said to me, I feel like I was just
in therapy. And so I think it's a wonderful vehicle
(07:22):
to bring healing beyond the walls of like the private
practice office. And I will even say a lot of
times in poetry spaces that healing voice is needed, because
sometimes in open mic it can just be like a
series of like horrible experiences with no breath and no life.
(07:43):
And I'm glad people are getting it out, but for
those who are receiving it, it can be some nights,
depending on just who signs up, it can be a
dry space. And so that combination of speaking truth but
truth with.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Breath, Oh, that breath is so important. And I recall
this about the open mic. You could have some nights
where that almost felt like this church or sort of
spiritual space, right, And then you could have some nights
where you were kind of like, Okay, I don't know
what I need to do when I leave here, I
gotta do something.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Else, something else is like I just sat through seven
terrible things to get to that one.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Good one, Like it's only coffee served here? What do
I do write with?
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Come on?
Speaker 1 (08:33):
I want to talk about the journey that led to
you writing your book. And I know that we have
many listeners that have dreams in their own hearts of
wanting to write a book and having experienced book writing
on different levels. For those of us who are authors too,
there's all this journey that leads to what people actually
(08:55):
hold in their hands. You know, sometimes the title comes first,
sometimes the theme of maybe what you want to write?
What was what was the journey like that led you
to writing this book? And did you always feel in
your heart that writing books was something you wanted to do?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah, So I will credit the seed with my mom.
She used to get my brother and I journals very early,
like in elementary school, and you know, would encourage us
to write poetry, to write our thoughts, to write solutions
to world problems.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
So I've been.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Writing early and she is a writer, and a large
part of my professional career, you know, as a professor
and a researcher, has been academic writing. And academic writing
is like the opposite of poetry, right, it is kept
for me, feels very.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Restricted and very narrow.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
And so because I have really a heart for a community,
I have always had the desire to be able to
create resources where people can get the information and it's
not just like full of jargon. You know, a lot
of my prior books are academic books that are used
(10:10):
to train future psychologists. So because they're textbooks, they're very expensive.
So I would never even tell members of the community
about them because I'm not going to have them pay
sixty five dollars. So to be able to write something
that most people can access for twenty dollars is in
alignment with my values. And the other piece that happened
(10:31):
in terms of the pathway here is I started the
Homecoming podcast about three years ago, and I started the
podcast and the aftermath, so I post mental health quotes
on social media, and people always write asking for more
information because you know, a tweet can only be a
certain number of characters. So to deal with people having questions,
(10:55):
I said, okay, let me do the podcast. The podcast
is like thirty minute episodes, and then people write me
after the episode for more questions. So you know, it's
like I could keep trying to email people back what
at the time, or I could put all this in
a resource and people could have it in their hands.
And also I was blessed that the publisher approved the
(11:16):
audio book as well for people who prefer to listen.
And so it really came from wanting to share knowledge
that it should not just be for the elite or
for the wealthy. But you know that knowledge is power,
knowledge is healing, and so that's that's why I wrote it.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
M I love that. I'm just always curious to hear
about the journey to book writing and even that you're
for yourself as a writer. You've had these different genres
of experience where you've you've written poetry, you've written academic work,
and now writing something that is is for the people,
so to speak, you know, your hope that anyone can
(12:01):
access that. I love that There's so much to say
that I loved about your book. First of all, I
personally love that there are homework sections in this book
because I didn't enjoy homework in school. But let me
tell you, when I'm in a healing space, that kind
of question asking and having different activities I can try
(12:24):
to sort of process things. That is so helpful for me.
So when I saw that, I was like, oh, I
love that, you know, like that gives you something. Sometimes
you can read something and you're taking it in, but
especially some of what is in your book that you're
really walking people through with some hard things that people
may have experienced in life. So you can even read
(12:45):
the chapter and then at the end of the chapter
feel like, Okay, well, I don't know what to do
with myself or with these feelings or thoughts, you know,
so talk to us more about what the process was
of you deciding this book shouldn't have sort of traditional chapters,
it should also have these places for application.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Yes, absolutely, I personally, And then I have also witnessed
and heard many people who will say, like a podcast
was moving, a sermon was moving, a book was moving,
and nothing has changed, right, It was like an emotional
high that did not translate in any way to our
(13:28):
real lives or behavior. And that also shows up in therapy.
You know, there are sometimes I will have clients who
and I think I even say this in the book,
who hide behind the word confused, right, So keep saying
I don't know, I don't know, I'm confused, which is immobilizing, right.
(13:49):
I never have to take action as long as I
say I don't know. So people can spend years in
therapy talking about thinking about change, and you know, at
some point we have to either shift or be willing
to tell yourself the truth that I have decided to stay.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Where I am, you know.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
And I just had a client this past week who
was kind of doing that talking in circles. The week
before had said they were going to change something. This
week it was back to the normal. So I said, so,
your truth is you have decided to stay, right, So
we just have to get to that, because no shift
is also a choosing, and it's a dissension, right, So
(14:31):
let's own our lives. I think the importance of agency
and empowerment is important, and I'm also aware I think
the significance of the homework is some people need the steps.
I think sometimes people assume that everybody has access to
the same information or knows what to do. But like
(14:53):
you said, you can come to that and say, well,
that's interesting, but what do I do with that? So
the practical part is important. That's why I kind of
my two phrases I often strive or within my work
is inspiration and information. Right, So yes, I want people
to feel capable, right, feel inspired to do it.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
But then like, now, like, what's something specific to do?
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Yeah, okay, I want to talk about y'all. I'm just
here with like a thousand things, and I'm like, I
have I only have a certain amount of time to
talk to doctor Tama. Y'all know, you know, we're not
here for two weeks where I can be like, anyways, girl,
what about this? What about that? Okay, but let me
ask you about this. One of the themes that you talked
about in the book is the idea of disconnection. And
(15:41):
I found that idea and the way you were, you know,
helping the reader kind of unfold what that means. I
found that idea so powerful on a lot of levels.
We are here at the time of this recording, still
currently in a pandemic while sort of feeling the tensions
of decisions that that may be made out of our
(16:01):
control or decisions we have to make regarding how we
still sort of try to air quotes move forward even
though we are still currently here, right. And so it
was really a powerful idea to me because I think
the last two years of living through a pandemic, particularly
speaking to those of us here in America, but really
globally as well, Right, there's a lot of disconnection that
(16:25):
we either discovered because of the pandemic and how that
changed and switched our lives, or the pandemic itself that experience,
whether that was our change in work, our change in
our family or social life, all these different ways that
affected us. So I wanted to see if you can
(16:46):
give a few of the signs. The rest of the
signs are in the book, but I want to see
if you can give a few of the signs how
can we recognize that we may be disconnected, Because one
of the things you're talking about there in the book
is that we could really live our lives disconnected and
not know or not recognize really yeah, talk more absolutely.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, thank you for that and for putting it in
the context of the pandemic, because I think we still
really fully haven't taken in what that means for us emotionally, psychologically,
the cost and the impact. And you know a lot
of people are just trying to go through the motions
or business as usual, but it has been a major disconnection,
(17:33):
a disconnection from other people and a disconnection from ourselves.
So one of the signs that you're disconnected is when
you're numb, So when you don't feel anything one way
or another. Right, we see all of these deaths by
the pandemic, We see all this racial injustice, you know,
we see all of these political dynamics. If nothing moves you,
(17:56):
then you're checked out. And we have all seen people
and even experienced times in our lives that we were
present but not present, And so to be aware, like
when did I stop feeling?
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Right?
Speaker 2 (18:12):
When did I stop feeling is one of the warning signs.
Another warning sign is when you remain in unfulfilling circumstances.
So when I stay on a dead end job, when
I stay in a dead relationship, it requires that I
check out for myself.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
There's no other way to do that.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
And so you know, I've and I think I referenced
it in the book the person who was like at
a job they hated, they complained about it all the time,
and when I asked about other options, they literally said, well,
I only have ten more years till retirement.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
It's like ten a decade. Like you're going to do
this to yourself for.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
A decade, right, And you know, I say that even
with my knowledge of like poverty and class and all
of these things. But sometimes there are options. Sometimes sometimes
we are not as stuck as we believe. And that
is also being in unfulfilling relationships where people are more
(19:16):
about counting the years and counting the joy we did it,
and it's like, but how what's the quality of those years?
What's the quality of that time? And so I would say,
if you if nothing really moves you anymore, or if
you know you're in an unfulfilling place, you're probably disconnected
(19:38):
and in needed of a homecoming.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, a return. Oh I love that. I mean, there's
a lot of there's a lot of hearing that word,
especially in black community, really across diaspora, right, there's a
lot of themes of that idea. I remember going to
funerals growing up that were referred to as homegoing, right,
(20:01):
and then there were there's sort of like you know,
homecoming in my like black college experience, and there's also
church homecoming when sort of the preacher from your mama,
your grandmama church would be like y'all, I know, y'all
been out day and going to church, come back this
one week and come on. So just all the levels
(20:21):
of that were present from me too.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Yes, I love you raising that.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
It's one of those like cultural winks when like Chris Roxas,
he could say the same joke and like black people
hear one joke and white people hear a different joke.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
So it is like all of the.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Cultural meanings of home for us, you know, uh, thinking
of community, thinking of identity, thinking of places of belonging,
thinking of celebration, uh, thinking about the collective process, you know,
as a friend of mine said, actually I think I was.
It was an interview for a podcast. They said, you know,
(21:00):
do you think we need like a national homecoming?
Speaker 3 (21:05):
And a part of this process is individual, but a
part of it is the collective as well.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, Oh I love that. When you when you were
talking about the dead end relationships and how we can
begin to count those by the years. It made me
think about that old and living color sketch where it
was like the older couple and they would say, but
we still again they fought and insulted each other and
(21:32):
all these things, but we still, Yeah, we don't have
to be That's not what's working about that, right.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
It's an important question of like how we measure success,
because sometimes people are loyal to situations that are not
loyal to them, right. And you know it can be
if my if I how I count success its endurance,
But I am enduring with something that is breaking my spirit.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
You know, it's not really healthy.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Oh that's so good. I want to talk a little
bit about therapy, especially those who are new to therapy
or considering therapy. I know here in this podcast Living
(22:31):
Room Space, we've talked a lot about the power of
therapy and the process of therapy and how it is
good to be able to remove some of our communities.
We have sort of a sense of shame if we
find ourselves feeling like we need to see a professional
that we are beyond what our friends or our family
can do to help us. So, as a professor as
(22:55):
well as a psychologist, to yourself with a practice. What
are the thoughts tip advice you would give to folks
who are either new to therapy or who are sort
of on that teetering edge considering they're thinking, yes, this
is something I need, but they feel apprehensions. What thoughts
would you give to those folks?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Yeah, absolutely, I love the question because it is important
for us to know that we are deserving of healing space.
We're deserving of spaces where we don't have to be on,
where we don't have to perform, where we don't have
to be the caretaker, where we can receive.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
And so.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Friendship and romantic relationships and family are all beautiful and
have their place, but that is not the same thing
as working through an issue with a trained professional. And
so yes, get Auntie's advice, get your sister friends advice,
but then also get the strategies for the healing and
(23:55):
the d programming and the shifting of your life and
the important couple of important things. I would say one
is not every therapist is the same. So the same
way you would like shop around for a university or
shop around for a church home, you know you can
(24:16):
shop around for a therapist. So just because you go
to one session doesn't mean you all are going to
hit it off. And if you don't hit it off,
to not think, oh I tried therapy, it doesn't work
because their therapists have different styles and different personalities. Right,
So you just want to check in with yourself to say, like,
(24:36):
what was it about it that I didn't like? So
that I can know going forward, and so to be
empowered about that that you can ask questions. You know,
think about the primary issues or challenges you want to
work on, and then look at their website and see
do they make any reference to those things, because they
(24:56):
may be brilliant.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
And something that's not your thing.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Right one is an addiction specialist and you're coming there
because you're tired of being single. They may not have that, right,
you know, many people are generalists, but you want to
think about what are the themes you want to work on,
asking them if they've worked with people with those issues.
And then if demographics are important to you, then you
(25:20):
can look at that as well. Some people prefer younger,
some people prefer old, or some people have preferences around
gender or sexuality or race and ethnicity.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
And I will say, you know, if.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
They are not your saying demographic to be comfortable and empowered,
asking them questions about that to see if it can
still work, because there are times that it can. You
would just have to feel that out right, if there
is a sense of home or safety there for you.
And you know, one of the things that people often
(25:57):
go in who have never been in therapy the first session,
they often want to say, how long is it's going
to take? And they're like, yeah, I how long a
forum healed and transformed? And you know, to that, I
would say, unless you have a therapist that's working with
a manual, we can't give you the exact number of weeks.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Now.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Sometimes let's say if you go to a college counseling center,
each student has allowed eight sessions and that's it for
the school year. So then that's not necessarily eight sessions.
Then you're done. But eight sessions and you're done, that's
all they're going to give you. So there are some
approaches that are you know, like if I run a
trauma recovery group, that's a set number of weeks. But
(26:37):
in general, if I'm working with someone individually, I can't
tell you in the beginning how long it's going to
be a Part of the reason is because most of
us don't come in the first session really revealing everything,
so it continues to unpeel, some because you don't trust
the person yet, some because of Shane, and some it's
not in your awareness right. Sometimes we're not thinking about it,
(26:58):
we didn't realize that that we're still carrying that, and
then something will happen in session that will remind you
of like, oh, that's just like whatever that situation is,
but you want to see, like what am I gaining
from it? Do I How do I feel when I'm there,
and how do I feel when I leave? And what
I do say to clients is, you know, some sessions
(27:22):
are harder than others, right, right, and it is different
than friendship, even for therapists have to make this adjustment
when I'm you know, doing training for future therapists, because
when I'm talking to a friend, if like you're upset
about something like We're going to stay on the phone
for hours till you're ready to hang up, or we
fall asleep, or I'm gonna come over your house and
we're gonna be there for hours. So therapy is generally
(27:46):
an hour, which means you know, we're pressing pause, and
so for some people they can feel like, but wait,
like I'm not done. It's not going to be done today, right,
you know, it's not gonna be all all finished today,
but we're gonna press pause, reflect on what came up
in the hour. We'll continue it next time. So that
(28:06):
sometimes is a part people have to adjust to.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
These are such great tips, folks. I hope that y'all
are listening to that. I know there are people listening
right now who are like, hmm, I think it's time.
I think I.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Need you know.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
So I'm hoping doctor Tama was able to give you
some things to help the process of going into therapy,
especially if it's your first time or it could be
your first time in a long time. You know that
it's okay that you feel those fears or those nerves
and all that. All of that is normal and good
and it is possible to find someone that feels like
(28:39):
a good fit for you. I love those tips you gave.
I want to ask a few Doctor Tama questions, so
just gonna give us a slight personal moment here. I
also gravitated to your book, Doctor Tama, because I love
things that have the theme of home. I was a
kid that grew up military, experienced both branches of the
(29:01):
military in one childhood Air Force bower me. So I
moved around a lot, and then I grew up to
be a person that travel a lot for work. So
there's a lot of that just and even in my
creative work, that theme of sort of how we make home,
how we find home, how we return to all those
themes are always so interesting to me. So I would
(29:21):
love if you can share with us what is one
place or one person who feels like home to you?
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Yeah, So the example I want to give for this,
I think is so important because it disrupts like these
notions of women not getting along, with women being competitors
or petty or like all of these kind of sexist myths.
I have a group called the Gathering and it's a
group of powerful women and we meet monthly, and before
(29:52):
the pandemic we met at my house, and since the
pandemic we meet on Zoom. But the powerful thing, the
enriching thing about this sisterhood circle is in the first hour,
we would like eat and just kind of cash we
catch up. In the second hour, we each give like
a reflection, like about five minutes. And what it allows
(30:17):
is that not one person is the pouring one, or
not one person has to be the strong one, like
everybody receives and so yes, I'm going to share something,
but then I'm getting something from everybody else in the circle,
and it's that whole piece of iron sharpens iron. So
a sisterhood circle is important where we don't have to
(30:39):
be on where I don't feel the weight of like
I am here carrying it all, but really being peers
and being sisters. And I definitely feel home the first
Sundays of every month.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Oh I love that. I love that. I love that
the sense of regularity, you know, I think there's something
really just stabilizing about that as well as especially when
I have friends and my mom is a nurse, I
have friends who are nurses. I have friends who work
(31:17):
in social work. I feel like, particularly when you work
in a cares sort of field or industry, you can
not have a lot of places sometimes where you can
go and also be poured into. And I loved that
sort of collective that there's no one person that has
to have the encouraging word to say, you know, there's
(31:39):
no pressure, you can just whatever your reflection. Is I
love that, like leveling of the emotional playing field in
a way. It's wonderful.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Right, Yeah, it's wonderful. I love it.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Now I got to ask you about food because it's
important to me. So what food reminds you of home?
Speaker 2 (31:59):
So the food that most reminds me of home is
a food I cannot eat often, and that is homemade bread.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
So good. Yes, yes, just even the way it makes
your house smell. That's what I was gonna say, Yeah,
make the way it smells. You're automatically like, yes, yes.
Is there a particular kind of homemade bread? Is it
sour dough? Is it multi grain? What's what's it doing there?
(32:27):
Or is it all the homemade bread?
Speaker 3 (32:29):
It all of it, my face, all of it.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
I love that we celebrate bread around here. We love bread.
It's delicious. What is one thing that is bringing you
joy right now, doctor Tama.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
I'm going to say my kids.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
They are such a delight and two very different personalities.
So it's just beautiful to see people as themselves. You know,
we show up to the planet, you know, it's our
own little unique beings. So it's been a it's a
pleasure watching them and getting to know.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
You know, they're just quirks and their spirit.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
And uh, my daughter is a mini me, very studious
and uh focused, and uh what I say to people
is my son came to teach me humility.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
He's a firecracker.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
And so when I just had my daughter, I could, uh,
you know, I just would say, you know, move over here,
or you know, not to talk loud. You know, whatever
you say, she's gonna do. And so I was like, parenting, right,
Parenting is a piece of cake.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Right.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
So then when my son is like, sit down, sit down,
sit down, sit down, so I said, it has given
me a lot more grace and compassion for for myself
and for other parents. Uh, but yeah, I enjoy them.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Oh I love that, doctor Tama. The people are listening.
The people want to know where they can get this
book so that they can begin their own journeys. The
people want to know how they can stay connected to
you and your work. Where would you tell the people
to go?
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Yes, absolutely so. My website is doctor Tama dot com
d R T H E m A. I would encourage
you to get the Homecoming book, to listen to the
Homecoming podcast, which is one all major platforms We're up
to like one hundred and forty someven episode, so go
catch up. And I am in social media the most
(34:37):
on Twitter and Instagram. In March when the book came out,
I joined TikTok, so I have videos there.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Yeah, come join me.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Come on, come on and tik talk for the people.
Y'all can to yourselves on TikTok too.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Come on for the people. That's where the people are,
the young people. It's best and get over there.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Oh I love that. Oh well, y'all, y'all remember these things.
But even if you don't remember, you can go to
the show notes all the links to where you can
get homecoming, or you can connect with doctor Tamer. We'll
make sure all the links are there. Doctor Tama, this
has been such a pleasure to talk with you. Thank
you for taking the time, and thank you for giving
the people something that can help us along our healing journeys.
(35:26):
Thank you for putting that work out into the world.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Oh you are welcome.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
It's been delightful talking to you, and I'm just grateful
for this space. Many blessings for you and for your listeners.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Her with Amina Brown is produced by Matt Owen for
Sober Fee Productions as a part of the Seneca Women
Podcast Network in partnership with iHeartRadio. Thanks for listening and
don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast.
Hey, everybody, welcome back to this week's episode of Her
with Amina Brown. And you know, we've been a little
bit of time of me being here in the living
room with you all, just chatting you and telling y'all
my business. But I am happy to bring guests into
the living room. That's what the living room is for
you all. We're here, we're guests together, but we are
(00:54):
bringing a guest. And I am so excited, y'all. We
have with us life since psychologist, professor, poet, author, President
elect of the American Psychological Association, and author of Homecoming
Overcome Fear and Trauma to Reclaim your whole, authentic self,
Doctor Tama Bryan is here with us. Doctor Tama, thank
(01:16):
you so much.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Oh, thank you. I love the introduction. I can hear
the poetic flow.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
It never goes away. You do other things, but it
never leaves you.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
It's in.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Doctor Tama. I'm so excited that you are joining us, y'all.
This book right here. Sometimes, let me tell y'all, sometimes
a book that can bring healing to you upsets you.
And those books also have their place. But sometimes a
book that can bring healing to you, like you start
reading it and you already feel like you're breathing a
(01:50):
bit easier. And that's what your pages felt like to me.
And so I hope as we talk about this, doctor Tama,
that folks who have not gotten their copy of Homecoming
can make sure that they do. Because it is it is.
It is a good it is a good breath for
all of us to take.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
I'm so grateful to hear that, and that really was
the intention. I think some people have this false idea
that like telling people off, we're dismantling people is what
healing looks like. And we have enough dismantling. We have
enough of the violation and the assaults. So our healing,
(02:30):
you know, should be an invitation to something deeper and
more honoring of who we are, even as it stretches
us but still holds us.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, I love that. Now I want to start with
a very important question, it's very serious question that we
need to talk about, which is snacks, Doctor Tamas. Snacks,
It's very important, could be a part of our healing journeys.
Its snacks. Absolutely So when I talk to our her
with Amina community, I always say to them, this podcast
(03:00):
is sort of my vision of what my living room
has been like where my girlfriends and I gathered together
and sometimes we had enough money to chacouterie board and
sometimes we just had enough money to have some unfinished
hummus that happened to be sitting in the fridge, and
my girlfriend brought a bell pepper she had kind of
cut a little bit off of, and we just combined
(03:24):
all little.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Things they together.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
You know. So if you're in this situation with your
friends or your family, whoever you like to gather with,
what's your snack that you typically bring to the space.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yes, so first I was in individual snack, So just
my regular snack by myself to myself, our almends.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
I am the almond queen.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
That's a good point.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Green tea is by a soothing blanket. If I was
going somewhere, I'm not going to just bring all men.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
But when people love you, you could you you could.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
That's true, that's true, and they able to appreciate my
own in bag.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Now let me ask you a quick question about these alments,
octor Tama, So is this is this roasted? Unsulted?
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Roasted? We're not insulted over here.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
You need a little kay, little little flavor. I like it.
I like it okay, And if you're in a situation
where you had to you had to bring your snack,
but also maybe other people gonna share, then what would
be the vibes?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yes, so a snack wise, I think when you said
hamas that often resonates. And since I've been living in California,
which has been some time, I've gotten into avocado and guacamole,
so we could definitely roll with that as well.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
That's always a good choice. I'm gonna admit, doctor Tamer,
because I feel like this is a safe space that
I really don't get along with avocados, and I have
a few friends that they try to love me in
spite of of you know, that's just that's all right.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
I grew up in Baltimore, and Baltimore we.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Didn't eat avocado, so I'm good with that.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
It's just it's a late arrival.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
It's like if it's in a guacamole. For some reason,
I can handle it there. But my friends that like
slice it up and they they just salt and pepper.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Oh yeah, it's new for me.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
But now that you're saying this, doctor Tama, I'm wondering
to myself because I live in Atlanta. So I'm wondering
to myself if a part of that is location.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yeah, it just didn't grow up with it, and that.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
The avocados where you live might taste better. Ah, true,
that is true than what we're getting down here. And
really it.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Really comes down to the seasoning too. Put your shake
on there.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Come on with your on that. Maybe that's what avocado needs.
Maybe when I had it, it was.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Yeah, yeah, we're glad we had these something.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
So, doctor Tama, in addition to your work as a psychologist,
you are also a poet. I find that so wonderful
and fascinating and maybe it's also personal for me that
I'm a poet too. But what role has poetry played
in your work and in your life? How do you
see that foundation sort of playing a role even in
(06:14):
what you're doing today.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
It's so important because a lot of times, when we're
in need of healing, we have been silenced, right, and
so our stories haven't been told, they've been diluted. We've
had to read the script of what somebody else wanted
us to say. So a part of our healing is
getting my words back right and reclaiming my voice.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
And so I have used.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Poetry to heal, both personally and with clients. So with clients,
I can use it individually with people receiving kind of
homework assignments to write on a theme that came up
in session, or writing in session. And I've also done
poetry therapy groups where the entire thereapeutic process is centered
(07:01):
around reading poetry, reflecting on poetry, writing our own, and
sharing our own And I can remember once at a
poetry coffeehouse in Boston where I used to live, after
I shared a piece and it was the first time
someone said to me, I feel like I was just
in therapy. And so I think it's a wonderful vehicle
(07:22):
to bring healing beyond the walls of like the private
practice office. And I will even say a lot of
times in poetry spaces that healing voice is needed, because
sometimes in open mic it can just be like a
series of like horrible experiences with no breath and no life.
(07:43):
And I'm glad people are getting it out, but for
those who are receiving it, it can be some nights,
depending on just who signs up, it can be a
dry space. And so that combination of speaking truth but
truth with.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Breath, Oh, that breath is so important. And I recall
this about the open mic. You could have some nights
where that almost felt like this church or sort of
spiritual space, right, And then you could have some nights
where you were kind of like, Okay, I don't know
what I need to do when I leave here, I
gotta do something.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Else, something else is like I just sat through seven
terrible things to get to that one.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Good one, Like it's only coffee served here? What do
I do write with?
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Come on?
Speaker 1 (08:33):
I want to talk about the journey that led to
you writing your book. And I know that we have
many listeners that have dreams in their own hearts of
wanting to write a book and having experienced book writing
on different levels. For those of us who are authors too,
there's all this journey that leads to what people actually
(08:55):
hold in their hands. You know, sometimes the title comes first,
sometimes the theme of maybe what you want to write?
What was what was the journey like that led you
to writing this book? And did you always feel in
your heart that writing books was something you wanted to do?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah, So I will credit the seed with my mom.
She used to get my brother and I journals very early,
like in elementary school, and you know, would encourage us
to write poetry, to write our thoughts, to write solutions
to world problems.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
So I've been.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Writing early and she is a writer, and a large
part of my professional career, you know, as a professor
and a researcher, has been academic writing. And academic writing
is like the opposite of poetry, right, it is kept
for me, feels very.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Restricted and very narrow.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
And so because I have really a heart for a community,
I have always had the desire to be able to
create resources where people can get the information and it's
not just like full of jargon. You know, a lot
of my prior books are academic books that are used
(10:10):
to train future psychologists. So because they're textbooks, they're very expensive.
So I would never even tell members of the community
about them because I'm not going to have them pay
sixty five dollars. So to be able to write something
that most people can access for twenty dollars is in
alignment with my values. And the other piece that happened
(10:31):
in terms of the pathway here is I started the
Homecoming podcast about three years ago, and I started the
podcast and the aftermath, so I post mental health quotes
on social media, and people always write asking for more
information because you know, a tweet can only be a
certain number of characters. So to deal with people having questions,
(10:55):
I said, okay, let me do the podcast. The podcast
is like thirty minute episodes, and then people write me
after the episode for more questions. So you know, it's
like I could keep trying to email people back what
at the time, or I could put all this in
a resource and people could have it in their hands.
And also I was blessed that the publisher approved the
(11:16):
audio book as well for people who prefer to listen.
And so it really came from wanting to share knowledge
that it should not just be for the elite or
for the wealthy. But you know that knowledge is power,
knowledge is healing, and so that's that's why I wrote it.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
M I love that. I'm just always curious to hear
about the journey to book writing and even that you're
for yourself as a writer. You've had these different genres
of experience where you've you've written poetry, you've written academic work,
and now writing something that is is for the people,
so to speak, you know, your hope that anyone can
(12:01):
access that. I love that There's so much to say
that I loved about your book. First of all, I
personally love that there are homework sections in this book
because I didn't enjoy homework in school. But let me
tell you, when I'm in a healing space, that kind
of question asking and having different activities I can try
(12:24):
to sort of process things. That is so helpful for me.
So when I saw that, I was like, oh, I
love that, you know, like that gives you something. Sometimes
you can read something and you're taking it in, but
especially some of what is in your book that you're
really walking people through with some hard things that people
may have experienced in life. So you can even read
(12:45):
the chapter and then at the end of the chapter
feel like, Okay, well, I don't know what to do
with myself or with these feelings or thoughts, you know,
so talk to us more about what the process was
of you deciding this book shouldn't have sort of traditional chapters,
it should also have these places for application.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Yes, absolutely, I personally, And then I have also witnessed
and heard many people who will say, like a podcast
was moving, a sermon was moving, a book was moving,
and nothing has changed, right, It was like an emotional
high that did not translate in any way to our
(13:28):
real lives or behavior. And that also shows up in therapy.
You know, there are sometimes I will have clients who
and I think I even say this in the book,
who hide behind the word confused, right, So keep saying
I don't know, I don't know, I'm confused, which is immobilizing, right.
(13:49):
I never have to take action as long as I
say I don't know. So people can spend years in
therapy talking about thinking about change, and you know, at
some point we have to either shift or be willing
to tell yourself the truth that I have decided to stay.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Where I am, you know.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
And I just had a client this past week who
was kind of doing that talking in circles. The week
before had said they were going to change something. This
week it was back to the normal. So I said, so,
your truth is you have decided to stay, right, So
we just have to get to that, because no shift
is also a choosing, and it's a dissension, right, So
(14:31):
let's own our lives. I think the importance of agency
and empowerment is important, and I'm also aware I think
the significance of the homework is some people need the steps.
I think sometimes people assume that everybody has access to
the same information or knows what to do. But like
(14:53):
you said, you can come to that and say, well,
that's interesting, but what do I do with that? So
the practical part is important. That's why I kind of
my two phrases I often strive or within my work
is inspiration and information. Right, So yes, I want people
to feel capable, right, feel inspired to do it.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
But then like, now, like, what's something specific to do?
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Yeah, okay, I want to talk about y'all. I'm just
here with like a thousand things, and I'm like, I
have I only have a certain amount of time to
talk to doctor Tama. Y'all know, you know, we're not
here for two weeks where I can be like, anyways, girl,
what about this? What about that? Okay, but let me
ask you about this. One of the themes that you talked
about in the book is the idea of disconnection. And
(15:41):
I found that idea and the way you were, you know,
helping the reader kind of unfold what that means. I
found that idea so powerful on a lot of levels.
We are here at the time of this recording, still
currently in a pandemic while sort of feeling the tensions
of decisions that that may be made out of our
(16:01):
control or decisions we have to make regarding how we
still sort of try to air quotes move forward even
though we are still currently here, right. And so it
was really a powerful idea to me because I think
the last two years of living through a pandemic, particularly
speaking to those of us here in America, but really
globally as well, Right, there's a lot of disconnection that
(16:25):
we either discovered because of the pandemic and how that
changed and switched our lives, or the pandemic itself that experience,
whether that was our change in work, our change in
our family or social life, all these different ways that
affected us. So I wanted to see if you can
(16:46):
give a few of the signs. The rest of the
signs are in the book, but I want to see
if you can give a few of the signs how
can we recognize that we may be disconnected, Because one
of the things you're talking about there in the book
is that we could really live our lives disconnected and
not know or not recognize really yeah, talk more absolutely.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, thank you for that and for putting it in
the context of the pandemic, because I think we still
really fully haven't taken in what that means for us emotionally, psychologically,
the cost and the impact. And you know a lot
of people are just trying to go through the motions
or business as usual, but it has been a major disconnection,
(17:33):
a disconnection from other people and a disconnection from ourselves.
So one of the signs that you're disconnected is when
you're numb, So when you don't feel anything one way
or another. Right, we see all of these deaths by
the pandemic, We see all this racial injustice, you know,
we see all of these political dynamics. If nothing moves you,
(17:56):
then you're checked out. And we have all seen people
and even experienced times in our lives that we were
present but not present, And so to be aware, like
when did I stop feeling?
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Right?
Speaker 2 (18:12):
When did I stop feeling is one of the warning signs.
Another warning sign is when you remain in unfulfilling circumstances.
So when I stay on a dead end job, when
I stay in a dead relationship, it requires that I
check out for myself.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
There's no other way to do that.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
And so you know, I've and I think I referenced
it in the book the person who was like at
a job they hated, they complained about it all the time,
and when I asked about other options, they literally said, well,
I only have ten more years till retirement.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
It's like ten a decade. Like you're going to do
this to yourself for.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
A decade, right, And you know, I say that even
with my knowledge of like poverty and class and all
of these things. But sometimes there are options. Sometimes sometimes
we are not as stuck as we believe. And that
is also being in unfulfilling relationships where people are more
(19:16):
about counting the years and counting the joy we did it,
and it's like, but how what's the quality of those years?
What's the quality of that time? And so I would say,
if you if nothing really moves you anymore, or if
you know you're in an unfulfilling place, you're probably disconnected
(19:38):
and in needed of a homecoming.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, a return. Oh I love that. I mean, there's
a lot of there's a lot of hearing that word,
especially in black community, really across diaspora, right, there's a
lot of themes of that idea. I remember going to
funerals growing up that were referred to as homegoing, right,
(20:01):
and then there were there's sort of like you know,
homecoming in my like black college experience, and there's also
church homecoming when sort of the preacher from your mama,
your grandmama church would be like y'all, I know, y'all
been out day and going to church, come back this
one week and come on. So just all the levels
(20:21):
of that were present from me too.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Yes, I love you raising that.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
It's one of those like cultural winks when like Chris Roxas,
he could say the same joke and like black people
hear one joke and white people hear a different joke.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
So it is like all of the.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Cultural meanings of home for us, you know, uh, thinking
of community, thinking of identity, thinking of places of belonging,
thinking of celebration, uh, thinking about the collective process, you know,
as a friend of mine said, actually I think I was.
It was an interview for a podcast. They said, you know,
(21:00):
do you think we need like a national homecoming?
Speaker 3 (21:05):
And a part of this process is individual, but a
part of it is the collective as well.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, Oh I love that. When you when you were
talking about the dead end relationships and how we can
begin to count those by the years. It made me
think about that old and living color sketch where it
was like the older couple and they would say, but
we still again they fought and insulted each other and
(21:32):
all these things, but we still, Yeah, we don't have
to be That's not what's working about that, right.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
It's an important question of like how we measure success,
because sometimes people are loyal to situations that are not
loyal to them, right. And you know it can be
if my if I how I count success its endurance,
But I am enduring with something that is breaking my spirit.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
You know, it's not really healthy.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Oh that's so good. I want to talk a little
bit about therapy, especially those who are new to therapy
or considering therapy. I know here in this podcast Living
(22:31):
Room Space, we've talked a lot about the power of
therapy and the process of therapy and how it is
good to be able to remove some of our communities.
We have sort of a sense of shame if we
find ourselves feeling like we need to see a professional
that we are beyond what our friends or our family
can do to help us. So, as a professor as
(22:55):
well as a psychologist, to yourself with a practice. What
are the thoughts tip advice you would give to folks
who are either new to therapy or who are sort
of on that teetering edge considering they're thinking, yes, this
is something I need, but they feel apprehensions. What thoughts
would you give to those folks?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Yeah, absolutely, I love the question because it is important
for us to know that we are deserving of healing space.
We're deserving of spaces where we don't have to be on,
where we don't have to perform, where we don't have
to be the caretaker, where we can receive.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
And so.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Friendship and romantic relationships and family are all beautiful and
have their place, but that is not the same thing
as working through an issue with a trained professional. And
so yes, get Auntie's advice, get your sister friends advice,
but then also get the strategies for the healing and
(23:55):
the d programming and the shifting of your life and
the important couple of important things. I would say one
is not every therapist is the same. So the same
way you would like shop around for a university or
shop around for a church home, you know you can
(24:16):
shop around for a therapist. So just because you go
to one session doesn't mean you all are going to
hit it off. And if you don't hit it off,
to not think, oh I tried therapy, it doesn't work
because their therapists have different styles and different personalities. Right,
So you just want to check in with yourself to say, like,
(24:36):
what was it about it that I didn't like? So
that I can know going forward, and so to be
empowered about that that you can ask questions. You know,
think about the primary issues or challenges you want to
work on, and then look at their website and see
do they make any reference to those things, because they
(24:56):
may be brilliant.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
And something that's not your thing.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Right one is an addiction specialist and you're coming there
because you're tired of being single. They may not have that, right,
you know, many people are generalists, but you want to
think about what are the themes you want to work on,
asking them if they've worked with people with those issues.
And then if demographics are important to you, then you
(25:20):
can look at that as well. Some people prefer younger,
some people prefer old, or some people have preferences around
gender or sexuality or race and ethnicity.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
And I will say, you know, if.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
They are not your saying demographic to be comfortable and empowered,
asking them questions about that to see if it can
still work, because there are times that it can. You
would just have to feel that out right, if there
is a sense of home or safety there for you.
And you know, one of the things that people often
(25:57):
go in who have never been in therapy the first session,
they often want to say, how long is it's going
to take? And they're like, yeah, I how long a
forum healed and transformed? And you know, to that, I
would say, unless you have a therapist that's working with
a manual, we can't give you the exact number of weeks.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Now.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Sometimes let's say if you go to a college counseling center,
each student has allowed eight sessions and that's it for
the school year. So then that's not necessarily eight sessions.
Then you're done. But eight sessions and you're done, that's
all they're going to give you. So there are some
approaches that are you know, like if I run a
trauma recovery group, that's a set number of weeks. But
(26:37):
in general, if I'm working with someone individually, I can't
tell you in the beginning how long it's going to
be a Part of the reason is because most of
us don't come in the first session really revealing everything,
so it continues to unpeel, some because you don't trust
the person yet, some because of Shane, and some it's
not in your awareness right. Sometimes we're not thinking about it,
(26:58):
we didn't realize that that we're still carrying that, and
then something will happen in session that will remind you
of like, oh, that's just like whatever that situation is,
but you want to see, like what am I gaining
from it? Do I How do I feel when I'm there,
and how do I feel when I leave? And what
I do say to clients is, you know, some sessions
(27:22):
are harder than others, right, right, and it is different
than friendship, even for therapists have to make this adjustment
when I'm you know, doing training for future therapists, because
when I'm talking to a friend, if like you're upset
about something like We're going to stay on the phone
for hours till you're ready to hang up, or we
fall asleep, or I'm gonna come over your house and
we're gonna be there for hours. So therapy is generally
(27:46):
an hour, which means you know, we're pressing pause, and
so for some people they can feel like, but wait,
like I'm not done. It's not going to be done today, right,
you know, it's not gonna be all all finished today,
but we're gonna press pause, reflect on what came up
in the hour. We'll continue it next time. So that
(28:06):
sometimes is a part people have to adjust to.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
These are such great tips, folks. I hope that y'all
are listening to that. I know there are people listening
right now who are like, hmm, I think it's time.
I think I.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Need you know.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
So I'm hoping doctor Tama was able to give you
some things to help the process of going into therapy,
especially if it's your first time or it could be
your first time in a long time. You know that
it's okay that you feel those fears or those nerves
and all that. All of that is normal and good
and it is possible to find someone that feels like
(28:39):
a good fit for you. I love those tips you gave.
I want to ask a few Doctor Tama questions, so
just gonna give us a slight personal moment here. I
also gravitated to your book, Doctor Tama, because I love
things that have the theme of home. I was a
kid that grew up military, experienced both branches of the
(29:01):
military in one childhood Air Force bower me. So I
moved around a lot, and then I grew up to
be a person that travel a lot for work. So
there's a lot of that just and even in my
creative work, that theme of sort of how we make home,
how we find home, how we return to all those
themes are always so interesting to me. So I would
(29:21):
love if you can share with us what is one
place or one person who feels like home to you?
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Yeah, So the example I want to give for this,
I think is so important because it disrupts like these
notions of women not getting along, with women being competitors
or petty or like all of these kind of sexist myths.
I have a group called the Gathering and it's a
group of powerful women and we meet monthly, and before
(29:52):
the pandemic we met at my house, and since the
pandemic we meet on Zoom. But the powerful thing, the
enriching thing about this sisterhood circle is in the first hour,
we would like eat and just kind of cash we
catch up. In the second hour, we each give like
a reflection, like about five minutes. And what it allows
(30:17):
is that not one person is the pouring one, or
not one person has to be the strong one, like
everybody receives and so yes, I'm going to share something,
but then I'm getting something from everybody else in the circle,
and it's that whole piece of iron sharpens iron. So
a sisterhood circle is important where we don't have to
(30:39):
be on where I don't feel the weight of like
I am here carrying it all, but really being peers
and being sisters. And I definitely feel home the first
Sundays of every month.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Oh I love that. I love that. I love that
the sense of regularity, you know, I think there's something
really just stabilizing about that as well as especially when
I have friends and my mom is a nurse, I
have friends who are nurses. I have friends who work
(31:17):
in social work. I feel like, particularly when you work
in a cares sort of field or industry, you can
not have a lot of places sometimes where you can
go and also be poured into. And I loved that
sort of collective that there's no one person that has
to have the encouraging word to say, you know, there's
(31:39):
no pressure, you can just whatever your reflection. Is I
love that, like leveling of the emotional playing field in
a way. It's wonderful.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Right, Yeah, it's wonderful. I love it.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Now I got to ask you about food because it's
important to me. So what food reminds you of home?
Speaker 2 (31:59):
So the food that most reminds me of home is
a food I cannot eat often, and that is homemade bread.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
So good. Yes, yes, just even the way it makes
your house smell. That's what I was gonna say, Yeah,
make the way it smells. You're automatically like, yes, yes.
Is there a particular kind of homemade bread? Is it
sour dough? Is it multi grain? What's what's it doing there?
(32:27):
Or is it all the homemade bread?
Speaker 3 (32:29):
It all of it, my face, all of it.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
I love that we celebrate bread around here. We love bread.
It's delicious. What is one thing that is bringing you
joy right now, doctor Tama.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
I'm going to say my kids.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
They are such a delight and two very different personalities.
So it's just beautiful to see people as themselves. You know,
we show up to the planet, you know, it's our
own little unique beings. So it's been a it's a
pleasure watching them and getting to know.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
You know, they're just quirks and their spirit.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
And uh, my daughter is a mini me, very studious
and uh focused, and uh what I say to people
is my son came to teach me humility.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
He's a firecracker.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
And so when I just had my daughter, I could, uh,
you know, I just would say, you know, move over here,
or you know, not to talk loud. You know, whatever
you say, she's gonna do. And so I was like, parenting, right,
Parenting is a piece of cake.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Right.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
So then when my son is like, sit down, sit down,
sit down, sit down, so I said, it has given
me a lot more grace and compassion for for myself
and for other parents. Uh, but yeah, I enjoy them.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Oh I love that, doctor Tama. The people are listening.
The people want to know where they can get this
book so that they can begin their own journeys. The
people want to know how they can stay connected to
you and your work. Where would you tell the people
to go?
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Yes, absolutely so. My website is doctor Tama dot com
d R T H E m A. I would encourage
you to get the Homecoming book, to listen to the
Homecoming podcast, which is one all major platforms We're up
to like one hundred and forty someven episode, so go
catch up. And I am in social media the most
(34:37):
on Twitter and Instagram. In March when the book came out,
I joined TikTok, so I have videos there.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Yeah, come join me.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Come on, come on and tik talk for the people.
Y'all can to yourselves on TikTok too.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Come on for the people. That's where the people are,
the young people. It's best and get over there.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Oh I love that. Oh well, y'all, y'all remember these things.
But even if you don't remember, you can go to
the show notes all the links to where you can
get homecoming, or you can connect with doctor Tamer. We'll
make sure all the links are there. Doctor Tama, this
has been such a pleasure to talk with you. Thank
you for taking the time, and thank you for giving
the people something that can help us along our healing journeys.
(35:26):
Thank you for putting that work out into the world.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Oh you are welcome.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
It's been delightful talking to you, and I'm just grateful
for this space. Many blessings for you and for your listeners.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Her with Amina Brown is produced by Matt Owen for
Sober Fee Productions as a part of the Seneca Women
Podcast Network in partnership with iHeartRadio. Thanks for listening and
don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast.
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