August 9, 2022 • 50 mins
I have lived in the South most of my life. The food, the soil, the music, the accents, the air here is home to me. Southern hip hop gave me language for so much of what I experienced so I am excited to chat with Dr. Regina Bradley, a southern hip hop scholar and author of Chronicling Stankonia: The Rise of the Hip Hop South. Listen in as Dr. Regina and I talk about Outkast, quintessential Southern hip hop songs, and why southern hip hop must be studied through an academic lens. You can learn more about Dr. Regina’s work and her new book at her website www.redclayscholar.com. Her book Chronicling Stankonia: The Rise of the Hip Hop South is available everywhere books are sold. You can also follow Regina on Twitter at @redclayscholar. Please enjoy this episode from the HER Archives.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:33):
Welcome back to this week's episode of Her with Amina Brown,
and I am all in my like Southern girl feelings
today because we're we're talking about Southern hip hop today
with Assistant Professor of English and Africa and Diaspora Studies
at Kinnesa State University, writer researcher, daughter of the Black
(00:53):
American South, author of chronicling Stink Oya the Rise of
the Hip Hop South. Let's welcome them, Dr Regina Bradley
to the her living room. What's going long? I take
all applause all over, Okay, I'm giving it to you
because there should be thousands of people here, you know,
(01:14):
with us that would have been clapping. They're listening. You know,
they're listening, but since they can't clap for us right now,
I'm I'm here using these two hands to help that. Y'all.
Let me know what they say. Three are gathered okay, okay, okay,
and and we're here and my husband and producer Key here.
That's three of us. There's two three of us who
(01:36):
we're here. That's it. That's it, that's it. I'm so
excited to have Dr Regina Bradley here in our her
living room because I have been following her on Twitter
for a long time. I cannot remember who it was.
It was another black woman a couple of years ago
that was like, y'all need to go follow like told
(01:56):
a bunch of us to follow you. That's when I
started following you a couple of years ago. And then
when I saw you talking about your book Chronicling Stankonia,
I was like, I am in desperate need of having
her on this podcast. So thank you for agreeing to this. Okay,
So I need to start with some basic facts and
just let me tell you I have grown up mostly
(02:16):
in the South. I moved around a lot as a kid,
but I basically lived between Texas and the South and
Texas people listening, Texas is not the South, and we
love you, okay, we love you. We're started off early
with violence. We love your Texas. Like Texas is its
own place if y'all live there, y'all know what I mean,
(02:37):
because I I went to high school in Texas, junior
high and high school actually, and it has Southern things,
but it's its own place, Okay. So like I lived
in Texas and then just different parts of the South
and Georgia. Obviously, I've been here over twenty years now.
But my people people are from North Carolina. So when
I moved to Atlanta for college, I had a friend
(02:58):
that went to Clark, Atlanta that was from where you
grew up in Georgia. Now I pronounced that Albany. When
I first saw it. I was like, Okay, you're from Albany, Georgia.
And he was like, that's not where I'm from. He
was like, I'm from all Benny. Okay, that's how he
(03:21):
told me to say it. Can you can you discuss
why it's important to make sure that we don't pronounce Albany,
New York the same as All Benny, Georgia. Just discussed
for the people. I mean, I'm just saying, your red clay,
your water, your blues ain't like ours, you know what
I'm saying. So Albany, Albany is very Northeastern, you know
(03:49):
what I'm saying. It's our sister city. But I mean,
I just get excited when I'd be like, hey, hey, folks,
are you from Yeah, I from Albany. I'm I outside
raised over here. Okay, it's just different. It's just different.
I feel like the ancestors living your voice when you
(04:10):
say all, Benny, you know, it comes little triumph, the
chili dogs, all of it. I need everything about this.
Can you also explain to people because I feel like
for a lot of people that have either never been
to Georgia or aren't familiar with the state. For a
lot of people, Atlanta is Georgia and they just that's
that's everything. But Atlanta is not Georgia. There are just
(04:33):
many other cities, communities, and other layers of Southern culture
going on outside of the city of Atlanta. So can
you talk about what's the difference between growing up in
all beany versus versus what it is like to be
in Atlanta. First of all, Atlanta might as well be
its own state within the state, you know what I mean,
(04:54):
Because the perimeter is its own thing, you know what
I mean. It's contained in its own physical space. I
mean like it literally has two eighty five to to
surround it, the circumference of the city, you know what
I mean. But once you go ot p outside the perimeter,
you know what I mean, that's when you get quote
(05:14):
unquote real Georgia, you know what I mean, Like so
many of us. I mean, it's interesting because Atlanta, for
for folks like me who grew up outside of the perimeter.
It's it's like how folks think about New York, you
know what I mean, Like when you want to get
away from from from home and you want to be successful,
you go to a louta, right, you know what I mean.
It's closing up to home. If something goes down, you
(05:35):
can be like, all right, I'm gonna just hop all
seventy five and come back. But it's big enough that
falks are like, oh, you live in Atlanta, and folks
don't judge you. You don't like, yeah, I'm in Atlanta, right.
But it's important because this is something I kind of
talked about in the book too, is is that you know,
the South isn't a monelith. And what that means is,
you know, how I came up in Georgia is different
than somebody in Mississippi or Alabama. But even within the state,
(05:57):
how I came up in southwest Georgia, which is I mean,
all benis is a you know, the Benny is a
small city so to speak, but it ain't nowhere in
near Atlanta size, but you know it's it's small, small town,
rural Georgia. So like fields and and you know, ship
closed on Sunday at four o'clock. You know what I'm saying,
Like everything closed for Chuch. You know what I'm saying. Um,
(06:19):
it's different than Atlanta as this urban hub, you know
what I'm saying. So it's important to kind of recognize
that because it translates one way in the Aid, doesn't
mean it's gonna translate the same way in the Benny
or in way Cross or in Savannah. So I mean,
like it's just it's just important to let folks like
have their own flavor and do their own thing. But unfortunately,
because Atlanta is so internationally known and folks, that's what
(06:41):
folks gravitate towards, you know what I mean. Like, you
don't hear nobody being like, yeah, I'm going on vacation
to Oscilla. No offense to people from Oscilla, you know
what I mean. I'm just saying, like, it's that's not
that's not like at the top of the list. It's no,
I'm going on vacation to Atlanta, you know what I'm saying.
So it's just important to kind of recognize, you know,
everybody has their own flavor, even within the state. So
(07:02):
all that to say, yeah, the benny is definitely different
than a with a little at We love to see that. Okay,
first of all, it touches me that you have written
this book, and y'all that are listening that are just
about to go to your bookseller and buy five copies
(07:24):
of this book. This book is so important. Please and
buy Indy while you added, I'm telling you your favorite
book seller, but your favorite book seller should be in Dye.
So work on that, do that and buy five copies
at the time. What I love about this book is
it it's a read for people who are hip hop
connoisseurs who enjoy hip hop culture and music, but that
(07:47):
it's also something that can be used as a textbook,
right that there could be people studying this in a classroom.
So I want to talk about the first time that
you can remember hearing Outcasts music. And I'll tell you
what my first time was. I know that I was
in high school and there was like a little kind
(08:08):
of like a concrete bench of some kind that was
in sort of the courtyard of our school where everybody
hung out. And I had a friend Chris, who also
you know, wrapped on the side as many of us
did at this era of time, and I remember him
freaking out about having heard this verse that opens with
(08:28):
is the m my crooked letter? Right? And as he
was saying the words to us, he sang the words
to us. I hadn't even heard the song myself. Actually,
first he said the words to us, because we were
all like studying hip hop a lot, trying to wrap
you know, this was before I realized that I can
really rapping one's gonna be for me and I need
to become a poet. But I was still, you know,
(08:49):
trying at this time. And so because he mentioned it
to us, then you know, we all had to go
home and try to see how we could find this
music and listen to it and hearing there, I mean,
still it still touches me when I hear their music today,
hearing how distinctly Southern their voices were on that music.
(09:11):
So what was your first time your first memory of
hearing this music from Outcast? The Martin episode of Players Ball.
That was my very first memory of hearing Outcasts, And
it was right at the end, so I was like, oh, so,
I mean like yeah, I mean like I'm still well,
I still feel like I'm still kind of yo. But
it was like right before bedtime, so to speak, you
(09:32):
know what I'm saying, Like it was like, yeah, okay,
you get this last little minute of Martin and it's
time if you go to bed. Um. But my first
for like my first for real, for real time, Like
what you're talking about is definitely um on goody months
black ice, you know, because I mean, like I talked
about that in the book too. But it was just
like you know, friends, Romans, Country, Ma and meyr there drums.
(09:53):
It was a beautiful day off in the neighborhood. I
was like, what neighborhood we're going to? What? Why is
it so beautiful? You know what I'm saying? What okay, okay,
tell me everything. I just remember just like I remember
like classmates and friends, you know what I'm saying, just
randomly throwing out outcast lyrics, going to going down the hall.
But you know what I'm saying. It was like for
(10:15):
me coming from Northern Virginia, where outcasts it was only
a word in the dictionary at the time. Like I
don't remember listening to outcasts like that when I was
in the Northern Virginia. I was in Alexandria, Fort Bellboy
because military brat, you know what I'm like, Yeah, you know,
so when I come South, I'm in my mind, I'm
thinking everybody listens to the same kind of hip hop,
(10:37):
you know what I'm saying. So I'm like, all right,
so if I'm listening to you know, bad Boy and
Busta Rhymes and Wu Tang and all the folks who
were on the radio in the d n V, well,
of course that's what they're listening to in small ass,
rural ass Southwest Georgia. And then I get down there
trying to, you know, connect classmates and like, shouty, now
(11:02):
we don't we don't that when they ain't who were
listening to? No? For real? Ain't? Like I remember this
one dude. He was asking like what I had on
my little mix tapes because you know that was a currency,
you know what I mean, like passing, passing and share
mixtapes and and and dude was like, shouty with this deal?
What who? Who? This is like you ain't listening to
(11:25):
nobody out of the he ain't listening to no. I
mean like he was just laming off all of these
Southern folks. You g K eight following m J. G
three six Mafia, you know what I'm saying. And I'm
just kind of like I'm the new kid, So that
gave me some kind of at least some kind of advantage.
But then when they were like showing the listening to
our music, that just put me in a whole different hole,
(11:46):
so to speak. So I had to dig myself up
out the whole. So of course I'm listening to well
at the time it was hot one or six point one.
It ain't there, no war, and also ninety six point three,
which is still there. And I'm like taking notes and
making new mixtapes because I'm like, if I die now,
there's no coming back from this social death. When I
started high school, enjoying something rob became a life of
(12:08):
death situation for a freshman, and in't coming freshman to
high school, you know what I'm saying. Who can't write
about nothing? So yeah, and I just remember like how
my mixtapes changed over time. It was like, okay, so
I remember on the one I brought from d C.
It was like I think I had White Clefts John
on there, there was bad Boy on there, and then
it like abruptly cuts off to tear the club but
(12:33):
and like MASTERP you know what I'm saying, And I'm like, yeah,
you can kind of tell this is when your girl transitioned,
right right. I Mean, one of the things that I
really love about just this era of hip hop, you know,
especially those first couple of albums of Outcasts, is that
(12:53):
hip hop had so much of a regional element then,
you know, Like I remember being in Texas and I
grew up in San Antonio, Texas, which was kind of
like I mean, because my parents were in the military too,
so that's what moved us to San Antonio. But being
in a city like that where a lot of people
were kind of in and out as a very transient place,
it was sort of like we didn't really know our
(13:14):
hip hop identity all the way because we didn't have
any m c s from there then, but we did
have DJ screw from that area around like sort of
Southern Texas time, and so I remember living there and
there being a very specific Texas sort of hip hop sound.
And then when I moved to Atlanta for college, I
(13:36):
moved here for college in so that was the year
that a Quim and I came out, and if you
were driving by anybody's dorm rooms, apartments, you know, everybody's
windows open playing that record, And I think that was
really the first time that I got to experience what
a cultural shift a group like Outcast was bringing. I mean,
(14:00):
still Rosa Parks as a song, it's still a very
life changing situation with me. Just the middle of that song,
with this fiddle cold down, just just the the nerve
to put that in the middle of a hip hop song,
I was like, whatever this is, I really need this,
you know. So I I love to hear about that
(14:23):
because I think for us trying to be rappers, those
of us who try in the late nineties, we were
emulating New York because that's you know, at the time
where it was like, that's the sound you need to
have or keep. Then to start hearing what the South
was doing with hip hop gave you all this other
stuff you could be doing with how you rap, with
(14:46):
how you produce all of that. So, Okay, the other
thing I want to ask you about is we're people
talking about Kilo Ali when you were girling? Can can
you discuss Kilo Ali with me? Because when I moved
here to Atlanta, Georgia, and I would ask people as
you did, back then, you you're one of your first
questions you brought this up. One of your first questions
(15:08):
to people is like, well, what's what would rap you
listening to? Like, who's your favorite rapper? People that are
born and raised Atlanta were like Kilo Ali And I
was like, who is that at all? And people who
are born to race here, not people who moved here
(15:31):
to get a job. People who born a race here,
they were children here. They were like, it's Kilo Ali
for me. Can you discuss the importance of Kilo in
the southern hip hop conversation? Well? Yeah, I mean Kilo
Ailie and was one of the earliest introductions to hip
(15:51):
hop sound originating in Atlanta. That's I mean, that's the
best way to put it, you know what I'm saying.
So when he comes out with you know, cocaine in
like n you know what I mean, before we had
trapped music, we had Kilo Ali. You know what I'm saying. Um,
And then there's also you know when my first introduction
(16:13):
to Kilo Ali was baby Baby. You know what I'm saying,
Like I need your l O V. You know, baby Baby.
I was like, Okay. Then I heard you know, boom
in my car. You know what I'm saying, Uh, show
me love all of these you know what, all of
these things. So I mean like he is an architect
for Atlanta. Sound you know what I mean. You can't
talk about Atlanta obviously, can't talk about Atlanta without organized noise, right,
(16:38):
but you also can't talk about Atlanta without like Kilo
Ali Rahine the dream. You know what I'm saying, Like
these these folks who were taking what they saw going
on in Atlanta, how they grew up in these communities
in Atlanta and putting that on wax and in ways
that folks weren't really checking for. You know what I'm saying.
So I get it. You know what I mean. If
you really from the A, you you're like Keilo's gonna
(16:59):
be at the top of your be at least at minimum,
in your top three at minimum, you know what I'm saying. So, yeah,
I get it. I get it. I had to go that.
That was my moment of moving here to Georgia and
having to get educated when the people were like, it's
Kilo Ali. And I think at the moment, Regina, I
(17:19):
didn't even want to be like, I don't know who
that is. I was just like, oh yeah, word, yeah,
has to go home and figure out, like, yeah, you
don't want to be called out. He's like, but then
you like you get back to the room where you'd
be like, okay, hold up, let me what are they
talking about? Let me go when I'm streaming back. Then
you literally just sit down at the radio and be like, Okay,
(17:40):
I'm ready. Let me wait till they dropped this Keilo
song so I can know what they're talking about. Drop
it though you knew they were gonna drop it around
like nine o'clock because like in all many they had
the Dirty South Hour, like the Bootshake Hour, so that
was like from like nine to ten. So ke gonna
show up at least one time in the mix, you
(18:01):
know what I mean. And if that's your one thing,
you better use the hell out of be like, yeah,
I know what you're talking. You better know a verbatim. Okay,
you gotta be ready next time. You can't just be
out here to go. You can't be out here not knowing. Okay,
you brought up what is a very important question among
hip hop heads. We normally trade what what is? What
(18:21):
would we say are our top five m c s
I want to narrow that question and ask you, what
do you feel are five Southern hip hop quintessential songs?
Like if you could think of five Southern hip hop
songs that you feel like these are essential to the cannon.
If you're entering the conversation, you need to at least
(18:46):
know these. What would you say are those top five songs?
It's hard to it's hard to name. I hate this question.
You can't say this question just give you feel like
it changes. I'm talking. Somebody asked me this question. Okay,
today today I feel like you g K. Pocket full
of Stones is important. Three Mafia to the club up
(19:08):
is important. Elevators by outcast is important. Trying to make
sure I hit all the areas, so to speak, back
that ass up is canonical. It's not a lie. It's
not a lie. I guess because I'm from Georgia and
Atlanta has such an influence on me. I'm going back
(19:30):
to Atlanta with this one. But I feel like cool
Breeze watch for the Hook so important. M but also
put three six Mafia's Late Night Tip in that conversation
because gangster boogles all the way off. But those are
the ones that need to come of mind today today.
That's right. So if you're if your audience is like
Dr Bradley, you disappoint me. I'm like, listen, this changes
(19:53):
every time somebody asked me this question. But today that's
who I'm going with. That's what I'm going with today.
I respect these choices right here because I feel like
you gave us a good amount of breadth. You know,
you gave us some places to go. And I mean,
you know, you brought up gangster. But I was like, Okay,
when we're done with this interview, I'm gonna have to
(20:13):
go revisit that real. Listen to her, she she led
a game quite flat on Late Night till I'm just
kind of like, oh wow, right, But I mean, like,
regardless of what day, back to that, sup though. It's
gonna be on my top five. So okay, it changed
my life. It changed my life because I was at
the little home come and dance, you know what I'm saying,
and um, you know, we're still whiling about okay, but
(20:37):
then you know, folks dancing and then all of a sudden,
DJ just kind of drops out the little music, you
know what I mean, He's doing his little talking thing,
boom boom boom, and then all of a sudden you
hear the beginning of back of That, and folks are
just looking at each other like what what? And we
were like, play that bad? And I couldn't really because
(21:00):
it was high school, right, But when it played it
in college, I have my cup. I have a little
solo cup, you know what I'm saying. I have a
little secret drinking there. And you know you'll be making
your final rounds. You'd be like, all right, then I'm
see y'all wood woo, and then you hear it come
on and you're like, you know what, I got one
more in me? Okay, I got one more dance in me.
(21:22):
I got I got one more, one more dance in me.
You know what I'm saying. So it's gonna forever, you know.
And I'm thirty seven now and I ain't got no
Megan the stall your knees, you know what I'm saying.
It's not, but I'm gonna. I'm gonna give you a
Megan the Stallion effort. Whenever I hear this is what
I respect, but this is what we need. I'm making
(21:43):
these Stallion efforts. Okay, I'm gonna get the effort. I'm
gonna give you the effort. Now my husband might have
to pick me up what he has had to do
in the past, you know, Mr Bradley. But you know
I'm gonna pretend like it's backing on the A nine
in nine and I'm pretending like we tell can know
it for the two thousand's, like I still got sixteen, seventeen,
twenty year old knees. You know what I mean. Give
(22:06):
you the effort. That's the one song you will always
get the effort out of Regina's. I feel inspired by this.
This is what I this is what I aspired to,
is the making these stallion effort. That's all I have.
I also, I want to echo your sentiments about back
that ass up because the last time I went to
(22:27):
my college reunion, I graduated from Spellman, So we were
doing the Spellman moor House tailgate, which is wild. It's
wild time, Okay. So the last time I went out there,
they had a DJ on the Spellman side, and there's
always like a few older alumni who are there that
are like twenty, some of them thirty years older than us.
(22:48):
So when the DJ on their side drops like brick House,
all decorum is over, it's done. They're just there's just
hips and booty all over the place. And my girlfriend
looked at me when we were at home coming the
last time before the pandemic. She turned to me and
she said, you know that in several years, this is
(23:12):
us to back that asset. That's exactly what the song
is too, because I feel that, I feel that, and
this pengita is messing us all because I miss home coming,
like there's no home coming like HBCU home comes. I
don't you know what I mean. Like I took my
daughter to Virginia State home coming in twenty nineteen, right,
(23:33):
and she was looking at me crazy because I didn't
go to Virginia State. My cousin went to Virginia State.
So it was like, you know, I ain't really know nobody,
but because I knew my cousin, of course, and then
I'm also Greek, you know what I'm saying. So it
was like I got the float and my daughter was like, Mom,
do you know these people? I'm like no, And that's
the point. That's the point that we can turn up.
(23:56):
We can turn up. So I agree with you. I'm
gonna be fifty six years old and and somebody gonna
be like, what you know about this? And then it's
gonna be these younger folks gonna come up in there
and we're gonna push the younger folks out the way
and be like, move this is not for you. But
also add nuck if you buck to that. I speak
a word today about nuck. If you buck, it's it's real.
(24:19):
I'd be like, I see like younger. I'm like, I
see like because I'm I'm an ak area, so I
feel like the younger stories kind of like run out there.
I see like the younger alpha's run out there. And
then like in my age, I'm like, move, move out
to a now, move move that ain't for you, y'all
in this whistle alphas, I'll be ready to fight. I'm like,
where did the whistle come from? There's no whistle, but anyway,
(24:42):
but yeah, back of ass up and get you buck.
That's gonna that's gonna be outbreak house about you know
at home coming. It's like, now that I'm talking to
you about this, Regina, I feel like I feel like
I feel like I need like a strong Southern canonical
playlist of hip hop and and look if you Buck
(25:05):
has to be in there. I mean, there's just so
many elements about that song. It's aggression in the best way.
The nun if you Buck? Why that just that little
line right there. It brings so much joy to me,
But it also erases any kind of you know, like
you were saying about the prestige, like I have a
(25:27):
pH d. I'm a college professival. When I hear that,
come on, I go way back to being in college
not giving the down was like, all right, you know
what I mean for like and it's the same thing,
was like that, I don't, I don't. It doesn't compute,
like it doesn't compute. Oh, you're supposed to be Dr
Bradley when this is on. No, no, no, I'm not
Dr Bradley when this is on. I'm Gina May when
this is on. And they don't necessarily see all the time.
(25:52):
So I'm just gonna put that out there. I also
(26:15):
have to submit that for me, having grown up between
Texas and then as an adult moving to Georgia, that
booty music is also like Southern booty music is a
thing that I honestly feel like if I were in
like the Vatican and for some reason scrub the ground
(26:37):
were to play for some reason in that space, I'm out.
I have to I have to, just really, I have
to first of all, bend down enough to get my
hands on my knees. That's like the first thing I
have to do. And I feel like I don't care
if I'm wearing a blazer and I was at some
work function. It's your fault. You dropped scrubbed the ground.
(27:00):
That's not on me. That's the choice you made, and
I have to do what has to be done when
scrub the ground gets dropped. That's it. I feel the
same way about scrub the ground. I really, I really do.
That is all. I don't even know, you know, treat
the Vatican like the pool palace. And I'm saying, like Pope,
(27:23):
I'm sorry, sir, I'm sorry, but somebody decided. And now
now even you know again megan the stallion effort because
I can't. I can't get down there like I used to. However,
we're gonna try it. I'm gonna try. I can at
least get as far as my hands being on my
knees and shout out to cornbread and biscuits because I
(27:48):
got some extra booty more than I had twenty years ago.
So I bring that into this moment. You know, that's
about where I gotta really stay in that zone. I can't.
I can't literally scrub the ground. I had to just
accept that's the case. Like you're gonna try. You're just
gonna graze the ground maybe or hover hover the ground,
(28:10):
but you're gonna try the effort. The effort. Okay, let's
talk about chronicling stink on you. There's there's like a
couple of things that I want to talk to you
about right here. One of the things I want to
ask you about is your experience going into academia and
really focusing here on not just black culture, but Southern
(28:35):
Black culture. What has that journey been like? Because I
feel like there's been some conversation among my friends who
are in academia about the amount of people who are
teaching black studies that are not black and who are
not really living in this culture acquainted with it. What
was your journey like in going into academia and deciding
(28:59):
I want to represent my people, represent the people I'm from,
represent our language, represent our music. What was that like? Um, so,
just you know, non black folks doing black studies and
stuff like that. I don't have a problem with it
as long as you remember that you're a guest in
this space. Like that's when I that's when we get
ready to throw hands. Is that you have some folks
(29:19):
out here who feel like, well, I can you know,
get you know, like some folks like I can lyrically
do this, this and this, or I can I can
give you all the facts about this particular thing. And
I'm like, but you forget that you are a guest
in this space. You know what I'm saying. Um, But
I mean, it's interesting, man, because when when I actually
(29:42):
I mean, I tell folks like I've been writing Chronic
and Stinkonya since I touched down in all they back
in I feel like, you know what I mean, because
I've been part of the part of the culture. The
culture has been part of me. Um. But it wasn't
until graduate school. I went to Indiana University for graduate
school from my masters, and then I went to Florida
State from PhD. But going to the Midwest was a
wake up call for me and realizing like how southern
(30:05):
I had truly become, you know what I'm saying. So
I was taking a grad seminar with Dr Porsche Maltby,
who is the o G Like, you know, if you
don't talk about black popular music unless you reference Dr Maltzby, right, Um.
And we got to the section on hip hop, and
you know, it was great reading and folks knew what
they were talking about, but I felt isolated from the
(30:28):
conversation because who they were talking about. I wasn't really
listening to like that, you know what I'm saying. Um.
And I asked her about it and she was like,
what are you gonna do about it? And I'm like
at the time, So then you know, I'll keep going
through the studies and I go to go into the
English program, and of course when you think hip hop studies,
(30:49):
you don't necessarily think English. But I want to shout
out my dissertation advisor, Dr David Eicher, because I was
trying to go in one direction. I think I liked
said I wanted to do my dissertation on like, uh,
black women in the church and faith in the South,
and he was like, yeah, okay, right. But then I
took his seminar class, you know, because you gotta take
multiple times to seminars, and I wanted to be African americanists.
(31:12):
So I took his African American Literature seminar and my
final paper in the class was on t I UM,
which actually part of that paper is in the chapter
in the book on t I. So, like I said,
I'm been writing this thing, and I remember, let me
forget it, like he we we had class that went
and then he called me into his office and he
(31:32):
was like, yo, you need to be writing about hip hop.
I'm like, I didn't know that that was a thing,
and he was like, well, we're gonna if we had
to make it a thing. So my dissertation was about
just hip hop in general. But it wasn't until I
couldn't find a job I was adjuncting. I was desperate.
I'm like, you know what, I gonna write about what
I love, which is the South and Southern wrap. Um.
(31:52):
And then that's when the door started opening, so to speak.
You know what I'm saying. Um. When I went to
Harvard on fellowship, it was to work on this book
because I was like, I'm writing about outcasts. When I
got my job, I used, you know, a draft of
a chapter from this book. You know what I'm saying,
So it was like Southern hip hop opened the doors
for me when me trying to check off the bullet
points of being a quote unquote traditional academic. You know
(32:16):
what I'm saying, Um, we're closing doors and slamming doors
in my face. So, you know, when folks asked me
about my connections to outcasts, I mean, like I love
them because they're brilliant, Like they're genius, you know what
I mean. But the other part of it, too is
I feel like me and my work physically and culturally
and spiritually embodied that idea of being outcasted. Right Like now,
(32:37):
I never fit into the academy the way folks have.
I never you know, as a black woman professor. For
a lot of my students, I'm the first black woman
professor they've had. Some students have told me I'm their
first black teacher period, you know what I mean. So
it's like I'm consistently in this place of being outcasted.
But if I'm going to be outcasted, I'm gonna utilize
(32:59):
it to my adventage, you know what I'm saying. So
just being able to speak through that and then coming
out with chronically stankonia, you know, what I'm saying. Um,
I'm still kind of shockgut it out like I would
worked on I felt like I've been working on it
for so long, Like I got contracted for the book
in and it's coming out six years later, you know
(33:20):
what I mean. Um, And I was trying to find
all the ways to talk to myself out of being
crunk about it. I was like, Okay, well, maybe it's
too short, or maybe it's too academic, or maybe I
didn't do this or you know what i mean, like
all of these things. But then I'm just kind of like, well,
I mean, ships out there now, but this this out
there now. And I've just been very very very fortunate
(33:40):
to have. You know, you have the folks who want
to talk outside of the neck, the thumb thugs, you
know what I mean. But for the most part, um
hearing folks be like, you know what, this is the
first time I've actolutely seen myself in a study about
hip hop because I'm Southern. Makes me feel like it
was worth It makes me feel like what I what
I did in the book was accessible enough that it
(34:03):
is academic. Yeah, but also it touches those folks who,
you know, the folks like the folks who are like
who I grew up with, you know what I'm saying.
So yeah, all I say, hopefully ask the questions like
it was needed. I was sick of hearing about New York,
New York and everybody, and and then those folks trying
to use New York to divadate what's going on in
the South. And I'm like, y'all, even that's lazy, you
(34:26):
know what I mean? And I didn't want a lazy
analysis of the South in hip hop. So hopefully Chronicles,
thank Alia, isn't a lazy analysis, you know what I'm saying,
was not was not a lazy analysis to me? Why
I want to I want to ask you about why
is it important in particular for Southern hip hop to
be studied from an academic lens? And I'm curious about
(34:48):
that because I I didn't interview on a podcast a
couple of years ago and the host asked me, do
I consider myself a Southern poet? And no one had
ever asked me that. But then when I sort of
looked back through my work, I'm mean, when you grow
up in the South, when your family roots are here,
even when you're not intending to write from that lens
(35:08):
you just do. There were just certain things that were
showing up in the work, you know, about the soil
and the dirt and some of the food, and the
trees and some of those things, even like in a
random love poem somewhere there's that tree that you remember
from your grandmother's yard or whatever that is. And there
are all those different elements that make up what it
(35:29):
means to be from the South, and then in particular
the other layer of what it means to be black
and Southern. Like I love that that's a part of
your bio y, that you are a daughter of the
Black American South, which I think is important. Why do
you think it's important for Southern hip hop to be
studied from an academic lens? Well, because they try to
make it seem like hip hop is universal, and in
(35:51):
a way it is, but how hip hop is applied
to the culture is not universal. And that's what I
want to make sure that you know. The book comes
across saying, is that hip hop is great. Like I'm
not taking away anything that has happened with hip hop
in New York. I know the New York is the
mecca for hip hop, I get that, but just because
it happens in New York doesn't mean it's gonna take
(36:12):
root and blossom in the same way in Georgia soil
and Alabama soil, in Mississippi soil, the way that it
does in the in the boroughs. You know what I'm saying. Um.
But then I also just was, like I said earlier,
I was just tired of hip hop studies being centered
in this bicoastal idea that hip hop will only exists
on coasts, and I'm like, what about everywhere else? And
(36:33):
in the same beIN I'm like, the way that I
write about the South, I'm hoping and that's where the
end of the book comes in. I'm like, I'm hoping
this opens up the door, like come to the table
and eat. You know what I'm saying, Like I can't
talk about you know, Mississippi or Texas the way that
somebody who's from there can't. You know what I'm saying,
Like it's it's it's important. Um. And then also these
other different regional manifestations of hip hop culture. You know
(36:55):
what I want to know about the Midwest, Like how
is it in you know, Ohio or Detroit and what's
that look like? And how does that pop off? You
know what I'm saying, Like, I want to read from
those perspectives and then put all of that in conversation,
you know what I mean. But unfortunately, right now it's like,
you know, this is the thing with the Academy is
the Academy is so slow. It's always playing, you know
(37:15):
what i mean. Like, you know, outside of the Academy,
thirty years seems like a long time because you know,
we're knocking on the on on the thirtieth anniversary of
Trishia Rosa's Black Noise, right, But I mean in the
Academy that's still helly young. It's almost infantile, you know
what I'm saying. It's like, Okay, if you think about
the long history, what the Academy means, and scholastic inquiry,
(37:37):
and then you have hip hop. Hip hop still extremely
young in the Academy, but to do Southern hip hop
that means we still like in the wounds, you know
what I'm saying. So I'm hoping that this book will
open up doors and open up more conversation to critically
engage the South and also to recognize the stigmas in
(37:59):
the bid is that are associated just with the region itself.
It's not necessarily just with the culture, but it's with
the region itself. Like the South makes people uncomfortable, especially
folks who aren't rooted or invested in the South. Is
the scapegoat, It's the boogeyman, you know what I'm saying.
And because there's that that anxiety about it, then there's
(38:20):
an assumption that the culture reflects those those stigmas in
those anxieties, you know what I'm saying. And then I'm like, well,
that might be part of it, but that's not the
totality of it. So of course you're gonna have racial
violence and racial trauma in the South, but that's not
the totality of what it means to be Southern and
black is to be victimized and trying to find a
way to escape. Like that's what was missing in conversations scholastically,
(38:45):
is that folks will rather, you know, pick up a
rigid right or an Alice Walker and focus on the trauma.
And I'm like, what about the joy gets you through
the trauma? Come on, you know what I'm saying, What
about the joy? What about the music? What out the culture?
What about the the idea that black folks in the
South like community is so important, you know what I'm saying. Like,
(39:07):
you know, when people ask you who your people is,
that itself as an active but one if you come
from a big family, they want to make sure that
you ain't dating nobody in the family. But also like
it's giving folks an idea about where you're from, you
know what I mean. Like it used to get on
my nerves when I was younger if I was dating
a dude and I brought him home to my grandparents,
(39:28):
and my granddad would come. You know, my granddad was
a man of very few words, you know what I mean,
and he would like literally be like, hey, how you doing.
He would you know, judge you on your handshake or not,
you know what I'm saying. And then the next and
media question is, well, who your people is? Because then
because I mean, my grandparents were educators, right, so they
probably knew your people, especially if you were from all Benny,
(39:50):
you know what I mean. Um, But it was also like, oh,
let me see where I can put you at so
that I can see, you know, if you're if you're
worthy enough to date my my granddaughter. But also like
if you worth a grain of salt, period, you know
what I'm saying. So I mean, like all of that,
all of those nuances, all of those sensibilities are often
(40:11):
overlooked or not even recognized in a larger conversation about
hip hop culture in general, and I wanted to use
those to frame why Southern hip hop stands apart um
and why it's needed, why we need to study it,
and also why I'm not the only one who needs
to study it, Like there's this whole highlander thing that's
going on in the academy, you know what I mean.
(40:32):
And I'm like, I don't want to be the only one.
That's a lot of work. That's a lot of pressure,
you know, because that means you need to know everything,
and that's damn it, it's impossible, you know what I'm saying.
I want to be one of the ones, you know
what I mean. So I'm hoping that Chronicles ain't gonia
opens the door. There are a ship ton of new
(40:53):
younger scholars who are still in graduate school, who are
just getting started, who are brilliant, who are thinking about
the South and southernness and how relates to hip hop
and just music and I'm like, use me as the
stepping stone, don't use me as the gatekeeper. You know
what I'm saying. That's what I don't want that. I
don't want to be no gatekeeper. That's that's too much work.
(41:14):
You gotta be better to be gate I mean, you
didn't do this. You the only way I'll be like,
you didn't do this? You know, if you legit just
was lazy with it, then I'll be like, come on, folks,
like this is this. But I mean, if you were
here like legitimately breaking new ground, I don't have nothing
to say. I'd be like, okay, but if you lazy
(41:34):
then okay, Yeah, I might be a little bit of
a gatekeeper, but you know, be I feel like I'm
not a gatekeeper. I feel like I'm a bouncer at
the club gatekeeper. I feel like I want to be there.
Let me be the bouncer at the club. Let me
be like, let's see how you get in. Let me
look at you and your Yeah, who are your friend?
Are they on the list? That's what we need. It's
(41:54):
a bouncer, honey. That's what we need, is a culture bouncer. Regina. Yes,
only the gatekeeper just give me a bouncer. You know
what I'm saying, I live, please like I think this
is this is one of the reasons, and y'all listening,
this is one of the reasons why I think that
your work is so important, because I think it's important
(42:17):
for us to be able to look at and I
think there's lots of layers to this, right, Like when
I was espeosially, when I got to that last section
of your book, when you're sort of expounding upon this
phrase that many of us in the South were just
so exhilarated to here, um that the South, the South
still has something to say, and you'd like added that
(42:38):
still into that phrase that many of us remember watching
on that Award show, Right was Andre three thousand saying
the South got something to say? And I I just
felt like, yeah, wait, do you know? And getting to
the end of your book and you're saying, and that's
still true, the South still has something to say. And
like getting to the end of your book and reading that,
(42:59):
it made hope for two things, Regina. It made me
hope that yes, that we will see more books like yours,
that we will see more of this kind of academic
intellectual analysis of this music and this art, and as
a hip hop culture fan, I want to see more
(43:20):
m c s able to return to where they're from
and let their voices sound like that, and let the
slang of whatever that area is sound like that. Like,
I would love to see that return to hip hop
even more too, because I think that was beautiful for
those of us that were growing up in the nineties.
That was beautiful for us to get to hear that
(43:40):
Snoop doesn't sound the same as you know, A ball
and m j G sound as method Man, sounds as
crucial conflicts, sounded like everybody had sort of this different
way they approached it because they felt like they had
to take their city or their region on their back
and carry it into their music. And just in reading
(44:02):
your analysis and your storytelling here, I was like, Man,
I hope we see a return of that too, you know, yeah,
And I think I think the digital challenge, which is
something that I'm not equipped to write about. This is
why I said I'm trying to kick the door open
for these folks coming up behind me, is that we're
in the era of the digital South. Now, you know
what I'm saying, Like, it's not just physically restricted to
(44:24):
what's going on regionally. I mean, like the region is
accessible by everybody, you know what I'm saying, From the
explosion of trap to an international hip hop genre, to
you know, folks from New York borrowing and and some
folks straight up stealing from from the South. You know
what I'm saying. Um, I think that all of that
is important and how we renegotiate what regional identity means
(44:45):
to the culture. But I will say that, um, the
way that folks represented for where they were from, like
the hyperlocality you know what I'm saying of of region
in the nineties and the early two thousands isn't isn't
really necessary because we got social on media, you know
what I'm saying, Like, it's not like we have to
you know, wait to hear an album to understand like
(45:06):
the super local drops that people giving their music. Now
it's kind of just like, all right, let me go
to Google Earth, let me go on TikTok, let me
see what it actually looks like. Whereas I mean, like
that act of imagining spaces, the way that the imagination
takes root is different because of social media. You know
what I'm saying, and I'm not the one to write
(45:27):
about that because I didn't grow up in a social
media era of Southern rap, you know what I mean.
So that's somebody else's project. Hey, my project, I would
tell you quick. I'd be like, look, I can't talk
about some of these younger folks. Man, Like my cut
off date is like two thousand and eight when I
started my PhD program. I mean, listen, I mean like, listen.
(45:48):
I don't don't be having out here and having me
looking a hot mess. You know what I'm saying. Ask
out because I'm looking at you like now, I can't
you know what I mean. So folks are asking me
about some of the newer folks, I'd be like, I
listened to them in passing, but I'm not to be
able to give you an analysis like I could give
you an analysis about outcast, you know what I mean.
That's somebody else's that's somebody else's career, that's somebody else's
you know, that their work. And I ain't trying to
(46:08):
take that because I can't do it. So no your limits,
no your boundaries, okay. And that's how you open the
door for others because you're like, this is my stuff
that I'm gonna do. You're gonna come here. Regina, thank
you so much for joining me on the podcast talking
(46:28):
to us about all this Southern hip hop. I hope
y'all were taking all the notes so that y'all can
number one by a few copies of this book. You know,
just five is a good number. You could go to
your favorite independent bookseller. By five of them. You got one,
Then you got four that you could give to somebody.
(46:49):
It's like a gift. Okay, work on that, and then
you can listen to this music, so while you're reading
the book you can be educated. But Regina, thank you
for this work you are doing, for for shining a
light on the South and on hip hop culture here.
For for even just hearing your voice and like the
(47:09):
southernness and your voice and in your writing in your book.
That gives a lot of joy to those of us
who are from down here. So thank you so much.
That means that I did my job. I really, you know,
the South still got something to say, and I just
hope that it is that folks realize that we're talking
to each other. You know what I'm saying, And that's
that's what it was. Equally important, Like I didn't know
(47:31):
this one thing. I was very clear about it. I mean,
I know I had to write somewhat academically, but I
didn't want it to be the totality of what I
was saying. And and it seems like I struck a
good enough balance that we can have conversations like this,
you know what I mean, because either are the type
of conversations that I want to have about the work,
you know what I mean. So I so thank you
for the opportunity to chop it up with you and
(47:52):
and and laugh, and I mean, like all of that
is part of Southern hip hop too, you know what
I'm saying. So just just thank you for the opportunity
as well. Thank you again so much to Dr Regina
Bradley for joining me and bringing intellectual conversation about Southern
hip hop to the table. I'm just sorry that she
(48:14):
and I could not have had biscuits, which probably would
have been one of our southern dishes of choice had
we literally been in her living room together. You can
learn more about Dr Bradley's work at her website, Red
clay scholar dot com. You can also follow Regina on
Twitter at red Clay Scholar. And if you forget all
(48:38):
this stuff that I just said, remember you can go
to Amina Brown dot com slash her with Amina. The
show notes are there with links to some of this
music as well as links to check out more of
Dr Regina Bradley's work. And if you aren't following me
on social media on Twitter and Instagram at Amina b E,
(49:00):
you should go follow Let's Be Friends for this week's
edition of Give Her a Crown. And in honor of
our conversation in this episode about Southern hip hop, I
want to shout out one of my favorite rappers from
the South. Grammy Award winning hip hop artist, Rhapsody. Born
and raised in North Carolina, Rhapsodies rap career has been
(49:20):
on the rise for many years right now. My favorite
album of hers is her latest album Eve, and my
favorite song from the album is Whoopee, where she raps
over a sample of one of my favorite jazz songs
Watermelon Man by Herbie Hancock. Each of the songs on
Eve are named for a black woman hero of Rhapsodies,
(49:41):
you should definitely give this a listen. Rhapsody, thank you
for bringing your southernness, your storytelling, and for honoring hip
hop culture through your Music, Rhapsody, Give Her a Crown?
H Her What Amina Brown is produced by Matt Owen
(50:09):
for Slografity Productions as a part of the Seneca Women
Podcast Network in partnership with I Heart Radio. Thanks for
listening and don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review the
podcast
Welcome back to this week's episode of Her with Amina Brown,
and I am all in my like Southern girl feelings
today because we're we're talking about Southern hip hop today
with Assistant Professor of English and Africa and Diaspora Studies
at Kinnesa State University, writer researcher, daughter of the Black
(00:53):
American South, author of chronicling Stink Oya the Rise of
the Hip Hop South. Let's welcome them, Dr Regina Bradley
to the her living room. What's going long? I take
all applause all over, Okay, I'm giving it to you
because there should be thousands of people here, you know,
(01:14):
with us that would have been clapping. They're listening. You know,
they're listening, but since they can't clap for us right now,
I'm I'm here using these two hands to help that. Y'all.
Let me know what they say. Three are gathered okay, okay, okay,
and and we're here and my husband and producer Key here.
That's three of us. There's two three of us who
(01:36):
we're here. That's it. That's it, that's it. I'm so
excited to have Dr Regina Bradley here in our her
living room because I have been following her on Twitter
for a long time. I cannot remember who it was.
It was another black woman a couple of years ago
that was like, y'all need to go follow like told
(01:56):
a bunch of us to follow you. That's when I
started following you a couple of years ago. And then
when I saw you talking about your book Chronicling Stankonia,
I was like, I am in desperate need of having
her on this podcast. So thank you for agreeing to this. Okay,
So I need to start with some basic facts and
just let me tell you I have grown up mostly
(02:16):
in the South. I moved around a lot as a kid,
but I basically lived between Texas and the South and
Texas people listening, Texas is not the South, and we
love you, okay, we love you. We're started off early
with violence. We love your Texas. Like Texas is its
own place if y'all live there, y'all know what I mean,
(02:37):
because I I went to high school in Texas, junior
high and high school actually, and it has Southern things,
but it's its own place, Okay. So like I lived
in Texas and then just different parts of the South
and Georgia. Obviously, I've been here over twenty years now.
But my people people are from North Carolina. So when
I moved to Atlanta for college, I had a friend
(02:58):
that went to Clark, Atlanta that was from where you
grew up in Georgia. Now I pronounced that Albany. When
I first saw it. I was like, Okay, you're from Albany, Georgia.
And he was like, that's not where I'm from. He
was like, I'm from all Benny. Okay, that's how he
(03:21):
told me to say it. Can you can you discuss
why it's important to make sure that we don't pronounce Albany,
New York the same as All Benny, Georgia. Just discussed
for the people. I mean, I'm just saying, your red clay,
your water, your blues ain't like ours, you know what
I'm saying. So Albany, Albany is very Northeastern, you know
(03:49):
what I'm saying. It's our sister city. But I mean,
I just get excited when I'd be like, hey, hey, folks,
are you from Yeah, I from Albany. I'm I outside
raised over here. Okay, it's just different. It's just different.
I feel like the ancestors living your voice when you
(04:10):
say all, Benny, you know, it comes little triumph, the
chili dogs, all of it. I need everything about this.
Can you also explain to people because I feel like
for a lot of people that have either never been
to Georgia or aren't familiar with the state. For a
lot of people, Atlanta is Georgia and they just that's
that's everything. But Atlanta is not Georgia. There are just
(04:33):
many other cities, communities, and other layers of Southern culture
going on outside of the city of Atlanta. So can
you talk about what's the difference between growing up in
all beany versus versus what it is like to be
in Atlanta. First of all, Atlanta might as well be
its own state within the state, you know what I mean,
(04:54):
Because the perimeter is its own thing, you know what
I mean. It's contained in its own physical space. I
mean like it literally has two eighty five to to
surround it, the circumference of the city, you know what
I mean. But once you go ot p outside the perimeter,
you know what I mean, that's when you get quote
(05:14):
unquote real Georgia, you know what I mean, Like so
many of us. I mean, it's interesting because Atlanta, for
for folks like me who grew up outside of the perimeter.
It's it's like how folks think about New York, you
know what I mean, Like when you want to get
away from from from home and you want to be successful,
you go to a louta, right, you know what I mean.
It's closing up to home. If something goes down, you
(05:35):
can be like, all right, I'm gonna just hop all
seventy five and come back. But it's big enough that
falks are like, oh, you live in Atlanta, and folks
don't judge you. You don't like, yeah, I'm in Atlanta, right.
But it's important because this is something I kind of
talked about in the book too, is is that you know,
the South isn't a monelith. And what that means is,
you know, how I came up in Georgia is different
than somebody in Mississippi or Alabama. But even within the state,
(05:57):
how I came up in southwest Georgia, which is I mean,
all benis is a you know, the Benny is a
small city so to speak, but it ain't nowhere in
near Atlanta size, but you know it's it's small, small town,
rural Georgia. So like fields and and you know, ship
closed on Sunday at four o'clock. You know what I'm saying,
Like everything closed for Chuch. You know what I'm saying. Um,
(06:19):
it's different than Atlanta as this urban hub, you know
what I'm saying. So it's important to kind of recognize
that because it translates one way in the Aid, doesn't
mean it's gonna translate the same way in the Benny
or in way Cross or in Savannah. So I mean,
like it's just it's just important to let folks like
have their own flavor and do their own thing. But unfortunately,
because Atlanta is so internationally known and folks, that's what
(06:41):
folks gravitate towards, you know what I mean. Like, you
don't hear nobody being like, yeah, I'm going on vacation
to Oscilla. No offense to people from Oscilla, you know
what I mean. I'm just saying, like, it's that's not
that's not like at the top of the list. It's no,
I'm going on vacation to Atlanta, you know what I'm saying.
So it's just important to kind of recognize, you know,
everybody has their own flavor, even within the state. So
(07:02):
all that to say, yeah, the benny is definitely different
than a with a little at We love to see that. Okay,
first of all, it touches me that you have written
this book, and y'all that are listening that are just
about to go to your bookseller and buy five copies
(07:24):
of this book. This book is so important. Please and
buy Indy while you added, I'm telling you your favorite
book seller, but your favorite book seller should be in Dye.
So work on that, do that and buy five copies
at the time. What I love about this book is
it it's a read for people who are hip hop
connoisseurs who enjoy hip hop culture and music, but that
(07:47):
it's also something that can be used as a textbook,
right that there could be people studying this in a classroom.
So I want to talk about the first time that
you can remember hearing Outcasts music. And I'll tell you
what my first time was. I know that I was
in high school and there was like a little kind
(08:08):
of like a concrete bench of some kind that was
in sort of the courtyard of our school where everybody
hung out. And I had a friend Chris, who also
you know, wrapped on the side as many of us
did at this era of time, and I remember him
freaking out about having heard this verse that opens with
(08:28):
is the m my crooked letter? Right? And as he
was saying the words to us, he sang the words
to us. I hadn't even heard the song myself. Actually,
first he said the words to us, because we were
all like studying hip hop a lot, trying to wrap
you know, this was before I realized that I can
really rapping one's gonna be for me and I need
to become a poet. But I was still, you know,
(08:49):
trying at this time. And so because he mentioned it
to us, then you know, we all had to go
home and try to see how we could find this
music and listen to it and hearing there, I mean,
still it still touches me when I hear their music today,
hearing how distinctly Southern their voices were on that music.
(09:11):
So what was your first time your first memory of
hearing this music from Outcast? The Martin episode of Players Ball.
That was my very first memory of hearing Outcasts, And
it was right at the end, so I was like, oh, so,
I mean like yeah, I mean like I'm still well,
I still feel like I'm still kind of yo. But
it was like right before bedtime, so to speak, you
(09:32):
know what I'm saying, Like it was like, yeah, okay,
you get this last little minute of Martin and it's
time if you go to bed. Um. But my first
for like my first for real, for real time, Like
what you're talking about is definitely um on goody months
black ice, you know, because I mean, like I talked
about that in the book too. But it was just
like you know, friends, Romans, Country, Ma and meyr there drums.
(09:53):
It was a beautiful day off in the neighborhood. I
was like, what neighborhood we're going to? What? Why is
it so beautiful? You know what I'm saying? What okay, okay,
tell me everything. I just remember just like I remember
like classmates and friends, you know what I'm saying, just
randomly throwing out outcast lyrics, going to going down the hall.
But you know what I'm saying. It was like for
(10:15):
me coming from Northern Virginia, where outcasts it was only
a word in the dictionary at the time. Like I
don't remember listening to outcasts like that when I was
in the Northern Virginia. I was in Alexandria, Fort Bellboy
because military brat, you know what I'm like, Yeah, you know,
so when I come South, I'm in my mind, I'm
thinking everybody listens to the same kind of hip hop,
(10:37):
you know what I'm saying. So I'm like, all right,
so if I'm listening to you know, bad Boy and
Busta Rhymes and Wu Tang and all the folks who
were on the radio in the d n V, well,
of course that's what they're listening to in small ass,
rural ass Southwest Georgia. And then I get down there
trying to, you know, connect classmates and like, shouty, now
(11:02):
we don't we don't that when they ain't who were
listening to? No? For real? Ain't? Like I remember this
one dude. He was asking like what I had on
my little mix tapes because you know that was a currency,
you know what I mean, like passing, passing and share
mixtapes and and and dude was like, shouty with this deal?
What who? Who? This is like you ain't listening to
(11:25):
nobody out of the he ain't listening to no. I
mean like he was just laming off all of these
Southern folks. You g K eight following m J. G
three six Mafia, you know what I'm saying. And I'm
just kind of like I'm the new kid, So that
gave me some kind of at least some kind of advantage.
But then when they were like showing the listening to
our music, that just put me in a whole different hole,
(11:46):
so to speak. So I had to dig myself up
out the whole. So of course I'm listening to well
at the time it was hot one or six point one.
It ain't there, no war, and also ninety six point three,
which is still there. And I'm like taking notes and
making new mixtapes because I'm like, if I die now,
there's no coming back from this social death. When I
started high school, enjoying something rob became a life of
(12:08):
death situation for a freshman, and in't coming freshman to
high school, you know what I'm saying. Who can't write
about nothing? So yeah, and I just remember like how
my mixtapes changed over time. It was like, okay, so
I remember on the one I brought from d C.
It was like I think I had White Clefts John
on there, there was bad Boy on there, and then
it like abruptly cuts off to tear the club but
(12:33):
and like MASTERP you know what I'm saying, And I'm like, yeah,
you can kind of tell this is when your girl transitioned,
right right. I Mean, one of the things that I
really love about just this era of hip hop, you know,
especially those first couple of albums of Outcasts, is that
(12:53):
hip hop had so much of a regional element then,
you know, Like I remember being in Texas and I
grew up in San Antonio, Texas, which was kind of
like I mean, because my parents were in the military too,
so that's what moved us to San Antonio. But being
in a city like that where a lot of people
were kind of in and out as a very transient place,
it was sort of like we didn't really know our
(13:14):
hip hop identity all the way because we didn't have
any m c s from there then, but we did
have DJ screw from that area around like sort of
Southern Texas time, and so I remember living there and
there being a very specific Texas sort of hip hop sound.
And then when I moved to Atlanta for college, I
(13:36):
moved here for college in so that was the year
that a Quim and I came out, and if you
were driving by anybody's dorm rooms, apartments, you know, everybody's
windows open playing that record, And I think that was
really the first time that I got to experience what
a cultural shift a group like Outcast was bringing. I mean,
(14:00):
still Rosa Parks as a song, it's still a very
life changing situation with me. Just the middle of that song,
with this fiddle cold down, just just the the nerve
to put that in the middle of a hip hop song,
I was like, whatever this is, I really need this,
you know. So I I love to hear about that
(14:23):
because I think for us trying to be rappers, those
of us who try in the late nineties, we were
emulating New York because that's you know, at the time
where it was like, that's the sound you need to
have or keep. Then to start hearing what the South
was doing with hip hop gave you all this other
stuff you could be doing with how you rap, with
(14:46):
how you produce all of that. So, Okay, the other
thing I want to ask you about is we're people
talking about Kilo Ali when you were girling? Can can
you discuss Kilo Ali with me? Because when I moved
here to Atlanta, Georgia, and I would ask people as
you did, back then, you you're one of your first
questions you brought this up. One of your first questions
(15:08):
to people is like, well, what's what would rap you
listening to? Like, who's your favorite rapper? People that are
born and raised Atlanta were like Kilo Ali And I
was like, who is that at all? And people who
are born to race here, not people who moved here
(15:31):
to get a job. People who born a race here,
they were children here. They were like, it's Kilo Ali
for me. Can you discuss the importance of Kilo in
the southern hip hop conversation? Well? Yeah, I mean Kilo
Ailie and was one of the earliest introductions to hip
(15:51):
hop sound originating in Atlanta. That's I mean, that's the
best way to put it, you know what I'm saying.
So when he comes out with you know, cocaine in
like n you know what I mean, before we had
trapped music, we had Kilo Ali. You know what I'm saying. Um,
And then there's also you know when my first introduction
(16:13):
to Kilo Ali was baby Baby. You know what I'm saying,
Like I need your l O V. You know, baby Baby.
I was like, Okay. Then I heard you know, boom
in my car. You know what I'm saying, Uh, show
me love all of these you know what, all of
these things. So I mean like he is an architect
for Atlanta. Sound you know what I mean. You can't
talk about Atlanta obviously, can't talk about Atlanta without organized noise, right,
(16:38):
but you also can't talk about Atlanta without like Kilo
Ali Rahine the dream. You know what I'm saying, Like
these these folks who were taking what they saw going
on in Atlanta, how they grew up in these communities
in Atlanta and putting that on wax and in ways
that folks weren't really checking for. You know what I'm saying.
So I get it. You know what I mean. If
you really from the A, you you're like Keilo's gonna
(16:59):
be at the top of your be at least at minimum,
in your top three at minimum, you know what I'm saying. So, yeah,
I get it. I get it. I had to go that.
That was my moment of moving here to Georgia and
having to get educated when the people were like, it's
Kilo Ali. And I think at the moment, Regina, I
(17:19):
didn't even want to be like, I don't know who
that is. I was just like, oh yeah, word, yeah,
has to go home and figure out, like, yeah, you
don't want to be called out. He's like, but then
you like you get back to the room where you'd
be like, okay, hold up, let me what are they
talking about? Let me go when I'm streaming back. Then
you literally just sit down at the radio and be like, Okay,
(17:40):
I'm ready. Let me wait till they dropped this Keilo
song so I can know what they're talking about. Drop
it though you knew they were gonna drop it around
like nine o'clock because like in all many they had
the Dirty South Hour, like the Bootshake Hour, so that
was like from like nine to ten. So ke gonna
show up at least one time in the mix, you
(18:01):
know what I mean. And if that's your one thing,
you better use the hell out of be like, yeah,
I know what you're talking. You better know a verbatim. Okay,
you gotta be ready next time. You can't just be
out here to go. You can't be out here not knowing. Okay,
you brought up what is a very important question among
hip hop heads. We normally trade what what is? What
(18:21):
would we say are our top five m c s
I want to narrow that question and ask you, what
do you feel are five Southern hip hop quintessential songs?
Like if you could think of five Southern hip hop
songs that you feel like these are essential to the cannon.
If you're entering the conversation, you need to at least
(18:46):
know these. What would you say are those top five songs?
It's hard to it's hard to name. I hate this question.
You can't say this question just give you feel like
it changes. I'm talking. Somebody asked me this question. Okay,
today today I feel like you g K. Pocket full
of Stones is important. Three Mafia to the club up
(19:08):
is important. Elevators by outcast is important. Trying to make
sure I hit all the areas, so to speak, back
that ass up is canonical. It's not a lie. It's
not a lie. I guess because I'm from Georgia and
Atlanta has such an influence on me. I'm going back
(19:30):
to Atlanta with this one. But I feel like cool
Breeze watch for the Hook so important. M but also
put three six Mafia's Late Night Tip in that conversation
because gangster boogles all the way off. But those are
the ones that need to come of mind today today.
That's right. So if you're if your audience is like
Dr Bradley, you disappoint me. I'm like, listen, this changes
(19:53):
every time somebody asked me this question. But today that's
who I'm going with. That's what I'm going with today.
I respect these choices right here because I feel like
you gave us a good amount of breadth. You know,
you gave us some places to go. And I mean,
you know, you brought up gangster. But I was like, Okay,
when we're done with this interview, I'm gonna have to
(20:13):
go revisit that real. Listen to her, she she led
a game quite flat on Late Night till I'm just
kind of like, oh wow, right, But I mean, like,
regardless of what day, back to that, sup though. It's
gonna be on my top five. So okay, it changed
my life. It changed my life because I was at
the little home come and dance, you know what I'm saying,
and um, you know, we're still whiling about okay, but
(20:37):
then you know, folks dancing and then all of a sudden,
DJ just kind of drops out the little music, you
know what I mean, He's doing his little talking thing,
boom boom boom, and then all of a sudden you
hear the beginning of back of That, and folks are
just looking at each other like what what? And we
were like, play that bad? And I couldn't really because
(21:00):
it was high school, right, But when it played it
in college, I have my cup. I have a little
solo cup, you know what I'm saying. I have a
little secret drinking there. And you know you'll be making
your final rounds. You'd be like, all right, then I'm
see y'all wood woo, and then you hear it come
on and you're like, you know what, I got one
more in me? Okay, I got one more dance in me.
(21:22):
I got I got one more, one more dance in me.
You know what I'm saying. So it's gonna forever, you know.
And I'm thirty seven now and I ain't got no
Megan the stall your knees, you know what I'm saying.
It's not, but I'm gonna. I'm gonna give you a
Megan the Stallion effort. Whenever I hear this is what
I respect, but this is what we need. I'm making
(21:43):
these Stallion efforts. Okay, I'm gonna get the effort. I'm
gonna give you the effort. Now my husband might have
to pick me up what he has had to do
in the past, you know, Mr Bradley. But you know
I'm gonna pretend like it's backing on the A nine
in nine and I'm pretending like we tell can know
it for the two thousand's, like I still got sixteen, seventeen,
twenty year old knees. You know what I mean. Give
(22:06):
you the effort. That's the one song you will always
get the effort out of Regina's. I feel inspired by this.
This is what I this is what I aspired to,
is the making these stallion effort. That's all I have.
I also, I want to echo your sentiments about back
that ass up because the last time I went to
(22:27):
my college reunion, I graduated from Spellman, So we were
doing the Spellman moor House tailgate, which is wild. It's
wild time, Okay. So the last time I went out there,
they had a DJ on the Spellman side, and there's
always like a few older alumni who are there that
are like twenty, some of them thirty years older than us.
(22:48):
So when the DJ on their side drops like brick House,
all decorum is over, it's done. They're just there's just
hips and booty all over the place. And my girlfriend
looked at me when we were at home coming the
last time before the pandemic. She turned to me and
she said, you know that in several years, this is
(23:12):
us to back that asset. That's exactly what the song
is too, because I feel that, I feel that, and
this pengita is messing us all because I miss home coming,
like there's no home coming like HBCU home comes. I
don't you know what I mean. Like I took my
daughter to Virginia State home coming in twenty nineteen, right,
(23:33):
and she was looking at me crazy because I didn't
go to Virginia State. My cousin went to Virginia State.
So it was like, you know, I ain't really know nobody,
but because I knew my cousin, of course, and then
I'm also Greek, you know what I'm saying. So it
was like I got the float and my daughter was like, Mom,
do you know these people? I'm like no, And that's
the point. That's the point that we can turn up.
(23:56):
We can turn up. So I agree with you. I'm
gonna be fifty six years old and and somebody gonna
be like, what you know about this? And then it's
gonna be these younger folks gonna come up in there
and we're gonna push the younger folks out the way
and be like, move this is not for you. But
also add nuck if you buck to that. I speak
a word today about nuck. If you buck, it's it's real.
(24:19):
I'd be like, I see like younger. I'm like, I
see like because I'm I'm an ak area, so I
feel like the younger stories kind of like run out there.
I see like the younger alpha's run out there. And
then like in my age, I'm like, move, move out
to a now, move move that ain't for you, y'all
in this whistle alphas, I'll be ready to fight. I'm like,
where did the whistle come from? There's no whistle, but anyway,
(24:42):
but yeah, back of ass up and get you buck.
That's gonna that's gonna be outbreak house about you know
at home coming. It's like, now that I'm talking to
you about this, Regina, I feel like I feel like
I feel like I need like a strong Southern canonical
playlist of hip hop and and look if you Buck
(25:05):
has to be in there. I mean, there's just so
many elements about that song. It's aggression in the best way.
The nun if you Buck? Why that just that little
line right there. It brings so much joy to me,
But it also erases any kind of you know, like
you were saying about the prestige, like I have a
(25:27):
pH d. I'm a college professival. When I hear that,
come on, I go way back to being in college
not giving the down was like, all right, you know
what I mean for like and it's the same thing,
was like that, I don't, I don't. It doesn't compute,
like it doesn't compute. Oh, you're supposed to be Dr
Bradley when this is on. No, no, no, I'm not
Dr Bradley when this is on. I'm Gina May when
this is on. And they don't necessarily see all the time.
(25:52):
So I'm just gonna put that out there. I also
(26:15):
have to submit that for me, having grown up between
Texas and then as an adult moving to Georgia, that
booty music is also like Southern booty music is a
thing that I honestly feel like if I were in
like the Vatican and for some reason scrub the ground
(26:37):
were to play for some reason in that space, I'm out.
I have to I have to, just really, I have
to first of all, bend down enough to get my
hands on my knees. That's like the first thing I
have to do. And I feel like I don't care
if I'm wearing a blazer and I was at some
work function. It's your fault. You dropped scrubbed the ground.
(27:00):
That's not on me. That's the choice you made, and
I have to do what has to be done when
scrub the ground gets dropped. That's it. I feel the
same way about scrub the ground. I really, I really do.
That is all. I don't even know, you know, treat
the Vatican like the pool palace. And I'm saying, like Pope,
(27:23):
I'm sorry, sir, I'm sorry, but somebody decided. And now
now even you know again megan the stallion effort because
I can't. I can't get down there like I used to. However,
we're gonna try it. I'm gonna try. I can at
least get as far as my hands being on my
knees and shout out to cornbread and biscuits because I
(27:48):
got some extra booty more than I had twenty years ago.
So I bring that into this moment. You know, that's
about where I gotta really stay in that zone. I can't.
I can't literally scrub the ground. I had to just
accept that's the case. Like you're gonna try. You're just
gonna graze the ground maybe or hover hover the ground,
(28:10):
but you're gonna try the effort. The effort. Okay, let's
talk about chronicling stink on you. There's there's like a
couple of things that I want to talk to you
about right here. One of the things I want to
ask you about is your experience going into academia and
really focusing here on not just black culture, but Southern
(28:35):
Black culture. What has that journey been like? Because I
feel like there's been some conversation among my friends who
are in academia about the amount of people who are
teaching black studies that are not black and who are
not really living in this culture acquainted with it. What
was your journey like in going into academia and deciding
(28:59):
I want to represent my people, represent the people I'm from,
represent our language, represent our music. What was that like? Um, so,
just you know, non black folks doing black studies and
stuff like that. I don't have a problem with it
as long as you remember that you're a guest in
this space. Like that's when I that's when we get
ready to throw hands. Is that you have some folks
(29:19):
out here who feel like, well, I can you know,
get you know, like some folks like I can lyrically
do this, this and this, or I can I can
give you all the facts about this particular thing. And
I'm like, but you forget that you are a guest
in this space. You know what I'm saying. Um, But
I mean, it's interesting, man, because when when I actually
(29:42):
I mean, I tell folks like I've been writing Chronic
and Stinkonya since I touched down in all they back
in I feel like, you know what I mean, because
I've been part of the part of the culture. The
culture has been part of me. Um. But it wasn't
until graduate school. I went to Indiana University for graduate
school from my masters, and then I went to Florida
State from PhD. But going to the Midwest was a
wake up call for me and realizing like how southern
(30:05):
I had truly become, you know what I'm saying. So
I was taking a grad seminar with Dr Porsche Maltby,
who is the o G Like, you know, if you
don't talk about black popular music unless you reference Dr Maltzby, right, Um.
And we got to the section on hip hop, and
you know, it was great reading and folks knew what
they were talking about, but I felt isolated from the
(30:28):
conversation because who they were talking about. I wasn't really
listening to like that, you know what I'm saying. Um.
And I asked her about it and she was like,
what are you gonna do about it? And I'm like
at the time, So then you know, I'll keep going
through the studies and I go to go into the
English program, and of course when you think hip hop studies,
(30:49):
you don't necessarily think English. But I want to shout
out my dissertation advisor, Dr David Eicher, because I was
trying to go in one direction. I think I liked
said I wanted to do my dissertation on like, uh,
black women in the church and faith in the South,
and he was like, yeah, okay, right. But then I
took his seminar class, you know, because you gotta take
multiple times to seminars, and I wanted to be African americanists.
(31:12):
So I took his African American Literature seminar and my
final paper in the class was on t I UM,
which actually part of that paper is in the chapter
in the book on t I. So, like I said,
I'm been writing this thing, and I remember, let me
forget it, like he we we had class that went
and then he called me into his office and he
(31:32):
was like, yo, you need to be writing about hip hop.
I'm like, I didn't know that that was a thing,
and he was like, well, we're gonna if we had
to make it a thing. So my dissertation was about
just hip hop in general. But it wasn't until I
couldn't find a job I was adjuncting. I was desperate.
I'm like, you know what, I gonna write about what
I love, which is the South and Southern wrap. Um.
(31:52):
And then that's when the door started opening, so to speak.
You know what I'm saying. Um. When I went to
Harvard on fellowship, it was to work on this book
because I was like, I'm writing about outcasts. When I
got my job, I used, you know, a draft of
a chapter from this book. You know what I'm saying,
So it was like Southern hip hop opened the doors
for me when me trying to check off the bullet
points of being a quote unquote traditional academic. You know
(32:16):
what I'm saying, Um, we're closing doors and slamming doors
in my face. So, you know, when folks asked me
about my connections to outcasts, I mean, like I love
them because they're brilliant, Like they're genius, you know what
I mean. But the other part of it, too is
I feel like me and my work physically and culturally
and spiritually embodied that idea of being outcasted. Right Like now,
(32:37):
I never fit into the academy the way folks have.
I never you know, as a black woman professor. For
a lot of my students, I'm the first black woman
professor they've had. Some students have told me I'm their
first black teacher period, you know what I mean. So
it's like I'm consistently in this place of being outcasted.
But if I'm going to be outcasted, I'm gonna utilize
(32:59):
it to my adventage, you know what I'm saying. So
just being able to speak through that and then coming
out with chronically stankonia, you know, what I'm saying. Um,
I'm still kind of shockgut it out like I would
worked on I felt like I've been working on it
for so long, Like I got contracted for the book
in and it's coming out six years later, you know
(33:20):
what I mean. Um, And I was trying to find
all the ways to talk to myself out of being
crunk about it. I was like, Okay, well, maybe it's
too short, or maybe it's too academic, or maybe I
didn't do this or you know what i mean, like
all of these things. But then I'm just kind of like, well,
I mean, ships out there now, but this this out
there now. And I've just been very very very fortunate
(33:40):
to have. You know, you have the folks who want
to talk outside of the neck, the thumb thugs, you
know what I mean. But for the most part, um
hearing folks be like, you know what, this is the
first time I've actolutely seen myself in a study about
hip hop because I'm Southern. Makes me feel like it
was worth It makes me feel like what I what
I did in the book was accessible enough that it
(34:03):
is academic. Yeah, but also it touches those folks who,
you know, the folks like the folks who are like
who I grew up with, you know what I'm saying.
So yeah, all I say, hopefully ask the questions like
it was needed. I was sick of hearing about New York,
New York and everybody, and and then those folks trying
to use New York to divadate what's going on in
the South. And I'm like, y'all, even that's lazy, you
(34:26):
know what I mean? And I didn't want a lazy
analysis of the South in hip hop. So hopefully Chronicles,
thank Alia, isn't a lazy analysis, you know what I'm saying,
was not was not a lazy analysis to me? Why
I want to I want to ask you about why
is it important in particular for Southern hip hop to
be studied from an academic lens? And I'm curious about
(34:48):
that because I I didn't interview on a podcast a
couple of years ago and the host asked me, do
I consider myself a Southern poet? And no one had
ever asked me that. But then when I sort of
looked back through my work, I'm mean, when you grow
up in the South, when your family roots are here,
even when you're not intending to write from that lens
(35:08):
you just do. There were just certain things that were
showing up in the work, you know, about the soil
and the dirt and some of the food, and the
trees and some of those things, even like in a
random love poem somewhere there's that tree that you remember
from your grandmother's yard or whatever that is. And there
are all those different elements that make up what it
(35:29):
means to be from the South, and then in particular
the other layer of what it means to be black
and Southern. Like I love that that's a part of
your bio y, that you are a daughter of the
Black American South, which I think is important. Why do
you think it's important for Southern hip hop to be
studied from an academic lens? Well, because they try to
make it seem like hip hop is universal, and in
(35:51):
a way it is, but how hip hop is applied
to the culture is not universal. And that's what I
want to make sure that you know. The book comes
across saying, is that hip hop is great. Like I'm
not taking away anything that has happened with hip hop
in New York. I know the New York is the
mecca for hip hop, I get that, but just because
it happens in New York doesn't mean it's gonna take
(36:12):
root and blossom in the same way in Georgia soil
and Alabama soil, in Mississippi soil, the way that it
does in the in the boroughs. You know what I'm saying. Um.
But then I also just was, like I said earlier,
I was just tired of hip hop studies being centered
in this bicoastal idea that hip hop will only exists
on coasts, and I'm like, what about everywhere else? And
(36:33):
in the same beIN I'm like, the way that I
write about the South, I'm hoping and that's where the
end of the book comes in. I'm like, I'm hoping
this opens up the door, like come to the table
and eat. You know what I'm saying, Like I can't
talk about you know, Mississippi or Texas the way that
somebody who's from there can't. You know what I'm saying,
Like it's it's it's important. Um. And then also these
other different regional manifestations of hip hop culture. You know
(36:55):
what I want to know about the Midwest, Like how
is it in you know, Ohio or Detroit and what's
that look like? And how does that pop off? You
know what I'm saying, Like, I want to read from
those perspectives and then put all of that in conversation,
you know what I mean. But unfortunately, right now it's like,
you know, this is the thing with the Academy is
the Academy is so slow. It's always playing, you know
(37:15):
what i mean. Like, you know, outside of the Academy,
thirty years seems like a long time because you know,
we're knocking on the on on the thirtieth anniversary of
Trishia Rosa's Black Noise, right, But I mean in the
Academy that's still helly young. It's almost infantile, you know
what I'm saying. It's like, Okay, if you think about
the long history, what the Academy means, and scholastic inquiry,
(37:37):
and then you have hip hop. Hip hop still extremely
young in the Academy, but to do Southern hip hop
that means we still like in the wounds, you know
what I'm saying. So I'm hoping that this book will
open up doors and open up more conversation to critically
engage the South and also to recognize the stigmas in
(37:59):
the bid is that are associated just with the region itself.
It's not necessarily just with the culture, but it's with
the region itself. Like the South makes people uncomfortable, especially
folks who aren't rooted or invested in the South. Is
the scapegoat, It's the boogeyman, you know what I'm saying.
And because there's that that anxiety about it, then there's
(38:20):
an assumption that the culture reflects those those stigmas in
those anxieties, you know what I'm saying. And then I'm like, well,
that might be part of it, but that's not the
totality of it. So of course you're gonna have racial
violence and racial trauma in the South, but that's not
the totality of what it means to be Southern and
black is to be victimized and trying to find a
way to escape. Like that's what was missing in conversations scholastically,
(38:45):
is that folks will rather, you know, pick up a
rigid right or an Alice Walker and focus on the trauma.
And I'm like, what about the joy gets you through
the trauma? Come on, you know what I'm saying, What
about the joy? What about the music? What out the culture?
What about the the idea that black folks in the
South like community is so important, you know what I'm saying. Like,
(39:07):
you know, when people ask you who your people is,
that itself as an active but one if you come
from a big family, they want to make sure that
you ain't dating nobody in the family. But also like
it's giving folks an idea about where you're from, you
know what I mean. Like it used to get on
my nerves when I was younger if I was dating
a dude and I brought him home to my grandparents,
(39:28):
and my granddad would come. You know, my granddad was
a man of very few words, you know what I mean,
and he would like literally be like, hey, how you doing.
He would you know, judge you on your handshake or not,
you know what I'm saying. And then the next and
media question is, well, who your people is? Because then
because I mean, my grandparents were educators, right, so they
probably knew your people, especially if you were from all Benny,
(39:50):
you know what I mean. Um, But it was also like, oh,
let me see where I can put you at so
that I can see, you know, if you're if you're
worthy enough to date my my granddaughter. But also like
if you worth a grain of salt, period, you know
what I'm saying. So I mean, like all of that,
all of those nuances, all of those sensibilities are often
(40:11):
overlooked or not even recognized in a larger conversation about
hip hop culture in general, and I wanted to use
those to frame why Southern hip hop stands apart um
and why it's needed, why we need to study it,
and also why I'm not the only one who needs
to study it, Like there's this whole highlander thing that's
going on in the academy, you know what I mean.
(40:32):
And I'm like, I don't want to be the only one.
That's a lot of work. That's a lot of pressure,
you know, because that means you need to know everything,
and that's damn it, it's impossible, you know what I'm saying.
I want to be one of the ones, you know
what I mean. So I'm hoping that Chronicles ain't gonia
opens the door. There are a ship ton of new
(40:53):
younger scholars who are still in graduate school, who are
just getting started, who are brilliant, who are thinking about
the South and southernness and how relates to hip hop
and just music and I'm like, use me as the
stepping stone, don't use me as the gatekeeper. You know
what I'm saying. That's what I don't want that. I
don't want to be no gatekeeper. That's that's too much work.
(41:14):
You gotta be better to be gate I mean, you
didn't do this. You the only way I'll be like,
you didn't do this? You know, if you legit just
was lazy with it, then I'll be like, come on, folks,
like this is this. But I mean, if you were
here like legitimately breaking new ground, I don't have nothing
to say. I'd be like, okay, but if you lazy
(41:34):
then okay, Yeah, I might be a little bit of
a gatekeeper, but you know, be I feel like I'm
not a gatekeeper. I feel like I'm a bouncer at
the club gatekeeper. I feel like I want to be there.
Let me be the bouncer at the club. Let me
be like, let's see how you get in. Let me
look at you and your Yeah, who are your friend?
Are they on the list? That's what we need. It's
(41:54):
a bouncer, honey. That's what we need, is a culture bouncer. Regina. Yes,
only the gatekeeper just give me a bouncer. You know
what I'm saying, I live, please like I think this
is this is one of the reasons, and y'all listening,
this is one of the reasons why I think that
your work is so important, because I think it's important
(42:17):
for us to be able to look at and I
think there's lots of layers to this, right, Like when
I was espeosially, when I got to that last section
of your book, when you're sort of expounding upon this
phrase that many of us in the South were just
so exhilarated to here, um that the South, the South
still has something to say, and you'd like added that
(42:38):
still into that phrase that many of us remember watching
on that Award show, Right was Andre three thousand saying
the South got something to say? And I I just
felt like, yeah, wait, do you know? And getting to
the end of your book and you're saying, and that's
still true, the South still has something to say. And
like getting to the end of your book and reading that,
(42:59):
it made hope for two things, Regina. It made me
hope that yes, that we will see more books like yours,
that we will see more of this kind of academic
intellectual analysis of this music and this art, and as
a hip hop culture fan, I want to see more
(43:20):
m c s able to return to where they're from
and let their voices sound like that, and let the
slang of whatever that area is sound like that. Like,
I would love to see that return to hip hop
even more too, because I think that was beautiful for
those of us that were growing up in the nineties.
That was beautiful for us to get to hear that
(43:40):
Snoop doesn't sound the same as you know, A ball
and m j G sound as method Man, sounds as
crucial conflicts, sounded like everybody had sort of this different
way they approached it because they felt like they had
to take their city or their region on their back
and carry it into their music. And just in reading
(44:02):
your analysis and your storytelling here, I was like, Man,
I hope we see a return of that too, you know, yeah,
And I think I think the digital challenge, which is
something that I'm not equipped to write about. This is
why I said I'm trying to kick the door open
for these folks coming up behind me, is that we're
in the era of the digital South. Now, you know
what I'm saying, Like, it's not just physically restricted to
(44:24):
what's going on regionally. I mean, like the region is
accessible by everybody, you know what I'm saying, From the
explosion of trap to an international hip hop genre, to
you know, folks from New York borrowing and and some
folks straight up stealing from from the South. You know
what I'm saying. Um, I think that all of that
is important and how we renegotiate what regional identity means
(44:45):
to the culture. But I will say that, um, the
way that folks represented for where they were from, like
the hyperlocality you know what I'm saying of of region
in the nineties and the early two thousands isn't isn't
really necessary because we got social on media, you know
what I'm saying, Like, it's not like we have to
you know, wait to hear an album to understand like
(45:06):
the super local drops that people giving their music. Now
it's kind of just like, all right, let me go
to Google Earth, let me go on TikTok, let me
see what it actually looks like. Whereas I mean, like
that act of imagining spaces, the way that the imagination
takes root is different because of social media. You know
what I'm saying, and I'm not the one to write
(45:27):
about that because I didn't grow up in a social
media era of Southern rap, you know what I mean.
So that's somebody else's project. Hey, my project, I would
tell you quick. I'd be like, look, I can't talk
about some of these younger folks. Man, Like my cut
off date is like two thousand and eight when I
started my PhD program. I mean, listen, I mean like, listen.
(45:48):
I don't don't be having out here and having me
looking a hot mess. You know what I'm saying. Ask
out because I'm looking at you like now, I can't
you know what I mean. So folks are asking me
about some of the newer folks, I'd be like, I
listened to them in passing, but I'm not to be
able to give you an analysis like I could give
you an analysis about outcast, you know what I mean.
That's somebody else's that's somebody else's career, that's somebody else's
you know, that their work. And I ain't trying to
(46:08):
take that because I can't do it. So no your limits,
no your boundaries, okay. And that's how you open the
door for others because you're like, this is my stuff
that I'm gonna do. You're gonna come here. Regina, thank
you so much for joining me on the podcast talking
(46:28):
to us about all this Southern hip hop. I hope
y'all were taking all the notes so that y'all can
number one by a few copies of this book. You know,
just five is a good number. You could go to
your favorite independent bookseller. By five of them. You got one,
Then you got four that you could give to somebody.
(46:49):
It's like a gift. Okay, work on that, and then
you can listen to this music, so while you're reading
the book you can be educated. But Regina, thank you
for this work you are doing, for for shining a
light on the South and on hip hop culture here.
For for even just hearing your voice and like the
(47:09):
southernness and your voice and in your writing in your book.
That gives a lot of joy to those of us
who are from down here. So thank you so much.
That means that I did my job. I really, you know,
the South still got something to say, and I just
hope that it is that folks realize that we're talking
to each other. You know what I'm saying, And that's
that's what it was. Equally important, Like I didn't know
(47:31):
this one thing. I was very clear about it. I mean,
I know I had to write somewhat academically, but I
didn't want it to be the totality of what I
was saying. And and it seems like I struck a
good enough balance that we can have conversations like this,
you know what I mean, because either are the type
of conversations that I want to have about the work,
you know what I mean. So I so thank you
for the opportunity to chop it up with you and
(47:52):
and and laugh, and I mean, like all of that
is part of Southern hip hop too, you know what
I'm saying. So just just thank you for the opportunity
as well. Thank you again so much to Dr Regina
Bradley for joining me and bringing intellectual conversation about Southern
hip hop to the table. I'm just sorry that she
(48:14):
and I could not have had biscuits, which probably would
have been one of our southern dishes of choice had
we literally been in her living room together. You can
learn more about Dr Bradley's work at her website, Red
clay scholar dot com. You can also follow Regina on
Twitter at red Clay Scholar. And if you forget all
(48:38):
this stuff that I just said, remember you can go
to Amina Brown dot com slash her with Amina. The
show notes are there with links to some of this
music as well as links to check out more of
Dr Regina Bradley's work. And if you aren't following me
on social media on Twitter and Instagram at Amina b E,
(49:00):
you should go follow Let's Be Friends for this week's
edition of Give Her a Crown. And in honor of
our conversation in this episode about Southern hip hop, I
want to shout out one of my favorite rappers from
the South. Grammy Award winning hip hop artist, Rhapsody. Born
and raised in North Carolina, Rhapsodies rap career has been
(49:20):
on the rise for many years right now. My favorite
album of hers is her latest album Eve, and my
favorite song from the album is Whoopee, where she raps
over a sample of one of my favorite jazz songs
Watermelon Man by Herbie Hancock. Each of the songs on
Eve are named for a black woman hero of Rhapsodies,
(49:41):
you should definitely give this a listen. Rhapsody, thank you
for bringing your southernness, your storytelling, and for honoring hip
hop culture through your Music, Rhapsody, Give Her a Crown?
H Her What Amina Brown is produced by Matt Owen
(50:09):
for Slografity Productions as a part of the Seneca Women
Podcast Network in partnership with I Heart Radio. Thanks for
listening and don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review the
podcast
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