December 9, 2025 • 48 mins
Daniel Squadron and Melissa Walker are an unexpected duo. Formerly a New York State Senator, Daniel Squadron represented New York’s 25th and 26th districts for almost ten years. After leaving public office, Squadron co-founded a civic engagement initiative called The States Project - of which he is currently President. Melissa Walker was formerly a magazine editor and journalist published in countless magazines such as Seventeen, Glamour, Teen Vogue, The NY Observer, and New York Magazine. Walker has also authored 10 young adult novels. After a fateful meeting at a holiday party, the two began working together on The State’s Project’s Giving Circles program, co-founded by Walker. The Giving Circles has engaged more than 35,000 donors and raised tens of millions of dollars since its formation in 2018 and works within the States Project to shift the balance of power in state legislatures - ultimately leading to greater political change nationwide.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the
Thing from iHeart Radio. My guests today are a former
New York state senator and a former journalist who now
work together on a civic engagement initiative called The States Project.
Daniel's Squadron previously represented New York's twenty fifth and twenty
(00:25):
sixth districts as a state senator from two thousand and
eight to twenty seventeen. After nine years in public service,
Squadron resigned his office and helped launch the political initiative
future now currently known as the States Project, with entrepreneur
Adam Pritzker. Melissa Walker was formerly a magazine editor and journalist,
(00:49):
published in countless magazines ranging from teen Vogue to The
New York Observer. She has also authored ten young adult novels.
Walker currently served as the principal strategist for the States Projects,
giving circles. Being New Yorkers who are immersed in democratic politics,
(01:09):
I was eager to hear their reactions to the recent
mayoral election here in New York City.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
So I do think that a mayor's race that more
New Yorker's participated in than any time since John Lindsay
is good news. I am partial to state lawmakers being
elected to high and important offices. So this idea that
mom Dannie has never had a real job is incorrect.
State Assembly member is a real job. No one has
(01:37):
had a job that prepares them for mayor. I don't
know if you know what Borough presidents do nowadays, but
like you know or public advocates which I ran for,
you know, these are not jobs of enormous managerial complexity.
I think, as someone who loves New York, being optimistic
and hoping for and trying to support his success is
(01:58):
what we should all do. He has a vision that
is responsive to the thing that is killing New York,
which is affordability and liveability, and we should be all
hands on deck for him to overperform the skeptics and
deliver the most ambitious possible parts of what he can.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
I really leaned into what my younger self would think.
I thought about myself in my twenties, and I thought
about all these people who were out in the streets.
I got canvassed three times in Brooklyn by people in
their twenties, and seeing that made me feel energized, and
I leaned into the kind of hope I would have
had in my twenties, and I know I would have
(02:40):
been out there canvassing, and that kind of helped me
get over some of my own skepticism and get into
that place of energized excitement.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
I wonder what you think about that one percent thing,
whether more of them are going to leave the one
percent that's paying the forty percent of the tax base
in New York? Is that? Where were you when New
York are strapped for cash? Now?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I think the race to the bottom on public financing
over the last forty years is a real problem. You know,
where you have these states that are basically using low
taxes and bad services as a recruitment tool. And in
New York, we need to be bringing young professionals, young
artists in and then having them choose to stay for
(03:23):
forty six years four forty six years ago, housing schools, liveability.
And if New York has that engine, despite the fact
that people can now work remotely, New York does great.
If New York is a place where a tiny portion
of the one percent or choosing whether or not to
move to Florida, and that's the only chance for its
(03:44):
vibrancy and success New York's done anyway.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
You worked in the legislature for ten years, and when
you left you questioned that you had your quote I
have here about the corruption. I believe in state government's potential.
I still do, but over the years I have seen
thwarted by a sliver of heavily invested special interests. In
the State Senate, for example, Democrats have repeatedly been denied
control of the chamber by cynical political deals despite winning
(04:10):
an electoral majority. How is that? How were they repeatedly
didn't what denied it to them?
Speaker 4 (04:16):
And the political nature.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Speaking of misdemeanors and felonies, I would consider this one
a political felony, obviously not criminal. But a group of Democrats,
starting in twenty ten, announcing on the same day as
Andrew Cuomo's first State of the State address, left the
Democratic Party group of Democrats and gave Republicans the majority. Now,
in twenty ten, Republicans already had a majority by one seat.
(04:39):
But what they did is they gave them a cushion.
In twenty twelve, they gave them the majority, and they
stayed with them year in and year out.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
What was the name of those Democrats again?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Independent Democratic Conference, which was missnomer on every one of
those words. Nothing independent. They were with the Republicans. They
weren't Democrats, they were the Republicans. They weren't a conference.
They were just a people, a lot of conferring. And
the really shocking thing, though, is this was done with
no political accountability. For eight years, from twenty ten to
(05:09):
twenty eighteen, this was happening.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
And Cuomo did nothing to dissuade them.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Well, there's certainly speculation that he did things to influence them.
I'd say this, Andrew Cuomo is known to care about control.
And they announced on the day of his first date
of the State address, and they lived to tell the tale.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
But he never did anything publicly to change them.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
I only asked that because when the Moralmit Commission came
and went, I was flabbergasted, because I remember that the
Brennan Center at NYU Law School they would do a
report every year, and one year the report they there
was an evaluation of the fifty state legislatures in the
United States, and New York was forty ninth, just above
Louisiana in terms of its transparency and effectiveness and integrity.
(05:54):
So I mean I'm someone who's grown up in New York,
my whole life in New York State. I grew up
on Long Island. I've been in the city since seventy nine.
And you know you have a tough, jolegist view of Obany.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
Well, this is why I ran.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
You know, I'd say tough, but not cynical. You know,
it was right just a couple years after that report
that I ran. I ran against a thirty year incumbent,
a guy who had been the leader of the Democrats.
He'd been ousted by David Patterson on his way to
become governor. I was twenty eight years old at the time,
and you know, everyone said to me, this is the
worst place in politics, and I said, that's exactly what's.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
Appealing about it. A couple things.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
One, you can't underperform expectations, sort of the opposite of
what our mayor elect has. He's got very high expectations
to perform against. But secondly, if you can just improve
it nominally, the impact in the state and people's lives
will be so dramatic. And you know, we saw that
the moments of greatest competence were unbelievable. My first years
(06:51):
in office, two thousand and nine and ten, there's a
huge amount of stimulus money to deal with the financial
crisis from the federal government, and I chaired the Social
Service Committee, were able to create a billion dollars in
new social services programs, all of which were tested for
their effectiveness and some of which still continue today. And
Riquomo deserves credit for in twenty elevens, for six months,
(07:13):
you know, pulling a political rabbit out of the hat
and getting marriage equality passed in New York with Republicans
having the Numerican majority and the additional majority with those
turncoat Democrats. When state government rises above its most dysfunctional instincts,
the outcomes are unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Now, you had a long career in magazines and publishing,
I did, yes, and you did that for how many
years were you in that business? Twenty oh No, probably
more like ten.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
I started my career in magazines at Rosy Magazine, Rosi
o'donald's magazine.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
How was that? Someone? Was it? That was formerly McCalls.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
It was formerly McCalls.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
How does Rosi o'donald take over McCall's. What does that work? Well?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Oprah magazine launched with Hurst and then Gruner and Yar,
which was the publisher company that owned McCall's, was kind
of looking for a way to jazz it up a bit,
and Rosie O'Donnell on the cover had sold the most
issues anytime she was on the cover. It was just phenomenal.
Her talk show was on, and so eventually they made
a deal with her to take over the magazine and
make it hers, and then she was on every cover
(08:17):
after that, And that was where I had my first job.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
And when you just started to leave the public, I
just this is great as written for publications such as Seventeen, Glamour, Teen, Vogue,
Self More, Cosmo, Girl, Red Book, Family Circle, Fitness, Parenting, Brides,
The New York Observer, New York Magazine, Ladies' Home Journal,
Life and Style. I'm like, what base didn't you touch
(08:42):
going around the bags there? What's the difference. What's the
difference running for women's magazine on men's magazine in terms
of your writing skills?
Speaker 3 (08:50):
You know, I think I wrote a lot about lifestyle things,
and I wrote a lot about psychology. I mean, I
was really mining my own experiences women in their twenties,
and honestly, back then, magazines really didn't write about women
much older than their twenties and thirties. I remember asking
my colleagues like, where do all the forty year olds go?
(09:11):
Because it felt like there wasn't a voice for them
until there were some older women's magazines created, like More.
But back then, it really was what experiences were we living.
It was dating, it was psychology, it was all the
things that we were experiencing. First jobs, job changing, all
that stuff. But I really found my voice in teen magazines.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
I don't know why.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Well, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
If my internal dialogue was always set somewhere around seventeen,
but when I started working at a teen magazine, that's
when I started realizing, like, oh, this is my audience,
this is who I want to talk to. I think
it's partly because teenagers are fans. They're just fans of
what they're reading, about, what they're into. They're so enthusiastic
about life.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
When they like something, they.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Like it absolutely. I loved that energy, and that's really
why I started writing young adult novels too, because there's
such a universal experience when you're a teenager, and the
irony is that every teenager thinks no one has ever
felt this way before.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
I alone, I don't know this.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
And feel this way. And the truth is everybody's felt
that way before. So there's a lot to write about
and a lot to mine, and a lot of deep
caring among that audience.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Now, what happened? What year are we talking about when
you transition.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Over to politics as well? Really, in the fall of
twenty sixteen, you know, something happened. Donald Trump was elected
for the first time. And back then I was just
writing young adult novels and middle grade novels, so getting
even younger with my writing. And I realized that I
hadn't been involved in the democracy and that something had
(10:46):
happened that I couldn't believe. And so I spent the
month after Donald Trump was elected kind of looking for
ways to plug in and do something that was meaningful,
and I couldn't find any. I was casting about, I
was sending you know, I was making those five calls
a day, I was sending notes to Schumer. I was
doing all these things, but I couldn't figure out no. No,
(11:07):
I was just writing as a constituent. I was saying,
please help with this, How can I do this? Whare
well the form letters?
Speaker 1 (11:14):
You know?
Speaker 3 (11:15):
But it all felt a little bit like you know,
peering in windows at rooms I couldn't quite see, and
I could not figure out how to insert myself into
the democracy in a way that would help until I
went to a publishing holiday party in December of twenty
sixteen in Brooklyn Heights and I heard Daniel speak.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
So he was the bait. The ideas were the bait.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Yeah, the ideas and a little bit of a challenge
which he is wont to throw around. I think sometimes,
you know, he really He started talking about state governments.
He started talking about how everything we care about is
decided in state capitals, not in Washington, d C. He
was talking about education, funding, environmental policy, healthcare, civil rights,
voting rights, abortion even back then, jerrymandering, all of those things.
(12:00):
And he connected the dots for a bunch of things
that hadn't made sense to me from the Obama years,
like the bathroom bills passing all over the country, starting
with Raleigh, and the standard ground gun laws starting in Tallahassee,
letting Traymon Martin's murder go free, then starting a spreading
to twenty six states. I started to realize, like, these
things are happening in state capitals. I don't know the
(12:20):
names of those lawmakers. There are fifty many congresses around
this country, and I haven't been paying attention to any
of them, not even my own. The night after I
heard him speak, I googled who is my state Senator
on the way home and figured out that I had
never heard of my state senator. I'd had no eyes
on Albany at all. But I thought of myself as
a pretty well informed person, so I realized this was
(12:41):
a place I could plug.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
In going to this meeting with him. You went to
a meeting of future now.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
No, you know what it was. It was a publishing
holiday party. It was a party that happened every year.
It was like one of the best parties of the year,
this big brownstone in Brooklyn Heights. And I thought I
was just going to the party, but we were all
feeling pretty down because, yes, because of Trump, the.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
State project hadn't been launched.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
I was.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
I was just the local state senator at that time
who had been invited to speak at a holiday party.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Then won't you speak about what?
Speaker 4 (13:13):
Well? That was a good question.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
That was what they wanted, because you know, I was
in office nine years and no other point was ever
invited to anyone's holiday party as the politician to speak.
There were times I was asked not to come to
people's holiday parties for fear I would speak about politics
and so the But you know, the invitation actually happened
to be my son's third birthday. Was my wife's friend's
friend who invited me, who's actually a wonderfully successful novelist.
(13:38):
And I didn't really want to go at eight o'clock
after putting my three year old to bed on his birthday.
But I also figured, you know, I'm a stage senator.
Beggars can't be choosers here. They want to hear me.
I'm going to go. I'm going to do my thing.
No one's going to listen. And so I went, and
I basically said, you know, if you feel like you're
(13:59):
not meeting the moment, that's correct. If you feel like
you're an observer to the destruction of the democracy, that's right.
There is a thing you.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Could do good with a cheery holiday message.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
And if the people in this room committed themselves for
a year to changing the direction of a state, they could.
It often costs less to change power in a state
legislature than a single congressional district. And then I said,
you know, and you know, I hope you'll do it.
If you really, we can save this country. You are
a part of it, but you need to choose to
be strategic and to look where your impact will be,
(14:32):
not where your glamour is. Then I stopped speaking. There's
a jazz Era microphone there. The jazz band starts coming up,
and I figured I'll do one loop around the room.
Maybe there's some constituents here, maybe someone will thank me
for the recent traffic light. And Melissa and another young
adult author stop me, and her friend Gail Foreman, says.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
We can do it.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
What can you do?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I kind of try to move away. Melissa blocks the
other side and say no, we're going to raise one
hundred thousand dollars and what do we do next? And
I said, you know what, here's my email. Email me
if you're still interested in this. On Monday, and I
decided not to do a walk through of the party,
I turned around and went home. I actually went home,
turned on Saturday Night Live and you were the cold
open playing Donald Trump doing a social media I just
(15:15):
got to eat doing a social media gambit, And I
thought to myself. I actually remember, I thought to myself, like,
now that's how people engage politics, this state legislative thing.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Never Yeah, Now describe for me. I'll ask you this question,
and we're both of you, but you first, Melissa, and
that is so future. Now describe what that was and
over what period of time does it morph into states?
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Honestly from my journey, you know, I started what we
started to call a giving circle with a bunch of
other children's book authors and we decided that we would
try to focus on a state, just like Daniel had
said we wouldn't do. And when we had amassed a
bunch of pledges together, we called them back and said
we're ready to do this. We've got pledges, we just
need your guidance on where to go and how to
(15:57):
do this. And he said, okay, well not a minute,
and a bunch of other things happened too, including you
met Adam Pritzker, and that summer Daniel resigned from the
State Senate to start Future Now, which is now the
State's Project, and start focusing on state legislatures, and we
became the first giving circle to support the electoral work
(16:19):
of the States Project. So that was fall twenty seventeen
was giving.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Circle for my listeners is just it's just fundraising.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Yeah, it's a group of people coming together. It's actually fundraising,
but it's also a lot of learning. None of us
had any idea about state legislatures grams you can learn. Yeah,
once we started getting together and learning about, you know,
how much power they had and how you know, from
twenty ten to twenty sixteen, Democrats had lost nearly a
thousand state legislative seats as Carl Rove and Project Red
(16:48):
Map got into action and flipped all those seats and
then took over state houses and state senates and really
made people's lives bad. Defunded education, put in right to
work laws, gutted environmental protections, and most people blame what
they can see and the spotlight stays on Washington, DC,
the President and maybe Congress. So once people started seeing that,
light bulbs went off in their heads and they were
(17:10):
ready to say, yeah, i'll give an annual donation for this.
This seems like something I can actually impact. And that's
how we started our giving circle, learning together and giving together.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
How about you when you started future Now, what was
the goal?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
So I can't tell you how surprised I was that
they took me up on the challenge. I wasn't being cute.
I really thought no one had. Probably I'd made a
similar speech one hundred times before, and it really changed me.
I could not stop talking about it. In this moment
with Trump, maybe people will finally be willing to be
strategic and focused till everyone I knew about it. Adam
(17:44):
Pritzker was selling his first business. He knew two people
in New York politics, and they both said, well, you
want to do something really interesting. He's a very interesting thinker,
wander something interesting. You should meet this guy who's got
this strange obsession with giving circles for state legislatures and
kind of want to do something in Virginia this year.
Virginia's your elections. So Adam and I met, and to
my shock, he said, this is great. Like I don't
(18:05):
want to go just do something. I said, you know
you're not going to get credit for it because it's
state legislators.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Said I know, but.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
It's really this is he was seed money.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Lots smart. He said, let's do it together. I'll make
it possible. I'll see it. You have to resign to
do it full time, and let's partner up and let's
see how we can.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Prime to resign by then. Any Way, according to your
remarks about Albany.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Look, I was certainly extremely frustrated with how much a
single politician could do to change the system, especially as
it felt like the democracy was starting to crumble. Now,
my district was the greatest district on earth. It was
Lower Manhattan and parts of Brooklyn. You know, I had
the Statue of Liberty Allis Island, both sides of the
Brooklyn Bridge World Trade Center site. You tight in New
(18:46):
York City into a map, it Pushban came down right
in the middle of that district. I was never tired
of that district. But there are two things. As an
elected official, your best job is to take what comes
and try to make good decisions, try to improve it
on the margins, or to serve your constituents and what
they need. That was an incredible way to spend ten years.
But this is a systems problem. This lack of attention
(19:08):
to state legislature is their potential to either be a
source to destroy the democracy or improve it. And when
Adam and Melissa and her first giving circle together made
it possible to do something that really also wasn't partisan.
The other thing that was important to Adam is this
is not about party. Obviously, you need to choose in
a two party system in each election who's better. But
(19:28):
it's about these outcomes in the world that you talk
about that when you really look at it on paper,
States can deliver and no one's trying except for the
radical right, who was, by the way, doing a damn
good job of it.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Daniel's Squadron and Melissa Walker of the States Project. If
you enjoy conversations about New York City history and preservation,
check out my episode with Rob Snyder of The Island
Institute and Andrew Berman of the Greenwich Village Society for
Historic Preservation.
Speaker 5 (20:04):
We need to have affordable housing all throughout New York City.
The problem is that the approach that a lot of
people take is instead of saying we need affordable housing,
let's build affordable housing, they say, well, we need to
unleash the market and build as much market rate housing
as possible, flood the market, and then that's going to
bring the prices down for everybody. The way to get
(20:25):
affordable housing is to build affordable housing and to keep
the affordable housing that you have, which we're losing at
a breakneck pace.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
To hear more of my conversation with Rob Snyder and
Andrew Berman, go to Here's the Thing dot org. After
the break, Daniels Squadron, and Melissa Walker share how the
State's Project operates beyond New York State and targets all
ninety nine legislative chambers in the country. I'm Alec Baldwin,
(21:02):
and this is Here's the Thing. When Melissa Walker first
met Daniel's Squadron in twenty sixteen, she was inspired to
start her own giving circle to help raise funds for
local state legislatures. In twenty eighteen, she co founded a
giving circle for the States Project to help engage networks
(21:23):
and raise funds towards the goal of creating political change
at the state level. I was curious how these giving
circles have evolved over time.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
The first year we started doing it, there were twenty
eight giving circles all in New York and really just
kind of along my walking paths in Brooklyn and Manhattan.
It was people who were gathered in cafes writing postcards
to voters, and I would kind of knock on the
window and say, can I talk to you about state legislatures,
because what I thought happened every time I walked into
one of those rooms was I said, I know you're
(21:55):
trying to impact what's happening in this country, and I'm
about to tell you a way that you can have
an impact that you never thought was possible, and people
would really light up at it and think to themselves,
maybe I can do this, Because you know, I wasn't
someone I was writing one young adult novel a year
and for many many magazines, as you noted. But I
wasn't someone who could host a senator in my living room,
(22:17):
you know. But I was someone who could gather ten
friends over for pizza and wine and everyone pulled some
dollars and actually change what's happening in a state legislature.
Who's in the majority. And that first year, we raised
around one hundred thousand dollars for Virginia, and they have
odd year elections. We were trying to flip ten seats
that year to change the balance of power in the
(22:38):
House of Delegates. We funded the final campaign gaps for
ten of the ten candidates. Nine of them won their seats,
and the balance of power got so close to flipping
just one seat away from flipping entirely that the next
year of Virginia expanded Medicaid, four hundred thousand people got
healthcare who hadn't had it before, and we felt connected
to that policy outcome, and everyone who'd given any amount
(22:59):
to my giving circle said, let's do this again. Let's
choose another state with the State's Project and do this again.
And so that's when I started Giving Circles program with
the States Project, because it was the most impactful thing
I'd ever done. It was the most you know, energized
I felt, and I really felt like what we were
doing was making a difference, and that feeling has gotten
(23:20):
stronger every single year.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
But in that way that you can harness that kind
of thing, I mean for you with the Giving circles,
is it like do you make sure people don't come
unless you know what they're going to give? No?
Speaker 3 (23:33):
No, really, I mean it's it's kind of fascinating. So
when I started doing this work, I had a friend
a couple months in say, oh, how's the fundraising going?
And I said, I'm not fundraising, I'm flipping state legislatures.
And she was like, through fundraising, right, And I was like,
oh am I fundraising, Oh my gosh. And I really
still kind of approach it that way. I want everyone
(23:55):
in a room to really understand how power works in
this country and how foundational state legislatures are to that power,
and I hope they all leave with that kind of knowledge,
and I hope they all leave with enough kind of
tidbits to spread that knowledge a little bit. And then yeah,
there's an ask in the room. But I have found
(24:15):
that not having a minimum and not having a maximum
can really do the most for a room, because it's
never with giving circles about one room. It's about seeding
something in a room and raising some dollars, but then
spreading those seeds out among the people who were there
to host the next room and the next room and
the next room or a lunch they want me to
come to with someone who's really important. And that way
(24:37):
it has spread so much more organically, I think than
those kind of one off political events.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
And this is one of the big differences. I don't
think there's a single person who says I love political fundraisers.
Occasionally you're glad you got the picture and the grip
and grin line so that you can show everyone else,
but no one had a good time. That's true in
a small one, it's true in a big one. The
difference with the giving circles and with Melissa's sometimes it's
been difficult for me. Insistence that it's not just about
(25:03):
fundraising is that it's actually a good time because you're
actually going And there are two things happening that never
happen at a political fundraiser. The first is you're actually
learning something, you're not just scoring the pall on how
much they can tell you what you want to hear.
And the second is you're doing something that feels like
(25:24):
you discovered the best next band that no one's heard of.
And so you show up thinking you're going to be
a political fundraiser, and you walk out with a totally
new perspective on American politics that, by the way, happens
to be true, and like a little bit of like
an insider in the kind of cred that you can
carry with you everywhere you go. And if there was
(25:45):
a minimum, if everyone was there, it was like here's
the two fifty, here's the thousand dollars check, it wouldn't
be that, it wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Be the same. I believe that again, harnessing that energy.
People want to think it matters. People want to give,
they want a care, they want to help, they want
to learn, they want to do all these things based
on one really horrible thing, and that is that they've
completely lost faith in the government of this country. Exactly,
they have completely lost faith. You only come when you
(26:12):
want something from me, and then once I vote for
you, you disappear and I never hear from you again. I
never hear from you again. And people are sick of that.
What's the path? Now? With the giving circles, you raise
some money, you educate people, you have a good speaker,
somebody who's really really interesting and informed, and so forth,
and then the money goes where where does it go? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:34):
So with giving circles, they get to choose the target
state from our list of targets that they'd like to impact,
not just.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Their home state.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Correct, that's right, iortant yep. So we are only in
states where we see a threshold of power that needs
defending or that we think can be challenged.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
So, for example, we just finished up this year working
in Virginia because it again has odd year elections, working
on the House of delegates. So many of the giving
circles working this year were focused on Virginia, and when
they give money to the giving circle, one hundred percent
of the amount that's raised by the giving circle goes
out the door to the state. And we are working
in the state as the State's Project with the State Caucus,
(27:13):
the Virginia House Democrats and working on targeting the set
of districts that are possible to win to shift power.
This case, we were trying to deepen power. We had
a one seat majority that we won by nine hundred
and seventy five votes in twenty twenty three, so trying
to deepen that majority this year, protect it and deepen it.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
I went down there, went door to door the last election.
Good for you get with people for the American way.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Yeah, I mean, it's it was really important. It was
a really important thing to do, partially because there was
a governor's race too, and there was a chance just
on Tuesday to make Virginia a trifecta, meaning control of
the governor's mansion, majority in the House and majority in
the Senate. And that was achieved on Tuesday, and Virginia
became the sixteenth.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
Divenment a trifecta.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Yes, absolutely, sixteenth democratic trifecta in the country, and that
has a lot of power to not only do things
to improve Virginian's lives, but also to impact the entire country.
And that really was made possible by the State's Project's investment,
which was the largest investment of any national group.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
And who with the State's Project or someone you're affiliated with,
is doing the strategic research as to where the money
is going to go.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
So our team does that, you know. I think another
barrier to people getting involved in politics, giving money let
himself become emotionally invested, is the feeling that it will
be wasted, that campaigns don't really matter, or they just
enrich consultants, someone's cousin, whatever it is. And so that's
a barrier we need to help people get across. We
have a whole internal team that is constantly looking actually
(28:48):
at all ninety nine legislative chambers in the country. As
I'm sure you and all your listeners know, Nebraska is
a unicameral state, but every other state has a House
and a Senate, and so they're looking at all ninety
nine of those legislative chambers trying to figure out out
both which chambers could be flipped, but also which seats
and which candidates are most likely to do so, and
(29:08):
then trying to figure out the most effective ways to
spend money so that those dollars are well spent to
communicate with voters and convince people. And you know, one
of the things that they've found that we found is
in state legislative elections, getting candidates off the phones, raising
money from special interests and out knocking on doors in
(29:28):
their communities is an incredible way to win elections and
do something about corruption. And so the way to think
about it is there's going to be money in politics.
The state's project program, make sure that money is well spent,
but also that the candidate is not being asked to
do something. We don't have a litmus test other than one,
(29:53):
serve your constituents, they are the ones who hired you. Two,
do you believe in the American promise, the idea that
it's self evident all people are aated equal with the
right to life, liberty in the pursuit of happiness, and
government secures those rights with the consent of the government.
And then go work for the people who you want
to represent.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Now, why is Nebraska the only unicameral. You blew my mind.
Why is that the only unicameral.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
It got it got shifted.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
So you know, the requirement in the Constitution is that
all of the states have a quote republican form of
government small R not party although I think exactly and so,
actually a bunch of states were already bi cameral as
of the time the US government was created, and then
there was a move sort of in the progressive era
(30:39):
that unicameral would be better. Only Nebraska did it sort
of play a plan's progressivism. There's actually some real arguments
for it. The relationship between the legislature and the governor
is very different in a unicameral LEGI when you need
two chambers, the governor can play them off each other
and increase their power significantly. A gubernatorial veto, just as
an example, is much easier to override in a single
(31:01):
chamber than a bicameral.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
What do they call the members of the unicamer senators?
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Yes, I mean they're politicians.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
You don't think they wanted to call themselves a separate
members as a former senator of Upper House matters. But
the other interesting thing is it's the only nonpartisan legislature.
So while people have parties, they run on a non
partisan ticket. So as recently as twenty nineteen, members of
the Nebraska Senate supermajority Republicans. The number three most powerful
(31:29):
person in that chamber was a Democrat, even though a
supermajority of Republicans. The different possibilities for a different kind
of partisanship across the fifty states, I mean, you would
really lose all your listeners.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
But is fascinating now is there a state that you
basically said us of don't bother. You wouldn't even bother
going down there to try to influence the state legislations
is so conquetized.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
So you know, it's actually not a light question at
all because I would argue that the Democratic Party and
progressive activiststs have basically been sending the message we don't
need all the states for a number of years now,
The idea that we're letting the competition partisan or ideological
competition in places like Idaho just whether on the vine.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
For years.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Were in Mississippi. Hopefully that's now shifting. We were in
Mississippi in twenty nineteen. You know, it's an incredible state
with a really interesting political history. Obviously very ugly one
as well, but also some hope in it. We were
able to help a candidate, I think, outperform what she
had done the year before the election before by seventy
(32:37):
points to win the election. So I would say there's
some cultures that you wouldn't want to get involved in.
I think that maybe for non New Yorkers people might
think the New York political culture is one of those.
But there is no state where we shouldn't be saying
at a time when you have a political movement that
wants to undermine democracy, we should be able to build
a coalition that's pro democracy, including by the way, if
(33:00):
you have an R by your name on the ballot,
not just a D.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Now, when you were doing that, just like in the Senate,
you were you were Brooklyn and at that timely Manhattan.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
So I never lived in Manhattan.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
When I was in the legislature, I was considered very
Manhattan because two thirds of my district was Manhattan and
how I come across. But I actually grew up in
the Bronx and lived in Work. I've never lived in
Manhattan a day in my life.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
The Bronx andwhere riverdaleah exactly, Oh, yeah, your dad, as
we raise everybody, got it? Got it? Got it? Would
you say that when you do these projects? Because when
I was there at the thing that you both were attending,
that was Sarah Jessica was there and Jasmith Cameron and
so forth, and I went to that event, which I'm
very glad I went to, although there was that again
hallucinatory moment when I was like, I've heard this before,
(33:44):
if I heard this before, but do you find that
it's easier to corral women than it is meant?
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Yeah, I mean I find that, yes, giving circles are
largely led by women, and they are organizing other women.
There are some men who lead giving circles with us,
but I would say eighty percent of our leaders are women.
And it's really an exercising organizing people. So I always
say it's you know, it's the person who's organizing the
(34:11):
pot luck, it's the person who started the book club,
it's the person who hosts the dinner parties, it's the
person who brings people together.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
That women are more organize them men.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
I mean, I'm just saying I think there's there's a
community building aspect to it that really is tends to
be women and for the most.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Part, Daniel's Squadron and Melissa Walker of the States Project.
If you're enjoying this conversation, tell a friend and be
sure to follow Here's the Thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify,
or wherever you get your podcasts. When we come back,
(34:47):
Daniel's Squadron and Melissa Walker discuss how the States Project
was able to flip twelve state seats in Pennsylvania in
twenty twenty two with the help of giving circles. I'm
(35:09):
Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. As
a New York State senator, Daniel's Squadron focused on many
important public policy and funding issues. Among his many contributions
were federal funding for public housing, ethics and campaign finance reform,
and public parks projects on the Lower east Side, Governor's
(35:31):
Island and the Brooklyn Bridge Park. I wanted to know
more about Squadron's desire to protect open spaces and how
he worked to save Brooklyn Bridge Park from developments. Well.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Originally the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey State,
well a bi state agency. Actually there is a state
public state level, and then the conversion and it was
in the district I was running for, and the plan
to get it funded was to build luxury housing in
the limits of the park and have the tax dollars
from that housing fund the park. I had real concerns
(36:07):
about that because I think that privatizing public space with
parochial local interests is a serious Actually, it's the same
thing that's now become sort of the Nimby question when
it comes to housing. But I think you see it
with open space all over the place as well.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
It's what did they wind up doing? Did they build
luxury housing?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
So they did, so I was able to delay it
to reduce it, and you know it. It's actually Brooklynbridge
Park is working really well because, in a way I
underestimated it's so popular all of us. It was so
popular that there's no parochial interest that could take it over.
So there are people who live in brooklyn Bridge Park.
You ask anyone who does, they're sure their tax dollars
(36:46):
go to brooklyn Bridge Park. But the political constituency and
the folks who designed it, Regina Meyer, who ran it
when it was first getting built and opened, really to
their credit, built a park that would draw people in
even who could never still live in Brooklyn Heights, and
that has, in a way I underestimated, allowed it to
be a truly public space. It also, i would say,
(37:07):
is by far the best funded public amenity maybe in
the history of all humanity because of what's happened to
real estate.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
So the land was owned by the joint authorities and
they sold it to the developer to build the house.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Now, before I ever came an office, the Port Authority
transferred it to a public corporation that was controlled by
the state at the time. All of the land is
on ground leases with the developers still owned by the state.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
But part of this whole in theatre buildings are just
renting the land.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yes, but under long term leases and leases. And actually,
another thing we did that I'm really proud of and
we were able to do in Governor's Island too, is
change the governance structure so instead of some by state
no accountability. In both cases, we were able to negotiate
with the Bloomberg administration and the governor at the time,
Governor Patterson, so that the city controls Brooklyn Bridge Park,
(37:56):
the Mayor's responsible, the city controls Governor's Island, the Mayor's
responsible sort of like what you see in the arrow
control of the schools. And one reason I think those
both of those parks have done so well is is
mayors care about making them better in a way you
never would if it was this alphabet soup that we're
talking about.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Now. The land was leased by the developers. They built
and erected housing, their high end housing, and they kept
the money they profited from them from leases they got
with did they pay so the only thing they paid
They didn't pay a big on the housing or do
you guys say paid taxes?
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Now they did so, I mean, so there's a bunch
of different types of housing there. So there's a rental unit,
there's a building that was a huge conversion, that warehouse
that you might sort of be able to picture at
Peer five there. And then there's some new developments that
were built, one of which is actually one hundred percent affordable.
Actually the Blosoo administration and I both supported that. So
there's a mix. There was some cost to the ground lease,
(38:54):
but mostly there had They have something called pilots payments
and lieu of taxes, so they don't pay property taxes
to the city. The property DEXes for those all of
that housing funds the park directly.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
So the city and of the state have realized some
money from the sale of this property. The housing.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
I'd say the city doesn't the city treasury doesn't have
to pay to keep Brooklyn Bridge Park going and being
the it's funded by this mechanism.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
And then and then the land that the park is on,
there was there was no park there.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
I know there were. There was Peers. It was it
was Peers that had been basically in disuse since the containerization.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
And where do the mochi have developed the park?
Speaker 2 (39:31):
So that was capital money that was part of the
deal we made to give the city control. The Bloomberg
administration put a really large amount of capital investment in
as part of the deal to take control of the park.
There's a board that has seventeen appointments on it.
Speaker 4 (39:47):
So if so you.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Know who appoints them, hocel Well, I want to.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Tell you because we made the deal. So obviously the
local state senator has an appointment and I.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Knew him once and what did he do? And the
ones walking around lost in Manhattan.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
The local assembly member, the local city council member, the
Brooklyn Borough president, the governor still has a few appointments,
and the mayor has a large number. The best thing
to do with a five year old in New York
City is get on one of those public ferries. Take
it to Governor's Island, spend Little Ham Gover Island, get
back on the ferry. Take it to Brooklyn Bridge Park,
Go get some ice cream, Get back on the ferry,
take it back to Manhattan. Think of a day where,
(40:21):
like you know, you spend less than ten dollars and
maybe twenty dollars with the ice cream cone, and you
experienced the greatest view, the greatest community on earth.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
My wife and I take my kids to Saint George
all the time. My kids would love to go on
the ferry and they'd seen to me, you know you
rode the ferry, Dad, But when you were young, did
you ride the ferries? Like? Yeah, when I was in
I used to ride the ferry. Then I could have
had to cut the story short because it involved me
smoking a joint, drinking a bottle of wine, turning around,
coming back and going to Woe Hop in Chinatown, and
it was blowing it out.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
On the Dollar Miller high lifes on the All Staten Island,
ferry ferry with the dollar highlight.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
We got as wasted as that was glorious of liberty.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
So it was so for Agia.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Yeah, I remember I woke up to the ferry with
my kids and I go, where do I pay? I
hadn't been on the ferry of fifteen years, and I
welcome to the like ten cops in a huddle, and
I go where do I pay? And I goes ferries free,
mister Boldbyn ferries free. I go what he goes? Yeah,
it's free. That's another thing I can save money with.
Mid We're going on the ferry again. Yeah, come on,
come on, get your coats on. Now, what is your
(41:24):
goal in the coming years or even months. What's the
goal in terms of you want to just continue a
long or is there another goal? You have a broader
goal you have?
Speaker 3 (41:33):
Yeah, I mean so we now have over two hundred
giving circles working with the state's pormationwise nationwide. Correct. And
my goal really with that program is to keep everyone
who's in it on a steady course, not in this
kind of reactive politics that makes us all so tired,
but to keep them moving steadily and focused strategically on
(41:54):
these particular nodes of power where they can have impact.
You know, these are races that are decided on the
mark rgins, and these giving circles are actually impacting results
not just of single elections, but who is holding the
majority in states. And you know, twenty twenty two Pennsylvania
is a great example. We were able to flip twelve
(42:14):
seats that year with the help of Giving circles and
we got the final twelfth seat by sixty three votes.
Sixty three votes shifted power in Harrisburg that year. And
I believe that every single Giving Circle that chose Pennsylvania
that year was responsible for that victory because if one
of them hadn't been there organizing a living room in
a backyard, a gathering or a zoom room, then I'm
(42:36):
not sure we would have gotten those last sixty three
votes to shift power. So when I meet a new
Giving Circle leader, what I say to them is that
they are turning on the porch light for strategic political
giving or their communities. And my goal is to make
sure that people have a focus and people have a
place where they feel like they're making a difference, and
that's what the Giving Circles program does. So staying in
(42:57):
it staying steady, not being reacted to politics, but really
focusing on where they can have an impact foundationally for
the country, and then spreading that to other people, saying
who else in your community should have a giving circle?
Who else is feeling like there's nothing they can do.
We do not have to be witnesses to what's happening
in our democracy. We have power, especially when we gather
(43:19):
people and do it together, and so giving circles are
never about what one person can give, but the magical
math problem of bringing people together to learn about this,
have a focus, and strategically work with us to target
specific seats.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
I love when I went to the meeting both meetings,
the one at Rothman's house that I first went with
you guys was a bit smaller, and that other one,
that woman who was the host in that magnificent carriage
house of us that was like, oh my god, I'll
give money to I and come back here and have
some more candipas and some sparkling war or know her
house was stunning. But the idea being that you know,
finding people I guess nationwide, who are States Project's material.
(43:56):
My question for you is what's the budget of States Project?
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Now roughly in the twenty twenty four cycle, we were
the largest outside state legislative effort in the history of
the country. We raised more than seventy million dollars over
that two year cycle. And you know, it's it's a
lot of money. But when you think of the fact
that a single congressional race nowadays cost about twenty five
million or is, you know, they're spending twenty five million dollars,
(44:22):
you're talking about less than the cost of three or
four congressional races. To have candidates who believe in America
and believe in democracy free to go meet their voters
around the country in every state, it matters, and giving circles,
including ones that raise cumulatively five thousand dollars in contributions
(44:42):
of fifty dollars at a time or raised ten times,
that are often the single biggest giver in one of
these races in a smaller state like New Hampshire or Maine.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
So the budget of states projects is what per year.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
It's a two year cycle, so almost the vast major
the money goes out to actually be contributed to campaigns.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
And I'm sure the initiative of quesse so low, but
how many people in the staff fourteen people. Great, and
your office is.
Speaker 4 (45:08):
Where totally remote?
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Unfortunately, totally remote. You don't want an office, no.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
I said, unfortunate. I mean because I love, actually love
our team and when we get to be at worse,
when we got to be.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
In personal, did they have an office prior?
Speaker 2 (45:18):
We had an office before COVID, but then as we
were growing during the COVID period, we started hiring people
from around the country and now.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
My kids, you can have my apartment.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
If you can convince our team to move to New
York by doing happy hours for them once a week,
I'll take it.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
I'll take a look at it. Yeah, you know, when
I saw you guys speak the first time, I mean,
I think a lot of people have the same idea
of there's a collective consciousness, and they have a variation
of the same idea of like, well, let's go, let's
work the states. I think what you're doing is really
the only meaningful work that could be done right now.
We're more meaningful in that way.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
Well, it gives me a lot of hope to work
on these campaigns where the main thing is we want
you to go door to door and talk to the people.
In your community, right, we want you to We want
you to listen. We want you to talk about the
traffic patterns and the grass on the softball field and
the local school. And that is how you connect with
people as a neighbor. And you do that persuasion knocking,
(46:15):
talking to people like a neighbor. That to me is
part of the connective tissue that's been missing. And it's
really heartening to be able to work on campaigns where
that is a main tactic, because that person to person
contact is so effective and so important for healing people
in this really disconnected time.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
I'm really sympathetic to people who are discouraged by politics,
and I actually sometimes think how hopeless about politics must
people have been to vote for this guy again, knowing
what they were getting.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
But knowing.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
But it's on those of us who are doing this
full time, on those of us who care about the democracy,
to make it less hopeless, to make it seem worthwhile.
That's not going to happen by watching more cable news
or spending more time on social media. It's not going
to happen by choosing you Burger King McDonald's Republicans or
(47:10):
Democrats in the national conversation. When you get into states,
you start feeling like, Wow, I have power in this democracy.
Wow that thing that made no sense suddenly I understand.
And most importantly, things really can change for the better.
And I just want people to have that chance, because
(47:33):
being discouraged and being hopeless is the end of the democracy,
whether it's this guy or someone else, and knowing you're
a part.
Speaker 4 (47:40):
Of it is the hope.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
My thanks to Daniel Squadron and Melissa Walker. This episode
was recorded at CDM Studios in New York City. We're
produced by Kathleen Musso, Zach MacNeice, and Victoria de Martin.
Our engineers Frank Imperial. Our social media manager is Danielle Gingrich.
I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the Thing is brought to you
(48:06):
by iHeart Radio.
This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the
Thing from iHeart Radio. My guests today are a former
New York state senator and a former journalist who now
work together on a civic engagement initiative called The States Project.
Daniel's Squadron previously represented New York's twenty fifth and twenty
(00:25):
sixth districts as a state senator from two thousand and
eight to twenty seventeen. After nine years in public service,
Squadron resigned his office and helped launch the political initiative
future now currently known as the States Project, with entrepreneur
Adam Pritzker. Melissa Walker was formerly a magazine editor and journalist,
(00:49):
published in countless magazines ranging from teen Vogue to The
New York Observer. She has also authored ten young adult novels.
Walker currently served as the principal strategist for the States Projects,
giving circles. Being New Yorkers who are immersed in democratic politics,
(01:09):
I was eager to hear their reactions to the recent
mayoral election here in New York City.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
So I do think that a mayor's race that more
New Yorker's participated in than any time since John Lindsay
is good news. I am partial to state lawmakers being
elected to high and important offices. So this idea that
mom Dannie has never had a real job is incorrect.
State Assembly member is a real job. No one has
(01:37):
had a job that prepares them for mayor. I don't
know if you know what Borough presidents do nowadays, but
like you know or public advocates which I ran for,
you know, these are not jobs of enormous managerial complexity.
I think, as someone who loves New York, being optimistic
and hoping for and trying to support his success is
(01:58):
what we should all do. He has a vision that
is responsive to the thing that is killing New York,
which is affordability and liveability, and we should be all
hands on deck for him to overperform the skeptics and
deliver the most ambitious possible parts of what he can.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
I really leaned into what my younger self would think.
I thought about myself in my twenties, and I thought
about all these people who were out in the streets.
I got canvassed three times in Brooklyn by people in
their twenties, and seeing that made me feel energized, and
I leaned into the kind of hope I would have
had in my twenties, and I know I would have
(02:40):
been out there canvassing, and that kind of helped me
get over some of my own skepticism and get into
that place of energized excitement.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
I wonder what you think about that one percent thing,
whether more of them are going to leave the one
percent that's paying the forty percent of the tax base
in New York? Is that? Where were you when New
York are strapped for cash? Now?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I think the race to the bottom on public financing
over the last forty years is a real problem. You know,
where you have these states that are basically using low
taxes and bad services as a recruitment tool. And in
New York, we need to be bringing young professionals, young
artists in and then having them choose to stay for
(03:23):
forty six years four forty six years ago, housing schools, liveability.
And if New York has that engine, despite the fact
that people can now work remotely, New York does great.
If New York is a place where a tiny portion
of the one percent or choosing whether or not to
move to Florida, and that's the only chance for its
(03:44):
vibrancy and success New York's done anyway.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
You worked in the legislature for ten years, and when
you left you questioned that you had your quote I
have here about the corruption. I believe in state government's potential.
I still do, but over the years I have seen
thwarted by a sliver of heavily invested special interests. In
the State Senate, for example, Democrats have repeatedly been denied
control of the chamber by cynical political deals despite winning
(04:10):
an electoral majority. How is that? How were they repeatedly
didn't what denied it to them?
Speaker 4 (04:16):
And the political nature.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Speaking of misdemeanors and felonies, I would consider this one
a political felony, obviously not criminal. But a group of Democrats,
starting in twenty ten, announcing on the same day as
Andrew Cuomo's first State of the State address, left the
Democratic Party group of Democrats and gave Republicans the majority. Now,
in twenty ten, Republicans already had a majority by one seat.
(04:39):
But what they did is they gave them a cushion.
In twenty twelve, they gave them the majority, and they
stayed with them year in and year out.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
What was the name of those Democrats again?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Independent Democratic Conference, which was missnomer on every one of
those words. Nothing independent. They were with the Republicans. They
weren't Democrats, they were the Republicans. They weren't a conference.
They were just a people, a lot of conferring. And
the really shocking thing, though, is this was done with
no political accountability. For eight years, from twenty ten to
(05:09):
twenty eighteen, this was happening.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
And Cuomo did nothing to dissuade them.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Well, there's certainly speculation that he did things to influence them.
I'd say this, Andrew Cuomo is known to care about control.
And they announced on the day of his first date
of the State address, and they lived to tell the tale.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
But he never did anything publicly to change them.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
I only asked that because when the Moralmit Commission came
and went, I was flabbergasted, because I remember that the
Brennan Center at NYU Law School they would do a
report every year, and one year the report they there
was an evaluation of the fifty state legislatures in the
United States, and New York was forty ninth, just above
Louisiana in terms of its transparency and effectiveness and integrity.
(05:54):
So I mean I'm someone who's grown up in New York,
my whole life in New York State. I grew up
on Long Island. I've been in the city since seventy nine.
And you know you have a tough, jolegist view of Obany.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
Well, this is why I ran.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
You know, I'd say tough, but not cynical. You know,
it was right just a couple years after that report
that I ran. I ran against a thirty year incumbent,
a guy who had been the leader of the Democrats.
He'd been ousted by David Patterson on his way to
become governor. I was twenty eight years old at the time,
and you know, everyone said to me, this is the
worst place in politics, and I said, that's exactly what's.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
Appealing about it. A couple things.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
One, you can't underperform expectations, sort of the opposite of
what our mayor elect has. He's got very high expectations
to perform against. But secondly, if you can just improve
it nominally, the impact in the state and people's lives
will be so dramatic. And you know, we saw that
the moments of greatest competence were unbelievable. My first years
(06:51):
in office, two thousand and nine and ten, there's a
huge amount of stimulus money to deal with the financial
crisis from the federal government, and I chaired the Social
Service Committee, were able to create a billion dollars in
new social services programs, all of which were tested for
their effectiveness and some of which still continue today. And
Riquomo deserves credit for in twenty elevens, for six months,
(07:13):
you know, pulling a political rabbit out of the hat
and getting marriage equality passed in New York with Republicans
having the Numerican majority and the additional majority with those
turncoat Democrats. When state government rises above its most dysfunctional instincts,
the outcomes are unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Now, you had a long career in magazines and publishing,
I did, yes, and you did that for how many
years were you in that business? Twenty oh No, probably
more like ten.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
I started my career in magazines at Rosy Magazine, Rosi
o'donald's magazine.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
How was that? Someone? Was it? That was formerly McCalls.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
It was formerly McCalls.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
How does Rosi o'donald take over McCall's. What does that work? Well?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Oprah magazine launched with Hurst and then Gruner and Yar,
which was the publisher company that owned McCall's, was kind
of looking for a way to jazz it up a bit,
and Rosie O'Donnell on the cover had sold the most
issues anytime she was on the cover. It was just phenomenal.
Her talk show was on, and so eventually they made
a deal with her to take over the magazine and
make it hers, and then she was on every cover
(08:17):
after that, And that was where I had my first job.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
And when you just started to leave the public, I
just this is great as written for publications such as Seventeen, Glamour, Teen, Vogue,
Self More, Cosmo, Girl, Red Book, Family Circle, Fitness, Parenting, Brides,
The New York Observer, New York Magazine, Ladies' Home Journal,
Life and Style. I'm like, what base didn't you touch
(08:42):
going around the bags there? What's the difference. What's the
difference running for women's magazine on men's magazine in terms
of your writing skills?
Speaker 3 (08:50):
You know, I think I wrote a lot about lifestyle things,
and I wrote a lot about psychology. I mean, I
was really mining my own experiences women in their twenties,
and honestly, back then, magazines really didn't write about women
much older than their twenties and thirties. I remember asking
my colleagues like, where do all the forty year olds go?
(09:11):
Because it felt like there wasn't a voice for them
until there were some older women's magazines created, like More.
But back then, it really was what experiences were we living.
It was dating, it was psychology, it was all the
things that we were experiencing. First jobs, job changing, all
that stuff. But I really found my voice in teen magazines.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
I don't know why.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Well, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
If my internal dialogue was always set somewhere around seventeen,
but when I started working at a teen magazine, that's
when I started realizing, like, oh, this is my audience,
this is who I want to talk to. I think
it's partly because teenagers are fans. They're just fans of
what they're reading, about, what they're into. They're so enthusiastic
about life.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
When they like something, they.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Like it absolutely. I loved that energy, and that's really
why I started writing young adult novels too, because there's
such a universal experience when you're a teenager, and the
irony is that every teenager thinks no one has ever
felt this way before.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
I alone, I don't know this.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
And feel this way. And the truth is everybody's felt
that way before. So there's a lot to write about
and a lot to mine, and a lot of deep
caring among that audience.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Now, what happened? What year are we talking about when
you transition.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Over to politics as well? Really, in the fall of
twenty sixteen, you know, something happened. Donald Trump was elected
for the first time. And back then I was just
writing young adult novels and middle grade novels, so getting
even younger with my writing. And I realized that I
hadn't been involved in the democracy and that something had
(10:46):
happened that I couldn't believe. And so I spent the
month after Donald Trump was elected kind of looking for
ways to plug in and do something that was meaningful,
and I couldn't find any. I was casting about, I
was sending you know, I was making those five calls
a day, I was sending notes to Schumer. I was
doing all these things, but I couldn't figure out no. No,
(11:07):
I was just writing as a constituent. I was saying,
please help with this, How can I do this? Whare
well the form letters?
Speaker 1 (11:14):
You know?
Speaker 3 (11:15):
But it all felt a little bit like you know,
peering in windows at rooms I couldn't quite see, and
I could not figure out how to insert myself into
the democracy in a way that would help until I
went to a publishing holiday party in December of twenty
sixteen in Brooklyn Heights and I heard Daniel speak.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
So he was the bait. The ideas were the bait.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Yeah, the ideas and a little bit of a challenge
which he is wont to throw around. I think sometimes,
you know, he really He started talking about state governments.
He started talking about how everything we care about is
decided in state capitals, not in Washington, d C. He
was talking about education, funding, environmental policy, healthcare, civil rights,
voting rights, abortion even back then, jerrymandering, all of those things.
(12:00):
And he connected the dots for a bunch of things
that hadn't made sense to me from the Obama years,
like the bathroom bills passing all over the country, starting
with Raleigh, and the standard ground gun laws starting in Tallahassee,
letting Traymon Martin's murder go free, then starting a spreading
to twenty six states. I started to realize, like, these
things are happening in state capitals. I don't know the
(12:20):
names of those lawmakers. There are fifty many congresses around
this country, and I haven't been paying attention to any
of them, not even my own. The night after I
heard him speak, I googled who is my state Senator
on the way home and figured out that I had
never heard of my state senator. I'd had no eyes
on Albany at all. But I thought of myself as
a pretty well informed person, so I realized this was
(12:41):
a place I could plug.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
In going to this meeting with him. You went to
a meeting of future now.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
No, you know what it was. It was a publishing
holiday party. It was a party that happened every year.
It was like one of the best parties of the year,
this big brownstone in Brooklyn Heights. And I thought I
was just going to the party, but we were all
feeling pretty down because, yes, because of Trump, the.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
State project hadn't been launched.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
I was.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
I was just the local state senator at that time
who had been invited to speak at a holiday party.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Then won't you speak about what?
Speaker 4 (13:13):
Well? That was a good question.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
That was what they wanted, because you know, I was
in office nine years and no other point was ever
invited to anyone's holiday party as the politician to speak.
There were times I was asked not to come to
people's holiday parties for fear I would speak about politics
and so the But you know, the invitation actually happened
to be my son's third birthday. Was my wife's friend's
friend who invited me, who's actually a wonderfully successful novelist.
(13:38):
And I didn't really want to go at eight o'clock
after putting my three year old to bed on his birthday.
But I also figured, you know, I'm a stage senator.
Beggars can't be choosers here. They want to hear me.
I'm going to go. I'm going to do my thing.
No one's going to listen. And so I went, and
I basically said, you know, if you feel like you're
(13:59):
not meeting the moment, that's correct. If you feel like
you're an observer to the destruction of the democracy, that's right.
There is a thing you.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Could do good with a cheery holiday message.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
And if the people in this room committed themselves for
a year to changing the direction of a state, they could.
It often costs less to change power in a state
legislature than a single congressional district. And then I said,
you know, and you know, I hope you'll do it.
If you really, we can save this country. You are
a part of it, but you need to choose to
be strategic and to look where your impact will be,
(14:32):
not where your glamour is. Then I stopped speaking. There's
a jazz Era microphone there. The jazz band starts coming up,
and I figured I'll do one loop around the room.
Maybe there's some constituents here, maybe someone will thank me
for the recent traffic light. And Melissa and another young
adult author stop me, and her friend Gail Foreman, says.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
We can do it.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
What can you do?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I kind of try to move away. Melissa blocks the
other side and say no, we're going to raise one
hundred thousand dollars and what do we do next? And
I said, you know what, here's my email. Email me
if you're still interested in this. On Monday, and I
decided not to do a walk through of the party,
I turned around and went home. I actually went home,
turned on Saturday Night Live and you were the cold
open playing Donald Trump doing a social media I just
(15:15):
got to eat doing a social media gambit, And I
thought to myself. I actually remember, I thought to myself, like,
now that's how people engage politics, this state legislative thing.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Never Yeah, Now describe for me. I'll ask you this question,
and we're both of you, but you first, Melissa, and
that is so future. Now describe what that was and
over what period of time does it morph into states?
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Honestly from my journey, you know, I started what we
started to call a giving circle with a bunch of
other children's book authors and we decided that we would
try to focus on a state, just like Daniel had
said we wouldn't do. And when we had amassed a
bunch of pledges together, we called them back and said
we're ready to do this. We've got pledges, we just
need your guidance on where to go and how to
(15:57):
do this. And he said, okay, well not a minute,
and a bunch of other things happened too, including you
met Adam Pritzker, and that summer Daniel resigned from the
State Senate to start Future Now, which is now the
State's Project, and start focusing on state legislatures, and we
became the first giving circle to support the electoral work
(16:19):
of the States Project. So that was fall twenty seventeen
was giving.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Circle for my listeners is just it's just fundraising.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Yeah, it's a group of people coming together. It's actually fundraising,
but it's also a lot of learning. None of us
had any idea about state legislatures grams you can learn. Yeah,
once we started getting together and learning about, you know,
how much power they had and how you know, from
twenty ten to twenty sixteen, Democrats had lost nearly a
thousand state legislative seats as Carl Rove and Project Red
(16:48):
Map got into action and flipped all those seats and
then took over state houses and state senates and really
made people's lives bad. Defunded education, put in right to
work laws, gutted environmental protections, and most people blame what
they can see and the spotlight stays on Washington, DC,
the President and maybe Congress. So once people started seeing that,
light bulbs went off in their heads and they were
(17:10):
ready to say, yeah, i'll give an annual donation for this.
This seems like something I can actually impact. And that's
how we started our giving circle, learning together and giving together.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
How about you when you started future Now, what was
the goal?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
So I can't tell you how surprised I was that
they took me up on the challenge. I wasn't being cute.
I really thought no one had. Probably I'd made a
similar speech one hundred times before, and it really changed me.
I could not stop talking about it. In this moment
with Trump, maybe people will finally be willing to be
strategic and focused till everyone I knew about it. Adam
(17:44):
Pritzker was selling his first business. He knew two people
in New York politics, and they both said, well, you
want to do something really interesting. He's a very interesting thinker,
wander something interesting. You should meet this guy who's got
this strange obsession with giving circles for state legislatures and
kind of want to do something in Virginia this year.
Virginia's your elections. So Adam and I met, and to
my shock, he said, this is great. Like I don't
(18:05):
want to go just do something. I said, you know
you're not going to get credit for it because it's
state legislators.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Said I know, but.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
It's really this is he was seed money.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Lots smart. He said, let's do it together. I'll make
it possible. I'll see it. You have to resign to
do it full time, and let's partner up and let's
see how we can.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Prime to resign by then. Any Way, according to your
remarks about Albany.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Look, I was certainly extremely frustrated with how much a
single politician could do to change the system, especially as
it felt like the democracy was starting to crumble. Now,
my district was the greatest district on earth. It was
Lower Manhattan and parts of Brooklyn. You know, I had
the Statue of Liberty Allis Island, both sides of the
Brooklyn Bridge World Trade Center site. You tight in New
(18:46):
York City into a map, it Pushban came down right
in the middle of that district. I was never tired
of that district. But there are two things. As an
elected official, your best job is to take what comes
and try to make good decisions, try to improve it
on the margins, or to serve your constituents and what
they need. That was an incredible way to spend ten years.
But this is a systems problem. This lack of attention
(19:08):
to state legislature is their potential to either be a
source to destroy the democracy or improve it. And when
Adam and Melissa and her first giving circle together made
it possible to do something that really also wasn't partisan.
The other thing that was important to Adam is this
is not about party. Obviously, you need to choose in
a two party system in each election who's better. But
(19:28):
it's about these outcomes in the world that you talk
about that when you really look at it on paper,
States can deliver and no one's trying except for the
radical right, who was, by the way, doing a damn
good job of it.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Daniel's Squadron and Melissa Walker of the States Project. If
you enjoy conversations about New York City history and preservation,
check out my episode with Rob Snyder of The Island
Institute and Andrew Berman of the Greenwich Village Society for
Historic Preservation.
Speaker 5 (20:04):
We need to have affordable housing all throughout New York City.
The problem is that the approach that a lot of
people take is instead of saying we need affordable housing,
let's build affordable housing, they say, well, we need to
unleash the market and build as much market rate housing
as possible, flood the market, and then that's going to
bring the prices down for everybody. The way to get
(20:25):
affordable housing is to build affordable housing and to keep
the affordable housing that you have, which we're losing at
a breakneck pace.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
To hear more of my conversation with Rob Snyder and
Andrew Berman, go to Here's the Thing dot org. After
the break, Daniels Squadron, and Melissa Walker share how the
State's Project operates beyond New York State and targets all
ninety nine legislative chambers in the country. I'm Alec Baldwin,
(21:02):
and this is Here's the Thing. When Melissa Walker first
met Daniel's Squadron in twenty sixteen, she was inspired to
start her own giving circle to help raise funds for
local state legislatures. In twenty eighteen, she co founded a
giving circle for the States Project to help engage networks
(21:23):
and raise funds towards the goal of creating political change
at the state level. I was curious how these giving
circles have evolved over time.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
The first year we started doing it, there were twenty
eight giving circles all in New York and really just
kind of along my walking paths in Brooklyn and Manhattan.
It was people who were gathered in cafes writing postcards
to voters, and I would kind of knock on the
window and say, can I talk to you about state legislatures,
because what I thought happened every time I walked into
one of those rooms was I said, I know you're
(21:55):
trying to impact what's happening in this country, and I'm
about to tell you a way that you can have
an impact that you never thought was possible, and people
would really light up at it and think to themselves,
maybe I can do this, Because you know, I wasn't
someone I was writing one young adult novel a year
and for many many magazines, as you noted. But I
wasn't someone who could host a senator in my living room,
(22:17):
you know. But I was someone who could gather ten
friends over for pizza and wine and everyone pulled some
dollars and actually change what's happening in a state legislature.
Who's in the majority. And that first year, we raised
around one hundred thousand dollars for Virginia, and they have
odd year elections. We were trying to flip ten seats
that year to change the balance of power in the
(22:38):
House of Delegates. We funded the final campaign gaps for
ten of the ten candidates. Nine of them won their seats,
and the balance of power got so close to flipping
just one seat away from flipping entirely that the next
year of Virginia expanded Medicaid, four hundred thousand people got
healthcare who hadn't had it before, and we felt connected
to that policy outcome, and everyone who'd given any amount
(22:59):
to my giving circle said, let's do this again. Let's
choose another state with the State's Project and do this again.
And so that's when I started Giving Circles program with
the States Project, because it was the most impactful thing
I'd ever done. It was the most you know, energized
I felt, and I really felt like what we were
doing was making a difference, and that feeling has gotten
(23:20):
stronger every single year.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
But in that way that you can harness that kind
of thing, I mean for you with the Giving circles,
is it like do you make sure people don't come
unless you know what they're going to give? No?
Speaker 3 (23:33):
No, really, I mean it's it's kind of fascinating. So
when I started doing this work, I had a friend
a couple months in say, oh, how's the fundraising going?
And I said, I'm not fundraising, I'm flipping state legislatures.
And she was like, through fundraising, right, And I was like,
oh am I fundraising, Oh my gosh. And I really
still kind of approach it that way. I want everyone
(23:55):
in a room to really understand how power works in
this country and how foundational state legislatures are to that power,
and I hope they all leave with that kind of knowledge,
and I hope they all leave with enough kind of
tidbits to spread that knowledge a little bit. And then yeah,
there's an ask in the room. But I have found
(24:15):
that not having a minimum and not having a maximum
can really do the most for a room, because it's
never with giving circles about one room. It's about seeding
something in a room and raising some dollars, but then
spreading those seeds out among the people who were there
to host the next room and the next room and
the next room or a lunch they want me to
come to with someone who's really important. And that way
(24:37):
it has spread so much more organically, I think than
those kind of one off political events.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
And this is one of the big differences. I don't
think there's a single person who says I love political fundraisers.
Occasionally you're glad you got the picture and the grip
and grin line so that you can show everyone else,
but no one had a good time. That's true in
a small one, it's true in a big one. The
difference with the giving circles and with Melissa's sometimes it's
been difficult for me. Insistence that it's not just about
(25:03):
fundraising is that it's actually a good time because you're
actually going And there are two things happening that never
happen at a political fundraiser. The first is you're actually
learning something, you're not just scoring the pall on how
much they can tell you what you want to hear.
And the second is you're doing something that feels like
(25:24):
you discovered the best next band that no one's heard of.
And so you show up thinking you're going to be
a political fundraiser, and you walk out with a totally
new perspective on American politics that, by the way, happens
to be true, and like a little bit of like
an insider in the kind of cred that you can
carry with you everywhere you go. And if there was
(25:45):
a minimum, if everyone was there, it was like here's
the two fifty, here's the thousand dollars check, it wouldn't
be that, it wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Be the same. I believe that again, harnessing that energy.
People want to think it matters. People want to give,
they want a care, they want to help, they want
to learn, they want to do all these things based
on one really horrible thing, and that is that they've
completely lost faith in the government of this country. Exactly,
they have completely lost faith. You only come when you
(26:12):
want something from me, and then once I vote for
you, you disappear and I never hear from you again. I
never hear from you again. And people are sick of that.
What's the path? Now? With the giving circles, you raise
some money, you educate people, you have a good speaker,
somebody who's really really interesting and informed, and so forth,
and then the money goes where where does it go? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:34):
So with giving circles, they get to choose the target
state from our list of targets that they'd like to impact,
not just.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Their home state.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Correct, that's right, iortant yep. So we are only in
states where we see a threshold of power that needs
defending or that we think can be challenged.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
So, for example, we just finished up this year working
in Virginia because it again has odd year elections, working
on the House of delegates. So many of the giving
circles working this year were focused on Virginia, and when
they give money to the giving circle, one hundred percent
of the amount that's raised by the giving circle goes
out the door to the state. And we are working
in the state as the State's Project with the State Caucus,
(27:13):
the Virginia House Democrats and working on targeting the set
of districts that are possible to win to shift power.
This case, we were trying to deepen power. We had
a one seat majority that we won by nine hundred
and seventy five votes in twenty twenty three, so trying
to deepen that majority this year, protect it and deepen it.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
I went down there, went door to door the last election.
Good for you get with people for the American way.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Yeah, I mean, it's it was really important. It was
a really important thing to do, partially because there was
a governor's race too, and there was a chance just
on Tuesday to make Virginia a trifecta, meaning control of
the governor's mansion, majority in the House and majority in
the Senate. And that was achieved on Tuesday, and Virginia
became the sixteenth.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
Divenment a trifecta.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Yes, absolutely, sixteenth democratic trifecta in the country, and that
has a lot of power to not only do things
to improve Virginian's lives, but also to impact the entire country.
And that really was made possible by the State's Project's investment,
which was the largest investment of any national group.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
And who with the State's Project or someone you're affiliated with,
is doing the strategic research as to where the money
is going to go.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
So our team does that, you know. I think another
barrier to people getting involved in politics, giving money let
himself become emotionally invested, is the feeling that it will
be wasted, that campaigns don't really matter, or they just
enrich consultants, someone's cousin, whatever it is. And so that's
a barrier we need to help people get across. We
have a whole internal team that is constantly looking actually
(28:48):
at all ninety nine legislative chambers in the country. As
I'm sure you and all your listeners know, Nebraska is
a unicameral state, but every other state has a House
and a Senate, and so they're looking at all ninety
nine of those legislative chambers trying to figure out out
both which chambers could be flipped, but also which seats
and which candidates are most likely to do so, and
(29:08):
then trying to figure out the most effective ways to
spend money so that those dollars are well spent to
communicate with voters and convince people. And you know, one
of the things that they've found that we found is
in state legislative elections, getting candidates off the phones, raising
money from special interests and out knocking on doors in
(29:28):
their communities is an incredible way to win elections and
do something about corruption. And so the way to think
about it is there's going to be money in politics.
The state's project program, make sure that money is well spent,
but also that the candidate is not being asked to
do something. We don't have a litmus test other than one,
(29:53):
serve your constituents, they are the ones who hired you. Two,
do you believe in the American promise, the idea that
it's self evident all people are aated equal with the
right to life, liberty in the pursuit of happiness, and
government secures those rights with the consent of the government.
And then go work for the people who you want
to represent.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Now, why is Nebraska the only unicameral. You blew my mind.
Why is that the only unicameral.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
It got it got shifted.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
So you know, the requirement in the Constitution is that
all of the states have a quote republican form of
government small R not party although I think exactly and so,
actually a bunch of states were already bi cameral as
of the time the US government was created, and then
there was a move sort of in the progressive era
(30:39):
that unicameral would be better. Only Nebraska did it sort
of play a plan's progressivism. There's actually some real arguments
for it. The relationship between the legislature and the governor
is very different in a unicameral LEGI when you need
two chambers, the governor can play them off each other
and increase their power significantly. A gubernatorial veto, just as
an example, is much easier to override in a single
(31:01):
chamber than a bicameral.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
What do they call the members of the unicamer senators?
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Yes, I mean they're politicians.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
You don't think they wanted to call themselves a separate
members as a former senator of Upper House matters. But
the other interesting thing is it's the only nonpartisan legislature.
So while people have parties, they run on a non
partisan ticket. So as recently as twenty nineteen, members of
the Nebraska Senate supermajority Republicans. The number three most powerful
(31:29):
person in that chamber was a Democrat, even though a
supermajority of Republicans. The different possibilities for a different kind
of partisanship across the fifty states, I mean, you would
really lose all your listeners.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
But is fascinating now is there a state that you
basically said us of don't bother. You wouldn't even bother
going down there to try to influence the state legislations
is so conquetized.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
So you know, it's actually not a light question at
all because I would argue that the Democratic Party and
progressive activiststs have basically been sending the message we don't
need all the states for a number of years now,
The idea that we're letting the competition partisan or ideological
competition in places like Idaho just whether on the vine.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
For years.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Were in Mississippi. Hopefully that's now shifting. We were in
Mississippi in twenty nineteen. You know, it's an incredible state
with a really interesting political history. Obviously very ugly one
as well, but also some hope in it. We were
able to help a candidate, I think, outperform what she
had done the year before the election before by seventy
(32:37):
points to win the election. So I would say there's
some cultures that you wouldn't want to get involved in.
I think that maybe for non New Yorkers people might
think the New York political culture is one of those.
But there is no state where we shouldn't be saying
at a time when you have a political movement that
wants to undermine democracy, we should be able to build
a coalition that's pro democracy, including by the way, if
(33:00):
you have an R by your name on the ballot,
not just a D.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Now, when you were doing that, just like in the Senate,
you were you were Brooklyn and at that timely Manhattan.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
So I never lived in Manhattan.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
When I was in the legislature, I was considered very
Manhattan because two thirds of my district was Manhattan and
how I come across. But I actually grew up in
the Bronx and lived in Work. I've never lived in
Manhattan a day in my life.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
The Bronx andwhere riverdaleah exactly, Oh, yeah, your dad, as
we raise everybody, got it? Got it? Got it? Would
you say that when you do these projects? Because when
I was there at the thing that you both were attending,
that was Sarah Jessica was there and Jasmith Cameron and
so forth, and I went to that event, which I'm
very glad I went to, although there was that again
hallucinatory moment when I was like, I've heard this before,
(33:44):
if I heard this before, but do you find that
it's easier to corral women than it is meant?
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Yeah, I mean I find that, yes, giving circles are
largely led by women, and they are organizing other women.
There are some men who lead giving circles with us,
but I would say eighty percent of our leaders are women.
And it's really an exercising organizing people. So I always
say it's you know, it's the person who's organizing the
(34:11):
pot luck, it's the person who started the book club,
it's the person who hosts the dinner parties, it's the
person who brings people together.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
That women are more organize them men.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
I mean, I'm just saying I think there's there's a
community building aspect to it that really is tends to
be women and for the most.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Part, Daniel's Squadron and Melissa Walker of the States Project.
If you're enjoying this conversation, tell a friend and be
sure to follow Here's the Thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify,
or wherever you get your podcasts. When we come back,
(34:47):
Daniel's Squadron and Melissa Walker discuss how the States Project
was able to flip twelve state seats in Pennsylvania in
twenty twenty two with the help of giving circles. I'm
(35:09):
Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. As
a New York State senator, Daniel's Squadron focused on many
important public policy and funding issues. Among his many contributions
were federal funding for public housing, ethics and campaign finance reform,
and public parks projects on the Lower east Side, Governor's
(35:31):
Island and the Brooklyn Bridge Park. I wanted to know
more about Squadron's desire to protect open spaces and how
he worked to save Brooklyn Bridge Park from developments. Well.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Originally the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey State,
well a bi state agency. Actually there is a state
public state level, and then the conversion and it was
in the district I was running for, and the plan
to get it funded was to build luxury housing in
the limits of the park and have the tax dollars
from that housing fund the park. I had real concerns
(36:07):
about that because I think that privatizing public space with
parochial local interests is a serious Actually, it's the same
thing that's now become sort of the Nimby question when
it comes to housing. But I think you see it
with open space all over the place as well.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
It's what did they wind up doing? Did they build
luxury housing?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
So they did, so I was able to delay it
to reduce it, and you know it. It's actually Brooklynbridge
Park is working really well because, in a way I
underestimated it's so popular all of us. It was so
popular that there's no parochial interest that could take it over.
So there are people who live in brooklyn Bridge Park.
You ask anyone who does, they're sure their tax dollars
(36:46):
go to brooklyn Bridge Park. But the political constituency and
the folks who designed it, Regina Meyer, who ran it
when it was first getting built and opened, really to
their credit, built a park that would draw people in
even who could never still live in Brooklyn Heights, and
that has, in a way I underestimated, allowed it to
be a truly public space. It also, i would say,
(37:07):
is by far the best funded public amenity maybe in
the history of all humanity because of what's happened to
real estate.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
So the land was owned by the joint authorities and
they sold it to the developer to build the house.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Now, before I ever came an office, the Port Authority
transferred it to a public corporation that was controlled by
the state at the time. All of the land is
on ground leases with the developers still owned by the state.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
But part of this whole in theatre buildings are just
renting the land.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yes, but under long term leases and leases. And actually,
another thing we did that I'm really proud of and
we were able to do in Governor's Island too, is
change the governance structure so instead of some by state
no accountability. In both cases, we were able to negotiate
with the Bloomberg administration and the governor at the time,
Governor Patterson, so that the city controls Brooklyn Bridge Park,
(37:56):
the Mayor's responsible, the city controls Governor's Island, the Mayor's
responsible sort of like what you see in the arrow
control of the schools. And one reason I think those
both of those parks have done so well is is
mayors care about making them better in a way you
never would if it was this alphabet soup that we're
talking about.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Now. The land was leased by the developers. They built
and erected housing, their high end housing, and they kept
the money they profited from them from leases they got
with did they pay so the only thing they paid
They didn't pay a big on the housing or do
you guys say paid taxes?
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Now they did so, I mean, so there's a bunch
of different types of housing there. So there's a rental unit,
there's a building that was a huge conversion, that warehouse
that you might sort of be able to picture at
Peer five there. And then there's some new developments that
were built, one of which is actually one hundred percent affordable.
Actually the Blosoo administration and I both supported that. So
there's a mix. There was some cost to the ground lease,
(38:54):
but mostly there had They have something called pilots payments
and lieu of taxes, so they don't pay property taxes
to the city. The property DEXes for those all of
that housing funds the park directly.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
So the city and of the state have realized some
money from the sale of this property. The housing.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
I'd say the city doesn't the city treasury doesn't have
to pay to keep Brooklyn Bridge Park going and being
the it's funded by this mechanism.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
And then and then the land that the park is on,
there was there was no park there.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
I know there were. There was Peers. It was it
was Peers that had been basically in disuse since the containerization.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
And where do the mochi have developed the park?
Speaker 2 (39:31):
So that was capital money that was part of the
deal we made to give the city control. The Bloomberg
administration put a really large amount of capital investment in
as part of the deal to take control of the park.
There's a board that has seventeen appointments on it.
Speaker 4 (39:47):
So if so you.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Know who appoints them, hocel Well, I want to.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Tell you because we made the deal. So obviously the
local state senator has an appointment and I.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Knew him once and what did he do? And the
ones walking around lost in Manhattan.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
The local assembly member, the local city council member, the
Brooklyn Borough president, the governor still has a few appointments,
and the mayor has a large number. The best thing
to do with a five year old in New York
City is get on one of those public ferries. Take
it to Governor's Island, spend Little Ham Gover Island, get
back on the ferry. Take it to Brooklyn Bridge Park,
Go get some ice cream, Get back on the ferry,
take it back to Manhattan. Think of a day where,
(40:21):
like you know, you spend less than ten dollars and
maybe twenty dollars with the ice cream cone, and you
experienced the greatest view, the greatest community on earth.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
My wife and I take my kids to Saint George
all the time. My kids would love to go on
the ferry and they'd seen to me, you know you
rode the ferry, Dad, But when you were young, did
you ride the ferries? Like? Yeah, when I was in
I used to ride the ferry. Then I could have
had to cut the story short because it involved me
smoking a joint, drinking a bottle of wine, turning around,
coming back and going to Woe Hop in Chinatown, and
it was blowing it out.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
On the Dollar Miller high lifes on the All Staten Island,
ferry ferry with the dollar highlight.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
We got as wasted as that was glorious of liberty.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
So it was so for Agia.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Yeah, I remember I woke up to the ferry with
my kids and I go, where do I pay? I
hadn't been on the ferry of fifteen years, and I
welcome to the like ten cops in a huddle, and
I go where do I pay? And I goes ferries free,
mister Boldbyn ferries free. I go what he goes? Yeah,
it's free. That's another thing I can save money with.
Mid We're going on the ferry again. Yeah, come on,
come on, get your coats on. Now, what is your
(41:24):
goal in the coming years or even months. What's the
goal in terms of you want to just continue a
long or is there another goal? You have a broader
goal you have?
Speaker 3 (41:33):
Yeah, I mean so we now have over two hundred
giving circles working with the state's pormationwise nationwide. Correct. And
my goal really with that program is to keep everyone
who's in it on a steady course, not in this
kind of reactive politics that makes us all so tired,
but to keep them moving steadily and focused strategically on
(41:54):
these particular nodes of power where they can have impact.
You know, these are races that are decided on the
mark rgins, and these giving circles are actually impacting results
not just of single elections, but who is holding the
majority in states. And you know, twenty twenty two Pennsylvania
is a great example. We were able to flip twelve
(42:14):
seats that year with the help of Giving circles and
we got the final twelfth seat by sixty three votes.
Sixty three votes shifted power in Harrisburg that year. And
I believe that every single Giving Circle that chose Pennsylvania
that year was responsible for that victory because if one
of them hadn't been there organizing a living room in
a backyard, a gathering or a zoom room, then I'm
(42:36):
not sure we would have gotten those last sixty three
votes to shift power. So when I meet a new
Giving Circle leader, what I say to them is that
they are turning on the porch light for strategic political
giving or their communities. And my goal is to make
sure that people have a focus and people have a
place where they feel like they're making a difference, and
that's what the Giving Circles program does. So staying in
(42:57):
it staying steady, not being reacted to politics, but really
focusing on where they can have an impact foundationally for
the country, and then spreading that to other people, saying
who else in your community should have a giving circle?
Who else is feeling like there's nothing they can do.
We do not have to be witnesses to what's happening
in our democracy. We have power, especially when we gather
(43:19):
people and do it together, and so giving circles are
never about what one person can give, but the magical
math problem of bringing people together to learn about this,
have a focus, and strategically work with us to target
specific seats.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
I love when I went to the meeting both meetings,
the one at Rothman's house that I first went with
you guys was a bit smaller, and that other one,
that woman who was the host in that magnificent carriage
house of us that was like, oh my god, I'll
give money to I and come back here and have
some more candipas and some sparkling war or know her
house was stunning. But the idea being that you know,
finding people I guess nationwide, who are States Project's material.
(43:56):
My question for you is what's the budget of States Project?
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Now roughly in the twenty twenty four cycle, we were
the largest outside state legislative effort in the history of
the country. We raised more than seventy million dollars over
that two year cycle. And you know, it's it's a
lot of money. But when you think of the fact
that a single congressional race nowadays cost about twenty five
million or is, you know, they're spending twenty five million dollars,
(44:22):
you're talking about less than the cost of three or
four congressional races. To have candidates who believe in America
and believe in democracy free to go meet their voters
around the country in every state, it matters, and giving circles,
including ones that raise cumulatively five thousand dollars in contributions
(44:42):
of fifty dollars at a time or raised ten times,
that are often the single biggest giver in one of
these races in a smaller state like New Hampshire or Maine.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
So the budget of states projects is what per year.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
It's a two year cycle, so almost the vast major
the money goes out to actually be contributed to campaigns.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
And I'm sure the initiative of quesse so low, but
how many people in the staff fourteen people. Great, and
your office is.
Speaker 4 (45:08):
Where totally remote?
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Unfortunately, totally remote. You don't want an office, no.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
I said, unfortunate. I mean because I love, actually love
our team and when we get to be at worse,
when we got to be.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
In personal, did they have an office prior?
Speaker 2 (45:18):
We had an office before COVID, but then as we
were growing during the COVID period, we started hiring people
from around the country and now.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
My kids, you can have my apartment.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
If you can convince our team to move to New
York by doing happy hours for them once a week,
I'll take it.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
I'll take a look at it. Yeah, you know, when
I saw you guys speak the first time, I mean,
I think a lot of people have the same idea
of there's a collective consciousness, and they have a variation
of the same idea of like, well, let's go, let's
work the states. I think what you're doing is really
the only meaningful work that could be done right now.
We're more meaningful in that way.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
Well, it gives me a lot of hope to work
on these campaigns where the main thing is we want
you to go door to door and talk to the people.
In your community, right, we want you to We want
you to listen. We want you to talk about the
traffic patterns and the grass on the softball field and
the local school. And that is how you connect with
people as a neighbor. And you do that persuasion knocking,
(46:15):
talking to people like a neighbor. That to me is
part of the connective tissue that's been missing. And it's
really heartening to be able to work on campaigns where
that is a main tactic, because that person to person
contact is so effective and so important for healing people
in this really disconnected time.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
I'm really sympathetic to people who are discouraged by politics,
and I actually sometimes think how hopeless about politics must
people have been to vote for this guy again, knowing
what they were getting.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
But knowing.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
But it's on those of us who are doing this
full time, on those of us who care about the democracy,
to make it less hopeless, to make it seem worthwhile.
That's not going to happen by watching more cable news
or spending more time on social media. It's not going
to happen by choosing you Burger King McDonald's Republicans or
(47:10):
Democrats in the national conversation. When you get into states,
you start feeling like, Wow, I have power in this democracy.
Wow that thing that made no sense suddenly I understand.
And most importantly, things really can change for the better.
And I just want people to have that chance, because
(47:33):
being discouraged and being hopeless is the end of the democracy,
whether it's this guy or someone else, and knowing you're
a part.
Speaker 4 (47:40):
Of it is the hope.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
My thanks to Daniel Squadron and Melissa Walker. This episode
was recorded at CDM Studios in New York City. We're
produced by Kathleen Musso, Zach MacNeice, and Victoria de Martin.
Our engineers Frank Imperial. Our social media manager is Danielle Gingrich.
I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the Thing is brought to you
(48:06):
by iHeart Radio.
Host
Alec Baldwin
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