July 15, 2025 • 39 mins
Jake Tapper is a journalist, news anchor, author, and the current lead Washington anchor for CNN. Tapper hosts the weekday news show, The Lead with Jake Tapper, and co-hosts the Sunday morning public affairs program, State of the Union. At CNN, Tapper has won numerous journalism awards, including Emmy Awards in 2023 and 2024. He also played a key role in ABC News’ Emmy Award-winning coverage of the 2009 inauguration of President Barack Obama and Edward R. Murrow Award winning coverage of the death of Osama bin Laden. In addition to his reporting career, Tapper is also a New York Times bestselling author of several novels and nonfiction books, such as The Outpost: An Untold Story of American Valor and his most recent book, Original Sin, co-written with Alex Thompson. His bestselling novels include The Hellfire Club and The Devil May Dance.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the
Thing from iHeart Radio. My guest today is a journalist, author,
and news anchor, widely recognized for his sharp political interviews
and moderating recent US presidential debates. Jake Tapper is currently
the Washington anchor for CNN and weekday host of the
(00:26):
Lead with Jake Tapper. He is also co host of
the Sunday morning political roundtable State of the Union. Tapper's
work as a broadcast journalist has earned him two Emmy Awards.
He is also a recipient of the prestigious Edward R.
Murrow Award for Outstanding Achievements in Broadcast and Digital Journalism.
(00:47):
In addition to his work as a reporter, Jake Tapper
is also a best selling author of political thrillers and nonfiction,
known for his directness and tough critique. Curious how Jake
Tapper would critique himself?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, brutally. There's no one that I'm tougher on than me,
is the truth. I'm a flagellator, a self flagellator, Like
as if it's one of those scenes that you see
in Iran every now and then where Shia are flagellating themselves.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
It is.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
It is a daily event. No one is tougher on
me than me.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Your career is so vast, all the writing and the
work you did before you landed it to ABC first
we were on camera first with ABC or somebody else.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Full time ABC? Yeah, I mean there was there's little
things here and there, but full time job, yes, ABC News.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Do you go back to look at your work and
evaluate yourself to try to fix it?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Well, I'm lucky enough that I have a daily show
so that every possible mistake I could make is pointed
out to me in real time.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
By do they really give you a direction?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
By the no, by I'm talking about like the masses on.
So I tend to think that my flaws as a
broadcaster are more in holding back than in going in
too much. There there are times that I think I
went too far, but generally speaking, there is the imperative
in broadcasting that you know and you know this, but like, okay,
(02:19):
we got to take a commercial break, Okay, we got
on to the next. Like it's almost as if you
as soon as you have a guest, even if it's
a huge guest, there's almost like an excitement for it
to be over. That's just like cable news. So sometimes
I get too wrapped up in what I'm being told
and not focused enough on what I'm experiencing and what
the interviewee is saying. And there are times that I
(02:43):
wish that I had plunged in more. The mistakes I
make tend to be one of three or four that
I make over and over and over again.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
So when you're doing the lead your show, your signature
show with CNN, are there producers or who work with
you they shaped the program or is the content of
the program essentially your call.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
It's a combination of both, but it's I mean, it's
without question, it's a huge team effort, like right now.
So I had my first call at eight thirty in
the morning with my two top producers, my executive producer
and my senior broadcast producer, and then we talk about
what we want to be in the show, and we
discuss things that we think need to be in the
show today. Obviously, as we're in the midst of this
(03:25):
presidential decision about whether or not to drop a massive
bomb on a mountain or a facility in Iran, and
so it's a little different than the average day, and
we talk about the guests that we already have lined up,
and we talk about what we want to ask them
or what I want to ask them, and then it
gets assigned to producers. And we have a producing team
(03:47):
of about twenty or so, and each person gets their
own assignment or two for a block or two, and
then we go over it all at roughly two hours
before the show, so three o'clock for a five o'clock show.
And sometimes I'm weighing in the whole time, and sometimes
I'm talking to people about what I want in there.
And obviously we adjust as the day goes on because
of news developing, such as a Supreme Court decision or whatever.
(04:10):
It's my show. But like with a team of smart
people who push back on me, who offer their ideas,
and in that conflict and tens, I think we get
to a good place.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Obviously, the show and your staff, your producers, and people
who do the show with you, they have bosses as well.
Do they leave you alone? When do you? I mean
you see what happened to Terry Moran? Are you left
alone by the powers that be? At Wanner Discovery?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Pretty much every now and David Zaslov would be the
big cheese sure, and then we have a new one
for the split that doing Gunner, but I don't talk
to them on a regular basis. It's more it would
be more Sir Mark Thompson, who's the head of CNN,
but even he is pretty hands off. And then there's
a layer of executives there too. It's more, here is
(04:57):
what we have, Here is what we have been putting
together with our reporters, and here's where we have reporters
on the scene, and this is what we think. But
you guys do your own shows, and that people might
suggest something like if I were leading today with a
story about the New York Mets or something, I'm sure
if people would say, what what are you doing? But
(05:18):
as a general rule, they leave us pretty much alone.
In terms of the Terry Moran thing, I don't get
a lot of feedback on my social media. I tend
to not opine as much. I tend to think that
if I have some thought, that it's better that I
do it on TV than if I do it on
social media. And that is a I think it's a
(05:39):
healthy way to do it, because A it means that
you can do it with the whole context and proving
the point you want with clips and with evidence. And
also it means that other people can have their eyeballs
on it and it can be the best presentation. And
I happen to think a good like four or five
minute piece that you might do or a tell or
like we're preparing one today for the decision that President
(06:02):
Trump has in front of him right now. And I
think that that would be better. I think that will
be better than if I just kind of just shared
my random thoughts on my own and put it on
social media.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Right right, Well, I mean, of course, people would go
to CNN for the news, yeah, and they wouldn't want
to watch breaking news, and they would watch MSNBC. If
you're of a certain leaning, you'd watch MSNBC for the commentary, right,
And people seem to pivot between the two. Do you
feel that that's still the case though, Do you feel
that people are coming to CNN largely for breaking news
(06:32):
and going to MSNBC for opinion or you don't think
that's any longer the case.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
We do have overlap with Fox and ms I think so.
I also think that there is a degree to which
sometimes people don't want to hear certain news, and so
they might go to a channel that preaches to the choir. Look,
the preaching to the choir business model or opinion slash
analysis business model is a lucrative one. I think that
I hope that there's always going to be room for
(06:58):
a news a case, news network. In these days we're broadcast.
News is not what it was ten years ago or
twenty years ago in terms of foreign coverage, in terms
of that sort of thing. I mean, I worked under
Peter Jennings at World News tonight and that was yeah,
and a very different show than what they put on now.
I hope that there is always going to be a
market for it. I don't know that there will be,
(07:20):
but I think and hope that there will be. But
we'll have to see. I mean, the world is evolving
in such crazy ways when it comes to the consumption
of all media. It's affecting your world as much as
it's affecting my world. It's affecting publishing. I've written seven books,
and the way that publishers look at ebooks and audiobooks
today is significantly different than five years ago. Now there
(07:44):
is this real recognition that people are not reading hardcover
books as much as they used to. That people are
listening to books and reading them on their phones is
just as much.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Now you are on the air during the week and
everybody I know watches your show. They're all fans of
the lead with you and CNN, and then you're on
on the weekend as well. Correct.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Yeah, I mean Dana Bash and I split State of
the Union on Sunday, So sometimes it's her, sometimes it's May.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
But yeah, different demographic for those shows, different producers.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yes, completely different team. I mean there's overlap in terms
of sometimes somebody will leave the lead and go work
with State of the Union or vice versa. But yes,
and different hours and a completely different task. A Sunday
show is one that is not necessarily as driven by
what is going on today. It's driven maybe more like
(08:30):
what's the conversation of the week. So for instance, Dana,
it's State of the Union earlier this week, and you know,
the story of that day was Iran. But she covered
other things too that had gone including you know, legislation
and stuff on the hill. So it's a little bit
different that you also have more time to breathe. An
(08:51):
eight or nine minute interview on Sunday is fine. An
eight or nine minute interview on the lead during the
week is long.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, well you're doing this job now on the air.
You were with ABC on the air for how many.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Years from two thousand and two to twenty thirteen or
something like.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
That, right, and then even with ce an incense, Yes,
when you moved over.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Directly, I wanted to anchor. That's what I wanted to do.
And you you've anchored, so you know the joy and
the challenges of anchoring.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
But is it is it is played an anchor. No,
I'm kidding.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, well you know, but you anchored a show and
it was interesting. But you know what I mean, Like,
you want to anchor a show as opposed to report
for a show. And one of the reasons I wanted
to do it is so the reported pieces I do
could be as long as I wanted them to, as
opposed to well, as long as an anchor wanted them
to be.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
But when I did the show one I did for MSNBC,
I just wanted to do a straight interview show. My
model and I say this was no facetiousness. Was Tom Snyder.
Snider was a great interviewer. Yeah, well, I want to
have a nice hour long conversation with somebody who's worth
that investment of time, and not get anybody like you.
Tell me who you are, You tell me what people
(09:58):
aren't saying about You, tell me all about your work
and your view of it. This is a chance for
people to say whatever they wanted to say.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I don't know why that's gone. I agree with you
that Tom Snyder model, the Charlie Rose model, Tim Russer.
Tim Russer used to have a show like that on CNBC,
I think, and he would do extended interviews with people
who maybe didn't rise to the meet the press level,
like Donald Trump in the early aughts, and then you
(10:26):
could mind those interviews much later. And in fact, at
one point I was talking to Jeff Zuker when he
was my boss at CNN, about would I do a
show like that at HLN back when HLN still was
what HLN was, and just so there would be a
show where we could do extended hour long interviews. And
it was a really interesting idea and then it just
never happened. But I agree with you, I would watch
(10:47):
a show like that. I think those are basically podcasts now.
I guess broadcasting exact broadcasting doesn't do them anymore. I
don't know why.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
And you could do the show, I said, put me
on a two in the morning, I don't care. Yeah,
and then we'll stream the audio as a podcast.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Or inside the actors Studio. Was that was that too?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Yeah? And they're they're very upset that that's gone. It
was really a.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Great It was a great show. And I don't know
why it doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
If Jim died, yeah he does, well, I.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Know Jim died, but but the the conceit of it
is still so smart. But why why doesn't it exist?
And I can only think I know that people have
looked into it and the conclusion is just it's just
too expensive for that. They just don't think it will rate.
The other thing, and I hate to say this, but
the people who make decisions like this don't think that
(11:33):
getting an actor over the age of sixty will draw
any viewers. And it's crazy to me because like I
could watch an interview with Gene Hackman or Morgan Freeman
or Alan Alda or whatever, But like, I guess that's
just the mindset these days.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Well, if you're when you're ready to host inside the actors,
studio or reboot. I'm going to call you. Okay, we'll
make a deal with CNN and you can call it.
We'll call you now. You've been in this, doing this
since you said two thousand and three. Thank god, what
you've seen and the changes you've seen. Yeah, and it
must be so I don't know what the word is,
and not alarming, but maybe even exhausting. Almost every day
(12:11):
in the world we live in right now, and since
you know who I would imagine is it just feels
like the world is hanging on by its fingernails.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
It feels like that President Trump has a way of
turning on a fire hose of activity that does make
it especially challenging to figure out what to cover, what
not to cover. Somebody asked me the other day about
a decision I made to not cover a social media
post of the president. So it was when he retruthed
(12:43):
that crazy post about Biden was assassinated and he's been
replaced by clones or something like that. I'm sure you saw.
And this person said, you know, any other in any
other situation that would be like the front page of
the New York Times that the president would put forward
such an unhinged theory, and I agree with it. But
also I think one of the lessons I learned from
(13:04):
the first Trump term is don't follow the tweets, follow
the activities the actions. The actions are more important than
the words. And right now, the actions and the words
are about whether or not he's going to authorize a
bombing of the Fodah plant in Iran. But also you
have all these deportations, you have this litigation having to
do with universities, you have this lawsuit against Paramount Slash
(13:28):
CBS News, and I just think that the actions are
more important than the words. But it does feel like
an especially crazy and perilous time. No question.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
My wonder when I looked at that whole thing with
the Harvard and so forth, is there a corresponding attack
on conservative colleges? Does Liberty University get the same treatment
as Harvard? Have they been pursuing this blindly or are
they only focusing, as one might easily guess, on liberal universities.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
They've only focused on Ivy League University, and I think
they're looking at the University of California system. I mean,
they're obviously picking their targets according to I mean, they
would argue that they're picking their targets according to where
has there been DEI, where has there not been enough
civil rights protections for Jewish students in the wake of
the protests. But I think they're pretty cleverly picking avatars
(14:18):
for that which the MAGA world hates universities, especially Harvard.
I mean, there just is something about them going after
Harvard more than Yale that is particularly inciting of the
base that hates Harvard, even those who went to Harvard,
you know.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
I mean, your dad went to Harvard Medical School.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
My dad went to Harvard Medical School.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Is he still around? Your dad?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
He is? He's eighty five years old.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
My god, what does he think of all this?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Oh he's an old died in the wool lefty. He
has a nickname for Trump that I won't repeat. Yeah,
he's not a fan of this. You know. He came
of age and his skepticism about power really influenced me
growing up. And it wasn't partisan because he hated LBJ,
but his skepticism about the Vietnam War was very influential.
(15:08):
So I was born in nineteen sixty nine, so the
Vietnam War went on until seventy four. Seventy five, and
that and Watergate were hugely influential parts of my very
very early childhood, and how much he hated the Democratic
mayor of Philadelphia where I grew up, Frank Rizzo, who
was a former police chief, a police commissioner, and the like.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Did your parents divorce affect you in any way in
terms of your career?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
I think, you know, funny, I think that I was
talking about this the other day. So we had a
president at CNN named Chris Licht who was rather short
lived after David Zaslov came in and Warner Brothers Discovery
took over CNN, and I was trying internally to help
(15:53):
make that work towards the end when it wasn't working
and before Chris left. I think that is part of
my being a child of divorce, that I was trying
to make this work even though very few people I think,
wanted to make it work anymore towards the end, and
obviously it didn't. But I mean, I think that trying
(16:14):
to make a relationship work even when it's over, I
think that's the root of it. But I have very
good relationship with both my parents, and they're both still alive.
My mom actually just moved down from Philadelphia to Washington,
d C. To a retirement home right near us, so
I see her at least once a week. And yeah,
they're still alive and kick and they're in their eighties.
Eighty two and eighty five.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Washington and Philadelphia, I mean, I would imagine an a
of fact I know from people that I know done.
I love Philadelphia. Yeah, I love Philly and I love Philly.
It's New York without the ego, but those societies and
that kind of realm. Yes, Washington's Washington, but it isn't
that much different, are they. Did you find it difficult
to adjust to living in Washington full time?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
I didn't find it difficult, But they're very different. Philadelphia
is a city of neighborhoods and different ethnicities. You know,
there's a Vietnamese neighborhood, a Chinese neighborhood, a Jewish neighborhood,
of Polish, Italian, on and on, and you know, it's
a city of allegiances to Philadelphia. It's one of the
(17:13):
reasons why it's so fun to be a Philadelphia sports fan.
Sometimes Philadelphia sports Sorry, I'm one of them. And if
I panned up my camera you'd see all the memorability
you want to see it. But Washington is very much
a company town. Washington reminds me more. I lived in
Los Angeles, very very briefly. After college. I went to
film school. I went to USC Film School for one semester,
(17:36):
and I found even though I know Los Angeles is
not Hollywood and I'm well aware of how huge Los
Angeles is and how it's not just the industry, but
I was at film school, so I was in the
industry world of it. And DC feels a lot like that.
To me. It's a it's a company town and it's tough,
(17:57):
and I think LA is the same way.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
We went to see You lasted one semester.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Why one semester? But first of all I went into
I wanted to be a writer and maybe director. The
truth is, I didn't know what I wanted to do
after college. And all my friends were going to law school,
and I had taken some film classes and I really
liked them, and I was interested in film. And this
was like the era of Spike Lee and John Singleton
(18:24):
and you know, the autor Quentin Tarantino, and there was
this kind of romance about it. And again, I didn't
know what I wanted to do. My dad maybe pay
for it. That's one of the reasons why it only
lasted one semester, because I was paying for it, so
it's like, okay, And then after a while I didn't.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Ever even became clear real quickly.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Well, I didn't know. First of all, I didn't even
know that that's what I wanted to do, and you know,
it just it just seemed questionable to me that I
should spend my money on that. Also, just the first
year out of college is for me at least, and
I think for a lot of people, it's just such
a miserable time. And I didn't know what I I
didn't become a full time journalist until I was like
twenty nine, so it took me a little while of
(19:05):
running around in the wilderness.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Journalist and author Jake Tapper. If you enjoy conversations with journalists,
check out my episode with the former executive editor of
The New York Times, Jill Abramson.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
There's a traditional separation between the editorial department and the
editorial views of the paper.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
And newsgathering and news.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Gathering, but you know, a lot of people don't know
that even a lot of political people in Washington didn't
know it. So in Washington it was actually it advantaged
me because in nineteen ninety four, for example, when Gingrich
took over the House, like there were Republicans who would
gladly talk to me.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
To hear more of my conversation with Jill Abramson, go
to Here's the Dot Org. After the break, Jake Tapper
talks about the genesis of his latest book, entitled Original Sin,
President Biden's decline, its cover up, and his disastrous choice
to run again. I'm Malec Baldwin and you're listening to
(20:26):
Here's the Thing. Jake Tapper is currently CNN's lead Washington
anchor and chief correspondent. Tapper hosts both an evening show
during the week and co host State of the Union
on Sunday mornings. In addition to his relentless television schedule,
Tapper has written five novels and recently published a sixth
(20:46):
nonfiction book titled Original Sin. I was curious how Tapper
finds the time to write while staying on top of
America's political news.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
It's just a constant thing. I always have either my
laptop or something with me, a computer of some sort
an iPad right now, because I'm working on an artistic book.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Everyone in my office, my producers, I didn't know this.
They introduced me to the idea that you're quite the illustrator.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah, I don't know how good I am, but I try.
And I'm writing right now a graphic novel. Except it's
not a novel. It's nonfiction of about Klaus Barbie, the
Nazi ah and the hunt for him and all that.
But in any case, no, it's just non stop writing.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
What was his nickname? Me and the butcher of what?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
The Butcher of Leon Leon? Yeah, the Butcher of Leon.
Good memory. It's really a fascinating story. But the writing
is just NonStop, whether it's Google docs or word I'm
just always working and I do a lot in the morning. Actually.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
So when a book idea comes into your mind, and
I'm sure, like a lot of writers, there's multiple ideas
and some are rejecting and so forth, you do the
book about Biden original sin. What was the genesis of that?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
The genesis was that we all went through this crazy
the debate, which I happened to have a front row
seat two and it obviously shocked everybody how bad he was,
and I wanted to know, Okay, well, what really happened here?
How bad was it behind the scenes, because there's no
way this just happened that moment, and there had been
(22:16):
a little reporting about it, but not a ton. And
I said to my agent before the election, I think
Trump's going to win, and I think people are going
to be wanting to figure out why that happened, and
talking to Democrats, they think the original sin was that
Biden shouldn't have never run for reelection, and then he
should never have tried to hide his diminishment. And then
(22:37):
after the election I hooked up with Alex Thompson of
Axios and we got to work on it. But it
was really just one of these books were like I
wanted to know the answer. I would have been happy
to read about it, but because nobody else was writing it,
I decided to write it.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
So usc you decide you have to pay for it,
that's the end, the vicious ending of your movie career.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Well, except I wrote a book about Afghanistan. They turned
into a movie and I was an executive producer on that,
so it's not the vicious end of it. It's just
the pause of my director's.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Chair tell us about that movie, that book in that movie.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
So the book is The Outpost, and it was one
of these books that I wrote that I would have
gladly just read, but nobody was telling the story. It
was about an outpost that was overrun in Afghanistan in
October third, two thousand and nine. It was built at
the bottom of three steep mountains and it was the
deadliest day for America in Afghanistan that year, two thousand
and nine. And after I was in the hospital room
(23:31):
because my son had just been born the day before,
and I was watching news reports about this outpost and
nobody could explain why it was built at the bottom
of three steep mountains in this treacherous corner of Afghanistan,
right near the Pakistan border. And I waited for somebody
to explain it to me, and nobody ever did months
and months and months, and then I started asking questions
(23:52):
and making phone calls, and then it became this book
about the existence of this outpost. And then other people
started reaching out who had served the outpost, hearing that
I was writing this book because I was just going
to focus on the battle in two thousand and nine,
and they would say oh no, I you know, we
were in charge of building the outpost in two thousand
and six and let me ex tell you our story.
(24:12):
And then it just became this bigger book. It became
kind of a metaphor for the war and the existence
of this outpost and the good intentions behind it and
why it was obviously such a mistake in the end.
And they turned that into a film. Rod Luriy directed it.
It was a Caleb Landry Jones and Orlando Bloom and
Scott Eastwood. Clint Eastwood's son did a good castme yes,
(24:36):
Scott and Milo Gibson was in a two Mel Gibson's
son and.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
It was good.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
It was a good movie. He did a really good
job Rod, and it was very authentic and a lot
of people who served there and served at other places
find that movie really meaningful and well done. It was
supposed to debut at the south By Southwest Festival in
March twenty twenty, and then COVID shut it down. So
now as many people know about the film, but it's
out there stream. Last I saw it was on Netflix.
(25:02):
I think you'd like it. I mean, it's it's really
it's really well done.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Now do you have to kind of get off of
a train I'm assuming to write a book. I mean,
you just you just steal the moments.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
I steal the moments. And for me, I don't know
how you wrote yours, but for me, structure is the
most important part of writing a book, whether it's fiction
or nonfiction. And I've written the three novels too, although
I find I'm going to talk.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
To about that.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I find non fiction much easier. Of course it's what
I do day in, day out, but it's but fiction
I find much more difficult.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Do you enjoy it fiction?
Speaker 2 (25:34):
I do?
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Do you wish I had more time for it?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
No?
Speaker 1 (25:39):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
But you wrote a series of about about a couple.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
I wrote a series of murder mysteries.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
I wrote a series Charlie and Margaret Martyr. The first
one is The hell Fire Club, takes place during the
Joe McCarthy years. The second one is The Devil May Dance,
takes place during the rat Pack years. And the third
one is All the Demons Are Here. It takes place
in in nineteen seventy seven. And actually right now I'm
talking to I've I'm working with some folks out in
(26:07):
Hollywood about turning the second one, the rat Pack one,
into a possible streamer.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Was there a period there where You're saying to your wife, no, honey,
I gotta go to Vegas. It's research for my book.
I got it.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
There's only I don't think actually we have that many
scenes in Vegas. It's mostly palm springs in la But
you know, I wrote that actually during COVID, and that
was fun to write because you know, I'd be dealing
with COVID. This is back when I was broadcasting from
my garage, you know, above the garage during COVID, when
like studios were shut down, like from March twenty twenty
(26:41):
to August twenty twenty, I was broadcasting from home and
during that period where I had free time because there
was no commute and you know, our kids were being
educated at home educated quote unquote, I would write a
scene and then I would come back to reality. And
it was very enjoyable because it was just like I'd
just spent two hours eating Italian food with the rat
(27:02):
Pack and that was a great rescue and respite from
the horror of that era.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
I did this gambling movie called The Cooler, and I
got nominated for an Oscar for Best Supporting Actor. And
I go to dinner at this famous joint.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
It's a great movie. That's William H.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Macy right, yeah, Bill Macy Yeah. And the guy that
directed it was a great guy who I just loved him,
Wayne Kramer. I'm going into this restaurant after the Oscars
to have dinner and there's Tina Sinatra. Oh wow, not Nancy.
There's Tina Sonata with a bevy of people at the table,
and she goes, somebody get this kid a script. Kid.
I was like, you know what the ninth This is
two thousand and three. I was in my forties, So
(27:38):
you go, somebody get this kid a script. He should
play pop in a movie. You should play my pop
in a movie. I'm going, oh my god.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
I met her too. I met Tina too. She came
up to me. I was in La and she came
up to me. I was like waiting outside a restaurant,
and I told her, you know, I'm like, hey, I
wrote this book and your dad's a character in it.
And I sent her a copy of her of the book,
and she sent me a copy of hers. My portrayal
of him was not as a bad guy, but certainly
he was. He was a dark figure with suicide attempts
(28:07):
and all sorts of did he really Oh yeah, you
know what I learned about him when researching my book
is really interesting. Ava Gardner really broke his heart and
he tried god suicide. But you know, one of the
things about Sinatra that people don't realize is the degree
to what he and JFK broke up. And in fact,
(28:28):
in that famous birthday party for President Kennedy at Madison
Square Garden and she sings when Rolyn Monroe sings, and
she's drunk and pilled out and just a complete mess.
And if you watch the whole thing, not just like
the sexy clip, if you watch the whole thing, you'll
say she's a complete and utter disaster. And she dies
a few months later. But Sinatra's not there. Frank Sinatra
(28:50):
is not there, and it's because they had this breakup.
And this is kind of like what inspired me to
write this book. JFK is going out to California, He's
going out to la This is a true story, and
Sinatra wants him to stay at his Rancho mirage right
near pul Springs estate and he builds a helipad, and
(29:11):
he has additional rooms added and he has phone lines
put in for the press, and people at the FBI
tell Robert Kennedy, the Attorney General, you can't be waging
war against the mob. And then your brother goes to
Sinatra's house like Sinatra's he has mob ties. You know,
he's legitimately got mob tized, which he did. Sam Gankanna
(29:34):
and others were friends of his. And at that point,
Sinatra's connection to the Kennedy family is over because the
father had the stroke in December nineteen sixty two. That
was his real that was his close connection to the family.
And Bobby, who Sinatra hated, and who hated Sinatra. He
Kai bashes the visit. So Kennedy stays with like bing
(29:59):
cross be like the ultimate insult and exactly and the
guy who can really see and Sinatra when he gets
the news, he loses his shit and he takes a
sledgehammer to the helipad. And when I heard this story,
and it's a true story, when I heard it, I
was like, oh my god, I have to set my
next novel in this, and so I did. That's what
The devil My Dance is about. But in any case,
(30:21):
Like I just couldn't even that's a movie. I know,
I couldn't even believe it. And it's just like but
but people don't realize the degree to which they like
they ended on bad terms that when Kennedy got assassinated,
he and Sinatra we're not friends anymore.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
I have a theory about him, a funny theory. And
I'm ashamed to admit this or embarrassed, but not really.
And I thought, here's a guy I could have been
best friends with him. I could have been best friend.
Want to know what, because I would have told him
the truth. Yeah, I would have said, don't do that,
don't say this, don't you You're You're a person who
is you are a god in the music industry.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Now, like a lot a lot of guys get so
big in their career, they don't want that.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Right.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
We all need it. We all need it. I need it,
You need it. We all need somebody. And if you're
lucky enough, that person might be your spouse, even I
mean that's my case, and also my staff. My staff
will tell me also. But I think that's one of
the problems Trump has. I think that's one of the
problems Biden had I think, you know, I think a
lot of times you need people like that to say no,
(31:16):
don't do that bad idea. And you know those guardrails
are necessary. But I'm sure you and that's not just
take away your dream. I mean, you know, when you
when you go to bed, if you want to have
a dream about being in the rap pack, I think
you'd be a good one.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Journalist and author Jake Tapper, If you're enjoying this conversation,
tell a friend and be sure to follow Here's the
Thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify, or wherever you'll get
your podcasts when we come back. Jake Tapper takes us
behind the scenes of his first presidential debate in twenty fifteen.
(32:04):
I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing.
Jake Tapper has moderated several high profile presidential debates for CNN.
He first moderated the twenty fifteen GOP primary debate, which
drew a record number of viewers. In twenty nineteen and
twenty twenty, Tapper co moderated key Democratic debates, as well
(32:28):
as the infamous and only Biden Trump general election debate
in twenty twenty four, alongside Dana Bash. Praised for his
thorough preparation, Tapper nonetheless faced criticism for not fact checking Live.
I was curious if Tapper relished the opportunity to earn
such a high profile assignment.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Oh no, I was terrified, right, terrified. I had done
debates before, primary debates, never a presidential It's one of
those things you know you have to do. I don't know,
is it maybe like when you were cast in Streetcar.
I don't know, Like, you know you have to do it,
and you know you hope you're going to rise to it.
But god, it was nerve wracking.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
I have to block out the intrusive thoughts when I'm
doing street Car. Yeah, that was tough. And then I
met him. I had lunch with him at his house
in La and I said, I said, I know, I
did street Car. He goes, yeah, I heard about that
from my friends. They said they saw you and then
you were very very good. You were very good. Oh yeah,
And he goes, I know. My friends told me you
tried to make it funny, and I wish I had
(33:32):
done that because it's a very funny part. There's a
lot of humor in that part and I wish I'd
done that. And there's a long pause, and I go,
but you're happy with the way it worked out, correct,
I mean, it all worked out for you, you know
the way you did. You chose to do it. And
he's like, now, the one thing I'm always into is
you did a lot of reporting about Enron.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
I did back in the day.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
When you reported that story. Do you think that that's
business as usual now everyone's doing the same thing.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
It's so funny you say that, because I do this
show called You United States of Scandal. It's a just
like a six episode show that we do like once
every year or two. And in the second season we
did Enron. And I went back and looked at the
stuff I did covering Enron in I guess that was
two thousand and one, two thousand and two, and I had,
you know, some really good sources, and so I was
able to break some good stories there. People went to
(34:20):
prison in Enron, and I think that people don't go
to prison for that kind of thing anymore. It feels
that way, doesn't it, Like, I mean, nobody or very
few people. I mean, it depends on how you do
the math. But like the housing crisis in two thousand
and eight and all the slimy chicanery that went on there.
I don't think anybody major went to prison despite the
(34:43):
fact that they were making millions, hundreds of millions of
dollars off of the despair of the American people.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
The run thing always pushes me toward this idea that
and this is one of the most passionate things for me.
That I just drives me insane. And that is this
country and conservatives and think tanks and everybody who were
the framework, if you will, of the conservative pro business
movement or pro business consciousness. They are all the same
and this is one of their greatest successes. But if
I stand up and I advocate for no oil drilling,
(35:10):
and there's nothing in it for me, right, nothing in
it for me, right. Yeah, that's why people dismiss you.
When the head of an oil company stands up and
testifies on behalf of legislation and wants to change legislation,
so he's going to get millions of dollars worth of
stock oppers when they come down the other end of
the pipeline. I'm like, that doesn't bother you. People who
will motivate, But in America. It doesn't.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
It doesn't, it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
You're right, look at those guys who are like, well,
ex officiow, that's his job. I mean, yes, job.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Well, it's also just why people. I mean, it polls
well to tax the wealthier individuals. But it's not the
slam dunk with every community that you think it might be.
Because people think that they're going to be rich someday too.
That is part of the American.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Yes, although Gray Davis was a good guy. I liked
him his persona when he was in office. He was
a good guy. He is a good guy. I liked
him a lot.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
I mean that recall I went out to LA I
had just started at ABC News, and Diane Sawyer and
the executive producer of Good Morning America, Shelly Ross, took
a shine to me and they sent me out there
to cover the recall. And wow, what a goat fuck
that was. Do you remember Arianna Huffington was running. Yes,
here's a little lesson for anybody young listening. The reason
(36:20):
that Diane Sawyer and Shelley Ross took a shine to
me and this is I had just started at ABC.
I was staying in corporate housing in DC. They just
moved me back from New York, where I lived for
a year, and Arnold had announced on I think the
Tonight Show with Jay Leno that he was running for governor,
And so the email went out internally at ABC, and
I reached out to Diane and Shelley and said, oh,
(36:43):
I'd love it was like nine o'clock at night. I'd
love to come in right now do a piece for
tomorrow morning about Arnold running. And I have all these
ideas for clips from movies that he did that we
can make fun for the viewer and blah blah blah.
And they liked it and like it was. Honestly, just
raising your hand and doing the work is and I'm
sure this has been the experience in your career as well,
(37:04):
just raising your hand and doing the work.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
You know, people say, why do I do the podcast?
I have a chance to do not a deep dive,
but certainly a deep bird dive than what I see.
I'm reading this article in an older New Yorker now
where the guy is writing Menanda is writing a review
of the William F.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Buckley book. Oh yeah, I find Buckley so intriguing. You
should have Chris on Chris Buckley. I wonder what he
thinks about this biography.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Interesting, that's a good cue, that's a good call.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
He is so fascinated. Do you know the story about
when Buckley got a guy out of prison. It's this
fascinating story. William F. Buckley takes on the charge of
this guy who's in prison who insists he's innocent, and
Buckley lobbies for him. And the guy's very literate and
has self taught and is a writer. And then the
(37:50):
guy gets out and he tries to kill someone else.
He was guilty the whole time.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Jack Henry, Yeah, but is a guy that Mailer helped
to get.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Sprung and he was guilty too.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
And then he went out, well he went out. I
think he tried to kill somebody else.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
So that's incredible that Buckley did it. So Buckley did it.
It's incredible. One thing they have in common, the bucks
of Buckley. Buckley picks him up from prison, drives him
to the studio and they shoot two episodes of firing
Line in a row. And I mean, and by the way,
I'd like I have no doubt that Buckley was convinced
(38:21):
that the guy was innocent, and this was noble and
he was trying to do a good thing. And I'm
not making light of it at all, but it's just
a fascinating and horrifying story.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
That's a great doc to compare and contrast the two
of them advocating.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
I didn't know Malely did that. I need to look
up mailer.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Let me just say, I'm a huge fan of yours.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Well, thank you so much. Ellen.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
My news diet. But I come home and I'm down
on a couch. My kids are having their dinner, and
I don't bother having dinner with them anymore because they
just ignore me. And then and then we hang out afterward.
But I sit down in front of a TV and
watch the lead nearly every day. That's a big part
of my news feed.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Thank you so much. That's very very kind of you.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
My thanks to journalist and author Jake Tapper. This episode
was recorded at CDM Studios in New York City and
Monk Music in Easthampton, New York. We're produced by Kathleen Brusso,
Zach MacNeice, and Victoria de Martin. Our engineer is Frank Imperial.
Our social media manager is Danielle Gingrich. I'm Alec Baldwin.
(39:25):
Here's the thing. Is brought to you by iHeart Radio
This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the
Thing from iHeart Radio. My guest today is a journalist, author,
and news anchor, widely recognized for his sharp political interviews
and moderating recent US presidential debates. Jake Tapper is currently
the Washington anchor for CNN and weekday host of the
(00:26):
Lead with Jake Tapper. He is also co host of
the Sunday morning political roundtable State of the Union. Tapper's
work as a broadcast journalist has earned him two Emmy Awards.
He is also a recipient of the prestigious Edward R.
Murrow Award for Outstanding Achievements in Broadcast and Digital Journalism.
(00:47):
In addition to his work as a reporter, Jake Tapper
is also a best selling author of political thrillers and nonfiction,
known for his directness and tough critique. Curious how Jake
Tapper would critique himself?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, brutally. There's no one that I'm tougher on than me,
is the truth. I'm a flagellator, a self flagellator, Like
as if it's one of those scenes that you see
in Iran every now and then where Shia are flagellating themselves.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
It is.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
It is a daily event. No one is tougher on
me than me.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Your career is so vast, all the writing and the
work you did before you landed it to ABC first
we were on camera first with ABC or somebody else.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Full time ABC? Yeah, I mean there was there's little
things here and there, but full time job, yes, ABC News.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Do you go back to look at your work and
evaluate yourself to try to fix it?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Well, I'm lucky enough that I have a daily show
so that every possible mistake I could make is pointed
out to me in real time.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
By do they really give you a direction?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
By the no, by I'm talking about like the masses on.
So I tend to think that my flaws as a
broadcaster are more in holding back than in going in
too much. There there are times that I think I
went too far, but generally speaking, there is the imperative
in broadcasting that you know and you know this, but like, okay,
(02:19):
we got to take a commercial break, Okay, we got
on to the next. Like it's almost as if you
as soon as you have a guest, even if it's
a huge guest, there's almost like an excitement for it
to be over. That's just like cable news. So sometimes
I get too wrapped up in what I'm being told
and not focused enough on what I'm experiencing and what
the interviewee is saying. And there are times that I
(02:43):
wish that I had plunged in more. The mistakes I
make tend to be one of three or four that
I make over and over and over again.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
So when you're doing the lead your show, your signature
show with CNN, are there producers or who work with
you they shaped the program or is the content of
the program essentially your call.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
It's a combination of both, but it's I mean, it's
without question, it's a huge team effort, like right now.
So I had my first call at eight thirty in
the morning with my two top producers, my executive producer
and my senior broadcast producer, and then we talk about
what we want to be in the show, and we
discuss things that we think need to be in the
show today. Obviously, as we're in the midst of this
(03:25):
presidential decision about whether or not to drop a massive
bomb on a mountain or a facility in Iran, and
so it's a little different than the average day, and
we talk about the guests that we already have lined up,
and we talk about what we want to ask them
or what I want to ask them, and then it
gets assigned to producers. And we have a producing team
(03:47):
of about twenty or so, and each person gets their
own assignment or two for a block or two, and
then we go over it all at roughly two hours
before the show, so three o'clock for a five o'clock show.
And sometimes I'm weighing in the whole time, and sometimes
I'm talking to people about what I want in there.
And obviously we adjust as the day goes on because
of news developing, such as a Supreme Court decision or whatever.
(04:10):
It's my show. But like with a team of smart
people who push back on me, who offer their ideas,
and in that conflict and tens, I think we get
to a good place.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Obviously, the show and your staff, your producers, and people
who do the show with you, they have bosses as well.
Do they leave you alone? When do you? I mean
you see what happened to Terry Moran? Are you left
alone by the powers that be? At Wanner Discovery?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Pretty much every now and David Zaslov would be the
big cheese sure, and then we have a new one
for the split that doing Gunner, but I don't talk
to them on a regular basis. It's more it would
be more Sir Mark Thompson, who's the head of CNN,
but even he is pretty hands off. And then there's
a layer of executives there too. It's more, here is
(04:57):
what we have, Here is what we have been putting
together with our reporters, and here's where we have reporters
on the scene, and this is what we think. But
you guys do your own shows, and that people might
suggest something like if I were leading today with a
story about the New York Mets or something, I'm sure
if people would say, what what are you doing? But
(05:18):
as a general rule, they leave us pretty much alone.
In terms of the Terry Moran thing, I don't get
a lot of feedback on my social media. I tend
to not opine as much. I tend to think that
if I have some thought, that it's better that I
do it on TV than if I do it on
social media. And that is a I think it's a
(05:39):
healthy way to do it, because A it means that
you can do it with the whole context and proving
the point you want with clips and with evidence. And
also it means that other people can have their eyeballs
on it and it can be the best presentation. And
I happen to think a good like four or five
minute piece that you might do or a tell or
like we're preparing one today for the decision that President
(06:02):
Trump has in front of him right now. And I
think that that would be better. I think that will
be better than if I just kind of just shared
my random thoughts on my own and put it on
social media.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Right right, Well, I mean, of course, people would go
to CNN for the news, yeah, and they wouldn't want
to watch breaking news, and they would watch MSNBC. If
you're of a certain leaning, you'd watch MSNBC for the commentary, right,
And people seem to pivot between the two. Do you
feel that that's still the case though, Do you feel
that people are coming to CNN largely for breaking news
(06:32):
and going to MSNBC for opinion or you don't think
that's any longer the case.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
We do have overlap with Fox and ms I think so.
I also think that there is a degree to which
sometimes people don't want to hear certain news, and so
they might go to a channel that preaches to the choir. Look,
the preaching to the choir business model or opinion slash
analysis business model is a lucrative one. I think that
I hope that there's always going to be room for
(06:58):
a news a case, news network. In these days we're broadcast.
News is not what it was ten years ago or
twenty years ago in terms of foreign coverage, in terms
of that sort of thing. I mean, I worked under
Peter Jennings at World News tonight and that was yeah,
and a very different show than what they put on now.
I hope that there is always going to be a
market for it. I don't know that there will be,
(07:20):
but I think and hope that there will be. But
we'll have to see. I mean, the world is evolving
in such crazy ways when it comes to the consumption
of all media. It's affecting your world as much as
it's affecting my world. It's affecting publishing. I've written seven books,
and the way that publishers look at ebooks and audiobooks
today is significantly different than five years ago. Now there
(07:44):
is this real recognition that people are not reading hardcover
books as much as they used to. That people are
listening to books and reading them on their phones is
just as much.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Now you are on the air during the week and
everybody I know watches your show. They're all fans of
the lead with you and CNN, and then you're on
on the weekend as well. Correct.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Yeah, I mean Dana Bash and I split State of
the Union on Sunday, So sometimes it's her, sometimes it's May.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
But yeah, different demographic for those shows, different producers.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yes, completely different team. I mean there's overlap in terms
of sometimes somebody will leave the lead and go work
with State of the Union or vice versa. But yes,
and different hours and a completely different task. A Sunday
show is one that is not necessarily as driven by
what is going on today. It's driven maybe more like
(08:30):
what's the conversation of the week. So for instance, Dana,
it's State of the Union earlier this week, and you know,
the story of that day was Iran. But she covered
other things too that had gone including you know, legislation
and stuff on the hill. So it's a little bit
different that you also have more time to breathe. An
(08:51):
eight or nine minute interview on Sunday is fine. An
eight or nine minute interview on the lead during the
week is long.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, well you're doing this job now on the air.
You were with ABC on the air for how many.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Years from two thousand and two to twenty thirteen or
something like.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
That, right, and then even with ce an incense, Yes,
when you moved over.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Directly, I wanted to anchor. That's what I wanted to do.
And you you've anchored, so you know the joy and
the challenges of anchoring.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
But is it is it is played an anchor. No,
I'm kidding.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, well you know, but you anchored a show and
it was interesting. But you know what I mean, Like,
you want to anchor a show as opposed to report
for a show. And one of the reasons I wanted
to do it is so the reported pieces I do
could be as long as I wanted them to, as
opposed to well, as long as an anchor wanted them
to be.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
But when I did the show one I did for MSNBC,
I just wanted to do a straight interview show. My
model and I say this was no facetiousness. Was Tom Snyder.
Snider was a great interviewer. Yeah, well, I want to
have a nice hour long conversation with somebody who's worth
that investment of time, and not get anybody like you.
Tell me who you are, You tell me what people
(09:58):
aren't saying about You, tell me all about your work
and your view of it. This is a chance for
people to say whatever they wanted to say.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I don't know why that's gone. I agree with you
that Tom Snyder model, the Charlie Rose model, Tim Russer.
Tim Russer used to have a show like that on CNBC,
I think, and he would do extended interviews with people
who maybe didn't rise to the meet the press level,
like Donald Trump in the early aughts, and then you
(10:26):
could mind those interviews much later. And in fact, at
one point I was talking to Jeff Zuker when he
was my boss at CNN, about would I do a
show like that at HLN back when HLN still was
what HLN was, and just so there would be a
show where we could do extended hour long interviews. And
it was a really interesting idea and then it just
never happened. But I agree with you, I would watch
(10:47):
a show like that. I think those are basically podcasts now.
I guess broadcasting exact broadcasting doesn't do them anymore. I
don't know why.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
And you could do the show, I said, put me
on a two in the morning, I don't care. Yeah,
and then we'll stream the audio as a podcast.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Or inside the actors Studio. Was that was that too?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Yeah? And they're they're very upset that that's gone. It
was really a.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Great It was a great show. And I don't know
why it doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
If Jim died, yeah he does, well, I.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Know Jim died, but but the the conceit of it
is still so smart. But why why doesn't it exist?
And I can only think I know that people have
looked into it and the conclusion is just it's just
too expensive for that. They just don't think it will rate.
The other thing, and I hate to say this, but
the people who make decisions like this don't think that
(11:33):
getting an actor over the age of sixty will draw
any viewers. And it's crazy to me because like I
could watch an interview with Gene Hackman or Morgan Freeman
or Alan Alda or whatever, But like, I guess that's
just the mindset these days.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Well, if you're when you're ready to host inside the actors,
studio or reboot. I'm going to call you. Okay, we'll
make a deal with CNN and you can call it.
We'll call you now. You've been in this, doing this
since you said two thousand and three. Thank god, what
you've seen and the changes you've seen. Yeah, and it
must be so I don't know what the word is,
and not alarming, but maybe even exhausting. Almost every day
(12:11):
in the world we live in right now, and since
you know who I would imagine is it just feels
like the world is hanging on by its fingernails.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
It feels like that President Trump has a way of
turning on a fire hose of activity that does make
it especially challenging to figure out what to cover, what
not to cover. Somebody asked me the other day about
a decision I made to not cover a social media
post of the president. So it was when he retruthed
(12:43):
that crazy post about Biden was assassinated and he's been
replaced by clones or something like that. I'm sure you saw.
And this person said, you know, any other in any
other situation that would be like the front page of
the New York Times that the president would put forward
such an unhinged theory, and I agree with it. But
also I think one of the lessons I learned from
(13:04):
the first Trump term is don't follow the tweets, follow
the activities the actions. The actions are more important than
the words. And right now, the actions and the words
are about whether or not he's going to authorize a
bombing of the Fodah plant in Iran. But also you
have all these deportations, you have this litigation having to
do with universities, you have this lawsuit against Paramount Slash
(13:28):
CBS News, and I just think that the actions are
more important than the words. But it does feel like
an especially crazy and perilous time. No question.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
My wonder when I looked at that whole thing with
the Harvard and so forth, is there a corresponding attack
on conservative colleges? Does Liberty University get the same treatment
as Harvard? Have they been pursuing this blindly or are
they only focusing, as one might easily guess, on liberal universities.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
They've only focused on Ivy League University, and I think
they're looking at the University of California system. I mean,
they're obviously picking their targets according to I mean, they
would argue that they're picking their targets according to where
has there been DEI, where has there not been enough
civil rights protections for Jewish students in the wake of
the protests. But I think they're pretty cleverly picking avatars
(14:18):
for that which the MAGA world hates universities, especially Harvard.
I mean, there just is something about them going after
Harvard more than Yale that is particularly inciting of the
base that hates Harvard, even those who went to Harvard,
you know.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
I mean, your dad went to Harvard Medical School.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
My dad went to Harvard Medical School.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Is he still around? Your dad?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
He is? He's eighty five years old.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
My god, what does he think of all this?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Oh he's an old died in the wool lefty. He
has a nickname for Trump that I won't repeat. Yeah,
he's not a fan of this. You know. He came
of age and his skepticism about power really influenced me
growing up. And it wasn't partisan because he hated LBJ,
but his skepticism about the Vietnam War was very influential.
(15:08):
So I was born in nineteen sixty nine, so the
Vietnam War went on until seventy four. Seventy five, and
that and Watergate were hugely influential parts of my very
very early childhood, and how much he hated the Democratic
mayor of Philadelphia where I grew up, Frank Rizzo, who
was a former police chief, a police commissioner, and the like.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Did your parents divorce affect you in any way in
terms of your career?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
I think, you know, funny, I think that I was
talking about this the other day. So we had a
president at CNN named Chris Licht who was rather short
lived after David Zaslov came in and Warner Brothers Discovery
took over CNN, and I was trying internally to help
(15:53):
make that work towards the end when it wasn't working
and before Chris left. I think that is part of
my being a child of divorce, that I was trying
to make this work even though very few people I think,
wanted to make it work anymore towards the end, and
obviously it didn't. But I mean, I think that trying
(16:14):
to make a relationship work even when it's over, I
think that's the root of it. But I have very
good relationship with both my parents, and they're both still alive.
My mom actually just moved down from Philadelphia to Washington,
d C. To a retirement home right near us, so
I see her at least once a week. And yeah,
they're still alive and kick and they're in their eighties.
Eighty two and eighty five.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Washington and Philadelphia, I mean, I would imagine an a
of fact I know from people that I know done.
I love Philadelphia. Yeah, I love Philly and I love Philly.
It's New York without the ego, but those societies and
that kind of realm. Yes, Washington's Washington, but it isn't
that much different, are they. Did you find it difficult
to adjust to living in Washington full time?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
I didn't find it difficult, But they're very different. Philadelphia
is a city of neighborhoods and different ethnicities. You know,
there's a Vietnamese neighborhood, a Chinese neighborhood, a Jewish neighborhood,
of Polish, Italian, on and on, and you know, it's
a city of allegiances to Philadelphia. It's one of the
(17:13):
reasons why it's so fun to be a Philadelphia sports fan.
Sometimes Philadelphia sports Sorry, I'm one of them. And if
I panned up my camera you'd see all the memorability
you want to see it. But Washington is very much
a company town. Washington reminds me more. I lived in
Los Angeles, very very briefly. After college. I went to
film school. I went to USC Film School for one semester,
(17:36):
and I found even though I know Los Angeles is
not Hollywood and I'm well aware of how huge Los
Angeles is and how it's not just the industry, but
I was at film school, so I was in the
industry world of it. And DC feels a lot like that.
To me. It's a it's a company town and it's tough,
(17:57):
and I think LA is the same way.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
We went to see You lasted one semester.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Why one semester? But first of all I went into
I wanted to be a writer and maybe director. The
truth is, I didn't know what I wanted to do
after college. And all my friends were going to law school,
and I had taken some film classes and I really
liked them, and I was interested in film. And this
was like the era of Spike Lee and John Singleton
(18:24):
and you know, the autor Quentin Tarantino, and there was
this kind of romance about it. And again, I didn't
know what I wanted to do. My dad maybe pay
for it. That's one of the reasons why it only
lasted one semester, because I was paying for it, so
it's like, okay, And then after a while I didn't.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Ever even became clear real quickly.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Well, I didn't know. First of all, I didn't even
know that that's what I wanted to do, and you know,
it just it just seemed questionable to me that I
should spend my money on that. Also, just the first
year out of college is for me at least, and
I think for a lot of people, it's just such
a miserable time. And I didn't know what I I
didn't become a full time journalist until I was like
twenty nine, so it took me a little while of
(19:05):
running around in the wilderness.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Journalist and author Jake Tapper. If you enjoy conversations with journalists,
check out my episode with the former executive editor of
The New York Times, Jill Abramson.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
There's a traditional separation between the editorial department and the
editorial views of the paper.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
And newsgathering and news.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Gathering, but you know, a lot of people don't know
that even a lot of political people in Washington didn't
know it. So in Washington it was actually it advantaged
me because in nineteen ninety four, for example, when Gingrich
took over the House, like there were Republicans who would
gladly talk to me.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
To hear more of my conversation with Jill Abramson, go
to Here's the Dot Org. After the break, Jake Tapper
talks about the genesis of his latest book, entitled Original Sin,
President Biden's decline, its cover up, and his disastrous choice
to run again. I'm Malec Baldwin and you're listening to
(20:26):
Here's the Thing. Jake Tapper is currently CNN's lead Washington
anchor and chief correspondent. Tapper hosts both an evening show
during the week and co host State of the Union
on Sunday mornings. In addition to his relentless television schedule,
Tapper has written five novels and recently published a sixth
(20:46):
nonfiction book titled Original Sin. I was curious how Tapper
finds the time to write while staying on top of
America's political news.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
It's just a constant thing. I always have either my
laptop or something with me, a computer of some sort
an iPad right now, because I'm working on an artistic book.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Everyone in my office, my producers, I didn't know this.
They introduced me to the idea that you're quite the illustrator.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah, I don't know how good I am, but I try.
And I'm writing right now a graphic novel. Except it's
not a novel. It's nonfiction of about Klaus Barbie, the
Nazi ah and the hunt for him and all that.
But in any case, no, it's just non stop writing.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
What was his nickname? Me and the butcher of what?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
The Butcher of Leon Leon? Yeah, the Butcher of Leon.
Good memory. It's really a fascinating story. But the writing
is just NonStop, whether it's Google docs or word I'm
just always working and I do a lot in the morning. Actually.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
So when a book idea comes into your mind, and
I'm sure, like a lot of writers, there's multiple ideas
and some are rejecting and so forth, you do the
book about Biden original sin. What was the genesis of that?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
The genesis was that we all went through this crazy
the debate, which I happened to have a front row
seat two and it obviously shocked everybody how bad he was,
and I wanted to know, Okay, well, what really happened here?
How bad was it behind the scenes, because there's no
way this just happened that moment, and there had been
(22:16):
a little reporting about it, but not a ton. And
I said to my agent before the election, I think
Trump's going to win, and I think people are going
to be wanting to figure out why that happened, and
talking to Democrats, they think the original sin was that
Biden shouldn't have never run for reelection, and then he
should never have tried to hide his diminishment. And then
(22:37):
after the election I hooked up with Alex Thompson of
Axios and we got to work on it. But it
was really just one of these books were like I
wanted to know the answer. I would have been happy
to read about it, but because nobody else was writing it,
I decided to write it.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
So usc you decide you have to pay for it,
that's the end, the vicious ending of your movie career.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Well, except I wrote a book about Afghanistan. They turned
into a movie and I was an executive producer on that,
so it's not the vicious end of it. It's just
the pause of my director's.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Chair tell us about that movie, that book in that movie.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
So the book is The Outpost, and it was one
of these books that I wrote that I would have
gladly just read, but nobody was telling the story. It
was about an outpost that was overrun in Afghanistan in
October third, two thousand and nine. It was built at
the bottom of three steep mountains and it was the
deadliest day for America in Afghanistan that year, two thousand
and nine. And after I was in the hospital room
(23:31):
because my son had just been born the day before,
and I was watching news reports about this outpost and
nobody could explain why it was built at the bottom
of three steep mountains in this treacherous corner of Afghanistan,
right near the Pakistan border. And I waited for somebody
to explain it to me, and nobody ever did months
and months and months, and then I started asking questions
(23:52):
and making phone calls, and then it became this book
about the existence of this outpost. And then other people
started reaching out who had served the outpost, hearing that
I was writing this book because I was just going
to focus on the battle in two thousand and nine,
and they would say oh no, I you know, we
were in charge of building the outpost in two thousand
and six and let me ex tell you our story.
(24:12):
And then it just became this bigger book. It became
kind of a metaphor for the war and the existence
of this outpost and the good intentions behind it and
why it was obviously such a mistake in the end.
And they turned that into a film. Rod Luriy directed it.
It was a Caleb Landry Jones and Orlando Bloom and
Scott Eastwood. Clint Eastwood's son did a good castme yes,
(24:36):
Scott and Milo Gibson was in a two Mel Gibson's
son and.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
It was good.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
It was a good movie. He did a really good
job Rod, and it was very authentic and a lot
of people who served there and served at other places
find that movie really meaningful and well done. It was
supposed to debut at the south By Southwest Festival in
March twenty twenty, and then COVID shut it down. So
now as many people know about the film, but it's
out there stream. Last I saw it was on Netflix.
(25:02):
I think you'd like it. I mean, it's it's really
it's really well done.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Now do you have to kind of get off of
a train I'm assuming to write a book. I mean,
you just you just steal the moments.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
I steal the moments. And for me, I don't know
how you wrote yours, but for me, structure is the
most important part of writing a book, whether it's fiction
or nonfiction. And I've written the three novels too, although
I find I'm going to talk.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
To about that.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I find non fiction much easier. Of course it's what
I do day in, day out, but it's but fiction
I find much more difficult.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Do you enjoy it fiction?
Speaker 2 (25:34):
I do?
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Do you wish I had more time for it?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
No?
Speaker 1 (25:39):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
But you wrote a series of about about a couple.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
I wrote a series of murder mysteries.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
I wrote a series Charlie and Margaret Martyr. The first
one is The hell Fire Club, takes place during the
Joe McCarthy years. The second one is The Devil May Dance,
takes place during the rat Pack years. And the third
one is All the Demons Are Here. It takes place
in in nineteen seventy seven. And actually right now I'm
talking to I've I'm working with some folks out in
(26:07):
Hollywood about turning the second one, the rat Pack one,
into a possible streamer.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Was there a period there where You're saying to your wife, no, honey,
I gotta go to Vegas. It's research for my book.
I got it.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
There's only I don't think actually we have that many
scenes in Vegas. It's mostly palm springs in la But
you know, I wrote that actually during COVID, and that
was fun to write because you know, I'd be dealing
with COVID. This is back when I was broadcasting from
my garage, you know, above the garage during COVID, when
like studios were shut down, like from March twenty twenty
(26:41):
to August twenty twenty, I was broadcasting from home and
during that period where I had free time because there
was no commute and you know, our kids were being
educated at home educated quote unquote, I would write a
scene and then I would come back to reality. And
it was very enjoyable because it was just like I'd
just spent two hours eating Italian food with the rat
(27:02):
Pack and that was a great rescue and respite from
the horror of that era.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
I did this gambling movie called The Cooler, and I
got nominated for an Oscar for Best Supporting Actor. And
I go to dinner at this famous joint.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
It's a great movie. That's William H.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Macy right, yeah, Bill Macy Yeah. And the guy that
directed it was a great guy who I just loved him,
Wayne Kramer. I'm going into this restaurant after the Oscars
to have dinner and there's Tina Sinatra. Oh wow, not Nancy.
There's Tina Sonata with a bevy of people at the table,
and she goes, somebody get this kid a script. Kid.
I was like, you know what the ninth This is
two thousand and three. I was in my forties, So
(27:38):
you go, somebody get this kid a script. He should
play pop in a movie. You should play my pop
in a movie. I'm going, oh my god.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
I met her too. I met Tina too. She came
up to me. I was in La and she came
up to me. I was like waiting outside a restaurant,
and I told her, you know, I'm like, hey, I
wrote this book and your dad's a character in it.
And I sent her a copy of her of the book,
and she sent me a copy of hers. My portrayal
of him was not as a bad guy, but certainly
he was. He was a dark figure with suicide attempts
(28:07):
and all sorts of did he really Oh yeah, you
know what I learned about him when researching my book
is really interesting. Ava Gardner really broke his heart and
he tried god suicide. But you know, one of the
things about Sinatra that people don't realize is the degree
to what he and JFK broke up. And in fact,
(28:28):
in that famous birthday party for President Kennedy at Madison
Square Garden and she sings when Rolyn Monroe sings, and
she's drunk and pilled out and just a complete mess.
And if you watch the whole thing, not just like
the sexy clip, if you watch the whole thing, you'll
say she's a complete and utter disaster. And she dies
a few months later. But Sinatra's not there. Frank Sinatra
(28:50):
is not there, and it's because they had this breakup.
And this is kind of like what inspired me to
write this book. JFK is going out to California, He's
going out to la This is a true story, and
Sinatra wants him to stay at his Rancho mirage right
near pul Springs estate and he builds a helipad, and
(29:11):
he has additional rooms added and he has phone lines
put in for the press, and people at the FBI
tell Robert Kennedy, the Attorney General, you can't be waging
war against the mob. And then your brother goes to
Sinatra's house like Sinatra's he has mob ties. You know,
he's legitimately got mob tized, which he did. Sam Gankanna
(29:34):
and others were friends of his. And at that point,
Sinatra's connection to the Kennedy family is over because the
father had the stroke in December nineteen sixty two. That
was his real that was his close connection to the family.
And Bobby, who Sinatra hated, and who hated Sinatra. He
Kai bashes the visit. So Kennedy stays with like bing
(29:59):
cross be like the ultimate insult and exactly and the
guy who can really see and Sinatra when he gets
the news, he loses his shit and he takes a
sledgehammer to the helipad. And when I heard this story,
and it's a true story, when I heard it, I
was like, oh my god, I have to set my
next novel in this, and so I did. That's what
The devil My Dance is about. But in any case,
(30:21):
Like I just couldn't even that's a movie. I know,
I couldn't even believe it. And it's just like but
but people don't realize the degree to which they like
they ended on bad terms that when Kennedy got assassinated,
he and Sinatra we're not friends anymore.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
I have a theory about him, a funny theory. And
I'm ashamed to admit this or embarrassed, but not really.
And I thought, here's a guy I could have been
best friends with him. I could have been best friend.
Want to know what, because I would have told him
the truth. Yeah, I would have said, don't do that,
don't say this, don't you You're You're a person who
is you are a god in the music industry.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Now, like a lot a lot of guys get so
big in their career, they don't want that.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Right.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
We all need it. We all need it. I need it,
You need it. We all need somebody. And if you're
lucky enough, that person might be your spouse, even I
mean that's my case, and also my staff. My staff
will tell me also. But I think that's one of
the problems Trump has. I think that's one of the
problems Biden had I think, you know, I think a
lot of times you need people like that to say no,
(31:16):
don't do that bad idea. And you know those guardrails
are necessary. But I'm sure you and that's not just
take away your dream. I mean, you know, when you
when you go to bed, if you want to have
a dream about being in the rap pack, I think
you'd be a good one.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Journalist and author Jake Tapper, If you're enjoying this conversation,
tell a friend and be sure to follow Here's the
Thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify, or wherever you'll get
your podcasts when we come back. Jake Tapper takes us
behind the scenes of his first presidential debate in twenty fifteen.
(32:04):
I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing.
Jake Tapper has moderated several high profile presidential debates for CNN.
He first moderated the twenty fifteen GOP primary debate, which
drew a record number of viewers. In twenty nineteen and
twenty twenty, Tapper co moderated key Democratic debates, as well
(32:28):
as the infamous and only Biden Trump general election debate
in twenty twenty four, alongside Dana Bash. Praised for his
thorough preparation, Tapper nonetheless faced criticism for not fact checking Live.
I was curious if Tapper relished the opportunity to earn
such a high profile assignment.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Oh no, I was terrified, right, terrified. I had done
debates before, primary debates, never a presidential It's one of
those things you know you have to do. I don't know,
is it maybe like when you were cast in Streetcar.
I don't know, Like, you know you have to do it,
and you know you hope you're going to rise to it.
But god, it was nerve wracking.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
I have to block out the intrusive thoughts when I'm
doing street Car. Yeah, that was tough. And then I
met him. I had lunch with him at his house
in La and I said, I said, I know, I
did street Car. He goes, yeah, I heard about that
from my friends. They said they saw you and then
you were very very good. You were very good. Oh yeah,
And he goes, I know. My friends told me you
tried to make it funny, and I wish I had
(33:32):
done that because it's a very funny part. There's a
lot of humor in that part and I wish I'd
done that. And there's a long pause, and I go,
but you're happy with the way it worked out, correct,
I mean, it all worked out for you, you know
the way you did. You chose to do it. And
he's like, now, the one thing I'm always into is
you did a lot of reporting about Enron.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
I did back in the day.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
When you reported that story. Do you think that that's
business as usual now everyone's doing the same thing.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
It's so funny you say that, because I do this
show called You United States of Scandal. It's a just
like a six episode show that we do like once
every year or two. And in the second season we
did Enron. And I went back and looked at the
stuff I did covering Enron in I guess that was
two thousand and one, two thousand and two, and I had,
you know, some really good sources, and so I was
able to break some good stories there. People went to
(34:20):
prison in Enron, and I think that people don't go
to prison for that kind of thing anymore. It feels
that way, doesn't it, Like, I mean, nobody or very
few people. I mean, it depends on how you do
the math. But like the housing crisis in two thousand
and eight and all the slimy chicanery that went on there.
I don't think anybody major went to prison despite the
(34:43):
fact that they were making millions, hundreds of millions of
dollars off of the despair of the American people.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
The run thing always pushes me toward this idea that
and this is one of the most passionate things for me.
That I just drives me insane. And that is this
country and conservatives and think tanks and everybody who were
the framework, if you will, of the conservative pro business
movement or pro business consciousness. They are all the same
and this is one of their greatest successes. But if
I stand up and I advocate for no oil drilling,
(35:10):
and there's nothing in it for me, right, nothing in
it for me, right. Yeah, that's why people dismiss you.
When the head of an oil company stands up and
testifies on behalf of legislation and wants to change legislation,
so he's going to get millions of dollars worth of
stock oppers when they come down the other end of
the pipeline. I'm like, that doesn't bother you. People who
will motivate, But in America. It doesn't.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
It doesn't, it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
You're right, look at those guys who are like, well,
ex officiow, that's his job. I mean, yes, job.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Well, it's also just why people. I mean, it polls
well to tax the wealthier individuals. But it's not the
slam dunk with every community that you think it might be.
Because people think that they're going to be rich someday too.
That is part of the American.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Yes, although Gray Davis was a good guy. I liked
him his persona when he was in office. He was
a good guy. He is a good guy. I liked
him a lot.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
I mean that recall I went out to LA I
had just started at ABC News, and Diane Sawyer and
the executive producer of Good Morning America, Shelly Ross, took
a shine to me and they sent me out there
to cover the recall. And wow, what a goat fuck
that was. Do you remember Arianna Huffington was running. Yes,
here's a little lesson for anybody young listening. The reason
(36:20):
that Diane Sawyer and Shelley Ross took a shine to
me and this is I had just started at ABC.
I was staying in corporate housing in DC. They just
moved me back from New York, where I lived for
a year, and Arnold had announced on I think the
Tonight Show with Jay Leno that he was running for governor,
And so the email went out internally at ABC, and
I reached out to Diane and Shelley and said, oh,
(36:43):
I'd love it was like nine o'clock at night. I'd
love to come in right now do a piece for
tomorrow morning about Arnold running. And I have all these
ideas for clips from movies that he did that we
can make fun for the viewer and blah blah blah.
And they liked it and like it was. Honestly, just
raising your hand and doing the work is and I'm
sure this has been the experience in your career as well,
(37:04):
just raising your hand and doing the work.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
You know, people say, why do I do the podcast?
I have a chance to do not a deep dive,
but certainly a deep bird dive than what I see.
I'm reading this article in an older New Yorker now
where the guy is writing Menanda is writing a review
of the William F.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Buckley book. Oh yeah, I find Buckley so intriguing. You
should have Chris on Chris Buckley. I wonder what he
thinks about this biography.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Interesting, that's a good cue, that's a good call.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
He is so fascinated. Do you know the story about
when Buckley got a guy out of prison. It's this
fascinating story. William F. Buckley takes on the charge of
this guy who's in prison who insists he's innocent, and
Buckley lobbies for him. And the guy's very literate and
has self taught and is a writer. And then the
(37:50):
guy gets out and he tries to kill someone else.
He was guilty the whole time.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Jack Henry, Yeah, but is a guy that Mailer helped
to get.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Sprung and he was guilty too.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
And then he went out, well he went out. I
think he tried to kill somebody else.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
So that's incredible that Buckley did it. So Buckley did it.
It's incredible. One thing they have in common, the bucks
of Buckley. Buckley picks him up from prison, drives him
to the studio and they shoot two episodes of firing
Line in a row. And I mean, and by the way,
I'd like I have no doubt that Buckley was convinced
(38:21):
that the guy was innocent, and this was noble and
he was trying to do a good thing. And I'm
not making light of it at all, but it's just
a fascinating and horrifying story.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
That's a great doc to compare and contrast the two
of them advocating.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
I didn't know Malely did that. I need to look
up mailer.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Let me just say, I'm a huge fan of yours.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Well, thank you so much. Ellen.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
My news diet. But I come home and I'm down
on a couch. My kids are having their dinner, and
I don't bother having dinner with them anymore because they
just ignore me. And then and then we hang out afterward.
But I sit down in front of a TV and
watch the lead nearly every day. That's a big part
of my news feed.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Thank you so much. That's very very kind of you.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
My thanks to journalist and author Jake Tapper. This episode
was recorded at CDM Studios in New York City and
Monk Music in Easthampton, New York. We're produced by Kathleen Brusso,
Zach MacNeice, and Victoria de Martin. Our engineer is Frank Imperial.
Our social media manager is Danielle Gingrich. I'm Alec Baldwin.
(39:25):
Here's the thing. Is brought to you by iHeart Radio
Host
Alec Baldwin
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