September 3, 2019 • 48 mins
At the end of the 1950s, James Caan, son of a German-Jewish butcher, had been kicked out of ROTC and was too poor to finish college on his own. He started a job for his godfather unpacking meat along the docks of the Hudson River. Less than a decade later, he was starring alongside John Wayne and Robert Mitchum in El Dorado, just a few years from Coppola's giving him a lead in The Godfather. In his unmistakable Queens patois, Caan tells Alec the wonderful, unlikely story of his rise to stardom. That story includes his many marriages, even more fistfights, and heretofore untold details from the sometimes-violent set of The Godfather. Plus what sort of roles Caan wanted but didn't get because of typecasting.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing.
Actor James Kahn is tougher than tough. It was Coppola
who first saw a spark of danger in this Jewish
kid from rough and Tumble Sunnyside, Queens. Cohn's characters, especially
the early ones, are volatile, with liberal dashes of mischief
(00:26):
and humor. In the Godfather, he was Sonny Corleone, a reckless,
cold blooded killer. There are lots of killers and lots
of great actors in The Godfather, only Cohn pulled it
off with that grin and shoa a vive. The streets
of Queens are still his spiritual home, but today can
(00:48):
lives in Beverly Hills, where he invited me for this conversation.
His assistant Mikey is never far away. Come sit with us.
By the way, the Cleveland needs a pollock what. There's
no denying that con plays a certain type. He was
a hard bitten gambler in El Dorado, and another hard
(01:10):
bitten gambler in The Gambler. He broke into safes in
thief and into houses in flesh and bone. He loved
his macho rolls, but they frustrated him too. I didn't
get a fucking script that didn't have twelve people dead
by bite twenty I mean for three years and then
someone said, oh, wait a minute, you can sing, and Nancy, yeah,
(01:31):
well did you know that? Nobody ever asked me. You know,
I'd like to do that. So my ambition is not
to be a tough guy to you and me when
we grew up. You see, you've got a bottle of water.
The very top level of that bottle his angle. That's
the first one we draw on where we come from. Right,
(01:54):
does that make anything? Yes? And when I when when
I did street Her on Broadway back in, people said
to me, uh, they said to me, but that must
be great to get all that anger out of your
system every night. And I said, you know what, I
realized about four or five weeks in, I'm not that angry.
I said, I would go out on stage some night,
said I want to go, Blanche, Why don't you? When
(02:14):
I sit down and have a cup of coffee, we
make nice with each other. And you've had a little
different career than I have, though not too much. Let's
just say that. But maybe the best way to do
is to do this you're savvy. You cracked people up.
You grow up in New York bub blah blah blah blah.
How many brothers and sisters did you have one of each?
(02:37):
None of them in the business. Oh no, no, no,
you know, my neighborhood was like, I don't know, it
wasn't very conducive to the arts. What do they do?
My brother still doesn't know. Right. And your sister she
passed away. She's married and had kids, had a family. Yeah,
she was the latest. She was like my best friend.
(03:00):
I tell you that she's she's the only person in
the world that was genuinely afraid of, really afraid of
he s he was the best. What did your dad do?
A butcher? He was a butcher. Yeah, most of my
family were. I mean his side, we're um. He was
from Germany and uh he came over. He was the
middle son guy like your dad and had hands like
(03:27):
shoe boxes. He came over and he brought the rest
of the family. He had two brothers and a sister.
He brought them over. But he was he became like
a middleman, you know. He got down to the meat
market where some of my relatives where my my my
godfather was down and had one of them freezers, you know,
down in fourteen Street, and and you go and he
(03:50):
had like ten fifteen customers, you know, some of the
restaurants you've eaten, and he's sold direct to them. Yeah. Yeah,
we drove around and m Yeah. I went to Michigan
State when I was sixteen, not because I was smart.
I don't even go there. They wanted me out of
that school so bad. So I took one summer course
and they got rid of me because I became president
(04:11):
of the student But I was fourteen years old. But
I was big already. I'm three inches shorter than I
was then. So I went to Michigan State to play
at me home. Yeah, my mother kept saying, why don't
you swim? Can't you swim? I come home taped up
to my butt, you know, It's just like and and
then I got home sick because my girlfriend and everything
(04:33):
was back home, you know. So I transferred the Hopstra
and it was that I had that one year. Wait,
you know, Howdy Myers was the coach there then, and
know where'd she dared coach? I just I didn't know
what I wanted. I changed my major every three minutes.
And and then uh, it was an n OLDTC school hopster.
(04:59):
So Tuesdays and Thursdays you had to get the uniform
on and everything. You know. It was the biggest second lieutenant.
And then I think two weeks from graduation, I was
on my way to class in my uniform. Everything was spiffy,
but I didn't have my name tag on. I had
lost it. Whatever is it? So, yes, sir, what was
(05:21):
your name to it? I said, you know, you gotta
be kidding me right now. One thing that now I'm
gonna fits with. The two of them were on the
floor outside the commonans off, going well, it's going well,
it's going really well. So that was the end of
my RTC career right there. And then I started to
go to work with my pop, you know, down the market.
(05:45):
He got me a job with my godfather who had
a big freezer. And these trailers used to come in
from Texas and my job was lifting these hind quarters
of beef awful hook that did not roll, and walking
to the back of the sixteen wheeler, putting him on
a hook that did roll, and rolling him into the freeze.
It was nice getting into the freezer. I swear to
(06:06):
God because it was the warmest place in the in
the in the joint, you know, it was like right
off the river down there, and it was colder than
a well digger's ass. I mean it was. Yeah. And
that started about four thirty five in the morning, and
I kept thinking, I'm working out for something, but I
had not gonna work out for actually anyway, I knew
I didn't want to do that for the rest of
(06:27):
my life. It just came over me like this is
not it. So my dad was a tough German guy,
and over something about him was very different, like I
don't I can't explain it. He'd come up with things
that were really shocked that a butcher is not supposed
to come up with. You know. His best friend was
(06:49):
named Johanna Sheeper was a big artist, and you know,
it doesn't make sense when I started doing this for
a living. My dad was very receptive because he didn't
do what he wanted to do with his life. Like
my dad went to law school for one year at
Syracuse and then he dropped out because my mother's father
(07:10):
was paying for it and he had too much pride.
He didn't want the father in law to pay for
him to go to finish school. The minute he could
get a job teaching down on Long Island, he quit.
He didn't go to law school, and he always regretted it.
I didn't know it was when I asked, I went
to the neighborhood playhouse, right. I didn't know what way
to go. I didn't know what to do. So she
(07:32):
this neighborhood playhouse. I always enjoyed making people laugh, you know,
I mean yeah, I said, how am I gonna tell
my father? I'm going to the I want to go
to the neighblood play Now I go to the neighborhood playhouse.
It's ten days before school starts, to the neighborhood playhouse.
So I go in and I go, uh, I want
to go to school here, And they go for next year. No,
(07:56):
for this year. I want to go. No. No, you
have to have re interviews over the cour city. Yeah,
you have to have one in September, one of Reember,
one of like a June. Because they don't took thirty
guys and thirty girls. So I said, can I say
to something? Mr Pressman's office there for do what you want?
So I did, and I went and I said, sure enough,
(08:18):
I wasn't. At twenty minutes, somebody was late with somebody
would and I walked in and I talked to me much.
I thought I was a complete wacko. And he took
me right there and there. Now I had the problem
of telling my pop. Of course the eight hundred bucks
by the way, you know, a lot of money. Yeah.
So so now, well I go to work with him.
(08:40):
I'm going to work with him, So I'm gonna truck.
I acted all real tough for everything. Oh, he was brutal.
And and we were coming up eight the avenue. I
think we had stopped at Competios right that, the dance place,
you know. So I said, hey, Pop, what do me
if ivor pool over here? You're a ballet dancer. Now, yes,
(09:03):
wait a minute, I gotta get something for school. What
do you what do you mean got go? Do you
mean what I mean? It's English? I'm you know, I'm
trying to be a way here with him and kill me.
I said, I gotta go here, I gotta get something
to school. We'll take a long No, no, I'll just
go up and pick it up. I'll be right down.
I go upstairs. Sure enough. I have no idea, Dad,
(09:25):
spelled leot odds, you know, the whole of the leotards,
the top saying the thing and the ballet slippers. Yeah. Yeah.
So they handed to me in this plastic in this
plastic bag with a button on it. You know, have
a little button on a plastic bag. I said, excuse me,
what you've got a brown bag? You got a brown
paper bag. No, that's the way they come. I understand that.
(09:47):
But yeah, they looked all around it got be a
brown paper bag and put it and I jumped in
a truck. I said, okay, let's go pop. What's in
a bag? Dad? It's something for school. I can just
see if I'm going, Jimmy, if you're running numbers right now,
you can be honest with me. That that a bag
of money. Jimmy, what are you doing? It was worse.
(10:10):
I'm again, No, what's the big? I showed him the big?
He never said another word. Alec He sat there and
whistled all the way home, just whistled. They just whistled.
He went for you know, you were there for how long?
Neighborhood playoffs? One year? And what happened? Because the speech
(10:34):
teacher asked me to get a late slip once I go,
excuse me, what a late slip? I'm paying eight? N't
it all? Let's go to the school. And she didn't
like my attitude and you left. Now they left, they
claiming me I was the only guy that kind of
kind of made that class. What was the first job
(10:54):
he got? I got an off roadway show roned author
Niecess Laurent, and I did it for about seven eight
months a week thirty eight fifty take home, brother, Are
you living at home? You got your know? I was
living in the taj Ma Hall, of course. I mean
(11:15):
I was eighteen and nineteen, and I worked two jobs.
I worked at Continental Can Company, and then I worked
at the Rockaway as a rife guard, you know. But
then I met this beautiful girl named dj who was
the lead dancer on the Mitch Miller show You're Even Too.
She lived out in Jersey. So I used to wait
(11:39):
get my dad's struck cleaning up the blood in the back.
You know, it was a big station where and remembered
them green dingle daggles you put all over the car,
smelled good pine them all over the cart at a
blanket at the back, and I'd go over there and
one day, me and a couple of my my Italian brothers.
They took me in the nineteen forty a week with
(12:00):
running boards and everything to North Carolina with her and
I borrowed ten dollars from my mother. They take me.
We drive to North Carolina, Halifax, North Carolina, which is
the closest place you go to without needing like a
blood test. So I go to Halifax. It's six in
the morning when we get there. We drove around looking
(12:21):
for justice a piece. Okay, wait a minute, he put
on his boat. What the into the living room, he says,
So what kind of a what kind of a ceremony
would you? Like? I said, fast, would be good. We
got married, my bodies, We got a watermelon. Did you
come from a generation that marrying a woman was always
(12:43):
the right thing to do before you lived with her?
It was it like a value, you know. I just
didn't want to ready to have a Yeah, yeah, yeah,
don't touch I mean fights like I mean, I was
arranging fan back then. So you go there, and I
mean I was totally belonged in a home because if
I catch some guy who just the game's over there?
(13:04):
What are you doing there? So what are you what
are you doing? What do you? Oh? It was terrible.
I was terrible, really, but it's my girl, you know.
So when we got married, I took her home because
nobody knew that was twenty one right. So my dad
would lay on the couch like this would a would
a wife, beer on, watching wrestling whatever. I come in
(13:30):
and my father never looked up. Well you've been um.
We went out where, you know, a few drinks. Would
you get married? My right hand to guard with that
I heed is laughter like you never heard in your life.
(13:50):
For my mother inside cracking up a laughs as she heard, Yes,
he parted the knowledge to get married. It's the funniest
thing I've ever heard. How do you? How do you
think you? Father? I don't know. The guy was weird.
He told me the first thing he told me. I
remember this poem he told me when I was twelve.
(14:10):
A good friend is hard to find. You always get
the other kind. But when you find one staunch and true,
make sure you fucked him before he fucked you. That's
the first ball. I What I want to say is
when you when you did Land and you're doing the
play for eight months in New York, did you like
(14:32):
the theater. Did you like live theater? When do you
see this? I want to get into TV in the movies.
I want to get into that. When do you make
the time? The only thing that was on television in
New York was the Naked City had just opened, you
know that started that was Naked City. Then then uh
such kind had Playhouse Third Team, and I did that
(14:56):
with Redfoot with obviously Ruby d and Dave was a
live three cameras show devon Asian at the time. Yeah, Jones, Scott,
that's how you got in the door yet an asient.
Somebody repped you. Yeah, and then I got the Route
sixty six came into Philadelphia. I got that. So but
the point I think I'm making is that I waited
(15:18):
for three or four years before I got our own audition.
Now this maybe or maybe not, but it may not be.
But I got the first four jobs auditioned for, and
I think it's because I waited, you know, like you
know acting that you know, or all actors should know,
there's so much luck invout and you can't bullshit. You
(15:38):
don't want to tell people the truth. Yeah, I see
young people and I'm like, is that you're studying you're
at a great program. That's great. But but I don't
want to break their heart and say it is a
lot of luck, a lot of luck. So I see
some people, I mean today, like you know, I teach now.
I'm teaching now, which is nice. I like to enjoy it.
But you see talented people you can't. You know, You've
(16:00):
got to be in the right place at the right time.
What's the first movie you made? Parallan called me and
I did a picture called Lady in a Cage, of course,
and Olivia to Havelin, who was like a nun I
don't know. I mean she was a beautiful, gorgeous, non
elegant woman, elegant, unbelievable for people who don't know. She's
(16:21):
trapped in the elevator in her house. And you were
the I'm playing, which I got nauseous when I showed
a perform It was a nauseous Who directed it, Walter Grauman?
But you nervous to be making your friend. I was nervous.
He didn't. He didn't. She got me nervous, not because
she was a huge star, but she was such a
(16:42):
lady and I had to go ya flack and dashing
your f and net and you did that? How do
you snuck in her face? That was like you talked
about character work. I couldn't do it. You know. It
was hard. It was really hard. Been there where I
played somebody who's tough and who's that? Uh, that's my brother. Yeah,
(17:06):
I placed somebody in a movie. You know, years ago,
I do a movie and if I had to be
really mean or abusive to somebody that I admired, I
do the movie Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross, and I wrote Lemon,
And I'm there with Jack Lemon, and I'm thinking, I
love this guy and I have to I have to
just completely wipe my shoes right on his face and
being so mean to him. I hated that the guys
(17:27):
were really but but but she was already like a thing,
like I remember going to watching her in a movie,
you know, like she was such a lady. Did you
move out here then? No? What happened was I did
everything that was to do in New York, So I did.
It was called black was written by Reginald Rose. This
playoffs thirteen or whatever they called it, uh and uh
(17:53):
Lamont Johnson directed it. But every Stollards in it. I mean,
I mean it was just cons of people in it,
you know, Pat Engle and Dish and that Ruby, d
Zzy Davis, Uh Redford and everybody. Yeah. So we did
that live and then after that I started getting calls
from out here studios. Yeah, I mean you have to
(18:17):
come out to do Dr Kildare or whatever the hell
it was. So, you know, I go out here and
I there's a cow town. What are you driving a
half hour for a paper? What are you sending me?
I try to get the red eye home, you know,
back into the subway, you know, just how to get
back there. And I did that for a while and
(18:39):
uh when we got oh, by the way and the
end of the marriage story, this can go on? Can
we do this for three hours? Maybe have to come
back and do parts two? But well, much as we
call it, I remember when you used to laugh ship,
I'm producing a very serious interview program, very serious about
your career, a more seriou smell your career than you are.
(19:01):
But very quickly she didn't want to come out of here. No. No.
What happened was, first of all, her parents that were
religious Catholics, okay, and I wasn't religious anything. You know,
my buddies were Catholic. I went to church, so you know.
(19:22):
But they she went home and they wouldn't let me
see her, right, they wouldn't let me see her. I
was married to her. They should listen. We want you
to get married in the church. I go, I can't
do that, I said, because I know I have to
sign a paper saying I raised my kids Catholic, and
I can't do that. I mean, I don't care, but
(19:43):
I had family that died and don some concentration camps
just for being a jail so I just can't do that.
I'm not a Catholic. Yeah, I'm not a Catholic. I
wouldn't mind being a Catholic. It makes no difference to me,
but it makes a difference to my family and everybody else.
I guess, you know. So no, no, you won't have
to because we know him. We'll meet you in directory
(20:05):
and we'll talk and you won't have to sign. Of course,
I said, okay, And of course everything I said was true.
So I went home and they kept in. Finally, one
night she was doing the Miss Miller's show and her
girlfriend called, this is so romantic. I just go, do
you want your wife? Twenty one years old you want
your wife, she's up here in the bronx. She's at
(20:25):
my house. So overtook the meat weg and the buddy wear,
just like laughing the thing on, you know, the thing.
And she was laying at his four post to bed
and but I got man, did work become more important?
I came out, you know, I came out. I said, honey,
(20:45):
I'm gonna go out, but you know I can't keep
flying back, and I'll go out. And I literally got
four jobs in five weeks out of here, you know,
leads on like the graphic suspension. And then I called
for and she came out, and then she did the
Judy Colland show. She wonderful answer, and then and then, uh, yeah,
I don't know, man, I just don't know. I was
(21:07):
too young, but it was probably too young to be
trying to make it happy. And the number really mixed
that up. You know, I really never did. My life
was my family that comes always. You didn't want the
business to become the most important thing in your life
because I've seen too much destruction already at a young age.
When did work change? And the next thing, you know,
(21:29):
you're above the title and you're the star of the
film that really happened quick, you know, Okay? My first
one was that then I did right one was with
John Wayne and Mitchell. Between those two waves, you know,
in what movie Mitchell, who I loved you? You would
(21:50):
have went? What was it like with Wayne? How did
Wayne treat you? Is it kind to you? This is
great Mitchell. He came back two three weeks later, sort
of first week and a half. It's just me and Wayne.
It's like what we meet and then we go on
this ride and he buys me had stupid gardener? Where
do you know there's had called me Mississippi? No mind
(22:10):
you you know I have our endless hours talking with Strasburg.
And John was a friend of mine, his son we
played bold together in the park and this, and so
I'm trying to draw in this and so whying to
be professional, and and then I listened, Now, look a kid,
why did you have to go and do that? This
(22:33):
is the dialogue of the movie. Why did you go
and do that? Luke wid you have to go and
do that? What do these breaths come from? But I'm
looking at him like, you know the reality of it,
of whatever bullshit? I just smiled. I just kept smiling. There.
You meet these people and you know that has this
effect on you. As I left this series I did
(22:54):
called Knots Landing that was a very popular show on TV.
My character was killed off the show. They were on
on Ava Gardner to play Bill Devane's mother, and I
was leaving and I think I was done shooting, and
they said, why don't you come back next week? Come
on the lot, and you know you still have your
pass and everything. Come and meet have a Gardener And
she's sitting there in a director's chair smoking a cigarette.
She looks like a million bucks. She's older, but she's
(23:16):
like and she said, it's so nice to meet you, baby.
She calls you a baby. That was so nice to
meet you, baby. What a pleasure. But then when you're
on a set and you're shooting and you're making a movie,
like the first big movie I did was Hunt for
Red October and Sean Connery comes walking on. I'll never
forget they did his makeup tests and his camera tests
and all the old school in the uniform and the hair,
(23:38):
and we're gonna shoot the first day and he walks
on and so help me got out with myself. I'm fucked.
I said, no one's ever gonna see me in this movie.
They're gonna cut me out of the movie. I said,
look at the guy. He looks like ten million dollars
stacked up, so he was so perfect looking. And they
would say cut and he dabt un to me. I
did say, are do you go into the Russia's boy
(24:02):
during lunch and I'd say, said the Russia is the
dailies of the of the footage And I said no,
I wasn't going to go to the rushes and nobody
invited me. He said, how do you ever expect to
learn anything if you don't go to the rushes? And
he was like, sham to me, and I'll go to
the dailies. We watched the dailies and I'll never forget
(24:24):
thinking to myself, this guy movie start him as something
you can't put your finger on it. He'd sit there,
he always knew where the camera was. He'd say the
line and turn into the shot. And I remember men
we sailed into history and he turned into the camera
and he was remember thinking to myself, I wonder if
(24:44):
I could ever learn all the things this guy knows
about the camera and how to perform in front of
the camera. It was beautiful. That's funny. You know. You
bring that up because I remember very clearly when we
did all little things together a couple of time, you
didn't impress me like that. I mean, that's not impressive
to me one way. I mean, that's me. But I
(25:05):
just want to finish the point that there's not a
stupid sy Uh watch the mic talking to the mic. Yeah.
So now Mitchell comes like a couple of weeks later.
I don't mean hybody went and sold the dailies and
I had that stupid hat on in order that that
and the first thing he said to me, Hey, Jimminy cricket,
he called me Jimmy. He's the greatest. Hey, Jiminy what
(25:29):
he says? You're doing a lot of smiling and Jimminy
cricket he said, I said, what do you want me
to do? You ever hear this guy talked? You know,
and Wayne, if you were affected by him, he would
never get off, would never get off. You know. He
was like a kid man. He just enjoyed it. We
come around this corner, the bad guys all the way
down the end of his Western street, ding the bar
(25:51):
a bad guys. Okay, hawks got the whole street set up,
stagecoach and people are walking up and down at night,
big set up. Wayne turns to me, says, nah, look
at kids when you say that their line. I want
you to turn around and give me that look you
give me. Smiling, he says, you know that looked at
(26:15):
you give me. He guess he caught me smile a little.
Whatever it was, Just turn around and give me that
look you give me. We come running around the corner,
he says, his eyes. I say my line. God, they
gotta wipe the horses down and everything, you know, to sweat.
Every takes another if I was set up here, we
get ready. Wayne turns to me. He says, nah, look
(26:36):
at it when you say that, Caroline, give me that
luck you give me. Okay, duck actual street stow spooming.
We come running around the corner, he says, his eyes.
I say my line. God, he let me out of
(26:56):
it anyway the third time now and I'm steaming. Sonny
side is coming out and me so he had the
balls to go. Now look at kid again, and I
turned around her and I read up and missed him.
Crabbed me from behind and went oh, we usually no,
(27:16):
And from that moment on we became the best friend,
miss him. I mean, Wayne, Wayne, you stood up for yourself.
He groved that. And then they invited me to drink
with them. I'm like twenty three, and there went a
bottle of scarship for him. And then he would fill
my uh dressing rooms with garbage when I wasn't there
and he had the guy locked it up, but I'd
(27:37):
come and opened my dressing Why is it locks would
come about? You know, you were twelve year old kid.
Your hawks direct him or nobody directed him? Yeah? I
mean did he stand up to him and tell him
what he wanted? He's never got to that. It was
never like it was never that. You know, they know
Wayne was Wayne. He did what he wanted to do. Yeah,
(27:58):
she miss him was the opposite. I met him. Didn't
never wanted you to see him working. He was like embarrassed,
but he was so good, so good. I guess the
next obvious question, when does Francis call you? How does
that called me? Now I knew Francis. He's like a
year older than me. Okay, so when he was twenty three,
(28:21):
he had written Patton already and he stayed with me.
His grandmother lived around the corner from where I lived.
You know, Sony said, you know on on Skillman Avenue.
I didn't know him and I didn't know her. He
also went to Hopster where I I didn't know him
me to. I remember him calling me to through the
rain people, which is really kind of interesting. Was the
(28:43):
first time any picture, you know, it was done like
that with a crew of eighteen. We traveled all across
the country. But I think it was like a second
picture thing. You know. He wanted me to do Apocalypse.
I didn't do it because here the Philippines for eighteen months.
That's exactly what he said. But it was match sixteen weeks.
Please stop, candimon ship play any part you want, any
(29:06):
American part you want. So I go up to sod
Trope and I said, I want to play Colonel Cornerge.
He just mowed the beach. It was a great role.
He said, Oh, I gave that to Gene Hackman. What
what did you ask me to pick any part for?
You know, why don't you tell me what part you
want me to play? Yeah, I I didn't do it
(29:26):
because Sheila Scott's mom was pregnant and I wasn't going
down to the Philippines. You know, No, No, you don't understand.
You will live in Manila and you've got like eight
servants and every morning will fly to the location. We'll
helicopter to the location. I go. Friends, that's like two
things I don't like. It was like height and set flies.
(29:48):
I don't like it. Okay, yeah, so I I didn't
do that with him, but the rain people I did,
and I did you know a few of them? And
Bobby and who asked you to do the Godfather? Him
or someone else calls you. I said, he wanted you
(30:10):
to play this part in this movie because there were stories.
I always here were you and Marlin and Duval and
al anybody? You had a lot of laughs on this side.
You weren't sitting there taking this like there was. There
was some super serious at that plays the big bard
in a successful movie, in any movie. I believe that
is what you can tell when people like one another.
(30:30):
I don't care what the genre is, I don't care
what the theme is. You can tell when people are
enjoying working with each other. And we all did, and
I think it eminates immediately off the screen. Now when
he and this is so you don't have to share this.
You have to say this, you know what I mean.
It's like I mean, I mean, I don't like to
talk about acting that much of myself, but like with you,
(30:52):
everybody is very Duval is very quiet, and Al is quiet,
and Marlin is quiet, and Gazelle is quiet, and your
character in terms of the symphonics of it, in terms
of the music, you're the real volatile one. You're the
more operatic one. You're the more intemper You're you're the
most You're you're the most tough. You're the most physically
(31:15):
tough brandons an old man in the film. But the
character is and you know, you put you put the
lead in the in the in the chamber. Were the
first scene we shot was in the Jento Olive Oil Company. Okay,
and you'll have to excuse my son. Yeah, no, two
great things happened. I didn't know who I was. That
was the first day. I'm trying to still figure it out.
(31:37):
And I don't go to all that bullshit every day.
You know, you gotta push a button and then the
button works. You gotta find a button. That's the hard thing.
I just really awkward that I just I don't know.
And one interesting thing, this is an a side. I've
watched Brando's He's great and and everybody tried to conquer Brando.
(31:57):
He just wanted to be talked to. That was the
simplest thing. Go ball, you just looked at me. He's
never a problem, never had a problem with Manson. And
this came up in that scene where he says, Salons,
they've told me you were romantic. Respect. I think as
far as I can't say that, you know, he's a
dope deal with you know, whatever his reasons, it's not right.
(32:19):
I've agreed to meet with you because they told me
your alemana will respect you know. So for instance, yeah,
I see what you mean, he says. But the problem
more and is I got I use it in another
scene that very line in the back of the car
with Bobby's in the car with somebody who uses that line,
So you gotta say it. So I'm sitting there like
(32:40):
a young student to watch you and uh, you know,
now most guys will find a place to bury it
in the propers Brando goes so great. I said that
I must see because to do a serious man respect
(33:03):
that one minute he made it so real for himself.
Like he said it, he didn't bury it. It was unbelievable.
It was unbelievable. The guy was great, But how deep
into the shooting because the sunny character, it's it's on
the page because you're banging the woman against the wall
at the wedding. No look, but as everything is behavior.
(33:28):
No disrespect to any writer ever you say their words,
but it's all about behavior. Actor movie star James Kahn.
Another brilliant performer associated with the type, albeit a different one,
is Carol Burnett. Through talent and force of will, she
overcame everything you'd expect from nineteen sixties TV XCS. And
(33:52):
he called me back the next day. He said, Carol,
you know it's not for gals. Comedy variety is a
man's in. They wanted me to do a sitcom and
I said, I don't want to be the same person
week after week. I wanted I want to do this.
My full interview with Carol Burnett is in our archive
at Here's the Thing dot org. This is Alec Baldwin
(34:31):
and you were listening to Here's the Thing when we left.
James Cohn. Coppola had given him the role of a
lifetime in the Godfather, Sonny Corleone, Brando's murderous oldest son.
Con struggled to land the character, but found that after
the first day on set, Vicious Sonny would be based
(34:53):
on screwball insult comic Don Rickles. I swear to guard out.
I was shaving and I was looking at and I
don't know why I thought of Rickles. I just thought
of you used to let me laugh. You know. I
know Riccles because when I was a young guy, I
hung around with all those old comedians. Riccles stuff was
like his proudest moment ever because I told him I
(35:16):
came in the next day. I could have done Hamlet,
I could have done anything as sunny, no matter what,
because I had that behavior. What are you gonna do
to me? What are you gonna do to me? Make blepa?
And I busted everybody's balls from morning till night, and
everybody laughing. Brando couldn't say hello to me without laughing.
(35:39):
Francis is gonna win the same fucking suit like for
nine months. You're sucking animal, do you hear? You will
need a few hours, you know. But the point is
they couldn't take it from me. But what I got
from what you did is this idea of to me,
the sunny character is like, we kill people for a living,
We do a lot of add things for a living.
(36:01):
We had a lot of blood on our hands. We
do bad things to some people to get money. And
what I would get from the Sunny of the movie
was I'm gonna have a good time. Yeah, we're going
to all these lengths to get this money. You know
what I'm I don't know about the rest of you,
is I'm I'm a fucking good time. But the drink
of a dinner, I'm gonna go bang. This brought out here.
(36:21):
I got my safe and and and and that was it,
and I and Francis let me go. I mean all
that stup being in a better that never was there.
It was all it all came out of. And then
weird stuff happened. I remember why I grew up like
all my best friend's Italian. So they maybe had two suits,
(36:44):
but they had twelve pair of shoes. So I said, hey,
to the water, can I have you gave me a
parent of kick? Because you know the black and white,
it's not in the script, so what No, we don't
have the budget. The budget. It was like nothing. One
of the Bronx for ten dollars about the black and
white shoes. You remember the black and white shoes, because
(37:05):
that was tell me. Then I took a broom handle off,
you know the industrial brooms, you remember the big industrial brooms.
I showed them back it out of it and put
it in my car. What are you putting in your
call for? I don't know. It's an attitude of just that.
That's what did you guys carry around on the car?
How do you know? I know? So so all of
(37:25):
that stuff. And then when I broke the guy's camera,
you know, when I'm when I'm coming, when I'm coming,
and take I'm taking the license plate out before do
not Richard CONTI but but but Clemenza, no, you broke
the camera in the in the in the park, I'm
going on taking a spin on the guy's thaying. And
(37:45):
I walked back not not to be filmed. I mean,
so we're supposed to walk in and there's guy took
a picture of me, right. I took this, but it
was expressed it wasn't whatever relics a real one, and
I smashed it, but I improvised. And then Clement. Yeah.
(38:07):
I mean always just let me go. You never stop.
And Clementzer grabbed me and grabbed me. You know it
just come on sunny and I remember my neighborhood. It
was okay, like I broke it. But if anybody did
something like that, they're reaching it pop and I put
twenty on the floor. But think we think about it again.
(38:28):
There there has to be he and this doesn't really
amount to it. But but I was saying what I
worship about you in films, what I loved about you
in films, was there had to be a guy that
that did those things, because Al doesn't do that. Al
shoots the guy very reluctantly, and then he should sterling
take from all lives, don't we. I mean, you've got
(38:48):
to take from your life. I mean, you can't make
that up. But you watch that movie I've seen. But
when you watch that movie, the audience, even though violence
is out of favor, even though people doing those things
is out of favor, you watch that movie realize you've
got to have that moment where the guy goes, you
touched my sister again? No, this, what was this? I
kill you? I remembered it. I didn't think of it.
(39:11):
You remember when you were a kid, My dad did that.
My dad. It wasn't ever thought about anything the night before,
I just went in, bum, push the button, let's play
around and and and you know it was God bless Francis.
(39:33):
But uh yeah, I mean it was. It was really
you know, Francis never sort of fight either until we
shot it. Me and and the stunt man did it.
Carlo's double, you know, not him. Okay, be nice, I
(39:57):
am nice. You're a good kid. Okay. A brief explanation
is called for. Here. Kahn has a famous fight with
Giohnny Russo, the actor who played his brother in law Carlo.
In a minute, you'll hear more about their on screen violence.
To con it was just embodying his character fully. Russo,
on the other hand, even two years ago, was calling
(40:19):
Cohn nuts. He says. The on screen fights left him
with a chipped elbow and two broken ribs. Now back
to the show, So anyway, yeah, France has never saw
anybody fight before. He didn't know how to stage that, right, right.
And then the other thing was I come out of
(40:41):
a car and Collos loots want and you know, up
the street, come in, come, come, come, here or whatever.
I said, come in, coup and come out about ninety times.
So I reached in and I took out my attitude
and Judge didn't plan it, Alec, I swear my mother didn't. Planet.
I took out this and was running and I fired
(41:01):
it at him. Francances it's great, great, But Jimmy, you
look like you want to You missed him by a mile,
showed at him. I hit him, but go ahead. But
I hit him in the coconut on the way up
the sun double not okay, I would have missed it
was stuck the kidding. But but but people want to know.
(41:23):
I mean, you are one of the stars of one
of the greatest films ever made in history. And when
and when you first saw the movie, when you first
saw you sit there and go, how this is a
pretty good movie. No, I was mad. I wouldn't go
to the show. Why you see, Bobby went nuts Evans.
I was staying in my room. I was so piste
off because I had an eight page sheet with Bobby
(41:44):
and they cut it out. You know what's selfish? I said,
what the fuck? You know? They had to come down
begged me to come upstairs to the party. But the
first time you saw the movie. Whenever, the first time
when you saw the movie, what did you think they
shouldn't have cut out that you miserable? Crick? No, no, no, no, no, no,
(42:11):
you know you know, I'm gonna tell you something. Francis.
It ruined his career because he wanted he wanted what
the Allen career. That was his whole thing. He wanted
to write and do his own thing. But this monster
killed his career. You know, we started doing stuff he
didn't want to do. But it's no accident that every
(42:37):
department head that he chose became the biggest in their field.
Walter Merch, I mean, Dean, probably, Gordy will it, you
just name them, Jack Smith, gonna make up. He had
ingenious stuff, like you put a bullet a pace, you
can see a bullet go in your face, I mean everything,
(42:57):
But it was all Francis. And the number one thing
that made that picture successful was the fact that Francis
was a Mediterranean Italian. He was not a Brooklyn Italian.
Everything was okay for the sake of family. Everything. So
when people would ask me, the biggest question asked was
that a real horse's head. Wait a minute, any one.
People got killed, but you don't kill about any Was
(43:20):
that a real horses? Said? Oh yeah, sure that was
a real horses said, I mean it was. Francis was unbelievable.
Francis was unbelievable. And he went to acting school. And
now I've started realizing that, you know, I was out
of north Ridge and looking at their curriculum and think
(43:44):
the guys who were learning to be acted as as
freshman directors as freshman, and then part of their things,
they take two of their people who were also trying
to be and they do scenes with them, and that's
like a mid term or what the who? What's the
sense they're not working with actors, so how do they know?
So in my mind, it's a requirement if you were
(44:06):
a writer, if you were a director or an actor,
you must start with one year of acting trying to
figure actors think you can direct, so you can direct
pull out of them what you need to pull out
of them, you know. And that's the big problem with
like a lot of the movies today. I mean, you know,
I I used to wake a pot a lot of
(44:26):
these guys where I go to the you know, launch
or whatever, you know, as it a studio said, I
got a great it's a little out of the box.
But how about this we do pictures. They got a beginning,
a middle, and an end. Is that cool? What am
I out of a box? Or what? Now? You always?
I mean, in the time we have left, I gotta
go pick up my kids. In the time we have
left in New York, take them to the park every day.
(44:50):
My I swear to God, I pick them up at
five o'clock. The uh. But for a guy that you know,
you've been married a few times, you're you know, you
like women. Did you ever? And you have to you
don't have to answer this question. You have to have
the details. But did you ever? Were you ever working
with these leading ladies? If you're something like, excuse the
ex never go to the bathroom right where you dyed,
(45:15):
you where you're dying. Yes, and you wouldn't true, and
you wouldn't do that. Once, when I was very very young,
you dated an actress. I didn't dat. I went to
you got close with her. I said, would you mind?
She said, certainly not. But you made it a habit
not to do that. I don't think it became habit.
(45:39):
It's just something that I respected. But it's just like
what I mean, I'm not fair to the direct I'm
not fair to to write it. I'm not fair to anybody.
If God forbid, which usually happens, you have a fight
with your girlfriend and you gotta bring in a set
and you've gotta make a love scene. Do a love scene. Um,
your son? You just changed the subject on me. Yes,
(46:01):
when when when Scott gave me a hint? Them? When stop?
When Scott made it clear to you that he wanted
to be an actor, were you encouraging of him? I'm
assuming I never discouraged. You know, he's the best guy.
You never wanted me. He's just a gentleman. He's great,
and he never knew what I did until I was
eight nine years old. I wouldn't, you know, until the
(46:23):
kids on a bus one they said that's your dad,
you know, like it was like that, Yeah, why you know,
he thought I was a coach. He got it like
when he was sixteen. They said they wanted to use
him in some films, so I thought it was kind
of like throw away, you know some and they should
Jimmy what you do? Just want to seeing him? Yeah?
Why not? You know, I never thought the picture would
(46:43):
even escape. Then um, he went. I got him into
Crossroads because they decided they try to make a normal
school out of him, not like an English boys school,
because he was like a C student. But he's a
great athlete, great athlete. So uh he got in a
fight which he into and then they threw him out,
and then he went to Devily hiels. I said, you
(47:04):
can only go to Beverly Hills Hide if you play
baseball again. So he paid baseball. In the middle of
the ear he said, I just signed a contract with
Tommy Boy. What who's Tommy Boy? He went on the
road with Cyprus Hill House of Pain and he had
to little half choose. They called themselves the Lower Level.
It was the greatest thing ever. And he went rapping
(47:25):
all around the country, aid to the motherfucking ca homeboy,
and your Mercedes, who are you kidding? What are you
talking to? So? I mean it was great. So he
just and he's unbelievably right. He he's had four plays
published with the Alec published. But as far as acting,
the material isn't as good my son yours. So if
(47:47):
he becomes an actor, Scott, it's never gonna have the
opportunity that you and I had worked with the best
directors and work with the best screenwriters and the best
this and the best at and you know they're not
going to have that opportunity. We work with great people
out It was as good as there ever was. James
con one of the last of the great old school
(48:09):
movie stars. This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to
Here's the thing you have to understand. I do this
show and I meet these people, I get choked up
and I get choked them
This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing.
Actor James Kahn is tougher than tough. It was Coppola
who first saw a spark of danger in this Jewish
kid from rough and Tumble Sunnyside, Queens. Cohn's characters, especially
the early ones, are volatile, with liberal dashes of mischief
(00:26):
and humor. In the Godfather, he was Sonny Corleone, a reckless,
cold blooded killer. There are lots of killers and lots
of great actors in The Godfather, only Cohn pulled it
off with that grin and shoa a vive. The streets
of Queens are still his spiritual home, but today can
(00:48):
lives in Beverly Hills, where he invited me for this conversation.
His assistant Mikey is never far away. Come sit with us.
By the way, the Cleveland needs a pollock what. There's
no denying that con plays a certain type. He was
a hard bitten gambler in El Dorado, and another hard
(01:10):
bitten gambler in The Gambler. He broke into safes in
thief and into houses in flesh and bone. He loved
his macho rolls, but they frustrated him too. I didn't
get a fucking script that didn't have twelve people dead
by bite twenty I mean for three years and then
someone said, oh, wait a minute, you can sing, and Nancy, yeah,
(01:31):
well did you know that? Nobody ever asked me. You know,
I'd like to do that. So my ambition is not
to be a tough guy to you and me when
we grew up. You see, you've got a bottle of water.
The very top level of that bottle his angle. That's
the first one we draw on where we come from. Right,
(01:54):
does that make anything? Yes? And when I when when
I did street Her on Broadway back in, people said
to me, uh, they said to me, but that must
be great to get all that anger out of your
system every night. And I said, you know what, I
realized about four or five weeks in, I'm not that angry.
I said, I would go out on stage some night,
said I want to go, Blanche, Why don't you? When
(02:14):
I sit down and have a cup of coffee, we
make nice with each other. And you've had a little
different career than I have, though not too much. Let's
just say that. But maybe the best way to do
is to do this you're savvy. You cracked people up.
You grow up in New York bub blah blah blah blah.
How many brothers and sisters did you have one of each?
(02:37):
None of them in the business. Oh no, no, no,
you know, my neighborhood was like, I don't know, it
wasn't very conducive to the arts. What do they do?
My brother still doesn't know. Right. And your sister she
passed away. She's married and had kids, had a family. Yeah,
she was the latest. She was like my best friend.
(03:00):
I tell you that she's she's the only person in
the world that was genuinely afraid of, really afraid of
he s he was the best. What did your dad do?
A butcher? He was a butcher. Yeah, most of my
family were. I mean his side, we're um. He was
from Germany and uh he came over. He was the
middle son guy like your dad and had hands like
(03:27):
shoe boxes. He came over and he brought the rest
of the family. He had two brothers and a sister.
He brought them over. But he was he became like
a middleman, you know. He got down to the meat
market where some of my relatives where my my my
godfather was down and had one of them freezers, you know,
down in fourteen Street, and and you go and he
(03:50):
had like ten fifteen customers, you know, some of the
restaurants you've eaten, and he's sold direct to them. Yeah. Yeah,
we drove around and m Yeah. I went to Michigan
State when I was sixteen, not because I was smart.
I don't even go there. They wanted me out of
that school so bad. So I took one summer course
and they got rid of me because I became president
(04:11):
of the student But I was fourteen years old. But
I was big already. I'm three inches shorter than I
was then. So I went to Michigan State to play
at me home. Yeah, my mother kept saying, why don't
you swim? Can't you swim? I come home taped up
to my butt, you know, It's just like and and
then I got home sick because my girlfriend and everything
(04:33):
was back home, you know. So I transferred the Hopstra
and it was that I had that one year. Wait,
you know, Howdy Myers was the coach there then, and
know where'd she dared coach? I just I didn't know
what I wanted. I changed my major every three minutes.
And and then uh, it was an n OLDTC school hopster.
(04:59):
So Tuesdays and Thursdays you had to get the uniform
on and everything. You know. It was the biggest second lieutenant.
And then I think two weeks from graduation, I was
on my way to class in my uniform. Everything was spiffy,
but I didn't have my name tag on. I had
lost it. Whatever is it? So, yes, sir, what was
(05:21):
your name to it? I said, you know, you gotta
be kidding me right now. One thing that now I'm
gonna fits with. The two of them were on the
floor outside the commonans off, going well, it's going well,
it's going really well. So that was the end of
my RTC career right there. And then I started to
go to work with my pop, you know, down the market.
(05:45):
He got me a job with my godfather who had
a big freezer. And these trailers used to come in
from Texas and my job was lifting these hind quarters
of beef awful hook that did not roll, and walking
to the back of the sixteen wheeler, putting him on
a hook that did roll, and rolling him into the freeze.
It was nice getting into the freezer. I swear to
(06:06):
God because it was the warmest place in the in
the in the joint, you know, it was like right
off the river down there, and it was colder than
a well digger's ass. I mean it was. Yeah. And
that started about four thirty five in the morning, and
I kept thinking, I'm working out for something, but I
had not gonna work out for actually anyway, I knew
I didn't want to do that for the rest of
(06:27):
my life. It just came over me like this is
not it. So my dad was a tough German guy,
and over something about him was very different, like I
don't I can't explain it. He'd come up with things
that were really shocked that a butcher is not supposed
to come up with. You know. His best friend was
(06:49):
named Johanna Sheeper was a big artist, and you know,
it doesn't make sense when I started doing this for
a living. My dad was very receptive because he didn't
do what he wanted to do with his life. Like
my dad went to law school for one year at
Syracuse and then he dropped out because my mother's father
(07:10):
was paying for it and he had too much pride.
He didn't want the father in law to pay for
him to go to finish school. The minute he could
get a job teaching down on Long Island, he quit.
He didn't go to law school, and he always regretted it.
I didn't know it was when I asked, I went
to the neighborhood playhouse, right. I didn't know what way
to go. I didn't know what to do. So she
(07:32):
this neighborhood playhouse. I always enjoyed making people laugh, you know,
I mean yeah, I said, how am I gonna tell
my father? I'm going to the I want to go
to the neighblood play Now I go to the neighborhood playhouse.
It's ten days before school starts, to the neighborhood playhouse.
So I go in and I go, uh, I want
to go to school here, And they go for next year. No,
(07:56):
for this year. I want to go. No. No, you
have to have re interviews over the cour city. Yeah,
you have to have one in September, one of Reember,
one of like a June. Because they don't took thirty
guys and thirty girls. So I said, can I say
to something? Mr Pressman's office there for do what you want?
So I did, and I went and I said, sure enough,
(08:18):
I wasn't. At twenty minutes, somebody was late with somebody
would and I walked in and I talked to me much.
I thought I was a complete wacko. And he took
me right there and there. Now I had the problem
of telling my pop. Of course the eight hundred bucks
by the way, you know, a lot of money. Yeah.
So so now, well I go to work with him.
(08:40):
I'm going to work with him, So I'm gonna truck.
I acted all real tough for everything. Oh, he was brutal.
And and we were coming up eight the avenue. I
think we had stopped at Competios right that, the dance place,
you know. So I said, hey, Pop, what do me
if ivor pool over here? You're a ballet dancer. Now, yes,
(09:03):
wait a minute, I gotta get something for school. What
do you what do you mean got go? Do you
mean what I mean? It's English? I'm you know, I'm
trying to be a way here with him and kill me.
I said, I gotta go here, I gotta get something
to school. We'll take a long No, no, I'll just
go up and pick it up. I'll be right down.
I go upstairs. Sure enough. I have no idea, Dad,
(09:25):
spelled leot odds, you know, the whole of the leotards,
the top saying the thing and the ballet slippers. Yeah. Yeah.
So they handed to me in this plastic in this
plastic bag with a button on it. You know, have
a little button on a plastic bag. I said, excuse me,
what you've got a brown bag? You got a brown
paper bag. No, that's the way they come. I understand that.
(09:47):
But yeah, they looked all around it got be a
brown paper bag and put it and I jumped in
a truck. I said, okay, let's go pop. What's in
a bag? Dad? It's something for school. I can just
see if I'm going, Jimmy, if you're running numbers right now,
you can be honest with me. That that a bag
of money. Jimmy, what are you doing? It was worse.
(10:10):
I'm again, No, what's the big? I showed him the big?
He never said another word. Alec He sat there and
whistled all the way home, just whistled. They just whistled.
He went for you know, you were there for how long?
Neighborhood playoffs? One year? And what happened? Because the speech
(10:34):
teacher asked me to get a late slip once I go,
excuse me, what a late slip? I'm paying eight? N't
it all? Let's go to the school. And she didn't
like my attitude and you left. Now they left, they
claiming me I was the only guy that kind of
kind of made that class. What was the first job
(10:54):
he got? I got an off roadway show roned author
Niecess Laurent, and I did it for about seven eight
months a week thirty eight fifty take home, brother, Are
you living at home? You got your know? I was
living in the taj Ma Hall, of course. I mean
(11:15):
I was eighteen and nineteen, and I worked two jobs.
I worked at Continental Can Company, and then I worked
at the Rockaway as a rife guard, you know. But
then I met this beautiful girl named dj who was
the lead dancer on the Mitch Miller show You're Even Too.
She lived out in Jersey. So I used to wait
(11:39):
get my dad's struck cleaning up the blood in the back.
You know, it was a big station where and remembered
them green dingle daggles you put all over the car,
smelled good pine them all over the cart at a
blanket at the back, and I'd go over there and
one day, me and a couple of my my Italian brothers.
They took me in the nineteen forty a week with
(12:00):
running boards and everything to North Carolina with her and
I borrowed ten dollars from my mother. They take me.
We drive to North Carolina, Halifax, North Carolina, which is
the closest place you go to without needing like a
blood test. So I go to Halifax. It's six in
the morning when we get there. We drove around looking
(12:21):
for justice a piece. Okay, wait a minute, he put
on his boat. What the into the living room, he says,
So what kind of a what kind of a ceremony
would you? Like? I said, fast, would be good. We
got married, my bodies, We got a watermelon. Did you
come from a generation that marrying a woman was always
(12:43):
the right thing to do before you lived with her?
It was it like a value, you know. I just
didn't want to ready to have a Yeah, yeah, yeah,
don't touch I mean fights like I mean, I was
arranging fan back then. So you go there, and I
mean I was totally belonged in a home because if
I catch some guy who just the game's over there?
(13:04):
What are you doing there? So what are you what
are you doing? What do you? Oh? It was terrible.
I was terrible, really, but it's my girl, you know.
So when we got married, I took her home because
nobody knew that was twenty one right. So my dad
would lay on the couch like this would a would
a wife, beer on, watching wrestling whatever. I come in
(13:30):
and my father never looked up. Well you've been um.
We went out where, you know, a few drinks. Would
you get married? My right hand to guard with that
I heed is laughter like you never heard in your life.
(13:50):
For my mother inside cracking up a laughs as she heard, Yes,
he parted the knowledge to get married. It's the funniest
thing I've ever heard. How do you? How do you
think you? Father? I don't know. The guy was weird.
He told me the first thing he told me. I
remember this poem he told me when I was twelve.
(14:10):
A good friend is hard to find. You always get
the other kind. But when you find one staunch and true,
make sure you fucked him before he fucked you. That's
the first ball. I What I want to say is
when you when you did Land and you're doing the
play for eight months in New York, did you like
(14:32):
the theater. Did you like live theater? When do you
see this? I want to get into TV in the movies.
I want to get into that. When do you make
the time? The only thing that was on television in
New York was the Naked City had just opened, you
know that started that was Naked City. Then then uh
such kind had Playhouse Third Team, and I did that
(14:56):
with Redfoot with obviously Ruby d and Dave was a
live three cameras show devon Asian at the time. Yeah, Jones, Scott,
that's how you got in the door yet an asient.
Somebody repped you. Yeah, and then I got the Route
sixty six came into Philadelphia. I got that. So but
the point I think I'm making is that I waited
(15:18):
for three or four years before I got our own audition.
Now this maybe or maybe not, but it may not be.
But I got the first four jobs auditioned for, and
I think it's because I waited, you know, like you
know acting that you know, or all actors should know,
there's so much luck invout and you can't bullshit. You
(15:38):
don't want to tell people the truth. Yeah, I see
young people and I'm like, is that you're studying you're
at a great program. That's great. But but I don't
want to break their heart and say it is a
lot of luck, a lot of luck. So I see
some people, I mean today, like you know, I teach now.
I'm teaching now, which is nice. I like to enjoy it.
But you see talented people you can't. You know, You've
(16:00):
got to be in the right place at the right time.
What's the first movie you made? Parallan called me and
I did a picture called Lady in a Cage, of course,
and Olivia to Havelin, who was like a nun I
don't know. I mean she was a beautiful, gorgeous, non
elegant woman, elegant, unbelievable for people who don't know. She's
(16:21):
trapped in the elevator in her house. And you were
the I'm playing, which I got nauseous when I showed
a perform It was a nauseous Who directed it, Walter Grauman?
But you nervous to be making your friend. I was nervous.
He didn't. He didn't. She got me nervous, not because
she was a huge star, but she was such a
(16:42):
lady and I had to go ya flack and dashing
your f and net and you did that? How do
you snuck in her face? That was like you talked
about character work. I couldn't do it. You know. It
was hard. It was really hard. Been there where I
played somebody who's tough and who's that? Uh, that's my brother. Yeah,
(17:06):
I placed somebody in a movie. You know, years ago,
I do a movie and if I had to be
really mean or abusive to somebody that I admired, I
do the movie Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross, and I wrote Lemon,
And I'm there with Jack Lemon, and I'm thinking, I
love this guy and I have to I have to
just completely wipe my shoes right on his face and
being so mean to him. I hated that the guys
(17:27):
were really but but but she was already like a thing,
like I remember going to watching her in a movie,
you know, like she was such a lady. Did you
move out here then? No? What happened was I did
everything that was to do in New York, So I did.
It was called black was written by Reginald Rose. This
playoffs thirteen or whatever they called it, uh and uh
(17:53):
Lamont Johnson directed it. But every Stollards in it. I mean,
I mean it was just cons of people in it,
you know, Pat Engle and Dish and that Ruby, d
Zzy Davis, Uh Redford and everybody. Yeah. So we did
that live and then after that I started getting calls
from out here studios. Yeah, I mean you have to
(18:17):
come out to do Dr Kildare or whatever the hell
it was. So, you know, I go out here and
I there's a cow town. What are you driving a
half hour for a paper? What are you sending me?
I try to get the red eye home, you know,
back into the subway, you know, just how to get
back there. And I did that for a while and
(18:39):
uh when we got oh, by the way and the
end of the marriage story, this can go on? Can
we do this for three hours? Maybe have to come
back and do parts two? But well, much as we
call it, I remember when you used to laugh ship,
I'm producing a very serious interview program, very serious about
your career, a more seriou smell your career than you are.
(19:01):
But very quickly she didn't want to come out of here. No. No.
What happened was, first of all, her parents that were
religious Catholics, okay, and I wasn't religious anything. You know,
my buddies were Catholic. I went to church, so you know.
(19:22):
But they she went home and they wouldn't let me
see her, right, they wouldn't let me see her. I
was married to her. They should listen. We want you
to get married in the church. I go, I can't
do that, I said, because I know I have to
sign a paper saying I raised my kids Catholic, and
I can't do that. I mean, I don't care, but
(19:43):
I had family that died and don some concentration camps
just for being a jail so I just can't do that.
I'm not a Catholic. Yeah, I'm not a Catholic. I
wouldn't mind being a Catholic. It makes no difference to me,
but it makes a difference to my family and everybody else.
I guess, you know. So no, no, you won't have
to because we know him. We'll meet you in directory
(20:05):
and we'll talk and you won't have to sign. Of course,
I said, okay, And of course everything I said was true.
So I went home and they kept in. Finally, one
night she was doing the Miss Miller's show and her
girlfriend called, this is so romantic. I just go, do
you want your wife? Twenty one years old you want
your wife, she's up here in the bronx. She's at
(20:25):
my house. So overtook the meat weg and the buddy wear,
just like laughing the thing on, you know, the thing.
And she was laying at his four post to bed
and but I got man, did work become more important?
I came out, you know, I came out. I said, honey,
(20:45):
I'm gonna go out, but you know I can't keep
flying back, and I'll go out. And I literally got
four jobs in five weeks out of here, you know,
leads on like the graphic suspension. And then I called
for and she came out, and then she did the
Judy Colland show. She wonderful answer, and then and then, uh, yeah,
I don't know, man, I just don't know. I was
(21:07):
too young, but it was probably too young to be
trying to make it happy. And the number really mixed
that up. You know, I really never did. My life
was my family that comes always. You didn't want the
business to become the most important thing in your life
because I've seen too much destruction already at a young age.
When did work change? And the next thing, you know,
(21:29):
you're above the title and you're the star of the
film that really happened quick, you know, Okay? My first
one was that then I did right one was with
John Wayne and Mitchell. Between those two waves, you know,
in what movie Mitchell, who I loved you? You would
(21:50):
have went? What was it like with Wayne? How did
Wayne treat you? Is it kind to you? This is
great Mitchell. He came back two three weeks later, sort
of first week and a half. It's just me and Wayne.
It's like what we meet and then we go on
this ride and he buys me had stupid gardener? Where
do you know there's had called me Mississippi? No mind
(22:10):
you you know I have our endless hours talking with Strasburg.
And John was a friend of mine, his son we
played bold together in the park and this, and so
I'm trying to draw in this and so whying to
be professional, and and then I listened, Now, look a kid,
why did you have to go and do that? This
(22:33):
is the dialogue of the movie. Why did you go
and do that? Luke wid you have to go and
do that? What do these breaths come from? But I'm
looking at him like, you know the reality of it,
of whatever bullshit? I just smiled. I just kept smiling. There.
You meet these people and you know that has this
effect on you. As I left this series I did
(22:54):
called Knots Landing that was a very popular show on TV.
My character was killed off the show. They were on
on Ava Gardner to play Bill Devane's mother, and I
was leaving and I think I was done shooting, and
they said, why don't you come back next week? Come
on the lot, and you know you still have your
pass and everything. Come and meet have a Gardener And
she's sitting there in a director's chair smoking a cigarette.
She looks like a million bucks. She's older, but she's
(23:16):
like and she said, it's so nice to meet you, baby.
She calls you a baby. That was so nice to
meet you, baby. What a pleasure. But then when you're
on a set and you're shooting and you're making a movie,
like the first big movie I did was Hunt for
Red October and Sean Connery comes walking on. I'll never
forget they did his makeup tests and his camera tests
and all the old school in the uniform and the hair,
(23:38):
and we're gonna shoot the first day and he walks
on and so help me got out with myself. I'm fucked.
I said, no one's ever gonna see me in this movie.
They're gonna cut me out of the movie. I said,
look at the guy. He looks like ten million dollars
stacked up, so he was so perfect looking. And they
would say cut and he dabt un to me. I
did say, are do you go into the Russia's boy
(24:02):
during lunch and I'd say, said the Russia is the
dailies of the of the footage And I said no,
I wasn't going to go to the rushes and nobody
invited me. He said, how do you ever expect to
learn anything if you don't go to the rushes? And
he was like, sham to me, and I'll go to
the dailies. We watched the dailies and I'll never forget
(24:24):
thinking to myself, this guy movie start him as something
you can't put your finger on it. He'd sit there,
he always knew where the camera was. He'd say the
line and turn into the shot. And I remember men
we sailed into history and he turned into the camera
and he was remember thinking to myself, I wonder if
(24:44):
I could ever learn all the things this guy knows
about the camera and how to perform in front of
the camera. It was beautiful. That's funny. You know. You
bring that up because I remember very clearly when we
did all little things together a couple of time, you
didn't impress me like that. I mean, that's not impressive
to me one way. I mean, that's me. But I
(25:05):
just want to finish the point that there's not a
stupid sy Uh watch the mic talking to the mic. Yeah.
So now Mitchell comes like a couple of weeks later.
I don't mean hybody went and sold the dailies and
I had that stupid hat on in order that that
and the first thing he said to me, Hey, Jimminy cricket,
he called me Jimmy. He's the greatest. Hey, Jiminy what
(25:29):
he says? You're doing a lot of smiling and Jimminy
cricket he said, I said, what do you want me
to do? You ever hear this guy talked? You know,
and Wayne, if you were affected by him, he would
never get off, would never get off. You know. He
was like a kid man. He just enjoyed it. We
come around this corner, the bad guys all the way
down the end of his Western street, ding the bar
(25:51):
a bad guys. Okay, hawks got the whole street set up,
stagecoach and people are walking up and down at night,
big set up. Wayne turns to me, says, nah, look
at kids when you say that their line. I want
you to turn around and give me that look you
give me. Smiling, he says, you know that looked at
(26:15):
you give me. He guess he caught me smile a little.
Whatever it was, Just turn around and give me that
look you give me. We come running around the corner,
he says, his eyes. I say my line. God, they
gotta wipe the horses down and everything, you know, to sweat.
Every takes another if I was set up here, we
get ready. Wayne turns to me. He says, nah, look
(26:36):
at it when you say that, Caroline, give me that
luck you give me. Okay, duck actual street stow spooming.
We come running around the corner, he says, his eyes.
I say my line. God, he let me out of
(26:56):
it anyway the third time now and I'm steaming. Sonny
side is coming out and me so he had the
balls to go. Now look at kid again, and I
turned around her and I read up and missed him.
Crabbed me from behind and went oh, we usually no,
(27:16):
And from that moment on we became the best friend,
miss him. I mean, Wayne, Wayne, you stood up for yourself.
He groved that. And then they invited me to drink
with them. I'm like twenty three, and there went a
bottle of scarship for him. And then he would fill
my uh dressing rooms with garbage when I wasn't there
and he had the guy locked it up, but I'd
(27:37):
come and opened my dressing Why is it locks would
come about? You know, you were twelve year old kid.
Your hawks direct him or nobody directed him? Yeah? I
mean did he stand up to him and tell him
what he wanted? He's never got to that. It was
never like it was never that. You know, they know
Wayne was Wayne. He did what he wanted to do. Yeah,
(27:58):
she miss him was the opposite. I met him. Didn't
never wanted you to see him working. He was like embarrassed,
but he was so good, so good. I guess the
next obvious question, when does Francis call you? How does
that called me? Now I knew Francis. He's like a
year older than me. Okay, so when he was twenty three,
(28:21):
he had written Patton already and he stayed with me.
His grandmother lived around the corner from where I lived.
You know, Sony said, you know on on Skillman Avenue.
I didn't know him and I didn't know her. He
also went to Hopster where I I didn't know him
me to. I remember him calling me to through the
rain people, which is really kind of interesting. Was the
(28:43):
first time any picture, you know, it was done like
that with a crew of eighteen. We traveled all across
the country. But I think it was like a second
picture thing. You know. He wanted me to do Apocalypse.
I didn't do it because here the Philippines for eighteen months.
That's exactly what he said. But it was match sixteen weeks.
Please stop, candimon ship play any part you want, any
(29:06):
American part you want. So I go up to sod
Trope and I said, I want to play Colonel Cornerge.
He just mowed the beach. It was a great role.
He said, Oh, I gave that to Gene Hackman. What
what did you ask me to pick any part for?
You know, why don't you tell me what part you
want me to play? Yeah, I I didn't do it
(29:26):
because Sheila Scott's mom was pregnant and I wasn't going
down to the Philippines. You know, No, No, you don't understand.
You will live in Manila and you've got like eight
servants and every morning will fly to the location. We'll
helicopter to the location. I go. Friends, that's like two
things I don't like. It was like height and set flies.
(29:48):
I don't like it. Okay, yeah, so I I didn't
do that with him, but the rain people I did,
and I did you know a few of them? And
Bobby and who asked you to do the Godfather? Him
or someone else calls you. I said, he wanted you
(30:10):
to play this part in this movie because there were stories.
I always here were you and Marlin and Duval and
al anybody? You had a lot of laughs on this side.
You weren't sitting there taking this like there was. There
was some super serious at that plays the big bard
in a successful movie, in any movie. I believe that
is what you can tell when people like one another.
(30:30):
I don't care what the genre is, I don't care
what the theme is. You can tell when people are
enjoying working with each other. And we all did, and
I think it eminates immediately off the screen. Now when
he and this is so you don't have to share this.
You have to say this, you know what I mean.
It's like I mean, I mean, I don't like to
talk about acting that much of myself, but like with you,
(30:52):
everybody is very Duval is very quiet, and Al is quiet,
and Marlin is quiet, and Gazelle is quiet, and your
character in terms of the symphonics of it, in terms
of the music, you're the real volatile one. You're the
more operatic one. You're the more intemper You're you're the
most You're you're the most tough. You're the most physically
(31:15):
tough brandons an old man in the film. But the
character is and you know, you put you put the
lead in the in the in the chamber. Were the
first scene we shot was in the Jento Olive Oil Company. Okay,
and you'll have to excuse my son. Yeah, no, two
great things happened. I didn't know who I was. That
was the first day. I'm trying to still figure it out.
(31:37):
And I don't go to all that bullshit every day.
You know, you gotta push a button and then the
button works. You gotta find a button. That's the hard thing.
I just really awkward that I just I don't know.
And one interesting thing, this is an a side. I've
watched Brando's He's great and and everybody tried to conquer Brando.
(31:57):
He just wanted to be talked to. That was the
simplest thing. Go ball, you just looked at me. He's
never a problem, never had a problem with Manson. And
this came up in that scene where he says, Salons,
they've told me you were romantic. Respect. I think as
far as I can't say that, you know, he's a
dope deal with you know, whatever his reasons, it's not right.
(32:19):
I've agreed to meet with you because they told me
your alemana will respect you know. So for instance, yeah,
I see what you mean, he says. But the problem
more and is I got I use it in another
scene that very line in the back of the car
with Bobby's in the car with somebody who uses that line,
So you gotta say it. So I'm sitting there like
(32:40):
a young student to watch you and uh, you know,
now most guys will find a place to bury it
in the propers Brando goes so great. I said that
I must see because to do a serious man respect
(33:03):
that one minute he made it so real for himself.
Like he said it, he didn't bury it. It was unbelievable.
It was unbelievable. The guy was great, But how deep
into the shooting because the sunny character, it's it's on
the page because you're banging the woman against the wall
at the wedding. No look, but as everything is behavior.
(33:28):
No disrespect to any writer ever you say their words,
but it's all about behavior. Actor movie star James Kahn.
Another brilliant performer associated with the type, albeit a different one,
is Carol Burnett. Through talent and force of will, she
overcame everything you'd expect from nineteen sixties TV XCS. And
(33:52):
he called me back the next day. He said, Carol,
you know it's not for gals. Comedy variety is a
man's in. They wanted me to do a sitcom and
I said, I don't want to be the same person
week after week. I wanted I want to do this.
My full interview with Carol Burnett is in our archive
at Here's the Thing dot org. This is Alec Baldwin
(34:31):
and you were listening to Here's the Thing when we left.
James Cohn. Coppola had given him the role of a
lifetime in the Godfather, Sonny Corleone, Brando's murderous oldest son.
Con struggled to land the character, but found that after
the first day on set, Vicious Sonny would be based
(34:53):
on screwball insult comic Don Rickles. I swear to guard out.
I was shaving and I was looking at and I
don't know why I thought of Rickles. I just thought
of you used to let me laugh. You know. I
know Riccles because when I was a young guy, I
hung around with all those old comedians. Riccles stuff was
like his proudest moment ever because I told him I
(35:16):
came in the next day. I could have done Hamlet,
I could have done anything as sunny, no matter what,
because I had that behavior. What are you gonna do
to me? What are you gonna do to me? Make blepa?
And I busted everybody's balls from morning till night, and
everybody laughing. Brando couldn't say hello to me without laughing.
(35:39):
Francis is gonna win the same fucking suit like for
nine months. You're sucking animal, do you hear? You will
need a few hours, you know. But the point is
they couldn't take it from me. But what I got
from what you did is this idea of to me,
the sunny character is like, we kill people for a living,
We do a lot of add things for a living.
(36:01):
We had a lot of blood on our hands. We
do bad things to some people to get money. And
what I would get from the Sunny of the movie
was I'm gonna have a good time. Yeah, we're going
to all these lengths to get this money. You know
what I'm I don't know about the rest of you,
is I'm I'm a fucking good time. But the drink
of a dinner, I'm gonna go bang. This brought out here.
(36:21):
I got my safe and and and and that was it,
and I and Francis let me go. I mean all
that stup being in a better that never was there.
It was all it all came out of. And then
weird stuff happened. I remember why I grew up like
all my best friend's Italian. So they maybe had two suits,
(36:44):
but they had twelve pair of shoes. So I said, hey,
to the water, can I have you gave me a
parent of kick? Because you know the black and white,
it's not in the script, so what No, we don't
have the budget. The budget. It was like nothing. One
of the Bronx for ten dollars about the black and
white shoes. You remember the black and white shoes, because
(37:05):
that was tell me. Then I took a broom handle off,
you know the industrial brooms, you remember the big industrial brooms.
I showed them back it out of it and put
it in my car. What are you putting in your
call for? I don't know. It's an attitude of just that.
That's what did you guys carry around on the car?
How do you know? I know? So so all of
(37:25):
that stuff. And then when I broke the guy's camera,
you know, when I'm when I'm coming, when I'm coming,
and take I'm taking the license plate out before do
not Richard CONTI but but but Clemenza, no, you broke
the camera in the in the in the park, I'm
going on taking a spin on the guy's thaying. And
(37:45):
I walked back not not to be filmed. I mean,
so we're supposed to walk in and there's guy took
a picture of me, right. I took this, but it
was expressed it wasn't whatever relics a real one, and
I smashed it, but I improvised. And then Clement. Yeah.
(38:07):
I mean always just let me go. You never stop.
And Clementzer grabbed me and grabbed me. You know it
just come on sunny and I remember my neighborhood. It
was okay, like I broke it. But if anybody did
something like that, they're reaching it pop and I put
twenty on the floor. But think we think about it again.
(38:28):
There there has to be he and this doesn't really
amount to it. But but I was saying what I
worship about you in films, what I loved about you
in films, was there had to be a guy that
that did those things, because Al doesn't do that. Al
shoots the guy very reluctantly, and then he should sterling
take from all lives, don't we. I mean, you've got
(38:48):
to take from your life. I mean, you can't make
that up. But you watch that movie I've seen. But
when you watch that movie, the audience, even though violence
is out of favor, even though people doing those things
is out of favor, you watch that movie realize you've
got to have that moment where the guy goes, you
touched my sister again? No, this, what was this? I
kill you? I remembered it. I didn't think of it.
(39:11):
You remember when you were a kid, My dad did that.
My dad. It wasn't ever thought about anything the night before,
I just went in, bum, push the button, let's play
around and and and you know it was God bless Francis.
(39:33):
But uh yeah, I mean it was. It was really
you know, Francis never sort of fight either until we
shot it. Me and and the stunt man did it.
Carlo's double, you know, not him. Okay, be nice, I
(39:57):
am nice. You're a good kid. Okay. A brief explanation
is called for. Here. Kahn has a famous fight with
Giohnny Russo, the actor who played his brother in law Carlo.
In a minute, you'll hear more about their on screen violence.
To con it was just embodying his character fully. Russo,
on the other hand, even two years ago, was calling
(40:19):
Cohn nuts. He says. The on screen fights left him
with a chipped elbow and two broken ribs. Now back
to the show, So anyway, yeah, France has never saw
anybody fight before. He didn't know how to stage that, right, right.
And then the other thing was I come out of
(40:41):
a car and Collos loots want and you know, up
the street, come in, come, come, come, here or whatever.
I said, come in, coup and come out about ninety times.
So I reached in and I took out my attitude
and Judge didn't plan it, Alec, I swear my mother didn't. Planet.
I took out this and was running and I fired
(41:01):
it at him. Francances it's great, great, But Jimmy, you
look like you want to You missed him by a mile,
showed at him. I hit him, but go ahead. But
I hit him in the coconut on the way up
the sun double not okay, I would have missed it
was stuck the kidding. But but but people want to know.
(41:23):
I mean, you are one of the stars of one
of the greatest films ever made in history. And when
and when you first saw the movie, when you first
saw you sit there and go, how this is a
pretty good movie. No, I was mad. I wouldn't go
to the show. Why you see, Bobby went nuts Evans.
I was staying in my room. I was so piste
off because I had an eight page sheet with Bobby
(41:44):
and they cut it out. You know what's selfish? I said,
what the fuck? You know? They had to come down
begged me to come upstairs to the party. But the
first time you saw the movie. Whenever, the first time
when you saw the movie, what did you think they
shouldn't have cut out that you miserable? Crick? No, no, no, no, no, no,
(42:11):
you know you know, I'm gonna tell you something. Francis.
It ruined his career because he wanted he wanted what
the Allen career. That was his whole thing. He wanted
to write and do his own thing. But this monster
killed his career. You know, we started doing stuff he
didn't want to do. But it's no accident that every
(42:37):
department head that he chose became the biggest in their field.
Walter Merch, I mean, Dean, probably, Gordy will it, you
just name them, Jack Smith, gonna make up. He had
ingenious stuff, like you put a bullet a pace, you
can see a bullet go in your face, I mean everything,
(42:57):
But it was all Francis. And the number one thing
that made that picture successful was the fact that Francis
was a Mediterranean Italian. He was not a Brooklyn Italian.
Everything was okay for the sake of family. Everything. So
when people would ask me, the biggest question asked was
that a real horse's head. Wait a minute, any one.
People got killed, but you don't kill about any Was
(43:20):
that a real horses? Said? Oh yeah, sure that was
a real horses said, I mean it was. Francis was unbelievable.
Francis was unbelievable. And he went to acting school. And
now I've started realizing that, you know, I was out
of north Ridge and looking at their curriculum and think
(43:44):
the guys who were learning to be acted as as
freshman directors as freshman, and then part of their things,
they take two of their people who were also trying
to be and they do scenes with them, and that's
like a mid term or what the who? What's the
sense they're not working with actors, so how do they know?
So in my mind, it's a requirement if you were
(44:06):
a writer, if you were a director or an actor,
you must start with one year of acting trying to
figure actors think you can direct, so you can direct
pull out of them what you need to pull out
of them, you know. And that's the big problem with
like a lot of the movies today. I mean, you know,
I I used to wake a pot a lot of
(44:26):
these guys where I go to the you know, launch
or whatever, you know, as it a studio said, I
got a great it's a little out of the box.
But how about this we do pictures. They got a beginning,
a middle, and an end. Is that cool? What am
I out of a box? Or what? Now? You always?
I mean, in the time we have left, I gotta
go pick up my kids. In the time we have
left in New York, take them to the park every day.
(44:50):
My I swear to God, I pick them up at
five o'clock. The uh. But for a guy that you know,
you've been married a few times, you're you know, you
like women. Did you ever? And you have to you
don't have to answer this question. You have to have
the details. But did you ever? Were you ever working
with these leading ladies? If you're something like, excuse the
ex never go to the bathroom right where you dyed,
(45:15):
you where you're dying. Yes, and you wouldn't true, and
you wouldn't do that. Once, when I was very very young,
you dated an actress. I didn't dat. I went to
you got close with her. I said, would you mind?
She said, certainly not. But you made it a habit
not to do that. I don't think it became habit.
(45:39):
It's just something that I respected. But it's just like
what I mean, I'm not fair to the direct I'm
not fair to to write it. I'm not fair to anybody.
If God forbid, which usually happens, you have a fight
with your girlfriend and you gotta bring in a set
and you've gotta make a love scene. Do a love scene. Um,
your son? You just changed the subject on me. Yes,
(46:01):
when when when Scott gave me a hint? Them? When stop?
When Scott made it clear to you that he wanted
to be an actor, were you encouraging of him? I'm
assuming I never discouraged. You know, he's the best guy.
You never wanted me. He's just a gentleman. He's great,
and he never knew what I did until I was
eight nine years old. I wouldn't, you know, until the
(46:23):
kids on a bus one they said that's your dad,
you know, like it was like that, Yeah, why you know,
he thought I was a coach. He got it like
when he was sixteen. They said they wanted to use
him in some films, so I thought it was kind
of like throw away, you know some and they should
Jimmy what you do? Just want to seeing him? Yeah?
Why not? You know, I never thought the picture would
(46:43):
even escape. Then um, he went. I got him into
Crossroads because they decided they try to make a normal
school out of him, not like an English boys school,
because he was like a C student. But he's a
great athlete, great athlete. So uh he got in a
fight which he into and then they threw him out,
and then he went to Devily hiels. I said, you
(47:04):
can only go to Beverly Hills Hide if you play
baseball again. So he paid baseball. In the middle of
the ear he said, I just signed a contract with
Tommy Boy. What who's Tommy Boy? He went on the
road with Cyprus Hill House of Pain and he had
to little half choose. They called themselves the Lower Level.
It was the greatest thing ever. And he went rapping
(47:25):
all around the country, aid to the motherfucking ca homeboy,
and your Mercedes, who are you kidding? What are you
talking to? So? I mean it was great. So he
just and he's unbelievably right. He he's had four plays
published with the Alec published. But as far as acting,
the material isn't as good my son yours. So if
(47:47):
he becomes an actor, Scott, it's never gonna have the
opportunity that you and I had worked with the best
directors and work with the best screenwriters and the best
this and the best at and you know they're not
going to have that opportunity. We work with great people
out It was as good as there ever was. James
con one of the last of the great old school
(48:09):
movie stars. This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to
Here's the thing you have to understand. I do this
show and I meet these people, I get choked up
and I get choked them
Host
Alec Baldwin
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