HIGHKEY! Weddings Are a Lot: Race, Riches, and Cotton Eye Joe

What happens when weddings don’t feel like they’re for you? This week on HIGHKEY! Ben, Ryan, and Yvie get real about the complicated relationship queer folks can have with weddings—from family estrangement and cultural expectations to chosen family and fantasy ceremony dreams. They share personal stories of being the only Black or queer person in the room, the cost of proving legitimacy through marriage, and whether they even want to be married at all. Plus: Lizzo’s rap era, Drag Kings finally getting their shine, and a very nerdy love letter to James Baldwin. 

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HIGHKEY! is a production of iHeartPodcasts, as part of the Outspoken network. The show is created and executive produced by Ben O’Keefe, Ryan Mitchell, Yvie Oddly, and Spoke Media.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I want my queer friends to be able to celebrate
the love that they understand me and my partner have
in the way that we actually do, which means somebody's
probably going to do a line off of someone's dick
and I don't care if it's my grandma.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Oh wow, we are going to very, very, very different weddings.
I will say that, thank you. What's up, everybody, Welcome
to high Key. I'm benno Key, I'm Ryan Mitchell, and
I'm EVI. Oddly, today we are diving into weddings, the

(00:35):
ones we've attended, the complicated feelings they bring up, and
whether we want to be married at all.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
But first let's get into the high key key. Wait oh,
because you were saying that we live in the future
right now, and I was thinking, like, back to one
of my favorite Disney Channel original films like Smart House.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Do y'all remember that? Of course? I love that one.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
Van Cooper is wont to computer your smart house for
his family. Wait you go, Cooper, complete with video wall projections,
a state of the art control room, floor absorbers, and
maternal instincts.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
And LeVar Burton directed it.

Speaker 4 (01:11):
Wait like reading Rainbow Rainbow, LeVar Burton directed that film.
I was shook. I was like two days years old
when I found that out.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
That's why I was so good.

Speaker 4 (01:24):
Like it's shocking because I have such like big memories
of that of that movie, especially just being like, oh
my god, like one, could you imagine your house just
like giving you everything you want and then like partying
like uh, hey.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
You away.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
That's why that movie had so much flavor though it
had the only really dope asque character from Star Trek
in that generation on it being like beatboop, I'm programming
this house.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
You know. She did some kinky shit too well, of course,
and like you know levarv, Oh my god, you had
to go there. Yeah, they actually had a.

Speaker 4 (02:17):
Care I mean maybe, well she did follow. Wasn't she
basically falling in love with a husband?

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah? She was becoming the mom? Is this the house
fired her? The movie her? What is her? What do
you mean why you haven't seen her? What is her?
Is that? The Johansson turns into a computer machine. No,
it's the movie? Where is it? Is it? Joaquin Phoenix? Yeah? Yeah?

(02:45):
With an Ai Yeah, I don't know. It turns into
a story you don't falk with walking Phoenix walking, don't
fuck with me. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (02:56):
I have no clue who he is actually, I mean
he's joker, right and actively like play that it's like
a big deal.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
I honestly don't really know. I just know my all
the women in my family were like so wet for
him in the two thousands.

Speaker 4 (03:13):
I don't even think I can see that because I'm
but like not really not enough for that.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
But you got white woman in your family, so maybe
that's it. Okay. So like technology, I do talk to
my house like my Alexa will turn off my lights,
turn off my TV, like, because I love smart home
so much. Growing up I was scared of the home
like trapping me and things like that. So I don't
have like smart locks or anything. But I like a
smart house. But I don't like AI. I actually I

(03:44):
kind of here's the thing.

Speaker 4 (03:45):
I understand what the issues are with AI, and like
people kind of really there's gonna I mean, like anything,
there needs to be a balance that needs to be
striked with AI, right, because it's not It should never
be your therapist. It should never be like actually like
doing everything for you. But I do think there if

(04:06):
you use it as a tool that can like really
be helpful and you use it for exactly like what
you need.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
In some ways, I feel like it could be great.
I don't know. I enjoy it for what I use.
It's a slippery slope. I'll say that, like AI is
a slippery slope. And here's what I'm annoyed at. No
one has original thought anymore. I don't want an email
from chat GPT. I want your thoughts. I'd rather be
poor grammar and shitty and all the things, but me
get a little bit of your thoughts then, like just

(04:31):
like only get people are using it on hinge. People
are using it like dating, are going into chat GP
no semi text message to respond to this text. But
people are doing this. And then people are using it
for therapy as well. I just saw a meme that
was like, oh, chat GPT is the best therapist because

(04:52):
they remembers everything.

Speaker 4 (04:54):
And I'm like, no, so we should all know how
to use it, and if we down't, then we're gonna
be like left behind.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
Really, we're gonna be left behind regardless because AI is
going to eradicate all work. Well, yeah, I want to
lose all laborers. This is the short sightedness of capitalism
where it's like you eradicate all of the people, all
the jobs that people do that make billionaires billionaires. If
you don't have people doing these smaller jobs, then like

(05:23):
they're not gonna have money to pay for things.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
I honestly am I'm not worried about any of that though,
like any of the AI future, because legit. Okay, So
here's the thing is, if we created essentially like another
human brain, the next god, like the the the next
thinking creation of its own, girl, it is already too
late for us. Like do you remember two years ago

(05:47):
when you were like, AI, make me look like I'm
from the eighties or whatever, and it gave you like
twenty fingers like it, only it only took two years
to be able to make like crazy deeps that are
kind of thinking for itself.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
Girl.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
The AI, we are already in terminator. Okay, I'm just
searching for John Connor.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
Now, you just you just don't care because drag queens
are never gonna be replaced by AI.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
We already are we already are Yeah.

Speaker 4 (06:15):
I mean there's there's so many things that are like
already being replaced. There's specifically on TikTok, I am kind
of obsessed with like the Real House Babies of Atlanta
that is like AI generated and it's like scenes that
basically they babyfied and like they're babies. I also love
this account Kim the Gorilla and her feud with Becky
the zoo keeper.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Kim the Gorilla here spoiler alert, I live in a zoo.
Let me give you the tour. Here's my chill corner.

Speaker 4 (06:40):
I just wanted a space to, like, you know, to
get away from all the drama that's Becky.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
I hate her.

Speaker 4 (06:45):
There are some really good usages for AI in an
entertainment moment, but it does get scary when I start
to see like the appropriation of like black women eating
bangs and like the like racial pandemics. It's all very
it can it's very very weird. All I need it
for is to help me refine my damn email so
I don't sound like a complete idiot.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
But you take out all them damn M dashes. I
love an M dash, and now I feel like I
can't use an m dash because it automatically shows that
you're using AI remove the spaces from between the mdash
ap style period. But like I think, what's scary.

Speaker 4 (07:24):
About detail oriented with your at GPTMB style.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
Well, okay, honestly, I'm thankful for AI because I started
using M dashes again. I was like, no, mar run
on sentince, so you didn't AI started using it because
it's not your brain. And this is where it gets
so scary, is that, like we're creating the replacements of ourselves,
and so like in our contract with iHeart, there is
a provision that says that they can voice clone us,

(07:51):
meaning like, oh, we don't need you anymore to cut ads.
We can use your your voices. We couldn't get that
out like they literally own our voices. Do you understand?
And like that's what's so scary, is like I should
quit the show right now. It wouldn't matter. It wouldn't
matter alone. We'd like I'd quit, and then next week
you say we're here. You show look better and sound

(08:15):
better than it does with us. Honestly, it's a voice
I would listen to. I don't know, I get.

Speaker 4 (08:22):
I do understand the real worries about AI, and it
is something that we should all be like thinking about
and when it especially when it comes to policy and regulating,
and it just feels like the wild, wild West, just
like cryptocurrency, except for where it actually feels like AI
is like tangible and can actually like help you in
real ways. But yeah, it's I just don't want to

(08:45):
end up like Wally, even though that's one of my favorites.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
That's literally what I want, though, what are you talking about?

Speaker 4 (08:50):
Literally, I promise you why he was like a post
apocalyptic everyone is like sitting in chairs because they've let
AI do everything for it and one of and one
of the best children's movies of all time. But I
promise you, like at least once a month, like usually
on my bad days when like my body is fucked
up and sore and I still have some regular human

(09:12):
stuff to do, like, oh.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
Go to the bank. I'm like, I just wish we
were Wally people.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
I just want to Really, the people that will get
us to Wally are the same people who want to
see disabled people like you killed, and so like, that's
the thing is that there's no nuance here. It's like
because evil is evil and this is all rooted in capitalism,
and so the people who are going to be most
affected are the most marginalized. And until then, you know,

(09:41):
just please write your own emails seriously, Okay, is there
nothing AI has done that actually has been helpful for you? Absolutely? There,
absolutely is. There absolutely is. But what I'm worried about,
specifically is generative AI as a tool to eradicate independent

(10:02):
thought while stealing the thoughts of the people who had
it in the first place. So when if you put
in an essay you wrote and say, hey, help me
correct the grammar in this, you have just trained this
AI how to write in your voice, and so it
might write in your voice and you make for the
next person. It makes your life easier until it doesn't,

(10:24):
until you're no longer needed, and until you know you're
you're dead like this literally, like how it works when
people can't feed themselves and then you don't have Medicaid
and you don't have social services anymore, people are gonna die.
So like it's cute and fun Tuesday, I mean, well, okay, hey,
it's fake when first of all, it's fake Friday, Fake

(10:48):
Friday here, Friday here, suspend the disbelief please. I'm like,
I'm spirally into despair.

Speaker 4 (10:57):
I'm actually speaking of I've been watching Sandman and I
just love despair.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
I love to seeing the characters.

Speaker 4 (11:05):
And I always think of Like I was thinking about,
like which character would we be if we were on there?

Speaker 2 (11:10):
Like would we be desire? Would we be death or
despair or delirium?

Speaker 1 (11:15):
And you know anyway that's okay, okay, yeah, wait, well
that's almost one of them.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
Which which D do you feel like?

Speaker 4 (11:22):
Ryan?

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Which D? Because I feel like, oh I feel like
I went to.

Speaker 4 (11:27):
Be I would be exhaustion. I would be exhaustion, just
sprinkling exhaustion in everyone's life. Girl, That's why these glasses
are on you. You got into my eyes this morning.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
Oh my goodness, did y'all get to see that video
that World of Wonder that drag Race posted that had
like fake jeans jinx Monsoon and like fake Susie too.
I don't even remember who the other fake drag queen was. Yeah,
so they like posted a whole little skit between these
two AI versions of queens that they totally could have hired, and.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
The people got pissed.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
The people like don't want to see it, so it's
like coming for our jobs too.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
But way it was.

Speaker 4 (12:16):
Voiced by the queens or was it like it was
just like they just put an animated voice on it.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
Well, I mean I think those queens had to approve
of their likeliness being used that way, unless World of
Wonder just still owns it in some way. I mean,
but what what's scary about that? I mean, I will
say though, that drag is live entertainment, and I've been
saying for a long time I'm a live entertainment producer.
Like that is a space where it's like, what I
love about it is you cannot put a computer up

(12:44):
on stage. It's about that intimacy. It's about what happens
every night. And so this is when we get into
the conversations we have all the time around like what
is drag? And it's like there's the RuPaul's drag, race
TV drag, but like real drag, real nightlife, that real
scene feels AI proof. It feels like no one can
take that from us. I mean, I say that until

(13:04):
the bartenders are robots. Have y'all taken waymos? No?

Speaker 4 (13:09):
No?

Speaker 2 (13:10):
Wait. I rove next to one in LA and I
was freaked out with photo shoot. I was like, what
the hell is going on?

Speaker 4 (13:16):
I love waimos, I don't love the fact that they're gonna,
you know, take jobs for sure.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
I do not like that.

Speaker 4 (13:23):
However, I do like the experience, I think because I
am someone that has always grown up being like a
lover of like futurism and like being like, oh my god,
the possibility I mean back to the future, to like xenon,
to like you know, like smart houses. We're talking and
I'm like, I've always been fascinated by and so the
fact that I'm like living in a time where there's

(13:43):
literally a car driving itself and experiencing that it is
a little heavy footed, it'd be turning in corners a
little while, but it's actually it's just a really cool
experience until you get into like the thought process of
it and being like, oh wow, if this actually becomes
a thing, what does that mean as a larger picture,

(14:05):
and it's like we'll both be able to exist.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
Who knows well.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
Honestly, Honestly, I've been talking with my husband a lot
about it, and we both are like leaning towards this
idea that you know, AI is coming for our jobs.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
It's coming for everyone's jobs.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
So you know, obviously the people who have the power
are going to try and manipulate the system the most
to make sure that those beneath, those with less are
getting the shit end of the stick. However, since it's
coming for everything, there's this kind of there's this feeling
I have that it's going to force us to change

(14:42):
culturally how we feel about work.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
You know, yeah, universal basic income and socialism. But that's
what that's what This could be the harbinger of socialism
because if you eradicate all low level jobs, you automate
factory jobs, you can't even fucking drive a car anymore
for a living, Then it's like you can't work, and
that's why you need medicaid. That's why you need universal
basic income. When we had a brief universal basic income

(15:07):
in this country during COVID, it pulled hundreds of thousands
of children out of poverty. These are all great things
if that's where that brings us, but I worry that
it just brings us to well, let those people die,
because that's how it feels like our society is changing,
where it's like, oh, you should have gotten a better job,
but it's like, what is a better job. These engineers

(15:29):
who are making five hundred thousand dollars a year doing
software and bullshit, they're not going to have jobs anymore,
and that's interesting.

Speaker 4 (15:35):
So It's so funny we're talking about this because literally
I woke up this morning and the first thing I
always do is naturally, is grab my phone and start
scrolling and immediately saw as soon as I open the
fucking app. Bill Gates says, only three jobs will survive
the AI takeover. Coder, energy experts, and biologists.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Coder. I'm not doing any I'm not doing any of that.

Speaker 4 (15:57):
Oh my god. Like so I don't know what I mean.
One that's it's gonna take years. Like by the time
it's a real thing, I'm gonna be what like eighty five,
I don't know, know, Like, no.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
You're gonna you're gonna be forty girl.

Speaker 4 (16:09):
And be like, how how how do you jump into
learning how to be a coder? The only coding I
knew was MySpace and that was like as far as
my experience goes.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
And AI does that too. You can google like code
make AI. No, you can say, make me an app
that has four panels and one of them says this,
and one of them says that, and it does like
you can and it will just build it for you.
It's wild. It is wild.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
But that's why I mean, obviously, Bill Gates knows his ship, but.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Oh, don't be nice to billionaires. I was like, dosy,
I'm not.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
No, Well, I mean he knows he probably, I am
assuming is more involved with the development and staying up
to date with every little fine tune thing about what
the future of AI hold. So I trust that he
has some vision about like what jobs he sees surviving.
But everything else I've heard is more like, girl, you
better learn to be a plumber. You want to learn

(17:04):
to be a carpenter, Like it's all those practical skills.
It's yeah that like people really have absolutely no idea
how to do now. It's like when we were kids
and our parents were like bitching about people not knowing
how to like drive stick anymore.

Speaker 4 (17:20):
Like, yeah, I think my biggest word was going to
be like having to learn how to ride a bike
because I don't know how to do that. It's actually, well,
maybe I should learn how to, like, I don't know,
change a tire, like bringing back real men.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, bringing back bringing back real men.

Speaker 4 (17:37):
Okay, yeah, so enough of that. It's time for a
quick break. Now when we come back, what do we
get into Ben.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
We are talking weddings, and this may or may not
be because I am recovering from like a three day wedding.
But I think we all have some hot takes on weddings.
Do we even want to be married ourselves? For some
of us, it's too late, Evie, So there's a lot
to discuss. All.

Speaker 4 (18:00):
Well, we'll be right back, and y'all better not get kofeed.
Welcome back to high Key.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
Now.

Speaker 4 (18:07):
Okay, today we are talking all about weddings. Do you
hear that those unnecessary wedding veils?

Speaker 2 (18:15):
Like? Who the fuck is that? Apparently it is peak
wedding season.

Speaker 4 (18:18):
And Ben, you brought this up in our editorial meeting
because I guess you have been bombarded by a shit
ton of weddings this year.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
I'm I'm in wedding mode. And this weekend I was
at a wedding in Connecticut for my partner's cousin and
it was great. I love my partner's family. I mean,
we've been together for nine years, so they're like my family.
But I was thinking about something specifically that happened at
the wedding that is kind of like a deeper reason
why weddings are not are always a little awkward for me,
depending on what kind of wedding they are. So basically,

(18:49):
I was like out in the hallway and someone came
up to me and it's like, you work here, right,
And I said, no, I don't. I don't work here
wearing this gorgeous suit, Like do I look like I
work here? Like no, I was like no. And so
then they go, oh, so, how do you note the
bride and groom?

Speaker 5 (19:09):
Oh no, and you're like well, and I think I
was like, well, first of all, the bride's my family,
so yeah, think about that, try to google that.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
But I was like, oh, I know what it is.
You're like, what you're assually asking is like, what are
you doing here? Brown person? Because I find that weddings
tend to be like events that are kind of segregated
or you kind of really and part of it's because
it's family, and it's like if it's two white people
getting married, there's gonna be a lot of white family.
And then sometimes I'm like, wow, am I the only
black person?

Speaker 1 (19:38):
You know?

Speaker 2 (19:38):
Like there's like these extremes at these situations. But that
comment got me and it just made me think, like wow,
I think this is why I don't like to go
to weddings, because maybe I don't belong there. Oh oh,
I feel it so hard.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
I mean, like all the earliest weddings I went to
were actually like black black weddings. It was like the
opposite experience where it was like all black people and
then like some white woman named Kathy who was dating.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
Like one of the real brothers there or whatever.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
But like in my experience after that as an adult,
everything else I've been to is just the most white
experience ever. And I love, I love all of the
people whose weddings I've attended, but this is like my
PSA right now, do not invite me to your wedding.
If your grandma's gonna be there, I don't want to

(20:32):
see her. Tell that bitch, I don't fuck with her
unless she's like ready to take her top off and
get wild on the dance floor.

Speaker 4 (20:39):
But so wait, didn't weren't you just at a fairy
wedding like that screams like white?

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Okay, But that's the thing is, it's like, to Ben's point,
it's I don't even think it's just about whiteness, although
there is something extremely white about a bunch of people
getting together for hours all day long and like clinking their.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
People well, how many people of color were at that
fairy wedding?

Speaker 1 (21:04):
I want to say, like ten out of ten out
of fifty or whatever.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
You know. Oh, okay, yeah, I could see it. But
the thing is fairy wedding. Honestly, it's pretty damn good.
It's not that. But what sucked about it is I
was the only fairy.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
Like they sent out this whole invitation that like got
my hopes up. They were like, yeah, it's fairy themed,
it's gonna be in this magical place.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
I showed up and these bitches.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
Are still in like suits and dresses, and it reminded
me how much at least I feel like as queer people,
we don't even belong at weddings, not even our own.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
True. It's so interesting.

Speaker 4 (21:39):
I when you wanted to talk about weddings, I really
wasn't sure.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
I was kind of like a low, low key little.

Speaker 4 (21:45):
Trigger because I was like, I've only ever been to
two weddings in my entire life, and they were like church.
Family friends are like church people that we were there for.
And then fast forward to me living out here in
LA and I went to a coworker's wedding in San Diego.
Those are the only two weddings I've literally ever been to.

(22:06):
My mom hasn't ever been married. No one really in
my immediate family has ever been married, and so I've
never really experienced like weddings and so like that wedding
culture isn't really a thing for me. And to be honest,
like I guess I never really I never really thought
about myself as like the type to like be married.

(22:27):
I feel like I've always if someone's asks me that,
I'm always probably like, especially if like I'm dating someone,
I'm like, oh, you know, like for sure, like yeah,
But I've always really do down have kind of been like, well,
what's the point of like a marriage?

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Is it just because of tax benefits?

Speaker 4 (22:44):
Or is it like, is it because, like you really
want to live with the person? I also feel very
whoopy goberg to the shit, like I actually don't even
really want to live with my partner ever. Like I know,
I think I know a little bit more about myself
versus when I felt like when I used to talk
about weddings in the past, it used to be of course,
I want a wedding. I'm saying all the things that

(23:07):
I thought we were supposed to say. When it came
to that. But if I'm being honest, I've never had
any real examples of what I guess what that would
look like or what that even feels like. If I'm
being quite honest, I haven't met anyone I wanted to
marry yet.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
I mean, I'm shocked because you seem to me like
like such like a deep romantic that you would already
have your dream wedding planned out.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
You know, you wouldn't model it after.

Speaker 4 (23:33):
I mean, I do know, I know like things about
like what I would want to have. I don't know
what my wedding would look like, but I'm like, oh,
for sure, I know that I would probably like want
to like a little where the guest book is where
you sign in or whatever. There's also like a little
jar of pre rows that everyone takes for the party.
Like I'm like, I know, like, I know, I kind

(23:54):
of want that situation, But I genuinely, if I'm being honest,
I haven't. As an adult, I think when you start
to be single for a while, you start to kind
of get into the headplace of like are you comfortable
with one day just like being.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
By yourself the entirety of the rest of your time,
and so.

Speaker 4 (24:14):
Like if weddings, wedding, partners, marriage, all the things. It's like,
I don't know, I don't really know where that fits
in my life currently.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
But but I guess right, Like, yes, you're not dating
anyone in a serious way, so like it's not on
the immediate horizon. But do you feel like that is
what's painting your picture of weddings, like the being singleness
or like if you are in a long term I've
been in a relationship for nine years, I'm not married.
Would you have been married at this point? Well? Why,

(24:47):
I mean, you're basically married.

Speaker 4 (24:48):
Why why why why would you get married now that
you've been with your partner for nine years?

Speaker 2 (24:53):
And why why haven't you got Yeah, like why haven't
any question that asks? So we got our domestic partners
so that we could be on each other's health insurance, right,
Like that was a big part of it. But it's
tough because marriage costs money, right, a lot of money.
A modern wedding today costs one hundred thousand dollars in

(25:14):
New York City. It's a huge amount of money. I
don't come from family money, and when I think about
the other things that I want to do. I want
to have a kid, a domestic adoption forty to fifty
thousand dollars. I want to own a home. So I'm
just like, why my thing about weddings is why throw
a huge party for everybody else for one day and
give up things that could change my entire life. That's

(25:36):
hard for me to wrap my brain around when it
will not change a single thing about my relationship besides
my tax status because I am queer like heteronormative institutions.
That's what's so weird, is like we fought so hard
for marriage equality and has like I actually don't really care,
Like I don't care what we now. I'm like thinking back,

(25:57):
and I'm like, I don't know if that was even
the fight. Actually, you know that was the fight when
you had sis white gay men. That was their fight.
I don't know if that was my fight. I don't
know what that did that really helped me. It's funny
you say that, because I think I think we.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
Needed that fight to be able to advance ourselves into
a place where we're closer to being protected as just
regular humans in society. That's like why cis white gays
still don't experience the same kind of life pushback internet
times as trans people is like they got into acceptance

(26:36):
by being.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Like, look, we can do things like you. Now they're
hyper masculine. Now they're buffing up. And then also a
whole bunch of straight CIS men are becoming a lot
gayer because they're all in cells and looking at the
world through the gaze of men and all like, straight
men are getting so gay right now and that would
have been a dream come true years ago. And now
I'm scared because straight men scare me.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
Oh well, you're not wrong there, just don't marry any
of them.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
I'm listening to you both.

Speaker 4 (27:04):
And the question that, well, what you said Evie about
like you thought that I would be the person that
would like have my wedding and everything planned. I do
feel like you can still there's a way you can
still exist as like a romantic but not want to
get married like I'm that's I think that's the reason
why you we watch shows like that are all about
love and all the things like it's because you enjoy

(27:26):
the the idea of romance. But it doesn't necessarily need
to like be this like goes back to traditionalism.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
It doesn't need to follow those rules in some ways.

Speaker 4 (27:35):
And so like I don't know, maybe I get worried
around the expectations of of.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
What weddings mean.

Speaker 4 (27:46):
Like once you have that like legitimate partnership, like what
does that mean?

Speaker 2 (27:50):
Now? Like does that mean I owe you everything? Does that? Like?
How do we?

Speaker 1 (27:54):
How?

Speaker 3 (27:54):
What?

Speaker 4 (27:54):
How do the dynamics change? I have so many like
thoughts around this where I'm like, I don't know it
just it just feels like why do I need that title?
If like I can just say you're my partner, we
can just exist with each other and then maybe for
tax benefits, then do the big one.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
But it's not like rooted in we need. I really
did it like halfway for the health benefits.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
Yeah, But I also got married because it helps me
communicate with other people in my life. Like there were
two things that really pushed me to try and get
married outside of health insurance, and that was when speaking
to my grandmother. She whenever, like it would, the subject

(28:35):
of my boyfriend then was brought up, She'd be.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
Like, oh, are you still with that guy?

Speaker 1 (28:41):
Like you know there's in straight people world, your relationship
isn't serious until legitimacy. Yeah, like either you have kids
or you get married. So it was like to be
able to have that understanding between me and everybody else
and straight people world like, oh, no, I know, I'm

(29:03):
just a silly faggot, but I put a ring on
this cock.

Speaker 4 (29:07):
You know. Are they actually like, do they call him
your your has been like, what's the language that they
use for him?

Speaker 1 (29:15):
I mean they just call him, they just call him Doug.
Now they keep it. Yeah, but even then, like the
idea of being able to place him in our family solidly,
I think was really helped by the fact that we
did something in their language. And so that's also why
I don't feel like I want a wedding. I don't

(29:35):
think I need a wedding. Like, we already did the
show for you, guys. We already went to the courthouse,
signed the papers on the lunch break, took some photos,
and told like, why the to Ben's point, why the
hell would you spend such a ridiculous amount of money
to be absolutely miserable. Have you ever seen brides on

(29:56):
the day of They're just stressed, everything stressed.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
But this is their one day to be a celebrity.
Think about it. Everyone's taking pictures of you everywhere's fawning
over you. No, but it's true, like this is like
this day where you are the star and you get
everyone is wants you and everyone's taking pictures of you,
and it's like and it's like, I don't know, I've
done that a little bit. I don't care.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
I think it goes deeper than that, because how do
y'all how do y'all feel about like your birthday? Do
you like it when you have a big birthday party
and everybody's eyes are on you, They're at your house,
they're coming over every five seconds being like.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
Hey, happy birthday, So how are you.

Speaker 4 (30:37):
I had one year where I had so much anxiety.
I tend to have a normal amount of anxiety around
my birthday, but I had one year where I was
like freaking out because I feel like my birthday always
reminded me of like it reminds you of your relationships,
reminds you of like, oh, do people want to celebrate you?
And like the idea of me like making I made

(30:59):
an invite everything and like sent it to like a
group of people to come, and.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
I was so nervous.

Speaker 4 (31:04):
Before anyone could even reply, I was sent a follow
up being like.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
Actually I canceled this.

Speaker 4 (31:09):
I'm just gonna go on a solo vacation and then
last minute, I like on my actual birthday to talk
with a friend and they were like, just do something,
and I ended up having a last minute like to
get together that I ended up having wanting.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
And that's actually how.

Speaker 4 (31:25):
I ended becoming really good friends with my friend Draveil,
because they showed up and they were like, I knew
something was going you were having a little chaos moment,
Like everybody knows I have a little chaos, and they
allowed and they allowed me to just like exist and
they showed up in support and that kind of opened
the door to our friendship. But I don't know, I
just always get very nervous around birthdays because someone wants

(31:47):
to celebrate, well all.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
That all that attention is on you.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
That's what's so weird about it is like it's a
long drawn out version of singing the birthday song, sitting
around the cake.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
Like that's what a wedding is, is you.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Sitting there with your cake being like, yes, you guys,
it is my birthday, and thank you all for acknowledging
how much you love me by watching me do this thing.
While you sing at me and I show you how
good it is to sit here and be cake.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
But also, like, you know what, I think that we
create opportunities to celebrate the people we love and care
about in a ritualized way, because if not, life gets
so big and hard that you know, you don't get
those moments. I think like when Maddie and I were
first in a relationship, I wanted a wedding so badly
because I wanted to just show everyone, like, look at

(32:37):
my love. I love this person so fucking much, don't
you see it? And now it's like I am so
secure in my love. I'm so secure in my relationship.
We have such a strong relationship where we communicate in
ways most people can't. Then I'm like, I'm entering into
this institution that never wanted me and that fails more

(32:57):
than fifty percent of the time. And I'm like, maybe
I should just do what we're doing, and and you know,
I don't know. I okay, I've been taped. I've been
tiptoeing around this thing.

Speaker 4 (33:11):
So I feel like my real reason of not really
wanting weddings is due to my family, because I have
had conversations around if I was to ever get married
with like certain people show up and the response was,
I don't know, I have to see and it's someone

(33:34):
particularly like obviously like really close to me. And I
think for me, I think that's always been even when
it came to like relationships, it's always been like the
the point where I'm like, oh, I had to like
open up and like tell them about like my familiar
dynamics and and that's always been very nerve wracking to

(34:00):
me because I'm like, oh, my god, you are not
only inheriting my mess, but you're going to be also
inheriting like the drama of like family. And then like
also like yes, you have your chosen family and that
that really matters, but like it's is it weird if
like your immediate family isn't going to be there, like

(34:22):
my immediate family won't be there yours, But this is
that's that for me has been like I think something
that it's always been in the back of my mind
where it's like, yeah, your mom said she would probably
not come to your wedding, so like what do you
do with that? And that this was like a couple
of years ago when we had the conversation. It was
kind of very like Master of None having a conversation

(34:43):
like when Denise came out to her mom Angela Bassett.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
I've always been gay, but I'm still the same person.
I'm still your daughter. Nothing's changed.

Speaker 4 (34:56):
And like I was like talking to my mom and
we were just like having a really interesting conversation, and
for some reason, I just felt the need to be like, Okay,
if I was ever get a relationship and I get married,
would you come?

Speaker 2 (35:08):
And she was seriously like, no, nah, I don't. I
don't know she she's gonna she's going to come. I
think she would come. But I think I can be
and I think moms come around. I do think that.
But I just want to start by saying I'm sorry
because that sucks, and that like we can't wait nothing

(35:29):
apologize for no, I'm I'm sorry that that you're in
that situation. I feel sorry for the situation, Like I
didn't do anything wrong, but like you don't deserve you
deserve to be love and cherished, and I just want
to like name that also saying I relate and resemble that.
Like my mom is one of seven children. I had
a huge family, twenty two first cousins. On that side,

(35:49):
I barely see any of them, and like it was,
I had this feeling around my wedding because my my cousin,
Leah passed away. He was in college, a sailor at
Brown and I too the funeral, the memorial service, and
my family did not invite me to sit in the
family set. Oh wow, they didn't speak to me, Like

(36:10):
most of them didn't speak to me and my partner
who were there. And so we're sitting on a staircase
in the back, you know, at this thing is about
my cousin who I held, you know, hours after he
was born. And that's like the hard thing about being
queer is like all of these things are not just
a celebration. There's a lot of pain behind them, because
when you have all these people come together, it's what's

(36:32):
more glaring than all that love is are the people
who are missing.

Speaker 4 (36:36):
Sure, for sure, it's I mean it's one of those
things where it's like, like I said, this was a
couple of years ago. Maybe the pro like you, she
will maybe show up, who knows, but I think it
is something to be like said around the how that
plays into like, oh, this possibility on top of everything

(36:57):
else when it comes to dating and just dating in
twenty twenty five, and I don't know. It's just like, yeah,
weddings are like buying houses. It's not gonna fucking happen.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
It's not gonna happen. Well, I don't even care if you.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
Want one, it's not gonna have it, not in this economy, bitch.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
I know.

Speaker 4 (37:12):
It's it's like I feel like there, it's this conversation
is always like loaded for me because it's not as
just simple as just like oh, do I want the
glitz and the glamor of it all?

Speaker 2 (37:23):
It's like do I do? I?

Speaker 4 (37:26):
Actually it's based on the people that I will want
there because if I actually get to a place where
I meet someone that is like accepting me for me,
and I accept them for them, like I want everyone
to celebrate that like of course, but like.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
But then then I afford it because you're gonna want
the wedding. And then it's like it doesn't matter what
we want anymore. I want a house, I want a wedding,
I want a kid, I want all of these. It's
so wild to me though, right, and like I can't
number one.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
I cannot believe that, like there is a distinct possibility
that like.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Your mom wouldn't come to your own wedding. But more
than that, I can't believe. I'm sure not the only one, no,
But more than that, I.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
Can't believe that that is something that upsets you.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
Why that my mom won't come to my wedding.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
That anybody in your family won't come to your wedding legitimate?

Speaker 2 (38:09):
What do you mean by that?

Speaker 1 (38:11):
I mean the most stressful element about uh, the idea
of having a wedding, which my entire family wants me
to the most stressful idea is that you have to
see your family, Like, bitch, are you kidding me? I
already did Christmas, Thanksgiving, fourth of July and Eastern and
now I've got to add another date on.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
But that's the thing.

Speaker 4 (38:31):
What happens if your world is like if you're your
situation is like you're you're you.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
Don't have that tight knit family like I don't have that.

Speaker 4 (38:39):
My immediate family is literally my mom and my grandmother
and like it's everything else is kind of like broken
into pieces. Now, Like my siblings on my dad's side
will for sure be there his you know why, Like
ex wife will be there, but like you know, it's
like it's it's it's hard. It complicates things even further.
I think me saying that is like into this decision

(38:59):
is like when you have complicated family dynamics, it's.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Just it just makes it.

Speaker 4 (39:05):
It doesn't make it the fairytale thing that I think
we all want.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
To remove my family like golf man, Like that's what
I think. Like I think, like you read trash no,
but like but you got to reframe what you're thinking
because you're thinking, oh, let's go to Vegas. But it's
like why not like the two of us on a
beach with a camera, Like maybe a marriage isn't about
everybody else, and maybe the reason wedding like separating weddings

(39:32):
and marriages, people spend so much time planning their wedding
that they don't spend enough time planning their marriage.

Speaker 4 (39:38):
And like I take I connect elopements to like secret
like it's a secret, Like it's a secretive thing and
it necessarily doesn't have to.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
It's more of a reclamation of marriage. Yeah, where it's like, oh,
this is literally for us to celebrate our love. Here's
a picture we looked great.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
Yeah, that's why that's like what I did you know,
Doug and I went to the courthouse literally on his
lunch break one random week while I was in New York.
We got married because we knew it was the thing
we wanted to do, and then we just like broke
the news to people after being like, yeah, I know
you guys want to celebrate this, but like it's secretly
not about you, which is why I think I'd like

(40:16):
to move towards the direction of, like, if we are
having weddings, you should be able to pick, like how
you want to be celebrated. It reminds me of that
one scene in the gay episode of The Last of
Us where it's like.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
I just want you to love me how I want
to be loved. To love me. Yes, they love me
the way I want you to. I don't.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
I don't want to have to talk about Jesus or
the Holy Spirit if I don't want that. I want
my queer friends to be able to celebrate the love
that they understand me and my partner have in the
way that we actually do, which means somebody's probably going
to do a line off of someone's dick and I
don't care if it's my grandma.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Oh wow, we are going to very very very different weddings.
I will say that, but going a different wedd but
it has to be for you wedding. A similar thing
was like the music at this wedding, Like all the
old white people love the music, and I didn't film
there them dancing because it's family and I wasn't gonna
let that go. Yeah, no, I wish no. It was

(41:27):
like I couldn't think of a song. Matty was like,
I was like, Mattie, I feel like they were playing
Cotton Eye Joe and She's like, no, they weren't. I
was like, it felt like it.

Speaker 4 (41:33):
Okay, the energy, SI's exactly.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
Way, that's too much weight.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
Okay, So then let's let's let's build our fantasy a
little bit here. What is one thing that you would
definitely like want to be a staple of your wedding,
of your your perfect day to celebrate your love between
you and this person who all so has no opinions.
They don't care. They're like, yeah, I'll just do whatever

(42:03):
you want. Well, my partner and I want like the
same things. We want it to be somewhere we love.
So it's probably gonna be like Prospect Park, I'm in
Prospect park two hours a day walking, like we walked
by the boat house we want to get married in.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
We've thought about the Brooklyn Botanic Garden. We've been members
for many years. Places that like bring us joy. I
want the food to be our favorite things. And then
we have to like we're not big drinkers, we're big stoners.
So it's like, you know, have to have some elements
that are for us, and like if you don't like it,
leave Who brings up the wedding first? Like? Who? Like

(42:38):
when yo, we're talking about this.

Speaker 4 (42:40):
I always wondered this, like what stage were you at
in your relationship that she brought three days in?

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Wow?

Speaker 4 (42:48):
You know?

Speaker 2 (42:49):
I mean I Maddie came over for what was supposed
to be hooked up and I don't know. I had
centrally see in a really nice apartment and I was
making a lot of money. I don't know. We just
like fell in love. She like never left. She was like,
do you mind if I just like spend the night.
And then it was like two months later she's just like,
do you mind if I just spend the rest of
my life with you? That's sight? Yeah, I think that

(43:09):
would work, And it has and it's worked.

Speaker 4 (43:13):
I feel like what I've envisioned currently this is all
subjected to change. All my thoughts on this podcast are
subjected to change.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
At any moments. I just want to put that little
warning out there.

Speaker 4 (43:24):
But I would love, if I'm being honest, a small
little like private ceremony and then doing like a lavish,
beautiful dinner. Yeah, like twenty thirty people, maybe forty to
fifty at a beautiful king's table.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
Matt and I have been talking about starting a micro
wedding business for this very reason, which is like literally
helping like millennials and gen Z for weddings. For like
five to ten thousand dollars, you can get permits to
like have a wedding in the park. You can, there's
all these ways to like we have to re envision
what it means to have this celebration for ourselves that
isn't rooted in spending lots of money, but it's instead

(43:58):
about like, let's create the amazing experience to celebrate our love.
The wedding I was at, they have the most beautiful
ceremony presentation, Like I was just like crying the entire time,
and it's like there's so many things that don't cost money,
that can celebrate who we are, and I don't actually
need a hundred people there. It's like, if I don't
love every single person in that room, then like, why

(44:19):
the hell are they there? And why am I paying
two hundred dollars a plate for them?

Speaker 1 (44:22):
Ooh yeah, see No, that's a complete no for me
and the I think what stresses me out the most
about weddings is I have so so many people I love, Like,
just starting with family, I have two different gigantic families
who will all kick the shit out of me if
they're not invited to my wedding. So like, already I

(44:44):
have to have, like you know, a giant African Spiritualist family,
a gigantic Southern Baptist family. I have to pease both
of those somehow, and then you throw in all the
fuck ups I call my chosen family, Like, there's so many,
especially because yeah, I am inviting my hookups to the wedding.
I'm like, Hey, that gonna be your wedding party, just

(45:06):
people you both have fucked.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
Yes, honestly, it probably will be.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
So I think my ideal wedding would be, like it
starts in the daytime, so that like all the old
people can come. We have like a fake wedding for them,
where we're like, yes, Doug and Evie, we take each other,
throw some rice, somebody throw a child with a ring,
or you know whatever the straight traditions.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
I'll give you a goat throw a child with a ring,
and then as soon.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
As that sunsets, bitch, it's just like real life for me,
where like all of my weird, fucked up queer friends
start just like climbing over the fence into my backyard
and they're like.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
It's time for the blood ritual. Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (45:48):
Actually, maybe I'll just come to the celebration afterwards. Two
weeks from I don't know if I can come actually
to the ceremony anymore.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
You're cordially invited. Maybe's wedding is at the Eagle and
it's gonna be lit.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
Oh, it's actually pretty cute. Okay, the Eagle if you're
listening to this, but.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
It has to be the Eagle, New York. We know
that to be true. Legit. Okay, Like last question, do
you think that if you're only inviting one brown person
to your wedding, you should warn them that They're going
to be the only person of color there. Crazy, how
would you even do that?

Speaker 4 (46:29):
I mean, I don't it would be weird if we're
only inviting.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
One brown person to wear weddings, you know what I mean.
I'm not talking about us, I'm talking about I think
this is I know, Ev you've mentioned being one of
the only people of color at a wedding in the past, Like,
I don't know if you've had that experience, Ryan, for
it's almost every wedding I go to, and then I
have this thing where I'm like, I know you're not racist,

(46:54):
but like, also, what are you doing?

Speaker 4 (46:58):
Yeah, I mean I actually literally was just at a
Barday party. I was at a birthday party with some
really great friends and I noticed that I was literally
the only black person in the room.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
And here's the thing. It It sort of kind of
reminds me.

Speaker 4 (47:13):
I feel like very grateful of the way that I
grew up because I grew up in a very suburban
southern town where I had different friend groups and I
knew how to navigate those friend groups.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
I was with the black folks. Yeah, I knew it all.

Speaker 4 (47:29):
But it is very interesting where I'm like, Okay, it's
kind of also one of those things where if you
see someone like on a dating app, or you see
someone like their Instagram feed and you're like.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
Oh, so there is literally no ex like personal color
in your life.

Speaker 4 (47:43):
Which do they need to I don't know necessarily, because
my thing is I don't want them adding any drama
to that black person's life.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Wait, but this is what that's like.

Speaker 5 (47:54):
Actually likes is it racist not to have people of
color in your life, especially if you live in a
place where there are plenty of people of color around,
Like that's.

Speaker 2 (48:04):
Like race is to have people of color in their
life just because they want to. They need to have
a personal color.

Speaker 4 (48:08):
Like when you can tell, like when you're looking at
like a movie poster or you're looking at something and
they're You're like, oh, they were like, we need to
make said in this because it's given very white. At
this point in time where we are coaching that, I
think we can all clock it. And so it's it's
one of those things where you can tell when it's
genuine and when you can tell when it's like weird,
and they just don't think about it.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
I think I think it gets a little dangerous when
we start like trying to tell people what they should
and should not have in their in their lives, and
they're so social circles and stuff, because uh, that's not
how like real DEI should work. But it just like
it does feel so shitty. It feels so weird every wedding,

(48:54):
like lots of weird family events. You know, you show
up and you are the only black person. I do
think it like speaks to the experience that, like, you know,
you might be there for your partner or that one
friend or something, but like there is a difference in
the way that you navigate the world. So that's why
I'm personally like, girl, I'm not even taking any more chances.

(49:17):
I'm sick of being the only black person at the wedding.
I'm sick of being the only.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
Fairy at a fairy wedding? Are you kidding me? Everywhere? Yes, Like,
it doesn't matter who you are, what species you are, fairy,
human in between. Weddings are complicated. I think they're especially
complicated for us queer folks, and I think they're especially
complicated for all of our identities because we show up
in a room and we're here to celebrate one or

(49:42):
two people, and we have to meet all these new
people and watch our friends spend lots of money on
a party that most people are too drunk to remember,
and that's weddings. And I don't know, despite it all,
I think I'll have a wedding. I was thinking about
it the other day and I was like crying, and
I was like, wait, I need a wedding in love.

Speaker 4 (50:00):
That's the bit you has planned their wedding.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
No, I mean I started I was a kid. I
mean I planned my whole life and and I'm glad
you both are part of it. And you'll be at
my wedding for sure. That's for sure.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
Now that we've gotten through all the wedding talk, uh,
let's talk divorce after the breakik you are alrighty y'all,
It's time for our favorite moment. So you could tell
Ryan's geeked about it already. Ryan, I want to know,

(50:34):
starting with you, what.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
Are you high key about this week? Oh? My god,
I'm high key about hope. I'm okay, I hope.

Speaker 4 (50:40):
I don't sound like a little bit of a nerd,
but I am going to nerd out a little bit.
So over the past like three years or so, I've
been like slowly and gradually like collecting James Baldwin books,
and I have a portrait of him on my entertainment stand,
and I've been wanting to like tat myself with one
reading more because come on, and then two, just like

(51:04):
specifically his books. I went to Paris a few years
ago because a friend and I were like, we want
to have like our Jane Ballwin moment and get reinvigorated
and like re energized for the year coming up.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
And he's experienced racism on a different continent.

Speaker 4 (51:23):
Which honestly I didn't, which was kind of crazy anyway.
But I am high key about Notes of a Native Son.
I have started reading it for the first time, and
I didn't realize that he James Waldwin was thirty one
when he wrote this back in nineteen fifty five, and
I'm like, I'm thirty one and twenty twenty five reading

(51:45):
this book, and it's an essay of his thoughts in
a collection of like what he felt about culture at
the time and just life in general.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
And it's been really interesting.

Speaker 4 (51:55):
I for some reason feel like I'm just oddly and
weirdly connected to this person, and I just am really
excited to be kind of like adding into my collection
of work and really building in just honoring his legacy
because I don't know, it's just really really important when
you think about the work that he's done and being thirty,

(52:16):
being thirty one and about to be thirty two soon,
I'm just like, how does anyone have these thoughts? Like
I'm so fascinated about, like by writers in general, because
it's just not a talent that I have, but it's
just it's really fascinating. And so I've kind of been
deep diving into that. It's a little boring, but that's me,
that's my ikey.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
That's not boring.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
It's a little boring learning about learning about like what
my life would have been like in the fifties.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
Like oh, and it's not good. I mean, but the
man is an icon. I'm literally staring at a portrait
of him too, like as we're talking right now, and
I have the books on my shelf, and you look
at these people from before, and it reminds us that
like black queer people, black queer men have thrived even
for years for generations by like going and doing your

(53:03):
own thing, Like he left America, he found himself. I
just get so much permission from reading his books to
just be audacious literally and say what is on my mind.
And I'm so glad as we're all are we all
in our thirty one era for a moment? This is
like one of the few weeks where we're all thirty one,
So I think very appropriate Hikey of the week. You know,

(53:26):
I'm really I can't.

Speaker 4 (53:28):
I'm echoing everything you said, but like it's been really
fascinating to just know the things that he was writing
about is like, I mean, obviously still things that we
are still you know, contending with now, and so just
it's I'm I'm I can't wait to give y'all a
real kind of deep dive once I finish it. But
I'm very obsessed with this book right now.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
Very bitch talk talk talk some Native son to these kids.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
You know, Okay, been your turn? Oh gosh, I didn't
prepare one this week. I'm so I mean, if I'm
gonna be honest, like, I'm high key a bad week
and had something really really terrible happened that I can't
even talk about, which makes it more terrible. But what
I'm just trying to sit with is the fact that
it's like right now, so many people are struggling and

(54:15):
so many people are feeling really hopeless, and hope is
not like something that just like is real, Like, hope
is something that we create and then we thrive on.
And so I was about to go into this very
dejected place to get this terrible news right before we
start filming, and I texted you both be like, by
the way, if I'm crying this whole fucking thing, you

(54:36):
know why. But instead I was like, wait a minute,
but like, despite the bad, there's still so much good,
and I'm like really leaning into the multitudes of my life,
to the friendships, the connections that I have here outside
of this space, and so you know, as bad as
it's going, I'm just trying to reframe where I'm like,
it has always gotten better. And that's what I like

(54:59):
about sharing our personal lived experience, as we show people
like not all the times are good, and yet it's
real historically here we are, things have always gotten better.
And so I'm gonna start reframing that in my mind
when things are going bad, to just say that this
is temporary, even though it feels so permanent, it feels
so big, this is temporary. This pain is temporary, and

(55:20):
so like, I don't know, I just wanted to like
name that this week because I think sometimes we come
into these spaces and we want to create really aspirational spaces.
But there's nothing more aspirational than just like being yourself,
living your truth and just taking one day at a time.
Because it is a hard time to be alive right now,
and that's okay, but I'm I'm glad that you are alive,

(55:41):
and I'm glad that I'm alive even sometimes when it
it's tough.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
It is tough, you know, because there's like one part
of this that I think we all recognize, like we
want to create a space where like people want to
listen and shit, So there's you automatically go into like
I want y'all to have fun. It's it's like a
house party where you invited a bunch of people over.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
You're like, yes, come in, we're gonna have a red time,
and then.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
Like right before they get there, you get a bunch
of bad news and you're.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
Like, there's there's a handle in the kitchen.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
So I think it's completely valid, and I want to
say like thank you for thank you for opening opening
that up with us. Thank you for coming in and
being like, I'm high key going through it.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
You just a key going through it. But hey, I
still think we found the fun, you know, and that's
what you got to do. Even on those bad days.
You have to show up, leave it at the door,
and that's what friends are for. So I appreciate you both. Yeah,
shout out to you for pushing through.

Speaker 4 (56:40):
You know, like this is not I mean, I think
a lot of people have this perception that just like,
oh yeah, you're turning on a mic and it's just
easy work. And I'm not saying it's like brain surgery,
but it is a lot when you have to kind
of you know, when you put yourself out there, and
so I appreciate you for constantly always doing that at
raising the bar, right.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
Bitch, okay something shut out? I know?

Speaker 1 (57:04):
Right?

Speaker 2 (57:05):
Does it? I know? Does it get better? Let's let's
create our own viral video. Doesn't get better? Or were
they lying to you? Even brighten my day?

Speaker 1 (57:13):
Alright, well, I don't know how Well, there's just gonna
do that, but I'll start with the ones I have
two Hikey's Okay, Yeah, so I am hike obsessed with
King of Drag.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
The ten Kings are part of drag in history.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
This is my bulding, This is hike obsessed with King
of Drag.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
I have to put that out there.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
I could talk about it forever endeavor, which I might
later on our Patreon, but just know that, like you
are watching something beautiful happening in queer history right now
with a show about drag Kings.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
Uh, it's it's so good. I can't say anymore. It's
so good.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
But the second high key I have is I've been
hikey obsessed with Lizo's most recent project. Mm hmmm, it's
so it is very good.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
It's very good.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
Well, and it just feels very like an authentic response
to like what's been going on, because you know, Lizo
was at the front of this body positivity movement, you know, uh,
not only herself like endorsing like yes, be positive about her,
but being kind of put as the face of like
yeah and if you if you like fat people, go

(58:37):
listen to some Lizzo like it'll make you feel good.
And so I think it's really interesting for her to
come back out of all of her scandals, not with
like another pop album, but doing a real quick mixtape
just to be like, you know what, actually I have
some shit I want to address, because that's that's what
makes rap so good, is it is it is a

(58:59):
story telling experience, and Lizo's like, you know what, here's
some shit that wouldn't sound good in a pop song.

Speaker 2 (59:06):
I may have been fat, but I've never been ugly.
Eh Well, I think like, not only do we need
Lizo on the show, and I know production has been
in the works trying to make that happen, but I
also feel like this from my understanding, she had like
cut a whole different album and it was just like,
this is not what I need to be saying right now.

(59:28):
And sometimes we do all this work. You know, we're Rihanna,
and we spend ten years trying to make the best
new thing, and sometimes we just need to go and
lay out what we're feeling in this moment, and that's
what it feels like. It felt like, Wow, you didn't
like my first single, then who cares? Why am I
even trying? Let me make what I want to do well.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
And I think one of one of the most interesting
aspects about it is it really does feel like she
refound the confidence that people loved about Lizo in the
first place by just owning what's actually in her ruth.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Yeah, you can tell.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
She has like a good group of girlfriends around her,
like they use actual audio all the time on the project.
She's like chilling and shouting out all the like biggest
rap bitches in the game, being like, listen, this shit
is hard, and I know that y'all understand it. I
know that you got it, Nikki, I know that you
get it, Doja? I know, Like it was so hot

(01:00:21):
to me to see somebody whose society has a lot
of fun kicking down be like you know what, Actually,
fuck y'all bitches, I'm sick of trying to make you happy.
Here's some shit talk, motherfucker.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
Yeah. It's so.

Speaker 4 (01:00:35):
I've interviewed her a few times now, and they've all
I feel like I've seen her at different stages of
her career. One where she's completely burnt out and she
was at the peak of her career. Two the second
time was like she was really still at a peak
of her career, but like she it felt like she was,
you know, figuring out, well, what else do I have

(01:00:55):
besides just this this level of artistry. She was around
like opening up giddy and developing giddy. And now it
feels like, because she's gone through everything that she's gone
through so publicly, it kind of feels like why she's
at the places like, well, why I'm not gonna dwell
on this anymore? Like I have to move forward and

(01:01:16):
I have to get the things off my chest and
I won't be silenced.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
And I really appreciate that.

Speaker 4 (01:01:20):
And so it'll be nice to have her on the
show and be able to talk at some point about
this moment where she that she's in now, because it
does feel refreshing in a lot of ways, and.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
I'm like ready for people to get a chance to
see that she needs an opportunity to kind of reclaim
the narrative a little bit, and she's done it with
her work and some of the interviews I've watched, we
just haven't seen them really get into it enough. I'm like, girl,
let's get into it. And people will never make me
hate Liza.

Speaker 4 (01:01:48):
I'm sorry, it just won't happen ever, right that, you
know what I mean exactly?

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
Well, shout out Lizzo, your all of our high key
bitch keep smiling or bitch, I'm smilinger smile or die trying.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
All right, that's all the kind of show. Can I
can I say one thing one thing before we go,
because this is like something I want to celebrate us.
I'm hig key obsessed with us. We got some news
that our show is doing really, really well, and so
many people are listening, more than we realized, and so
many in fact that like if everyone who is listening
right now got three other people to listen to this show, yes,

(01:02:26):
please do, it would literally be one of the biggest
shows in the entire world. It's not that hard, but
it really helps us in a huge way. And so
I just want to like take a quick moment to
make a quick psa thank you for being here already,
and there are so many of you, but share what
this space is and means to you, you know, leave
a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, leave a comment

(01:02:49):
on Spotify or on YouTube so we can have a
conversation like the comments on so I do too. Oh
my god, they're so good.

Speaker 4 (01:02:56):
But also even on YouTube, like YouTube is great too,
like watching this so yes, get involved, it's even better.
We should have a moment where we're like responding to
those we should.

Speaker 2 (01:03:06):
Yeah, we are a community so you know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Hit us on Spotify, it is on YouTube, follow us
on Patreon, and subscribe to our Patreon to hear all
the extra juicy stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Oh there's so much good shit there. People don't even realize,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
And if you're really if you're really, really passionate, just
send us some hateful mail in our DMS.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
Please, I love it. Does really help, does really help.
I want to wedd end the show. Oh my god,
it was a great show though, it really was. It's
always fun chatting with you guys about anything, but this
week was a little close to home, so it was

(01:03:49):
extra fun. Well, y'all are both invited to invited to
all the wedding parts, the family and the orgy.

Speaker 4 (01:03:57):
All right, well we'll discuss the last part until next week,
though either you want to say it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
Okay, until next week, y'all. Stay messy, stay obsessed, and
stay hikey.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
Yeah you ate bag hikey. See.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
If you're high key loving our show, then take a
second to follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode.
And while you're at it, rate us, drop a review
and tell your friend sis.

Speaker 4 (01:04:25):
And of course, if you want to keep the high
key keep going, join us on Instagram and TikTok at
high Key here and on Patreon, where we're dropping bonus
content every single.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
Wait see there. Hi Key is a production of My
Heart podcast as part of the Outspoken Network. This show
is created and executive produced by Pano Keep, Ryan, Mitchell,
Eve Odley, and Spoke Media. Our showrunner is Tyler Green.

Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
Our producers are Jonasanti, Jenna Burnett, and Tess Ryan. Our
video lead is Louis Panel and our audio engineer is
Sammy Syram. Executive users for Spoke Media our Travis Salmont
Ballinger and Elijah Tavicollian.

Speaker 4 (01:05:03):
Our iHeart team is Just Crimechitch and Sierra Kaiser. Our
theme music is by Kaiane Hersey, and our show art
is by Work by Word with photography by Eric Carter.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
Thank you