September 1, 2025 • 58 mins
This week on HIGHKEY, Ryan Mitchell and Yvie Oddly welcome the brilliant writer and activist George M Johnson (All Boys Aren’t Blue, Fighting Words). Together, they dive into internet discourse, the rise of banned books, and why Bugs Bunny in a dress still has conservatives clutching pearls.
George opens up about the realities of being at the center of cultural battles, the absurdity of censorship, and how community shows up (or doesn’t) when queer voices are targeted. Plus, the crew unpacks Lil Nas X’s latest headlines, grief on the internet, and what it really means to shut up—or speak out—online.
If you’re HIGHKEY! vibing with us, come hang on Patreon! We’re dropping bonus content, behind-the-scenes tea, exclusive group hangs — basically, the HighKiKi.
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HIGHKEY! is a production of iHeartPodcasts, as part of the Outspoken network. The show is created and executive produced by Ryan Mitchell, Yvie Oddly, and Spoke Media.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Not me, just being on set by myself. Helloo security
if he knew we had ten seconds and we keep
it all of this ten seconds here too.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Oh my god, I was so rude. I was holding
in the longest p of my life. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Did you wash your hands?
Speaker 3 (00:16):
This is my home?
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Please?
Speaker 4 (00:24):
Thank you?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
What a friends. Welcome to High Key.
Speaker 5 (00:29):
I'm Ryan Mitchell and I'm Evi Oddley and today we're
getting into it with the brilliant George M. Johnson, author,
activist and all around t clocker.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Now we're talking about everything from band books to why
everyone on the Internet needs to just shut the hella.
Speaker 5 (00:45):
Plus we're spilling all that truth handy on garage sales
and whether bugs, Bunny and address really broke America.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
And of course if you want bonus content, Plus, I'm
behind the scenes Chaos and the full after party Vibe.
Join us the aptes over on Patreon, Patreon, dot com,
slash hikey.
Speaker 5 (01:04):
But first things first, let's get to the Highkey Key.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I went to this weekend or was it was it
this weekend or was it last week? What today? What
is today? Anyway? I went to go see a play
for it was like a black theater night at a
play downtown at a theater downtown at the Amerson Theater,
and I went to go see and Juliet.
Speaker 5 (01:26):
In my play, Romeo and Juliet are starclus lovers from
both to meet the tragic end.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Maybe it's not an ending at all.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
What if she wakes up and of science just meth on?
Wait and Juliet.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Okay, So it's a musical. It's a Broadway musical. But
of course this is the touring company and I knew
a little bit about it. I was. The reason why
I went is because Juliet. It's like a spin off
of like a Romeo and Juliet, like what happens to
Juliet never killed herself. Juliet is a black girl in
the play. Her name is Rachel sim Webb.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Oh wait, I feel like we talked about this.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah, and I'm very excited. I was like very like.
I went. It was I was on a date actually,
and I went and it was very cute. It was
such a good time and that show is just so
queer in all the ways. I wasn't expecting that. And
I also wasn't expecting that the like that I knew
so many Katy Perry and Pink songs because it's a
(02:20):
jukebox musical and everything is written like it's songs by
Max Martin, and so I was like, wait, why am
I singing roar? Like why do I know the lyrics
right now?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I got the eye?
Speaker 1 (02:39):
But like it was actually really good and shout out
to like the interpretation of like, you know, just when
there is a like Juliette is being black and kind
of the nuances of that. And then of course, you know,
black theater nights, even though I always kind of go
into those spaces, I've had some tragic experience or some
traumatized experiences with black theater night. I saw slave play
(03:01):
out of Black theater night, which whose fucking idea was that? Yeah,
it's like it was. It was a mess, but the
show was great and so I lived for it. How
how have you been? How was the birthday? How was
the garage sale? How was life?
Speaker 5 (03:15):
It was really really good, Like it really did take
like all of the give a fucks I've ever had
to organize and try and like be that many people
and take care of that many things.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
But like, girl, I have no clothes left. It's really hot.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
As I said, you miss anything, Like, did you were
you when people were buying this stuff? Were you like,
oh my god, Actually I kind of want to keep this.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I mean, I miss I miss everything.
Speaker 5 (03:41):
But that's why, you know, the more I missed something,
the more I realized that I was going to miss her,
the higher the price was. Bitch nicld Page Brokes showed
up at like one or two in the afternoon with
like an item that was off of my volunteer rack,
which means that I was doubling the price since you know,
somebody had already put in the sweat for me.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Of course, so.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
She grabbed my like really iconic, like really expensive fashion dress.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Really uh huh.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
She like I was just waking up, girl, Like I
was just waking into the haze of the day and
being like, okay, yeah, people are here, they're buying things.
And then I turn around and she's like how much
for this? And so I just charged her a ludicrous
price and.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Did she buy She actually bought it?
Speaker 5 (04:30):
Hell yes, especially because girl, that shit is history. So
that's like, that's what it feels like. It's really good
to know that I am not just holding on to
so much of myself and that I'm now challenged as
an artist to find enough clothes to get dressed every day.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I just think it's so interesting when like like queens
like yourself decide to like sell their stuff. I get
kind of the system that you create, where like maybe
selling it to baby queens or local queen are like
other drag race queens. And I mean we saw in
the past seasons, like past things that other queens have
like worn on the show were like repurpose and worn again.
And I just I'm like, has anyone ever thought about
(05:13):
the possibility of like maybe keeping your archives because there
will probably be a like a drag race museum one day,
and you can get so much calling from that shit.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
I mean, bitch, I've thought about that.
Speaker 5 (05:24):
That's why I was charging super super expensive prices for
all of the things that I knew would have an
impact on the culture. I think there was like one
drag race outfit I giveaway from like All Star seven,
like my spikes. Look where I was on crutches. I
mean I still have the crutches, but I gave her
away because I was I was pissed.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yeah that's real, that's actually really real. It's just yeah,
I'm happy you had a good time, and it seems
like you and Doug y'all had your like own little
you had a lot of birthday things going.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
It wasn't just it was crazy.
Speaker 5 (06:01):
We had a foursome too that lasted until like four
in the morning. I was like, okay, this was gonna
take so much energy. I'm so tired after all this,
and then some of the people who have come.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
To help us out stay behind.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
So you had you had a foursome with your volunteers.
Is that is there not an HR?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
I am the HR I had.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
I had them file out an entire consent she's beforehand, uh,
stating that they were no longer being employed by me.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Yes, Oh.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
That's kind of crazy. I mean, I'm happy you had
a fun time, and I'm happy they were able to
give you an extra little gift for your birthday.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (06:48):
But I'm honestly, I'm really excited because we have like
such a wild show today.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Girl, like I just snapped back into the real world.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
Do you wanna do you want to take some I'm
to introduce our our sleeve of course.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Oh my gosh. So I'm very excited about today's guests.
I mean, you probably know them from their best selling memoir,
All Boys Aren't Blue. I actually have it right here.
It's a coffee table book of mine. Or maybe you've
heard them on their iHeart podcasts Fighting Words, which honestly
makes them kind of like our podcast sibling when you're
really thinking about it. But I love this person. They
(07:24):
are literally so smart, absolutely genius and like the list
of things just goes on and on and on. But
I'm happy that they're joining us for a little hang
and a little key. So please welcome Rider Activists and
all around icon George and Johnson.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
Hi George, Yes, yes, we hear you, We see you,
y'all are ricky.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Thank you for letting mend your home.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
I don't know, you might need to clean it and
maybe wash off things.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Oh yeah between the bathroom and the fourth.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Do you see what I have to deal with?
Speaker 6 (08:09):
So so.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yes, yes, I mean I knew of George from like
the Twitter days, when like Twitter was actually like a
place where you, like you could actually, like Loki, kind
of make a career off of like being someone that
has something to say, it has something valuable to say,
My need to add and so it's it's so interesting
(08:36):
to see how those pieces have like connected to your
writing on bylines and then connecting to you being an
author and all of the plentyful of things that have
like come out of your career at this point. But
I I guess anytime I think about you, I think
about this course, you know what I mean, and kind
of how that impacts us culturally. So like, what's the
(09:00):
thing you saw on the Internet that gave you the ick?
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Well, I mean the the Pumpkin face man is on
the Internet every day, so unfortunately I am icked every
time he sits in front of a camera and rambles
for forty eight minutes. I guess his rambling time is
like it usually runs between like forty eight minutes and
an hour and three minutes.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Which who's listening to that?
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Because no one's even listening at this point. It's just
like the rambles are just ridiculous. I think today Today's
it was the executive order that was like something that's
already in the constitution about like flag burning, and I
was just like, okay, like.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
I feel bad, that's terrible.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
I like, legit don't even process that that is like
a part of the Internet mark anymore because it's just there.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
I think part of it is like because I always say,
like I guess with like being a journalist, I'll always
be a journalist, whether I'm riding bylines or not. So
I'm still tuned in into like certain things, and then
like there are certain things that are like, Okay, I
need to go online and break this really large topic down,
like when they're doing terrorists or taxes and things that
people may not understand to really get it out there.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
And then you get stupid shit like flag.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Burning as an executive order, and it's like like like actually,
for real, like with everything going.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Like actually, it's back to back these things where I, yeah,
I've kind of if I'm being gold honest, I have
kind of disconnected, especially since my daytime television is kind
of on hiatus as it's the summer break. I have
completely disconnected from a lot of like the larger political
things that are going on because I have just been
worn out, like there's just it's it's one thing after
(10:48):
the other. And then I was talking to a friend
about this of how the expectations in our actual everyday
lives nothing is being supplemented by the stress of being
like hit upside our heads with all of this news
that is coming in and then just being expected that
life is going to like has to continue and we
(11:09):
can't do anything about it. Right there is no there's
no middle ground right now, there's no way of us
like escape it.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
I compare it to like when I used to have
a like work in higher ed or corporate America.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
I compare it to like America.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
To me, really rest upon the notion of how you
only get three days of bereavement if your parent dies.
I always thought about like that, like that that like, oh,
well you get three days bereavement, and if you've got
a really good job, you might get five. And it's like,
so just so we're clear the way that this country
(11:49):
is set up because of capitalism, the total disregard of
someone's mental health and all these things, is that if
my parent passes away, I got a three days to
figure it out before I have to come back in
a year and deal with this plus distressors of life.
And I've always felt like bereavement was like, in my opinion,
like really indicative of America and just how it just
(12:10):
really relies upon death, the way it relies upon you
not processing it fast enough. It's like millions of people
were lost to COVID, and the best thing they could
do was, like we got to get back outside. People
still are losing their lives every day because all these
new policies and things, but it's like it's so much
happening that, like death has just become so normalized that
(12:31):
we just kind of bypass it and it's like, oh, yeah,
rest in peace. Yeah, like one of the greatest let's say,
artists or something in history, and within twenty four to
forty eight hours we have moved on to something else.
And I think that's kind of like the state of
where I'm at right now is like trying to almost
be like better at helping other people process grief because
(12:54):
I think a lot of us are just grieving and
because there is no real outlet for it, it's like
we're just filling it with whatever we can to survive,
which is a scary place to be.
Speaker 5 (13:06):
Yeah, I mean, I feel like it's interesting that you
bring that up, because you know, even outside of the
very scary, looming, impossible contexts of death, Like, I feel
like a good way that people really have been getting
out that sort of grief is through the ability to
(13:27):
have discourse about all the different griefs we're experiencing, Like
social media has given us this place where you're expected
to perform grief about big things, about small things. Like
my favorite is like the Christian girl Autumn Girl.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
I'm not going to be able to post fall videos
this year.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
It's just a lot of pressure.
Speaker 5 (13:57):
I don't care if it's real or fake or not.
That's like my favorite that I've seen is her being.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Like, oh, it's so hard to make a pumpskin spice
Lotte picture.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
It's like, actually, it was a legit grief, and like
there was a part of me that like my eyes
got wet for her.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
You were like I actually had a sense of empathy
for the fact that you just are exhausted from being
this like a fall queen.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
And it's funny because I think it talks about we
all live on different sides of the internet. Because when
I first saw the video, I was like, what the
fuck is an Autumn girl? I was like, I have
never even heard of this, and like I just always knew,
Like the running joke was always like about pumpkin spiced items. Yeah,
show up during September and October. You know, I'm a
(14:44):
sweet potato pie girl. So I'm not eating nothing with
a pumpkin with it, so like it always bypassed me.
Now I do like a little yeah, take take a
piece of my card away.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
I do like beer that has pumpkins by saying.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Right now, oh absolutely not absolutely.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Now, I could do a beer like an october Fest
beerd it has like a seasonal blend out, which just
apple cider.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Okay, apple cider.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
What in the day? Then?
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Why?
Speaker 7 (15:12):
Now?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Why are you drinking beer? I say, beer is not
meant for non binary people?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Why am I drinking beer?
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Right?
Speaker 4 (15:18):
But that lady, well everything. I was like, what the
hell is an autumn? I was like, did I just
miss this whole part of the internet.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
Well, yeah, but that's a that's a good part of
like you know, you speak about specifically death and grief
and how quickly we move on from that, But it
also has like a sped up how quickly we process everything.
Everything is like a micro trend. Everything is a moment,
(15:46):
and I kind of feel like that's one of the
things that's stopped us as a culture from having like
like actual discussions with each other. You know, I've started
saving the things that I would type on Twitter because
it would be funny and cute. I've started saving those
for my in person interactions because I can deliver like
(16:11):
how ridiculous life is in even the most like serious
of reading.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Well, and that's the thing for me where it's like
I exist actually on so many different parts of the
Internet right, like because my interests are expansive, like I
knew about, you know, Autumn girl with her uggs and
her pumpkin spice lattes. But then I'm also in like
black queer community business where everyone has a thought process
(16:37):
around little knives x and like the Laverne Cox apiece,
and like it starts to become a little overwhelming because
I just remember those early days of you being on Twitter, George.
I've always wondered, I guess, what do you think made
people pay attention to your voice? So early on?
Speaker 2 (16:57):
What made people pay attention?
Speaker 4 (17:00):
And I think to my voice was some of us
were the source of other people's commentary, other people that
you would listen to, and I think that people then
were coming to some of us as like root source,
like well, where did this idea come from? Because I
(17:20):
always say, like most ideas And I was just talking
with mikel Street about this and Michael Roberson about this,
how like it's always the smallest parts of queer community
that create everything that goes out to the world.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
It reminds me.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
Of like the Devil Wears product, where she's like, yes,
I picked this cerulean expensive bel so that you could
go in a bucket and pick out that ugly blue
looking sweater.
Speaker 6 (17:43):
However, that blue represents millions of dollars and countless jobs.
And it's sort of comical how you think that you've
made a choice that exempts you from the fashion industry,
when in fact, you're wearing a sweater that was selected
for you by the people in this room.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Yeah, it started from a very small room with small people,
and I feel like, whether it's drag, whether it's ballroom,
whether it's the king community, like, it's always from like
the smallest pockets of community where the largest ideas go out.
And so I feel that at some point people started
to want more of like source, who's the source of this?
And so I think you had a lot of people
(18:20):
who amplified me, who I'm grateful for. Like some of
the first people who really amplified my tweets were Gabrielle
Union and Zendeia.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah, when I was really like.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
Tweeting an Anita Baker, like she would share all of
my articles I was writing, right, And so it was
like you had people who were trusted voices to the masses,
and that's going to be, you know, for several reasons,
but primarily like people are like, Ooh, I love what
George would say, or I love what Ryan said, I
love what the queer folks are saying. I just wish
it was coming from a straight person, because I could
(18:52):
be led by a straight person. I don't know if
I could be led by a George. I don't know
if i'd be led by a r you know. And
so I think I take that the optics of it,
and it just was interesting because I was saying the
things that needed to be said, and I'm just grateful
that there were people who shared it to the masses
and the way they did, or else it probably would
have never gotten to them because it's hard to get
(19:15):
a heterosexual black man to take what I'm saying, even
if they know that it's true.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
It's like, I just can't take it from you. And
so I think that's really how that happened.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
But I think now we all can really understand that.
It's like it is the people like us who do
these things that then permeate through our community and other communities,
whether they know it or not. It's always like the
butterfly fact. It's like somebody did something that you may
not even know that they did. They gave you this
opportunity down the road, but it had to start with
a person who may not even be here.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
I mean, honestly, that's something I've.
Speaker 5 (19:51):
Been contemplating a lot recently, specifically because I love rap,
and so I've seen this like integration recently in rap
music of clocking tea and spilling tea, and I'm like, y'all.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Are so faggy and you don't even know.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
It's actually quite annoying. Every time I see a straight
man like do the fingertap on the wrong finger, it
actually will continue to irk me because it's just another
example of the ways that this language just continues to
get co opted from our experiences.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
And some of us have been here long enough. And
I think that's the other t right, I think some
of us have just been here long enough to remember
how we got here. Right Like, even with we're talking
about rap, it's like, well, there was a term and
it was called metrosexual, and it was so them straight
men could invest in grooming.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
And just feeling, like just emotional feeling.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Straight men were the first.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Literally right able to be emotion right.
Speaker 5 (20:56):
Like.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
It was this whole trend and it was built around
like once like jay Z you know, stopped with the
white teas and started with the business suits and then
Puppy comes out with uh whatever seawan John as a
brand and like, but they were into grooming and they
were into all of these different things that everybody was
already like, Wait, isn't that like queer if you do that,
if you get a manicure in your stren isn't that that?
(21:18):
And then again they created their own term. Romance was
another one of the terms that gave me itck because
it was like, you, we don't have to create a
new term for something that already exists.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah, are just simply liking someone.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I can be hugging your friend like you can hug.
Speaker 5 (21:33):
You, but it's like extra interesting like for me specifically
hearing like clocking that tea or like spilling this tea,
and like in otherwise, uh in a culture that otherwise
like just is dying to call me a faggot because
of things like, you know, not only all the drama
that's happened with Lil nas X, but also, in my opinion,
(21:56):
small things with Snoop Dogg being like, yeah, man, I
can't even go to the movies anymore without seeing seeing
some gay shit on my screen.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
And I'm terrified. They just said she and she had
a baby.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
They both women.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
How does she have a baby.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
So it's like, I'm scared to go to the movies. Then,
like y'all throwing me in the.
Speaker 5 (22:12):
Middle of I don't have an answer for and I'm like, yeah,
but that's always been the case.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
I'm just glad people are saying that.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
But you was a certified pimp, So I'm just confused
at howld you missed that lesbians exist in all the
years that you was running around as a certified pimp,
Like that's what like, And I think that's when I
saw it because I just happened to see it yesterday
because I.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Was traveled back.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
This makes absolutely no sense, Like to come from a
person like you who whole career your first album was
called Doggy Style, so you must know something about sex
and gender and identity and how sex works and who
was having sex.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
So like to pretend now at your big age that
like this.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
Is so offensive when you were publicly it'd be number
one for white people for overt sexuality in your treatment
of women.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
It's just insanity.
Speaker 5 (23:06):
I mean, I just I do feel bad for him
because he probably has to deal with it in his
work environment too. You know, when he goes on to
the voice to do his jazzy little songs out of pitch,
he has to have a little faggot in his dressing
room like touching up his makeup, and it probably gets
him so hard.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
No, fuck him. I'm sorry. I just want to say
that because I think.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
I'm so sure that it is so hard to show
up to work with the story.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah, and I think it is one. I'm assuming the
child or whoever he was with that was the impetus
when they were watching that film and they saw this
like queer animated character. I'm sure that person that he
was with has heard and been subjected to his lifestyle
and way worse things than seeing two lesbians on light
(23:55):
Year in a Disney film versus like him going somewhere.
So it's like it's it just feels it's annoying when
something like that happens, and then the headlines are like
are out there, And then of course that creates this
level of conversation where everyone in their mama has decided
to like put in their two cents around this, around
(24:18):
what's acceptible and what's you know, should this stuff be
in media and television? All these things? It's so annoying.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Bugs Bunny been cross dressed and since nineteen six, like
the Looney tune, like what are we talking about? Like
bugs Bunny has been in heels, in address in lipsticks
since the sixties.
Speaker 6 (24:37):
Oh how simply dreadful?
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Did I hook you with my naughty gun?
Speaker 4 (24:44):
And like we are like pretending that like two queer
characters on screen is like some new phenomenon. And I'm like,
I'm sitting here like yo, I wrote about the first
time I heard about the word lesbian, I was watching
Murphy Brown with my mother. So this had to be
like ninety four when learn who lesbian was, so in
twenty twenty five to be like, uh, like Ellen came out.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
On TV how many years ago? And we are that too?
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Queer characters on the cartoon This is this bigg issue
but I think what it talks too bigger is just
how conservatism has taken like such a stranglehold on even
those who you thought, you know, who clearly didn't practice
their whole life being seen as conservative, right, Like you're
(25:29):
in rap that was seen as a radical act against
the police and against so many things, like you almost
went to jail for murder, like you like you know,
like like you live a life, and so it's like
for this to be like the thing that offends you
when you were best friends with should Night. I'm just like, Okay,
how conservative are we gonna go?
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Now? Does discourse actually move the needle or does it
just to the noise? Like is there a moment where
discourse is actually like important for a cause?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yes, discourse is important.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
It's like, I guess when it comes to me, it's interesting,
right because it's like I remember when the book band started,
and I remember like getting you know, banned in all
these places, and I was like, oh, this is interesting, right, Like.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Which that the discourse from that actually is what kind
of blew your book up.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
It did in a in a in a way that
it would have never been before. And then like I start,
you know, speaking out like I normally do because I'm
gonna say something, and then I get criminal complaints against me,
and I'm like, wait, I didn't even know you could
take a book to a sheriff's office and follow criminal
charge against a book. So we all are learning now,
we're all learning, you know, So we're all learning, you
(26:49):
US civics in real time because we're like, oh, you
can actually take a book to a shaff's okay, So
we learn and how the law works. But I think
for me, the big, the most pivotal moment was when
Senator can Unity read the book out loud at a
Senate Judiciary hearing. That's when I really realized, like how
Tony Morrisons is always like art is like the strongest
thing that we have against fascism, like point blank and period.
(27:11):
And she was like, you will notice it once they
start to try and ban art, they start to try
and demonize art, they try.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
She was like, there's a reason they go after art.
Speaker 8 (27:19):
The history of art has always been bloody because dictators
and people in office and people who want to control
and deceive know exactly the people who will disturb their plans, right.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
And so I do think that the discourse is super important,
especially when it comes to us as artists because what
we do, like all of us, we are artists at
the end of the day, and what we are putting
out there into the world. Because I always say, like
queerness is an identity, but queerness is just not white,
Like it's just not you know, like what they want
as this cookie cutter looking thing. And so like we're
(27:59):
going to be seen not just as an oddity because
of our identity, but as an oddity because of our
art because to them, they don't view art the way
we view art.
Speaker 5 (28:09):
Also your expression just like I think art itself is
another word for expression. Yes, and we all everybody, whether
or not they want to identify it as an artist,
makes artistic choices when they get up in the morning
and decide how to dress themselves, you know, for the world,
how to present.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
It's almost like even when I'm on Twitter and like
every now and then, you know, one of the girl's
a you know, pull out their meat show they cheeks
and it's funny because and it's like like this and
not like just a like just like a regular you know,
one of the regular dege girls. It's just like, you
know what I'm gonna put it out on front street,
and I have to realize, like.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Do we condemn nudity? Like what is that shameful thing?
Speaker 4 (28:48):
What is that thing that makes me even Like if
I see like a friend post a news like oh girl,
and it's like, but why should that fear be there?
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Right?
Speaker 4 (28:56):
Like it's just so interesting because at the end of
the day, it's like, Okay, it's just a naked body, right,
Like that's it at the end of the day. Now
I understand because clearly the apps don't have enough controls
over who's an adults, a child who could be the stuff,
who can't do the stuff. But I also grew up
where pornography was on the internet, right, and so it's
like my book is literally getting condemned for being pornography.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
And I'm like, but they could just go to Google,
Like yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
They could, they don't.
Speaker 5 (29:20):
You don't even have to go to Google, Like, girl,
you're you'll get air drop some ship because you have
your phone on in class literal.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
So it's just like I'm even learning more about like
the freedom of expression, right, and like how people have
the right to express themselves how they want to, you know,
express themselves. Like, and I understand like the controls and
everything that that may need to be in place for that,
because again, these apps aren't the best when it comes
to age variation.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Yeah, I kind of don't though.
Speaker 5 (29:48):
That's that's the second part is I don't even agree
about this absurd idea of trying to censor things based
on whether or not children might have access to it,
because you named it itself the children and have access
to everything. We're raising a generation to work way more
cohesively with technology. Then we have the the idea of
(30:10):
how to function in right, and we're being upset that
kids at like five years old already know what a
gender identity is. Like, give me a fucking break. They've
seen enough porn and blood and murder and giggles and
shark songs and whatever else the Internet has decided to
feed them in the three seconds. And I know that
(30:31):
because I was on the early Internet, which was country
as shit, and I still found porn.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
I mean that's why I was like, I mean I
remember hooking up the dial up Internet and like immediately
knowing where to go message board, yeah, like everything to
access the things that I wanted to see as a kid.
And so it's like, there's this. It's so interesting that
there is this. I think when adults come in and
sort of at that layer of sexualization kind of like
(31:00):
writ something that it is not. It's like it doesn't
have to be discussed or looked at through this lens.
It's only you creating your kind of putting your trauma
and putting your things on this and creating this level
of bias that we're seeing.
Speaker 5 (31:14):
Well, And honestly, it's extra interesting right now because we
have and I know we've already said the name like
three times, but I think this is a good time
to like just conjure the wish. This is why it's
particularly interesting to see all that's going on with lil
Na's X who you know, drugs or no drugs? Girl,
Seeing him walk around naked at like four am feels like,
(31:39):
call me crazy, but an expression of freedom to me, Like, yeah,
obviously there's some shit that could be going better. But
my favorite part about the queer experience is that it
is about defining your life through freedom, through taking back
liberties that the world doesn't want to give you. And yeah,
it came from like a big ass gay ass camp
(31:59):
out last weekend and I legitimately had a hard time
like adjusting back into being a person who puts on
clothes to please other people.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yeah, I did it because I got roommates.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
But well, the thing is, I feel like about the
little knives X of it all. I feel When I
initially saw the video, I was not sure what this was, right.
I wasn't sure if this was a moment of like
a potential like kind of cry for help or was
it just a publicity stud because we know the day
before he was dropping all of this new music or
(32:32):
teasing all of these things that were going on, And
so I actually what I didn't see any of the
other day. I just saw that, right, And then once
you start to really like watch it, you didn't start
to realize, well, yes, I want someone to be able
to experience a level of like their queerness and their
expression being a like a level of freedom. But then
(32:53):
I start to wonder, I'm like, well, where is like community,
Like where's your community a surrounding you that probably would
have told you, yeah, we could go out to like
you know, Black's Beaches, San Diego and do our big
new one versus going out to North Hollywood down and
like you know, walking the streets at four am, because
(33:14):
the optics of that is you, as a young black
queer person, that's just not the time to be doing that.
And obviously we've seen how even if he does, for
sure does not deserve the levels of things that he's
going through systemically right now that we're seeing. It's just
it's like there is a world, unfortunately, that we have
(33:35):
to navigate in as like these black queer folks in
the world. It's just that's what it is, unfortunately.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
And I just can't even imagine the amount of pressures
that he's under. Absolutely, you got all these eyes on you,
all these pressures, and you're like, for some kids, the
first gay pop star they've ever had to attach themselves
to to where they can feel.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Seen in the music. And you may not even feel
seen yourself.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
The pressure stems from that actually specifically, I mean you
may not even see yourself yet.
Speaker 4 (34:05):
Yes, yes, and all these people have like attached their
selves to you.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah, you still are trying to find yourself.
Speaker 5 (34:13):
You just said so much that, like I feel like
I had struggled with coming to terms with in my
own journey as like, you know, a gay black queer
doing infamously queer shit, like I don't know, it's it's
it is just strange still to see the way that
(34:34):
people do sort of attach these ideas or identities or
pressures to uphold aspects of an identity on you. How
difficult that must be for somebody that young.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
And at that level.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Like he doesn't.
Speaker 5 (34:53):
I remember there being articles about him, like admitting that
he's still on.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
The hookup apps or whatever, and people are like.
Speaker 5 (35:00):
What the fuck, Yeah, what do you mean, And it's like, girl,
he's still gotta get dig He's still a human.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
I mean, there's a whole documentary that he put out
actually as dressing his mental health and the adjustments that
it's taken to really adjust to this new life, because yeah,
it's hard to one do the things that he's already done,
but then to have the pressures of like having to
(35:26):
care about, like take care of your family and the
people around you, and then strike that same sort of
like special moment again over and over again. That gets
to you. And I think this conversation surrounding him is
just so so nuanced, and it's it's why I always
wonder and I would love to know from your perspective, George,
(35:50):
when did you learn that if you didn't really have
anything to offer a conversation, are are something a discourse
that was going on? When did you learn to just
shut the hell up? Because I quickly learned that. I
quickly learned that, and feel like so many people have not.
Speaker 4 (36:09):
Yeah, there was definitely a time where I felt I
always had to address something and then I would say
probably like probably around like the pandemic, like the inklands
of the pandemic, Like I really had to come to
the realization, like, you know what, like my best work
may be saved for a book, My best work may
(36:31):
be saved for something that's going to stand the test
of time instead of like a flashpot moment in an
article or flash by moment on Twitter. So there are
things that I sometimes may want to respond to or
may want to say something about, and I'm like, you
know what, I'm already working on a text. Let me
find a way to put it in this text so
I can long form it in a way that's more
(36:51):
healthy for me, but more preserving of this moment in
time for our community. Because it just feels like, especially nowadays,
it's like responding to some of this is just like
is this helping?
Speaker 2 (37:08):
That's like my ultimate.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Thing now for typing up something, like drafting up something
and then deleting it, Like I'm like, I do it.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
All the time just so I can get it out
of my mind.
Speaker 4 (37:19):
I have a whole bunch of drafts on Twitter that
I've never hit send on. I had an opinion, but
I just needed to say it to myself, like so
that I know, and you know, outside of that, I
amplify other people who I agree with, because it's sometimes
it's easier to be like, oh, yeah, that was a
good point, amplifying. Yeah, that was a great point. Amplify
so you know where I stand, even if I don't
(37:40):
have to say anything. But I do think that because
where some of us get when it comes to visibility,
when it comes to some of those things that we're
working on or we're doing, we do have to find
like the time to be like, is this the moment
I need to say something like, because there's a moment
where I need to say something, but that ain't every
moment that something is happening, especially because in this day
(38:02):
and age, that's what they want. They want us to
say something about, Like again, like executive orders every day,
Like what you want us to keep, you want us
to talk.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
About They're trying to tire a bit out.
Speaker 4 (38:17):
Yeah, like you want us to not be in this
fight anymore, and it's like, no, we just have to.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
But is that why fighting words? Your podcast was actually
very interesting to you because there's a more there's a
quicker way, a more thought process way where you can
control what you're putting out into the world.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
And it's not a tweet but right, and its long
form and it gets to the root of like hearing
people's actual lived experiences, like in the public eye. I
feel like part of the thing that I've learned just
from watching pop culture is the bigger you get, the
less human people see you.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
So yeah, even when we're.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
Talking about Little nives X, it's because they're talking about
him as an entity. They're not talking about him as
just simply a black queer boy who is having to
not just navigate what the normal pressures of the normal
black queer would have to but having to do it
all in front of the public eye. And so at
some point people lost sight that he was a human.
All they saw him was was a gimmick or a
(39:21):
marketing of how do you notice not his real live beliefs.
You don't know this first, and the stuff he's putting
out might be what is actually makes him happy, but
because you all don't like it, because it's not what
you wanted, you have now judged it so badly that
he may not even like the things that make him
happy anymore because you all have told him that's not.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
What makes us happy.
Speaker 4 (39:42):
When we see it happen with so many people where
there's like there's this erasure of their humanity the larger
they get. And then because social media makes us so
interconnected now where back in the day you couldn't touch
Michael Jackson, but today I could tweet one of the
most famous people and they might respond to me.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Oh absolutely, You're actually baiting them to respond to you.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
And because we have that parasocial relationship now, I think
that's just kind of like where I'm at and where
it's like before I lose my own mental like I
don't post as much as I used to and everything,
because it was like I don't know if I want
this many followers yet I want to be ready when
that type of thing comes. But if I get caught
(40:25):
in the game of followers. You know where they say
social following is social capital. Yeah, they talk about you, right,
social capital is everything. Now do you want to get
paid per post? How many clicks you get and how
many likes you get? It was like, No, I got
to go back to my basics, be the strongest, best
version of me so that when I do go into
this world and I have all these followers, I'm very
(40:46):
sure of self, so that they can't determine who I
am moving forward.
Speaker 5 (40:50):
Judge, will you do me a favor and just like
speak all of my words for me in the future.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Oh No, But that's the reason why I love George.
And I think about what it means for, you know,
to support like our folks in our community. And I
wonder through your journey, especially all the ups and downs
and all the fights that you have gone through, has
(41:22):
community shown up for you in the ways that you've wanted?
And how can we be better at supporting and showing
up for not just you before each other in these moments.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
Yeah, I think we've done like we've done an okay job.
I think part of the problem comes like when people
don't connect the dots of like when oppression shows up
at their front doors, like, as long as it shows
up at your door, then I might be okay with
not without saying something about it showing up at your door.
(41:54):
And I remember it was that don't Say Gay Bill
for me and Florida. That was like the litmus test
for black community. And I was like, if.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Y'all allow this, and y'all double.
Speaker 4 (42:05):
Down on some of y'all's own homophobia and transphobia, it's
in queer phobia. It's going to eventually get to you.
And after they were able to get that don't Say
Gay Bill passed and you know, decimate, you know, rights
of all these queer people, the next thing inside of
his mouth was slavery had benefits. And now y'all are
all up in arms. But I'm like, again, they never
(42:27):
just stopped at one group.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
They were going. They were always coming for y'all.
Speaker 4 (42:31):
They were always coming for us next. And because y'all
let them decimate the group that had less let's say
power or capital or social than you did, because you
allowed it to. Now the day at your doorstep, you
looking to us to jump back in with y'all, And
it's like, but how when we knew that this was
the pathway right, and now they now you got Punkin
(42:56):
Pie literally tweeting about slavery not being so bad or
I forgot how he worded it.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
It's like it was actually pretty chill.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
However he worded it in that truth photo.
Speaker 4 (43:06):
I mean, I had never seen so many like Republicans
trying to clean that up the next day, like they
actually were like, no, wait a minute, y'all, slavery was bad,
Like ye had actual Republics going TV like wait, wait, wait,
slavery was every.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
Bad and that wasn't the first like attack, like try
to rewriting of it, like revision his history for slight
it was bad. The biggest loser girl Jillian Michaels or
what aw yes.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
Which again it started with her, and because it got allowed,
he then yeah says it. And then now they're all like,
whoa wait a minute, jump the shark a little bit
on that one.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
I know you didn't because that is how some of
y'all feel.
Speaker 4 (43:43):
But at the same time, we only get to that
place when you allow other groups to be harmed first
that you didn't speak up for. And so I think
that's the part where I want four people to show
up better. I remember my mother and my two aunts
went to the school board meeting and it went viral
because they got my book kept on the shelf.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
It's a sad thing when people have decided that the
banning of books, which has not killed a single student,
is more important than the banning of guns.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
But here we are.
Speaker 4 (44:12):
The biggest surprise to me was everybody quote tweeting it
saying like, wow, this is kind of like one of
the first times we see like actual parents of a
queer person supporting them publicly.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
That never even dawned on.
Speaker 4 (44:25):
Me about that because they've always supported me, so that
was my normal and then you realize that's not most
of our normals. And I knew it wasn't, but it
was like to see it in real time, like that
be the main comment. That's when I was like, Yeah,
we just have to do a better job across community
of showing up for each other.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Yeah, we can't just be like, well, y'all chose this.
Speaker 4 (44:45):
So we go in the brunch like I get the
sentiment because we tired, but like we still got work
to do and we just got to show up better
for each other.
Speaker 5 (44:53):
And that's why I keep my dad on my payroll.
Anytime business is low, I'm like, take your shirt off, bitch.
But my fans are thirsty. They need to see some good, sexy,
supportive parents.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
That's what Snoop Dog's afraid of, picking out your parents.
Speaker 4 (45:15):
Right, And that's the realty, and that's.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
The story underneath the story.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
That's the actual thing. George. We love to ask everyone
that comes on this show, what are you high key about?
Speaker 4 (45:29):
I have to just like lean in on like optimism
and were But I think what I'm high key about
is if history does continue to repeat itself, then every
hundred years or so, America goes through this particular type
of period. So it's like, what was it like nineteen
(45:51):
twenty four, I've around a Great Depression and like Jim
Crow and you know, right, and we're kind of watching
that play out for us, right, But eighteen twenty four
was like the rise of chattel slavery, and then by
eighteen sixty three you have the Emancipation Proclamation. So if
you look at nineteen twenty four, you had like the
Great Depression all of the stuff like Jim Crow, but
(46:13):
then by like say the age, you get the civil
rights tack right, So it's like I feel like this
is our period, right, So it's like, if we just
look at history, we've always resisted. It's not easy and
it's not fair, but I have to just lean in
on the optimism of since we've been here before, when
we have the blueprint that we can fight this. It's
not gonna be easy, because it's just not, but we
(46:35):
got to keep fighting. And so I think I'm high
key about maybe some of the leaders are that come
out of this and maybe, you know, just the notion
that people do start to realize that, like queer people
do have the best world view on things and should
be the ones at the forefront of most of the
stuff because we've always been at the forefront of it.
We just would never given the opportunity to fully like
(46:56):
take it in our hands. And I think we are
watching that kind of start to happen again, and I
think that is what I'm high keyed about, is that
we know what we need to do and now we
just got to do it.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful. Uh, George, Well, thank you for
hanging out with us. Seriously, you are so so smart.
We touched on a lot of different things in this conversation,
which I love that's a very high key conversation if
you're you really want to be honest, and I need
everyone if you are listening and you are watching this,
(47:27):
police support George's work. I mean Fighting Words, the podcasts,
I mean, All Boys Aren't Blue, The memoir absolutely beautiful.
I mean this this book has been on my coffee
table since it's dropped. I mean, it's one of my favorites.
And all your other work that is student to come,
because that's one thing. Anytime I see George in person,
they're like child. I just I'm writing seventeen more books.
(47:49):
I'm like it down, put your computer away.
Speaker 4 (47:53):
New book out December second, since we hear there's always
next year. Drops December second, and we got some big
surprises that that we're coming.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
So that's so exciting. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Okay, So I my high key has to actually do
with like this overar like arching topic that we've talked about,
which is how many, if you honestly should have played
a drinking game, how many times did we take a shot?
Every time we said discourse this course but wasted, everyone's
wasted listening to this. But actually I really want to
talk about how I was high key obsessed with the
(48:36):
truth about Jesse Smollett, the Netflix documentary that details everything
that happened back in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 7 (48:43):
January twenty ninth, twenty nineteen, police were called to an incident.
They seen an actor called Jesse Smollett with a news
surround his neck. He says that he was the victim
of a hate crime.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Now, Jesse Smollette's name is basically a verb, and you say,
and he is like, oh, that person's lying. Well. That
documentary literally was so crazy because I don't really watch
true crime docs and I just decided to you know,
of course this is of some interest to me. I
don't know how it's going to go. And then I
(49:15):
was really interested when I saw Justse was actually participating
in the documentary himself, like he is detailing every single
thing that actually happened that night, same story, sticking to it.
There's some reenactments, which was kind of deeply unserious, like
there's an entertainment level to this documentary where I was like,
are y'all for real right now? But also like I
(49:38):
get what they're trying to do, but I guess I'm
I was high key at the end of it, just
a little big question mark. I don't even I was
confused because I always wonder what is the point of
this sort of documentary, especially this particular subject where so
many people either align one way. They either say that
(49:58):
Justse lied or they say that actually the Chicago PD
is scamming, and they created this whole narrative which in
the documentary not even like a spoiler alert, but like
in the documentary there is some pivotal information towards the
end that I would recommend everyone sticking around and watching,
because I think I saw a lot of the I
(50:20):
saw a lot of the commentary around it, being like
I stopped watching halfway through. Well, bitch, just like you
know Untucked, you only get in half the story to
do that, Like it's some really interesting, juicy stuff that
comes out of that and really made me want to,
I don't know, maybe have Jesse on the show for
us to like just talk up about like why he
(50:42):
even decided to do that documentary, which I guess is
because he feels like that's just going to clear it
up and that's the last thing he had to say.
I mean, they even had the former chief of the
Chicago Police department. He was a part of it that
was actually a part of the entire thing. Like everyone
in their mama was a part of this that were
a part of it.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Got to say their own piece and stuff.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
Well, even the brothers were a part of the ones
that were a part of that whole thing. And so
it's just really interesting. I don't know if it necessarily
will make you. I don't know if it will make
you more confused or feel more settled. For me, it
actually made me feel more settled, which is very interesting.
So I'm kind of high key obsessed with I might
watch it again if one.
Speaker 5 (51:23):
Honest I was gonna say, I kind of like documentaries
like that specifically because I think it addresses more clearly
the kind of ways that society deals with the idea.
Speaker 1 (51:35):
Of reality and absolutely.
Speaker 5 (51:38):
Like there's no such thing as one singular truth anymore,
and I think to give the best perspective on anything
that happened, you need to include all the different pieces
of it, even if at the end it lets you
like it leaves you saying like, oh so nobody knows
(51:58):
what the fuck is going.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
On, which it is sort of the thing. Once I
clocked in and realized how deeply unseerious.
Speaker 3 (52:05):
It was.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
I was like, oh, okay, this is not necessarily a
documentary that is supposed to prove something. This is supposed
to be Okay, We're going to lay out all the
different side to this thing, and if you choose wherever
you want to be work. Actually, there's some people in
the documentary that I know personally. Shout out to Jared Hill.
He is a podcaster and he was a commentator. He
(52:28):
worked very closely to that film, I think, consulting on it,
and he was a talking head. And I actually really
wanted more of him to because I feel like he
would have brought in so much more of the nuance
around being a black queer person during twenty nineteen, right
before twenty twenty, all the things that were happening in
culture around that time that actually informed how we reacted
(52:51):
to the just see of it all. And so yeah,
I'm highly obsessed with that documentary. You should check it
out and at me, literally, at me if you like, hey,
are if you're confused just as much as I am,
because I would love to have someone to talk about
it with. What's your hi key?
Speaker 3 (53:06):
Right now?
Speaker 5 (53:07):
I'm high key obsessed with alien earths. It's still my everything.
She's my girly. I think there's only been like three
or maybe at the time this comes out, four episodes, yeah,
maybe three. It's just so good because they're laying this
foundation that I've never really like thought about before in
the alien movies, which is like, you know, every time
(53:30):
where we get to the beginning of a new alien movie,
it's some like bitches out in space being like, oh yes,
who We're super surprised they're aliens in space and it's
kind of curious to see this new story about what
was happening back at Earth. And also no spoilers, but
to have more than one alien, like oh little little
(53:54):
kid me is so horny at all these weird other
aliens included.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
So this is yeah, because I saw this actually it's
on Hulu and I was going to click it because
I've only I think the only alien movie that I've
seen was like the prequel one where the indigenous girl
was like like it was she was kind of the
one that would is that alien.
Speaker 2 (54:14):
I don't know, I feel like that's predator.
Speaker 3 (54:16):
That's like all or something.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
Yeah, girl, I.
Speaker 5 (54:21):
Mean alien and predators like uh touch touched tips once,
they did.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
They didn't like.
Speaker 1 (54:27):
They were sisters. But yeah, so, actually, I guess I've
never seen any alien like you know, properties so, but
I was intrigued by this one. I saw a little
ads for and I was like, ah, I should check
this out. But I just wasn't sure if it was scary.
If it's more sci fi thriller base, then I'm totally
watching it.
Speaker 3 (54:46):
Oh my god, you were so adorable. The way he
said that it was scary.
Speaker 5 (54:52):
It makes me feel so bad for the fact that
I would have lied to you and been like, no, bitch.
Speaker 3 (54:57):
It's actually a rom com.
Speaker 2 (55:00):
Alien species decides to speak.
Speaker 3 (55:03):
One needs to ask why.
Speaker 1 (55:07):
Okay, I probably would have believed you. I would have been like,
oh my god, I gotta watch work. Okay. So that's
our high Keys, that's our show for the week. Very
excited about it. But I'm what I'm actually really excited
about is next week's episode because we're doing something a
little bit different. We decided to like not have a guest,
but allow y'all to get to know us a little
(55:27):
bit more. Right.
Speaker 5 (55:29):
Yeah, So basically it's gonna be like, y'all are the
CIA wired tapping into our face times and you think
that we're gonna talk about bombs, but really we're just
talking about this bomb ass chicken dish I made last night,
that bomb ass man that that Ryan is.
Speaker 2 (55:49):
I've already said too much, too much.
Speaker 1 (55:54):
You're if you are not watching our show, if you're
just listening to what I'm telling, you're missing a great visit.
But no, seriously, I'm very excited because Evie and I
have been literally been like we are in this process.
We are getting to know each other every single moment,
and we just have questions for each other. Actually, and
like we just thought, why not make next week's episode
all about us? So yeah, so excited about it.
Speaker 5 (56:17):
Yeah, come and have a high key key with us,
and maybe we'll even I've been wanting to show you
a little bit of my roots, so maybe we'll watch
one of my audition videos for Drag Race together.
Speaker 1 (56:31):
Oh shut up, Oh my god, I just made so excited. Okay, y'all,
y'all better be back, y'all better be subscribed, y'all better
be all of the things, because you know, we love
that we're building such a beautiful community here. So like,
remember quick little moment before we wrap up, leave us.
Five star reviews on the Apple podcast Please tell us
how much you are loving Edie and I. Even if
(56:53):
you aren't make it up, we won't know you.
Speaker 3 (56:57):
Just write a comment.
Speaker 5 (56:59):
If we don't leave enough reviews on Apple Podcasts, they
won't let me out of this room and I really
have to pee my bobbles.
Speaker 1 (57:05):
Also, we are trapped and these four walls. We are trapped,
so no seriously leave us reviews. Of course, subscribe to
our Patreon over at patreon dot com, slash hike here,
follow us on our own personal sociows, and of course
follow us on Instagram and hike key here. That's the show, y'all.
We'll see you next week. Leve y'all. Bye are you?
Speaker 5 (57:28):
If you're high key obsessed with our show, take a
second to follow or subscribe so.
Speaker 2 (57:33):
You never miss an episode.
Speaker 5 (57:35):
And while you're at it, rate us drop a review
and tell your friends.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
If you want to keep the high key key going,
join us on Instagram and TikTok at high Key here,
and of course on Patreon, where we are literally dropping
all that spicy ass tea every week.
Speaker 3 (57:52):
See you there.
Speaker 1 (57:54):
Hikey is a production of iHeart Podcasts as a part
of the Outspoken Network. This show is creating and executive
produced by Ryan Mitchell, Edatley and Spoke Media.
Speaker 5 (58:02):
Our showrunner is Tyler Green. Our producers are Kelly Kolff
and Katie Alis Greer. Our video producer is Bo Delmore,
and our video editor is Luis Pania.
Speaker 2 (58:11):
Our audio engineer Sammy Sirich. Special thanks to Jenna Burnett
and Tess Ryan.
Speaker 1 (58:17):
Executive producers for Spoke Media. Our Travis Lamont Ballinger and
Aliah Tabacoli.
Speaker 5 (58:21):
Our iHeart team is Just Crime chicch and Sierra Kaiser,
and our.
Speaker 1 (58:25):
Fame music is by the one and only Kayan Hersy
and our show art is by Work by Work, with
photography by Eric Carter
Not me, just being on set by myself. Helloo security
if he knew we had ten seconds and we keep
it all of this ten seconds here too.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Oh my god, I was so rude. I was holding
in the longest p of my life. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Did you wash your hands?
Speaker 3 (00:16):
This is my home?
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Please?
Speaker 4 (00:24):
Thank you?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
What a friends. Welcome to High Key.
Speaker 5 (00:29):
I'm Ryan Mitchell and I'm Evi Oddley and today we're
getting into it with the brilliant George M. Johnson, author,
activist and all around t clocker.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Now we're talking about everything from band books to why
everyone on the Internet needs to just shut the hella.
Speaker 5 (00:45):
Plus we're spilling all that truth handy on garage sales
and whether bugs, Bunny and address really broke America.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
And of course if you want bonus content, Plus, I'm
behind the scenes Chaos and the full after party Vibe.
Join us the aptes over on Patreon, Patreon, dot com,
slash hikey.
Speaker 5 (01:04):
But first things first, let's get to the Highkey Key.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I went to this weekend or was it was it
this weekend or was it last week? What today? What
is today? Anyway? I went to go see a play
for it was like a black theater night at a
play downtown at a theater downtown at the Amerson Theater,
and I went to go see and Juliet.
Speaker 5 (01:26):
In my play, Romeo and Juliet are starclus lovers from
both to meet the tragic end.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Maybe it's not an ending at all.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
What if she wakes up and of science just meth on?
Wait and Juliet.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Okay, So it's a musical. It's a Broadway musical. But
of course this is the touring company and I knew
a little bit about it. I was. The reason why
I went is because Juliet. It's like a spin off
of like a Romeo and Juliet, like what happens to
Juliet never killed herself. Juliet is a black girl in
the play. Her name is Rachel sim Webb.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Oh wait, I feel like we talked about this.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah, and I'm very excited. I was like very like.
I went. It was I was on a date actually,
and I went and it was very cute. It was
such a good time and that show is just so
queer in all the ways. I wasn't expecting that. And
I also wasn't expecting that the like that I knew
so many Katy Perry and Pink songs because it's a
(02:20):
jukebox musical and everything is written like it's songs by
Max Martin, and so I was like, wait, why am
I singing roar? Like why do I know the lyrics
right now?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I got the eye?
Speaker 1 (02:39):
But like it was actually really good and shout out
to like the interpretation of like, you know, just when
there is a like Juliette is being black and kind
of the nuances of that. And then of course, you know,
black theater nights, even though I always kind of go
into those spaces, I've had some tragic experience or some
traumatized experiences with black theater night. I saw slave play
(03:01):
out of Black theater night, which whose fucking idea was that? Yeah,
it's like it was. It was a mess, but the
show was great and so I lived for it. How
how have you been? How was the birthday? How was
the garage sale? How was life?
Speaker 5 (03:15):
It was really really good, Like it really did take
like all of the give a fucks I've ever had
to organize and try and like be that many people
and take care of that many things.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
But like, girl, I have no clothes left. It's really hot.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
As I said, you miss anything, Like, did you were
you when people were buying this stuff? Were you like,
oh my god, Actually I kind of want to keep this.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I mean, I miss I miss everything.
Speaker 5 (03:41):
But that's why, you know, the more I missed something,
the more I realized that I was going to miss her,
the higher the price was. Bitch nicld Page Brokes showed
up at like one or two in the afternoon with
like an item that was off of my volunteer rack,
which means that I was doubling the price since you know,
somebody had already put in the sweat for me.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Of course, so.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
She grabbed my like really iconic, like really expensive fashion dress.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Really uh huh.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
She like I was just waking up, girl, Like I
was just waking into the haze of the day and
being like, okay, yeah, people are here, they're buying things.
And then I turn around and she's like how much
for this? And so I just charged her a ludicrous
price and.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Did she buy She actually bought it?
Speaker 5 (04:30):
Hell yes, especially because girl, that shit is history. So
that's like, that's what it feels like. It's really good
to know that I am not just holding on to
so much of myself and that I'm now challenged as
an artist to find enough clothes to get dressed every day.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I just think it's so interesting when like like queens
like yourself decide to like sell their stuff. I get
kind of the system that you create, where like maybe
selling it to baby queens or local queen are like
other drag race queens. And I mean we saw in
the past seasons, like past things that other queens have
like worn on the show were like repurpose and worn again.
And I just I'm like, has anyone ever thought about
(05:13):
the possibility of like maybe keeping your archives because there
will probably be a like a drag race museum one day,
and you can get so much calling from that shit.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
I mean, bitch, I've thought about that.
Speaker 5 (05:24):
That's why I was charging super super expensive prices for
all of the things that I knew would have an
impact on the culture. I think there was like one
drag race outfit I giveaway from like All Star seven,
like my spikes. Look where I was on crutches. I
mean I still have the crutches, but I gave her
away because I was I was pissed.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yeah that's real, that's actually really real. It's just yeah,
I'm happy you had a good time, and it seems
like you and Doug y'all had your like own little
you had a lot of birthday things going.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
It wasn't just it was crazy.
Speaker 5 (06:01):
We had a foursome too that lasted until like four
in the morning. I was like, okay, this was gonna
take so much energy. I'm so tired after all this,
and then some of the people who have come.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
To help us out stay behind.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
So you had you had a foursome with your volunteers.
Is that is there not an HR?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
I am the HR I had.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
I had them file out an entire consent she's beforehand, uh,
stating that they were no longer being employed by me.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Yes, Oh.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
That's kind of crazy. I mean, I'm happy you had
a fun time, and I'm happy they were able to
give you an extra little gift for your birthday.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (06:48):
But I'm honestly, I'm really excited because we have like
such a wild show today.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Girl, like I just snapped back into the real world.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
Do you wanna do you want to take some I'm
to introduce our our sleeve of course.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Oh my gosh. So I'm very excited about today's guests.
I mean, you probably know them from their best selling memoir,
All Boys Aren't Blue. I actually have it right here.
It's a coffee table book of mine. Or maybe you've
heard them on their iHeart podcasts Fighting Words, which honestly
makes them kind of like our podcast sibling when you're
really thinking about it. But I love this person. They
(07:24):
are literally so smart, absolutely genius and like the list
of things just goes on and on and on. But
I'm happy that they're joining us for a little hang
and a little key. So please welcome Rider Activists and
all around icon George and Johnson.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
Hi George, Yes, yes, we hear you, We see you,
y'all are ricky.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Thank you for letting mend your home.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
I don't know, you might need to clean it and
maybe wash off things.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Oh yeah between the bathroom and the fourth.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Do you see what I have to deal with?
Speaker 6 (08:09):
So so.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yes, yes, I mean I knew of George from like
the Twitter days, when like Twitter was actually like a
place where you, like you could actually, like Loki, kind
of make a career off of like being someone that
has something to say, it has something valuable to say,
My need to add and so it's it's so interesting
(08:36):
to see how those pieces have like connected to your
writing on bylines and then connecting to you being an
author and all of the plentyful of things that have
like come out of your career at this point. But
I I guess anytime I think about you, I think
about this course, you know what I mean, and kind
of how that impacts us culturally. So like, what's the
(09:00):
thing you saw on the Internet that gave you the ick?
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Well, I mean the the Pumpkin face man is on
the Internet every day, so unfortunately I am icked every
time he sits in front of a camera and rambles
for forty eight minutes. I guess his rambling time is
like it usually runs between like forty eight minutes and
an hour and three minutes.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Which who's listening to that?
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Because no one's even listening at this point. It's just
like the rambles are just ridiculous. I think today Today's
it was the executive order that was like something that's
already in the constitution about like flag burning, and I
was just like, okay, like.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
I feel bad, that's terrible.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
I like, legit don't even process that that is like
a part of the Internet mark anymore because it's just there.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
I think part of it is like because I always say,
like I guess with like being a journalist, I'll always
be a journalist, whether I'm riding bylines or not. So
I'm still tuned in into like certain things, and then
like there are certain things that are like, Okay, I
need to go online and break this really large topic down,
like when they're doing terrorists or taxes and things that
people may not understand to really get it out there.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
And then you get stupid shit like flag.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Burning as an executive order, and it's like like like actually,
for real, like with everything going.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Like actually, it's back to back these things where I, yeah,
I've kind of if I'm being gold honest, I have
kind of disconnected, especially since my daytime television is kind
of on hiatus as it's the summer break. I have
completely disconnected from a lot of like the larger political
things that are going on because I have just been
worn out, like there's just it's it's one thing after
(10:48):
the other. And then I was talking to a friend
about this of how the expectations in our actual everyday
lives nothing is being supplemented by the stress of being
like hit upside our heads with all of this news
that is coming in and then just being expected that
life is going to like has to continue and we
(11:09):
can't do anything about it. Right there is no there's
no middle ground right now, there's no way of us
like escape it.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
I compare it to like when I used to have
a like work in higher ed or corporate America.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
I compare it to like America.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
To me, really rest upon the notion of how you
only get three days of bereavement if your parent dies.
I always thought about like that, like that that like, oh,
well you get three days bereavement, and if you've got
a really good job, you might get five. And it's like,
so just so we're clear the way that this country
(11:49):
is set up because of capitalism, the total disregard of
someone's mental health and all these things, is that if
my parent passes away, I got a three days to
figure it out before I have to come back in
a year and deal with this plus distressors of life.
And I've always felt like bereavement was like, in my opinion,
like really indicative of America and just how it just
(12:10):
really relies upon death, the way it relies upon you
not processing it fast enough. It's like millions of people
were lost to COVID, and the best thing they could
do was, like we got to get back outside. People
still are losing their lives every day because all these
new policies and things, but it's like it's so much
happening that, like death has just become so normalized that
(12:31):
we just kind of bypass it and it's like, oh, yeah,
rest in peace. Yeah, like one of the greatest let's say,
artists or something in history, and within twenty four to
forty eight hours we have moved on to something else.
And I think that's kind of like the state of
where I'm at right now is like trying to almost
be like better at helping other people process grief because
(12:54):
I think a lot of us are just grieving and
because there is no real outlet for it, it's like
we're just filling it with whatever we can to survive,
which is a scary place to be.
Speaker 5 (13:06):
Yeah, I mean, I feel like it's interesting that you
bring that up, because you know, even outside of the
very scary, looming, impossible contexts of death, Like, I feel
like a good way that people really have been getting
out that sort of grief is through the ability to
(13:27):
have discourse about all the different griefs we're experiencing, Like
social media has given us this place where you're expected
to perform grief about big things, about small things. Like
my favorite is like the Christian girl Autumn Girl.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
I'm not going to be able to post fall videos
this year.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
It's just a lot of pressure.
Speaker 5 (13:57):
I don't care if it's real or fake or not.
That's like my favorite that I've seen is her being.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Like, oh, it's so hard to make a pumpskin spice
Lotte picture.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
It's like, actually, it was a legit grief, and like
there was a part of me that like my eyes
got wet for her.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
You were like I actually had a sense of empathy
for the fact that you just are exhausted from being
this like a fall queen.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
And it's funny because I think it talks about we
all live on different sides of the internet. Because when
I first saw the video, I was like, what the
fuck is an Autumn girl? I was like, I have
never even heard of this, and like I just always knew,
Like the running joke was always like about pumpkin spiced items. Yeah,
show up during September and October. You know, I'm a
(14:44):
sweet potato pie girl. So I'm not eating nothing with
a pumpkin with it, so like it always bypassed me.
Now I do like a little yeah, take take a
piece of my card away.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
I do like beer that has pumpkins by saying.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Right now, oh absolutely not absolutely.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Now, I could do a beer like an october Fest
beerd it has like a seasonal blend out, which just
apple cider.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Okay, apple cider.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
What in the day? Then?
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Why?
Speaker 7 (15:12):
Now?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Why are you drinking beer? I say, beer is not
meant for non binary people?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Why am I drinking beer?
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Right?
Speaker 4 (15:18):
But that lady, well everything. I was like, what the
hell is an autumn? I was like, did I just
miss this whole part of the internet.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
Well, yeah, but that's a that's a good part of
like you know, you speak about specifically death and grief
and how quickly we move on from that, But it
also has like a sped up how quickly we process everything.
Everything is like a micro trend. Everything is a moment,
(15:46):
and I kind of feel like that's one of the
things that's stopped us as a culture from having like
like actual discussions with each other. You know, I've started
saving the things that I would type on Twitter because
it would be funny and cute. I've started saving those
for my in person interactions because I can deliver like
(16:11):
how ridiculous life is in even the most like serious
of reading.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Well, and that's the thing for me where it's like
I exist actually on so many different parts of the
Internet right, like because my interests are expansive, like I
knew about, you know, Autumn girl with her uggs and
her pumpkin spice lattes. But then I'm also in like
black queer community business where everyone has a thought process
(16:37):
around little knives x and like the Laverne Cox apiece,
and like it starts to become a little overwhelming because
I just remember those early days of you being on Twitter, George.
I've always wondered, I guess, what do you think made
people pay attention to your voice? So early on?
Speaker 2 (16:57):
What made people pay attention?
Speaker 4 (17:00):
And I think to my voice was some of us
were the source of other people's commentary, other people that
you would listen to, and I think that people then
were coming to some of us as like root source,
like well, where did this idea come from? Because I
(17:20):
always say, like most ideas And I was just talking
with mikel Street about this and Michael Roberson about this,
how like it's always the smallest parts of queer community
that create everything that goes out to the world.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
It reminds me.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
Of like the Devil Wears product, where she's like, yes,
I picked this cerulean expensive bel so that you could
go in a bucket and pick out that ugly blue
looking sweater.
Speaker 6 (17:43):
However, that blue represents millions of dollars and countless jobs.
And it's sort of comical how you think that you've
made a choice that exempts you from the fashion industry,
when in fact, you're wearing a sweater that was selected
for you by the people in this room.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Yeah, it started from a very small room with small people,
and I feel like, whether it's drag, whether it's ballroom,
whether it's the king community, like, it's always from like
the smallest pockets of community where the largest ideas go out.
And so I feel that at some point people started
to want more of like source, who's the source of this?
And so I think you had a lot of people
(18:20):
who amplified me, who I'm grateful for. Like some of
the first people who really amplified my tweets were Gabrielle
Union and Zendeia.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah, when I was really like.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
Tweeting an Anita Baker, like she would share all of
my articles I was writing, right, And so it was
like you had people who were trusted voices to the masses,
and that's going to be, you know, for several reasons,
but primarily like people are like, Ooh, I love what
George would say, or I love what Ryan said, I
love what the queer folks are saying. I just wish
it was coming from a straight person, because I could
(18:52):
be led by a straight person. I don't know if
I could be led by a George. I don't know
if i'd be led by a r you know. And
so I think I take that the optics of it,
and it just was interesting because I was saying the
things that needed to be said, and I'm just grateful
that there were people who shared it to the masses
and the way they did, or else it probably would
have never gotten to them because it's hard to get
(19:15):
a heterosexual black man to take what I'm saying, even
if they know that it's true.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
It's like, I just can't take it from you. And
so I think that's really how that happened.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
But I think now we all can really understand that.
It's like it is the people like us who do
these things that then permeate through our community and other communities,
whether they know it or not. It's always like the
butterfly fact. It's like somebody did something that you may
not even know that they did. They gave you this
opportunity down the road, but it had to start with
a person who may not even be here.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
I mean, honestly, that's something I've.
Speaker 5 (19:51):
Been contemplating a lot recently, specifically because I love rap,
and so I've seen this like integration recently in rap
music of clocking tea and spilling tea, and I'm like, y'all.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Are so faggy and you don't even know.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
It's actually quite annoying. Every time I see a straight
man like do the fingertap on the wrong finger, it
actually will continue to irk me because it's just another
example of the ways that this language just continues to
get co opted from our experiences.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
And some of us have been here long enough. And
I think that's the other t right, I think some
of us have just been here long enough to remember
how we got here. Right Like, even with we're talking
about rap, it's like, well, there was a term and
it was called metrosexual, and it was so them straight
men could invest in grooming.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
And just feeling, like just emotional feeling.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Straight men were the first.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Literally right able to be emotion right.
Speaker 5 (20:56):
Like.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
It was this whole trend and it was built around
like once like jay Z you know, stopped with the
white teas and started with the business suits and then
Puppy comes out with uh whatever seawan John as a
brand and like, but they were into grooming and they
were into all of these different things that everybody was
already like, Wait, isn't that like queer if you do that,
if you get a manicure in your stren isn't that that?
(21:18):
And then again they created their own term. Romance was
another one of the terms that gave me itck because
it was like, you, we don't have to create a
new term for something that already exists.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah, are just simply liking someone.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I can be hugging your friend like you can hug.
Speaker 5 (21:33):
You, but it's like extra interesting like for me specifically
hearing like clocking that tea or like spilling this tea,
and like in otherwise, uh in a culture that otherwise
like just is dying to call me a faggot because
of things like, you know, not only all the drama
that's happened with Lil nas X, but also, in my opinion,
(21:56):
small things with Snoop Dogg being like, yeah, man, I
can't even go to the movies anymore without seeing seeing
some gay shit on my screen.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
And I'm terrified. They just said she and she had
a baby.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
They both women.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
How does she have a baby.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
So it's like, I'm scared to go to the movies. Then,
like y'all throwing me in the.
Speaker 5 (22:12):
Middle of I don't have an answer for and I'm like, yeah,
but that's always been the case.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
I'm just glad people are saying that.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
But you was a certified pimp, So I'm just confused
at howld you missed that lesbians exist in all the
years that you was running around as a certified pimp,
Like that's what like, And I think that's when I
saw it because I just happened to see it yesterday
because I.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Was traveled back.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
This makes absolutely no sense, Like to come from a
person like you who whole career your first album was
called Doggy Style, so you must know something about sex
and gender and identity and how sex works and who
was having sex.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
So like to pretend now at your big age that
like this.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
Is so offensive when you were publicly it'd be number
one for white people for overt sexuality in your treatment
of women.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
It's just insanity.
Speaker 5 (23:06):
I mean, I just I do feel bad for him
because he probably has to deal with it in his
work environment too. You know, when he goes on to
the voice to do his jazzy little songs out of pitch,
he has to have a little faggot in his dressing
room like touching up his makeup, and it probably gets
him so hard.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
No, fuck him. I'm sorry. I just want to say
that because I think.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
I'm so sure that it is so hard to show
up to work with the story.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah, and I think it is one. I'm assuming the
child or whoever he was with that was the impetus
when they were watching that film and they saw this
like queer animated character. I'm sure that person that he
was with has heard and been subjected to his lifestyle
and way worse things than seeing two lesbians on light
(23:55):
Year in a Disney film versus like him going somewhere.
So it's like it's it just feels it's annoying when
something like that happens, and then the headlines are like
are out there, And then of course that creates this
level of conversation where everyone in their mama has decided
to like put in their two cents around this, around
(24:18):
what's acceptible and what's you know, should this stuff be
in media and television? All these things? It's so annoying.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Bugs Bunny been cross dressed and since nineteen six, like
the Looney tune, like what are we talking about? Like
bugs Bunny has been in heels, in address in lipsticks
since the sixties.
Speaker 6 (24:37):
Oh how simply dreadful?
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Did I hook you with my naughty gun?
Speaker 4 (24:44):
And like we are like pretending that like two queer
characters on screen is like some new phenomenon. And I'm like,
I'm sitting here like yo, I wrote about the first
time I heard about the word lesbian, I was watching
Murphy Brown with my mother. So this had to be
like ninety four when learn who lesbian was, so in
twenty twenty five to be like, uh, like Ellen came out.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
On TV how many years ago? And we are that too?
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Queer characters on the cartoon This is this bigg issue
but I think what it talks too bigger is just
how conservatism has taken like such a stranglehold on even
those who you thought, you know, who clearly didn't practice
their whole life being seen as conservative, right, Like you're
(25:29):
in rap that was seen as a radical act against
the police and against so many things, like you almost
went to jail for murder, like you like you know,
like like you live a life, and so it's like
for this to be like the thing that offends you
when you were best friends with should Night. I'm just like, Okay,
how conservative are we gonna go?
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Now? Does discourse actually move the needle or does it
just to the noise? Like is there a moment where
discourse is actually like important for a cause?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yes, discourse is important.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
It's like, I guess when it comes to me, it's interesting,
right because it's like I remember when the book band started,
and I remember like getting you know, banned in all
these places, and I was like, oh, this is interesting, right, Like.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Which that the discourse from that actually is what kind
of blew your book up.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
It did in a in a in a way that
it would have never been before. And then like I start,
you know, speaking out like I normally do because I'm
gonna say something, and then I get criminal complaints against me,
and I'm like, wait, I didn't even know you could
take a book to a sheriff's office and follow criminal
charge against a book. So we all are learning now,
we're all learning, you know, So we're all learning, you
(26:49):
US civics in real time because we're like, oh, you
can actually take a book to a shaff's okay, So
we learn and how the law works. But I think
for me, the big, the most pivotal moment was when
Senator can Unity read the book out loud at a
Senate Judiciary hearing. That's when I really realized, like how
Tony Morrisons is always like art is like the strongest
thing that we have against fascism, like point blank and period.
(27:11):
And she was like, you will notice it once they
start to try and ban art, they start to try
and demonize art, they try.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
She was like, there's a reason they go after art.
Speaker 8 (27:19):
The history of art has always been bloody because dictators
and people in office and people who want to control
and deceive know exactly the people who will disturb their plans, right.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
And so I do think that the discourse is super important,
especially when it comes to us as artists because what
we do, like all of us, we are artists at
the end of the day, and what we are putting
out there into the world. Because I always say, like
queerness is an identity, but queerness is just not white,
Like it's just not you know, like what they want
as this cookie cutter looking thing. And so like we're
(27:59):
going to be seen not just as an oddity because
of our identity, but as an oddity because of our
art because to them, they don't view art the way
we view art.
Speaker 5 (28:09):
Also your expression just like I think art itself is
another word for expression. Yes, and we all everybody, whether
or not they want to identify it as an artist,
makes artistic choices when they get up in the morning
and decide how to dress themselves, you know, for the world,
how to present.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
It's almost like even when I'm on Twitter and like
every now and then, you know, one of the girl's
a you know, pull out their meat show they cheeks
and it's funny because and it's like like this and
not like just a like just like a regular you know,
one of the regular dege girls. It's just like, you
know what I'm gonna put it out on front street,
and I have to realize, like.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Do we condemn nudity? Like what is that shameful thing?
Speaker 4 (28:48):
What is that thing that makes me even Like if
I see like a friend post a news like oh girl,
and it's like, but why should that fear be there?
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Right?
Speaker 4 (28:56):
Like it's just so interesting because at the end of
the day, it's like, Okay, it's just a naked body, right,
Like that's it at the end of the day. Now
I understand because clearly the apps don't have enough controls
over who's an adults, a child who could be the stuff,
who can't do the stuff. But I also grew up
where pornography was on the internet, right, and so it's
like my book is literally getting condemned for being pornography.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
And I'm like, but they could just go to Google,
Like yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
They could, they don't.
Speaker 5 (29:20):
You don't even have to go to Google, Like, girl,
you're you'll get air drop some ship because you have
your phone on in class literal.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
So it's just like I'm even learning more about like
the freedom of expression, right, and like how people have
the right to express themselves how they want to, you know,
express themselves. Like, and I understand like the controls and
everything that that may need to be in place for that,
because again, these apps aren't the best when it comes
to age variation.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Yeah, I kind of don't though.
Speaker 5 (29:48):
That's that's the second part is I don't even agree
about this absurd idea of trying to censor things based
on whether or not children might have access to it,
because you named it itself the children and have access
to everything. We're raising a generation to work way more
cohesively with technology. Then we have the the idea of
(30:10):
how to function in right, and we're being upset that
kids at like five years old already know what a
gender identity is. Like, give me a fucking break. They've
seen enough porn and blood and murder and giggles and
shark songs and whatever else the Internet has decided to
feed them in the three seconds. And I know that
(30:31):
because I was on the early Internet, which was country
as shit, and I still found porn.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
I mean that's why I was like, I mean I
remember hooking up the dial up Internet and like immediately
knowing where to go message board, yeah, like everything to
access the things that I wanted to see as a kid.
And so it's like, there's this. It's so interesting that
there is this. I think when adults come in and
sort of at that layer of sexualization kind of like
(31:00):
writ something that it is not. It's like it doesn't
have to be discussed or looked at through this lens.
It's only you creating your kind of putting your trauma
and putting your things on this and creating this level
of bias that we're seeing.
Speaker 5 (31:14):
Well, And honestly, it's extra interesting right now because we
have and I know we've already said the name like
three times, but I think this is a good time
to like just conjure the wish. This is why it's
particularly interesting to see all that's going on with lil
Na's X who you know, drugs or no drugs? Girl,
Seeing him walk around naked at like four am feels like,
(31:39):
call me crazy, but an expression of freedom to me, Like, yeah,
obviously there's some shit that could be going better. But
my favorite part about the queer experience is that it
is about defining your life through freedom, through taking back
liberties that the world doesn't want to give you. And yeah,
it came from like a big ass gay ass camp
(31:59):
out last weekend and I legitimately had a hard time
like adjusting back into being a person who puts on
clothes to please other people.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yeah, I did it because I got roommates.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
But well, the thing is, I feel like about the
little knives X of it all. I feel When I
initially saw the video, I was not sure what this was, right.
I wasn't sure if this was a moment of like
a potential like kind of cry for help or was
it just a publicity stud because we know the day
before he was dropping all of this new music or
(32:32):
teasing all of these things that were going on, And
so I actually what I didn't see any of the
other day. I just saw that, right, And then once
you start to really like watch it, you didn't start
to realize, well, yes, I want someone to be able
to experience a level of like their queerness and their
expression being a like a level of freedom. But then
(32:53):
I start to wonder, I'm like, well, where is like community,
Like where's your community a surrounding you that probably would
have told you, yeah, we could go out to like
you know, Black's Beaches, San Diego and do our big
new one versus going out to North Hollywood down and
like you know, walking the streets at four am, because
(33:14):
the optics of that is you, as a young black
queer person, that's just not the time to be doing that.
And obviously we've seen how even if he does, for
sure does not deserve the levels of things that he's
going through systemically right now that we're seeing. It's just
it's like there is a world, unfortunately, that we have
(33:35):
to navigate in as like these black queer folks in
the world. It's just that's what it is, unfortunately.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
And I just can't even imagine the amount of pressures
that he's under. Absolutely, you got all these eyes on you,
all these pressures, and you're like, for some kids, the
first gay pop star they've ever had to attach themselves
to to where they can feel.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Seen in the music. And you may not even feel
seen yourself.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
The pressure stems from that actually specifically, I mean you
may not even see yourself yet.
Speaker 4 (34:05):
Yes, yes, and all these people have like attached their
selves to you.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah, you still are trying to find yourself.
Speaker 5 (34:13):
You just said so much that, like I feel like
I had struggled with coming to terms with in my
own journey as like, you know, a gay black queer
doing infamously queer shit, like I don't know, it's it's
it is just strange still to see the way that
(34:34):
people do sort of attach these ideas or identities or
pressures to uphold aspects of an identity on you. How
difficult that must be for somebody that young.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
And at that level.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Like he doesn't.
Speaker 5 (34:53):
I remember there being articles about him, like admitting that
he's still on.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
The hookup apps or whatever, and people are like.
Speaker 5 (35:00):
What the fuck, Yeah, what do you mean, And it's like, girl,
he's still gotta get dig He's still a human.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
I mean, there's a whole documentary that he put out
actually as dressing his mental health and the adjustments that
it's taken to really adjust to this new life, because yeah,
it's hard to one do the things that he's already done,
but then to have the pressures of like having to
(35:26):
care about, like take care of your family and the
people around you, and then strike that same sort of
like special moment again over and over again. That gets
to you. And I think this conversation surrounding him is
just so so nuanced, and it's it's why I always
wonder and I would love to know from your perspective, George,
(35:50):
when did you learn that if you didn't really have
anything to offer a conversation, are are something a discourse
that was going on? When did you learn to just
shut the hell up? Because I quickly learned that. I
quickly learned that, and feel like so many people have not.
Speaker 4 (36:09):
Yeah, there was definitely a time where I felt I
always had to address something and then I would say
probably like probably around like the pandemic, like the inklands
of the pandemic, Like I really had to come to
the realization, like, you know what, like my best work
may be saved for a book, My best work may
(36:31):
be saved for something that's going to stand the test
of time instead of like a flashpot moment in an
article or flash by moment on Twitter. So there are
things that I sometimes may want to respond to or
may want to say something about, and I'm like, you
know what, I'm already working on a text. Let me
find a way to put it in this text so
I can long form it in a way that's more
(36:51):
healthy for me, but more preserving of this moment in
time for our community. Because it just feels like, especially nowadays,
it's like responding to some of this is just like
is this helping?
Speaker 2 (37:08):
That's like my ultimate.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Thing now for typing up something, like drafting up something
and then deleting it, Like I'm like, I do it.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
All the time just so I can get it out
of my mind.
Speaker 4 (37:19):
I have a whole bunch of drafts on Twitter that
I've never hit send on. I had an opinion, but
I just needed to say it to myself, like so
that I know, and you know, outside of that, I
amplify other people who I agree with, because it's sometimes
it's easier to be like, oh, yeah, that was a
good point, amplifying. Yeah, that was a great point. Amplify
so you know where I stand, even if I don't
(37:40):
have to say anything. But I do think that because
where some of us get when it comes to visibility,
when it comes to some of those things that we're
working on or we're doing, we do have to find
like the time to be like, is this the moment
I need to say something like, because there's a moment
where I need to say something, but that ain't every
moment that something is happening, especially because in this day
(38:02):
and age, that's what they want. They want us to
say something about, Like again, like executive orders every day,
Like what you want us to keep, you want us
to talk.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
About They're trying to tire a bit out.
Speaker 4 (38:17):
Yeah, like you want us to not be in this
fight anymore, and it's like, no, we just have to.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
But is that why fighting words? Your podcast was actually
very interesting to you because there's a more there's a
quicker way, a more thought process way where you can
control what you're putting out into the world.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
And it's not a tweet but right, and its long
form and it gets to the root of like hearing
people's actual lived experiences, like in the public eye. I
feel like part of the thing that I've learned just
from watching pop culture is the bigger you get, the
less human people see you.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
So yeah, even when we're.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
Talking about Little nives X, it's because they're talking about
him as an entity. They're not talking about him as
just simply a black queer boy who is having to
not just navigate what the normal pressures of the normal
black queer would have to but having to do it
all in front of the public eye. And so at
some point people lost sight that he was a human.
All they saw him was was a gimmick or a
(39:21):
marketing of how do you notice not his real live beliefs.
You don't know this first, and the stuff he's putting
out might be what is actually makes him happy, but
because you all don't like it, because it's not what
you wanted, you have now judged it so badly that
he may not even like the things that make him
happy anymore because you all have told him that's not.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
What makes us happy.
Speaker 4 (39:42):
When we see it happen with so many people where
there's like there's this erasure of their humanity the larger
they get. And then because social media makes us so
interconnected now where back in the day you couldn't touch
Michael Jackson, but today I could tweet one of the
most famous people and they might respond to me.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Oh absolutely, You're actually baiting them to respond to you.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
And because we have that parasocial relationship now, I think
that's just kind of like where I'm at and where
it's like before I lose my own mental like I
don't post as much as I used to and everything,
because it was like I don't know if I want
this many followers yet I want to be ready when
that type of thing comes. But if I get caught
(40:25):
in the game of followers. You know where they say
social following is social capital. Yeah, they talk about you, right,
social capital is everything. Now do you want to get
paid per post? How many clicks you get and how
many likes you get? It was like, No, I got
to go back to my basics, be the strongest, best
version of me so that when I do go into
this world and I have all these followers, I'm very
(40:46):
sure of self, so that they can't determine who I
am moving forward.
Speaker 5 (40:50):
Judge, will you do me a favor and just like
speak all of my words for me in the future.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Oh No, But that's the reason why I love George.
And I think about what it means for, you know,
to support like our folks in our community. And I
wonder through your journey, especially all the ups and downs
and all the fights that you have gone through, has
(41:22):
community shown up for you in the ways that you've wanted?
And how can we be better at supporting and showing
up for not just you before each other in these moments.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
Yeah, I think we've done like we've done an okay job.
I think part of the problem comes like when people
don't connect the dots of like when oppression shows up
at their front doors, like, as long as it shows
up at your door, then I might be okay with
not without saying something about it showing up at your door.
(41:54):
And I remember it was that don't Say Gay Bill
for me and Florida. That was like the litmus test
for black community. And I was like, if.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Y'all allow this, and y'all double.
Speaker 4 (42:05):
Down on some of y'all's own homophobia and transphobia, it's
in queer phobia. It's going to eventually get to you.
And after they were able to get that don't Say
Gay Bill passed and you know, decimate, you know, rights
of all these queer people, the next thing inside of
his mouth was slavery had benefits. And now y'all are
all up in arms. But I'm like, again, they never
(42:27):
just stopped at one group.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
They were going. They were always coming for y'all.
Speaker 4 (42:31):
They were always coming for us next. And because y'all
let them decimate the group that had less let's say
power or capital or social than you did, because you
allowed it to. Now the day at your doorstep, you
looking to us to jump back in with y'all, And
it's like, but how when we knew that this was
the pathway right, and now they now you got Punkin
(42:56):
Pie literally tweeting about slavery not being so bad or
I forgot how he worded it.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
It's like it was actually pretty chill.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
However he worded it in that truth photo.
Speaker 4 (43:06):
I mean, I had never seen so many like Republicans
trying to clean that up the next day, like they
actually were like, no, wait a minute, y'all, slavery was bad,
Like ye had actual Republics going TV like wait, wait, wait,
slavery was every.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
Bad and that wasn't the first like attack, like try
to rewriting of it, like revision his history for slight
it was bad. The biggest loser girl Jillian Michaels or
what aw yes.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
Which again it started with her, and because it got allowed,
he then yeah says it. And then now they're all like,
whoa wait a minute, jump the shark a little bit
on that one.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
I know you didn't because that is how some of
y'all feel.
Speaker 4 (43:43):
But at the same time, we only get to that
place when you allow other groups to be harmed first
that you didn't speak up for. And so I think
that's the part where I want four people to show
up better. I remember my mother and my two aunts
went to the school board meeting and it went viral
because they got my book kept on the shelf.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
It's a sad thing when people have decided that the
banning of books, which has not killed a single student,
is more important than the banning of guns.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
But here we are.
Speaker 4 (44:12):
The biggest surprise to me was everybody quote tweeting it
saying like, wow, this is kind of like one of
the first times we see like actual parents of a
queer person supporting them publicly.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
That never even dawned on.
Speaker 4 (44:25):
Me about that because they've always supported me, so that
was my normal and then you realize that's not most
of our normals. And I knew it wasn't, but it
was like to see it in real time, like that
be the main comment. That's when I was like, Yeah,
we just have to do a better job across community
of showing up for each other.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Yeah, we can't just be like, well, y'all chose this.
Speaker 4 (44:45):
So we go in the brunch like I get the
sentiment because we tired, but like we still got work
to do and we just got to show up better
for each other.
Speaker 5 (44:53):
And that's why I keep my dad on my payroll.
Anytime business is low, I'm like, take your shirt off, bitch.
But my fans are thirsty. They need to see some good, sexy,
supportive parents.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
That's what Snoop Dog's afraid of, picking out your parents.
Speaker 4 (45:15):
Right, And that's the realty, and that's.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
The story underneath the story.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
That's the actual thing. George. We love to ask everyone
that comes on this show, what are you high key about?
Speaker 4 (45:29):
I have to just like lean in on like optimism
and were But I think what I'm high key about
is if history does continue to repeat itself, then every
hundred years or so, America goes through this particular type
of period. So it's like, what was it like nineteen
(45:51):
twenty four, I've around a Great Depression and like Jim
Crow and you know, right, and we're kind of watching
that play out for us, right, But eighteen twenty four
was like the rise of chattel slavery, and then by
eighteen sixty three you have the Emancipation Proclamation. So if
you look at nineteen twenty four, you had like the
Great Depression all of the stuff like Jim Crow, but
(46:13):
then by like say the age, you get the civil
rights tack right, So it's like I feel like this
is our period, right, So it's like, if we just
look at history, we've always resisted. It's not easy and
it's not fair, but I have to just lean in
on the optimism of since we've been here before, when
we have the blueprint that we can fight this. It's
not gonna be easy, because it's just not, but we
(46:35):
got to keep fighting. And so I think I'm high
key about maybe some of the leaders are that come
out of this and maybe, you know, just the notion
that people do start to realize that, like queer people
do have the best world view on things and should
be the ones at the forefront of most of the
stuff because we've always been at the forefront of it.
We just would never given the opportunity to fully like
(46:56):
take it in our hands. And I think we are
watching that kind of start to happen again, and I
think that is what I'm high keyed about, is that
we know what we need to do and now we
just got to do it.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful. Uh, George, Well, thank you for
hanging out with us. Seriously, you are so so smart.
We touched on a lot of different things in this conversation,
which I love that's a very high key conversation if
you're you really want to be honest, and I need
everyone if you are listening and you are watching this,
(47:27):
police support George's work. I mean Fighting Words, the podcasts,
I mean, All Boys Aren't Blue, The memoir absolutely beautiful.
I mean this this book has been on my coffee
table since it's dropped. I mean, it's one of my favorites.
And all your other work that is student to come,
because that's one thing. Anytime I see George in person,
they're like child. I just I'm writing seventeen more books.
(47:49):
I'm like it down, put your computer away.
Speaker 4 (47:53):
New book out December second, since we hear there's always
next year. Drops December second, and we got some big
surprises that that we're coming.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
So that's so exciting. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Okay, So I my high key has to actually do
with like this overar like arching topic that we've talked about,
which is how many, if you honestly should have played
a drinking game, how many times did we take a shot?
Every time we said discourse this course but wasted, everyone's
wasted listening to this. But actually I really want to
talk about how I was high key obsessed with the
(48:36):
truth about Jesse Smollett, the Netflix documentary that details everything
that happened back in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 7 (48:43):
January twenty ninth, twenty nineteen, police were called to an incident.
They seen an actor called Jesse Smollett with a news
surround his neck. He says that he was the victim
of a hate crime.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Now, Jesse Smollette's name is basically a verb, and you say,
and he is like, oh, that person's lying. Well. That
documentary literally was so crazy because I don't really watch
true crime docs and I just decided to you know,
of course this is of some interest to me. I
don't know how it's going to go. And then I
(49:15):
was really interested when I saw Justse was actually participating
in the documentary himself, like he is detailing every single
thing that actually happened that night, same story, sticking to it.
There's some reenactments, which was kind of deeply unserious, like
there's an entertainment level to this documentary where I was like,
are y'all for real right now? But also like I
(49:38):
get what they're trying to do, but I guess I'm
I was high key at the end of it, just
a little big question mark. I don't even I was
confused because I always wonder what is the point of
this sort of documentary, especially this particular subject where so
many people either align one way. They either say that
(49:58):
Justse lied or they say that actually the Chicago PD
is scamming, and they created this whole narrative which in
the documentary not even like a spoiler alert, but like
in the documentary there is some pivotal information towards the
end that I would recommend everyone sticking around and watching,
because I think I saw a lot of the I
(50:20):
saw a lot of the commentary around it, being like
I stopped watching halfway through. Well, bitch, just like you
know Untucked, you only get in half the story to
do that, Like it's some really interesting, juicy stuff that
comes out of that and really made me want to,
I don't know, maybe have Jesse on the show for
us to like just talk up about like why he
(50:42):
even decided to do that documentary, which I guess is
because he feels like that's just going to clear it
up and that's the last thing he had to say.
I mean, they even had the former chief of the
Chicago Police department. He was a part of it that
was actually a part of the entire thing. Like everyone
in their mama was a part of this that were
a part of it.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Got to say their own piece and stuff.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
Well, even the brothers were a part of the ones
that were a part of that whole thing. And so
it's just really interesting. I don't know if it necessarily
will make you. I don't know if it will make
you more confused or feel more settled. For me, it
actually made me feel more settled, which is very interesting.
So I'm kind of high key obsessed with I might
watch it again if one.
Speaker 5 (51:23):
Honest I was gonna say, I kind of like documentaries
like that specifically because I think it addresses more clearly
the kind of ways that society deals with the idea.
Speaker 1 (51:35):
Of reality and absolutely.
Speaker 5 (51:38):
Like there's no such thing as one singular truth anymore,
and I think to give the best perspective on anything
that happened, you need to include all the different pieces
of it, even if at the end it lets you
like it leaves you saying like, oh so nobody knows
(51:58):
what the fuck is going.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
On, which it is sort of the thing. Once I
clocked in and realized how deeply unseerious.
Speaker 3 (52:05):
It was.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
I was like, oh, okay, this is not necessarily a
documentary that is supposed to prove something. This is supposed
to be Okay, We're going to lay out all the
different side to this thing, and if you choose wherever
you want to be work. Actually, there's some people in
the documentary that I know personally. Shout out to Jared Hill.
He is a podcaster and he was a commentator. He
(52:28):
worked very closely to that film, I think, consulting on it,
and he was a talking head. And I actually really
wanted more of him to because I feel like he
would have brought in so much more of the nuance
around being a black queer person during twenty nineteen, right
before twenty twenty, all the things that were happening in
culture around that time that actually informed how we reacted
(52:51):
to the just see of it all. And so yeah,
I'm highly obsessed with that documentary. You should check it
out and at me, literally, at me if you like, hey,
are if you're confused just as much as I am,
because I would love to have someone to talk about
it with. What's your hi key?
Speaker 3 (53:06):
Right now?
Speaker 5 (53:07):
I'm high key obsessed with alien earths. It's still my everything.
She's my girly. I think there's only been like three
or maybe at the time this comes out, four episodes, yeah,
maybe three. It's just so good because they're laying this
foundation that I've never really like thought about before in
the alien movies, which is like, you know, every time
(53:30):
where we get to the beginning of a new alien movie,
it's some like bitches out in space being like, oh yes,
who We're super surprised they're aliens in space and it's
kind of curious to see this new story about what
was happening back at Earth. And also no spoilers, but
to have more than one alien, like oh little little
(53:54):
kid me is so horny at all these weird other
aliens included.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
So this is yeah, because I saw this actually it's
on Hulu and I was going to click it because
I've only I think the only alien movie that I've
seen was like the prequel one where the indigenous girl
was like like it was she was kind of the
one that would is that alien.
Speaker 2 (54:14):
I don't know, I feel like that's predator.
Speaker 3 (54:16):
That's like all or something.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
Yeah, girl, I.
Speaker 5 (54:21):
Mean alien and predators like uh touch touched tips once,
they did.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
They didn't like.
Speaker 1 (54:27):
They were sisters. But yeah, so, actually, I guess I've
never seen any alien like you know, properties so, but
I was intrigued by this one. I saw a little
ads for and I was like, ah, I should check
this out. But I just wasn't sure if it was scary.
If it's more sci fi thriller base, then I'm totally
watching it.
Speaker 3 (54:46):
Oh my god, you were so adorable. The way he
said that it was scary.
Speaker 5 (54:52):
It makes me feel so bad for the fact that
I would have lied to you and been like, no, bitch.
Speaker 3 (54:57):
It's actually a rom com.
Speaker 2 (55:00):
Alien species decides to speak.
Speaker 3 (55:03):
One needs to ask why.
Speaker 1 (55:07):
Okay, I probably would have believed you. I would have been like,
oh my god, I gotta watch work. Okay. So that's
our high Keys, that's our show for the week. Very
excited about it. But I'm what I'm actually really excited
about is next week's episode because we're doing something a
little bit different. We decided to like not have a guest,
but allow y'all to get to know us a little
(55:27):
bit more. Right.
Speaker 5 (55:29):
Yeah, So basically it's gonna be like, y'all are the
CIA wired tapping into our face times and you think
that we're gonna talk about bombs, but really we're just
talking about this bomb ass chicken dish I made last night,
that bomb ass man that that Ryan is.
Speaker 2 (55:49):
I've already said too much, too much.
Speaker 1 (55:54):
You're if you are not watching our show, if you're
just listening to what I'm telling, you're missing a great visit.
But no, seriously, I'm very excited because Evie and I
have been literally been like we are in this process.
We are getting to know each other every single moment,
and we just have questions for each other. Actually, and
like we just thought, why not make next week's episode
all about us? So yeah, so excited about it.
Speaker 5 (56:17):
Yeah, come and have a high key key with us,
and maybe we'll even I've been wanting to show you
a little bit of my roots, so maybe we'll watch
one of my audition videos for Drag Race together.
Speaker 1 (56:31):
Oh shut up, Oh my god, I just made so excited. Okay, y'all,
y'all better be back, y'all better be subscribed, y'all better
be all of the things, because you know, we love
that we're building such a beautiful community here. So like,
remember quick little moment before we wrap up, leave us.
Five star reviews on the Apple podcast Please tell us
how much you are loving Edie and I. Even if
(56:53):
you aren't make it up, we won't know you.
Speaker 3 (56:57):
Just write a comment.
Speaker 5 (56:59):
If we don't leave enough reviews on Apple Podcasts, they
won't let me out of this room and I really
have to pee my bobbles.
Speaker 1 (57:05):
Also, we are trapped and these four walls. We are trapped,
so no seriously leave us reviews. Of course, subscribe to
our Patreon over at patreon dot com, slash hike here,
follow us on our own personal sociows, and of course
follow us on Instagram and hike key here. That's the show, y'all.
We'll see you next week. Leve y'all. Bye are you?
Speaker 5 (57:28):
If you're high key obsessed with our show, take a
second to follow or subscribe so.
Speaker 2 (57:33):
You never miss an episode.
Speaker 5 (57:35):
And while you're at it, rate us drop a review
and tell your friends.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
If you want to keep the high key key going,
join us on Instagram and TikTok at high Key here,
and of course on Patreon, where we are literally dropping
all that spicy ass tea every week.
Speaker 3 (57:52):
See you there.
Speaker 1 (57:54):
Hikey is a production of iHeart Podcasts as a part
of the Outspoken Network. This show is creating and executive
produced by Ryan Mitchell, Edatley and Spoke Media.
Speaker 5 (58:02):
Our showrunner is Tyler Green. Our producers are Kelly Kolff
and Katie Alis Greer. Our video producer is Bo Delmore,
and our video editor is Luis Pania.
Speaker 2 (58:11):
Our audio engineer Sammy Sirich. Special thanks to Jenna Burnett
and Tess Ryan.
Speaker 1 (58:17):
Executive producers for Spoke Media. Our Travis Lamont Ballinger and
Aliah Tabacoli.
Speaker 5 (58:21):
Our iHeart team is Just Crime chicch and Sierra Kaiser,
and our.
Speaker 1 (58:25):
Fame music is by the one and only Kayan Hersy
and our show art is by Work by Work, with
photography by Eric Carter
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