Jussie Smollett On Redemption and Losing Everything

Jussie Smollett joins Ryan and Yvie for a raw, emotional, and hilarious conversation about art, love, and redemption. Fresh off the release of his new album Break Out, Jussie opens up about how authenticity and healing have reshaped his artistry — and how he’s learned to “go where the love is.” The trio dives deep into identity, fame, and chosen family, reflecting on how community shifts when you’re constantly under the microscope. Between laughter, honesty and a few wild Hollywood stories, this episode shows a more grounded, reflective Jussie — one focused on love, purpose, and growth. 

Yvie and Ryan also get into Paul Thomas Anderson’s latest film One Battle After Another, unpacking race, representation, and why cinema still matters. 

If you’re HIGHKEY! vibing with us, come hang on Patreon! We’re dropping early ad-free episodes, bonus content, behind-the-scenes tea, exclusive group hangs — basically, the HighKiKi.

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Watch HIGHKEY! on YouTube at youtube.com/@highkeyhere

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HIGHKEY! is a production of iHeartPodcasts, as part of the Outspoken network. The show is created and executive produced by Ryan Mitchell, Yvie Oddly, and Spoke Media.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You talked about drag Race.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
I have before. Oh, I mean I've talked about Empire
once or twice.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
It's all good.

Speaker 3 (00:07):
Okay, Okay, did you get canceled for it?

Speaker 4 (00:09):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (00:09):
No, baby, I got canceled before.

Speaker 5 (00:15):
Thank you.

Speaker 6 (00:18):
Wait?

Speaker 3 (00:18):
Wait, Ryan, have you seen because I've been bitching you forever?

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Now?

Speaker 3 (00:22):
Have you seen one battle after another?

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Yet?

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Sorry?

Speaker 6 (00:24):
I didn't ask for this. That's just how the cards
were rolled out.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
For me.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
It's not cards. You don't roll cards, it's dice. What
is wrong with you? You're right? Let's go.

Speaker 5 (00:34):
Okay, Evie, I have seen one battle after another?

Speaker 3 (00:38):
Oh no, that's why I've seen it. But yeah, I know.
But that's side tells me everything that you're going to
say about it. Up next, no, which I'm so excited
to talk about.

Speaker 6 (00:49):
Bitch Let's number One's number one? Was it good?

Speaker 7 (00:52):
Like?

Speaker 3 (00:52):
Did you did you think it was a good movie?

Speaker 1 (00:55):
Okay?

Speaker 5 (00:55):
Yes, objectively I can say it was a really great movie.
I mean the action, the way that it like immediately
like sucks you into the world.

Speaker 6 (01:05):
And like when people.

Speaker 5 (01:07):
Say this is a film that you have to see
in theaters about any movie, I feel like they're typically lying,
except for like when Sinners was around, and then like,
this movie is telling the truth, you have to see
it and it like experience it in a theater because
just that alone, the bare minimum of that alone is
like it's everything I don't know's.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
It's this world rocking experience. And I think with a
movie that is I'm not gonna give away too much,
but like with the movie that's this deep while also
being that entertaining and that loud and like that explosive,
like girl, I think if you wait to watch it
on streaming at home on your couch, you're just gonna
have time to like sit and get on your phone,

(01:50):
true and get on Twitter upset about it and be like,
you know what, here are all the thoughts I thought
while I paused this movie instead of just like digesting.

Speaker 5 (01:59):
Actually sitting because it doesn't really feel like three hours
like that's the happliment I will actually give it.

Speaker 6 (02:04):
It's it's literally we got out. I think we went.

Speaker 5 (02:07):
I did a twelve forty five showing and got out
around like three forty three thirty ish, and I'm like,
I didn't even realize that it was going on for
that long. However, Comma, I guess what was your other
favorite part of the film besides like the action in
the and all the good stuff, Like what did you
like about it the most?

Speaker 3 (02:25):
That wasn't even my favorite part about it, if I
if I'm being honest. My favorite part about it was
the French seventy five, Like I wish that that was
a whole spin off. I want to know, like how
this extremist organization started. I don't know. I thought that
was the most interesting thing. And the movie opens on

(02:45):
this like complex series of relationships in what are they called?
What is like, Well, they used terrorist organ didn't I
mean revolutionaries? Yes, revolutionaries that's their word. Side, Yeah, But
I like my other The thing that I enjoyed about
it was that it I believe personally that it really
did show a lot of perspectives from every single side

(03:09):
of somebody who would go into this movie with something
a bitch about, which is why I think people are
valid for bitching. But I dare somebody to tell me
it's not a fantastic film that made them think over
and over.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
What did you feel?

Speaker 5 (03:22):
I think I sit in a like not a complicated place,
but I think I just literally saw this film on Sunday,
so I'm still like, I'm still sitting with it, and
I'm still kind of like listening to perspectives and.

Speaker 6 (03:34):
Reading like you know, reviews of just people.

Speaker 5 (03:38):
I think the most interesting critiques have most definitely come
from like black women who have like watched this film
are black women critics specifically who have watched this film
and of.

Speaker 6 (03:47):
Course have called out like the fetiization that.

Speaker 5 (03:50):
Sort of happens through this film, And like I will say,
I walked out of that theater and was like, what
in the race play Quentin Tarantino film was this shit?
I most definitely said that. However, Comma, Yeah, I think
where it falls short is the dialogue. To me, I
think Paul Thomas Anderson does a really good the best

(04:12):
job I think he can do with writing a perspective
of from like these revolutionaries, but then somehow finding a
way to center his own personal story in the film
and these other characters that honestly, the most interesting women
on the screen were the Tiata Taylor, Regina Hall, and
Chase Affinity, And they were the most interesting women and

(04:34):
we barely got any time with him except for Chase.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
I mean, I do see your point. And it's funny
because while I was sitting in this theater, you know,
like I went in with my own set of standards
and ideas and.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
What I was already ready to be pissed about.

Speaker 3 (04:49):
Like number one, Leo DiCaprio's last movie was Killers of
the Flower Moon, which is also fantastic, but it is
like some big old like white savior complex movie that
turns into being like, no, actually, he was really never
there to save them. So it's like a hard movie
to come off of that, right into a movie where

(05:10):
you're playing a part of a revolutionary organization that's supposed
to be about it seems like like balancing the scales
racial equality. Like I like the French seventy five aspect
of it because I thought it was like such a
curious conversation to be had about, you know, how to

(05:32):
get white men to do what you want and rob
a bank. And that's why I don't fully agree with
the fact that, like I was disappointed that the whole
movie kind of had to be about Leo DiCaprio to
make as wide of a splash as it did. However,
I will say the power in it was clearly in
the women. Sure, the power in it was in the

(05:54):
women on both sides to where black women are upset
that you know it is a fetishized depiction, and white
guys are upset because they feel like they got a
fetishized depiction. And the heroes of everything are these like
liberal black women terrorists shout out, jungle Pussy, You're so
fucking dope.

Speaker 5 (06:16):
Which also her saying, I just I think that's I
think I was left wanting more from Jungle Pussy. I
was wanting more from Regina Hall. I was wanting more
because these are people, even Tianna Taylor, Like, I think
these are three actresses who are like Regina Hall. You
have her on your your slate, you have her on

(06:39):
your cast, and you're barely utilizing her.

Speaker 6 (06:42):
And when you are utilizing her, she's.

Speaker 5 (06:44):
Eating down with no dialogue. I think that's so powerful.
But like I do think put to rap a little
ball in this. I do think the Paul Thomas Anderson
of it all, I think he basically left me wondering, okay,
is the question He's asking us to reevaluate, one, what
does revolutionaries look like?

Speaker 6 (07:04):
And then also evaluate our relationship to them?

Speaker 5 (07:07):
And I don't know if he necessarily nailed a point
on its head or anything. But I think it's an
enjoyable film. I think people should go see it, and
it's going to create a splash of a conversation. But
there's a lot that he got wrong in my opinion,
but he also ate so and.

Speaker 6 (07:24):
I disagree entirely.

Speaker 3 (07:25):
I think it was a fantastic third person perspective, using
the power that you get as a white man in
the world to be like, all right, here's how creepy
white guys see black women in the world.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
Let's go ask me.

Speaker 6 (07:38):
Anything new? No, nothing new.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
It was so new because it literally addressed it in
the face, like right from the jump, I felt so
icky right from the jump with how number one Sean
Penn's character was speaking about black wole. That's what it
was addressing, was that, like there has to be some
sort of heel in the way that like we're allowed to.

Speaker 5 (08:01):
Set people know those conversations are happening, whether they're publicly
are internally like the Christmas Adventurous Club, you know, like
we know that well, I know, but those things are
happening and being I know, I know.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
But that's the thing is it was like a dynamic
about not fucking villainizing every single white man just because
they are a part of this evil complex.

Speaker 6 (08:19):
Just like I do. But but.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
A bitch, no, no, it's fucking ridiculous to have this
like separatist like uh sort of ideal when literally, like
the world is built against us. The world is built
against us. Like the one thing out of all the weird,
crazy history that I do understand, uh from the civil
rights movement is that you need somebody with power to Japan's.

Speaker 6 (08:49):
Character lockjaw No.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
No, well, I mean no, no. I think it was
interesting because everyone's pissed about it fetishizing black women for
when literally, well everyone on.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
The left is pissed about that.

Speaker 3 (09:02):
Let me just clarify, there's there's two parties of people
who are pissed about that, and.

Speaker 6 (09:06):
Just talking about average folks who are going to watch
this film and take it well so am I.

Speaker 3 (09:10):
There's like bitches who like are passionately upset about the
uh depiction of black women, depiction of like radical left,
depiction of like liberation and what it means to pursue that.
And then there's people who are pissed that, like Leo
DiCaprio is another dumb fuck up dad, and they're saying

(09:31):
white men can't do anything and they're just a bunch
of colorful racist characters.

Speaker 6 (09:35):
I haven't even I heard that.

Speaker 3 (09:36):
So I think he gave everybody something to be upset by.
What I think was interesting. Is it laid it all
out there? It was like, okay, so there's some people.

Speaker 5 (09:46):
Was it well done the way it was laid off?
Because you can lay it all out there? But was
it done? Was it well done? And I have a
question mark there?

Speaker 3 (09:54):
I one percent don't because, bitch, I dare you to
find another movie that will hold my attention span for
three hours before I'm late.

Speaker 6 (10:02):
Oh wait to give you a couple.

Speaker 5 (10:04):
I also, I also sternly believe that no film should
be over an hour ninety like that. And with me,
I'm like, you could tell a story in the ninety minutes, Like,
let's be fucking.

Speaker 6 (10:15):
Okay, it's one hundred percent. We have. We have a
lot more we do, we do.

Speaker 5 (10:20):
I'm happy we've finally been able to talk about it
because we've went on out a little break.

Speaker 6 (10:24):
Sorry, y'all.

Speaker 5 (10:25):
We hope you all have been enjoying the episodes that
I've been out and you revisited and did all the
things now as controversial as this one battle after another
is in the conversation that is happening. Of course, it's
not over here. We're going to continue to talk about
it a little bit later on the show. But we
have a little bit I think, Edie, you said, a
controversial guest joining us, Yes.

Speaker 6 (10:44):
We do.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
We're diving into Hollywood's wildest stories. So much controversy, even
more than when I spread my legs open in that
car and a bunch of shooters fell out.

Speaker 6 (10:57):
No, that is that is still number one on controversy.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
Yeah, I think I also can't tell if I'm like
Paris Hilton too. But believe it or not, our guest
today has stirred the pot, has riled people up. And
I would like to apologize for your emotions already because Ryan,
you're actually friends.

Speaker 6 (11:15):
With him, right, Yeah, you know, I think he's all
those things.

Speaker 5 (11:19):
But yeah, he's a new friend and he's always been
so sweet, and I really appreciate him coming on the
show and like talking about his new album, talking about.

Speaker 6 (11:28):
His new perspective and outlook on life.

Speaker 5 (11:31):
And yeah, how about you all decide what you feel
after you listen to this interview, because I think that's
tracks with his story. You have to decide what side
you fall on, and we're giving you the same opportunity here.
But get into a honey, it's a little juicy.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
No, it's gonna be so juicy. In fact, it's gonna
be jussy, small let juicy. I'm never gonna be that
clever again.

Speaker 6 (11:58):
Everything coming up.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
Let y'all, Ryan, I thought I was gonna get to
see you.

Speaker 5 (12:08):
No, it's kind of crazy because here's the thing. Here's
the thing we I mean, this show is because of
our schedules. It's virtual. But I was hoping that we
would be able to work some mount in La when
you were here.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
But that's what you but I love. I haven't seen
you since av FF, I know.

Speaker 5 (12:25):
And even before then, it was, oh my god, it
was like Glad Honors or something like.

Speaker 6 (12:30):
It was something Glad related.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
I'm just like it was something gay baby.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
Blast always I didn't know y'all went back like.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
That, Oh my god, you know, are you kidding me?

Speaker 3 (12:43):
Y'all just like it right now, y'all are giving me
like my two aunties who show up to a family
barbecue that we all knew was happening.

Speaker 5 (12:50):
Was like, yes, yeah, way back.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
This is nice though, I feel very very safe and
very low.

Speaker 5 (13:06):
You Jesse, Seriously, I I really mean it when I
say I'm so excited about one this new era that
you are in and this this moment that really looks.

Speaker 6 (13:20):
So refreshing on you. You know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (13:22):
I've been like, it's it's really nice to witness and
I you already wear so many hats.

Speaker 6 (13:29):
You're the actor director.

Speaker 5 (13:31):
I mean your new album is officially out.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yes, yes, this is the first interview that I've done
since the album has been out.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
Crazy right, that's right? What well?

Speaker 6 (13:43):
Thank you babe.

Speaker 3 (13:43):
My wish this was like dropping right now. You know,
I know I could know it should be a lotet
nip slip or something, right, we.

Speaker 5 (13:52):
Need let me give you, let me give you a
but no, I think when you look at where you
are right now, what part of your artistry is making
you feel most alive?

Speaker 1 (14:07):
It's love. It's love, you know.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
I think about it often, and I've been thinking on it,
especially being on this you know, promo tour for particularly
the music. I've been trying to figure out, like, what
is the difference between me as the artist and me
as the man? And I start to realize that they're
both the same. Because if I enter the room with authenticity,

(14:31):
and I enter the room with true honesty and integrity,
then you know it is who I am, and I'm
presenting who I am as I am, And I think
that for so long you can kind of get wrapped
up in presenting a piece of yourself because you don't
want to give away too much, or you're scared of
the scrutiny, you know, especially with what we do and

(14:52):
who we are and how we can be perceived. You know,
having to explain your life time and time again can
get a exhausting. I bet I could, you know, really imagine,
But I think, but it's not just for me though, y'all,
it's for anybody that it's for you. It's for y'all too,
you know what I mean, anybody that by society standards,
it's deemed different. We're going to have to explain, if

(15:16):
you will, ourselves a little bit more than than the
everyday person that doesn't have to do that, you know,
and in one sense you lean into it because.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
You know that there are babies out there.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
You know that if we had the representation that that
people have now as difficult as it is as much
as they're attempting to erase our identities, we still have more.
We still have more representation, we have more resources that
are out there too for us to feel just a
little bit less alone?

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Right?

Speaker 3 (15:46):
Is there ever a part of you though, that like
wants to remove the you part from things? Like I
have to say, there's sometimes I've definitely like had I
don't want to call them regrets, but like regrets about
uh sharing aspects of myself even though I know.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
They help the babies.

Speaker 3 (16:03):
It's like, you're like, damn, I'm just like trying to
eat a sandwich on the street.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, right, Well you know what it is? Hell yes
to your question. Hell yes, every day, every damn day.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
I just want to be like I just want to
be a regular bitch walking down the damn street.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
I just really do.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
But at the same time, at the same time, I
do think that it comes with I don't know, I
just yeah, are you about to drop.

Speaker 6 (16:30):
That Spider man shit on me? Uncle Ben?

Speaker 2 (16:34):
See, responsibility is not always fun, but there's a way
to find the joy in that, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (16:42):
And it's like.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
There are more I think the most difficult thing is
you start to be looked at as only one thing.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
And what ends up happening is.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
Is that you feel like you have to talk about that,
you have to carry that in everything that you do.
When in actuality, I I don't turn over in the
morning and look at my fiance who just so happens
to be a man and say say, gosh, we're representing.

Speaker 5 (17:08):
Yeah, I'm eating up this d I think, oh my god, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
I don't look at him and be like, yes, diversity,
you know what I mean, It's just my life. It's
just my life.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
But I also recognized once you go outside and you
know I've said this, that it's hard because what you
don't want to do is you don't want to start
making money off of your art and then all of
a sudden you become a customer service agent.

Speaker 5 (17:40):
Well, and you're saying you have you grew up in
a very not even like I wouldn't say it's not
a normal way of growing up. But I think a
lot of people can't say that they grew up in
a family that was like all about activism and fighting
for something in a community, right, And I.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
Think that feels like he's intense, right.

Speaker 5 (18:00):
I would imagine but I also feel like it kind
of helps you shape that mindset around knowing like, Okay,
I'm going to continue to be the representation in the
art that I love, but I'm also not going to
be a commodity.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
And I think that that's what it is, because again,
it has to do with your upbringing. So that's the
perfect point to pull in because there was a point
where I remember being a little kid and we y'all,
we were not allowed to watch Charlie Brown.

Speaker 6 (18:27):
Oh child.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
I grew up COVID because my mom would be like,
they're racist, they have that one.

Speaker 6 (18:32):
No black cat, You'll never have no friends.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
We weren't able to watch it, like we just we
just were not. There were certain movies and certain directors.
I remember we were not allowed. I did not see, y'all.
We saw every old movie there was to see every
old every Joan Crawford I could name. I think Joan
Crawford did like eighty one films.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
Get out THETA.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
Get your things out of this house right now before
I throw them into the street, and you with them, get.

Speaker 6 (19:04):
Out before I kill you.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
I know this because my mother is like, has every
Jone Crawford vhs still in this treasure chest in her.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah, no, she really is all the posters everything.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
But we were not allowed to watch like Gone with
the Wind until I was an adult, and I was like, okay,
like I'm a filmmaker, I need to see his Damn.

Speaker 6 (19:27):
I've seen clips.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
My mom would let us watch the Carol Burnette thing
of her dressed to Scarlet O'Hara forever, but we were
not allowed to watch that, and it was just it's
the way that we were brought up. I remember my father,
who is not black, was not black. He's no longer
with us, but it's not black. He'd be calling white
people like really derogatory names. I'm like, uh, don't do that.

Speaker 5 (19:52):
Hold on, you gotta remember you not black, like bro,
Like calm down, you, calm down, he'd say.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Sometimes you'd be like, well, man, because we don't do that.
We're black, And I'm like, but you ain't.

Speaker 7 (20:05):
Ye.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
It's just the way that we grow up.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
So I think that I carry that, so it's a
little less of a I think that I stress more
over people scrutinizing my personal life rather than people scrutinizing
what and who I am, you know, as a black man,
as a gay man, as a as a queer man.

Speaker 6 (20:23):
More about that?

Speaker 5 (20:24):
What does that mean for you when you're saying scrutinizing
your personal life.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
Like when you walk into a room and you know
that people are like thinking about every aspect of you
that they know about, rather than your art that you
are here to like.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
Press every single accent. And here's the thing, friend, they
may not even be thinking about that. You're thinking about
them thinking about you know what I mean? Yeah, because
you know some mofo in the damn world is thinking
about that. You know, somebody in that room or you
feel that some are, and sometimes that there have been y'all,
there have been times where I've been sitting down at

(20:57):
a restaurant and someone staring and I just think that
they hate me or their hater or I'm.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
Just like you can't feel it.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
And they're talking and they're taking pictures and they laughing,
and then they walk up and be like, I just
want to say that I love you so much.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
I just like so stupid. I'm so stupid.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
Because sometimes in security, you got to watch it that
it don't lead you to be self absorbed, because you
might actually think that more people are thinking about you
just in general, whether it's good or bad, and they're
not even thinking about you at all.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
You know what's funny is I was I was hooking
up with this guy in his hot tub last night,
and oh, I guess the story. There are sit back
and I was hanging out with a friend last night.

Speaker 6 (21:40):
Who was telling.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
Your friend or your friend friend.

Speaker 3 (21:45):
Well, I don't know, I only I just learned his
name yesterday.

Speaker 6 (21:48):
So please.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
But he was he's just got out of like a
very long relationship that is also tied to a big
event or party, and so he was expressing like how
when he was walking around this event and party that's
like all about like authenticity, like free uninhibited expression, that
all he was thinking about was everybody and how he

(22:16):
knows that they're talking about him. And I was like, girl,
it sounds like you were just like a little too
plugged in. Like you need to find if everyone does
know you in this space, you need to find somewhere
to put yourself that like you can at least be
at peace and learn a new way to move through
the world. So my question is for you, when you
are moving through these spaces and you you feel overwhelmed,

(22:39):
you feel everybody like talking their shit, like, where do
you put yourself? How did you?

Speaker 1 (22:43):
How do you?

Speaker 3 (22:44):
How do you like decompress from the thoughts that you're thinking,
people are thinking.

Speaker 6 (22:50):
The story you're telling yourself.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
I imagine, I imagine that I'm Whitney Houston.

Speaker 3 (22:56):
Okay, explain, okay, which which which Whitney?

Speaker 6 (23:00):
Okay. That's a lot of cultural.

Speaker 5 (23:05):
Please you know, Whitney is the vocal, the god of
every all things vocal.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
But please so I remember, I remember back in the day,
there was this movie that Angela Bassett directed right about
Whitney Houston, and former America's Next Top Model and actress
Yah Yah played whitting Houston. I remember there was this
one line where she was getting out of the car
and she said, time to be Whitney Houston. And that's

(23:36):
stuck with me, and I stay with me, stay with me.
It stuck with me because I feel like it said
so much more about you create a version of yourself
that just deals with it. You just deal with it
until you are out of the situation, and then you breathe.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
Because you can't. You don't have time in that moment.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
If you're feeling anxious, if you're feeling and I can't
speak for everybody, but I can speak for myself. If
you're feeling anxious, or you're feeling you know, insecure, or
or just low, whatever it may be, and you have
work to do and you have places to be.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
You gotta buck up for myself.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
I just have to buck up because I'm also not
I'm not going to allow any of my insecurities to
spill over. And just in case there is somebody there
that feels some sort of way that I would give
them a moment, I wouldn't want to do that. So
what I try to do is, you know, my godmother Deanna,
one of my godmothers, is she constantly says this thing.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
She's like, baby, just go where the love is, Go
where the love is. Go with the love is.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
And you can't always go where the love is, but
you can find where the love is in every single situation,
even if that means finding the love like going to
the bathroom for a second, getting yourself together and coming
back that because and being like, you know what, in.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
This moment, I'm not faking it till I make it.
I'm just taking yourself. Yeah, you have to.

Speaker 5 (25:04):
Let's talk about that, right because I think that's really beautiful,
like finding the love right wherever you can. And I
think a lot of times you can find the love
and community, but I know it can be rough when
you have you have been someone who has like gone
through so much in the public eye. If we're not
going to talk about it, work totally fine. But I

(25:25):
want to acknowledge that because I think that's a part
of a beautiful part of your journey. And I wonder
how did community shift for you? Did you still feel like,
I know, you had your family who will always be there,
I mean blood stink of the water, honey, but also
your chosen family, the people that you were maybe publicly
aligned with are even personally in your world. How has

(25:47):
community shifted the way that you think about it now?

Speaker 2 (25:50):
Oh, that's such a good question. What I've realized is
is that I used to think. I used to think that,
oh my god, I literally.

Speaker 6 (26:05):
No reason, it's momaise, I'm just go into my bedroom,
aisha ko.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
That's how I get through life.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
What I realized is is that I used to think
that two things.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
I used to think that the world.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
This is, this is going to sound like I'm jaded,
and maybe I am in this part. But I used
to think that the world was the majority of the
world was good people that were fighting against bad.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
Right. I started to see.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
The world as the majority was bad people fighting to
appear to be good. And that is exhausting in itself
because but there are still incredible people in the world,
of course, and most people their intentions are good, but
they just screw up. So you got to recognize the

(27:06):
root of people's intentions because I'm not going to judge
you based on what you do. I'm going to judge
you based on how you react when you are approached
with what you did. Yeah, you know. And I used
to believe that if you were if you were black,
you're a part of my community. If you are if
you are any any of the letters, you, my baby, you,

(27:28):
my boo, you are my community. And I started to
realize that that's not true. In actuality, my community are
the people that show up, that are there when times
are amazing, and are there when times are bad. Tell
me when I'm doing great, and tell me when I'm
fucking up. Hold my feet to the fire, tell me

(27:51):
hold me accountable.

Speaker 1 (27:52):
Please, you know what I mean. I do not care to.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Exist in a world where everyone is saying yes because
I can read bullshit.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
I can smell bullshit a mile away right now.

Speaker 5 (28:02):
Not always, but it took you to go It took
you to go through something to really kind of get
that meter right.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
But what I realize now is that my community are
those people, and they just so happen to be predominantly
black and predominantly queer. Now, so that is my community.
But recognizing that not everybody is going to love you,
I call me foolish, but I really thought like, if

(28:33):
you do, if you do good for the most part,
like even if they don't, even if they don't like you,
they're not gonna they're not gonna hate you, because there's
no real reason to write like you're not bothering anybody,
So just do your thing. And you know, I wasn't
never trying to bother anybody in my life except racists
and homophobes.

Speaker 3 (28:54):
But what's so wild, though, is like I feel like
it's been the plot of a million TV shows, movies,
cartoons like I Got this growing up Disney eight thousand
times over. It's like one character who people typically love
like finally finds somebody who hates them or doesn't give
a shit and then they're like, oh no, and their

(29:15):
world is wrecked. And at the end of the day
they learn it's okay to like not everybody.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
And that's when you sit down with Bob Saget Danny
Tanner and he says, Stephanie, not everybody gonna like you.
Huge audio track of okay, you know what I mean
because I used to be that person also, y'all where
I did like I'm gonna keep it real. I used
to be that person where you could have a thousand

(29:40):
comments of people be like, oh my god, like your
voice is the voice of an angel.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
We love you, and I'm just like, oh, thank you
so much.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
One person could be like this, motherfuckers sound like a
dying lamb, and I'm a straight up I'm gonna be like,
oh my god, my vivrado is a lettle shake and
it's just like, shut up up.

Speaker 5 (29:58):
That also sounds like that's a comment that you received
that felt very specific.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
I put it in my first song on my first album, Insecurities,
like literally like they make it sound like a dying lamb.
That's what hey, That's what one person said, and it
bothered me so deeply that I put it into a song.

Speaker 7 (30:14):
Well.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
I think that's interesting though, because I think a part
of our like it's not a responsibility by any means,
but I think it's interesting when artists will be like,
oh no, I don't engage with like any of the feedback.
I don't like read the comments because I think in
an ideal.

Speaker 6 (30:30):
World that would be beautiful.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
But you know, the way I was taught art is
you paint your art, you put it up in a show,
and then you have to go to the gallery showing
and like stand in a corner with your glass of
wine and listen to what bitches are saying about it.
It's like, you know, it is for us, and it
is from us, but it is also a conversation with
the world. So I'm curious if any elements of that

(30:54):
worldly conversation like really made it into this album, whether
or not.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
You intend to do.

Speaker 2 (31:01):
Oh my gosh, I think that for what I've been
through over the last you know, almost damn near a decade,
it would be impossible for it not to make its way.
It's all throughout the album, you know, because the album
is all of my music has always been. Even the
music that I wrote for Empire was very autobiographical. You know,

(31:27):
I say this, I say this often that I grew
up loving those autobiographical writers, the Stevie Wonders and the
Janet Jackson's and the Carly Simon's and Aretha Franklin's and
you know, Dusty Springfield, you know what I mean, the
people that really wrote these songs, and they were not
generic songs. They were songs about something, and they were

(31:47):
broad enough to make us feel like, come on, Velvet
Rope to me, is the album that saved my life,
you know what I mean, Like as a young little
boy that didn't know what was happening with all of this,

(32:08):
you know, I feel like she came along and explained
it somehow, whether it was intentional or unintentional, and it
was simply from her explaining her talking about her depression,
her talking about her sexuality, her talking about her experiences.
Somehow that opened up the world to me. And I
think that that's what my mission has been since, is
that art can actually art of any kind, creation of

(32:32):
any kind, actually has the power to change things, actually
has the power to knock down doors and start conversations
that ordinarily we wouldn't be able to have. There's so
many people that came up to me and have said
clearly that they've had discussions with their children about their
sexuality because they watched Empire. Yeah, and so that type
of stuff I don't take lightly. But with that said, yes,

(32:55):
it's weaved all throughout the album are the stories and
the But what I didn't want to do is I
didn't want to create a sad ass album. I create
because I wanted to show what I've been through. But
on the other side of that is joy. And I
haven't been through. There have been people who've been through

(33:16):
ten times worse than I've been through. There have been
people who have been assaulted and don't come back to
talk about it, don't come back from it, even to
be called a liar, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
So so for that, I.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Just keep on forcing myself to look because in the
moments that I stopped looking, I feel like I lost
a sense of reality. I've lost It's okay, And I
get it, y'all, like I get it. Like you're not
supposed to know. You're not supposed to know everything that
people think of you, whether it's good or bad. But

(33:51):
at times sometimes you do need to peek your head
out and you need to see what people are saying
because as an at least for me, because I'm too
no about my own business not to know.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
Girl, same you know what I'm.

Speaker 3 (34:04):
Saying, Like, legit, I'm so bad. I haven't gotten I
made a TikTok last year or something like literally to
be like, yeah, you're eventually gonna get on this could
not give a ship. And then finally, like last week,
discovered the place on TikTok where it tells you everything
everyone's saying about.

Speaker 6 (34:21):
Or tagging you in. Yeah, oh bitch, I deep dive
so quick. I would never That's the thing though it's
existed on here talking to me, I me.

Speaker 5 (34:36):
It's something that I've had to flag about myself, especially
doing this show and as we're getting listeners, and it's
one of those things where it's.

Speaker 6 (34:44):
Like I love getting feedback.

Speaker 5 (34:46):
I think it makes you so much better, especially when
it's constructive, and it really just is like if you
can find you someone that tells you exactly what the
issue is and how you can work on it.

Speaker 6 (34:56):
That's my cake.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
Sure.

Speaker 6 (34:58):
Where the line it starts to.

Speaker 5 (35:00):
Blur is when you can't tell what this is, like,
you can't tell if it's actually rooted in something that
is like grounded and of truth and like is meaningful
and helpful or is it just something to just throw
another jab? And I think that's where people get lost
in this like cycle of social media comments in the noise,

(35:22):
because it doesn't really allow you to know what is
your truth. And I wonder, through this process of writing
Breakout and your album, what was that journey of you
understanding and maybe grieving with your truth and what the
world perceives as your truth?

Speaker 2 (35:43):
But you do though you do have grieving is the
right word, Like you do grieve you almost not almost.
I had to grieve the person that I was, you know.
I had to grieve losing that person because there's no
possible way that I'll ever be there. Yeah, And as
much as I would like to believe and you know,

(36:04):
like to you know, I think that that's one of
the fears is that you're scared in the beginning, at
least for me, I was scared in the beginning of like, damn,
am I going to feel like me again? It feels
like you can't smile, you know. I remember one time
I was on after everything was done the first time,
not the third time. But the first time, after everything

(36:27):
was done, I went on.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
A trip with my sister.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
It was my oldest sister's birthday and the whole family
went to I remember we went to Hawaii. It was
still a you know, a dark time, but I remember
I remember laughing because my niece was there. She's my
favorite person in the whole world. And my niece was
there and she ran and it was something cute, and
I just laughed. It was a huge, hearty laugh that
I had not laughed in a minute. And it ended

(36:51):
up on some like blog somebody had gotten this picture
of it.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
Oh they you know what I'm saying. They changed the title.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
They were just like, oh, he said that blah blah
blah blah blah. He's laughing at da da da.

Speaker 3 (37:00):
Laughing at a child who fell well been.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
But no, they they made it seem like I was
laughing at winning and and it just brought all of
the stuff back to something ugly, and you know, you're
just like, okay, so that does something to your psyche
to just be like, you know what, then I just
ain't gonna smile.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
In public, Like, oh my god, express.

Speaker 6 (37:29):
You don't ever let them take that joy away.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
From you, no, never again.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
But you have to realize that at that time again,
I am a much different person than I was then.
I have the skin of an elephant. At this point,
I still am. Things still hurt, my feelings still, things
still make me insecure. I'm not going to sit here
and act like I'm, you know, man of steel. But
at the same time, I still I can. I can

(37:55):
move on from it. I can keep moving because I
do have. What I realized throughout all of this, and
I've said this before, is that I don't believe in happiness.
I think that happiness is a feeling that we can feel,
but happiness can be taken away from us when in
those moments of sadness, those moments of stress or anger

(38:16):
or frustration, whatever it is. But joy is something that
we carry deep down inside. And that's something that even
though I thought because I was looking for happy, I
was only looking for happy, Like when am I going
to feel happy again? And it's like you might not,
or you might you will, but it's just a feeling.
You feel happy right now, but if you be taken away,

(38:37):
but your joy and that's what I wanted for people
to feel with breakout, that we are collectively going through
a collective worldwide depression. And I'm not talking about money.
I'm not talking about doubts and I'm talking about I'm talking.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
About we all feel that this is heavy. This is.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Absolutely and I believe that it does not matter what
side you're on what, I don't care if you are
some racist homophobe who so you are not happy? Your
ass is stressed. That's why you're so busy trying to stress.
I ask you know what, I'm like, why are you
so stress?

Speaker 6 (39:15):
Literally?

Speaker 2 (39:16):
Literally gotta go eat some Velveda cheese and call it
Christmas like it's fine?

Speaker 6 (39:23):
Oh you know that?

Speaker 5 (39:24):
Wait, that just gave me a taste for some rotail.

Speaker 6 (39:31):
We are.

Speaker 3 (39:32):
We are non sponsored by them yet, but if you
would like to Velveta, I will over pussy.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
But I just love Wait.

Speaker 5 (39:43):
I mean, but here's the thing I changed. Please everyone,
let's rate it back again.

Speaker 6 (39:50):
Hey, that's right, let's get back to being serious again.

Speaker 5 (40:00):
No, but I think that's why I love the title
of your project, right, because breaking Out is not only
like something that you really can literally do, but it
feels like it's more of a feeling. What do you
want people to take away from this new era of
sound and instrumentation and where your voice is.

Speaker 6 (40:20):
Right now, what do you want?

Speaker 1 (40:21):
Are in the love era?

Speaker 6 (40:25):
Like it really my girl gets engaged. It is rapped.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
I don't want to hear no foolishness.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
I don't want to hear no bushit like I just
want to be I just want to walk down the
damn streets singing about love like I do on my video, because.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
That is y'all. Love is the root of everything.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
And I feel like the problem is is that we
started to believe that talking like that is corny, but
it's not.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
It's like we need more of that.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
Love or lack of love is the root of everything,
and we all need to be okay with showing love.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
It's like we're also I get it.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
We're busy in our own days where we're going through shit,
like we're trying to pay our bills, We're trying to
take care of our mama, We're trying to take care
of our kids, we trying to take care of any
and everybody.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
Trying to take care of our damnseelves, you know what
I mean.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
And we're mentally we're mentally exhausted, we're emotionally exhausted, not
to talk about like physically, financially, all of the other things,
you know. But at the same time, we got to
take a moment and connect, sober up, and connect with
each other and love on each other because people are
going through things that you don't know what you might

(41:37):
say that could be the trigger point for somebody to
just be done with it all.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
But you also don't know what you.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
Might say that could be the trigger point to make
somebody stay, to make somebody like just hold on for
five more minutes until it gets just a little bit better,
because it does get better, all of those things that
we started to hear like in our twenties, you know,
when like Trevor project around, Yeah, things like that, where
it was like, oh, you know, it gets better, and
you know all of this, I feel like we're losing

(42:06):
sight of the fact that y'all that's still true. Like
that's still true. And so with all the bullshit and
all the bullshit that we're going through as a community
as a people and all of that type of stuff, Like,
isn't that the moment that you lean in more?

Speaker 3 (42:21):
Yeah, it is, But I think we just have to
realize how dire that is because I will say, like
not to get too political on this show, but you know, there.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
Was a long periodical yeah political being.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
Ok okay, then let's jump in with my my unsmart ass,
because I feel like there was this long period where
we did, you know, not to steal Obama's shit, but
like the culture was literally powered by hope. We had
visions for the future, even though we had all these
problems that were starting to pile on, we had like

(42:56):
just this sense of it's going to be okay. Sometime,
I think I would personally like to speak and say
the culture has shifted to a decade now at least
of that hope sort of being sucked out and people
just seeing what's worse and worse in all these different ways,
which is why I think that swing is coming back,

(43:18):
because you know, we can't ever stay in that, we
can't stay in a space of down net.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
But that's what people don't realize is that, y'all, the
pendulum has to swing all the way to the left,
and then all the way to the right, and then
a little bit more to the left, a little bit
more to the right, a little bit less, a little
bit less, till it finds its way to the center.
It can't be. It can't be one way all the time.
And it's interesting you said a decade because people don't
realize how much something things can change in a five

(43:45):
to ten year period, in good ways or bad ways.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
Yeah, you know, but that's the mission.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
But that's the current mission right now, is to make
us feel hopeless, you know, so that we just whatever,
just do what you want to do. As long as
I'm living my life, I'm just concerned. At this point,
I'm hopeless. I'm just concerned with getting by day to day.
And then you stop thinking about the fact that no, no,
like we still have to be hopeful, we still have

(44:12):
to we still being in a perpetual state of fighting, though,
is not good for anybody. You have to take yourself
and find something, something that gives you hope, joy, whatever
it is, I don't care, but I would recommend it
being something that is sobering.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
To your mind, not taking your mind some other place.

Speaker 5 (44:34):
And I think it's it's what's powerful about the the
things that we put into the world, like this project
or the work that you've done, like the Last Holiday.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
The Lost Holiday, last Queen. But we love Queen Latifa.

Speaker 5 (44:48):
You know what I mean, which is a great, great
That's why I saw. I was at the premiere of
ABFF earlier and it was just so it was beautiful.

Speaker 6 (44:59):
Shout out to you.

Speaker 5 (45:03):
But I wonder, are there any other mediums that you
are wanting to explore? Like I'm interested in seeing you.
What does theater look like? Right?

Speaker 1 (45:14):
I was just about to say that. I was like, yeah,
that is my next conquest is like I must.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
I just want to. I want to conquer theater like
I haven't. It's the one, not the one thing. There's
tons of things I haven't done, but it's one of
the things that creatively, as an actor, I've never done.
And it's shocking that I haven't because crazy, I am
a trained actor, I am a trained performer, I'm a
trained dancer, I'm a trained singer, but I've never done

(45:42):
I've never done it, and it's something that I certainly
want to do.

Speaker 3 (45:46):
Like now, like yesterday, bitch, you have like such stage energy,
like you're stage ready.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
And baby, I can project, but I also know it's
really coming.

Speaker 5 (46:00):
This like beautiful vehicle for like black creatives specifically and
black queer creative.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
I love it that you can tell.

Speaker 5 (46:07):
The stories and get the space and I you know,
you know, it's all a business and there's probably so
many financial confidents, but you get a more a beautiful
space to tell the stories that you want to tell. Right,
And so is it just simply being on the stage
or do you want to be driving that?

Speaker 2 (46:23):
No, I don't. Here's the thing. I want to be
on the stage. I don't have to be driving it.
But I also want to have somewhere i'm driving it
as well.

Speaker 3 (46:30):
So there's that.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
But I also I don't feel like, let me be clear,
I don't want to develop every damn project I do.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
I know, I don't.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
I do not That shit is tiring and it's hard.
But at the same time, at the same time, I will.

Speaker 3 (46:49):
I will because cuss like you, you want to explore everything.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
Yeah, Like I'm so, I'm so curious.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
Like I said before, I'm so damn nosy about out
just my life in general. And I just feel like
life is so life is too short and it's too
long to not do everything that you want to do
if I want to. If I want to live in London,
I'm going to live in London if I want to.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
And now here's the thing. I don't say that.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
I'm not being cavalier about that, and just you know,
I'm also recognizing that I'm blessed and grateful to have
the resources to be able to say that out loud,
you know. But at the same time, I recognize that
other people don't always have that. But at the same time,
what you want to do in a day, find a
way to at least give yourself one moment of doing
what you want to do, because what you want to

(47:38):
do is what you need to do for yourself.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
And that is okay.

Speaker 3 (47:42):
That sound like my literal fucking therapist right now.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
She sound like my therapist too, But my therapist told
me like this.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
My therapist said like this, she said, she said, she said,
there is nothing you are getting with this false humility.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
Oh and I'm like, what do you mean, shut your face.

Speaker 5 (48:03):
I'll never get over paying somebody to drag you every
week Like that is just.

Speaker 4 (48:09):
It is.

Speaker 5 (48:09):
She She is someone that when I know I have
left a session and I know it's been good, I
am still replaying her reads like.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Oh absolutely, and you go you go in there every
single week or every two weeks, you know, depending on
how well off you are, you know, I'm a weekly man.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
Sometime I'm multiple time the week.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
But but it's also you know, it's good when you
go up in there and you're looking forward to and
you're like, let me go over again and annoy her today,
me today. But she said like this, she said, she
said stop the production. And I didn't know what that
meant at first, but she said stop the production. She said,

(48:52):
because the production is not for you.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
The production is for everyone else, and it's exhausting to you.
Stop the production.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
You don't have to you don't have to do all
of this for these people. You don't have to tap
dance through life. Stop the production. Just be And it
makes you be like, what the fuck do you mean
by that?

Speaker 6 (49:19):
Like who told you? First of all?

Speaker 1 (49:21):
And then you're doing a whole what do you mean
by that? What?

Speaker 6 (49:25):
We wait?

Speaker 5 (49:26):
How really did you? When did you move to London?
Like how long have you been in London? That's crazy?

Speaker 2 (49:31):
A little bit a little bit, but you know, out
to talk too much about it again.

Speaker 6 (49:36):
Oh that's beautiful.

Speaker 5 (49:37):
I didn't know, Like what what has London taught you
about yourself? You know?

Speaker 1 (49:41):
What's interesting is.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
That I lived in London for sometime like you know,
like a million years ago, like twenty years ago.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
When I was twelve, and I'm kidding.

Speaker 8 (49:54):
It's been eighty four years, yes, of course, but but
this time and you know, my whole music team is
out there, you know, so we'll see how long, you know,
with the launch of the project.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
It's just been incredible to spend so much time in London.
There's a calmer for me, at least, there's a it's
it's it's a little slower, and I know that, like
the UK has its own set of challenges, but I
always say this, it's kind of like if you have
a fucked up family life and then your neighbor has
a fucked up family life. You go over to their

(50:25):
house and they fucked up family life don't feel as fucked.

Speaker 4 (50:27):
Up as your family life because it's their family life. Yeah,
so you just go there like I love it here,
this is great, and your friend is like, but you,
but darling.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
You knew this is absolutely absolute, And then you're.

Speaker 3 (50:43):
Like, boo, y'all fine, look at look at the high
household right now.

Speaker 6 (50:48):
Okay, I'm just gonna chill it here.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
And stay n gonna chill here.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
I'm gonna just you know, like, what's some immigration baby, Like,
it's you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
So, yeah, it's been.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
It's been, it's been peaceful, it's been and above all,
it's been necessary to what we're trying to do. We
also shoot our next film, uh, that I'm directing and
I'm starring in, at the end of first quarter, so
like beautiful March or April of spring, summer September.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
I'm kidding, right, I just like that.

Speaker 3 (51:19):
You're like, yeah, I'm also shooting and directing my next
film right after. You're like, you know, I don't want
to like be so involved in every production. Yeah, but
but I'm still a control freak, y'all. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
I am. I'm a controlling hand have.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
I just like things done a certain way.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
So I know that I this is the thing.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
You must know how annoying you are if you're going
to continue to be annoying.

Speaker 6 (51:56):
True.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
Oh yes, Okay, you see what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (51:59):
And I think a lot of people out there that
think that way and know that they're annoying.

Speaker 6 (52:03):
But guess what, the work must continue.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
Dear hey, key fans, I'm so sorry for my voice
and Ryan's voice and the things I talk about talking
about drag Race my body odor and if you talked
about drag Race, yes, once.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Or twice, even though she's a letter. I've talked about
Empire once or twice. It's all good.

Speaker 3 (52:22):
Okay, Okay, did you get canceled for it? I haven't either.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
Oh no, baby, I got canceled before.

Speaker 5 (52:35):
Sorry, But Jesse, I just want to say, and I
think I could speak for Evie as well, We're we're
so honored that you we were your first stop and
that you came here and talked about this new beautiful
era that you're in. I'm so excited for you because
it's all over you, this new shine, this this joy

(52:57):
is simply just beautiful. And so if you didn't know
Jesse had a new album, please go list and go
buy it, go stream it, go watch all the videos,
and just support in any ways that you can, because
I think this moment right here is a special one,
and we thank you for joining us.

Speaker 6 (53:13):
For Oh my god, I forgot to ask her a question.
That's what I was getting into.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Jesse.

Speaker 3 (53:20):
Every week on a key, we like to ask our
guests a special question, which is love games. I want
to know what's your high key about? Like you know
what's occupying space in your mind, fres in a place,
a thing.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
I don't know if I should be embarrassed about this,
but I'm gonna just say I'm high key on Batti's.

Speaker 6 (53:39):
We are here in Africa.

Speaker 3 (53:44):
The Baddies are known everywhere.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
No, I'm so sorry.

Speaker 3 (53:51):
No, like like like Baddy is in Africa.

Speaker 6 (53:53):
Baddie is like going all the way back.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
So embarrassed that they did, because when they Africa, I
was just like, why now, why y'all gonna go to
the movie that, please don't.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
Embarrass us In the mother Lands.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
They watched it anyway, and I have to say that
I love them. I love I love Fauna, she is
so pretty and so sweet. I love Fauna, I love Scotty,
I love Roly, I love I even love crazy ass Summer.

Speaker 6 (54:23):
And this is why I love it.

Speaker 5 (54:26):
Real equality is allowing us to have our our ship
that is trash as well.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
You know what I mean. Listen, listen.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
I did Candy Show like last week, and that's exactly
what I was saying is I'm just like, there is
not one way to be us, and I don't think
that every single person has to be you know, we're
not all although I love them, but like, we're not
all gonna be walking down the carpet of the naacpms
like it, don't you know what I mean. It's not

(54:56):
and that's so important, but there are multiple ways and
other ways to show who we are. And I'm sorry,
and I ain't trying to get too deep about the
show because I'm talking about batties but at the same time,
but y'all stay with me of the fact that I
see growth in these young women. I see these young
women coming in here and creating a better life for
themselves and hurting each other and hurting themselves in the process,

(55:18):
but somehow finding a way to get through it.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
And I'm sorry, like I just want to bitch.

Speaker 6 (55:25):
Like look at Scottie, Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
And Scotti is so fucking mature now, and you just
see her and you see her like coming into her
own and really owning her shit. And and also what
I love is when people squash things, like when Tommy
shot Roley with that BB gun, but then Tommy came back.

Speaker 6 (55:43):
The following season.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
And they made up, Like when Tommy rode in on
like a camel or a horse or something in her
ass and Tommy was like, I'm tired, but y'all with
Tommy said about her daughter, Yeah, she said, I got
a daughter that's watching I want better for I just
I felt that.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
I felt that at my core. So I think that.

Speaker 6 (56:05):
Batty is out here changing lives.

Speaker 5 (56:07):
No, I get that beautiful, and I think it's a
perfect stop this shot girl. God, Jesse Smiller, thank you
so much for big Laddie.

Speaker 6 (56:18):
You shot a clock benches.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
Let's do that.

Speaker 6 (56:23):
Oh my god, Jesse, I love you so.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
I love you too. I love you both. I love
you both.

Speaker 5 (56:29):
We were so excited about this, this conversation. Seriously, it
means the world for you to support.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
I can't wait to sit with y'all in person listen.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
As much fun as we had on this little COVID
nineteen zoom.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
Call, we even have even more thank you.

Speaker 5 (56:47):
So I still I guess I like shout out to
Jesse Smillan for being on the show.

Speaker 6 (56:51):
It was a really great interview. And maybe we're talking
about I don't know what. I loved it. I loved it,
and I think I.

Speaker 3 (56:57):
Loved I loved it. But I will say I wish
I had my little sunglasses on my little that way
we could have like matched vibes and been like, yo,
who's cooler?

Speaker 5 (57:13):
But I speaking up there, I think we were we
have locked into something with this one battle after another conversation,
and I think where we kind of left off at
the top of the show, I asked the question where
I was like, do we believe that this was well
done from like a three sixty perspective, not just like

(57:34):
half of it being like excellently, like it's beautiful, the
cinematography is incredib blah blah blah blah. But was this
actually like a well done movie When it comes to
the dialogue specifically.

Speaker 3 (57:47):
I'd say, yeah, bitch, like uh uh. The reason why
I'm so passionately about it is I think there is
always this great debate and culture about how much of
your own experience you aren't allowed to like write about
or talk about, or how much knowledge somebody has to
be giving to something. And while obviously this was another

(58:09):
film made by some white guy that starred mostly some
white guy, and I do think what was interesting about
it was for me, I understand it wasn't the highlight
showcase about black women. I think, you know, if we
talk about things, who these audiences are, where films are made.

(58:31):
I feel like this was like a sneaky way to
get the conversation about fetishization about like, you know, race
relations interracial relationships, power across to the whitest audience. And
I'm using whitest in that sense and in the can't

(58:52):
dance sense.

Speaker 6 (58:54):
Because legit, I feel like if there.

Speaker 3 (58:56):
Was a movie that was if this movie was all
about Tiana Taylor's character Perfidia Beverly Hills, which which it
should have been, in which I want, it wouldn't have
made like a wide enough impact to actually be speaking
on both sides. So in my opinion, if I agree
with that, I mean, girl, we're we're bitching about one thing,

(59:18):
and literally there's someone in the manosphere right now being like, man,
that movie was good, but if fuck is sucked because
these liberals are always just making fun of white men
and it just makes us all out to be dog.

Speaker 5 (59:33):
So I actually feel like Paul Thomas Anderson is sort
of making that statement in a lot of different ways.
I think in his choice of dialogue it came from
a perspective of like, if I was to be in
the shoe of a revolutionary for a day, what would
they say?

Speaker 6 (59:51):
What would they sound like, what would they do?

Speaker 5 (59:54):
And how do we ultimately make them all fail at
what they're doing? And then Auso, so like there's you know,
perfidias like snitches for all of these things. And I
think that's a very complex and nuanced like decision for
that care to the more I think about it. But
I'm like, I I feel like he is actually actively

(01:00:15):
making that commentary and he's he's he's doing it through
such a lens of dialogue that felt so disconnected at
times where I was like, this don't even make sense
along with the plots, like the plot holes in the
story altogether, and so I don't know, like I just
feel like I love a big swing. This film is

(01:00:35):
the biggest swing of the year. I'm going to say that. Yeah,
for sure, haven't been very excited about a movie this
year except for Sinners.

Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
I mean, like, that's why she has to be my
high key is like, yes, obviously, I'm on the side
of I really appreciate it as a piece of art,
and I think it did such a complex job at
selling such hard ideas.

Speaker 6 (01:00:57):
Way of saying it complex job.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
I think did a complex job. You know, it gave
lots of people, lots of things to be pissed about,
which to me is good. That's fantastic art because if
we are feeling like this over here and somebody over
there is feeling that way, the only people who are
losing out are the people who are not having the conversation,
are the people who aren't going to go see a
movie that is probably gonna make you feel some type

(01:01:21):
of way about something.

Speaker 6 (01:01:23):
Yeah, yeah, but there's so And that's the thing.

Speaker 5 (01:01:25):
I think there's so many of these big conversations that
you're like talking about that are I'm happy that they
are happening. Like, I think everyone should for sure go
see this film.

Speaker 6 (01:01:35):
I think it's a film that you will thoroughly enjoy.

Speaker 5 (01:01:38):
And I was listening to a friends podcast and they
kept making the joke that this was basically a Christmas
movie to say that, but like it's it's it's very
interesting all of the different perspectives and takes that are
coming from this movie. So I'm I think it makes
complete sense that we are high key both about both.

Speaker 3 (01:01:58):
Yeah, we're both hike about it. I'm just honestly excited.
I'm high key to talk to literally everybody and like
debate about our perspectives. I just think I think this
was the best film a white guy ever made about
a white guy saving black people.

Speaker 6 (01:02:14):
But still he didn't even do that, Like h he
was so awful.

Speaker 5 (01:02:20):
But I will also say, like, also listen if you
are taking in you see the film, and you are
taking it in and you're currently in one battle after
another TikTok, which I am, and you're seeing all these
different takes. I do think there are some really interesting
takes from like black women critics that are worth listening to.
I think that when people are bringing up in a
collective voice this like experience that is like happening to

(01:02:42):
them while they are taking in this film and they're
being vocal about it in a really interesting way and
smart way, maybe we should listen. Maybe maybe, I don't know.
Maybe anyway, that's why either way we should, Yeah, we should.

Speaker 6 (01:02:54):
We should talk about it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:55):
Go argue with your friends, get in our pussies, go
see it in theaters. Literally, you know, no offense to
tron areas. You can suck my nipple.

Speaker 6 (01:03:05):
Yeah, the who the fuck wants to see that? Girl?
Manosphere people proudly manosphere.

Speaker 3 (01:03:11):
And then also just like three random faggots. I talked
to her like, yeah, I went and saw tron areas
and I'm like, have you seen the tron areas for
good films?

Speaker 6 (01:03:18):
Yes, say the kids film? Do people like take their
kids too?

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
Like?

Speaker 6 (01:03:21):
Do people with five year olds take their baby?

Speaker 5 (01:03:23):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
Okay, yeah that's it's also probably fierce and I do
love nine inch nails, so I'd go for the music.

Speaker 5 (01:03:31):
Well, I'm super excited about next week's episode because that's
a rap on this week's High Key.

Speaker 3 (01:03:35):
Obviously, this was a super spicy episode. This is a
spicy week for us.

Speaker 6 (01:03:41):
I like it.

Speaker 5 (01:03:42):
I like that that's what artists supposed to do, any
good art and hopefully our show does this.

Speaker 6 (01:03:46):
You know, there's a rap on on.

Speaker 5 (01:03:48):
High Key this week, but I hope our show can
also issue it, create these these moments, you know, create
these debates and these sort of conversations that really are important.

Speaker 6 (01:03:58):
So thanks for hanging out with us.

Speaker 5 (01:04:00):
I'm excited about next week's episode because it's the iconed
the legend and I mean out one hundred I kind
of the Year Award recipient Nissi freakin' ash.

Speaker 6 (01:04:11):
I cannot believe it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:13):
I'm like geekin, I'm so I don't even know what
I want to talk to her about because I just
used to watch her on my TV and she's a
real person.

Speaker 7 (01:04:21):
Reno nine one one, classy, yes claws, Well, yes it
was basically, but no, I'm so so excited, and either
you're gonna have a whole new I guess, brand new
little outfit to show.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
I will it's a little special something. Yeah, it's gonna
be Hallo week, so I'll probably dress up all the
way one hundred percent because people hate it when you're
just having fun and chasing your childhood dreams of being
Hillary Duff.

Speaker 5 (01:04:50):
I really got to figure out what I'm gonna do.
I don't know if I'm gonna do anything.

Speaker 6 (01:04:53):
Who knows.

Speaker 5 (01:04:53):
Well, if you are enjoying all of Evie's looks and
the show in general, drop us a five star review
on Apple podcast, are any sort of like you know, comments,
like subscribe.

Speaker 6 (01:05:04):
Anywhere on the social media.

Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
If you're not enjoying my looks, still leave us a
five star review, I think, yeah, but leave some critical
feedback and I'll tattoo it on my.

Speaker 5 (01:05:16):
Arm, which also could be useful as we are trying
to we want that engagement going up on our Instagram
at high Key here, So go ahead and start a
thread and talk about the crunchiness.

Speaker 6 (01:05:28):
If that is your Oh my god, this ship is over.

Speaker 3 (01:05:32):
We're not done arguing, all right, y'all, I'm kicking you
out of my house.

Speaker 6 (01:05:35):
Goodbye.

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:05:36):
That's If you're high key obsessed with our show, take
a second to follow or subscribe so.

Speaker 3 (01:05:47):
You never miss an episode. And while you're at it,
rate us, drop a review and tell your friends.

Speaker 5 (01:05:53):
If you want to keep the high key key going,
join us on Instagram and TikTok at high Key here,
and of course on Patreon, where we are literally dropping
all that spicy ass tea every week.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
See you there.

Speaker 5 (01:06:08):
Hi Key is a production of iHeart Podcasts as a
part of the Outspoken Network. This show is created and
executive produced by Ryan Mitchell, e Vi Addley.

Speaker 6 (01:06:16):
And Spoke Media.

Speaker 3 (01:06:17):
Our showrunner is Tyler Green. Our producers are Kelly Kolf
and Katie Alis Greer. Our video producer is Bo Delmore,
and our video editor is Luis Peiga.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
Our audio engineer Sammy Syrich.

Speaker 3 (01:06:28):
Special thanks to Jenna Burnett and Tess Ryan.

Speaker 5 (01:06:31):
Executive producers for Spoke Media are Travis Lamont, Ballinger, and
Aliyah Tavakolian.

Speaker 3 (01:06:35):
Our iHeart Team is Just Crime, Chicic and Sierra Kaiser.

Speaker 6 (01:06:39):
And our Fame music is by the one and only
Kayan Hersy and

Speaker 5 (01:06:43):
Our show art is by work by work, with photography
by Eric Carter