August 15, 2025 • 58 mins
Emmy-winning writer, producer, and actor Lena Waithe (The Chi, Queen & Slim) joins Yvie and Ryan for a bold, hilarious, and heartfelt conversation about the myths of success, the pursuit of happiness, and creating without fear. From judging RuPaul’s Drag Race to building Legacy Talk, Lena shares how she balances ambition with meditation, why she makes art for herself—not the crowd—and what it means to tell Black queer stories on her own terms. The conversation dives into Hollywood realities, the power of critique, and why horror might be the most exciting genre right now.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
That is what some of the best part does is
it causes us to have a conversation about it. Not
for everybody, go.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Y'all loved it me too? Yeah, yeah, thank you. What's up? Friends,
Welcome to High Key.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
I'm Ryan Mitchell and I'm Eviy Oddly and today we're
bringing your chat with the incredibly talented Lena.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Waithe Oh my god. We hit on so much.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
We talk about success, happiness, and honestly I stand her
after knowing how much she doesn't give a fuck about
what y'all think about her.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
That's right, And if you want access to bonus content
and behind the scenes, t join us for the afties
on Patreon.
Speaker 5 (00:44):
It's patreon dot com slash high Key here.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
We need to see you there. But first things first,
let's get into the show. Let's let's get into the
hikey key see.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Okay, this is so wild because I just started going
to therapy. Congratulations, you're welcome our like for the first
time ever. I mean, I did a few sessions with
like the on set therapist they had at Drag Race
All Stars. Yeah, but I don't know if that really
counts as real therapy. When she's like, hey, so what
(01:15):
about this fake, made up, man made situation is making
you sad today that hopefully you'll be able to deal
with on your own in the next nine months when
you get.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Because you're not leaving. Actually you're staying here for oh
my god.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Legitimately though, that was actually the one thing that was
our joke on set all the queens, because in the
beginning we're like, yeah, no one's going home, and then
like it became.
Speaker 5 (01:39):
Fucking trapped, nobody's going home.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Like they lied.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
They didn't actually lie about this RuPaul's drag race thing.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
It's actually a prison.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
I'm still there filming. This is too much, okay, right.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Congratulations on going to therapy. First, I hope, I hope
it's been a great session. You like your therapist.
Speaker 5 (01:59):
I like her.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
I just don't think I would have an issue with
almost any therapist, And I wonder if that's a problem
like it we'll see when it starts getting rough and
I'll start talking about my race relationships and my sexual deviances,
like yeah, I.
Speaker 5 (02:16):
Need to stick eight fists in my mouth at once otherwise.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
I won't be happy. Well.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
And then also the other piece of like hopefully she
hasn't gone and like looked you up and like she knows,
like like that you're a public figure.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I don't think they're supposed to.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
I told her she needs to to get some better
background upon why I may want to withhold things.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
I don't know if she said that she could would,
but I told her to.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
I told her to read my book all about Evie
and listen to my podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Hi key.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Literally, as I say, bitch, you better be subscribed. I
know that's right, just like everyone else. Shout out to
all of the new subscribers from Bob's podcast, so that like,
not from Bob's podcast, but Bob's episode, like insane shout out.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
To Yeah, welcome, welcome to my neck of the woods.
Y'all got just some weird shit. It's just it's me
and Ryan. We sound like the Muppets in this bitch.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
No for real.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
I was really, we're such a new show, right, like
that was our tenth episode.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Shout out to that, and it was just really nice.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
I think Bob was like the perfect person to come
on and like for us to have a moment of like,
you know, grilling him on everything that we wanted to know,
and then also like him grilling us, like I love
that energy, and a lot of folks, I guess in
the comments were like, I don't like how y'all are
trying to humble Bob. I'm like, Bob could never be
humbled at all. Like Bob is just like on another
(03:38):
level of confidence.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Also, that is literally what drag queen relationships are with
each other. Like drag queens are just another, yeah, another
version of really close gay friendship. And when you really
love another queer, you drag the shit out of them
all the time. You try to humble that bitch.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
That's how you know you're really locked in when you
can like start making fun of like folks are like
challenging them in like positive ways, and it's just, yeah,
I don't know. I'm honestly, I'm just happy that everyone
enjoyed the episode. Hopefully they're you know, excited about you know,
everything coming up, because we do have great guests and
more drag queens and all the things. Like I mean,
we we create a little party over here for ourselves,
(04:19):
which I love.
Speaker 5 (04:20):
I hope y'all are ready.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
I hope you brought chips because I just have a
lot of dip. We have a lot of dip between us.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
I say now you probably have a little bit more dip.
Oh my god, for a little bit long.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
Oh my god is out in the sun right now.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I bet your dip is. Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
Well, we have such a great show coming up today.
I'm very very excited about it. We have an incredible
person joining us, right Evie, who's coming on the pun today.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
We got Leno Waite coming to join us.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
We'll be right back. What's up friends, now, y'all?
Speaker 4 (05:04):
I know, just like how I feel about Evie, that
you are desperately wanting more of me and her after
an episode of High Key. Let's just be honest with ourselves,
like why are we sitting here lying like you're just
like I can't just wait every Friday for an episode.
I need more? So why not come join us at
the aftees.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
That's right, We're not kicking you out.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Hop on over to our Patreon and make sure that
a subscribe.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Absolutely, I mean, we are talking some crazy. We We
have covered everything from my business. I have a boy
that is in my life called Nasa Bay and that's
been juicy storytelling.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
Plus it all, it's.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Just oh my god, Yill. And we also react to
you a lot of.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Like the drama that goes on one of those drag
race subreddits. I'm kind of obsessed with them ever since
finding out about it, Like I'm always on there.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
Now this is crazy.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
You read it and come to the afties and let
us so.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Yeah, join us at patreon dot com slash high Key here.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
So. Our guest today is an Icond.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
I mean for sure when I mean she has a
podcast called Legacy Talk, but let's be honest, she is
the legend. She is an Emmy winning writer, producer, actor.
Y'all probably know our hits showed the Shy on Showtime,
which just got renewed for their eighth season, which is
kind of insane. And then of course you know she's
written everything else from I mean, what twenties Queen and Slam.
(06:34):
The list goes on and on. I mean, it's it's
absolutely incredible. I'm so excited that she's here on the show.
Welcome to High Key.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
You know what what's going on?
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Good morning, afternoon evening?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yes, all three. I'm so happy that you're able to
join the show.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Seriously, because obviously I think you have a special history
with both of us.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
I mean, oh.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah, Evey saw me sitting across a judge's table, which
isn't always id well, I'm.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
You know, not to make this about me, absolutely, you're leo.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Come on, I'm.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Curious to see or to hear like how that was
from your perspective, because if I'm being one hundred percent honest,
I could not tell you ninety percent of the people
who were judging last season, especially if you did not
help me win.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Oh got it? So you like Lyda, I don't remember
you really?
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Yeah, I'm like, you must have said some slick shit
about my outfit or something.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I remember it was dinnum. It was a denim challenge
I've Ben Finern. Yeah, yeah it was. It was the
one it was.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
So you came back.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Yeah, you came back for our makeover. That's why I
don't remember you.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Oh so wait, were you okay?
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Because I remember Lena and I had talked about this
and she was like, wait, I think Edie cried or
maybe I was like Edie couldn't have cried, like she
won her season, like I feel like.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Because they was coming at Evy though.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yeah, okay, So that's what I was gonna say, is like,
that's why I don't I don't remember the judges. I
don't remember RuPaul that week. I don't remember my own face.
That week was like just you came in on one
of the spiciest weeks because we had already gotten to
like the fake like.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
We're all top sisters. Now, look we made it to
the end of this shit. We're so fierce, We're past
all the drama.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
And then the producers were like, let's have all the
old bitches come back into the room and pair up
and just stir that pot again. So like you came
in the week where even though I was serving Kunt,
Scarlett was serving kunt. Yeah, all of those bitches saw
an opportunity.
Speaker 5 (08:38):
To be like, fuck this weird, ugly bitch.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
What year was that twenty twenty eighteen when we filmed
twenty nineteen when she aired work so leading.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
You actually had just did what the cover of Vanity
Fair at that time? Possibly, yeah, I think that was
that right after the Emmy's with so you were just
experiencing kind of like a next level celebrity of it
all whirlwind. But I was like super grateful to be
asked to come be a judge on Drag Race.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
I mean, that's a definite rite of passage, if you will,
a blessing from Big Rue. Uh, because I've been watching
for years. You know, I have friends on and whatnot.
So it's like a thing you nervous.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
You nervous to judge, Yeah, because you don't want to.
Because you also got to have jokes.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
You know, they're like, all right, as we watching and
some of they'll write for you. But like I'm a
I'm a comedy writer, so I have my little my
quick you know, I can go.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, you know, I was like, let's go.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
But the tricky thing is you have no context for
what's going on. They don't show you nothing. You just
sitting there and you just judging that week. And that's
what's really interesting because I don't know what the relationships are.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
I don't know what the alliances are.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Meanwhile, Michelle rue Ross, they all know what's going on.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
And you sitting there like first day of school.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
Yeah, you're like, well I liked I liked your your hair.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
No, no, no, I'm sorry she stole it from you.
I didn't know.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Yeah, yeah I had.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
I had Ryan's hairstyle then.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Yeah, she sure did. It's the it was the Denise
the Master of None hair. Yeah, I missed. I'm not
even gonna lie to you. I miss your Locke so much.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Thank you alone.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
They were so good and I just honestly, I remember
so much around that time too, because if I'm being honest,
that was like one of the first moments that I
was also introduced to you during that whole thing, Like
I knew of your work, but really like knowing the
like historic of you winning the Emmy and that was
such a historic win.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
And the Emmy goes to.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Is He's sorry and Lena Wade.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
I just felt like if I ever met you, I
was like, I would have asked you, well, girl, what
was like the first like celebrity conversation you probably had
after that win? Because I know everybody in they Mama
was trying to text you, everybody like you were just entered.
You had a new level of like access. I mean
I remember Reese Witherspoon was like obsessed with you at
the time, like still yeh steal it. You're like, but
(11:16):
I just what do you remember about that time and
how did you celebrate that that moment?
Speaker 1 (11:23):
You know, it's so interesting, Yeah, because you know, I
don't partake in alcohol, so I remember things pretty clearly.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
And I wasn't even like smoking weed that heavy at the.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Time, so so you're like, I know, awake, like sober
going through that experience is wild, right.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Emmy was not like a mountaintop for me. For me,
I just really wanted to be considered to be a
really great television writer, and I didn't associate that with
winning an Emmy. So getting one was really amazing and
fantastic and a beautiful journey to do that with Molina
and Angela Bassett and Kem Whitley and obviously Asease and
(12:05):
you know, Alan Yang, Like, it was.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Just a really cool experience.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
And because it was a first, that's the other thing
that was like, oh, so you're the first African American
woman to be nominated in this category. Yeah, you know,
and because when people got it very clear, like Wanda
Sykes won for a sketch Comedy Writing, which is a
different category, and the first woman of color to be
nominating that category was Minny Kaylin for an episode of
the Office. So I became the first half of americanan
to be nominated for Outstanding Writing in a Comedy Series
(12:30):
in that category. So it definitely also kind of hit
me with a sense of history in knowing that I'm
definitely not the first funny black woman to be in
a writer's room, but I definitely representing all these black
women who have been in writers' rooms and also my
heroes like Susan FIL's Hill, Evettlee Bowser, Debbie Allen, and
so many others that came before me, And it just
(12:51):
sort of like really hit me.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
And so the crazy thing was when.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
You were first black to win anything, there's usually a
standon ovation that follows. So there was a stand ovation
and it quarter mine. You can't miss Oprah Whitfrey standing
up applauding in.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
So that I always remember seeing like her standing up
and you're like made Oprah cat out of her fucking scene?
What yes?
Speaker 6 (13:14):
You know?
Speaker 1 (13:14):
And they tell you got forty five seconds. Only one
person can talk. Cauziz was like, you take the mic,
you know, obviously if it happens, and so like I
was ready for the moment because I had witnessed a
Halle Berry have a moment at the Oscars when I
was in high school and saw her take the moment
honoring Lena Horn and Dorothy Dandridge and you know, and
(13:38):
the people that stood alongside her, obviously, Angela Bastid, Jada Pink,
and Vivica Fox. That to me, like, Holly really showed
you how to make the moment not just about you,
but how to bring everybody with you, because nobody gets.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
To those moments alone.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
And and it's a tricky thing about mountaintops is that
you you enjoyed the view for a bit and then
you have to send and buy a new mountain to climb.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
Ooh, that's it.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Like sometimes you don't even really get to descend. It's
just people already see that you're on a mountain. They're like, damn,
you're just gonna forever be.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
On that mountain.
Speaker 5 (14:13):
Remember that one time you were on that mountain.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
You're like, yeah, but girl, do you see like this
is just the base of some whole new shit.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Ye yeah, just like a type of Mount Everest.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Yet, girl, ladies, can't you gotta kill killmanjar this whole thing?
Speaker 5 (14:26):
Girl, You're just on a rock here.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
You're like, well, this mountain was the biggest thing I've
ever seen, but that's before I stepped on it. Is
there anything you've ever done or achieved that made you
feel like a rapper?
Speaker 5 (14:38):
You know, you were like, yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
I did this shit on me, baby, Fuck you fam
fuck you fans.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
I mean, you know, honestly, it's like a rapper which
one that's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Actually a lot of clips have I draked, you know.
I think for me creating the shop and getting that
created by title, that credit, that's something that you know,
coming up under Marl rock A Kiel, Annie Bettley, Bowser,
Ava DuVernay as well Jennifers Bye who has also created
(15:12):
her own shows.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Obviously Debbie Allen.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
It's like having to created by title meant something really.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Big to me.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
That's something I think I drinked about more than winning
an award because I think it was about can I
create a show that has my stamp, my signature, my voice,
my rhythms in it, and so for the shy And
also I think another big mo will happened recently. We
had our highest viewed episode this season of season seven,
Hello come on in paramount plus.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Number one on the on the app.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Yes, I mean, I think to me, it's really about
that longevity rather than a mountaintop, but rather a marathon,
and it's about being not being hot for a short
time but being warm for a long time. And when
you think about that too, which is so interesting, like
getting to that moment and having your show be a
(16:03):
ten post show for a network, and as a creator,
that's like, oh, that's my dream.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I want to have a television show.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
I want to make something and my stamp and then
thou open up having money and access and that will
be the key to my happiness. But is it though,
was it the key to your happy?
Speaker 6 (16:22):
Well?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Of course not, no, no, no no. I think where
people get tripped up. All of society gets tripped up
because we are taught and told and fed that success
is the same as happiness. Yeah, and so.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Therefore we chase success hoping to be happy.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
And then when you are successful and you get all
your success, you start to think that, well, why am
I not happy? And so then the success starts to
feel like a trap.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
Like a curse.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
So almost like somebody is congratulations and you're like, shut
the fuck up.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Well, the thing is is that you know what's cool
is like because someone could argue like, we have a
successful show, yeah, right, but that has nothing to do
with why I'm happy?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Why are you happy?
Speaker 1 (17:15):
I'm happy because I meditate every morning I'm out on
social media a time. I've curated my community around me.
I have no issue set in boundaries. I know that
I have to take life as it comes, and then
I'm gonna be both happy and said and I should
embrace both when they happen.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Oh that's so legit something you learned.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
I mean you're forty one now, correct? Is that something
that took you time to really learn? Because I am
someone that I'm so like career minded. I mean, I
moved out here literally August is my tenth year in
LA come through. But I have been so reflective of
like this moment of like when I started here, I
was twenty two, had no money, I was sharing a
(18:00):
part a two bedroom apartment with three people. Ooh, and
I was living with like rats and like and had
all these things like literally and I like imagine that
Ryan who was like really trying to figure it out.
And then like it felt like I had my own
the prize and knew where I was going, and then
life was like, actually, we're gonna take you this way,
(18:21):
and it was just a whole other lesson to like learn.
But I felt like, well, I don't have time to
rest right now. I got to get to the destination.
I got to get to the moment where I do
have the money in my bank account where I can
help my family. I do have the access level where
people respect who Ryan Mitchell is when he walks in
a room.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
But you know what's interesting about that is like I actually,
like I knew that that was the vibe that I
was on when I was young and hungry. I was like, bitch,
I am. I'm like young and hungry. I've got my
whole life ahead of me. I know that I could
do anything, and so like I just want to like
prove to myself that I'm capable of greatness. And I
(19:03):
know that someday I'm gonna be looking back at this, like, Damn,
look how tight your skin was.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
I mean, my kindness, Like I have for sure like
worked out of that.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Like I have learned that overworking yourself is really just
someone like draining you of all of the goodness that
is within you. And they will allow you to overwork
yourself if you let them.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
But I've had to learn that.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
And so I wonder for you, Lena, how long did
it actually take you to really come to this moment
that where you've learned, like I don't have to be
working twenty four to seven or I have to be
on this train that is like go go, go, go go.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Well, you know, it's interesting because I work a nice amount,
but even like right now working on season eight and
Legacy Talk the season second season of that, and it's
technically I don't get paid to do Legacy Talk, like
I fund that, Like yeah, so that's something that I
want to put on in the world. And and the
payment the dividends and that are people saying, hey, I
(20:03):
learned something from that Tasher Campbell episode, or I learned
something from watching that episode, you know with Debbie Allen.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
I guess you could say I'm addicted to what I do.
Speaker 7 (20:12):
If that is a workaholic, I love what I do
and I gravitate towards it.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
That's the capital someone getting something out of it.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
The shy actually pays me in capital but also pays
me and people saying yeah yeah, people say like, yo,
this really moved me or this episode made me do
this or do that.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
That's really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
I'm doing a play that nobody paid me to write,
but it's the most exhilarating thing I've ever done. And
I'm going to be performing it next year in Baltimore
and Baltimore Centers Stage February twelfth through March twenty eighth,
market calendars, Come and see us Trinity, directed by Stevie
Walker Web And the thing is is, I'm working a
(20:59):
nice them out, but out of those three things, I'm
only getting paid to do one of those things technically.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
Yeah, which feels like the creator's charity anyway.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Like yeah, so it's about like, but I'm being fed
by legacy talk, I'm being fed by the play, and
I'm being fed literally and figuratively by the shy. So
it's not about not being overworked, because the truth is,
I think to be really it's interesting because the word
successful can be trippy, but to me, in terms of
(21:29):
to be at the top of your game in any arena,
you have to be possessed. Yeah, So it's not about
if it's like, oh, man, like I'm tired, I want
to go to bed right now, or I want to
go kick it, you know what. I'm not even because
if someone can use the word disciplined, possessed really locked
in because if you value rest, that's cool.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
You know.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
It's like, but it's like if someone is saying, hey,
I'm gonna i'm I'm going to go the extra mile,
as someone may say I'm gonna rest a bit.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Both are right, both are right.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
But but I think what can happen is if you say, hey,
I chose rest over going the extra mile, and I
can't resent the person forgetting where they got a little
bit sooner than me because they made a different choice.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
That's something actually I was I was literally thinking about
yesterday because I always I keep I keep going back
to this interview that Jennifer Coolidge did last year where
she was.
Speaker 8 (22:28):
Like, yeah, I got tired after a while and I
just decided to take a break. But I kind of
regret that because you know, if life ever gives you
a wave to ride, you should ride on it. And
that's why I'm doing this this weird car insurance commercial
or whatever right now.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
Great, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
If I ever want to go through the horrors of
snatch game, I'll have her in my way.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
She's always good, she is.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
But like I, actually I hold space and respect and
value that mindset of like, damn, you have to realize that,
like Eminem said, you only got one shot. Do not
miss your chance to blow. This opportunity comes once in
a lifetime. Mom Spaghetti come through.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I love that Academy Award winning Barbara Barbara Streissaying would
have given it to him, but he didn't show up.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
But I remember watching Barbara siss and the winner is
for eight mile. He's not here. I want to tell
this the world on his bath.
Speaker 8 (23:27):
The Oscar goes to and the nam the chess pass
and the mess stuff for usath o mine.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
But I also say, too, Ryan, the terms are you
talking about when you first were out?
Speaker 2 (23:37):
You know?
Speaker 1 (23:37):
In LA ten year anniversary, I was celebrating twenty next
February twenties are here. So but the thing is like
who I was when I first came to LA is
its own chapter.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Oh for sure, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
And so it's not about like, oh, how did you
get to here? I got to hear from every step
that came before it. And you know, I did do
a silent I did a silent retreat. I diviposstaa ten
days of observing noble silence, meditating four hours a day,
fasting like you know, and not like all this.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
You eat a meal, but.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
It's like you're not eat as much as no one
normally would by my daily life. But I think what
that does is it kind of takes you sort of
live in like a monk for ten days. So it
kind of takes the ego away and takes away like
you just sort of your what you're used to doing
all the time. And so, and I didn't do that
until I had just turned forty, so because I think
I was sort of ready to do that. Then it
did it again this year, and I was inside a
(24:29):
solid retreat when I turned forty one. And I also,
I think a really big thing is I don't check
my phone first thing in the morning. I can't check
it until after I've meditated. So it's like, well, if
I want to talk to my phone, I gotta medit.
I treat meditated meditation like brushing my teeth or like
washing my face. It's something that is a part of
my daily routine. But it changes the dynamic of the
(24:53):
way I walk through the world because I don't prioritize
the world before I prioritize myself. And I think ninety
percent of people wake up in the morning immediately check
their phone. And so what you're saying to the universe
is where are my priorities. The phone is the priority.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Not me.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Well do you miss because I mean, Lena, you are
someone who everyone has something to say about, Like, let's
just be quite honest, right, whether it's your work or
whether it's you. Was that a part of the reason
why you decided to like kind of leave.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Social because you're on social but it seems like.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
You're not like on it, on it, like in the
ways that you weren't used I guess you used to be.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting because in terms
of everyone having something to say, everyone have an opinion.
The interesting thing is it doesn't affect either party. So
a person's opinion of me doesn't affect my daily life,
(25:55):
but also their opinion of me doesn't affect their daily
life either. So it's a matter of Okay, how is
this playing a role in my life? And it doesn't
It can't. I mean, I could allow it, but I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
How I have to gain. Are there not positives to hearing?
Speaker 8 (26:17):
What?
Speaker 4 (26:17):
I guess an audience that you're catering to are not
even catering to. But the audience that you're making your
the art for that is going to gravitate to your
assuming it right, is there is there is there a
positive to listening to what they have to say about it,
so that can.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Inform your next works.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
Are like how you tell a story that may represent them?
Are like hitting home or like what's the process of
you taking in feedback in that way?
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Well, I think for artists or creatives, we are in
conversation with ourselves.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
That is just a complete sentence.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yeah, that's the whole episode, honestly, hit down.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
So it's sort of like I try to think of
an example. I mean, I'll use like Miseducation Lauren Hill
for example, like a very pivotal album and my youth.
I don't know what she had the audience in mind,
and I think because of that, it is a timeless
piece of work. And so I don't believe in catering
(27:27):
to an audience because then I'm in service to the
audience rather than service to myself or to a higher spirit,
a higher power. So now mind you am I aware
of like saying, hey, conversation or what's happening to me?
Whatever the conversation is about, the work is actually an
(27:50):
education for me about where society sits in this moment.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Oh okay, okay, Okay, you have me now, because like
I think it's I think there is this beauty and
just being able to create for your sake, but you know,
like just to just to be real about it, like
when we're making art at at least at the levels
we are, you know, this should is also paying your bills.
Speaker 5 (28:16):
This should is also like like.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Opening or closing your opportunities to make more art. So like,
I don't know, I just feel like there has to
be a better way to like find some balance in it,
you know, like it's important for me at least to
know like how people are receiving what I'm doing, because
art is a social commentary, because our culture is a
(28:42):
social commentary on art.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Art is it doesn't change based on people's opinions. Yeah,
it is what it is. You can't change it. There's
no going back and saying, hey, let me make this
nicer for you, you know. And so also what you
got a number two about artists.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
By the time I'm making my next thing, like the
other thing hasn't even come out yet, So I'm just
making work that speaks to me, like the play, nobody
paid me to do that I have to make sure
I feel good about it and my trusted confidence or
people who I value their work, I say, hey, what
do you think When Debbie Allen reads it, it says to
(29:19):
be a note, It says, hey, I really enjoyed this.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Okay, got it, thank you.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
And so it's almost means that if somebody walks out
and says I loved it, if somebody walks out and
says I hate it, they both are correct.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
They both are right.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
And so that that to me is that is that's
somebody said, like, well, why did you hate it? Or
I hate it because it was it was this or
triggered me, or it was slow? Why did you love
it because it was slow and because it triggered me.
So you know, it's like I really, I really encourage
artists like to make making work is to be a
(29:57):
conversation with yourself, and then let the work be in
conversation with society, because once you give it to society,
it no longer belongs to you. But they also can't
tell you necessarily what it is. They can just tell
you what they brought to it.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Okay, I'm curious, then, how much space do you think
artists should hold for in general critique or feedback outside
of the areas that feel comfortable.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
Well, especially when you you got like the approval of
Steven Spielberg. Hey, you know what I mean, like you
were in the prop so I actually I've always wondered
that too, even great point, how do you?
Speaker 2 (30:34):
How do you? Approval? Approval is a word I wouldn't
necessarily use.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
He saw my tape, his amazing cast and directors, I
think also pushed for.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Me a little bit.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
I take a credible away from miss Spielberg at all,
but you know, the callback, and they was helping me out.
And again he wasn't in the room when I audition,
thank god, but he saw something in me and wanted
to give me an opportunity to be in my first film,
and I'm grateful for that.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
I don't know if he necessarily approved of me.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
I wasn't looking for that, Yeah, but I'm you know,
words mean a lot, so I always it will be
thoughtful of it. But you know, But but the thing is,
in terms of here's the thing, there's this.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Old quote from like Donald Glover.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
It was a GQ and I don't want to paraphrase it,
but it was like I was still living in Chicago
at the times. It was a while ago, obviously, but
he said, I don't want to be the gather that
everybody likes. Yeah, And I remember like reading that and
not even really being able to digest it, but obviously
remembering it. And I think there's something too, you should
(31:45):
actually be nervous if everybody likes something. And so for me,
in order for as a writer, there's a rule of thumb.
You can't have a scene if both people agree yeah, yeah,
there's no scene.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
And so for me, there's this interesting thing I've noticed,
and I've picked up one where people kind of go, oh, well,
why do you feel with the criticism or the scrutiny
or whatever, And I always say, well, thank.
Speaker 6 (32:11):
God, yeah, thank god, because then it's almost it's not
to say that, oh I don't believe praise, but if
everyone's doing it, then there's a fear to speak about
what is true.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
So like, because.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Nothing is perfect, even the most amazing moves, somebody could
point things out, you know. And so at the end
of the day, I don't need everybody to love everything
I do.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
I need to love it.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Oh yeah, if I love it, then I like, I
want to hear the dialogue. I want to hear the
conversation around the work, and because to me, that is
what some of the best art.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Does, because it causes us.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
To have a conversation about it. Not everybody go y'all
loved it, me too, Yeah, yeah, you know. I don't
want to get into a place of nah, it's perfect.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
I don't want to hear nothing. You know, it's oh okay,
I didn't see that, Oh okay.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Fair And not to say why why must we always
look for what's wrong?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
But rather what are we bringing to it?
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Like whenever people and Ryn, I'm sure you probably asked
me this or someone asks me the junket uh, and
I get the question a lot is what do you
want people to take away from this movie or from
this show or from this I.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Want you to take away whatever you take away, and
let's fight about it.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
That's an answer as well. But to me, I always
say they gonna take away whatever.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
They bring to it. Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
It's like I don't get a say I have no
control because if somebody starts going this whole long dia
trial about what they want people to take away from
the work, then I don't know how pure that exchange
is gonna be Yeah, and it's it's so interesting, especially
when you think about the art that everyone is like
wanting more in the world and when you intersect that
(34:05):
with representation and seeing less and less of our stories
being told.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
When it comes to like queer media and queer storytelling specifically,
it's I find that the transition for you are the
next step into like theater is so interesting. And I wondered,
what is theater giving you that Hollywood isn't right now.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Uh, there's a lot of freedom. There are no walls,
there's no box. And then the thing about the theater
space is like having whipping your phone out is like
lighting a cigarette on the airplane.
Speaker 4 (34:41):
Interesting. That's so interesting. I never thought about it like that.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Yeah, yeah, I mean literally when you know, obviously I
was going to a bunch of shows and this this
Broadway season, past Broadway season, and so every now and then,
because there are there are you know, ushers, and there
are amazing people that work at these these theaters, and
when someone pulls a phone out, there's a flashlight.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
They get you with media, whether.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
You're texting obviously you're not supposed to be taking pictures of whatever,
but you and the thing is it's meant to obviously
not to disturb the performers or the audience members, but
it's this it's like the most embarrassing thing. You never
want the flashlight to hit you, you know.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
It's like it's like ah of some sorts.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Absolutely, it's like put the phone away. And so what's
interesting about that is and obviously I have a television
show that airs, and so I'm competing with everybody's phone,
you know, because if you're sitting at home, you know.
And so what's great about you know, whether I see
a one act play or a musical with an intermission,
we are present, like in that moment with the performers,
(35:40):
with ourselves, with the audience.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
And when you leave.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
There's a reason why most folks have plans to go
to have dinner after a show, dinner and a show,
you know, and so and it's because you want to
discuss what you just experienced, even more so than saying watched.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
I think it's just really interesting and I'm excited to
see your your show on in this kind of new
journey of you in in the theater space, because I
do think it's it's always important to find to spread
your wings and spread your art and spread your abilities
to like go from the screen to the stage, and
like especially I feel like theater is a space really
(36:18):
where black queer folks can shine. And I think we've
seen that more and more over the years. And it's
not always been that way, of course, but I do
think there's more of a space. And I want to
talk a little bit about legacy talk as we're kind
of wrapping up. Let's do it because I know it's
it's it's in its second season. It just wrapped, very
very excited about it. Who's on your Matt rushmore of legends?
Speaker 1 (36:44):
I mean, well, you know this season we talked to
obviously Tiha Campbell.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
That episode is available right now. It's so good.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
By the way, well, thank you so much. I don't
know if I'm giving anything away out of my team
make up one, then who's who I'm saying, Like, you know,
this season we have a lot of like Taraji be
Henson and Avid Duverney, Felicia Rashad, you know, so we
have a lot of, uh, but also like Kim Whitley,
you know, pulled up this season, Loretta Devine, like people
(37:12):
that some folks you know, might not you don't normally
see them sit down and have conversations.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
She should Camilos one of those people too.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
I think, to me, what's cool about Legacy Talker is
that we only talk about is if people have seen it,
they have you know that we really just talk about
the career. It's very influenced by you know, inside the
actors studio. Uh and in terms of speaking about certain roles,
how they came to, how those roles came to them
(37:38):
while they made certain decisions, and because you know, a
big thing to me was I remember talking to Jada
in season one. I was so curious how much of
her career was crafted by her, how much of it
was sort of crafted by God, because for her to
be where she was at that time, you know, like
a captain hot tear roof, ready to go. It's like
(37:58):
Debbie Allen sees her, It's like, yes, come be on
a different world. And obviously the Hughes brothers, I'll say, yeah,
come be a minister of society, and GARYT. Gray is
like come being set it off.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
And so not kind.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
She's like, well, you know, but those movies and that
those directors at that time you were saying, We're like, oh,
you're what we need for this thing. And and I
think the fact that she revealed to us that Rosie
Perez originally was supposed to be in low down, dirty shame,
you know, and then something happened with scheduling, and obviously
Keenan was like, oh, well, Jada can do it. And
(38:30):
so I think that to me is really interesting because
the journey is we don't really have a ton of
control over we have it. We have control over how
we're willing to lean in, But it's about when those
opportunities come, how much are we willing to step up
and say, I don't care what's going on in my life.
I'm going to rise to the occasion and do this
because this is my destiny. So there are some people,
That's the thing about legacy talk. I mean, a lot
(38:50):
of these people are like, you know, they're not elders.
If you will, they're still aunts, you know. But it's
like it's important to document these kindsversations because the conversation
that was also very much inspired this was the conversation
between Nicki Giovanni and James Baldwin.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
And that Nikki is very young.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
I mean she's in her like twenties, and she asked
Ellis Haslip, queer black man who had a show called
Soul exclamation Point, a really beautiful documentary about his life.
He was cool with all the young poets and he
was talking to Nicki Giovanni and he said, who do
you want to talk to?
Speaker 2 (39:25):
She was like Jimmy Baldwin and she was like, I'm
cool with him. I can make it happen. He lives
in London.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
We'll fly you out, and so they did, and that
kind I just I stumbled upon that conversation on YouTube
after we had just wrapped Queen and Slim, and so
it was almost this interesting gift because I was like,
I was like, I was like, damn, I wish I
would have seen this while I was because it's the
whole thing that quinnys. It was almost a conversation between
men and women and this whole thing. But Essace, I
think God brought it to me after to say you
(39:52):
are a part of this lineage too. This is about
a dialogue between two people who may not always see
things exactly the same way, but yet can still meet
somewhere in the middle.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
It's so far in peace and also it's interesting like
getting there at a specific point, because you know, you
never know if what you had to say would have
been influenced differently. I think that's the fact that when
we were taping season eleven, season ten was airing, and
all we wanted to do so badly whenever we got
(40:22):
out of the workroom after throwing our pussy's on the
ground and screaming at each other, was see what the
other bitches were doing the year before, and they tried
their hardest to make sure that we couldn't. And I
think it actually makes sense because that way you can
like lock in with your own perspectives and then you
go back later and you're like, oh my god, it's
so trippy to see that I was continuing these conversations,
(40:44):
that these people had a different perspective than me.
Speaker 5 (40:47):
It's like, it's how you get some whole, rich, real shit.
Speaker 4 (40:50):
And I love I have been in so many spaces,
especially being like the sometimes the only black queer person
in a space where you bring up like our legends
names in these white spaces like they have no clue.
Oh yeah, So for you to be a part of
making sure those legacies don't stop and those stories don't stop.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
And the history doesn't stop.
Speaker 4 (41:14):
It's so valuable and so important because, yeah, we have
to be I've had to be in spaces where I've
had to know who Sarah Jessica Parker was, and.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
I also have to know who Tisha kick Boy.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
As you know, our stories are not required viewing. Oh
work for everybody. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. So
we have to watch The Godfather, we have to watch
the Sopranos, we have to watch Mad Breaking Mad. Yeah,
we don't have to watch Power Baby Boy. You know
what I'm saying. Our minister society.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
See, I've got a white husband and the first like
three or four years of our relationship was him being like,
how do you not know led Zeppelin?
Speaker 1 (41:52):
And me being like, well there are some black folks
on our fans of led Zeppelin.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
But it's like I can say, how do you not
jo Toasy? How do you not know Jodasy? Hike even?
Speaker 4 (42:06):
Do you want to ask Lena our stable question on
high Key everybody that we have?
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Yeah, yeah, okay, So we've talked in a lot of
ways about like things here into things that bring you joy,
but I have to ask just generally right now, what
are you Hikey about like, what what is what has
got you high key? It could be something an object
and experience.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
I thought, what about Yeah, high key about theater for sure,
all of his forms, all of his forms, you know,
regional theater, Broadway theater. And I'm I think, I'm I'm
high key about meditation for sure. For sure, meditation, like
(42:51):
I do, here's a deal. And some people may feel
like it's an extreme amount, and I don't. I don't
encourage people to start this way. I have to work
my way up. But I'm meditate for an hour?
Speaker 4 (43:00):
What does that mean? You're just sitting there for an hour? Yees,
sitting quietly in one space.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
You're not moving? Yeah, no, you don't move? Okay?
Speaker 3 (43:07):
Does does it still count as meditation?
Speaker 5 (43:10):
If you've got jazz.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
On in the background, it could count as whatever you choose,
you know, I think because I don't think there's any like,
I don't believe in rules for meditation.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
You meditate however you need to do it.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
But I think for me, because the mission is to
hear myself, quiet is important for me. And the thing
that sort of happened is a person will come up,
a person will cross my mind or my spirit and
I'll remember that because you happen to the first thirty minutes,
and so that when my alarm goes off after the
hour I turned my phone on, I'll then often text
(43:43):
to reach out to protel you came up for me
this morning my meditation, and they'll it's happened about ninety
percent of the time. They'll say, oh, my god, I was
thinking of you yesterday, or like, are your ears ringing
like I mentioned you this morning? Yeah, And I always say, oh,
I don't. I just you know, I just wanted to
hit you. And they're like, okay, well thank you, and
how are you? Like I'm well, how are you? And
(44:04):
and so for me, whenever that happens, I always say, oh,
it's okay.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
We're tapped in.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
And so I think we live in a world full
of noise, so we can't hear our own voices. So
no jazz, No jazz for me, because you can't do
it because jazz is cool because it's not lyrics often
so that way you can still hear.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
So But to me, I think what.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
I found when I was observing noble silence for ten days,
you realize how much we are distracting ourselves from ourselves.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Well, I just want to say, like, I love I
love that mindset, and that like you really should be
surrounded in silence so that you can focus on yourself.
And you are clearly so fucking privileged for being able
to be in a silent place anywhere on this planet.
Speaker 5 (44:49):
This is a loud hoss planet.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
What the fuck are you talking about? That's what the jazz.
Here's another thing. It doesn't have to be quiet for
you to get quiet. O WHOA work.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
And there have been times where I've had to meditate
in places that are not my home, in places where
I don't have control over the environment, and those are
often the best meditative hours because even though I can't
make the world, I can't make the world slow down
in order for me too, I can't make the world
get quiet in order for me too.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Then I'll be waiting forever.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
So even if there's music playing or someone's talking, what
it does is it reminds me that it's okay for
that to be happening.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Yea, and for me to get to have mind over matter.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
And for me to get quiet, because if everybody's yelling
around me, it's okay for me to be quiet. Because
even if you see, like you say, like on social media, right,
like everybody will say, oh, this person we coming after today.
To me, it's sort of like I'm looking at the
group of people coming after the one, not the person
they're coming after, because I like to scrutinize, scrutiny, and
(46:00):
so it's to me, it's like, what is everybody doing?
And then not to be a contrariant, but rather to
be an observer. Yeah, this is this is a desire
for people to belong to something, even if it's something
that isn't kind. They'd rather belong to something that isn't
grace or kind or warm than to feel as if
they are on the outside. And that to me is educational.
(46:23):
So it's all you rather be a part of the
mob than be chased by one.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
That you pulled off of being as tied to social
media because like that's all I see when I get
on now either either like people just enacting this mob behavior,
not even always in such a negative way, it's like
still the mob behavior when everyone's like, oh my god,
this pop star is the most important thing in the
world right now, or like this song or like this
(46:52):
moment is like the most important thing, and we have
to love it.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
It's a desire to belong. It's a desire to belong.
And so then what happens is and then it's like,
what is everyone's taste?
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Actually?
Speaker 1 (47:03):
What does everybody actually like for real? Or just that
you're supposed to write so? And then h goes back
to should we be nervous if everybody likes it?
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Right? Right? But that's why it's like I'm over here saying, like,
you know, hey, to love it.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Don't just go with the crowd, you know what I mean,
because then it's like you ain't gonna really stick.
Speaker 4 (47:22):
That's why I love the phrase touch grass, because I
think everybody needs to touch grass at least once or
twice the day I.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Was the thing to who more than this? Touch grass?
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Smoke, Sma, get quiet, Thank you for being hike, thank you.
Speaker 5 (47:40):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
My favorite thing about that interview is I believe how
deeply Lena like is brought peace by meditating every day.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
I still want to see the moment when she.
Speaker 3 (47:52):
Cracks, so I know, I know, like omens swear like
the piece isn't there and you're like, oh wait, that's right.
I am still just like this flesh and blood and
like carnal instinct and natural like whatever Darwinism genes.
Speaker 4 (48:09):
I always wonder, especially around wellness talk, I always wonder
how much is it of it? Like does it turn
into a performance? Like it sometimes doesn't feel genuine to me.
And I'm not saying her journey of like you know,
wellness and silence and meditation isn't genuine, because I think
it genuinely is. But I've just been in so many
wellness spaces where I think I've seen them being like weaponized,
(48:31):
and I've seen them like be sort of performative where
it starts to blur into like this like toxic like
niceness or toxic you know, positivity, And I'm just like.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
Yeah, I'm not into it. I don't think I really
get it.
Speaker 4 (48:44):
Like the first time I met you, and like the
first thing you said was, oh, I sunbathed my asshole,
and I thought, oh my god, here's another wellness girl.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
Ly she's about to get us meditating this shit.
Speaker 5 (48:56):
Well that was a joke.
Speaker 6 (48:59):
Ryan.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
The sun can't reach my whole through the forest, but
I do be trying, though.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
I feel like you can't. It most definitely can't reached
the place. Is Thatty? Came.
Speaker 5 (49:12):
It definitely does.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
That's like the part of having a no ass ass
body is like, you know, I bend over and literally
my insides come out. And I know that's like a
really harsh way to put it, but it is. That's
that's legit, like my crux in life because people are like, wow,
that's a bottom and I'm just gonna stick my finger
in that thing. Like that was my first experience at
(49:34):
the gay club. And it's not my fault that my
hole is presenting herself like she's ready.
Speaker 4 (49:39):
I just have to say, she's on front, she's she
is the Beyonce to your Disney child.
Speaker 3 (49:43):
I think we should get into some some realty. What
are the real high keys? What is the highest key
for you this week?
Speaker 5 (49:50):
Bitch?
Speaker 2 (49:50):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (49:51):
The highest key for me has to be what I
think everyone is talking about. Shout out to the last
ca Jurista's you know awards that Bow and Yang and
Matt Rogers put on on Bravo. They've obviously been doing
It's a comedy Awards show because I couldn't believe some
people weren't getting the joke when they made the nominations
(50:13):
and people were like what is this and like there
was a journalist that was trying to drag them because
they put a content creator in the like journalism category
and it was just like, girl, it's a.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
Joke, like fuck would be for real.
Speaker 4 (50:25):
But I love the specific moment from the Awards show
with Ben Platt singing diet Pepsi through like an orchest
with an orchestra, and it has been like all over
the internet.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
When we tried in your car on your Baby was
in the back sage.
Speaker 4 (50:42):
I love some Ben Platt. He I think a lot
of people have opinions about him. However, Comma, you cannot
say he is not a vocalist and that white boy
can sing even though he'd be looking otis hell and
that dear Eva Hanson movie. But he is incredible. He's
one of the best like Broadway stage performers and singers
of I think of our generation. And he just like
(51:03):
made that song case like he literally Kelly Clarkson the
fuck out of that Addison Ray song. So I'm hikey
obsessed with it. I'm highly obsessed with it.
Speaker 3 (51:11):
I am said, Okay, well now I have to go
and watch that immediately super late because the only thing
I ever think about when I think of bem Platt
the ten seconds I remember interacting with him somewhere in
drag Race world and being like, oh, you've got a boyfriend, Gary, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
So it is his boyfriend. I think it is Noah.
I think they're still dating.
Speaker 7 (51:35):
Yeah yeah, I think I actually stage. I think they're
like full of like, oh great, yeah great. First of all,
you have all the partners.
Speaker 4 (51:45):
I need one still, you can borrow some girl like.
Speaker 3 (51:50):
I don't love lover. I only love one person all
the time, and that is Jesus. Okay, now, what's hikey about? Okay,
aside from Jesus and every man ever, I am so
high key about horror. And I know that is such
a broad high key, but I just went and saw
(52:12):
two different horror movies in the last two days.
Speaker 5 (52:15):
I saw together.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
You know, this could be the beginning roll over. You're
a mayor of something wonderful too.
Speaker 5 (52:26):
And I saw weapons.
Speaker 3 (52:28):
We're talking about seventeen kids and one classroom.
Speaker 5 (52:33):
I want to know what happened in that classroom.
Speaker 3 (52:35):
Why just her classroom, Why only her children?
Speaker 2 (52:39):
Everyone has been talking about weapons.
Speaker 3 (52:41):
I just think in general, both of them makes such
a beautiful statement about what horror is giving people right now,
because right now I feel like horror is the only
genre where you can tell whatever story you want and
move whatever way you want. Like the last couple of
horror movies I've seen have really started out as a
(53:02):
horror movie, but we're like a buddy rom calm, or
like a deep love story, or like they just have
gotten so smart, Like all the best movies of this
year have been horror movies. Twenty eight years later, Sinners.
Speaker 5 (53:18):
Like Together and now like Weapons.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
I also don't.
Speaker 4 (53:23):
Feel like Sinners was that like as scary When I
think about it now, I don't necessarily feel like it's
a horror film, but I guess it is.
Speaker 3 (53:31):
Maybe that's exactly it is, Like everything has to be
billed as a horror film now to get bitches into
the audience seats. They are over Marvel. Those numbers were
really cute in their box office opening weekends this year,
and I just like dip dip dip dipped. But they
will see something where they're like, ooh, maybe it's gonna
be scary, and then they leave the theater being like.
Speaker 6 (53:52):
I never knew I needed love like that.
Speaker 4 (53:57):
You know, I still need to we still need to
do like a like a movie watch night of like
all these like scary movies, because I can't do it
with anyone else except for you. I feel like you're
low key like the queen of horror in a lot
of different ways, like that's just your ship. And as
I say, I don't.
Speaker 2 (54:13):
Drag them, track them, but I want to. I want
to see.
Speaker 4 (54:19):
I would see weapons, even though weapons look so scary.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
Oh my god, I look so scary.
Speaker 5 (54:24):
Yeah it was, it was. It was a little scary.
Speaker 3 (54:28):
It was, it was, but then it turned funny and cute. Okay,
like tasteful. Everything has been tasteful. We're gonna do some
tasteful horror night together.
Speaker 2 (54:39):
I would love that.
Speaker 4 (54:40):
But you know what's not scary though, making sure you're
fucking like commenting and reviewing this podcast.
Speaker 2 (54:46):
We need it.
Speaker 4 (54:47):
Actually, that might be scary if you don't, if you
have social anxiety and you don't want to leave comments
or refuse, which I'm sending love to you. But I
need everyone else to make sure that they are like
supporting the pod. We are so new and we're great
and we're getting great responses. Shout out to the community
we're creating. I mean, please subscribe to us on the
Apple Podcast, like, do all the reviews because we want
(55:10):
five star ratings.
Speaker 2 (55:11):
Please. You know it would be great.
Speaker 3 (55:13):
If we can think yeah and tell us what you
think of our voices. Just use the one word that comes.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
To your adverst.
Speaker 4 (55:21):
I want to describe my voice as a synthesizer mixed
with like Gilbert Godfrey.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
I'm like, I get it.
Speaker 4 (55:29):
You hate my voice first of all, so that's always
been Everyone has hated my voice since I've entered into broadcasting.
Speaker 2 (55:36):
But I think that's what makes me special. I can't
help it.
Speaker 5 (55:39):
Not everybody, I will say.
Speaker 3 (55:41):
Literally, after every episode, I get a little bit jealous
because my husband's like, I listened to your new show,
and he's like, I just I love Ryan's voice, playing
with his nipples and tweaking himself. I'm like, this is
too much. I want a divorce. And then he's like,
and also, I love you.
Speaker 2 (55:57):
Too, baby. I had no clue coming between a happy home.
Speaker 5 (56:02):
No, you're coming lots of places girl.
Speaker 3 (56:04):
Oh okay, stop it, I'm not getting divorced.
Speaker 2 (56:10):
Okay, So I think that's our show, right. That was great.
Speaker 3 (56:14):
I love today's show, yes, oh yes, But if you
want to hear more team, Make sure to subscribe to
our Patreon high key here because I've got more shit
to talk about the yard sale.
Speaker 5 (56:27):
People think I'm quitting.
Speaker 4 (56:28):
Drag I know, and like I it's so interesting how
that like took fire and spread all over the drag
race reddits and let all the people in the comments
like we got to talk about it all, especially some
of the things that I feel like we didn't get
to bring up with Bob so handy Vilena.
Speaker 2 (56:45):
So head over to the afties.
Speaker 5 (56:47):
Head over to the aftes.
Speaker 3 (56:49):
Oh, especially because next week is my birthday and I
hear we've got a surprise, Like I legit, don't know
what it is.
Speaker 2 (56:59):
I know, I'm very excit. It's your birthday, you know.
Speaker 4 (57:01):
Yeah, I still cannot believe that we're doing a show
with an August Leo in a July Leo. Like this
is just blowing my mind. And I feel like it's
my karma for how much shit I've talked about August Leo's.
Speaker 2 (57:12):
Love me I already do.
Speaker 4 (57:15):
You're literally changing my perception of August Leo's and I
will no longer call them tmu virgos.
Speaker 2 (57:21):
I will no longer do it.
Speaker 5 (57:22):
Oh, I will no longer cry about that after today
until next week. Stay messy, suck my dick, Suck my dick,
Stay Hikey.
Speaker 3 (57:35):
Please ed decorum, suck my decorum. If you're hike obsessed
with our show, take a second to follow or subscribe.
Speaker 5 (57:48):
So you never miss an episode.
Speaker 3 (57:50):
And while you're at it, rate us, drop a review
and tell your friends.
Speaker 4 (57:54):
If you want to keep the hike Key going, join
us on Instagram and TikTok at Hie here and of
course on Patreon, where we are literally dropping all that
spicy ass.
Speaker 2 (58:05):
Tea every week.
Speaker 5 (58:07):
See you there.
Speaker 4 (58:09):
Hi Key is a production of iHeart Podcasts as a
part of the Outspoken Network. This show is created and
executive produced by Ryan mitchell E, vi Adley and Spoke Media.
Our show runner is Tyler Greenon.
Speaker 3 (58:19):
Our producers are Jonasanti, Jenna Burnette, and Tess Ryan. Our
video lead is Louis Pana, and our audio engineer is
Sammy Seiretch.
Speaker 4 (58:27):
Executive producers for Spoke Media our Travis Lamont, Ballinger and
Aliah Tacoli.
Speaker 3 (58:32):
Our iHeart team is Just Crime Chich and Sierra Kaiser.
Speaker 4 (58:35):
And our fame music is by the one and Only
Kayan Hersey and our show art is by work by work,
with photography by Eric Carter.
Speaker 6 (58:43):
Thank you,
That is what some of the best part does is
it causes us to have a conversation about it. Not
for everybody, go.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Y'all loved it me too? Yeah, yeah, thank you. What's up? Friends,
Welcome to High Key.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
I'm Ryan Mitchell and I'm Eviy Oddly and today we're
bringing your chat with the incredibly talented Lena.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Waithe Oh my god. We hit on so much.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
We talk about success, happiness, and honestly I stand her
after knowing how much she doesn't give a fuck about
what y'all think about her.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
That's right, And if you want access to bonus content
and behind the scenes, t join us for the afties
on Patreon.
Speaker 5 (00:44):
It's patreon dot com slash high Key here.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
We need to see you there. But first things first,
let's get into the show. Let's let's get into the
hikey key see.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Okay, this is so wild because I just started going
to therapy. Congratulations, you're welcome our like for the first
time ever. I mean, I did a few sessions with
like the on set therapist they had at Drag Race
All Stars. Yeah, but I don't know if that really
counts as real therapy. When she's like, hey, so what
(01:15):
about this fake, made up, man made situation is making
you sad today that hopefully you'll be able to deal
with on your own in the next nine months when
you get.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Because you're not leaving. Actually you're staying here for oh
my god.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Legitimately though, that was actually the one thing that was
our joke on set all the queens, because in the
beginning we're like, yeah, no one's going home, and then
like it became.
Speaker 5 (01:39):
Fucking trapped, nobody's going home.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Like they lied.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
They didn't actually lie about this RuPaul's drag race thing.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
It's actually a prison.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
I'm still there filming. This is too much, okay, right.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Congratulations on going to therapy. First, I hope, I hope
it's been a great session. You like your therapist.
Speaker 5 (01:59):
I like her.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
I just don't think I would have an issue with
almost any therapist, And I wonder if that's a problem
like it we'll see when it starts getting rough and
I'll start talking about my race relationships and my sexual deviances,
like yeah, I.
Speaker 5 (02:16):
Need to stick eight fists in my mouth at once otherwise.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
I won't be happy. Well.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
And then also the other piece of like hopefully she
hasn't gone and like looked you up and like she knows,
like like that you're a public figure.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I don't think they're supposed to.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
I told her she needs to to get some better
background upon why I may want to withhold things.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
I don't know if she said that she could would,
but I told her to.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
I told her to read my book all about Evie
and listen to my podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Hi key.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Literally, as I say, bitch, you better be subscribed. I
know that's right, just like everyone else. Shout out to
all of the new subscribers from Bob's podcast, so that like,
not from Bob's podcast, but Bob's episode, like insane shout out.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
To Yeah, welcome, welcome to my neck of the woods.
Y'all got just some weird shit. It's just it's me
and Ryan. We sound like the Muppets in this bitch.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
No for real.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
I was really, we're such a new show, right, like
that was our tenth episode.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Shout out to that, and it was just really nice.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
I think Bob was like the perfect person to come
on and like for us to have a moment of like,
you know, grilling him on everything that we wanted to know,
and then also like him grilling us, like I love
that energy, and a lot of folks, I guess in
the comments were like, I don't like how y'all are
trying to humble Bob. I'm like, Bob could never be
humbled at all. Like Bob is just like on another
(03:38):
level of confidence.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Also, that is literally what drag queen relationships are with
each other. Like drag queens are just another, yeah, another
version of really close gay friendship. And when you really
love another queer, you drag the shit out of them
all the time. You try to humble that bitch.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
That's how you know you're really locked in when you
can like start making fun of like folks are like
challenging them in like positive ways, and it's just, yeah,
I don't know. I'm honestly, I'm just happy that everyone
enjoyed the episode. Hopefully they're you know, excited about you know,
everything coming up, because we do have great guests and
more drag queens and all the things. Like I mean,
we we create a little party over here for ourselves,
(04:19):
which I love.
Speaker 5 (04:20):
I hope y'all are ready.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
I hope you brought chips because I just have a
lot of dip. We have a lot of dip between us.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
I say now you probably have a little bit more dip.
Oh my god, for a little bit long.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
Oh my god is out in the sun right now.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I bet your dip is. Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
Well, we have such a great show coming up today.
I'm very very excited about it. We have an incredible
person joining us, right Evie, who's coming on the pun today.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
We got Leno Waite coming to join us.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
We'll be right back. What's up friends, now, y'all?
Speaker 4 (05:04):
I know, just like how I feel about Evie, that
you are desperately wanting more of me and her after
an episode of High Key. Let's just be honest with ourselves,
like why are we sitting here lying like you're just
like I can't just wait every Friday for an episode.
I need more? So why not come join us at
the aftees.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
That's right, We're not kicking you out.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Hop on over to our Patreon and make sure that
a subscribe.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Absolutely, I mean, we are talking some crazy. We We
have covered everything from my business. I have a boy
that is in my life called Nasa Bay and that's
been juicy storytelling.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
Plus it all, it's.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Just oh my god, Yill. And we also react to
you a lot of.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Like the drama that goes on one of those drag
race subreddits. I'm kind of obsessed with them ever since
finding out about it, Like I'm always on there.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
Now this is crazy.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
You read it and come to the afties and let
us so.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Yeah, join us at patreon dot com slash high Key here.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
So. Our guest today is an Icond.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
I mean for sure when I mean she has a
podcast called Legacy Talk, but let's be honest, she is
the legend. She is an Emmy winning writer, producer, actor.
Y'all probably know our hits showed the Shy on Showtime,
which just got renewed for their eighth season, which is
kind of insane. And then of course you know she's
written everything else from I mean, what twenties Queen and Slam.
(06:34):
The list goes on and on. I mean, it's it's
absolutely incredible. I'm so excited that she's here on the show.
Welcome to High Key.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
You know what what's going on?
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Good morning, afternoon evening?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yes, all three. I'm so happy that you're able to
join the show.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Seriously, because obviously I think you have a special history
with both of us.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
I mean, oh.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah, Evey saw me sitting across a judge's table, which
isn't always id well, I'm.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
You know, not to make this about me, absolutely, you're leo.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Come on, I'm.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Curious to see or to hear like how that was
from your perspective, because if I'm being one hundred percent honest,
I could not tell you ninety percent of the people
who were judging last season, especially if you did not
help me win.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Oh got it? So you like Lyda, I don't remember
you really?
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Yeah, I'm like, you must have said some slick shit
about my outfit or something.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I remember it was dinnum. It was a denim challenge
I've Ben Finern. Yeah, yeah it was. It was the
one it was.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
So you came back.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Yeah, you came back for our makeover. That's why I
don't remember you.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Oh so wait, were you okay?
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Because I remember Lena and I had talked about this
and she was like, wait, I think Edie cried or
maybe I was like Edie couldn't have cried, like she
won her season, like I feel like.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Because they was coming at Evy though.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yeah, okay, So that's what I was gonna say, is like,
that's why I don't I don't remember the judges. I
don't remember RuPaul that week. I don't remember my own face.
That week was like just you came in on one
of the spiciest weeks because we had already gotten to
like the fake like.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
We're all top sisters. Now, look we made it to
the end of this shit. We're so fierce, We're past
all the drama.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
And then the producers were like, let's have all the
old bitches come back into the room and pair up
and just stir that pot again. So like you came
in the week where even though I was serving Kunt,
Scarlett was serving kunt. Yeah, all of those bitches saw
an opportunity.
Speaker 5 (08:38):
To be like, fuck this weird, ugly bitch.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
What year was that twenty twenty eighteen when we filmed
twenty nineteen when she aired work so leading.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
You actually had just did what the cover of Vanity
Fair at that time? Possibly, yeah, I think that was
that right after the Emmy's with so you were just
experiencing kind of like a next level celebrity of it
all whirlwind. But I was like super grateful to be
asked to come be a judge on Drag Race.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
I mean, that's a definite rite of passage, if you will,
a blessing from Big Rue. Uh, because I've been watching
for years. You know, I have friends on and whatnot.
So it's like a thing you nervous.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
You nervous to judge, Yeah, because you don't want to.
Because you also got to have jokes.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
You know, they're like, all right, as we watching and
some of they'll write for you. But like I'm a
I'm a comedy writer, so I have my little my
quick you know, I can go.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, you know, I was like, let's go.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
But the tricky thing is you have no context for
what's going on. They don't show you nothing. You just
sitting there and you just judging that week. And that's
what's really interesting because I don't know what the relationships are.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
I don't know what the alliances are.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Meanwhile, Michelle rue Ross, they all know what's going on.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
And you sitting there like first day of school.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
Yeah, you're like, well I liked I liked your your hair.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
No, no, no, I'm sorry she stole it from you.
I didn't know.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Yeah, yeah I had.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
I had Ryan's hairstyle then.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Yeah, she sure did. It's the it was the Denise
the Master of None hair. Yeah, I missed. I'm not
even gonna lie to you. I miss your Locke so much.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Thank you alone.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
They were so good and I just honestly, I remember
so much around that time too, because if I'm being honest,
that was like one of the first moments that I
was also introduced to you during that whole thing, Like
I knew of your work, but really like knowing the
like historic of you winning the Emmy and that was
such a historic win.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
And the Emmy goes to.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Is He's sorry and Lena Wade.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
I just felt like if I ever met you, I
was like, I would have asked you, well, girl, what
was like the first like celebrity conversation you probably had
after that win? Because I know everybody in they Mama
was trying to text you, everybody like you were just entered.
You had a new level of like access. I mean
I remember Reese Witherspoon was like obsessed with you at
the time, like still yeh steal it. You're like, but
(11:16):
I just what do you remember about that time and
how did you celebrate that that moment?
Speaker 1 (11:23):
You know, it's so interesting, Yeah, because you know, I
don't partake in alcohol, so I remember things pretty clearly.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
And I wasn't even like smoking weed that heavy at the.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Time, so so you're like, I know, awake, like sober
going through that experience is wild, right.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Emmy was not like a mountaintop for me. For me,
I just really wanted to be considered to be a
really great television writer, and I didn't associate that with
winning an Emmy. So getting one was really amazing and
fantastic and a beautiful journey to do that with Molina
and Angela Bassett and Kem Whitley and obviously Asease and
(12:05):
you know, Alan Yang, Like, it was.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Just a really cool experience.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
And because it was a first, that's the other thing
that was like, oh, so you're the first African American
woman to be nominated in this category. Yeah, you know,
and because when people got it very clear, like Wanda
Sykes won for a sketch Comedy Writing, which is a
different category, and the first woman of color to be
nominating that category was Minny Kaylin for an episode of
the Office. So I became the first half of americanan
to be nominated for Outstanding Writing in a Comedy Series
(12:30):
in that category. So it definitely also kind of hit
me with a sense of history in knowing that I'm
definitely not the first funny black woman to be in
a writer's room, but I definitely representing all these black
women who have been in writers' rooms and also my
heroes like Susan FIL's Hill, Evettlee Bowser, Debbie Allen, and
so many others that came before me, And it just
(12:51):
sort of like really hit me.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
And so the crazy thing was when.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
You were first black to win anything, there's usually a
standon ovation that follows. So there was a stand ovation
and it quarter mine. You can't miss Oprah Whitfrey standing
up applauding in.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
So that I always remember seeing like her standing up
and you're like made Oprah cat out of her fucking scene?
What yes?
Speaker 6 (13:14):
You know?
Speaker 1 (13:14):
And they tell you got forty five seconds. Only one
person can talk. Cauziz was like, you take the mic,
you know, obviously if it happens, and so like I
was ready for the moment because I had witnessed a
Halle Berry have a moment at the Oscars when I
was in high school and saw her take the moment
honoring Lena Horn and Dorothy Dandridge and you know, and
(13:38):
the people that stood alongside her, obviously, Angela Bastid, Jada Pink,
and Vivica Fox. That to me, like, Holly really showed
you how to make the moment not just about you,
but how to bring everybody with you, because nobody gets.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
To those moments alone.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
And and it's a tricky thing about mountaintops is that
you you enjoyed the view for a bit and then
you have to send and buy a new mountain to climb.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
Ooh, that's it.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Like sometimes you don't even really get to descend. It's
just people already see that you're on a mountain. They're like, damn,
you're just gonna forever be.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
On that mountain.
Speaker 5 (14:13):
Remember that one time you were on that mountain.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
You're like, yeah, but girl, do you see like this
is just the base of some whole new shit.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Ye yeah, just like a type of Mount Everest.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Yet, girl, ladies, can't you gotta kill killmanjar this whole thing?
Speaker 5 (14:26):
Girl, You're just on a rock here.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
You're like, well, this mountain was the biggest thing I've
ever seen, but that's before I stepped on it. Is
there anything you've ever done or achieved that made you
feel like a rapper?
Speaker 5 (14:38):
You know, you were like, yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
I did this shit on me, baby, Fuck you fam
fuck you fans.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
I mean, you know, honestly, it's like a rapper which
one that's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Actually a lot of clips have I draked, you know.
I think for me creating the shop and getting that
created by title, that credit, that's something that you know,
coming up under Marl rock A Kiel, Annie Bettley, Bowser,
Ava DuVernay as well Jennifers Bye who has also created
(15:12):
her own shows.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Obviously Debbie Allen.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
It's like having to created by title meant something really.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Big to me.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
That's something I think I drinked about more than winning
an award because I think it was about can I
create a show that has my stamp, my signature, my voice,
my rhythms in it, and so for the shy And
also I think another big mo will happened recently. We
had our highest viewed episode this season of season seven,
Hello come on in paramount plus.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Number one on the on the app.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Yes, I mean, I think to me, it's really about
that longevity rather than a mountaintop, but rather a marathon,
and it's about being not being hot for a short
time but being warm for a long time. And when
you think about that too, which is so interesting, like
getting to that moment and having your show be a
(16:03):
ten post show for a network, and as a creator,
that's like, oh, that's my dream.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I want to have a television show.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
I want to make something and my stamp and then
thou open up having money and access and that will
be the key to my happiness. But is it though,
was it the key to your happy?
Speaker 6 (16:22):
Well?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Of course not, no, no, no no. I think where
people get tripped up. All of society gets tripped up
because we are taught and told and fed that success
is the same as happiness. Yeah, and so.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Therefore we chase success hoping to be happy.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
And then when you are successful and you get all
your success, you start to think that, well, why am
I not happy? And so then the success starts to
feel like a trap.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
Like a curse.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
So almost like somebody is congratulations and you're like, shut
the fuck up.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Well, the thing is is that you know what's cool
is like because someone could argue like, we have a
successful show, yeah, right, but that has nothing to do
with why I'm happy?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Why are you happy?
Speaker 1 (17:15):
I'm happy because I meditate every morning I'm out on
social media a time. I've curated my community around me.
I have no issue set in boundaries. I know that
I have to take life as it comes, and then
I'm gonna be both happy and said and I should
embrace both when they happen.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Oh that's so legit something you learned.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
I mean you're forty one now, correct? Is that something
that took you time to really learn? Because I am
someone that I'm so like career minded. I mean, I
moved out here literally August is my tenth year in
LA come through. But I have been so reflective of
like this moment of like when I started here, I
was twenty two, had no money, I was sharing a
(18:00):
part a two bedroom apartment with three people. Ooh, and
I was living with like rats and like and had
all these things like literally and I like imagine that
Ryan who was like really trying to figure it out.
And then like it felt like I had my own
the prize and knew where I was going, and then
life was like, actually, we're gonna take you this way,
(18:21):
and it was just a whole other lesson to like learn.
But I felt like, well, I don't have time to
rest right now. I got to get to the destination.
I got to get to the moment where I do
have the money in my bank account where I can
help my family. I do have the access level where
people respect who Ryan Mitchell is when he walks in
a room.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
But you know what's interesting about that is like I actually,
like I knew that that was the vibe that I
was on when I was young and hungry. I was like, bitch,
I am. I'm like young and hungry. I've got my
whole life ahead of me. I know that I could
do anything, and so like I just want to like
prove to myself that I'm capable of greatness. And I
(19:03):
know that someday I'm gonna be looking back at this, like, Damn,
look how tight your skin was.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
I mean, my kindness, Like I have for sure like
worked out of that.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Like I have learned that overworking yourself is really just
someone like draining you of all of the goodness that
is within you. And they will allow you to overwork
yourself if you let them.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
But I've had to learn that.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
And so I wonder for you, Lena, how long did
it actually take you to really come to this moment
that where you've learned, like I don't have to be
working twenty four to seven or I have to be
on this train that is like go go, go, go go.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Well, you know, it's interesting because I work a nice amount,
but even like right now working on season eight and
Legacy Talk the season second season of that, and it's
technically I don't get paid to do Legacy Talk, like
I fund that, Like yeah, so that's something that I
want to put on in the world. And and the
payment the dividends and that are people saying, hey, I
(20:03):
learned something from that Tasher Campbell episode, or I learned
something from watching that episode, you know with Debbie Allen.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
I guess you could say I'm addicted to what I do.
Speaker 7 (20:12):
If that is a workaholic, I love what I do
and I gravitate towards it.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
That's the capital someone getting something out of it.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
The shy actually pays me in capital but also pays
me and people saying yeah yeah, people say like, yo,
this really moved me or this episode made me do
this or do that.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
That's really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
I'm doing a play that nobody paid me to write,
but it's the most exhilarating thing I've ever done. And
I'm going to be performing it next year in Baltimore
and Baltimore Centers Stage February twelfth through March twenty eighth,
market calendars, Come and see us Trinity, directed by Stevie
Walker Web And the thing is is, I'm working a
(20:59):
nice them out, but out of those three things, I'm
only getting paid to do one of those things technically.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
Yeah, which feels like the creator's charity anyway.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Like yeah, so it's about like, but I'm being fed
by legacy talk, I'm being fed by the play, and
I'm being fed literally and figuratively by the shy. So
it's not about not being overworked, because the truth is,
I think to be really it's interesting because the word
successful can be trippy, but to me, in terms of
(21:29):
to be at the top of your game in any arena,
you have to be possessed. Yeah, So it's not about
if it's like, oh, man, like I'm tired, I want
to go to bed right now, or I want to
go kick it, you know what. I'm not even because
if someone can use the word disciplined, possessed really locked
in because if you value rest, that's cool.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
You know.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
It's like, but it's like if someone is saying, hey,
I'm gonna i'm I'm going to go the extra mile,
as someone may say I'm gonna rest a bit.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Both are right, both are right.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
But but I think what can happen is if you say, hey,
I chose rest over going the extra mile, and I
can't resent the person forgetting where they got a little
bit sooner than me because they made a different choice.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
That's something actually I was I was literally thinking about
yesterday because I always I keep I keep going back
to this interview that Jennifer Coolidge did last year where
she was.
Speaker 8 (22:28):
Like, yeah, I got tired after a while and I
just decided to take a break. But I kind of
regret that because you know, if life ever gives you
a wave to ride, you should ride on it. And
that's why I'm doing this this weird car insurance commercial
or whatever right now.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
Great, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
If I ever want to go through the horrors of
snatch game, I'll have her in my way.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
She's always good, she is.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
But like I, actually I hold space and respect and
value that mindset of like, damn, you have to realize that,
like Eminem said, you only got one shot. Do not
miss your chance to blow. This opportunity comes once in
a lifetime. Mom Spaghetti come through.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I love that Academy Award winning Barbara Barbara Streissaying would
have given it to him, but he didn't show up.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
But I remember watching Barbara siss and the winner is
for eight mile. He's not here. I want to tell
this the world on his bath.
Speaker 8 (23:27):
The Oscar goes to and the nam the chess pass
and the mess stuff for usath o mine.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
But I also say, too, Ryan, the terms are you
talking about when you first were out?
Speaker 2 (23:37):
You know?
Speaker 1 (23:37):
In LA ten year anniversary, I was celebrating twenty next
February twenties are here. So but the thing is like
who I was when I first came to LA is
its own chapter.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Oh for sure, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
And so it's not about like, oh, how did you
get to here? I got to hear from every step
that came before it. And you know, I did do
a silent I did a silent retreat. I diviposstaa ten
days of observing noble silence, meditating four hours a day,
fasting like you know, and not like all this.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
You eat a meal, but.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
It's like you're not eat as much as no one
normally would by my daily life. But I think what
that does is it kind of takes you sort of
live in like a monk for ten days. So it
kind of takes the ego away and takes away like
you just sort of your what you're used to doing
all the time. And so, and I didn't do that
until I had just turned forty, so because I think
I was sort of ready to do that. Then it
did it again this year, and I was inside a
(24:29):
solid retreat when I turned forty one. And I also,
I think a really big thing is I don't check
my phone first thing in the morning. I can't check
it until after I've meditated. So it's like, well, if
I want to talk to my phone, I gotta medit.
I treat meditated meditation like brushing my teeth or like
washing my face. It's something that is a part of
my daily routine. But it changes the dynamic of the
(24:53):
way I walk through the world because I don't prioritize
the world before I prioritize myself. And I think ninety
percent of people wake up in the morning immediately check
their phone. And so what you're saying to the universe
is where are my priorities. The phone is the priority.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Not me.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Well do you miss because I mean, Lena, you are
someone who everyone has something to say about, Like, let's
just be quite honest, right, whether it's your work or
whether it's you. Was that a part of the reason
why you decided to like kind of leave.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Social because you're on social but it seems like.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
You're not like on it, on it, like in the
ways that you weren't used I guess you used to be.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting because in terms
of everyone having something to say, everyone have an opinion.
The interesting thing is it doesn't affect either party. So
a person's opinion of me doesn't affect my daily life,
(25:55):
but also their opinion of me doesn't affect their daily
life either. So it's a matter of Okay, how is
this playing a role in my life? And it doesn't
It can't. I mean, I could allow it, but I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
How I have to gain. Are there not positives to hearing?
Speaker 8 (26:17):
What?
Speaker 4 (26:17):
I guess an audience that you're catering to are not
even catering to. But the audience that you're making your
the art for that is going to gravitate to your
assuming it right, is there is there is there a
positive to listening to what they have to say about it,
so that can.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Inform your next works.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
Are like how you tell a story that may represent them?
Are like hitting home or like what's the process of
you taking in feedback in that way?
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Well, I think for artists or creatives, we are in
conversation with ourselves.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
That is just a complete sentence.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yeah, that's the whole episode, honestly, hit down.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
So it's sort of like I try to think of
an example. I mean, I'll use like Miseducation Lauren Hill
for example, like a very pivotal album and my youth.
I don't know what she had the audience in mind,
and I think because of that, it is a timeless
piece of work. And so I don't believe in catering
(27:27):
to an audience because then I'm in service to the
audience rather than service to myself or to a higher spirit,
a higher power. So now mind you am I aware
of like saying, hey, conversation or what's happening to me?
Whatever the conversation is about, the work is actually an
(27:50):
education for me about where society sits in this moment.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Oh okay, okay, Okay, you have me now, because like
I think it's I think there is this beauty and
just being able to create for your sake, but you know,
like just to just to be real about it, like
when we're making art at at least at the levels
we are, you know, this should is also paying your bills.
Speaker 5 (28:16):
This should is also like like.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Opening or closing your opportunities to make more art. So like,
I don't know, I just feel like there has to
be a better way to like find some balance in it,
you know, like it's important for me at least to
know like how people are receiving what I'm doing, because
art is a social commentary, because our culture is a
(28:42):
social commentary on art.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Art is it doesn't change based on people's opinions. Yeah,
it is what it is. You can't change it. There's
no going back and saying, hey, let me make this
nicer for you, you know. And so also what you
got a number two about artists.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
By the time I'm making my next thing, like the
other thing hasn't even come out yet, So I'm just
making work that speaks to me, like the play, nobody
paid me to do that I have to make sure
I feel good about it and my trusted confidence or
people who I value their work, I say, hey, what
do you think When Debbie Allen reads it, it says to
(29:19):
be a note, It says, hey, I really enjoyed this.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Okay, got it, thank you.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
And so it's almost means that if somebody walks out
and says I loved it, if somebody walks out and
says I hate it, they both are correct.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
They both are right.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
And so that that to me is that is that's
somebody said, like, well, why did you hate it? Or
I hate it because it was it was this or
triggered me, or it was slow? Why did you love
it because it was slow and because it triggered me.
So you know, it's like I really, I really encourage
artists like to make making work is to be a
(29:57):
conversation with yourself, and then let the work be in
conversation with society, because once you give it to society,
it no longer belongs to you. But they also can't
tell you necessarily what it is. They can just tell
you what they brought to it.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Okay, I'm curious, then, how much space do you think
artists should hold for in general critique or feedback outside
of the areas that feel comfortable.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
Well, especially when you you got like the approval of
Steven Spielberg. Hey, you know what I mean, like you
were in the prop so I actually I've always wondered
that too, even great point, how do you?
Speaker 2 (30:34):
How do you? Approval? Approval is a word I wouldn't
necessarily use.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
He saw my tape, his amazing cast and directors, I
think also pushed for.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Me a little bit.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
I take a credible away from miss Spielberg at all,
but you know, the callback, and they was helping me out.
And again he wasn't in the room when I audition,
thank god, but he saw something in me and wanted
to give me an opportunity to be in my first film,
and I'm grateful for that.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
I don't know if he necessarily approved of me.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
I wasn't looking for that, Yeah, but I'm you know,
words mean a lot, so I always it will be
thoughtful of it. But you know, But but the thing is,
in terms of here's the thing, there's this.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Old quote from like Donald Glover.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
It was a GQ and I don't want to paraphrase it,
but it was like I was still living in Chicago
at the times. It was a while ago, obviously, but
he said, I don't want to be the gather that
everybody likes. Yeah, And I remember like reading that and
not even really being able to digest it, but obviously
remembering it. And I think there's something too, you should
(31:45):
actually be nervous if everybody likes something. And so for me,
in order for as a writer, there's a rule of thumb.
You can't have a scene if both people agree yeah, yeah,
there's no scene.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
And so for me, there's this interesting thing I've noticed,
and I've picked up one where people kind of go, oh, well,
why do you feel with the criticism or the scrutiny
or whatever, And I always say, well, thank.
Speaker 6 (32:11):
God, yeah, thank god, because then it's almost it's not
to say that, oh I don't believe praise, but if
everyone's doing it, then there's a fear to speak about
what is true.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
So like, because.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Nothing is perfect, even the most amazing moves, somebody could
point things out, you know. And so at the end
of the day, I don't need everybody to love everything
I do.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
I need to love it.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Oh yeah, if I love it, then I like, I
want to hear the dialogue. I want to hear the
conversation around the work, and because to me, that is
what some of the best art.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Does, because it causes us.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
To have a conversation about it. Not everybody go y'all
loved it, me too, Yeah, yeah, you know. I don't
want to get into a place of nah, it's perfect.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
I don't want to hear nothing. You know, it's oh okay,
I didn't see that, Oh okay.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Fair And not to say why why must we always
look for what's wrong?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
But rather what are we bringing to it?
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Like whenever people and Ryn, I'm sure you probably asked
me this or someone asks me the junket uh, and
I get the question a lot is what do you
want people to take away from this movie or from
this show or from this I.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Want you to take away whatever you take away, and
let's fight about it.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
That's an answer as well. But to me, I always
say they gonna take away whatever.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
They bring to it. Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
It's like I don't get a say I have no
control because if somebody starts going this whole long dia
trial about what they want people to take away from
the work, then I don't know how pure that exchange
is gonna be Yeah, and it's it's so interesting, especially
when you think about the art that everyone is like
wanting more in the world and when you intersect that
(34:05):
with representation and seeing less and less of our stories
being told.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
When it comes to like queer media and queer storytelling specifically,
it's I find that the transition for you are the
next step into like theater is so interesting. And I wondered,
what is theater giving you that Hollywood isn't right now.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Uh, there's a lot of freedom. There are no walls,
there's no box. And then the thing about the theater
space is like having whipping your phone out is like
lighting a cigarette on the airplane.
Speaker 4 (34:41):
Interesting. That's so interesting. I never thought about it like that.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Yeah, yeah, I mean literally when you know, obviously I
was going to a bunch of shows and this this
Broadway season, past Broadway season, and so every now and then,
because there are there are you know, ushers, and there
are amazing people that work at these these theaters, and
when someone pulls a phone out, there's a flashlight.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
They get you with media, whether.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
You're texting obviously you're not supposed to be taking pictures of whatever,
but you and the thing is it's meant to obviously
not to disturb the performers or the audience members, but
it's this it's like the most embarrassing thing. You never
want the flashlight to hit you, you know.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
It's like it's like ah of some sorts.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Absolutely, it's like put the phone away. And so what's
interesting about that is and obviously I have a television
show that airs, and so I'm competing with everybody's phone,
you know, because if you're sitting at home, you know.
And so what's great about you know, whether I see
a one act play or a musical with an intermission,
we are present, like in that moment with the performers,
(35:40):
with ourselves, with the audience.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
And when you leave.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
There's a reason why most folks have plans to go
to have dinner after a show, dinner and a show,
you know, and so and it's because you want to
discuss what you just experienced, even more so than saying watched.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
I think it's just really interesting and I'm excited to
see your your show on in this kind of new
journey of you in in the theater space, because I
do think it's it's always important to find to spread
your wings and spread your art and spread your abilities
to like go from the screen to the stage, and
like especially I feel like theater is a space really
(36:18):
where black queer folks can shine. And I think we've
seen that more and more over the years. And it's
not always been that way, of course, but I do
think there's more of a space. And I want to
talk a little bit about legacy talk as we're kind
of wrapping up. Let's do it because I know it's
it's it's in its second season. It just wrapped, very
very excited about it. Who's on your Matt rushmore of legends?
Speaker 1 (36:44):
I mean, well, you know this season we talked to
obviously Tiha Campbell.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
That episode is available right now. It's so good.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
By the way, well, thank you so much. I don't
know if I'm giving anything away out of my team
make up one, then who's who I'm saying, Like, you know,
this season we have a lot of like Taraji be
Henson and Avid Duverney, Felicia Rashad, you know, so we
have a lot of, uh, but also like Kim Whitley,
you know, pulled up this season, Loretta Devine, like people
(37:12):
that some folks you know, might not you don't normally
see them sit down and have conversations.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
She should Camilos one of those people too.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
I think, to me, what's cool about Legacy Talker is
that we only talk about is if people have seen it,
they have you know that we really just talk about
the career. It's very influenced by you know, inside the
actors studio. Uh and in terms of speaking about certain roles,
how they came to, how those roles came to them
(37:38):
while they made certain decisions, and because you know, a
big thing to me was I remember talking to Jada
in season one. I was so curious how much of
her career was crafted by her, how much of it
was sort of crafted by God, because for her to
be where she was at that time, you know, like
a captain hot tear roof, ready to go. It's like
(37:58):
Debbie Allen sees her, It's like, yes, come be on
a different world. And obviously the Hughes brothers, I'll say, yeah,
come be a minister of society, and GARYT. Gray is
like come being set it off.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
And so not kind.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
She's like, well, you know, but those movies and that
those directors at that time you were saying, We're like, oh,
you're what we need for this thing. And and I
think the fact that she revealed to us that Rosie
Perez originally was supposed to be in low down, dirty shame,
you know, and then something happened with scheduling, and obviously
Keenan was like, oh, well, Jada can do it. And
(38:30):
so I think that to me is really interesting because
the journey is we don't really have a ton of
control over we have it. We have control over how
we're willing to lean in, But it's about when those
opportunities come, how much are we willing to step up
and say, I don't care what's going on in my life.
I'm going to rise to the occasion and do this
because this is my destiny. So there are some people,
That's the thing about legacy talk. I mean, a lot
(38:50):
of these people are like, you know, they're not elders.
If you will, they're still aunts, you know. But it's
like it's important to document these kindsversations because the conversation
that was also very much inspired this was the conversation
between Nicki Giovanni and James Baldwin.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
And that Nikki is very young.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
I mean she's in her like twenties, and she asked
Ellis Haslip, queer black man who had a show called
Soul exclamation Point, a really beautiful documentary about his life.
He was cool with all the young poets and he
was talking to Nicki Giovanni and he said, who do
you want to talk to?
Speaker 2 (39:25):
She was like Jimmy Baldwin and she was like, I'm
cool with him. I can make it happen. He lives
in London.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
We'll fly you out, and so they did, and that
kind I just I stumbled upon that conversation on YouTube
after we had just wrapped Queen and Slim, and so
it was almost this interesting gift because I was like,
I was like, I was like, damn, I wish I
would have seen this while I was because it's the
whole thing that quinnys. It was almost a conversation between
men and women and this whole thing. But Essace, I
think God brought it to me after to say you
(39:52):
are a part of this lineage too. This is about
a dialogue between two people who may not always see
things exactly the same way, but yet can still meet
somewhere in the middle.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
It's so far in peace and also it's interesting like
getting there at a specific point, because you know, you
never know if what you had to say would have
been influenced differently. I think that's the fact that when
we were taping season eleven, season ten was airing, and
all we wanted to do so badly whenever we got
(40:22):
out of the workroom after throwing our pussy's on the
ground and screaming at each other, was see what the
other bitches were doing the year before, and they tried
their hardest to make sure that we couldn't. And I
think it actually makes sense because that way you can
like lock in with your own perspectives and then you
go back later and you're like, oh my god, it's
so trippy to see that I was continuing these conversations,
(40:44):
that these people had a different perspective than me.
Speaker 5 (40:47):
It's like, it's how you get some whole, rich, real shit.
Speaker 4 (40:50):
And I love I have been in so many spaces,
especially being like the sometimes the only black queer person
in a space where you bring up like our legends
names in these white spaces like they have no clue.
Oh yeah, So for you to be a part of
making sure those legacies don't stop and those stories don't stop.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
And the history doesn't stop.
Speaker 4 (41:14):
It's so valuable and so important because, yeah, we have
to be I've had to be in spaces where I've
had to know who Sarah Jessica Parker was, and.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
I also have to know who Tisha kick Boy.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
As you know, our stories are not required viewing. Oh
work for everybody. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. So
we have to watch The Godfather, we have to watch
the Sopranos, we have to watch Mad Breaking Mad. Yeah,
we don't have to watch Power Baby Boy. You know
what I'm saying. Our minister society.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
See, I've got a white husband and the first like
three or four years of our relationship was him being like,
how do you not know led Zeppelin?
Speaker 1 (41:52):
And me being like, well there are some black folks
on our fans of led Zeppelin.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
But it's like I can say, how do you not
jo Toasy? How do you not know Jodasy? Hike even?
Speaker 4 (42:06):
Do you want to ask Lena our stable question on
high Key everybody that we have?
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Yeah, yeah, okay, So we've talked in a lot of
ways about like things here into things that bring you joy,
but I have to ask just generally right now, what
are you Hikey about like, what what is what has
got you high key? It could be something an object
and experience.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
I thought, what about Yeah, high key about theater for sure,
all of his forms, all of his forms, you know,
regional theater, Broadway theater. And I'm I think, I'm I'm
high key about meditation for sure. For sure, meditation, like
(42:51):
I do, here's a deal. And some people may feel
like it's an extreme amount, and I don't. I don't
encourage people to start this way. I have to work
my way up. But I'm meditate for an hour?
Speaker 4 (43:00):
What does that mean? You're just sitting there for an hour? Yees,
sitting quietly in one space.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
You're not moving? Yeah, no, you don't move? Okay?
Speaker 3 (43:07):
Does does it still count as meditation?
Speaker 5 (43:10):
If you've got jazz.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
On in the background, it could count as whatever you choose,
you know, I think because I don't think there's any like,
I don't believe in rules for meditation.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
You meditate however you need to do it.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
But I think for me, because the mission is to
hear myself, quiet is important for me. And the thing
that sort of happened is a person will come up,
a person will cross my mind or my spirit and
I'll remember that because you happen to the first thirty minutes,
and so that when my alarm goes off after the
hour I turned my phone on, I'll then often text
(43:43):
to reach out to protel you came up for me
this morning my meditation, and they'll it's happened about ninety
percent of the time. They'll say, oh, my god, I was
thinking of you yesterday, or like, are your ears ringing
like I mentioned you this morning? Yeah, And I always say, oh,
I don't. I just you know, I just wanted to
hit you. And they're like, okay, well thank you, and
how are you? Like I'm well, how are you? And
(44:04):
and so for me, whenever that happens, I always say, oh,
it's okay.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
We're tapped in.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
And so I think we live in a world full
of noise, so we can't hear our own voices. So
no jazz, No jazz for me, because you can't do
it because jazz is cool because it's not lyrics often
so that way you can still hear.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
So But to me, I think what.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
I found when I was observing noble silence for ten days,
you realize how much we are distracting ourselves from ourselves.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Well, I just want to say, like, I love I
love that mindset, and that like you really should be
surrounded in silence so that you can focus on yourself.
And you are clearly so fucking privileged for being able
to be in a silent place anywhere on this planet.
Speaker 5 (44:49):
This is a loud hoss planet.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
What the fuck are you talking about? That's what the jazz.
Here's another thing. It doesn't have to be quiet for
you to get quiet. O WHOA work.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
And there have been times where I've had to meditate
in places that are not my home, in places where
I don't have control over the environment, and those are
often the best meditative hours because even though I can't
make the world, I can't make the world slow down
in order for me too, I can't make the world
get quiet in order for me too.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Then I'll be waiting forever.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
So even if there's music playing or someone's talking, what
it does is it reminds me that it's okay for
that to be happening.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Yea, and for me to get to have mind over matter.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
And for me to get quiet, because if everybody's yelling
around me, it's okay for me to be quiet. Because
even if you see, like you say, like on social media, right,
like everybody will say, oh, this person we coming after today.
To me, it's sort of like I'm looking at the
group of people coming after the one, not the person
they're coming after, because I like to scrutinize, scrutiny, and
(46:00):
so it's to me, it's like, what is everybody doing?
And then not to be a contrariant, but rather to
be an observer. Yeah, this is this is a desire
for people to belong to something, even if it's something
that isn't kind. They'd rather belong to something that isn't
grace or kind or warm than to feel as if
they are on the outside. And that to me is educational.
(46:23):
So it's all you rather be a part of the
mob than be chased by one.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
That you pulled off of being as tied to social
media because like that's all I see when I get
on now either either like people just enacting this mob behavior,
not even always in such a negative way, it's like
still the mob behavior when everyone's like, oh my god,
this pop star is the most important thing in the
world right now, or like this song or like this
(46:52):
moment is like the most important thing, and we have
to love it.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
It's a desire to belong. It's a desire to belong.
And so then what happens is and then it's like,
what is everyone's taste?
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Actually?
Speaker 1 (47:03):
What does everybody actually like for real? Or just that
you're supposed to write so? And then h goes back
to should we be nervous if everybody likes it?
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Right? Right? But that's why it's like I'm over here saying, like,
you know, hey, to love it.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Don't just go with the crowd, you know what I mean,
because then it's like you ain't gonna really stick.
Speaker 4 (47:22):
That's why I love the phrase touch grass, because I
think everybody needs to touch grass at least once or
twice the day I.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Was the thing to who more than this? Touch grass?
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Smoke, Sma, get quiet, Thank you for being hike, thank you.
Speaker 5 (47:40):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
My favorite thing about that interview is I believe how
deeply Lena like is brought peace by meditating every day.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
I still want to see the moment when she.
Speaker 3 (47:52):
Cracks, so I know, I know, like omens swear like
the piece isn't there and you're like, oh wait, that's right.
I am still just like this flesh and blood and
like carnal instinct and natural like whatever Darwinism genes.
Speaker 4 (48:09):
I always wonder, especially around wellness talk, I always wonder
how much is it of it? Like does it turn
into a performance? Like it sometimes doesn't feel genuine to me.
And I'm not saying her journey of like you know,
wellness and silence and meditation isn't genuine, because I think
it genuinely is. But I've just been in so many
wellness spaces where I think I've seen them being like weaponized,
(48:31):
and I've seen them like be sort of performative where
it starts to blur into like this like toxic like
niceness or toxic you know, positivity, And I'm just like.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
Yeah, I'm not into it. I don't think I really
get it.
Speaker 4 (48:44):
Like the first time I met you, and like the
first thing you said was, oh, I sunbathed my asshole,
and I thought, oh my god, here's another wellness girl.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
Ly she's about to get us meditating this shit.
Speaker 5 (48:56):
Well that was a joke.
Speaker 6 (48:59):
Ryan.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
The sun can't reach my whole through the forest, but
I do be trying, though.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
I feel like you can't. It most definitely can't reached
the place. Is Thatty? Came.
Speaker 5 (49:12):
It definitely does.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
That's like the part of having a no ass ass
body is like, you know, I bend over and literally
my insides come out. And I know that's like a
really harsh way to put it, but it is. That's
that's legit, like my crux in life because people are like, wow,
that's a bottom and I'm just gonna stick my finger
in that thing. Like that was my first experience at
(49:34):
the gay club. And it's not my fault that my
hole is presenting herself like she's ready.
Speaker 4 (49:39):
I just have to say, she's on front, she's she
is the Beyonce to your Disney child.
Speaker 3 (49:43):
I think we should get into some some realty. What
are the real high keys? What is the highest key
for you this week?
Speaker 5 (49:50):
Bitch?
Speaker 2 (49:50):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (49:51):
The highest key for me has to be what I
think everyone is talking about. Shout out to the last
ca Jurista's you know awards that Bow and Yang and
Matt Rogers put on on Bravo. They've obviously been doing
It's a comedy Awards show because I couldn't believe some
people weren't getting the joke when they made the nominations
(50:13):
and people were like what is this and like there
was a journalist that was trying to drag them because
they put a content creator in the like journalism category
and it was just like, girl, it's a.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
Joke, like fuck would be for real.
Speaker 4 (50:25):
But I love the specific moment from the Awards show
with Ben Platt singing diet Pepsi through like an orchest
with an orchestra, and it has been like all over
the internet.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
When we tried in your car on your Baby was
in the back sage.
Speaker 4 (50:42):
I love some Ben Platt. He I think a lot
of people have opinions about him. However, Comma, you cannot
say he is not a vocalist and that white boy
can sing even though he'd be looking otis hell and
that dear Eva Hanson movie. But he is incredible. He's
one of the best like Broadway stage performers and singers
of I think of our generation. And he just like
(51:03):
made that song case like he literally Kelly Clarkson the
fuck out of that Addison Ray song. So I'm hikey
obsessed with it. I'm highly obsessed with it.
Speaker 3 (51:11):
I am said, Okay, well now I have to go
and watch that immediately super late because the only thing
I ever think about when I think of bem Platt
the ten seconds I remember interacting with him somewhere in
drag Race world and being like, oh, you've got a boyfriend, Gary, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
So it is his boyfriend. I think it is Noah.
I think they're still dating.
Speaker 7 (51:35):
Yeah yeah, I think I actually stage. I think they're
like full of like, oh great, yeah great. First of all,
you have all the partners.
Speaker 4 (51:45):
I need one still, you can borrow some girl like.
Speaker 3 (51:50):
I don't love lover. I only love one person all
the time, and that is Jesus. Okay, now, what's hikey about? Okay,
aside from Jesus and every man ever, I am so
high key about horror. And I know that is such
a broad high key, but I just went and saw
(52:12):
two different horror movies in the last two days.
Speaker 5 (52:15):
I saw together.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
You know, this could be the beginning roll over. You're
a mayor of something wonderful too.
Speaker 5 (52:26):
And I saw weapons.
Speaker 3 (52:28):
We're talking about seventeen kids and one classroom.
Speaker 5 (52:33):
I want to know what happened in that classroom.
Speaker 3 (52:35):
Why just her classroom, Why only her children?
Speaker 2 (52:39):
Everyone has been talking about weapons.
Speaker 3 (52:41):
I just think in general, both of them makes such
a beautiful statement about what horror is giving people right now,
because right now I feel like horror is the only
genre where you can tell whatever story you want and
move whatever way you want. Like the last couple of
horror movies I've seen have really started out as a
(53:02):
horror movie, but we're like a buddy rom calm, or
like a deep love story, or like they just have
gotten so smart, Like all the best movies of this
year have been horror movies. Twenty eight years later, Sinners.
Speaker 5 (53:18):
Like Together and now like Weapons.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
I also don't.
Speaker 4 (53:23):
Feel like Sinners was that like as scary When I
think about it now, I don't necessarily feel like it's
a horror film, but I guess it is.
Speaker 3 (53:31):
Maybe that's exactly it is, Like everything has to be
billed as a horror film now to get bitches into
the audience seats. They are over Marvel. Those numbers were
really cute in their box office opening weekends this year,
and I just like dip dip dip dipped. But they
will see something where they're like, ooh, maybe it's gonna
be scary, and then they leave the theater being like.
Speaker 6 (53:52):
I never knew I needed love like that.
Speaker 4 (53:57):
You know, I still need to we still need to
do like a like a movie watch night of like
all these like scary movies, because I can't do it
with anyone else except for you. I feel like you're
low key like the queen of horror in a lot
of different ways, like that's just your ship. And as
I say, I don't.
Speaker 2 (54:13):
Drag them, track them, but I want to. I want
to see.
Speaker 4 (54:19):
I would see weapons, even though weapons look so scary.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
Oh my god, I look so scary.
Speaker 5 (54:24):
Yeah it was, it was. It was a little scary.
Speaker 3 (54:28):
It was, it was, but then it turned funny and cute. Okay,
like tasteful. Everything has been tasteful. We're gonna do some
tasteful horror night together.
Speaker 2 (54:39):
I would love that.
Speaker 4 (54:40):
But you know what's not scary though, making sure you're
fucking like commenting and reviewing this podcast.
Speaker 2 (54:46):
We need it.
Speaker 4 (54:47):
Actually, that might be scary if you don't, if you
have social anxiety and you don't want to leave comments
or refuse, which I'm sending love to you. But I
need everyone else to make sure that they are like
supporting the pod. We are so new and we're great
and we're getting great responses. Shout out to the community
we're creating. I mean, please subscribe to us on the
Apple Podcast, like, do all the reviews because we want
(55:10):
five star ratings.
Speaker 2 (55:11):
Please. You know it would be great.
Speaker 3 (55:13):
If we can think yeah and tell us what you
think of our voices. Just use the one word that comes.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
To your adverst.
Speaker 4 (55:21):
I want to describe my voice as a synthesizer mixed
with like Gilbert Godfrey.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
I'm like, I get it.
Speaker 4 (55:29):
You hate my voice first of all, so that's always
been Everyone has hated my voice since I've entered into broadcasting.
Speaker 2 (55:36):
But I think that's what makes me special. I can't
help it.
Speaker 5 (55:39):
Not everybody, I will say.
Speaker 3 (55:41):
Literally, after every episode, I get a little bit jealous
because my husband's like, I listened to your new show,
and he's like, I just I love Ryan's voice, playing
with his nipples and tweaking himself. I'm like, this is
too much. I want a divorce. And then he's like,
and also, I love you.
Speaker 2 (55:57):
Too, baby. I had no clue coming between a happy home.
Speaker 5 (56:02):
No, you're coming lots of places girl.
Speaker 3 (56:04):
Oh okay, stop it, I'm not getting divorced.
Speaker 2 (56:10):
Okay, So I think that's our show, right. That was great.
Speaker 3 (56:14):
I love today's show, yes, oh yes, But if you
want to hear more team, Make sure to subscribe to
our Patreon high key here because I've got more shit
to talk about the yard sale.
Speaker 5 (56:27):
People think I'm quitting.
Speaker 4 (56:28):
Drag I know, and like I it's so interesting how
that like took fire and spread all over the drag
race reddits and let all the people in the comments
like we got to talk about it all, especially some
of the things that I feel like we didn't get
to bring up with Bob so handy Vilena.
Speaker 2 (56:45):
So head over to the afties.
Speaker 5 (56:47):
Head over to the aftes.
Speaker 3 (56:49):
Oh, especially because next week is my birthday and I
hear we've got a surprise, Like I legit, don't know
what it is.
Speaker 2 (56:59):
I know, I'm very excit. It's your birthday, you know.
Speaker 4 (57:01):
Yeah, I still cannot believe that we're doing a show
with an August Leo in a July Leo. Like this
is just blowing my mind. And I feel like it's
my karma for how much shit I've talked about August Leo's.
Speaker 2 (57:12):
Love me I already do.
Speaker 4 (57:15):
You're literally changing my perception of August Leo's and I
will no longer call them tmu virgos.
Speaker 2 (57:21):
I will no longer do it.
Speaker 5 (57:22):
Oh, I will no longer cry about that after today
until next week. Stay messy, suck my dick, Suck my dick,
Stay Hikey.
Speaker 3 (57:35):
Please ed decorum, suck my decorum. If you're hike obsessed
with our show, take a second to follow or subscribe.
Speaker 5 (57:48):
So you never miss an episode.
Speaker 3 (57:50):
And while you're at it, rate us, drop a review
and tell your friends.
Speaker 4 (57:54):
If you want to keep the hike Key going, join
us on Instagram and TikTok at Hie here and of
course on Patreon, where we are literally dropping all that
spicy ass.
Speaker 2 (58:05):
Tea every week.
Speaker 5 (58:07):
See you there.
Speaker 4 (58:09):
Hi Key is a production of iHeart Podcasts as a
part of the Outspoken Network. This show is created and
executive produced by Ryan mitchell E, vi Adley and Spoke Media.
Our show runner is Tyler Greenon.
Speaker 3 (58:19):
Our producers are Jonasanti, Jenna Burnette, and Tess Ryan. Our
video lead is Louis Pana, and our audio engineer is
Sammy Seiretch.
Speaker 4 (58:27):
Executive producers for Spoke Media our Travis Lamont, Ballinger and
Aliah Tacoli.
Speaker 3 (58:32):
Our iHeart team is Just Crime Chich and Sierra Kaiser.
Speaker 4 (58:35):
And our fame music is by the one and Only
Kayan Hersey and our show art is by work by work,
with photography by Eric Carter.
Speaker 6 (58:43):
Thank you,
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