July 8, 2020 • 48 mins
We all love the character Kevin from “The Office” but do you know the story of the actor that brought him to life? Wells gets to know Brian Baumgartner and hears about how he broke into acting after living in Hollywood for only a few days.
He shares his crazy stories about coming up as a theater actor and of course we go behind the scenes for one of the biggest shows in TV history.
You don’t want to miss this big pot of chili!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is the Wells Cast with Wells Adams and I
heart radio podcast. That's right, that's what it is. It's
the Wells Cast. I don't know. I don't know never
to say in this. In this part of the show,
it always feels kind of weird. Why radio people always
have all those stupid sounders and music and beds and
(00:25):
stuff that talk over because it's everything is awkward. You're
just like, here we go again. Time to do uh,
time to do the thing that I do every week.
So buckle up, kiddos, here we go. That sounded weird too.
I don't know. You guys. Watch a couple of nights
ago Almoso on Kevin Hart's new game show called Celebrity
Game Face. No, okay, well, anyways, it was Kevin Hart,
(00:46):
his wife, Joe McHale, his wife, Terry Crews his wife,
and then Sarah and I and we, uh we did
his game show and we lost and Joe McHale cheated
I'm pretty sure whilst wearing way too short of shorts.
So whatever. If you watched that episode, we have to
uh power eat spaghetti, and in the middle of the
thing of power eating spaghetti, we're feeding Sarah and I
(01:07):
are feeding each other's spaghetti with those baby hands, with
tiny hands, you know. And in the middle of it,
I just leave our runt of the bathroom and Sarah
is having to finish the thing by herself, and she's like,
what where did he go? And Kevin is like what
happened to Wells? And Joel's making fun of me. It's
because I have this condition that like food gets stuck
in by esophagus. I don't know if anyone else has this,
(01:29):
but it happens to me all the time. All that
spaghetti got stuck in my esophagus. I had to go
runt of the bathroom and throw it up or I
was going to die. Maybe not die, but I assumeing it.
I was so much pain. And here's and you know what,
big shout out to the good people over there at
Entertainment Television because they cut that entire thing out because
I was miked up. You're just hearing me in the
(01:50):
background and Kevin Hart being like, is he okay? Are
we gonna get sued for this? What's gonna happen? So anyways,
I'm really excited about the show today and I'll tell
you why. I'll just do it let's just get you
guys ready for it. Okay, let's do it. I was
(02:13):
thinking about it before doing this show. I think the
three most iconic notes in music history is Billou. Listen,
you immediately know what you're about to watch when you
hear right, yeah, you do. So on the show today,
(02:35):
we're gonna have someone obviously from yes, the show The Office.
And if you're one of those people that wereld like
I don't know those three notes, then just unsubscribe because
you and I just don't the same. It's a humor,
is what I'm saying. So get out of here. No, actually,
please don't subscribed because I need I need the money
I can get right, Okay, because this is coming on
(02:57):
the Wells guys today, I have a guy who on
I think all the Emmys on a little show called
The Office. This dude broke into the industry only three
months after moving to Hollywood. Is crazy, by the way,
but The Office wasn't his first gig. He's got a
bunch of credits. Jacob Progress arrested development ever would be
in movies like Licensed to Wed four, Christmas Is the
(03:19):
Last Push, and even portraying a conflicted priest in into temptation.
But let's be fair, everyone knows him as Kevin at
least once a year. I like to bring in some
of my Kevin's famous chili. The trick is to undercook
the onions. Everybody is going to get to know each
other in the pot. I'm serious about this stuff up
(03:44):
the night before, pressing garlic and dicing whole tomato. That's right, guys.
So excited to have on the Wells Cast the one
and only Brian bum Gardner or well you probably know
him as Kevin Malone. Let's stick around. This is an
episode you are I'm gonna want to miss alright back
(04:14):
on the Wells Cast. Very excited to have on the
show Brian bom Gardner, also known as Kevin Malone from
the Office. How are you, my man? I am doing great, Wells.
How are you? I'm doing really good. I'm so excited
to have you on the show. One because I'm a
huge like everyone else in the world, I'm a huge
(04:36):
Office fan. But I'm also, like I kicked, come from
the world of radio, and so I really do love
hearing stories be told through my stereo system in my car,
and so I'm really really pumped that you are going
to be doing a podcast now for Spotify called an
Oral History of the Office. So just right off the bat,
(04:57):
tell us about what the hell this is? Basically was
worn out of what you were just saying that everybody
is a big fan of the Office. We're gonna pretend
we're old fronts, so we're just gonna talk frankly with
each other, right, Like we were the number one scripted
show on NBC for a number of years while we
were on Thursday nights at nine o'clock on NBC, and
(05:19):
the show was big, right, but from from us, especially
the cast perspective, the show is so much bigger now
seven years since we filmed the last moment of the show.
And really the podcast was born out of wanting to
explore the question of why why that is? Like why
(05:40):
literally eleven twelve thirteen year olds, fourteen year olds to
fifty seventy five year olds who are you know have
just found it on Netflix for the first time, but
particularly the young people, because when we were making the show,
we were like, oh, okay, we're maybe you know, there
(06:01):
was some stat at the time, right, I don't remember
what it was, but just say like three hundred million
people work in offices, so if some of those people
relate to the show, this will be huge. But like,
why do young people specifically looking back for this podcast,
about how decisions that were made in setting up the show,
in casting people, in hiring camera guys who had only
(06:25):
shot reality shows before, had never worked in scripted comedy before.
Why this sort of assembly of people that came together,
what made that specifically special and and and why it
has endured to today. And you know, the other thing
was we just wanted to tell the story ourselves. I mean,
you know, Ben silverman Um, who is the first person,
(06:48):
He's the one who got the rights to the show.
He kind of started the whole thing on the American
side from the British you know, came to me about
putting this together and me going to the cast and
just saying, like, I think we should tell our story.
I think people should hear from us, and not just that,
they should hear from us together talking to each other,
because people will see that. Maybe why it endures is
(07:10):
because people when they watched they see that that we
really did over the ten years become a family. So
I got to listen to the first episode like a
sneak peak of it. And what I thought was really
cool was you really dive deep in the nuts and
bolts of the show, like it's not all about like
Dwight's beat Farm. The first episode you have the casting
director on. I'm somewhat in the industry, so that's so
(07:34):
interesting to me. Wait, okay, so there's this one person
who has to find all these people, but she's done
all this other stuff. Who she picks really makes the
world of the office work. They were looking for unknown
people on the show because they wanted it to they
wanted it to appear that this was really These were
real people who were working in a paper company, so
(07:55):
they didn't want stars and what people you know, especially
who have founded on Netflix, like Steve Correll is one
of the biggest comedy stars on the planet. Right, But
this was before forty year old virgin Now, this was
before evanel My, you know. Now he's an Oscar nominee
for God's sake, you know. And Rain Wilson, you know,
he'd done a little something, a little u um recurring
(08:19):
role on six ft Under one season, but nothing really
and you know, John Korzinski was totally unknown. Um myself,
in fact, I went to my agent at the time.
I knew the British show and I knew there was
a character that Kevin was sort of taken from, called Keith.
And I was like, all right, I've just moved to
Los Angeles. If there is one role right now that
(08:42):
I could be cast as, just newly too, this is
the role, Like this is I get what this guy
is about. And I went to my agent at the
time and I told her that, um, you know, this
is what what I should be cast at, like I
should go out for this part. And then she said, well,
they're looking for unknown people, but not you, not like
(09:03):
totally completely unknown people, and uh, it was really about
Alison um and and And when the show was cast
she cast she cast a very wide net and and
found people that you know, other people weren't looking for.
It was really cool the what special skills in a
(09:25):
way they were looking for um from the people and
how we all fit together in that space. I had
Kate Flannery on the show a couple of months back,
and she told us that she originally auditioned for the
role of Jan Did you always want to be Kevin
or Keith or did you audition for other parts? Than
they kind of fitch you in. Yeah, I tell the
(09:46):
story in the podcast that originally I went I went
out for Stanley, they called me in for Stanley. Um,
Kevin was the role that was for me. And you know,
the British version of the Office there are fewer characters
than the American version. U. Greg Daniels knew he wanted
more people, um to populate the Office here. He wanted
the show to run longer and have more storylines. So
(10:09):
you know the reason that Angela you know, any character,
Greg always says, any character that that has their own
name in real life, those are the That's how you
know those were Those were characters that were added in
the American version. So um, there there was just you
know seven or something that that way that came from
the British and there was Kevin and on the Kevin
(10:31):
and Stanley. So going back to kind of like the
cultural phenomenon that is The Office and you trying to
like break down why the hell fourteen year old kids
who are into TikTok dances are binging the hell out
of a show that aired. You know, I'm in my
mid thirties, was was really you know my era show
(10:52):
what do you think it is? What? What is it
about that show that's bringing in an audience that like,
I can't even relate to right now? And I opened
up TikTok, I don't. I mean, I've done this podcast
in part to try to answer that question. I think
that one thing for sure was, you know, I said
(11:14):
we were these mostly middle aged. I mean I actually
was younger. I looked much older at the time, and
I started the show I was thirty one. But I
guess that's still middle aged if you're if you're twelve
worth thirteen. You know why that resonated. And I think
one of the answers that for sure I think is
true is much like these people are stuck in an
(11:36):
office spending more time with these people that they didn't
have any choice about than they do their own families.
Kids are in school, so there's something about the setup
of the show and how kids were. You know, there's
a teacher that maybe is unreasonable and maybe behaves in
a really weird way. Sometimes it makes you do ridiculous things,
(11:57):
and the people that you're sitting next to you may
not have chosen to, but you know, you're in a
school and you go, you know, five, six, seven years
in a row, depending elementary school or junior high. So
you know these characters, you know, these these archetypes, these
sort of brilliant archetypes, and so they go like, oh yeah,
my friend Sammy is like he's like the Kevin right,
(12:18):
and then there's the hot guy, and there's the you know,
the people who have the crush. So I think it's
became that we didn't see it at the time. It
makes sense that they get the show in that way
that in some ways it is built for them. Yeah,
I guess that's true. Like everything that we do, even
(12:39):
though if it isn't labeled as corporate, it is corporate.
Like if you are on a football team, it's so corporate.
There's the boss, who's the coach who's an idiot, you
know or whatever. There's the quarterback life is too easy
for him. There's the dipship, you know, like you're right,
Like anytime you have a bunch of people come together,
it's corporate, whether you like it or not, right, I mean, yeah,
(13:00):
there's a hierarchy, and there's somebody in charge, and there's
somebody who really wants to be in charge, but will
never be in charge because they're right, like Dwight right,
and and um, you have you have the person who's
sort of over it and above it all, whether that's
Jim in some you know, in some ways or Stanley
depending on the perspective, you know. So, yeah, it exists.
(13:21):
And I think another thing is and this is not
necessarily young people, but in some regard this is this
is crazy and kind of meta and weird to think about.
But think about it now, we're populated. People's jobs are
big box stores. Right. It was kind of a joke
(13:41):
that we were doing this show about a paper company,
like a dying industry paper like we were moving into
the video age, age of technology, and there's some nostalgia
actually for this where you actually go to a place
to get work, that you have health insurance, that you know,
you have holidays, like they're all of these things that
(14:05):
we think of as as as kind of unreasonable or
or you know, like stuck in your ways that now,
especially people going into the workforce now or having survived that,
and maybe a small business that's been downsized and now
you work at Staples or something like the experience of
working at Staples, whatever your job is, right, is totally different.
(14:29):
Than working at dunder Mifflin like it is like you know,
and and the corporate environments that you have to live
through now, and the seminars endless seminars that you have,
you know, what you can say and not say. It
touches on all of those things in a way that
I think potentially brings nostalgia even though it didn't happen
that long ago. For I heart, I still have to
(14:51):
do a million training sessions about how to act in
the workplace, and I do my show from my house. Right. Well,
this was this is an old story. We actually don't
talk about this in the podcast, but there was a
time right when we started to have to have a
year you know, NBC Universal Corporate, we had to have
(15:12):
a sexual harassment seminar, right like you should. But the
weird thing is is that the HR revs from NBCUniversal
would come over to our studio and they would show
clips because they were trying to make this this seminar interesting.
They would show clips from the office about how not
(15:34):
to behave in us and it's like, we must get
it right, like we're lampooning it already. Yeah, I don't.
I think we're set here. I think we get it,
but yeah, that was always funny to us. Oh man,
that is hilarious. The show ran for nine years, which
just doesn't happen really that often anymore in television. And
(15:59):
I talked to Kate, like I said, a couple of
months ago, and I had some some folks on from
like a full House, and I always try to relate
it to my life. And my fiance was on Modern Family,
which is on our show that ran for a very
long time. And after getting to know that cast and crew,
yes they are a TV family, but once you like
(16:20):
go hang out with them, I think it came across
very authentic on TV because that's how it was when
the cameras weren't rolling, And I assume that's how cast
and crew was like really really tight and really felt
like a family for sure. By the way, tell your
fiance Hi. The difference I think in the office in
really any show, because it's not really how network television
(16:43):
shows are made. It's why we struggled so much in
the beginning to even stay on the air was it
was no stars. There were there not none of us
knew anything right, and we all were also a little
bit older, and so we knew. You know, there's a
story Malaura Harden, who played jan had been on thirteen
(17:04):
or fourteen pilots hadn't been picked up. Nothing, nothing picked up,
like like living a lot, like getting what you want
as an actor, and just the show's never went anything.
They would film one show and then be done. Um,
you know to Steve working you know hard at Second City.
(17:24):
You know Kate Flannery who mentioned, you know, doing improv
comedy and you know, stuff off Broadway in New York
and myself I did theater, uh, you know, prior to
the show. And so I think that that gave us,
oh a universal real like nobody was jaded. There was
(17:46):
like a no jaded you know policy at the door,
like that you had to have no jade if you
were cast because you know, there wasn't anyone who had
any success. There was nothing for anybody to be jaded about.
So I think at that makeup on our show specifically
was a huge, huge part of it. I mean phillis
(18:06):
that you know, she was a casting director, she wasn't
even an actor, like, but it was about you know,
each individual skill that everybody had that that fit together
and made it made sense, and that because of the
show was shot the way it was, they didn't want
anybody famous on it. I mean that makes sense if
it's supposed to be a documentary or a mockumentary. If
(18:27):
you if you recognize somebody, then the gig is up.
I suppose when you look back on all nine seasons,
do you have most favorite episode? Because everyone, you know,
everyone which is now like trillions of people who like
love the show, has a favorite episode. Do you have
a favorite episode? I'll tell you a quick story. I
(18:48):
remember going back to my high school and this is
like the show had been on maybe six or seven years.
Like it had been on let's say seven years, sounds
like a good number. I went back and they were like, oh,
would you come back and would you talk to our students,
like would you do like a Q and A thing.
I was back at my hometown in Atlanta, and I
(19:11):
was like, okay, sure, and so I talked to uh
start talking and someone asked me the same question, you
know what, what was your favorite episode? And I said, well,
I kind of have an answer that I give and
I said, you know, the first answer that I always
say is diversity Day. And I was hit with like
(19:31):
a wall of sound coming at me. I was like
whoa like I was, and just even in that moment,
going okay, however old The oldest person in this room
is eighteen seventeen minus seven, right, if we're seven years
It was the second episode we ever did. Those people
(19:53):
were ten. Right if you're a freshman in high school,
like I can't do math very well, maybe you weren't
born yet. I don't even know. But it was that
like the universal recognition of title of episode and what
that episode was that completely blew me away. It's totally
(20:14):
exactly And so that was one of the first times
for me where I was like, oh man, they're like
really young people are watching the show now. Diversity Day
for me really special. Also for some reasons we talked
about in the podcast, the first Christmas episode that we
did was kind of where the show took a turn
(20:35):
from We're gonna be around for a little while. I think, um,
that was special in that way. It was also a
huge ensemble episode, like literally everybody had something funny interesting
to do. In fact, one of my favorite moments of
the maybe nine seasons is in that and from Kate Flanner,
who you mentioned, when she flashes her boobs at Michael
(20:57):
at the very end of that episode. It's like, that's
what she did in that episode, and that moment was
so perfect on like eighties seven levels that like you
know that, and um, you know for Kevin personally Kevin
meaning me, I guess, but for myself in terms of Kevin,
(21:19):
there was a series of episodes where um, Holly, who
eventually marries Michael, thinks that Kevin is is slow. That
for me, those episodes were so much fun just personally
to play and so rewarding and maybe the first, maybe
the longest set up to a joke in the history
(21:42):
of network comedy maybe. I mean it was a joke
that literally was four years into making that just was
really fun to play. All Right, I want to play
something for you, and then I want to talk about
it with you, because I would be remiss if we
didn't kind of just break this here. I like to
bring in some of my Kevin's famous chili. The trick
(22:04):
is to undercook the onions. Everybody is going to get
to know each other in the pop I'm serious about
this stuff up the night before, pressing garlic and dicing
whole tomatoes, I toast my own anto chilies that passed
(22:26):
down from Malan's generation. Okay, I won't play the entire clip,
but I mean, you spilling the chili is is iconic.
I feel like you only got one shot at this.
Like they're not bringing in like a cleaning crew to like,
let you try this again. So walk us through that
kind of iconic scene. First of all, I thought it
(22:47):
was cool. It was a little bit controversial at the
time because it was such a departure from and I
don't know, it's so crazy because people love the show.
That moment has gone so crazy for people, and it
is aesthetically it's quite different from literally everything else. There's
a voiceover that plays through the whole thing. It's a monologue,
(23:12):
it's all. It's like, there's so many things that are
different about it. But when we filmed it, I thought
it was very funny and perfect from a character stand
I mean, just like just the embodiment, it's so perfect.
Episode that comes up later on where Kevin says it's
good to just win one, and I feel like a
lot of things for him was kind of about that
in a weird way. I don't know, that's kind of
(23:33):
meta too. You're making me go deep. But about the scene.
Props crew came to me or set deck, maybe all
of them, and they were like, hey, man, so the
piece of carpet, right, I mean, where they were anticipating
the chili could go was essentially from the front door
of the office all the way in front of like
(23:54):
the reception desk, all the way to like where Jim
and Dwight sat, um. And so there was a humongous
piece of carpet, and they came to me, we have
three pieces of carpet, like, that's it. We have three
pieces of carpet. And after that were done, like there's
no chance to go anymore. So I was like, all right,
I mean, and I hear it's sort of a joke.
You know. They called me Mr one take, which is
(24:17):
true on so many levels, but I, um, yeah, I
got it in in one take. At the end of it.
They could have replaced the carpet. I don't know that
they could have replaced me in that because I was
my hands were slightly staying actually from from the chili itself.
(24:41):
But yes, that the fact that that thing is what
it is today, it is so unbelievably shocking to me.
I mean, I just can't. It's crazy. I imagine. It
wasn't a thing that in the moment you were like,
this is going to be like a huge thing. It
was just like like defined my like defined my life,
(25:05):
literally define my life. Um No, it wasn't. I thought
it was really funny, and I thought it was I
thought it was cool, and you know, I think that
I was about say something that literally the sum total
was that it makes me really awesome. But I will
(25:25):
say it anyway in a way, like doing physical comedy
like that is not easy, right, So it's sort of
like I probably got it in one take or I
wouldn't have gotten it in three, and maybe the scene
would have been like cut. And I mean specifically, like
technically I know that I'm going to spill the chili
(25:48):
as the actor going in, but making sure that it
doesn't look like I'm about spiling. You know, it's just
a it's a it's a technical difficult thing at times
to do that stuff. And so yeah, I had no clue.
It was a fun thing to do. Um it was
one of an experience and and it was kind of instantaneous.
It became a thing. And now with our Jiff Giff
(26:13):
giffee jiff whatever the hell they're called. I I can't
even get over. I mean it's it's not even once
a day. It's like, I don't know, ten times a day.
I mean it's like I get it's sent all the time.
Any of my social media is just there and I
can say. It's like I can say I'm going, I'm
(26:34):
I'm jumping on a plane to New York tonight, and
there was someone will say, don't spill the chili. I
mean it's like, no, those things don't make sense or
even like I'm talking about I don't know, like anything food.
Really I can't. I really I shouldn't, and I'm so stupid.
(26:55):
I forget and I'm like, oh man, yeah, I made
this great whatever meet item. And then it's just there's
no stopping the chili train at that point. Speaking of
gifts and gifts and memes and whatever, there is an
office COVID meme that's going around right now that I
(27:16):
do find pretty funny. It's everyone's character what they would
call coronavirus. Have you seen this? No, I didn't see
that one. I posted one. It's not so funny anymore anymore, actually,
but it made me like this was when it started.
It was what every office character would what their response
(27:40):
would be to it, right, And Kevin's to me was
the funniest too. It was like he's not concerned because
he already had it or something like that. It was,
but that was like when it first started, early on,
you know, Michael would want to have a meeting about it.
I don't remember what it was. I think I actually
posted that on social media, but no, what is this
what it would be called that it would call. Yeah,
(28:00):
so Jim calls it coronavirus. Dwight calls it COVID nineteen creed.
He's speaking Mandarin, so you can't you just make they
make any sense? Angela calls it the wrath of God.
Your character calls it weird flu. Yeah, Michael calls it
kung flu, which I guess makes sense. And yeah, anyways,
(28:20):
there's people that are that are left off the list,
and so I wanted to keep going and I want
to hear like what Kelly's would be, and you know,
but it's just so funny, Like memes. I don't even
know if they were a thing during the office, but
you guys are means so much now, which I guess
goes back to the original thing of like, all these
kids are totally gravitating towards your show. And I don't
(28:41):
even know if it's true, but I remember hearing some
stat that like The Office was the most Netflix show
ever or something like that. Yeah, that is true. So
since they started having a way to quantify streaming, that
was in seventeen, The Office, this is the most watched
show streaming. I remember this is like eighty two billion
(29:06):
that's with a bat minutes were watched on Netflix. And
then we got a stat that even you know, the
first quarter of of the Office was still the most
watched show. And on the first day of the coronavirus
on March, it's set a record for any show at
(29:26):
any point in any time, two hundred and fifty million
minutes in one day. It's it's unbelievable. I mean it
really is. I'm sorry to your fiance. There's really no
it is the most watch show in television today. There's
kind of no other metric that can quantify how many
(29:48):
people are watching it. It is in sanity. Don't worry
about Sarah. She's doing just fine. Uh, trust me, ask
her if she wants to trade places. I don't know
that I would marry you though I have another fair enough, well,
then it makes total sense for an oral history of
the Office to come out in podcast form. It releases
on the of July exclusively on Spotify. The first episode
(30:14):
will be available across all platforms. It's free on Spotify,
but after that you have to go to Spotify. The
first three episodes are launching on the same day, which
takes you through bringing the show from Britain to America
and then casting and then shooting the pilot or the
first three episodes. But I'm so incredibly proud of how
(30:35):
it's come together. It was so much fun because even
you know, we are a family and we do see
each other, but you know, like people have moved away,
like John Krasinski, almost like I gotta give his address
or something. What am I doing? He doesn't live in
Los Angeles anymore, so I don't I don't see him,
and so I went to where he was and we
had a, um, you know, a nice a nice day.
(30:58):
So yeah, that part of it has been really really fun.
So the entire shows in the can. The entire show
is in the can. We are still doing some tweaks
on the last two. But yes, So, what are some
guests that you had on this show that kind of
surprised you because that happens a lot to me where
I'll be like, I don't know if this energy is
going to be any good and then they come in
(31:19):
and I'm like, that was one of the best episodes
ever and I wasn't expecting it. Wow, that's a great question.
I really liked hearing from Ken Kappas, who directed the
pilot and the finale and some of the episodes in between.
Just hearing specifically, you know, what he and Greg Daniels
did to create the world of the show, how much
(31:41):
time was spent on that early on and things that
we were asked to do or made to do that
we were like, this doesn't really make much sense, Like
how that actually was a conscious decision that made all
the sense in the world. We were just too dumb
to see it. That was really interesting. I mean, being
able to sit down on with Greg Daniels himself one
(32:02):
afternoon for four and a half hours was unbelievable. UM,
because you know, he was our he was our leader
on set and UM and just hearing again from him
was fascinating. And then you know, we had our head
makeup person and hair person talking about the looks of people,
(32:24):
um and what they did. And you know, we've talked
the show has talked about so much. And I will
tell you I am kind of a nerd about the
business of television, so I was kind of paying attention
to stuff as it was going on. And there are
still and this is gonna sound so teasery, which is
because I'm the most opposite of that. I found out
(32:45):
like humongous groundbreaking things as I was doing this that
I didn't know because the people involved were still humble
and nice that they didn't think to have to talk
about it particularly and may being related to a crew
person or related to some fellow actors or something. So
(33:06):
you know that part, I was like, oh, I know
the story right, And then I'm like, holy lord, I
didn't had no idea about that. So I think that's
gonna be really fun for people. And and again, just
hearing us be able to banter back and forth, which
which we haven't done in person in a long time, well,
I'm excited to uh to hear the rest of it.
Like I said, I got a sneak preview of the
(33:28):
first episode. I think that's actually the second episode. That's
that's totally fine. Yeah, the second episode is the casting episode. Yeah. Well, regardless,
it was really interesting for me to hear and and
hear you guys kind of go back and forth on
just the creation of the show. So it's something that
everyone should go listen to when it comes out on
July four. All right, right, I want to be respectful
(33:50):
of your time, but I do want to kind of
do what my show is all about, which is origin story.
So let's take a quick break and when we come back,
I want to hear how the hell you got to
where you are now, Brian. I don't know if anyone
(34:19):
told you the kind of the idea for this show
is origin stories. I'm fascinated with how people got to
where they are now. And you're now this iconic figure
in you know, television history. I imagine a lot of
people think that, you know, you moved to Hollywood and
(34:39):
then you book the role of Kevin Malone and bing
bang boom, your a millionaire living in you know, the
Hollywood Hills. But I imagine that's not really how it
went down. Tell us, like where you came from and
how the hell you got here? I came from Atlanta, Georgia.
I was born Atlanta, Georgia. I was a huge believe
(35:00):
it or else. Steve Carrell calls me the greatest athlete
on the show. I was a big athlete when I
was growing up. I've told the story a few times before,
but surprisingly even close friends. Recently, I told someone who
was like, I've never heard that I had a leg issue.
I had, like something that was from birth. And I
mean I like, I thought I was gonna play be
a professional baseball player. Like that's really what I thought.
(35:22):
And Um, I had a leg issue, which was an
elective surgery that had to happen. Um, very long story short.
Something went wrong in the surgery and the cast that
they put on, the splint that they put on after
my leg um. You know, after they did the surgery,
which was fine, there was like a chemical mismixture or
(35:45):
it got too hot in one place. My leg turned
through the back of my leg to my achilles tendon.
That was basically it for me in terms of sports.
So I had to I was in a wheelchair, I
was in a walker basically over the course of a year,
two a year and a half, you know, learning to
rewalk again. And then because let the nature of the
surgery was which I want, bore people, they had to
(36:06):
go back in and do something else later, so I
had to have another one. And that was basically you
know it for me in that regard. And as I
was recovering, I was a super active kid, and I
was like, I need to find something else to do.
And I started doing theater and found that that was
something that I really enjoyed doing. So I went to
school for it. Um like creating a character, um, you know,
(36:31):
all of those things are like that's just what interested me.
So I went to school at s m U in
Dallas because at the time I thought they had the
best conservatory type training program in the country that was
within a university. Ponies right, exactly, thank you. Well that
(36:53):
was within a university, Like I said, so like there's
Juilliard or Carnegie Mellot. I didn't want to go to
a school like that, Like I wanted a college experience.
I'm that kind of guy. They had a great program,
so I went there. I did theater for a number
of years. I did my parents tell the story of
I graduated from uh College and I was working at
a small theater in Minneapolis, Minnesota. They flew up to
(37:15):
see me and there was like seven people in the
audience and they you know, they didn't they were smiling
and everything is great. And then like on the car
ride back to their hotel because I was in this
tiny they were like, what the hell is he doing?
Like what how we he has made a terrible error.
He always seemed like a smart guy. What is he
doing with his life? Now? That was amongst themselves. They
(37:39):
were always incredibly supportive of me. They didn't have that
conversation with you, like in front of you. That was
something that you heard later. That was something I heard later.
I mean, and and and some of it was not
like later like when you know I won an Emmy
for the Office, not that later, but more like, oh,
(37:59):
now he's doing you know theater. You know, he's going
to Berkeley Rep. You know, in in Berkeley, and you
know it was whatever the a thousands of people are
you know, five hundred people where that Like they would
joke about it then. So it wasn't like I thought
I was necessarily going to be on television or whatever.
But they would joke about it that you know, and
their responses later, but no, they were always super, super encouraging,
(38:24):
and that's what I did, and that that was what
I thought my life was. I recently told this story.
I don't know if I've told this story publicly actually,
but UM, I recently told the story to Alison Janny.
Alison Janny, if you don't know, is one of the
greatest American actors alive. UM. You've seen her in thousands
(38:44):
of movies and West Wing, you know, she did whatever
D two hundred episodes, and she was a she was
a big star in New York. Like, she was a
working actor. And I was working for a time running
a theater company in UM in Minneapolis UM at that time,
and I was traveling to New York. I was like
looking at new shows and I had a relationship with
(39:06):
a playwright who had written a play. She was and
it was like every time I showed up, Alison Jenny
was in whatever show I was seeing. And I remember
going backstage, I'm a kid, I'm theater and many like,
no one wants to talk to me, and I'm sort
of like this fly on the wall backstage in the
green room, and I hear her talking to a friend
and she's saying, well, there's this play that I really
(39:29):
want to do, but if I do that play, you
know then I I can't do anything in between. And
there's gonna be six weeks and you know, how am
I going to pay my rent? And my mind was blown.
I was like, this is Alison Janny. Now this is
before anyone knew who she was unless you saw plays
(39:51):
in New York. But to me, like one of the
best actors, and I mean on Broadway show after Broadway show,
off big off Way shows. And I was like, if
she's worried about making rent, like because she can't work
for six weeks, I'm like, what is And theater is hard, man,
it is hard. I mean I complain now when I
(40:15):
don't have a water in my hand the moment I
think that I wanted but that's a joke people, But
I mean it's it's hard work. And you know, eight
shows a week, six days. Monday is your day? What
who does anything on Monday? You have no life. I
just was like, Okay, I think at some point I
(40:35):
want to go to Los Angeles, want to see what
else is out there. And so um, I struggled, and
I was but I was getting roles in theater, and
eventually I was getting roles at big theaters across the
country in New York or wherever else. UM, And I
was like, it was hard, kind of like the Allison story,
(40:59):
Like I I didn't want to say no to something,
so I just I finally just cut it off. And
I was like, Okay, I'm gonna do this show and
then I'm gonna stop, and I'm gonna go to Los
Angeles and try. And then funny enough that you told
the story you did once I got to Los Angeles. UM,
I happened to meet Greg Daniels and the folks at
(41:20):
the office three to four months after I arrived. So
once I arrived in Los Angeles, the rest of that
happened pretty quickly. But it was it was a number
of years before I ever ever got there. Yeah, well,
you paid your dues in Minneapolis Winters. I feel I
feel like you were you were you were owed one.
(41:42):
Yes for for sure. Yes that for me, you know,
it was it was really born out of the theater.
And I love the theater, and I think, you know,
the live theatrical experience that you have that only happened,
you know, you could do the same play through three
years in a row, eight shows a week, but every
night is different. Um, because of the audience, the experience
(42:06):
that's happening in the moment I do. I love it.
It's really hard, It's it's really difficult. It's a difficult
life for sure. I will say like, when The Office
started becoming a success, it was like, you know, I
was so proud of so much work that I did, like,
you know, stuff that was difficult for me or challenging
(42:27):
in a way. And overcame something, you know, to do
some role in some play, and I was like, and
you know how many people saw it if it ran
for three months? You know, And and and the the
the ability to be able to entertain people make people
think think about things in a new way. I think
The Office is one of the things that's special about that.
(42:49):
You know, we were talking about race and sexuality and discrimination, um,
women's issues. You know, we were talking about that stuff
in a way made people uncomfortable. And I was tremendously
proud of that as well. Now, being a guy that
came from the theater world than kind of jumping into television,
(43:11):
is theater something that you want to get back to
I've had some discussions about it, and I've definitely thought
about it, and I would love, especially love, at least
at this point, to find some way to go back
to some of the great, great theaters that I worked
in again and do something. Yeah, I mean, this is
like so boring industries type stuff, but it is. It's
(43:33):
also just a huge time commitment and sort of going
back to the Alison. You know, if I have anything
that I'm working on here, it becomes really really difficult
unless you're just saying I'm just gonna go and do that.
And Jenni Fisher did it. She she went to New
York and she wanted to do a show and she
(43:53):
she hadn't done Um that's not where her you know,
where she came from. So she wanted to have that
experience and she did it. I I'm gonna I'm so
bad at the years, like two, three or four years
ago or something. She went for a whole summer and
did a show there and loved it. It was great,
and I miss it. At times. I'll go and see
(44:14):
something and be like, damn, I want to do that,
and but um, the right thing at the right time
hasn't hasn't come together yet. I'll say that I'm running
out of time with you, but I wanted to do
uh some rapid fire questions with You've got it, you'd
be willing alright, rapid fire questions on the Wells Cast
with Brian baum Gardner. Here we go. What is your
(44:35):
favorite pizza topping, sausage? Favorite book? Uh? Uh? Ever? Yeah?
Or just the prayer for a prayer for owen meany.
I don't know why that popped into my head. Who
would you call to get you out of jail? Not
my mom? Did you ever have a poster hanging in
your bedroom wall? And if you did, who was on it? Yes?
Jack Nicholson as a joke, really original Batman truly Yep,
(44:58):
that's awesome. Should I not have admitted that? I don't know.
I'm trying to you're asking quickly. I'm trying to answer honestly. No,
that was great. Most people are like Bo Jackson or
something you know, or like Fara face. And I love
that that answer. That was later, I mean earlier, Okay, anyway, Yes,
that's an honest answer. Not when I was a boy.
That's creepy. But here's Johnny would be a terrifying moment
(45:21):
waking up at the middle of night. What is the
most expensive thing you've ever purchased for somebody else? Does
the house count? Yes? House? Who is your childhood hero man?
I don't know, I don't know. I mean I have
an answer. But Dale Murphy who played for the Atlanta
braves Dale Murphy When you were a single man, Did
(45:42):
you have a celebrity crush? There was Sarah Um what's
her name? Sarah High? Yeah, what's it? I can't think
of her name? No, I always thought Charlie Stone was dreamy.
Last question, who's your favorite character the Office? Kevin Malone
not included Dwight Trute. There you have it, rapid Fire
(46:05):
Questions with Brian baum Gardner. An oral history of the
Office is out on July on Spotify. Make sure you
go downloaded listen to it. Brian, thank you so much
for taking the time. This has been wonderful, very very
excited for this new podcast to come out. I cannot
wait to listen to the whole thing. But here and
you talk about the show just gets me excited for
(46:27):
said podcast because you can see how much like love
and excitement that just kind of oozes out of you
when you talk about it. So congratulations, But man, thanks wells.
I really really appreciate it. Thanks for having me on.
It was nice to chat with you. Yeah, man, stay
safe out there, don't go too crazy during the quarantine.
And um, I'm sure I'll see you around this weird
(46:47):
city soon enough later. Man. By the way, real last thing,
are there three notes in the history of music that
are more iconic than those three notes? I honestly think
that the three most iconic notes in musical history is this. Yep,
(47:10):
all right there. Wow, that's goods that. I like that
you immediately know what you're about to start doing when
you hear those three notes you do. It's funny that
you mentioned that, because I hear from people all the time,
either in person or social media or whatever, that they
talk about. It's the only show that doesn't matter how
(47:34):
many times did they keep watching on Netflix. They always listen.
They always listen to the theme, so they don't skip,
they don't skip the intro. That's that's said, way better.
It's interesting. Alright, Ryan, thanks so much. We'll go out
with the three most iconic notes in musical history. See man,
(47:56):
all right, thanks so much.
This is the Wells Cast with Wells Adams and I
heart radio podcast. That's right, that's what it is. It's
the Wells Cast. I don't know. I don't know never
to say in this. In this part of the show,
it always feels kind of weird. Why radio people always
have all those stupid sounders and music and beds and
(00:25):
stuff that talk over because it's everything is awkward. You're
just like, here we go again. Time to do uh,
time to do the thing that I do every week.
So buckle up, kiddos, here we go. That sounded weird too.
I don't know. You guys. Watch a couple of nights
ago Almoso on Kevin Hart's new game show called Celebrity
Game Face. No, okay, well, anyways, it was Kevin Hart,
(00:46):
his wife, Joe McHale, his wife, Terry Crews his wife,
and then Sarah and I and we, uh we did
his game show and we lost and Joe McHale cheated
I'm pretty sure whilst wearing way too short of shorts.
So whatever. If you watched that episode, we have to
uh power eat spaghetti, and in the middle of the
thing of power eating spaghetti, we're feeding Sarah and I
(01:07):
are feeding each other's spaghetti with those baby hands, with
tiny hands, you know. And in the middle of it,
I just leave our runt of the bathroom and Sarah
is having to finish the thing by herself, and she's like,
what where did he go? And Kevin is like what
happened to Wells? And Joel's making fun of me. It's
because I have this condition that like food gets stuck
in by esophagus. I don't know if anyone else has this,
(01:29):
but it happens to me all the time. All that
spaghetti got stuck in my esophagus. I had to go
runt of the bathroom and throw it up or I
was going to die. Maybe not die, but I assumeing it.
I was so much pain. And here's and you know what,
big shout out to the good people over there at
Entertainment Television because they cut that entire thing out because
I was miked up. You're just hearing me in the
(01:50):
background and Kevin Hart being like, is he okay? Are
we gonna get sued for this? What's gonna happen? So anyways,
I'm really excited about the show today and I'll tell
you why. I'll just do it let's just get you
guys ready for it. Okay, let's do it. I was
(02:13):
thinking about it before doing this show. I think the
three most iconic notes in music history is Billou. Listen,
you immediately know what you're about to watch when you
hear right, yeah, you do. So on the show today,
(02:35):
we're gonna have someone obviously from yes, the show The Office.
And if you're one of those people that wereld like
I don't know those three notes, then just unsubscribe because
you and I just don't the same. It's a humor,
is what I'm saying. So get out of here. No, actually,
please don't subscribed because I need I need the money
I can get right, Okay, because this is coming on
(02:57):
the Wells guys today, I have a guy who on
I think all the Emmys on a little show called
The Office. This dude broke into the industry only three
months after moving to Hollywood. Is crazy, by the way,
but The Office wasn't his first gig. He's got a
bunch of credits. Jacob Progress arrested development ever would be
in movies like Licensed to Wed four, Christmas Is the
(03:19):
Last Push, and even portraying a conflicted priest in into temptation.
But let's be fair, everyone knows him as Kevin at
least once a year. I like to bring in some
of my Kevin's famous chili. The trick is to undercook
the onions. Everybody is going to get to know each
other in the pot. I'm serious about this stuff up
(03:44):
the night before, pressing garlic and dicing whole tomato. That's right, guys.
So excited to have on the Wells Cast the one
and only Brian bum Gardner or well you probably know
him as Kevin Malone. Let's stick around. This is an
episode you are I'm gonna want to miss alright back
(04:14):
on the Wells Cast. Very excited to have on the
show Brian bom Gardner, also known as Kevin Malone from
the Office. How are you, my man? I am doing great, Wells.
How are you? I'm doing really good. I'm so excited
to have you on the show. One because I'm a
huge like everyone else in the world, I'm a huge
(04:36):
Office fan. But I'm also, like I kicked, come from
the world of radio, and so I really do love
hearing stories be told through my stereo system in my car,
and so I'm really really pumped that you are going
to be doing a podcast now for Spotify called an
Oral History of the Office. So just right off the bat,
(04:57):
tell us about what the hell this is? Basically was
worn out of what you were just saying that everybody
is a big fan of the Office. We're gonna pretend
we're old fronts, so we're just gonna talk frankly with
each other, right, Like we were the number one scripted
show on NBC for a number of years while we
were on Thursday nights at nine o'clock on NBC, and
(05:19):
the show was big, right, but from from us, especially
the cast perspective, the show is so much bigger now
seven years since we filmed the last moment of the show.
And really the podcast was born out of wanting to
explore the question of why why that is? Like why
(05:40):
literally eleven twelve thirteen year olds, fourteen year olds to
fifty seventy five year olds who are you know have
just found it on Netflix for the first time, but
particularly the young people, because when we were making the show,
we were like, oh, okay, we're maybe you know, there
(06:01):
was some stat at the time, right, I don't remember
what it was, but just say like three hundred million
people work in offices, so if some of those people
relate to the show, this will be huge. But like,
why do young people specifically looking back for this podcast,
about how decisions that were made in setting up the show,
in casting people, in hiring camera guys who had only
(06:25):
shot reality shows before, had never worked in scripted comedy before.
Why this sort of assembly of people that came together,
what made that specifically special and and and why it
has endured to today. And you know, the other thing
was we just wanted to tell the story ourselves. I mean,
you know, Ben silverman Um, who is the first person,
(06:48):
He's the one who got the rights to the show.
He kind of started the whole thing on the American
side from the British you know, came to me about
putting this together and me going to the cast and
just saying, like, I think we should tell our story.
I think people should hear from us, and not just that,
they should hear from us together talking to each other,
because people will see that. Maybe why it endures is
(07:10):
because people when they watched they see that that we
really did over the ten years become a family. So
I got to listen to the first episode like a
sneak peak of it. And what I thought was really
cool was you really dive deep in the nuts and
bolts of the show, like it's not all about like
Dwight's beat Farm. The first episode you have the casting
director on. I'm somewhat in the industry, so that's so
(07:34):
interesting to me. Wait, okay, so there's this one person
who has to find all these people, but she's done
all this other stuff. Who she picks really makes the
world of the office work. They were looking for unknown
people on the show because they wanted it to they
wanted it to appear that this was really These were
real people who were working in a paper company, so
(07:55):
they didn't want stars and what people you know, especially
who have founded on Netflix, like Steve Correll is one
of the biggest comedy stars on the planet. Right, But
this was before forty year old virgin Now, this was
before evanel My, you know. Now he's an Oscar nominee
for God's sake, you know. And Rain Wilson, you know,
he'd done a little something, a little u um recurring
(08:19):
role on six ft Under one season, but nothing really
and you know, John Korzinski was totally unknown. Um myself,
in fact, I went to my agent at the time.
I knew the British show and I knew there was
a character that Kevin was sort of taken from, called Keith.
And I was like, all right, I've just moved to
Los Angeles. If there is one role right now that
(08:42):
I could be cast as, just newly too, this is
the role, Like this is I get what this guy
is about. And I went to my agent at the
time and I told her that, um, you know, this
is what what I should be cast at, like I
should go out for this part. And then she said, well,
they're looking for unknown people, but not you, not like
(09:03):
totally completely unknown people, and uh, it was really about
Alison um and and And when the show was cast
she cast she cast a very wide net and and
found people that you know, other people weren't looking for.
It was really cool the what special skills in a
(09:25):
way they were looking for um from the people and
how we all fit together in that space. I had
Kate Flannery on the show a couple of months back,
and she told us that she originally auditioned for the
role of Jan Did you always want to be Kevin
or Keith or did you audition for other parts? Than
they kind of fitch you in. Yeah, I tell the
(09:46):
story in the podcast that originally I went I went
out for Stanley, they called me in for Stanley. Um,
Kevin was the role that was for me. And you know,
the British version of the Office there are fewer characters
than the American version. U. Greg Daniels knew he wanted
more people, um to populate the Office here. He wanted
the show to run longer and have more storylines. So
(10:09):
you know the reason that Angela you know, any character,
Greg always says, any character that that has their own
name in real life, those are the That's how you
know those were Those were characters that were added in
the American version. So um, there there was just you
know seven or something that that way that came from
the British and there was Kevin and on the Kevin
(10:31):
and Stanley. So going back to kind of like the
cultural phenomenon that is The Office and you trying to
like break down why the hell fourteen year old kids
who are into TikTok dances are binging the hell out
of a show that aired. You know, I'm in my
mid thirties, was was really you know my era show
(10:52):
what do you think it is? What? What is it
about that show that's bringing in an audience that like,
I can't even relate to right now? And I opened
up TikTok, I don't. I mean, I've done this podcast
in part to try to answer that question. I think
that one thing for sure was, you know, I said
(11:14):
we were these mostly middle aged. I mean I actually
was younger. I looked much older at the time, and
I started the show I was thirty one. But I
guess that's still middle aged if you're if you're twelve
worth thirteen. You know why that resonated. And I think
one of the answers that for sure I think is
true is much like these people are stuck in an
(11:36):
office spending more time with these people that they didn't
have any choice about than they do their own families.
Kids are in school, so there's something about the setup
of the show and how kids were. You know, there's
a teacher that maybe is unreasonable and maybe behaves in
a really weird way. Sometimes it makes you do ridiculous things,
(11:57):
and the people that you're sitting next to you may
not have chosen to, but you know, you're in a
school and you go, you know, five, six, seven years
in a row, depending elementary school or junior high. So
you know these characters, you know, these these archetypes, these
sort of brilliant archetypes, and so they go like, oh yeah,
my friend Sammy is like he's like the Kevin right,
(12:18):
and then there's the hot guy, and there's the you know,
the people who have the crush. So I think it's
became that we didn't see it at the time. It
makes sense that they get the show in that way
that in some ways it is built for them. Yeah,
I guess that's true. Like everything that we do, even
(12:39):
though if it isn't labeled as corporate, it is corporate.
Like if you are on a football team, it's so corporate.
There's the boss, who's the coach who's an idiot, you
know or whatever. There's the quarterback life is too easy
for him. There's the dipship, you know, like you're right,
Like anytime you have a bunch of people come together,
it's corporate, whether you like it or not, right, I mean, yeah,
(13:00):
there's a hierarchy, and there's somebody in charge, and there's
somebody who really wants to be in charge, but will
never be in charge because they're right, like Dwight right,
and and um, you have you have the person who's
sort of over it and above it all, whether that's
Jim in some you know, in some ways or Stanley
depending on the perspective, you know. So, yeah, it exists.
(13:21):
And I think another thing is and this is not
necessarily young people, but in some regard this is this
is crazy and kind of meta and weird to think about.
But think about it now, we're populated. People's jobs are
big box stores. Right. It was kind of a joke
(13:41):
that we were doing this show about a paper company,
like a dying industry paper like we were moving into
the video age, age of technology, and there's some nostalgia
actually for this where you actually go to a place
to get work, that you have health insurance, that you know,
you have holidays, like they're all of these things that
(14:05):
we think of as as as kind of unreasonable or
or you know, like stuck in your ways that now,
especially people going into the workforce now or having survived that,
and maybe a small business that's been downsized and now
you work at Staples or something like the experience of
working at Staples, whatever your job is, right, is totally different.
(14:29):
Than working at dunder Mifflin like it is like you know,
and and the corporate environments that you have to live
through now, and the seminars endless seminars that you have,
you know, what you can say and not say. It
touches on all of those things in a way that
I think potentially brings nostalgia even though it didn't happen
that long ago. For I heart, I still have to
(14:51):
do a million training sessions about how to act in
the workplace, and I do my show from my house. Right. Well,
this was this is an old story. We actually don't
talk about this in the podcast, but there was a
time right when we started to have to have a
year you know, NBC Universal Corporate, we had to have
(15:12):
a sexual harassment seminar, right like you should. But the
weird thing is is that the HR revs from NBCUniversal
would come over to our studio and they would show
clips because they were trying to make this this seminar interesting.
They would show clips from the office about how not
(15:34):
to behave in us and it's like, we must get
it right, like we're lampooning it already. Yeah, I don't.
I think we're set here. I think we get it,
but yeah, that was always funny to us. Oh man,
that is hilarious. The show ran for nine years, which
just doesn't happen really that often anymore in television. And
(15:59):
I talked to Kate, like I said, a couple of
months ago, and I had some some folks on from
like a full House, and I always try to relate
it to my life. And my fiance was on Modern Family,
which is on our show that ran for a very
long time. And after getting to know that cast and crew,
yes they are a TV family, but once you like
(16:20):
go hang out with them, I think it came across
very authentic on TV because that's how it was when
the cameras weren't rolling, And I assume that's how cast
and crew was like really really tight and really felt
like a family for sure. By the way, tell your
fiance Hi. The difference I think in the office in
really any show, because it's not really how network television
(16:43):
shows are made. It's why we struggled so much in
the beginning to even stay on the air was it
was no stars. There were there not none of us
knew anything right, and we all were also a little
bit older, and so we knew. You know, there's a
story Malaura Harden, who played jan had been on thirteen
(17:04):
or fourteen pilots hadn't been picked up. Nothing, nothing picked up,
like like living a lot, like getting what you want
as an actor, and just the show's never went anything.
They would film one show and then be done. Um,
you know to Steve working you know hard at Second City.
(17:24):
You know Kate Flannery who mentioned, you know, doing improv
comedy and you know, stuff off Broadway in New York
and myself I did theater, uh, you know, prior to
the show. And so I think that that gave us,
oh a universal real like nobody was jaded. There was
(17:46):
like a no jaded you know policy at the door,
like that you had to have no jade if you
were cast because you know, there wasn't anyone who had
any success. There was nothing for anybody to be jaded about.
So I think at that makeup on our show specifically
was a huge, huge part of it. I mean phillis
(18:06):
that you know, she was a casting director, she wasn't
even an actor, like, but it was about you know,
each individual skill that everybody had that that fit together
and made it made sense, and that because of the
show was shot the way it was, they didn't want
anybody famous on it. I mean that makes sense if
it's supposed to be a documentary or a mockumentary. If
(18:27):
you if you recognize somebody, then the gig is up.
I suppose when you look back on all nine seasons,
do you have most favorite episode? Because everyone, you know,
everyone which is now like trillions of people who like
love the show, has a favorite episode. Do you have
a favorite episode? I'll tell you a quick story. I
(18:48):
remember going back to my high school and this is
like the show had been on maybe six or seven years.
Like it had been on let's say seven years, sounds
like a good number. I went back and they were like, oh,
would you come back and would you talk to our students,
like would you do like a Q and A thing.
I was back at my hometown in Atlanta, and I
(19:11):
was like, okay, sure, and so I talked to uh
start talking and someone asked me the same question, you
know what, what was your favorite episode? And I said, well,
I kind of have an answer that I give and
I said, you know, the first answer that I always
say is diversity Day. And I was hit with like
(19:31):
a wall of sound coming at me. I was like
whoa like I was, and just even in that moment,
going okay, however old The oldest person in this room
is eighteen seventeen minus seven, right, if we're seven years
It was the second episode we ever did. Those people
(19:53):
were ten. Right if you're a freshman in high school,
like I can't do math very well, maybe you weren't
born yet. I don't even know. But it was that
like the universal recognition of title of episode and what
that episode was that completely blew me away. It's totally
(20:14):
exactly And so that was one of the first times
for me where I was like, oh man, they're like
really young people are watching the show now. Diversity Day
for me really special. Also for some reasons we talked
about in the podcast, the first Christmas episode that we
did was kind of where the show took a turn
(20:35):
from We're gonna be around for a little while. I think, um,
that was special in that way. It was also a
huge ensemble episode, like literally everybody had something funny interesting
to do. In fact, one of my favorite moments of
the maybe nine seasons is in that and from Kate Flanner,
who you mentioned, when she flashes her boobs at Michael
(20:57):
at the very end of that episode. It's like, that's
what she did in that episode, and that moment was
so perfect on like eighties seven levels that like you
know that, and um, you know for Kevin personally Kevin
meaning me, I guess, but for myself in terms of Kevin,
(21:19):
there was a series of episodes where um, Holly, who
eventually marries Michael, thinks that Kevin is is slow. That
for me, those episodes were so much fun just personally
to play and so rewarding and maybe the first, maybe
the longest set up to a joke in the history
(21:42):
of network comedy maybe. I mean it was a joke
that literally was four years into making that just was
really fun to play. All Right, I want to play
something for you, and then I want to talk about
it with you, because I would be remiss if we
didn't kind of just break this here. I like to
bring in some of my Kevin's famous chili. The trick
(22:04):
is to undercook the onions. Everybody is going to get
to know each other in the pop I'm serious about
this stuff up the night before, pressing garlic and dicing
whole tomatoes, I toast my own anto chilies that passed
(22:26):
down from Malan's generation. Okay, I won't play the entire clip,
but I mean, you spilling the chili is is iconic.
I feel like you only got one shot at this.
Like they're not bringing in like a cleaning crew to like,
let you try this again. So walk us through that
kind of iconic scene. First of all, I thought it
(22:47):
was cool. It was a little bit controversial at the
time because it was such a departure from and I
don't know, it's so crazy because people love the show.
That moment has gone so crazy for people, and it
is aesthetically it's quite different from literally everything else. There's
a voiceover that plays through the whole thing. It's a monologue,
(23:12):
it's all. It's like, there's so many things that are
different about it. But when we filmed it, I thought
it was very funny and perfect from a character stand
I mean, just like just the embodiment, it's so perfect.
Episode that comes up later on where Kevin says it's
good to just win one, and I feel like a
lot of things for him was kind of about that
in a weird way. I don't know, that's kind of
(23:33):
meta too. You're making me go deep. But about the scene.
Props crew came to me or set deck, maybe all
of them, and they were like, hey, man, so the
piece of carpet, right, I mean, where they were anticipating
the chili could go was essentially from the front door
of the office all the way in front of like
(23:54):
the reception desk, all the way to like where Jim
and Dwight sat, um. And so there was a humongous
piece of carpet, and they came to me, we have
three pieces of carpet, like, that's it. We have three
pieces of carpet. And after that were done, like there's
no chance to go anymore. So I was like, all right,
I mean, and I hear it's sort of a joke.
You know. They called me Mr one take, which is
(24:17):
true on so many levels, but I, um, yeah, I
got it in in one take. At the end of it.
They could have replaced the carpet. I don't know that
they could have replaced me in that because I was
my hands were slightly staying actually from from the chili itself.
(24:41):
But yes, that the fact that that thing is what
it is today, it is so unbelievably shocking to me.
I mean, I just can't. It's crazy. I imagine. It
wasn't a thing that in the moment you were like,
this is going to be like a huge thing. It
was just like like defined my like defined my life,
(25:05):
literally define my life. Um No, it wasn't. I thought
it was really funny, and I thought it was I
thought it was cool, and you know, I think that
I was about say something that literally the sum total
was that it makes me really awesome. But I will
(25:25):
say it anyway in a way, like doing physical comedy
like that is not easy, right, So it's sort of
like I probably got it in one take or I
wouldn't have gotten it in three, and maybe the scene
would have been like cut. And I mean specifically, like
technically I know that I'm going to spill the chili
(25:48):
as the actor going in, but making sure that it
doesn't look like I'm about spiling. You know, it's just
a it's a it's a technical difficult thing at times
to do that stuff. And so yeah, I had no clue.
It was a fun thing to do. Um it was
one of an experience and and it was kind of instantaneous.
It became a thing. And now with our Jiff Giff
(26:13):
giffee jiff whatever the hell they're called. I I can't
even get over. I mean it's it's not even once
a day. It's like, I don't know, ten times a day.
I mean it's like I get it's sent all the time.
Any of my social media is just there and I
can say. It's like I can say I'm going, I'm
(26:34):
I'm jumping on a plane to New York tonight, and
there was someone will say, don't spill the chili. I
mean it's like, no, those things don't make sense or
even like I'm talking about I don't know, like anything food.
Really I can't. I really I shouldn't, and I'm so stupid.
(26:55):
I forget and I'm like, oh man, yeah, I made
this great whatever meet item. And then it's just there's
no stopping the chili train at that point. Speaking of
gifts and gifts and memes and whatever, there is an
office COVID meme that's going around right now that I
(27:16):
do find pretty funny. It's everyone's character what they would
call coronavirus. Have you seen this? No, I didn't see
that one. I posted one. It's not so funny anymore anymore, actually,
but it made me like this was when it started.
It was what every office character would what their response
(27:40):
would be to it, right, And Kevin's to me was
the funniest too. It was like he's not concerned because
he already had it or something like that. It was,
but that was like when it first started, early on,
you know, Michael would want to have a meeting about it.
I don't remember what it was. I think I actually
posted that on social media, but no, what is this
what it would be called that it would call. Yeah,
(28:00):
so Jim calls it coronavirus. Dwight calls it COVID nineteen creed.
He's speaking Mandarin, so you can't you just make they
make any sense? Angela calls it the wrath of God.
Your character calls it weird flu. Yeah, Michael calls it
kung flu, which I guess makes sense. And yeah, anyways,
(28:20):
there's people that are that are left off the list,
and so I wanted to keep going and I want
to hear like what Kelly's would be, and you know,
but it's just so funny, Like memes. I don't even
know if they were a thing during the office, but
you guys are means so much now, which I guess
goes back to the original thing of like, all these
kids are totally gravitating towards your show. And I don't
(28:41):
even know if it's true, but I remember hearing some
stat that like The Office was the most Netflix show
ever or something like that. Yeah, that is true. So
since they started having a way to quantify streaming, that
was in seventeen, The Office, this is the most watched
show streaming. I remember this is like eighty two billion
(29:06):
that's with a bat minutes were watched on Netflix. And
then we got a stat that even you know, the
first quarter of of the Office was still the most
watched show. And on the first day of the coronavirus
on March, it's set a record for any show at
(29:26):
any point in any time, two hundred and fifty million
minutes in one day. It's it's unbelievable. I mean it
really is. I'm sorry to your fiance. There's really no
it is the most watch show in television today. There's
kind of no other metric that can quantify how many
(29:48):
people are watching it. It is in sanity. Don't worry
about Sarah. She's doing just fine. Uh, trust me, ask
her if she wants to trade places. I don't know
that I would marry you though I have another fair enough, well,
then it makes total sense for an oral history of
the Office to come out in podcast form. It releases
on the of July exclusively on Spotify. The first episode
(30:14):
will be available across all platforms. It's free on Spotify,
but after that you have to go to Spotify. The
first three episodes are launching on the same day, which
takes you through bringing the show from Britain to America
and then casting and then shooting the pilot or the
first three episodes. But I'm so incredibly proud of how
(30:35):
it's come together. It was so much fun because even
you know, we are a family and we do see
each other, but you know, like people have moved away,
like John Krasinski, almost like I gotta give his address
or something. What am I doing? He doesn't live in
Los Angeles anymore, so I don't I don't see him,
and so I went to where he was and we
had a, um, you know, a nice a nice day.
(30:58):
So yeah, that part of it has been really really fun.
So the entire shows in the can. The entire show
is in the can. We are still doing some tweaks
on the last two. But yes, So, what are some
guests that you had on this show that kind of
surprised you because that happens a lot to me where
I'll be like, I don't know if this energy is
going to be any good and then they come in
(31:19):
and I'm like, that was one of the best episodes
ever and I wasn't expecting it. Wow, that's a great question.
I really liked hearing from Ken Kappas, who directed the
pilot and the finale and some of the episodes in between.
Just hearing specifically, you know, what he and Greg Daniels
did to create the world of the show, how much
(31:41):
time was spent on that early on and things that
we were asked to do or made to do that
we were like, this doesn't really make much sense, Like
how that actually was a conscious decision that made all
the sense in the world. We were just too dumb
to see it. That was really interesting. I mean, being
able to sit down on with Greg Daniels himself one
(32:02):
afternoon for four and a half hours was unbelievable. UM,
because you know, he was our he was our leader
on set and UM and just hearing again from him
was fascinating. And then you know, we had our head
makeup person and hair person talking about the looks of people,
(32:24):
um and what they did. And you know, we've talked
the show has talked about so much. And I will
tell you I am kind of a nerd about the
business of television, so I was kind of paying attention
to stuff as it was going on. And there are
still and this is gonna sound so teasery, which is
because I'm the most opposite of that. I found out
(32:45):
like humongous groundbreaking things as I was doing this that
I didn't know because the people involved were still humble
and nice that they didn't think to have to talk
about it particularly and may being related to a crew
person or related to some fellow actors or something. So
(33:06):
you know that part, I was like, oh, I know
the story right, And then I'm like, holy lord, I
didn't had no idea about that. So I think that's
gonna be really fun for people. And and again, just
hearing us be able to banter back and forth, which
which we haven't done in person in a long time, well,
I'm excited to uh to hear the rest of it.
Like I said, I got a sneak preview of the
(33:28):
first episode. I think that's actually the second episode. That's
that's totally fine. Yeah, the second episode is the casting episode. Yeah. Well, regardless,
it was really interesting for me to hear and and
hear you guys kind of go back and forth on
just the creation of the show. So it's something that
everyone should go listen to when it comes out on
July four. All right, right, I want to be respectful
(33:50):
of your time, but I do want to kind of
do what my show is all about, which is origin story.
So let's take a quick break and when we come back,
I want to hear how the hell you got to
where you are now, Brian. I don't know if anyone
(34:19):
told you the kind of the idea for this show
is origin stories. I'm fascinated with how people got to
where they are now. And you're now this iconic figure
in you know, television history. I imagine a lot of
people think that, you know, you moved to Hollywood and
(34:39):
then you book the role of Kevin Malone and bing
bang boom, your a millionaire living in you know, the
Hollywood Hills. But I imagine that's not really how it
went down. Tell us, like where you came from and
how the hell you got here? I came from Atlanta, Georgia.
I was born Atlanta, Georgia. I was a huge believe
(35:00):
it or else. Steve Carrell calls me the greatest athlete
on the show. I was a big athlete when I
was growing up. I've told the story a few times before,
but surprisingly even close friends. Recently, I told someone who
was like, I've never heard that I had a leg issue.
I had, like something that was from birth. And I
mean I like, I thought I was gonna play be
a professional baseball player. Like that's really what I thought.
(35:22):
And Um, I had a leg issue, which was an
elective surgery that had to happen. Um, very long story short.
Something went wrong in the surgery and the cast that
they put on, the splint that they put on after
my leg um. You know, after they did the surgery,
which was fine, there was like a chemical mismixture or
(35:45):
it got too hot in one place. My leg turned
through the back of my leg to my achilles tendon.
That was basically it for me in terms of sports.
So I had to I was in a wheelchair, I
was in a walker basically over the course of a year,
two a year and a half, you know, learning to
rewalk again. And then because let the nature of the
surgery was which I want, bore people, they had to
(36:06):
go back in and do something else later, so I
had to have another one. And that was basically you
know it for me in that regard. And as I
was recovering, I was a super active kid, and I
was like, I need to find something else to do.
And I started doing theater and found that that was
something that I really enjoyed doing. So I went to
school for it. Um like creating a character, um, you know,
(36:31):
all of those things are like that's just what interested me.
So I went to school at s m U in
Dallas because at the time I thought they had the
best conservatory type training program in the country that was
within a university. Ponies right, exactly, thank you. Well that
(36:53):
was within a university, Like I said, so like there's
Juilliard or Carnegie Mellot. I didn't want to go to
a school like that, Like I wanted a college experience.
I'm that kind of guy. They had a great program,
so I went there. I did theater for a number
of years. I did my parents tell the story of
I graduated from uh College and I was working at
a small theater in Minneapolis, Minnesota. They flew up to
(37:15):
see me and there was like seven people in the
audience and they you know, they didn't they were smiling
and everything is great. And then like on the car
ride back to their hotel because I was in this
tiny they were like, what the hell is he doing?
Like what how we he has made a terrible error.
He always seemed like a smart guy. What is he
doing with his life? Now? That was amongst themselves. They
(37:39):
were always incredibly supportive of me. They didn't have that
conversation with you, like in front of you. That was
something that you heard later. That was something I heard later.
I mean, and and and some of it was not
like later like when you know I won an Emmy
for the Office, not that later, but more like, oh,
(37:59):
now he's doing you know theater. You know, he's going
to Berkeley Rep. You know, in in Berkeley, and you
know it was whatever the a thousands of people are
you know, five hundred people where that Like they would
joke about it then. So it wasn't like I thought
I was necessarily going to be on television or whatever.
But they would joke about it that you know, and
their responses later, but no, they were always super, super encouraging,
(38:24):
and that's what I did, and that that was what
I thought my life was. I recently told this story.
I don't know if I've told this story publicly actually,
but UM, I recently told the story to Alison Janny.
Alison Janny, if you don't know, is one of the
greatest American actors alive. UM. You've seen her in thousands
(38:44):
of movies and West Wing, you know, she did whatever
D two hundred episodes, and she was a she was
a big star in New York. Like, she was a
working actor. And I was working for a time running
a theater company in UM in Minneapolis UM at that time,
and I was traveling to New York. I was like
looking at new shows and I had a relationship with
(39:06):
a playwright who had written a play. She was and
it was like every time I showed up, Alison Jenny
was in whatever show I was seeing. And I remember
going backstage, I'm a kid, I'm theater and many like,
no one wants to talk to me, and I'm sort
of like this fly on the wall backstage in the
green room, and I hear her talking to a friend
and she's saying, well, there's this play that I really
(39:29):
want to do, but if I do that play, you
know then I I can't do anything in between. And
there's gonna be six weeks and you know, how am
I going to pay my rent? And my mind was blown.
I was like, this is Alison Janny. Now this is
before anyone knew who she was unless you saw plays
(39:51):
in New York. But to me, like one of the
best actors, and I mean on Broadway show after Broadway show,
off big off Way shows. And I was like, if
she's worried about making rent, like because she can't work
for six weeks, I'm like, what is And theater is hard, man,
it is hard. I mean I complain now when I
(40:15):
don't have a water in my hand the moment I
think that I wanted but that's a joke people, But
I mean it's it's hard work. And you know, eight
shows a week, six days. Monday is your day? What
who does anything on Monday? You have no life. I
just was like, Okay, I think at some point I
(40:35):
want to go to Los Angeles, want to see what
else is out there. And so um, I struggled, and
I was but I was getting roles in theater, and
eventually I was getting roles at big theaters across the
country in New York or wherever else. UM, And I
was like, it was hard, kind of like the Allison story,
(40:59):
Like I I didn't want to say no to something,
so I just I finally just cut it off. And
I was like, Okay, I'm gonna do this show and
then I'm gonna stop, and I'm gonna go to Los
Angeles and try. And then funny enough that you told
the story you did once I got to Los Angeles. UM,
I happened to meet Greg Daniels and the folks at
(41:20):
the office three to four months after I arrived. So
once I arrived in Los Angeles, the rest of that
happened pretty quickly. But it was it was a number
of years before I ever ever got there. Yeah, well,
you paid your dues in Minneapolis Winters. I feel I
feel like you were you were you were owed one.
(41:42):
Yes for for sure. Yes that for me, you know,
it was it was really born out of the theater.
And I love the theater, and I think, you know,
the live theatrical experience that you have that only happened,
you know, you could do the same play through three
years in a row, eight shows a week, but every
night is different. Um, because of the audience, the experience
(42:06):
that's happening in the moment I do. I love it.
It's really hard, It's it's really difficult. It's a difficult
life for sure. I will say like, when The Office
started becoming a success, it was like, you know, I
was so proud of so much work that I did, like,
you know, stuff that was difficult for me or challenging
(42:27):
in a way. And overcame something, you know, to do
some role in some play, and I was like, and
you know how many people saw it if it ran
for three months? You know, And and and the the
the ability to be able to entertain people make people
think think about things in a new way. I think
The Office is one of the things that's special about that.
(42:49):
You know, we were talking about race and sexuality and discrimination, um,
women's issues. You know, we were talking about that stuff
in a way made people uncomfortable. And I was tremendously
proud of that as well. Now, being a guy that
came from the theater world than kind of jumping into television,
(43:11):
is theater something that you want to get back to
I've had some discussions about it, and I've definitely thought
about it, and I would love, especially love, at least
at this point, to find some way to go back
to some of the great, great theaters that I worked
in again and do something. Yeah, I mean, this is
like so boring industries type stuff, but it is. It's
(43:33):
also just a huge time commitment and sort of going
back to the Alison. You know, if I have anything
that I'm working on here, it becomes really really difficult
unless you're just saying I'm just gonna go and do that.
And Jenni Fisher did it. She she went to New
York and she wanted to do a show and she
(43:53):
she hadn't done Um that's not where her you know,
where she came from. So she wanted to have that
experience and she did it. I I'm gonna I'm so
bad at the years, like two, three or four years
ago or something. She went for a whole summer and
did a show there and loved it. It was great,
and I miss it. At times. I'll go and see
(44:14):
something and be like, damn, I want to do that,
and but um, the right thing at the right time
hasn't hasn't come together yet. I'll say that I'm running
out of time with you, but I wanted to do
uh some rapid fire questions with You've got it, you'd
be willing alright, rapid fire questions on the Wells Cast
with Brian baum Gardner. Here we go. What is your
(44:35):
favorite pizza topping, sausage? Favorite book? Uh? Uh? Ever? Yeah?
Or just the prayer for a prayer for owen meany.
I don't know why that popped into my head. Who
would you call to get you out of jail? Not
my mom? Did you ever have a poster hanging in
your bedroom wall? And if you did, who was on it? Yes?
Jack Nicholson as a joke, really original Batman truly Yep,
(44:58):
that's awesome. Should I not have admitted that? I don't know.
I'm trying to you're asking quickly. I'm trying to answer honestly. No,
that was great. Most people are like Bo Jackson or
something you know, or like Fara face. And I love
that that answer. That was later, I mean earlier, Okay, anyway, Yes,
that's an honest answer. Not when I was a boy.
That's creepy. But here's Johnny would be a terrifying moment
(45:21):
waking up at the middle of night. What is the
most expensive thing you've ever purchased for somebody else? Does
the house count? Yes? House? Who is your childhood hero man?
I don't know, I don't know. I mean I have
an answer. But Dale Murphy who played for the Atlanta
braves Dale Murphy When you were a single man, Did
(45:42):
you have a celebrity crush? There was Sarah Um what's
her name? Sarah High? Yeah, what's it? I can't think
of her name? No, I always thought Charlie Stone was dreamy.
Last question, who's your favorite character the Office? Kevin Malone
not included Dwight Trute. There you have it, rapid Fire
(46:05):
Questions with Brian baum Gardner. An oral history of the
Office is out on July on Spotify. Make sure you
go downloaded listen to it. Brian, thank you so much
for taking the time. This has been wonderful, very very
excited for this new podcast to come out. I cannot
wait to listen to the whole thing. But here and
you talk about the show just gets me excited for
(46:27):
said podcast because you can see how much like love
and excitement that just kind of oozes out of you
when you talk about it. So congratulations, But man, thanks wells.
I really really appreciate it. Thanks for having me on.
It was nice to chat with you. Yeah, man, stay
safe out there, don't go too crazy during the quarantine.
And um, I'm sure I'll see you around this weird
(46:47):
city soon enough later. Man. By the way, real last thing,
are there three notes in the history of music that
are more iconic than those three notes? I honestly think
that the three most iconic notes in musical history is this. Yep,
(47:10):
all right there. Wow, that's goods that. I like that
you immediately know what you're about to start doing when
you hear those three notes you do. It's funny that
you mentioned that, because I hear from people all the time,
either in person or social media or whatever, that they
talk about. It's the only show that doesn't matter how
(47:34):
many times did they keep watching on Netflix. They always listen.
They always listen to the theme, so they don't skip,
they don't skip the intro. That's that's said, way better.
It's interesting. Alright, Ryan, thanks so much. We'll go out
with the three most iconic notes in musical history. See man,
(47:56):
all right, thanks so much.
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