Johnny Bananas

Wells connects with reality tv superstar Johnny Bananas. Find out who Johnny really is and why he’s bananas. They share some behind the scenes stories from their time as the “Worst Cooks in America”. Johnny gets real about what really went on during “The Challenge”.

 

We hear how Johnny went from a directionless college student to dominating reality TV and find out why Johnny Bananas was “born of hurricanes”. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is the Wells Cast with Wells Adams and I
heart radio podcast. That's right. Welcoming to the Wells Cast
as Wells. Not Claire Crowley, but I do wish she
was hosting this podcast right now so we can find
out what the hell is going on in Bachelor Nation.

(00:23):
I mean, seriously, twelve days. I don't know if any
of this stuff is true, but I'm just hearing reports that, like,
she fell in love in twelve days. You know, the
world is like, there's no way that anyone could ever
fall in love on the Bachelorette in just two months.
And Claire's like, you want a bed listen, that's amazing.

(00:48):
So anyways, obviously it's gonna come out a couple days later,
so more stuff might come out. I don't know, but anyway,
it's happy for Tasia. No her lover served to drinks
in Mexico, watched her, you know, to be the Bachelorette
in Paradise. She was dealing with JPJ and Derek and
probably other guys I don't even remember now it was

(01:08):
a while ago. I mean, Chris always does like it's
gonna be the most dramatic season ever in Batched, learning
that it should have his story, and you know what
is it is. It is absolutely going to be Bunkers
this year, and I'm so excited about it. Speaking of
being excited, I'm super pumped for today's episode. I've said
in the past, like the best people to interview are

(01:29):
your friends, and I'm lucky enough to have friends that
are kind of worthy of you guys wanting to listen
to this podcast. I know their story, and then I
do the show and then I'm like, wait, what that happened?
I didn't even know that. To be fair, this guy
wasn't really a friend of mine until about four months ago,
five months ago, and then we did a show together
and it was just clicked, Like, it was so much fun.

(01:52):
There's so much of doing a television show that you
don't see. There's so much behind the scenes crap. There's
so much like after production going and getting beats and
talking crap that you just don't see and don't know about.
I got to know this guy and it was so
much fun doing the show. But this guy's resume is
absolutely bananas. That was good. He's been on a million shows,

(02:18):
literally a million shows, Real World, Key West Challenge seasons,
the Duel, The Inferno Three, The Gutlet Three, The Island,
The Ruins, Gutthroat Rivals, Battle of the Exes, Rivals Too,
Free Agents, Battle of the Excess Too, and Battle of
the Bloodlines, just to name a few. He now hosts

(02:41):
his own show, and be honest with you, when he
was telling about this show that he was hosting when
we were doing this other show, was like, they gave
you that show that sounds awesome. It's called First Look.
It's on NBC and Peacock and like all that stuff.
And basically he just travels around the world searching for
the best places to eat and play and indulge and
just be himself from like vineyards and fra ants, the
beaches of the Caribbean, the farmer's market in Los Angeles,

(03:03):
the nightlife, Kay Town, everything between. Dude, It's it's literally
a dream job. But let's be honest. Today we got
to talk to my guest about his recent big win
on the Challenge Total Madness one half a million dollars.
He had to live in a bunker in the Ukraine
for like two months. I watched the season with like,

(03:25):
it absolutely sucked, but I guess it was worth it.
Because it's a good fade day. I want to hear
about his alliance with his longtime foe West. I want
to find out about his new relationship with fellow challenger
Morgan Willett. I want to know how the helly guy
is crazy? Last name. So coming up on the Wells Cast,

(03:46):
the one the only Mr Reality TV himself, Johnny Bananas,
This one you're not gonna want to miss. Is that

(04:09):
a Paps blue ribbon? You sick? Yeah? I'm having a
beer because I'm a gold dude, such class man, class
class a bartender. Yeah, shouldn't you be drinking like shouldn't
aren't you a mixologist? Shouldn't you be drinking like an
old fashioned or like a buttery nipple or something? You're
having a PAPS blue ribbon? Johnny? You know, I may

(04:31):
be a bartender, but I'm also a fan of being
fiscally responsible, Okay, and perhaps a ribbon is a great
taste for a great price. Gets the job done. It
gets the job done, man, Johnny Bananas on the Wells Cast.
I've been looking forward to having you on my man.
It's good to see you, even though we are going
through Ethernet, cables and digital air waves. But it's good

(04:53):
to see you again. I want to say, first and
foremost congratulations on is it your seven n win on
the Challenge of the Rings? My friend? Yeah, big number seven.
It's so funny because when we rewind the reels back
to the beginning of the year when we were filming
Worst Cooks, You're sitting there telling me about your experience,
and was it in the Ukraine or in Russia? Yeah, Prague,

(05:16):
the Czech Republic. It actually wasn't in Prague. We were
in a Soviet era anti aircraft missile bunker about I
don't know, thirty miles outside of Frog buried in a
mountain bunker turn off. Yeah. I remember like we'd finished
filming and we'd go get drinks and you'd be like, bro,
we were living in a bunker, like it sucks so hard,

(05:37):
And I'm like, how bad could it really have been?
Because all of my experiences on television, I'm like in
Mexico serving up drinks and I'm like, this is okay.
And then I watched it back and I'm like, that sucks, dude.
I mean, you want a lot of money, but you
had to earn every penny of that k and let's
just clear this up just because we put this out there.
I was talking about the experience, but I did not

(05:57):
give you any spoilers, right, you didn't. You didn't tell
me anything, but you were like, you were you need
to watch this season. And I always remember you telling
me that you were cursed, and I was like, what
do you cursed? Yeah? A lot lots of a lot
to unpack here, dude. So yeah, first Worst Cooks in America.
I gotta say, what an experience that was. And it

(06:18):
was crazy because I just come off, like you said,
I mean, arguably one of the most I've done twenty
seasons of the Challenge. I've been doing the Challenge since
it's not it's inception, but I did when it was
still Carnival Games, when it was still club Med, when
it was still you and a bunch of people get

(06:39):
together and it's spring break. I've been there through the
evolution from it going from that to what it is now,
which is the most insane mental, physical, diabolical head game.
And they just keep up in the anti and uh yeah,
this season. It's like every every season they find something

(07:03):
new to take away and a new way to kind
of just mess with you, and this season it was
let's take away sunlight, let's take away their oxygen, and
let's put them in a bunker. So that's what it was.
The challenge back in the day, dude, back in its infancy,
it used to be carnival games. Man. It was like,
all right, today's challenge. You're gonna smear paint on your

(07:24):
body and roll around on a canvas. You're gonna melt
a block of ice with your body. You're gonna uh
put a chicken suit on, and you're gonna walk on
a treadmill with itching powder. Now it's We're gonna put
you in ice, cold, freezing water until you get hypothermia.
We're gonna dangle you off a sixties story building. We're
gonna strap you to the front of a tank and

(07:46):
drive you through an exploding mine field of like bombs.
We're gonna put you on the top of the Austrian
Alps in neck deep snow. Uh, you know, at ten
thousand feet where you're gonna have to survive for two days.
So I mean it's gotten, it's gotten, And dude, well
it was fun to watch got like super entrenched in
all the rivalries and the alliances, and stuff. How much

(08:09):
thought went into your alliance with west beforehand A lot.
I mean, I'm obviously and I mean you know this,
I think at this point, I'm doing reality television as
long as you have you start to learn how the
show works, You start to learn the inner workings, You
start to learn how to not just be a good
cast member, but basically an embedded producer. And I feel
like that's kind of what I've evolved into being now.

(08:32):
While I do think that like I obviously provide entertainment
from the cast the cast member talent perspective, I also
and really good at kind of like creating storylines. So
going into this season twofold, it was done out of necessity,
but it was also done out of storyline. So going
into this season, it was like, Okay, I've basically run

(08:55):
the gambit of of things that I can accomplish on
this show other than winning one thing season after season
that you know, fans just kept on saying had to
be done was putting this rivalry with west bergman aside,
putting our minds together and absolutely torturing everybody on the
show and providing fans with It's almost like in wrestling,

(09:19):
it's like you have these two heels, like you have
these two diametrically opposed characters that come together, and it's like,
what's that gonna what's that gonna look like? And so
for the longest time, I mean West Bergman and I
have argued that had the longest running rivalry on television.
What started happening was season after season, especially the prior

(09:40):
to seasons before Final, before Total Madness, World, the World's One, World,
the World's two. We both went in in day one,
went after each other. He got the best of me
the first season. I got the best of him the
second season, but in the end, neither one of us
ended up winning. And what we were essentially doing was
paving the way and making the road so much easier

(10:00):
for the newcomers and even some of the vets who
knew season after season, if West and Bananas are there,
they're gonna go after each other. We could just sit back,
let the bullets whiz over our heads while they kill
each other off, and once one or both of them
are gone, we then can capitalize on the fact that
we didn't have to do the legwork. We could sit back,
let these two go at it like idiots take each

(10:23):
other out and then we'll reap the benefits. Him and
I kind of came to a consensus into an agreement
after World the World's too that this had to stop.
And this was done not just out of I think
we both, you know, put our production hats on, like
this is gonna be a great storyline, but we need
to do this, I mean out of necessity. We're both
in our twilight years, right. We've both contributed such an

(10:44):
incredible amount to the challenge over the years, and I
think the challenge today what it is, in large part
is due to the amount of time, the amount of years,
the amount of of storyline, the amount of sweat, blood
and tears that we've put into it. You know, we
were just like the one thing that hasn't been done
that needs to happen is us joining forces. We'll see

(11:05):
how that goes. And it went way better than I then,
I think either one of us could have ever dreamed of.
From my stance watching it back, it definitely seems like
you and Wes get away with a lot more than
like everybody else does for whatever reason, like things that
piss off everybody else, you guys are doing as well,

(11:25):
and no one really gives you guys for it? Is
it just because you're just have been around for so long?
What's the deal? Wes and I are both separately on
our own, are both very feared in this game. Okay,
There's certain people that when you come onto the challenge,
whether you've been there for ten years, whether this is
your first season, there are certain people in the game

(11:46):
that you that you look out for that you know,
this person is is gonna be trouble, all right, This
person knows the ropes, been there, done, that will literally
eat my lunch if I, you know, kind of opposed them. However,
in the past season's because him and I were on
opposite side of the house, people could kind of come
in and choose one side or the other, and that's
generally what happened. There are people that that would be

(12:07):
on my side, there's people that be on western side.
By us then working together this season, it not only
neutralized our rivalry, but it also neutralized any other rivalry
that either one of us had with other people in
the house. What went being in a movable object became
like an unstoppable force when the two of us joined forces.
So yeah, we could literally get away with doing and

(12:31):
saying whatever we wanted to whoever we wanted because we
had this I mean do we We literally were this
unstoppable force, and uh, there was nothing anyone could do
about it. And that was the best part. I mean,
we we could manipulate people do things that wasn't in
the best interest of their game, sit back and laugh
about it, and have there be absolutely no repercussions. And

(12:52):
I think that's what was so great about this season.
A lot of people came away from this season for
me being like, you looked like for the first time
in a long time, you seemed like you were having
a good time, and it really was. By putting that
rivalry aside with him, it really allowed me to kind
of relax a little bit, go back to the old

(13:13):
me and just be mischievous man, and just play pranks
on people and just mess with people's heads, torture people
and uh and have a good laugh because I knew that,
you know, uh, you know, there was a there was
a sick and twisted individual on the other side who
was just as devious and diabolical as I was. And um,
and it ended up it ended up working out well

(13:35):
for me more than him. That's you know, that's the
way the game goes. Obviously, hindsight and a lot of
things get left in the editing room floor. I know
this just as much as you do. But when I
watched that show, it seems so evident that you guys
are in cahoots together, and for some reason, the entire
cast was like blown away when they found out that
you guys had hatched this scheme together. Is it everyone

(13:59):
just so stupid or like, were you guys that secretive
about it? There was no secret. Here's the thing. There's
a lot yes, yes, a lot of people. Yes, there
are a lot of dumb people on this show. Okay,
But the thing with Wes and I is it didn't
pass the smell test. You literally, our rivalry has been

(14:19):
so long and ongoing for for so long that even
when people saw it happen, it like defied all logic
and rationality, and people were like, I know, I'm seeing
this with my eyes, but I don't believe what I'm seeing.
And I think that's what it was more than anything.
It's not like we were in the We weren't keeping
anything as secret. I mean, we were out there in

(14:40):
the open day one being like yeah, we're working together,
but nobody believed it, and we had kind of in
the past, in the past that had kind of been
our thing too. It was kind of like a joke,
this ongoing joke where we'd be in the house and
anytime West got near me, I yelled as loud as
I could, like, no, Wes, I won't join your secret alliance,
you know, And it became at this joke where it's like,
all right, we know that they're not working together, but

(15:01):
ha ha, funny joke because it's like so counter to too,
Like I said, anything that would take place. I mean,
you know what it would be like if Donald Trump
and Joe Biden joined forces and join like a presidential
ticket together. Nobody would believe it. They'd be like no, no,
no, no no, this is like, that's how unbelievable, you know,

(15:21):
just insane, the idea of the two of us coming together.
We're but that almost worked in our favor because it's
not like we were pulling the wool over every anyone's eyes.
Nobody could nobody could accuse us of lying to them
or or not being opened our plans. We were open
about a day one. I mean, you know that that
that we had this thing that we were gonna be

(15:43):
working together. It was just like like I said, I mean,
it was just nobody believed that. Nobody could actually believe
what they were saying, or even if they didn'ven like, okay,
they're working together. Nobody believed, including I think the two
of us, that it would actually work. Trust, like in
real life, is one of the hardest things a game
and one of the easiest things to lose. It's so
difficult to find someone that you actually can rely on,

(16:05):
you can actually trust because the entire game is about
manipulating people, screwing people, over lying to people, being conniving.
So you take that aspect and you try and apply
it to this person that I could not trust as
far as I could throw them. And this is not
only a person that you know, I kind of needs
to rely on the game, but like the only person

(16:26):
I have. To this day, I'm still sitting here, like
wondering how it worked out as well as it did. Um,
but it was. It was magical. You know, you believe
in miracles. Uh, since we did that, I think, I think,
and anything is possible. Man, anything is possible. Obviously you're
very good at this game. You've you've won seven times,
You've done it over twenty of them. Kind of got
to be a five to a player. You gotta be
able to hit, you gotta be able to run, you

(16:47):
gotta be able to field, you gotta be able to
play defense. You know, you have to have this social game.
You have to have this kind of like brute strength game.
You have to have this desire to not give up game,
and then you also have to have this puzzle solving game.
For you a guy who's one, I guess more than
anybody else, what is your strongest part of the game. So,
and I've always said this, man, I always forget who
the quote is from, some philosopher. I'll remember it, but oh,

(17:12):
it's a Darwin. Darwin said in nature, it's not the
strongest nor the smartest that survives. It's those with the
ability to adapt. And I've never been the strongest guy
in the game. I've never been the smartest person in
the game. What I have been, though, is able to
adapt kind of. I think what has set me aside

(17:35):
from a lot of other players is the challenges like
this constantly. It's like predicting the weather. You could be
on top of the mountain one day and on a
on a on an island by yourself the next. You
could go from having the entire house behind you to
the entire entire house against you. You could go from
sitting pretty on your way to a final two now
having the fight and struggle and to get your way out.

(17:57):
It's the people who who can't adapt to the changes
in the game t J and the challenge. They love
throwing curveballs. They never want you to feel comfortable, and
when you do, when you get complacent, that's when you
get screwed up. So my ability I think to a
adapt to the show, to adapt to the to the
changing landscape, to navigate it. But also my ability I

(18:19):
think to understand and to read people. I Q has
often talked about, right, someone's i Q is off the charge.
They're so smart that what I would argue is even
more important than i Q is EQ and your emotional
quotation and your ability to understand the human condition. And
I think that I have, for whatever reason, been blessed
with the ability to not just understand people and read people,

(18:42):
but understand how people and why people do things, especially
in group settings. I've always said this, I think the
challenge is the most amazing sociology experiment on Earth. There
should be like classes taught about. It's probably the same
with with with other reality television shows as well, but
the challenge is different because we are put in this
science experiment. We're basically put in like a terrarium. We

(19:04):
have no contact to the outside world. We have no
you know, interference or whatever from from producers. They put
us in this game. They give us these these incredibly
difficult things to figure out and to work through. They
put incredibly volatile people. They add alcohol, they add you know,
the pressure of isolation, they add all these different elements
to it, and then it's figure it out and you

(19:26):
honestly have to like figure your way out of chaos man.
And I don't know what that says about me. I
think the fact that I have been able to navigate,
you know, a very chaotic landscape for as long as
I have and not have it I think completely destroy
my my my psyche um. I don't know if that
means that I'm incredibly strong or incredibly psychotic, or a

(19:48):
combination of both. I think few people find what they're
in life, what they're really cut out and meant to do,
and I feel like for whatever reason, man, the challenge,
the competition, strategic part, the social game. Um, it's just
I'm just I'm just wired for it. Man, I'm just
I'm just good at it. After getting to do a
reality show with you and kind of like seeing how

(20:09):
you work through a competition show and then getting to
watch the show, and then also being someone who played
like collegiate ball, I remember something a coach told me,
like early on when I played ball, was was that
if you're not cheating, you're not trying. And that's a
thing that a lot of people here they're like, I
can't believe you would say that, but it's true. If
you're not looking for angles to be able to better
your opponent, then you're and I've noticed it from you.

(20:33):
You all are always looking for a angle and you
always find it too, which is really weird. Again, that's
how I've always been wired, man, Like I have a
degree in economics from Penn State from the business School.
There's no reason on earth that I should have a
degree from Penn State's business school. You want to talk

(20:54):
about cutting corners, I cannot tell you what I did
and the abolical ways that I found to just get
a leg up on people to to you know, I
hope they don't revoke my diploma for saying this, But
I mean, dude, I had any chance, I got to
cut a corner and to to cheat. If I could,
I did. My dad always says if you want to

(21:15):
find and I don't. I don't consider myself lazy, but
he always says, if you want to find the easiest
way to do something, you look for the laziest person
on the job, because they will find the most efficient,
easiest way to do something. And it's not that I'm lazy.
I just feel like I want to work smarter and
not harder. If I could do something where if I

(21:35):
could find a loophole or an angle that makes it
easier for me to to accomplish something, I'm not gonna
be this guy that's like, you know, I'm not gonna
put in all this brute force if I if I
don't absolutely need to. I think that that's a great
way to go about doing things. And again, I think,
not just the challenge, but life in general is about
finding Look at inventions, man, Every great invention ever made

(21:59):
is just making something easier to do, and it's making
something more efficient, and I just feel like I'm inventive, man.
So that's just it's just how I've always been. Producers
hate it, hate it, don't Did you see that? Did
you see the decontamination Challenges season? We had to run
into the phone party? Yeah, and I want I was
gonna bring it up and you do this thing where
you you can see like the reflection of the lights

(22:20):
and so you're able to remember it before you go
through the phone thing. And I remember thinking that was genius.
But I was watching with Sarah and she's like, it's
so smart, but he's cheating. He is, but he's not.
That's on the producers for not figuring out that they
should have boarded off. And that's why what blows my
mind even more is this is the fact there were

(22:41):
thirty people there. I was one of eight at that time,
I think one of twenty eight people. Everybody had the
exact same vantage point that I did, but somehow nobody
else saw this obvious bro it could not like from
my vantage point. I'm looking because I always do that.
I always try and find, especially with something like that
a memory game. I'm good memory. What's an easier way

(23:01):
for me to do this. Everyone's like, we're gonna work together.
I'm gonna remember five, You're gonna remember five. We're gonna
do it. I'm like, now, and I saw it before
my round started. I was the third round. The fact
that in three rounds twenty seven other people did not
see that's what blew my mind. Weren't anything I'll never
forget to when they found it. So I after my round,
which I still believe I won. I still believe that

(23:23):
I won that. But they were so pissed that I
that I the way I wanted. They were like, we
can't give this guy to win, but we also can't
fault him for cheating because he really didn't. He stood
there and just looked. They can't believe. They can't be like, listen,
you cheated because you were looking somewhere. You should not
have been looking. After that whin, I'm sitting there and
I was pointing out because they were like, what did
you do? You didn't even go in, And I'm pointing.

(23:44):
I was telling Rogan, I'm like, dude, look at the
look at the blinking and I'll never forget. The cameraman
is over my shoulder filming what I'm seeing. And he
goes into his mic and he goes, are you seeing
what I'm seeing? And after that I was like, God, damnit,
maybe I shouldn't have said anything, dude. But so there
was a season a while ago, but I do that
there was this season a while ago where the object

(24:05):
was you had to put your head in this plexiglass
box and there was grasshoppers and there was cock roaches
in this box. And we had to do is catch
these things with your mouth, chew them up, spit them
into a tube which then went into a beaker, and
after thirty minutes or whatever, whosever beaker weighed the most
with these chewed up bugs, they won. Now, the whole

(24:29):
point of the challenge was to catch bugs in your mouth.
I figured it's gonna be easier if I just stunned
these things with my head. So what I did is
I was just smashing bugs with my forehead all right,
stunning these things and picking them up when they were
already like you know, on their backs, like with wriggling around,
and I just picked them up and spit them down

(24:49):
the tube. Meanwhile, all these other people are sitting there,
like you know, flying around the inside of this box,
trying you know how hard is to catch a grasshopper
with your mouth so much easier, Like I'm just gonna
smack these things in my head and pick them up
when they're already dead. They were not happy about that either.
So I'm a thorn in production side, always have been.
Have you ever seen the movie Catch Me if you can?

(25:10):
You know how after Leonardo DiCaprio was caught for being
this like check he was he was the best guy
at forging checks. The FBI hired him to spot faulty checks.
I almost feel like they should hire me on production
to look at their games and find and be like,
all right, punch as many holes in this game as
you possibly can, just to like tighten them up. You know,
I definitely think you deserve a producer credit on the show.

(25:32):
I mean, you're you're you're definitely narrating a lot of
the show when I watched them. When I watched the
reunion show, I was like why And I literally turned
to Sarah and I go, why the funk isn't Johnny
hosting this? And why do we have an ex football
player hosting this thing? Reading a prompter? Johnny would be
so much better at this. I don't understand what's going on. Listen.

(25:52):
I literally could talk to you about this forever, but
this isn't really what this show is. To kind of
close it out, Was this your best win ever? And
are you gonna be coming back to do more seasons
the challenge? Or are you going out on top? Was
it my best season? Was it the Was it the
most rewarding? Absolutely? Was it the hardest? Thought? No, was

(26:16):
the amount of pressure for me to win ten million
times greater than it's ever been in the past, without
a doubt. So from a physical just straight up physical standpoint.
Rivals one was the hardest challenge I've ever done. I
mean I I the final it was the It was
the most intense, diabolical, asinine, just physically ridiculous challenge you've

(26:41):
ever We've ever done, first overnight challenge, first time we
had to stay up for twenty four hours and not sleep,
had to stand on rocks. I mean, it was brutal
if you want to if you want to see a
true I mean absolutely brutal Final Rivals One. However, there
was a point in my challenge career, dude, when I
was just knocking down wins like it was nobody's business,
and it just came almost easy to me. I almost

(27:04):
took those wins for granted. I took some of those
wins for granted because I felt like I just come
in every season and I'd be like, I'm either gonna
go to a final, I'm gonna win a final. There,
it's that's just let's just fast forward the next seven weeks,
just put us there. Then, after what you referred to
earlier my the curse, which is when I stole two
d seventy five thousand dollars from my female partner, didn't
even sniffle final for the next six seasons. The amount

(27:28):
of pressure that that started to accumulate for me to
make it back to a final and to win became
so great that this season, making it to this final,
I and I said this in my final interview. Had
I not seen this one through, I don't know if
I would have been able to like ever make it
back to that point. I probably could have done. I

(27:48):
would have done future seasons, but I don't think I
would have ever been able to just mentally get over
that hurdle. That would have just been too mentally just
I feel like devastating. So as far as that's concerned,
the fact that I was able to get that seventh
elusive win put myself ahead of Michael Jordan's and Tom
Brady for most championships of all time. The fact that

(28:10):
I have proved once and for all curses are not
in fact real, or they're made to be broken, and
to just not just prove to myself that I still
had it in me and my friends and fans. But
there is nothing better, wells, no better feeling on earth
than to shut every fing hater up and be like,

(28:32):
what do you got? Now? What on earth can you
possibly say? Now? I mean, there's all these Obviously they
come out of the woodwork saying production had it rigged
for me from the beginning, which is absolutely athanine. But
whatever that feeling, the feeling of being able to sit
there and and be like, now, there is no question

(28:52):
who is the greatest of all time when it comes
on the challenge, that itself is worth its weight in gold.
As far as my plans for the future, listen, man,
and I said just before, if there was ever a
time to to to kind of to kind of hang
it up, just would be at there. What better way
to go out than to go out on top. You know,
you don't want to be one of those athletes, are

(29:13):
one of those people who who keep playing past their
prime and then they're just this old, pathetic weirdo that
can't perform anymore. Not saying that I can't, but I'm
just saying in that, you know, I've basically at this
point accomplished everything that I've wanted to accomplish. You know,
I feel like from here on out it's just gonna
be um. Adding you know, it's lateral moves is really

(29:33):
all I can make. I don't know how I can
climb any higher than I have. And I'm not ruling
out me coming back, but I'm also not ruling out
me never coming back. You know what I mean. I
feel like, um, this one really did a number on
me from a mental standpoint. You know, the challenges are
not getting any easier, the competition is not getting any
getting any easier. I'm not getting any younger, So you know,

(29:56):
I think there's it's just gonna be um. It's gonna
be a game of just kind of wait and see man,
and see how I see how I feel when you know,
when the opportunity presents itself again, well, here's the thing.
When I first started getting into all this reality TV stuff,
I remember having a conversation with Chris Harrison, who's the
host of of all the Bachelor shows, and he said, hey, man,
what you need to do is you need to figure

(30:16):
out a way to have this show not to find
your life, but to be able to enhance it. And
that's something that I took to heart, and I feel
like I have been able to do that, and I
feel like you definitely have been able to do that.
You've been able to now pivot to hosting this show
that basically if anyone who wants to be a host

(30:36):
basically wants to be Anthony Bordain, right, Like they want
to be able to travel the world and meet cool
people and do cool And somehow you've been able to
hack the system and you've been able to use all
this real world just challenge and you've been able to
use it to enhance your life. And now you're the
host of First Look. Just if people don't know what

(30:58):
this show is, just explain it to them real quick.
It's so dope what you've been able to do. So
I think that that's a really a very very very
valid point. I could not agree more. I think the
challenge has essentially an MTV has enabled, has provided me
with the platform, and it's enabled me for so long

(31:18):
really like fine tune who I am and just put
over the seasons the best version of myself out there,
the best most entertaining version of myself out there. And
I didn't know what it was gonna lead to me
just continuing to go on the challenge and continue, you know,
just being on MTV. But it ray, you know, it
caught the attention of the right people. First look came around.

(31:40):
They basically said, listen, we're looking for a guest host.
Are permanent host? Kind of moved on just based on
what you do, your ability to be a jack of
all trades, master of none, You're great with people, You're
great new experiences, you you're well traveled. So we do
our travel segments where we go around the world. My

(32:00):
first two seasons we went, uh, I mean we went
to Alaska, Scotland, France, South Korea, meet amazing people, sample
amazing food, just do this incredible stuff. But but then
we have what are called the experiential segments, which are
themed shows. And in these segments, the reasons the show
is called first look is because it's giving you a

(32:21):
first look or a glance at jobs, industries, people, hobbies
that you never even knew existed. All right, my first
episode I did. I dressed in dragged and I stripped
in a boy lesque show. Okay, boy lesque is basically
burlesque for men. I joined the l a RAMS cheerleading squad. Okay,

(32:45):
tried to make the squad. Didn't happen. Most people are
shocked at it didn't. I've I was, I've been a
cannabis Somalia. I've been an iguana wrangler. Worked for a
day with a balloon artist who basically makes the most
insane balloon animals you are seene. He made a seven
foot Veloca raptor and around a museum scaring it out
of children. That's what I love doing, man. I love

(33:06):
traveling is awesome, but I love meeting people and I
love just doing new things and experiencing new things. And
there's again, there's this really good quote for that movie
four Versus Ferrari. It always stuck with me, and Matt
Damon says, he goes, if you love your job, you'll
never work a day in your life. And That's how
I feel, man. I feel like I've been able to

(33:26):
parlay the challenge and everything that I've been able to
gain from that, the connections, the persona that I've created,
the experience that that that that I've accumulated, and I've
been able to parlay that now into the next chapter
of my life, which I really do feel like it
is going to um have some legs and that's gonna
be hosting and and traveling and you know, God, you

(33:48):
know God willing be the next Anthony Bourdaine. We're gonna
go watch First Look. First Look is on Saturday nights
after SNL, or you can catch all the episodes you've
done on our YouTube channel, which is um first Look
TV on YouTube. We're gonna be putting new episodes out.
We're still we're still filming episodes now like everyone else.
They're like kind of the zoom at home we've done. Uh. Actually,

(34:11):
this is something that you might want to if if
you'd like to do a box challenge with me. I
know you listen, I need to get my revenge. Well
as you beat me on Worse Cooks, I need to
exact my revenge. The box challenge essentially is a random
package shows up at both of our doors. Okay, and
on camera, we have to open this box and we
have to through whatever task it is in there, and

(34:34):
it could be anything. So I did one with Nessa
and we had we had eggs. We had to make
egg contraptions out of what was in the box and
we had to drop three eggs from eight feet and
whosever eggs didn't break one? I just didn't with Mike
the Misz which is coming out this this uh this Saturday.
You can check it out the next Box Challenge and
uh if you like it, Man, did you get you
set up? Buddy? Yeah, send me a box. Let's do it, man,

(34:56):
I'll finally be able to get my revenge on you
for beating me on Worse cook Man. I also saw
that people can watch it on Peacock, which is a
new streaming service of NBC, which is which is super cool. Yeah.
I didn't want to want to bring up Worse Cooks
because I mean, you're riding this high of being you know,
the greatest challenge champion ever, and I didn't really want
to bring in the fact that like, you know, this
asshole from like this reality TV dating show came and

(35:19):
just kicked your ass. I did like the fact that, like,
you are a good cook. I've been watching your like
Instagram stuff and you're you've got a whole cooking show.
So once again, Johnny Bananas, if you're not cheating, you're
not trying. Listen. I want to take a quick break,
and when we come back, we're gonna race through how
the hell Johnny from Penn State became Johnny Bananas greatest

(35:42):
champion of the Challenge in the history of TV, which
is crazy. The fact that you said I have more
championships than Tom Brady and Michael Jordan blew my mind.
But you know what, you're not lying, dude. So quick
when we come back, we're gonna hear about where hell
Johnny Bananas came from. Stick around all right, back in

(36:15):
the Wells Cast with Johnny Bananas. I want to know
how the hell you got here. It's so funny because
I was a huge fan of like early seasons of
Real World, Like I remember Puck and like Real World
San Francisco and the miss Like we had him on
the Wells Cast not not too long ago. That's another
guy who's been able to take his fifteen minutes of
fame and really stretched out, which is awesome. So how

(36:37):
the hell did you get here? You grew up in California,
but you've got this like New York born and raised, uh,
Southern California cool man. I was the epitome of the
seas Get degrease guy. Okay. I think out of my
graduating high school class, there was a graduating class of
five hundred. I finished two fifty. Okay, So I was

(36:59):
literally dead center, I mean, and it got the point
I was, dude, I was. I've always been. And my
dad's always said this, He goes, You've never been mean,
You've never been mean spirited, you've never been cruel. You've
been mischievous, okay, and you've always enjoyed starting fires and
watching them burn. You know, when I was little, literally

(37:21):
because I was a pyromaniac. But now that I'm an adult,
it's like, I just love teasing people, and I just
love getting a rise out of people. I love finding
people's buttons and pushing them and watching the reaction. And
my dad always says that, he goes, You've taken this
mischievous nature and you somehow parlayed it into a career
and and I mean, that's how I've always been. I was.
I was always the class clown. I was always the

(37:43):
kid that like i've in class. It was like I
was more interested in the social aspect of school than
I was about learning. Dude, if you saw my progress
report from when I was from when I was a kid,
it was like, doesn't use time wisely, can't keep his
hands to himself, constantly late, constantly talking, He's a disruption.
My mom is amazing. I'm even the most supportive human

(38:04):
being on planet Earth. My parents are again diametrically opposed.
My mom's free spirit, you know, no rules, just you know,
do whatever you want. My dad is you know, Italian
Catholic military, so everything's very rigid. So you know, I
kind of had these two different structures growing up, or

(38:25):
lack there of, you know, in some ways. Um so
I basically after high school didn't really I was kind
of wayward man. I didn't really have a direction. I
didn't know what I wanted to do. I'm just gonna
go to the community college in town. My dad was
sick Fort Totten, it's in Queens and he lived in
this you know, massive four bedroom officers house in Garden City,
New York. And he's like, listen, Nasaw Community College. Good

(38:49):
grades at NASAU, you can essentially transfer to anywhere you want. Uh.
It just so happens that the officers quarters were basically,
like practically on Nassau campus. So he's like, come live
with me, get out of the nest. You're not that productive.
You get away for a little bit, and all of
a sudden, your your your juices start to flow. Moving
to New York, if I could pinpoint one point in
my life where my life really did take a turn

(39:12):
for the better going to New York, forcing myself out
of my comfort zone. I had to meet new people.
I had to reinvent myself. I had to you know.
I went to I started going to community college. I
actually started caring about my grades. I was really motivated
to to to to transfer, and I did. I transferred,
actually rewinded a tiny bit. The nickname Johnny Banas actually
came from my time in Long Island. My best friend

(39:35):
to this day, John Healey. We met at the Roosevelt
Field Mall and he worked at Kenneth Cole and I
worked at Banana Republic. And because we were both John,
our circle of friends came up with the nickname Johnny
Bananas to tell the two of us apart. Because I
worked up in Ana Republic, So a lot of people
don't know that my cousin, Vince has been on the
challenge with me. He was on bloodlines and rivals. He
got a full ride scholarship to Penn State for football

(39:57):
um he was just an absolutely incredible quarterback in Ohio.
So I was trying to find out where I wanted
the transfer to Penn State's campus. I sent in an
application and I ended up going there. Economics was the
only major that was available for me. If you asked
me right now, tell me one thing you learned from
from your time and econ, I don't even think I
can tell you anything. G D P Mac mac micro,

(40:20):
I don't even know. And then it was it was
at Penn State. So so by my third semester at
Penn State, I was back in the same boat that
I was at after high school. I was like, I
don't know what I want to do. I don't know
where I want to go. I don't know what I
want to do for a living my senior year. It's
January of my senior year of college, and I have
no plan. I don't have an internship lined up. I'm like, yeah,

(40:41):
maybe I'll go into investment banking. Maybe I'll be a
pharmaceutical salesman. Maybe i'll be a stay at home son.
I don't know. There was this girl that I had
a crush on in college. Your name was Amy, And
every time I want to hang out with this girl,
she couldn't because she's watching the World World. I'm like,
I didn't grow up watching the World. So she invited
me over her apartment and her and her buddies were
all sitting around watching the World and I watched it

(41:01):
ruled the season in Philadelphia, and I'm watching Landed and
MJ who were both partying, hooking up and being the generates.
And I'm like, that's me to a t I could
do this. And I ended up sending in an applicating
a videotaped myself on campus dressed in a Scooby Doo

(41:21):
costume catching a Frisbee. I sent in that audition tape.
About a week later, I get a Manila envelope in
the mail. It was like a it's like a psychological profile.
Was an application? Filled that out. Two weeks later, I
had my first interview. Two weeks after that, I had
my second interview. About a month after that, they flew
me to l A to do my final interview, and

(41:43):
then uh in August, graduating college, I was on the
Real World in Key West. So that was kind of
like how I got into reality television, the abridged version.
Do you have the video of you dressed up as
Scooby Doo catching a frisbee on Penn State campus? Still,
I'm sure I could get it. They've showed clips of
my casting special. So ridiculous, dude, so ridiculous, the funniest thing.

(42:06):
And I always say this, and and as much as
I know this isn't true, I like to joke that
it is. So I did my audition tape dresses Scooby
Doo in front of this very iconic building on Penn
State's campus called Old Maine. It like a bell tower,
very old school. Fast forward about four years, President Obama
goes to Penn State to do a speech. Guess what
backdrop he picked to do his big economic speech Old Maine.

(42:32):
So buddy, President Obama must have been a Johnny Bananas
fan and he saw my backdrop and he's like, that's
a good I'm gonna I'm gonna use that when I
go to Penn State. So yeah, dude, I went to
I was in q West, Florida. Two thousand and five
was my was my season of the Real World. It
was the worst hurricane season on record. Hurricane Rita, Hurricane Wilma,

(42:53):
Hurricane Katrina. We got whacked by all three of them.
So our entire season was basically us survived hurricanes, which
was just wild. And it's funny because and I just
think it's so funny that it was like my first
year of reality television, the worst hurricane season Florida has
ever had. I think that. I don't know, maybe it

(43:13):
was just because that was how that was how I
was born, dude. It was like, you know, Superman is
of the Sun, Johnny Banan is just born of hurricanes,
and I've been a hurricane ever since. My friend. You
had to you had to withstand some bullet in the beginning,
and now look at that. You do that first season
of the Real World. How long until then you go

(43:35):
in to start doing the challenges. So we filmed for
four months. The our season of the Woral World was
was August to like August uh September until about December,
I think November December, we were done. And and one
of the reasons I even wanted to do the Challenge
the Real World was to do the Challenge right when
I really got into watching the Real World my senior

(43:56):
year of college. I then obviously got into watching the Challenges,
and this is like when like I mean the big dogs, man,
like the old school dudes were all still there. It
was like Mark Long, Durrell, the MSS, Abram, Derek ct
Brad absolute legends, okay, And I remember watching them and

(44:16):
being like, that's what I want to do. Real World's
cool and all, but the Challenge is what I want
to do. And the miss was actually a huge inspiration
of mine, like from the beginning, like I watched him
and I'm just like the fact that he did the
Challenge classic belt that he brought on his Real World
season and he then he was the champ. He's been

(44:38):
the w w E champion, he holds multiple belts, so
he was always kind of like in a way like
that's that was like who I wanted to follow in
their footsteps, dude, and be able to again parlay Reality
TV into something greater. But my first season of the
Challenge was two thousand and six, So I got off

(44:59):
the Real World and like the December and my first
season was that spring of the Challenge. It was in
like probably April May. And what's funny is the rap
party for my Real World seasons the first time we
all got to talk to producers and stuff. The fourth
wall was broken down, and I remember talking one of
the producers name is Mark Saliga, and I remember telling Mark,
I'm like, Mark, I really want to do the Challenge.

(45:19):
What do you think do you think I'll get a shot?
He goes, yeah, you'll probably call it. You'll probably get
a chance to do it. And then fast forward, you know,
fifteen years, twenty seasons later, and I, you know, have
have have accomplished more on the Challenge than anyone else
ever hasn't most likely ever will. But yeah, my first
season of the Real World I was the first I
mean of the Challenge. My first season was the duel.

(45:40):
I was the first one eliminated. I was there for
less than a week. Dude, unpack my bag and I
was like, oh, this is it. Like I'll never be
invited back. This was terrible. Um, but you know, some
a lot of people say I mean, it's not what
you do when I feel like when you win, it's
it's how it's how you deal with adversity. And I
really do think that that first lost me. Losing dude.

(46:04):
When you used to get off the real world, you
were about as close to an A list celebrity as possible, Dude,
Like back in the day it was like Us Survivor
and like Big Brother, We're like the only reality television
shows that existed. So when you get off the real world,
I mean, dude, your notoriety was through the roof. We
were on TV for six months. I was booked solid

(46:27):
bar and club appearances I was doing. I was doing
a hundred bar appearances a year, twenty a month. I'm
going on the rule. I'm going on the first challenge
thinking that, like, dude, I'm the man my ship. Don't
think like I am basically like you know, a god.
Going from that two then getting schooled and really getting

(46:47):
put in place. You want to talk about humble pie.
I went on there thinking that like I had the
world by the balls. I left with my ball shriveled
up essentially, dude, I'm like it was. It was the
biggest gut check ever But I think that's what really
help me to, I guess, respect the game and to
take it seriously was knowing that it wasn't easy. And
if you're not playing the game, the game is playing you.

(47:09):
Like they say in Poker Man, a lot of people
can't remember like their big scores, but you remember your
losses and your defeats with like stunning detail, and those
are would have the biggest you know effect. Last question
about all this stuff, is there anyone out there right
now in the challenge game that you think could be
the next Johnny Bananas? Now, if you're talking about straight

(47:30):
just strictly like a numbers game, will somebody win as
much money as you will, Somebody have as many wins
as you will, somebody do as many seasons as you.
I think the amount of seasons that's probably gonna, especially
if I, you know, hang them up, that will probably
be surpassed relatively soon. Money one, I mean, you know again,

(47:51):
potentially uh seasons one. That's gonna be a really tough, tough,
tough one for anyone to to to overcome. But just
when you're talking about the intangibles, the things that I
bring that I have brought to the show, you know,
like they say, often imitated, never duplicated. I feel like
what I've contributed to the show, what I've contributed to

(48:13):
reality television, that the character that that that I've created,
the persona that I've created, the niche that I've created,
the brand that I've created. I don't think anyone will
will ever replicate that, nor should they. I think everyone
needs to find their own lane. And I think that's
what's great about a lot of the guys that are
still on the show now, the ct S, from the
old school guys, the CTS, the west Is myself is

(48:36):
we are all huge names, huge characters on the show,
but we're all completely different people. Again. I mean I
I think that's what's made this show, you know, so
so entertaining for so long, why it's been so successful,
is You've taken these characters that fans have been able
to grow up with essentially watch them over the years,

(48:58):
grow up with them, watch sim change. I'm like Dude
the movie The Truman Show. I feel like I'm like
a real life version of Jim Carey from The Truman Show.
I've literally grown up on reality television. I started doing
reality to you when I was twenty three years old.
I'm thirty eight. I've got to grow up, make all
my mistakes, make all the all the positive things I've done,
all the horrible things that I've done, all the growing

(49:21):
pains that I've had, They've all been done in the
public eye. And I think that's, you know, in large part,
why I am who I am today. I've been able
to see myself from a perspective that most people never
get to see themselves from. You know that third that
that that perspective that other people and it's like, you
know it, it's probably the same with you. You You see
yourself on TV and you're like, holy it, is that
what I look like? Is that? What I sound like?

(49:41):
Is that how I act? Some things are good, some
things are bad. You can take the things that you
like and keep them and throw away the things you
don't like. Yeah, No, I mean to go back to
your original question. I don't think um, you know again,
I don't think that there ever will be anyone uh
that you know, makes the the the impact um on
the challenge that I have bro fifteen years man, twenty seasons.

(50:03):
That is a long long long time to be doing
the same thing. So yeah, I just don't think that, uh,
anyone else is gonna have you know, the wherewithal or
the ability to kind of um, you know, do it
as long as I and do it as long and
as hard and as you know well as I have.
That's what he said. Uh yeah, your legacy is is

(50:24):
your legacy is ridiculous. To close out, I wanted to
do some rapid fire questions with Johnny Banana as you ready,
ye alright, rapid fire questions with the man, the myth,
the legend, Johnny b Are you early Birder and I
know early bird favorite pizza topping? Uh Pepperoni. Who was
your first kiss? Her name was Adrian. What was your

(50:44):
first job? First job? I worked at a comic bookstore.
I wouldn't really call it a job. I didn't really
get paid, but that was like the first place comic
Mania and Fuller two. Dude, I'll never forget it. It
was the first concert you went to, uh blink anything
back in high school. Who would you call it against jail?
My dad one million percent. My dad's like the you know,

(51:06):
if you know the movie Pulp Fiction, you know the
wolf Harvey Keitel, that's my dad. My dad is the Wolf.
It's like, if you ever need anything, It's like, if
if I murdered someone, I'd be like Dad and helped
me hide this body. He'd be like, I got this son.
Who's the most famous person in your phone? Jimmy Fallon,
Oh that is a good one. If you want an oscar,

(51:27):
who would be the first person you thinked in your speech? Parents? Ma'
mo mom and Dad? Absolutely? And lastly, what has been
your most humiliating defeat on reality television? Well? Well, wells uh,
it would have to be this defeat to this Bachelor
bartender by the name of Wells Adams. You might know

(51:49):
him from The Bachelor and Parent. My most humiliating defeat
was definitely at the hands of that guy on Worst
Cooks in America. Still, I don't know how your goddamn
tortolini beat out my lobster club sandwich. Wells, I had
to murder three lobsters, dude, in cold blood? All right,

(52:13):
I will. And I remember when I watched the show.
You're like, You're like, Banana has made a sandwich. No, no, no, no.
That was the most complicated sandwich the world has ever known.
Dud Dude, the guy fiery cry, what was really interesting.
Is it shows you the difference between Bachelor fans and
Challenge fans because Bachelor fans were so are so nice

(52:35):
and courteous, and then the Challenge fans were like, wells
is a fraud. He should never win. Go back to
wherever the hell he came from. This guy, And I
was like, Jesus Christ is a cooking show? Are no dude, bro,
They're sad. Dude, they are savage, man, That's what I said.
I mean, it's like, listen, dude, there's there's a lot.

(52:57):
I mean, there's people who have been uh from you know,
the bad fler uh survivor Big Brother. They think they
know what rabid fans are until they deal with Challenge fans.
They are dude, they are They're rough, bro, they are brutal. Man.
I will say the wells I respect. Going back to

(53:18):
what your your baseball or your ball coach said, the
best athletes, alright, the best performers are the ones that
perform when the pressure is the greatest and when the
lights are the brightest. And I will say that when
we did our demo Cooks with the chefs and we
had to do I'm watching him like, this guy is
gonna get the bed he can't make. He like he's
packing everything up before going to that final Dude, you

(53:40):
were faced down on the couch. I literally took a
picture of that and I'm like, I think I sent
it to Morgan and I'm like, yeah, Wells has no shot.
This is his this is how he gets prepped. And then, dude,
you showed up that morning man and bro, I gotta
hand it to you. Dude. You had like one of
those Will Farrell old school out of body moments. Dude,
just skin black that you just blanked out. You just

(54:01):
did it. You just went to work. I'm sitting there watching,
I'm like, this guy hasn't stuff once. I'm like, and
you forced me to. You actually pressed me to to
to to work harder and to and to because I'm like, like,
you really you showed up that day, dude, and it
made me you know, you stepped it up, dude, And
I gotta say, that's that's uh that that that's again,
that's I think the sign of like a true competitor, dude,

(54:23):
to somebody that that is able. Anyone can perform when
there's no pressure. It's performing under pressure that that makes
it count and you did, man, and uh, I gotta
hand it to you do those some beautiful dishes you
put out there. Well, I'll tell you what, man, it was.
It was fun to do that show. But more importantly,
and like I mean, it was cool like win money
for a charity and everything. But I really had like
a cool time and a wonderful time getting to hang

(54:45):
out with you and and uh, you know, and and
making a new friend and especially in the crazy kind
of entertainment world. So I I did have a lot
of fun. Man, fun to watch you on TV. Where
do people go to find you? On social media? Real
Johnny Bananas. Is that what it is? Yep? On the
social meds, Yeah, Instagram, Real Johnny Bananas, Twitter, Johnny Bananas. Yeah.

(55:09):
And then I have a YouTube channel as well. You
mentioned that the cooking, So yeah, I have a cooking show.
It's called Cooking and Quarantine. It's on YouTube. Real Johnny Banas,
I mean Johnny Banas. But I actually just took all
of Tyler's recipes and I just remade them. But I
had a great time doing I've done them all. Dude.
We homemade ravioli, that custard, the salmon, Dude, I lit

(55:31):
my kitchen on fire with trying to make vodka sauce.
Like it's it's been. It's been quite the experience that
I've had. I've had a lot of fun doing that.
So maybe when quarantine is over things things lighten up.
We can get back, get back in the kitchen, man
and do another another little cooking demo or something. By
the way, not to toot our horns, but apparently our
final on Worst Cooks is the highest rated Worst Cooks

(55:55):
finale they've ever had. They said, they said it was uh,
I think fifteen or twenty person sent from from the
from the prior season, So I guess people really like
the Bonachelor showdown in the end. Dude. That's right. It
was good, man, it was. It was good, dude. I
gotta say it, especially from off you were watching that.
I'm like, dude, this is we did well. Yeah, it was.

(56:16):
They edit it well too. It was fun to watch.
It was so funny, dude. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, So good
to catch up and please, um let's hang out when
this you know, when the world isn't ending, And I
mean it's gonna say it because you were talking about
it earlier. You were saying like it would be like
more crazy if like if Donald Trump and Joe Biden,
you know, like rent for president together, I'm gonna throw

(56:38):
it out there, Johnny Bananas and West for president and
vice president. I'd vote for it right now. So we'd
have to keep him, you know, his face hidden because
he'd tear away. He terrified voters. But um, absolutely, man,
Banana's West. Yeah, let's do it. West would be like
make America ugly again. That would be his slogan. Would
be great, all right, but do you mission? Um tell

(57:01):
tell more than I say hello and uh and be
safe out there. Man. Likewise tell Sarah I said hello
as well. Yeah, definitely, man, Thanks for thanks for the pod.
Looking forward to it, bro see Bud. Subscribe to Wells
cast on I Heart Radio, Apple podcasts, or anywhere you
get your podcasts. It's the Internet.