Hobson's Choice: Mike Potts

In the latest Hobson's Choice Podcast, Bengals.com Senior Writer Geoff Hobson sits down with Mike Potts, the Bengals' Director of College Scouting, to recap the 2019 NFL Draft.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to a post draft edition of Hobson's Choice Podcast.
They're very happy to have the Bengals. One of the
Bengals whiz kids in the scouting department, the director of
college Scouting, Mike Potts. Pots, thanks very much for joining
us after a very busy month here down at the stadium.
Thanks for having me, Jeff. First of all, POTSI you

(00:22):
got to explain this William and Mary thing going on here.
I you're a you're a former quarterback at William and Mary,
and I looked out in the field during the Veterans
Voluntary and I saw our corner from William and Mary.
I saw two defensive coaches from William and Mary, and
I saw a scouting director from William and Mary. That's
a that's quite a representation. Yeah, I guess there's something

(00:44):
in the water down there in Williamsburg, Virginia. There's there's
a lot of a lot of William and Mary Alams
around the league. Were guys that have coached at William
and Mary. I think we've got for sure two head
coaches in Tomlin and McDermott that went to William and
MARYA played there, and then also Dan Queen in Atlanta,
had his first job coaching there as well, So there's

(01:05):
a few more coaching and scouting types than there are players.
But we've got our fast share of players in the
league too, So it's a good program and they've got
running down there. Sure do you actually you came from
Atlanta and joined us a couple of years ago, and
uh added the coach you scout the Southeast. You've added

(01:26):
added the title of the director of college scouting. Weren't
if he kind of runs through Maybe how do you
guys divide this thing up with of course Duke Tolben
being the director of player Personnel and you know, kind
of director and everything. Yeah, Duke ends it up and
oversees it, and then he's got me overseeing the college
side of our scouting efforts, and then Steve rodisovic is
on the pro side. But here we we do both

(01:49):
sides of scouting. We do program college with the Bengals,
and it gives us a really good knowledge of not
only what's coming out in the draft and but also
what's what's playing in the league currently. But the way
we split it up college wise is, like you said,
I'm primarily down in the Southeast. The sec ACC type
of schools we've got moving up the coast. We've got

(02:11):
Andrew Johnson is primarily up in the northeast. Bill Tobin
is in the Midwest, and then we have Christian Sarkesian
is in the central slash Southwest area essentially Oklahoma to
the Dakotas. And then Steve Ordsavikon mentioned in addition to
his pro scouting responsibilities, he covers the west coast for

(02:32):
us on the college side. Something you guys have been
touring the ground floor this, I think though the last
couple of years, something that's really shrunk the country for you.
It's the tremendous amount of dad that you guys get
with Jeff Smith as a consultant. Jake Kaiser's moved in
to take over the technology, you know, the IT department,

(02:53):
and I think he and Tyler Gross really kind of
the last year. Have you even built ark what Jeff
did as far's giving you guys information to turn away with. Yeah,
they've done a great job of really organizing everything, running
any reports that we may need, and they're they're constantly
upgrading our our football system that we use to type

(03:13):
our reports in both for the scouts in the coaches.
So it's been great and now I think they're they're
looking forward to some more improvements here in the future,
you know, possibly unveiling a new scouting system here in
the next couple months that we can can use heading
into into Turning Camp and when we start to hit
the road as scouts in August. Because it seems like
you've got everything at your fingertips. I mean you can

(03:35):
get to you can get on your website there and
you can hit a couple of buttons and suddenly you're
you're you're looking at clips of say John Williams, Uh,
you know a certain opponent, certain date. Yeah. Absolutely, we
can search certain things in our video system. Travis Brammer
and his staff do a great job with that. And then,
like I said, our scouting system that we use for

(03:57):
our reports, everything's right there, our defender tips, any any measurable,
any stat any type of background information, medical information, as
well as our evaluations as scouts on those players or
like you said, right there at our fingertips. So it's
a very efficient process. I know a lot of a
lot of teams employ many more scouts than we do,

(04:17):
but I think with the with the staff that we have.
We we work very efficiently and we're really excited about
the draft that we had this year and the outcome.
I think that's been proven in the last decade. Really, Uh,
I don't think anybody's been complaining about a lack of
pound around here. I think, how did you guys view
this thing? I know, coming into it, it it was like
I think, you guys started as a draft with not

(04:40):
a lot of elite players, but you can help yourselves
with a lot of good ones. Yeah, there was a
lot of good players in this draft. I'm not one
hundred percent sure how it was viewed in the media,
but I know I know behind these walls here at
Paul Brown Stadium, we there were a lot of really
good players, especially like you said, you know, maybe maybe

(05:01):
deathwise once you get into those middle rounds that we
really had targeted, and we had a lot of picks luckily,
so we had the ammo to go and get guys
that we really had targeted and those especially this year,
it ended up just the way it worked out in
the in the fourth round range. But we're really happy
with with what we came away with. I'm gonna have
to start reworking the you know, I've been usually I

(05:24):
write that, no way these guys are going to trade up.
They've traded uh, you know, going into this trap, I said,
they've traded up four times in fifty years. Then Booming
traded up twice, not only in the same rap but
in the same round. So but that looked like to
be a product of Uh, you had the ammunition, you know,
he had those six six he had five I think

(05:44):
six round picks going into the day. I mean that's
basically what it came down, right, If you had the capital,
you were gonna use absolutely. Yeah. So so the way
it works on draft day, all that work's already been
done in our fall scouting, Spring scouting, and then our
meetings in April leading up to the draft. So we've
already got our board set, you know, all of that

(06:06):
is already ranked and in order. But it's just a
matter of getting the guys that we have targeted specifically
at each position. But in the draft room, Duke has
the main trade line as far as the phone line
reaching out to other teams, and then myself and Steve
are also working two alternate lines as far as trade

(06:27):
phones go, and then also calling and texting guys around
the league that we that we know on our cell
phones as well. So there's always there's always talks probably
to trade up or back on almost every pick. And
like you said, at one point, I think we had
a total of including the first three picks that we had,
we had ten on day three going into it, so

(06:48):
you're talking thirteen picks, so and then a lot of
it also happens leading up to those picks, or say, hey,
if our guys there, would you guys be open to
moving back? Would you guys be open to moving up?
So I said, Duke does a great job with that.
And when when we were on the clock at those
those times, that just happened to be the right opportunity
for us to move up and get the guy that

(07:09):
we wanted. Yeah, it look like, you know, like you said,
there's a lot of different things going on, Duke is
trying to coordinate it and uh, not only trading up,
but maybe fading back to you know, looking at and
I think that was something going in going into the draft.
He thought, you know, if we're going to get some
extra picks, maybe you know in the fourth round, looks
it looks pretty meat there. He came out of it

(07:32):
with three picks. Let's but let's start at the top,
like the big fellow out of alab Airma. It seemed
like at some point, I know, you guys were in
love with Devil Bush, who isn't hell of a player.
But I think at some point you guys are kind
of looking at size and maybe how we could help
you in a preview spot. Yeah, I mean, there were
a lot of players that we really liked at the

(07:54):
top of the draft. At the end of the day,
we were picking at number eleven, so we have to
stack our top eleven players. And we're also mindful of, Okay,
if we take a guy at this position, how does
the draft followed other positions in the second, third, fourth round.
So that's a factor that we had to consider, and
we ended up we ended up stacking those top guys.

(08:15):
Jonah was one of our top targets and uh, you know,
we were we were really happy that he was on
the board at eleven. I went into Alabama twice this
year to scout him, you know, get all the background information.
As scouts, we do a we we tried to develop
relationships at these schools with coaches and support staff members,

(08:36):
so you feel like you're you're getting accurate information from
people that you trust and guys that I trust down
there at Alabama really painted a picture of a guy
who was almost handling himself as a professional already playing
playing in the SEC. So, you know, once we interviewed
Jonah at the combine and the process went forward, that
came to be true as we got to know him

(08:57):
personally and then to take my stuff. Obviously, obviously that's
the most important part of it is is can you
go out there in block NFL defensive linemen. But we
we thought that that really lined up nicely for us
the way the top ten ended up falling into place,
and Jonah was a guy we were really happy to
end up with. Yeah, I don't think anybody thought he'd

(09:18):
be there. I mean, I mean, I mean, even as
weak as ride Mark drafts were, I don't think I
ever had me in there. And so that was but
I guess that that would happen. I guess when the
quarterback goes and and two quarterbacks go, you know, and
so I think that that in the quarterback, two quarterbacks,
two rinebackers set it up pretty good for you because

(09:40):
I think you felt like you could probably get a
linebacker in the third round. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely yeah. We
we kind of had that that third round earmarked as
there were some linebackers specifically as well as other positions,
but there were definitely some linebackers that we really had
to arge do that we really felt good about in
that third round range. I think anytime you give a

(10:01):
guy a top three round grade, you regard that guy
as starting caliber talent, and we thought there were starting
caliber talents that we thought would be available there in
the in the third round. Like you said, you know, everybody,
it's hard to predict. Just as it is with the
top ten, it's hard to predict throughout the remainder of
the draft as well. But another thing that we have
to do with scouts is try to determine league value
on guys. You can. You can look at the media

(10:23):
rankings or mock drafts, and a lot of people do
great jobs with those, but when you when you have
guys in the league that are actually making those picks
that you trust, that you know, there's there's some give
and take there um in those conversations, But when you
when you feel like you have a good opinion of
where the league feels about certain guys. Then you then

(10:44):
you can go from there and attack and address those
positions in certain rounds. You were at FAM a twice
I would imagine once was for the pro taed and
or three times including the PROTA. I was there in
August for training camp. I went back in November in
the fall for for fall scouting visits, and then I
was back in March at the product. What was the
outstanding thing about Williams that you know that they've told

(11:08):
you that you saw or that what was what was
maybe one or two of his traits that really stood out?
I think his intelligence, his instincts as as a player,
and his toughness were the were the main things that
stood out. I mean, this is a guy that's that
started since he stepped on campus at Alabama arguably the
best program in the country along with Clemson and a

(11:29):
few other places obviously, Um, but the way that he played,
the versatility that he showed starting at right tackle as
a true freshman at Alabama and then really shutting down
some premier edge rushers in the SEC at left tackle
the past two years. UM. I mean, he's he's I

(11:51):
don't want to say a no brainer, because you can
poke holes and all of these guys, but he's a
guy that you you sleep easy at night when you
when you pull his name off of On draft day,
it seems like every second round, every draft, everybody tries
to trade up there. I remember the twenty ten they
tried like hell to get up to get a a
USC safety named Taylor Mays and didn't happen, probably thank

(12:17):
the Lord, because they ended up with Maze later in
a trade, and because they didn't make that trade, they
also got Carlos stuntlap in Geno Atkins Carlos later in
the second round and Gino with a fourth round pick.
They would have dealt as all right there to get up. Yeah. So,
and of course, so I think this is the third
straight draft you trade it down in the second round.
But I think every draft you try to trade up,

(12:38):
but you don't want to. That seemed to be a
key thing was, look, we know the fourth round is meaty.
Let's not give up a fourth round pick to get
up and get something that you know, maybe you only
get one player instead of two or something. Absolutely, yeah,
you know, And those are the conversations I go on.
It's you know, do we do we get maybe one
more former player, but sacrifice addressing two to three other positions,

(13:05):
or do we let our board play out and address
multiple spots. I think I think we did a good
job of balancing the two of those one draft day. Yeah,
that was because you ended up when you moved up. Well,
let's get to that later. We'll get to the fifty
roop of that. But I want to get the sample.
The second round picked the tighter from Washington, probably the most,

(13:25):
but I don't want to say controversial. I mean, but
you know, probably the one that got talked about because
oh they took a tight end so high. You know
there were and there were other players when you trade
it down there were you know, they were corners, there
were there were pass rushers there, and you went with
I don't think tight end is perceived obviously it's an
elite position. But I think you just just tell us
what the think it was on White. Sample was such

(13:46):
a good get at two. Yes, Sample wasn't a controversial
pick at all. In in our draft room. We had
conviction on him um back since the fall from our
scouting staff, and then when the coaches got in on
the process here in the spring, they loved them just
as much, if not more than our scouting staff did.

(14:07):
I went out to Washington absolutely loved his makeup and
loved his tape just as much. I think there's there's
maybe a misconception on him when you look at the
just the production on paper from a statistics standpoint as
far as catching passes, that he is only a blocking
tight end. But this is a well rounded player that's

(14:28):
really a good athlete in the pass game, running routes.
He had maybe maybe one drop or maybe not even
any on the on the season, so really good hands,
really good sized guy. He just thought he was a
well balanced tight end that that can help us in
the pass game and the run game. So we were
we were excited to get him where we got him.

(14:50):
He was playing in an offense at Washington where they
employed four different tight ends. It was really based on
the run game there and then they would take some
deep shots play action wise. So he may not have
the production that you see on paper from some of
these guys that are essentially just big slot receivers and
athletic freaks. You know, some of the guys that were

(15:11):
other tight ends in this draft that really really you know,
they may give you a couple big plays here and
there as receivers. But we feel like with Drew, this
is a guy who obviously he's going to come have
to come in and earn it through competition in camp.
But if you look at his skill set and you
projected to the NFL, he's not a guy who conceivably

(15:31):
has to come off the field. If you wanted him
to play one hundred percent of the snaps, he could
do that in the game because he doesn't. He doesn't
have any glaring deficiencies in his skill set or or
as makeup run intelligence from a character standpoint, whereas some
of these other guys there's glaring holes in their game,
whether it's as a blocker, whether it's with their hands,
whether it's as a route runner, or whatever it may be.

(15:53):
So that's a long way of saying we were we
were very excited to walk away with a sample. Seemed
like that was a good example of you guys working
hand in hand with the coaching staff because clearly they've
got a vision. I thought they can use this guy.
How we fixing what Zach wants to do. And I
guess maybe that's a good point as any to good
supplies any to talk about what you know, Zack's visually,

(16:18):
no offensively and how I played him in a draft
that was clearly pad of this deal and a new
you know, a new a new coaching staff. You guys
had to adjust to that. Yeah, the new coaching staff
has been great, and Zach and his coordinators and position
coaches have been phenomenal um with integrating their system with

(16:39):
our with our scouts and really giving us a clear
picture of what they're looking for at each position. Um
and also from from a character and makeup standpoint. And
Drew is a guy that that really fit us, not
only schematically, but also from a makeup standpoint as a person.
So again, it was a guy who ever body was

(17:00):
on board with. And uh, and I know we've had
some some durability issues at that position, not only us
and multiple guys at that position. It's it's like that
across the league. That's that's historically been a position that
that guys tend to get banged up at. So we're
happy to add another big, strong, tough, athletic, dependable guy

(17:22):
at that position and to be able to move back
ten spots and pick up a fourth and a sixth
rounder where we ended up I believe, getting Renell Ren
with that fourth round pick, and then we used the
sixth round pick I believe to move up and get
another player that we targeted. We thought that was we
thought that was the best the best choice for the Bengals.
But um, did when when you sat down with Zach

(17:44):
and the coaches, did they give you a vision? Because
it clearly they they they're making a commitment to running
the ball. I haven't seen that kind of commitment to
running the ball around here uh lately? Um, is that
a was that something that they gave a message at
early on in the scouting process. Look, we want to
get that you know, we want to run the ball,
we want to be physical. We're looking for this kind
of guy. Yeah, they they've said that for sure. Like

(18:08):
I said, Um, you know, they've gave us a clear
picture of what we want from a physicality standpoint. Staple
was that kind of exactly how everything's based off of
the run. And I know that makes you happy, Hope,
because we've had many discussions about about running the football
and uh and I almost jumped out of the building

(18:29):
when he took Jordan in the in the bottom of
the four that was not written too far away from
from from pounding the football. So, uh, yeah, those discussions,
I mean we've had, we've had, you know, hundreds and
hundreds of discussions with this new staff. Um, you know,
since since they've they've gotten here back in February, and

(18:50):
I really feel good about where we are as far
as being on the same page between our personal staff
and our Cushing staff. Right now, what were you doing
in Washington, by the way, to see sample? I thought
I thought you were Southeast guy. I went out to Washington. Um,
I'm primarily in the southeast, but I bounced around the
country a little bit. I made a west coast swim
where I was out at Washington, Washington State, and Oregon

(19:12):
as well. We knew those three schools had had some
really really talented prospects. Obviously, the Washington State tackle was
a first round pick and Washington had a bunch of
draft picks, uh coming out of there. So in Oregon
always puts out good players. So I bounced out there,
and uh and it was a good trip, and it
was it was very productive being out there, and there

(19:36):
was some other even being primarily in the southeast, you
you know, it's it's a small world, and you've got
some connections out there that maybe you didn't initially think
that you did going out there. So there were some
guys that I already had a trusting relationship with that
that I felt gave me really good information on those guys. So, um,
it was a it was a productive trip. Let you

(19:56):
guys cross check. I guess that's all part of the Yeah.
So that so the way it works is is everybody's
responsible for their certain schools, and then it's part of
my job to not only not only get the background
and grade the guy when I go into school as
the primary scout, um, but guys that have certain a

(20:17):
certain grade or hire, we want to get multiple looks
on those guys. So in this example, I came back,
you know, loved a lot of guys from Washington, but
Sample was one in particular that I called Bill Tobin
the next week and say, hey, get a look at
this this tight end from Washington. Um, so I added
that to his his list across checks on top of

(20:38):
his his schools that he's responsible for in the Midwest.
And um, you know, I don't I don't want to
speak for him, but he loved Sample as well. So
that's three guys looking at him, Steve Yeah, yourself and
Bill Yeah, James Casey's looking him, mccallahan and Greg Zach
right right. And I don't I don't think you would, uh,

(20:59):
out of those six guys that you just mentioned, I
don't think you would hear too many negative clients about
Drew Sample. I think we had unanimity and a lot
of conviction about Drew Sample. And then in the third round,
I pick I really like is uh Is Pratt, the
Jermaine Pratt, the linebacker round in North Carolina State. And
this in this in a draft defined by you know,

(21:19):
the Devons running the four four twos, four four threes,
here you got a guy that's quietly, uh, you know,
quietly two hundred and forty pounds and running a four
to five to seven, not exactly hops and usk out there.
This guy can move. This guy could move, he's big,
he's it looked like he's a guy you felt you
could get him the third. That's just one of the reasons,

(21:40):
you know, you'd go with Williams in the first and
get a guy like this in the third. Yeah. Absolutely,
we were really excited that Jermaine was still there. I
believe it was picked seventy two there in the third round,
and we knew we were going to be right up
against it whether he would go right in that range,
maybe a few picks before that, but we were we
were very very happy when he was still on the board.

(22:02):
He talked about a guy, like you said, with that size,
that speed, the level of physicality and urgency that he
plays with, as well as being an instinctive player. We
were we were just really happy that that he was
on the board. He's he plays in a similar style
to a lot of linebackers that are having a ton
of success in the league these days. The way the

(22:23):
way defenses are set up to attack these offenses, I
think really plays into Jermaine's strengths. And uh, you know
that it's it's It wasn't a consideration for trade him
back from that pick once once he was on the
on the board, when we were when we were on
the clock at seventy two, it was an easy selection

(22:44):
for us. Clearly, you guys, his teammate, the quarterback Ryan Finley,
uh in North Carolina State. Clearly the coaches had felt
like you guys had felt like, well, he's if we're
going to take a guy. He's the guy because he's
the only guy who brought him for so uh and
and you went, you traded up again, but you didn't

(23:06):
give up a hell of a lot. I mean, he
gave up two six. I mean that's pretty good. That's
a pretty economical move. Why when when did you guys
start thinking about you know, Finley? And when you think
about and I did that thing coming together? Was it
a been in mootion for a month, a day, a week. Yeah, Um,
to be honest with you, he was one of the
targets from the beginning, but I wouldn't say he was

(23:27):
the only target. You know, we understand that these visits
get reported. Everything gets reported nowadays. Um, so a lot
of people knew we brought Finley in. We also didn't
bring Jonah Williams in for a visit. We didn't bring
Sample in for a visit. So that was that was
a situation where you know, we didn't want to show
our hands with our our our show our hands, sorry,

(23:49):
with our interest in those two guys Sample, Um, excuse me, Finley.
We we wanted to bring in to have him spend
some more time with our coaches and really go through
some tape and we knew how we felt about him
from a scouting perspective, We were really high on him
as a player, but I think we wanted to just

(24:12):
bring him in to get get some more comfortability with
our coaches and have them have a clear vision of
how Ryan would fit in our scheme offensively. So a
lot of the times, I think people read too far
into those those visits. It's just an instance where maybe
you had a couple more questions on a guy that

(24:32):
you wanted to have answered, and you know, a lot
of the times it ends up just because you brought
a guy in doesn't mean you're interested in him. A
lot of times you bring a guy in and you're
turned off by by what you find out in the
visit and it confirms maybe something. It confirms maybe a
concern that you had, as opposed to magnifying the way

(24:55):
the positive feelings that you had about a player. But yeah,
you're right, Like we mentioned before, we went into that
day with ten picks, just just on one day and Saturday,
one Saturday, and he was a guy that we really
had targeted. We think can come in and really compete
for that backup quarterback spot and we thought at the

(25:16):
end of the day, given up those two six round
picks was a good move for us. We, like we
talked about before, with with knowing league value and having
a feel for what's going on around the league, we
had gotten word that there was some other teams that
potentially wanted to jump up and ahead of us, and
maybe some of that is because they knew we brought
him in on a visit, so we had gotten word

(25:36):
that teams possibly wanted. We're also interested in trading up
for Ryan, so we we didn't want to, you know,
end up missing out on a guy that we had targeted,
and we had, like, like we mentioned, we had the
AMMO to go up and get him, and so we
moved up there to the second pick in the fourth round,
and we ended up getting him, and we're really happy
about it. I don't think that you guys spend a

(25:57):
month in meetings, so draft meetings with everybody, so I'm
sure it's I mean, but you probably he had to
wait until Friday night to see how the dust cleared
in the first three rounds, but I'm sure at some
point it had been discussed. Hey, we got these extra
sixth round picks and we see a guy in some
particular around we could maybe you know, maybe you know
later in the draft where he could package two six,

(26:18):
you could use them. So it probably wasn't a great
big surprise that you would go up at four together. No,
none at all. I think I think it sounds redundant.
But we had guys that we had targeted, and we
didn't want to let other teams make the choice for
us and just sit back and maybe the guy falls
to us, maybe he doesn't. We had the ability to
go up and get these guys, and we ended up

(26:40):
getting a lot of the guys that we had targeted.
So you go into that that third day of the
draft and we're sitting there at pick one ten and
pick one twenty five. I think the round started at
one h three, so you're looking at it, I believe,
the eighth pick in the twenty third pick in that round.
So you know, you rank your top twenty three players,
and we're up getting a good number of those guys

(27:02):
that we had ranked on our top twenty three going
in to Day three. Well, let's go back to the
last sick of that round. The first time ever the
Bengals had traded back up into a round. He went
to one thirty six. You gave up a fifth. You
gave up your fifth and a sixth to go up
and get Ohio State guard Michael Jordan. I loved that
pick before we're going to talk about running the ball.

(27:23):
But that was I think a point where you thought
you saved yourself. You might have hibited if you had
traded up in the sechie, you might have given up
a fifth. Well, there it is. Yeah, you had already
transformed two sixth into a potential back up quarterback, a
fifth and the sixth you maybe transformed into a potential
starting guard. What was the thinking about going up to

(27:46):
get in Jordan? He kind of stuck out like a
sore thumb. As far as the guy that we thought
was the highest quality offensive linement available at that point,
we loved this versatility that he played all three interior
spot during his time there. I believe he even played
some tackle early on. He's certainly got the size and length,
you know, as far as a guy that could possibly

(28:08):
get you out of a game and tackle on an emergency.
We think guard is his best spot, but we love
love the size. He was another guy that ended up
visiting here to our facility in Cincinnati, and I think
everybody came away with glowing reviews from his visit as
far as his personal character and intelligence and things like that.

(28:29):
So when that matched up with the way we viewed
him as a player, uh, and then and then you're
sitting there in the in the latter part of the
fourth round, and we think he's he's the next next
best offensive lineman that can really have a chance to
come in and compete potentially for a starting job, potentially
for for a high end backup. All these all these

(28:50):
guys have to come in and earn it. But the
way we viewed his talent was was a guy that
can certainly come in and compete for playing time. You
are not going to get that guy in the fifth round.
We didn't think so. Yeah, we didn't think so. You
never know how things could play out with other teams
needs and interests, but we didn't. We didn't want to
want to take that risk. And then you got and

(29:10):
I think and I think Billy Price was a big
help to his teammate of Ohio State, the guy he
replaced at the center for the Buckeye correct. I think
Billy talked to Uh, talk to a lot of our
coaches and uh, and had had very very positive things
to say about Mike. And then with your own fourth
round pick, you getting Rent, the big guy from Arizona State,
a very large man who you know, you got a

(29:32):
lot of after Gmail when billings a little bit about
you know, you get guys coming off the injury. Uh,
this is a guy. This is a guy looked like
he could brought to stick in here and he could
be your first guy off the manch Yeah. Absolutely, I
mean we were really excited about that that pick right there.
Another guy we had targeted, Steve Rodisovic, like I said,

(29:53):
does the West Coast, did a great job going in
the Arizona State and getting really good information. So so
we have a really good feel for what this kid
is is as a person and as a player. Steve's
got some really good connections there at Arizona State that
he trusts that we feel gave us quality information on
what we can expect and what kind of potential that

(30:14):
Ronelle has. And then that also as you as you
move along in the process and the coaches get involved.
We've got a new d line coach, Nick Eason, who
was on board with this guy. He's excited to coach him. Uh,
you know Duffner lou our defensive coordinator. I think everybody
was really excited with the potential that this guy has.

(30:37):
And when you've got personnel staff members that have a
high regard for a guy, and then that matches up
with the regard that the coaches have in the evaluation
of the player and also the excitement of what they
can get out of a guy like that, that that
ends up usually being a good combination in my experience.
And then to add on top of that, we've we've

(30:59):
got some uh, we've got some defensive linemen who are
you know, in the in the six foot to six
two range. We thought it was a really good compliment
to what we have in the room already as far
as adding a big, tall guy with some length and
a ton of a ton of athletic ability. I mean
you can look at his testing numbers at the combine.
He was probably one of the best UH testers as

(31:21):
far as just well athletic tools, jumping and running and
jumping forty. Yeah, you're talking about a guy who's six
five three eighteen with thirty four inch arms, ran about
a five flat forty like you said, really good jumps,
really good shuttles. So we are we are really excited
that we got him. And again it's a it's another
big long stop guy on the interior of our defensive line,

(31:43):
who can who can get the get the hands up
and get in passing lanes as well for some of
the quarterbacks we'll see in our division. And of quotes
Nick Easton as a fourth front himself, so that he
knows what that should look like. Absolutely absolutely, Nick was
a Nicko was a really good player in his time.
I actually overlap with Nick as a player when we

(32:04):
were both in camp, and uh, I was just a
nobody college for you. Oh no, we no, I sawed.
Each guy was a veteran. But so I've known Nick
for a little while, and I'm really excited about about
what Nick's gonna bring with two thousand and eight. It
was two thousand, yeah, which is the year they won
they won it all, I think, right, yeah, yeah, they
ended up win the Super Bowl. I thought that they

(32:25):
cut you and went on to win it. That's I
guess they made the right choice. I don't I remember
he said, I saw one time you guys were in here. Uh,
just for the heck heck where they googled. They googled
images of you and they were trying to find you
that they found a couple of shots at you. The
wait Fraandy camp somewhere in there. That's fun. But it
was it was bet and who else was the camp?

(32:47):
The quarterbacks were been Charlie Batch and the drafted Dennis
Dixon that year, I believe in the fifth round. And
then what happened was Charlie Batch broke his collar bone
in the first preseason game and they time buyer and left,
which so okay, that was That was kind of the
quarterback room that I was in there with How long
did you stay? Did you did you? Did you stay

(33:07):
to the end of the camp? Camp? Yeah, that's good,
that's good. Um. And then uh, the sixth round is uh,
that's a very interesting round. The sixth round that we
would come out of it with those two running backs
trading on Williams out of a and m and Rodney
Anderson out of out of Oklahoma. Uh, two pretty good backs.
I mean, you know, you come into it with go

(33:30):
and mixing, you know, and Flowers who's just you know,
on the practice squad, and then wait, you got two
pretty good backs to fill out that fell out that spot. Absolutely,
you're you look at our depth chart going into to
Day three of the draft and we're sitting there thinking, Okay,
who has a clear path to make our roster with

(33:53):
with these selections that we have here on Saturday, and
clearly the back end of the running back depth chart
there at least one, if not two spots up for
the taking at that at that position. So we were
we were really excited that both Tregon and Rodney were
still there in the sixth round. Um. You know, if

(34:14):
if you would have asked, I think any of our
scouts and coaches prior to the draft if if they
thought any of those guys would would either of those
guys would be there in the sixth round. I don't
think anybody would have would have felt good about that.
But you know when both absolutely, when when you get
both then uh, they're they have a little different style,
So I think they each bring something unique. Tregon obviously

(34:37):
led to sec in rushing this year, so had a
heck of a year and he's been productive in all
three years he was there at a NM So um
another described their styles, plus he kind of compared the
styles Trayon's a little smaller back. You know he might correct, Yeah,
right right around that range. Um, He's probably a guy
if you're looking for a comparison, would be closer to

(34:58):
the to the g. Bernard Moldeum from a size, heightweight,
speed standpoint. He also caught the ball well out of
the backfield. We thought he had really good vision and
instincts as a runner. You don't run for seventeen hundred
plus yards by accident in the sec obviously, So he's
a he's a tough guy, another guy who's got the

(35:19):
mental and character makeup that we really wanted on our team.
Both of these guys are and then Rodney is a big, fast, explosive.
There's there's no way that he would have been anywhere
close to the to the sixth round if he hadn't
had some of the injuries. I mean, he's a first
round pick. There's a chance there's a chance he would
have he would have went he would have went really
high if if he plays three years healthy, like you said,

(35:42):
And the thing that really struck h struck our scouting
staff with Rodney was we interviewed Obviously, Oklahoma had a
heck of the team and we interviewed a lot of
their players down there in Mobile at the Senior Bowl,
and every one of them said Rodney was the team
leader on not just their offense, but their overall team.

(36:04):
And that was even after he went out early in
the year with a season ending injuries. So he's just
there a practice in street clothes and this guy's still
regarded as the team leader. So he's what we want
from from a from a leadership and character standpoint, and
we were we were really excited to get him. Obviously,

(36:24):
that could be a steal when you when you have
that that type of talent and you get him that
late in the draft. Um, so hopefully he gets up
to speed quickly coming off the injuries and uh, and
we're excited to see him out out there on the field.
And of course, treading on Jim Turner had been with
him at Texas thing at him the Bengal's new offensive
line coach, and uh, you guys are all over that. Yeah. Absolutely.

(36:46):
I mean, like I said, you you work to develop
relationships with people at the school. So we come away
in our meetings and we feel good about the information
we got from our sources at Texas A and m.
But when you have a guy who was actually been
with him every single day, um, you know that that
carries even more weight. So uh so jim had really

(37:08):
good things to say about him and um, and you know,
that was just another another piece of the puzzle to
to strengthen his case for for us pulling him off
the board. How much of the help was it with
with the new coaching staff. He had a bunch of
college coaches in here, James Casey, the tight ends coach,
Tim Liquiboo, the linebackers coach. Um. You know, Jimmy had

(37:29):
Jimmy Turner and coach and him. How much of that
was Was that a help in the draft because a
lot of the you know, obviously these coaches had seen
a lot of these guys and even at coach on him.
It was huge in the draft, and it was probably
even more valuable in college free agency because these guys
are in college, they're used to they're used to recruiting,
which is the only time we really have to recruit

(37:50):
guys is in free agency, and and they're also using
their connections that they have at these colleges to uh
to you know, get get in in with us. For
those guys and and get them. But back to back
to the sixth round that ties in with Tim, the
Deshaun Davis picked from Auburn. Tim was at Missus Minacker

(38:11):
and Auburn linebacker Auburn Deshaun Davis and Tim played against
him and it was just a guy that that always
caught his attention. So that so he's been on Tim's
radar for a while before he even got to the
Bengals and uh and you know that that also helped
with with you know how high he he valued the

(38:32):
shown as well, you know, And I thought that was
a great example that pick, that Deshaun Davis pick. We're
talking about the linebacker Auburn rynebacker who's that's a hell
of a nice skit at the deep in a sixth round,
a guy that had I don't know, two hundred and
sixty six career tackles in the n SEC. They don't
grow on my trees. But I thought it was a
great combination of you get Tim who was really for

(38:53):
thirty seven and thirty eight years old. He's a guy
he's coaching the pros, he's coaching in college coming out
of college. Team cover with Mirk Dusterer senior defensive assistant
seeing every NFL linebacker for the last twenty three years,
very very highly regarded guy as a scout and uh,
those two guys hooking up on it. I think they've
hooked up on a Davis pick And that was interesting

(39:13):
to see. The I had exacts done a real nice
job of poem guys from different ages onto his staff.
I thought that was a good example of that. Absolutely absolutely.
You know, Duff and Tim did a phenomenal job throughout
this scouting process helping us as a personnel staff with
their evaluations and then also with the with the college

(39:34):
free agency. Like I mentioned, but DeShawn Davis is a
guy we were we were very very happy to get
in the sixth round. This is this is a guy
that you have to love his makeup. He's been he's
been told he was he was too small. Um. He
plays with a chip on his shoulder. He's the the
outa male and their defense at Auburn's he's their teenth

(39:55):
their defensive captain. I mean, this is the guy that
gets everybody lined up. One of the more instinctive players
from the linebacker position in this year's draft, maybe the
most instinctive that any linebacker there's a chance. I mean,
I I can't sit here and tell you I studied
every single linebacker in this whole draft, so I don't

(40:16):
want to I don't want to speak in absolutes like that.
But he's probably the most instinctive guy that that I
studied this year out of a good a good amount
of linebackers. And you just, I mean, what sticks out
to me is the LSU game. In my head, you
flip on that game. I mean this this guy was
everywhere just just running through blockers. Um. You know, he plays,

(40:37):
plays with urgency, plays with violence, and he's just the
type of guy that we won on our team. Um. Again,
maybe he was overlooked a little bit because when you
look at his measurables on paper, maybe he ran in
the four sevens. And that's the difference between him and Devin,
between him and Devin White and Devin Bush. I guess

(40:58):
at speed he would be a step slower in the forty,
but I would put his instincts right up there with
both of those guys, if not better. He plays with
just as much, if not more, physicality, violence and urgency
as those guys do. It's just when you look at
him on paper, and he's maybe a shade smaller than
you like. And the forty time says something in the

(41:20):
four sevens on the draft board as opposed to something
in the four fours than it's a it's a harder
sell for for other teams. But I'm I'm glad other
teams passed on him and we got him there in
the bottom of the sixth round because I can I
can tell you for sure we had a we had
a lot of higher grades than that, just solely based
on watching his film in Auburn. That's cabably another reason.

(41:43):
In the fresh round you say, well, we love Bush,
but you know we can get a guy. Yeah, let's
get I mean if John Williams is there, my god, yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah. The seventh round pick the Bengals only don't
Bengals don't go to small schools. You hear that, you
hear that knock, you know? And then here here we
get Christian psyccasion emerges with Jordan Brown out of South

(42:05):
Dakota State, who's interesting. He took me as interesting measurables
for a seventh pound. Pick a corner who actually is
a side. No, it was a high school teamate of
Ryan Finley's an era in Phoenix. Right, Yeah, Christian went
out there to the Dakota's made that trip and uh
and came back with a number of guys that he
really liked from up there. So we uh you know,

(42:27):
we go down into the Senior Bowl and he continues
to build his case and uh and catch our eye
just you know, the height, weight speed, he's another great
kid captain type. Um So the background information that Christian
came back, came back with and when we met him
on this kid in December really helped his case in

(42:47):
our eyes. And uh, you know, just as far as
from a height, weight speed, outside corner developmental guy, he's
six morth way was sixth moe. He was just under
sixth one's. He's right around two hundred pounds and he's
got a ton of on ball production in his career.
Former receiver at least in high school that right like

(43:07):
you like you mentioned playing with Finley. I believe he
was Finlay's targeted in high schools number one target. I
think it was the second team All State as a receiver. Yeah,
and you can see those receiver ball skills on tape.
There's uh, some really impressive interceptions and past breakups that
he had. So he's he's a guy that you know,
is gonna gonna step into our defensive back room and

(43:28):
and coach Dronta Jones and UH and Rob Livingston or
are gonna work with him and and he's gonna have
a chance to compete in and earn spot. He certainly
got got a ton of ability. He's just gonna have
to jump up from that that level of competition and uh,
and you know, make the transition to the NFL had
to be it has to be a good athlete. He was.
He played with Finlay on the backcourt on a high

(43:50):
school state championship team. So yeah, it was a really
good athlete. And again, you know, I talked about the
level of competition, but I think he I think he
did some really good things down in Mobile at the
Senior Bowl against the top, top level competition in the country,
and he certainly showed he belonged. And that's the thing
about the Senior Bowl. The main thing that a big
thing about the Senior Bowl is seeing the kick from
the small schools competing against the big school guys. I

(44:12):
think Brown Brown showed up. Yeah, that's huge. If you're
watching a guy from the SEC or a SEC or
Big ten. You see those guys against against guys that
are going to be playing on Sundays next year pretty
much on a week to week basis. But um, a
guy that a guy that comes from a small school
and goes to the Senior Bowl, you don't always see that.

(44:32):
You may you may see it one or two games
a year on their on their tape from a lower
level of competition. Say he had had the same measurables
and had the same tape, but the uniform, you know,
but it was the Big ten or the Pac twelve
or the Big twelve. He has a goal in the
seven right, there's a chance he could have gone higher.

(44:53):
For sure. He's certainly got the talent to go higher.
And I think when when you get down there in
that in that seventh round range, we're usually we're usually
picking guys that we have a little bit higher grades on.
You know, you don't want to be picking guys that
you have had back into the roster or a free

(45:14):
agent type of type of grades on. So he was
a guy that we regarded a little higher than that,
and um, you know, he's got a great, great chance
to come in and compete. I remember Dukes saying he
goes a lot of times in that seventh round and
most of the times you're pulling and got your You're
taking guys with fifth round grades. Absolutely, absolutely, That's that's
how it's been. Um, that's pretty much every draft I've
I've been through, which is that's the goal, right, Yeah, yeah,

(45:37):
I mean your guys would have to be really really
picked over um to take a guy with a lower
lower grade than that. So well, I can't thank you,
empis found the time you've you've been very gracious with it,
and uh, you gotta be. Yeah, I had to get
the twenty twenty board built yet or what. We've got
a couple couple of guys up on the board right now.

(45:57):
It just started the past few days watching some of
the top players for the twenty twenty draft. So this, uh,
this process that just culminated last week at the draft
starts in early May, and it's kind of a year
round process. And a lot of these guys you're even
watching in the fall that can't even come out for
that current draft. So you're getting you're building your your

(46:18):
knowledge base and getting familiar with what's Stockholm in the
in the upcoming drafts in the future. So, and there's
a meeting at the end of a right that there's
a meeting at the end of AA where, right, I
guess you meet with the other with other scouts and
stuff and get this thing. Yeah, well, the National Football
Scouting meeting down at the end of May. It's down
in Florida, and that'll be the initial list of prospects

(46:39):
as far as the seniors for next year's twenty twenty draft.
And that'll give us a good starting point. And you know,
that's hundreds and hundreds and names and it's our job
to narrow that down to the ten draft picks in
this case that we end up with, and and college
free agents as well. So in a week from today,
the very much ANTICIPS paid list of college free agents.

(47:02):
You guys choose not to release the list until they
get here signed me a contracts past their physicals. But
you've really got another draft class coming in probably you know,
you worked on those guys as hard as you did
with the drafted guys. So we may be back to
talk to you in the next few weeks pots to
talk about those guys. Yea, absolutely, We've we've got I
think I think roughly eleven guys right now that we've

(47:24):
we've agreed to terms with. Obviously we can't we can't
announce them until it's official and they've come in, came
in and passed their physical and h you know, the
inks dry on their contract. But there's some guys that
that were really excited about that can push for some
back end of the roster spots or if not, the
practice squod for sure. Um So that's always an interesting
process with recruiting those guys, but we think it we

(47:47):
think once the best settled it, it turned out pretty
well for us. And there's some guys that we had
draftable grades on. Mike Potts, director of college scouting for
the Bengals, We thank you very much for the time.
We'll talk you soon. Pot thanks a lot, appreciate it.