January 17, 2019 • 22 mins
In the latest Hobson's Choice Podcast, Geoff Hobson talks with the great Bruce Kozerski.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We're talking to. We're taking a look this week at
the thirtieth anniversary of the nineteen eighty eight AFC Championship Game,
and we're very happy to have a guy who is
literally in the middle of it all. UH center Bruce Kazerski,
better known to a new generation of fans as a
very successful UH head coach at Holy Cross Over in Kentucky.
(00:22):
And UH cause, thanks very much for coming on with us.
Appreciate thank you. It's great. I going back and looking
at the at the game, it was quite a it
was quite a day twenty one ten. You beat the
Bills to finish an unbeaten season at home. It had
to be quite a thrill. Well that we beat them
(00:44):
three times. We mean in the regular season. I think
it was well and uh the deal the number one
seed and the playoffs, which was very unusual to be
any three times. You were the kind of uh you
were the You were the guy who was I think
known for getting the crowd going. Yeah, you you had
(01:07):
the towel, you were you were the guy that got
the got the crowd going. You remember what it was
like that day. I remember front it was phenomenal. That
was a special day. Um, it was obviously going to
be the last time we played the Route Front Stadium
that year, and uh, nobody left. If you remember that game,
they were touched down, was about eight and a half
(01:30):
minutes to go, and we got the ball back. You
had never lived in it. Again. We made that game
probably within the last minute, and so an eight and
a half minute drive, this is what we were we
could do. We had the ability to run the ball
and run the ball, and they knew we were going
to run the ball, and that's what made that seem successful.
So they never got the ball back. Everybody in the
(01:50):
stands was standing. The entire drive was phenomenal. Forty five
minutes after again it was still in the seed. Yeah, yeah,
I guess, and I guess you guys came back out
to salute them, right, we didn't. Yeah, did you know
you can shake hands with your opponents? You you huck
in the locker room, Sam says his words of advice.
We tell the way a little bit and it's still
out there, so you know, it's like, holy rapple, you're
(02:11):
gonna go back out to self. The crowd and waited
so long for that to happen, and we were just
proud and started for them as well. It was what
it was. It was a weird thing because I think
you guys probably woke up to there was a headline
in the paper, uh, saying that the NFL was gonna
outlaw the the mill Huddle, and uh, you know that
(02:33):
they were gonna win form Sam two hours before the game,
they were they were gonna they were gonna stop you
guys from using the offense you had used for the
last five years. Uh. I guess we had certainly certainly
used an all season long. Uh. We we went to
the Nohl offense, and we went to the sugar Humble,
where we were a darn scrimas maybe two or nonf
(02:53):
We we had all tight houndle where we can communicate better. Uh.
And then we went to the hole where we had
all cold and and uh. And they next the whole
thing because I'm supposed to have created a competitive a balance, right,
That's what Mark Levy, I guess. So the Bills head
coach went to the league had some comments Friday night
forty you know, less than forty eight hours before the game,
(03:16):
and said he was going to do with Seattle and
during the week before with Joe Nash and fake injuries
so that so that the Bills would get enough time,
you know, to get their nickel package on the field
on third down. Um, yeah, coach coach trying also to
long to find ways to slow that down. And you
know the fee was to being a hurt phenomen art sidline,
(03:37):
but their timeline we didn't have some ostituations. We were
at every boy from the same person down room Joly,
and so when when they tried to substitute, we pushed
after them and catch him with twelve event on the field.
And that was what uh Joe Nash for Seattle was doing,
was on every third down they're trying to get their
nickel pass rushers on and then nickel comer guys. So
(03:58):
he would like pretend he returned and unt I'm burnished
by that. And I don't think it was never done
again often in one game. I guess I think, uh,
what happened from putting it together by you know, piecing
it together with Sam with head coach Sam wish they
came back to him after they said that, and because
(04:18):
Sam said, look, you know, you can get Pete Roselle
on the phone right now and uh tell him to
tell me, we're not gonna we're not gonna use this,
he said, you know, um and and um he said.
They came back and in fifteen seconds, he said, I
knew they didn't have time to call Roselle. They said
it's ok it's okay, Sam, go ahead use it. And
(04:40):
you know, from what I can understand, it was really
not a not a factor in the game. Uh yeah, yeah,
that Bill's damn. It really wasn't. And uh yeah, we
had enough talent on that game, and we were coach
and we had you know, really really good coach mel
and the balance that created it was seems preparing for us.
(05:05):
It wasn't necessarily ignoring the playing it with the floration
to pointments that year. We were going to run things
or upseembo or small torn scremming and here know, and
and that was that was what kept everybody else failing.
And they try to try to try to figure it out,
and uh, you know, it's just just an order. Were
put a long drive and they couldn't get the social
(05:25):
people failed, and so you get these big defensive linement
I need to get off from R and they can't
get the best restaurant off. You know, you were on
the you that was a hell of an offensive line
that you were the center on there. And you know,
maybe maybe one of the great groups maybe, but one
of the great groups of all time if you look
what you guys accomplished from eighty five to ninety and
(05:50):
that might have been. But that game, that eighty eight
AFC Championship game, might have been the signature moment for
that offensive line. I mean, you rolled up two hundred
guys are rushing and like you said, you dominated. He
kept the ball away from Jim Kelly. That might have
been the moment for the offensive Lion Bruce Playoffs the
whole year playoffs was a dominant performance playing health why
(06:14):
we're on the ball the previous wee for two or
forty four yards they were turning arrogant buff and knowing
what we were going to do, knowing what we were,
what we ran, what we played like because they just
played for turn four weeks before and with no surprises,
they still plited dommin and and really that was just
what send of supporting that here was the to do
(06:35):
what we wanted to do even though they knew what
we're trying to do. And uh, going back and just
looking at some of the stories. You guys, it was
also a smart group of guys led by bled By yourself,
whom you know was uh. Jim McNally has always finally
called you the genius, the football genius of that group. Um,
(06:57):
they go back look at the game story from the
from that from that day. They stuck you guys for
like the first uh for the first quarter and earlier
the second quarter. The longest run was boobers scramble about
twenty nine yards. And then you guys made an adjustment
in the middle where you were trying to you know,
(07:19):
they kind of stopped everything outside they were they were
really doing, causing havoc on the backside, and you guys
made an adjustment in the middle. I don't know, I
don't know how your memory is, Bruce, but you were
a key guy in that and I guess you were
trying to attack Smirless. They're great nose tap. Yeah. You
know you have a game point going in every weekend
(07:39):
and a teachers all side the game for every weekend
again because they just played them and surprised that they
knew what we were trying to do and what we
had to do because we had to make Uh, if
I remember correctly, we had an out point with Gage
boot pole from the fourth guy from the point side,
and uh he Max was just unavoidable on just a
(08:00):
phenomenal foy folly gard maybe the best ever. And uh
but we had to make a block on our still
right then and over Max. As Max led the play,
I think we were there to get on still and
you good at get him and I good at gat them.
I couldn't get him. Finally I just tackled him. I'll
be honest with your job, jim Jimmy said, we can't
run the ball if you can't make that block. Yeah,
(08:20):
and you know fallow fall intensive purposes, it's a block.
Didn't know what you make. And I do that after
shine three times, started just tackling him. And uh as
James Rich goes for a touchdown and you know, our
four armed man, he's yelling up a storm. But uh,
you know what they don't see that has never happened.
And uh and and because we were able to run
that play is then the back stidder was opened and
(08:42):
opened right up there and closed the storm on the
back side. We got outside anyway, the good catch just
and now it cames us to you started back back
and and uh that was it. We we took from
out of the handline. Smurless was quite a player, wouldn't be.
Bruce Free was a good player. Uh all defensive hunt
they had some um fromendous players under and uh everybody
(09:03):
everybody's hears their defensive end. Uh. The past rush year
was Bruce Smith A lot of credit for it was
his rookie here, I believe um and uh, but but
Freddy still inside Uma was because he was stuck in
the quarterback all the time. But to be honest with that,
we ran all right at hand because he was only
Jorn seventy five thousand, you know, Anthony Millium some one inside.
(09:25):
It was probably kind of a no brainer to do that.
And uh, all we had to do is make sure
we got our box to our best on Freddy and
an Art and uh, let Anthony take care of Bruce
Smith court Elias Bennet, And yeah, we had a pretty good,
pretty good chance to be successful. I mean that whole
d I mean you you know, you guys did the
head against the AFC's number one defense. They I mean
(09:47):
you you pubbled them. We did, we did, but again
they were the number one defense against the number one offense. Uh,
and that day the offense won. And uh, you know,
we didn't want to hear we're not of the fun
that we did that against anybody. Uh, clearly haven't anybody.
We had trouble in Super Bowl. The board was certainly
(10:07):
dominated that serious playoffs. By running the ball, it was
kind of a kind of a vindication for Sam and
his scheme too. Well you know what I mean, you
guys were you know, you guys were the future. Well,
he was such a creative, creative guy. I know that
Jimmy mcnelly's at times for him and Bruce Childer. So
(10:28):
Friday he talked to Sam on the run of some
of the stuff that he dream coming to a block
in the morning. But you know what, some of that creative,
This creativity, it's part of the creativity and the and
the eagerness to go to partness. You know, we're exciting
to see what we were doing every day. It wasn't
the same word boring boring stuff. And don't get me wrong,
we had four running players in our game, in our
(10:49):
game plan every week and we hare in saw all
we did and play actually passes off of that with
Trementius receivers, but what he would ring in a church
play or something on the normal. It was fun to
play because team knew it was gonna work. Everybody that
they spent their tyrants. We preparing to take away the
(11:10):
hardest soul of our offerense and he's slept in a
church play and it was gonna work. You know, it
was not working. We were on the play. Everybody tried
to double battle places, bring both linebackers in the again.
And he put this play into the ninety three flyve
and you know it says if the line of screamers
b and bring the James brought up into the last again.
He says, kind of, you bought linebacker on the right, James,
(11:32):
you bought linebacker on the left, pretending like it's going
to be a pass. And at the stamp of the ball,
he takes the ball hands at the James post. I've
bought the other linebacker, and the linebacker that I was
supposed to watch jumps off Boomer's back and Brooks goes,
protest them. Yeah, Brooks goes, it's just like he headed
into his imagination. Yeah, he says, a creative guy. And
(11:53):
we love we love the player same Yeah, yeah, the
uh I know he was uh. He said he was
talking to Matt Nolan the other uh not long before
Mac got his high transplant. Course, Sam Sam had a
high transplant, so he was calling to commiserate with him
and wish him good luck. And Milan said, you're not
gonna believe this, Sam. I get some of my old
teammates here. We were just talking about you about a
(12:14):
play on the three yard line where Boomber faked at
the James Brooks and I was, I had him all
lined up and the next thing I know, Brooks opened
his arms up. He doesn't have the ball. He looks
over to the other side of the end zone and
Rodney Holman has got the ball and the ref signaling touchdowns.
He's saying, He's saying, I stayed forty five minutes after
the game to ask you how did the ball get
(12:37):
from James Brooks to Rodney Holman? Because he score the
Boober hand at all. But Boolber, probably the greatest play
action quarterback of all times. Down Bill behind the defense
and he said, can see bober plants over and over
and overran the lineman, telling Burt thing the staring certain things.
(13:02):
But It was like the position with the ball and
he has such an for hiding it and then all
of a sudden falling the ball up and throwing the ball.
And he had from the start, Jeff, so he was
a national asset. Sam started it more and more and
more even better because I understand he was standing forty
yards now but where the safety stands to watch it,
(13:23):
and said, if I can see it, they can see it,
and what worked. So that's that's how I got better
the cruse. How about the just the atmosphere of the
pre game. I know, talking to Anthony, Sam had mentioned
that the league was going to do this stuff and
Anthony thought it fired. You guys up, what was what
(13:44):
was the pregame atmosphere like that AFC Championship game. Well,
it's it's a pright issue. They're trying to take away
horror of what we do and they're not giving us
a credit for being who we are. And uh, that's
pretty much the market soul of what he said. Um,
you know we did this, and yeah, the scheme helps
(14:07):
with timing and some different things, but they're challenging us.
They're challenging how good we were instead of instead of uh,
letting the rules, taking pleading the rules, and we played
with the rules. And now that late stage of the game,
they're trying to change the rules because the league can't
catch up with as well, you know, fitting all of
(14:29):
that with Paul Brown. The league could catch up with
Paul Brown for years. And so just again, the organizations
were creative since the very beginning, and maybe they need
to go back to some more of that creative stuff
and push the rules to to the limit and get
back and not being so conservative. And maybe that's maybe
that was the key. But when Anthony got together, he
(14:51):
wasn't a vocal guy. He was Anthony with Anthony, and
he led by example, you know. He he was the
best offense wideman to play the game. And so you
you know what, you did your job. He was over
to work out, and uh, but he spoke that day,
you know, and it spoke volumes for how porn it was. Again,
it was challenging our men or how good we were.
(15:14):
And so as a sense of prior, we just went
out eliminated the possibility. Yeah right, And I guess you
did and they and you did run it. I mean, uh,
I think I think you pretty much did what you
did all year. Uh and uh Boo boolder was actually
wanted them to get the nic alarm the field because
you can run it against them. Yeah, that was the
(15:38):
that was the best part of the offense, says. We
never had to run a place that didn't have a
good chance to work. Um and so we went he
called a plane, but you know at the time he
called one point and there were two other plays the wren,
so you go to a lot of strummage. And that
was a communication that went on between me and Boo
and the listening. Most of the offense went on alimost
(16:00):
and if he likes when he saw, he gave us
one word and we ran it. If he if he
didn't like what he saw, he checked to the best play.
Then we run a week against the way he saw.
And so if if you're read a defense, you you're
pretty much pretty solve in a win situation. Every time
if a boxer made, i mean a man versus man,
you're gonna miss the buck. But if if if everybody
(16:22):
makes the boxer the way they're supposed to play, no
defense can take away everything. What was that last drive like?
Because when you guys just tell the arm the ball.
That was the money or Jeff in my entire career,
that was the mine drive. That was the one drum.
And I'll never forgetting it was like I said, it
was eight minutes or just over eight minutes, and they
(16:43):
never got the ball back. There was one play it
was a third or long and we had a we
didn't make it, but they had a sports from like
conduct um penalty and we got the ball back. And
in the locker room after the team in the Buffalo
locker room, man, I did I think his name was
Larmalalore Jeff Valore. Uh, he was retiring after the game,
(17:04):
and he hoped the Super Bowl. Uh, and well he
assisted by hi locker room because the perceptions for the
the defensive back to the punch. Yeah, and brother Jeff
Bart drive alive and and uh we ended up going
down school and had touched down to delete in twenty
one ten. Yeah, Yeah, that that had to be a
great more cloud had to be with you and had
(17:24):
to be riding. Yeah, that had to be had to
be a great moment. One remember forget one, I remember forget. Yeah,
the city the city made made the made that happened
that year because yes, the combination of the chemistry was
all there. It was all there, and the year before
it was visible with the with the strike, short season
and all of the charuma that we windvented ways to
(17:46):
lose in in nineteen eighty seven, but we also we
also created wins in eighty eight. Uh because what what
elements do you think he took from that team and
those Bengals teams? What elements did you take into a
coaching career? Well, I think the one thing that it
is inevitable is that, um, it takes all eleven players
(18:08):
on the field at one time to do their job.
And a lot of times in high schools you get
individuals that are maybe superior officially, and so they tried
to get too much and ultimate what happens is they
don't do their job well enough to be successful and
bringing the team down. And so the hardest part is
(18:28):
that is to make everybody do their very best job
on every play and keep it simple, give them an
opportunity to be successful. That's the hardest part is to
evaluate your talent put them in a position to be successful.
It doesn't do me and here it doesn't do them
any good to run plays that interestically are unable to
(18:49):
run and so that's the hardest part of coaching. And
I just love to every ventability to do These people
that I work with, the holding costs are inspiring and
they keep to be young. And Uh, I'm unfortunately every day.
What offense do you guys, brom we run a spread
offense for years and years and years as an offensive.
(19:10):
Why are we packed them there around the power eye
and a lot to tight end fronts and uh? Handed
it off? Um, But the evolution of the game. Kids
want to run the pass rounds to catch the ball,
and quarterbacks wants through it. And if you're gonna get
if you're gonna get the personnel to play football good
purball people, you have to give them the ability to
(19:30):
have fun and do it and do it. They're the
best ended, so we should play it out. And that
doesn't mean we don't want to go a lot. We
worked pretty much the fisycist the team. UM. All our
best teams have been able to throw the ball. Are
you to use elements do you use? Do you use
elements of what? Sam of what we first started. When
we first started, I thought it was I was trying
(19:51):
to beat McNally and realize that there is only one
to mcneali, and that the intensity of the NFL is
way different than the intendency in high school. And it
took a mixt few years and the guiens got way
song too to bring me the realization that I was
coaching kids and and uh I needed to make a
(20:12):
make a big kid clearly young man. And did you
have it have a different right way and the fundamentals
and also to so lives life like to do the
things um off the field, and uh, it really has
become a brein job for me. The did you did
you take anything from Sam? The way Sam ran the
team or the way you ran the offense. I would
(20:34):
imagine it's probably there's a bunch of stuff in a
playbook you got you got problem, a lot of stuff. Um,
you know, the creativity. Maybe maybe no one will be
ever be that creative. Again, there's some guys in the
league that there are kids close. But the one thing
I've learned to Sam is that when you're on the field,
your intense, you're you're you're playing football. Intensity matters, the
(20:54):
motion matters will drop the field. Um, you're not intense,
You're you're personable. As you have to get to build
the player, Sam, Sam could tell you which opened the
hallway and to shoot your fun out in the meeting
room two minutes later. Because one was one was a relationship,
a human relationship, and one was a job. One was
a football relationship. You can't do the job. He has
(21:17):
to find somebody who can't. But he was as Curtis
areas and relating to people being a plan of being
boss as you why you love to play for the
guy because you could sat play this year. I remember,
uh today he left. Remember there's there's a thoughtfully play
that goes to be served. What a great what a
(21:40):
great outlook on life? And the year I retired a
business card Furdom to say with my beingal helmet on it,
and that's say saying there's Alfrey player that has to
be served. I've had some groups to some great some
great coaches over the years, but between Jim McNally and
Sam Whiteside, I don't know if I've got better. I
don't know if there are any better. Well, listen, we
(22:01):
can't tell you how proudly are you cause what you
what you've done off the field, what you've done with
the kids at the community, it's uh you've been a
model guy. Yeah yeah, super Bowl Center. You're also a
winner of the Paul Brown Coaching Award for high schools.
Uh uh just uh it's been uh, it's been a
great run for you. We hope you keep doing it,
(22:22):
keep doing you and you do it so well. And
uh again, thank you, thank you for spending the time
with us today. Thank your rolling. I'll be hoping enough
to do it for a lot of years here
We're talking to. We're taking a look this week at
the thirtieth anniversary of the nineteen eighty eight AFC Championship Game,
and we're very happy to have a guy who is
literally in the middle of it all. UH center Bruce Kazerski,
better known to a new generation of fans as a
very successful UH head coach at Holy Cross Over in Kentucky.
(00:22):
And UH cause, thanks very much for coming on with us.
Appreciate thank you. It's great. I going back and looking
at the at the game, it was quite a it
was quite a day twenty one ten. You beat the
Bills to finish an unbeaten season at home. It had
to be quite a thrill. Well that we beat them
(00:44):
three times. We mean in the regular season. I think
it was well and uh the deal the number one
seed and the playoffs, which was very unusual to be
any three times. You were the kind of uh you
were the You were the guy who was I think
known for getting the crowd going. Yeah, you you had
(01:07):
the towel, you were you were the guy that got
the got the crowd going. You remember what it was
like that day. I remember front it was phenomenal. That
was a special day. Um, it was obviously going to
be the last time we played the Route Front Stadium
that year, and uh, nobody left. If you remember that game,
they were touched down, was about eight and a half
(01:30):
minutes to go, and we got the ball back. You
had never lived in it. Again. We made that game
probably within the last minute, and so an eight and
a half minute drive, this is what we were we
could do. We had the ability to run the ball
and run the ball, and they knew we were going
to run the ball, and that's what made that seem successful.
So they never got the ball back. Everybody in the
(01:50):
stands was standing. The entire drive was phenomenal. Forty five
minutes after again it was still in the seed. Yeah, yeah,
I guess, and I guess you guys came back out
to salute them, right, we didn't. Yeah, did you know
you can shake hands with your opponents? You you huck
in the locker room, Sam says his words of advice.
We tell the way a little bit and it's still
out there, so you know, it's like, holy rapple, you're
(02:11):
gonna go back out to self. The crowd and waited
so long for that to happen, and we were just
proud and started for them as well. It was what
it was. It was a weird thing because I think
you guys probably woke up to there was a headline
in the paper, uh, saying that the NFL was gonna
outlaw the the mill Huddle, and uh, you know that
(02:33):
they were gonna win form Sam two hours before the game,
they were they were gonna they were gonna stop you
guys from using the offense you had used for the
last five years. Uh. I guess we had certainly certainly
used an all season long. Uh. We we went to
the Nohl offense, and we went to the sugar Humble,
where we were a darn scrimas maybe two or nonf
(02:53):
We we had all tight houndle where we can communicate better. Uh.
And then we went to the hole where we had
all cold and and uh. And they next the whole
thing because I'm supposed to have created a competitive a balance, right,
That's what Mark Levy, I guess. So the Bills head
coach went to the league had some comments Friday night
forty you know, less than forty eight hours before the game,
(03:16):
and said he was going to do with Seattle and
during the week before with Joe Nash and fake injuries
so that so that the Bills would get enough time,
you know, to get their nickel package on the field
on third down. Um, yeah, coach coach trying also to
long to find ways to slow that down. And you
know the fee was to being a hurt phenomen art sidline,
(03:37):
but their timeline we didn't have some ostituations. We were
at every boy from the same person down room Joly,
and so when when they tried to substitute, we pushed
after them and catch him with twelve event on the field.
And that was what uh Joe Nash for Seattle was doing,
was on every third down they're trying to get their
nickel pass rushers on and then nickel comer guys. So
(03:58):
he would like pretend he returned and unt I'm burnished
by that. And I don't think it was never done
again often in one game. I guess I think, uh,
what happened from putting it together by you know, piecing
it together with Sam with head coach Sam wish they
came back to him after they said that, and because
(04:18):
Sam said, look, you know, you can get Pete Roselle
on the phone right now and uh tell him to
tell me, we're not gonna we're not gonna use this,
he said, you know, um and and um he said.
They came back and in fifteen seconds, he said, I
knew they didn't have time to call Roselle. They said
it's ok it's okay, Sam, go ahead use it. And
(04:40):
you know, from what I can understand, it was really
not a not a factor in the game. Uh yeah, yeah,
that Bill's damn. It really wasn't. And uh yeah, we
had enough talent on that game, and we were coach
and we had you know, really really good coach mel
and the balance that created it was seems preparing for us.
(05:05):
It wasn't necessarily ignoring the playing it with the floration
to pointments that year. We were going to run things
or upseembo or small torn scremming and here know, and
and that was that was what kept everybody else failing.
And they try to try to try to figure it out,
and uh, you know, it's just just an order. Were
put a long drive and they couldn't get the social
(05:25):
people failed, and so you get these big defensive linement
I need to get off from R and they can't
get the best restaurant off. You know, you were on
the you that was a hell of an offensive line
that you were the center on there. And you know,
maybe maybe one of the great groups maybe, but one
of the great groups of all time if you look
what you guys accomplished from eighty five to ninety and
(05:50):
that might have been. But that game, that eighty eight
AFC Championship game, might have been the signature moment for
that offensive line. I mean, you rolled up two hundred
guys are rushing and like you said, you dominated. He
kept the ball away from Jim Kelly. That might have
been the moment for the offensive Lion Bruce Playoffs the
whole year playoffs was a dominant performance playing health why
(06:14):
we're on the ball the previous wee for two or
forty four yards they were turning arrogant buff and knowing
what we were going to do, knowing what we were,
what we ran, what we played like because they just
played for turn four weeks before and with no surprises,
they still plited dommin and and really that was just
what send of supporting that here was the to do
(06:35):
what we wanted to do even though they knew what
we're trying to do. And uh, going back and just
looking at some of the stories. You guys, it was
also a smart group of guys led by bled By yourself,
whom you know was uh. Jim McNally has always finally
called you the genius, the football genius of that group. Um,
(06:57):
they go back look at the game story from the
from that from that day. They stuck you guys for
like the first uh for the first quarter and earlier
the second quarter. The longest run was boobers scramble about
twenty nine yards. And then you guys made an adjustment
in the middle where you were trying to you know,
(07:19):
they kind of stopped everything outside they were they were
really doing, causing havoc on the backside, and you guys
made an adjustment in the middle. I don't know, I
don't know how your memory is, Bruce, but you were
a key guy in that and I guess you were
trying to attack Smirless. They're great nose tap. Yeah. You
know you have a game point going in every weekend
(07:39):
and a teachers all side the game for every weekend
again because they just played them and surprised that they
knew what we were trying to do and what we
had to do because we had to make Uh, if
I remember correctly, we had an out point with Gage
boot pole from the fourth guy from the point side,
and uh he Max was just unavoidable on just a
(08:00):
phenomenal foy folly gard maybe the best ever. And uh
but we had to make a block on our still
right then and over Max. As Max led the play,
I think we were there to get on still and
you good at get him and I good at gat them.
I couldn't get him. Finally I just tackled him. I'll
be honest with your job, jim Jimmy said, we can't
run the ball if you can't make that block. Yeah,
(08:20):
and you know fallow fall intensive purposes, it's a block.
Didn't know what you make. And I do that after
shine three times, started just tackling him. And uh as
James Rich goes for a touchdown and you know, our
four armed man, he's yelling up a storm. But uh,
you know what they don't see that has never happened.
And uh and and because we were able to run
that play is then the back stidder was opened and
(08:42):
opened right up there and closed the storm on the
back side. We got outside anyway, the good catch just
and now it cames us to you started back back
and and uh that was it. We we took from
out of the handline. Smurless was quite a player, wouldn't be.
Bruce Free was a good player. Uh all defensive hunt
they had some um fromendous players under and uh everybody
(09:03):
everybody's hears their defensive end. Uh. The past rush year
was Bruce Smith A lot of credit for it was
his rookie here, I believe um and uh, but but
Freddy still inside Uma was because he was stuck in
the quarterback all the time. But to be honest with that,
we ran all right at hand because he was only
Jorn seventy five thousand, you know, Anthony Millium some one inside.
(09:25):
It was probably kind of a no brainer to do that.
And uh, all we had to do is make sure
we got our box to our best on Freddy and
an Art and uh, let Anthony take care of Bruce
Smith court Elias Bennet, And yeah, we had a pretty good,
pretty good chance to be successful. I mean that whole
d I mean you you know, you guys did the
head against the AFC's number one defense. They I mean
(09:47):
you you pubbled them. We did, we did, but again
they were the number one defense against the number one offense. Uh,
and that day the offense won. And uh, you know,
we didn't want to hear we're not of the fun
that we did that against anybody. Uh, clearly haven't anybody.
We had trouble in Super Bowl. The board was certainly
(10:07):
dominated that serious playoffs. By running the ball, it was
kind of a kind of a vindication for Sam and
his scheme too. Well you know what I mean, you
guys were you know, you guys were the future. Well,
he was such a creative, creative guy. I know that
Jimmy mcnelly's at times for him and Bruce Childer. So
(10:28):
Friday he talked to Sam on the run of some
of the stuff that he dream coming to a block
in the morning. But you know what, some of that creative,
This creativity, it's part of the creativity and the and
the eagerness to go to partness. You know, we're exciting
to see what we were doing every day. It wasn't
the same word boring boring stuff. And don't get me wrong,
we had four running players in our game, in our
(10:49):
game plan every week and we hare in saw all
we did and play actually passes off of that with
Trementius receivers, but what he would ring in a church
play or something on the normal. It was fun to
play because team knew it was gonna work. Everybody that
they spent their tyrants. We preparing to take away the
(11:10):
hardest soul of our offerense and he's slept in a
church play and it was gonna work. You know, it
was not working. We were on the play. Everybody tried
to double battle places, bring both linebackers in the again.
And he put this play into the ninety three flyve
and you know it says if the line of screamers
b and bring the James brought up into the last again.
He says, kind of, you bought linebacker on the right, James,
(11:32):
you bought linebacker on the left, pretending like it's going
to be a pass. And at the stamp of the ball,
he takes the ball hands at the James post. I've
bought the other linebacker, and the linebacker that I was
supposed to watch jumps off Boomer's back and Brooks goes,
protest them. Yeah, Brooks goes, it's just like he headed
into his imagination. Yeah, he says, a creative guy. And
(11:53):
we love we love the player same Yeah, yeah, the
uh I know he was uh. He said he was
talking to Matt Nolan the other uh not long before
Mac got his high transplant. Course, Sam Sam had a
high transplant, so he was calling to commiserate with him
and wish him good luck. And Milan said, you're not
gonna believe this, Sam. I get some of my old
teammates here. We were just talking about you about a
(12:14):
play on the three yard line where Boomber faked at
the James Brooks and I was, I had him all
lined up and the next thing I know, Brooks opened
his arms up. He doesn't have the ball. He looks
over to the other side of the end zone and
Rodney Holman has got the ball and the ref signaling touchdowns.
He's saying, He's saying, I stayed forty five minutes after
the game to ask you how did the ball get
(12:37):
from James Brooks to Rodney Holman? Because he score the
Boober hand at all. But Boolber, probably the greatest play
action quarterback of all times. Down Bill behind the defense
and he said, can see bober plants over and over
and overran the lineman, telling Burt thing the staring certain things.
(13:02):
But It was like the position with the ball and
he has such an for hiding it and then all
of a sudden falling the ball up and throwing the ball.
And he had from the start, Jeff, so he was
a national asset. Sam started it more and more and
more even better because I understand he was standing forty
yards now but where the safety stands to watch it,
(13:23):
and said, if I can see it, they can see it,
and what worked. So that's that's how I got better
the cruse. How about the just the atmosphere of the
pre game. I know, talking to Anthony, Sam had mentioned
that the league was going to do this stuff and
Anthony thought it fired. You guys up, what was what
(13:44):
was the pregame atmosphere like that AFC Championship game. Well,
it's it's a pright issue. They're trying to take away
horror of what we do and they're not giving us
a credit for being who we are. And uh, that's
pretty much the market soul of what he said. Um,
you know we did this, and yeah, the scheme helps
(14:07):
with timing and some different things, but they're challenging us.
They're challenging how good we were instead of instead of uh,
letting the rules, taking pleading the rules, and we played
with the rules. And now that late stage of the game,
they're trying to change the rules because the league can't
catch up with as well, you know, fitting all of
(14:29):
that with Paul Brown. The league could catch up with
Paul Brown for years. And so just again, the organizations
were creative since the very beginning, and maybe they need
to go back to some more of that creative stuff
and push the rules to to the limit and get
back and not being so conservative. And maybe that's maybe
that was the key. But when Anthony got together, he
(14:51):
wasn't a vocal guy. He was Anthony with Anthony, and
he led by example, you know. He he was the
best offense wideman to play the game. And so you
you know what, you did your job. He was over
to work out, and uh, but he spoke that day,
you know, and it spoke volumes for how porn it was. Again,
it was challenging our men or how good we were.
(15:14):
And so as a sense of prior, we just went
out eliminated the possibility. Yeah right, And I guess you
did and they and you did run it. I mean, uh,
I think I think you pretty much did what you
did all year. Uh and uh Boo boolder was actually
wanted them to get the nic alarm the field because
you can run it against them. Yeah, that was the
(15:38):
that was the best part of the offense, says. We
never had to run a place that didn't have a
good chance to work. Um and so we went he
called a plane, but you know at the time he
called one point and there were two other plays the wren,
so you go to a lot of strummage. And that
was a communication that went on between me and Boo
and the listening. Most of the offense went on alimost
(16:00):
and if he likes when he saw, he gave us
one word and we ran it. If he if he
didn't like what he saw, he checked to the best play.
Then we run a week against the way he saw.
And so if if you're read a defense, you you're
pretty much pretty solve in a win situation. Every time
if a boxer made, i mean a man versus man,
you're gonna miss the buck. But if if if everybody
(16:22):
makes the boxer the way they're supposed to play, no
defense can take away everything. What was that last drive like?
Because when you guys just tell the arm the ball.
That was the money or Jeff in my entire career,
that was the mine drive. That was the one drum.
And I'll never forgetting it was like I said, it
was eight minutes or just over eight minutes, and they
(16:43):
never got the ball back. There was one play it
was a third or long and we had a we
didn't make it, but they had a sports from like
conduct um penalty and we got the ball back. And
in the locker room after the team in the Buffalo
locker room, man, I did I think his name was
Larmalalore Jeff Valore. Uh, he was retiring after the game,
(17:04):
and he hoped the Super Bowl. Uh, and well he
assisted by hi locker room because the perceptions for the
the defensive back to the punch. Yeah, and brother Jeff
Bart drive alive and and uh we ended up going
down school and had touched down to delete in twenty
one ten. Yeah, Yeah, that that had to be a
great more cloud had to be with you and had
(17:24):
to be riding. Yeah, that had to be had to
be a great moment. One remember forget one, I remember forget. Yeah,
the city the city made made the made that happened
that year because yes, the combination of the chemistry was
all there. It was all there, and the year before
it was visible with the with the strike, short season
and all of the charuma that we windvented ways to
(17:46):
lose in in nineteen eighty seven, but we also we
also created wins in eighty eight. Uh because what what
elements do you think he took from that team and
those Bengals teams? What elements did you take into a
coaching career? Well, I think the one thing that it
is inevitable is that, um, it takes all eleven players
(18:08):
on the field at one time to do their job.
And a lot of times in high schools you get
individuals that are maybe superior officially, and so they tried
to get too much and ultimate what happens is they
don't do their job well enough to be successful and
bringing the team down. And so the hardest part is
(18:28):
that is to make everybody do their very best job
on every play and keep it simple, give them an
opportunity to be successful. That's the hardest part is to
evaluate your talent put them in a position to be successful.
It doesn't do me and here it doesn't do them
any good to run plays that interestically are unable to
(18:49):
run and so that's the hardest part of coaching. And
I just love to every ventability to do These people
that I work with, the holding costs are inspiring and
they keep to be young. And Uh, I'm unfortunately every day.
What offense do you guys, brom we run a spread
offense for years and years and years as an offensive.
(19:10):
Why are we packed them there around the power eye
and a lot to tight end fronts and uh? Handed
it off? Um, But the evolution of the game. Kids
want to run the pass rounds to catch the ball,
and quarterbacks wants through it. And if you're gonna get
if you're gonna get the personnel to play football good
purball people, you have to give them the ability to
(19:30):
have fun and do it and do it. They're the
best ended, so we should play it out. And that
doesn't mean we don't want to go a lot. We
worked pretty much the fisycist the team. UM. All our
best teams have been able to throw the ball. Are
you to use elements do you use? Do you use
elements of what? Sam of what we first started. When
we first started, I thought it was I was trying
(19:51):
to beat McNally and realize that there is only one
to mcneali, and that the intensity of the NFL is
way different than the intendency in high school. And it
took a mixt few years and the guiens got way
song too to bring me the realization that I was
coaching kids and and uh I needed to make a
(20:12):
make a big kid clearly young man. And did you
have it have a different right way and the fundamentals
and also to so lives life like to do the
things um off the field, and uh, it really has
become a brein job for me. The did you did
you take anything from Sam? The way Sam ran the
team or the way you ran the offense. I would
(20:34):
imagine it's probably there's a bunch of stuff in a
playbook you got you got problem, a lot of stuff. Um,
you know, the creativity. Maybe maybe no one will be
ever be that creative. Again, there's some guys in the
league that there are kids close. But the one thing
I've learned to Sam is that when you're on the field,
your intense, you're you're you're playing football. Intensity matters, the
(20:54):
motion matters will drop the field. Um, you're not intense,
You're you're personable. As you have to get to build
the player, Sam, Sam could tell you which opened the
hallway and to shoot your fun out in the meeting
room two minutes later. Because one was one was a relationship,
a human relationship, and one was a job. One was
a football relationship. You can't do the job. He has
(21:17):
to find somebody who can't. But he was as Curtis
areas and relating to people being a plan of being
boss as you why you love to play for the
guy because you could sat play this year. I remember,
uh today he left. Remember there's there's a thoughtfully play
that goes to be served. What a great what a
(21:40):
great outlook on life? And the year I retired a
business card Furdom to say with my beingal helmet on it,
and that's say saying there's Alfrey player that has to
be served. I've had some groups to some great some
great coaches over the years, but between Jim McNally and
Sam Whiteside, I don't know if I've got better. I
don't know if there are any better. Well, listen, we
(22:01):
can't tell you how proudly are you cause what you
what you've done off the field, what you've done with
the kids at the community, it's uh you've been a
model guy. Yeah yeah, super Bowl Center. You're also a
winner of the Paul Brown Coaching Award for high schools.
Uh uh just uh it's been uh, it's been a
great run for you. We hope you keep doing it,
(22:22):
keep doing you and you do it so well. And
uh again, thank you, thank you for spending the time
with us today. Thank your rolling. I'll be hoping enough
to do it for a lot of years here
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