August 15, 2025 • 14 mins
Prop tells two stories about his encounters with powerful white men: how he fumbled the bag with Bill Gates and why he knows Doug Wilson.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Media. Okay, story time, I actually knew Doug Wilson, one
of the Hubbies, moved out there to be a part
of the whole joint, and he's guta moved out there
be still friend. But listen, I was unaware of the
(00:24):
extent for which this man was saying exactly what he meant. Okay,
my antenna's failed me fifteen years ago, all right, that
being with me? Did I ever tell y'all my Bill
(00:54):
Gates story? I stood that, nigga long story, short story
story long. I went to this event for the Gates
Foundation that I had no idea that the name Gates
Foundation and Bill and Melinda Gates were distant planets. I
had no idea they were the same thing. So get invited.
I get a call or a text a few days
later from apparently Bill and Melinda's assistant that was saying
(01:18):
they were so impressed with me and wanted to meet me,
and they was going to send a fight for me
for dinner. Now I'm sitting in front of my daughter's
ballet class like waiting for her to finish her little
dance practice. Ain't nowhere in the world. I'm finna pack
a bag, go to the Airport just to go to
dinner in Seattle, and even it's in being in Seattle,
I still haven't connected the dots that the Gates Foundation
(01:39):
is Bill and Melinda Gates. For some reason, the math
wasn't mathing, so I just don't respond. I'm like, man,
I'm not finna, just like I was like, all right, man,
I'll see what's up, and I just didn't reply. It
wasn't until many years later somebody went, yeah, Bill and
Melinda Gates as in Bill Gates Gates Foundation. I was like, oh,
so when he said he was going to send the flight,
(02:00):
he meant he was going to send like a plane,
like he was going to fly, like he was gonna
like literally fly me up. And then a couple of
years after that, maybe four years after that, I run
into the dude at the Moultloma Whiskey Library in Portland,
and I was like, yo, uh, remember you you called
me and asked me you had no idea who Bill
(02:23):
Gates was. I just I never they were onto differ
I would have never connected the dots. I was like,
what did y'all think when I did? He goes, we
just thought you was the coolest dude ever like this
use fool just used to stood up Bill Gates. I was, like,
I mean, I was unintentionally a revolutionary in that scenario.
The point I'm trying to say is sometimes as plugged
(02:44):
in and tapped in as I be, sometimes my antennas
failed me. I just don't be knowing. Now. Now some
of y'all may know my origin story as a Christian rapper.
Now when I say Christian rapper, I know y'all think
it's something that probably if you don't know my past
is not we are not saying the same thing. Okay.
(03:05):
Like I said before, I no part of my past
was conservative, even when we was Christians. I come from
inner city urban church. So when we talk about impacting
the culture, I'm thinking beloved community. I'm thinking, you know,
the ten points program of the Black Panthers, So I'm
(03:26):
thinking revolution in that sense, radical generosity, loving one's neighbor,
esteeming others higher than themselves, having empathy for those who
are suffering. There's a chapter inside of my terrorform book
called y'all got it from the Homi Nish called institutionalized neighborliness.
So Jesus's thing is like you post to love your neighbor.
(03:48):
Love God and neighbor. Those are the two highest goods
you could have. Then what's the most effective way to
love the most amount of neighbors? And it's voting in
good laws. That's like concerning the welfare and well being
of the people around you. I believe in a pluralistic
society because the person you have been listening to on
this show is the person I kind of always being granted,
(04:11):
my faith has evolved in ways that my mama may
not be proud of. But this where we are right now.
At the end of the day. Your boys are leftists,
anarchist leftists, like, look, that's where I'm at. But none
of which as far as I was concerned. I mean,
I feel like I don't see the I don't see that.
I don't got the dualistic thinking that like the American
(04:35):
government gotta be Christian, or that we can't coexist with
people that don't think the same as us. I just don't.
I ain't come from that. I didn't come from even
when I was really deep into the evangelical world, I
just didn't come from that. Like I have a nothing
about my church background would end at Donald Trump as
just I just didn't come from that tradition. Having said that,
(04:56):
the traditions that ended at Donald Trump were the one
that ran off the festival that controlled all the flows
of music and commerce right now, since I'm not from
a Bible belt city, I would not have known of
any of the things that was happening now when I
(05:16):
started doing music, since I come from Tonal Rat's la
underground battle rap, we were very aggressive. Like the idea
of being a Christian rapper was as weird as the
idea of being a Muslim rapper. You was just a rap,
like and you rapped about what you rapped about. You
were who you were, Like, you just kept it real,
(05:38):
so you just brought your full self to the sable.
I had no I didn't. I didn't know anything about
that stuff Garrison and even Robert talks about like I
just I didn't. I wasn't a part of that, Like,
I didn't know any of that until I started selling
album Now, once I started selling albums, then you start
getting booked at the churches that can afford to bring
an artist out. But I still wasn't an invited because
(06:00):
of the stuff I talked about to like the real
weird stuff now granted, some of the stuff was weird
that I got invited to. But and don't get me wrong,
the Black urban Church, the Innocent it is like lousy
with issues, like they're grossly homophobic, you know what I'm saying,
and patriarchal and some purity stuff. It's just different. It's
(06:23):
just not Republican, so it's different. But don't let me
pay no rose colored glasses here. I got all that
dust on me that I had to shake off. But
my album got pulled from the Christian bookstore. It was bad,
Like I found myself homeless in a lot of ways
because I stood on the business that I stood on.
(06:44):
But at the same time, you over here in this corner,
and none of this is if you've been on part
of the show from the beginning, none of this is
new to you. Like you know where I come from,
you know who propaganda is at all. What I'm trying
to say is, but what happened was what happened happened
was since we weren't and there are friends, Since we
(07:04):
weren't reach records, we weren't La Craze, we weren't like that,
we wasn't DC talk, we wasn't like that. We was
underground edgy, you know, we not playing winter Jams, like
we wasn't a part of none of that since we weren't,
you know, I'm totally like I'm with the gaze, like
I just wasn't. I just wasn't a part of that.
There was a certain type of masculinity or bravado or
(07:26):
punk rocketness that apparently attracted Doug Wilson to me, And
this nigga used to write me letters, like he wrote
me emails about I mean, this is not like I
put out a song called Precious Puritans, where I'm like,
I'm dragging the church for being so hung up on
the Puritans, Like I don't understand why you like them
so much? These slave owners, Like what is your thing?
(07:47):
Why y'all worshiped these people? You motherfuckers are racist? Like so,
I thought I was being very clear as to who
I was. Apparently he kind of liked I guess the
middle finger of it all that I it was just
who I was. Now I ain't know who this man was.
I couldn't point in no Moscow. I didn't know any
of this stuff. I knew his son, I knew his
son made movies. Right, I'm in a movie that his
(08:09):
son produced. It's a short film about it's called The
Hounds of Heaven. It's I mean, it's cool, right, I
ain't know it's daddy like that. But then when I
did meet his daddy, it turned out this one maya
Antenna's was wrong. I was talking revolution the way that
I talk revolution. Now, now you have to remember we
was in a time where this is pre Trump, so
(08:32):
a lot of the mask offedness was just not so
masked off. I kept my distance from a lot of
church folk because it was just so white. It was
just so white, and it was just so racist. So
I stayed away from a lot of stuff. But this
fool seemed different because he was talking some like some
fuck the system in the same way I was talking
(08:52):
fuck the system. But it turns out it wasn't the
same way. Nobody of all the like conferences, you know,
panels and stuff that I was getting booked on in
those early days, nobody asked me about like art, like
they all wanted to talk theology. Nobody was talking art.
Nobody was talking like or even just being like, look, man,
there's a dismantling of the system that needs to happen.
(09:14):
Like nobody was talking like that to me. That's stuff
I wanted to talk about. He came to me about art,
about wordsmith and about like changing culture and being a
leader to your community, and I was like, all right,
word I spoke at they school because again he was
asking me about hip hop, like how hip hop can
be a change agent for the culture, and I was like,
hip hop already is. And then I left it alone
(09:37):
because it was like it was just a gig. I
just was like, I ain't no way in the world
I'm gonna spend more time in Moscow, Idaho than I
need to. What's crazy is people's capacity to just be
kind like me showed me kindness Like to me, it
was just oh, you know, like that's what it seemed
like to me, nigga. Next thing I know, this article
come out, he calling himself a neo Confederate. I was like, man,
(09:59):
what bruh talking about? The Civil War was about states rights?
That's first time I heard anybody say something like that.
And I'm like, a man as smart as this man is,
because this man read a lot. I was like, I
can't believe this man think that whatever I did it
was it was inconsequential to me. I was like, I
didn't ask weird, Like I said, my hommie the hummy
valchist for him, I guess his son's cool. He got
(10:21):
other friends like I just I come from an area
where a lot of times you got questionable friend But
it is verifiable on wax that when times got when
it was time to do some dirt, they sent me home.
You realize you probably shouldn't be kicking it with this boy.
No mo no, the nigga tripp it like what you
are to say, and then trump ate the church. And
for me, when trump ate the church, that was the
(10:43):
beginning of the end for me, Like that's when all
of my like Christian bookings kind of stopped. You know,
there was a time where I was like ready to
punt it all, you know, like none of this is
worth it. And then I had to go through a
time where you know, I had to look back and say, Okay, well,
what was that cream, that that gumbo that got my
ancestors through them slave ships, that survived them nigga quarters.
(11:05):
You know what I'm saying? What was that again, that
beloved city that's part of my culture, that part of
you that says like, again, that's non dualistic. I can't
tell you what it is, but I know that I've
experienced a beauty that I don't know if that's a
bearded man in the sky. I know I've experienced the
type of joy and belonging that I would wish forever.
I don't know what to call it. I just know
(11:28):
I still get up in the morning and say my prayers.
You feel me. But as far as like this, the
evangelical space, I mean, I had been gone, so I
ain't know what was going on. Next thing. I know
this nigga on Senn. Oh lord, y'all ain't tell me.
I had not checked in in a while. The man
(11:50):
was just completely off my radar. I had no idea
what had happened to them short of my homie that
lived out there. And it's not like the signs weren't
there bruh talking some strangeness. I have an uncle, my
uncle Ken Jones, who is preacher down there in Miami.
My uncle Ken was like, well, I know him as
(12:10):
Uncle Ray. But my uncle Ken was like, nephew, watch
out for homeboy. And I was like all right, But again,
like for me, I'm like I mean you. I ain't
really ask him. Now. He was talking to me about
hip hop, so I talked to him about hip hop.
All that to say. I don't know where my aunt
Tennis was, so listen. Obviously I don't co sign. There's
no skeleton you finla fine about your boy? I had
(12:32):
no idea this man was talking the way he was talking. Okay,
let that man speak for himself. Let your boy speak
for myself. So before you be like, is this you nigga? Yeah,
I was there. That was twenty thirteen, y'all. I ain't no.
I just try to get on some stage, just damn.
(12:52):
I've always had the attitude of like, I only have
my music, so if you book me, you gonna get
what I do. So I thought, what if you inviting
me out? You know what it is with me? Anyway?
Is there somebody in your past who talking crazy? Now? Okay,
did you know they was gonna talk crazy like that?
(13:13):
I ain't know who was going. So look your boy.
I was like, well, I'll be well. I saw that
man on the news. I was like, man, what the
hell did he just say? Right? When you talk? When
you listen, you listening to somebody that you know full
of shit named Pete headass heck said, and he quoting Doug,
(13:33):
I was like, okay, wait mine, now, wait minute, are
we talking about the same I'm sorry, what like, hold
up now you're talking about the dude of moscout the
Hollies Pressler like what this way he out? Man, it's
like my Epstein file. I'm like, Nigga, I ain't no,
I ain't know. That's what was having it on the
other side of the paull anyway, that being with me
Media. Okay, story time, I actually knew Doug Wilson, one
of the Hubbies, moved out there to be a part
of the whole joint, and he's guta moved out there
be still friend. But listen, I was unaware of the
(00:24):
extent for which this man was saying exactly what he meant. Okay,
my antenna's failed me fifteen years ago, all right, that
being with me? Did I ever tell y'all my Bill
(00:54):
Gates story? I stood that, nigga long story, short story
story long. I went to this event for the Gates
Foundation that I had no idea that the name Gates
Foundation and Bill and Melinda Gates were distant planets. I
had no idea they were the same thing. So get invited.
I get a call or a text a few days
later from apparently Bill and Melinda's assistant that was saying
(01:18):
they were so impressed with me and wanted to meet me,
and they was going to send a fight for me
for dinner. Now I'm sitting in front of my daughter's
ballet class like waiting for her to finish her little
dance practice. Ain't nowhere in the world. I'm finna pack
a bag, go to the Airport just to go to
dinner in Seattle, and even it's in being in Seattle,
I still haven't connected the dots that the Gates Foundation
(01:39):
is Bill and Melinda Gates. For some reason, the math
wasn't mathing, so I just don't respond. I'm like, man,
I'm not finna, just like I was like, all right, man,
I'll see what's up, and I just didn't reply. It
wasn't until many years later somebody went, yeah, Bill and
Melinda Gates as in Bill Gates Gates Foundation. I was like, oh,
so when he said he was going to send the flight,
(02:00):
he meant he was going to send like a plane,
like he was going to fly, like he was gonna
like literally fly me up. And then a couple of
years after that, maybe four years after that, I run
into the dude at the Moultloma Whiskey Library in Portland,
and I was like, yo, uh, remember you you called
me and asked me you had no idea who Bill
(02:23):
Gates was. I just I never they were onto differ
I would have never connected the dots. I was like,
what did y'all think when I did? He goes, we
just thought you was the coolest dude ever like this
use fool just used to stood up Bill Gates. I was, like,
I mean, I was unintentionally a revolutionary in that scenario.
The point I'm trying to say is sometimes as plugged
(02:44):
in and tapped in as I be, sometimes my antennas
failed me. I just don't be knowing. Now. Now some
of y'all may know my origin story as a Christian rapper.
Now when I say Christian rapper, I know y'all think
it's something that probably if you don't know my past
is not we are not saying the same thing. Okay.
(03:05):
Like I said before, I no part of my past
was conservative, even when we was Christians. I come from
inner city urban church. So when we talk about impacting
the culture, I'm thinking beloved community. I'm thinking, you know,
the ten points program of the Black Panthers, So I'm
(03:26):
thinking revolution in that sense, radical generosity, loving one's neighbor,
esteeming others higher than themselves, having empathy for those who
are suffering. There's a chapter inside of my terrorform book
called y'all got it from the Homi Nish called institutionalized neighborliness.
So Jesus's thing is like you post to love your neighbor.
(03:48):
Love God and neighbor. Those are the two highest goods
you could have. Then what's the most effective way to
love the most amount of neighbors? And it's voting in
good laws. That's like concerning the welfare and well being
of the people around you. I believe in a pluralistic
society because the person you have been listening to on
this show is the person I kind of always being granted,
(04:11):
my faith has evolved in ways that my mama may
not be proud of. But this where we are right now.
At the end of the day. Your boys are leftists,
anarchist leftists, like, look, that's where I'm at. But none
of which as far as I was concerned. I mean,
I feel like I don't see the I don't see that.
I don't got the dualistic thinking that like the American
(04:35):
government gotta be Christian, or that we can't coexist with
people that don't think the same as us. I just don't.
I ain't come from that. I didn't come from even
when I was really deep into the evangelical world, I
just didn't come from that. Like I have a nothing
about my church background would end at Donald Trump as
just I just didn't come from that tradition. Having said that,
(04:56):
the traditions that ended at Donald Trump were the one
that ran off the festival that controlled all the flows
of music and commerce right now, since I'm not from
a Bible belt city, I would not have known of
any of the things that was happening now when I
(05:16):
started doing music, since I come from Tonal Rat's la
underground battle rap, we were very aggressive. Like the idea
of being a Christian rapper was as weird as the
idea of being a Muslim rapper. You was just a rap,
like and you rapped about what you rapped about. You
were who you were, Like, you just kept it real,
(05:38):
so you just brought your full self to the sable.
I had no I didn't. I didn't know anything about
that stuff Garrison and even Robert talks about like I
just I didn't. I wasn't a part of that, Like,
I didn't know any of that until I started selling
album Now, once I started selling albums, then you start
getting booked at the churches that can afford to bring
an artist out. But I still wasn't an invited because
(06:00):
of the stuff I talked about to like the real
weird stuff now granted, some of the stuff was weird
that I got invited to. But and don't get me wrong,
the Black urban Church, the Innocent it is like lousy
with issues, like they're grossly homophobic, you know what I'm saying,
and patriarchal and some purity stuff. It's just different. It's
(06:23):
just not Republican, so it's different. But don't let me
pay no rose colored glasses here. I got all that
dust on me that I had to shake off. But
my album got pulled from the Christian bookstore. It was bad,
Like I found myself homeless in a lot of ways
because I stood on the business that I stood on.
(06:44):
But at the same time, you over here in this corner,
and none of this is if you've been on part
of the show from the beginning, none of this is
new to you. Like you know where I come from,
you know who propaganda is at all. What I'm trying
to say is, but what happened was what happened happened
was since we weren't and there are friends, Since we
(07:04):
weren't reach records, we weren't La Craze, we weren't like that,
we wasn't DC talk, we wasn't like that. We was
underground edgy, you know, we not playing winter Jams, like
we wasn't a part of none of that since we weren't,
you know, I'm totally like I'm with the gaze, like
I just wasn't. I just wasn't a part of that.
There was a certain type of masculinity or bravado or
(07:26):
punk rocketness that apparently attracted Doug Wilson to me, And
this nigga used to write me letters, like he wrote
me emails about I mean, this is not like I
put out a song called Precious Puritans, where I'm like,
I'm dragging the church for being so hung up on
the Puritans, Like I don't understand why you like them
so much? These slave owners, Like what is your thing?
(07:47):
Why y'all worshiped these people? You motherfuckers are racist? Like so,
I thought I was being very clear as to who
I was. Apparently he kind of liked I guess the
middle finger of it all that I it was just
who I was. Now I ain't know who this man was.
I couldn't point in no Moscow. I didn't know any
of this stuff. I knew his son, I knew his
son made movies. Right, I'm in a movie that his
(08:09):
son produced. It's a short film about it's called The
Hounds of Heaven. It's I mean, it's cool, right, I
ain't know it's daddy like that. But then when I
did meet his daddy, it turned out this one maya
Antenna's was wrong. I was talking revolution the way that
I talk revolution. Now, now you have to remember we
was in a time where this is pre Trump, so
(08:32):
a lot of the mask offedness was just not so
masked off. I kept my distance from a lot of
church folk because it was just so white. It was
just so white, and it was just so racist. So
I stayed away from a lot of stuff. But this
fool seemed different because he was talking some like some
fuck the system in the same way I was talking
(08:52):
fuck the system. But it turns out it wasn't the
same way. Nobody of all the like conferences, you know,
panels and stuff that I was getting booked on in
those early days, nobody asked me about like art, like
they all wanted to talk theology. Nobody was talking art.
Nobody was talking like or even just being like, look, man,
there's a dismantling of the system that needs to happen.
(09:14):
Like nobody was talking like that to me. That's stuff
I wanted to talk about. He came to me about art,
about wordsmith and about like changing culture and being a
leader to your community, and I was like, all right,
word I spoke at they school because again he was
asking me about hip hop, like how hip hop can
be a change agent for the culture, and I was like,
hip hop already is. And then I left it alone
(09:37):
because it was like it was just a gig. I
just was like, I ain't no way in the world
I'm gonna spend more time in Moscow, Idaho than I
need to. What's crazy is people's capacity to just be
kind like me showed me kindness Like to me, it
was just oh, you know, like that's what it seemed
like to me, nigga. Next thing I know, this article
come out, he calling himself a neo Confederate. I was like, man,
(09:59):
what bruh talking about? The Civil War was about states rights?
That's first time I heard anybody say something like that.
And I'm like, a man as smart as this man is,
because this man read a lot. I was like, I
can't believe this man think that whatever I did it
was it was inconsequential to me. I was like, I
didn't ask weird, Like I said, my hommie the hummy
valchist for him, I guess his son's cool. He got
(10:21):
other friends like I just I come from an area
where a lot of times you got questionable friend But
it is verifiable on wax that when times got when
it was time to do some dirt, they sent me home.
You realize you probably shouldn't be kicking it with this boy.
No mo no, the nigga tripp it like what you
are to say, and then trump ate the church. And
for me, when trump ate the church, that was the
(10:43):
beginning of the end for me, Like that's when all
of my like Christian bookings kind of stopped. You know,
there was a time where I was like ready to
punt it all, you know, like none of this is
worth it. And then I had to go through a
time where you know, I had to look back and say, Okay, well,
what was that cream, that that gumbo that got my
ancestors through them slave ships, that survived them nigga quarters.
(11:05):
You know what I'm saying? What was that again, that
beloved city that's part of my culture, that part of
you that says like, again, that's non dualistic. I can't
tell you what it is, but I know that I've
experienced a beauty that I don't know if that's a
bearded man in the sky. I know I've experienced the
type of joy and belonging that I would wish forever.
I don't know what to call it. I just know
(11:28):
I still get up in the morning and say my prayers.
You feel me. But as far as like this, the
evangelical space, I mean, I had been gone, so I
ain't know what was going on. Next thing. I know
this nigga on Senn. Oh lord, y'all ain't tell me.
I had not checked in in a while. The man
(11:50):
was just completely off my radar. I had no idea
what had happened to them short of my homie that
lived out there. And it's not like the signs weren't
there bruh talking some strangeness. I have an uncle, my
uncle Ken Jones, who is preacher down there in Miami.
My uncle Ken was like, well, I know him as
(12:10):
Uncle Ray. But my uncle Ken was like, nephew, watch
out for homeboy. And I was like all right, But again,
like for me, I'm like I mean you. I ain't
really ask him. Now. He was talking to me about
hip hop, so I talked to him about hip hop.
All that to say. I don't know where my aunt
Tennis was, so listen. Obviously I don't co sign. There's
no skeleton you finla fine about your boy? I had
(12:32):
no idea this man was talking the way he was talking. Okay,
let that man speak for himself. Let your boy speak
for myself. So before you be like, is this you nigga? Yeah,
I was there. That was twenty thirteen, y'all. I ain't no.
I just try to get on some stage, just damn.
(12:52):
I've always had the attitude of like, I only have
my music, so if you book me, you gonna get
what I do. So I thought, what if you inviting
me out? You know what it is with me? Anyway?
Is there somebody in your past who talking crazy? Now? Okay,
did you know they was gonna talk crazy like that?
(13:13):
I ain't know who was going. So look your boy.
I was like, well, I'll be well. I saw that
man on the news. I was like, man, what the
hell did he just say? Right? When you talk? When
you listen, you listening to somebody that you know full
of shit named Pete headass heck said, and he quoting Doug,
(13:33):
I was like, okay, wait mine, now, wait minute, are
we talking about the same I'm sorry, what like, hold
up now you're talking about the dude of moscout the
Hollies Pressler like what this way he out? Man, it's
like my Epstein file. I'm like, Nigga, I ain't no,
I ain't know. That's what was having it on the
other side of the paull anyway, that being with me
Host
Prop
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.