April 30, 2025 • 44 mins
Jason is joined by Carter Rodriguez of The Chase Down Podcast to preview the Cleveland Cavaliers and Indiana Pacers second round series in the NBA playoffs after each team advanced over the Miami Heat and Milwaukee Bucks. They discuss all angles of the series including Darius Garland's health, Donovan Mitchell's shot making, Evan Mobley's versatility, Jarrett Allen's switchability, Tyrese Haliburton's playmaking, and Pascal Siakam's post skills.
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(02:33):
All right, welcome to tonight. You're at the volume heavy Wednesday.
Everybody hope loth you guys are having a great week.
Today we are going to do a deep dive series
preview on a series that is going to be between
two very interesting and somewhat similar teams in the Indiana
Pacers and the Cleveland Cavaliers. I could think of nobody
better than our favorite person who covers the calves in
(02:54):
the league, mister Carter Rodriguez. You guys might recognize him.
He's been on the show a few times before. Very
busy man this time year, as are all of us,
and he was kind enough to donate some of his
time to help us get a little bit more familiar
with this matchup. Carter, First of all, how you doing man?
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Doing good? I love coming on here. I think you
do such a good job covering I know our our listeners.
You know there are national guys who get on on
the list so to speak, that people that they get
grumpy with you are luckily in the good graces of
many of our of our of our listeners for your
coverage of the team. So I've always appreciated your perspective
(03:31):
on hoops.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Glad to be on.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I really appreciate that. I'm glad to hear that we're
having some support over at the Chase Down. You guys
have done amazing work over the years. It's been fun
to watch your guys' pod grow. So just kind of
big picture, I've been talking about this on my show,
like I think that there are some similarities between the
Pacers and the Calves in a league that we have
so many different types of styles. You've watched these like
(03:54):
slow down, methodical, big and strong teams. You see these
like matchup attacking, high pick and role heliocentric style teams.
You've got these very driven, kick oriented, spacing oriented teams
like Boston, and then we've got these like speed equal
opportunity type of teams. And what I found fascinating is
(04:15):
you have some similarities in the way that both of
these teams like to pressure the ball and they like
to try to force turnovers. And get out in transition.
Both of these teams can struggle a little bit with
defensive rebounding because they have some perimeter size shortcomings or
interior strength kind of shortcomings. From time to time. Both
teams are very much like everyone's free. Like, you're going
(04:36):
to see Max Struce look to put the ball on
the floor and make plays or take aggressive catch and
shoot shots. You're going to see you know, Aaron Nesmith,
you know, rip through a close out and pull back
dribble and take a tough off the dribble jump shot
in the mid range. You're going to see everybody on
both teams look to be aggressive. It's very equal opportunity.
A lot of games where you look at the box
score and there's six dudes in double figures for both
(04:59):
of these teams. So I think that there is a
lot of similarities between these two teams. Has this been
something that you've noticed throughout this season? If you what
has been like your like fan perspective as a team
in the Eastern Conference with legitimate championship aspirations watching the
Pacers from Afar, Well, I just.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Think they're I think they're a really really good team.
I think I'm probably higher on this Pacers team than
most of my peers in the Cavs community. I just
I was in on them to start the year. My my,
my beloved co host, Justin Rohan was much much lower
on them.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
They finally won him over.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
You know, I just think I think they I think
much like this Cavs offense, especially this year, there's kind
of been you know, the offenses can be so electric
and so exciting that sometimes it belies some of the
ability on the other end of the floor for both
of these teams, you know, the ability to pressure the ball,
(05:57):
the ability to play big. You know, this is another
two big team.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
You know, I got to feel really good about my
my Cavaliers being trendsetters with all these two big land
ups popping up all over the all over the league.
But like, you know, I just think they can play
a lot of defensive styles. You know, they despite having
you know, a perceived week we clink at the top
(06:22):
of the chain and you know, Darius and and tyresee defensively.
You know, I do think there are real differences. You know,
I think in terms of perimeter shot creation, Indy is
just not you know, they don't got a Donovan Mitchell,
you know, like Haliburton can go through stretches of that,
but I don't think that's like his favorite way to play.
(06:45):
And like I think like they lean a little more
egalitarian than the Calves in that sense, like you know,
when Robert meets the Road, it's gonna be a lot
of Donovan Mitchell for the Calves. And similarly on the
other side of the floor, I don't think the Calves
have a blender in the post like Pascal Siakam. So
you know, I do think like there are similarities in
(07:08):
the build, especially like in how these teams have kind
of come up small market, mostly homegrown, mostly you know,
organically built or you know, really smartly built piece by
piece as opposed to like one cataclysmic sea change type
of you know, a headline grabbing move. But I do
think there are different in ways that either team I
(07:32):
think is actually gonna have a hard time matching each other.
Like I I the joke I've kind of keep making
after two, you know, relative laugh for a series in
the first round that that ridiculous comeback last night nonwithstanding,
is that is that I kind of feel like both
teams are going to be shell shocked in the first quarter.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
On offense, We're.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Like, wait, you you can do something to make our
our offense harder, because just neither team really had any resistance.
I mean, Andy was assisting on like seventy six percent
of their field goals at one point. It was like
just an outrageous like twelve fourteen percent higher than number two.
In the playoffs, the Calves obviously posted the best offensive
(08:13):
series in the history of the sport by offensive rating
against Miami. I do think both these teams are like, oh, wait, okay,
this is actually what playoff hoops was supposed to be.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yeah, you know, there are these obvious differences. I'm glad
you pointed out the Mitchell Siakam piece because there is
like a certain amount of Tyrese Haliburton through his high
level playmaking and Darius Garland through his just relentless dribble
penetration will start the engine, so to speak, for both
of these teams in the half court. But the Pacers
(08:45):
have like this low post matchup attacking option that they
can go to, and you also see like a two
man game element with him in Tyrese Haliburton, and then
with the Calves you have this as we've seen, particularly
in the two Celtics wins that they had this year,
Like in Crunch Time, they have a guy that can
pick on a matchup and just create his own shot
over and over and over again from the perimeter, which
(09:07):
Tires can do. But it's as you mentioned, it's a
lot more of like he likes to dribble, drive against
switches and either kick to shooters or try to finish
around the rim. It's not necessarily a mix it up,
high level, over the top shot making type of approach.
I love the part that you said earlier, just talking
about how both of these teams are gonna kind of
(09:29):
have like a certain amount of success against each other.
Like there's certainly a challenge in the sense that Cleveland
and Indiana present more resistance defensively than each other. But
I do think both of these teams will score on
each other. I think that there's a rhythm element to where,
like I think we will see points in this series
where it's like, WHOA, the Pacers are in a really
(09:49):
good groove right now, or oh, the Calves are in
a really good groove right now, manifest in different ways,
Like the Calves are very much a higher volume three
point shooting team that has multiple dudes on the floor
that will take contested threes off the catch.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
When they're there.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Max Strews and DeAndre Hunter's tested three point shooting in
the Heat series was like eye popping, like it was amazing.
Whereas the Pacers don't have as many guys who will
shoot off the catch when they're being chased off the line.
It's much more of like a close out attacking. They'll
take a little bit more in the mid range off
the ball. The Calves will take mid range and pick
and roll from their main guys. But you'll see, like
(10:29):
you know, guys driving closeouts and taken in the mid range.
So it'll manifest in different ways. But I do think
both teams will be able to score on each other.
You look like you were about to say something. Did
you want to jump in Yeah, I'm just gonna say yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
I think, you know, I think on both sides of
the ball, it's just going to be a lot. I
think it's it's going to be harder work for these
defenses too. Again, these seems are just better than who
they played in the first round, So, like I know,
it's like not a crazy it's a relatively obvious statement
if you pull the camera back enough. But like, you know,
I think for the Cavs, you know, one thing that
(10:58):
I'm really keeping an eye on guarding the Pacers is
Siakham because this is a team that under Kenny Atkinson switched.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Way, way, way way more than they did under JB. Bickerstaff.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
And you can do that against the Miami Heat, even
against like a Bam out of Bayo, who's obviously grown
a lot as an offensive player, but like still to
this day, we'll like have a favorable matchup and won't
demand the ball, you know, we'll kind of fill the
dunker spot and kind of wait for a duck in
as opposed to like you put Sam Merrill on a
switch on Pascal Siakam. Siakam is going to find his
(11:33):
way to the ball, He's going to get kind of
the spin cycle going, he's going to draw fouls, he's
going to make you send help, and then you get
into rotation. I mean, Miami just could not break the
Calves defensive shell. That was all four games. It was
just you know, very I mean, on very very few
occasions did the Calves even have to be disciplined in
their rotations because.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
They were not in rotation.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
You know, I think I think Indy is going to
be much better, uh situated to do that, primarily with Pascal,
uh you know. And then it takes me to a
thing that the Cabs didn't break out too much against
the Heat, but they broke out a ton of the
regular season, which is how often are they going to
go zone? Because if there's one thing that makes post
(12:19):
catches difficult and Matt mismatch hunting difficult, it's a it's
a good old two three zone. In one of the
games the Cavs beat the Pacers earlier in the year
that see I come cook them in the entire first half.
He only had like three attempts in the second half
because they just zoned him up and said, hey, we're
not going to just let you catch it on the
block and bump bump, spin shoot. So like that schematic
(12:44):
question is going to be really interesting to me, is
are they going to go zone to try to block
off the Pascal post up, you know, blender because he
even kicking good shots on Mobile and Alan, you know,
like he's he's job, he's a great player. He's done
a nice job even against our best defenders. And if
you go zone, does that open up a three point machine?
(13:07):
You know, as you mentioned, they're not the best contested
three point shooters, but like it's a pretty good open
three point generating machine. And zone you are dancing with
that a little bit.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
The Pacers will burn you with wide open three point
shooting there with that core five man lineup, there's not
really a guy in that group that if you left open,
is just going to consistently miss. And like the big
one is Nie Smith. Like Nie Smith working up into
the mid forties just makes him an entirely different type
of player than he was in the past. And the
you know, the piece with Siakam like on the film.
(13:40):
And actually, let me just i we'll start with the
Pacers on offense here in a minute. Let me quickly
go through our series metrics, just so that everyone knows
this is basically what happened during the regular season. There
were guys in and out of the lineup NonStop. Jared
Allen played in all four games, but no one else did.
Andrew Nemhard and Miles Turner were the only starters to
play in all four for Indie Tyres. Haliburton only played
in two games. The only game where most of the
(14:01):
starters played against each other was their first matchup back
on January twelfth. It's a very weird game. The Calves
controlled the game for about two and a half quarters
and then the indie bench group just beat the shit
out of the Calves. And it was kind of a
weird game because Ty Jerome was out, so it was
like back in the Karis Lavert days, and you know,
Karris Lavert not as just not as gifted as a
(14:22):
backup guard. The Calves completely lost control during that stretch.
The Pacers brought a bunch of full court pressure too,
and the Calves kind of just fell apart in that stretch.
It kind of felt a lot like regular season basketball,
like it was just it was one of those games.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
Well, I'll say, dude, that is that remains the one
thing I kind of keep looking at the Calves for
in terms of, like, you know, a thing that they
just have consistently demonstrated they don't love dealing with is
ball pressure. You know, big physical, you know, like everyone
thinks it's long wings, It's not long wings. It is
(14:56):
dudes who get into your chest and make a Arius
and Donovan back up like they love a drop coverage, dude,
Like they love They love, you know, being able to
survey and use their in and out dribbles and operate
in the tight spaces that the drop affords them.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
They love that.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
They do not like it when they're backing up, especially
Darius because you know his size and athletic limitations. You know,
it's hard for him if he's not turning the corner consistently.
So I thought they passed a really nice test in
the first round Davion. They they tried that with Davion, Mitchell,
Pelo Larson, guys who tried to beat them up a
(15:37):
little bit more like that was clearly something Spoe went
to from like Game two onward didn't matter.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
So like like easy.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Mode test passed gets a little bit harder when it's
Niee Smith and nim Hard and McConnell, uh, you know,
being nasty and physical with them.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
You know.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
So that's one thing I'm really keeping an eye on
is the paces are going to probably pick up full court,
would be my guess for big stretches of this series.
I think they're going to try to hide Haliburton on Strus,
on Hunter on anyone who's playing the three, and it's
going to be a matter of is the pressure going
(16:16):
to stop the Cavs offense from flowing? Didn't work for
didn't work for Miami, But like the personnel is just
better bam out of bio accepted in Indy.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
So yeah, that January twelve game was a great example
of what you're talking about. They were also playing up
in passing lanes off of the ball pressure too, so
like as Garland and Mitchell would try to move the
ball up the floor, there was some turnovers in those
sorts of situations.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Go ahead, But I do think this is interesting, Like
that's where like the physical limitations of a Darius or
Adonoman come in, because like if you're backpedaling, it's hard
to put pace on those passes. Oh no, like it's
really really hard to. You know, Like Darius, if he's
going to make a cross court pass, he's not Luke
or Lebron, like he's got to step into it. So
(17:03):
if all his momentum is going that way and he's
trying to get at the opposite direction, that's where you
get kind of those ducks that Indy can go pick
off playing the passing lanes as aggressively as they were.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
We saw Jarris Walker have some success to on the
Calves guards with just some pressure and back pressure and
poking away at the basketball. There was definitely some interesting
stuff in that game. But then at the same time,
we had another game later in the season where the
Pacers played all their guys and the Calves sent a
skeleton crew down to Indy and they almost beat them anyway,
(17:37):
And a big part of that is ty Jerome is
just incredible. And when we get to Calves on offense,
I want to focus on that for a minute, because
there's like a level that the Calves are at right
now that is even higher than they were at any
point during the regular season. We did get a look
at some of the ways they were defending Tyre's Halliburton,
mainly just that Jared Allen wasn't coming too aggressively up
to the level they were a little bit more willing
(17:57):
to concede pull up threes to Halliburton. Haliburton's in a
really good groove right now, which is going to be
the first thing that we'll get to. But metrics just
for everybody. The Pacers ended up going three and one
in the season series, but they had a negative net rating.
They had a one ozh six offensive rating, the Calves
at a one oh nine offensive rating, So the Calves
actually outscored him by three point three points per one
hundred possessions in the four matchups. The Pacers did win
(18:19):
the rebounding battle by small margin, grabbing fifty one point
three percent of available rebounds, but once again, not really
anything worth digging too far into there. I found that
to be the case in almost all of my series previews.
You're really just looking at like individual matchups, what it
looks like. Oh, here's a few possessions of Siakam and
Mobilely going at each other.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
This is what it.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Looks like like that kind of stuff. But let's start
with the Pacers on offense. And so I want to
start with the idea of the Halliburton pick and roll,
so it it will manifest in a bunch of different ways,
a lot of him two man game with Siakam, where
teams will often look to switch and attack in the post,
like we talked about earlier. But I want to start
with the Tyres Halliburton, Miles Turner pick and pop, which
(18:59):
is the foundation concept of what makes the Pacers offense work.
So how do you think the Calves will go about
trying to contain the tyres Haliburton pick and roll.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
I think this is going to be you know, I've
spent a lot of time of this appearance so far
talking about the things I think Andy is really good at,
because I do think it's going to be swept under
the rug. I think talking about a rude awakening going
from a you know, sometimes Dame Lillard Brook Lopez pick
and roll or an aj Green Brook Lopez pick and
(19:29):
roll defensive pair, to like it's going to be Max Druce,
it's gonna be Isaac Okoro, it's going to be DeAndre
Hunter uh and Evan Mogle or Jared Allen, and those
guys are going to close out so much better. They're
going to be much They're going to feel much safer
switching the Miles Turner action. Like I I'm not sure,
(19:49):
but if you were, if you had asked me what
I thought, you know, Kenny's staff would say about uh
death by Miles Turner switch post ups. I think they're
pretty cool with that, you know. I just think like
that is not going to be a problem for them,
especially with how not strong Indie is on the offensive boards.
They were twenty ninth in the regular season. Like, if
(20:09):
you're getting a men shot attempt from you know, a
contested you know, twelve foot turnaround for Miles Turner, which
is kind of his preferred type of post up anyway, Like,
I think you're fine with that. I think even if
you do play it straight and you hedge and recover,
you know, the way Evan and Jarrett can close ground
is just so much better than Bobby Portis or Brook Lopez. Like,
(20:33):
I think that action is like not going to be
there for them as much as they wanted to be.
And like I think, and frankly, if you're the Pacers, you're,
in my opinion, you're kind of doing the Calves a
favor by not having Siakam in that screen almost every
time now, like and just kind of depending on Turner
(20:55):
as more of a spacer. That's kind of what I
would do if I were Indy, just because I just
think the Calves are really well equipped because they're not
going to have Darius on Tyres, They're not going to
have Donovan on Tyres. They're going to put their big, strong,
long wings on him. And like, I don't think Max
can hold up against Siakam, but he can hold his
(21:15):
ground a little bit in the switch and but against Turner,
like you kind of just got to be okay with
that and trust that your help is going to be good.
And I think the Calves help was so good in
Miami series. Like I know Miami played a very very
bad series, don't get me wrong, but like the timing
was so dialed in from them that I think you
can give up a short term disadvantage knowing that you're
(21:37):
burning clock, you're eating more like if the Calves are
making the pacers work into the bottom ten seconds of
the shot clock, the possessions kind of already a win.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
I think that the early the early portion of the
series will see less switching. I would especially early in games.
One of the things I noticed on film is Jared
Allen was very keyed on the pop. And what I
mean by that is like in instead of coming up
to the level where he's fully committing to basically being
two on the ball and conceding the pick and pop,
he's kind of making a judgment call based on how
(22:08):
the on ball defenders doing so if the on ball
defender is like fully compromised, then he'll jump over there
and help. But if he sees that the on ball
defenders in the position to flatten out the drive, he'll
kind of be more keyed up towards Miles Turner. To
your point, though, I think that action inevitably trends towards
switching and Jared Allen having to hold up on an
island against Tyreus Haliburton. Now, one of the things with
(22:31):
Tyres that made him kind of go through the spiral
that he went through over the previous year between the
start of last year to where he is now, was
he with the hamstring just didn't quite look very explosive
attacking switches on the perimeter. As we saw last night
against Giannis. There is a pretty important moment one, yeah, exactly,
(22:53):
and it was an example of what the tug of
war will look like.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
I think.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
I think a substantial part of the tug of war
will be can Tyrese Haliburton get dribble penetration against the
Cavs bigs in you know, ISO situations. But one of
the things that's interesting about India is like they do
not marry themselves to Tyrese Haliburton shot creation If it's
not what the game calls for. And so one of
the things that I think we could end up seeing,
to your point, is like a lot more of Siakam
(23:20):
action trying to get switches for Siakam to look to attack.
And then I would not be surprised. I would assume
that we're gonna end up seeing Donovan Mitchell guard Nemhard
and Garland end up guarding Nie Smith, because that would
be my Nie Smith is a little bit less of
a threat as a movement shooter, although Nie Smith has
(23:43):
a little bit more of a bag than I think
people give him credit for. But I think they'll be
more comfortable hedging and recovering with Garland out of Nie
Smith action than they would out of Nemhart action. But
don't be surprised if we end up seeing a little
bit more of Nemhart on the ball in this series
in the event that they view like they have a
better opportunity to get him going. He's a good drop
coverage player. He like last night, the first shot that
(24:06):
got everything going for them, and that's you know run
late in the game was him just coming off of
ball screen and pulling up a three from you know
thirty feet at the top of the key. Nem Hard
can play or a Nie Smith can Yeah, Nemhrd can play.
I get them all confused anyway. The ultimately, though, what
I see what I see happening is the Pacers, whether
it's through the Siakam post up double teams, which we
(24:27):
did see plenty of that in the regular season, where
the Calves tried to double Siakam out of the post,
or if it's Haliburton beating someone off the dribble, or
if it's Nie Smith bringing in or Nemhard bringing in
low manhelp. I do think rotation basketball would be much
more of a factor for the Calves in this series
than it was against the Heat. They will have to
fly around, they will have to make plays in rotation,
(24:47):
but that push and pull, it's all about how much
you get compromised that If Jared Allen can hold up
pretty well on switches, if the Calves guards can hold
up pretty well on switches against Theakam so they don't
have to as dramatically overhelp in those sorts of situations,
those are gonna be the kinds of things that have
a large impact on the quality of looks that the
(25:09):
Calves get that said, like, there is a flat out
like shot making piece to what the Calves do, which
is absolutely insane. And like, guys, they had a one
thirty six offensive rating in the first round. They had
a one eighteen half court offensive rating in the first round.
There half court offensive rating was better than what the
Boston Celtics posted overall in the offensive rating area in
(25:31):
the first round against a Heat last year. Yes, very
different team, but with Davion Mitchell and Andrew Wiggins out there,
it's a different type. There's some defenders out there that
they were just consistently compromising. It's shot making Ti Jerome
and Donovan Mitchell's off the dribble shot making in that
first round was absurd, Max Strus and DeAndre Hunter and
there over the top shot making in catch and shoot
(25:51):
situations was absurd. And so I think a big part
of it is going to be, like, if the Calves
shot making is there, there's not going to really be
much at the Pacers do to stop them. So let's
move to the Caves on offense. When we were talking
about specific specific actions that you think the Calves will
be leaning on as pet actions in the half court,
(26:12):
what are you looking at for the Calves in the
second round series.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Well, they were a lot more aggressive in picking at
weak points than I thought they were going to be
in that heat series. Like they've been a pretty like
we just run our offense the way we run it,
and we'll just keep attacking till you mess up. And
that was kind of their philosophy most of the regular season,
(26:36):
and like that still helped true, don't get me wrong,
Like the machine didn't stop worrying. But they were really mean,
Like they were really mean to Tyler Hero. They and
once they decided to stop being mean to Tyler Hero,
they got really mean to kill el Ware and started
really abusing him in space with with empty side pick
(26:57):
and rolls.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Jared Allen has kicked his ass man such a like.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Like I keep joking because like Jared's such a sweet
soul that I think people like don't don't think about
it this way, and like in general, like you know,
I think we can kind of flatten out that archetype
of like I'm a I'm an athletic vertical rim protecting,
finishing big that's my thing, you know, And I think
sometimes we really flatten out that archetype and kind of
(27:23):
assume everyone's about as good as each other, you know,
because like they're all doing the same basic job, but
like you don't really see how different that job can
be in terms of how effective you can be doing
it until you watch like Jared just abuse Kloware, like
with how he's spacing his pick and roll dives and
all that fun stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
I want to cut you off for a second here,
because this is something that that I feel victim too too.
That what you're making, what the point you're trying to make,
is very important, which is like people just like tie
Jared Allen into the same tier as like Nick Claxton
or like every other Robert Williams, Like, yeah, they're all
just like the same. It's like this And by the way,
(28:03):
I am admitting guilt here, I personally underrated Jared Allen
coming into this stretch. I viewed him as just another
one of these dudes who can defend and drop, do
a little bit of switching and can be a vertical
spacer as he's on the role. And it's like, it's
so much more complicated than that. I watched Jared Allen
kick the shit out of some really good players this
year and had to head matchups, and it's the relentless
(28:27):
rim running that was the big thing that he kept
getting behind kellel Ware Like he just kept getting behind him,
and that was really the problem was kelll just like
kept getting into position where he was in a drop,
but he still wasn't able to account for the role man,
which is like, it's the whole purpose of the job
is don't let the roller behind you the worst of
both worlds exactly, and so like he'll do that. Jared
(28:50):
Allen is like the type of release valve that you
get from an Isaiah Hartenstein as a short range shot
maker in terms of the types of little floaters and
pushots that he can make. He is an ass kicker
on the glass. And then the big thing is is
on defense. He has become such a gifted switch defender
that it unlocks so many different things for them defensively.
And like I had to have my own little personal
(29:11):
wake up call with Jared Allen this year where I'm like,
this guy is not a league average replacement starting level center.
He's in that upper tier of centers in this league.
Maybe not in the same level as the guys at
the top, but he's in that next tier below them,
and that really is a talent piece that I think
just gets consistently overrated with the Cavs. But anyway, you
go back to what your YEA, Well, it's.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
Because it's not a bag related an understanding of where
you are in space, and it's a coordination when you
catch the ball, you know, you know, being able to
take a pocket pass at your knees and not break
your stride on the on your dive to the rim.
Like it's all these little like game within a game
type of types of things for him, And like that
(29:52):
is where I think on offense, I think the Cavs
this is going.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
To be a great series for the Cavs bigs.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
You know, I think Siakam's taking a couple of steps
back as a defender as he's gotten a little bit older.
You know, he went you know, he started his career
as the defender, you know, chaos agent. I think he's
just a little not bad by any means, but a
little worse. And like I just think Turner is going
from a series where it's kind of tailor made for him,
where he's just way his footspeed is just way better
(30:17):
than Brooke and he's way more physical and just straight
up better than Bobby Portis, who's a player. I don't love,
to be honest, I just don't think crazy highly of
even though you know, I know he's been helpful for
them and in big moments too, Like now he's going
to have to not only protect the rim against you know,
(30:39):
the relentless rim pressure of the Tiger Romes, the Dariuses
and the Donovans of the world, but also not let
them get behind him, to your point of, like you know,
so like I wonder if they're going to try to
hedge in show and try to do that because like switching,
I don't know if I don't know if switching is
the best idea for them.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Don't think Turner is gonna be able to switch. I
think that that's the interesting part. Like I think the
Pacers actually have a little bit more playmaking talent in
my opinion in terms of like overall passing talent. But
I think that the calves are going to be able
to compromise the Pacers more at the point of attack
because of that big issue, which is like to your point,
like it's just an entirely different animal in the front
(31:21):
court that he's dealing with in this case, it's just
going from you know, Kyle Kuzma to to Evan Mobley
is just an entirely different animal.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
You know. Yeah, I just think I just think, like ideally,
you know, I mean, I just think nim Hard Nie
Smith's job is gonna it's one just gonna be really
important in this series. I feel like they're probably like
who I'm most keyed in on in terms of Indie's
ability to keep this close. Like if they're fighting over
these if they're fighting through these screens and staying connected
(31:53):
to the back of the hip of Darius and Donovan
and Tie, that is so much different than it if
they're getting wiped out. I just think the Caps are
going to get a wide open look.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
That's the series right there.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
What you're talking about is the series because stay Van
Gundhi did a really nice job of breaking this down
when he was discussing the uh uh oh No, I
think it was actually zach Low. I think it was Zachlo.
I think I was listening to Zachlo the other day.
Did a beautiful job of explaining like why the Drew
holiday trade was so damaging to the Bucks, and it
was because in order to run the types of coverages
that involve traditional bigs, meaning like not switching, but at
(32:27):
the level coverages or drop coverages, things along those lines.
You have to stay attached to the ball handler. You
have to as soon as that piece falls off, your
defense is going to get cut to pieces. Turner will
get destroyed in space. So to your point, the dynamic
of the ball pressure of Kniesmith and Nemhard, how would
you if you were coaching the pacers, how would you
match up those two?
Speaker 4 (32:47):
On Garland and Mitchell, I'm doing I'm going nim Hard
on Darius because I think he is the slightly nastier,
pushy er grab ear of the defenders, at least from
what I watched. I won't pretend to be like, oh,
hard core pacers expert year, but like I think, I
think the nastier, uh more physical guy on Darius is
(33:08):
probably the way i'd go. And Nie Smith just like,
just do your job, stay and stay connected, do your best, fight,
be tough and physical. But like you know, I think
Donovan also just gets the line a little better than
Darius does, you know, So like the pushy grabby stuff,
Donovan's got a little bit better at the at the
grift game, uh than than Darius, But I mean it's
(33:29):
gonna be I just think those guys are gonna really
gonna swing the series on both ends. Like because like
to your point, on the other side, I know we're
talking Cavs offense, nim Hart is gonna have to go
beat up Donovan or Darius.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
One of those guys gonna have to do damage. That's
that's an that's an important part of this too. The
there there was some nem Hart spent some time on
Mitchell in the regular season, and Mitchell was able to
get separation against him easily. But this we've seen all
the way back since the Brunson series last year. Like
there's no doubt that uh uh that Nie Smith is
a little bit vulnerable to over the top shot making
(34:03):
because he's a little bit shorter or Nemhard, I should say,
Nie Smith is a bigger, better athlete, and so I
actually think that makes sense to match him up with
Mitchell in terms of being able to get better contests
on his pull up jump shots. But again, that's gonna
be the The point you're making is important. The ball
pressure matchup on both ends of the floor is going
(34:23):
to be absolutely key, and whether it's on pacers, on offense,
Nemhard being able to consistently compromise a guy like Donovan Mitchell,
or if it's on the other end of the floor
and it's like Mitchell keeps getting don keeps getting penetration
against Nie Smith, or Garland keeps getting penetration against Nemhart.
Those are going to be the starts of all of
(34:43):
this because when the teams get into their flow, neither
team is going to be able to stop each other.
Once they get into their flow, it's gonna be who
can stop the team from getting into the flow as
often and.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
Who can crack the shell more consistently. And like, that's
why I'm gonna pick the Cavs in the series, just
because I think, you know, as much respect as I
have for Indy, and I hope that's coming through Like
I'm not this is in lip service. I think they're
an awesome team. I think they're actually better than their
record and better than their point differential at their best.
I think Carlisle's the top three or four coach in
the league. I just I just I really respect this team.
(35:17):
But you just look at how many ways the Calves
have to poke at you. You know, they're going to
play two of Darius and Darius Donovan and tie for
forty eight minutes. It's a ridiculous amount of perimeter creation.
And then Evan has gotten so much better as a
mismatch masher, a better shooter off the dribble, a better
(35:38):
ability to drive against you know, fellow bigs and get
them on his back hip as opposed to you know
them just kind of sliding their feet with them. I
just think they have more ways to make Indy send
that second guy in the ball and you know, Indy,
it's you know it's going to be. I think the
Calves are going to live with what Indy does and
(35:59):
switch and of just try to keep them in front
of them until they absolutely can't. And I just think
the Calves have more ways to.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Do that right now. Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
When I look at the way that playoff series inevitably
kind of trend as you start to figure out ways
to shut down pet actions, you know, whether it's like,
let's say the Calves figure out like, oh, like we
can switch the turner Haliburton pick and roll boom, Like
that's an advantage that we have there, Like oh, we
on Siakam post ups. As long as we play the
(36:31):
hide high side and force him towards the baseline and
we double from the baseline, we can rotate out of
it relatively quickly. It does tend to degenerate into matchup
attacking basketball inevitably. And at that point, who do I
think is the better team at hitting tough playoff shots?
(36:52):
And I have Donovan Mitchell, I have Max Strus and
DeAndre Hunter who can hit tough, contested catch and shoot
jump shots. There's a level of off the dribble shot
making with Ty Jerome. We didn't get to talk too
much about Garland today. Actually, I think we both agree
that we're picking I'm picking the Caves and six? Are
you picking the Cabs and six?
Speaker 4 (37:11):
I'm gonna go in five? But I think, oh, okay,
I think it could go seven very comfortably. I mean,
I'm not sure Indy can win the series. Uh that
is like probably the bridge I'm not willing to cross,
and well, can you know, if things go really really,
if everything goes perfect Brandy everything was bad for the Cabs,
I think, and he can win the series. But like
I think the range of outcomes, like if I were
(37:33):
setting betting odds for like Calves and five cabs and
six cabs and seven Indian seven, Like they'd all be
like closer.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Than you'd think from adds perspective.
Speaker 4 (37:44):
So I think is not as slight as much as
I just think it's easier to close out of series
at home than on the road.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
The the there's I was just really the the backup
guard dynamic two between ty Drome and t J McConnell's
another kind of interesting similarity between the two teams that
all so manifests in a different way because TJ is
just this TJ McConnell blows me away with his ability
to beat people off the dribble. It's amazing, Like he.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
Just hosts people off the dribble all day.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Look but tied to But Tie does it a little
bit more methodically and does it a lot with like
body position and leverage and it. But Ti Jerme, I
think is a substantially better over the top shot maker.
But are you worried at all about the Darius Garland
toe injury? What are you hearing on that front? Like,
how are you feeling about that particular situation. I'm about
two minutes.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
Yeah, I'm no reporter, so you know, I only have
what's available in front of me. You know, publicly, I'm
going to be worried about it until I see him
play and be good because that toe it. You know,
as you know you were a hooper, Like toes are important.
They're how you balance their how you push start and stop.
And like Darius is a start and stop player, he
is not a straight line. Let me just get ahead
(38:49):
of steam and I'll be good type of player.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
You know.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
I think with the back last year seizing up literally
every every three minutes of game action, you could really
see how much the inability to stop and start made
his game flat and lose its flavor, you know. And
you know the toe isn't as important as a back,
but it's pretty darn important.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Uh and uh.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
And you know he's gonna have ten full days off
between games. You know, you can't ask for much better
than that at this point of the year. So I
think I think we'll know how serious the toe injury
is when we see if he plays or not. If
he's out in a game one, then I'm gonna be
like pretty nervous. That's seriously concern. However, I still think
the Calves can and should win the series even if
(39:36):
he only plays in half the games.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Yeah, the starts off quickness pieces everything, Like I've I've
dealt with like different types of toe injuries over the years,
And the big thing is when you're when you're going
full speed and you need to stop, your foot literally
rams into the front of your shoe and it's just super,
super uncomfortable. But we'll be keeping an eye on that.
I'm picking the Calves and six. If I just really
quickly for Pacers fans, if I was making the case
(40:00):
for how you'd win the series, this is how it
would look. A big part of the Calves attack is
forcing turnovers and getting out in transition. Tyre's Haliburton doesn't
turn the ball over. Tyres is really good at punishing
help and recover types of sequences. He's a relentless advantage attacker,
meaning like he just finds where the help is at
any point in time and is going to make the
(40:21):
requisite kickout passes. The Pacers have a rhythm piece to
their game on offense that can catch a lot of
momentum and get really hot for extended stretches, and they
do have the ball pressure piece to where they could
potentially play the Calves into bad stretches, and so I
do think even with the Calves winning the series, there
will be stretches of this series where the Pacers go
(40:41):
on extended runs or win games. I think that they
have advantages in that regard. So if they can just
somehow maintain that momentum over the course of the series,
there's absolutely a version of this where they can win,
especially if Tyre's Haliburton is playing at the level that
he was playing. That said, I think the Calves are
a substantially better defensive team on the front line, and
(41:02):
I think they are a more versatile defensive team on
the front line, which gives them a lot of flexibility
with adjustments over the course of the series. And then
that over the top shot making piece is just such
a ceiling razor when you get into some of these
slow down clutch situations at the end of games, Carter,
I know you need to go. Why don't you just
quick tell everybody where your work is so that we
can send them that way and then we'll get you
(41:22):
out of here.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
All right.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
Yeah, you can follow a Chase Down pod on any
social media platforms.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
If you are if you are.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
If you are a video pod guy, go Calves YouTube
channels where we're hosted. Can I end this pod with
a question for you? Though, I can hijack real quick
and let it and then it on this. If the
Calves sweep this series, if they just or like win,
you know, in a dominant fashion, maybe it's not sweet,
but it's a Calves and five and four and three
of the four wins. It's just like a oh, the
(41:53):
Calves are winning this game kind of thing. Will that
meaningfully change how you feel about a Boston series in
the next round.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Dude, I'm so close to picking Cleveland it's not even funny.
There's the big thing is is that I think Jason
Tatum is playing at an insanely high level, and then
he's substantially better than he was last year in the postseason.
I think the rest of the team is not. I
think the rest of the team is I think the
rest of the team is more banged up. I think
they have several shooters that are really shaky right now
(42:22):
in their confidence and clean catch and shoot situations. I
think that there is a version of that series where
Tatum just becomes too much to handle. Of course, and
I definitely am waiting to see how the second round
plays out. But if the Calves just beat the shit
out of the Pacers and their offense still looks completely unguardable,
the vision I can't get out of my head is
(42:42):
the way that the Calves just chewed up and spit
out the Celtics and the Blender ever since they dropped
down twenty in the first quarter of that game in Boston,
where like there is like a relentless PCE and the
Blender so to speak, that really can cause the Celtics
defense some problems. And so I think this Cavs team
is reaching a special level on offense and I'm very,
(43:03):
very close, but I will wait to see what happens
in the second round series.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
One last thing st out of the season for me
that never gets discussed. It was a justin find What
do you think the net rating was for the Boston
Celtics starters in the regular season three hundred and fifty
seven minutes.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
So this is Porzingis at center, Horford off.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
Yeah, Porzengis, Drew Brown, Tatum White. I would assume plus
ten or so your row point zero in over three
hundred minutes, dead even on the season. Wow, wows under
it was actually.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Negative for most of the season.
Speaker 4 (43:39):
They had a late run that pushed them to a
net neutral Wow it under just wow, justin pulled it.
I couldn't believe it wasn't like a big like five
alarm fire.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
Dude.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Celtics fans are getting sick of Porzingis. I don't know
if you've seen. I've noticed they think he no showed
the first round. So that's a that's a whole thing
as well. But Ay, we really appreciate you making the time.
I know you're close because I just had a couple
of good ones to throw at you know you're fine,
Carter I, sincerely, I appreciate you taking the time to
join us today. Again, everybody, go follow and support the
(44:13):
Chase Down podcast will be covering every game in the
second round series here at OOPS tonight, as always been.
Sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show.
We will see you later tonight live after Lakers Wolves.
Speaker 3 (44:24):
What's up? Guys?
Speaker 2 (44:25):
As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
OOPS tonight. They would actually be really helpful for us
if you guys would take a second and leave a
rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys
supporting us, but if you could take a minute to
do that.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (44:40):
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All right, welcome to tonight. You're at the volume heavy Wednesday.
Everybody hope loth you guys are having a great week.
Today we are going to do a deep dive series
preview on a series that is going to be between
two very interesting and somewhat similar teams in the Indiana
Pacers and the Cleveland Cavaliers. I could think of nobody
better than our favorite person who covers the calves in
(02:54):
the league, mister Carter Rodriguez. You guys might recognize him.
He's been on the show a few times before. Very
busy man this time year, as are all of us,
and he was kind enough to donate some of his
time to help us get a little bit more familiar
with this matchup. Carter, First of all, how you doing man?
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Doing good? I love coming on here. I think you
do such a good job covering I know our our listeners.
You know there are national guys who get on on
the list so to speak, that people that they get
grumpy with you are luckily in the good graces of
many of our of our of our listeners for your
coverage of the team. So I've always appreciated your perspective
(03:31):
on hoops.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Glad to be on.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I really appreciate that. I'm glad to hear that we're
having some support over at the Chase Down. You guys
have done amazing work over the years. It's been fun
to watch your guys' pod grow. So just kind of
big picture, I've been talking about this on my show,
like I think that there are some similarities between the
Pacers and the Calves in a league that we have
so many different types of styles. You've watched these like
(03:54):
slow down, methodical, big and strong teams. You see these
like matchup attacking, high pick and role heliocentric style teams.
You've got these very driven, kick oriented, spacing oriented teams
like Boston, and then we've got these like speed equal
opportunity type of teams. And what I found fascinating is
(04:15):
you have some similarities in the way that both of
these teams like to pressure the ball and they like
to try to force turnovers. And get out in transition.
Both of these teams can struggle a little bit with
defensive rebounding because they have some perimeter size shortcomings or
interior strength kind of shortcomings. From time to time. Both
teams are very much like everyone's free. Like, you're going
(04:36):
to see Max Struce look to put the ball on
the floor and make plays or take aggressive catch and
shoot shots. You're going to see you know, Aaron Nesmith,
you know, rip through a close out and pull back
dribble and take a tough off the dribble jump shot
in the mid range. You're going to see everybody on
both teams look to be aggressive. It's very equal opportunity.
A lot of games where you look at the box
score and there's six dudes in double figures for both
(04:59):
of these teams. So I think that there is a
lot of similarities between these two teams. Has this been
something that you've noticed throughout this season? If you what
has been like your like fan perspective as a team
in the Eastern Conference with legitimate championship aspirations watching the
Pacers from Afar, Well, I just.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Think they're I think they're a really really good team.
I think I'm probably higher on this Pacers team than
most of my peers in the Cavs community. I just
I was in on them to start the year. My my,
my beloved co host, Justin Rohan was much much lower
on them.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
They finally won him over.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
You know, I just think I think they I think
much like this Cavs offense, especially this year, there's kind
of been you know, the offenses can be so electric
and so exciting that sometimes it belies some of the
ability on the other end of the floor for both
of these teams, you know, the ability to pressure the ball,
(05:57):
the ability to play big. You know, this is another
two big team.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
You know, I got to feel really good about my
my Cavaliers being trendsetters with all these two big land
ups popping up all over the all over the league.
But like, you know, I just think they can play
a lot of defensive styles. You know, they despite having
you know, a perceived week we clink at the top
(06:22):
of the chain and you know, Darius and and tyresee defensively.
You know, I do think there are real differences. You know,
I think in terms of perimeter shot creation, Indy is
just not you know, they don't got a Donovan Mitchell,
you know, like Haliburton can go through stretches of that,
but I don't think that's like his favorite way to play.
(06:45):
And like I think like they lean a little more
egalitarian than the Calves in that sense, like you know,
when Robert meets the Road, it's gonna be a lot
of Donovan Mitchell for the Calves. And similarly on the
other side of the floor, I don't think the Calves
have a blender in the post like Pascal Siakam. So
you know, I do think like there are similarities in
(07:08):
the build, especially like in how these teams have kind
of come up small market, mostly homegrown, mostly you know,
organically built or you know, really smartly built piece by
piece as opposed to like one cataclysmic sea change type
of you know, a headline grabbing move. But I do
think there are different in ways that either team I
(07:32):
think is actually gonna have a hard time matching each other.
Like I I the joke I've kind of keep making
after two, you know, relative laugh for a series in
the first round that that ridiculous comeback last night nonwithstanding,
is that is that I kind of feel like both
teams are going to be shell shocked in the first quarter.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
On offense, We're.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Like, wait, you you can do something to make our
our offense harder, because just neither team really had any resistance.
I mean, Andy was assisting on like seventy six percent
of their field goals at one point. It was like
just an outrageous like twelve fourteen percent higher than number two.
In the playoffs, the Calves obviously posted the best offensive
(08:13):
series in the history of the sport by offensive rating
against Miami. I do think both these teams are like, oh, wait, okay,
this is actually what playoff hoops was supposed to be.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yeah, you know, there are these obvious differences. I'm glad
you pointed out the Mitchell Siakam piece because there is
like a certain amount of Tyrese Haliburton through his high
level playmaking and Darius Garland through his just relentless dribble
penetration will start the engine, so to speak, for both
of these teams in the half court. But the Pacers
(08:45):
have like this low post matchup attacking option that they
can go to, and you also see like a two
man game element with him in Tyrese Haliburton, and then
with the Calves you have this as we've seen, particularly
in the two Celtics wins that they had this year,
Like in Crunch Time, they have a guy that can
pick on a matchup and just create his own shot
over and over and over again from the perimeter, which
(09:07):
Tires can do. But it's as you mentioned, it's a
lot more of like he likes to dribble, drive against
switches and either kick to shooters or try to finish
around the rim. It's not necessarily a mix it up,
high level, over the top shot making type of approach.
I love the part that you said earlier, just talking
about how both of these teams are gonna kind of
(09:29):
have like a certain amount of success against each other.
Like there's certainly a challenge in the sense that Cleveland
and Indiana present more resistance defensively than each other. But
I do think both of these teams will score on
each other. I think that there's a rhythm element to where,
like I think we will see points in this series
where it's like, WHOA, the Pacers are in a really
(09:49):
good groove right now, or oh, the Calves are in
a really good groove right now, manifest in different ways,
Like the Calves are very much a higher volume three
point shooting team that has multiple dudes on the floor
that will take contested threes off the catch.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
When they're there.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Max Strews and DeAndre Hunter's tested three point shooting in
the Heat series was like eye popping, like it was amazing.
Whereas the Pacers don't have as many guys who will
shoot off the catch when they're being chased off the line.
It's much more of like a close out attacking. They'll
take a little bit more in the mid range off
the ball. The Calves will take mid range and pick
and roll from their main guys. But you'll see, like
(10:29):
you know, guys driving closeouts and taken in the mid range.
So it'll manifest in different ways. But I do think
both teams will be able to score on each other.
You look like you were about to say something. Did
you want to jump in Yeah, I'm just gonna say yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
I think, you know, I think on both sides of
the ball, it's just going to be a lot. I
think it's it's going to be harder work for these
defenses too. Again, these seems are just better than who
they played in the first round, So, like I know,
it's like not a crazy it's a relatively obvious statement
if you pull the camera back enough. But like, you know,
I think for the Cavs, you know, one thing that
(10:58):
I'm really keeping an eye on guarding the Pacers is
Siakham because this is a team that under Kenny Atkinson switched.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Way, way, way way more than they did under JB. Bickerstaff.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
And you can do that against the Miami Heat, even
against like a Bam out of Bayo, who's obviously grown
a lot as an offensive player, but like still to
this day, we'll like have a favorable matchup and won't
demand the ball, you know, we'll kind of fill the
dunker spot and kind of wait for a duck in
as opposed to like you put Sam Merrill on a
switch on Pascal Siakam. Siakam is going to find his
(11:33):
way to the ball, He's going to get kind of
the spin cycle going, he's going to draw fouls, he's
going to make you send help, and then you get
into rotation. I mean, Miami just could not break the
Calves defensive shell. That was all four games. It was
just you know, very I mean, on very very few
occasions did the Calves even have to be disciplined in
their rotations because.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
They were not in rotation.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
You know, I think I think Indy is going to
be much better, uh situated to do that, primarily with Pascal,
uh you know. And then it takes me to a
thing that the Cabs didn't break out too much against
the Heat, but they broke out a ton of the
regular season, which is how often are they going to
go zone? Because if there's one thing that makes post
(12:19):
catches difficult and Matt mismatch hunting difficult, it's a it's
a good old two three zone. In one of the
games the Cavs beat the Pacers earlier in the year
that see I come cook them in the entire first half.
He only had like three attempts in the second half
because they just zoned him up and said, hey, we're
not going to just let you catch it on the
block and bump bump, spin shoot. So like that schematic
(12:44):
question is going to be really interesting to me, is
are they going to go zone to try to block
off the Pascal post up, you know, blender because he
even kicking good shots on Mobile and Alan, you know,
like he's he's job, he's a great player. He's done
a nice job even against our best defenders. And if
you go zone, does that open up a three point machine?
(13:07):
You know, as you mentioned, they're not the best contested
three point shooters, but like it's a pretty good open
three point generating machine. And zone you are dancing with
that a little bit.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
The Pacers will burn you with wide open three point
shooting there with that core five man lineup, there's not
really a guy in that group that if you left open,
is just going to consistently miss. And like the big
one is Nie Smith. Like Nie Smith working up into
the mid forties just makes him an entirely different type
of player than he was in the past. And the
you know, the piece with Siakam like on the film.
(13:40):
And actually, let me just i we'll start with the
Pacers on offense here in a minute. Let me quickly
go through our series metrics, just so that everyone knows
this is basically what happened during the regular season. There
were guys in and out of the lineup NonStop. Jared
Allen played in all four games, but no one else did.
Andrew Nemhard and Miles Turner were the only starters to
play in all four for Indie Tyres. Haliburton only played
in two games. The only game where most of the
(14:01):
starters played against each other was their first matchup back
on January twelfth. It's a very weird game. The Calves
controlled the game for about two and a half quarters
and then the indie bench group just beat the shit
out of the Calves. And it was kind of a
weird game because Ty Jerome was out, so it was
like back in the Karis Lavert days, and you know,
Karris Lavert not as just not as gifted as a
(14:22):
backup guard. The Calves completely lost control during that stretch.
The Pacers brought a bunch of full court pressure too,
and the Calves kind of just fell apart in that stretch.
It kind of felt a lot like regular season basketball,
like it was just it was one of those games.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
Well, I'll say, dude, that is that remains the one
thing I kind of keep looking at the Calves for
in terms of, like, you know, a thing that they
just have consistently demonstrated they don't love dealing with is
ball pressure. You know, big physical, you know, like everyone
thinks it's long wings, It's not long wings. It is
(14:56):
dudes who get into your chest and make a Arius
and Donovan back up like they love a drop coverage, dude,
Like they love They love, you know, being able to
survey and use their in and out dribbles and operate
in the tight spaces that the drop affords them.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
They love that.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
They do not like it when they're backing up, especially
Darius because you know his size and athletic limitations. You know,
it's hard for him if he's not turning the corner consistently.
So I thought they passed a really nice test in
the first round Davion. They they tried that with Davion, Mitchell,
Pelo Larson, guys who tried to beat them up a
(15:37):
little bit more like that was clearly something Spoe went
to from like Game two onward didn't matter.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
So like like easy.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Mode test passed gets a little bit harder when it's
Niee Smith and nim Hard and McConnell, uh, you know,
being nasty and physical with them.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
You know.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
So that's one thing I'm really keeping an eye on
is the paces are going to probably pick up full court,
would be my guess for big stretches of this series.
I think they're going to try to hide Haliburton on Strus,
on Hunter on anyone who's playing the three, and it's
going to be a matter of is the pressure going
(16:16):
to stop the Cavs offense from flowing? Didn't work for
didn't work for Miami, But like the personnel is just
better bam out of bio accepted in Indy.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
So yeah, that January twelve game was a great example
of what you're talking about. They were also playing up
in passing lanes off of the ball pressure too, so
like as Garland and Mitchell would try to move the
ball up the floor, there was some turnovers in those
sorts of situations.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Go ahead, But I do think this is interesting, Like
that's where like the physical limitations of a Darius or
Adonoman come in, because like if you're backpedaling, it's hard
to put pace on those passes. Oh no, like it's
really really hard to. You know, Like Darius, if he's
going to make a cross court pass, he's not Luke
or Lebron, like he's got to step into it. So
(17:03):
if all his momentum is going that way and he's
trying to get at the opposite direction, that's where you
get kind of those ducks that Indy can go pick
off playing the passing lanes as aggressively as they were.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
We saw Jarris Walker have some success to on the
Calves guards with just some pressure and back pressure and
poking away at the basketball. There was definitely some interesting
stuff in that game. But then at the same time,
we had another game later in the season where the
Pacers played all their guys and the Calves sent a
skeleton crew down to Indy and they almost beat them anyway,
(17:37):
And a big part of that is ty Jerome is
just incredible. And when we get to Calves on offense,
I want to focus on that for a minute, because
there's like a level that the Calves are at right
now that is even higher than they were at any
point during the regular season. We did get a look
at some of the ways they were defending Tyre's Halliburton,
mainly just that Jared Allen wasn't coming too aggressively up
to the level they were a little bit more willing
(17:57):
to concede pull up threes to Halliburton. Haliburton's in a
really good groove right now, which is going to be
the first thing that we'll get to. But metrics just
for everybody. The Pacers ended up going three and one
in the season series, but they had a negative net rating.
They had a one ozh six offensive rating, the Calves
at a one oh nine offensive rating, So the Calves
actually outscored him by three point three points per one
hundred possessions in the four matchups. The Pacers did win
(18:19):
the rebounding battle by small margin, grabbing fifty one point
three percent of available rebounds, but once again, not really
anything worth digging too far into there. I found that
to be the case in almost all of my series previews.
You're really just looking at like individual matchups, what it
looks like. Oh, here's a few possessions of Siakam and
Mobilely going at each other.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
This is what it.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Looks like like that kind of stuff. But let's start
with the Pacers on offense. And so I want to
start with the idea of the Halliburton pick and roll,
so it it will manifest in a bunch of different ways,
a lot of him two man game with Siakam, where
teams will often look to switch and attack in the post,
like we talked about earlier. But I want to start
with the Tyres Halliburton, Miles Turner pick and pop, which
(18:59):
is the foundation concept of what makes the Pacers offense work.
So how do you think the Calves will go about
trying to contain the tyres Haliburton pick and roll.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
I think this is going to be you know, I've
spent a lot of time of this appearance so far
talking about the things I think Andy is really good at,
because I do think it's going to be swept under
the rug. I think talking about a rude awakening going
from a you know, sometimes Dame Lillard Brook Lopez pick
and roll or an aj Green Brook Lopez pick and
(19:29):
roll defensive pair, to like it's going to be Max Druce,
it's gonna be Isaac Okoro, it's going to be DeAndre
Hunter uh and Evan Mogle or Jared Allen, and those
guys are going to close out so much better. They're
going to be much They're going to feel much safer
switching the Miles Turner action. Like I I'm not sure,
(19:49):
but if you were, if you had asked me what
I thought, you know, Kenny's staff would say about uh
death by Miles Turner switch post ups. I think they're
pretty cool with that, you know. I just think like
that is not going to be a problem for them,
especially with how not strong Indie is on the offensive boards.
They were twenty ninth in the regular season. Like, if
(20:09):
you're getting a men shot attempt from you know, a
contested you know, twelve foot turnaround for Miles Turner, which
is kind of his preferred type of post up anyway, Like,
I think you're fine with that. I think even if
you do play it straight and you hedge and recover,
you know, the way Evan and Jarrett can close ground
is just so much better than Bobby Portis or Brook Lopez. Like,
(20:33):
I think that action is like not going to be
there for them as much as they wanted to be.
And like I think, and frankly, if you're the Pacers, you're,
in my opinion, you're kind of doing the Calves a
favor by not having Siakam in that screen almost every
time now, like and just kind of depending on Turner
(20:55):
as more of a spacer. That's kind of what I
would do if I were Indy, just because I just
think the Calves are really well equipped because they're not
going to have Darius on Tyres, They're not going to
have Donovan on Tyres. They're going to put their big, strong,
long wings on him. And like, I don't think Max
can hold up against Siakam, but he can hold his
(21:15):
ground a little bit in the switch and but against Turner,
like you kind of just got to be okay with
that and trust that your help is going to be good.
And I think the Calves help was so good in
Miami series. Like I know Miami played a very very
bad series, don't get me wrong, but like the timing
was so dialed in from them that I think you
can give up a short term disadvantage knowing that you're
(21:37):
burning clock, you're eating more like if the Calves are
making the pacers work into the bottom ten seconds of
the shot clock, the possessions kind of already a win.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
I think that the early the early portion of the
series will see less switching. I would especially early in games.
One of the things I noticed on film is Jared
Allen was very keyed on the pop. And what I
mean by that is like in instead of coming up
to the level where he's fully committing to basically being
two on the ball and conceding the pick and pop,
he's kind of making a judgment call based on how
(22:08):
the on ball defenders doing so if the on ball
defender is like fully compromised, then he'll jump over there
and help. But if he sees that the on ball
defenders in the position to flatten out the drive, he'll
kind of be more keyed up towards Miles Turner. To
your point, though, I think that action inevitably trends towards
switching and Jared Allen having to hold up on an
island against Tyreus Haliburton. Now, one of the things with
(22:31):
Tyres that made him kind of go through the spiral
that he went through over the previous year between the
start of last year to where he is now, was
he with the hamstring just didn't quite look very explosive
attacking switches on the perimeter. As we saw last night
against Giannis. There is a pretty important moment one, yeah, exactly,
(22:53):
and it was an example of what the tug of
war will look like.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
I think.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
I think a substantial part of the tug of war
will be can Tyrese Haliburton get dribble penetration against the
Cavs bigs in you know, ISO situations. But one of
the things that's interesting about India is like they do
not marry themselves to Tyrese Haliburton shot creation If it's
not what the game calls for. And so one of
the things that I think we could end up seeing,
to your point, is like a lot more of Siakam
(23:20):
action trying to get switches for Siakam to look to attack.
And then I would not be surprised. I would assume
that we're gonna end up seeing Donovan Mitchell guard Nemhard
and Garland end up guarding Nie Smith, because that would
be my Nie Smith is a little bit less of
a threat as a movement shooter, although Nie Smith has
(23:43):
a little bit more of a bag than I think
people give him credit for. But I think they'll be
more comfortable hedging and recovering with Garland out of Nie
Smith action than they would out of Nemhart action. But
don't be surprised if we end up seeing a little
bit more of Nemhart on the ball in this series
in the event that they view like they have a
better opportunity to get him going. He's a good drop
coverage player. He like last night, the first shot that
(24:06):
got everything going for them, and that's you know run
late in the game was him just coming off of
ball screen and pulling up a three from you know
thirty feet at the top of the key. Nem Hard
can play or a Nie Smith can Yeah, Nemhrd can play.
I get them all confused anyway. The ultimately, though, what
I see what I see happening is the Pacers, whether
it's through the Siakam post up double teams, which we
(24:27):
did see plenty of that in the regular season, where
the Calves tried to double Siakam out of the post,
or if it's Haliburton beating someone off the dribble, or
if it's Nie Smith bringing in or Nemhard bringing in
low manhelp. I do think rotation basketball would be much
more of a factor for the Calves in this series
than it was against the Heat. They will have to
fly around, they will have to make plays in rotation,
(24:47):
but that push and pull, it's all about how much
you get compromised that If Jared Allen can hold up
pretty well on switches, if the Calves guards can hold
up pretty well on switches against Theakam so they don't
have to as dramatically overhelp in those sorts of situations,
those are gonna be the kinds of things that have
a large impact on the quality of looks that the
(25:09):
Calves get that said, like, there is a flat out
like shot making piece to what the Calves do, which
is absolutely insane. And like, guys, they had a one
thirty six offensive rating in the first round. They had
a one eighteen half court offensive rating in the first round.
There half court offensive rating was better than what the
Boston Celtics posted overall in the offensive rating area in
(25:31):
the first round against a Heat last year. Yes, very
different team, but with Davion Mitchell and Andrew Wiggins out there,
it's a different type. There's some defenders out there that
they were just consistently compromising. It's shot making Ti Jerome
and Donovan Mitchell's off the dribble shot making in that
first round was absurd, Max Strus and DeAndre Hunter and
there over the top shot making in catch and shoot
(25:51):
situations was absurd. And so I think a big part
of it is going to be, like, if the Calves
shot making is there, there's not going to really be
much at the Pacers do to stop them. So let's
move to the Caves on offense. When we were talking
about specific specific actions that you think the Calves will
be leaning on as pet actions in the half court,
(26:12):
what are you looking at for the Calves in the
second round series.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Well, they were a lot more aggressive in picking at
weak points than I thought they were going to be
in that heat series. Like they've been a pretty like
we just run our offense the way we run it,
and we'll just keep attacking till you mess up. And
that was kind of their philosophy most of the regular season,
(26:36):
and like that still helped true, don't get me wrong,
Like the machine didn't stop worrying. But they were really mean,
Like they were really mean to Tyler Hero. They and
once they decided to stop being mean to Tyler Hero,
they got really mean to kill el Ware and started
really abusing him in space with with empty side pick
(26:57):
and rolls.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Jared Allen has kicked his ass man such a like.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Like I keep joking because like Jared's such a sweet
soul that I think people like don't don't think about
it this way, and like in general, like you know,
I think we can kind of flatten out that archetype
of like I'm a I'm an athletic vertical rim protecting,
finishing big that's my thing, you know, And I think
sometimes we really flatten out that archetype and kind of
(27:23):
assume everyone's about as good as each other, you know,
because like they're all doing the same basic job, but
like you don't really see how different that job can
be in terms of how effective you can be doing
it until you watch like Jared just abuse Kloware, like
with how he's spacing his pick and roll dives and
all that fun stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
I want to cut you off for a second here,
because this is something that that I feel victim too too.
That what you're making, what the point you're trying to make,
is very important, which is like people just like tie
Jared Allen into the same tier as like Nick Claxton
or like every other Robert Williams, Like, yeah, they're all
just like the same. It's like this And by the way,
(28:03):
I am admitting guilt here, I personally underrated Jared Allen
coming into this stretch. I viewed him as just another
one of these dudes who can defend and drop, do
a little bit of switching and can be a vertical
spacer as he's on the role. And it's like, it's
so much more complicated than that. I watched Jared Allen
kick the shit out of some really good players this
year and had to head matchups, and it's the relentless
(28:27):
rim running that was the big thing that he kept
getting behind kellel Ware Like he just kept getting behind him,
and that was really the problem was kelll just like
kept getting into position where he was in a drop,
but he still wasn't able to account for the role man,
which is like, it's the whole purpose of the job
is don't let the roller behind you the worst of
both worlds exactly, and so like he'll do that. Jared
(28:50):
Allen is like the type of release valve that you
get from an Isaiah Hartenstein as a short range shot
maker in terms of the types of little floaters and
pushots that he can make. He is an ass kicker
on the glass. And then the big thing is is
on defense. He has become such a gifted switch defender
that it unlocks so many different things for them defensively.
And like I had to have my own little personal
(29:11):
wake up call with Jared Allen this year where I'm like,
this guy is not a league average replacement starting level center.
He's in that upper tier of centers in this league.
Maybe not in the same level as the guys at
the top, but he's in that next tier below them,
and that really is a talent piece that I think
just gets consistently overrated with the Cavs. But anyway, you
go back to what your YEA, Well, it's.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
Because it's not a bag related an understanding of where
you are in space, and it's a coordination when you
catch the ball, you know, you know, being able to
take a pocket pass at your knees and not break
your stride on the on your dive to the rim.
Like it's all these little like game within a game
type of types of things for him, And like that
(29:52):
is where I think on offense, I think the Cavs
this is going.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
To be a great series for the Cavs bigs.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
You know, I think Siakam's taking a couple of steps
back as a defender as he's gotten a little bit older.
You know, he went you know, he started his career
as the defender, you know, chaos agent. I think he's
just a little not bad by any means, but a
little worse. And like I just think Turner is going
from a series where it's kind of tailor made for him,
where he's just way his footspeed is just way better
(30:17):
than Brooke and he's way more physical and just straight
up better than Bobby Portis, who's a player. I don't love,
to be honest, I just don't think crazy highly of
even though you know, I know he's been helpful for
them and in big moments too, Like now he's going
to have to not only protect the rim against you know,
(30:39):
the relentless rim pressure of the Tiger Romes, the Dariuses
and the Donovans of the world, but also not let
them get behind him, to your point of, like you know,
so like I wonder if they're going to try to
hedge in show and try to do that because like switching,
I don't know if I don't know if switching is
the best idea for them.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Don't think Turner is gonna be able to switch. I
think that that's the interesting part. Like I think the
Pacers actually have a little bit more playmaking talent in
my opinion in terms of like overall passing talent. But
I think that the calves are going to be able
to compromise the Pacers more at the point of attack
because of that big issue, which is like to your point,
like it's just an entirely different animal in the front
(31:21):
court that he's dealing with in this case, it's just
going from you know, Kyle Kuzma to to Evan Mobley
is just an entirely different animal.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
You know. Yeah, I just think I just think, like ideally,
you know, I mean, I just think nim Hard Nie
Smith's job is gonna it's one just gonna be really
important in this series. I feel like they're probably like
who I'm most keyed in on in terms of Indie's
ability to keep this close. Like if they're fighting over
these if they're fighting through these screens and staying connected
(31:53):
to the back of the hip of Darius and Donovan
and Tie, that is so much different than it if
they're getting wiped out. I just think the Caps are
going to get a wide open look.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
That's the series right there.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
What you're talking about is the series because stay Van
Gundhi did a really nice job of breaking this down
when he was discussing the uh uh oh No, I
think it was actually zach Low. I think it was Zachlo.
I think I was listening to Zachlo the other day.
Did a beautiful job of explaining like why the Drew
holiday trade was so damaging to the Bucks, and it
was because in order to run the types of coverages
that involve traditional bigs, meaning like not switching, but at
(32:27):
the level coverages or drop coverages, things along those lines.
You have to stay attached to the ball handler. You
have to as soon as that piece falls off, your
defense is going to get cut to pieces. Turner will
get destroyed in space. So to your point, the dynamic
of the ball pressure of Kniesmith and Nemhard, how would
you if you were coaching the pacers, how would you
match up those two?
Speaker 4 (32:47):
On Garland and Mitchell, I'm doing I'm going nim Hard
on Darius because I think he is the slightly nastier,
pushy er grab ear of the defenders, at least from
what I watched. I won't pretend to be like, oh,
hard core pacers expert year, but like I think, I
think the nastier, uh more physical guy on Darius is
(33:08):
probably the way i'd go. And Nie Smith just like,
just do your job, stay and stay connected, do your best, fight,
be tough and physical. But like you know, I think
Donovan also just gets the line a little better than
Darius does, you know, So like the pushy grabby stuff,
Donovan's got a little bit better at the at the
grift game, uh than than Darius, But I mean it's
(33:29):
gonna be I just think those guys are gonna really
gonna swing the series on both ends. Like because like
to your point, on the other side, I know we're
talking Cavs offense, nim Hart is gonna have to go
beat up Donovan or Darius.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
One of those guys gonna have to do damage. That's
that's an that's an important part of this too. The
there there was some nem Hart spent some time on
Mitchell in the regular season, and Mitchell was able to
get separation against him easily. But this we've seen all
the way back since the Brunson series last year. Like
there's no doubt that uh uh that Nie Smith is
a little bit vulnerable to over the top shot making
(34:03):
because he's a little bit shorter or Nemhard, I should say,
Nie Smith is a bigger, better athlete, and so I
actually think that makes sense to match him up with
Mitchell in terms of being able to get better contests
on his pull up jump shots. But again, that's gonna
be the The point you're making is important. The ball
pressure matchup on both ends of the floor is going
(34:23):
to be absolutely key, and whether it's on pacers, on offense,
Nemhard being able to consistently compromise a guy like Donovan Mitchell,
or if it's on the other end of the floor
and it's like Mitchell keeps getting don keeps getting penetration
against Nie Smith, or Garland keeps getting penetration against Nemhart.
Those are going to be the starts of all of
(34:43):
this because when the teams get into their flow, neither
team is going to be able to stop each other.
Once they get into their flow, it's gonna be who
can stop the team from getting into the flow as
often and.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
Who can crack the shell more consistently. And like, that's
why I'm gonna pick the Cavs in the series, just
because I think, you know, as much respect as I
have for Indy, and I hope that's coming through Like
I'm not this is in lip service. I think they're
an awesome team. I think they're actually better than their
record and better than their point differential at their best.
I think Carlisle's the top three or four coach in
the league. I just I just I really respect this team.
(35:17):
But you just look at how many ways the Calves
have to poke at you. You know, they're going to
play two of Darius and Darius Donovan and tie for
forty eight minutes. It's a ridiculous amount of perimeter creation.
And then Evan has gotten so much better as a
mismatch masher, a better shooter off the dribble, a better
(35:38):
ability to drive against you know, fellow bigs and get
them on his back hip as opposed to you know
them just kind of sliding their feet with them. I
just think they have more ways to make Indy send
that second guy in the ball and you know, Indy,
it's you know it's going to be. I think the
Calves are going to live with what Indy does and
(35:59):
switch and of just try to keep them in front
of them until they absolutely can't. And I just think
the Calves have more ways to.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Do that right now. Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
When I look at the way that playoff series inevitably
kind of trend as you start to figure out ways
to shut down pet actions, you know, whether it's like,
let's say the Calves figure out like, oh, like we
can switch the turner Haliburton pick and roll boom, Like
that's an advantage that we have there, Like oh, we
on Siakam post ups. As long as we play the
(36:31):
hide high side and force him towards the baseline and
we double from the baseline, we can rotate out of
it relatively quickly. It does tend to degenerate into matchup
attacking basketball inevitably. And at that point, who do I
think is the better team at hitting tough playoff shots?
(36:52):
And I have Donovan Mitchell, I have Max Strus and
DeAndre Hunter who can hit tough, contested catch and shoot
jump shots. There's a level of off the dribble shot
making with Ty Jerome. We didn't get to talk too
much about Garland today. Actually, I think we both agree
that we're picking I'm picking the Caves and six? Are
you picking the Cabs and six?
Speaker 4 (37:11):
I'm gonna go in five? But I think, oh, okay,
I think it could go seven very comfortably. I mean,
I'm not sure Indy can win the series. Uh that
is like probably the bridge I'm not willing to cross,
and well, can you know, if things go really really,
if everything goes perfect Brandy everything was bad for the Cabs,
I think, and he can win the series. But like
I think the range of outcomes, like if I were
(37:33):
setting betting odds for like Calves and five cabs and
six cabs and seven Indian seven, Like they'd all be
like closer.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Than you'd think from adds perspective.
Speaker 4 (37:44):
So I think is not as slight as much as
I just think it's easier to close out of series
at home than on the road.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
The the there's I was just really the the backup
guard dynamic two between ty Drome and t J McConnell's
another kind of interesting similarity between the two teams that
all so manifests in a different way because TJ is
just this TJ McConnell blows me away with his ability
to beat people off the dribble. It's amazing, Like he.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
Just hosts people off the dribble all day.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Look but tied to But Tie does it a little
bit more methodically and does it a lot with like
body position and leverage and it. But Ti Jerme, I
think is a substantially better over the top shot maker.
But are you worried at all about the Darius Garland
toe injury? What are you hearing on that front? Like,
how are you feeling about that particular situation. I'm about
two minutes.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
Yeah, I'm no reporter, so you know, I only have
what's available in front of me. You know, publicly, I'm
going to be worried about it until I see him
play and be good because that toe it. You know,
as you know you were a hooper, Like toes are important.
They're how you balance their how you push start and stop.
And like Darius is a start and stop player, he
is not a straight line. Let me just get ahead
(38:49):
of steam and I'll be good type of player.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
You know.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
I think with the back last year seizing up literally
every every three minutes of game action, you could really
see how much the inability to stop and start made
his game flat and lose its flavor, you know. And
you know the toe isn't as important as a back,
but it's pretty darn important.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Uh and uh.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
And you know he's gonna have ten full days off
between games. You know, you can't ask for much better
than that at this point of the year. So I
think I think we'll know how serious the toe injury
is when we see if he plays or not. If
he's out in a game one, then I'm gonna be
like pretty nervous. That's seriously concern. However, I still think
the Calves can and should win the series even if
(39:36):
he only plays in half the games.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Yeah, the starts off quickness pieces everything, Like I've I've
dealt with like different types of toe injuries over the years,
And the big thing is when you're when you're going
full speed and you need to stop, your foot literally
rams into the front of your shoe and it's just super,
super uncomfortable. But we'll be keeping an eye on that.
I'm picking the Calves and six. If I just really
quickly for Pacers fans, if I was making the case
(40:00):
for how you'd win the series, this is how it
would look. A big part of the Calves attack is
forcing turnovers and getting out in transition. Tyre's Haliburton doesn't
turn the ball over. Tyres is really good at punishing
help and recover types of sequences. He's a relentless advantage attacker,
meaning like he just finds where the help is at
any point in time and is going to make the
(40:21):
requisite kickout passes. The Pacers have a rhythm piece to
their game on offense that can catch a lot of
momentum and get really hot for extended stretches, and they
do have the ball pressure piece to where they could
potentially play the Calves into bad stretches, and so I
do think even with the Calves winning the series, there
will be stretches of this series where the Pacers go
(40:41):
on extended runs or win games. I think that they
have advantages in that regard. So if they can just
somehow maintain that momentum over the course of the series,
there's absolutely a version of this where they can win,
especially if Tyre's Haliburton is playing at the level that
he was playing. That said, I think the Calves are
a substantially better defensive team on the front line, and
(41:02):
I think they are a more versatile defensive team on
the front line, which gives them a lot of flexibility
with adjustments over the course of the series. And then
that over the top shot making piece is just such
a ceiling razor when you get into some of these
slow down clutch situations at the end of games, Carter,
I know you need to go. Why don't you just
quick tell everybody where your work is so that we
can send them that way and then we'll get you
(41:22):
out of here.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
All right.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
Yeah, you can follow a Chase Down pod on any
social media platforms.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
If you are if you are.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
If you are a video pod guy, go Calves YouTube
channels where we're hosted. Can I end this pod with
a question for you? Though, I can hijack real quick
and let it and then it on this. If the
Calves sweep this series, if they just or like win,
you know, in a dominant fashion, maybe it's not sweet,
but it's a Calves and five and four and three
of the four wins. It's just like a oh, the
(41:53):
Calves are winning this game kind of thing. Will that
meaningfully change how you feel about a Boston series in
the next round.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Dude, I'm so close to picking Cleveland it's not even funny.
There's the big thing is is that I think Jason
Tatum is playing at an insanely high level, and then
he's substantially better than he was last year in the postseason.
I think the rest of the team is not. I
think the rest of the team is I think the
rest of the team is more banged up. I think
they have several shooters that are really shaky right now
(42:22):
in their confidence and clean catch and shoot situations. I
think that there is a version of that series where
Tatum just becomes too much to handle. Of course, and
I definitely am waiting to see how the second round
plays out. But if the Calves just beat the shit
out of the Pacers and their offense still looks completely unguardable,
the vision I can't get out of my head is
(42:42):
the way that the Calves just chewed up and spit
out the Celtics and the Blender ever since they dropped
down twenty in the first quarter of that game in Boston,
where like there is like a relentless PCE and the
Blender so to speak, that really can cause the Celtics
defense some problems. And so I think this Cavs team
is reaching a special level on offense and I'm very,
(43:03):
very close, but I will wait to see what happens
in the second round series.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
One last thing st out of the season for me
that never gets discussed. It was a justin find What
do you think the net rating was for the Boston
Celtics starters in the regular season three hundred and fifty
seven minutes.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
So this is Porzingis at center, Horford off.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
Yeah, Porzengis, Drew Brown, Tatum White. I would assume plus
ten or so your row point zero in over three
hundred minutes, dead even on the season. Wow, wows under
it was actually.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Negative for most of the season.
Speaker 4 (43:39):
They had a late run that pushed them to a
net neutral Wow it under just wow, justin pulled it.
I couldn't believe it wasn't like a big like five
alarm fire.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
Dude.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Celtics fans are getting sick of Porzingis. I don't know
if you've seen. I've noticed they think he no showed
the first round. So that's a that's a whole thing
as well. But Ay, we really appreciate you making the time.
I know you're close because I just had a couple
of good ones to throw at you know you're fine,
Carter I, sincerely, I appreciate you taking the time to
join us today. Again, everybody, go follow and support the
(44:13):
Chase Down podcast will be covering every game in the
second round series here at OOPS tonight, as always been.
Sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting us and supporting the show.
We will see you later tonight live after Lakers Wolves.
Speaker 3 (44:24):
What's up? Guys?
Speaker 2 (44:25):
As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
OOPS tonight. They would actually be really helpful for us
if you guys would take a second and leave a
rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys
supporting us, but if you could take a minute to
do that.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (44:40):
The volume
Host
Jason Timpf
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